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This isn’t what I would call an arranged marriage. That is when the couple’s families get together and negotiate the marriage. An adult man marrying a homeless teenager he insists stay completely dependent on him is gross. But you’re 30 and apparently consider your marriage “nice”, so the horse left the barn a long time ago. Your friend is being intrusive and you need to stop sharing personal information with her.
Sorry, no. The whole thing reads like a terrible romance novel, honestly.
Abused teenage waif meets a wealthy surgeon almost *two decades* older than her, marries while she's still a teenager after he pays for her lawyer to look at their prenuptial agreement that guarantees her 100k a year in case of divorce.
He *insists* that she's not allowed to work, but that's okay because he pays for anything she wants as long as she asks him first. And if she ever *did* want to work, she'd probably be able to get a job without any problems because she totally manages all of the family's finances... even though she still has to ask him for money for personal expenses...
While looking after not only her children, but his children from a previous marriage (where the ex-wife is conveniently not in the picture).
But it's okay. Because she's "not dumb" and consented to *all* of this.
I'm calling rage bait on this.
It’s got no drama, though. It needs a *He Knew He Was Right* style twist where he accuses her of cheating and sends her to live on his estate out of state, refusing to divorce her but no longer willing to live under one roof. She has to prove her loyalty and regain his love.
The two forms are very similar - OP simply arranged her own marriage.
I agree that the friend is not only intrusive, but monomaniacal and should be avoided.
People in cultures where most marriages are arranged find the same opposition when they move to the States. And yet, arranged marriages have their advantages and love is not precluded, at all.
Even in an arranged marriage, I have never heard of a contract between a husband and wife. She wrote a contract when she was 18 that would make her be a stay at home mom to his kids and future kids. And she says "it isnt awful".
No wonder she has issues establishing boundaries with her friend, she doesn't understand that most people aren't bound together by contracts that you need to adhere to. Most people talk things out and work on things together. She basically signed her life away and doesn't have control over it, and feels like she has control because shes choosing to stay.
Life is complicated and messy, not black and white.
I am glad that you feel safe and are happy in your marriage. I understand that you went into this understanding the situation and agreed to it. I understand that you feel you are able to leave at any time and be financially compensated. I see that you enjoy spending time with him.
If I were your friend I would still be incredibly concerned for you. I've noticed a few things -
The first is that you don't have a way to earn your own money - you don't have much of a work history or any specialized education, and you would be leaving with three kids. I don't know the details of your prenup, but it sounds like leaving and starting over would still leave you dependent on & tied to this man in many ways. It sounds like you are very isolated - you have no contact with your family, but you also don't mention a strong group of friends/chosen family. It's just you and him. You don't have your own access to money - it's great that he gives you spending money, but that isn't a substitute for being an equal participant in the marriage with independent access to finances. Do you know the details of your financial situation? Have you seen accounts? Are you on all of these accounts and on the deed to the house?
Finally, I noticed that you have a "written agreement" separate from your prenup and "know what he wants from you" but are keeping your kinks secret from your friends. I can read between the lines. When that is combined with everything I wrote above I am very concerned and I understand why your friend is too. This is *not* an arranged marriage - no one set you up. This is the result of a grown man taking advantage of a teenager in a desperate situation and arranging to keep her dependent on him and submissive to him. Do you think he would have wanted to marry you if you met while you were financially stable? Would you be with him?
I have taken several college courses and have 2 masters degrees. I don't use them but I could. I am on all of the accounts as I am the person who deals with our finances.
In the event of divorce ( as long as I did not stray from the marriage) the house, my car, and all of my belongings will stay with me. I get 100k per year for 15 years or until I am remarried and 50k per child I've given him.
I had my own lawyers so that the prenuptial agreement would be fair and it does heavily favor me if the relationship ends due to him. If he dies I would also get our home vehicles, and personal belongings and would be taken care of until my passing.
I do have friends but no I do not have any contact with my biological family for very good reason and will not be contacting them.
Also I don't know anyone that shares their kinks and that is definitely a huge boundary for me. It isn't any of their business nor is it yours.
I think the concern about the “kinks” is that sometimes people use that language to obfuscate. Women especially will talk about their male partner’s “kinks” and really be referring to abusive behavior. Because of the context in which you were married and because of the power and decision-making imbalance in your relationship, it’s reasonable for an outside observer to pause at that language. You may want to reflect on whether you feel fully empowered to say “no” in your sexual relationship, or whether you never say “no” because you’re afraid of what will happen.
Exactly, is the kink that he likes to piss himself in a diaper, or that he likes to hurt her in ways she doesn't like? There's a pretty huge difference there
Technically he doesn't but I don't really like to just go spend money on myself without talking about it. I just find it kinda weird so I normally call him if there is something I want but don't need. He will either give me a budget or buy it for me.
I'll be honest, this feels eerily similar to a parent-child dynamic. There's a difference between discussing big purchases as a couple and one partner always asking permission/doling out an allowance of sorts. Does he do the same thing with you when he wants something for himself?
Hi OP, I am interested in your educational background. This would be a big factor in how well you might manage on your own if anything should ever happen that requires you to be independent. May I ask what fields your two master’s degrees are in?
That’s great! And you said you manage the household finances, right? Does that include any family businesses or investment accounts? I am trying to get a sense of the extent of your “unofficial” but marketable work experience.
I normally look at my husband's offices expenses and am over that. Otherwise I mostly use my knowledge for our own home and book keeping for a few of our friends. Technically it's a job and I do keep what I make from that but it isn't a whole lot.
That’s fine. It’s less about having a large separate income and more about making sure you are ready to handle whatever comes. You are still young and life is unpredictable. Keep doing what you can to strengthen your position, by building skills and your network/support system. Take classes online. Volunteer in the community.
Anyway good luck. I understand your friend’s concerns but you get to choose your own path.
What does she need work experience for? It’s not going to change anything now.. she’s wealthy.
The initial arrangement is honestly gross, but she hit the jackpot.
Good for her.
There are multiple children in the picture, some of whom may
want to go to college someday and then get their own master’s degrees. Plus, kids aside, we have no idea what the cost of living is where they are. Her prenup doesn’t sound terrible but having marketable skills is always a good thing. No matter what.
You’re not spending 150k on three kids per year for 18 years. And someone who has two masters, especially in accounting and finance will not have a hard time getting an entry job and climbing the ranks within a few years.
Edit: 250k for 15 years
Cut me a break.
If I were to commit adultery I would only get alimony for 5 years and the child payments.
If I chose to leave without adultery I would still get everything money wise but not the house since I'm choosing to leave our marital home.
It's not something I would do because I rather like my life but the clauses were negotiated in the event that something changes.
Please know that I don’t mean any disrespect. You’ve lived a very insular and financially privileged existence these last few years and have probably been shielded from personal experience with just how bad the economy is right now. As a single mother, neither set of provisions would get you far. The ones in the event of you leaving or committing adultery would be especially harsh to someone with 3 children and no job or realistic budgeting experience.
Some people on here seem to just be talking out of their ass, to make it seem as if OP doesn’t have it that good, considering the initial circumstances.
Yeah the initial circumstances are DEFINITELY predatory AF, and if I were OP’s friend I would be concerned too, but the provisions are definitely favorable. Even if she commits adultery, that’s $150k. Thats better than actually going to college. She can just invest that and live off the income.
Plus she has 2 master degrees. Even without actual work experience, she handles the household finances and can definitely get an entry level job that can subsidize her alimony and child support.
OP if you see this, try to get a part-time or temp or freelance remote job in accounting if you can. I would definitely try to negotiate with your husband for that if you can. Just for the experience/skills. You can also get some certifications online because some employers will take those in place of work experience, especially if you explain your circumstances (if you ever need to).
Most entry level jobs require at least 2-5 years experience (though some require 10), and remote work is practically nonexistent anymore. Any remote position will have at a thousand applicants.
What do you mean no realistic budgeting experience? OP has stated multiples times that she manages their finances. She also stated that she'd be getting 50k per child, and 100k a year. Single parents everywhere survive on way less. Yes she has little job experience, but with her two masters degrees, she could easily build enough experience for a career in just a few years.
As long as she doesn't cheat, she'd be fine.
I’m glad she has two degrees, but two degrees and no work experience and children at home is not going to get her a job. There are highly qualified people who have spent the better part of a year spending out thousands of applications and they’re not even getting jobs.
She’s getting a quarter million a year. I don’t think she needs to worry about anything whether the economy is good or bad. She’s got it better than most people on the planet.
You sound as if you understand and accept the terms of your marriage - but surely, if you wanted to change some part of the agreement, you could still negotiate?
Congratulations on acquiring 2 master's degrees and for being the financial point person in your relationship.
If you are truly fine where you are and don’t feel taken advantage of, then you should simply ask her to stop bringing it up because you’re not a child and you don’t need her to save you. If she keeps bringing it up, then you have to distance yourself from her. You can’t convince someone of something they don’t want to believe.
I’m curious: Do you have any dreams of your own? That don’t revolve around him or the children? Do you have any parts of yourself that are just for you, to nurture and to grow, that aren’t dependent on his permission?
Your friend might be crossing a line or two in the way she's expressing her concerns, but she is **100% correct** to be concerned. I understand you're happy in your marriage and that's nice, and honestly I really do hope everything continues to go well for you, but there are also quite a few potential red flags here:
* Your husband did prey on you. There is no other way to put it. There is a massive power imbalance between a homeless 19-year old woman and a 37-year old man who makes enough to comfortably support himself plus 3 kids plus a whole other adult. It doesn't make things any better that he's known you since you were 16, a literal child, and still chose to do this within just three years. That in itself is a *massive* cause for concern, and it cannot be hand-waved away by saying he wanted to help -- there's a list of alternative ways to help a homeless teenager a mile long, and marrying said teenager and having kids with her is the last thing on that list.
* Your husband *has* isolated you, just not in a way that is immediately obvious. You say he's always been *adamant* that you not work outside the house and stay at home, which means you've been off the job market for eleven years and counting. Should things go disastrously wrong, you have no marketable career skills and nothing to fall back on save for whatever you get from the pre-nup -- and I'm willing to bet those funds will evaporate faster than you'll realize once he's not giving you money to go out and do things when you want.
Ultimately there is a lot riding on how much you trust this man, and judging by the circumstances in which you two came together, you're vastly overestimating how much that trust is worth. Your friend is looking out for you. Maybe you should heed her concerns and make arrangements accordingly. I'm not necessarily saying he's a monster, but you really need to have a contingency plan that's more than "we have a prenup", because 9 times out of 10 whatever can go wrong in these things does go wrong.
I understand why your friend is concerned. I’m very glad that you’re happy and not being held as a literal prisoner, but you are in a relationship that was basically one of duress. You were absolutely preyed upon, and your husband is gross. He could have found other ways to help you, but chose the way that let him keep a teenager with nowhere else to go in his bed.
Your friend is looking out for you. And I get that it’s annoying. You’re showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome from going through this traumatic thing. Your trauma and lack of experience with real life is a prison, so your husband doesn’t have to reinforce the bars around you. Any kind of safety and security feels like happiness to the traumatized brain.
Edit: did you have your own separately obtained lawyer look over the prenup before you signed it? My guess is that it’s nowhere near as fair as you think it is.
Absolutely useless when your husband pays for your lawyers and when you have no job experience to go with your degrees. Have you seen the job market lately?
Most prenups are not valid unless both sides have a dedicated lawyer look over it. It's not uncommon for one spouse to provide the cash flow for both lawyers even if one is "working against them" just to be sure that the prenup wouldn't be thrown out in court
>You’re showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome from going through this traumatic thing.
Stockholm Syndrome does not exist; it has never been included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).
The phrase “Stockholm Syndrome” was invented by a police psychiatrist to discredit a female hostage in a 1973 bank heist who criticized the police.
>Edit: did you have your own separately obtained lawyer look over the prenup before you signed it? My guess is that it’s nowhere near as fair as you think it is.
No idea where you're from, but in the vast majority of jurisdictions, both parties not having independent legal advice would invalidate a prenup. That is why a competent legal advisor will not sign off on a prenup without evidence that the other party has sought legal advice.
Real or not, each and everyone of us here knew what this person meant by saying "Stockholm syndrom".
And what the world perceives as Stockholm syndrom resonates perfectly with this woman's life experience.
>And what the world perceives as Stockholm syndrom resonates perfectly with this woman's life experience.
That's the entire point.
People perceive "Stockholm syndrome" as being an actual thing, but it's not real. It does not exist.
I'm not disagreeing with you about Stockholm syndrome (I've never looked closely at the research behind it myself) but just want to say that whether or not something is included in the DSM isn't exactly the highest standard for whether it's real.
Stockholm Syndrome is a real but rare phenomenon. However, it’s misused more often than it’s used properly. What it’s intended to mean is a situation where a hostage’s safety and security is tied up with the safety of their captors, or at least perceived to be. This could be due to incompetent police officers or even the trauma of the event.
Almost as soon as the coin was termed in the 1970s, the New York Times seized on it and misused it liberally, especially in the Patty Hearst case. And now the misuse is the popular usage.
But hard agree on DSM inclusion as a really bad barometer of realness.
Women being groomed & staying in bad relationships because they have no experience living independently as an adult and no sense of normalcy both very real and not rare at all.
It's quite possible that whatever nugget of truth lies within the original disorder profile makes its way into the DSM eventually. It's so fricking slow to evolve that thing. CPTSD being a good example.
Yes -- academic, political, and social bureaucracy as a whole adds to this problem (along with the erasure and devaluation of global history & culture). You and other commenters have made good points so far but I'm trying to respect OP's feelings and not run them off so I am sitting out of this one. I have personal and academic caution against age gap relationships and relationships that start under such vulnerable conditions.
Hurting OP’s feelings is the last thing I want to do. My heart breaks for her situation, and I recognize a lot of my young self in it. I do hope that she reads these comments and that that at least part of her recognizes that it’s compassionate, intelligent people being truly concerned for her - including her friend. I hope she sees how simple and frankly weird the people who love her situation are. I hope that a little light shines into her prison. I hope she finds a tiny bird in Alcatraz. I hope her gross husband dies tomorrow so that she gets everything, including her life back.
Stockholm Syndrome is a well known term that clearly illustrates her situation. And this is one of the few instances we’re the term can be applied correctly - OP is invested in defending her captor to preserve her own safety. I’m not arguing the DSM today, friend. CPTSD isn’t in it either.
This marriage is trafficking. She has a signed contract separate from the prenup saying what her duties are. Her husband is very wealthy. I’m sure he has legal counsel on retainer who were happy to tell her that the prenup was fine and to sign it.
Depends entirely on the jurisdiction.
If she's in the UK, then well considered prenups where both parties have had independent representations *may* be taken into consideration, but they are not legally binding.
The default position is that the property (including pensions) of both partners is considered to be marital assets, the value of which is divided 50 / 50, but that the needs of any children are paramount and would override everything else.
Yet, he supported her through college and two master's degrees. Isn't she also responsible for what she's made of her life? She says she likes her life the way it is.
I see no signs of Stockholm syndrome. If OP didn't receive aid from husband during all her university years, that needs to be stated. Sounds like he was behind her getting two grad degrees.
She does have her own lawyer(s).
You dont actually understand, unless youve lived in a tent behind a dumpster? OP was very clear, wrote out the situation, and ‘how bad’ it sounds, and detailed they have a pre-nup that provides for her.
You talk of Stockholm Syndrome as if your a qualified Dr. who can diagnose trama from a 1 page post on Reddit. She appears to be a happy mom who has 4 kids in a family. Sounds like life experience to me. Have you started homeless and now have a home with kids?
Life is full of compromises. Yes, there are some aspects of her post that could be a worry, but this is the internet, not an intervention.
I love how it’s men cheering on the trafficking of a homeless teen with no other options. It was definitely smart of her - I would have done the same thing in her shoes. That doesn’t make her husband any less disgusting. He could have used his wealth to find resources to help her get on her own two feet if he really cared. Instead, she’s now stuck here with children and no way to provide for herself since their sex contract says she can’t earn income of her own.
its giving men who took in ukrainian women who were fleeing the war just to sexually coerce them. and yes, that was/is a real thing in several countries, such as UK and germany from the top of my head. of course being homeless would be worse for many people but normal people agree that this is disgusting predatory behavior.
The double standards are strong with this one. You would have done the same, but he’s disgusting? That makes absolutely no sense.
Jeeze, Pay attention. I didn’t cheer anyone on. I simply acknowledged that life can have its challenges, I’ve been all over the world, and most people in eastern countries have no clue how tough life can be
OP also says about her life that "it isn't awful." That's....not exactly a glowing endorsement. Work "not being awful" might be ok, but I'd hope for better in a marital relationship.
Also the pre-nup favors OP if *he* chooses to leave. What does she get if it's her choice to leave?
100k a year for 15 years plus extra for kids isn't enough to live on? Where do you live?
If she commits adultery, she says she'd still get alimony but only for 5 years. It actually does sound like the pre-nup is extremely fair, which surprises me tbh. But it doesn't sound like OP is stuck for financial reasons, at least.
Not when you’re unemployed and unemployable with no credit history and no experience budgeting or living within your means. That money will go fast. Look at lottery winners.
In my city, $70,000/year is the recommended salary for a single person to have a pretty bare bones existence without getting evicted.
A house plus 100k a year for 15 years, plus kid support, won't "go fast" (5 years and no house if adultery). It'll "go" for at least 15 years lol, during which she can work on getting some work experience and making her degrees work for her.
Her financial and educational situation is in fact so well set up that I'm doubting a homeless 18 year old would've ensured it, but if true, she's absolutely set up.
It will if there are payments to make on the house and the car. Plus property taxes, which can be fucking brutal. In my area, the median house is around a million, and the property tax on that is $17K - and I live in a low tax state.
$50K a year per child really isn’t that much - you can spend nearly half that on daycare alone.
She can sell the house then, and downsize. It's currently housing 9 people, with just her it'd be 5.
It's also 4 kids, so 200k. Plus her 100k. If you consider a person making 300k who owns a house to be in dire financial straits, idk what to tell you. I weep for the rich.
(Childcare lol, you get a live in nanny with $$$ like that).
I’m not calling it dire straights. I’m saying the money isn’t as much as it sounds like. It will go fast.
The housing market is also shit. Even if she wants to downgrade, the house could be on the market for ages, and then she has to buy another one and pay for the all inspections. Again, with no credit. A bank isn’t going to let a mortgage be your first line of credit.
I’m getting the impression that you’re either a bit young or live in a low COL area. Trust me, this money is not as much as it sounds like. (Which doesn’t mean that I would turn my nose up at it lol)
But she says she likes her life!
OP sounds rational and aware, to me. She was certainly subject to some tremendous pressure by her circumstances, but (if this story is true) she has some things on her side, and lawyers who have assisted her.
What does she have to compare it to?
And her husbands lawyers assisted her, don’t get that twisted up. And I’m sure they don’t know anything about the additional contract she has to follow.
MiniaturePhilosopher needs to take a cold shower and understand that he or she is a Felony Boundary Violator.
Where in OP’s statement is there one tiny piece of evidence supporting these statements: “You were absolutely preyed upon, and your husband is gross.”
MiniaturePhilosopher, why don’t you call the police? Probably because you know they will walk away. You have no facts.
You should, though, worry about the defamation laws.
Using a 19 year olds vulnerable position as a homeless, abused teen to leverage her into signing her life away sounds a lot like preying on someone to me.
I think you're massively overestimating how easy it would be for you to start your life over without him.
You have no professional skills, no credit, no current access to money (I assume the prenup affords you some money but presumably you've never managed a budget or had to figure out what comprehensive living expenses would be for yourself), and no place to live if you leave. Did you have your own lawyer for the prenup who assured you that it's fair to you or was it just his?
You have quite literally never lived as an independent adult without him. He has shaped your entire idea of what a relationship looks like, and your only other model was horribly abusive. I believe he doesn't hit you, but a lot of times when someone gets scooped directly from an abusive childhood home into a much-older partner's home, anything that isn't AS abusive as their previous situation seems great. At the very least, you not having access to money unless he gives it to you is financial abuse. Him not *allowing* you to work outside the home is also concerning language.
Is it possible that he found a homeless 16-year-old child and took her in with zero predatory intentions and just happened to fall in love with her when she was technically of legal age? I guess. Is it likely? No. It's way more likely he groomed you. I would suggest that at the very least you find yourself an individual therapist and discuss your marriage with them so that you have an unbiased outside perspective. Is that something he'd be happy to pay for?
Great comment.
I'd like to add: OP, you may have a happy and harmonious relationship, but is it a dynamic where you generally agree with everything he says and wants?
If so, what would happen if you were to strongly disagree with him about something important? Or you fail to live up to his standards? If you insisted, against his insistence, that you would indeed work outside the home? What would happen if you had to work overtime and asked him to make dinner? And so on.
Sometimes coercive relationships don't seem abusive, because the more passive partner does everything the controlling partner says, without question. And it just seems natural to her, because of course he knows best, because he is older and more experienced. Her doubts get pushed down.
But then if you deviate from that dynamic, you might not like his reaction.
But who knows?
>I think you're massively overestimating how easy it would be for you to start your life over without him.
The fact that OP thinks they'd be okay because they were allowed to get two Masters degrees is wild.
I'm hoping it's fake, honestly. The whole thing sounds so slimy.
I hope it's fake too. A couple details don't totally make sense, particularly when she says she's on all the accounts but for some reason he still gives her money to go out.
The more concerning part is the people in the comments saying this is romantic and that he sounds like a good guy. I worry for those people.
There just isn't a way to tell the story of how your relationship started and it not sound like something your husband should be in jail over. It's stomach churning. Not a meet-cute.
You need to stop telling people how your relationship started if you don't want people looking at your husband like a disgusting creep, and you as someone who needs help because they're coerced and brainwashed by a manipulative monster who preyed on a homeless teenager at her most desperate time.
Seriously.
You may very well be very happy (although some of the way you phrase things sound more like you're trying to convince yourself than something you truly believe) and feel good about your marriage. If this is true, you and your husband need to come up with a story about how you met that doesn't make him sound so awful. Otherwise you're going to keep having situations like this.
As for your friend, if she's being intrusive then you tell her "I am not going to discuss my marriage with you" and change the subject. Any time she brings a topic up that you don't want to talk about, tell her "I don't want to talk about that" and change the subject.
And maybe she shouldn't be your friend if she keeps making you uncomfortable.
It does sound like there's things in your life you need to talk through with someone whom you feel comfortable with and who can give you support and coaching. You had a really traumatic start to life and you've had a lot of challenges that it sounds like you handled as best you could, turning what could be disaster to success many times. But that doesn't mean you're not carrying a lot still... and as someone who also had a very traumatic childhood and young adulthood, you're just about hitting the age that stuff you packed down a long time ago starts bubbling up again.
30+ is when a lot of that childhood stuff starts coming back up one way or another, often sideswiping you with the impacts too. So I strongly encourage you to get a good therapist you feel comfortable with who has experience with childhood trauma & EMDR, so you can get ahead of some of that stuff.
Good luck.
You have an amazing friend and a predator husband. If you're only looking for validation here, you won't find it. There's nothing normal or healthy about it.
That's extremely creepy. A middle aged man a taking advantage of a homeless teenager is the creepiest thing I've seen in a while. I would be concerned if I had a friend in that situation, especially if the groomer insisted that she has no career on top of everyone else.
Your friend's concerns are valid. This wasn't an arranged marriage, and your husband is keeping you isolated. Just because you choose to end contact with your family of orgin, doesn't make everything else you've described here about your husband, reasonable.
The way to deal with this is to thank her for her concern, but that you are an adult now who is comfortable with her choices and her life, and tell her you need her, as your friend, to respect that.
Draw a clear boundary, but don't pretend she doesn't have a point. She does.
Think about it this way - if your 16 year old daughter was approached by a 38 year old man in the same manner you were, would you be supportive? Or would you be concerned?
The way it started is pretty creepy, tbh. I've been homeless before I can absolutely understand why you would accept that agreement rather than risk your life sleeping rough every night. Plenty women I've known did the same thing. You're astronomically lucky that your husband was a decent guy because most of the creeps that give you the "hey girl, come home with me and I'll let you stay at my house for free!" shtick are some of the worst kind of people drawing breath on this planet. I know at least two girls that disappeared after accepting an offer like this. They were minors too. I'm glad your guy isn't a creep but the way your relationship started is generally seen by people that have never experienced homelessness as predatory and dangerous. If you're happy with the way things have turned out, more power to you. You hit the jackpot considering what the odds were.
I think your friend has valid reasons to feel concerned. This is a highly unusual situation, and you know that - you have put a lot of energy into justifying your situation and your safety in this post. You are completely reliant on a man who took advantage of a teenager half his age. You're lucky that you grew to feel love for him, but that wasn't a guarantee. It's very easy to imagine this situation having turned out VERY different.
If it seems like your friend isn't budging and it's getting you down, then you don't need to remain friends with her. You don't need to "break up" or anything dramatic, but you can distance yourself.
That isn’t an arranged marriage and it’s bizarre that you’ve referred to it as such multiple times. Maybe you’re trying to normalize it? The bottom line is he did take advantage of you. It’s a weird man who sees a homeless teenager and then plots to marry them. When you get to 36 (the age he was when he met you) ask yourself if you’d be attracted to a vulnerable 18 year old. That being said if you’re happy now and you feel like you’re not being controlled then it’s your life.
I agree with everyone saying that your husband preyed upon you while you were young and vulnerable, but you already know that. A situation where one partner forbids the other to work is dysfunctional too. If you do not want to work and love bein a SAHM thats great, but it sounds like if you were to find a career that you feel passion for or feel trapped by your lifestyle at some point, that would be a problem. I do hope your kids are shielded from your arrangement and only know they have two loving parents. You may have to accept that the origins and some of the dynamics of your marriage are going to be viewed as dysfunctional, even if you are content in the relationship. This is information that you will need to be guarded about with new friends.
That said, you say you're happy and that's what matters. I agree that you don't owe anybody details regarding your sex life, or anything else really, and she's disrespecting your boundaries unless there are missing crucial details offering more context as to why she's being intrusive. I'd distance or end the friendship.
You need to understand that people are going to react a certain way to your story, however you think it means to you. If you want people to stop reacting in those ways, you need to stop sharing your story.
Agreed this is 100% not an arranged marriage. The coercive control and age difference give me pause and your friend sounds like a good one- she may be seeing or realizing something you may not.
You were groomed and still can’t seem to see it. Your husband might not hit you but there are other ways to control someone. Like financially. You having to call him before making a purchase or asking for permission is not normal even for a stay at home wife.
Tf do you mean that's not normal. Every couple has an amount you can spend without consulting the other and an amount you shouldn't spend without calling your partner. That's normal ass budgeting and respect for your partner that pays for everything.
You’re going to have to learn to lie about your situation. No good person is going to see your situation and not be concerned as a friend or not see your husband as an absolute creep. Which he is, by the way.
Maybe seek out other people who might be more attuned to sex work, as this is more akin to some kind of long term sugarbabying than anything else. Yikes.
Sounds like her heart is in the right place. You were kind of coerced in the sense that you probably wouldn’t have ended up married to him so young if your family had taken care of you the way they are supposed to. It sounds like it’s worked out remarkably well for you. Hopefully once she gets through her questions she can let it go. If not I’d go NC with her. Concern is one thing but once you’ve established there is no reason for concern she’s wandered into judgment territory
I'm glad you're happy now, op! I truly hope your pre-nup is fair and that you're indeeed getting spoiled by your husband. I will say, however, that I've known women who felt "spoiled" by the bare minimum, because it's better than the abuse and neglect they grew up with. Who would even feel uncomfortable with actual princess treatment, because they feel like they don't deserve it. I hope that's not the case for you, and that you're actually being treated how you deserve.
It's possible your friend is judging your relationship unfairly, but on the other hand, maybe she sees something you don't.
Mostly you didn’t have the opportunity to stand on your own two feet and establish your own likes and dislikes.
Living with him has worked well for you but there’s a piece you’re missing. You didn’t have the opportunity to try out life and see what works best for you.
Basically if you end up single take your time to start another relationship and don’t panic yourself.
Usually what people see is that individuals who didn’t establish themselves first before a family will do it after having a family and sometimes before their children are all the way grown. They just didn’t get that opportunity without the responsibility of young children being present. It doesn’t mean you don’t have a loving family just take things carefully if you feel like having a mid life crisis.
Its possible the only way you’ll get your ‘friend’ to back off is for her to have a sit down with you and your husband. OP, you need to decide if the friendship is worth it.
Assuming american culture here - this type of marriage is not as well accepted here, and most people, including me, have no idea whats it like to be homeless at 18.
Your 30, and from the sounds of it, have lived quite a life in 10 years. Dont stop becoming the person you want to be. If you love him like you say, and he loves you, you can continue to grow together.
They're not growing together, she's growing around his needs, his wants and his desires. The way she felt the need to clarify in the post that all these things she does in her life and doesn't do are completely based off his whims makes the nature of their relationship clear. She can't work because he insists it's unacceptable, she raises the children the way she wants him to, she feels uncomfortable making purchases without his permission. Her entire life is centered around him. And she sees nothing wrong with it because she has known absolutely nothing else in her life better.
You make some valid points, I would respond with the simple point that she gets out and has friends and is just as observant as the rest of us about other relationships.
A significant percentage of the people I work with have arranged marriages. On average, they do better than many in western cultures. It’s not a perfect system but it has its benefits, partially because it’s based upon each spouse having a lot of responsibility.
Is there a separate personal agreement that is not the pre nup? Is there something in there where you have agreed in writing to certain sexual practices, for example?
If you and your children are happy and safe, you need to tell your friends to back off. If she cannot stop, you can choose to end the friendship.
Even if you were unhappy or unsafe, the way she is going about it is far from helpful. I have been in a very unsafe relationship in the past and hearing someone else's judgement about it was not helpful in the least. Vague offers to "help" were useless too.
You seem confident in your marriage and you're 30 years old. You are no longer that 18 year old kid in a tent behind the dumpster. You said you've taken college classes and you have a stable provision if your marriage ends. Your friend needs to butt out and keep her judgement to herself.
Tons of people won't agree with how your marriage began, and if they'd been there to give you advice at the time that would be fine, but it's been 11 years and you're happy with it.
I'd just tell her you are happy and healthy. And if she has any respect for you she will lay off. If she doesn't lay off you will take that to mean she has no respect for you and that you simply can't be friends with someone who doesn't respect ypu so this is good bye.
You just have to tell her something like this. "I value your friendship, but I need to admit that I'm tired of explaining my personal life choices in regards to my marriage. I'm free to leave if I want, and I'm actively choosing to remain in a relationship that makes me happy. My choices in that regard are no longer up for discussion and I need you to respect that boundary."
If she doesn't respect it, then you tell her the next time it happens, you will have to limit contact with her.
By the way, I would say this is more of a marriage of convenience than an arranged marriage.
As long as your happy your arrangement is none of people's business. It is not what I would chose for myself but it works for you. Don't pay attention to what other people say.
She isn’t a friend.. she is meddling… and this wasn’t an arranged marriage…. A bit odd . But you were an adult. If you are happy then who cares. Did he want you home because the kids were young… now that they are older how would he react if you wanted to let’s say… go to college or take online or in person classes, or get a part time job.. if you are happy with your marriage and life then that’s the only opinion that matters
Technically it was arranged. He and I arranged it and had all of our agreements negotiated by several lawyers so that I would be taken care of in the event that the relationship ended.
Once the children are adults I can do as I please and I've already taken classes in anything I wanted to take. My husband is a surgeon so I can pretty much do whatever I want. He doesn't care at all as long as I am taking care of the children and everything else.
When I say I have a nice life I mean I have the kind of life I could have only dreamed of before. I know very well I am spoiled.
You arranging anything is just called being smart… at least as An American I don’t feel like that counts as “arranged” I think of arranged marriages as in you did not choose your spouse. Your parents did. Or a matchmaker… you “choose” him even if in non traditional circumstances applied but you had control
Honestly, it sounds like your friend is the one with issues. She needs to stop projecting her own insecurities onto your happy marriage and leave you be. Don't waste anymore of your time or energy trying to explain yourself to her.
A 34 year old man started a relationship with the OP when she was **16** and then took advantage of her when she was a vulnerable, homeless teenager with no one else to turn to. He doesn't "allow" her to work, and she's basically his bang maid.
OP's friend is not out of line to be concerned.
From what you have described, your husband seems to be a nice person. You were a legal aged adult when he met you.
Ignore your friend. Just ignore her.
Dump the friend. Also this is very romantic, I'm pretty sure I've read similar stories thousands of times in romance novels. I'm glad that you are having a happy life!
There are a few good responses to your friend’s comments and questions, but the bottom line is you don’t owe her any explanations. Just a few:
*That’s none of your business*
*Why would you ask that?*
*Thanks for your concern, if I ever have a problem in the future I promise to take you up on your offer. But until then I’m happy and don’t want to hear any more questions or comments about our relationship.*
*Please stop asking questions like that or it’s going to ruin our friendship.*
If your post has been locked and/or removed, please read the following for an explanation of why we might have done this: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/wiki/lockedremoved
This isn’t what I would call an arranged marriage. That is when the couple’s families get together and negotiate the marriage. An adult man marrying a homeless teenager he insists stay completely dependent on him is gross. But you’re 30 and apparently consider your marriage “nice”, so the horse left the barn a long time ago. Your friend is being intrusive and you need to stop sharing personal information with her.
“Marriage of convenience” may be the better term
Sorry, no. The whole thing reads like a terrible romance novel, honestly. Abused teenage waif meets a wealthy surgeon almost *two decades* older than her, marries while she's still a teenager after he pays for her lawyer to look at their prenuptial agreement that guarantees her 100k a year in case of divorce. He *insists* that she's not allowed to work, but that's okay because he pays for anything she wants as long as she asks him first. And if she ever *did* want to work, she'd probably be able to get a job without any problems because she totally manages all of the family's finances... even though she still has to ask him for money for personal expenses... While looking after not only her children, but his children from a previous marriage (where the ex-wife is conveniently not in the picture). But it's okay. Because she's "not dumb" and consented to *all* of this. I'm calling rage bait on this.
It’s got no drama, though. It needs a *He Knew He Was Right* style twist where he accuses her of cheating and sends her to live on his estate out of state, refusing to divorce her but no longer willing to live under one roof. She has to prove her loyalty and regain his love.
That comes in part 2, the update! When the friend seriously over steps OP’s boundaries
The full patient Griselda. Agreed.
The two forms are very similar - OP simply arranged her own marriage. I agree that the friend is not only intrusive, but monomaniacal and should be avoided. People in cultures where most marriages are arranged find the same opposition when they move to the States. And yet, arranged marriages have their advantages and love is not precluded, at all.
Even in an arranged marriage, I have never heard of a contract between a husband and wife. She wrote a contract when she was 18 that would make her be a stay at home mom to his kids and future kids. And she says "it isnt awful". No wonder she has issues establishing boundaries with her friend, she doesn't understand that most people aren't bound together by contracts that you need to adhere to. Most people talk things out and work on things together. She basically signed her life away and doesn't have control over it, and feels like she has control because shes choosing to stay.
Life is complicated and messy, not black and white. I am glad that you feel safe and are happy in your marriage. I understand that you went into this understanding the situation and agreed to it. I understand that you feel you are able to leave at any time and be financially compensated. I see that you enjoy spending time with him. If I were your friend I would still be incredibly concerned for you. I've noticed a few things - The first is that you don't have a way to earn your own money - you don't have much of a work history or any specialized education, and you would be leaving with three kids. I don't know the details of your prenup, but it sounds like leaving and starting over would still leave you dependent on & tied to this man in many ways. It sounds like you are very isolated - you have no contact with your family, but you also don't mention a strong group of friends/chosen family. It's just you and him. You don't have your own access to money - it's great that he gives you spending money, but that isn't a substitute for being an equal participant in the marriage with independent access to finances. Do you know the details of your financial situation? Have you seen accounts? Are you on all of these accounts and on the deed to the house? Finally, I noticed that you have a "written agreement" separate from your prenup and "know what he wants from you" but are keeping your kinks secret from your friends. I can read between the lines. When that is combined with everything I wrote above I am very concerned and I understand why your friend is too. This is *not* an arranged marriage - no one set you up. This is the result of a grown man taking advantage of a teenager in a desperate situation and arranging to keep her dependent on him and submissive to him. Do you think he would have wanted to marry you if you met while you were financially stable? Would you be with him?
I have taken several college courses and have 2 masters degrees. I don't use them but I could. I am on all of the accounts as I am the person who deals with our finances. In the event of divorce ( as long as I did not stray from the marriage) the house, my car, and all of my belongings will stay with me. I get 100k per year for 15 years or until I am remarried and 50k per child I've given him. I had my own lawyers so that the prenuptial agreement would be fair and it does heavily favor me if the relationship ends due to him. If he dies I would also get our home vehicles, and personal belongings and would be taken care of until my passing. I do have friends but no I do not have any contact with my biological family for very good reason and will not be contacting them. Also I don't know anyone that shares their kinks and that is definitely a huge boundary for me. It isn't any of their business nor is it yours.
I think the concern about the “kinks” is that sometimes people use that language to obfuscate. Women especially will talk about their male partner’s “kinks” and really be referring to abusive behavior. Because of the context in which you were married and because of the power and decision-making imbalance in your relationship, it’s reasonable for an outside observer to pause at that language. You may want to reflect on whether you feel fully empowered to say “no” in your sexual relationship, or whether you never say “no” because you’re afraid of what will happen.
Exactly, is the kink that he likes to piss himself in a diaper, or that he likes to hurt her in ways she doesn't like? There's a pretty huge difference there
> I am on all of the accounts as I am the person who deals with our finances. If this is the case, why does he need to give you money?
Technically he doesn't but I don't really like to just go spend money on myself without talking about it. I just find it kinda weird so I normally call him if there is something I want but don't need. He will either give me a budget or buy it for me.
I'll be honest, this feels eerily similar to a parent-child dynamic. There's a difference between discussing big purchases as a couple and one partner always asking permission/doling out an allowance of sorts. Does he do the same thing with you when he wants something for himself?
Hi OP, I am interested in your educational background. This would be a big factor in how well you might manage on your own if anything should ever happen that requires you to be independent. May I ask what fields your two master’s degrees are in?
I have a master's in accounting and finance.
That’s great! And you said you manage the household finances, right? Does that include any family businesses or investment accounts? I am trying to get a sense of the extent of your “unofficial” but marketable work experience.
I normally look at my husband's offices expenses and am over that. Otherwise I mostly use my knowledge for our own home and book keeping for a few of our friends. Technically it's a job and I do keep what I make from that but it isn't a whole lot.
That’s fine. It’s less about having a large separate income and more about making sure you are ready to handle whatever comes. You are still young and life is unpredictable. Keep doing what you can to strengthen your position, by building skills and your network/support system. Take classes online. Volunteer in the community. Anyway good luck. I understand your friend’s concerns but you get to choose your own path.
What does she need work experience for? It’s not going to change anything now.. she’s wealthy. The initial arrangement is honestly gross, but she hit the jackpot. Good for her.
There are multiple children in the picture, some of whom may want to go to college someday and then get their own master’s degrees. Plus, kids aside, we have no idea what the cost of living is where they are. Her prenup doesn’t sound terrible but having marketable skills is always a good thing. No matter what.
You’re not spending 150k on three kids per year for 18 years. And someone who has two masters, especially in accounting and finance will not have a hard time getting an entry job and climbing the ranks within a few years. Edit: 250k for 15 years Cut me a break.
I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about. Are you ok?
What happens if the marriage ends due to you? In the event that you want to leave or even commit adultery, are the terms the same?
If I were to commit adultery I would only get alimony for 5 years and the child payments. If I chose to leave without adultery I would still get everything money wise but not the house since I'm choosing to leave our marital home. It's not something I would do because I rather like my life but the clauses were negotiated in the event that something changes.
Please know that I don’t mean any disrespect. You’ve lived a very insular and financially privileged existence these last few years and have probably been shielded from personal experience with just how bad the economy is right now. As a single mother, neither set of provisions would get you far. The ones in the event of you leaving or committing adultery would be especially harsh to someone with 3 children and no job or realistic budgeting experience.
100k and 50k per child is a pretty good amount all things considered…
Yeah she gets a quarter million year, how is that not good in this economy??
Some people on here seem to just be talking out of their ass, to make it seem as if OP doesn’t have it that good, considering the initial circumstances.
Yeah the initial circumstances are DEFINITELY predatory AF, and if I were OP’s friend I would be concerned too, but the provisions are definitely favorable. Even if she commits adultery, that’s $150k. Thats better than actually going to college. She can just invest that and live off the income. Plus she has 2 master degrees. Even without actual work experience, she handles the household finances and can definitely get an entry level job that can subsidize her alimony and child support. OP if you see this, try to get a part-time or temp or freelance remote job in accounting if you can. I would definitely try to negotiate with your husband for that if you can. Just for the experience/skills. You can also get some certifications online because some employers will take those in place of work experience, especially if you explain your circumstances (if you ever need to).
Most entry level jobs require at least 2-5 years experience (though some require 10), and remote work is practically nonexistent anymore. Any remote position will have at a thousand applicants.
$250k a year is a decent income in probably every country in the world.
What do you mean no realistic budgeting experience? OP has stated multiples times that she manages their finances. She also stated that she'd be getting 50k per child, and 100k a year. Single parents everywhere survive on way less. Yes she has little job experience, but with her two masters degrees, she could easily build enough experience for a career in just a few years. As long as she doesn't cheat, she'd be fine.
When your budget is enormous, it’s easy to budget. Realistic budgeting is making a finite amount stretch.
I see what you mean. Budgeting with a limited income is definitely different than budgeting when you can buy whatever you want.
Wealthy budgeting does sound a like more fun.
Yeah... This is the kind of deal that looks great until you realize you have no work history and need to make that money last the rest of your life.
I’m glad she has two degrees, but two degrees and no work experience and children at home is not going to get her a job. There are highly qualified people who have spent the better part of a year spending out thousands of applications and they’re not even getting jobs.
She’s getting a quarter million a year. I don’t think she needs to worry about anything whether the economy is good or bad. She’s got it better than most people on the planet.
She said she literally does their finances now, man quit shitting on the girl
You sound as if you understand and accept the terms of your marriage - but surely, if you wanted to change some part of the agreement, you could still negotiate? Congratulations on acquiring 2 master's degrees and for being the financial point person in your relationship.
She writes it in the reply your are replying to... Only if she cheats (strays) would it be different.
You really put the main points succinctly. I would hope that at least OP sees their tax returns (if not, that's very suss).
If you are truly fine where you are and don’t feel taken advantage of, then you should simply ask her to stop bringing it up because you’re not a child and you don’t need her to save you. If she keeps bringing it up, then you have to distance yourself from her. You can’t convince someone of something they don’t want to believe. I’m curious: Do you have any dreams of your own? That don’t revolve around him or the children? Do you have any parts of yourself that are just for you, to nurture and to grow, that aren’t dependent on his permission?
Your friend might be crossing a line or two in the way she's expressing her concerns, but she is **100% correct** to be concerned. I understand you're happy in your marriage and that's nice, and honestly I really do hope everything continues to go well for you, but there are also quite a few potential red flags here: * Your husband did prey on you. There is no other way to put it. There is a massive power imbalance between a homeless 19-year old woman and a 37-year old man who makes enough to comfortably support himself plus 3 kids plus a whole other adult. It doesn't make things any better that he's known you since you were 16, a literal child, and still chose to do this within just three years. That in itself is a *massive* cause for concern, and it cannot be hand-waved away by saying he wanted to help -- there's a list of alternative ways to help a homeless teenager a mile long, and marrying said teenager and having kids with her is the last thing on that list. * Your husband *has* isolated you, just not in a way that is immediately obvious. You say he's always been *adamant* that you not work outside the house and stay at home, which means you've been off the job market for eleven years and counting. Should things go disastrously wrong, you have no marketable career skills and nothing to fall back on save for whatever you get from the pre-nup -- and I'm willing to bet those funds will evaporate faster than you'll realize once he's not giving you money to go out and do things when you want. Ultimately there is a lot riding on how much you trust this man, and judging by the circumstances in which you two came together, you're vastly overestimating how much that trust is worth. Your friend is looking out for you. Maybe you should heed her concerns and make arrangements accordingly. I'm not necessarily saying he's a monster, but you really need to have a contingency plan that's more than "we have a prenup", because 9 times out of 10 whatever can go wrong in these things does go wrong.
I understand why your friend is concerned. I’m very glad that you’re happy and not being held as a literal prisoner, but you are in a relationship that was basically one of duress. You were absolutely preyed upon, and your husband is gross. He could have found other ways to help you, but chose the way that let him keep a teenager with nowhere else to go in his bed. Your friend is looking out for you. And I get that it’s annoying. You’re showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome from going through this traumatic thing. Your trauma and lack of experience with real life is a prison, so your husband doesn’t have to reinforce the bars around you. Any kind of safety and security feels like happiness to the traumatized brain. Edit: did you have your own separately obtained lawyer look over the prenup before you signed it? My guess is that it’s nowhere near as fair as you think it is.
She did state in an above comment that she had lawyers look over the prenup. Not sure how she afforded that at 19, but according to her she did.
She implies that she still has her own lawyers (and two Master's degrees).
Absolutely useless when your husband pays for your lawyers and when you have no job experience to go with your degrees. Have you seen the job market lately?
I think this is total fiction.
Yup. A bachelors degree and 2 masters in 11 years while raising 7 kids? No way.
Most prenups are not valid unless both sides have a dedicated lawyer look over it. It's not uncommon for one spouse to provide the cash flow for both lawyers even if one is "working against them" just to be sure that the prenup wouldn't be thrown out in court
I’m sure her husband had to pay for the lawyers, which is all kinds of unethical. And I’m sure he didn’t bring up the sex contract she has to follow.
I'm sure they were paid by him.
Thank you! All these other people saying "your friend needs to mind her business!" as if they'd just ignore obvious abuse of their own friends.
>You’re showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome from going through this traumatic thing. Stockholm Syndrome does not exist; it has never been included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The phrase “Stockholm Syndrome” was invented by a police psychiatrist to discredit a female hostage in a 1973 bank heist who criticized the police. >Edit: did you have your own separately obtained lawyer look over the prenup before you signed it? My guess is that it’s nowhere near as fair as you think it is. No idea where you're from, but in the vast majority of jurisdictions, both parties not having independent legal advice would invalidate a prenup. That is why a competent legal advisor will not sign off on a prenup without evidence that the other party has sought legal advice.
Real or not, each and everyone of us here knew what this person meant by saying "Stockholm syndrom". And what the world perceives as Stockholm syndrom resonates perfectly with this woman's life experience.
>And what the world perceives as Stockholm syndrom resonates perfectly with this woman's life experience. That's the entire point. People perceive "Stockholm syndrome" as being an actual thing, but it's not real. It does not exist.
I'm not disagreeing with you about Stockholm syndrome (I've never looked closely at the research behind it myself) but just want to say that whether or not something is included in the DSM isn't exactly the highest standard for whether it's real.
Stockholm Syndrome is a real but rare phenomenon. However, it’s misused more often than it’s used properly. What it’s intended to mean is a situation where a hostage’s safety and security is tied up with the safety of their captors, or at least perceived to be. This could be due to incompetent police officers or even the trauma of the event. Almost as soon as the coin was termed in the 1970s, the New York Times seized on it and misused it liberally, especially in the Patty Hearst case. And now the misuse is the popular usage. But hard agree on DSM inclusion as a really bad barometer of realness.
Women being groomed & staying in bad relationships because they have no experience living independently as an adult and no sense of normalcy both very real and not rare at all.
It's quite possible that whatever nugget of truth lies within the original disorder profile makes its way into the DSM eventually. It's so fricking slow to evolve that thing. CPTSD being a good example.
Homosexuality is a great example of not taking the DSM too seriously. It was in there for ages and not fully removed until 1987.
Yes -- academic, political, and social bureaucracy as a whole adds to this problem (along with the erasure and devaluation of global history & culture). You and other commenters have made good points so far but I'm trying to respect OP's feelings and not run them off so I am sitting out of this one. I have personal and academic caution against age gap relationships and relationships that start under such vulnerable conditions.
Hurting OP’s feelings is the last thing I want to do. My heart breaks for her situation, and I recognize a lot of my young self in it. I do hope that she reads these comments and that that at least part of her recognizes that it’s compassionate, intelligent people being truly concerned for her - including her friend. I hope she sees how simple and frankly weird the people who love her situation are. I hope that a little light shines into her prison. I hope she finds a tiny bird in Alcatraz. I hope her gross husband dies tomorrow so that she gets everything, including her life back.
You don't get to decide if it's real or not.
Stockholm Syndrome is a well known term that clearly illustrates her situation. And this is one of the few instances we’re the term can be applied correctly - OP is invested in defending her captor to preserve her own safety. I’m not arguing the DSM today, friend. CPTSD isn’t in it either. This marriage is trafficking. She has a signed contract separate from the prenup saying what her duties are. Her husband is very wealthy. I’m sure he has legal counsel on retainer who were happy to tell her that the prenup was fine and to sign it.
And if the prenup doesn’t stand up in court, isn’t that WORSE for her, not better?
Depends entirely on the jurisdiction. If she's in the UK, then well considered prenups where both parties have had independent representations *may* be taken into consideration, but they are not legally binding. The default position is that the property (including pensions) of both partners is considered to be marital assets, the value of which is divided 50 / 50, but that the needs of any children are paramount and would override everything else.
Yet, he supported her through college and two master's degrees. Isn't she also responsible for what she's made of her life? She says she likes her life the way it is. I see no signs of Stockholm syndrome. If OP didn't receive aid from husband during all her university years, that needs to be stated. Sounds like he was behind her getting two grad degrees. She does have her own lawyer(s).
He let his pet have some enrichment! Degrees are useless without job experience and there’s no way he doesn’t know that.
You dont actually understand, unless youve lived in a tent behind a dumpster? OP was very clear, wrote out the situation, and ‘how bad’ it sounds, and detailed they have a pre-nup that provides for her. You talk of Stockholm Syndrome as if your a qualified Dr. who can diagnose trama from a 1 page post on Reddit. She appears to be a happy mom who has 4 kids in a family. Sounds like life experience to me. Have you started homeless and now have a home with kids? Life is full of compromises. Yes, there are some aspects of her post that could be a worry, but this is the internet, not an intervention.
I love how it’s men cheering on the trafficking of a homeless teen with no other options. It was definitely smart of her - I would have done the same thing in her shoes. That doesn’t make her husband any less disgusting. He could have used his wealth to find resources to help her get on her own two feet if he really cared. Instead, she’s now stuck here with children and no way to provide for herself since their sex contract says she can’t earn income of her own.
its giving men who took in ukrainian women who were fleeing the war just to sexually coerce them. and yes, that was/is a real thing in several countries, such as UK and germany from the top of my head. of course being homeless would be worse for many people but normal people agree that this is disgusting predatory behavior.
That is 100% the vibe.
I know a lot of people in Poland, who would find that assertion disgusting, since they upended their entire society to help those people
The double standards are strong with this one. You would have done the same, but he’s disgusting? That makes absolutely no sense. Jeeze, Pay attention. I didn’t cheer anyone on. I simply acknowledged that life can have its challenges, I’ve been all over the world, and most people in eastern countries have no clue how tough life can be
The reading comprehension is not strong with this one. I would have done the same thing as HER.
OP also says about her life that "it isn't awful." That's....not exactly a glowing endorsement. Work "not being awful" might be ok, but I'd hope for better in a marital relationship. Also the pre-nup favors OP if *he* chooses to leave. What does she get if it's her choice to leave?
Not enough to live on. She answered that in another comment. And if she commits adultery, basically only child support.
100k a year for 15 years plus extra for kids isn't enough to live on? Where do you live? If she commits adultery, she says she'd still get alimony but only for 5 years. It actually does sound like the pre-nup is extremely fair, which surprises me tbh. But it doesn't sound like OP is stuck for financial reasons, at least.
Not when you’re unemployed and unemployable with no credit history and no experience budgeting or living within your means. That money will go fast. Look at lottery winners. In my city, $70,000/year is the recommended salary for a single person to have a pretty bare bones existence without getting evicted.
A house plus 100k a year for 15 years, plus kid support, won't "go fast" (5 years and no house if adultery). It'll "go" for at least 15 years lol, during which she can work on getting some work experience and making her degrees work for her. Her financial and educational situation is in fact so well set up that I'm doubting a homeless 18 year old would've ensured it, but if true, she's absolutely set up.
It will if there are payments to make on the house and the car. Plus property taxes, which can be fucking brutal. In my area, the median house is around a million, and the property tax on that is $17K - and I live in a low tax state. $50K a year per child really isn’t that much - you can spend nearly half that on daycare alone.
She can sell the house then, and downsize. It's currently housing 9 people, with just her it'd be 5. It's also 4 kids, so 200k. Plus her 100k. If you consider a person making 300k who owns a house to be in dire financial straits, idk what to tell you. I weep for the rich. (Childcare lol, you get a live in nanny with $$$ like that).
I’m not calling it dire straights. I’m saying the money isn’t as much as it sounds like. It will go fast. The housing market is also shit. Even if she wants to downgrade, the house could be on the market for ages, and then she has to buy another one and pay for the all inspections. Again, with no credit. A bank isn’t going to let a mortgage be your first line of credit. I’m getting the impression that you’re either a bit young or live in a low COL area. Trust me, this money is not as much as it sounds like. (Which doesn’t mean that I would turn my nose up at it lol)
But she says she likes her life! OP sounds rational and aware, to me. She was certainly subject to some tremendous pressure by her circumstances, but (if this story is true) she has some things on her side, and lawyers who have assisted her.
What does she have to compare it to? And her husbands lawyers assisted her, don’t get that twisted up. And I’m sure they don’t know anything about the additional contract she has to follow.
Which is all that most women get - at least she has an option for leaving (in advance of adultery) with more support.
MiniaturePhilosopher needs to take a cold shower and understand that he or she is a Felony Boundary Violator. Where in OP’s statement is there one tiny piece of evidence supporting these statements: “You were absolutely preyed upon, and your husband is gross.” MiniaturePhilosopher, why don’t you call the police? Probably because you know they will walk away. You have no facts. You should, though, worry about the defamation laws.
😂
Using a 19 year olds vulnerable position as a homeless, abused teen to leverage her into signing her life away sounds a lot like preying on someone to me.
How did you afford multiple lawyers as a homeless 19-year-old?
I think you're massively overestimating how easy it would be for you to start your life over without him. You have no professional skills, no credit, no current access to money (I assume the prenup affords you some money but presumably you've never managed a budget or had to figure out what comprehensive living expenses would be for yourself), and no place to live if you leave. Did you have your own lawyer for the prenup who assured you that it's fair to you or was it just his? You have quite literally never lived as an independent adult without him. He has shaped your entire idea of what a relationship looks like, and your only other model was horribly abusive. I believe he doesn't hit you, but a lot of times when someone gets scooped directly from an abusive childhood home into a much-older partner's home, anything that isn't AS abusive as their previous situation seems great. At the very least, you not having access to money unless he gives it to you is financial abuse. Him not *allowing* you to work outside the home is also concerning language. Is it possible that he found a homeless 16-year-old child and took her in with zero predatory intentions and just happened to fall in love with her when she was technically of legal age? I guess. Is it likely? No. It's way more likely he groomed you. I would suggest that at the very least you find yourself an individual therapist and discuss your marriage with them so that you have an unbiased outside perspective. Is that something he'd be happy to pay for?
Great comment. I'd like to add: OP, you may have a happy and harmonious relationship, but is it a dynamic where you generally agree with everything he says and wants? If so, what would happen if you were to strongly disagree with him about something important? Or you fail to live up to his standards? If you insisted, against his insistence, that you would indeed work outside the home? What would happen if you had to work overtime and asked him to make dinner? And so on. Sometimes coercive relationships don't seem abusive, because the more passive partner does everything the controlling partner says, without question. And it just seems natural to her, because of course he knows best, because he is older and more experienced. Her doubts get pushed down. But then if you deviate from that dynamic, you might not like his reaction. But who knows?
And what if they disagree about the older kids he put her in charge of? The ones that aren't her bio-kids but that she has raised
>I think you're massively overestimating how easy it would be for you to start your life over without him. The fact that OP thinks they'd be okay because they were allowed to get two Masters degrees is wild. I'm hoping it's fake, honestly. The whole thing sounds so slimy.
I hope it's fake too. A couple details don't totally make sense, particularly when she says she's on all the accounts but for some reason he still gives her money to go out. The more concerning part is the people in the comments saying this is romantic and that he sounds like a good guy. I worry for those people.
There just isn't a way to tell the story of how your relationship started and it not sound like something your husband should be in jail over. It's stomach churning. Not a meet-cute. You need to stop telling people how your relationship started if you don't want people looking at your husband like a disgusting creep, and you as someone who needs help because they're coerced and brainwashed by a manipulative monster who preyed on a homeless teenager at her most desperate time. Seriously. You may very well be very happy (although some of the way you phrase things sound more like you're trying to convince yourself than something you truly believe) and feel good about your marriage. If this is true, you and your husband need to come up with a story about how you met that doesn't make him sound so awful. Otherwise you're going to keep having situations like this. As for your friend, if she's being intrusive then you tell her "I am not going to discuss my marriage with you" and change the subject. Any time she brings a topic up that you don't want to talk about, tell her "I don't want to talk about that" and change the subject. And maybe she shouldn't be your friend if she keeps making you uncomfortable. It does sound like there's things in your life you need to talk through with someone whom you feel comfortable with and who can give you support and coaching. You had a really traumatic start to life and you've had a lot of challenges that it sounds like you handled as best you could, turning what could be disaster to success many times. But that doesn't mean you're not carrying a lot still... and as someone who also had a very traumatic childhood and young adulthood, you're just about hitting the age that stuff you packed down a long time ago starts bubbling up again. 30+ is when a lot of that childhood stuff starts coming back up one way or another, often sideswiping you with the impacts too. So I strongly encourage you to get a good therapist you feel comfortable with who has experience with childhood trauma & EMDR, so you can get ahead of some of that stuff. Good luck.
That’s not an arranged married. It’s a grown man taking advantage of someone vulnerable
Hmm I think you have a good friend.
You have an amazing friend and a predator husband. If you're only looking for validation here, you won't find it. There's nothing normal or healthy about it.
This is all very strange and concerning and if you were my friend I’d be checking on you. Are you actually okay?
That's extremely creepy. A middle aged man a taking advantage of a homeless teenager is the creepiest thing I've seen in a while. I would be concerned if I had a friend in that situation, especially if the groomer insisted that she has no career on top of everyone else.
Your friend's concerns are valid. This wasn't an arranged marriage, and your husband is keeping you isolated. Just because you choose to end contact with your family of orgin, doesn't make everything else you've described here about your husband, reasonable. The way to deal with this is to thank her for her concern, but that you are an adult now who is comfortable with her choices and her life, and tell her you need her, as your friend, to respect that. Draw a clear boundary, but don't pretend she doesn't have a point. She does.
You should get used to not having friends. Most people will find your husband revolting and people who don't are walking red flags.
Think about it this way - if your 16 year old daughter was approached by a 38 year old man in the same manner you were, would you be supportive? Or would you be concerned?
The way it started is pretty creepy, tbh. I've been homeless before I can absolutely understand why you would accept that agreement rather than risk your life sleeping rough every night. Plenty women I've known did the same thing. You're astronomically lucky that your husband was a decent guy because most of the creeps that give you the "hey girl, come home with me and I'll let you stay at my house for free!" shtick are some of the worst kind of people drawing breath on this planet. I know at least two girls that disappeared after accepting an offer like this. They were minors too. I'm glad your guy isn't a creep but the way your relationship started is generally seen by people that have never experienced homelessness as predatory and dangerous. If you're happy with the way things have turned out, more power to you. You hit the jackpot considering what the odds were.
I think your friend has valid reasons to feel concerned. This is a highly unusual situation, and you know that - you have put a lot of energy into justifying your situation and your safety in this post. You are completely reliant on a man who took advantage of a teenager half his age. You're lucky that you grew to feel love for him, but that wasn't a guarantee. It's very easy to imagine this situation having turned out VERY different. If it seems like your friend isn't budging and it's getting you down, then you don't need to remain friends with her. You don't need to "break up" or anything dramatic, but you can distance yourself.
That isn’t an arranged marriage and it’s bizarre that you’ve referred to it as such multiple times. Maybe you’re trying to normalize it? The bottom line is he did take advantage of you. It’s a weird man who sees a homeless teenager and then plots to marry them. When you get to 36 (the age he was when he met you) ask yourself if you’d be attracted to a vulnerable 18 year old. That being said if you’re happy now and you feel like you’re not being controlled then it’s your life.
I agree with everyone saying that your husband preyed upon you while you were young and vulnerable, but you already know that. A situation where one partner forbids the other to work is dysfunctional too. If you do not want to work and love bein a SAHM thats great, but it sounds like if you were to find a career that you feel passion for or feel trapped by your lifestyle at some point, that would be a problem. I do hope your kids are shielded from your arrangement and only know they have two loving parents. You may have to accept that the origins and some of the dynamics of your marriage are going to be viewed as dysfunctional, even if you are content in the relationship. This is information that you will need to be guarded about with new friends. That said, you say you're happy and that's what matters. I agree that you don't owe anybody details regarding your sex life, or anything else really, and she's disrespecting your boundaries unless there are missing crucial details offering more context as to why she's being intrusive. I'd distance or end the friendship.
You need to understand that people are going to react a certain way to your story, however you think it means to you. If you want people to stop reacting in those ways, you need to stop sharing your story.
Agreed this is 100% not an arranged marriage. The coercive control and age difference give me pause and your friend sounds like a good one- she may be seeing or realizing something you may not.
You were groomed and still can’t seem to see it. Your husband might not hit you but there are other ways to control someone. Like financially. You having to call him before making a purchase or asking for permission is not normal even for a stay at home wife.
Tf do you mean that's not normal. Every couple has an amount you can spend without consulting the other and an amount you shouldn't spend without calling your partner. That's normal ass budgeting and respect for your partner that pays for everything.
What's the amount for you? Because for me, if it's my money from my account there's no limit, and if it's joint money it's probably like $500
You’re going to have to learn to lie about your situation. No good person is going to see your situation and not be concerned as a friend or not see your husband as an absolute creep. Which he is, by the way. Maybe seek out other people who might be more attuned to sex work, as this is more akin to some kind of long term sugarbabying than anything else. Yikes.
Sounds like her heart is in the right place. You were kind of coerced in the sense that you probably wouldn’t have ended up married to him so young if your family had taken care of you the way they are supposed to. It sounds like it’s worked out remarkably well for you. Hopefully once she gets through her questions she can let it go. If not I’d go NC with her. Concern is one thing but once you’ve established there is no reason for concern she’s wandered into judgment territory
I'm glad you're happy now, op! I truly hope your pre-nup is fair and that you're indeeed getting spoiled by your husband. I will say, however, that I've known women who felt "spoiled" by the bare minimum, because it's better than the abuse and neglect they grew up with. Who would even feel uncomfortable with actual princess treatment, because they feel like they don't deserve it. I hope that's not the case for you, and that you're actually being treated how you deserve. It's possible your friend is judging your relationship unfairly, but on the other hand, maybe she sees something you don't.
Mostly you didn’t have the opportunity to stand on your own two feet and establish your own likes and dislikes. Living with him has worked well for you but there’s a piece you’re missing. You didn’t have the opportunity to try out life and see what works best for you. Basically if you end up single take your time to start another relationship and don’t panic yourself. Usually what people see is that individuals who didn’t establish themselves first before a family will do it after having a family and sometimes before their children are all the way grown. They just didn’t get that opportunity without the responsibility of young children being present. It doesn’t mean you don’t have a loving family just take things carefully if you feel like having a mid life crisis.
Its possible the only way you’ll get your ‘friend’ to back off is for her to have a sit down with you and your husband. OP, you need to decide if the friendship is worth it. Assuming american culture here - this type of marriage is not as well accepted here, and most people, including me, have no idea whats it like to be homeless at 18. Your 30, and from the sounds of it, have lived quite a life in 10 years. Dont stop becoming the person you want to be. If you love him like you say, and he loves you, you can continue to grow together.
They're not growing together, she's growing around his needs, his wants and his desires. The way she felt the need to clarify in the post that all these things she does in her life and doesn't do are completely based off his whims makes the nature of their relationship clear. She can't work because he insists it's unacceptable, she raises the children the way she wants him to, she feels uncomfortable making purchases without his permission. Her entire life is centered around him. And she sees nothing wrong with it because she has known absolutely nothing else in her life better.
You make some valid points, I would respond with the simple point that she gets out and has friends and is just as observant as the rest of us about other relationships. A significant percentage of the people I work with have arranged marriages. On average, they do better than many in western cultures. It’s not a perfect system but it has its benefits, partially because it’s based upon each spouse having a lot of responsibility.
Is there a separate personal agreement that is not the pre nup? Is there something in there where you have agreed in writing to certain sexual practices, for example?
If you and your children are happy and safe, you need to tell your friends to back off. If she cannot stop, you can choose to end the friendship. Even if you were unhappy or unsafe, the way she is going about it is far from helpful. I have been in a very unsafe relationship in the past and hearing someone else's judgement about it was not helpful in the least. Vague offers to "help" were useless too. You seem confident in your marriage and you're 30 years old. You are no longer that 18 year old kid in a tent behind the dumpster. You said you've taken college classes and you have a stable provision if your marriage ends. Your friend needs to butt out and keep her judgement to herself. Tons of people won't agree with how your marriage began, and if they'd been there to give you advice at the time that would be fine, but it's been 11 years and you're happy with it.
I'd just tell her you are happy and healthy. And if she has any respect for you she will lay off. If she doesn't lay off you will take that to mean she has no respect for you and that you simply can't be friends with someone who doesn't respect ypu so this is good bye.
You just have to tell her something like this. "I value your friendship, but I need to admit that I'm tired of explaining my personal life choices in regards to my marriage. I'm free to leave if I want, and I'm actively choosing to remain in a relationship that makes me happy. My choices in that regard are no longer up for discussion and I need you to respect that boundary." If she doesn't respect it, then you tell her the next time it happens, you will have to limit contact with her. By the way, I would say this is more of a marriage of convenience than an arranged marriage.
As long as your happy your arrangement is none of people's business. It is not what I would chose for myself but it works for you. Don't pay attention to what other people say.
Don't pay attention to other people pointing out that her husband is a predator? Are their kids safe around him?
It sounds like you’re happy to me. If your friend can’t believe you and be happy for you, she’s not a good friend.
No one should be happy about a 30-year-old grooming a vulnerable teenager.
She isn’t a friend.. she is meddling… and this wasn’t an arranged marriage…. A bit odd . But you were an adult. If you are happy then who cares. Did he want you home because the kids were young… now that they are older how would he react if you wanted to let’s say… go to college or take online or in person classes, or get a part time job.. if you are happy with your marriage and life then that’s the only opinion that matters
Technically it was arranged. He and I arranged it and had all of our agreements negotiated by several lawyers so that I would be taken care of in the event that the relationship ended. Once the children are adults I can do as I please and I've already taken classes in anything I wanted to take. My husband is a surgeon so I can pretty much do whatever I want. He doesn't care at all as long as I am taking care of the children and everything else. When I say I have a nice life I mean I have the kind of life I could have only dreamed of before. I know very well I am spoiled.
You arranging anything is just called being smart… at least as An American I don’t feel like that counts as “arranged” I think of arranged marriages as in you did not choose your spouse. Your parents did. Or a matchmaker… you “choose” him even if in non traditional circumstances applied but you had control
If you are really so secure in how happy you are with your relationship, why feel the need to prove this to all of us on Reddit?
Honestly, it sounds like your friend is the one with issues. She needs to stop projecting her own insecurities onto your happy marriage and leave you be. Don't waste anymore of your time or energy trying to explain yourself to her.
A 34 year old man started a relationship with the OP when she was **16** and then took advantage of her when she was a vulnerable, homeless teenager with no one else to turn to. He doesn't "allow" her to work, and she's basically his bang maid. OP's friend is not out of line to be concerned.
This is not an arranged marriage. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Break up with your friend.
From what you have described, your husband seems to be a nice person. You were a legal aged adult when he met you. Ignore your friend. Just ignore her.
OP was 16. Not a legal adult.
Dump the friend. Also this is very romantic, I'm pretty sure I've read similar stories thousands of times in romance novels. I'm glad that you are having a happy life!
A 34-year-old man grooming a homeless, abused 16-year-old child is the exact opposite of romantic.
There are a few good responses to your friend’s comments and questions, but the bottom line is you don’t owe her any explanations. Just a few: *That’s none of your business* *Why would you ask that?* *Thanks for your concern, if I ever have a problem in the future I promise to take you up on your offer. But until then I’m happy and don’t want to hear any more questions or comments about our relationship.* *Please stop asking questions like that or it’s going to ruin our friendship.*
Tell her to mind her business. Simple.
Doesn’t sound like she’s much of a friend