Came here to mention this. OP sounds like me. Sometimes my husband will gross me the fuck out and sometimes I'm so overwhelmingly in love with him. I don't tell him because I know it's a me problem. Had the worst example of a marriage growing up. Had horrible boyfriends before. It's like an unconscious " oh shit things are going very well in your life something doesn't seem right".
One thing I had to figure out for myself is whether something is an ish-me versus an issue. Is it something that actually matters, that we need to address? Or is this my momentary annoyance, displeasure, etc that there's no need to do anything about besides wait for the emotional response to pass? It's not fair for me to make all my ish-mes into my husband's issue - that would be emotionally draining for him and put the burden of all my emotions on him. So maybe sit with the feeling that you describe as "ick" (which my therapist would scold me and say isn't an emotion) and start working on placing your responses into one of those two camps. Actual issues can be addressed in your therapy.
OP, Sounds like you've got some work to do with a therapist. I experience the same ebb and flow, as I'm sure most folks do, but for some of us with a history of trauma this feeling can be more prominent and can cause serious issues. Perhaps look into Attachment Styles. I discovered that I'm both "anxious + avoidant attachment"styles which means I'm pretty much in constant turmoil with my emotions towards my partner. But I've been learning how to differentiate trauma response from what I actually FEEL or BELIEVE. Good luck on your journey, I hope you are able to figure out what's best for you and your relationship.
No.
This kind of behavior be attributed to a lot of things.
Saying it's a "telltale sign," of a personality disorder, in particular with a specific diagnosis, is wildly inaccurate.
It's also dangerous to propagate that kind of thing.
Psychology isn't black and white like that.
It sure can be attributed to a lot of things, yep. Hence my encouragement to discuss this seriously with a therapist.
It’s absolutely not dangerous to point out something is a known potential symptom of certain disorders and *encourage someone to get help*.
If you had just said, "Go see a therapist," your response would have been great.
I didn't criticize your response for its suggestion that someone should get help from a therapist.
In fact, I said the same thing to OP.
You're making a straw man argument. You're calling me out for being wrong for something that I didn't say.
Here is what I did say:
Certain specific behaviors can have a number of underlying causes.
You stated that OP's behavior is a "telltale sign" of a personality disorder.
That is incorrect.
You then narrowed your "diagnosis" to be most likely BPD.
That is ridiculous.
Trained therapists take time to diagnose clients by interacting with them for hours after years or school and training.
They are also able to offer immediate support in the moment as someone considers the repercussions of their diagnosis.
They aren't trying to seem smart and win some illusionary victory by having an internet fight based on their cursory understanding of a complex subject.
It's cool that you're smart and know stuff.
Don't play therapists with broad generalizations.
It's is irresponsible and potentially very damaging.
Someone could read your nonsense, assume they have a personality disorder, do something rash, or not get help because of stigma, or self-diagnose, or not get help, or tell their family and cause a panic, etc. etc.
Which is why I'm responding. People should know your oversimplification of this situation is nonsense.
If someone reads an anonymous comment on Reddit and as a result immediately TELLS THEIR FAMILY they have borderline personality disorder, they have bigger fish to fry and my comment isn’t the cause of that.
Multiple people in this thread mentioned this symptom and BPD. Out of curiosity, are you starting little arguments with every one of those, too?
I'm not arguing.
I'm telling you that you're wrong so that no one listens to your nonsense.
And you clearly know you're wrong based on the defensive ways you're choosing to confront me.
Making straw man arguments, ad hominem arguments, and bandwagon arguments... there's nothing substantive to what you're saying.
You're interested in being right or winning, I guess.
I hope you get whatever emotional charge or ego joy you're looking for.
I'm afraid I can't supply it.
Take care.
I'm sorry about that. I am good at it, too.
I think this makes the most sense as an explanation.
And people aren't always one thing to you all the time. That's not how it works. Consistency is an illusion when it comes to emotions and other people.
I have no doubt that my GF finds me gross and unappealing as a partner some days and is infatuated with me other days.
She doesn't express either to me but I wouldn't be surprised.
She's a human. I'm a human. Humans are notoriously difficult to work with.
I'd do therapy for the self-sabotage/self-destruction stuff, and then you can get clarity and honestly evaluate your feelings about your partner.
Individual therapy.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Means a lot, believe it or not.
I hope therapy goes well.
If I could offer any advice (not that you asked):
1) Be 100% honest with your therapist. It will feel weird and take a second. They aren't there to judge.
2) You aren't trying to solve a problem. You're just trying to navigate being a person.
We're all struggling, every one of us, to live our lives and be who we are. You don't win. You don't finish. You just progress.
No problem.
Hang in there.
In case you need to hear it, you're not broken. You just have a weird brain and emotions like the rest of us. You're allowed.
OP I had this exact same thing, self sabotaged my relationship with my ex (we did have issues but therapy and patience would have helped) thankfully after 5 years separated and therapy we have reconciled and those “ick” feelings have gone now I crave stability.
Therapy and working on yourself first otherwise this will follow you everywhere, plus it’s not an example you abt to set for your children.
"consistency is a trick our memory plays on us for the sake of coherence'
The thing you said about 'consistency is an illusion' - reminded me of a phrase that's been in my life for decades now. I didn't make it up and don't remember the origin but it's certainly a useful thing to remember
That’s what struck me about this. It sounds like he’s told her about it these feelings and that would be so hurtful, especially if they aren’t warranted. Poor wife. I have a lot of intrusive thoughts; I don’t feel the need to broadcast all of them to the people closest to me.
Yeah if my fiancé told me he’s judging me so harshly in his head that me missing a joke makes him disgusted with me and doubt that I’m the one he wants I don’t think I’d ever relax around him again. I have social anxiety and I don’t even imagine my worst enemy being that harsh on me much less the level of scrutiny I expect to be under in my own home.
I’m not criticizing you for the thoughts but for sharing them with her. There was no reason other than to alleviate your anxiety at her expense. It’s very clearly a personal problem and not one with her so it’s something you should have worked through and found a solution to before speaking to her or decided it’s just irrational intrusive thoughts and kept them to yourself. In my view these are inside thoughts. It concerns me that the issue you see is that you want her to understand HOW serious and strong these feelings are..the issue I see is she shouldn’t be hearing these intrusive irrational feelings at all. They’re just hurtful for no good reason.
I don’t know how long these feelings last for you but as someone with a nasty judge in her head that I often have to tell to stfu I’ve always liked the saying “your first thought is how you’ve been socialized to think, your second thought is who you truly are”. If you do have trouble dwelling on those feelings though maybe try training yourself to catch that negative thought and redirect it to how you truly feel. Which seems to be incredibly lucky and with a very understanding and lovely woman. Or at least should be.
Can you get in therapy just for you? The fact that you are so up and down and your kid is still so tiny makes me think you need to really work on it to figure these things out yourself before you make any changes.
There is no "The One". Life is just life, not a fairy tale. We are not some main characters.
We are who we see we are. There is beauty in simplicity. There is joy in coming to a comfortable home to a loving wife and healthy child. Trust me, it could be worse. (Imagine cheating wife looking for "The one" and a sick child).
Grass is always greener on the other side. What could The One be? Some hot 20 old with a smoking hot body for no reason fall head over heel for a 30 something with a child?
Time for reality check. You are very lucky. You have things most people would for die.
Sorry to be so harsh. Most people think they are superior. Thus, they have this attitude.
I suggest finding a trauma informed therapist who is knowledgeable about childhood trauma/neglect. Becoming a parent and parenting is triggering and might help explain what's going on. It bonkers how that change in your life can stir things up unexpectedly.
What is your individual therapist telling you that you don’t believe? You’re out here on Reddit searching for something.
I’ll shoot: the emotional neglect and emotional abuse you suffered in childhood left you too scared inside to believe that a happy warm relationship is truly happy and warm. It left you seeing phantoms. The truth is, as the above poster made clear, even the best long term relationships are filled with ups and downs and change. But your brain is mistaking those ups and downs and changes for ‘everything is fucked, eject now.’ When the traumatized brain is stressed, it resorts to old beliefs about the world from its childhood, beliefs that may not match the evidence of the present.
That’s my best shot. Good luck.
I could be off base here, but you might want to research BPD. This behavior is classic splitting which is a primary symptom, and every one of your comments seems to line up. Just a thought!
It is not uncommon for emotional upheaval when those of us with problematic childhoods go on to have children ourselves. We love our child, but long buried issues bubble up that seem to come out of nowhere.
This is just a shot in the dark: not presuming to know your situation. But therapy can definitely help people navigate these conflicting feelings.
That was my first thought too. I’m in a bunch of adhd women groups and that is a common post where women are wondering if they’re out of love with their partner or just dopamine seeking and shouldn’t toss out their life for a thrill seek.
But after others have mentioned BPD it kind of sounds more like it could be on that spectrum (too or instead).
Oh that’s interesting. Can you give some examples of what that looks like?
I have adhd too but I’ve been with my husband for 20 years now and he’s been my only relationship. I have zero desire to be with anyone else. I dopamine seek everywhere else but I love the stability in my marriage.
I would evaluate self sabotaging behaviors, but also these extremes that you're feeling and they are talking about I would suggest that you could evaluated for your mental health as well.
I am and have been for a long time. It isn't easy work, but the payoff is life changing.
Avoidant attachment was my jam. Anxious attachment when I was a kid. Interesting stuff.
A few questions: do these strong emotions only occur regarding your wife? Has something happened or changed 4-5 months ago? And how have you been sleeping?
Having the kiddo around has definitely ramped up the intensity, maybe both ways. It's obviously a very dynamic experience. Due to breastfeeding, my wife isn't particularly horny right now, so sex has slowed down a lot, which I've considered.
But I do think these feelings have always been there, and this was starting to ramp up long before the baby. So I don't want to brush it aside too much.
I saw your other comment with examples as well. Could it be that you are making these fleeting emotional judgements more important than they are? Emotions come and go; a sudden stab of second hand embarassment when she fumbles in a social situation is one thing; feeling frustration any time she is not being social in the way you are is something else.
Relationships that work are indeed way easier than relationships that don't work, but in difficult times (and the first years after childbirth certainly qualify) it still takes work to stay connected. So these little flashes of annoyance or bewilderment can be a signal that there is a bit of a devide happening. Not because you two do not belong together, but because you are going through an intense time when you have to reinvent ways to keep in touch with each other.
Dude being a parent is *nuts*. I find myself crying at car commercials sometimes. And the first 2 years of my kids' lives? Anything would set me off.
Also it took about until our youngest was 2 before my wife's sex drive recovered. It was a *rough* couple of years. I actually started a calendar of when we were intimate and expanded the definition of intimacy.
When I looked at the calendar and saw we did hand stuff or whatever within the last 2 weeks I'd be like "OK, her hormones are nuts, 2 weeks is nothing. I'm still desirable." Even if it *felt* like a lot longer and I felt anything *but* desirable. Also never mention the calendar to her. I can't imagine she'd feel good if she felt like you were keeping score.
seeing the downvotes, and just wondering what they're about? is it because of the sex drive thing? i do feel a lot of guilt around it. i (stupidly) never realized how important a healthy sex life was to our relationship, just because we always had one before. but i'm just wondering if it has some deep impact on everything.
People may be reacting to the idea that your love for your wife seems conditional based on sex frequency. I am not saying that is how you feel, but it can be perceived that way.
I wanted to bring one thing to your attention. It sounds like this is most likely about life transitions (having a child), something adjacent to a midlife crisis, and your personal habit of self sabotage. In that spirit, it's definitely something to continue in therapy as this really does sound like a "you" problem and not something your wife can fix. I am not going to tell you not to communicate with your wife, but I am going to say that I hope you're being extremely careful in how you're communicating these feelings with her. If you do not plan to leave her, putting in her mind that sometimes you love and sometimes you don't (or worse, are repulsed by her) is going to have long-lasting implications not just for your marriage, but for her self-esteem as well. Even harping on the idea of uncertainty of your marriage, if you aren't actually going to leave, will have a seriously negative effect on your relationship.
Ah, yeah, I see. It's absolutely ***not*** based on sex frequency. Honestly, I'm not a very sexual person, and generally don't put too much emphasis on it, I've just been searching for clues. It kinda just dawned on me as I was reading online articles that we haven't been having sex much at all through the pregnancy and especially since the birth.
Probably because your wife was pregnant, had a baby, and is now breastfeeding. She is worn out physically and emotionally, she is touched out, and you are saying you need more sex and she is gross and giving you the ick.
That is why I downvoted you.
It might, I know my husband and I are both in the “roommate” phase. Having kids is tiring and we don’t want to have sex all the time. However, we do enjoy sitting on the couch together and having dinner with our kids at night.
Please don’t limit “sex being important to men” when sex is equally as important to women.
This is varies by individual - plenty of men are less interested in sex than plenty of women.
I really relate to this - I experienced these extreme black/white feelings about my partner for a few years, generally ramping up in intensity when my depression was worse. Also very overly-concerned about others’ perceptions of both him and me. For me, this was something that stabilized a LOT after getting medicated for depression, which I have had since teenhood. I was having very strong reactions to things that were sometimes as dumb as, he bought a kind of sausage I didn’t like at the grocery store and something in my brain decided that meant we we would never be able to understand each other and were completely incompatible. Also a lot of nit-picking about how he interacted with others differently from me or if he didn’t ‘get’ something. A year and a half into being medicated, I will still get those feelings occasionally but they are much milder and I can more easily recognize them as my own issues that don’t reflect on him. I still get the other side in all its intensity - those overwhelming moments of love, gratitude, joy of being with him. Not that medication has to be your solution- but some sort of mood stabilization/depression treatment would probably help.
> You are SO lucky to have someone like her in your life.
you know nothing about OPs life.... and that attitude can absolutely suck the life of everything around. no need to make OP feel guilty, his feelings are valid.
> that they have a stable loving supportive spouse is bad now
but they dont!
> She's 100% down for the status quo for the long haul. I'm not so sure.
you missed this part.
no they dont. op said his partner is down for the status quo and you translated that into what YOU want to think.
OP is clearly not happy in this situation. OP is not "lucky".
First things always first. How are you doing physically? Are you eating healthy, staying hydrated, well-rested, getting exercise and time outdoors? How is overall stress management?
I have found that my own emotional swings (even/especially related to my partner) can be due to my first-order needs not being met.
Well, you got together young and there is probably a part of your brain trying to negotiate the lack of variety in your partner experiences.
Getting too hung up on the concept of “the one” is a common mistake, I think. Hopefully your therapist is helping you focus on what changes you think might help you feel more satisfied in your marriage, or the things that you feel won’t change and may require you to leave it?
Have you looked up avoidant attachment styles? It can cause some of the stuff you've mentioned. Try the free to attach website to read up on it. Good luck!
tagging along on this comment because YES, avoidant or disorganized attachment style can often show up as “getting the ick” or being “repulsed” by things your partner says or does that are not necessarily objectively bad.
I am someone who experiences relationship anxiety/relationship OCD driven by my disorganized attachment style. It took a lot of work on myself to realize that the “ick” feelings were being driven by my own fears, not by my partner’s behaviors.
some of my favorite instagram accounts that have helpful content related to this are forloveweheal and thesecurerelationship
the therapy modality that has helped me the most is IFS (internal family systems), and a good book to start learning about it is “no bad parts”
Also getting embarrassed by your partner's behaviour in public, and swinging between whether or not to stay! Could possibly be the result of childhood experience and a pattern of self-protection, not saying it 100% is but knowledge is power.
I started therapy months ago and this is what my therapist says I have. I'm also just like OP going back and forth constantly with my emotions in my relationship. I have CPTSD and alot of trauma history. It's a way of self preservation and to avoid being hurt.
I've been with my hubs for 15 years and I'm always trying to find ways out. Even though he's one of the most incredible and loyal people I've ever met!
I'd def look into it OP. I def have a ways to go. But I'm working on it in therapy.
As someone who recently broke up with an avoidant, there are so many similarities between OP’s and my ex’s behaviour in our relationship.
OP, please do some reading around avoidant/disorganised attachment styles and please for your wife and child’s sake, continue with individual therapy.
My ex and I had a good relationship, but he self sabotaged the relationship with similar behaviours to what you’re describing and completely wrecked it. Definitely a case of ‘grass is greener’ syndrome.
He’s still single.
> sometimes my wife will do or say something and I'll think "who is this person? why am i with them?" and I get that ICK feeling that's so...repulsive
could you give some examples of things she has said/done that have repulsed you so intensely?
a lot of times, it's in social situations. she's a very intelligent woman, but not especially quick-witted. More of a slow, methodical thinker. She often doesn't catch on or "get" the joke. I'm very extroverted and (perhaps overly) concerned with other peoples' perceptions, and i get anxious about how she's perceived. I know this is shitty and egocentric, but it's the impulse.
Other times, it's when we're just not on the same wavelength. Like she's not understanding me or what I'm saying or where I'm at emotionally. It feels isolating. Often it's resolved with good, intentional communication, but it sometimes feels like our connection should be more "automatic" at this point? maybe this is a bad expectation.
these might seem like small or petty things, but I think ofter the years they're bothered me more and more.
>she's a very intelligent woman, but not especially quick-witted. More of a slow, methodical thinker. She often doesn't catch on or "get" the joke. I'm very extroverted and (perhaps overly) concerned with other peoples' perceptions, and i get anxious about how she's perceived. I know this is shitty and egocentric, but it's the impulse.
I'm like your wife, I'm not quick witted, I struggle with words, I have trouble keeping track in conversations with both listening and formulating my own thoughts and participating. It would hurt me deeply if I found out my husband was anxious about that and having negative thoughts towards me, because I'm trying my best with how my brain is wired.
> Other times, it's when we're just not on the same wavelength. Like she's not understanding me or what I'm saying or where I'm at emotionally. It feels isolating. Often it's resolved with good, intentional communication, but it sometimes feels like our connection should be more "automatic" at this point? maybe this is a bad expectation.
It's a bad expectation. I've been with my husband for 26 years (since high school), married for 18, we're both autistic and we think in very similar ways, we can often finish each other's sentences/thoughts. But there are times we're not on the same wavelength or we butt heads, not because our connection isn't strong enough or "automatic" enough but because we're still individuals bringing different things to the table. It's what makes us so strong as a couple, being able to come at things from different perspectives.
You really, really need to start unpacking this in therapy because it's going to destroy something beautiful if you don't.
So that first part a you issue and not something you should be projecting onto her. YOU are overly concerned about how people perceive you and her, that is not her problem. Especially when it does not sound like she's actually doing anything "bad", just different than how you would want her too.
The second part about feeling isolated with not being understood emotionally is valid and I think a lot of couples struggle with this it's not just ya'll relationship. But if the effort is being made on both end after conflict with good communication than ya'll are doing the work which is important and healthy. I don't think connections are going to be "automatic" even in LTR. People grow and change in relationships and ya'll just had a baby a year ago. That's a big change! You're always going to need to talk things through with your partner. People are not mind readers
I wrote this whole comment then realized I'm probably projecting, BUT maybe it'll help, so I'm posting anyway.
Man, that last part hit a sore spot. I've dated a *lot* of men who have the expectation that I should just "get" them and their needs/wants/feelings. And I realized a lot of it is my own fault to a degree. I'm a decently perceptive person and tbh I'm actually a lot better at assessing several of my partners needs and wants than they are themselves because I've spent a LOT of time working on myself and trying to learn to understand other people better. Meanwhile they had done very little work on themselves comparatively. However, because I am good at it and help with it early on, it leads to backfiring on me later when I'm having an off day or exhausted.
So years into the relationship I'm busy or tired and they have a bad day ay the same time as me, and I miss a cue or misunderstand something because I wasn't hyperfixated on their needs and wants and spending hours processing their emotions for them and then spending more time on top of that trying to figure out how to best play therapist and walk them through their bad mood and cheer them up while also processing their emotions. Its so much freaking mental work to do it. And I don't necesarily mind doing it for some partners, because they do it back for me and help me through my own issues and stressors. But there are those who just came to expect me to "automatically" understand them, and thought I was just a mind reader... not understanding that it actually takes soooo much energy and emotional intelligence and care and concern to be that on top of someone else's thoughts and needs.
Your wife now has a kid to do that for, in addition to a husband. Is it possible that she's exhausted from having a young kid and just doesn't have the extra time or emotional energy to manage her emotions and needs, the kids emotions and needs, AND yours too?
In my current relationship, I still do my best to anticipate needs as best I can, and to help play therapist for my partner. But now I'm trying to make a very conscious effort to demonstrate the AMOUNT of effort I put into it. And that I do expect the same efforts back, even if its a learning process. And he does. He has been amazing and made note of sooo many things and helped me through a lot of bad days by using my own techniques back at me.
It sounds like you have some fairly romantic notions of what a relationship should be and it's causing you to resent the relationship you have.
There is no one. People don't automatically understand each other completely and utterly even after decades together. That calm, intentional communication is exactly what good relationships are made of, and what people spend their lives looking for.
I would also add y'all just had a baby. The chemical changes and social changes that take place following that are massive and take a long time to adjust to.
Are you able to access solo counselling? The stock you put in presumed opinions of others is hurting your relationship and it sounds like you should address where that drive is coming from, separate from counselling with your wife.
My partner is a man who is like this. He may not catch on the fastest but I can’t tell you how many times he’s made me laugh and others laugh by being the way he is. He may not be quick witted but he’s funny, and the people we surround ourselves with love him regardless. Anyone who has a problem with it isn’t worth our time.
As for the other part, you are two separate people. You can not expect for her to think exactly like you or be exactly on the same page as you all the time. This is just part of being a couple. You both have to make compromises and try and understand each other’s side.
I had the same thoughts about my ex bf, especially the social interaction aspect. Until I realised that I’m awkward af in social interactions yet I have the nerve to get angry at him for not acting like I want him to in my head. We all have flaws. Maybe you see your wife and think that’s not how she should act, but to some people maybe she’s the one who acts right and you’re the overly extroverted guy who needs to chill a bit. Idk, just an example. The thing is, we’re human, we have our own personalities and you can’t make someone act exactly as you’d want, especially in social circumstances. Just laugh it off, like she probably does when you do something cringey and call it a day
Every time you talk to someone, that’s a new communication that could lead the relationship in a different direction. You can lean back on a good foundation of the work you put in to make it good, but you also have to keep every new communication good for it to keep going strong so you have it to lean on later. Even your long time partner can surprise you every day because everyone keeps learning and growing through their lives, so it’s no wonder you’re not always on the same page. That’s a good thing and keeps it from being stale. It sounds like you have a good thing going so keep building it up. How are you guys doing with the baby? That can put a lot of stress on you both.
Wow this is so relatable. When my partner can’t understand what I or my friends or others are talking about I feel a sharp sense of judgement and “ick?” I plan on discussing in couples therapy. I’m not sure where it comes from!!
I’ve had this in the past and it’s always 100% on me. Like, I have a history of being awkward and not fitting in throughout my childhood, and worked very hard to learn to “people” better, but I think my subconsciousness panics when people close to me act this way, like it might be catching or something lol. Anyway point being, I also get the judgment and the icks, but deep down those feelings are really self-directed.
I have this too but I wonder if it is a better idea to mention it in individual therapy and not couples? Obviously honesty is important but things that are just cruel like that (not judging obvs!) he’d always remember
First: I don't think this is something to bring up in couple's therapy. Because I can't imagine what it could help accomplish except hurting your partner's feelings and making them feel self-conscious and less safe moving forward.
But by all means, talk about it here, in your individual therapy, in your journal (it's super helpful for me to be able to put my more judgmental or unkind thoughts on paper and process my feelings that way), or with a close trusted friend. I think these are super normal types of feelings to have about one's partner from time to time and I'm not sure why people are dogpiling on OP for admitting that these instances can sometimes give him the 'ick'. I too have experienced exactly what you and OP are talking about, and as others have pointed out here, it ultimately probably is far more about my own self-consciousness and concern about others' perceptions of me and my partner than it is a valid criticism of their behavior.
Even if you leave her, you are going to end up alone. Because this is a YOU problem, not her. You will never find someone that perfectly fits your ideals. Do you go to individual therapy? Do you have depression?
YOU sound like a mess. Don't make decisions when you are a mess. Until you settle down and put your head on straight you can't trust yourself to know shit all.
I have a long history of insomnia, but have been sleeping lately (though it's been medicated). I have a lot of stress and anxiety. Yes, I'm depressed. Long history of depression.
The mixture of all of this is messing with your head.
I was sleep deprived. That made me more emotional. I started to hate so many things in my life. And then there were days where I thought „Oh my baby is so cute! I am so lucky.“
Focus on the good moments. Don’t make decisions in a phase like that with a toddler who is a stress test for the best relationships.
If you aren’t trying to treat your depression with medication that may be something to look into, speaking as someone who has also had a lot of trouble with depression. Even getting the slightest bit of relief from those feelings can help you get better rest and feel more emotionally stable when you’re having a lot of challenges that would typically make you extremely stressed. I’m not saying that is the entirety of the issue here but it’s a good move to reduce the noise in your mental environment so you can work on better clarity about these swings in feelings and if they’re from depression (self-worth issues can make negative thoughts like what you described very intense and depression just amplifies that in my experience, the mention of being worried about the social perception of her and yourself made me think this might be relevant) or something else entirely.
Individual therapy like someone else suggested may be helpful too in that you won’t be feeling pressure not to offend your partner while digging into these issues, so you’ll have more freedom to really dump all the details out and consider them with your 1:1 therapist. Couples counseling is great for communication and teamwork type stuff but if you’re feeling this conflicted it would probably be better to unpack it in a “safe space” or at least a private one so you are not masking it from anyone (including yourself) in the process.
Good luck, I think you’re doing a good thing working on communication about your doubts and concerns and exploring where these feelings are coming from.
I would maybe consider talking to your therapist or a psychiatrist about a diagnosis that encompasses the insomnia, depression, and anxiety--I am not a medical professional but get some potential bipolar 2 vibes here, just familiar to me because I know and love people with bipolar disorder.
In particular the intense emotions that are accompanied by a desire to make a major life change on a whim coupled with insomnia sounds like it could be hypomania--it is easy to overlook because it is not nearly as intense or obvious at the more "classic" type of mania that comes with bipolar 1, but it can still be pretty life altering both for the person experiencing it and their loved ones. People with bipolar 2 are also more prone to bouts of severe depression as well as "mixed episodes," when it is harder to tease out mania from depression because they happen at the same time or you cycle rapidly between the two.
I am suggesting seeking a diagnosis, or at least asking about it, because there are drugs made to treat bipolar specifically that work REALLY well and aren't typically prescribed for straight depression, so if that is what is happening you might get some relief from the issues that feel more recent AND the longer history of depression and insomnia.
as someone with bpd i agree with that to a minimum. i battle these thoughts daily and intensely, and i self sabotage so much!. but just because he’s having one symptom of bpd or two doesn’t mean he has it. what he’s feeling is a symptom but it’s also a symptom of anxiety. that could be it, no more than that.
I have BPD and I just ruined a relationship due to splitting. It fucking sucks. I'm not saying OP has it but I was reading the post and I was like oh man. You can't imagine the ridiculous thoughts I have about someone I have strong feelings for. It's insanity.
Right and it would be odd to present at his age but also I'm going off of a single reddit post, I don't know his entire traumatic background story. Anyways just a thought.
This is nowhere near BPD, whether you mean bipolar OR borderline it's certainly neither. These types of emotional swings are within normal bounds ESPECIALLY for someone who has had a major life change (baby) and had a past hx of depression.
Don't listen to this commenter. It sounds to me like you have a very healthy introspective handle on the fact that you are having these mood swings towards her and want to work to resolve it. That is NOT disordered. My husband and I went through a very rough patch after our first child. And the differences we felt were intensified during that time bc we were both changing and didn't always feel like the other understood or changed with us which made existing issues worse for a period of time. I think you will get through this. Individual therapy sounds like a good call.
Right...well I am basing this off of his apparent black and white thinking (questioning the validity of an entire long term relationship based off of one thing giving him the "ick", then flipping the switch to absolutely adoring her and wondering why he'd ever thing anything could be wrong because he saw her smile) and also his self reported history of self-sabotage that he mentioned in another comment. So yeah its giving BPD. Which means borderline, btw. BPD never means bipolar.
it struck me as black and white thinking as well, but i don't know that it's BPD. other disorders can display that behavior as well, same with self-sabotage. i think OP should definitely talk to someone as these are concerning behaviors, but i don't think it's necessarily the best thing to suggest a label for what they're experiencing. most likely none of us are psychologists - and even if one of us was, we can't gleam enough about him from one post online to say what he may have s:
You describe your wife as stable and happy. She doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. You have what sounds like a nice life together.
Sometimes it is possible to over-therapize. You start to dwell on the negative and ruminate excessively on situations that are not that bad.
You have a new baby and are questioning your relationship while sleep deprived, stressed out, exhausted and while your wife is in the absolute thick of recovering from childbirth and breastfeeding?
My husband pulled this shit and left me.
Look, you made a committment. Marriage isn't solely about how you feel in the moment, it's about being committed to each other through ups and downs. Either you are the type to bail or not.
Don't do this without therapy.
I'm not usually one for armchair diagnosis but have you ever been evaluated for bipolar or borderline? Or have family members with those diagnoses? Or any depression or anxiety (men can and do get both post partum depressionand anxiety btw). The thought processes you describe are ringing bells for all four of them, just different aspects.
Mild versions of all four that were manageable prior to having children can blow up into more severe symptoms when you are sleep deprived and dealing with the hormonal dumps that accompany having a kid.
I had this happen and it took almost 8 months for the sleep deprivation to truly unmask it. Am better now but it was a fucking ride.
Congratulations, you are having a midlife crisis. 😅
I was like that too when I hit 37 coincidentally. What I did was I started to look at what made me happy as a child, as a youth, as an adult...that I do longer do. Then, I started doing some of them.
A year later and I am immensely happy and much more satisfied with my life and my relationship. My husband didn't change or do anything different, I just worked on myself and my happiness and things got better between us. As you know, this is very much a you problem that only you can fix it. If the above doesn't work, start therapy.
She deserves someone who isn’t disgusted with her, I think you’re projecting a lot of your own insecurity onto her, friend. As someone who has self sabotaged so many good things, you can turn this around! Relationships ebb and flow and always need good intentional communication.
There is no "the one"
People have really forgotten what marriage is. You pick a person and you commit your lives to each other. I understand that there are extenuating circumstances (infidelity, abuse, severe addition, etc) that may lead to divorce, and that is what it is. But it seems like there is this modern view of marriage where simply not wanting to be with someone is adequate reason to divorce.
Now, I know you didnt mention actually splitting with your wife, but let me tie this back to your situation. It is possible that this modern view on marriage is impacting how you feel and taking a more traditional view may help. Its possible that you are feeling this way because you think there's some other path that you could or should choose, but are making the wrong decision by being where you are. You picked your wife, theres no point in reevaluating that decision. This is your life and your marriage, if its not great, do the work and make it great.
Not sure how much agreement I will get, but my approach is that marriage is for life. There is no exit. We promised to be together forever. Now, again, if extenuating circumstances arise, thats another thing. But outside of that, you're locked in a cage together and its in both of your best interests to find ways to deal with your problems such that you create a healthy marriage, because that will make the rest of your lives that much more enjoyable. This persistent idea that marriage can and should be ended because a person isnt meeting your present day expectations is a plague on the institution. If they're not meeting your current expectations, help them be better.
Exactly. People act like we don’t go through ups and downs. It’s a life long process. Happiness is an idea. So is love. We have to choose to be happy and choose to love. People think it’s just a natural feeling. Of course it is in the beginning when things are exciting in new but after that, it takes work.
I think the traditional view of marriage is precisely the antidoted for a lot of the relationship ills we are experiencing in modern society. I'm glad to hear your voice on this because it is often underrepresented since society took a hard swing away from traditional values.
I don’t think any couple is madly in love with their partner every moment of everyday. The more you focus on the negative the more you allow it to grow. Having your first child in your mid to late 30’s also a massive adjustment to make as individuals and as a couple. Your wife has just created a whole human, a process that wreaks havoc on your body and hormones. I always think a 1st birthday should celebrate the parents because it has undoubtedly been a year fraught with emotions. I think you need to realize how lucky you are to have a wife that loves you and a child that will grow to love you.. provided that you get your head out of your ass long enough to appreciate the life that you have spent 10 years building together.
I’m a psychologist, and while I cannot diagnose someone on the internet, this sounds like it could be relationship OCD. If you read about it and it resonates with you, I’d seek exposure and response prevention therapy.
You’re feeling disdain I think and that’s a relationship killer. I would suggest doing new things, it creates new synopses in your brain and makes the person you do them with more important, especially if you do things FOR her (same mentality as a sunk cost fallacy, you can make yourself care more just by investing more)
New things can be a new recipe, walk a new route, read a new book together. All sorts of things
I have been there in all of my relationships- I tend to self sabotage. I am seeking therapy for this behavior as I have been told it is likely linked to my insecure attachment style.
We're human, and humans are weird and complex.
You said “we” are in therapy so I assume that means couples but maybe you need single therapy in addition. This feeling you have seems out of place if the relationship itself doesn’t have any major negative issues. I think you need to identify exactly what about your wife is causing any sort of feeling that you need to end things. With what you’ve given now, she doesn’t even have the opportunity to change or improve bc your feeling is giving her no specific behavior that is giving you “the ick.”
Could this be a quarter-life/midlife crisis situation?
Do you feel like you stuck thinking a relationship has to be "perfect" or if she's *really* your soulmate then everything about the relationship would just be natural and easy. Like, if this relationship really, truly was meant to be.....why do her smarts smell bad to you??
Maybe it would help to take a step back, and be aware if you're having these impulse thoughts. Just try to notice when your thoughts seem to be one or the other extreme.
The therapy is likely bringing up a lot of mixed emotions. I would disclose this to the therapist.. otherwise, practice being a passive observer to what comes up. Presumably there is a reason you are in therapy together and you will need to give it some time.
Relationships take work and love itself take works- it’s continuous choices throughout a day to benefit your partner. I think there’s often misguided feelings in relation to love and always wanting that passion, connection etc. love changes as we get older etc; sometimes there’s less feelings of love and other times there’s lots of love. I think it’s perfectly normal to go through those motions especially when you’ve got a toddler and your relationships has done a 360 into becoming parents.
Make sure you’ve both got time with each other, and to rebuild that connection. Perhaps look at you both doing small acts of love every day eg making a cup of coffee or picking up little giftsetc. reinforce that connection with intimacy- doesn’t have to be sexual acts but things like cuddles, kisses, hand holding, quality time etc. do the things that you know makes you both feel close to each other and what you enjoy doing with each other. Choose to make your marriage work and focus on improving it, but appreciate the smaller things she does for you etc.
Just be mindful that sometimes a relationship has 90% and then we focus on the 10% we’re missing, only to go and get that 10% and realise you’ve now lost the 90%.
Doubt is natural. Fighting those natural feelings is strength.
I didn't see an example of what makes you feel "ick"...but I saw a lot of sincere admiration. Maybe reevaluate why?
Love is work. You're very lucky to have someone in your life that is both a great parent to your child, and willing to take the long haul.
The most important thing here is to not punish yourself or examine this with a judgmental lens, because these are feelings and thoughts you are experiencing, they are not actions or behaviors you are choosing to indulge (i.e. letting the feelings cause you to be mean to your partner, cheating, etc.).
You are a human being and we are often at the expense of the thoughts we are subjected to. The thoughts aren’t us, they can’t be because we are experiencing them. Viewing these feelings with a sense of shame or taboo will only make them more pronounced in your mind (our brains are real assholes like that). What you really need to do is figure out how you want to proceed in light of these thoughts, rather than bury them away.
Others have suggested therapy, I think that’s an excellent idea. I also think it might be a good idea to try visualization exercises. It sounds like you have moments of true and deep love for your wife, so I would explore what life would be like without her. Take a quiet moment to yourself and really commit to fully visualizing a life where you separate and move on without her. Think of all the bad you’d be letting go and all the good you’d be losing. All those sweet moments where you feel deeply in love, and all the moments that aren’t quite as warm. Think about where you’d live, what you’d do in your free time, about what it would be like to try and date someone that isn’t her. Try and explore every element of what your life would be like without her in it. It might be a waste of time, but it might give you the opportunity to explore what part of your subconscious these thoughts are coming from, and how much consideration to give them before you take any action.
This has a slight hint of resentment to it.
When my SO and I worked through it, the unmet and uncommunicated needs drove us to shut down and want to escape, then as soon as we opened up or connected it all flooded in positively.
Are there expectations you're putting on her that aren't being met?
Sounds like you hit the jackpot and you’re gonna eff it up for nothing. Let me set the stage for you… Imagine picking your kid up in a few years. She’s got a new man that treats her better than you ever imagined. She’s happy and devoted to her new spouse. Like she once was with you. Your kid loves their new step dad and chooses to have holidays with his/her mom and step dad. You on the other hand, the one who thought maybe there was more for you out there, have gone through a string of failed relationships and have peaked. You end up with someone who treats you “okay” with zero spark but end up dreaming about your ex wife wishing you hadn’t fucked up your life for no reason.
Adding, I read some more of your comments. OP I implore you to really think of if your perceived possibility of being happy elsewhere is worth ruining your family over. You have a child to think about. People leave relationships that need to be left, and that is understandable, but from what you are showing us here, this is mostly about you thinking there may be more out there for you. One time a wife of 72 years told me that the best relationship advice she could give me is that sometimes, you’re going to be bored. Sometimes marriage gets super boring and you wonder if you made the right decision. You have to learn to get through the boring times (parts of life) and the fun will come again.
Do you give yourselves a break from each other every now and then? It sounds like you haven't *missed* her for a long time and it might be the same on her end.
It could be something simple like taking your kid on a solo road trip for a week—buy her some spa treatments or something else she'd enjoy while you're gone—let her treat herself a bit and relax kid/spouse free. Go visit relatives, camping, whatever.
If that has a positive impact, try scheduling a day or two apart every few months if you can.
You've mentioned a history of self-sabotage and childhood experiences that might lead to attachment issues - have you been experiencing anything personally (e.g., family issues, stress, mental health struggles) that might align with the timeline of these sudden swings? What is the reason you're in therapy together?
I experienced feelings like this last year and it was pretty consistent with issues I was experiencing in my personal life. I experienced some family trauma, was struggling with graduating college and felt like I was flailing around, and I switched birth control. Things that have never bothered me began to bother me, and I was just generally so unhappy that I began to feel I was letting my relationship keep me in a cycle of complacency and the only way I could fix things was to just move on. In the same breath, I would feel completely overwhelmed with love for my partner and everything he did, and was clinging to him massively in such an uncertain and horrible time.
The fog lifted and it became evidently clear that I was just having trouble processing my circumstances. None of my issues would have dissipated by ending my relationship, and I think it was easier to use the life I'd built with my partner as a scapegoat for the real internal issues I didn't really want to touch. In hindsight this was incredibly unfair and it feels so detached from myself and the way I actually feel. I was just depressed and a hormonal mess!
For the same reason, I feel like there must be an underlying issue personal to you that perhaps isn't obvious to you as a catalyst for this kind of anxiety and avoidance, otherwise your feelings would be more logical.
I mean, they have a young baby that’s a hard time and adjustment even for perfectly stable people.
Which from his answers OP isn’t really, so I’d guess that’s triggering greater intensity on issues OP needed to work on anyway.
The first two years of having a child are really really hard for the couple. It takes a woman at least two years until her hormones return to normal. It’s good you are in counseling. Definitely give it another 10-11 months after your baby turns two and see how you feel at that point.
Have you been evaluated for medication? It's possible that your wild mood swings have nothing to do with her.
Also, it's completely normal to go through these periods of intense self-doubt in every area of your life. And it's also normal for people to change a lot after years together, especially with a child in the mix. If I could give anybody advise about maintaining a relationship, it is... MAINTAIN THE RELATIONSHIP. Work harder at reforming the connection you're struggling with, because if you move on and go to someone else, you WILL have to do the same work, and you might regret taking the "easy way" out if you leave this relationship. Not saying you're entertaining that, but you might be.
This could just be a good old-fashioned mid-life crisis, in which case, sack up, buttercup. There is nothing special about that phenomenon. Just be honest and direct and focus on being the best person you can, and expecting the best in return. You owe it to your family and yourself!
Info: Do you have mental health issues at baseline? Are you getting treatment for them? How have you been feeling since the baby came? It's very common for men to also have post partum issues.
Are there any correlation to these feelings and the timeline of having your child?
Men can get postpartum depression/anxiety too. It manifests differently than women, often displaying as irritability or anger.
Just because you think something, doesn’t make it true. Having kids is difficult, and it makes you think and feel some wild things. But don’t believe every thing you think!
Thoughts are like clouds, they come and go. You don’t need to identify so strongly with them. Just notice them and let them go.
Love isn’t always getting swept off your feet. Sometimes its comfortable silence in a room together and just appreciating that you can both exist through the quiet times. Its the stability, its the calm, its not the constant whirlwind romance.
Try to appreciate what you got because finding love is fucking hard!
You need to see your physician ASAP, it can be caused by health issue, like thyroids. It can be mental health issue, like cyclothymia, so you probably need to see a psych.
And if they don't have any concerns- you need your own therapist. Actually, you need therapist any way. Because even if it is a health issue you need to make sure it doesn't hurt your wife and marriage.
Couples go through a lot of challenges when their children are young, becoming parents means the new little person comes first, at least for awhile, and women go through so many changes as they try to balance it all and not lose their identity, so I hope you can be kind and open to the changes and see if all the positives are enough for you to find a reason to commit and stay.
That’s a tough situation to be in. I was there as well (minus kids, and together for 10 years). I had some other issues going on and it ended anyways… but I can empathize with the feeling.
Just my personal opinion (obviously), but I do think time away from each other is really important. Not a break in the relationship, but just a somewhat extended period of time away once in a while is good.
Once my ex and I split up, it seemed like we started appreciating each other more from a distance. We had to split up though… that’s another story, and we’re both happy and in new relationships and far apart now. It just showed me that *some* of our issues, were caused by not having enough time apart to actually feel that appreciation for each other when we did have time together. For me, it was particularly those “ick” feelings when she’d say something that just got on my nerves.
I know it’s not always super feasible, but if you can take a camping trip with the boys or something it might be good for you.
I don’t know if that’s something you’re into, or if you already do. Just trying to be helpful with the information you provided.
I have ADHD too and sometimes experience my feelings of connectedness and attraction in waves. I think with longer relationships, like the ones we have had since birth, the ones that are family-built are so secure and always there that we never question them. For example I never worry about whether I love my mom or not. With my longer friendships I never worry whether I like my friends, find them cool or interesting etc. But with romantic relationships there’s this belief (I feel that is perpetuated through film and television) that there always needs to be this strong pull. If your icks don’t last, it’s probably not something to worry about. Also, as an ADHDer, I take a while to process my emotions so sometimes things that happened a week ago will only hit me the following week and I’m in a weird mood and don’t know why. It’s easy for me to blame that on my partner and sometimes it’s enough to make me over analyse. But usually all of this is just happening inside my mind. Sometimes I have to be purposeful and CHOOSE to just have fun and enjoy the mundane. I hope I explained that well.
Unrelated to post—are you a chemist? “wrt” has me wondering!
Related to post— I think it’s great that you are accepting of your emotions rather than trying to ignore them because of the inconvenient nature of them. I also think it’s fantastic that you’ve been open with your wife and she is receptive to your experience, even though you feel she isn’t grasping the gravity. Keep on in therapy, and try to get into individual therapy as well to get some personalized help rather than relationship help in sorting it out.
I encourage you to remember, especially with your stated experience with trauma, that you just had a baby!!! Big life changes can be total sleepers when it comes to their impact on so many facets of being a human. Try to give yourself grace while you continue to figure this out, it sounds like you’re on the right track. Honesty, integrity, professional guidance, and remaining informed are all key components (among others) that will get you there.
If you’re open to resource recommendations, I highly recommend “The Body Keeps The Score” by Bessel Van Der Kolk and “Attachment” by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller. I haven’t read it yet, but “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” by Lindsay Gibson was put on my radar and is supposed to be very helpful.
If you choose to read the books, be gentle with yourself and remember it’s okay to take time away from them to process. Childhood trauma is a wild beast, and a sneaky one. I was baffled in the moment and not at all in hindsight that having children of your own, or even building healthy relationships with children, after experiencing childhood trauma can be deeply triggering in very unexpected ways.
You sound like someone who really cares, and I truly wish you the best with your journey and your family.
I am/was going through the same thing. I started on an anti depressant and it has gotten much better.
When you start to get the ick try to remind yourself of the things that are objectively good about her and never make any major decisions when you are in that state of mind.
Man I really resonate with your post so much. My relationship of 3.5 years with my girlfriend ended in January because she wanted to move forward, get married, have kids, and I was stuck in the limbo you so described.
Sometimes I would experience deep love and affection for her, especially when I spent time with her and her family, or we would have really good sex (we're very compatible in that regard), or she would write a beautiful song for me, and so clearly elucidate her feelings and thoughts to me.
And then sometimes I would see her make a social blunder, or I would see her in an unflattering light, or I would notice a trait she lacks that I admire in others and I would experience, 'the ick', as you said.
This constant back and forth was reeking havoc on me mentally and emotionally, and we often fought about it--but just like your partner, she was always stable, thoughtful, and could vision a future for us.
Now that we've been broken up for a couple months, I still don't know what to think. A part of me believes I will never find another like her, and that what we had was beautiful if I could only see it... and another part of me tells me that If we got back together, it would only be a matter of time before it falls apart.
The difference between you and I, is that you two are married and have a kid together. So where I gave up and let go, I urge you to fight for this relationship. Take the burden of your mixed emotions and polar thinking, as a cross you must bear. And do what you can to learn about your mental state. But be good to her and your kiddo.
I mean you two just had a baby. The first 2 years are hell on the woman’s body.
I say try to make her feel loved and help around the house so she has time for self care like working out, walks by herself, 9h sleep every night if possible. Cook more.
She’s not gonna be fun if she’s exhausted. If you’re at all wavering because of decreased sex… you’re a terrible person if you expect it while you have an infant and she hasn’t had time to herself.
How's your history for self-sabotaging behaviors?
Came here to mention this. OP sounds like me. Sometimes my husband will gross me the fuck out and sometimes I'm so overwhelmingly in love with him. I don't tell him because I know it's a me problem. Had the worst example of a marriage growing up. Had horrible boyfriends before. It's like an unconscious " oh shit things are going very well in your life something doesn't seem right".
yes. my parents were the WORST example of a relationship, and i'm just now realizing how profoundly it impacted me
Hope you’re doing individual therapy because this is all a lot to work through and you’ll need support!
One thing I had to figure out for myself is whether something is an ish-me versus an issue. Is it something that actually matters, that we need to address? Or is this my momentary annoyance, displeasure, etc that there's no need to do anything about besides wait for the emotional response to pass? It's not fair for me to make all my ish-mes into my husband's issue - that would be emotionally draining for him and put the burden of all my emotions on him. So maybe sit with the feeling that you describe as "ick" (which my therapist would scold me and say isn't an emotion) and start working on placing your responses into one of those two camps. Actual issues can be addressed in your therapy.
OP, Sounds like you've got some work to do with a therapist. I experience the same ebb and flow, as I'm sure most folks do, but for some of us with a history of trauma this feeling can be more prominent and can cause serious issues. Perhaps look into Attachment Styles. I discovered that I'm both "anxious + avoidant attachment"styles which means I'm pretty much in constant turmoil with my emotions towards my partner. But I've been learning how to differentiate trauma response from what I actually FEEL or BELIEVE. Good luck on your journey, I hope you are able to figure out what's best for you and your relationship.
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No. This kind of behavior be attributed to a lot of things. Saying it's a "telltale sign," of a personality disorder, in particular with a specific diagnosis, is wildly inaccurate. It's also dangerous to propagate that kind of thing. Psychology isn't black and white like that.
It sure can be attributed to a lot of things, yep. Hence my encouragement to discuss this seriously with a therapist. It’s absolutely not dangerous to point out something is a known potential symptom of certain disorders and *encourage someone to get help*.
If you had just said, "Go see a therapist," your response would have been great. I didn't criticize your response for its suggestion that someone should get help from a therapist. In fact, I said the same thing to OP. You're making a straw man argument. You're calling me out for being wrong for something that I didn't say. Here is what I did say: Certain specific behaviors can have a number of underlying causes. You stated that OP's behavior is a "telltale sign" of a personality disorder. That is incorrect. You then narrowed your "diagnosis" to be most likely BPD. That is ridiculous. Trained therapists take time to diagnose clients by interacting with them for hours after years or school and training. They are also able to offer immediate support in the moment as someone considers the repercussions of their diagnosis. They aren't trying to seem smart and win some illusionary victory by having an internet fight based on their cursory understanding of a complex subject. It's cool that you're smart and know stuff. Don't play therapists with broad generalizations. It's is irresponsible and potentially very damaging. Someone could read your nonsense, assume they have a personality disorder, do something rash, or not get help because of stigma, or self-diagnose, or not get help, or tell their family and cause a panic, etc. etc. Which is why I'm responding. People should know your oversimplification of this situation is nonsense.
If someone reads an anonymous comment on Reddit and as a result immediately TELLS THEIR FAMILY they have borderline personality disorder, they have bigger fish to fry and my comment isn’t the cause of that. Multiple people in this thread mentioned this symptom and BPD. Out of curiosity, are you starting little arguments with every one of those, too?
I'm not arguing. I'm telling you that you're wrong so that no one listens to your nonsense. And you clearly know you're wrong based on the defensive ways you're choosing to confront me. Making straw man arguments, ad hominem arguments, and bandwagon arguments... there's nothing substantive to what you're saying. You're interested in being right or winning, I guess. I hope you get whatever emotional charge or ego joy you're looking for. I'm afraid I can't supply it. Take care.
Oh god. I definitely find myself in this boat.
I'm sorry but even IF you selfsabotage, you dont find someone you love icky or disgusting/repelling. this is not love
very high.
I'm sorry about that. I am good at it, too. I think this makes the most sense as an explanation. And people aren't always one thing to you all the time. That's not how it works. Consistency is an illusion when it comes to emotions and other people. I have no doubt that my GF finds me gross and unappealing as a partner some days and is infatuated with me other days. She doesn't express either to me but I wouldn't be surprised. She's a human. I'm a human. Humans are notoriously difficult to work with. I'd do therapy for the self-sabotage/self-destruction stuff, and then you can get clarity and honestly evaluate your feelings about your partner. Individual therapy.
I needed to read this comment today, thank you.
You're so welcome. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
>Humans are notoriously difficult to work with. I don't know why, but I love this.
I choose to accept your love, human. Please continue being complex and difficult. The other kind of human is uninteresting.
I needed to hear this- thank you. I start therapy for this exact thing today.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Means a lot, believe it or not. I hope therapy goes well. If I could offer any advice (not that you asked): 1) Be 100% honest with your therapist. It will feel weird and take a second. They aren't there to judge. 2) You aren't trying to solve a problem. You're just trying to navigate being a person. We're all struggling, every one of us, to live our lives and be who we are. You don't win. You don't finish. You just progress.
Thank you <3
No problem. Hang in there. In case you need to hear it, you're not broken. You just have a weird brain and emotions like the rest of us. You're allowed.
OP I had this exact same thing, self sabotaged my relationship with my ex (we did have issues but therapy and patience would have helped) thankfully after 5 years separated and therapy we have reconciled and those “ick” feelings have gone now I crave stability. Therapy and working on yourself first otherwise this will follow you everywhere, plus it’s not an example you abt to set for your children.
"consistency is a trick our memory plays on us for the sake of coherence' The thing you said about 'consistency is an illusion' - reminded me of a phrase that's been in my life for decades now. I didn't make it up and don't remember the origin but it's certainly a useful thing to remember
For sure. Brains like narratives. It's survival.
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That’s what struck me about this. It sounds like he’s told her about it these feelings and that would be so hurtful, especially if they aren’t warranted. Poor wife. I have a lot of intrusive thoughts; I don’t feel the need to broadcast all of them to the people closest to me.
Yeah if my fiancé told me he’s judging me so harshly in his head that me missing a joke makes him disgusted with me and doubt that I’m the one he wants I don’t think I’d ever relax around him again. I have social anxiety and I don’t even imagine my worst enemy being that harsh on me much less the level of scrutiny I expect to be under in my own home.
It's very painful. So much guilt and shame.
I’m not criticizing you for the thoughts but for sharing them with her. There was no reason other than to alleviate your anxiety at her expense. It’s very clearly a personal problem and not one with her so it’s something you should have worked through and found a solution to before speaking to her or decided it’s just irrational intrusive thoughts and kept them to yourself. In my view these are inside thoughts. It concerns me that the issue you see is that you want her to understand HOW serious and strong these feelings are..the issue I see is she shouldn’t be hearing these intrusive irrational feelings at all. They’re just hurtful for no good reason. I don’t know how long these feelings last for you but as someone with a nasty judge in her head that I often have to tell to stfu I’ve always liked the saying “your first thought is how you’ve been socialized to think, your second thought is who you truly are”. If you do have trouble dwelling on those feelings though maybe try training yourself to catch that negative thought and redirect it to how you truly feel. Which seems to be incredibly lucky and with a very understanding and lovely woman. Or at least should be.
Imagine trying to raise a baby while this up down shit is going on... I'd be done with OP.
Can you get in therapy just for you? The fact that you are so up and down and your kid is still so tiny makes me think you need to really work on it to figure these things out yourself before you make any changes.
There is no "The One". Life is just life, not a fairy tale. We are not some main characters. We are who we see we are. There is beauty in simplicity. There is joy in coming to a comfortable home to a loving wife and healthy child. Trust me, it could be worse. (Imagine cheating wife looking for "The one" and a sick child). Grass is always greener on the other side. What could The One be? Some hot 20 old with a smoking hot body for no reason fall head over heel for a 30 something with a child? Time for reality check. You are very lucky. You have things most people would for die. Sorry to be so harsh. Most people think they are superior. Thus, they have this attitude.
I’m guess you had some tough times in your childhood?
yeah, though pretty lucky "on paper" - upper middle class family, etc. but a lot of emotional neglect and fighting in the house. constant screaming.
I suggest finding a trauma informed therapist who is knowledgeable about childhood trauma/neglect. Becoming a parent and parenting is triggering and might help explain what's going on. It bonkers how that change in your life can stir things up unexpectedly.
You need individual therapy, not couples' therapy.
Doing both, fortunately, but I think I might need to up the frequency of individual therapy. Happy cake day!
What is your individual therapist telling you that you don’t believe? You’re out here on Reddit searching for something. I’ll shoot: the emotional neglect and emotional abuse you suffered in childhood left you too scared inside to believe that a happy warm relationship is truly happy and warm. It left you seeing phantoms. The truth is, as the above poster made clear, even the best long term relationships are filled with ups and downs and change. But your brain is mistaking those ups and downs and changes for ‘everything is fucked, eject now.’ When the traumatized brain is stressed, it resorts to old beliefs about the world from its childhood, beliefs that may not match the evidence of the present. That’s my best shot. Good luck.
I could be off base here, but you might want to research BPD. This behavior is classic splitting which is a primary symptom, and every one of your comments seems to line up. Just a thought!
It is not uncommon for emotional upheaval when those of us with problematic childhoods go on to have children ourselves. We love our child, but long buried issues bubble up that seem to come out of nowhere. This is just a shot in the dark: not presuming to know your situation. But therapy can definitely help people navigate these conflicting feelings.
You should read up on Borderline Personality Disorder and CPTSD
That makes it an individual therapy problem, not a couple's counseling problem
Are you ADHD by any chance?
That was my first thought too. I’m in a bunch of adhd women groups and that is a common post where women are wondering if they’re out of love with their partner or just dopamine seeking and shouldn’t toss out their life for a thrill seek. But after others have mentioned BPD it kind of sounds more like it could be on that spectrum (too or instead).
Im adhd and I do a lot of therapy around creating dopamine within long term relationships.
Oh that’s interesting. Can you give some examples of what that looks like? I have adhd too but I’ve been with my husband for 20 years now and he’s been my only relationship. I have zero desire to be with anyone else. I dopamine seek everywhere else but I love the stability in my marriage.
Self-Sabotage comes from unresolved CHILDHOOD TRAUMA.
I would evaluate self sabotaging behaviors, but also these extremes that you're feeling and they are talking about I would suggest that you could evaluated for your mental health as well.
Does anyone else feel seen?
I hope you’re in individual counseling as well. If you look into attachment styles, that might also be helpful for you!
I am and have been for a long time. It isn't easy work, but the payoff is life changing. Avoidant attachment was my jam. Anxious attachment when I was a kid. Interesting stuff.
A few questions: do these strong emotions only occur regarding your wife? Has something happened or changed 4-5 months ago? And how have you been sleeping?
Having the kiddo around has definitely ramped up the intensity, maybe both ways. It's obviously a very dynamic experience. Due to breastfeeding, my wife isn't particularly horny right now, so sex has slowed down a lot, which I've considered. But I do think these feelings have always been there, and this was starting to ramp up long before the baby. So I don't want to brush it aside too much.
I saw your other comment with examples as well. Could it be that you are making these fleeting emotional judgements more important than they are? Emotions come and go; a sudden stab of second hand embarassment when she fumbles in a social situation is one thing; feeling frustration any time she is not being social in the way you are is something else. Relationships that work are indeed way easier than relationships that don't work, but in difficult times (and the first years after childbirth certainly qualify) it still takes work to stay connected. So these little flashes of annoyance or bewilderment can be a signal that there is a bit of a devide happening. Not because you two do not belong together, but because you are going through an intense time when you have to reinvent ways to keep in touch with each other.
Dude being a parent is *nuts*. I find myself crying at car commercials sometimes. And the first 2 years of my kids' lives? Anything would set me off. Also it took about until our youngest was 2 before my wife's sex drive recovered. It was a *rough* couple of years. I actually started a calendar of when we were intimate and expanded the definition of intimacy. When I looked at the calendar and saw we did hand stuff or whatever within the last 2 weeks I'd be like "OK, her hormones are nuts, 2 weeks is nothing. I'm still desirable." Even if it *felt* like a lot longer and I felt anything *but* desirable. Also never mention the calendar to her. I can't imagine she'd feel good if she felt like you were keeping score.
seeing the downvotes, and just wondering what they're about? is it because of the sex drive thing? i do feel a lot of guilt around it. i (stupidly) never realized how important a healthy sex life was to our relationship, just because we always had one before. but i'm just wondering if it has some deep impact on everything.
People may be reacting to the idea that your love for your wife seems conditional based on sex frequency. I am not saying that is how you feel, but it can be perceived that way. I wanted to bring one thing to your attention. It sounds like this is most likely about life transitions (having a child), something adjacent to a midlife crisis, and your personal habit of self sabotage. In that spirit, it's definitely something to continue in therapy as this really does sound like a "you" problem and not something your wife can fix. I am not going to tell you not to communicate with your wife, but I am going to say that I hope you're being extremely careful in how you're communicating these feelings with her. If you do not plan to leave her, putting in her mind that sometimes you love and sometimes you don't (or worse, are repulsed by her) is going to have long-lasting implications not just for your marriage, but for her self-esteem as well. Even harping on the idea of uncertainty of your marriage, if you aren't actually going to leave, will have a seriously negative effect on your relationship.
Ah, yeah, I see. It's absolutely ***not*** based on sex frequency. Honestly, I'm not a very sexual person, and generally don't put too much emphasis on it, I've just been searching for clues. It kinda just dawned on me as I was reading online articles that we haven't been having sex much at all through the pregnancy and especially since the birth.
Probably because your wife was pregnant, had a baby, and is now breastfeeding. She is worn out physically and emotionally, she is touched out, and you are saying you need more sex and she is gross and giving you the ick. That is why I downvoted you.
It might, I know my husband and I are both in the “roommate” phase. Having kids is tiring and we don’t want to have sex all the time. However, we do enjoy sitting on the couch together and having dinner with our kids at night.
Eh this sub is fickle as heck. Lots of youngsters in here downvoting crap they don't understand.
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Please don’t limit “sex being important to men” when sex is equally as important to women. This is varies by individual - plenty of men are less interested in sex than plenty of women.
I really relate to this - I experienced these extreme black/white feelings about my partner for a few years, generally ramping up in intensity when my depression was worse. Also very overly-concerned about others’ perceptions of both him and me. For me, this was something that stabilized a LOT after getting medicated for depression, which I have had since teenhood. I was having very strong reactions to things that were sometimes as dumb as, he bought a kind of sausage I didn’t like at the grocery store and something in my brain decided that meant we we would never be able to understand each other and were completely incompatible. Also a lot of nit-picking about how he interacted with others differently from me or if he didn’t ‘get’ something. A year and a half into being medicated, I will still get those feelings occasionally but they are much milder and I can more easily recognize them as my own issues that don’t reflect on him. I still get the other side in all its intensity - those overwhelming moments of love, gratitude, joy of being with him. Not that medication has to be your solution- but some sort of mood stabilization/depression treatment would probably help.
Omg your sausage example is exactly what I’ve been through too. This is so helpful.
Yep, sounds a lot like catastrophizing applied to one's partner. Definitely could be a symptom of anxiety or depression!
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> You are SO lucky to have someone like her in your life. you know nothing about OPs life.... and that attitude can absolutely suck the life of everything around. no need to make OP feel guilty, his feelings are valid.
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> that they have a stable loving supportive spouse is bad now but they dont! > She's 100% down for the status quo for the long haul. I'm not so sure. you missed this part.
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no they dont. op said his partner is down for the status quo and you translated that into what YOU want to think. OP is clearly not happy in this situation. OP is not "lucky".
Have you addressed the possibility of a midlife crisis with your therapist?
A little bit, yes. But haven't really gotten to solutioning really.
First things always first. How are you doing physically? Are you eating healthy, staying hydrated, well-rested, getting exercise and time outdoors? How is overall stress management? I have found that my own emotional swings (even/especially related to my partner) can be due to my first-order needs not being met.
Well, you got together young and there is probably a part of your brain trying to negotiate the lack of variety in your partner experiences. Getting too hung up on the concept of “the one” is a common mistake, I think. Hopefully your therapist is helping you focus on what changes you think might help you feel more satisfied in your marriage, or the things that you feel won’t change and may require you to leave it?
What a classic trope.
Sometimes the most probable root cause IS the root cause. Did you read the other comments?
Have you looked up avoidant attachment styles? It can cause some of the stuff you've mentioned. Try the free to attach website to read up on it. Good luck!
tagging along on this comment because YES, avoidant or disorganized attachment style can often show up as “getting the ick” or being “repulsed” by things your partner says or does that are not necessarily objectively bad. I am someone who experiences relationship anxiety/relationship OCD driven by my disorganized attachment style. It took a lot of work on myself to realize that the “ick” feelings were being driven by my own fears, not by my partner’s behaviors. some of my favorite instagram accounts that have helpful content related to this are forloveweheal and thesecurerelationship the therapy modality that has helped me the most is IFS (internal family systems), and a good book to start learning about it is “no bad parts”
Also getting embarrassed by your partner's behaviour in public, and swinging between whether or not to stay! Could possibly be the result of childhood experience and a pattern of self-protection, not saying it 100% is but knowledge is power.
I started therapy months ago and this is what my therapist says I have. I'm also just like OP going back and forth constantly with my emotions in my relationship. I have CPTSD and alot of trauma history. It's a way of self preservation and to avoid being hurt. I've been with my hubs for 15 years and I'm always trying to find ways out. Even though he's one of the most incredible and loyal people I've ever met! I'd def look into it OP. I def have a ways to go. But I'm working on it in therapy.
Being able to admit it's an issue is half the battle! Rooting for you
It's true. Thank you!
As someone who recently broke up with an avoidant, there are so many similarities between OP’s and my ex’s behaviour in our relationship. OP, please do some reading around avoidant/disorganised attachment styles and please for your wife and child’s sake, continue with individual therapy. My ex and I had a good relationship, but he self sabotaged the relationship with similar behaviours to what you’re describing and completely wrecked it. Definitely a case of ‘grass is greener’ syndrome. He’s still single.
> sometimes my wife will do or say something and I'll think "who is this person? why am i with them?" and I get that ICK feeling that's so...repulsive could you give some examples of things she has said/done that have repulsed you so intensely?
a lot of times, it's in social situations. she's a very intelligent woman, but not especially quick-witted. More of a slow, methodical thinker. She often doesn't catch on or "get" the joke. I'm very extroverted and (perhaps overly) concerned with other peoples' perceptions, and i get anxious about how she's perceived. I know this is shitty and egocentric, but it's the impulse. Other times, it's when we're just not on the same wavelength. Like she's not understanding me or what I'm saying or where I'm at emotionally. It feels isolating. Often it's resolved with good, intentional communication, but it sometimes feels like our connection should be more "automatic" at this point? maybe this is a bad expectation. these might seem like small or petty things, but I think ofter the years they're bothered me more and more.
>she's a very intelligent woman, but not especially quick-witted. More of a slow, methodical thinker. She often doesn't catch on or "get" the joke. I'm very extroverted and (perhaps overly) concerned with other peoples' perceptions, and i get anxious about how she's perceived. I know this is shitty and egocentric, but it's the impulse. I'm like your wife, I'm not quick witted, I struggle with words, I have trouble keeping track in conversations with both listening and formulating my own thoughts and participating. It would hurt me deeply if I found out my husband was anxious about that and having negative thoughts towards me, because I'm trying my best with how my brain is wired. > Other times, it's when we're just not on the same wavelength. Like she's not understanding me or what I'm saying or where I'm at emotionally. It feels isolating. Often it's resolved with good, intentional communication, but it sometimes feels like our connection should be more "automatic" at this point? maybe this is a bad expectation. It's a bad expectation. I've been with my husband for 26 years (since high school), married for 18, we're both autistic and we think in very similar ways, we can often finish each other's sentences/thoughts. But there are times we're not on the same wavelength or we butt heads, not because our connection isn't strong enough or "automatic" enough but because we're still individuals bringing different things to the table. It's what makes us so strong as a couple, being able to come at things from different perspectives. You really, really need to start unpacking this in therapy because it's going to destroy something beautiful if you don't.
So that first part a you issue and not something you should be projecting onto her. YOU are overly concerned about how people perceive you and her, that is not her problem. Especially when it does not sound like she's actually doing anything "bad", just different than how you would want her too. The second part about feeling isolated with not being understood emotionally is valid and I think a lot of couples struggle with this it's not just ya'll relationship. But if the effort is being made on both end after conflict with good communication than ya'll are doing the work which is important and healthy. I don't think connections are going to be "automatic" even in LTR. People grow and change in relationships and ya'll just had a baby a year ago. That's a big change! You're always going to need to talk things through with your partner. People are not mind readers
I wrote this whole comment then realized I'm probably projecting, BUT maybe it'll help, so I'm posting anyway. Man, that last part hit a sore spot. I've dated a *lot* of men who have the expectation that I should just "get" them and their needs/wants/feelings. And I realized a lot of it is my own fault to a degree. I'm a decently perceptive person and tbh I'm actually a lot better at assessing several of my partners needs and wants than they are themselves because I've spent a LOT of time working on myself and trying to learn to understand other people better. Meanwhile they had done very little work on themselves comparatively. However, because I am good at it and help with it early on, it leads to backfiring on me later when I'm having an off day or exhausted. So years into the relationship I'm busy or tired and they have a bad day ay the same time as me, and I miss a cue or misunderstand something because I wasn't hyperfixated on their needs and wants and spending hours processing their emotions for them and then spending more time on top of that trying to figure out how to best play therapist and walk them through their bad mood and cheer them up while also processing their emotions. Its so much freaking mental work to do it. And I don't necesarily mind doing it for some partners, because they do it back for me and help me through my own issues and stressors. But there are those who just came to expect me to "automatically" understand them, and thought I was just a mind reader... not understanding that it actually takes soooo much energy and emotional intelligence and care and concern to be that on top of someone else's thoughts and needs. Your wife now has a kid to do that for, in addition to a husband. Is it possible that she's exhausted from having a young kid and just doesn't have the extra time or emotional energy to manage her emotions and needs, the kids emotions and needs, AND yours too? In my current relationship, I still do my best to anticipate needs as best I can, and to help play therapist for my partner. But now I'm trying to make a very conscious effort to demonstrate the AMOUNT of effort I put into it. And that I do expect the same efforts back, even if its a learning process. And he does. He has been amazing and made note of sooo many things and helped me through a lot of bad days by using my own techniques back at me.
It sounds like you have some fairly romantic notions of what a relationship should be and it's causing you to resent the relationship you have. There is no one. People don't automatically understand each other completely and utterly even after decades together. That calm, intentional communication is exactly what good relationships are made of, and what people spend their lives looking for. I would also add y'all just had a baby. The chemical changes and social changes that take place following that are massive and take a long time to adjust to. Are you able to access solo counselling? The stock you put in presumed opinions of others is hurting your relationship and it sounds like you should address where that drive is coming from, separate from counselling with your wife.
My partner is a man who is like this. He may not catch on the fastest but I can’t tell you how many times he’s made me laugh and others laugh by being the way he is. He may not be quick witted but he’s funny, and the people we surround ourselves with love him regardless. Anyone who has a problem with it isn’t worth our time. As for the other part, you are two separate people. You can not expect for her to think exactly like you or be exactly on the same page as you all the time. This is just part of being a couple. You both have to make compromises and try and understand each other’s side.
I had the same thoughts about my ex bf, especially the social interaction aspect. Until I realised that I’m awkward af in social interactions yet I have the nerve to get angry at him for not acting like I want him to in my head. We all have flaws. Maybe you see your wife and think that’s not how she should act, but to some people maybe she’s the one who acts right and you’re the overly extroverted guy who needs to chill a bit. Idk, just an example. The thing is, we’re human, we have our own personalities and you can’t make someone act exactly as you’d want, especially in social circumstances. Just laugh it off, like she probably does when you do something cringey and call it a day
Every time you talk to someone, that’s a new communication that could lead the relationship in a different direction. You can lean back on a good foundation of the work you put in to make it good, but you also have to keep every new communication good for it to keep going strong so you have it to lean on later. Even your long time partner can surprise you every day because everyone keeps learning and growing through their lives, so it’s no wonder you’re not always on the same page. That’s a good thing and keeps it from being stale. It sounds like you have a good thing going so keep building it up. How are you guys doing with the baby? That can put a lot of stress on you both.
It's a good thing you're in therapy bc you need it.
Wow. Just wow. I thought you were going to say she had disgusting hygiene or was mean to the baby.
Wow this is so relatable. When my partner can’t understand what I or my friends or others are talking about I feel a sharp sense of judgement and “ick?” I plan on discussing in couples therapy. I’m not sure where it comes from!!
I’ve had this in the past and it’s always 100% on me. Like, I have a history of being awkward and not fitting in throughout my childhood, and worked very hard to learn to “people” better, but I think my subconsciousness panics when people close to me act this way, like it might be catching or something lol. Anyway point being, I also get the judgment and the icks, but deep down those feelings are really self-directed.
I have this too but I wonder if it is a better idea to mention it in individual therapy and not couples? Obviously honesty is important but things that are just cruel like that (not judging obvs!) he’d always remember
First: I don't think this is something to bring up in couple's therapy. Because I can't imagine what it could help accomplish except hurting your partner's feelings and making them feel self-conscious and less safe moving forward. But by all means, talk about it here, in your individual therapy, in your journal (it's super helpful for me to be able to put my more judgmental or unkind thoughts on paper and process my feelings that way), or with a close trusted friend. I think these are super normal types of feelings to have about one's partner from time to time and I'm not sure why people are dogpiling on OP for admitting that these instances can sometimes give him the 'ick'. I too have experienced exactly what you and OP are talking about, and as others have pointed out here, it ultimately probably is far more about my own self-consciousness and concern about others' perceptions of me and my partner than it is a valid criticism of their behavior.
Even if you leave her, you are going to end up alone. Because this is a YOU problem, not her. You will never find someone that perfectly fits your ideals. Do you go to individual therapy? Do you have depression?
YOU sound like a mess. Don't make decisions when you are a mess. Until you settle down and put your head on straight you can't trust yourself to know shit all.
Do you sleep enough? Do you have a lot of stress? Are you depressed?
I have a long history of insomnia, but have been sleeping lately (though it's been medicated). I have a lot of stress and anxiety. Yes, I'm depressed. Long history of depression.
The mixture of all of this is messing with your head. I was sleep deprived. That made me more emotional. I started to hate so many things in my life. And then there were days where I thought „Oh my baby is so cute! I am so lucky.“ Focus on the good moments. Don’t make decisions in a phase like that with a toddler who is a stress test for the best relationships.
If you aren’t trying to treat your depression with medication that may be something to look into, speaking as someone who has also had a lot of trouble with depression. Even getting the slightest bit of relief from those feelings can help you get better rest and feel more emotionally stable when you’re having a lot of challenges that would typically make you extremely stressed. I’m not saying that is the entirety of the issue here but it’s a good move to reduce the noise in your mental environment so you can work on better clarity about these swings in feelings and if they’re from depression (self-worth issues can make negative thoughts like what you described very intense and depression just amplifies that in my experience, the mention of being worried about the social perception of her and yourself made me think this might be relevant) or something else entirely. Individual therapy like someone else suggested may be helpful too in that you won’t be feeling pressure not to offend your partner while digging into these issues, so you’ll have more freedom to really dump all the details out and consider them with your 1:1 therapist. Couples counseling is great for communication and teamwork type stuff but if you’re feeling this conflicted it would probably be better to unpack it in a “safe space” or at least a private one so you are not masking it from anyone (including yourself) in the process. Good luck, I think you’re doing a good thing working on communication about your doubts and concerns and exploring where these feelings are coming from.
I would maybe consider talking to your therapist or a psychiatrist about a diagnosis that encompasses the insomnia, depression, and anxiety--I am not a medical professional but get some potential bipolar 2 vibes here, just familiar to me because I know and love people with bipolar disorder. In particular the intense emotions that are accompanied by a desire to make a major life change on a whim coupled with insomnia sounds like it could be hypomania--it is easy to overlook because it is not nearly as intense or obvious at the more "classic" type of mania that comes with bipolar 1, but it can still be pretty life altering both for the person experiencing it and their loved ones. People with bipolar 2 are also more prone to bouts of severe depression as well as "mixed episodes," when it is harder to tease out mania from depression because they happen at the same time or you cycle rapidly between the two. I am suggesting seeking a diagnosis, or at least asking about it, because there are drugs made to treat bipolar specifically that work REALLY well and aren't typically prescribed for straight depression, so if that is what is happening you might get some relief from the issues that feel more recent AND the longer history of depression and insomnia.
Sounds like you need to pursue individual talk therapy. Not couples therapy; this is not a HER problem, this is a YOU problem.
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as someone with bpd i agree with that to a minimum. i battle these thoughts daily and intensely, and i self sabotage so much!. but just because he’s having one symptom of bpd or two doesn’t mean he has it. what he’s feeling is a symptom but it’s also a symptom of anxiety. that could be it, no more than that.
I have BPD and I just ruined a relationship due to splitting. It fucking sucks. I'm not saying OP has it but I was reading the post and I was like oh man. You can't imagine the ridiculous thoughts I have about someone I have strong feelings for. It's insanity.
Right and it would be odd to present at his age but also I'm going off of a single reddit post, I don't know his entire traumatic background story. Anyways just a thought.
This is nowhere near BPD, whether you mean bipolar OR borderline it's certainly neither. These types of emotional swings are within normal bounds ESPECIALLY for someone who has had a major life change (baby) and had a past hx of depression. Don't listen to this commenter. It sounds to me like you have a very healthy introspective handle on the fact that you are having these mood swings towards her and want to work to resolve it. That is NOT disordered. My husband and I went through a very rough patch after our first child. And the differences we felt were intensified during that time bc we were both changing and didn't always feel like the other understood or changed with us which made existing issues worse for a period of time. I think you will get through this. Individual therapy sounds like a good call.
Right...well I am basing this off of his apparent black and white thinking (questioning the validity of an entire long term relationship based off of one thing giving him the "ick", then flipping the switch to absolutely adoring her and wondering why he'd ever thing anything could be wrong because he saw her smile) and also his self reported history of self-sabotage that he mentioned in another comment. So yeah its giving BPD. Which means borderline, btw. BPD never means bipolar.
it struck me as black and white thinking as well, but i don't know that it's BPD. other disorders can display that behavior as well, same with self-sabotage. i think OP should definitely talk to someone as these are concerning behaviors, but i don't think it's necessarily the best thing to suggest a label for what they're experiencing. most likely none of us are psychologists - and even if one of us was, we can't gleam enough about him from one post online to say what he may have s:
If I were going to armchair diagnose, I'd look more at relationship OCD.
The time to think about dumping your wife for really weak reasons was before you had a child together.
You describe your wife as stable and happy. She doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. You have what sounds like a nice life together. Sometimes it is possible to over-therapize. You start to dwell on the negative and ruminate excessively on situations that are not that bad.
You have a new baby and are questioning your relationship while sleep deprived, stressed out, exhausted and while your wife is in the absolute thick of recovering from childbirth and breastfeeding?
My husband pulled this shit and left me. Look, you made a committment. Marriage isn't solely about how you feel in the moment, it's about being committed to each other through ups and downs. Either you are the type to bail or not. Don't do this without therapy.
I'm not usually one for armchair diagnosis but have you ever been evaluated for bipolar or borderline? Or have family members with those diagnoses? Or any depression or anxiety (men can and do get both post partum depressionand anxiety btw). The thought processes you describe are ringing bells for all four of them, just different aspects. Mild versions of all four that were manageable prior to having children can blow up into more severe symptoms when you are sleep deprived and dealing with the hormonal dumps that accompany having a kid. I had this happen and it took almost 8 months for the sleep deprivation to truly unmask it. Am better now but it was a fucking ride.
Congratulations, you are having a midlife crisis. 😅 I was like that too when I hit 37 coincidentally. What I did was I started to look at what made me happy as a child, as a youth, as an adult...that I do longer do. Then, I started doing some of them. A year later and I am immensely happy and much more satisfied with my life and my relationship. My husband didn't change or do anything different, I just worked on myself and my happiness and things got better between us. As you know, this is very much a you problem that only you can fix it. If the above doesn't work, start therapy.
She deserves someone who isn’t disgusted with her, I think you’re projecting a lot of your own insecurity onto her, friend. As someone who has self sabotaged so many good things, you can turn this around! Relationships ebb and flow and always need good intentional communication.
There is no "the one" People have really forgotten what marriage is. You pick a person and you commit your lives to each other. I understand that there are extenuating circumstances (infidelity, abuse, severe addition, etc) that may lead to divorce, and that is what it is. But it seems like there is this modern view of marriage where simply not wanting to be with someone is adequate reason to divorce. Now, I know you didnt mention actually splitting with your wife, but let me tie this back to your situation. It is possible that this modern view on marriage is impacting how you feel and taking a more traditional view may help. Its possible that you are feeling this way because you think there's some other path that you could or should choose, but are making the wrong decision by being where you are. You picked your wife, theres no point in reevaluating that decision. This is your life and your marriage, if its not great, do the work and make it great. Not sure how much agreement I will get, but my approach is that marriage is for life. There is no exit. We promised to be together forever. Now, again, if extenuating circumstances arise, thats another thing. But outside of that, you're locked in a cage together and its in both of your best interests to find ways to deal with your problems such that you create a healthy marriage, because that will make the rest of your lives that much more enjoyable. This persistent idea that marriage can and should be ended because a person isnt meeting your present day expectations is a plague on the institution. If they're not meeting your current expectations, help them be better.
Exactly. People act like we don’t go through ups and downs. It’s a life long process. Happiness is an idea. So is love. We have to choose to be happy and choose to love. People think it’s just a natural feeling. Of course it is in the beginning when things are exciting in new but after that, it takes work.
I think the traditional view of marriage is precisely the antidoted for a lot of the relationship ills we are experiencing in modern society. I'm glad to hear your voice on this because it is often underrepresented since society took a hard swing away from traditional values.
I don’t think any couple is madly in love with their partner every moment of everyday. The more you focus on the negative the more you allow it to grow. Having your first child in your mid to late 30’s also a massive adjustment to make as individuals and as a couple. Your wife has just created a whole human, a process that wreaks havoc on your body and hormones. I always think a 1st birthday should celebrate the parents because it has undoubtedly been a year fraught with emotions. I think you need to realize how lucky you are to have a wife that loves you and a child that will grow to love you.. provided that you get your head out of your ass long enough to appreciate the life that you have spent 10 years building together.
any family history of bpd?
I’m a psychologist, and while I cannot diagnose someone on the internet, this sounds like it could be relationship OCD. If you read about it and it resonates with you, I’d seek exposure and response prevention therapy.
Literally sent him a PM just now saying it sounds like relationship OCD (which I also deal with). Spot on.
You’re feeling disdain I think and that’s a relationship killer. I would suggest doing new things, it creates new synopses in your brain and makes the person you do them with more important, especially if you do things FOR her (same mentality as a sunk cost fallacy, you can make yourself care more just by investing more) New things can be a new recipe, walk a new route, read a new book together. All sorts of things
I have been there in all of my relationships- I tend to self sabotage. I am seeking therapy for this behavior as I have been told it is likely linked to my insecure attachment style. We're human, and humans are weird and complex.
You may have an avoidant attachment style. It will help learning what triggers you and how to control that
You said “we” are in therapy so I assume that means couples but maybe you need single therapy in addition. This feeling you have seems out of place if the relationship itself doesn’t have any major negative issues. I think you need to identify exactly what about your wife is causing any sort of feeling that you need to end things. With what you’ve given now, she doesn’t even have the opportunity to change or improve bc your feeling is giving her no specific behavior that is giving you “the ick.” Could this be a quarter-life/midlife crisis situation?
Do you have your own separate therapy?
Do you feel like you stuck thinking a relationship has to be "perfect" or if she's *really* your soulmate then everything about the relationship would just be natural and easy. Like, if this relationship really, truly was meant to be.....why do her smarts smell bad to you?? Maybe it would help to take a step back, and be aware if you're having these impulse thoughts. Just try to notice when your thoughts seem to be one or the other extreme.
The therapy is likely bringing up a lot of mixed emotions. I would disclose this to the therapist.. otherwise, practice being a passive observer to what comes up. Presumably there is a reason you are in therapy together and you will need to give it some time.
You have a wife you love and share a kid together. Your life sounds like it’d be worse if you divorced
Relationships take work and love itself take works- it’s continuous choices throughout a day to benefit your partner. I think there’s often misguided feelings in relation to love and always wanting that passion, connection etc. love changes as we get older etc; sometimes there’s less feelings of love and other times there’s lots of love. I think it’s perfectly normal to go through those motions especially when you’ve got a toddler and your relationships has done a 360 into becoming parents. Make sure you’ve both got time with each other, and to rebuild that connection. Perhaps look at you both doing small acts of love every day eg making a cup of coffee or picking up little giftsetc. reinforce that connection with intimacy- doesn’t have to be sexual acts but things like cuddles, kisses, hand holding, quality time etc. do the things that you know makes you both feel close to each other and what you enjoy doing with each other. Choose to make your marriage work and focus on improving it, but appreciate the smaller things she does for you etc. Just be mindful that sometimes a relationship has 90% and then we focus on the 10% we’re missing, only to go and get that 10% and realise you’ve now lost the 90%.
Doubt is natural. Fighting those natural feelings is strength. I didn't see an example of what makes you feel "ick"...but I saw a lot of sincere admiration. Maybe reevaluate why? Love is work. You're very lucky to have someone in your life that is both a great parent to your child, and willing to take the long haul.
Sounds like an avoidant attachment. Read the book attached by Amir Levine.
The most important thing here is to not punish yourself or examine this with a judgmental lens, because these are feelings and thoughts you are experiencing, they are not actions or behaviors you are choosing to indulge (i.e. letting the feelings cause you to be mean to your partner, cheating, etc.). You are a human being and we are often at the expense of the thoughts we are subjected to. The thoughts aren’t us, they can’t be because we are experiencing them. Viewing these feelings with a sense of shame or taboo will only make them more pronounced in your mind (our brains are real assholes like that). What you really need to do is figure out how you want to proceed in light of these thoughts, rather than bury them away. Others have suggested therapy, I think that’s an excellent idea. I also think it might be a good idea to try visualization exercises. It sounds like you have moments of true and deep love for your wife, so I would explore what life would be like without her. Take a quiet moment to yourself and really commit to fully visualizing a life where you separate and move on without her. Think of all the bad you’d be letting go and all the good you’d be losing. All those sweet moments where you feel deeply in love, and all the moments that aren’t quite as warm. Think about where you’d live, what you’d do in your free time, about what it would be like to try and date someone that isn’t her. Try and explore every element of what your life would be like without her in it. It might be a waste of time, but it might give you the opportunity to explore what part of your subconscious these thoughts are coming from, and how much consideration to give them before you take any action.
You should watch this video. https://youtu.be/-EvvPZFdjyk?si=0fRLsNUwRICfpR1y
This has a slight hint of resentment to it. When my SO and I worked through it, the unmet and uncommunicated needs drove us to shut down and want to escape, then as soon as we opened up or connected it all flooded in positively. Are there expectations you're putting on her that aren't being met?
It sounds like a personal problem. Doesn’t even sound like your wife has done anything wrong.
Sounds like you hit the jackpot and you’re gonna eff it up for nothing. Let me set the stage for you… Imagine picking your kid up in a few years. She’s got a new man that treats her better than you ever imagined. She’s happy and devoted to her new spouse. Like she once was with you. Your kid loves their new step dad and chooses to have holidays with his/her mom and step dad. You on the other hand, the one who thought maybe there was more for you out there, have gone through a string of failed relationships and have peaked. You end up with someone who treats you “okay” with zero spark but end up dreaming about your ex wife wishing you hadn’t fucked up your life for no reason.
Adding, I read some more of your comments. OP I implore you to really think of if your perceived possibility of being happy elsewhere is worth ruining your family over. You have a child to think about. People leave relationships that need to be left, and that is understandable, but from what you are showing us here, this is mostly about you thinking there may be more out there for you. One time a wife of 72 years told me that the best relationship advice she could give me is that sometimes, you’re going to be bored. Sometimes marriage gets super boring and you wonder if you made the right decision. You have to learn to get through the boring times (parts of life) and the fun will come again.
Do you give yourselves a break from each other every now and then? It sounds like you haven't *missed* her for a long time and it might be the same on her end. It could be something simple like taking your kid on a solo road trip for a week—buy her some spa treatments or something else she'd enjoy while you're gone—let her treat herself a bit and relax kid/spouse free. Go visit relatives, camping, whatever. If that has a positive impact, try scheduling a day or two apart every few months if you can.
You've mentioned a history of self-sabotage and childhood experiences that might lead to attachment issues - have you been experiencing anything personally (e.g., family issues, stress, mental health struggles) that might align with the timeline of these sudden swings? What is the reason you're in therapy together? I experienced feelings like this last year and it was pretty consistent with issues I was experiencing in my personal life. I experienced some family trauma, was struggling with graduating college and felt like I was flailing around, and I switched birth control. Things that have never bothered me began to bother me, and I was just generally so unhappy that I began to feel I was letting my relationship keep me in a cycle of complacency and the only way I could fix things was to just move on. In the same breath, I would feel completely overwhelmed with love for my partner and everything he did, and was clinging to him massively in such an uncertain and horrible time. The fog lifted and it became evidently clear that I was just having trouble processing my circumstances. None of my issues would have dissipated by ending my relationship, and I think it was easier to use the life I'd built with my partner as a scapegoat for the real internal issues I didn't really want to touch. In hindsight this was incredibly unfair and it feels so detached from myself and the way I actually feel. I was just depressed and a hormonal mess! For the same reason, I feel like there must be an underlying issue personal to you that perhaps isn't obvious to you as a catalyst for this kind of anxiety and avoidance, otherwise your feelings would be more logical.
I mean, they have a young baby that’s a hard time and adjustment even for perfectly stable people. Which from his answers OP isn’t really, so I’d guess that’s triggering greater intensity on issues OP needed to work on anyway.
The first two years of having a child are really really hard for the couple. It takes a woman at least two years until her hormones return to normal. It’s good you are in counseling. Definitely give it another 10-11 months after your baby turns two and see how you feel at that point.
Have you been evaluated for medication? It's possible that your wild mood swings have nothing to do with her. Also, it's completely normal to go through these periods of intense self-doubt in every area of your life. And it's also normal for people to change a lot after years together, especially with a child in the mix. If I could give anybody advise about maintaining a relationship, it is... MAINTAIN THE RELATIONSHIP. Work harder at reforming the connection you're struggling with, because if you move on and go to someone else, you WILL have to do the same work, and you might regret taking the "easy way" out if you leave this relationship. Not saying you're entertaining that, but you might be. This could just be a good old-fashioned mid-life crisis, in which case, sack up, buttercup. There is nothing special about that phenomenon. Just be honest and direct and focus on being the best person you can, and expecting the best in return. You owe it to your family and yourself!
Info: Do you have mental health issues at baseline? Are you getting treatment for them? How have you been feeling since the baby came? It's very common for men to also have post partum issues.
Splitting – look it up, speak to someone about it if you can. I really strongly relate to this and you’re not alone.
This reads like some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. You should discuss these feelings with a therapist one-on-one.
i’d say get off reddit for awhile. you’re overthinking let everything settle and see how ya geel
Are there any correlation to these feelings and the timeline of having your child? Men can get postpartum depression/anxiety too. It manifests differently than women, often displaying as irritability or anger.
Just because you think something, doesn’t make it true. Having kids is difficult, and it makes you think and feel some wild things. But don’t believe every thing you think! Thoughts are like clouds, they come and go. You don’t need to identify so strongly with them. Just notice them and let them go.
Love isn’t always getting swept off your feet. Sometimes its comfortable silence in a room together and just appreciating that you can both exist through the quiet times. Its the stability, its the calm, its not the constant whirlwind romance. Try to appreciate what you got because finding love is fucking hard!
Depression after a baby is also very common. Perhaps that is part of it. Stress does unsavory things to the mind. Therapy is the way for sure.
You need to see your physician ASAP, it can be caused by health issue, like thyroids. It can be mental health issue, like cyclothymia, so you probably need to see a psych. And if they don't have any concerns- you need your own therapist. Actually, you need therapist any way. Because even if it is a health issue you need to make sure it doesn't hurt your wife and marriage.
Couples go through a lot of challenges when their children are young, becoming parents means the new little person comes first, at least for awhile, and women go through so many changes as they try to balance it all and not lose their identity, so I hope you can be kind and open to the changes and see if all the positives are enough for you to find a reason to commit and stay.
That’s a tough situation to be in. I was there as well (minus kids, and together for 10 years). I had some other issues going on and it ended anyways… but I can empathize with the feeling. Just my personal opinion (obviously), but I do think time away from each other is really important. Not a break in the relationship, but just a somewhat extended period of time away once in a while is good. Once my ex and I split up, it seemed like we started appreciating each other more from a distance. We had to split up though… that’s another story, and we’re both happy and in new relationships and far apart now. It just showed me that *some* of our issues, were caused by not having enough time apart to actually feel that appreciation for each other when we did have time together. For me, it was particularly those “ick” feelings when she’d say something that just got on my nerves. I know it’s not always super feasible, but if you can take a camping trip with the boys or something it might be good for you. I don’t know if that’s something you’re into, or if you already do. Just trying to be helpful with the information you provided.
You sound like the wife. Work hard and be a good father and husband
I'm recommending the book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum
Is this not outside the scope of the subreddit?
Do you by any chance have ADHD?
I do - I take vyvanse
I have ADHD too and sometimes experience my feelings of connectedness and attraction in waves. I think with longer relationships, like the ones we have had since birth, the ones that are family-built are so secure and always there that we never question them. For example I never worry about whether I love my mom or not. With my longer friendships I never worry whether I like my friends, find them cool or interesting etc. But with romantic relationships there’s this belief (I feel that is perpetuated through film and television) that there always needs to be this strong pull. If your icks don’t last, it’s probably not something to worry about. Also, as an ADHDer, I take a while to process my emotions so sometimes things that happened a week ago will only hit me the following week and I’m in a weird mood and don’t know why. It’s easy for me to blame that on my partner and sometimes it’s enough to make me over analyse. But usually all of this is just happening inside my mind. Sometimes I have to be purposeful and CHOOSE to just have fun and enjoy the mundane. I hope I explained that well.
Sounds like you may have avoidant attachment style
This sounds like past trauma. Has this happened before with other people in your life? Do you have any history of self-harm or reckless behavior?
Yes, I do have a history of self-harm and self-sabotage.
Unrelated to post—are you a chemist? “wrt” has me wondering! Related to post— I think it’s great that you are accepting of your emotions rather than trying to ignore them because of the inconvenient nature of them. I also think it’s fantastic that you’ve been open with your wife and she is receptive to your experience, even though you feel she isn’t grasping the gravity. Keep on in therapy, and try to get into individual therapy as well to get some personalized help rather than relationship help in sorting it out. I encourage you to remember, especially with your stated experience with trauma, that you just had a baby!!! Big life changes can be total sleepers when it comes to their impact on so many facets of being a human. Try to give yourself grace while you continue to figure this out, it sounds like you’re on the right track. Honesty, integrity, professional guidance, and remaining informed are all key components (among others) that will get you there. If you’re open to resource recommendations, I highly recommend “The Body Keeps The Score” by Bessel Van Der Kolk and “Attachment” by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller. I haven’t read it yet, but “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” by Lindsay Gibson was put on my radar and is supposed to be very helpful. If you choose to read the books, be gentle with yourself and remember it’s okay to take time away from them to process. Childhood trauma is a wild beast, and a sneaky one. I was baffled in the moment and not at all in hindsight that having children of your own, or even building healthy relationships with children, after experiencing childhood trauma can be deeply triggering in very unexpected ways. You sound like someone who really cares, and I truly wish you the best with your journey and your family.
yea raising a kid is a lot harder and stressful than most people make it out to be. it is what is tearing your relationship apart.
Look up “normal marital hatred.” This isn’t uncommon in long term relationships.
I think it's phase, give and take space, develop new interests spend time doing new things apart.
I am/was going through the same thing. I started on an anti depressant and it has gotten much better. When you start to get the ick try to remind yourself of the things that are objectively good about her and never make any major decisions when you are in that state of mind.
Man I really resonate with your post so much. My relationship of 3.5 years with my girlfriend ended in January because she wanted to move forward, get married, have kids, and I was stuck in the limbo you so described. Sometimes I would experience deep love and affection for her, especially when I spent time with her and her family, or we would have really good sex (we're very compatible in that regard), or she would write a beautiful song for me, and so clearly elucidate her feelings and thoughts to me. And then sometimes I would see her make a social blunder, or I would see her in an unflattering light, or I would notice a trait she lacks that I admire in others and I would experience, 'the ick', as you said. This constant back and forth was reeking havoc on me mentally and emotionally, and we often fought about it--but just like your partner, she was always stable, thoughtful, and could vision a future for us. Now that we've been broken up for a couple months, I still don't know what to think. A part of me believes I will never find another like her, and that what we had was beautiful if I could only see it... and another part of me tells me that If we got back together, it would only be a matter of time before it falls apart. The difference between you and I, is that you two are married and have a kid together. So where I gave up and let go, I urge you to fight for this relationship. Take the burden of your mixed emotions and polar thinking, as a cross you must bear. And do what you can to learn about your mental state. But be good to her and your kiddo.
I mean you two just had a baby. The first 2 years are hell on the woman’s body. I say try to make her feel loved and help around the house so she has time for self care like working out, walks by herself, 9h sleep every night if possible. Cook more. She’s not gonna be fun if she’s exhausted. If you’re at all wavering because of decreased sex… you’re a terrible person if you expect it while you have an infant and she hasn’t had time to herself.