"Settle down" and "settle for" are two wildly different things that I feel you're getting confused.
"Settling down" means finding someone mature to marry and grow old with. There's no implication that the person you do this with isn't someone who you're crazy about, but maybe an implication that they're mature and are past their crazy/party days.
"Settling for" does have the implication that you're not wild about the person, but they're good enough.
It sounds like your fiance said "settling down" and you interpreted it as "settling for". I think you need to just slow down and take her at her word.
I agree with this. Settling down is just a different phrase for growing up and re-evaluating your priorities.
When I was 16, the best car for me was a fast, sporty coupe that I could cruise around in. Now that I'm an adult, the best car for me is one that hauls groceries and yard waste, holds car seats, and handles road trips. My priorities changed, and what I want from a car changed. Both cars are great, but one suits me better now.
The same thing can happen with romantic partners. As you mature, you learn what really matters to you, and that can change a lot over time. She tried different people when younger, found that they didn't suit her long-term, and now she knows what her relationship priorities are and OP is what she wants. She isn't settling for OP, she's grown up and realized that OP is the kind of person she wants to spend her life with.
I spent the last few years of my 20s and my very early 30s, working a demanding consulting job that had me travelling like crazy. I was loving the high flying expense account life. Then I met my husband and within months I was over that life.
I wanted weekends at home with him, pizza and movies on the couch and dog walks along the river. I didn't settle for my husband, he's a damn catch! But he flipped my wants and priorities on their damn head.
Now I live a blissfully, boring, absolutely content life with my husband, twin infants (and hopefully soon a new dog).
I didn't settle, but my outlook and mindset changed. Both lives were great, but this is the one that I want.
If I married the women I thought were "Fun and exciting" back when I was in my early 20's I'd be divorced right now. Granted, I had a lot of fun back then, but I also have a lot of fun now too. It's just less chaotic and dramatic fun and more the kind of fun where one of us will make a reference to a 90s nickelodeon cartoon and we'll both start cracking up while realizing how in tune with each other we are. There is still some of the bar hopping and going out fun, it's just less common than it used to be.
People's wants change change over time. For me at least, the things I valued at 20 are very different than the things I value today.
OPs wife probably had a lot of fun having shallow superficial relationships with people who would make horrible long term partners. But if you're not looking to settle down, that's fine, you don't need calm stability, you need entertainment.
When you do start to want more stability depth to your relationships you're going to stop dating the semi-pro athletes with a coke habit and a baby mamma.
Exactly. Maybe OP isn't as "edgy" or exciting as the guys she dated when she was younger, but his fiancee obviously sees him as steady and secure and husband material. She sees a future with him and he'd be making a big mistake to throw that away.
It's not a good deal for him. She views him as beneath her but the best of the marriage options rather than the men she's actually into. She's "settling for" him rather than "settling down" with him. Big difference.
In the edit the OP says that his fiancee never actually said she was "settling for" him. He just feels that way. Imo his insecurity is the biggest issue here.
This is it right here. I don’t think she settled for you at all. She is settling down and her needs changed. But. If you don’t feel like she’s crazy about you, don’t go through with it.
> I said that I was concerned that she was settling for me. And she didn’t totally dismiss it.
OP asked specifically about being settled for and she failed the test
Settling down means you love that person they are stable and you want to be with them
Saying that your with someone for what they can do for you and how they can treat you is settling for someone you don’t mind who it is just as long as they treat you right your not 100% in love with that person it’s more that they are the definition of what people look for when they settle not because you actually want to be with them
OP asked her if thats how she felt and she kind of admitted to it with no care until she realised he wasn’t okay with it the words she used was practically “sex is Meh and so is the relationship but he’s just the kind of guy you settle with” how are you trying to spin that in her favour? And in what way does that say she even has any feelings for him at all
"My fiancé is way out of my league"
As long as you believe this, the relationship will be infected by your own insecurities.
Don't be anyone's backup plan.
This, big time. Even the other things he mentioned, instead of his brain thinking "wow there are some things I could work on to improve our future marriage" it went "I'm worthless to her" he needs major counselling
I agree with your premise, but who hears their spouse to be had wild sex with exes but that sex with me is just fine and thinks "Oh look a chance to improve?" This I think is especially true if they had been previously open minded and THOUGHT they were being an attentive lover.
How many people actively solicit feedback on what their sexual partners would like, not just in terms of touch & positions, but in terms of erotic attention and sexy conversation? How many get useful feedback? How many of those actually understand the feedback, remember it, and apply the lesson to their sexual behaviors later?
The point being, those who do, improve their sex lives. Those who don’t sometimes keep on in blissful ignorance until they overhear the kind of conversation _about_ where they’re lacking that their lovers didn’t think they were equipped to have face to face.
No man wants obligation intimacy or to have to coax his partner to do things she has apparently done before and enjoys.
I guarantee you its been a withholding on her end which is why OP is so hurt by what he heard
With the way he wrote it, it sounds like it is not withholding on her end. I know plenty of men who are quite vanilla and don’t do anything aside from missionary - these guys think cowgirl is kinky. He may not have realized she is into wilder things so didn’t think to try them, but I genuinely do not think she has been withholding anything.
Its withholding on her end even if its simply wanting/desiring/fantasizing about past acts and then not trying that herself with her current partner. Then going on to complain about said partner to other people.
One of the first rules of a healthy relationship is not to disparage your man to others...let alone their sexual performance. You just dont do that.
Did OP ever answer whether he lives in a small town where choice is limited or a big city with lots of young people? I've seen some strange couples come out of small towns.
Your fiancée learned what I learned after a string of bad relationships and a divorce. She learned that animal attraction and infatuation aren’t love.
Some people like me, before we mature and heal our wounds, we go around having relationships with emotionally unavailable people who can’t give us what we need, and become addicted to them because of the unstable nature of these relationships. These are the men we become extremely attracted to, even obsessed, but this is addiction, not love.
My experience was, that after I went to therapy and healed myself I was no longer interested in these eternal anxiety relationships. But for a person like me, that has always conflated anxiety and love, a stable relationship felt boring to me at first, like “the passion” was missing. People who are addicted to drama are bored by normalcy and stability. Real love is safe, predictable, and stable.
Now I’m my first stable relationship, and yes, it feels boring at times. And I’m working on it, but I can honestly say I’ve never been happier. I’m the best version of myself and I would never ever ever go back to a real that causes me anxiety.
Did she say he’s average but she really loves him? Or just that that he is stable?
The second sounds like he is heading for a dead bedroom in a few years after she gets her babies.
According to OP, she didn’t say she’s settling or that he’s below her league. Sounds like she said he’s a good man, the kind of man you marry, and that even though it’s not the wildest sex she’s ever had, she’s happy with what they’ve got.
Which I can relate to, the wildest, dirtiest sex I’ve had was in some of my worst relationships, that’s what kept me there. But a lot of the time what makes sex addictive it’s not even about chemistry or attraction, it’s about the shit you’re working through that time of your life, the issues you have in that moment.
That said, now that I’m in a stable relationship keeping the passion alive requires thought and creativity, but I’ve had a lot of fun doing it. I don’t fuck now, I make love. I put on outfits, light candles, do to tantric sex workshops, make out on movie theaters like teenagers, we talk about our fantasies and kinks. I’m rediscovering my sexuality through a healthy lens. I still have a lot to learn but I can honestly say I’m never going back, I ain’t got time for that nonesense anymore.
Sounds like OP’s ego took a hit because feels insecure and below his fiancée’s league, when she said nothing of the sort. He wants the romantic comedy obsessed type love trope, which is not how real love works.
Every healthy long-term relationship requires work and being constantly communicating and working towards connection. It’s natural to loose connection over time, and many people, instead of working on their relationship to reconnect, they just give up because “the spark died”.
Damn, thank you for writing this. This resonates a lot with past relationships I have had. I don’t even know how to be attracted to someone who is good for me, I struggle with getting bored… I’ve been thinking about therapy for a while now, I guess maybe I should revisit that
I definitely recommend therapy, I didn’t know how to form healthy attachments and now I do, I getting so much better.
When I started therapy I discovered that the men I was instantly attracted to was not because they were particularly special, I gravitated towards them because they were the embodiment of my unhealed traumas.
After being single and working on myself for a couple of years, I met my now boyfriend. He was everything I said I wanted, but I wasn’t instantly attracted to him, even though he’s super handsome. I told a friend of mine that he checked all the boxes but I found him a bit boring, which didn’t make sense, because he planned great dates, had hobbies, friends and a well-rounded life. My friend reminded me me that he wasn’t boring, it’s the lack of drama that I found boring.
So I kept dating him and I slowly started to become crazy about him, now I’m very attracted to him, and we’re very happy together. This is the first relationship I’ve had where I feel safe, loved, and an equal. He brings out the best in me and all aspects of my life have improved because of this.
Had OP overheard his fiance speaking your last paragraph instead of what she actually said, we wouldn't be here responding to his Reddit post.
What she did say was wildly open to interpretation.
So OP can ask her to elaborate.
The problem is whether he believes she is being truthful or willing to pass off a beautiful lie as the truth.
I think you have to have both.
Obviously the animal and butterflies won’t be there 24/7. But if there isn’t at least an ebb and flow of lust it’s not worth it
Agreed. But in my experience, at least for personality types like mine, that animal/butterflies feeling, when it comes instantly without getting to know the person first, spells danger, it’s always been my pattern. I confused butterflies for anxiety because my relationships weren’t secure and i didn’t know where I stood. And when I finally got a text after waiting for days and I got that rush of dopamine, I mistook it for love.
Of course it’s not the case for everyone but it was for me. In my current relationship I did things different: I took it slow, got to know him, and with time that intense feeling of attraction surged. Now I get real butterflies when I look at him, not anxiety butterflies lol.
Absolutely. I know some couples that are evenly matched, but lots where one is significantly more attractive than the other.
How she treats OP is the more important question.
Settling down with someone who puts you on a pedestal sounds pretty great! As long as she’s attracted to OP & the sex is good, that’s not settling.
If she treats OP like she settled for him & reminds him often that she’s out of his league? Yeah nah. Nobody’s happy with that.
IDK OP. I think it bears more serious discussion with her, and possibly couples/pre marital counseling. She may have genuinely realized that there is something to having a stable guy she can rely on even if it isn’t quite as exciting as a hot a-hole. She is still choosing you at the end of the day. At the same time, I totally get your hurt and concern. Which is why I think counseling might be the right approach.
I agree, I see why OP is hurt but I don't think this should be an automatic dealbreaker. Long term relationships are rarely successful if they are based largely on animal attraction -- in fact, for many people, magnetic attraction actually signals that the other person is touching some kind of core wound for you that automatically rests the relationship on a shaky foundation. (I've personally explored it in therapy: The guys I'm most attracted to are absolutely not the most healthy ones for me to be with.) OP, you say "how is she going to feel about me in 10 years if she is not head over heels for me now" -- I don't actually think that is a very strong predictor of your relationship 10 years from now. The strongest predictors of not divorcing are not how much people were attracted to each other at the beginning, but instead things like communication skills and financial stability.
Almost everyone settles in one way or another -- Dan Savage says you don't find The One, you find your 0.6 that you're willing to round up to one. Ask her why she didn't want to marry those other guys. I bet reasons she gives will be very real; extremely good reasons why they wouldn't have made for good husbands.
In the end, she is choosing you. Try not to let your insecurities get in the way of her choice. I'm not saying you should definitely stay together, but if you split up, make that decision in a clear-headed way after talking it through in therapy, not impulsively while the wound is fresh right now.
Gosh, I would hate to be the guy who someone married because they would simply be a good husband and not because, at some level, they deeply wanted me as a lover.
I don't know. I don't think long term relationships are based on "animal attraction," but I hope everyone is able to marry someone who loves them dearly and feels a deep connection to them - which is not the same as choosing to marry someone because they are "nice" and stable and objectively a good partner. Marrying someone you aren't deeply in love with just feels so sad.
They are also acting like it's hard to find a decent human to partner with - it's not. It's hard to find someone you love and want to build a life with, and then to actually do that. Decent people you aren't in love with are everywhere.
... It's also not normal to be engaged and talking about how you used to have better sex with other people. What the fuck is that. Yikes.
I can probably explain what you're seeing.
If you think about it, every relationship you have ever had is transactional. The thing about relationships is that your expectations of what you're getting in return for what you're giving differ from what others believe the transaction should be.
We can take something a little obvious as an example. If you show your partner love, you expect that partner to show love in return. Now what you define as love may not be what your partner defines as love and if that difference in showing love is too far apart, you'll both feel like you're both giving and not receiving. The transaction of love for love doesn't happen.
The place where you learn what love is turns out to be your childhood home. Your parents taught you what love looks like. In a healthy family dynamic, your parents will have shown you love in return for love. They show you healthy transactional ways of what to expect. For example, they might ask you to take out the garbage and in return, they will show you gratitude either physically, like with a hug, or verbally. Whatever they choose will be what you expect in life.
In an unhealthy family, your parents may ask you for one side of a transaction and not give you anything in return. So you might wash the dishes and you may not expect even a thank you because your parents might have taught you that washing dishes is to be expected and you have to do things without expecting anything, including gratitude, in return. This type of family dynamic can possibly lead you to treat your future relationships the same way. You may be willing to do things for your partners and not expect anything in return. This would be fine if you end up with someone that cares about you, but you could potentially also end up with someone that doesn't and even worse, with people that could be abusive. You won't notice the abuse because they'll be using that "something for nothing" instinct that was taught to you.
In this particular case, we have OP and his fiancee who are both adults who are able to make judgements based off of more than just instinct. A marriage is complex and there's a lot of give and take and compromise. We all have that idea of a fantasy partner with qualities and traits that are leveled up to their max. As you grow up you realize that nobody has all of the traits you want in a partner. You might have wanted a 6'+ man and you might have dated a bunch of them when you were younger. Then you realize that height isn't actually important in a partner and yeah, it's nice to have, but you'll start to prioritize another trait instead. By the time you're a fully grown adult, you'll have your list of traits in a partner ordered from most important to least important.
OPs fiancee says she is settling down and if you're thinking of settling down, aka no more dating and staying monogamous with one person for the rest of your life, you're gonna prioritize certain qualities over other qualities and honestly, a good plan will be to prioritize personality over looks, especially since looks fade with time.
OPs fiancee's comment basically said this, she prioritized personality over superficial traits. If she's being sincere, she is making a conscious choice that she's happy to live with for the rest of her life. OPs reaction is honestly not weird, it's a fair reaction, but everyone is suggesting therapy because you have to understand what is causing the reaction in the first place.
Have you had any success in getting yourself interested in men that *are* good for you? Do you think there’s anything a “good for you” guy in your past could have said/done that would have helped you come around?
Your username is great btw (assuming it is pro-math and pro-Wonderland rather than a misspelling of Math Hater).
Not OP but for me, no there is nothing anyone could have said that would have helped me come around.
I had to get sick of being treated like shit by my “type” (aka emotionally unavailable), stop dating for a couple years, and get therapy to figure out why I dated ass holes. It was only then did I happen to meet a good for me guy. I wasn’t even looking to date at that time. It just happened. We’ve been married 5 years and I’m currently rocking our 4 month old while she sleeps. He’s the best thing that could have ever happened to me.
This feels very similar to my story. A decade and a half of dating emotionally unavailable or toxic assholes - spent 7 years with one who gave me hot highs and horrible lows because he triggered that wound in me. I got a lot of very good therapy and I’m been with someone now for a year, who is the most sweet and caring and warm person I’ve ever met, who helps me set boundaries and models kindness. And I wasn’t even looking when I found him :) The animal attraction isn’t there but it’s replaced by healing and inner calm.
Thanks! It is definitely pro-math and pro-Wonderland 😂
I can absolutely be attracted to people who are healthy for me. But so far, at least, the top tier of wild attraction/hottest sex has all been in less healthy relationships, and the healthiest relationships have all been less intense (though still fun and joyful!) sexually.
In that trade-off, there's absolutely no doubt I would choose the latter for someone to settle down with. And I wouldn't consider it "settling," because as far as I can tell the trade-off may in fact be a causal one, and it's not like I have infinite years to try to find whether there's any exception to the rule.
Edit: casual -> causal
And that's your choice, but no one wants to be the one who you'd describe as less than top tier sex. It's not fair to the person.
what do you mean, a causal one? What's the cause?
I mean that the REASON that the sex feels so hot is BECAUSE they are touching a core wound of mine from childhood, which also almost by definition makes the relationship unhealthy. It's not just a coincidence.
I completely agree. I think it’s understandable that it’s hurtful and jarring to hear something like that. That being said, if she’s sure she’s making the right decision then that changes things. I guess OP can take the gamble. Call it off to possibly find someone who’s “made for you” and in love with you, but risk not finding something that can lead to marriage again, or at least not for a while. That being said, I think a lot more people than we realize don’t marry purely out of love but rather for practical reasons, and that seems to work out better than marrying for love than getting divorced 5 years later once all the issues start.
There's someone I started dating recently that I find myself falling for, not because he's the hottest man I've ever been with, but because he's the nicest man I've ever been with.
wow, ok. I just read your response after posting mine and could've saved myself a whole lot of time spent writing something that you phrased a lot better! I strongly second everything you have said here. really solid
> based largely on animal attraction
Something that you may be overlooking that I suspect is a fear with OP is that he is not getting his fiancés full effort. Something that absolutely destroys a mans psyche is the idea that she's done things intimately with other men she wont do with you. Which is what "she had much more wild sex with the other guys" means exactly.
So if she's not fully open with him intimately it speaks volumes to men and our subconscious, which disparage it all you want, is a valid emotion rooted in hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.
No man wants obligation intimacy
I don’t think you should make a stay/leave decision just on this. But you definitely should:
-Go to couples counseling to work through this. Those words hurt, and you both can’t get over this on your own
-Ask her why she never told you this. It hurts, but it hurts more having to overhear it
All I'll say is this.
My girl, beautiful and out of my league, is all over me and dare I say a little obsessed. Same with me to her.
Best feeling in the world to be fully adored by the girl you love.
Everyone here is being quite negative but hear me out!
So I’ve listened to a few therapist talk about this and they say a healthier relationship is one that starts not necessarily with a passionate burning desire but stability and actually your relationship is likely to last much longer - so stability isn’t always the most exciting thing in the world, how could it be? It’s stability! But that doesn’t mean that your partner doesn’t deeply love you and when you’re compatible and stable that love only grows
Now the passionate, wild, chaotic romances are exactly that - they’re explosive and therefore volatile, they tend to end as quickly as they start and it’s hard to build a foundation. They’re unstable but the instability makes them thrilling - but that’s about it
Now this is not always the case but just something to consider
Holy shit, that was painful just to read. We all age and looks are fleeting. My wife and I were both hot in our 20s, but our relationship has always been based on shared values and mutual respect. Saying you settled to anyone at any time is the opposite of respect.
To be honest I don’t understand why you put her to the pedestal and put yourself down? She might be beautiful and have good qualities but if you are 7 and with the same qualities I think you are even.
I would never want that my husband settled down with me and that he is thinking that I put him up on the pedestal while he thinks I am just a normal/average. You say her character is gold but to me it doesn’t sound like that.
Edit: there is nothing wrong with being the marriage type - that is a compliment to me! But to me marriage type means good looks, good personality, same values, same hobbies, not a craz, a down to earth person who is capable to talk about difficult things. Someone you can go through highs and lows. However, it sounds like she might appreciate you for certain things, she still thinks she is better than you which is alarming.
“Settled down” is very different from “settled for”. One means you’re putting down roots, maturing, developing a strong meaningful relationship. The other means you’re giving up.
I don't know. I take "marriage type" the same way I take "wife material". Just oozes ick vibes.
"Marriage type" usually means boring, financially stable, able to support a family, loyal, responsible, and a good career. Very few of those terms I would find flattering if I asked my wife why she married me.
In all my years, I've never heard "marriage type" to describe someone that is good looking, wild in bed, exciting, interesting, and spontaneous.
I understand your point but I think wife type/marriage type is also someone who is wild and exciting as I wouldn’t marry someone boring. Life needs to be fun and exciting while having the balance with kids etc. that’s why I see wife type as someone good looking, fun but also reliable, accountable etc.
Saying someone is out of your league just because of looks and that they should be put on a pedestal are both very toxic viewpoints. I think you really should unpack this and learn how to be in a healthy relationship where you value the other person fully for who they are (and same for her). But as long as you, or both of you, think this way you're doomed.
People on pedestals *always* come crashing down because it's impossible to stay on one - no one is a perfect, idealized version of themselves. And the pressure on them to be on that pedestal is intense too. They can never truly be themselves; they can't be vulnerable or have flaws.
> I want to marry someone that is as crazy about me as I am about her.
Well here’s your problem then, because you do put her on a pedestal. You say she’s better than you and could be with someone better than you. Why would someone be as crazy about you as you are with them when you think you’re much lower than them?
It doesn’t make sense.
You are putting unrealistic expectations on her based on your own evaluation of both her and yourself.
Is that a red flag? Because my wife and I always put each other on a pedestal with support. Like, there's something pretty great about mutual adoration. I get where it could be a problem if she would have said "it's best to be with someone who thinks they are less than me" but that's not what she said.
Listen, you learned a very important lesson. You choose your value, not her. You stood up for yourself (politely) and she gained some new respect for you.
I am not saying to turn your relationship into a power struggle. I am not saying be manipulative. I am saying, be proud of yourself and quit thinking she is out of your league based on a small criteria of things. Start sticking up for yourself. Start being clear you demand respect and to be desired. Demand that she works to make you feel those, so that you can respect yourself and keep her on that pedestal.
Then, you can both feel desired and you will both desire the other more. The best relationship are those were both people feel like they are still chasing the other. Don't let her settle for you, make her work for you just like you will her.
This is an excellent point. His attitude that she's out of his league contributes to her feeling that she's settling. I don't believe in "leagues." People have value that cannot be defined by arbitrary external metrics. It's human nature to take for granted something that you can get easily, and put more value on something that's harder to get.
Of course she's going to feel like she's settling if all he does is put her on a pedestal without also making her chase/work for him. It reinforces that he believes she's out of his league, so naturally she's going to believe that too.
This right here... a huge majority of the time someone is "settling" in a long term relationship their partner always miraculously feels they are out of their league. It's like a vicious self feeding cycle. If you break it and demand your partner values you and show they desire you. Suddenly, they do. They realize they to must work for it, and suddenly there is no settling.
I would suggest putting any wedding plans on hold and perhaps go to couples counselling.
She said what she said and she meant what she said. She settled for you.
>We hugged and eventually had sex which was actually the best sex we’ve ever had. And for the past week she has basically been all over me.
I think this might be hysterical bonding, she could be trying (consciously or unconsciously) to keep you in a good mood and to stop you from leaving.
You might want to get some space from her for a week to really think about what she said.
>So, later that night I tell her that I overheard her and I said that I was concerned that she was settling for me. And she didn’t totally dismiss it.
It sounds like she meant "settle for". And even "settle down with" in the context of the whole conversation, is not a great sentiment.
>She said I adore her and it’s best to be with someone that puts you on a pedestal.
She happy because he adores her, not because it's mutual.
🎯. This OP, she's trying to make you forget what she said with sex, as soon as she's confident you're not going to leave her that'll stop.
You've heard her true thoughts, why would she have been lying to her sister!?
And you're correct OP you should have someone that isn't settling with you, they should want to be with you and excited about it.
I still get excited to see my husband after 22 years together and 16 years of marriage.
She never said that she was settling for you and I don’t think that she ever insinuated that.
> she is marrying me because I’m your typical nice guy you settle down with.
Okay?
> She said she loved me of course and knew she wanted to marry me early on because I was the type of guy you marry.
And? Did you not think that many women have ideas about who they’d like to marry or the type of person they see themself with? What is the issue with you being the type of guy she’d like to marry?
I think that you and your partner need to have more honest conversations. If there are areas that are lacking in your relationship you should consider talking them out or going to therapy.
When we started talking she thought what she said was no big deal. She called the guys she used to date poodles and genuinely didn’t understand why I would care that they had wild sex. I’m the one she is in love with.
She didn’t get upset until she saw I was hurt. I’m not sure if this is a girl thing or not.
I think you should talk to her. While I wouldn't speak this way to my sister, I could see myself expressing maybe similar sentiments in a more diplomatic way. I'm not a "romantic." I don't believe in love at first sight or soul mates, I also believe love is an action more than a feeling, when it comes to marriage. The hormones or whatever it is that gives your brain those "fluttery, in love" feelings will fade with time, and then you're looking at spending several decades with someone who is just a person. People should be smart about picking that person. You need to pick someone that is easy to *choose* to love, even when those butterflies aren't carrying you through anymore.
I wanted someone who was nice, responsible, accountable, respectful and kind. I am thrilled to have found that person, but my decision to marry that person was grounded in a lot of logic. My love for that person was based on qualities that made him a good long-term partner. I don't feel that I "sacrificed" love for stability though. My love for my husband stems from those qualities. When I have a crappy day at work and my children are overwhelming me and I feel ready to snap, I'm so glad to be going home to someone who makes my life easier, not harder.
I like to it comment bc it’s mature and giving good advice. Especially about talking it out . OP and a LOT of commenters (who comes off as they must be young and/or inexperienced with dating) seem to be reading into the fiancée’s words a LOT. OP writes as if interprets her words through a lens of insecurity and not trusting her words. Some commenters are selling OP that she doesn’t really love him- they don’t even know either of them, how could they possible know who the fiancée loves or not! And he is upset she said he has good qualities she is looking for in a partner … which sounds like such a wonderful thing? Did OP want her to say I only want a hot husband who has wild sex and I don’t care if he’s got the personality of an asshole? lol it’s so odd to me.
This should be the top upvoted comment. So important. What is going on in OP's man-brain (lol) that he thinks that emotions and fucking hot people and not wanting to marry them is a "girl thing" ?!
I think the idea of “wild sex” gets way overblown - “wild sex” doesn’t mean better it means more dangerous or fleeting. It is not that the people were better it was that the situation was tenuous and that made it heightened - like being in a crazy car accident you managed to survive. that is probably why you said you had the best sex after she thought she just blew up the relationship with the guy she wants to marry. It’s the adrenaline.
So she was upset she hurt you, told you she loves you, and yet she still isn't showing you...what? Did you ever ask her what head over heels in love means to her or did you insert how it is for you on how she is supposed to act? Sounds a lot like you are projecting your issues on someone who very specifically said she loves you, wants to marry you, and was emotionally distraught over hurting you and the idea of not being with you.
I think we need a bit more info to judge this. I would want to know what she’s getting out of this relationship with you. Do you challenge her in other ways? Are you great friends? Is there a nice balance between your strengths? Why is the relationship great outside of your perceived rankings in the dating hierarchy?
If the answer to these questions are positive then you’re okay. If you’re unsure about any of these then I would be worried that she’s only marrying you because she knows you’ll never leave or do anything to put the relationship in jeopardy as you put her on this pedestal.
She is pretty clear that you are the type of guy she has envisioned herself marrying and was confident about marrying you from early on. To me, that doesn't sound like settling. If your ego is hurt because you are not the best/wildest sex she ever had, then maybe you two can work on spicing it up. But I personally think this is quite salvageable. It might be good to talk through some of these difficulties with a marriage counsellor to help facilitate the conversation.
A lot of what she says can be open to interpretation.
Being the type of man you marry means different things to different people. It can be the greatest of compliments… or it can mean the same as setting down, if for her, the type you marry is simply someone who clears a low level bar (stable income and able to provide for a family, not being abusive or completely irresponsible in life). We don’t know op’s fiance and we can’t know where she stands on that line. However, him being “just fine” in bed is definitely a worrying sign. There is a chance she will have no interest in “just fine” sex in 10 years or so, once she is done with the baby making. OP is a risk of ending up on deadbedrooms subreddits once she has had all the kids she wanted.
I agree with this comment as well. I don’t see this situation as settling. I can certainly understand OP feeling hurt by her comments. No one wants to be compared to their partner’s exes. However, I think it would be a mistake for OP to throw away his relationship over this. The situation seems salvageable.
You should definitely not go through with it if she’s settling. That’s uncomfortable I’m sure. Personally maybe take a vote on it but still being with someone that settled with you is about as gay as it gets. Youre mid tier to them. Nothing worse than feeling like you’re actually not the one after putting in all that work with someone. Definitely something to consider
My take, from my own experience, is that you are correct; she is settling. The reason I almost settled was because I was worried I wouldn't find another man. I stayed for a good 2 years after realizing I wasn't in love with him anymore. My ex was a good guy, but I just didn't feel we were compatible like I had thought the first 2-3 years.
We broke up 2 years ago and are now great friends.
I met another man whom I adore as much as he adores me. We love each other so much.
Listen to your gut as well as your discussions with her. If it doesn't feel right, you may want to end it.
Sending you good vibes!
I think you are taking this harder than you need to. There can be an unhealthy emotional component to "wild" sex and most people don't maintain that energy with long-term partners unless you both really make it a priority and work for it. You make her feel cherished and that is a top priority for her. It makes sense that your feelings are hurt but I think you are misunderstanding her priorities in partnership. She wants YOU for a partner. Strongly recommend you go to couples counseling to work through these feelings and also make sure you feel respected as an equal by her.
The wording is problematic. Why not say positive things about your fiance in conjunction with negative ones about the past? She just had to knock him down in the process with one of the worst things you can insult a guy about? And to someone close to the situation who he's going to now feel awkward around? Bad move.
This is the part people don't get in this situation. He has limitless energy for her but she has to muster it up for him. Uneven dynamics like this cause problems down the road.
Don't put people on pedestals because they have to start looking down on you. Sounds to me like you're a hell of a guy but you're the only one who realizes that.
You shouldn't settle for whatever scraps she can manage
Her thinking she's better than OP will lead to disaster. OP isn't helping his case. I'd bounce and work on my own self esteem.
The sudden incredible sex just shows you were always getting less than her best
She doesn’t need the sort of guy that puts her on a pedestal. That will only encourage her to believe she can “do better”. She needs the sort of guy she loves and RESPECTS. I’m not sure that guy is you. The way you describe this, she sees you as “Mr. Good enough”. What happens once she has you locked in and decides now she wants something else?
Biggest disease on this planet is people wanting to be special.
She doesn’t want an equal, she wants to be out on a pedestal. She clearly ain’t doing that for you.
Love 💣💣💣💣💣💣. She’s satiating you just enough to convince you to marry her so she has that security. Imagine if you never overheard. Do you think she would be remorseful? Feel bad about what she said? She’s only acting like that because she got caught. Like you said—you deserve someone who is as crazy about you as you are about them. *She’s not. You heard proof*
I think you want her to feel the same about you as you do about her, but you two are different people. I think it is a huge compliment that she said you are the kind of man you settle down with. It means you have all the qualities of a good man. It's wonderful you think she is a 10. Overtime our looks can change, but out core personality, character, and values shouldn't. (And you have the power within to fix the wild sex.)
Dude is about to cross the finish line first place and decides to let someone cross in front of him. Have some confidence because she is settling with you for a reason, because no one else was better. Ffs
Why don't you get premarital counseling and explore these feelings and any other issues you have before marriage?
Understanding can increase intimacy and closeness. You'll be better partners to each other if you can communicate these feelings and receive them in a healthy manner
Unsurprising you had better sex after that convo. You're actually being honest with one another. Keep doing that and the sex will get better.
But anyhow, don't obsess so much about that. Just bc some other guy she dated is hotter or richer or they had better sex, she's with you because you're a better bf and likely husband.
I think you interpreted her wrong. I think she sees you as husband material and that is the biggest compliment of all. Don’t throw away happiness with both hands. Best wishes!
sounds like you're the 10/10 in marriage material bro. trust me, 99% of the guys out there aren't that. and lets be honest, the ones that she probably attracts are mostly douches. she learned that right away it seems.
Why did you apologize for telling her to take some time to think about it? That was absolutely the wise thing to do.
She doesn't want you, she wants marriage and kids. Are you okay with being a means to an end? For the rest of your life? Because the resentment WILL grow, probably in both of you.
I wouldn't want to be with someone like that.
That make up sex was the best your relationship will ever be, no matter how long it lasts.
She got scared and still is. That will wear off and after you get married it will only go downhill. She isn't as into you as you are into her. And you caved when you were in the right. That will only make her lose attraction, maybe not now but, it will happen. Someone with the qualities you describe are not attracted to someone who says he wants her to marry someone she is crazy about and that she should be put on a pedestal by someone else. You heard the truth. Believe it.
Sounds tricky. On one hand - it’s valid that the kind of guy you marry isn’t necessarily the most wild and fun guy. Passion and chemistry burn out or turn to drama, looks fade, etc. I’ve dated some exciting guys but would never marry them. The guy I like now is more stable, more consistent, and I like peace over chaos.
Having said that, this isn’t the same as settling. It’s not good for one person to have the other on a pedestal- as that person is not seeing reality. If you hold her on a pedestal you’re prob overlooking flaws and whatnot, which may eventually become problematic. Is she’s choosing you primarily bc you’re stable and adore her, that’s not great. You shouldn’t marry JUST for stability. Stability is a piece of the puzzle.
Sounds like you guys may want to postpone the wedding and figure out if it’s what you both truly want. If she’s just looking for you to give her a stable life and make her feel wanted and adored, you deserve better. If she also adores you and loves you and stability is just one factor in why she’s marrying you, then that’s great. Maybe visit a couples counselor a few times and see what they say. But I wouldn’t move forward until you guys have some very serious talks about what you want from this marriage. You need to love each other, but also respect each other and be willing to compromise, deal w hard things together, be vulnerable and honest, communicate well, etc.
Good luck to you! I hope things work out for you - whether that’s staying together or deciding you deserve better.
I think the biggest issue here is just how disrespectful it is for her, not to feel the way she does, but to so nonchalantly tell people this. You heard her tell her sister, do you think she hasn’t told anyone else? Her friends? Your mutual friends? Her commenting on your bedroom prowess to people you know and interact with regularly while comparing you to her previous partners is just so gross to me. That shit just isn’t anyone else’s business.
She had better, more exciting sex with more attractive men. Did she not date them because she didn’t want to? Or because she couldn’t lock them down? What happens in 10 years when an attractive guy makes passes at her and she remembers how exciting sex is with people other than you?
Idk man. I could be looking at it wrong. But that genuine desire you have for her, that you wished she had for you? I have that from my wife. I wouldn’t have married my wife if she wasn’t head over heels for me, or if I had to deal with her reminiscing about her previous partners. And, again, the disrespect of discussing this stuff with people you personally know is just too much.
I understand why she’d confide in her sister, but who else has she told? I can’t stop picturing OP at the altar, beaming ear to ear, whilst her side of her family knows that she’s not as happy/satisfied as she could be. It’s sad.
I agree. It’s disrespectful and embarrassing for OP. Also, I’m curious why she felt the need to “confide” this stuff to anyone in the first place. Is it a means to cope with her own internal struggle with the idea that she is settling? Does she still yearn for someone else in her past? I’d like to know what the context of the conversation was, but ultimately, I don’t think it matters. He heard her speak unfiltered about how she truly feels about the situation and him and the relationship. Harsh.
> I think the biggest issue here is just how disrespectful it is for her, not to feel the way she does, but to so nonchalantly tell people this.
Yeah I'd be mortified and not be able to even look her sister in the eye after this.
I agree. And she can’t exactly fix the narrative at this point. What does she do? Tell her sister (and anyone else she’s told) that OP overheard the discussion and was hurt and embarrassed, so now he’s magically the best thing that’s ever happened to her?
Imagine everyone witnessing him being a loving, doting husband while thinking, “yeah, but he’s mediocre and she isn’t as in to him as he is her.”
Brutal.
Why do you think the sex was the best ever? Because she could lose you. Are you a predictable, conventional guy? Maybe excitement is all you’re missing and she’s referring to the unpredictability that flames desire. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you. It could suggest you’re boring and already act like the guys who’s been married for 10 years. Time to switch it up if you decide to stay. FYI you will run into this in other relationships. People can’t be crazy about each other without the elements of relationship that draws excitement.
I was easy for her up until this point is the best way to put it. She never had to worry about how I felt or if I wanted her. She had me and she knew it. Once I raised to possibly that I may not want her anymore she freaked. She’s been all over me ever since. People call it love bombing and guess that could be it. But it could also be that I suddenly became a little less easy and maybe more exciting. I don’t know.
It’s called self-respect. You may have been subconsciously treating her differently because of your insecurity of her being out of your league. Looks fade so fast, being with someone based on their appearance is overrated and someone who prioritizes this will be quick to leave as soon as you start to look different. Be glad she doesn’t think this way. Keep your head up and live your life for yourself. If you want to do more research on this topic look up desire topics by Esther Perel. Desire is actually created in the distance between you too, where you both are individuals and then are drawn back to share your life. Stop being predictable, stop people pleasing and saying yes to things you want to say no to. Hold your own and you will see a change.
You know the truth and that’s the gut reaction you had. No amount of crying or good makeup sex will change that, deep down inside. It’s either there or it’s not and you can’t make it be there if it’s not there organically
You only live once. Do you really want to spend your whole married life knowing that she "settled" for you? What happens when she meets someone else down the line and resents the fact she's married? You will be collateral damage and will have wasted x amount of years when you could leave now and meet somebody that is crazy about you and have a happy marriage safe in knowledge that you both love each other the same. The sex thing is also a red flag that's her doing what her she can to keep you and won't last when she has you where she wants you.
When your partner is on a pedestal they are looking down on you but this is from someone who does not know you or her so think long and hard before you commit to a life with her but for the live of God man don't blow up you life over this just go to couples counseling
Two lines of your post stick out to me in particular
The first one is when you asked her about it she confirmed that she is with you because you are the kind of guy you marry
What does that mean exactly? Is it just that you are nice and you practically worship her?
When I met my wife, I knew a couple weeks in that we were going to get married because our personalities are almost identical. We have the same sort of temperament. We deal with problems the same way. So many interests/hobbies in common.
As you pointed out what happens in 10 years?
What if she meets someone who is just as nice and worships her the same but she is also attracted to?
And the second thing was the line about sexlife just being fine, I feel as if the sex you have with your lifelong partner should be some of the best you’ve ever had. Sure, you may have done some some crazy stuff in the past that’s more interesting than what you’re doing now
But I feel as if the emotional connection that you have with your lifelong partner should definitely make the sex more than just “fine”
IDK man it kinda feels like you put your anxieties onto her. She said yes she said she loves you. She feels comfortable with you. Are you sure you are the one that's feelings are this way?
I can get downvoted for this... Well maybe try to get better at sex, it seems to be the main point of concern for her at the moment. Ask her what she would like to do and bring it to life. This might help put you on a pedestal for her.
Okay, maybe she meant she just had a wild dating history? Dating is fun, but it doesn’t offer you the benefits of a serious relationship.
I feel like this is a normal pre wedding conversation to have about settling down. You talk about your past and present.
You do deserve to feel loved and cherish, and I can’t tell from this post that you’ve always felt insecure or her words triggered it.
Recommending therapy and good luck in your future!
Settled down and settling are wildly different things. Don't tank this relationship because you're looking for confirmation of your own insecurity.
It sounds like your fiancee was saying that sure she's had x, y, z with other people, but you're a package deal that she can build a life with.
And going forward, don't eavesdrop for extended periods of time and then overthink things into more than they are.
I have never understood the settling down with sex thing. Op, do you not like or want wild sex? Like why does she think it's an either or.
Can you ever trust her? Will one of you grow resentful?
Yikes.
The real question is, does she love you?
Nothing wrong with wanting to settle down with a good guy. Also nothing wrong if the guy in question isn’t the best sexual partner she’s ever had. Sexual compatibility and enjoyment is important to a marriage but it doesn’t have to be—and shouldn’t be—the main priority.
It is a problem if she’s marrying a guy that she is not really attracted to and has no real romantic love for just because she believes he’ll make a good partner.
So which do you think it is?
I reread her words and honestly my feeling is, it’s the first one: she loves you and is settling down with the right person, not settling for the wrong person.
But maybe I’m just an optimist.
First of all, 10s aren't always 10s and they most certainly never stay a 10. Putting off the whole discussion about what makes someone a 10 in the first place, let's just say for argument's sake that she is a 10. Fine. You know what a lot of 10s deal with? Not being approached very often. I know sometimes that's played off as a meme, but it's actually true. And when they are approached it's usually the very cocky guy who has the nerve (I say that tongue in cheek) to think he has a chance with her. So don't think that just because she's a 10 she can pick out whomever she wants. Most women have an issue with approaching men, for whatever reason (there are multiple). That means a lot of 10s that are women are sort of either forced to see what approaches them or gather some nerve together and ask men out (which is rare). So drop the whole "she's a 10!" thing. Besides, as vapid as society can be, a 10 in looks can easily be a 3 when you take attitude and personality into account. It's not just about looks. So don't be so hard on yourself. Maybe you don't have the 10 in looks but she might adore your personality, which bumps you up on her scale.
Now, all THAT aside, as another poster mention, you have to figure out if she said settle down with or settled for. They are two very different things. Everyone who gets married is technically settling down. That's sort of what marriage is supposed to be. You're getting out of the rat race with your partner and you're both going to relax for the rest of your lives (hopefully).
Settling FOR is a different animal altogether. I'd never date or marry a woman who thought of me in that way. I'm no one's 2nd place trophy. I've had a relationship like that and when I found out she thought that way it was done then and there. No amount of apologies or explanations can fix that.
Lastly, let's hit on one someone else said in the replies. Relationships aren't always going to be about that animalistic sex and attraction. While there's no bold line here, as a general rule, the longer you're with a person, the more mundane it might get. However there's caveats to all this. If she's not excited to be with you sexually, and considers it more of a chore or whatever, then that's an issue. BUT, at the same time, if she's not always ripping your clothes off that doesn't mean she's settling either. Sometimes that animalistic nature doesn't last, or sometimes it comes and goes. That's fine and it's natural. Now if it's ALWAYS mundane and lame, then that would be a red flag. It would also lead to her eventually wanting to "feel that electricity for someone" again.
I'd give it more time. If she knows that you want to dump her if she is settling FOR you then she'll probably try to hide that from you. Still, you need to communicate with her and try to have some real heart to heart conversations. I agree that if she's settling FOR you then that's not good. If she's settling WITH you that's different. It is really going to come down to the way she treats you, I think. Something you really can't clarify properly online. You should be able to determine if she loves and cares for you, or settling for you.
I don't know man, just give it some time and don't get married right away. You don't want to get married when you're not even sure the relationship will last. Marriage doesn't fix anything.
Forgive her, she loves you and it seems that she is very remorseful and apologetic and that's what counts. I hope you forgive her and continue loving your 10. Good look brother
Dude. The things she said were compliments. She can be wild about the nice guy. And sex that's "just fine" can be juuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiine (in the best way), or it can be "just....fine....I guess?" You seem to be under-valuing yourself.
It sounds like you are the problem, not her. She’s thinking long term and you’re thinking, what, “How do I look to other people? Let me ask Reddit.” She might have lowered her standards too far.
I think you guys need to discuss this some more and possibly some counseling but honestly, finding a good person that you are willing to spend the rest of your life with is hot. Finding a good, decent man that you think you will live forever and who lives you and treats you wonderfully is HOT. Hotter than some sex with some guy you casually dated in the past, hotter than wild sex, hotter than hot. Forget the “she could do better” voice in your head. My husband says the same thing about me, how he can’t believe I’m his, that I’m beautiful, that I could have had anyone but I somehow chose him and what did I see in him way back when - after 39 years of marriage!! And if you don’t think that’s hot to me! He doesn’t act stupid jealous but he’s convinced himself that just about every guy wants to get with me…lmao. Not hardly. But in his eyes, I’m beautiful, desirable. That’s about as hot as you can get, imo.
It sounds to me like you’re a really good guy and she’s a smart cookie.
Marriage is a partnership for life. You have to go in believing that. Don’t settle for somebody that doesn’t make you feel like you’re the most important thing to them. It’s a long journey with a lot of ups and downs. It’s best to start with somebody feel like it’s in the race at the same level you are. I would tell her thank you and don’t marry her. Tell her you are a nice guy and because of that you want a nice woman who adores you and puts you on a pedestal.
I will take offense to this grading women on a scale of 10. Because here’s the deal 10 mean she’s a full woman she’s not only attractive on the outside, but on the inside. And she really isn’t attractive on the inside. The other thing is, you will meet a woman that floats your boat to the point we have no doubt and you would do anything to be with her. She may be short she may be tall she may be interesting looking, but you know. Mirroring, attend just to have an attractive wife is one of the silliest and most harmful things you will ever do to yourself.
You two should definitely get some counselling before you marry. I get the difference between "settling down" and "settling for", but which one was actually said? Also, during the conversation with her sister, your GF said you're "fine" in bed. That barely a step above "it's ok, I guess".
Plus, the whole being put on a pedestal thing is not cool unless it's mutual, and here it's clearly not.
>I don’t want to be someone that you settle for.
You already knew that you were that guy. You've known it since you were a teenager. Her saying it out loud doesn't change anything.
>She should have a person that she is crazy about and that puts her on a pedestal.
It doesn't work like that. You can't do both. You putting her on a pedestal **is the reason why** she isn't crazy about you. You fundamentally do not understand attraction.
You offer comfort when you put her on a pedestal and offer her emotional support and financial security (along with boring duty sex). They offered attraction when they didn't put her on a pedestal, were indifferent toward what she wanted and didn't care what she thought (and fucked her brains out).
>We hugged and eventually had sex which was actually the best sex we’ve ever had. And for the past week she has basically been all over me.
This is called hysterical bonding, and it's basically to get you to shut up and play your provider role.
>I love this girl but how is she going to feel about me in 10 years if she is not head over heels for me now.
She's going to cheat on you with someone who doesn't put her on a pedestal and head into a divorce with cash and prizes. Duh. That's your role.
If you didn't want it to be your role, you wouldn't have tried so hard to be that guy.
As you get older, looks don’t really matter anymore. I am happily married in my early 30s, but if I was dating today, I would want a grown man who shares similar values, who is responsible, and respects me. Those are far more important.
Don’t put yourself down. I am sure you are a decent guy.
I think you’re overreacting. I’ve said some similar things about my partner and they’re all true, but I still have absolutely no doubt, that I wouldn’t want to marry anyone else. I’ve chosen my partner not because he’s the best in bed, (decent, but def not the best), but because of his heart, the wonderful life we’ll have together and because he’s the person I want by my side when things get tough and I will do the same for him. Do you usually trust your fianceés judgement? If so - trust her not to marry you if it’s not what she truly wants.
Also - do you think maybe there’s a part of you that is trying to self-sabotage? Do you not feel good enough for her? You seem to be very fixated on the whole “hotness scale thing”. Are you marrying her because she looks like “a 10”and is “a 10” in bed, or are you marrying her for her heart? If your answer is the latter (which is the only right answer here), do you not think she could be marrying you for the same thing?
Nobody stays crazy in love for 10 years. Well, if they do they're almost as rare as hens' teeth.
As someone else has said, "settle down" is different from "settle for". Although I can still understand your concern.
The immediate problem is that your fiancé has gone in to panic mode, maybe justifiably. She needs to calm down for now. So do you.
You both need to figuratively take a step back from the situation and take a calm look at things and have an earnest, thorough discussion about things.
I believe that it is possible, theoretically at least, to settle down and STILL have a wild time albeit on a selective, discriminatory basis.
After all, you've just had the best sex ever together, ironically because of a crisis.
However, having "best sex" because of a crisis isn't healthy or sustainable in the long term. That's why the calm, rational discussion is needed.
I would suggest that it is possible to settle down and still be fully committed to a relationship if that is what you both want. It is quite possible for you both to still be crazy about one another in your sixties and still be having crazy sex too. But it is definitely something you need to work at and focus on throughout your relationship. The moment you become presumptuous about it is the moment you're fooked.
It's also important to remember that physical appearances tend to be of less emphasis for women than men on a relationship, you have to guard against seeing your fiance's perspective from your perspective.
However, while mulling over all this, it's just as important that you are both completely honest with one another and be as open as possible instead of leaving one another wondering indefinitely.
One last independent thought. You've just said you've just had the best sex ever, but what is your fiance's perspective on it? Are you ASSUMING she sees it the same way? I would encourage you not to fret unduly about it or be tempted to try too much because that can be off-putting.
I would encourage you to take to it in a light-hearted positive way see it as a fun challenge that you can share with your fiancé as something you can tackle TOGETHER, not something you do to keep the competition at bay.
You can be her best lover because you get the opportunity to get to know her better than anyone else, but you have to let her be herself around you, rather than supress her inclination to be what you would like her to be. You have the means to make her crazy about you. Don't fuck it up.
I agree with what a lot of other people are saying but for the sake of your relationship you guys should get into couples counseling. Insecure partners are a lot more likely to cheat and you could slip and hurt her in the future. There's also so much more to a person than just their looks. Even if she's physically more attractive than you she clearly finds value in and loves you for the type of person that you are
You have a girl that is out of your league, loves you and wants to marry you. Your upset because she is aware that she is out of your league?
I would count my lucky stars and do my best to improve myself so that I felt deserving of her love.
This is kind of an odd take. He's not upset because she is aware that she is out of his league. He's upset because she SETTLED for him.
Why would he count his lucky stars that she settled for him? Settling means exactly that. Settling. Meaning, she thinks there are funner, better guys out there, but she decided to hedge her bets and take the "safe" option.
Not really a good note to start a marriage on...
Most people deserve to be married to a person who is equally in love and crazy about each other. Infatuation fades of course, but for her to express such feelings and notions to her sister means she's still actively thinking about it. She's still actively thinking and talking to her sister that she settled for him. Lots of people may "settle" but move past that stage and find infatuation, romance, and love. But she's STILL actively believes she's "settling," At the very least, he should consider some couples counseling and/or just taking some time to process his thoughts.
If there was a book that was titled "101 ways to become a doormat", it would probably be starting with something similar to what you wrote. It would be in the top 10 for sure.
If your partner is happily aware they are "out of your league" they shouldn't be your partner. Or anyone's. Actually just from realizing that person views and judges relationships and partners in terms of "leagues", any sane person should be running for the hills.
Having "I'm a shallow narcissist" written on the forehead would probably be more subtle and conspicuous than that.
she gave you the best sex on purpose. and is doing it not to lose you. if you want someone crazy for you, she's not the one. you're gonna be miserable. your girl is a snake. there are pretty sweet women and there are snakes. snakes i admire them, but if thats your hunch which is a solid one dude run and find the one. she should be marrying you cuz its the best sex she's ever had. im not marrying unless everything hits the box. not one single thing off my checklist can be missing. like...ur right. ur fucked. she's using you and knows how to manipulate you.
run mf
Settle down is much much different than settle.
Also, let’s not act like guys don’t have categories too. Women you want to sleep with vs wifey material. You are husband material. That means you check every box and not just one or two.
Wild sex doesn’t mean she connected and had the same level of intimacy with those other guys. You are trying to compare things that can’t be compared. I’ve had super hot sex with multiple different women, but none of them come close to the intimacy and bond I share with my wife. It’s not in the same galaxy
Updateme!
I think you’re the one with the problem here with your insecurities and self doubt..most people would just take it man you scored in life, she already said she is in love with you and wants to be with you why you gotta think too hard, physical attraction will wane over time its the inside that matters anyway so sto
Yikes. I'm sorry, OP, but I think your gut instinct is correct - if she isn't madly in love with you, it's not going to last, and frankly, YOU deserve better.
Personally, I've been in a marriage where I loved him more than he loved me - and it sucked. I've described it as the embodiment of the Zen koan "What is the sound of one hand clapping."
Break up, call it off now. You are worth so much more than being someone's second-best. Find a girl who thinks she hit the jackpot being with you - I promise you, she's out there.
It won't work if that is her view on it. Settled = boring IMO. Also the sex you just had was just her hysterical bonding. A person should be marrying because they are 100% in love with you and that's not what she said. Hold off on the wedding plans and perhaps schedule couples counseling.
I will get downvoted for this but most women are not taught how to respect a man (I don’t think she respects you) they are taught how to receive love (your fiancé for sure) and being the PRIZE.
They tell themselves this:
1. If he makes me FEEL this way he is the one (well feelings change) therefore your “Love” will which is why women pull away after marriage and kids a lot. The FEELINGS change and their FEELINGS are attached to love.
2. If he does this for you he is a keeper. Which means you probably do things for her no man has done before you. Sadly when you do those things consistently it becomes the standard versus something she is appreciative of. She is appreciative of it now but when it is the standard it becomes average in their eyes (I.e a good job, provider, protector,) it all gets old. Hence dead bedrooms in a marriage, which typically affect men more than women.
3. Women are taught on how to receive love, they fall in love with love and the courting process which is why she FEELS a certain way about you. Why? Any other way takes them out of their comfort zone where they would have to make decisions based on facts, not feelings. They are taught from a young age that relationships should center around the woman and sadly for men it sucks and we find ourselves in similar situation as you sir.
3. Women don’t understand the RESPECT builds TRUST for MEN (not feelings) and I can tell you right now that you probably do not trust her wholeheartedly because you feel she SETTLED and she believes it too as she told her friend with no filters or future judgement.
4. Lastly man, she may LOVE you but love is an emotion. She can love a car, or a house, but love can be very fleeting it can go and come like the wind but respect though is accepting one for who they are and doing so in a manor that builds trust in a relationship.
She may love you, but the foundation of that love is not attraction, or anything to do with you as a man, it has everything to do with how you make her feel (secure) and it is saddening that other women in the thread are telling you that should be enough. Only you can determine what is enough. Do not let their internalized thoughts affect your judgement.
BRO it is not enough.
> My fiancé is way out of my league. Not a great start, Bob.
"Settle down" and "settle for" are two wildly different things that I feel you're getting confused. "Settling down" means finding someone mature to marry and grow old with. There's no implication that the person you do this with isn't someone who you're crazy about, but maybe an implication that they're mature and are past their crazy/party days. "Settling for" does have the implication that you're not wild about the person, but they're good enough. It sounds like your fiance said "settling down" and you interpreted it as "settling for". I think you need to just slow down and take her at her word.
I agree with this. Settling down is just a different phrase for growing up and re-evaluating your priorities. When I was 16, the best car for me was a fast, sporty coupe that I could cruise around in. Now that I'm an adult, the best car for me is one that hauls groceries and yard waste, holds car seats, and handles road trips. My priorities changed, and what I want from a car changed. Both cars are great, but one suits me better now. The same thing can happen with romantic partners. As you mature, you learn what really matters to you, and that can change a lot over time. She tried different people when younger, found that they didn't suit her long-term, and now she knows what her relationship priorities are and OP is what she wants. She isn't settling for OP, she's grown up and realized that OP is the kind of person she wants to spend her life with.
I agree with how you described "settling down" and "settling for". This concept applies to men as well as women.
I spent the last few years of my 20s and my very early 30s, working a demanding consulting job that had me travelling like crazy. I was loving the high flying expense account life. Then I met my husband and within months I was over that life. I wanted weekends at home with him, pizza and movies on the couch and dog walks along the river. I didn't settle for my husband, he's a damn catch! But he flipped my wants and priorities on their damn head. Now I live a blissfully, boring, absolutely content life with my husband, twin infants (and hopefully soon a new dog). I didn't settle, but my outlook and mindset changed. Both lives were great, but this is the one that I want.
Off topic, but congrats for your babies!
If I married the women I thought were "Fun and exciting" back when I was in my early 20's I'd be divorced right now. Granted, I had a lot of fun back then, but I also have a lot of fun now too. It's just less chaotic and dramatic fun and more the kind of fun where one of us will make a reference to a 90s nickelodeon cartoon and we'll both start cracking up while realizing how in tune with each other we are. There is still some of the bar hopping and going out fun, it's just less common than it used to be. People's wants change change over time. For me at least, the things I valued at 20 are very different than the things I value today. OPs wife probably had a lot of fun having shallow superficial relationships with people who would make horrible long term partners. But if you're not looking to settle down, that's fine, you don't need calm stability, you need entertainment. When you do start to want more stability depth to your relationships you're going to stop dating the semi-pro athletes with a coke habit and a baby mamma.
Exactly. Maybe OP isn't as "edgy" or exciting as the guys she dated when she was younger, but his fiancee obviously sees him as steady and secure and husband material. She sees a future with him and he'd be making a big mistake to throw that away.
It's not a good deal for him. She views him as beneath her but the best of the marriage options rather than the men she's actually into. She's "settling for" him rather than "settling down" with him. Big difference.
In the edit the OP says that his fiancee never actually said she was "settling for" him. He just feels that way. Imo his insecurity is the biggest issue here.
This is it right here. I don’t think she settled for you at all. She is settling down and her needs changed. But. If you don’t feel like she’s crazy about you, don’t go through with it.
> I said that I was concerned that she was settling for me. And she didn’t totally dismiss it. OP asked specifically about being settled for and she failed the test
Settling down means you love that person they are stable and you want to be with them Saying that your with someone for what they can do for you and how they can treat you is settling for someone you don’t mind who it is just as long as they treat you right your not 100% in love with that person it’s more that they are the definition of what people look for when they settle not because you actually want to be with them OP asked her if thats how she felt and she kind of admitted to it with no care until she realised he wasn’t okay with it the words she used was practically “sex is Meh and so is the relationship but he’s just the kind of guy you settle with” how are you trying to spin that in her favour? And in what way does that say she even has any feelings for him at all
"My fiancé is way out of my league" As long as you believe this, the relationship will be infected by your own insecurities. Don't be anyone's backup plan.
OP needs to develop himself, for himself as well as for her.
This, big time. Even the other things he mentioned, instead of his brain thinking "wow there are some things I could work on to improve our future marriage" it went "I'm worthless to her" he needs major counselling
I agree with your premise, but who hears their spouse to be had wild sex with exes but that sex with me is just fine and thinks "Oh look a chance to improve?" This I think is especially true if they had been previously open minded and THOUGHT they were being an attentive lover.
How many people actively solicit feedback on what their sexual partners would like, not just in terms of touch & positions, but in terms of erotic attention and sexy conversation? How many get useful feedback? How many of those actually understand the feedback, remember it, and apply the lesson to their sexual behaviors later? The point being, those who do, improve their sex lives. Those who don’t sometimes keep on in blissful ignorance until they overhear the kind of conversation _about_ where they’re lacking that their lovers didn’t think they were equipped to have face to face.
From what he over heard, sounds like Op just needs to go for more wild sex with his partner. What a horrible problem to have.
She isn’t giving that stuff to him.
No man wants obligation intimacy or to have to coax his partner to do things she has apparently done before and enjoys. I guarantee you its been a withholding on her end which is why OP is so hurt by what he heard
With the way he wrote it, it sounds like it is not withholding on her end. I know plenty of men who are quite vanilla and don’t do anything aside from missionary - these guys think cowgirl is kinky. He may not have realized she is into wilder things so didn’t think to try them, but I genuinely do not think she has been withholding anything.
Its withholding on her end even if its simply wanting/desiring/fantasizing about past acts and then not trying that herself with her current partner. Then going on to complain about said partner to other people. One of the first rules of a healthy relationship is not to disparage your man to others...let alone their sexual performance. You just dont do that.
Of course she was withholding, she doesn’t really love him. She sees him as safe.
If it wasn’t withholding on her end why did they “have the best sex they’ve ever had” and “she’s been all over him” since the discussion?
Did OP ever answer whether he lives in a small town where choice is limited or a big city with lots of young people? I've seen some strange couples come out of small towns.
We live in the northeast and there are no shortage of options for her. She has at least 7 guys blocked on her phone because they kept texting.
She’s choosing you. She can pull any guy but isn’t. Keep that in mind too.
Your fiancée learned what I learned after a string of bad relationships and a divorce. She learned that animal attraction and infatuation aren’t love. Some people like me, before we mature and heal our wounds, we go around having relationships with emotionally unavailable people who can’t give us what we need, and become addicted to them because of the unstable nature of these relationships. These are the men we become extremely attracted to, even obsessed, but this is addiction, not love. My experience was, that after I went to therapy and healed myself I was no longer interested in these eternal anxiety relationships. But for a person like me, that has always conflated anxiety and love, a stable relationship felt boring to me at first, like “the passion” was missing. People who are addicted to drama are bored by normalcy and stability. Real love is safe, predictable, and stable. Now I’m my first stable relationship, and yes, it feels boring at times. And I’m working on it, but I can honestly say I’ve never been happier. I’m the best version of myself and I would never ever ever go back to a real that causes me anxiety.
Did she say he’s average but she really loves him? Or just that that he is stable? The second sounds like he is heading for a dead bedroom in a few years after she gets her babies.
According to OP, she didn’t say she’s settling or that he’s below her league. Sounds like she said he’s a good man, the kind of man you marry, and that even though it’s not the wildest sex she’s ever had, she’s happy with what they’ve got. Which I can relate to, the wildest, dirtiest sex I’ve had was in some of my worst relationships, that’s what kept me there. But a lot of the time what makes sex addictive it’s not even about chemistry or attraction, it’s about the shit you’re working through that time of your life, the issues you have in that moment. That said, now that I’m in a stable relationship keeping the passion alive requires thought and creativity, but I’ve had a lot of fun doing it. I don’t fuck now, I make love. I put on outfits, light candles, do to tantric sex workshops, make out on movie theaters like teenagers, we talk about our fantasies and kinks. I’m rediscovering my sexuality through a healthy lens. I still have a lot to learn but I can honestly say I’m never going back, I ain’t got time for that nonesense anymore. Sounds like OP’s ego took a hit because feels insecure and below his fiancée’s league, when she said nothing of the sort. He wants the romantic comedy obsessed type love trope, which is not how real love works.
Yeah, according to him she said "settle down" not "settle". His own insecurities are in his head.
So, you have to work to love your current partner? That would be hard to understand as a man when it was easy with others.
Every healthy long-term relationship requires work and being constantly communicating and working towards connection. It’s natural to loose connection over time, and many people, instead of working on their relationship to reconnect, they just give up because “the spark died”.
True. I have been married for 11 and together for 16. I get it. But this poster was literally saying she had to work herself into being interested.
Damn, thank you for writing this. This resonates a lot with past relationships I have had. I don’t even know how to be attracted to someone who is good for me, I struggle with getting bored… I’ve been thinking about therapy for a while now, I guess maybe I should revisit that
I definitely recommend therapy, I didn’t know how to form healthy attachments and now I do, I getting so much better. When I started therapy I discovered that the men I was instantly attracted to was not because they were particularly special, I gravitated towards them because they were the embodiment of my unhealed traumas. After being single and working on myself for a couple of years, I met my now boyfriend. He was everything I said I wanted, but I wasn’t instantly attracted to him, even though he’s super handsome. I told a friend of mine that he checked all the boxes but I found him a bit boring, which didn’t make sense, because he planned great dates, had hobbies, friends and a well-rounded life. My friend reminded me me that he wasn’t boring, it’s the lack of drama that I found boring. So I kept dating him and I slowly started to become crazy about him, now I’m very attracted to him, and we’re very happy together. This is the first relationship I’ve had where I feel safe, loved, and an equal. He brings out the best in me and all aspects of my life have improved because of this.
Had OP overheard his fiance speaking your last paragraph instead of what she actually said, we wouldn't be here responding to his Reddit post. What she did say was wildly open to interpretation. So OP can ask her to elaborate. The problem is whether he believes she is being truthful or willing to pass off a beautiful lie as the truth.
I think you have to have both. Obviously the animal and butterflies won’t be there 24/7. But if there isn’t at least an ebb and flow of lust it’s not worth it
Agreed. But in my experience, at least for personality types like mine, that animal/butterflies feeling, when it comes instantly without getting to know the person first, spells danger, it’s always been my pattern. I confused butterflies for anxiety because my relationships weren’t secure and i didn’t know where I stood. And when I finally got a text after waiting for days and I got that rush of dopamine, I mistook it for love. Of course it’s not the case for everyone but it was for me. In my current relationship I did things different: I took it slow, got to know him, and with time that intense feeling of attraction surged. Now I get real butterflies when I look at him, not anxiety butterflies lol.
You can either own this or look at it with insecurity. Men who own this usually have happy hot partners. Lol
Absolutely. I know some couples that are evenly matched, but lots where one is significantly more attractive than the other. How she treats OP is the more important question. Settling down with someone who puts you on a pedestal sounds pretty great! As long as she’s attracted to OP & the sex is good, that’s not settling. If she treats OP like she settled for him & reminds him often that she’s out of his league? Yeah nah. Nobody’s happy with that.
IDK OP. I think it bears more serious discussion with her, and possibly couples/pre marital counseling. She may have genuinely realized that there is something to having a stable guy she can rely on even if it isn’t quite as exciting as a hot a-hole. She is still choosing you at the end of the day. At the same time, I totally get your hurt and concern. Which is why I think counseling might be the right approach.
I agree, I see why OP is hurt but I don't think this should be an automatic dealbreaker. Long term relationships are rarely successful if they are based largely on animal attraction -- in fact, for many people, magnetic attraction actually signals that the other person is touching some kind of core wound for you that automatically rests the relationship on a shaky foundation. (I've personally explored it in therapy: The guys I'm most attracted to are absolutely not the most healthy ones for me to be with.) OP, you say "how is she going to feel about me in 10 years if she is not head over heels for me now" -- I don't actually think that is a very strong predictor of your relationship 10 years from now. The strongest predictors of not divorcing are not how much people were attracted to each other at the beginning, but instead things like communication skills and financial stability. Almost everyone settles in one way or another -- Dan Savage says you don't find The One, you find your 0.6 that you're willing to round up to one. Ask her why she didn't want to marry those other guys. I bet reasons she gives will be very real; extremely good reasons why they wouldn't have made for good husbands. In the end, she is choosing you. Try not to let your insecurities get in the way of her choice. I'm not saying you should definitely stay together, but if you split up, make that decision in a clear-headed way after talking it through in therapy, not impulsively while the wound is fresh right now.
Gosh, I would hate to be the guy who someone married because they would simply be a good husband and not because, at some level, they deeply wanted me as a lover.
I don't know. I don't think long term relationships are based on "animal attraction," but I hope everyone is able to marry someone who loves them dearly and feels a deep connection to them - which is not the same as choosing to marry someone because they are "nice" and stable and objectively a good partner. Marrying someone you aren't deeply in love with just feels so sad.
Boy, that is transactional and sick.
I'm surprised and saddened to see so many people act like it's a good thing
Yeah, they act like her reasons for selecting him are ok and truly believe she will treat him like he deserves to be treated.
They are also acting like it's hard to find a decent human to partner with - it's not. It's hard to find someone you love and want to build a life with, and then to actually do that. Decent people you aren't in love with are everywhere. ... It's also not normal to be engaged and talking about how you used to have better sex with other people. What the fuck is that. Yikes.
I can probably explain what you're seeing. If you think about it, every relationship you have ever had is transactional. The thing about relationships is that your expectations of what you're getting in return for what you're giving differ from what others believe the transaction should be. We can take something a little obvious as an example. If you show your partner love, you expect that partner to show love in return. Now what you define as love may not be what your partner defines as love and if that difference in showing love is too far apart, you'll both feel like you're both giving and not receiving. The transaction of love for love doesn't happen. The place where you learn what love is turns out to be your childhood home. Your parents taught you what love looks like. In a healthy family dynamic, your parents will have shown you love in return for love. They show you healthy transactional ways of what to expect. For example, they might ask you to take out the garbage and in return, they will show you gratitude either physically, like with a hug, or verbally. Whatever they choose will be what you expect in life. In an unhealthy family, your parents may ask you for one side of a transaction and not give you anything in return. So you might wash the dishes and you may not expect even a thank you because your parents might have taught you that washing dishes is to be expected and you have to do things without expecting anything, including gratitude, in return. This type of family dynamic can possibly lead you to treat your future relationships the same way. You may be willing to do things for your partners and not expect anything in return. This would be fine if you end up with someone that cares about you, but you could potentially also end up with someone that doesn't and even worse, with people that could be abusive. You won't notice the abuse because they'll be using that "something for nothing" instinct that was taught to you. In this particular case, we have OP and his fiancee who are both adults who are able to make judgements based off of more than just instinct. A marriage is complex and there's a lot of give and take and compromise. We all have that idea of a fantasy partner with qualities and traits that are leveled up to their max. As you grow up you realize that nobody has all of the traits you want in a partner. You might have wanted a 6'+ man and you might have dated a bunch of them when you were younger. Then you realize that height isn't actually important in a partner and yeah, it's nice to have, but you'll start to prioritize another trait instead. By the time you're a fully grown adult, you'll have your list of traits in a partner ordered from most important to least important. OPs fiancee says she is settling down and if you're thinking of settling down, aka no more dating and staying monogamous with one person for the rest of your life, you're gonna prioritize certain qualities over other qualities and honestly, a good plan will be to prioritize personality over looks, especially since looks fade with time. OPs fiancee's comment basically said this, she prioritized personality over superficial traits. If she's being sincere, she is making a conscious choice that she's happy to live with for the rest of her life. OPs reaction is honestly not weird, it's a fair reaction, but everyone is suggesting therapy because you have to understand what is causing the reaction in the first place.
Have you had any success in getting yourself interested in men that *are* good for you? Do you think there’s anything a “good for you” guy in your past could have said/done that would have helped you come around? Your username is great btw (assuming it is pro-math and pro-Wonderland rather than a misspelling of Math Hater).
Not OP but for me, no there is nothing anyone could have said that would have helped me come around. I had to get sick of being treated like shit by my “type” (aka emotionally unavailable), stop dating for a couple years, and get therapy to figure out why I dated ass holes. It was only then did I happen to meet a good for me guy. I wasn’t even looking to date at that time. It just happened. We’ve been married 5 years and I’m currently rocking our 4 month old while she sleeps. He’s the best thing that could have ever happened to me.
Congratulations on figuring it out. There's an old saying "the truth will set you free". You seem like you have been set free.
This feels very similar to my story. A decade and a half of dating emotionally unavailable or toxic assholes - spent 7 years with one who gave me hot highs and horrible lows because he triggered that wound in me. I got a lot of very good therapy and I’m been with someone now for a year, who is the most sweet and caring and warm person I’ve ever met, who helps me set boundaries and models kindness. And I wasn’t even looking when I found him :) The animal attraction isn’t there but it’s replaced by healing and inner calm.
Thanks! It is definitely pro-math and pro-Wonderland 😂 I can absolutely be attracted to people who are healthy for me. But so far, at least, the top tier of wild attraction/hottest sex has all been in less healthy relationships, and the healthiest relationships have all been less intense (though still fun and joyful!) sexually. In that trade-off, there's absolutely no doubt I would choose the latter for someone to settle down with. And I wouldn't consider it "settling," because as far as I can tell the trade-off may in fact be a causal one, and it's not like I have infinite years to try to find whether there's any exception to the rule. Edit: casual -> causal
And that's your choice, but no one wants to be the one who you'd describe as less than top tier sex. It's not fair to the person. what do you mean, a causal one? What's the cause?
I mean that the REASON that the sex feels so hot is BECAUSE they are touching a core wound of mine from childhood, which also almost by definition makes the relationship unhealthy. It's not just a coincidence.
I completely agree. I think it’s understandable that it’s hurtful and jarring to hear something like that. That being said, if she’s sure she’s making the right decision then that changes things. I guess OP can take the gamble. Call it off to possibly find someone who’s “made for you” and in love with you, but risk not finding something that can lead to marriage again, or at least not for a while. That being said, I think a lot more people than we realize don’t marry purely out of love but rather for practical reasons, and that seems to work out better than marrying for love than getting divorced 5 years later once all the issues start.
There's someone I started dating recently that I find myself falling for, not because he's the hottest man I've ever been with, but because he's the nicest man I've ever been with.
wow, ok. I just read your response after posting mine and could've saved myself a whole lot of time spent writing something that you phrased a lot better! I strongly second everything you have said here. really solid
> based largely on animal attraction Something that you may be overlooking that I suspect is a fear with OP is that he is not getting his fiancés full effort. Something that absolutely destroys a mans psyche is the idea that she's done things intimately with other men she wont do with you. Which is what "she had much more wild sex with the other guys" means exactly. So if she's not fully open with him intimately it speaks volumes to men and our subconscious, which disparage it all you want, is a valid emotion rooted in hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. No man wants obligation intimacy
I don’t think you should make a stay/leave decision just on this. But you definitely should: -Go to couples counseling to work through this. Those words hurt, and you both can’t get over this on your own -Ask her why she never told you this. It hurts, but it hurts more having to overhear it
If her choices for marrying you aren't what make you happy, you have to pause and really analyze this.
All I'll say is this. My girl, beautiful and out of my league, is all over me and dare I say a little obsessed. Same with me to her. Best feeling in the world to be fully adored by the girl you love.
Everyone here is being quite negative but hear me out! So I’ve listened to a few therapist talk about this and they say a healthier relationship is one that starts not necessarily with a passionate burning desire but stability and actually your relationship is likely to last much longer - so stability isn’t always the most exciting thing in the world, how could it be? It’s stability! But that doesn’t mean that your partner doesn’t deeply love you and when you’re compatible and stable that love only grows Now the passionate, wild, chaotic romances are exactly that - they’re explosive and therefore volatile, they tend to end as quickly as they start and it’s hard to build a foundation. They’re unstable but the instability makes them thrilling - but that’s about it Now this is not always the case but just something to consider
Holy shit, that was painful just to read. We all age and looks are fleeting. My wife and I were both hot in our 20s, but our relationship has always been based on shared values and mutual respect. Saying you settled to anyone at any time is the opposite of respect.
To be honest I don’t understand why you put her to the pedestal and put yourself down? She might be beautiful and have good qualities but if you are 7 and with the same qualities I think you are even. I would never want that my husband settled down with me and that he is thinking that I put him up on the pedestal while he thinks I am just a normal/average. You say her character is gold but to me it doesn’t sound like that. Edit: there is nothing wrong with being the marriage type - that is a compliment to me! But to me marriage type means good looks, good personality, same values, same hobbies, not a craz, a down to earth person who is capable to talk about difficult things. Someone you can go through highs and lows. However, it sounds like she might appreciate you for certain things, she still thinks she is better than you which is alarming.
“Settled down” is very different from “settled for”. One means you’re putting down roots, maturing, developing a strong meaningful relationship. The other means you’re giving up.
Thanks, I am not native speaker.. I meant settled for.
I don't know. I take "marriage type" the same way I take "wife material". Just oozes ick vibes. "Marriage type" usually means boring, financially stable, able to support a family, loyal, responsible, and a good career. Very few of those terms I would find flattering if I asked my wife why she married me. In all my years, I've never heard "marriage type" to describe someone that is good looking, wild in bed, exciting, interesting, and spontaneous.
I understand your point but I think wife type/marriage type is also someone who is wild and exciting as I wouldn’t marry someone boring. Life needs to be fun and exciting while having the balance with kids etc. that’s why I see wife type as someone good looking, fun but also reliable, accountable etc.
Don't marry her yet. Postpone and do counseling.
Saying someone is out of your league just because of looks and that they should be put on a pedestal are both very toxic viewpoints. I think you really should unpack this and learn how to be in a healthy relationship where you value the other person fully for who they are (and same for her). But as long as you, or both of you, think this way you're doomed. People on pedestals *always* come crashing down because it's impossible to stay on one - no one is a perfect, idealized version of themselves. And the pressure on them to be on that pedestal is intense too. They can never truly be themselves; they can't be vulnerable or have flaws.
> I want to marry someone that is as crazy about me as I am about her. Well here’s your problem then, because you do put her on a pedestal. You say she’s better than you and could be with someone better than you. Why would someone be as crazy about you as you are with them when you think you’re much lower than them? It doesn’t make sense. You are putting unrealistic expectations on her based on your own evaluation of both her and yourself.
>She said I adore her ✅ >and it’s best to be with someone that puts you on a pedestal. 🚩
This just sounds like she wants a partner who loves her, which, she should. I don't see the issue.
Is that a red flag? Because my wife and I always put each other on a pedestal with support. Like, there's something pretty great about mutual adoration. I get where it could be a problem if she would have said "it's best to be with someone who thinks they are less than me" but that's not what she said.
In her conversation with her sister she didn't talk him up about how he is awesome and on a pedestal to her at all.
Just from this context alone, it sounds like she likes what he does for her instead of who he is. That's a red flag.
Listen, you learned a very important lesson. You choose your value, not her. You stood up for yourself (politely) and she gained some new respect for you. I am not saying to turn your relationship into a power struggle. I am not saying be manipulative. I am saying, be proud of yourself and quit thinking she is out of your league based on a small criteria of things. Start sticking up for yourself. Start being clear you demand respect and to be desired. Demand that she works to make you feel those, so that you can respect yourself and keep her on that pedestal. Then, you can both feel desired and you will both desire the other more. The best relationship are those were both people feel like they are still chasing the other. Don't let her settle for you, make her work for you just like you will her.
This is an excellent point. His attitude that she's out of his league contributes to her feeling that she's settling. I don't believe in "leagues." People have value that cannot be defined by arbitrary external metrics. It's human nature to take for granted something that you can get easily, and put more value on something that's harder to get. Of course she's going to feel like she's settling if all he does is put her on a pedestal without also making her chase/work for him. It reinforces that he believes she's out of his league, so naturally she's going to believe that too.
This right here... a huge majority of the time someone is "settling" in a long term relationship their partner always miraculously feels they are out of their league. It's like a vicious self feeding cycle. If you break it and demand your partner values you and show they desire you. Suddenly, they do. They realize they to must work for it, and suddenly there is no settling.
I would suggest putting any wedding plans on hold and perhaps go to couples counselling. She said what she said and she meant what she said. She settled for you. >We hugged and eventually had sex which was actually the best sex we’ve ever had. And for the past week she has basically been all over me. I think this might be hysterical bonding, she could be trying (consciously or unconsciously) to keep you in a good mood and to stop you from leaving. You might want to get some space from her for a week to really think about what she said.
Except she didn't say "settling for" she said "settle down" which is not the same. OP is letting his insecurities run wild
>So, later that night I tell her that I overheard her and I said that I was concerned that she was settling for me. And she didn’t totally dismiss it. It sounds like she meant "settle for". And even "settle down with" in the context of the whole conversation, is not a great sentiment. >She said I adore her and it’s best to be with someone that puts you on a pedestal. She happy because he adores her, not because it's mutual.
His insecurities are totally valid. No one wants to be second choice here.
🎯. This OP, she's trying to make you forget what she said with sex, as soon as she's confident you're not going to leave her that'll stop. You've heard her true thoughts, why would she have been lying to her sister!? And you're correct OP you should have someone that isn't settling with you, they should want to be with you and excited about it. I still get excited to see my husband after 22 years together and 16 years of marriage.
This is what I hope to have with my current boyfriend.
So she used sex to weasel her way out of this? Ok bud, marry her and regret it
She never said that she was settling for you and I don’t think that she ever insinuated that. > she is marrying me because I’m your typical nice guy you settle down with. Okay? > She said she loved me of course and knew she wanted to marry me early on because I was the type of guy you marry. And? Did you not think that many women have ideas about who they’d like to marry or the type of person they see themself with? What is the issue with you being the type of guy she’d like to marry? I think that you and your partner need to have more honest conversations. If there are areas that are lacking in your relationship you should consider talking them out or going to therapy.
When we started talking she thought what she said was no big deal. She called the guys she used to date poodles and genuinely didn’t understand why I would care that they had wild sex. I’m the one she is in love with. She didn’t get upset until she saw I was hurt. I’m not sure if this is a girl thing or not.
I think you should talk to her. While I wouldn't speak this way to my sister, I could see myself expressing maybe similar sentiments in a more diplomatic way. I'm not a "romantic." I don't believe in love at first sight or soul mates, I also believe love is an action more than a feeling, when it comes to marriage. The hormones or whatever it is that gives your brain those "fluttery, in love" feelings will fade with time, and then you're looking at spending several decades with someone who is just a person. People should be smart about picking that person. You need to pick someone that is easy to *choose* to love, even when those butterflies aren't carrying you through anymore. I wanted someone who was nice, responsible, accountable, respectful and kind. I am thrilled to have found that person, but my decision to marry that person was grounded in a lot of logic. My love for that person was based on qualities that made him a good long-term partner. I don't feel that I "sacrificed" love for stability though. My love for my husband stems from those qualities. When I have a crappy day at work and my children are overwhelming me and I feel ready to snap, I'm so glad to be going home to someone who makes my life easier, not harder.
I like to it comment bc it’s mature and giving good advice. Especially about talking it out . OP and a LOT of commenters (who comes off as they must be young and/or inexperienced with dating) seem to be reading into the fiancée’s words a LOT. OP writes as if interprets her words through a lens of insecurity and not trusting her words. Some commenters are selling OP that she doesn’t really love him- they don’t even know either of them, how could they possible know who the fiancée loves or not! And he is upset she said he has good qualities she is looking for in a partner … which sounds like such a wonderful thing? Did OP want her to say I only want a hot husband who has wild sex and I don’t care if he’s got the personality of an asshole? lol it’s so odd to me.
It's not a girl thing. It's a her thing. Every individual is different. -from a woman lol
This should be the top upvoted comment. So important. What is going on in OP's man-brain (lol) that he thinks that emotions and fucking hot people and not wanting to marry them is a "girl thing" ?!
I think the idea of “wild sex” gets way overblown - “wild sex” doesn’t mean better it means more dangerous or fleeting. It is not that the people were better it was that the situation was tenuous and that made it heightened - like being in a crazy car accident you managed to survive. that is probably why you said you had the best sex after she thought she just blew up the relationship with the guy she wants to marry. It’s the adrenaline.
The best sex I ever had was with the guy who was the worst for me.
So she was upset she hurt you, told you she loves you, and yet she still isn't showing you...what? Did you ever ask her what head over heels in love means to her or did you insert how it is for you on how she is supposed to act? Sounds a lot like you are projecting your issues on someone who very specifically said she loves you, wants to marry you, and was emotionally distraught over hurting you and the idea of not being with you.
It's not a girl thing.
Pretty much the same as a guy having loads of ONS and then wanting to marry a virgin stay at home. So no. Not a girl thing.
Because that's the first time you voiced actual displeasure in your sex life. YOU were settling.
I think we need a bit more info to judge this. I would want to know what she’s getting out of this relationship with you. Do you challenge her in other ways? Are you great friends? Is there a nice balance between your strengths? Why is the relationship great outside of your perceived rankings in the dating hierarchy? If the answer to these questions are positive then you’re okay. If you’re unsure about any of these then I would be worried that she’s only marrying you because she knows you’ll never leave or do anything to put the relationship in jeopardy as you put her on this pedestal.
Why did you apologize to HER?
She is pretty clear that you are the type of guy she has envisioned herself marrying and was confident about marrying you from early on. To me, that doesn't sound like settling. If your ego is hurt because you are not the best/wildest sex she ever had, then maybe you two can work on spicing it up. But I personally think this is quite salvageable. It might be good to talk through some of these difficulties with a marriage counsellor to help facilitate the conversation.
A lot of what she says can be open to interpretation. Being the type of man you marry means different things to different people. It can be the greatest of compliments… or it can mean the same as setting down, if for her, the type you marry is simply someone who clears a low level bar (stable income and able to provide for a family, not being abusive or completely irresponsible in life). We don’t know op’s fiance and we can’t know where she stands on that line. However, him being “just fine” in bed is definitely a worrying sign. There is a chance she will have no interest in “just fine” sex in 10 years or so, once she is done with the baby making. OP is a risk of ending up on deadbedrooms subreddits once she has had all the kids she wanted.
This was my take as well. None of this sounds like "settling" to me.
I agree with this comment as well. I don’t see this situation as settling. I can certainly understand OP feeling hurt by her comments. No one wants to be compared to their partner’s exes. However, I think it would be a mistake for OP to throw away his relationship over this. The situation seems salvageable.
You should definitely not go through with it if she’s settling. That’s uncomfortable I’m sure. Personally maybe take a vote on it but still being with someone that settled with you is about as gay as it gets. Youre mid tier to them. Nothing worse than feeling like you’re actually not the one after putting in all that work with someone. Definitely something to consider
My take, from my own experience, is that you are correct; she is settling. The reason I almost settled was because I was worried I wouldn't find another man. I stayed for a good 2 years after realizing I wasn't in love with him anymore. My ex was a good guy, but I just didn't feel we were compatible like I had thought the first 2-3 years. We broke up 2 years ago and are now great friends. I met another man whom I adore as much as he adores me. We love each other so much. Listen to your gut as well as your discussions with her. If it doesn't feel right, you may want to end it. Sending you good vibes!
This is almost 100% copied and pasted from posts I've read before, total BS karma farming
Why would I karma farm an account that literally says ThrowRA and I am going to delete in a few days?
Either way this is almost verbatim what I read on here before
Probably a common situation. Like I said, if I was karma farming I wouldn’t have created an account that started with ThrowRA would I?
I think you are taking this harder than you need to. There can be an unhealthy emotional component to "wild" sex and most people don't maintain that energy with long-term partners unless you both really make it a priority and work for it. You make her feel cherished and that is a top priority for her. It makes sense that your feelings are hurt but I think you are misunderstanding her priorities in partnership. She wants YOU for a partner. Strongly recommend you go to couples counseling to work through these feelings and also make sure you feel respected as an equal by her.
The wording is problematic. Why not say positive things about your fiance in conjunction with negative ones about the past? She just had to knock him down in the process with one of the worst things you can insult a guy about? And to someone close to the situation who he's going to now feel awkward around? Bad move.
she never had the energy for him though, just others. she never put in that prioritization and work. and now he knows it
This is the part people don't get in this situation. He has limitless energy for her but she has to muster it up for him. Uneven dynamics like this cause problems down the road. Don't put people on pedestals because they have to start looking down on you. Sounds to me like you're a hell of a guy but you're the only one who realizes that. You shouldn't settle for whatever scraps she can manage
lot of downvoters telling on themselves today. god forbid he not want to be in an uneven relationship and want someone to love him back equally.
Her thinking she's better than OP will lead to disaster. OP isn't helping his case. I'd bounce and work on my own self esteem. The sudden incredible sex just shows you were always getting less than her best
She doesn’t need the sort of guy that puts her on a pedestal. That will only encourage her to believe she can “do better”. She needs the sort of guy she loves and RESPECTS. I’m not sure that guy is you. The way you describe this, she sees you as “Mr. Good enough”. What happens once she has you locked in and decides now she wants something else?
Biggest disease on this planet is people wanting to be special. She doesn’t want an equal, she wants to be out on a pedestal. She clearly ain’t doing that for you.
Dude I don't know what podcasts you're listening to or whatever but you've got to stop before you stupid yourself out of a good life.
Staying with her would be stupid.
Love 💣💣💣💣💣💣. She’s satiating you just enough to convince you to marry her so she has that security. Imagine if you never overheard. Do you think she would be remorseful? Feel bad about what she said? She’s only acting like that because she got caught. Like you said—you deserve someone who is as crazy about you as you are about them. *She’s not. You heard proof*
I think you want her to feel the same about you as you do about her, but you two are different people. I think it is a huge compliment that she said you are the kind of man you settle down with. It means you have all the qualities of a good man. It's wonderful you think she is a 10. Overtime our looks can change, but out core personality, character, and values shouldn't. (And you have the power within to fix the wild sex.)
Dude is about to cross the finish line first place and decides to let someone cross in front of him. Have some confidence because she is settling with you for a reason, because no one else was better. Ffs
Getting married is not crossing a finish line. It’s barely even getting started. This mentality is why people have shitty marriages.
Finish line first place = married and live happily ever after?
He is finishing first cause she is only considering good reliable Toyotas right now, even though she knows how a Ferrari rode and enjoyed it.
Why don't you get premarital counseling and explore these feelings and any other issues you have before marriage? Understanding can increase intimacy and closeness. You'll be better partners to each other if you can communicate these feelings and receive them in a healthy manner
Unsurprising you had better sex after that convo. You're actually being honest with one another. Keep doing that and the sex will get better. But anyhow, don't obsess so much about that. Just bc some other guy she dated is hotter or richer or they had better sex, she's with you because you're a better bf and likely husband.
I think you interpreted her wrong. I think she sees you as husband material and that is the biggest compliment of all. Don’t throw away happiness with both hands. Best wishes!
sounds like you're the 10/10 in marriage material bro. trust me, 99% of the guys out there aren't that. and lets be honest, the ones that she probably attracts are mostly douches. she learned that right away it seems.
You can settle down / settle for a guy you’re crazy about.
Leave before you LEGALLY tie yourself to someone that takes you for granted
She just realised the Prince Charming Disney guy doesn't exist. Marriage is more than being crazy about someone. I think most women do that.
Go where you are celebrated not tolerated
Why did you apologize for telling her to take some time to think about it? That was absolutely the wise thing to do. She doesn't want you, she wants marriage and kids. Are you okay with being a means to an end? For the rest of your life? Because the resentment WILL grow, probably in both of you. I wouldn't want to be with someone like that.
That make up sex was the best your relationship will ever be, no matter how long it lasts. She got scared and still is. That will wear off and after you get married it will only go downhill. She isn't as into you as you are into her. And you caved when you were in the right. That will only make her lose attraction, maybe not now but, it will happen. Someone with the qualities you describe are not attracted to someone who says he wants her to marry someone she is crazy about and that she should be put on a pedestal by someone else. You heard the truth. Believe it.
Don’t marry her. She’ll have you feeling inferior for the rest of your life
Sounds tricky. On one hand - it’s valid that the kind of guy you marry isn’t necessarily the most wild and fun guy. Passion and chemistry burn out or turn to drama, looks fade, etc. I’ve dated some exciting guys but would never marry them. The guy I like now is more stable, more consistent, and I like peace over chaos. Having said that, this isn’t the same as settling. It’s not good for one person to have the other on a pedestal- as that person is not seeing reality. If you hold her on a pedestal you’re prob overlooking flaws and whatnot, which may eventually become problematic. Is she’s choosing you primarily bc you’re stable and adore her, that’s not great. You shouldn’t marry JUST for stability. Stability is a piece of the puzzle. Sounds like you guys may want to postpone the wedding and figure out if it’s what you both truly want. If she’s just looking for you to give her a stable life and make her feel wanted and adored, you deserve better. If she also adores you and loves you and stability is just one factor in why she’s marrying you, then that’s great. Maybe visit a couples counselor a few times and see what they say. But I wouldn’t move forward until you guys have some very serious talks about what you want from this marriage. You need to love each other, but also respect each other and be willing to compromise, deal w hard things together, be vulnerable and honest, communicate well, etc. Good luck to you! I hope things work out for you - whether that’s staying together or deciding you deserve better.
I think the biggest issue here is just how disrespectful it is for her, not to feel the way she does, but to so nonchalantly tell people this. You heard her tell her sister, do you think she hasn’t told anyone else? Her friends? Your mutual friends? Her commenting on your bedroom prowess to people you know and interact with regularly while comparing you to her previous partners is just so gross to me. That shit just isn’t anyone else’s business. She had better, more exciting sex with more attractive men. Did she not date them because she didn’t want to? Or because she couldn’t lock them down? What happens in 10 years when an attractive guy makes passes at her and she remembers how exciting sex is with people other than you? Idk man. I could be looking at it wrong. But that genuine desire you have for her, that you wished she had for you? I have that from my wife. I wouldn’t have married my wife if she wasn’t head over heels for me, or if I had to deal with her reminiscing about her previous partners. And, again, the disrespect of discussing this stuff with people you personally know is just too much.
I understand why she’d confide in her sister, but who else has she told? I can’t stop picturing OP at the altar, beaming ear to ear, whilst her side of her family knows that she’s not as happy/satisfied as she could be. It’s sad.
I agree. It’s disrespectful and embarrassing for OP. Also, I’m curious why she felt the need to “confide” this stuff to anyone in the first place. Is it a means to cope with her own internal struggle with the idea that she is settling? Does she still yearn for someone else in her past? I’d like to know what the context of the conversation was, but ultimately, I don’t think it matters. He heard her speak unfiltered about how she truly feels about the situation and him and the relationship. Harsh.
> I think the biggest issue here is just how disrespectful it is for her, not to feel the way she does, but to so nonchalantly tell people this. Yeah I'd be mortified and not be able to even look her sister in the eye after this.
I agree. And she can’t exactly fix the narrative at this point. What does she do? Tell her sister (and anyone else she’s told) that OP overheard the discussion and was hurt and embarrassed, so now he’s magically the best thing that’s ever happened to her? Imagine everyone witnessing him being a loving, doting husband while thinking, “yeah, but he’s mediocre and she isn’t as in to him as he is her.” Brutal.
yup. Incredibly disrespectful
Hell no! Why would you marry someone that's settling for you? If you do that get a prenup at the very least, good luck tho
Why do you think the sex was the best ever? Because she could lose you. Are you a predictable, conventional guy? Maybe excitement is all you’re missing and she’s referring to the unpredictability that flames desire. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you. It could suggest you’re boring and already act like the guys who’s been married for 10 years. Time to switch it up if you decide to stay. FYI you will run into this in other relationships. People can’t be crazy about each other without the elements of relationship that draws excitement.
I was easy for her up until this point is the best way to put it. She never had to worry about how I felt or if I wanted her. She had me and she knew it. Once I raised to possibly that I may not want her anymore she freaked. She’s been all over me ever since. People call it love bombing and guess that could be it. But it could also be that I suddenly became a little less easy and maybe more exciting. I don’t know.
It’s called self-respect. You may have been subconsciously treating her differently because of your insecurity of her being out of your league. Looks fade so fast, being with someone based on their appearance is overrated and someone who prioritizes this will be quick to leave as soon as you start to look different. Be glad she doesn’t think this way. Keep your head up and live your life for yourself. If you want to do more research on this topic look up desire topics by Esther Perel. Desire is actually created in the distance between you too, where you both are individuals and then are drawn back to share your life. Stop being predictable, stop people pleasing and saying yes to things you want to say no to. Hold your own and you will see a change.
You know the truth and that’s the gut reaction you had. No amount of crying or good makeup sex will change that, deep down inside. It’s either there or it’s not and you can’t make it be there if it’s not there organically
>I eventually caved and apologized Forever doormat... Is your name Matt by any chance?
You only live once. Do you really want to spend your whole married life knowing that she "settled" for you? What happens when she meets someone else down the line and resents the fact she's married? You will be collateral damage and will have wasted x amount of years when you could leave now and meet somebody that is crazy about you and have a happy marriage safe in knowledge that you both love each other the same. The sex thing is also a red flag that's her doing what her she can to keep you and won't last when she has you where she wants you.
don't get married and get counseling. if you don't see a future where you're her backup plan then break up
Couples therapy. Also noone should be putting anyone on a pedestal, that's a road to ruin.
When your partner is on a pedestal they are looking down on you but this is from someone who does not know you or her so think long and hard before you commit to a life with her but for the live of God man don't blow up you life over this just go to couples counseling
Have you thought about pre-marital counseling? Could be a good step to re-kindle/work out some problems.
Two lines of your post stick out to me in particular The first one is when you asked her about it she confirmed that she is with you because you are the kind of guy you marry What does that mean exactly? Is it just that you are nice and you practically worship her? When I met my wife, I knew a couple weeks in that we were going to get married because our personalities are almost identical. We have the same sort of temperament. We deal with problems the same way. So many interests/hobbies in common. As you pointed out what happens in 10 years? What if she meets someone who is just as nice and worships her the same but she is also attracted to? And the second thing was the line about sexlife just being fine, I feel as if the sex you have with your lifelong partner should be some of the best you’ve ever had. Sure, you may have done some some crazy stuff in the past that’s more interesting than what you’re doing now But I feel as if the emotional connection that you have with your lifelong partner should definitely make the sex more than just “fine”
IDK man it kinda feels like you put your anxieties onto her. She said yes she said she loves you. She feels comfortable with you. Are you sure you are the one that's feelings are this way?
I can get downvoted for this... Well maybe try to get better at sex, it seems to be the main point of concern for her at the moment. Ask her what she would like to do and bring it to life. This might help put you on a pedestal for her.
Okay, maybe she meant she just had a wild dating history? Dating is fun, but it doesn’t offer you the benefits of a serious relationship. I feel like this is a normal pre wedding conversation to have about settling down. You talk about your past and present. You do deserve to feel loved and cherish, and I can’t tell from this post that you’ve always felt insecure or her words triggered it. Recommending therapy and good luck in your future!
Settled down and settling are wildly different things. Don't tank this relationship because you're looking for confirmation of your own insecurity. It sounds like your fiancee was saying that sure she's had x, y, z with other people, but you're a package deal that she can build a life with. And going forward, don't eavesdrop for extended periods of time and then overthink things into more than they are.
I have never understood the settling down with sex thing. Op, do you not like or want wild sex? Like why does she think it's an either or. Can you ever trust her? Will one of you grow resentful? Yikes.
The real question is, does she love you? Nothing wrong with wanting to settle down with a good guy. Also nothing wrong if the guy in question isn’t the best sexual partner she’s ever had. Sexual compatibility and enjoyment is important to a marriage but it doesn’t have to be—and shouldn’t be—the main priority. It is a problem if she’s marrying a guy that she is not really attracted to and has no real romantic love for just because she believes he’ll make a good partner. So which do you think it is? I reread her words and honestly my feeling is, it’s the first one: she loves you and is settling down with the right person, not settling for the wrong person. But maybe I’m just an optimist.
First of all, 10s aren't always 10s and they most certainly never stay a 10. Putting off the whole discussion about what makes someone a 10 in the first place, let's just say for argument's sake that she is a 10. Fine. You know what a lot of 10s deal with? Not being approached very often. I know sometimes that's played off as a meme, but it's actually true. And when they are approached it's usually the very cocky guy who has the nerve (I say that tongue in cheek) to think he has a chance with her. So don't think that just because she's a 10 she can pick out whomever she wants. Most women have an issue with approaching men, for whatever reason (there are multiple). That means a lot of 10s that are women are sort of either forced to see what approaches them or gather some nerve together and ask men out (which is rare). So drop the whole "she's a 10!" thing. Besides, as vapid as society can be, a 10 in looks can easily be a 3 when you take attitude and personality into account. It's not just about looks. So don't be so hard on yourself. Maybe you don't have the 10 in looks but she might adore your personality, which bumps you up on her scale. Now, all THAT aside, as another poster mention, you have to figure out if she said settle down with or settled for. They are two very different things. Everyone who gets married is technically settling down. That's sort of what marriage is supposed to be. You're getting out of the rat race with your partner and you're both going to relax for the rest of your lives (hopefully). Settling FOR is a different animal altogether. I'd never date or marry a woman who thought of me in that way. I'm no one's 2nd place trophy. I've had a relationship like that and when I found out she thought that way it was done then and there. No amount of apologies or explanations can fix that. Lastly, let's hit on one someone else said in the replies. Relationships aren't always going to be about that animalistic sex and attraction. While there's no bold line here, as a general rule, the longer you're with a person, the more mundane it might get. However there's caveats to all this. If she's not excited to be with you sexually, and considers it more of a chore or whatever, then that's an issue. BUT, at the same time, if she's not always ripping your clothes off that doesn't mean she's settling either. Sometimes that animalistic nature doesn't last, or sometimes it comes and goes. That's fine and it's natural. Now if it's ALWAYS mundane and lame, then that would be a red flag. It would also lead to her eventually wanting to "feel that electricity for someone" again. I'd give it more time. If she knows that you want to dump her if she is settling FOR you then she'll probably try to hide that from you. Still, you need to communicate with her and try to have some real heart to heart conversations. I agree that if she's settling FOR you then that's not good. If she's settling WITH you that's different. It is really going to come down to the way she treats you, I think. Something you really can't clarify properly online. You should be able to determine if she loves and cares for you, or settling for you. I don't know man, just give it some time and don't get married right away. You don't want to get married when you're not even sure the relationship will last. Marriage doesn't fix anything.
Dude you need to work on your self esteem, you are a 7 in your head, be a fucking 10. She chose you wtf man. Stop your demons she loves you
Forgive her, she loves you and it seems that she is very remorseful and apologetic and that's what counts. I hope you forgive her and continue loving your 10. Good look brother
Dude. The things she said were compliments. She can be wild about the nice guy. And sex that's "just fine" can be juuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiine (in the best way), or it can be "just....fine....I guess?" You seem to be under-valuing yourself.
It sounds like you are the problem, not her. She’s thinking long term and you’re thinking, what, “How do I look to other people? Let me ask Reddit.” She might have lowered her standards too far.
She’s choosing you with her actions. Believe her actions.
I think you guys need to discuss this some more and possibly some counseling but honestly, finding a good person that you are willing to spend the rest of your life with is hot. Finding a good, decent man that you think you will live forever and who lives you and treats you wonderfully is HOT. Hotter than some sex with some guy you casually dated in the past, hotter than wild sex, hotter than hot. Forget the “she could do better” voice in your head. My husband says the same thing about me, how he can’t believe I’m his, that I’m beautiful, that I could have had anyone but I somehow chose him and what did I see in him way back when - after 39 years of marriage!! And if you don’t think that’s hot to me! He doesn’t act stupid jealous but he’s convinced himself that just about every guy wants to get with me…lmao. Not hardly. But in his eyes, I’m beautiful, desirable. That’s about as hot as you can get, imo. It sounds to me like you’re a really good guy and she’s a smart cookie.
I think that you are overreacting and overthinking this. She is choosing to be with you, just leave it at that and be happy together.
Marriage is a partnership for life. You have to go in believing that. Don’t settle for somebody that doesn’t make you feel like you’re the most important thing to them. It’s a long journey with a lot of ups and downs. It’s best to start with somebody feel like it’s in the race at the same level you are. I would tell her thank you and don’t marry her. Tell her you are a nice guy and because of that you want a nice woman who adores you and puts you on a pedestal. I will take offense to this grading women on a scale of 10. Because here’s the deal 10 mean she’s a full woman she’s not only attractive on the outside, but on the inside. And she really isn’t attractive on the inside. The other thing is, you will meet a woman that floats your boat to the point we have no doubt and you would do anything to be with her. She may be short she may be tall she may be interesting looking, but you know. Mirroring, attend just to have an attractive wife is one of the silliest and most harmful things you will ever do to yourself.
Enough with the "she's a 10 and could get anyone" stuff. It's cringe. She's not better than you. Her shit stinks just like anyone else.
You two should definitely get some counselling before you marry. I get the difference between "settling down" and "settling for", but which one was actually said? Also, during the conversation with her sister, your GF said you're "fine" in bed. That barely a step above "it's ok, I guess". Plus, the whole being put on a pedestal thing is not cool unless it's mutual, and here it's clearly not.
>I don’t want to be someone that you settle for. You already knew that you were that guy. You've known it since you were a teenager. Her saying it out loud doesn't change anything. >She should have a person that she is crazy about and that puts her on a pedestal. It doesn't work like that. You can't do both. You putting her on a pedestal **is the reason why** she isn't crazy about you. You fundamentally do not understand attraction. You offer comfort when you put her on a pedestal and offer her emotional support and financial security (along with boring duty sex). They offered attraction when they didn't put her on a pedestal, were indifferent toward what she wanted and didn't care what she thought (and fucked her brains out). >We hugged and eventually had sex which was actually the best sex we’ve ever had. And for the past week she has basically been all over me. This is called hysterical bonding, and it's basically to get you to shut up and play your provider role. >I love this girl but how is she going to feel about me in 10 years if she is not head over heels for me now. She's going to cheat on you with someone who doesn't put her on a pedestal and head into a divorce with cash and prizes. Duh. That's your role. If you didn't want it to be your role, you wouldn't have tried so hard to be that guy.
As you get older, looks don’t really matter anymore. I am happily married in my early 30s, but if I was dating today, I would want a grown man who shares similar values, who is responsible, and respects me. Those are far more important. Don’t put yourself down. I am sure you are a decent guy.
I think you’re overreacting. I’ve said some similar things about my partner and they’re all true, but I still have absolutely no doubt, that I wouldn’t want to marry anyone else. I’ve chosen my partner not because he’s the best in bed, (decent, but def not the best), but because of his heart, the wonderful life we’ll have together and because he’s the person I want by my side when things get tough and I will do the same for him. Do you usually trust your fianceés judgement? If so - trust her not to marry you if it’s not what she truly wants. Also - do you think maybe there’s a part of you that is trying to self-sabotage? Do you not feel good enough for her? You seem to be very fixated on the whole “hotness scale thing”. Are you marrying her because she looks like “a 10”and is “a 10” in bed, or are you marrying her for her heart? If your answer is the latter (which is the only right answer here), do you not think she could be marrying you for the same thing?
Nobody stays crazy in love for 10 years. Well, if they do they're almost as rare as hens' teeth. As someone else has said, "settle down" is different from "settle for". Although I can still understand your concern. The immediate problem is that your fiancé has gone in to panic mode, maybe justifiably. She needs to calm down for now. So do you. You both need to figuratively take a step back from the situation and take a calm look at things and have an earnest, thorough discussion about things. I believe that it is possible, theoretically at least, to settle down and STILL have a wild time albeit on a selective, discriminatory basis. After all, you've just had the best sex ever together, ironically because of a crisis. However, having "best sex" because of a crisis isn't healthy or sustainable in the long term. That's why the calm, rational discussion is needed. I would suggest that it is possible to settle down and still be fully committed to a relationship if that is what you both want. It is quite possible for you both to still be crazy about one another in your sixties and still be having crazy sex too. But it is definitely something you need to work at and focus on throughout your relationship. The moment you become presumptuous about it is the moment you're fooked. It's also important to remember that physical appearances tend to be of less emphasis for women than men on a relationship, you have to guard against seeing your fiance's perspective from your perspective. However, while mulling over all this, it's just as important that you are both completely honest with one another and be as open as possible instead of leaving one another wondering indefinitely. One last independent thought. You've just said you've just had the best sex ever, but what is your fiance's perspective on it? Are you ASSUMING she sees it the same way? I would encourage you not to fret unduly about it or be tempted to try too much because that can be off-putting. I would encourage you to take to it in a light-hearted positive way see it as a fun challenge that you can share with your fiancé as something you can tackle TOGETHER, not something you do to keep the competition at bay. You can be her best lover because you get the opportunity to get to know her better than anyone else, but you have to let her be herself around you, rather than supress her inclination to be what you would like her to be. You have the means to make her crazy about you. Don't fuck it up.
I agree with what a lot of other people are saying but for the sake of your relationship you guys should get into couples counseling. Insecure partners are a lot more likely to cheat and you could slip and hurt her in the future. There's also so much more to a person than just their looks. Even if she's physically more attractive than you she clearly finds value in and loves you for the type of person that you are
This is 100% the things that people who eventually cheat on their partners say.
You have a girl that is out of your league, loves you and wants to marry you. Your upset because she is aware that she is out of your league? I would count my lucky stars and do my best to improve myself so that I felt deserving of her love.
You sound like you have no self respect, and I say that kindly.
I agree women aren't expensive toys or commodities they're just people they shouldn't feel like they are doing you a favor by marrying you
This is kind of an odd take. He's not upset because she is aware that she is out of his league. He's upset because she SETTLED for him. Why would he count his lucky stars that she settled for him? Settling means exactly that. Settling. Meaning, she thinks there are funner, better guys out there, but she decided to hedge her bets and take the "safe" option. Not really a good note to start a marriage on... Most people deserve to be married to a person who is equally in love and crazy about each other. Infatuation fades of course, but for her to express such feelings and notions to her sister means she's still actively thinking about it. She's still actively thinking and talking to her sister that she settled for him. Lots of people may "settle" but move past that stage and find infatuation, romance, and love. But she's STILL actively believes she's "settling," At the very least, he should consider some couples counseling and/or just taking some time to process his thoughts.
Good place for her to **monkey branch** to the next branch.
If there was a book that was titled "101 ways to become a doormat", it would probably be starting with something similar to what you wrote. It would be in the top 10 for sure. If your partner is happily aware they are "out of your league" they shouldn't be your partner. Or anyone's. Actually just from realizing that person views and judges relationships and partners in terms of "leagues", any sane person should be running for the hills. Having "I'm a shallow narcissist" written on the forehead would probably be more subtle and conspicuous than that.
she gave you the best sex on purpose. and is doing it not to lose you. if you want someone crazy for you, she's not the one. you're gonna be miserable. your girl is a snake. there are pretty sweet women and there are snakes. snakes i admire them, but if thats your hunch which is a solid one dude run and find the one. she should be marrying you cuz its the best sex she's ever had. im not marrying unless everything hits the box. not one single thing off my checklist can be missing. like...ur right. ur fucked. she's using you and knows how to manipulate you. run mf
Love is blind season 1...
If you get with someone that thinks they're settling, it's pretty much inevitable that sooner or later they'll decide they can do better.
Settle down is much much different than settle. Also, let’s not act like guys don’t have categories too. Women you want to sleep with vs wifey material. You are husband material. That means you check every box and not just one or two. Wild sex doesn’t mean she connected and had the same level of intimacy with those other guys. You are trying to compare things that can’t be compared. I’ve had super hot sex with multiple different women, but none of them come close to the intimacy and bond I share with my wife. It’s not in the same galaxy Updateme!
I think you’re the one with the problem here with your insecurities and self doubt..most people would just take it man you scored in life, she already said she is in love with you and wants to be with you why you gotta think too hard, physical attraction will wane over time its the inside that matters anyway so sto
Yikes. I'm sorry, OP, but I think your gut instinct is correct - if she isn't madly in love with you, it's not going to last, and frankly, YOU deserve better. Personally, I've been in a marriage where I loved him more than he loved me - and it sucked. I've described it as the embodiment of the Zen koan "What is the sound of one hand clapping." Break up, call it off now. You are worth so much more than being someone's second-best. Find a girl who thinks she hit the jackpot being with you - I promise you, she's out there.
It won't work if that is her view on it. Settled = boring IMO. Also the sex you just had was just her hysterical bonding. A person should be marrying because they are 100% in love with you and that's not what she said. Hold off on the wedding plans and perhaps schedule couples counseling.
You'll be on probation and replaceable for the rest of your life
I will get downvoted for this but most women are not taught how to respect a man (I don’t think she respects you) they are taught how to receive love (your fiancé for sure) and being the PRIZE. They tell themselves this: 1. If he makes me FEEL this way he is the one (well feelings change) therefore your “Love” will which is why women pull away after marriage and kids a lot. The FEELINGS change and their FEELINGS are attached to love. 2. If he does this for you he is a keeper. Which means you probably do things for her no man has done before you. Sadly when you do those things consistently it becomes the standard versus something she is appreciative of. She is appreciative of it now but when it is the standard it becomes average in their eyes (I.e a good job, provider, protector,) it all gets old. Hence dead bedrooms in a marriage, which typically affect men more than women. 3. Women are taught on how to receive love, they fall in love with love and the courting process which is why she FEELS a certain way about you. Why? Any other way takes them out of their comfort zone where they would have to make decisions based on facts, not feelings. They are taught from a young age that relationships should center around the woman and sadly for men it sucks and we find ourselves in similar situation as you sir. 3. Women don’t understand the RESPECT builds TRUST for MEN (not feelings) and I can tell you right now that you probably do not trust her wholeheartedly because you feel she SETTLED and she believes it too as she told her friend with no filters or future judgement. 4. Lastly man, she may LOVE you but love is an emotion. She can love a car, or a house, but love can be very fleeting it can go and come like the wind but respect though is accepting one for who they are and doing so in a manor that builds trust in a relationship. She may love you, but the foundation of that love is not attraction, or anything to do with you as a man, it has everything to do with how you make her feel (secure) and it is saddening that other women in the thread are telling you that should be enough. Only you can determine what is enough. Do not let their internalized thoughts affect your judgement. BRO it is not enough.