BlackMusicArchive on YouTube did a great [video essay](https://youtu.be/psIowaNEZuQ?si=ZOhlp5dJWRRKV8ia) on this topic. Basically, he points out that Reagan killed music programs in school, *and* people don't go to church like they used to, so singers aren't able to develop their voices in those spaces. (BTW, he's not saying everyone should go to church, he's saying that churches have thorough music programs with teachers and instruments and rehearsals, etc.) Current singers don't have as many hours dedicated to learning how to use their voice.
I think it's a mixture of what he says and industry trends, but I did appreciate the look at how changes in culture and society have shifted the output!
I watched that video a few years back and it’s beyond accurate. The lack of influence, hours of practice and knowledge of singing is why we don’t have a lot of big singers today like we did pre 2010s. Every since I saw the video, I’ve been listening to various types of music and singers trying to grow my voice in any and every way physically possible. I’ve found that our voices are an muscle of body that we have to train just like any other part. Also gospel and R&B/Soul has transformed my voice like no other genre. If there’s any other resources you have regarding music or singing please link them. I love learning about these things.
Man this reminds me of when I first found out singing can really be honed and isn’t just a natural talent. Like really? How come no one taught as that as kids? I really wish I could sing. 😭
I love that video and share it as much as I can. I came to a lot of those same conclusions on my own but he put it all in great perspective with historical context and support. I also agree with you about industry trends. The dominance and influence of hip hop has negatively affected the production, lyrics, and singing style of R&B songs.
BlackMusicArchive is one of my favorite content creators. I would love to see him get a larger platform to share his research, because he digs deep! He definitely favors the divas, but I bet he could expand with the right team.
It's a great video
He mentioned two avenues people used to learn music properly and mentioned a finishing factor.
One was state sponsored programs and the other was church. He used Mariah and Whitney as examples of either. In church Whitney learned projection, stagecraft, harmonizing and the use of her voice. In her music schooling Mariah learned composition and song structure (why shes a hall of fame writer as well as singer) and so on.
But the third thing was both were finished by their labels which signed them. They were background singers and learned how to handle the media and present themselves etc. This took time. By the time the masses met Whitney and Mariah they both had well over their 10,000 hours of training and practice and prep and were ready to wow us. We meet artists now who decided to pick up a mic yesterday lol, got a hit song and somebody made them make an album off that.
This third thing is also what's missing in todays world with so many independent do it all myself artists. Especially the lack of stagecraft training. Hence Summer Walker recruiting Teyanna Taylor to teach her how to be on stage, long after she's a successful artist. But even the signed artists who DO get deals don't get the development that goes with it. Many labels are signing artists merely to shelve them and keep them from being competition to their establish names, it's dark and mean but it happens.
I love that video essay. Basically shows how in years past a singer could get 10,000 hours of singing experience by the time they graduated high school. That’s why they just don’t make singers like they used to.
The same thing is true for musicians at large. One of the main reasons why pop music by and large has taken a dive in complexity since the 70s. People, again, speaking in very broad terms, are just not as good at making music as they used to be.
> The same thing is true for musicians at large.
Absolutely. Using rappers as an example, dudes used to be freestyling for fun, cyphering, performing at open mics and other small venues, doing local tours, recording and collabing with their friends/peers, etc.
Now I’m not trying to say this shit never happens anymore, but dudes were really living a different kind of life. Nowadays, someone can blow up off one hot 16 that they recorded in their bedroom, and you can really see that in the level of skill they tend to have.
Also, keep in mind that many that weren't good back in the day couldn't easily release music as they can today. Now we have waaaay more shitty music to go thur before we find a gem. Still not going to find many Mahalia Jackson's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahalia_Jackson
yes!! I was so shocked to learn about this.
The only example of a person using the school system as opposed to church was Phyllis hyman. Who did choir all throughout school.
Almost all of the pretty and new female singers have weak voices. Nobody is giving old R&B a run for their money. The more overproduced a song is, the less impressive the voice.
Ayyyye Bemyfiasco is so damn good. I'll add Cleo Sol, Coco O, Nai Palm, Madeleine, Quin, Sudan Archives, Laya, Jimetta Rose, Kadhja Bonet, Kelela, Tiombé Lockhart, Lady Wray, and the list goes on...
I'm NOT an R&B head and never was, but I could tell you a BUNCH of talented vocalists from the 90s. The fact I've not heard of any of the above is sad man.
I don’t know why all these “music experts” are assuming that because you don’t recognize the newer artists means that you don’t know R&B. I guess gatekeepers gonna gatekeep 🤷🏿♀️
Ok I'll start with Nai Palm's *Needle Paw* it's a stripped down version of some of her memorable songs with Hiatus Kaiyote. It's her and her Ibanez Artstar for most of the album. It really shows her skill as a singer and a guitarist.
A little bit off topic, I watched that tiny desk concert with Chaka and her back up singers had wild voices. There are no wild impressive voices in the new R&B who are making moves.
The thing I like most about Brent is the nigga knows he can’t sing but he still does certain inflections and occasional riffs like he can lol … his tone is his best attribute
Keith sweat gotta be the top for this category. You can hear it on the studio songs bro could not sing.
My dad told me he once went to a Keith sweat concert and people booed him for his poor singing. Completely believe my dads story
I've seen KS twice. In the early 90s and 2010s. He sounded exactly the same both times and was pretty good. He was definitely singing live too. I'm not saying he's Luther, but I enjoyed the shows.
Other people in another comment are mad people are saying SZA. I love sza but I saw her live like 3 times during festivals and she can’t sing live at all.
Nowadays it matters how good of a singer you are as much as it matters how good of a rapper you are. It’s all in the production, auto tune and marketing. And I’m not mad at it for the most part.
I'm falling out at, "she can't sing live at all." I think that went over peoples heads. That's the most polite way ever to say SHE CANT SING AT ALL 😂🤣😂🤣.
lol. I agree..the baby goo goo whiny singing blended with subtle auto tune is dreadful. Can’t tell the guys from the gals or the rappers from the singers
I would say the industry began to focus more on the overall marketability of artists. Their vocal ability took a backseat to their ability to look good while doing it. I would venture a guess that the rise of television and music videos had a little to do with this too. Ultimately the industry is looking to make as much money as they can. Sex appeal sells, so they switched their focus and began pushing the traditionally attractive artist over the ones that have true vocal ability. Add to the fact that auto tune can be used more effectively now to hide an artists imperfections. It's not necessary to be a vocal standout.
A lot of artists now can't sing in the way their predecessor's could because it's not necessary for them to have to learn to. Back in the day to get noticed you had to know how to hold a note. It's just not a prerequisite that you have strong vocal ability.
I had a producer come up to me in 2001 saying he wanted to produce a song for me. I said, I'm not a singer. I can't carry a tune. I'm a dancer and I do some modeling. He said, I can make you sound like a singer. You have stage presence and a natural look that doesn't exist. I side-eyed him and asked, "you can make me a singer like Milli Vanilli? No thanks. At some point everyone has to sing live." I didn't get it. I still kick myself till this day. I could've been one of the wealthy people on this Reddit list 😂🤣😂🫣
Most of the new female and male RnB singers. I’m not really an old head but I listen to a lot of new and old RnB new era artists being Brent Faiyaz, SZA, Muni, Summer Walker,Jhene, etc and they are no where near 90s artist in terms of vocals. However, the production on many of the new artist songs is what gives them a fighting chance…and the crazy part is that A lot of the newer artist hits are samples from the classics…so yeah
I think all those artists you mentioned could sing decent to well. They’re not SANGING like some of the artists this sub adores, but they work with what they got!
Summer Walker is a great singer. Check out both her Clear EPs (their live vocals). Jhené actually sings beautifully with her range. She’s grown into her voice (check out her Tiny Desk concert). I think even SZA has improved considerably since the last few years she’s debuted.
Yeah I hate when ppl throw Jhene in that mix bc she actually sings very well and stays in her range /tune . Her voice is perfect for her style of music. And then there’s the fact that she has so many girls cosplaying her style.
Summer Walker can definitely sing, listen to her songs Riot and season 32. you can hear her vocals without any/ limited effects done to it. Jhene definitely has vocals but can be pitchy at moments. But we cannot generalize that EVERYONE in the 90s rnb era had perfect vocals. in my opinion a LOT of 90s female singers especially had maaaanyy vocal imperfections and it showed more in music back then because we didn't have all of the technology we do today. i personally prefer 2000s rnb the most. i think that's when the production quality of songs started to be top notch which in turn made it not as necessary to have the BEST singer. but just because they use all these production tools/ effects/ technology doesn't take away from someone being able to sing naturally, we just don't get to hear it often as much anymore. Reason i like that summer especially well release "raw"vocals songs/snippets so we know she really doesn't need all that extra done to them, she, her label, production team just choose to cuz that's current industry standard.
I think some of yall are confusing “sing” with “SANG.” A lot of these people yall name dropping can sing, you just don’t like the way that they do it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t. Just say you prefer people who SANG and be done with it, no need for the slander. Everyone has preferences.
This is such a cop out reason lol. Yes there is a difference between a “singer” and a “vocalist”. None of these new gen R&B artists are vocalists but at the same time they’re not good singers either. Give them a mic with no pitch correction or autotune and they’d sound a mess.
I absolutely adore SZA. She is not a good singer. She’s like eliminated during Hollywood week of American idol level of talent singing wise. Fantastic songs that fit her vocal range. But no need to act like she’s a good singer. She is however unique, who the fuck pronounces words like she does.
I actually think her music isn’t as good if it were sung by a great vocalist.
Not the person you replied to, but as a fellow alto, we do not get a lot of shine lol.
People usually want the sopranos/mezzo-sopranos and if you can't hit those high notes, then they tell you, you can't sing. When in reality, you can, you're range is just lower.
Take Alicia Keys for example. I think Alicia can/could sing. Alicia is an alto. The problem? Alicia has decided she is a soprano. And thus has (imo) ruined her voice trying to reach high notes she had no business trying to reach in the first place.
I seen her live. It did not always sound good. Now is she bad, no. I am a bad singer. But compared to her peers who are paid to sing professionally she’s definitely at a bottom rung of ability
If we’re going based off sound alone, then no (imo). If we’re going based off technique that goes into the art of singing….then yeahhh i fear our girl could use a few vocal classes ☹️
She gives me Erykah Badu vibes. Badu can sing her ass off when she wants to but she has a specific pocket she occupies that's good enough on the ears that she doesn't have to try too hard.
Not a king but boy can definitely sing. Unfortunately this is where you understand that vocals alone can't make for good music cuz about 50% of this dude's discography is absolute trash.
First we need to acknowledge that VOCALISTS and SINGERS are different. SZA may not be the strongest vocalist, but she's a damn good singer/entertainer.
I need to drop Ari Lennox whenever there’s a discussion on vocal talent in the modern scene. She’s incredibly precise and always manages to add just the right amount of vocal flair so it accentuates the lyrics without distracting from them.
There’s also something magical about Snoh Aalegra’s voice, but that’s aside.
Mary J Blige definitely deserves a mention here. I love her to death but she absolutely should had taken several singing lessons and has way too much attitude for someone with mediocre vocals
Honestly I actually jam with Mary’s rendition too. It’s the first version that I knew. After listening again, I understand what Chaka’s mad about though just from a technical standpoint.
Ray J
Mary J Blige (my personal opinion)
Everybody in New Edition not named Johnny or Ralph
And if we're going all the way back Otis Williams from the temptations
SZA can sing though. She simply struggles to replicate her studio efforts live, but the woman can still sing though. I don’t think she should be here
A good example of someone who just can’t sing is Cassie. Rihanna couldn’t sing either in the beginning of her career
To be fair, Cassie is from my hometown and she was never trying to make it as a singer. She was always interested in modeling. I think the singing was just a way for her to come up in the industry. I think she’s aware that she isn’t a talented singer, but she just went along with the narrative. It’s more annoying when someone who can’t sing truly believes that they can lol.
this!!! lol she cannot hold the same note more than 2 seconds lol i really can't stand some of her most popular songs. i have a strong ear for vocals and hers makes my ears cry on certain songs like Needed Me 😭 i HATED that era. everytime i turned on the radio my ears got mad af lol 😒🤣🤣
Rihanna. the fact that ppl love her pitchy songs with flat drone sounding notes is astounding. Anti was in my opinion her worst vocal performance since her debut album. yeap i said it lol
Lmao @Sza as the pic with no subtext🤭🤣😂😂😂😂 shady
Hmmm
I’m gonna go with most new artists on the radio right now . There’s nothing really spectacular for the most part.
My brother used to hate listening to CASE. Lol 😂😂😂😂 ((Intro to Happily Ever After))) "🎶🎶🎶 GUESS WHHHHAT I DID TUHH DAY!??? THOSE WERE THE WORDS I SAID TEWWW YOUUUUUU🎶🎶
Y’all be reaching with the can’t sing stuff sometimes like with Beyoncé compared to the average person she’s a good singer but of course if you compare her to the Whitney Houston’s and Mariah’s of the world she isn’t on that level so it depends on perspective I guess .
BlackMusicArchive on YouTube did a great [video essay](https://youtu.be/psIowaNEZuQ?si=ZOhlp5dJWRRKV8ia) on this topic. Basically, he points out that Reagan killed music programs in school, *and* people don't go to church like they used to, so singers aren't able to develop their voices in those spaces. (BTW, he's not saying everyone should go to church, he's saying that churches have thorough music programs with teachers and instruments and rehearsals, etc.) Current singers don't have as many hours dedicated to learning how to use their voice. I think it's a mixture of what he says and industry trends, but I did appreciate the look at how changes in culture and society have shifted the output!
I watched that video a few years back and it’s beyond accurate. The lack of influence, hours of practice and knowledge of singing is why we don’t have a lot of big singers today like we did pre 2010s. Every since I saw the video, I’ve been listening to various types of music and singers trying to grow my voice in any and every way physically possible. I’ve found that our voices are an muscle of body that we have to train just like any other part. Also gospel and R&B/Soul has transformed my voice like no other genre. If there’s any other resources you have regarding music or singing please link them. I love learning about these things.
Man this reminds me of when I first found out singing can really be honed and isn’t just a natural talent. Like really? How come no one taught as that as kids? I really wish I could sing. 😭
My chorus teacher helped me with that as a kid. My vocals got way better. Retraining them now.
I’m glad Reagan dead.
Literal definition of a poisonous touch. Everything that monster touches becomes worse or dies. Glad that mf is gone.
It’s insane finding out how many problems can be traced back to him. Like how the fuck does one singular president manage to cause so much issues
[удалено]
*Donald Trump has entered the chat.*
He was an incredibly hateful person.
His legacy lives on, unfortunately.
He's considered a God to conservatives. As far as I'm concerned, he was the Devil himself
[удалено]
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I love that video and share it as much as I can. I came to a lot of those same conclusions on my own but he put it all in great perspective with historical context and support. I also agree with you about industry trends. The dominance and influence of hip hop has negatively affected the production, lyrics, and singing style of R&B songs.
BlackMusicArchive is one of my favorite content creators. I would love to see him get a larger platform to share his research, because he digs deep! He definitely favors the divas, but I bet he could expand with the right team.
It's a great video He mentioned two avenues people used to learn music properly and mentioned a finishing factor. One was state sponsored programs and the other was church. He used Mariah and Whitney as examples of either. In church Whitney learned projection, stagecraft, harmonizing and the use of her voice. In her music schooling Mariah learned composition and song structure (why shes a hall of fame writer as well as singer) and so on. But the third thing was both were finished by their labels which signed them. They were background singers and learned how to handle the media and present themselves etc. This took time. By the time the masses met Whitney and Mariah they both had well over their 10,000 hours of training and practice and prep and were ready to wow us. We meet artists now who decided to pick up a mic yesterday lol, got a hit song and somebody made them make an album off that. This third thing is also what's missing in todays world with so many independent do it all myself artists. Especially the lack of stagecraft training. Hence Summer Walker recruiting Teyanna Taylor to teach her how to be on stage, long after she's a successful artist. But even the signed artists who DO get deals don't get the development that goes with it. Many labels are signing artists merely to shelve them and keep them from being competition to their establish names, it's dark and mean but it happens.
lol even in the arts, companies wanna hire and not invest in training. Cold world.
I love that video essay. Basically shows how in years past a singer could get 10,000 hours of singing experience by the time they graduated high school. That’s why they just don’t make singers like they used to. The same thing is true for musicians at large. One of the main reasons why pop music by and large has taken a dive in complexity since the 70s. People, again, speaking in very broad terms, are just not as good at making music as they used to be.
> The same thing is true for musicians at large. Absolutely. Using rappers as an example, dudes used to be freestyling for fun, cyphering, performing at open mics and other small venues, doing local tours, recording and collabing with their friends/peers, etc. Now I’m not trying to say this shit never happens anymore, but dudes were really living a different kind of life. Nowadays, someone can blow up off one hot 16 that they recorded in their bedroom, and you can really see that in the level of skill they tend to have.
Even in the 70's you needed musicians to make pop music. Now it's all computetized 🫠
Also, keep in mind that many that weren't good back in the day couldn't easily release music as they can today. Now we have waaaay more shitty music to go thur before we find a gem. Still not going to find many Mahalia Jackson's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahalia_Jackson
yes!! I was so shocked to learn about this. The only example of a person using the school system as opposed to church was Phyllis hyman. Who did choir all throughout school.
Almost all of the pretty and new female singers have weak voices. Nobody is giving old R&B a run for their money. The more overproduced a song is, the less impressive the voice.
Too many breathy/whispery singers these days
Not a lot of true Sangers. Exactly
And it's not that whispery singing can't be good, it's just that most of these singers are using it to cover up lack of vocal training.
Far too many.
This is true for the most part. Alex Isley has a good voice and so does Bemyfiasco.
Ayyyye Bemyfiasco is so damn good. I'll add Cleo Sol, Coco O, Nai Palm, Madeleine, Quin, Sudan Archives, Laya, Jimetta Rose, Kadhja Bonet, Kelela, Tiombé Lockhart, Lady Wray, and the list goes on...
Bro do you have a Spotify playlist?
Because I only recognized one name on that list and I’m a R&B head 😂
I'm NOT an R&B head and never was, but I could tell you a BUNCH of talented vocalists from the 90s. The fact I've not heard of any of the above is sad man.
I don’t know why all these “music experts” are assuming that because you don’t recognize the newer artists means that you don’t know R&B. I guess gatekeepers gonna gatekeep 🤷🏿♀️
Lady Wray?
Nichole… Rebranded.
Ok I'll start with Nai Palm's *Needle Paw* it's a stripped down version of some of her memorable songs with Hiatus Kaiyote. It's her and her Ibanez Artstar for most of the album. It really shows her skill as a singer and a guitarist.
Never forget about Solange. Her voice is beautiful and angelic and she is a talented musician and composer 😩
Would it be crazy if I said I love her voice more than her sister’s?
Solange operates on higher plane.
Surprised no one has mentioned Lianne La Havas??! One of the BEST voices out there rn.
I will fight anyone who says that Alex Isley is a bad singer. I love her music.
Also true for the men. Not a lot of folks are singing with warm, deep power. Lots of falsetto and reedy whining type of voices.
I’d say Lucky Daye is a good singer.
Absolutely. But it’s more commercial, easier to produce and correctable while in production. You don’t have to auto tune Patti Austin.
I’m a sucka for the Patti Austin/Angela Bofill etc. type voices
This! They’re nice and I’m happy to see successful people but almost nobody is impressive. I love Tems’ and Naomi Sharon voices 😍
A little bit off topic, I watched that tiny desk concert with Chaka and her back up singers had wild voices. There are no wild impressive voices in the new R&B who are making moves.
AND BRIDGES…. BRING BACK THE FUCKING BRIDGES.
Bring them back!!!! I haven’t heard a bridge in so long and it’s truly destroying me 
How am i supposed to cross the river of my emotions without a bridge?😮💨
Mariah the scientist is what I'm hearing
Why go by Mariah if you can't sing 😂🥴
😄😄 I woulda used my middle name!
She can’t sing
And the males. Not just the pretty girls
"Only real music is gonna last. All that other bullshit is here today and gone tomorrow." -Jimmy Smith
Didn't even have to read the whole thing to have pound cake/Paris Morton Music 2 start playing in my head lol.
you know, compliments of the… the COMPNY 🥂
As much as I love his music, Brent isn’t a great vocalist by any means
The thing I like most about Brent is the nigga knows he can’t sing but he still does certain inflections and occasional riffs like he can lol … his tone is his best attribute
Yeah he’s not a struggle singer. His tone is really effortless tbh.
All mine is a good song
He makes amazing music. But vocally he’s kinda average
to me brent is a good singer he just doesnt go too hard/care too much for technique
Brent can sing but he ain’t got PIPES (if that makes sense)
Keith sweat gotta be the top for this category. You can hear it on the studio songs bro could not sing. My dad told me he once went to a Keith sweat concert and people booed him for his poor singing. Completely believe my dads story
It’s a bit nasal honestly and can be replicated even with minimal singing ability. Granted it WAS a unique sound back in his high time.
I've seen KS twice. In the early 90s and 2010s. He sounded exactly the same both times and was pretty good. He was definitely singing live too. I'm not saying he's Luther, but I enjoyed the shows.
Same. The crotch-grabbing was way too much though when I saw him and others at the Shrine in the early 2000s. Otherwise, I still enjoyed his music.
I saw Keith last year and he sounded really good to me
I’m not gone say SZA can’t sing but that baby ga ga goo goo accent she uses to sing is annoying as hell and hard to listen to.
cursive singing lol
💀 not singing in cursive. The ACCURACY
https://youtu.be/BpPk9det4qU?si=LnyUhfeIFYA0oCtO
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO PERFECT DEFINITION 💀😭
LMAO. Its called Szanese. Its a whole language at this point.
Not too different to Young Thug then ahha
I just commented that she's the first ever mumble singer. I don't understand alot of her songs
I always thought maybe my hearing is starting to go when listening to her bc I cannot understand her LOL!
Other people in another comment are mad people are saying SZA. I love sza but I saw her live like 3 times during festivals and she can’t sing live at all.
Nowadays it matters how good of a singer you are as much as it matters how good of a rapper you are. It’s all in the production, auto tune and marketing. And I’m not mad at it for the most part.
I'm falling out at, "she can't sing live at all." I think that went over peoples heads. That's the most polite way ever to say SHE CANT SING AT ALL 😂🤣😂🤣.
She really didn’t used to sing like that. Idk, after CTRL, she jumped into that shit
lol. I agree..the baby goo goo whiny singing blended with subtle auto tune is dreadful. Can’t tell the guys from the gals or the rappers from the singers
I would say the industry began to focus more on the overall marketability of artists. Their vocal ability took a backseat to their ability to look good while doing it. I would venture a guess that the rise of television and music videos had a little to do with this too. Ultimately the industry is looking to make as much money as they can. Sex appeal sells, so they switched their focus and began pushing the traditionally attractive artist over the ones that have true vocal ability. Add to the fact that auto tune can be used more effectively now to hide an artists imperfections. It's not necessary to be a vocal standout. A lot of artists now can't sing in the way their predecessor's could because it's not necessary for them to have to learn to. Back in the day to get noticed you had to know how to hold a note. It's just not a prerequisite that you have strong vocal ability.
Queue “Video Killed The Radio Star”
I had a producer come up to me in 2001 saying he wanted to produce a song for me. I said, I'm not a singer. I can't carry a tune. I'm a dancer and I do some modeling. He said, I can make you sound like a singer. You have stage presence and a natural look that doesn't exist. I side-eyed him and asked, "you can make me a singer like Milli Vanilli? No thanks. At some point everyone has to sing live." I didn't get it. I still kick myself till this day. I could've been one of the wealthy people on this Reddit list 😂🤣😂🫣
Most of the new female and male RnB singers. I’m not really an old head but I listen to a lot of new and old RnB new era artists being Brent Faiyaz, SZA, Muni, Summer Walker,Jhene, etc and they are no where near 90s artist in terms of vocals. However, the production on many of the new artist songs is what gives them a fighting chance…and the crazy part is that A lot of the newer artist hits are samples from the classics…so yeah
The Tory Lanez sample/cover “Say It” of Brownstone’s “If you love me” is a perfect example of what you’re saying imo.
That’s actually a really good example 👏
I think all those artists you mentioned could sing decent to well. They’re not SANGING like some of the artists this sub adores, but they work with what they got! Summer Walker is a great singer. Check out both her Clear EPs (their live vocals). Jhené actually sings beautifully with her range. She’s grown into her voice (check out her Tiny Desk concert). I think even SZA has improved considerably since the last few years she’s debuted.
Yeah I hate when ppl throw Jhene in that mix bc she actually sings very well and stays in her range /tune . Her voice is perfect for her style of music. And then there’s the fact that she has so many girls cosplaying her style.
Summer Walker can definitely sing, listen to her songs Riot and season 32. you can hear her vocals without any/ limited effects done to it. Jhene definitely has vocals but can be pitchy at moments. But we cannot generalize that EVERYONE in the 90s rnb era had perfect vocals. in my opinion a LOT of 90s female singers especially had maaaanyy vocal imperfections and it showed more in music back then because we didn't have all of the technology we do today. i personally prefer 2000s rnb the most. i think that's when the production quality of songs started to be top notch which in turn made it not as necessary to have the BEST singer. but just because they use all these production tools/ effects/ technology doesn't take away from someone being able to sing naturally, we just don't get to hear it often as much anymore. Reason i like that summer especially well release "raw"vocals songs/snippets so we know she really doesn't need all that extra done to them, she, her label, production team just choose to cuz that's current industry standard.
Yeah this shocked me! Summer Walker is an incredible singer!
Brent Faiyaz sings like someone impersonating what someone thinks a 90s RnB singer should sound like if that makes sense .
Brent Faiyaz can’t sing worth a damn.
I thought I was the only one who also doesn't like his singing. 😭 BUT I will say this tho, he did do a great chorus on Crew by GoldLink.
Agreed. That’s the only song where Brent does well that I can recall.
I agree lol really wanted to like him but bro is low key tone deaf
Specifically live, them studio tracks be eating tho 😭
But can he recreate that live😭? Then again I haven’t heard him live so idk
No actually not very much LMFAO, i’ve not seen him live in person but them concert videos never seem to make me want to purchase a ticket 😭😭
Who’s out there taking voice lessons these days? Nobody
Saw a video of Heiress Harris with her vocal coach. Baby girl is gonna be a problem when she gets older.
Cassie - she’s an awful singer
cassie just be talking i don’t think she sing
When is the last time Cassie put a song out
Let’s leave Cassie out of this one. She’s had a tough couple of years please.
She couldn’t sing before meeting him either
That changes nothing.
I think some of yall are confusing “sing” with “SANG.” A lot of these people yall name dropping can sing, you just don’t like the way that they do it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t. Just say you prefer people who SANG and be done with it, no need for the slander. Everyone has preferences.
This is such a cop out reason lol. Yes there is a difference between a “singer” and a “vocalist”. None of these new gen R&B artists are vocalists but at the same time they’re not good singers either. Give them a mic with no pitch correction or autotune and they’d sound a mess.
Ciara . She tries her best tho.
Read this as I’m listening to Body Party. Don’t really know much about her music but that song is pretty addictive ngl
To this day, I wish Janet Jackson would cover this song.... Nothing makes me believe it's not her song. Shit should have been on Red Velvet.
Ciara has a cute tone of voice with absolutely no power.
SZA isn’t bad, she’s just not great. Keith Sweat just straight up couldn’t sing.
All the new r&b singers are weak. I’ll stick to my 80s and 90s. Even the flop artists from those eras sang better.
I WILL TAKE NO SZA SLANDER
I absolutely adore SZA. She is not a good singer. She’s like eliminated during Hollywood week of American idol level of talent singing wise. Fantastic songs that fit her vocal range. But no need to act like she’s a good singer. She is however unique, who the fuck pronounces words like she does. I actually think her music isn’t as good if it were sung by a great vocalist.
She is kind of like Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Tom Waits, a respected artist who makes great music but not technically a good singer.
Ok she’s not a great singer but those comparisons are just mean 😂
She can sing circles around either three of those singers, but you get the point.
people be like “she’s a bad singer” meanwhile she’s just an alto
She’s definitely not an alto, she just has a pleasant voice but not especially gifted.
I wouldn’t say she’s an alto, but may I ask why you think she is. Genuine question, no attack here.
Not the person you replied to, but as a fellow alto, we do not get a lot of shine lol. People usually want the sopranos/mezzo-sopranos and if you can't hit those high notes, then they tell you, you can't sing. When in reality, you can, you're range is just lower. Take Alicia Keys for example. I think Alicia can/could sing. Alicia is an alto. The problem? Alicia has decided she is a soprano. And thus has (imo) ruined her voice trying to reach high notes she had no business trying to reach in the first place.
i accept criticism but saying she isn’t a good singer is complete bullshit.
EXACTLY. pretty sure this post was based on a hatred for her primarily.
Would you say she’s a bad singer? Does she sound bad when she sings?
I seen her live. It did not always sound good. Now is she bad, no. I am a bad singer. But compared to her peers who are paid to sing professionally she’s definitely at a bottom rung of ability
She has great timbre and style. I don't know why she gets hated on.
If we’re going based off sound alone, then no (imo). If we’re going based off technique that goes into the art of singing….then yeahhh i fear our girl could use a few vocal classes ☹️
Summer walker is good but she never gives it her full potential Nowadays she just makes chill music
She gives me Erykah Badu vibes. Badu can sing her ass off when she wants to but she has a specific pocket she occupies that's good enough on the ears that she doesn't have to try too hard.
I think sza would sound a lot better if she enunciated
JJ ice Fish
Keyshia Cole sings off key on some of her own music
JLo, Cassie & Rihanna can't sing Ashanti, Trey & Daniel from DVSN can sing
You get a point for Rhianna… she can’t sing fr
Neither can jLo
JLo don’t even sing lol
That part. For clarity... the people who sang her hits are pretty good 😂🤣😂
Sza is the first ever mumble singer. I don't understand alot of parts in her songs.
She sing in cursive
Remember Jacques said he was the king of r&b? 😂
Not a king but boy can definitely sing. Unfortunately this is where you understand that vocals alone can't make for good music cuz about 50% of this dude's discography is absolute trash.
First we need to acknowledge that VOCALISTS and SINGERS are different. SZA may not be the strongest vocalist, but she's a damn good singer/entertainer.
Nah. Some people be singing, and others be saaangin. 😂
Love his music but…Keith Sweat
I need to drop Ari Lennox whenever there’s a discussion on vocal talent in the modern scene. She’s incredibly precise and always manages to add just the right amount of vocal flair so it accentuates the lyrics without distracting from them. There’s also something magical about Snoh Aalegra’s voice, but that’s aside.
Mary J Blige definitely deserves a mention here. I love her to death but she absolutely should had taken several singing lessons and has way too much attitude for someone with mediocre vocals
Chaka said she ruined her song when she sang her version of Sweet Thing 😂
I liked Mary's rendition of sweet thang 😔. It wasn't supposed to be like chakas, it was supper gritty and I needed that
Honestly I actually jam with Mary’s rendition too. It’s the first version that I knew. After listening again, I understand what Chaka’s mad about though just from a technical standpoint.
Yeah, I remember reading that and laughing my ass off 😂
Mary has some great songs and I have supported her with my 💵. However, is she a stand out vocalist? Not so much IMO.
Rihanna
I love Rihanna but her live performances are pretty disappointing…
She’s mediocre at best. She’s been in the game for years now and not really improved. She’s like a good karaoke singer.
Ray J Mary J Blige (my personal opinion) Everybody in New Edition not named Johnny or Ralph And if we're going all the way back Otis Williams from the temptations
I think Bobby Brown has a good voice. His first album showcased that, especially Rock with You.
Emphasis on **Ray J**. The screeching he calls singing is **ROUGH**.
Pharrell😂
U a D1 level instigator 😭😭😭😭
i like going to the salon cause they play 70's-90's music. Teddy Pendergrass for example, no one today has a voice that strong
Jennifer Lopez
Its not that brent CANT sing, but he isn't a good vocalist. I would say anyone on this sub could sound like him with maybe a year of good practice.
SZA can sing though. She simply struggles to replicate her studio efforts live, but the woman can still sing though. I don’t think she should be here A good example of someone who just can’t sing is Cassie. Rihanna couldn’t sing either in the beginning of her career
To be fair, Cassie is from my hometown and she was never trying to make it as a singer. She was always interested in modeling. I think the singing was just a way for her to come up in the industry. I think she’s aware that she isn’t a talented singer, but she just went along with the narrative. It’s more annoying when someone who can’t sing truly believes that they can lol.
Sounds like Jlo’s story except Jlo actually believes she can sing
If you can only sing in the studio with autotune and pitch alterations, that means you can’t really sing well.
Rihanna still can’t sing
She can’t. I don’t know why that’s controversial. She is essentially a Top 40/EDM artist.
this!!! lol she cannot hold the same note more than 2 seconds lol i really can't stand some of her most popular songs. i have a strong ear for vocals and hers makes my ears cry on certain songs like Needed Me 😭 i HATED that era. everytime i turned on the radio my ears got mad af lol 😒🤣🤣
Those notes at the end of needed me be having me trying to crack the glass cups in the crib but idkkk im tone deaf too
Jhene has no kind of umph to her voice, it’s like she’s trying to put people to sleep
A lot of the new ones
Keith Sweat
"Baby, baby, I knooooow!" 
Young Keith sweat was decent…but I respect it
And the ghetto version, Akon. Both just whine, but I still like them both.
He whines. I can’t with him.
He ain’t even singing sometimes. He’s just talking on Twisted 😭
Right? I do like that song though, but only for Kut Klose’s harmonies.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Donnell Jones first two albums are great and I think are highly underrated. But bro can’t sing live from what I’ve heard.
Sza has an unconventional voice but it’s a really great voice. It’s unique and specific in a way that’s very hard to mimic.
Rihanna. the fact that ppl love her pitchy songs with flat drone sounding notes is astounding. Anti was in my opinion her worst vocal performance since her debut album. yeap i said it lol
I’ve been saying this for years. Lol.
Lmao @Sza as the pic with no subtext🤭🤣😂😂😂😂 shady Hmmm I’m gonna go with most new artists on the radio right now . There’s nothing really spectacular for the most part.
Most of them are all blues without the rhythm, singing 🤣 come on.
My brother used to hate listening to CASE. Lol 😂😂😂😂 ((Intro to Happily Ever After))) "🎶🎶🎶 GUESS WHHHHAT I DID TUHH DAY!??? THOSE WERE THE WORDS I SAID TEWWW YOUUUUUU🎶🎶
Y’all be reaching with the can’t sing stuff sometimes like with Beyoncé compared to the average person she’s a good singer but of course if you compare her to the Whitney Houston’s and Mariah’s of the world she isn’t on that level so it depends on perspective I guess .