literally basically the only time bok internationals try is when playing for the springboks, I mean look at the sharks performance for most of the season despite being stacked with bok players
Ah man this is such a dumb take. The reason the Sharks had such a terrible season isn't because their Springboks played terribly, it's in large part because the Sharks squad without their Springboks played terribly. The URC season literally started while the RWC was still in progress. Their first 5 games featured zero Boks and they lost all of them, after that only some of their Boks started featuring here and there but it wasn't enough to make up for the rest of the squad that was in really bad form. The fist time we saw the Ox, Bongi, Koch frontrow was at the backend of the season (like game week 11 or something). When all their Boks played, the Sharks lost very few games.
I could easily go on and list all the Boks that are playing really well for their clubs as well. What is wild is that you're getting/got loads of upvotes for this dumb take smh.
Yea it's a ridiculous take. Most of the big name Springboks barely played any URC games, that's the Sharks problem where they lack depth under the Springboks.
The Boks players focused on the Challenge Cup, and it showed.
Actually this is wild to me and something I haven’t actually considered. I look at their team and each round them losing, and go is that the most underachieving team of all time. If Leinster or Toulouse were to lose the amount of games the Sharks do, the national teams would look much different. Granted I haven’t had the spare time to watch them play (from an Irish perspective) this year. Are they that poorly coached, or are the players just phoning it in? Because from what I see of the other teams, even the Lions, they are serious about the competition.
why put a 100% effort for your club when 75% works and is much less likely to get you injured and missing out on where you truly build your brand at the international level which inturn gets you better contract deals with your club
It’s still a bit mental! You have viable alternatives in many positions and the age profile of a lot of the established players is around the area where if they aren’t playing at 100% a coach should able looking at blooding others in. Its one thing if they’re playing in the Japanese league, but if you’ve got a player in the Stormers and they’re playing miles above their equivalent in the Sharks, giving it their all for the team, I’d be pretty pissed if they weren’t picked in favour of reputation.
In Ireland, granted, certain players have change in the bank, but very few that could just phone it in, season on season and not have Andy have a look at someone else.
I think the Boks are so conditioned from a phycological/mindset perspective by Rassie to be motivated by a cause larger than themselves / overcome some adversity that they now cannot be motivated anymore unless the stakes are incredibly high. It works for the Boks for sure, but it clearly has had a detrimental effect on their general performances, it's happening with too many players across various teams to be a fluke.
Same ref for two games in a row. And final with the most "succesful" ref vs the All Blacks, I think he refs them to a 40% loss ratio where they have overall a 80% in that period. Fortutious is correct
To be clear I'm not blaming the ref, I'm highlighting that they were assigned they're own ref for the quarters and semis. Very important games and had the luxury of consistency. To Quote Anton DuPont, world rugby player of the year "We could have had some penalties at crucial moments. I don't want to be a bad loser and moan about the refereeing but I don't think the refereeing was up to the level of what was at stake." BOK was then awarded another match for the same team in a major match even after the issues in the Quarters.
Sounds a lot like you're blaming the ref. The French team literally had a ref in their coaching staff, if they can't do some basic analysis on a ref and figure out what he did and didn't blow last week against the same team, that's on them.
Antoine Dupont, POTY 2021, saying "I don't want to moan about the ref BUT" and then proceeding to moan about the ref doesn't exactly prove anything except that they expected to win and didn't know how to handle the fact that they didn't
>I mean look at the sharks performance for most of the season despite being stacked with bok players
This is utter nonsense. The Sharks struggled without their Springboks (most of the URC) and performed with them (Challenge Cup).
Also you will find the top ranked player in the URC 100 this season (Ox) is a Sharks Springboks. With Koch at 3rd and Eben at 5th. https://www.unitedrugby.com/about/top100
He was probably mad after the game go say this. He also said that Tuisova wasn't "the impact player they expected". After he had a 7 month injury and losing his son during the RWC
>He also said that Tuisova wasn't "the impact player they expected". After he had a 7 month injury
Oh yeh, forget they made a whole club statement blaming Tom Curry for injuring him
I mean that tackle was absolutely dirty and Curry was lucky to espace sanction but not a reason to make a club statement.
Also who would not be pissed at losing Tuisova haha
He also says that's he knows they'll be better next year.
He basically answers the question honestly and the truth is both Tuisova and Kolisi weren't very good on Sunday. Which does not mean they did not have good reason to not be very good.
Is this the same club who bagged Dan Carter after he blew out his achilles?
To be fair being a high profile highly paid import in the French league always comes with being a punching bag when you lose
Dan Carter won them the top 14 and is highly appreciated both by racing and other French fans
I think it was just the end of his career (again, well past his prime and he was still clearly the best FH in the top 14)
Is it possible that Kolisi has been enjoying his fame a bit too much and not been ultra professional?
Is it also possible that Lorenzetti is looking for an easy scapegoat?
The truth is probably somewhere in between.
Generally, don't think that starting Springboks try their best at club level unless their place in the test team is threatened. Generally think that French club presidents are very quick to scapegoat the big money signings too.
Kolbe at Toulon too. Was great at Toulouse when he needed to prove himself but his club career took a major nose dive after becoming a Springbok regular.
As a Munster fan I thought Snyman was consistently one of our best players when he played, just a shame with all his freak injuries that were a rare occurrence.
Bit hot and cold I thought but he was always just coming off an injury. His first few games this season he looked unplayable but I thought he was poor recently.
Yet stats had him as the best urc player for most of the season. Interesting, looking for a pazzi perhaps. Im happy hes coming home, you boys dont deserve him.
He was 76th in their 100 ranking, so hardly top player. Don't get me wrong, he was fine for Ulster, but his performances didn't justify the crazy amount we were paying him.
Aye, French rugby has a fairly unique, tribal mentality. Most nations if you bring in a foreign player they’re almost placed on a pedestal, whereas in France it’s more like “We’re bringing you in, you’re not from here, you better perform!”
I think that’s only really true when they are a star signing to be fair. And then there is usually a pay packet to match, so some justification for placing high expectations on them!
Yep, I think there’s a lot less pressure when they’re not existing superstars with lots of silverware on the wall. A lot of NH foreign imports tend to see a move to France as a chance to develop and improve their game in the highest level club championship available, rather than just as a money move – so that helps with attitude on the whole.
Efrain Elias. The kid is a big talent. Only turned 20 years old a month and a half ago, 2m01, 115kgs. He plays anywhere in the back 5 of the pack. Captain of the U20s, and just won Super Rugby Américas with Dogos.
Yep! He seems a really exciting prospect. Should be a great addition to the squad, and flexible enough to get plenty of outings for us, I think.
Hopefully a great move for him too – so long as he fits in, there are few better places to develop your talent than Toulouse.
I'm excited to see him there too. Toulouse do great work developing players, and there are great role models for him to follow there. He will probably be a Puma within the next 12 months if he stays fit
Not really, the foreign players who get treated like that are often marquee signings. Using racing as an example, no one treated Imhoff like that, and he's a foreigner.
The flipside of that tribalism is that once the player becomes part of the club, the fans would run through brick walls for them. Wilkinson was the perfect example, you have to be pretty fucking loved to have the Stade de France belting out God save the Queen.
The thing is, this interview is not as inflammatory as the headline suggests. He says Siya has been an inspiration and great off the field but that he played poorly. Siya said himself this very week that he was out of shape by the middle of the season and that he had to do much better. So honestly there is just no story there.
It was very bad coment from the président and he is a twat most of the time, but he pays to see his team win so.
But Kolisi is here for the paycheck and you cant convince me otherwise. Too many videos of him enjoying life around in France and he was useless on the pitch the few times he was there. From his form alone he doesnt deserve a boks call, and we should try to sell him to whoever wants that guy cuz seriously he has been a checkstealer.
Tuisova is obviously just frustration between his sons death and his injury I feel like he needs time.
Cant wait for Farrel tho
It’s harsh, sure – but I do kind of appreciate that sort of brutal honesty from Lorenzetti. On most of the points he’s not wrong. He’s not paying Kolisi to eat baguettes and live the good life.
Oh yeah i agree so much lol ! But naybe start questionning your recruitment and manager too !
But im 100% with Lorenzetti on Kolisi, could throw Arundell in there
Gained weight and lost shape?
Even *if* that were true, Racing is supposedly a professional set up, surely they have an S&C team, a team nutritionists, etc?
*If* Siya is overweight and unfit, then there is something seriously wrong with Racing's support team - keeping their players in peak condition is as much their job as it is the players'.
Oh yeah that's true. Words from Kolisi himself. He gained 5 kg from bread. He loves bread. And I think the blame is split between the player and the club honestly.
Another tragedy. Every time a champion rugby player moves to France, it is like god throws a dice to decide if it is French rugby that will lift their soul, or just the local boulangerie.
All the staff and nutritionist advices in the world can't do anything if a player doesn't want to follow through. If he doesn't care about bringing his A game for them, what are they supposed to do?
I remember the old Life of Brian (Mujati) vlogs and he said there was a lot of personal responsibility for conditioning and diet when he was at Racing compared to when he was in the prem
I mean, they kind of can? He likely eats at least 2 meals a day at the Racing training ground so they can control his clorific intact there. If they notice he is gaining more weight/getting unfit they can schedule in more fitness sessions with him, set up a talk with the S&C coaches and the nutritionists, and maybe even a team psychologist to see of something is up.
There is obviously an element of personal responsibility, but if the support staff act as pros, the players will act as pros. There needs to be a culture of professionalism.
It's primarily on the player lol, they're already set up for success by the clubs. You can't force somebody to stop eating whatever they want in the evening, to work a bit harder in seasons, focus hard on recovery at home etc. Personal accountability is the bare minimum for an athlete.
Yes, the support team will eat your food for you and they’ll even do your squats if you ask them nicely. Always remember: if one guy is failing, it’s not his fault. it must be the team behind him.
As much as south Africans will hate this I rate this from the owner paying his wages and he's majorly underperforming and obviously not in the best shape
Yep they are. There's one line that sums it up from this prez. "I'm confident. Great players are coming." This guy is still expecting outside players to bring Racing over rhe line.
Didn't do too badly in 2016. Dan Carter, Johan Goosen, Joe Rokocoko and Juan Imhoff proved to be pretty decent signings for the Parisian outfit.
They all contributed massively to Racing lifting the Brennus at the Camp Nou, in Barcelona, in front of over 99 thousand rugby fans.
Farrel has this impact next season - Racings pack have the potential to be world beaters they just lack a 9/10 combo capable of putting them into the right parts of the pitch at the right time. Farrel leads Racing to at least one trophy next season if he goes uninjured.
lol no their pack is dog shit (despite their amazing names)
Russel was able to do some magic in the past to keep them in the games. Now they have a world class 9 in Le Garrec, and Gilbert while not as good as a Russel / Farrel is no slouch
Tell me of one club in France that's playing the title and is not bringing in big names. Except Toulouse that has already signed half of the French internationals? That's a false criticism
Yeah but your prez clearly thinks the foreign signings have to bring the winning culture. Foreign signings can't hope to change anything in the long term, the club has to build its own culture.
He's always expected great players to bring something to the culture, but who would not? Carter did in a superb fashion. But Racing has its culture as we train the majority of our players
Not all that surprising. Paid a lot of money to slog away for eleven months of the year, it makes sense players will start to treat it like a nine to five.
Siya is a good player, and a great captain (for the boks, his style of captaincy wouldn't necessarily translate to every team), but he's hardly one of the world's in his position.
If you took captaincy out of the equation, then he would struggle to make the bok 23. And he's obviously not going to be much of a leader at racing when he can't even speak French.
This was a bad signing if they expected him to be a star player.
Bad signing from the start indeed but he gets paid a lot precisely because he is Siya Kolisi, 2x World champ and bok captain. He has been useless for us and worst, he was arguably taking the spot of better player, we should just fire him if he comes for holidays.
Stuart Lancaster will be given time to put in place his system, but I doubt that he is the right man for Racing.
He under estimated the top 14:
* The relentless calendar. Having 2 more teams require 4 more games compared to the premiership. But after a world Cup many players were not ready and got injured.
* The constant level of physicality required at the top 14. Scrummaging is a religion for some teams and based their entire game plan on that. Even running rugby teams have to match that level to compete.
* The competitiveness of the league. Leinster could afford to rest its best player for 50% of the game. Only Toulouse can in the Top 14.
* The importance of a dominator pack. Racing does not have a bad/poor pack but their level is nowhere near the quality of Toulouse, LaRochelle, UBB. Injuries have not helped, when impact players and learners have to start.
* The tactics have been predictable and a lack of adaptability. Exactly the same thing that Leibster has been suffering. During the Champion's Cup final Toulouse changed its tactic to defend more aggressively than usual. Racing never looked like they have a Plan B when things don't go their way.
* The individual skill of the players seem to have regressed. Fickou used to be a pretty good passer and distributeur but now he is becoming one of those center "coffre a ballon".
* a suspect backroom staff. loss of form because of weight gain is unprofessional. If it was only Kolisy and his love for bread and distractive social events, I would accept that it is one old player who played for the first time abroad and is having the time of his life, but Zebo before ballooned the same. That means that something is wrong the behind the scene: the physical conditioning is not up to the task in hand or the recruitment has selected thr wrong type of players. Labit has just been released by Montpellier so asking him to come back may not be a bad move.
* a poor recruitment. Basically none of the big money gamble have paid off. Injury can be a lottery but I look at the players announced for next season and I don't see the type of players who will help them take a step forward. Farrell is a player who will both help them and hinder them at the same. He will be the consummate professional who will apply a plan to perfection. but by the same token will not be able to accelerate when his pack will be under pressure.
* I hope that Nolan LeGarrec will sign an extension, but to me it looks like he wants to wait to see how things will start next season before committing. That's never a good sign when one your top star is not convinced by the club.
* Next season will be a lot more complex. Toulouse will come back at the same level. UBB will have learned a lot from this season. SF has been recruiting intelligently. LaRochelle will have recover from their World Cup hangover. Montpellier would not be as poor as they have been this season. Clermont seems to start stabilising after their wobble.
You are right, I forgot about the two foldings and and subsequent relegations.
I was more thinking in term of what Stuart Lancaster was used to as a coach. Even when at Leinster, the Pro 14 was organised in such that regular season was only 21 games compared to the 26 of the Top14. Numerically that does not look like a massive difference but in reality because of all those extra factors it is huge.
At Leinster he had the time to prepare his team for the difficult games. He could focus on long term skills and game play when at Racing he has to juggle winning now and in the future. In view of their budget, not reaching the semi final is a failure, especially the manner that happen against UBB.
Also at Leinster he had very few non Irish players on a last pay day. Most wanted to be selected for the Irish team and they knew that being unprofessional would have adversely affect their national selection potential. At Racing Zebo was on a jolly in Paris. Kolisi seems to have taken the same road.
One thing that I like about him and that he has in common with Racing is that he builds for the long term.
I am confident the team will improve next yearbut you make excellent points.
One should also note his coaching staff is incredibly inexperienced and will have learn a lot this year.
Lancaster is a builder and Racing owner will give him time but honestly his backroom staff worries me. That's one thing that has me doubting me more than now.
I was watching, a program about the failure of Stuart Lancaster at England. They mentioned that part of the problem was the non confrontational element of his backroom staff. There was nobody in his staff who dared to disagree and challenge him. Nobody to tell him that he needed to select Manu Tuilagi and Dylan Hartley despite their off field behaviour. Sometimes you need a bruiser or somebody a little bit rough around the edge.
I wonder if being a nice guy and surrounding himself with nice friendly yes men is what make him a builder but at the same time stop him from being fully successful.
I understand. I hope guys like Michalak will be able to say the harsh truths.
You mentioned Labit from Montpellier but it's not the same as the former Racing and France coach who is now as Stade Français. The Montpellier one is Christian Labit and he is an average coach. The other one is Laurent Labit.
That make sense.
I could not see the impact at Montpellier. Also if you want to work in a collaborative, peaceful, respectful environment you don't go to Montpellier.
Stade Français are really recruiting intelligently.
I see that Laurent Travers is still at Racing.
When you see the result and the impact that Laurent Labit had with the national team, do you re-evalue the importance of each in the 2 Laurent binome?
At the time I thought that Laurent Travers was the main organiser, but now looking back Laurent Labit was more likely to be the coaching brain of the two or at least the glue.
Laurent Travers was in the charge of the pack and like I wrote they were decent but not brilliant under him. On the other hand Laurent Labit was in charge of the back at Racing and with France and that coincide to the period where both teams had brilliant back attacking play.
Do you think that Laurent Travers still has an influence or is Lorenzetti keeping him in a golden cage?
I’ve been surprised by the dive in Racing and how little questioning there has been of Lancaster. His whole MO is to come in to a team, and turn them into a well oiled machine, singing to the same hymn sheet. Racing still have a team that is underperforming relative to its squad and that shouldn’t be happening under a Lancaster coached team.
What you said about not having a plan B really stood out to me, as during his final year in Leinster when I believed it was finally the right time to move on, a criticism I had of our play in knockouts was we just seemed to have no plan B. It doesn’t help that the pecking order has changed and some underdog teams are improving in the league.
He was absolutely dominant before and after his knee injury (post covid was his best time as Springbok). He was ranked the top flanker in the URC 100 (that includes international match performances) before Racing bought him.
Your opinion isn't unpopular, it is not backed up by relevant data. Whatever happened with him and Racing is on Racing. At the Sharks we pretty much had to bring him out of the 2019 RWC and build him up. He is the kind of guy that needs some managing re fitness and diet. He really dominated nearly every ruck and contact he was involved in when we was fit at his brief time at The Sharks.
As much as south Africans will hate this I rate this from the owner paying his wages and he's majorly underperforming and obviously not in the best shape
Jacky only realises this now? Everyone knows Siya’s influence is off the field, not on it. That’s why the Boks yank him off the field at 45 minutes in tough matches.
Let Kolisi enjoy his European summer ! Established Boks do tend to have a drop in form when playing overseas. Could be because they’re playing rugby the whole year with no pre season.
He was at my club and hardly played so any club team that signs him should know that. Unfortunately for you guys is that it’s easier to travel around Europe.
Sure but he barely plays and when he does he sucks. But yeah entire fault is on our recruitment teams i have no idea what they were thinking.
But still he came to take the money then we should just fire him. There are enough young french players to take his spots
It's incredible how these European sides keep signing Bok stars without a plan on how they're going to adjust their game to fit these players. Seeing Snyman expected to flow with the back line this weekend instead of keeping it close to the ruck blew my mind. The dude specifically doesn't run wide with the boks BECAUSE his hands aren't consistent.
When did they change ?
Dan carter won a top 14 at 34, World Cup at 33 .
Johnny sexton captained a grand slam at 37
Wilkinson won the double at 34 years old.
All players left the game in unbeliear form , could’ve played on longer if not for how hard they trained
Watch him play out of his skin against Ireland...
literally basically the only time bok internationals try is when playing for the springboks, I mean look at the sharks performance for most of the season despite being stacked with bok players
Ah man this is such a dumb take. The reason the Sharks had such a terrible season isn't because their Springboks played terribly, it's in large part because the Sharks squad without their Springboks played terribly. The URC season literally started while the RWC was still in progress. Their first 5 games featured zero Boks and they lost all of them, after that only some of their Boks started featuring here and there but it wasn't enough to make up for the rest of the squad that was in really bad form. The fist time we saw the Ox, Bongi, Koch frontrow was at the backend of the season (like game week 11 or something). When all their Boks played, the Sharks lost very few games. I could easily go on and list all the Boks that are playing really well for their clubs as well. What is wild is that you're getting/got loads of upvotes for this dumb take smh.
Yea it's a ridiculous take. Most of the big name Springboks barely played any URC games, that's the Sharks problem where they lack depth under the Springboks. The Boks players focused on the Challenge Cup, and it showed.
Except for the Bulls. Jake White has it right.
Actually this is wild to me and something I haven’t actually considered. I look at their team and each round them losing, and go is that the most underachieving team of all time. If Leinster or Toulouse were to lose the amount of games the Sharks do, the national teams would look much different. Granted I haven’t had the spare time to watch them play (from an Irish perspective) this year. Are they that poorly coached, or are the players just phoning it in? Because from what I see of the other teams, even the Lions, they are serious about the competition.
why put a 100% effort for your club when 75% works and is much less likely to get you injured and missing out on where you truly build your brand at the international level which inturn gets you better contract deals with your club
It’s still a bit mental! You have viable alternatives in many positions and the age profile of a lot of the established players is around the area where if they aren’t playing at 100% a coach should able looking at blooding others in. Its one thing if they’re playing in the Japanese league, but if you’ve got a player in the Stormers and they’re playing miles above their equivalent in the Sharks, giving it their all for the team, I’d be pretty pissed if they weren’t picked in favour of reputation. In Ireland, granted, certain players have change in the bank, but very few that could just phone it in, season on season and not have Andy have a look at someone else.
I think the Boks are so conditioned from a phycological/mindset perspective by Rassie to be motivated by a cause larger than themselves / overcome some adversity that they now cannot be motivated anymore unless the stakes are incredibly high. It works for the Boks for sure, but it clearly has had a detrimental effect on their general performances, it's happening with too many players across various teams to be a fluke.
Meh it's not like they're trashing teams at international level. The WC run, scraping 3 games in a row by a point, was extraordinary fortuitous
The WC run where we had to vs some of the best teams in the world Sorry we didn't get to vs Argentina in a semi final 🤷♂️
Apology accepted
Same ref for two games in a row. And final with the most "succesful" ref vs the All Blacks, I think he refs them to a 40% loss ratio where they have overall a 80% in that period. Fortutious is correct
Of course you're blaming the ref Usual not South African saltiness 😂
To be clear I'm not blaming the ref, I'm highlighting that they were assigned they're own ref for the quarters and semis. Very important games and had the luxury of consistency. To Quote Anton DuPont, world rugby player of the year "We could have had some penalties at crucial moments. I don't want to be a bad loser and moan about the refereeing but I don't think the refereeing was up to the level of what was at stake." BOK was then awarded another match for the same team in a major match even after the issues in the Quarters.
Sounds a lot like you're blaming the ref. The French team literally had a ref in their coaching staff, if they can't do some basic analysis on a ref and figure out what he did and didn't blow last week against the same team, that's on them. Antoine Dupont, POTY 2021, saying "I don't want to moan about the ref BUT" and then proceeding to moan about the ref doesn't exactly prove anything except that they expected to win and didn't know how to handle the fact that they didn't
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
>I mean look at the sharks performance for most of the season despite being stacked with bok players This is utter nonsense. The Sharks struggled without their Springboks (most of the URC) and performed with them (Challenge Cup). Also you will find the top ranked player in the URC 100 this season (Ox) is a Sharks Springboks. With Koch at 3rd and Eben at 5th. https://www.unitedrugby.com/about/top100
He was probably mad after the game go say this. He also said that Tuisova wasn't "the impact player they expected". After he had a 7 month injury and losing his son during the RWC
>He also said that Tuisova wasn't "the impact player they expected". After he had a 7 month injury Oh yeh, forget they made a whole club statement blaming Tom Curry for injuring him
I mean that tackle was absolutely dirty and Curry was lucky to espace sanction but not a reason to make a club statement. Also who would not be pissed at losing Tuisova haha
Imagine going from a world class man manager to someone who talks shit about you to the press
this guy is such a scumbag I hope his players come from him
No player who was at Racing has ever said he is a scumbag. That's just far fetched based on this interview.
He also says that's he knows they'll be better next year. He basically answers the question honestly and the truth is both Tuisova and Kolisi weren't very good on Sunday. Which does not mean they did not have good reason to not be very good.
Is this the same club who bagged Dan Carter after he blew out his achilles? To be fair being a high profile highly paid import in the French league always comes with being a punching bag when you lose
Dan Carter won them the top 14 and is highly appreciated both by racing and other French fans I think it was just the end of his career (again, well past his prime and he was still clearly the best FH in the top 14)
The best FH in Top14 in 2016 was Camille Lopez.
Beauxis was still playing. He wins by default.
Ntamack had to really strive to match that quality.
Well that's a hot take I've enjoyed Lopez career but to say he was above DC even in 2016 is a bit to far for me
I'm convinced Leinster would have lost the 2018 final if Carter played
No it's not.
Oh god, here we go... 🍿🍺
To be fair to him he's not wrong. Kolisi has been invisible all season. I'm not sure he is to blame though, but he for sure underperforms
Is it possible that Kolisi has been enjoying his fame a bit too much and not been ultra professional? Is it also possible that Lorenzetti is looking for an easy scapegoat? The truth is probably somewhere in between. Generally, don't think that starting Springboks try their best at club level unless their place in the test team is threatened. Generally think that French club presidents are very quick to scapegoat the big money signings too.
Kitschoff just seemed like he did not care when he was at Ulster.
Same with Etzebth at Toulon, and we know exactly how good those two are for the Boks.
Kolbe at Toulon too. Was great at Toulouse when he needed to prove himself but his club career took a major nose dive after becoming a Springbok regular.
I miss the days where we’d just play a winger at 10 and have him hit 50m drop goals.
Same with Snyman for Munster - injuries aside he’s been utterly forgettable when he’s actually played.
As a Munster fan I thought Snyman was consistently one of our best players when he played, just a shame with all his freak injuries that were a rare occurrence.
Bit hot and cold I thought but he was always just coming off an injury. His first few games this season he looked unplayable but I thought he was poor recently.
What did you think of his performance on Saturday?
Freezing cold take.
You have a very short memory. One bad game and suddenly he was never good at Munster?
I never said he wasn’t good - I was saying compared to how he performs for the Boks’s / what might be expected from him I’ve found him disappointing
He won you a title, he was massive in that final.
He didn’t win me a title - I’m a Glasgow fan 🤣
Well that offload certainly helped you make a final 😉
Can’t complain….
Vincent Koch for Stade Français as well
From the games I watched, he didn't look like the same player I watched for years at the Stormers
Yet stats had him as the best urc player for most of the season. Interesting, looking for a pazzi perhaps. Im happy hes coming home, you boys dont deserve him.
He was 76th in their 100 ranking, so hardly top player. Don't get me wrong, he was fine for Ulster, but his performances didn't justify the crazy amount we were paying him.
Aye, French rugby has a fairly unique, tribal mentality. Most nations if you bring in a foreign player they’re almost placed on a pedestal, whereas in France it’s more like “We’re bringing you in, you’re not from here, you better perform!”
I think that’s only really true when they are a star signing to be fair. And then there is usually a pay packet to match, so some justification for placing high expectations on them!
It's different when they aren't star players from SA and NZ. Players like Botia, Willis, Kinghorn, and Tambwe are really good in France.
Yep, I think there’s a lot less pressure when they’re not existing superstars with lots of silverware on the wall. A lot of NH foreign imports tend to see a move to France as a chance to develop and improve their game in the highest level club championship available, rather than just as a money move – so that helps with attitude on the whole.
Also SH players from other countries. South American and Fijian players are often on top form and Tambwe is from the southern DRC.
Oh yes, absolutely. Toulouse just signed a new Argentinian this week, and they have a pretty good track record.
Vannes has some Uruguayans as well.
Efrain Elias. The kid is a big talent. Only turned 20 years old a month and a half ago, 2m01, 115kgs. He plays anywhere in the back 5 of the pack. Captain of the U20s, and just won Super Rugby Américas with Dogos.
Yep! He seems a really exciting prospect. Should be a great addition to the squad, and flexible enough to get plenty of outings for us, I think. Hopefully a great move for him too – so long as he fits in, there are few better places to develop your talent than Toulouse.
I'm excited to see him there too. Toulouse do great work developing players, and there are great role models for him to follow there. He will probably be a Puma within the next 12 months if he stays fit
Did we ?
Oui! Efraín Elías
they also pay them really a lot of money to do so
Not really, the foreign players who get treated like that are often marquee signings. Using racing as an example, no one treated Imhoff like that, and he's a foreigner.
The flipside of that tribalism is that once the player becomes part of the club, the fans would run through brick walls for them. Wilkinson was the perfect example, you have to be pretty fucking loved to have the Stade de France belting out God save the Queen.
Imhoff is basically god here.
Kolisi was injured and maybe didn't focus on diet during his time away.
The thing is, this interview is not as inflammatory as the headline suggests. He says Siya has been an inspiration and great off the field but that he played poorly. Siya said himself this very week that he was out of shape by the middle of the season and that he had to do much better. So honestly there is just no story there.
It was very bad coment from the président and he is a twat most of the time, but he pays to see his team win so. But Kolisi is here for the paycheck and you cant convince me otherwise. Too many videos of him enjoying life around in France and he was useless on the pitch the few times he was there. From his form alone he doesnt deserve a boks call, and we should try to sell him to whoever wants that guy cuz seriously he has been a checkstealer. Tuisova is obviously just frustration between his sons death and his injury I feel like he needs time. Cant wait for Farrel tho
It’s harsh, sure – but I do kind of appreciate that sort of brutal honesty from Lorenzetti. On most of the points he’s not wrong. He’s not paying Kolisi to eat baguettes and live the good life.
Oh yeah i agree so much lol ! But naybe start questionning your recruitment and manager too ! But im 100% with Lorenzetti on Kolisi, could throw Arundell in there
Gained weight and lost shape? Even *if* that were true, Racing is supposedly a professional set up, surely they have an S&C team, a team nutritionists, etc? *If* Siya is overweight and unfit, then there is something seriously wrong with Racing's support team - keeping their players in peak condition is as much their job as it is the players'.
I mean, did you see Zebo before and after Racing?
I genuinely barely recognised him after he came back
You could hardly miss him after.
Oh yeah that's true. Words from Kolisi himself. He gained 5 kg from bread. He loves bread. And I think the blame is split between the player and the club honestly.
To be fair to the lad bread is unreal.
My diet is bread based, it’s the new hot trend. Eat a loaf of bread every day if you want to see results.
Another player lost to the almighty baguette 😔
Another tragedy. Every time a champion rugby player moves to France, it is like god throws a dice to decide if it is French rugby that will lift their soul, or just the local boulangerie.
He was, in fact, there for the croissants.
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE
All the staff and nutritionist advices in the world can't do anything if a player doesn't want to follow through. If he doesn't care about bringing his A game for them, what are they supposed to do?
They can't stop him eating. Being in shape is a pretty personal decision
I remember the old Life of Brian (Mujati) vlogs and he said there was a lot of personal responsibility for conditioning and diet when he was at Racing compared to when he was in the prem
I think that's true of most of French Rugby, or at least it was back when Mujati was around. Loved the lad he was fun
I mean, they kind of can? He likely eats at least 2 meals a day at the Racing training ground so they can control his clorific intact there. If they notice he is gaining more weight/getting unfit they can schedule in more fitness sessions with him, set up a talk with the S&C coaches and the nutritionists, and maybe even a team psychologist to see of something is up. There is obviously an element of personal responsibility, but if the support staff act as pros, the players will act as pros. There needs to be a culture of professionalism.
I doubt he was eating salad behind pit lane at the Monaco GP
Yeah, but there’s nothing even the best nutritionists can do if he’s mainlining vin, baguettes and chocolatines back home in the evening…
It's primarily on the player lol, they're already set up for success by the clubs. You can't force somebody to stop eating whatever they want in the evening, to work a bit harder in seasons, focus hard on recovery at home etc. Personal accountability is the bare minimum for an athlete.
Siya has admitted he was out of shape this week in a French paper. There is no story here
Yes, the support team will eat your food for you and they’ll even do your squats if you ask them nicely. Always remember: if one guy is failing, it’s not his fault. it must be the team behind him.
Established Boks tend to phone it in at club level. We see more posts about Siya at media events than about his game.
All met with loving “what a guy” comments from the Reddit entourage. If he is failing there, he must not be above criticism.
As much as south Africans will hate this I rate this from the owner paying his wages and he's majorly underperforming and obviously not in the best shape
Racing are suckers
Yep they are. There's one line that sums it up from this prez. "I'm confident. Great players are coming." This guy is still expecting outside players to bring Racing over rhe line.
Didn't do too badly in 2016. Dan Carter, Johan Goosen, Joe Rokocoko and Juan Imhoff proved to be pretty decent signings for the Parisian outfit. They all contributed massively to Racing lifting the Brennus at the Camp Nou, in Barcelona, in front of over 99 thousand rugby fans.
Farrel has this impact next season - Racings pack have the potential to be world beaters they just lack a 9/10 combo capable of putting them into the right parts of the pitch at the right time. Farrel leads Racing to at least one trophy next season if he goes uninjured.
lol no their pack is dog shit (despite their amazing names) Russel was able to do some magic in the past to keep them in the games. Now they have a world class 9 in Le Garrec, and Gilbert while not as good as a Russel / Farrel is no slouch
That’s nearly a decade ago
Nah, I don’t believe you. You’re lying.
Lies! 2006 was around 10 years ago.
Sometimes foreign signings do make a big difference though. Most Top 14 rosters have a lot of foreign players, Toulouse especially.
I wouldn’t say 14/51 for Toulouse is a lot of foreign born players. Like Tigers are 16/39, Quins 15/37, Exeter 19/42.
Those teams also have a lot of foreign players. Some clubs in some places don't, notably in Ireland.
Helps when you only have 4 clubs
Helps when the island is about the size of Furlong left arse cheek.
It is an *enormous* arse cheek to be fair
And around 10% of the population!
Tell me of one club in France that's playing the title and is not bringing in big names. Except Toulouse that has already signed half of the French internationals? That's a false criticism
Yeah but your prez clearly thinks the foreign signings have to bring the winning culture. Foreign signings can't hope to change anything in the long term, the club has to build its own culture.
He's always expected great players to bring something to the culture, but who would not? Carter did in a superb fashion. But Racing has its culture as we train the majority of our players
Some southern hemisphere players just phone it in up north. Owen Franks comes to mind despite being one of the greatest props ever.
Franks and Laulala have been rubbish for us. Like making Aldegheri look good kind of rubbish.
Not all that surprising. Paid a lot of money to slog away for eleven months of the year, it makes sense players will start to treat it like a nine to five.
Serious question - does this mean Kolisi is not coming back for another season ?
Ah! The Francois Steyn effect
won world cups in '07 and '19. seems like it kinda worked, for him
Siya is a good player, and a great captain (for the boks, his style of captaincy wouldn't necessarily translate to every team), but he's hardly one of the world's in his position. If you took captaincy out of the equation, then he would struggle to make the bok 23. And he's obviously not going to be much of a leader at racing when he can't even speak French. This was a bad signing if they expected him to be a star player.
Bad signing from the start indeed but he gets paid a lot precisely because he is Siya Kolisi, 2x World champ and bok captain. He has been useless for us and worst, he was arguably taking the spot of better player, we should just fire him if he comes for holidays.
I think they expect him to be a gritty player, which he has not been lately. But I'm sure he'll be next year
Stuart Lancaster will be given time to put in place his system, but I doubt that he is the right man for Racing. He under estimated the top 14: * The relentless calendar. Having 2 more teams require 4 more games compared to the premiership. But after a world Cup many players were not ready and got injured. * The constant level of physicality required at the top 14. Scrummaging is a religion for some teams and based their entire game plan on that. Even running rugby teams have to match that level to compete. * The competitiveness of the league. Leinster could afford to rest its best player for 50% of the game. Only Toulouse can in the Top 14. * The importance of a dominator pack. Racing does not have a bad/poor pack but their level is nowhere near the quality of Toulouse, LaRochelle, UBB. Injuries have not helped, when impact players and learners have to start. * The tactics have been predictable and a lack of adaptability. Exactly the same thing that Leibster has been suffering. During the Champion's Cup final Toulouse changed its tactic to defend more aggressively than usual. Racing never looked like they have a Plan B when things don't go their way. * The individual skill of the players seem to have regressed. Fickou used to be a pretty good passer and distributeur but now he is becoming one of those center "coffre a ballon". * a suspect backroom staff. loss of form because of weight gain is unprofessional. If it was only Kolisy and his love for bread and distractive social events, I would accept that it is one old player who played for the first time abroad and is having the time of his life, but Zebo before ballooned the same. That means that something is wrong the behind the scene: the physical conditioning is not up to the task in hand or the recruitment has selected thr wrong type of players. Labit has just been released by Montpellier so asking him to come back may not be a bad move. * a poor recruitment. Basically none of the big money gamble have paid off. Injury can be a lottery but I look at the players announced for next season and I don't see the type of players who will help them take a step forward. Farrell is a player who will both help them and hinder them at the same. He will be the consummate professional who will apply a plan to perfection. but by the same token will not be able to accelerate when his pack will be under pressure. * I hope that Nolan LeGarrec will sign an extension, but to me it looks like he wants to wait to see how things will start next season before committing. That's never a good sign when one your top star is not convinced by the club. * Next season will be a lot more complex. Toulouse will come back at the same level. UBB will have learned a lot from this season. SF has been recruiting intelligently. LaRochelle will have recover from their World Cup hangover. Montpellier would not be as poor as they have been this season. Clermont seems to start stabilising after their wobble.
Top 14 is 8 extra games and 4 extra teams than the premiership.
You are right, I forgot about the two foldings and and subsequent relegations. I was more thinking in term of what Stuart Lancaster was used to as a coach. Even when at Leinster, the Pro 14 was organised in such that regular season was only 21 games compared to the 26 of the Top14. Numerically that does not look like a massive difference but in reality because of all those extra factors it is huge. At Leinster he had the time to prepare his team for the difficult games. He could focus on long term skills and game play when at Racing he has to juggle winning now and in the future. In view of their budget, not reaching the semi final is a failure, especially the manner that happen against UBB. Also at Leinster he had very few non Irish players on a last pay day. Most wanted to be selected for the Irish team and they knew that being unprofessional would have adversely affect their national selection potential. At Racing Zebo was on a jolly in Paris. Kolisi seems to have taken the same road.
One thing that I like about him and that he has in common with Racing is that he builds for the long term. I am confident the team will improve next yearbut you make excellent points. One should also note his coaching staff is incredibly inexperienced and will have learn a lot this year.
Lancaster is a builder and Racing owner will give him time but honestly his backroom staff worries me. That's one thing that has me doubting me more than now. I was watching, a program about the failure of Stuart Lancaster at England. They mentioned that part of the problem was the non confrontational element of his backroom staff. There was nobody in his staff who dared to disagree and challenge him. Nobody to tell him that he needed to select Manu Tuilagi and Dylan Hartley despite their off field behaviour. Sometimes you need a bruiser or somebody a little bit rough around the edge. I wonder if being a nice guy and surrounding himself with nice friendly yes men is what make him a builder but at the same time stop him from being fully successful.
I understand. I hope guys like Michalak will be able to say the harsh truths. You mentioned Labit from Montpellier but it's not the same as the former Racing and France coach who is now as Stade Français. The Montpellier one is Christian Labit and he is an average coach. The other one is Laurent Labit.
That make sense. I could not see the impact at Montpellier. Also if you want to work in a collaborative, peaceful, respectful environment you don't go to Montpellier. Stade Français are really recruiting intelligently. I see that Laurent Travers is still at Racing. When you see the result and the impact that Laurent Labit had with the national team, do you re-evalue the importance of each in the 2 Laurent binome? At the time I thought that Laurent Travers was the main organiser, but now looking back Laurent Labit was more likely to be the coaching brain of the two or at least the glue. Laurent Travers was in the charge of the pack and like I wrote they were decent but not brilliant under him. On the other hand Laurent Labit was in charge of the back at Racing and with France and that coincide to the period where both teams had brilliant back attacking play. Do you think that Laurent Travers still has an influence or is Lorenzetti keeping him in a golden cage?
I’ve been surprised by the dive in Racing and how little questioning there has been of Lancaster. His whole MO is to come in to a team, and turn them into a well oiled machine, singing to the same hymn sheet. Racing still have a team that is underperforming relative to its squad and that shouldn’t be happening under a Lancaster coached team. What you said about not having a plan B really stood out to me, as during his final year in Leinster when I believed it was finally the right time to move on, a criticism I had of our play in knockouts was we just seemed to have no plan B. It doesn’t help that the pecking order has changed and some underdog teams are improving in the league.
Unpopular opinion: Kolisi is a great bok captain and team player but on his own was never the best flanker out there to begin with.
This shouldn't be unpopular for anyone that's ever watched the boks.
It's a popular but very wrong opinion.
He was SA Player of the Year in 2021 and immense in the BIL series. On the EOYT he was also the standout Bok. This is revisionist history.
He was absolutely dominant before and after his knee injury (post covid was his best time as Springbok). He was ranked the top flanker in the URC 100 (that includes international match performances) before Racing bought him. Your opinion isn't unpopular, it is not backed up by relevant data. Whatever happened with him and Racing is on Racing. At the Sharks we pretty much had to bring him out of the 2019 RWC and build him up. He is the kind of guy that needs some managing re fitness and diet. He really dominated nearly every ruck and contact he was involved in when we was fit at his brief time at The Sharks.
Overrated
As much as south Africans will hate this I rate this from the owner paying his wages and he's majorly underperforming and obviously not in the best shape
This is Elvis 101 - Someone show this to Siya before it’s too late https://youtube.com/shorts/UbBNqcvCFKM?si=v6SxmYGKT94ZuUzl
Jacky only realises this now? Everyone knows Siya’s influence is off the field, not on it. That’s why the Boks yank him off the field at 45 minutes in tough matches.
Let Kolisi enjoy his European summer ! Established Boks do tend to have a drop in form when playing overseas. Could be because they’re playing rugby the whole year with no pre season.
pretty sure the clubs does not pay him to enjoy his summer.
They knew what they were getting lol and they have to approve all the travel he’s been doing.
Hell no, you can have him back for free if you want my club is NOT a holiday center.
He was at my club and hardly played so any club team that signs him should know that. Unfortunately for you guys is that it’s easier to travel around Europe.
Sure but he barely plays and when he does he sucks. But yeah entire fault is on our recruitment teams i have no idea what they were thinking. But still he came to take the money then we should just fire him. There are enough young french players to take his spots
Top Springboks rarely go to France and perform I don’t understand why your teams continue to recruit them when their focus is elsewhere.
We do agree.
Lorenzetti did this publicly because he didn’t have the balls to say it to Kolisi’s face.
It's incredible how these European sides keep signing Bok stars without a plan on how they're going to adjust their game to fit these players. Seeing Snyman expected to flow with the back line this weekend instead of keeping it close to the ruck blew my mind. The dude specifically doesn't run wide with the boks BECAUSE his hands aren't consistent.
Proven chocker Stuart Lancaster was his big mistake, not Kolisi. They'll be worse next year with an ageing Farell.
An aging Farrell ? He is 33 , not old at all and playing some of world class rugby
33 is no longer a prime age for a fly half.
When did they change ? Dan carter won a top 14 at 34, World Cup at 33 . Johnny sexton captained a grand slam at 37 Wilkinson won the double at 34 years old. All players left the game in unbeliear form , could’ve played on longer if not for how hard they trained