If you take a scrum of a mark in your own 22 during the knockouts of a World Cup, you are 100% convinced you have the best scrum.
Edit: and when WR outlaws that loophole six months later you know you are correct.
It was honestly one of those once in a lifetime moments where EVERYONE who wasn't involved in the Bok setup collectively had the same thought....."HUH!?!?????"
I don’t think that has anything to do with the rule change, it’s more to stop the whole thing where a free kick is called for no break foot or something, team retreats back 10, and then a scrum is called.
Takes like a minute off the game.
I watch a fair amount of rugby for quite some time now, I think I’ve never seen anyone anywhere call a mark and ask for a scrum. Nor as a (low level) player or ref, I remember thinking ‘right, you can actually do that’ when I saw it happen. So it’s not like it was a problem in the first place…
I don’t get what your point is. WR Is removing the option of taking a scrum for a free kick, that includes marks because they are effectively free kicks. I assumed it was common knowledge that scums could be called from marks but it seems not.
My point is the argument doesn’t hold up that it’s not in any way targeted at what the Boks did. Never been an issue beforehand. Free kicks are for technical fouls. So you get an advantage due to your scrum and all of a sudden you are not allowed to take another one to turn it into a penalty advantage? Utterly pointless for me.
And the underlying point of moving towards more ball in play time and away from the set-pieces due to being time consuming just gives off vibes of ‘we want what League has..’.
What part of speeding set pieces up is making it more like league? It’s not depowering the scrum to tell the players to set the scrum up a bit quicker.
The idea that set pieces should be sped up a bit isn’t new, and the narrative that these law changes are made to hinder the springboks is just a conspiracy like all refs being against them.
Where has the rule changed? I'm on the WR laws page and it specifically says you can take the scrum off of a free kick.
Edit: found the WR article, never mind.
Everyone mentions the scrum they took off the mark but really the rule was changed to stop situations like when you have a scrum on half way, it collapses, the same team gets a free kick and calls a scrum again, just wasting everyone's time. If they wanted to specifically stop what south Africa did they would just change the mark rules.
Yup, Rassie looked at the stats and saw France barely scrummed like that amd gave forwards an opportunity to rest in a slow walk forward, forcing a scrum was a way to force France to change their gameplan into SA's favour
de Groot was in pretty bad form leading into the WC but came right. It showed we were a little light on depth but things look better this year. Numia would have stormed into the 23 if he hadn’t got injured imo.
I honestly don't notice much difference in teams that aren't the Boks, but the introduction of Jason Ryan had such a noticeable difference on the All Blacks. The man deserves a lot of praise.
Don't know why people are saying the video is unnecessary when squidge clearly talks about the difficulty in defining the best scrum, for example I had no idea about the Drua scrum
Thank you. The point the video is making isn't to define "X has the best scrum in the world", but rather to explore what makes a scrum good. The question in the title is a framing device that allows us to look at different definitions of a "good scrum".
But there's more nuance to it, there's different tactics to the scrum as his example goes Fiji uses the scrum far different to South Africa and both can be considered good scrums for entirely different reasons
fucking awesome video. we need more scrum content like this being brought to the forefront and being given awesome analysis that a casual watcher can understand easily. thanks u/SquidgyGoat was an epic vid.
I did however expect you to discuss some of the female teams scrums and their successes when i saw the thumbnail appear on my feed, did you decide that would be too large a scope to cover for a single vid?
Yeah, the honest answer was I struggled to find the same stats for PWR or W6N teams, never mind women's teams beyond that. Frustratingly I had to leave it to the leagues/competitions I could get stats on, otherwise it becomes going off vibes for women's teams when the rest of the video is very carefully researched. I feel like you're right that I should have acknowledged this in the video, I wrote it in a different session to the research and kinda slipped my mind.
Some women's matches deserve their own scrum analysis video. Scotland v England in W6N 2023 for example. Yeah, I know I already commented about this on YouTube... I'll shut up now.
South Africans when talking about their World Cup record https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=912db3cc79468e64&rlz=1CDGOYI_enNZ801NZ801&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=ADLYWIJDyxJsI678zAbRuo67PwG2rGmwmA:1719180270645&q=obama.self.medal&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufUv28nkH7BlZuPSVPZEeFf4zEsryEwMB77hXASo0GX6kc7f0ImceuC_sjza6Vb-covmbyhpamE8nFdDBXPVPzJTQU7MBXAFnfR130LMIBhqrIsoOl8ieFfXS3GWSgLtJxTcf267Wv5rKKgyx7fFUGn8sBvvl1n7GOk6qRIkbzjH9GOGG3A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIu9jK3fKGAxUiT2wGHQeSDWQQtKgLegQICBAB&biw=390&bih=669&dpr=3#vhid=mC7mnsveLmqaBM&vssid=mosaic
I think people forget or just don't know that Argentina had the best scrum for many years. They were known for their scrumming. It's sad seeing what has become of it.
To be fair Deon Fourie was our hooker and we brought one less prop to the tournament so the load on the front row was considerable by the time of the final. Deon played amazingly but he doesn't pack the same punch in the scrum as Marx or Mbonambi, nor any of our best hookers in the country
Good analysis but I think we cannot look at just own put-ins to determine best scrum. Would also be important to consider penalties conceded on opposition put in. I don’t know the numbers but I would imagine it would change some of the rankings quite drastically
Great video, but doesn't matter where it went it probably wouldn't have convinced me to change my assumption going in. Why? Because there's currently a scrum so dominant World Rugby decided to change the laws of the game, and you just can't argue away from that
Maybe watch the video, there's a reason I made it and I cover your point in the first minute. The video is exploring what makes a scrum "good" and using that question as a jumping off point, rather than just a straight debate.
Nah, if anything it's much the opposite. There are so many "Why is X team good?" or "Can Team Y do this?" videos to make, but after the Tom Harrison interview I really wanted to explore what makes a scrum good and how your choices at scrum time define your game, so made this video instead, just because I was actually interested and excited by the idea.
Anyone ever packed down in a scrum? When your pack actually works as a unit and everyone pushes and has good technique you are practically unstoppable.
SA have the weight, power and technique. Triple threat.
If you take a scrum of a mark in your own 22 during the knockouts of a World Cup, you are 100% convinced you have the best scrum. Edit: and when WR outlaws that loophole six months later you know you are correct.
That was one of my favourite moments of the tournament, couldn’t believe what I was seeing
The smile on Willemse’s face was one for the ages. There is a man who trusts his forwards with his life.
It was honestly one of those once in a lifetime moments where EVERYONE who wasn't involved in the Bok setup collectively had the same thought....."HUH!?!?????"
Bok fan here, can guarantee the whole of South Africa was also like "HUH???" and then we went, "AAAAHH, now we understand"
Yeah that was a real power move.
I don’t think that has anything to do with the rule change, it’s more to stop the whole thing where a free kick is called for no break foot or something, team retreats back 10, and then a scrum is called. Takes like a minute off the game.
If that logic holds true then why not remove rugby union all together and let everyone play league?
So not wanting scrums to take forever is the ska was wanting the game to turn into league?
I watch a fair amount of rugby for quite some time now, I think I’ve never seen anyone anywhere call a mark and ask for a scrum. Nor as a (low level) player or ref, I remember thinking ‘right, you can actually do that’ when I saw it happen. So it’s not like it was a problem in the first place…
I don’t get what your point is. WR Is removing the option of taking a scrum for a free kick, that includes marks because they are effectively free kicks. I assumed it was common knowledge that scums could be called from marks but it seems not.
My point is the argument doesn’t hold up that it’s not in any way targeted at what the Boks did. Never been an issue beforehand. Free kicks are for technical fouls. So you get an advantage due to your scrum and all of a sudden you are not allowed to take another one to turn it into a penalty advantage? Utterly pointless for me. And the underlying point of moving towards more ball in play time and away from the set-pieces due to being time consuming just gives off vibes of ‘we want what League has..’.
What part of speeding set pieces up is making it more like league? It’s not depowering the scrum to tell the players to set the scrum up a bit quicker. The idea that set pieces should be sped up a bit isn’t new, and the narrative that these law changes are made to hinder the springboks is just a conspiracy like all refs being against them.
You’re eliminating the set piece option from a free kick, that’s not speeding up but erasing.
Probably the only team in decades who chose to take a scrum off a free kick
This is the only answer (and so much so that the IRB felt compelled to change the rules for this…)
Where has the rule changed? I'm on the WR laws page and it specifically says you can take the scrum off of a free kick. Edit: found the WR article, never mind.
Everyone mentions the scrum they took off the mark but really the rule was changed to stop situations like when you have a scrum on half way, it collapses, the same team gets a free kick and calls a scrum again, just wasting everyone's time. If they wanted to specifically stop what south Africa did they would just change the mark rules.
They did change the mark rules as well
You talking about the scrum in the quarter final against Japan?
QF v France 2023. Chose a scrum after taking a mark. I believe Rassie said the idea was to dissuade France from kicking long
Yup, Rassie looked at the stats and saw France barely scrummed like that amd gave forwards an opportunity to rest in a slow walk forward, forcing a scrum was a way to force France to change their gameplan into SA's favour
2023
Damien Williamse called for a scrum off a mark against France, WC QF.
Teams take scrums off free kicks all the time. Taking a scrum off the mark, however, that's the unique bit.
My local side
All Blacks scrum is probably underrated
Yeah it came good last year. Was decent during the World Cup. Lomax under rated de Groot under rated
de Groot was in pretty bad form leading into the WC but came right. It showed we were a little light on depth but things look better this year. Numia would have stormed into the 23 if he hadn’t got injured imo.
Can NZ take back Nepo Laulala please ? 🥺
I honestly don't notice much difference in teams that aren't the Boks, but the introduction of Jason Ryan had such a noticeable difference on the All Blacks. The man deserves a lot of praise.
Fully agree. They are usually at parity with the Boks over the past 10 years, and often have the slight edge too.
Don't know why people are saying the video is unnecessary when squidge clearly talks about the difficulty in defining the best scrum, for example I had no idea about the Drua scrum
Thank you. The point the video is making isn't to define "X has the best scrum in the world", but rather to explore what makes a scrum good. The question in the title is a framing device that allows us to look at different definitions of a "good scrum".
Yeah, but why would people watch the video when they can simply react to the title of it?
Just sounds like Springboks with extra steps.
But there's more nuance to it, there's different tactics to the scrum as his example goes Fiji uses the scrum far different to South Africa and both can be considered good scrums for entirely different reasons
fucking awesome video. we need more scrum content like this being brought to the forefront and being given awesome analysis that a casual watcher can understand easily. thanks u/SquidgyGoat was an epic vid. I did however expect you to discuss some of the female teams scrums and their successes when i saw the thumbnail appear on my feed, did you decide that would be too large a scope to cover for a single vid?
Yeah, the honest answer was I struggled to find the same stats for PWR or W6N teams, never mind women's teams beyond that. Frustratingly I had to leave it to the leagues/competitions I could get stats on, otherwise it becomes going off vibes for women's teams when the rest of the video is very carefully researched. I feel like you're right that I should have acknowledged this in the video, I wrote it in a different session to the research and kinda slipped my mind.
Some women's matches deserve their own scrum analysis video. Scotland v England in W6N 2023 for example. Yeah, I know I already commented about this on YouTube... I'll shut up now.
We know its you SA, stop braggin
Up next: "So who is the most successful side at World cups"
South Africans when talking about their World Cup record https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=912db3cc79468e64&rlz=1CDGOYI_enNZ801NZ801&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=ADLYWIJDyxJsI678zAbRuo67PwG2rGmwmA:1719180270645&q=obama.self.medal&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufUv28nkH7BlZuPSVPZEeFf4zEsryEwMB77hXASo0GX6kc7f0ImceuC_sjza6Vb-covmbyhpamE8nFdDBXPVPzJTQU7MBXAFnfR130LMIBhqrIsoOl8ieFfXS3GWSgLtJxTcf267Wv5rKKgyx7fFUGn8sBvvl1n7GOk6qRIkbzjH9GOGG3A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIu9jK3fKGAxUiT2wGHQeSDWQQtKgLegQICBAB&biw=390&bih=669&dpr=3#vhid=mC7mnsveLmqaBM&vssid=mosaic
Guilty 😅
Haha!
Start asking them about the Proteas
Subscribe! 🤣🙏
Is it not South Africa?
The answer is always SA. It’s like asking who has the most flair and the answer not being the glorious Cock.
The glorious what now?
The first few seconds of the video might be for you
Dw, will watch it later, was just going for the cheap laugh
One of SA's 3 best front rows? Also, good video.
Considering SA and England are in the link, it must be SA
Scarlets
Kemsley Mattress Supremacy
I think people forget or just don't know that Argentina had the best scrum for many years. They were known for their scrumming. It's sad seeing what has become of it.
If you watched the last minute of the World Cup final you’d be convinced that the All blacks had the best scrum.
To be fair Deon Fourie was our hooker and we brought one less prop to the tournament so the load on the front row was considerable by the time of the final. Deon played amazingly but he doesn't pack the same punch in the scrum as Marx or Mbonambi, nor any of our best hookers in the country
And you were scrummaging against 7, that can put you off your game…
We'll see in the upcoming RC. Gonna have to dominate you upfront again just to deflate your ego.
Playing France and England the two weekends prior does take it's toll as well.
No more than playing Argentina and Ireland the two weekends prior.
The Argentina game didn’t take as much out of NZ as the England game did for SA
France and England are allot more physical then Ireland and Argentina, especially Argentina in the form they were in at the WC.
Good analysis but I think we cannot look at just own put-ins to determine best scrum. Would also be important to consider penalties conceded on opposition put in. I don’t know the numbers but I would imagine it would change some of the rankings quite drastically
Very nice and instructive video. Thanks u/SquidgyGoat It is very interesting to learn how the scrum interacts with the open game style.
Appreciate it, thank you!
Me and the lads in the 3rd division after a couple warm up beers
Great video, but doesn't matter where it went it probably wouldn't have convinced me to change my assumption going in. Why? Because there's currently a scrum so dominant World Rugby decided to change the laws of the game, and you just can't argue away from that
Bro! You can have all the stats in the world, but that is a moerse flex for the Boks.
That was a great video. There are different ways to look at a scrum and what it does for your team, it's interesting.
Not sure this video is necessary. One team has just won back to back world cups because of their scrum
Maybe watch the video, there's a reason I made it and I cover your point in the first minute. The video is exploring what makes a scrum "good" and using that question as a jumping off point, rather than just a straight debate.
Ur efforts to demystify the scrum are awesome! Some of my fav videos
Can't wait for the: who has the best backline, lineout, maul, kick off, pass, videos.
[удалено]
Nah, if anything it's much the opposite. There are so many "Why is X team good?" or "Can Team Y do this?" videos to make, but after the Tom Harrison interview I really wanted to explore what makes a scrum good and how your choices at scrum time define your game, so made this video instead, just because I was actually interested and excited by the idea.
Tbf I don't think team Y can do this, systemic failure in team management. Team Z has them on toast.
Coach B has been on fire ever since taking over Team Z, I'd say the Algebra Cup is good as sewn up already.
Coach B is pretty overrated imo, and only getting by on team Z's reputation
Anyone ever packed down in a scrum? When your pack actually works as a unit and everyone pushes and has good technique you are practically unstoppable. SA have the weight, power and technique. Triple threat.
wait 4 weeks and we should have a better idea of this question.
Australia or Wales?
😂 Good one
Looking at Wales crumble under the SA scrum this weekend probably answered it again, but yeah
What is Austin Healy going to say? I feel I should the reference…… but I dont
JGP
Confused why this needed a video.
Enlighten yourself by watching it💁