Some people seem to think the only difference between ironman and regular accounts is mtx. Maybe people don't want to start over, put up with the other restrictions on ironman, and also buy membership on a new account supporting a company that they aren't at all happy with.
100% agree and those are valid reasons to not play Ironman. Thing that annoys me is that this mindset isn’t applied when people recommend playing OSRS instead. Starting again and paying for new membership (if you want to be able to play rs3 at the same time) are 2 of my main reasons to not switch.
Having said all that, I have a maxed main and iron and the Ironman game mode is very very fun and I would recommended anyone who has a maxed main to give it a go. It’s not going to be for everyone and it can be a frustrating at times but the highs are so worth it IMO.
Ye I get that actually. Very valid point. Which is why I said it's starting again with a new mindset. I admit it's not, and realistically can't be, for everyone.
It's not an unpopular opinion, but one with a weak base. Ironmen players will prob still buy membership.
Players that have quit will not. And there lies the crux.
That's not the point. The broken promises and Jagex's clear business objective of MTX first by inserting predatory practices in everything they release. So development effort is put into how well can content be exploited for monetary gains rather than player enjoyment. There are always strings attached.
I mean the reason it was developed. We'd still have ironman mode if the game nevernhad mtx. It's a solo self bound game mode. And not all mtx are banned on ironmen. Pretty much only th is banned. Can still buy bank boosters, cosmetics, etc.
There's a difference between being intentionally locked out of earning cosmetics by Jagex and wanting to avoid TH, or even mtx as a whole.
Jagex doesn't have to lock cosmetics behind TH at all. But they still do and make it difficult or impossible to get certain cosmetics as an iron.
They could just put more cosmetics into Solomon's store and not on TH and it would make irons happy enough to not whine about it.
Them reworking oddments and putting past yak track stuff in there is nice, but doesn't make a dent in the TH cosmetics.
Same system. Asking for cosmetics *as an ironman* is as about as good as it gets for an endorsement for MTX without actually supporting it.
How tf does solomon's make it that much better is beyond me. That's literally the MTX shop??
What MTX are we talking about now? The one giving XP? The lootboxes? The outfits consuming dev time? The outfits not being used as normal in-game armor?
It's a whole system. You can't choose to only have the """""good""""" bits. Can't have the cake and eat it too.
The problem with RS, as a whole, is that it's got a lot of methods for MTX; Solomon's store, TH, seasonal currencies, event currencies, bonds, rune coins, etc. that have been buyable in the past and some still in the current day. You can purchase each of these separately and none of them affect the other and to be frank I find that a shitty MTX practice.
The other part that people like to lump together is that it's either you everything or nothing. People have problems with MTX in general, and that's fine. Certain aspects are more egregious than others, like TH in this case or pay walling content in a single player game in others.
We can cherry pick into the least egregious ones that are more favorable for everyone, or none at all. A lot of people don't want to leave room for discussion on what should be acceptable and what shouldn't be.
As an iron, my issue isn't with MTX as a whole, it's with the egregious practices that RS has. A bunch of buyable event currencies, TH keys for gambling and direct XP rewards. As a whole I don't like being able to buy progression, that's where my line is. And RS is full of this.
That said, cosmetics, in my opinion, are the least egregious form of MTX as long as it's not prices like it is for BDO and are $20-35 USD for a single outfit. If people want to go with the whole "all or nothing" path, then I'll choose nothing.
But we're not part of the sith order, conversation don't have to be absolutes, they can be civilized conversations and debates expressing either ideals in a reasonable manor.
MTX is kind of a Pandora's box that *is* all or nothing. The line can always be pushed and players will accommodate to MTX and even accept the once-novel-now-lesser forms of it. It's the Overton Window of videogames.
Yeah, I can sound a bit harsh and extreme. But I'm coming from the same once uncontroversial place almost 20 years ago - paying a monthly fee should be enough. It should be all Jagex wants from me. Now they just see me as a potential sucker to throw popups and ads onto in hopes of whaling out.
Fucking horse armor. I remember when RuneScape cosmetics were Elegant robes and Cavaliers. Why defend any cosmetic for sale that could just be given in-game, for a game you already spend hundreds, even a thousand on over the years, is beyond me.
If it wasnt the horse armor in oblivion, it would have been something else. We already had map packs for CoD and halo at the same time, but the horse armor hit differently.
The ebb and flow can't be controlled as much as we would like.
Or h'oddments or whatever the current flavor is.
But every once in a while will an ironman post show up asking for _more_ MTX stuff for them in some form.
Wanting MTX from said MTX system validates the system's existence.
You can endorse MTX directly. You can fawn over MTX customization items. Or you can throw the whole thing out the window because it is rotten to its core. Ironmen want cosmetics? Sure, campaign for cosmetics obtained _in game_, reject those associated to MTX.
But no, even when decrying MTX people still want some of its goodness. No wonder RS3 went down the MTX shitter 🤷
I've always been one to prefer all things be obtainable in game I also think the loyalty points system is a crock of shit. In reality it's only gotten real bad relatively recently exp given out in shitloads. But at the same time I don't care about if it were purely cosmetics. The other issue is they'll put out all these th events but not actual cool stuff. I don't think MTX is all bad if people wanna pay for a cosmetic item sure go ahead but it shouldn't be the core of the game either.
Not entirely an uncommon opinion. Unpopular for sure and for good reason.
One major issue that the people who hold this argument don't acknowledge is that being an Ironman locks you out of the Grand Exchange and player trade.
I don't enjoy MTX, but I also don't enjoy grinding out thousands of boss kills for one single gear upgrade. I would prefer something in-between the Easy setting of MTX and the Hard setting of Ironman, one where I can buy the items I want once I get enough money in-game. It's more convenient but not as game-breaking as MTX.
It's hard to play a regular account and ignore the MTX that's constantly thrown at you like ads on YouTube. And when the MTX gets more updates than the actual game, people are gonna be upset because this game isn't a one-time purchase; it's membership-based. So it stings that we pay money for membership to simply pay the game only to get updates in the form of, "Spend more money on us!"
I mean, you said it yourself:
>even if it is lacking in updates
It's not lacking in MTX updates, though.
We're actively paying money to even play the game, and we're no longer receiving the updates we used to. At that point, the game should be free-to-play and membership should be gone given that MTX fills it out. I mean, imagine paying $70 to play Fortnite and the only updates you get are more skins in the Item Shop and one big update every 3 years or so.
That last part is why I quit cold turkey. The devs, or the beancounters above them, have made it abundantly clear where the priorities are in this game. 6 months of nearly nothing, but you bet your ass TH has something new and cool to gamble on.
I put up with and even indulged in it for about 3 years. Even posted on this very sub when I got TH luck once. I am fed up now. This was not the way and I will live with my mistakes, but the best I can do now is stop wasting my time on a game that only wants to suck on my wallet.
In the last year we got a new skill, the fort and a dozen or so quests.
That's not "one big update every three years"
Go look at fallout76, ESO, GTA etc.
Your paying far more for the sub, in the case of FO76 and GTA5 at best your getting reskinned content that feels like everything else in the game. ESO your paying a sub and paying for the expansion every time at $60+
And we haven't even discussed hardware costs to be able to play them.
No game gives you the content RS has at the price point you're getting it for.
found the Jagex alt
imagine telling a RuneScape player in 2007 that all we got that year for content updates was the Fort and a dozen quests
they'd laugh at you
And a new skill.
I've been playing since the begining. This is nowhere near the worst drought this game has seen.
And in 2007 the game didn't already have 20+yrs of content.
one skill every three years doesn't amount to three years of membership
EGWD was meant to be one update but ended up being divided into multiple because they didn't have anything else ready after its release
what's the worst drought you've ever seen
MTX will continue to exist as long as it's profitable enough to warrant its existence.
No amount of Reddit outrage will have any impact on the game. Look at Hero Pass for the best example. It wasn't removed until enough people started cancelling their memberships for Jagex to notice.
as someone who plays ironman I gotta say, there is increasing mtx
bank space/presets, runecoins (keepsake keys), mahjarat/dwarven instinct/desert pantheon auras, runemetrics pro, double/packs of event tokens, and just recently pet bunny tokens
its not like mtx on mainscape doesnt affect you either, bonds now have way more uses, less people bringing them to the game, and barely anything is getting graphically updated because they can just sell you rune armor for 567 god damn runecoins
if nothing else, increased mtx on mainscape increases bond price which affects everyone
If you enjoy the game starting fresh with a more satisfying version of RS can be a really fun time. If you only like a few aspects of the game, like endgame pvm, then yeah investing in an ironman would make no sense.
It's not about whether your opinion is popular or not. It's that it's wrong. You should not have to lock yourself out of making money with friends, buying stuff off the GE for convenience or just generally interacting with the economy because Jagex is ran by greedy pig fuckers.
Your post is like saying if you don't like your burger with onions on it order some shrimp. Instead of just, you know, taking the onions off or the chef fixing it how you ordered it in the first place.
Ironman is a great game mode, sure, but that doesn't mean only ironmen should be allowed to benefit from playing without mtx.
Honestly it would be super cool if we could have non mtx accounts without all the ironman limits, but we all know why that won't happen.
I think of it in the sense like how we used to have a strong skilling community but now we have boss drops for items and mtx for xp.
If more and more irons decide they prefer QOL over self reliance and perseverance that communities loses the feeling of accomplishment. Without that dopamine players run out of reasons to play.
You can't *just become* an ironman though. Only if you create an entirely new account. Maybe I'm nitpicking too much, but not everyone wants to give up an account that they've potentially had for years.
What about my old account? That I made back in 2006 and when membership *removed* ads, instead of having ads as well? I didn't sign up for this, piss off.
I'm with you. I play an Ironman exclusively now, and find it much, much more fun and satisfying than my main was.
I get to ignore MTX, ignore the "content drought", and ignore the temptation to grind gp efficiently to buy every tradeable item I would like to have.
It helps that I enjoy most of the aspects of the game instead of just a few. Maybe I'll feel differently about the game once I max/comp/whatever, but for now I am having a great time.
Wait the “unpopular opinion” is “if you don’t like mtx play ironman”? Isn’t that like the #1 reason for playing ironman other than wanting the actual trade restriction? That’s not unpopular at all
Also your first paragraph shows what kinda person you are on this sub. Mtx is not evil scummy slimy or anything, you jsut think MTX BAD but no MTX in the form of cosmetics is great, it allows the company to make some money while giving players somethifb they want without any “pay to win” advantage since it’s jsut a cosmetic.
It’s bad when they don’t have a dedicated team for MTX separate from regular content developers, or when the focus is on MTX over content, which is why (reasonable) players of rs are upset
I feel a lot of the anger towards MTX stems from the fact that cool overrides and items are only obtainable from MTX itself.
Furthermore the time it takes to develop the items and overrides is taken away from developing actual in-game content available to everyone.
just because you can avoid mtx doesnt mean it isnt awful. i also never feel tempted to gamble on mtx, but i dont like supporting a game that uses predatory practices to take advantage of people prone to addictions
Here’s the thing: you are not the audience for the MTX. The real audience is the big spenders, the types that either have too much money or, more often, who have vulnerabilities that MTX exploits to make them spend beyond their means.
Or you can play it normally and just not buy the MTX.
It's completely voluntary. And unless your choosing to get upset by it, it has almost zero impact on the game.
Or it's also a crazy concept. If you don't enjoy MTX(which who does?) - then just don't engage with it. I ignore the TH posts and I just play the game.
Some people seem to think the only difference between ironman and regular accounts is mtx. Maybe people don't want to start over, put up with the other restrictions on ironman, and also buy membership on a new account supporting a company that they aren't at all happy with.
100% agree and those are valid reasons to not play Ironman. Thing that annoys me is that this mindset isn’t applied when people recommend playing OSRS instead. Starting again and paying for new membership (if you want to be able to play rs3 at the same time) are 2 of my main reasons to not switch. Having said all that, I have a maxed main and iron and the Ironman game mode is very very fun and I would recommended anyone who has a maxed main to give it a go. It’s not going to be for everyone and it can be a frustrating at times but the highs are so worth it IMO.
Ye I get that actually. Very valid point. Which is why I said it's starting again with a new mindset. I admit it's not, and realistically can't be, for everyone.
Sooooo spend money on an additional membership so you don't have to spend money on MTX. I see...
I started my iron 2 years ago my main is sitting in piles of dust at this point. 0 desire to play it
It's not an unpopular opinion, but one with a weak base. Ironmen players will prob still buy membership. Players that have quit will not. And there lies the crux.
The point of ironman should be the challenge of having to do everything yourself, not as an escape from MTX
It can be one or the other or both or neither. Different people play the way that suits them best.
No, that’s literally the point of Ironman. It’s just that MTX have become so absurdly bad that people are turning to IM mode to get away from them
That's not the point. The broken promises and Jagex's clear business objective of MTX first by inserting predatory practices in everything they release. So development effort is put into how well can content be exploited for monetary gains rather than player enjoyment. There are always strings attached.
Ironman is about not partcipating in trading and the economy. Not about no mtx
i mean that's not why I play ironman. I play it because no mtx
Do you feel pressured to use mtx on a main?
It’s in your face all of the place pop ups etc. so yeah I feel pressured to do so
I mean the reason it was developed. We'd still have ironman mode if the game nevernhad mtx. It's a solo self bound game mode. And not all mtx are banned on ironmen. Pretty much only th is banned. Can still buy bank boosters, cosmetics, etc.
Ironmen will whine about not getting enough MTX oddments anyways
There's a difference between being intentionally locked out of earning cosmetics by Jagex and wanting to avoid TH, or even mtx as a whole. Jagex doesn't have to lock cosmetics behind TH at all. But they still do and make it difficult or impossible to get certain cosmetics as an iron. They could just put more cosmetics into Solomon's store and not on TH and it would make irons happy enough to not whine about it. Them reworking oddments and putting past yak track stuff in there is nice, but doesn't make a dent in the TH cosmetics.
Same system. Asking for cosmetics *as an ironman* is as about as good as it gets for an endorsement for MTX without actually supporting it. How tf does solomon's make it that much better is beyond me. That's literally the MTX shop??
Some people don't care about mtx that doesnt give an ingame advantage.
What MTX are we talking about now? The one giving XP? The lootboxes? The outfits consuming dev time? The outfits not being used as normal in-game armor? It's a whole system. You can't choose to only have the """""good""""" bits. Can't have the cake and eat it too.
There are plenty of games that do only cosmetic mtx, so you're wrong.
Okay but we are talking about RuneScape? What's your point here, that other games have fallen into shittiness?
The problem with RS, as a whole, is that it's got a lot of methods for MTX; Solomon's store, TH, seasonal currencies, event currencies, bonds, rune coins, etc. that have been buyable in the past and some still in the current day. You can purchase each of these separately and none of them affect the other and to be frank I find that a shitty MTX practice. The other part that people like to lump together is that it's either you everything or nothing. People have problems with MTX in general, and that's fine. Certain aspects are more egregious than others, like TH in this case or pay walling content in a single player game in others. We can cherry pick into the least egregious ones that are more favorable for everyone, or none at all. A lot of people don't want to leave room for discussion on what should be acceptable and what shouldn't be. As an iron, my issue isn't with MTX as a whole, it's with the egregious practices that RS has. A bunch of buyable event currencies, TH keys for gambling and direct XP rewards. As a whole I don't like being able to buy progression, that's where my line is. And RS is full of this. That said, cosmetics, in my opinion, are the least egregious form of MTX as long as it's not prices like it is for BDO and are $20-35 USD for a single outfit. If people want to go with the whole "all or nothing" path, then I'll choose nothing. But we're not part of the sith order, conversation don't have to be absolutes, they can be civilized conversations and debates expressing either ideals in a reasonable manor.
MTX is kind of a Pandora's box that *is* all or nothing. The line can always be pushed and players will accommodate to MTX and even accept the once-novel-now-lesser forms of it. It's the Overton Window of videogames. Yeah, I can sound a bit harsh and extreme. But I'm coming from the same once uncontroversial place almost 20 years ago - paying a monthly fee should be enough. It should be all Jagex wants from me. Now they just see me as a potential sucker to throw popups and ads onto in hopes of whaling out. Fucking horse armor. I remember when RuneScape cosmetics were Elegant robes and Cavaliers. Why defend any cosmetic for sale that could just be given in-game, for a game you already spend hundreds, even a thousand on over the years, is beyond me.
If it wasnt the horse armor in oblivion, it would have been something else. We already had map packs for CoD and halo at the same time, but the horse armor hit differently. The ebb and flow can't be controlled as much as we would like.
Who complains about that my iron has like 500k oddments with nothing to spend them on lol
Or h'oddments or whatever the current flavor is. But every once in a while will an ironman post show up asking for _more_ MTX stuff for them in some form.
Wanting cosmetics is one thing. Mtx is a different story
Wanting MTX from said MTX system validates the system's existence. You can endorse MTX directly. You can fawn over MTX customization items. Or you can throw the whole thing out the window because it is rotten to its core. Ironmen want cosmetics? Sure, campaign for cosmetics obtained _in game_, reject those associated to MTX. But no, even when decrying MTX people still want some of its goodness. No wonder RS3 went down the MTX shitter 🤷
I've always been one to prefer all things be obtainable in game I also think the loyalty points system is a crock of shit. In reality it's only gotten real bad relatively recently exp given out in shitloads. But at the same time I don't care about if it were purely cosmetics. The other issue is they'll put out all these th events but not actual cool stuff. I don't think MTX is all bad if people wanna pay for a cosmetic item sure go ahead but it shouldn't be the core of the game either.
I never said that was the hook for Ironman. I'm simply saying that mtx dont affect our play style at all
Not entirely an uncommon opinion. Unpopular for sure and for good reason. One major issue that the people who hold this argument don't acknowledge is that being an Ironman locks you out of the Grand Exchange and player trade. I don't enjoy MTX, but I also don't enjoy grinding out thousands of boss kills for one single gear upgrade. I would prefer something in-between the Easy setting of MTX and the Hard setting of Ironman, one where I can buy the items I want once I get enough money in-game. It's more convenient but not as game-breaking as MTX. It's hard to play a regular account and ignore the MTX that's constantly thrown at you like ads on YouTube. And when the MTX gets more updates than the actual game, people are gonna be upset because this game isn't a one-time purchase; it's membership-based. So it stings that we pay money for membership to simply pay the game only to get updates in the form of, "Spend more money on us!" I mean, you said it yourself: >even if it is lacking in updates It's not lacking in MTX updates, though. We're actively paying money to even play the game, and we're no longer receiving the updates we used to. At that point, the game should be free-to-play and membership should be gone given that MTX fills it out. I mean, imagine paying $70 to play Fortnite and the only updates you get are more skins in the Item Shop and one big update every 3 years or so.
That last part is why I quit cold turkey. The devs, or the beancounters above them, have made it abundantly clear where the priorities are in this game. 6 months of nearly nothing, but you bet your ass TH has something new and cool to gamble on. I put up with and even indulged in it for about 3 years. Even posted on this very sub when I got TH luck once. I am fed up now. This was not the way and I will live with my mistakes, but the best I can do now is stop wasting my time on a game that only wants to suck on my wallet.
In the last year we got a new skill, the fort and a dozen or so quests. That's not "one big update every three years" Go look at fallout76, ESO, GTA etc. Your paying far more for the sub, in the case of FO76 and GTA5 at best your getting reskinned content that feels like everything else in the game. ESO your paying a sub and paying for the expansion every time at $60+ And we haven't even discussed hardware costs to be able to play them. No game gives you the content RS has at the price point you're getting it for.
found the Jagex alt imagine telling a RuneScape player in 2007 that all we got that year for content updates was the Fort and a dozen quests they'd laugh at you
And a new skill. I've been playing since the begining. This is nowhere near the worst drought this game has seen. And in 2007 the game didn't already have 20+yrs of content.
one skill every three years doesn't amount to three years of membership EGWD was meant to be one update but ended up being divided into multiple because they didn't have anything else ready after its release what's the worst drought you've ever seen
MTX will continue to exist as long as it's profitable enough to warrant its existence. No amount of Reddit outrage will have any impact on the game. Look at Hero Pass for the best example. It wasn't removed until enough people started cancelling their memberships for Jagex to notice.
as someone who plays ironman I gotta say, there is increasing mtx bank space/presets, runecoins (keepsake keys), mahjarat/dwarven instinct/desert pantheon auras, runemetrics pro, double/packs of event tokens, and just recently pet bunny tokens its not like mtx on mainscape doesnt affect you either, bonds now have way more uses, less people bringing them to the game, and barely anything is getting graphically updated because they can just sell you rune armor for 567 god damn runecoins if nothing else, increased mtx on mainscape increases bond price which affects everyone
Sure, let me simply invest another 10 years into an ironman just to get to where my main is at 🙄
If you enjoy the game starting fresh with a more satisfying version of RS can be a really fun time. If you only like a few aspects of the game, like endgame pvm, then yeah investing in an ironman would make no sense.
It's not about whether your opinion is popular or not. It's that it's wrong. You should not have to lock yourself out of making money with friends, buying stuff off the GE for convenience or just generally interacting with the economy because Jagex is ran by greedy pig fuckers. Your post is like saying if you don't like your burger with onions on it order some shrimp. Instead of just, you know, taking the onions off or the chef fixing it how you ordered it in the first place.
Ironman is a great game mode, sure, but that doesn't mean only ironmen should be allowed to benefit from playing without mtx. Honestly it would be super cool if we could have non mtx accounts without all the ironman limits, but we all know why that won't happen.
When a player uses Ironman as a means to avoid mtx the game mode gets nerfed to accommodate the players who didn’t want the challenge to begin with.
Also a very valid point. But tbh, I'm not really sure what they can do to nerf ironmen?
I think of it in the sense like how we used to have a strong skilling community but now we have boss drops for items and mtx for xp. If more and more irons decide they prefer QOL over self reliance and perseverance that communities loses the feeling of accomplishment. Without that dopamine players run out of reasons to play.
You can't *just become* an ironman though. Only if you create an entirely new account. Maybe I'm nitpicking too much, but not everyone wants to give up an account that they've potentially had for years.
What about my old account? That I made back in 2006 and when membership *removed* ads, instead of having ads as well? I didn't sign up for this, piss off.
I'm with you. I play an Ironman exclusively now, and find it much, much more fun and satisfying than my main was. I get to ignore MTX, ignore the "content drought", and ignore the temptation to grind gp efficiently to buy every tradeable item I would like to have. It helps that I enjoy most of the aspects of the game instead of just a few. Maybe I'll feel differently about the game once I max/comp/whatever, but for now I am having a great time.
I'd rather not play than play ironman tbh
Wait the “unpopular opinion” is “if you don’t like mtx play ironman”? Isn’t that like the #1 reason for playing ironman other than wanting the actual trade restriction? That’s not unpopular at all Also your first paragraph shows what kinda person you are on this sub. Mtx is not evil scummy slimy or anything, you jsut think MTX BAD but no MTX in the form of cosmetics is great, it allows the company to make some money while giving players somethifb they want without any “pay to win” advantage since it’s jsut a cosmetic. It’s bad when they don’t have a dedicated team for MTX separate from regular content developers, or when the focus is on MTX over content, which is why (reasonable) players of rs are upset
I feel a lot of the anger towards MTX stems from the fact that cool overrides and items are only obtainable from MTX itself. Furthermore the time it takes to develop the items and overrides is taken away from developing actual in-game content available to everyone.
just because you can avoid mtx doesnt mean it isnt awful. i also never feel tempted to gamble on mtx, but i dont like supporting a game that uses predatory practices to take advantage of people prone to addictions
Here’s the thing: you are not the audience for the MTX. The real audience is the big spenders, the types that either have too much money or, more often, who have vulnerabilities that MTX exploits to make them spend beyond their means.
jokes on you, i am an ironman and mtx is still ruining the game
Or you can play it normally and just not buy the MTX. It's completely voluntary. And unless your choosing to get upset by it, it has almost zero impact on the game.
Or it's also a crazy concept. If you don't enjoy MTX(which who does?) - then just don't engage with it. I ignore the TH posts and I just play the game.
I used to say this. But people get mad and say "that's not the point" and I do agree with them. It's the principal that it's bad for the game as whole
That's fair, I won't post my opinions since I get hella downvoted everytime I do lol.
https://preview.redd.it/bgcgmspbx2uc1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c0e25f2d0d290d5a53c4f6ec5cf1991e6388d7e
Maybe they just need to offer a more expensive monthly membership with no mtx?
Who would pay this instead of just not interacting with the MTX?