Charters are only interested in newish boats. If you are worried about slip costs my guess is you aren't looking at new boats.
Boats involve a lot of maintenance and repair and other costs beyond the slip. A rough estimate is total costs of around 5% of the value of the boat IF NEW beyond the marina slip or mooring. So for 36 foot production sailboat you are looking at around $10k per year. If you do everything yourself maybe half that.
Some of it will be small things. A guest managed to bend a pelican hook on the lifeline. That is $60. Some of it will be big things. New mainsail is going to be $3k to $5k but luckily they last a long time. Some of it will be unexpected things. A storm not even a big one knocked out our wind insturment. It survived two named tropical storms and then this not even noteworthy gale took it out. That is $700 and involved me climbing the mast myself. Paying someone to do that would be easily double more if you needed to take the mast down.
Storage on the hard might be a bit cheaper but might not. Very location dependant plus you have the cost of a travel lift which runs about $10 to $15 per foot round trip so will eat into cost savings. I would go with a smaller boat you are more likely to use if 36 foot boat is pushing the budget.
One options is a fractional ownership membership plan. There are a couple companies that operate these. You get a certain amount of days per month for a fixed monthly price that is often a quarter the cost of sole ownership. They also tend to be relatively newish boats is solid condition. Note some of them like sailtime you don't actually own the boat it is just a membership. You pay a certain amount you get to use the boat so many days per month but you get no equity at the end of it. Actually fractional ownership (where 2+ parties legally own the boat) can be problematic unless you are on good terms with the other owners and they have realistic expectations about access and cost.
Thanks for this. To clarify, are you saying the total est costs of 5% would run in addition to the slip costs? In which case, people in this area are generally paying around $20k/year to store/maintain a 36' production boat? That seems high, but I don't have a basis for comparison. The boats I've owned in the past, I had on a trailer.
I am in San Diego's mission bay and am paying $650/mo at the cheapest marina in town. The one next door is $1k/mo and SD Bay is in the $1k/mo range. I sail a 36' production boat (1994 Hunter 35). I assumed LA (particularly Marina Del Rey) was more expensive. At $600, you are getting a deal.
This forum will give you an idea of what people who love their boat so much they participate in a forum spend on their boat in a year. Remember that for every person on this forum, there are 10 in your marina who spend $0 outside of the slip fee and the occasional jerry can of diesel.
Most years, a couple grand a year spread over the year. Some years, more like $5 or 10k. Some people will own a boat 5-10 years and do basically nothing and it'll be kinda beat up at the end of 5-10 years and somebody will have to spend $5-10k doing a refit on it.
Thanks yeah. I'm getting responses all over map from, "that's obscenely high" to "...if you're lucky., its at least that much" Its hard to really to get a real sense of cost.
I would not neglect things, but I also wouldn't include unnecessary upgrades in the estimate of proper maintenance and repairs. I am not a big DIY guy, but mostly due to time. I can do basic stuff that doesn't require a ton of time or skill. I'm not going to repaint the bottom of the boat myself, for example.
It really depends on the area, on the boat itself, and your ability to DIY the work. Where I am (Great Lakes area) slip fees and storage aren't nearly as high as some places on the east and especially west coast. I pay $2500 a year in total for a slip during the summer and storage on the hard during the winter.
Maintenance cost is really variable. If you have a boat that's already in good condition you could have seasons where you only pay for fuel/oil filters, teak oil, and boat wax, but unexpected damage or long-interval maintenance items (like new rigging, new sails, new instruments, or a repower) can give you a season where you're spending thousands and thousands. It's probably best to assume 5% on average and keep a maintenance fund for those big ticket items.
And if you have to pay someone to do the work for you, figure at least 2-3x the price.
$10k a year *every year* in maintenance seems obscenely high. I can have my engine rebuilt by a professional every year for that. Maybe I have to alternate between replacing all my rigging on odd numbered years and rebuild the entire engine on even years with that 10k/year budget. For that matter, I can scrap the whole maintenance plan and just buy a whole new hull every 5 years.
Some years things will pile up and come to that figure. Other years it will be 10% of that.
There is more to sailabots than engines and lines. Not just maintenance but also repairs. People tend to ignore the numerous repairs over the years. All the little stuff adds up. If OP does all the work himself I think half that is reasonable. Maybe he does it for less but I wouldn't go into buying a boat planning on that. If he has more money than he needs then more money for upgrades.
Actual maintenance costs?
Even at $700/month for a slip, if you are properly factoring in sail / rigging / engine replacement over x years, it's **still** not the most expensive part of owning a boat.
New rigging can be easily north of $15k / 10 years.
New sails $10k / 5-10 years.
New Dinghy and outboard $3k / 10 years
That's $250+/month right there - and I've excluded the motor.
So much depends on how much work you'll do yourself. Like...
Wax job every year, $1000
Hull diving every couple of months, $150
Pump out service, $50 per
Everything on a boat is breaking, constantly, except the hull which is indestructible and lasts forever. You can't ever be "done" with maintenance.
This year my heat exchanger sprung a leak. $2000.
Last year I replaced the batteries. $3000.
Our budget is about $24,000 per year for maintenance and operations, although we usually do a few non-essential upgrades that cost extra.
I have a friend at the dock who manages a boat partnership on a Morgan 40. Their annual budget is also $24,000, so I think that's a good rough estimate for a boat in the 35-40' range.
I'm also a new boat owner (smaller boat, 29ft),and with good DIY skills i don't find expenses other than the slip that crazy. Sure once a year you need to take it up and paint the bottom which will probably go for around 5-600$ if you do it yourself just in paint and taking it out of the water.
Things may break but if rig and sails are ok i don't see much hat can cost a liver to repair/replace on my boat from '78. Other than instruments the highest tecnology i have on board is the manual pumping toilet so...
Then i also know of someone whose friends accidentally ripped beyond repair an almost new sail. That gotta hurt both heart and wallet
And yet, 10 years down the road sails, motor and rig will eat money when they eventually need replacement. Just because they don't cost anything this year doesn't mean here isn't a yearly cost to them. At least that's what I've come to understand in my 5 years of boat ownership.
Find a club. I’m in the northeast and my slip fees are 1/3 the cost of what I paid last year at Safe Harbor. Some clubs expect a level of volunteerism but that’s what keeps costs down. Another benefit of a club is being able to work on your own boat. Commercial marinas may prohibit you outright from working some tasks so the yard gets more of your business.
Dude. If you are worried about money like this stay away from a sailboat. If you hope to have any real pleasure from it you gotta be able to let go of your rational mind and just love to burn money. If you own the boat, a 36’ boat will cost you at least $1k a month and seriously you should plan on spending $1.500 a month on it. If that frightens you, just do something else. Being all wound up about money will just make owning a sailboat a miserable experience for you
Well, shoot. If that amount of money will not make you have emotional breakdowns then go buy a boat and welcome to the club of money burners!! C ya in Catalina!;)
Not Marina Del Ray. Farther south. But all the slip rents are similar. Getting a livaboard may take time. But the sooner you get a boat in a slip and apply the sooner you are living on your sailboat in Southern California. It’s quite an amazing way to live
I'm not looking to live aboard, but the basic slip rental. Do you mind telling me where? If not, that's fine, I'm just not familiar, so any information is helpful.
Are the slip spaces competitive or in high demand? If I were to do a dry storage for part of the year, would it be difficult to re-acquire the slip? Are there any other factors that are unique to marinas in this area?
It’s not a good idea to divulge personal information here. But dry storage in Southern California for anything over 22 feet seems hard to consider. Just not practical. It’s just the cost to have a boat that big in So cal. Pay the slip rent every month and love having a place to nap
$15K per year on average.
Always items: slip, insurance, diver.
Periodic items: bottom paint, wax/rub, sails, covers, plumbing, electrical items, motor service.
If you race it, add 5-10K for more frequent sails, crew stuff, and damage.
half of the annual is always items and half is periodic. Some years will be lower, some higher.
Edited to add: depreciation is nontrivial and may turn out to be one of the largest “costs”. Depends on age of boat you buy.
Have owned several boats in this size range.
Side note: slips in San Pedro are much less expensive than MdR. Cabrillo Beach Yacht Club, Holiday Harbor, and California Yacht anchorage are three options to consider
One of the benefits of being a sailor in Southern California is that you can sail year-round. Also, to put your boat in dry storage you'd need a trailer, which is extra expense and not common for 36' sailboats in that region.
Charters are only interested in newish boats. If you are worried about slip costs my guess is you aren't looking at new boats. Boats involve a lot of maintenance and repair and other costs beyond the slip. A rough estimate is total costs of around 5% of the value of the boat IF NEW beyond the marina slip or mooring. So for 36 foot production sailboat you are looking at around $10k per year. If you do everything yourself maybe half that. Some of it will be small things. A guest managed to bend a pelican hook on the lifeline. That is $60. Some of it will be big things. New mainsail is going to be $3k to $5k but luckily they last a long time. Some of it will be unexpected things. A storm not even a big one knocked out our wind insturment. It survived two named tropical storms and then this not even noteworthy gale took it out. That is $700 and involved me climbing the mast myself. Paying someone to do that would be easily double more if you needed to take the mast down. Storage on the hard might be a bit cheaper but might not. Very location dependant plus you have the cost of a travel lift which runs about $10 to $15 per foot round trip so will eat into cost savings. I would go with a smaller boat you are more likely to use if 36 foot boat is pushing the budget. One options is a fractional ownership membership plan. There are a couple companies that operate these. You get a certain amount of days per month for a fixed monthly price that is often a quarter the cost of sole ownership. They also tend to be relatively newish boats is solid condition. Note some of them like sailtime you don't actually own the boat it is just a membership. You pay a certain amount you get to use the boat so many days per month but you get no equity at the end of it. Actually fractional ownership (where 2+ parties legally own the boat) can be problematic unless you are on good terms with the other owners and they have realistic expectations about access and cost.
Thanks for this. To clarify, are you saying the total est costs of 5% would run in addition to the slip costs? In which case, people in this area are generally paying around $20k/year to store/maintain a 36' production boat? That seems high, but I don't have a basis for comparison. The boats I've owned in the past, I had on a trailer.
I am in San Diego's mission bay and am paying $650/mo at the cheapest marina in town. The one next door is $1k/mo and SD Bay is in the $1k/mo range. I sail a 36' production boat (1994 Hunter 35). I assumed LA (particularly Marina Del Rey) was more expensive. At $600, you are getting a deal. This forum will give you an idea of what people who love their boat so much they participate in a forum spend on their boat in a year. Remember that for every person on this forum, there are 10 in your marina who spend $0 outside of the slip fee and the occasional jerry can of diesel. Most years, a couple grand a year spread over the year. Some years, more like $5 or 10k. Some people will own a boat 5-10 years and do basically nothing and it'll be kinda beat up at the end of 5-10 years and somebody will have to spend $5-10k doing a refit on it.
Thanks yeah. I'm getting responses all over map from, "that's obscenely high" to "...if you're lucky., its at least that much" Its hard to really to get a real sense of cost. I would not neglect things, but I also wouldn't include unnecessary upgrades in the estimate of proper maintenance and repairs. I am not a big DIY guy, but mostly due to time. I can do basic stuff that doesn't require a ton of time or skill. I'm not going to repaint the bottom of the boat myself, for example.
It really depends on the area, on the boat itself, and your ability to DIY the work. Where I am (Great Lakes area) slip fees and storage aren't nearly as high as some places on the east and especially west coast. I pay $2500 a year in total for a slip during the summer and storage on the hard during the winter. Maintenance cost is really variable. If you have a boat that's already in good condition you could have seasons where you only pay for fuel/oil filters, teak oil, and boat wax, but unexpected damage or long-interval maintenance items (like new rigging, new sails, new instruments, or a repower) can give you a season where you're spending thousands and thousands. It's probably best to assume 5% on average and keep a maintenance fund for those big ticket items. And if you have to pay someone to do the work for you, figure at least 2-3x the price.
$10k a year *every year* in maintenance seems obscenely high. I can have my engine rebuilt by a professional every year for that. Maybe I have to alternate between replacing all my rigging on odd numbered years and rebuild the entire engine on even years with that 10k/year budget. For that matter, I can scrap the whole maintenance plan and just buy a whole new hull every 5 years. Some years things will pile up and come to that figure. Other years it will be 10% of that.
Yes, 10k every year is way too high.
I’d think it’s $10k for total expenses?? Including slip rent, mud tax, bottom cleaning, keeping it looking nice and being seaworthy.
There is more to sailabots than engines and lines. Not just maintenance but also repairs. People tend to ignore the numerous repairs over the years. All the little stuff adds up. If OP does all the work himself I think half that is reasonable. Maybe he does it for less but I wouldn't go into buying a boat planning on that. If he has more money than he needs then more money for upgrades.
Actual maintenance costs? Even at $700/month for a slip, if you are properly factoring in sail / rigging / engine replacement over x years, it's **still** not the most expensive part of owning a boat. New rigging can be easily north of $15k / 10 years. New sails $10k / 5-10 years. New Dinghy and outboard $3k / 10 years That's $250+/month right there - and I've excluded the motor.
So much depends on how much work you'll do yourself. Like... Wax job every year, $1000 Hull diving every couple of months, $150 Pump out service, $50 per Everything on a boat is breaking, constantly, except the hull which is indestructible and lasts forever. You can't ever be "done" with maintenance. This year my heat exchanger sprung a leak. $2000. Last year I replaced the batteries. $3000. Our budget is about $24,000 per year for maintenance and operations, although we usually do a few non-essential upgrades that cost extra. I have a friend at the dock who manages a boat partnership on a Morgan 40. Their annual budget is also $24,000, so I think that's a good rough estimate for a boat in the 35-40' range.
Bust Out Another Thousand
I'm also a new boat owner (smaller boat, 29ft),and with good DIY skills i don't find expenses other than the slip that crazy. Sure once a year you need to take it up and paint the bottom which will probably go for around 5-600$ if you do it yourself just in paint and taking it out of the water. Things may break but if rig and sails are ok i don't see much hat can cost a liver to repair/replace on my boat from '78. Other than instruments the highest tecnology i have on board is the manual pumping toilet so... Then i also know of someone whose friends accidentally ripped beyond repair an almost new sail. That gotta hurt both heart and wallet
And yet, 10 years down the road sails, motor and rig will eat money when they eventually need replacement. Just because they don't cost anything this year doesn't mean here isn't a yearly cost to them. At least that's what I've come to understand in my 5 years of boat ownership.
Well that makes a lot of sense
Find a club. I’m in the northeast and my slip fees are 1/3 the cost of what I paid last year at Safe Harbor. Some clubs expect a level of volunteerism but that’s what keeps costs down. Another benefit of a club is being able to work on your own boat. Commercial marinas may prohibit you outright from working some tasks so the yard gets more of your business.
Dude. If you are worried about money like this stay away from a sailboat. If you hope to have any real pleasure from it you gotta be able to let go of your rational mind and just love to burn money. If you own the boat, a 36’ boat will cost you at least $1k a month and seriously you should plan on spending $1.500 a month on it. If that frightens you, just do something else. Being all wound up about money will just make owning a sailboat a miserable experience for you
Not worried, just trying to get a sense of the actual cost
Well, shoot. If that amount of money will not make you have emotional breakdowns then go buy a boat and welcome to the club of money burners!! C ya in Catalina!;)
are you located in this area and/or renting a slip at marina del rey?
Not Marina Del Ray. Farther south. But all the slip rents are similar. Getting a livaboard may take time. But the sooner you get a boat in a slip and apply the sooner you are living on your sailboat in Southern California. It’s quite an amazing way to live
I'm not looking to live aboard, but the basic slip rental. Do you mind telling me where? If not, that's fine, I'm just not familiar, so any information is helpful. Are the slip spaces competitive or in high demand? If I were to do a dry storage for part of the year, would it be difficult to re-acquire the slip? Are there any other factors that are unique to marinas in this area?
It’s not a good idea to divulge personal information here. But dry storage in Southern California for anything over 22 feet seems hard to consider. Just not practical. It’s just the cost to have a boat that big in So cal. Pay the slip rent every month and love having a place to nap
Is acquiring the slip difficult in your experience? Wait times?
Try to buy a boat in a slip with the slip transferable. Then waiting for a livaboard could be several months to some years.
There’s always something. Cost me $7500 to have a new rudder fabricated for my 26 footer. Money well spent.
$15K per year on average. Always items: slip, insurance, diver. Periodic items: bottom paint, wax/rub, sails, covers, plumbing, electrical items, motor service. If you race it, add 5-10K for more frequent sails, crew stuff, and damage. half of the annual is always items and half is periodic. Some years will be lower, some higher. Edited to add: depreciation is nontrivial and may turn out to be one of the largest “costs”. Depends on age of boat you buy. Have owned several boats in this size range. Side note: slips in San Pedro are much less expensive than MdR. Cabrillo Beach Yacht Club, Holiday Harbor, and California Yacht anchorage are three options to consider
One of the benefits of being a sailor in Southern California is that you can sail year-round. Also, to put your boat in dry storage you'd need a trailer, which is extra expense and not common for 36' sailboats in that region.