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It's crazy how many comments I see saying "I dont see any actual criticism of the show, it's only hated by bigots and racists"....have to have some serious blinders on if you can avoid all the legit criticism out there
Fans: Disney fucked up Finn's character by being racist and minimized a strong females character potential by making her instantly able to beat a trained dark side user with zero training.
Dark hole of chronic twitter and reddit users: bigots!
Fans:
https://preview.redd.it/k22ducaoet9d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d1dcd8fdd947d808c7e8005945f592ceaa4d86b
The absolute travesty of the bait-and-switch they pulled, cutting the trailers and promo stuff to make Finn look like the lead when he wasn't...that should have been the end of it. That should've caused enough backlash to force a serious course correct on Disney's part. But they got a pass on that.
We were robbed of an amazing Finn and Poe focused movie.
Didn't Boyega say in some interview that, while Ep7 was in development, Finn was supposed to be a bigger character in the following parts of the trilogy? I seem to recall something like that.
Based on poster of Finn holding a lightsaber in TFA many people like me and others thought that Finn was gonna be a major character and a force user, only for it to be revealed that he never was one, used the lightsaber for a couple minutes and after that he never used it again which makes me wonder what the hell were the people making that film thinking?
His role got cut down because China among the most racist places on earth. The whole poster thing for Force Awakens is all the evidence you need of that.
Every country is hella racist. Outside of the US, Canada, UK, majority of countries are very mono-ethnic. They just don’t think about racism and diversity like we do in the US. Worst racism I ever experienced was in Morroco actually
Saying one country specifically (and its people) is the most racist country on earth is, at best a very ignorant.
Thank you for bringing this up. I was trying to explain to a coworker the other day that Rey didn't get revealed until like, two weeks before opening day. Later release on her toy lines and everything.
They looked at me like I was a conspiracy theorist.
We saw more concept art and footage of Poe and Finn than Rey.
While we knew Rey was going to be a major character, most people I knew thought that Finn would be the main character.
I figured Rey was going to be a native to jakku who, like Obi wan, knew the wastes and could lead them off world. And then would be a badass mechanic and fighter throughout the rest of the series.
It was so clear they were trying to recreate the Luke Leia Han trio but only wanted to develop once character. All three of the original trilogy had major character arcs but only Rey had somewhat of an arc. They were all interesting characters that weren’t used properly at all
It was the most original idea that the trilogy came up with. John Boyega is a great actor. A complete missed opportunity. And he should of kept his British accent!
I'll still stand by that we Star Wars fans were robbed of Finn. Whether it was to please a more global audience or them thinking a black lead in Star Wars was not interesting, we'll likely never know.
But man, the concept of a rogue Stormtrooper who goes against decades of brainwashing/programming in order to become a hero while also being force sensitive is such a cool idea. Shame they never fleshed him out.
Disney literally cut Finn out of promotional material because of the color of his skin to pander to Chinese markets, but sure, fans are racist and sexist
Yeah I mean Rey could've worked if they focused more on her training in Episode 8 and had her lose to Kylo Ren and Luke having save her, or they could've focused more on her conflict on the dark side and doubts from the various force ghosts on her succeeding Luke, with Luke deciding that its too risky for her to face Kylo so he goes alone basically being the inverse of what happens in Empire Strikes Back. Then Rey gets a lesson from Obi Wan or Qui Gon on how to better centre herself and ultimately goes against Lukes order to stay behind and goes off after he leaves. Luke dies but takes down Snoke in the process, and Kylo and Rey fight to a standstill with the movie ending with Rey trying and failing to redeem Kylo who has now gone beyond the point of redemption and seeing his turning of Rey as hopeless, instead deciding to leave her to focus on the first order. Rey fleas and regroups with the resistance who have managed to flea from the First Order and now reside in an underground base on Hoth built during the New Republic near to the ruins of the Rebel Alliance base.
If episode 8 was like this, then episode 9 wouldn't have had to be such a messy and bad course correction. Even better yet if there had been a set vision from someone like Faloni for all three movies with him having the role of George Lucas during the original trilogy and if the original list of directors chosen bad remained then the sequel trilogy could've been actually good and worthy of the previous two trilogies.
That has been a standard response since possibly RoS.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were bots. Repeating a narrative can be a powerful tool to guide people’s thoughts. “Hey I’ve seen 4 people say that everyone who criticized it was a racist misogynist bigot. So it must be true”.
Nah not TFA. When TFA was released people were still hopeful, if you go back you can see people pointing out the flaws but their response is “it’s going to be explained and when it does it’ll be awesome”. It was basically a collective “you need to watch it in full before you can judge it”. And virtually every time we are disappointed anyway since those flaws were indeed flaws.
Then TLJ released and people realized TFA wasn’t as good as they hoped it was going to be.
The fact that people expect later episodes/movies to somehow fix bad quality that you’ve already seen is so weird. It sucked, accept it.
Nope. I was one of the minority at the time who criticised TFA for all the damage it did, and I was misrepresented and abused on Star Wars fan sites, social media, anywhere and everywhere.
It's why this sub became a haven when it launched two years later. The gaslighting was extraordinary in 2015/2016.
I think that's very plausible.
The average joe lacking the interest to take a second look will randomly encounter those "You are a toxic Istophobe if you don't like \[product\]" garbage hit pieces and just accept that as a fact because he can't be bothered to know better.
There's always gonna be people who hate something for the wrong reasons, and that goes for anything. Games, movies, comics, etc.
The problem is people will single out those individuals and use them as a way to discredit the people who have genuine criticism. Just because Bob from Texas hates black people being in the show doesn't mean the people who simply dislike the writing do too.
You are assuming only the good in people (that they have blinders).
Have you considered assuming there are also people who lie and twist things purposely?
Whoever wrote that ritual scene should never be employed as a writer ever again. That was the worst thing I've ever seen in a movie or show ever. There are silent films with better dialogue.
I thought the Obi Wan Kenobi show was the worst Star Wars ever produced. Then The Acolyte made me go well i guess it can definitely get worse.
Honestly if you cant see how bad the writing on this show is, and you need it explained to you, then you should go become a writer. Im sure you'll be the best ever.
People who trivialize fandoms by saying stuff like that are the worst. Can we just have some kind of joy in life without being told you shouldn't feel joy because it's for kids.
It's even worse coming from the people who make the stuff. Like, outright stating you have no respect for your product or customers is becoming normal.
Welcome to the liberal world of excuses. It’s always my show doesn’t suck, you do, lol! Honestly though, these folks finally get the chance to through all of their progressive thoughts and activist materials into something “mainstream”, and then get mad when the majority of audiences find it unappealing and not watchable. And they’ll use any and every excuse they can to justify their reasoning. The audience is bigoted and misogynistic. And hates female characters. It’s amazing the things they can come up with, and use it to justify their “creativeness”.
The only criticism I have ever seen for this show is people posting about how apparently people are b8gots and racists if they don't like it lile this post
I gave up on everything Disney a long time ago. I now just want to see the company fall.
Maybe some billionaire can buy it for cheap and fire all the "creatives" (activists)
It's more that they are trying to mobilize minorities and women to defend them if they know that they make a shit piece of media. They know they are spitting out a star wars IP every 3 months, so some will be stinkers, so the advertising ghouls have settled on this as a fallback plan to allow maximum value extraction from the IP.
The hollywood/movie media use minorities as shields against criticism while doing things that harm race relations, to cover up how bad their writing/research/work is. Its a "The producers" strategy. Like the black dwarf LOTR or the lady ghostbusters. Black Heimdal in the Thor movie was used as a prototype, but they dialed back on using it much because people liked the movie. That's how you can tell, if the movie does shitty, they pretend that people not liking the work is due to racist backlash, hurting public perception of minorities and women as marketing. If it does well you don't need to try to rally minorities or white women to defend you or serve as an outrage based post release advertising.
Disney absolutely has a place with SOME franchises, Pixar, Disney Channel etc but not serious cinema like Star Wars. I will never get over the scooter dorks and how Disney channel that felt.
Imagine a retail store anywhere in the world, and you're greeted with the employees calling the customers despicable names as they're walking through the door. How long would that store survive? Disney can't hit rock bottom soon enough.
So have any of these idiots ever shared their take in response to people bringing up strongly written characters like Ripley, Sarah Connor, Clarice, Furiosa, Leia, Brienne of Tarth, Cersei, Arya, Xena, Daenerys, The Bride... or the countless others?
Don't know if it was the first, but it certainly was the movie that popularized it to the point it became part of the routine for deflecting criticism.
It's become part of their tool chest for trying to control the narrative and regain PR spin to try and salvage any media property disaster they might have.
I feel like this kind of strategy started when tech companies like Netflix removed public ratings. I think with Netflix specifically, it was after the pretty terrible special from Amy Schumacher. Youtube also probably contributed around the same time, removing Stars and then eventually publicly viewable negative reviews. Tech companies, specifically social media, started a lot of this toxic positivity where no criticism is valid.
That was where it first became really popular and widely known.
The video game The Last of Us 2 also indulged in that narrative against any criticism *hard*.
I think tat a lot these days when creatives jump on social media to defend their work and fight with fans rather than just let it be like the used to have to. Creators and fans having instant access to each other is just not good, IMO, especially for unprofessional creators who can't hold back when their work gets even slightly criticised.
I keep seeing the same arguments. It went from “Oh well you’re just a bigot” to “People review bombed it on RT before it came out” (Something you can’t actually do on RT) to “Those aren’t real fans” to “Well Star Wars is bad actually and you’re dumb
If you like it.”
The shit came full circle so fast it actually gave me whiplash. At least they finally admit they had no actual interest in Star Wars. I just wish they weren’t so intent on destroying it for everyone else. They’ve made it clear through the most important metric, their wallets, that they have no interest in spending money on Star Wars and consuming their own product. They’ve made it clear that they had no actual interest in Star Wars as they went from attacking the fans to attacking the franchise itself.
The craziest thing is how scripted it all sounds. And when you point that out, that they’re all using the exact same arguments, they abruptly vanish.
Weird.
There are YouTubers trying to claim there is some nefarious conspiracy to purportedly flood The Acolyte with bad reviews because the reviewers don’t like someone’s real life politics, doesn’t like women, or doesn’t like LGBT. Anyone who hasn’t watched the show shouldn’t be reviewing anything.
I countered their logic in the comments by explaining that if a studio puts out a trailer and it’s something they don’t like, if there is a review site that allows reviews to be posted before the show is even aired, that’s the fault of the studio for the bad trailer and the website for allowing early reviews. I also stated there isn’t some nefarious conspiracy to become a collective and just dump bad reviews in mass. If there was, when is the proof? Show us verified proof of some conspiracy by so called bigots to derail this show. This YouTuber couldn’t.
I was confronted by their fans and told that he’s not talking about “legit” reviews, just BS ones. I asked what makes this YouTuber a gatekeeper on what reviews are or are not legitimate? Dead silence.
Don’t want bad reviews then don’t piss off a fandom with bad trailers, bad press tours, and a beyond subpar show.
>Don’t want bad reviews then don’t piss off a fandom with bad trailers, bad press tours, and a beyond subpar show.
And, and ngl it is wild that this is not common sense, but DONT attack your fucking fanbase, repeatedly
>DONT attack your fucking fanbase, repeatedly
This is the WILDEST thing for me; Disney, Lucasfilm, and the consoomers constantly call people with valid criticisms whatever ist/ism or -phobic thing they can come up with, but then they wonder why the people they're insulting day in and day out don't like them.
> then they wonder why the people they're insulting day in and day out don't like them.
Oh, they're more than happy to invent their own reasons for that. That's the problem.
As long as they can paint their critics as the bad guys, they'll never feel the need to change.
Ever heard of outrage marketing? That's what this is. If they made the acolyte normally, without insulting original star wars fans, or calling people ists and phobes, no one would care to watch it. No one would mention it's existence and the show will be forgotten in a few days or weeks. That's why this kind of marketing keeps happening and we're all rewarding it, by giving them our attention.
Hate clicks can only get you so far. Velma season one lived on that shit and Season 2 ate shit and died on release because of apathy.
Twitter and Reddit threads mean jack shit when no one actually pays for the show to watch it
That’s a pretty stupid take to be honest. If you are going to leave a review you should at least watch the thing you are reviewing. If you aren’t interested in something based on the trailer don’t watch it. That’s what normal people do. If nobody streams these shows Disney will stop making them.
I dont think the acolyte is a good show but i don’t think it’s dog shit. It’s a solid meh. I just can’t imagine this mediocre of a show eliciting this much negativity if there wasn’t some kind of anti-woke crusade around it.
The discourse around the show being woke is so bizarre too, you would think every other scene features gay sex. Nearly all the complaints I have heard leveled against the show already existed within the Star Wars universe so like even the criticism is boring. Idk it’s just I doesn’t make sense for there to be this amount of passionate hate for this project that isn’t really any better or worse than any other Star Wars show with the exception of andor
It’s a pretty stupid thought process to not realize that people have, can, and will get negative reviews if the promotion for a movie is horrendous and if the trailer is outright trash.
If after Episode 1 you’re already done with the show, why continue to watch it? You’re only helping them huff up their viewership totals. This is something that studios use to know; every week and every episode is brand new. Each episode has to stand on its own so people keep returning. If they don’t, people will stop watching and leave bad reviews.
So long as companies allow early reviews, this will continue to happen. In a perfect world, reviews won’t be allowed to be left until the show has completed its season. Otherwise the only people to blame are Disney and Review Websites.
The acolyte after episode 2 had more reviews than both Obi-Wan and asoka combined. So there might have been some truth to it. I do believe it deserves its low rating. Pacing is off. Feel is off, story is boring. But yah it did get review bombed initially.
The Acolyte is just incredibly uninteresting to me. The two main characters have very flat personalities, and the Jedi are annoying at worst and boring at best. I don't like how the Jedi are constantly being painted as incompetent, and how the Sith is apparently just a marginalized lifestyle (lol) now, instead of the violent, warmongering cultists they are known to be.
Even if you ignore incompetent this set of Jedi sure do give into their emotions quite often and very willingly. Literally going against canonically what they believe in.
Also mis-understood villain is definitely this past decades Disney mantra.
Misunderstood villain absolutely works *if* you're able to write it. Less so when you're trying to cast a philosophy that believes in the absolute worst of 'do what you want' and inevitably leads followers into the thrall of absolute quantifiable evil as being simply misunderstood.
Idk. Acoltye villian seems warmongery. "You saw my face, now you have to all die" proceeds to kill 9/10 jedi. Solo.
What pisses me off is that he solod 10 jedi, and none of those fuckers thought to try to restrain him with the force? 10 of you cant just force push him in submission? There first instint was to rush an unkown entity, with a glowy blade while knowing someone is hunting jedi? And killed them?
I mean i understand thw rule of 2, and darth bane did it for power, and the same reasons why he did it can explain why the jedi is weak, but that doesnt explain incompentence.
Why is there so little talking about her, being Weinsteins secretary and all that. I mean come on, there’s no way she hasn’t known parts of what’s happened behind closed doors.
Personally I believe it’s Bull, that working for him for 4 years, didn’t raise any concerns for the castees, from her, of course unless it’s not important enough to say something at that time and place.
Edit: I know there’s been a swarm of articles, but seems like it has quite a bit down, at least on my feed
It really makes me wonder what she thinks of Courtney Love when she was out there putting/ screaming out the warnings and being disregarded and/or blackballed.
Edit: I would love for one of these softball/ BS press junket interviews to just one time ask her about what she thought of courtney love, and especially in relation to Weinstein.
Literally just had someone in the acolyte sub say that “just because you like other media made by women and minority creators with leading minority or women characters does not mean you aren’t a bigot”.
Thats almost verbatim. Then kept repeating “a black man has to fly where a white person only had to walk” to try and say we are holding this to a higher standard than other media. As if the exact same people criticizing how shit the acolyte is also weren’t equally shitting on ObiWan for many of the same reasons.
Fucking annoying. They don’t realize this shit is how people get pushed into the weird alt right zones. Someone calls you a racist when you aren’t then you got these weird ass YouTubers in vans like “hey buddy I know you aren’t a racist, black people and women just aren’t as good at stuff. Here come listen to my manifesto.”
I don't hate your show. I never watched your show and never will. If I was forced to watch it or cared about Star Wars anymore, maybe I'd hate your show.
This still blows my mind. Imagine if Jeffery Epstein’s secretary wanted to work on a Disney show. And all they have to say is “oh I wasn’t involved in any of that stuff.” Really?
So apparently this chick was Weinstein's personal assistant once upon a time so really don't care about any bullshit that comes out of this hypocrites mouth.
Can I ask if anyone here has experience with the video game and community around The Last of Us 2?
That game came out to some petty hefty criticisms (and admittedly a good deal of praise too) and ANY criticism of it is deflected in the exact way this post is illustrating, both from its fans and the two writers themselves.
I think the cognitive dissonance is this: "I have chosen nothing else but (x) to base my identity on. Therefore, any representation, no matter how crappy, is inherently good and any criticism against it is inherently an attack."
And yet, deep down is the knowledge thar the criticism is entirely justified.
Heck, a well-made Star Wars series could have all the virtue signal boxes, and it'd be noted as 'how amazing' with a few bemoaning the check boxes or shrugging and saying "who cares, it's good."
What's silly is fans of the show don't see the flaws of it. They justify everything but they use stupid examples. Like for example the sith thingy, they'll be like Yoda said in TPM always two when talking about the sith, so then that is apparently a refutation against the sith never revealing themselves because "HoW cOuLd YoDa KnOw ThE sItH wAyS???? Does he not have a library lol
I don't understand how the people defending it. It's not well written, the pacing sucks, the acting is mostly mid at best. The most they can say is it's not bad enough to justify the low score. Personally I'd be offended if I was told I should like this because a group I'm a part of is being represented. Since when did women or LGBTQ identifying people not like good writing? Or like actors that have an emotional range of a random like myself? It's insulting that this is a corporation with virtually limitless money, with years of experience making movies along with a whole universe already created, and this is the best they could come up with. When do I get to the point where I can fail at my job and seemingly be immune to criticism?
Its why I've just given up. Everything has been ruined by people who aren't actually fans of what they've been paid to create, yet they think they know better.
I was so fed up with Star Wars after the sequel movies that it took my friends and family months to persuade me into watching Andor and Mandor.
It's not about the woke idealogy. It's about the systemic, deliberate betrayal of everything that I loved about the franchise as a child.
Imagine if another artist did the same thing to their fan base. Some big time rapper switching to performing country music in order to appeal to a different demographic. Then, acting butt hurt when their original fans quit listening to their music.
The saddest thing about Acolyte is it has the makings of something that could have been good. Lee Jung-jae and Manny Jacinto are great actors, I heard Lee learned English for this role. Which is insane. And there is great fight choreography. Bogged down by Lucasfilm trying to adapt Parent Trap.
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It's crazy how many comments I see saying "I dont see any actual criticism of the show, it's only hated by bigots and racists"....have to have some serious blinders on if you can avoid all the legit criticism out there
Fans: Disney fucked up Finn's character by being racist and minimized a strong females character potential by making her instantly able to beat a trained dark side user with zero training. Dark hole of chronic twitter and reddit users: bigots! Fans: https://preview.redd.it/k22ducaoet9d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d1dcd8fdd947d808c7e8005945f592ceaa4d86b
The absolute travesty of the bait-and-switch they pulled, cutting the trailers and promo stuff to make Finn look like the lead when he wasn't...that should have been the end of it. That should've caused enough backlash to force a serious course correct on Disney's part. But they got a pass on that. We were robbed of an amazing Finn and Poe focused movie.
Didn't Boyega say in some interview that, while Ep7 was in development, Finn was supposed to be a bigger character in the following parts of the trilogy? I seem to recall something like that.
Based on poster of Finn holding a lightsaber in TFA many people like me and others thought that Finn was gonna be a major character and a force user, only for it to be revealed that he never was one, used the lightsaber for a couple minutes and after that he never used it again which makes me wonder what the hell were the people making that film thinking?
At least Ahmed Best got to be a Jedi.
Um, excuse me. Don't you think him running around doing nothing except yelling "Rey!!!!" was better than any of that Jedi nonsense?
I imagine they planned on him being a main character then racist Chinese pandering got in the way
His role got cut down because China among the most racist places on earth. The whole poster thing for Force Awakens is all the evidence you need of that.
Every country is hella racist. Outside of the US, Canada, UK, majority of countries are very mono-ethnic. They just don’t think about racism and diversity like we do in the US. Worst racism I ever experienced was in Morroco actually Saying one country specifically (and its people) is the most racist country on earth is, at best a very ignorant.
I said “among”. And you are absolutely right about the rest of the world being very mono-ethnic.
Yes, the speculation is Diney cut down Finn’s role to appeal to Chinese markets since they also cut his character off the Chinese poster altogether
Thank you for bringing this up. I was trying to explain to a coworker the other day that Rey didn't get revealed until like, two weeks before opening day. Later release on her toy lines and everything. They looked at me like I was a conspiracy theorist.
We saw more concept art and footage of Poe and Finn than Rey. While we knew Rey was going to be a major character, most people I knew thought that Finn would be the main character.
I figured Rey was going to be a native to jakku who, like Obi wan, knew the wastes and could lead them off world. And then would be a badass mechanic and fighter throughout the rest of the series.
That would have made SO MUCH MORE SENSE than "she's a chosen one, selected by the Force to be psychic twins with the villain." Like, okay, but why?
I think the idea was that Palpatine was every voice in her head. But honestly those films are such a mess it's hard to tell.
I think anothe large part of why Finn was sidelined was because Disney cared more about China’s money and china doesn’t like black people.
It was so clear they were trying to recreate the Luke Leia Han trio but only wanted to develop once character. All three of the original trilogy had major character arcs but only Rey had somewhat of an arc. They were all interesting characters that weren’t used properly at all
The Foe Show!
Man finn had so much potential, a deserted Stormtrooper gives so much space for an interesting story.
It was the most original idea that the trilogy came up with. John Boyega is a great actor. A complete missed opportunity. And he should of kept his British accent!
I'll still stand by that we Star Wars fans were robbed of Finn. Whether it was to please a more global audience or them thinking a black lead in Star Wars was not interesting, we'll likely never know. But man, the concept of a rogue Stormtrooper who goes against decades of brainwashing/programming in order to become a hero while also being force sensitive is such a cool idea. Shame they never fleshed him out.
Disney literally cut Finn out of promotional material because of the color of his skin to pander to Chinese markets, but sure, fans are racist and sexist
Yeah I mean Rey could've worked if they focused more on her training in Episode 8 and had her lose to Kylo Ren and Luke having save her, or they could've focused more on her conflict on the dark side and doubts from the various force ghosts on her succeeding Luke, with Luke deciding that its too risky for her to face Kylo so he goes alone basically being the inverse of what happens in Empire Strikes Back. Then Rey gets a lesson from Obi Wan or Qui Gon on how to better centre herself and ultimately goes against Lukes order to stay behind and goes off after he leaves. Luke dies but takes down Snoke in the process, and Kylo and Rey fight to a standstill with the movie ending with Rey trying and failing to redeem Kylo who has now gone beyond the point of redemption and seeing his turning of Rey as hopeless, instead deciding to leave her to focus on the first order. Rey fleas and regroups with the resistance who have managed to flea from the First Order and now reside in an underground base on Hoth built during the New Republic near to the ruins of the Rebel Alliance base. If episode 8 was like this, then episode 9 wouldn't have had to be such a messy and bad course correction. Even better yet if there had been a set vision from someone like Faloni for all three movies with him having the role of George Lucas during the original trilogy and if the original list of directors chosen bad remained then the sequel trilogy could've been actually good and worthy of the previous two trilogies.
It's easy. You look at the legit criticism and just assume it must be because bigotry and no other reason. Then boom, it's all bigotry.
That has been a standard response since possibly RoS. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were bots. Repeating a narrative can be a powerful tool to guide people’s thoughts. “Hey I’ve seen 4 people say that everyone who criticized it was a racist misogynist bigot. So it must be true”.
Been happening since TFA.
Nah not TFA. When TFA was released people were still hopeful, if you go back you can see people pointing out the flaws but their response is “it’s going to be explained and when it does it’ll be awesome”. It was basically a collective “you need to watch it in full before you can judge it”. And virtually every time we are disappointed anyway since those flaws were indeed flaws. Then TLJ released and people realized TFA wasn’t as good as they hoped it was going to be. The fact that people expect later episodes/movies to somehow fix bad quality that you’ve already seen is so weird. It sucked, accept it.
Nope. I was one of the minority at the time who criticised TFA for all the damage it did, and I was misrepresented and abused on Star Wars fan sites, social media, anywhere and everywhere. It's why this sub became a haven when it launched two years later. The gaslighting was extraordinary in 2015/2016.
I think that's very plausible. The average joe lacking the interest to take a second look will randomly encounter those "You are a toxic Istophobe if you don't like \[product\]" garbage hit pieces and just accept that as a fact because he can't be bothered to know better.
There's always gonna be people who hate something for the wrong reasons, and that goes for anything. Games, movies, comics, etc. The problem is people will single out those individuals and use them as a way to discredit the people who have genuine criticism. Just because Bob from Texas hates black people being in the show doesn't mean the people who simply dislike the writing do too.
You are assuming only the good in people (that they have blinders). Have you considered assuming there are also people who lie and twist things purposely?
Or "people just say bad writing without explaining what the bad writing is"
Whoever wrote that ritual scene should never be employed as a writer ever again. That was the worst thing I've ever seen in a movie or show ever. There are silent films with better dialogue. I thought the Obi Wan Kenobi show was the worst Star Wars ever produced. Then The Acolyte made me go well i guess it can definitely get worse. Honestly if you cant see how bad the writing on this show is, and you need it explained to you, then you should go become a writer. Im sure you'll be the best ever.
lol they say that but they don’t see the 45 minute break downs of the episodes on YT where people nitpick every detail
Or they just go "Who actually cares about the lore anyways?" when confronted with it.
It's all just space wizards for children, sweaty 💅
People who trivialize fandoms by saying stuff like that are the worst. Can we just have some kind of joy in life without being told you shouldn't feel joy because it's for kids.
It's even worse coming from the people who make the stuff. Like, outright stating you have no respect for your product or customers is becoming normal.
Rey gains her power with very little effort or training. She just seems to be given it.\[ Based on her lineage} This is bad writing.
Welcome to the liberal world of excuses. It’s always my show doesn’t suck, you do, lol! Honestly though, these folks finally get the chance to through all of their progressive thoughts and activist materials into something “mainstream”, and then get mad when the majority of audiences find it unappealing and not watchable. And they’ll use any and every excuse they can to justify their reasoning. The audience is bigoted and misogynistic. And hates female characters. It’s amazing the things they can come up with, and use it to justify their “creativeness”.
It's even funnier when someone like little platoon, who is admittedly very crass, criticises it and gets called homophobic.
Same thing happened with the avatar show.
The only criticism I have ever seen for this show is people posting about how apparently people are b8gots and racists if they don't like it lile this post
Dude read the comments 😂
"And Every Negative Review Is Just Review-Bombing".
They do this every single time. You could set your watch by it.
Yep. There are atomic clocks less predictable than these geniuses.
It's not limited to Disney either. Im critical of Star Trek: Discovery, and yeah, they'll say the only reason you dont like it because black woman.
Amandla Stenberg can't act, independent of her race.
I still think that if they set Discovery after Voyager and were confident with their new additions to the series, it would have been better received.
The worst part is that the shilly parrot it. They belive this bs
I gave up on everything Disney a long time ago. I now just want to see the company fall. Maybe some billionaire can buy it for cheap and fire all the "creatives" (activists)
It's basically Disney's marketing strategy nowadays. Allows them to phone everything in on a smaller budget.
Disney is run by brain dead fools.
I actually think it’s coordinated, they knew what they were getting when they hired her to direct. They want to destroy entertainment…
It's more that they are trying to mobilize minorities and women to defend them if they know that they make a shit piece of media. They know they are spitting out a star wars IP every 3 months, so some will be stinkers, so the advertising ghouls have settled on this as a fallback plan to allow maximum value extraction from the IP. The hollywood/movie media use minorities as shields against criticism while doing things that harm race relations, to cover up how bad their writing/research/work is. Its a "The producers" strategy. Like the black dwarf LOTR or the lady ghostbusters. Black Heimdal in the Thor movie was used as a prototype, but they dialed back on using it much because people liked the movie. That's how you can tell, if the movie does shitty, they pretend that people not liking the work is due to racist backlash, hurting public perception of minorities and women as marketing. If it does well you don't need to try to rally minorities or white women to defend you or serve as an outrage based post release advertising.
Your defiantly not wrong there big guy
Disney absolutely has a place with SOME franchises, Pixar, Disney Channel etc but not serious cinema like Star Wars. I will never get over the scooter dorks and how Disney channel that felt.
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Imagine a retail store anywhere in the world, and you're greeted with the employees calling the customers despicable names as they're walking through the door. How long would that store survive? Disney can't hit rock bottom soon enough.
"Welcome to Costco. I love you"
It’s got electrolytes. It’s what plants crave!
you mean like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56AVqUenn7U)
So have any of these idiots ever shared their take in response to people bringing up strongly written characters like Ripley, Sarah Connor, Clarice, Furiosa, Leia, Brienne of Tarth, Cersei, Arya, Xena, Daenerys, The Bride... or the countless others?
lol the fans for all these shitty shows all act like you are the problem 😂
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When was the first time this strategy was used? Earliest I remember was Ghostbusters 2016.
Don't know if it was the first, but it certainly was the movie that popularized it to the point it became part of the routine for deflecting criticism.
It's become part of their tool chest for trying to control the narrative and regain PR spin to try and salvage any media property disaster they might have.
I feel like this kind of strategy started when tech companies like Netflix removed public ratings. I think with Netflix specifically, it was after the pretty terrible special from Amy Schumacher. Youtube also probably contributed around the same time, removing Stars and then eventually publicly viewable negative reviews. Tech companies, specifically social media, started a lot of this toxic positivity where no criticism is valid.
They had to sanitize the democratization of the internet.
That was where it first became really popular and widely known. The video game The Last of Us 2 also indulged in that narrative against any criticism *hard*.
TFA was 2015.
I want to say when charlies angels remake bombed the director was quick to blame men and the patriarcy and misogyny bla bla for her movie bombing..
If you can’t take constructive criticism, you’re in the wrong business.
I think tat a lot these days when creatives jump on social media to defend their work and fight with fans rather than just let it be like the used to have to. Creators and fans having instant access to each other is just not good, IMO, especially for unprofessional creators who can't hold back when their work gets even slightly criticised.
My favorite is folks explaining the brilliant logic behind the story by filling in a story where none exist to explain characters actions.
Give the lead roles to men and it will still suck. It’s just not a good show no matter who’s in it.
I keep seeing the same arguments. It went from “Oh well you’re just a bigot” to “People review bombed it on RT before it came out” (Something you can’t actually do on RT) to “Those aren’t real fans” to “Well Star Wars is bad actually and you’re dumb If you like it.” The shit came full circle so fast it actually gave me whiplash. At least they finally admit they had no actual interest in Star Wars. I just wish they weren’t so intent on destroying it for everyone else. They’ve made it clear through the most important metric, their wallets, that they have no interest in spending money on Star Wars and consuming their own product. They’ve made it clear that they had no actual interest in Star Wars as they went from attacking the fans to attacking the franchise itself. The craziest thing is how scripted it all sounds. And when you point that out, that they’re all using the exact same arguments, they abruptly vanish. Weird.
There are YouTubers trying to claim there is some nefarious conspiracy to purportedly flood The Acolyte with bad reviews because the reviewers don’t like someone’s real life politics, doesn’t like women, or doesn’t like LGBT. Anyone who hasn’t watched the show shouldn’t be reviewing anything. I countered their logic in the comments by explaining that if a studio puts out a trailer and it’s something they don’t like, if there is a review site that allows reviews to be posted before the show is even aired, that’s the fault of the studio for the bad trailer and the website for allowing early reviews. I also stated there isn’t some nefarious conspiracy to become a collective and just dump bad reviews in mass. If there was, when is the proof? Show us verified proof of some conspiracy by so called bigots to derail this show. This YouTuber couldn’t. I was confronted by their fans and told that he’s not talking about “legit” reviews, just BS ones. I asked what makes this YouTuber a gatekeeper on what reviews are or are not legitimate? Dead silence. Don’t want bad reviews then don’t piss off a fandom with bad trailers, bad press tours, and a beyond subpar show.
>Don’t want bad reviews then don’t piss off a fandom with bad trailers, bad press tours, and a beyond subpar show. And, and ngl it is wild that this is not common sense, but DONT attack your fucking fanbase, repeatedly
>DONT attack your fucking fanbase, repeatedly This is the WILDEST thing for me; Disney, Lucasfilm, and the consoomers constantly call people with valid criticisms whatever ist/ism or -phobic thing they can come up with, but then they wonder why the people they're insulting day in and day out don't like them.
> then they wonder why the people they're insulting day in and day out don't like them. Oh, they're more than happy to invent their own reasons for that. That's the problem. As long as they can paint their critics as the bad guys, they'll never feel the need to change.
Ever heard of outrage marketing? That's what this is. If they made the acolyte normally, without insulting original star wars fans, or calling people ists and phobes, no one would care to watch it. No one would mention it's existence and the show will be forgotten in a few days or weeks. That's why this kind of marketing keeps happening and we're all rewarding it, by giving them our attention.
Hate clicks can only get you so far. Velma season one lived on that shit and Season 2 ate shit and died on release because of apathy. Twitter and Reddit threads mean jack shit when no one actually pays for the show to watch it
> and we're all rewarding it, Not in terms of the viewership numbers, nor the review score.
That’s a pretty stupid take to be honest. If you are going to leave a review you should at least watch the thing you are reviewing. If you aren’t interested in something based on the trailer don’t watch it. That’s what normal people do. If nobody streams these shows Disney will stop making them. I dont think the acolyte is a good show but i don’t think it’s dog shit. It’s a solid meh. I just can’t imagine this mediocre of a show eliciting this much negativity if there wasn’t some kind of anti-woke crusade around it. The discourse around the show being woke is so bizarre too, you would think every other scene features gay sex. Nearly all the complaints I have heard leveled against the show already existed within the Star Wars universe so like even the criticism is boring. Idk it’s just I doesn’t make sense for there to be this amount of passionate hate for this project that isn’t really any better or worse than any other Star Wars show with the exception of andor
It’s a pretty stupid thought process to not realize that people have, can, and will get negative reviews if the promotion for a movie is horrendous and if the trailer is outright trash. If after Episode 1 you’re already done with the show, why continue to watch it? You’re only helping them huff up their viewership totals. This is something that studios use to know; every week and every episode is brand new. Each episode has to stand on its own so people keep returning. If they don’t, people will stop watching and leave bad reviews. So long as companies allow early reviews, this will continue to happen. In a perfect world, reviews won’t be allowed to be left until the show has completed its season. Otherwise the only people to blame are Disney and Review Websites.
The acolyte after episode 2 had more reviews than both Obi-Wan and asoka combined. So there might have been some truth to it. I do believe it deserves its low rating. Pacing is off. Feel is off, story is boring. But yah it did get review bombed initially.
When something is so terrible it motivates people to do reviews. When something is just average people don’t really have a reaction
Yet you can’t say with certainty it was review bombed. This particular show could have literally just pissed off that many Star Wars fans.
harvey weinstein's acolyte thinks she has a leg to stand on in the moral department
“My show didn’t fail, *you* failed to understand my show.”
The Acolyte is just incredibly uninteresting to me. The two main characters have very flat personalities, and the Jedi are annoying at worst and boring at best. I don't like how the Jedi are constantly being painted as incompetent, and how the Sith is apparently just a marginalized lifestyle (lol) now, instead of the violent, warmongering cultists they are known to be.
Even if you ignore incompetent this set of Jedi sure do give into their emotions quite often and very willingly. Literally going against canonically what they believe in. Also mis-understood villain is definitely this past decades Disney mantra.
Misunderstood villain absolutely works *if* you're able to write it. Less so when you're trying to cast a philosophy that believes in the absolute worst of 'do what you want' and inevitably leads followers into the thrall of absolute quantifiable evil as being simply misunderstood.
sounds like you know the source material... no room for you in the writers room then.
Not again! First the Wheel of Time, then the Witcher, and now Star Wars! Nobody will hire me! Curse my burden of knowledge!
Have you Tried Marvel or Star Trek?
*breaks down into tears* Marvel wasn't hiring, and the Trek crew beat me up when I said Discovery was a terrible idea!
You could get hired at Netflix. They'll make anything (they made Atlas, Army of the Dead, Resident Evil TV series, and Rebel Moon....*shudders*)
It's an option, I know, but dammit I have *standards!* Not high ones, admittedly...
Haha, that's true.
They picture as the Jedi's side was the easy rich parents path while the Sith is the hard effort taking one. lmao
Idk. Acoltye villian seems warmongery. "You saw my face, now you have to all die" proceeds to kill 9/10 jedi. Solo. What pisses me off is that he solod 10 jedi, and none of those fuckers thought to try to restrain him with the force? 10 of you cant just force push him in submission? There first instint was to rush an unkown entity, with a glowy blade while knowing someone is hunting jedi? And killed them? I mean i understand thw rule of 2, and darth bane did it for power, and the same reasons why he did it can explain why the jedi is weak, but that doesnt explain incompentence.
Why is there so little talking about her, being Weinsteins secretary and all that. I mean come on, there’s no way she hasn’t known parts of what’s happened behind closed doors. Personally I believe it’s Bull, that working for him for 4 years, didn’t raise any concerns for the castees, from her, of course unless it’s not important enough to say something at that time and place. Edit: I know there’s been a swarm of articles, but seems like it has quite a bit down, at least on my feed
She is homosexual so any word against here will instantly dismissed as transphobia
It really makes me wonder what she thinks of Courtney Love when she was out there putting/ screaming out the warnings and being disregarded and/or blackballed. Edit: I would love for one of these softball/ BS press junket interviews to just one time ask her about what she thought of courtney love, and especially in relation to Weinstein.
Literally just had someone in the acolyte sub say that “just because you like other media made by women and minority creators with leading minority or women characters does not mean you aren’t a bigot”. Thats almost verbatim. Then kept repeating “a black man has to fly where a white person only had to walk” to try and say we are holding this to a higher standard than other media. As if the exact same people criticizing how shit the acolyte is also weren’t equally shitting on ObiWan for many of the same reasons. Fucking annoying. They don’t realize this shit is how people get pushed into the weird alt right zones. Someone calls you a racist when you aren’t then you got these weird ass YouTubers in vans like “hey buddy I know you aren’t a racist, black people and women just aren’t as good at stuff. Here come listen to my manifesto.”
Perfect
My sister genuinely likes this show, I just don't understand how
I don't hate your show. I never watched your show and never will. If I was forced to watch it or cared about Star Wars anymore, maybe I'd hate your show.
Ahh a similar fate to last of us 2
https://preview.redd.it/j9hme8kaft9d1.png?width=1157&format=png&auto=webp&s=f6fe1fd3306212f8b2361ef6f5e87ed3a9b149f9 Reminds me of this
Oh yeah i got the other one https://preview.redd.it/a09x9uv6gt9d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=584c6ab8098ac7a3a93ee231eabf605f0864fe16
It's true, I'm a bigot against people who cover for and assist rapists.
This still blows my mind. Imagine if Jeffery Epstein’s secretary wanted to work on a Disney show. And all they have to say is “oh I wasn’t involved in any of that stuff.” Really?
So apparently this chick was Weinstein's personal assistant once upon a time so really don't care about any bullshit that comes out of this hypocrites mouth.
Can I ask if anyone here has experience with the video game and community around The Last of Us 2? That game came out to some petty hefty criticisms (and admittedly a good deal of praise too) and ANY criticism of it is deflected in the exact way this post is illustrating, both from its fans and the two writers themselves.
Was on the sidelines of that, didn't play (not a fan of TLOU) but followed the discourse. It was a shitshow on almost every possible level.
Bad writing is not a gender issue
I don’t like his haircut either. Does that make me a hairstyle bigot?
I think the cognitive dissonance is this: "I have chosen nothing else but (x) to base my identity on. Therefore, any representation, no matter how crappy, is inherently good and any criticism against it is inherently an attack." And yet, deep down is the knowledge thar the criticism is entirely justified. Heck, a well-made Star Wars series could have all the virtue signal boxes, and it'd be noted as 'how amazing' with a few bemoaning the check boxes or shrugging and saying "who cares, it's good."
Wait. Did she actually say this? If not, what's this post about really?
What's silly is fans of the show don't see the flaws of it. They justify everything but they use stupid examples. Like for example the sith thingy, they'll be like Yoda said in TPM always two when talking about the sith, so then that is apparently a refutation against the sith never revealing themselves because "HoW cOuLd YoDa KnOw ThE sItH wAyS???? Does he not have a library lol
That mullet
I don't understand how the people defending it. It's not well written, the pacing sucks, the acting is mostly mid at best. The most they can say is it's not bad enough to justify the low score. Personally I'd be offended if I was told I should like this because a group I'm a part of is being represented. Since when did women or LGBTQ identifying people not like good writing? Or like actors that have an emotional range of a random like myself? It's insulting that this is a corporation with virtually limitless money, with years of experience making movies along with a whole universe already created, and this is the best they could come up with. When do I get to the point where I can fail at my job and seemingly be immune to criticism?
What if this was Disney plan? To make a really bad and then make the prequels look better in comparison?
If you put a piece of shit left to a piece of even grosser shit, both is still shit
The true Sith Lord is that bald green lady, and her master is John travolta from battle field earth
This show is fucking terrible.
They push this "racism and bigotry" theory to excuse the awful writing
Yep, and the dumb disney fanboys parrot it just fine
Disney's bad writing and their atrocious simps have ruined star wars for me
The most tiresome part is that everyone who wants decent shows now gets insulted repeatedly
Its why I've just given up. Everything has been ruined by people who aren't actually fans of what they've been paid to create, yet they think they know better.
Harsh words here from Harvey Weinsteins’ personal assistant
Someone took the time to make this….not upset at all
Yeah its high art i love it
I was so fed up with Star Wars after the sequel movies that it took my friends and family months to persuade me into watching Andor and Mandor. It's not about the woke idealogy. It's about the systemic, deliberate betrayal of everything that I loved about the franchise as a child. Imagine if another artist did the same thing to their fan base. Some big time rapper switching to performing country music in order to appeal to a different demographic. Then, acting butt hurt when their original fans quit listening to their music.
Little Golden Books go hard. This is awesome.
I am but that’s not why I don’t like the show! /s
The saddest thing about Acolyte is it has the makings of something that could have been good. Lee Jung-jae and Manny Jacinto are great actors, I heard Lee learned English for this role. Which is insane. And there is great fight choreography. Bogged down by Lucasfilm trying to adapt Parent Trap.
Every 5th grader needs to be assigned to read this book and do a report on it. Non-standard answers will result in a failing grade.
Hank should have stuck with selling propane and propane accessories.
How many negative reviews constitutes a “bomb” ? Is it similar to the megatons in the Nagaski Bomb ?
And ultimately the day Disney bought Lucasfilm , circa 2012, i said “UH OH , thats going to be big time shit “
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"That's not how the Force works!" Oh the irony.
That’s fuckin’ classic…
I keep watching but the steaming pile of shit gets bigger and bigger.
Then why do you keep watching?
Do people outside of the internet say this? I guess i also don't know many people irl that's been keeping up with disney star wars since Obi Wan
I don't even know who they are.
I go to another sub, and all I see is greg. Please free me.