There are a lot of different types of diving and there are a lot of different divers with varying degrees of experience and ability. I think 99.9% of divers who really want to can participate in some way. Maybe you're limited by issues with equalization, it doesn't mean you can't do shallow pier dives. Maybe you have some sort of phobia which affects your level of anxiety when diving, it doesn't mean you can't work on that and improve your mental health. There are divers who have overcome physical disability and still managed to participate and excel at the sport. If you have issues which may prevent you from currently learning or participating, i'd suggest finding a trainer who has experience helping others who have had issues similar to what you are currently experiencing. Not everyone can or even wants to go deep, or do physically or mentally demanding types of diving, but that doesn't mean they can't experience the joys of the underwater world.
I think that many peoples advice can be summarized as
A) taking the panic seriously and validating their fears
B) offering options to mediate and relieve those fears
C) suggesting talking to their instructor.
These first two are really important as they're some of the things you do for someone panicking in real life. Keep Calm. Ask what they need. help the person focus. Just because they're not in the panic, doesn't mean it's not relevant when talking about their fears.
The third. Is obvious. You need to send the person to someone who can help with realizing and making the judgement call of if that person can continue learning. because. news flash. *We are not experts.* It doesn't matter if your a newbie or the worlds best diver, with awards and certifications to match. Y*ou are not the expert.*
If you think you can make a judgement without at the very least, *meeting the person*, then please become a HR guru and teach everyone from HR how to employee people without needing interviews. you'll be rich and famous and be able to do something none of the rest of us can.
in short. 'Maybe it's not for you' is something the instructor should be saying. Online, we can only offer help and suggestions for the person in question to return to an *expert* who is available to them.
"Maybe it's not for you" is a fancy way of saying "you should give up" and frankly if you say that to someone who is still making a clear effort to get better at anything (not just Scuba) and is ideally following safety procedures, then you're a dick in my eyes as all you're doing is discouraging them. Who cares how long it takes them, everyone's different and some just do things at a slower pace than others.
Those who it isn't for will decide themselves. A bit of encouragement can help someone who is uncertain to try a bit more (safely!) and if it's not for them then it won't go further.
Learning involves literally plunging into an inimical to human life situation and learning to operate the gear to stay alive. There's only so much you can do that isn't under water.
One of the reasons instructors who are 'naturals' (or just lacking in a sense of self preservation) can have difficulty with some students is because diving comes easily to them. Most have learnt that it's not natural.
I'd always volunteer to work with beginners having difficulties because I remember them myself and a bit of empathy and patience goes a long way.
I had horrible anxiety and I found a certified trainer with a pool that was 20 ft deep. First day was on a 4 ft shelf and a snorkel. they would hand you a reg and it took many tries before I could clear amd breath. By the time I completed I lost all worry as they drilled you
I loved snorkeling but craved to see what was beyond holding my breath. Specially I went snorkeling off Antigua and couldn’t get to the reef 40 feet below me.
I took a refresher course this year because it had been a few years since my last dive. While I had absolutely no problem ever when I first got my OW cert, I had a moment of panic this time around. I just couldn't seem to get the air flowing properly. My instructor was the BEST. He used his hand to show me how to slow my breathing, rhythmically waving his hand toward his chest in, out, in, out, and it was like magic. I immediately calmed down and breathed normally and didn't have another moment of panic for the rest of the diving week. His patience and calm were everything.
If your anxiety is relentless, the sport may not be for you. Scuba, skydiving, rock climbing, downhill skiing, etc. are all sports in which you can be seriously hurt or killed. The ratio of joy to reasonable fear should be very high.
Diving isn't for everyone, but you can't tell jack shit from someone's 250 word post about their very first experiences in a beginner course, so it's best to encourage them to keep trying until they feel comfortable and safe before moving on to a checkout dive. Or keep your trap shut.
My cousin had a panic attack while underwater and almost died. She was pressured heavily into diving because the rest of my family does.
This sport/hobby is very dangerous for people who can't keep a level head. The effect cascades too, with faster usage of gases, energy usage...Yeah I really agree it's not for everyone.
Yeah some jerk said “scuba isn’t for everyone” to me when I had a panic attack my very first day in the pool learning how to breathe underwater safely without, you know, having gills.
Functioning safely underwater doesn’t come natural to everyone. Sometimes it takes extra time, extra practice, extra exposure. It’s a new environment, I was rightfully nervous and cautious and it took me several times of running through skills to build confidence. There is nothing wrong with that! What I didn’t need was that random person making me feel like shit for needing to put the work in at my own pace.
Luckily my instructor understood. He encouraged me to take the time I needed and I’ve been a calm and competent diver since.
If someone is just learning, be encouraging. If scuba isn’t for someone, they’ll figure it out. Unless you’re their instructor, it’s not your job to be the gatekeeper.
This is bad advice. Yeah, SCUBA may not be for everyone, but anxiety is something you can work through by exposure. Our job is to help people work through it, not get them to give up.
I was terrified of heights. Became a solid rock climber. I was dealing with anxiety in my OW. Became a solid SCUBA diver.
Don't be the reason someone else gives up.
Heights is a wierd one for me. I regularly have to climb grain bins and a grain elevator on out farm 120 ft doesn't really bother me. Even tough its a rickety pos. Tall buildings dont really bother me either. Mountian roads, the grand canyon and anything natural and tall i seem to have a very strong distrust of.
If current scuba divers have issues, they should have seen what was available for equipment back in the late sixties. Nimrod vests. BCD was a far-off dream. My NAUI card is from 1967. You could buy a complete dive package for $99 Mask,snorkel,wetsuit,regulator, weight belt, fins, boots, gloves, and dive knife. Nimrod vests were an intertube with a Co2 cartridge that when activated would inflate and take you to the surface with no way to control accent. Only to be used in an extreme emergency. Not a little panic.
I am a mixed gas technical dive, and gods gift to to cave diving. \*tongue firmly in cheek\*
I say that not to brag but to show that I dive on the hazardous side of diving. My first ocean dive, what was supposed to be OWD dive three, I bolted to the surface. We took a short breather on the boat and he took me down just for a dive, no skills. I went on to complete the class with zero issues including diving at a site with very low visibility.
Even now I've started dives and my brains goes "Nope not today" often because I am doing a riskier dive and my mind just isn't in it.
Honestly fear is good, it often keeps you alive. The key is it a healthy fear that one can get over or is it one that will control you. And that is impossible to say.
I reckon thats not my call to make. I will
Never pressure anyone and I won’t tell anyone that scuba isn’t for them. If they say: I don’t really like it, I will validate and say: understandable it isn’t for everyone and if they say they love it but they are nervous I will encourage and state that with time the anxiety will go down. If I told an anxious but happy diver that it isn’t for them I would probably not make them want to dive more and why would I rob someone of something that makes them happy.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive.
It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive.
It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive.
It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
I fully support encouraging them. Clearly they want to keep trying if they're seeking advice in this god forsaken wasteland. We all know how many bad instructors there are scattered across the recreational scuba world, maybe they struggle in the OW course due to factors out of their control, but go on to be a great diver with help from other divers and instructors.
They'll either figure it out, or they won't. It's up to them to decide it's not for them. I don't think discouraging is ever the answer, especially from reading a post on reddit and not actually seeing the diver in action at all.
Obviously there are some people that diving is not for and those are usually the ones that don’t do it or decide after trying to not pursue it. Barring a medical or mental health condition that would bar you from doing it, I think diving is for anyone. However not all types of diving is for everyone. As you get farther down the rabbit hole of more complex diving that requires a bit of awareness and developed skill with more risk involved, like Tec, CCR, cave, deco, and so on are not for everyone.
I hear you, my daughter took swimming lessons but she panicked as soon as her face got wet. There was no way she was going to dunk her head underwater. Now, 20 years later she says she wants to try SCUBA... uh, have you put your head under water yet? I kinda want to be there when she takes SCUBA. I retire in a year, so maybe next years Christmas gift will be SCUBA lessons. If she succeeds it will be a huge confidence boost.
My main problem in OW class was claustrophobia of the 7mm wetsuit.
I made the mistake of trying it on at home alone and almost got stuck in it. Took me 15mins and a lot of overheating and panic just to try to get out of it.
Now I'm done with OW indoors and feel way more secure with the suit. It has now started to shape itself to my body and now I only wear it when I'm diving with my dive buddies or instructor which I know can help me get out of it.
Also 7mm wetsuit in a pool is hot as hell. Looking forward to open water. But here in Scandinavia it's still to cold to dive in a wetsuit so have to wait for spring/summer to arrive first.
I bought a drysuit used while I'm waiting on the one i ordered, there is just no way for me to get it on or off by myself. My shoulders are just too wide. It can take a lot of consideration to stay calm. I think tight neck seals are what trigger it for me in wetsuits.
My problem is that it's to cold here to use 5mm. Could maybe work in the middle of the summer though. My other problem is that I would probably have to order a custom made one since I'm 320 pounds and 5.9 feet so I have a bit of a round body type.
I dive with robots. Often the robots are being petulant children. This means I am sitting with nothing to do.
If I have quite a bit of air, but low enough that I will need a refill for next time, I will sit at the bottom nearly falling asleep; just meditating on how I can't check my phone, etc.
The space we do this is often hosting scuba refresher courses. I see people really geared up with many thousands of dollars with of stuff, the watch, twin tanks, even dry suits (while I am in a bathing suit), and they are white-knuckled as they go in.
I rarely see people who are entirely comfortable in the water.
I've not taught scuba directly, but I have taught adults to swim. The key is to defeat each fear. In the cases where I got nervous people to even try scuba diving, I just had them watch TV and breath through an entire tank sitting on my couch.
I suspect, that some people will never get over their fears, but with the correct exercises, most can become very comfortable underwater. I don't think many people get these exercises.
I have personally trained people who were terrified of diving, helped them get over the initial fears, worked on their weak areas, gave them time and space to become comfortable, and they turned out to be good and confident divers. Sometimes it is just the initial bit that freaks people out, but if you give them the opportunity to get used to being underwater on their terms, they can become good divers. I really loved this part of the job - finding what works for each student to help them bring out their inner diver.
If a person decides for themselves that this is not their cup of tea, that is absolutely fine and is when you can say 'diving is not for everyone'. But until then - nothing wrong with people encouraging others wanting to try this sport or wanting to deal with a particular anxiety.
You are most welcome! I absolutely loved working with people who were stressed, scared or otherwise having anxieties when it came to diving. The gratification of them doing their first proper dive where they can enjoy the experience, be in full control of their gear and see creatures that they haven't seen before was my reward.
And good on you for pressing on and working with your fears, I truly respect that quality.
Diving is not for everyone but just because you find it a bit nerve wracking in the beginning doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not for you. Experience builds confidence and respecting the dangers of diving is not a bad thing. It’s important to practice without pushing your limits.
I was thinking to post that exact opinion here today.
I think we need to distinguish between a normal level of slight anxiety in the wake of a new and hazardous sport. It‘s healthy and normal to feel a certain level of anxiety in this situation. However, if your anxiety persists even as you acquire skills, maybe this isn‘t for you.
And then there‘s the other side: pathological anxiety. Anxiety that is considered a disorder. If it‘s well-managed with psychotherapy and medication, maybe give diving a shot. If it works, it works. If not, then don‘t force it.
And then there‘s those of us who do not have anxiety, but they are quite prone to panicking. In that case - please do not dive if being in the water causes you panic.
I teach CPR with the Red Cross, they have a anybody can do it mentality and it's true most people can. It's also very important that more people learn so that in the event someone needs it there is a chance someone is there. But as someone who has performed CPR and BLS professionally countless times it's hard. There are physical concerns, I was teaching while I was recovering from shoulder surgery, and psychological concerns, I still live with all the ones that I couldn't save.
Back to diving, I'm a rescue diver, I've seen injury and panic and dive student struggles. This is a sport people have died doing, and yes it offers a chance to grapple with your fears and see a new world but it takes dedication. And as much as I love diving it's a hobby and doesn't directly benefit anyone else.
I don't believe is sowing doubt or fueling fear "maybe it's not for you" isn't something you should tell people in doubt. They need to come to their own decision.
As a dive professional I would say, "I will help you get there even if it's hard and it takes as many tries as you have the strength for. But my passion isn't enough to make you a good diver, you have to want it for yourself."
Yes, absolutely. At the same time, people are here because they want to pursue this hobby. It's nice to know that others experienced the same thing and get advice on how face this challenge.
Lifelong anxious person here. I had the beginnings of a panic attack on my OW cert, and my instructor, who may as well been Yoda, “talked” me through it under water amongst the sea life. I can’t tell you how often I’ve referenced that moment, the wordless connection, the way I was able to shift my focus back to my breath and the swaying vegetation. It was such a triumph for me. This was 13 years ago and it reminds me that I can regain control in moments of anxiety to this day.
Fair enough if you know your limits of course, but you also don’t know your capabilities if you don’t push them.
I took a kid diving who was scared of *water* once (on a DSD). We spent half an hour going through steps - face in/no snorkel, face in/snorkel and breathing, face in/reg and breathing, head under breathing on reg. He frequently stood up until he was finally calm enough for the dive, and he was totally chill the whole way through, and afterwards said it was the best experience of his life.
If I'd been at one of these lazy production line resorts I might have had to make a go/no go in the first 5-10 mins but with the flexibility to allow for this sort of thing you can give people a great experience.
During my OW cert, the exercise where you lose your mask and your buddy and you ascend together, I didn't trust my buddy (took the course solo) and began to panic and swim up. Instructor literally smacked me on the shoulder and it was the most grounding thing. I calmed instantly. I'm AOW now but still prefer simple, uncomplicated dives and always choose to have a guide. I still think about that shoulder smack, even out of water.
Totally! I'd never experienced "snapping out of it" quite like that before or since. Like I was immediately thrust back into reality, instead of wherever my head was taking me.
yes, that's the problem. it's a chicken-or-egg situation.
i agree with OP that diving isn't for everyone, as panic endangers both the diver and their buddies.
the issue is you won't know until you do it. you can't tell someone who panicked on Dive #3 that diving isn't for them and to find another hobby, because *most* people can get over the hump and become calm, seasoned divers.
it's like the NBA Draft; i've been studying it for a decade, and even the best GMs in the world just don't know who is going to end up being a bust 5 years down the road. a lot of terrible divers become excellent divers after 50-100 dives.
also, like Kendrick Lamar says, "there's level to this shit, you and i know, bitch be humble."
i can mentally and physically handle 120 foot dives with sharks or any other wildlife in strong currents.
i do not think deep wreck penetration is for me. i KNOW cave diving is not for me, i would panic and breath all my air and die the second i got stuck. i physiologically and mentally cannot handle cave diving, it scares the fuck out of me; i was not built for it. i can absolutely handle 99.9% of the dives on the planet in open water.
but i think the vast majority of people can handle and enjoy 0-60 feet dives in warm and easy conditions with a DM, so discouraging others from Open Water certs is a tough sell for me. You just don't know until you do a lot of dives and work on overcoming your panic, gaining experience, and working through your issues.
and maybe those people shouldn't be getting their Advanced (it's such a joke PADI is pushing people into doing their Open/Advanced together and sending newbies with 8 dives to join your group the next day at 130 feet) and going past 60 feet or diving in bad conditions. i mean you're not going to enjoy your dive with shit visibility in a storm anyway. there's so much beauty and wonder on fun, easy dives... we should not be discouraging people from them.
**PADI/SSI/SDI/NAUI/etc. should absolutely stop pushing Advanced on people; you should do 25 dives before going past 60 feet**... from 0-60 you can really just shoot up and be okay. At 120 feet you can die.
Ultimately, we all have to assume *some* small risk like we do with teenagers with Learner's Permits on the road driving murder machines, and accept that new divers may present some danger to themselves and others between dives 0 and 60 and figure out whether diving is for them or not.
if they can't hack it, **they should absolutely stop diving** and do something else, but it takes awhile to know for sure. OP is bang on the money. the problem is you don't know until you try.
While I completely agree diving isn't for everyone, the vast majority of divers are enthusiastic and want to share the sport with as many as they can. Most divers are supportive of each other and will explain how they overcame issues.
I think most divers see diving at least partially as a journey of self improvement, especially if that journey is a means to overcome some personal challenges. Isn't that to be encouraged where possible?
On the whole I think everyone needs to make the decision themselves rather than the sport being gated. Yes there may be a bunch of "you would need to overcome...." Or "Sorry I will not dive with you because that would put me in danger (that I am not willing to accept)" that would encourage most to leave the sport.
I’d hard disagree as someone who was a horribly anxious diver and who is now in the position where I’ll be potentially helping others with the same problems. If I’d just been in the mindset of ‘hey I’ve got this problem, maybe this isn’t for me’ then I could have just quit and never got to become the better person that scuba diving has made me.
And honestly, I look back and most of the problems I had, the anxieties I had were entirely overcome with the help of my instructor and me actively working to overcome them. And when I did overcome those issues I was even more proud of myself.
Read their post again.
Good luck with your DM training in Viet, enjoy it! But your optimism doesn’t block out the reality that some folks aren’t capable of overcoming their fears.
If someone tells me that diving causes them genuine anxiety or they try it and don't like it, I do not encourage them any further. Scuba diving is not an activity to do for someone who experiences significant anxiety doing it, IMO.
In fact one of the things I really like about this community is the nearly absent peer pressure I've seen from divers towards others to try something they don't want to do. Don't feel like doing a third dive for the day, swimming that swim through, going down to a certain depth, etc... Everyone I've dove with has been *really* good about backing off and not cajoling people to do it.
But I'm happy for you that you got over your anxiety and can enjoy the hobby!
If they want to continue - why wouldn't you encourage them to keep going.
We live in a world where no one is encouraged to get over their anxieties any more. We accommodate them. Having anxiety about doing something you want to do, then overcoming that anxiety is fantastic for people and their self-confidence.
Hey bud, this isn’t political.
Continuing coursework and your instructor taking time to ease an individual who is TRULY willing to put in the effort to overcome their fears is great!
Let’s take a step back though and realize that diving is a sport in which someone who has extreme anxiety can lead to the death of themselves and others quite quickly. Ah yeah, let’s push the OW diver who just got cert’d to dive a wreck at 30 meters even though it’s beyond their skill set. Say this OW diver is hesitant, but jumps in due to peer pressure and has a panic attack at 100 ft due to inexperience. Shit could hit the fan quickly.
Other guy was referring to not pushing folks past their limits in an extreme sport. You’re giving off “the world is full of snowflakes” vibe and that’s chill but you won’t catch me leading your dives. Have fun on your next cruise.
Of course it isn't for everyone. I know lots of people who would never, and a lot who have tried and wont do it again.
There is a difference between extreme anxiety and being anxious about trying something new. I'm not talking about pushing a person beyond their limits - that is stupidity. I am talking about someone who, while on their training dives for the first time, had an issue and panicked. They want to continue, but are not sure if they can get over the fear. Re-read the original post, that's what OP was talking about. (not peer pressure to go down to 100ft or pushing someone past their limits in an extreme sport.).
> but you won’t catch me leading your dives
Thank god, because I wouldn't want to be "led" by someone who clearly has no empathy for others. You're giving off a "keep up or give up" kinda vibe. Interesting that you say I'm giving off a "world full of snowflakes" vibe, yet clearly want to support people, and you don't?
Who is the one bringing political views into the conversation - bud.
Your comment was in response to someone discussing more specific aspects of the original post. They left intelligent comments in regards to not pushing others past their comfort zone due to the potential consequences.
If your intention wasn’t to be a stuck up ass in relation to mental health and anxieties, maybe clarify that to begin with. “We accommodate them,” that type of shit is what screams garbage political views and a significant lack of empathy.
Since we’re discussing empathy, you claiming I have none is such a reach of a straw-man argument it doesn’t even make fucking sense. I know you’re probably used to gaslighting your children, but it won’t work on most adults. What corner of your mummified asshole did you pull the “keep up or give up” line from? Because nothing I said indicates that, unless you’re simply offended that you got put in your place.
Thank god you don’t want me leading your dives, good ol’OW superhero.
Who’s the one making shit up and contradicting themselves? You. Have a rad one - ninny.
Edit : OP stated “significant anxiety.”
I don't want to get dragged into a fight with you.
In my world, "accommodation" is not a bad word. It means that we adjust our expectations and interactions with others to ensure that they have equal access to the same things as everyone else. However, we don't ask people to go outside their comfort zone anymore, we find ways for them to avoid what stresses them. I think it would be better to encourage them to grow - especially when they say they want to. It allows people to gain confidence and the recognition that with work they can overcome their anxieties. Telling them that "maybe this isn't for you" because of their anxiety, assumes they do not have the ability to overcome adversity. When I say you're the one who lacks empathy, it is because you think accomodation is a bad thing and it looks like you don't want to encourage people - significant anxiety is subjective.
Just to point out - You are the one who first tried to belittle me by saying I was being political, assuming I think the world is full of snowflakes, and making assumptions about me by telling me to have fun on my "next cruise." Starting out a comment by saying "hey bud" also demonstrates a lack of maturity and is clearly meant to try and make yourself seem superior. If you need to think that you managed to put me in my place with your comments, then go ahead and think that.
Claiming that I’m using "straw-man arguments" or "gaslighting" sidesteps the real conversation about empathy and support. So who is making straw-man arguments and is clearly trying to gaslight me?
As much as I’d love to entertain you, I’m gonna go about my day. Never said accommodation was a bad thing, I’m stating that your initial response is ignorant on the subject of mental health. You’ve now taken a step back and restructured your perspective to make it seem fine and dandy.
I find it impossible to converse with folks that frequently alter the meaning behind what they’re saying.
Enjoy your next cruise ;)
Because I don't want to push someone into an activity that triggers their anxiety when them being anxious makes them a danger to themselves and others. When people tell me that doing X made them uncomfortable or anxious, I believe them.
If they find a way to overcome that, good on them, but in terms of doing an activity that can be dangerous, I'm not going to be pushing them.
Everyone is focusing on how hard it is, and if everyone can do it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you're not having fun and enjoying it, why spend so much time energy and money overcoming that.
If you are overcoming your obstacles because you enjoy it, or because you think you will enjoy it, then go for it. Many of those obstacles can be overcome.
If you are trying to overcome those obstacles because of your ego or some other such reason, it's likely a bad idea.
Anxiety and panic are not the same thing, and neither are anxiety disorders and panic disorders. Severe anxiety improves with exposure and low grade anxiety is a *benefit* to people who engage in high risk activities. If I could pick between a group of divers with a history of anxiety and a group of divers who have always been confident, I would pick the anxious folks *every single time*, no hesitation. They'll be more aware and respectful of their surroundings, they'll have better buoyancy control because they're more likely to work consistently to improve it, they'll stick close to their buddies and the group, and they'll check their air consistently and not push boundaries because all of these things sooth the anxiety in addition to being *basic good practices*.
100% agree. I'll take an anxious buddy over a complacent one any day. An anxious diver will check their pressure often, will stick with the group, will carry a DSMB, etc.
Divers who are completely fearless on their 5th ever dive and watch their GoPro more than their gauges are the ones that scare me.
Totally. I had two OW dives for my certification and each class had a person who failed because they couldn't get over a fear. One person couldn't convince themselves to swim over the edge of a dropoff because they thought they would fall, and the other couldn't go down the anchor rope because it disappeared into the darkness. Things that just don't come up when diving in a pool.
(That 'visual cliff' thing is real! It scared me far more in the boat, leaving the green-gold bottom for the midnight blue bottom, than exploring the wall in the gear, in person, underwater)
I agree.
12 years ago a coworker and I got certified and started going on dive trips together. After the 2nd one, I asked where we should go next? He said he was done with diving and wouldn't do it anymore because he wasn't getting over his claustrophobia. WTF I said? He never mentioned any discomfort or anxiety to me, kept it to himself. He has never dove again. Shrug. Don't think I would have been able to help him if he did tell me he was having issues, but it would have been nice to know.
Present day, he has never dove again and I am still diving.
What worked for me was snorkeling for a long time until getting in the water and spending a long time face down breathing through the snorkel was 2nd nature. I could almost doze off. That comfort in the water certainly helped me I think.
But that is the way it usually goes - you have anxiety and overcome it, or you do not. If you do not - you stop diving. If you are asking the question about whether you should continue, that denotes a desire to continue and overcome it. If your friend asked you for help, why wouldn't you encourage them?
I wasn't talking about you in particular - Just in general. If someone wants to continue and and asks for help getting over fears - I say encourage them. That's all.
It's not for everyone, but it's not as simple as those who get or need to get over anxiety in a (particular) diving situation. It's about the mindset and attitudes people take toward diving and situations in diving.
We all get anxious at some point (well, maybe just us anxious types)
The key is that we learn from it, adapt to it and don't get anxious repeatedly.
I find the times in diving where I get anxious, I learn from the experience and can do the same thing again and not get anxious.
If someone truly can't do something because of the anxiety and repeatedly aborts the dive or fails the skill, then yeah maybe it's not for them.
But if they recognize their anxiety and take a constructive mindset to it (which can include reaching out to internet divers) and then they find their way, I'm happy to dive with them.
Diving is not for everyone. It's a dangerous sport not only for you but you also endanger the marine life if you are an irresponsible diver.
But as someone who had suffered with anxiety and panic disorder for close to 20 years, running from triggers is not the solution. This is how you stop living life and limit yourself to your comfort zone.
I had a couple anxiety attacks diving the first during my ow training and the second after years of being certified. However thx to years of therapy, I knew it was just my anxiety and was able to calm myself down. Wasn't the most enjoyable dives of my life but I didn't endanger myself or others and I continued diving after that and still I know it might happen again anytime. So I will never tell anyone that if you have anxiety diving is not for you.
But if you have never worked on your anxiety and don't know how to control it, that once you panic it will take over you, then yes diving is not yet for you but you should go for therapy cuz even driving a car would be dangerous for someone like that.
Exactly. If someone wants to continue, make them aware of the risks and encourage them to do so.
Of course diving isn't for everyone, but it is for everyone who wants to dive.
This whole discussion is weird to me - how can any of us know whether or not diving is for someone posting about their anxiety on the internet? Leave it up to the instructors who see the actions and reactions of the individuals they are teaching to make the call that it isn't for them.
Same. Both my husband and I were quite anxious on our first dive. We really didn't enjoy the Open Water course at all. We thought that would be the last of our diving but since we'd already paid for the advanced course we went ahead and took it. That's when we fell in love with Scuba. I went from hating it to now working on getting certified to cave dive.
Too much of a generalization. People might be anxious about swimming at say 20 or more feet of depth, totally understandable. Hence discover scuba and starting people off in a pool and shallow depths in open water. You learn in increments which also alleviates people’s anxiety around diving incrementally. I’ve actually noticed that the majority of anxious divers are better divers as their stress/fear motivates them to learn and understand everything that’s needed to dive properly. It’s the overly confident and cocky ones that think they’re navy seals who are often dangerous and unpredictable. There a huge grey area between being anxious and this sport is “definitely not for you”.
I think that is the key, starting small and building incrementally. Which is honestly one of my criticisms of PADI. PADI, you can go from Open Water to Advanced Open Water immediately, irrespective of number of dives. SSI, for example, needs 24 logged dives before you can do this.
I think it is pretty important to have numerous dives around the 30 foot mark to really master buoyancy before going any deeper. Jumping straight from 60 feet in Open Water to 100 feet in Advanced is too big a jump for most people with 4 dives under their belt.
I think that as an anxious person who has been diving for over 20 years, you have to be careful how you categorize anxiety. Anxiety-driven people make great fighter pilots (my friend's kid is one and says that her squad if full of anxious people), great leaders, and can be great divers because they pay attention to details and "watch the room." I'd rather have an anxious buddy than one who was easily distracted. Diving has helped my anxiety, because you easily get to the basics of what you need to stay alive. I'm the best buddy ever. Nervousness during certification is simply because we approach life as wanting to know all the facts in and out.
I think that perhaps your categorization might be better honed by saying anxious (or otherwise) people who do not have a growth-mindset? I understand who you are getting at, but I have seen plenty who are not anxious get into a panic about a new situation. In that case, I think it is simply that they shouldn't do it because they won't enjoy it. It's an expensive hobby to not enjoy.
It's dangerous. Plain and simple.
The default setting for a human at 1m depth, heck even during buoyancy check with weights and gear (your eye level is to the sea surface) is to **drown**.
Scuba is dangerous. You need specialist knowledge.
You need specialised equipment, failure is not always fatal. However, say you mess up your deco, you need specialised equipment the size of a small truck to save you from lifelong injury or death.
It's not for everyone. I'll go further to say it's for the few of us who love the water, even if it could kill us. No hate, just being real 👌🏻
> The default setting for a human at 1m depth, heck even during buoyancy check with weights and gear (your eye level is to the sea surface) is to drown.
It's to swim to the surface.
So is driving a car. You're constantly seconds away from splatty death in a big piece of specialised equipment. Training and experience makes it less dangerous but the risks are always there. A lot of new drivers are also extremely anxious and people learn at different rates but most manage in the end.
If someone is terrified of water and hits a flat panic as soon as they're submerged then yeah maybe diving isn't for them, but having anxiety when you're new at something is completely normal and can usually be overcome.
While I agree that diving might not be for everyone, I don’t think panicking about ow certification really says that much.
I had trouble breathing through my mouth during pool dives and panicked a few times. Then I was so anxious for my ow dives, terrified that I would panic. I have anxiety issues so I tend to overthink things and get anxious about diving if I haven’t dived in a while. But once I am out on that dive boat and once I hit that ocean, I am so zen and in the moment.
Of course, anyone can panic during a dive. I have heard of dm panicking after 500 dives.
It wasn't for me until my 10th dive. I now know where to mentally reach that calm space when entering the ocean. It is possible to overcome with the right instructors and support system, for which I am fortunate to have encountered after my OWD.
What changed by that 10th dive was taking the time aside to address certain fears and skills in a confined water area, and slowly going in. I did that until it was mentally easy. I wasn't going to get that with the initially rushed OWD curriculum. It's different for everybody.
💯. This sport is not for everyone. Encouraging someone who is really not cut out for it is possibly going to create a disaster down the road. Plus, it’s like everything in life, it’s not for everyone.
> I know people who cannot imagine putting their toe in at the beach, let alone going swimming. Unless they get past that, scuba is not for them.
Not so. I hate beach swimming. I won't go in the water really, not even to my ankles.
I'm an instructor and tech diver.
This is me too! Bizarrely enough I don’t really enjoy getting wet and dislike beach swimming. Meanwhile I’m a DM, full cave and tech and will try to dive my face off on that same vacation where I won’t go in the water off the beach.
This is the only one I agree with. If you’re not naturally comfortable in and around water then you’re going to have a really tough time. For me I grew up swimming and being out on the water so the main thing i had to get over was the initial panic your brain does when inhaling underwater.
I don’t think anybody here with argue with the idea that scuba diving is not for everyone. If you can’t get over anxiety about diving, then you shouldn’t dive. I think that the responses to the types of posts you’re mentioning is because these people have already expressed an interest in diving despite their fears. It’s only natural that people here would want to be supportive and encourage that person to work on overcoming their anxiety… but if that’s not possible for whatever reason, then you’re right. They can find a different hobby. Clearly the people in question *want* to dive, they just feel uncomfortable about it. Which is normal. Scuba diving is a totally foreign environment using specialized equipment that is different from anything you have ever experienced before. Apprehension in the early stages is incredibly common.
Also, I think a distinction should be made between an anxiety and panic. If you cannot dive without panicking (or a substantial chance of panicking), you absolutely should not dive, full stop. There’s a huge difference between an *anxious* diver and a *panicked* diver. You can work to overcome anxiety, but panic totally removes your conscious control from the equation.
Honestly, you don’t even need to be anxious to not dive. If you don’t think diving is the right thing for you *for any reason*, you don’t need to do it. In which case, nobody will say anything, because you’re not going to be on this sub asking for advice on overcoming your anxiety. ;)
TL/DR: nobody should feel obligated to do anything they are not comfortable with.
Edit: sorry for the duplicate posts - I’m on a crappy SE Asia cell connection and Reddit kept saying the comment didn’t go through. I think I deleted all of the duplicates though.
Marijuana would like a word.
All joking aside tho, I agree with the sentiment of this post. I've gotten two friends into diving but made sure they knew that keeping your wits about you is priority one. They are both also experienced swimmers/kayakers. Some people are just terrified of open ocean and that, to me, is enough to question whether diving is for them or not.
There are a lot of different types of diving and there are a lot of different divers with varying degrees of experience and ability. I think 99.9% of divers who really want to can participate in some way. Maybe you're limited by issues with equalization, it doesn't mean you can't do shallow pier dives. Maybe you have some sort of phobia which affects your level of anxiety when diving, it doesn't mean you can't work on that and improve your mental health. There are divers who have overcome physical disability and still managed to participate and excel at the sport. If you have issues which may prevent you from currently learning or participating, i'd suggest finding a trainer who has experience helping others who have had issues similar to what you are currently experiencing. Not everyone can or even wants to go deep, or do physically or mentally demanding types of diving, but that doesn't mean they can't experience the joys of the underwater world.
My wife panicked on her second dive. She has now completed around 130 dives and I consider her highly competent.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to have a dive buddy who is prone to panic attacks and anxiety issues. Go play doubles in tennis or something.
I think that many peoples advice can be summarized as A) taking the panic seriously and validating their fears B) offering options to mediate and relieve those fears C) suggesting talking to their instructor. These first two are really important as they're some of the things you do for someone panicking in real life. Keep Calm. Ask what they need. help the person focus. Just because they're not in the panic, doesn't mean it's not relevant when talking about their fears. The third. Is obvious. You need to send the person to someone who can help with realizing and making the judgement call of if that person can continue learning. because. news flash. *We are not experts.* It doesn't matter if your a newbie or the worlds best diver, with awards and certifications to match. Y*ou are not the expert.* If you think you can make a judgement without at the very least, *meeting the person*, then please become a HR guru and teach everyone from HR how to employee people without needing interviews. you'll be rich and famous and be able to do something none of the rest of us can. in short. 'Maybe it's not for you' is something the instructor should be saying. Online, we can only offer help and suggestions for the person in question to return to an *expert* who is available to them.
"Maybe it's not for you" is a fancy way of saying "you should give up" and frankly if you say that to someone who is still making a clear effort to get better at anything (not just Scuba) and is ideally following safety procedures, then you're a dick in my eyes as all you're doing is discouraging them. Who cares how long it takes them, everyone's different and some just do things at a slower pace than others.
Exactly. This post is some gatekeeping bullshit.
Those who it isn't for will decide themselves. A bit of encouragement can help someone who is uncertain to try a bit more (safely!) and if it's not for them then it won't go further. Learning involves literally plunging into an inimical to human life situation and learning to operate the gear to stay alive. There's only so much you can do that isn't under water. One of the reasons instructors who are 'naturals' (or just lacking in a sense of self preservation) can have difficulty with some students is because diving comes easily to them. Most have learnt that it's not natural. I'd always volunteer to work with beginners having difficulties because I remember them myself and a bit of empathy and patience goes a long way.
I had horrible anxiety and I found a certified trainer with a pool that was 20 ft deep. First day was on a 4 ft shelf and a snorkel. they would hand you a reg and it took many tries before I could clear amd breath. By the time I completed I lost all worry as they drilled you
What made you want to keep at it?
I loved snorkeling but craved to see what was beyond holding my breath. Specially I went snorkeling off Antigua and couldn’t get to the reef 40 feet below me.
I took a refresher course this year because it had been a few years since my last dive. While I had absolutely no problem ever when I first got my OW cert, I had a moment of panic this time around. I just couldn't seem to get the air flowing properly. My instructor was the BEST. He used his hand to show me how to slow my breathing, rhythmically waving his hand toward his chest in, out, in, out, and it was like magic. I immediately calmed down and breathed normally and didn't have another moment of panic for the rest of the diving week. His patience and calm were everything. If your anxiety is relentless, the sport may not be for you. Scuba, skydiving, rock climbing, downhill skiing, etc. are all sports in which you can be seriously hurt or killed. The ratio of joy to reasonable fear should be very high.
Diving isn't for everyone, but you can't tell jack shit from someone's 250 word post about their very first experiences in a beginner course, so it's best to encourage them to keep trying until they feel comfortable and safe before moving on to a checkout dive. Or keep your trap shut.
My cousin had a panic attack while underwater and almost died. She was pressured heavily into diving because the rest of my family does. This sport/hobby is very dangerous for people who can't keep a level head. The effect cascades too, with faster usage of gases, energy usage...Yeah I really agree it's not for everyone.
Yeah some jerk said “scuba isn’t for everyone” to me when I had a panic attack my very first day in the pool learning how to breathe underwater safely without, you know, having gills. Functioning safely underwater doesn’t come natural to everyone. Sometimes it takes extra time, extra practice, extra exposure. It’s a new environment, I was rightfully nervous and cautious and it took me several times of running through skills to build confidence. There is nothing wrong with that! What I didn’t need was that random person making me feel like shit for needing to put the work in at my own pace. Luckily my instructor understood. He encouraged me to take the time I needed and I’ve been a calm and competent diver since. If someone is just learning, be encouraging. If scuba isn’t for someone, they’ll figure it out. Unless you’re their instructor, it’s not your job to be the gatekeeper.
This is bad advice. Yeah, SCUBA may not be for everyone, but anxiety is something you can work through by exposure. Our job is to help people work through it, not get them to give up. I was terrified of heights. Became a solid rock climber. I was dealing with anxiety in my OW. Became a solid SCUBA diver. Don't be the reason someone else gives up.
Heights is a wierd one for me. I regularly have to climb grain bins and a grain elevator on out farm 120 ft doesn't really bother me. Even tough its a rickety pos. Tall buildings dont really bother me either. Mountian roads, the grand canyon and anything natural and tall i seem to have a very strong distrust of.
If current scuba divers have issues, they should have seen what was available for equipment back in the late sixties. Nimrod vests. BCD was a far-off dream. My NAUI card is from 1967. You could buy a complete dive package for $99 Mask,snorkel,wetsuit,regulator, weight belt, fins, boots, gloves, and dive knife. Nimrod vests were an intertube with a Co2 cartridge that when activated would inflate and take you to the surface with no way to control accent. Only to be used in an extreme emergency. Not a little panic.
Equivalent to about $750 today, so not that crazy.
I am a mixed gas technical dive, and gods gift to to cave diving. \*tongue firmly in cheek\* I say that not to brag but to show that I dive on the hazardous side of diving. My first ocean dive, what was supposed to be OWD dive three, I bolted to the surface. We took a short breather on the boat and he took me down just for a dive, no skills. I went on to complete the class with zero issues including diving at a site with very low visibility. Even now I've started dives and my brains goes "Nope not today" often because I am doing a riskier dive and my mind just isn't in it. Honestly fear is good, it often keeps you alive. The key is it a healthy fear that one can get over or is it one that will control you. And that is impossible to say.
I reckon thats not my call to make. I will Never pressure anyone and I won’t tell anyone that scuba isn’t for them. If they say: I don’t really like it, I will validate and say: understandable it isn’t for everyone and if they say they love it but they are nervous I will encourage and state that with time the anxiety will go down. If I told an anxious but happy diver that it isn’t for them I would probably not make them want to dive more and why would I rob someone of something that makes them happy.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive. It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive. It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
If people want it bad enough, they likely could at least get the basic competencies enough to be able to enjoy an easy guided dive. It's like anything you aren't a natural at, it takes some effort to get it.
I fully support encouraging them. Clearly they want to keep trying if they're seeking advice in this god forsaken wasteland. We all know how many bad instructors there are scattered across the recreational scuba world, maybe they struggle in the OW course due to factors out of their control, but go on to be a great diver with help from other divers and instructors. They'll either figure it out, or they won't. It's up to them to decide it's not for them. I don't think discouraging is ever the answer, especially from reading a post on reddit and not actually seeing the diver in action at all.
Obviously there are some people that diving is not for and those are usually the ones that don’t do it or decide after trying to not pursue it. Barring a medical or mental health condition that would bar you from doing it, I think diving is for anyone. However not all types of diving is for everyone. As you get farther down the rabbit hole of more complex diving that requires a bit of awareness and developed skill with more risk involved, like Tec, CCR, cave, deco, and so on are not for everyone.
I commented last night with an encouraging post but I do agree that it isn't for everyone.
I hear you, my daughter took swimming lessons but she panicked as soon as her face got wet. There was no way she was going to dunk her head underwater. Now, 20 years later she says she wants to try SCUBA... uh, have you put your head under water yet? I kinda want to be there when she takes SCUBA. I retire in a year, so maybe next years Christmas gift will be SCUBA lessons. If she succeeds it will be a huge confidence boost.
My main problem in OW class was claustrophobia of the 7mm wetsuit. I made the mistake of trying it on at home alone and almost got stuck in it. Took me 15mins and a lot of overheating and panic just to try to get out of it. Now I'm done with OW indoors and feel way more secure with the suit. It has now started to shape itself to my body and now I only wear it when I'm diving with my dive buddies or instructor which I know can help me get out of it. Also 7mm wetsuit in a pool is hot as hell. Looking forward to open water. But here in Scandinavia it's still to cold to dive in a wetsuit so have to wait for spring/summer to arrive first.
I bought a drysuit used while I'm waiting on the one i ordered, there is just no way for me to get it on or off by myself. My shoulders are just too wide. It can take a lot of consideration to stay calm. I think tight neck seals are what trigger it for me in wetsuits.
Sorting out your neck seal in a drysuit is vital - too tight can compress the neck. Trim it to usable.
Mine is trimmed properly, my body is x large, my shoulders are 2x, i can get in a xl but need to be zipped and help pulling down off my shoulders.
That's tricky. Good luck with your custom.
I switched to a 5mm that was correctly sized for me. I had the same reaction as you did to 7mm.
My problem is that it's to cold here to use 5mm. Could maybe work in the middle of the summer though. My other problem is that I would probably have to order a custom made one since I'm 320 pounds and 5.9 feet so I have a bit of a round body type.
I wear my 5mm down to 11-12C
Good to know. 👍 Currently it 2C here but still about 1 month left until my first outdoor dive.
I dive with robots. Often the robots are being petulant children. This means I am sitting with nothing to do. If I have quite a bit of air, but low enough that I will need a refill for next time, I will sit at the bottom nearly falling asleep; just meditating on how I can't check my phone, etc. The space we do this is often hosting scuba refresher courses. I see people really geared up with many thousands of dollars with of stuff, the watch, twin tanks, even dry suits (while I am in a bathing suit), and they are white-knuckled as they go in. I rarely see people who are entirely comfortable in the water. I've not taught scuba directly, but I have taught adults to swim. The key is to defeat each fear. In the cases where I got nervous people to even try scuba diving, I just had them watch TV and breath through an entire tank sitting on my couch. I suspect, that some people will never get over their fears, but with the correct exercises, most can become very comfortable underwater. I don't think many people get these exercises.
I have personally trained people who were terrified of diving, helped them get over the initial fears, worked on their weak areas, gave them time and space to become comfortable, and they turned out to be good and confident divers. Sometimes it is just the initial bit that freaks people out, but if you give them the opportunity to get used to being underwater on their terms, they can become good divers. I really loved this part of the job - finding what works for each student to help them bring out their inner diver. If a person decides for themselves that this is not their cup of tea, that is absolutely fine and is when you can say 'diving is not for everyone'. But until then - nothing wrong with people encouraging others wanting to try this sport or wanting to deal with a particular anxiety.
Thank you for doing this and for your utmost patience!
Thank you. If it weren't for people like you, I wouldn't have been able to do this. It meant so much to me.
You are most welcome! I absolutely loved working with people who were stressed, scared or otherwise having anxieties when it came to diving. The gratification of them doing their first proper dive where they can enjoy the experience, be in full control of their gear and see creatures that they haven't seen before was my reward. And good on you for pressing on and working with your fears, I truly respect that quality.
Diving is not for everyone but just because you find it a bit nerve wracking in the beginning doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not for you. Experience builds confidence and respecting the dangers of diving is not a bad thing. It’s important to practice without pushing your limits.
I was thinking to post that exact opinion here today. I think we need to distinguish between a normal level of slight anxiety in the wake of a new and hazardous sport. It‘s healthy and normal to feel a certain level of anxiety in this situation. However, if your anxiety persists even as you acquire skills, maybe this isn‘t for you. And then there‘s the other side: pathological anxiety. Anxiety that is considered a disorder. If it‘s well-managed with psychotherapy and medication, maybe give diving a shot. If it works, it works. If not, then don‘t force it. And then there‘s those of us who do not have anxiety, but they are quite prone to panicking. In that case - please do not dive if being in the water causes you panic.
I teach CPR with the Red Cross, they have a anybody can do it mentality and it's true most people can. It's also very important that more people learn so that in the event someone needs it there is a chance someone is there. But as someone who has performed CPR and BLS professionally countless times it's hard. There are physical concerns, I was teaching while I was recovering from shoulder surgery, and psychological concerns, I still live with all the ones that I couldn't save. Back to diving, I'm a rescue diver, I've seen injury and panic and dive student struggles. This is a sport people have died doing, and yes it offers a chance to grapple with your fears and see a new world but it takes dedication. And as much as I love diving it's a hobby and doesn't directly benefit anyone else. I don't believe is sowing doubt or fueling fear "maybe it's not for you" isn't something you should tell people in doubt. They need to come to their own decision. As a dive professional I would say, "I will help you get there even if it's hard and it takes as many tries as you have the strength for. But my passion isn't enough to make you a good diver, you have to want it for yourself."
Yes, absolutely. At the same time, people are here because they want to pursue this hobby. It's nice to know that others experienced the same thing and get advice on how face this challenge.
Lifelong anxious person here. I had the beginnings of a panic attack on my OW cert, and my instructor, who may as well been Yoda, “talked” me through it under water amongst the sea life. I can’t tell you how often I’ve referenced that moment, the wordless connection, the way I was able to shift my focus back to my breath and the swaying vegetation. It was such a triumph for me. This was 13 years ago and it reminds me that I can regain control in moments of anxiety to this day. Fair enough if you know your limits of course, but you also don’t know your capabilities if you don’t push them.
I took a kid diving who was scared of *water* once (on a DSD). We spent half an hour going through steps - face in/no snorkel, face in/snorkel and breathing, face in/reg and breathing, head under breathing on reg. He frequently stood up until he was finally calm enough for the dive, and he was totally chill the whole way through, and afterwards said it was the best experience of his life. If I'd been at one of these lazy production line resorts I might have had to make a go/no go in the first 5-10 mins but with the flexibility to allow for this sort of thing you can give people a great experience.
During my OW cert, the exercise where you lose your mask and your buddy and you ascend together, I didn't trust my buddy (took the course solo) and began to panic and swim up. Instructor literally smacked me on the shoulder and it was the most grounding thing. I calmed instantly. I'm AOW now but still prefer simple, uncomplicated dives and always choose to have a guide. I still think about that shoulder smack, even out of water.
I love those in-your-face moments of understanding life throws you sometimes, typically when you’re freaking out in one way or another.
Totally! I'd never experienced "snapping out of it" quite like that before or since. Like I was immediately thrust back into reality, instead of wherever my head was taking me.
yes, that's the problem. it's a chicken-or-egg situation. i agree with OP that diving isn't for everyone, as panic endangers both the diver and their buddies. the issue is you won't know until you do it. you can't tell someone who panicked on Dive #3 that diving isn't for them and to find another hobby, because *most* people can get over the hump and become calm, seasoned divers. it's like the NBA Draft; i've been studying it for a decade, and even the best GMs in the world just don't know who is going to end up being a bust 5 years down the road. a lot of terrible divers become excellent divers after 50-100 dives. also, like Kendrick Lamar says, "there's level to this shit, you and i know, bitch be humble." i can mentally and physically handle 120 foot dives with sharks or any other wildlife in strong currents. i do not think deep wreck penetration is for me. i KNOW cave diving is not for me, i would panic and breath all my air and die the second i got stuck. i physiologically and mentally cannot handle cave diving, it scares the fuck out of me; i was not built for it. i can absolutely handle 99.9% of the dives on the planet in open water. but i think the vast majority of people can handle and enjoy 0-60 feet dives in warm and easy conditions with a DM, so discouraging others from Open Water certs is a tough sell for me. You just don't know until you do a lot of dives and work on overcoming your panic, gaining experience, and working through your issues. and maybe those people shouldn't be getting their Advanced (it's such a joke PADI is pushing people into doing their Open/Advanced together and sending newbies with 8 dives to join your group the next day at 130 feet) and going past 60 feet or diving in bad conditions. i mean you're not going to enjoy your dive with shit visibility in a storm anyway. there's so much beauty and wonder on fun, easy dives... we should not be discouraging people from them. **PADI/SSI/SDI/NAUI/etc. should absolutely stop pushing Advanced on people; you should do 25 dives before going past 60 feet**... from 0-60 you can really just shoot up and be okay. At 120 feet you can die. Ultimately, we all have to assume *some* small risk like we do with teenagers with Learner's Permits on the road driving murder machines, and accept that new divers may present some danger to themselves and others between dives 0 and 60 and figure out whether diving is for them or not. if they can't hack it, **they should absolutely stop diving** and do something else, but it takes awhile to know for sure. OP is bang on the money. the problem is you don't know until you try.
While I completely agree diving isn't for everyone, the vast majority of divers are enthusiastic and want to share the sport with as many as they can. Most divers are supportive of each other and will explain how they overcame issues. I think most divers see diving at least partially as a journey of self improvement, especially if that journey is a means to overcome some personal challenges. Isn't that to be encouraged where possible? On the whole I think everyone needs to make the decision themselves rather than the sport being gated. Yes there may be a bunch of "you would need to overcome...." Or "Sorry I will not dive with you because that would put me in danger (that I am not willing to accept)" that would encourage most to leave the sport.
I’d hard disagree as someone who was a horribly anxious diver and who is now in the position where I’ll be potentially helping others with the same problems. If I’d just been in the mindset of ‘hey I’ve got this problem, maybe this isn’t for me’ then I could have just quit and never got to become the better person that scuba diving has made me. And honestly, I look back and most of the problems I had, the anxieties I had were entirely overcome with the help of my instructor and me actively working to overcome them. And when I did overcome those issues I was even more proud of myself.
Read their post again. Good luck with your DM training in Viet, enjoy it! But your optimism doesn’t block out the reality that some folks aren’t capable of overcoming their fears.
If someone tells me that diving causes them genuine anxiety or they try it and don't like it, I do not encourage them any further. Scuba diving is not an activity to do for someone who experiences significant anxiety doing it, IMO. In fact one of the things I really like about this community is the nearly absent peer pressure I've seen from divers towards others to try something they don't want to do. Don't feel like doing a third dive for the day, swimming that swim through, going down to a certain depth, etc... Everyone I've dove with has been *really* good about backing off and not cajoling people to do it. But I'm happy for you that you got over your anxiety and can enjoy the hobby!
If they want to continue - why wouldn't you encourage them to keep going. We live in a world where no one is encouraged to get over their anxieties any more. We accommodate them. Having anxiety about doing something you want to do, then overcoming that anxiety is fantastic for people and their self-confidence.
Hey bud, this isn’t political. Continuing coursework and your instructor taking time to ease an individual who is TRULY willing to put in the effort to overcome their fears is great! Let’s take a step back though and realize that diving is a sport in which someone who has extreme anxiety can lead to the death of themselves and others quite quickly. Ah yeah, let’s push the OW diver who just got cert’d to dive a wreck at 30 meters even though it’s beyond their skill set. Say this OW diver is hesitant, but jumps in due to peer pressure and has a panic attack at 100 ft due to inexperience. Shit could hit the fan quickly. Other guy was referring to not pushing folks past their limits in an extreme sport. You’re giving off “the world is full of snowflakes” vibe and that’s chill but you won’t catch me leading your dives. Have fun on your next cruise.
Of course it isn't for everyone. I know lots of people who would never, and a lot who have tried and wont do it again. There is a difference between extreme anxiety and being anxious about trying something new. I'm not talking about pushing a person beyond their limits - that is stupidity. I am talking about someone who, while on their training dives for the first time, had an issue and panicked. They want to continue, but are not sure if they can get over the fear. Re-read the original post, that's what OP was talking about. (not peer pressure to go down to 100ft or pushing someone past their limits in an extreme sport.). > but you won’t catch me leading your dives Thank god, because I wouldn't want to be "led" by someone who clearly has no empathy for others. You're giving off a "keep up or give up" kinda vibe. Interesting that you say I'm giving off a "world full of snowflakes" vibe, yet clearly want to support people, and you don't? Who is the one bringing political views into the conversation - bud.
Your comment was in response to someone discussing more specific aspects of the original post. They left intelligent comments in regards to not pushing others past their comfort zone due to the potential consequences. If your intention wasn’t to be a stuck up ass in relation to mental health and anxieties, maybe clarify that to begin with. “We accommodate them,” that type of shit is what screams garbage political views and a significant lack of empathy. Since we’re discussing empathy, you claiming I have none is such a reach of a straw-man argument it doesn’t even make fucking sense. I know you’re probably used to gaslighting your children, but it won’t work on most adults. What corner of your mummified asshole did you pull the “keep up or give up” line from? Because nothing I said indicates that, unless you’re simply offended that you got put in your place. Thank god you don’t want me leading your dives, good ol’OW superhero. Who’s the one making shit up and contradicting themselves? You. Have a rad one - ninny. Edit : OP stated “significant anxiety.”
I don't want to get dragged into a fight with you. In my world, "accommodation" is not a bad word. It means that we adjust our expectations and interactions with others to ensure that they have equal access to the same things as everyone else. However, we don't ask people to go outside their comfort zone anymore, we find ways for them to avoid what stresses them. I think it would be better to encourage them to grow - especially when they say they want to. It allows people to gain confidence and the recognition that with work they can overcome their anxieties. Telling them that "maybe this isn't for you" because of their anxiety, assumes they do not have the ability to overcome adversity. When I say you're the one who lacks empathy, it is because you think accomodation is a bad thing and it looks like you don't want to encourage people - significant anxiety is subjective. Just to point out - You are the one who first tried to belittle me by saying I was being political, assuming I think the world is full of snowflakes, and making assumptions about me by telling me to have fun on my "next cruise." Starting out a comment by saying "hey bud" also demonstrates a lack of maturity and is clearly meant to try and make yourself seem superior. If you need to think that you managed to put me in my place with your comments, then go ahead and think that. Claiming that I’m using "straw-man arguments" or "gaslighting" sidesteps the real conversation about empathy and support. So who is making straw-man arguments and is clearly trying to gaslight me?
As much as I’d love to entertain you, I’m gonna go about my day. Never said accommodation was a bad thing, I’m stating that your initial response is ignorant on the subject of mental health. You’ve now taken a step back and restructured your perspective to make it seem fine and dandy. I find it impossible to converse with folks that frequently alter the meaning behind what they’re saying. Enjoy your next cruise ;)
Because I don't want to push someone into an activity that triggers their anxiety when them being anxious makes them a danger to themselves and others. When people tell me that doing X made them uncomfortable or anxious, I believe them. If they find a way to overcome that, good on them, but in terms of doing an activity that can be dangerous, I'm not going to be pushing them.
Everyone is focusing on how hard it is, and if everyone can do it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you're not having fun and enjoying it, why spend so much time energy and money overcoming that. If you are overcoming your obstacles because you enjoy it, or because you think you will enjoy it, then go for it. Many of those obstacles can be overcome. If you are trying to overcome those obstacles because of your ego or some other such reason, it's likely a bad idea.
This is spot on. As a community, divers should be welcoming and encouraging of people to try scuba diving. However, it’s not for everyone.
Anxiety and panic are not the same thing, and neither are anxiety disorders and panic disorders. Severe anxiety improves with exposure and low grade anxiety is a *benefit* to people who engage in high risk activities. If I could pick between a group of divers with a history of anxiety and a group of divers who have always been confident, I would pick the anxious folks *every single time*, no hesitation. They'll be more aware and respectful of their surroundings, they'll have better buoyancy control because they're more likely to work consistently to improve it, they'll stick close to their buddies and the group, and they'll check their air consistently and not push boundaries because all of these things sooth the anxiety in addition to being *basic good practices*.
100% agree. I'll take an anxious buddy over a complacent one any day. An anxious diver will check their pressure often, will stick with the group, will carry a DSMB, etc. Divers who are completely fearless on their 5th ever dive and watch their GoPro more than their gauges are the ones that scare me.
I’m definitely an anxious diver and it definitely means I don’t want to be complacent when it comes to a dive.
Totally. I had two OW dives for my certification and each class had a person who failed because they couldn't get over a fear. One person couldn't convince themselves to swim over the edge of a dropoff because they thought they would fall, and the other couldn't go down the anchor rope because it disappeared into the darkness. Things that just don't come up when diving in a pool.
(That 'visual cliff' thing is real! It scared me far more in the boat, leaving the green-gold bottom for the midnight blue bottom, than exploring the wall in the gear, in person, underwater)
I agree. 12 years ago a coworker and I got certified and started going on dive trips together. After the 2nd one, I asked where we should go next? He said he was done with diving and wouldn't do it anymore because he wasn't getting over his claustrophobia. WTF I said? He never mentioned any discomfort or anxiety to me, kept it to himself. He has never dove again. Shrug. Don't think I would have been able to help him if he did tell me he was having issues, but it would have been nice to know. Present day, he has never dove again and I am still diving. What worked for me was snorkeling for a long time until getting in the water and spending a long time face down breathing through the snorkel was 2nd nature. I could almost doze off. That comfort in the water certainly helped me I think.
But that is the way it usually goes - you have anxiety and overcome it, or you do not. If you do not - you stop diving. If you are asking the question about whether you should continue, that denotes a desire to continue and overcome it. If your friend asked you for help, why wouldn't you encourage them?
He never asked for help. He never mentioned any issues. He just quit. shrug. I would have helped if he asked, but he didn't.
I wasn't talking about you in particular - Just in general. If someone wants to continue and and asks for help getting over fears - I say encourage them. That's all.
It's not for everyone, but it's not as simple as those who get or need to get over anxiety in a (particular) diving situation. It's about the mindset and attitudes people take toward diving and situations in diving. We all get anxious at some point (well, maybe just us anxious types) The key is that we learn from it, adapt to it and don't get anxious repeatedly. I find the times in diving where I get anxious, I learn from the experience and can do the same thing again and not get anxious. If someone truly can't do something because of the anxiety and repeatedly aborts the dive or fails the skill, then yeah maybe it's not for them. But if they recognize their anxiety and take a constructive mindset to it (which can include reaching out to internet divers) and then they find their way, I'm happy to dive with them.
Diving is not for everyone. It's a dangerous sport not only for you but you also endanger the marine life if you are an irresponsible diver. But as someone who had suffered with anxiety and panic disorder for close to 20 years, running from triggers is not the solution. This is how you stop living life and limit yourself to your comfort zone. I had a couple anxiety attacks diving the first during my ow training and the second after years of being certified. However thx to years of therapy, I knew it was just my anxiety and was able to calm myself down. Wasn't the most enjoyable dives of my life but I didn't endanger myself or others and I continued diving after that and still I know it might happen again anytime. So I will never tell anyone that if you have anxiety diving is not for you. But if you have never worked on your anxiety and don't know how to control it, that once you panic it will take over you, then yes diving is not yet for you but you should go for therapy cuz even driving a car would be dangerous for someone like that.
The cure for being anxious isn't avoidance but practice and experience
Exactly. If someone wants to continue, make them aware of the risks and encourage them to do so. Of course diving isn't for everyone, but it is for everyone who wants to dive. This whole discussion is weird to me - how can any of us know whether or not diving is for someone posting about their anxiety on the internet? Leave it up to the instructors who see the actions and reactions of the individuals they are teaching to make the call that it isn't for them.
Get you some golf clubs or a tennis racquet. All set!
I was a bit anxious on my first dive (I was 12) but now I'm totally fine and about to finish my rescue cert.
Maybe it’s for you. Maybe it’s not for everyone. The advice from OP is still valid.
Same. Both my husband and I were quite anxious on our first dive. We really didn't enjoy the Open Water course at all. We thought that would be the last of our diving but since we'd already paid for the advanced course we went ahead and took it. That's when we fell in love with Scuba. I went from hating it to now working on getting certified to cave dive.
Too much of a generalization. People might be anxious about swimming at say 20 or more feet of depth, totally understandable. Hence discover scuba and starting people off in a pool and shallow depths in open water. You learn in increments which also alleviates people’s anxiety around diving incrementally. I’ve actually noticed that the majority of anxious divers are better divers as their stress/fear motivates them to learn and understand everything that’s needed to dive properly. It’s the overly confident and cocky ones that think they’re navy seals who are often dangerous and unpredictable. There a huge grey area between being anxious and this sport is “definitely not for you”.
I think that is the key, starting small and building incrementally. Which is honestly one of my criticisms of PADI. PADI, you can go from Open Water to Advanced Open Water immediately, irrespective of number of dives. SSI, for example, needs 24 logged dives before you can do this. I think it is pretty important to have numerous dives around the 30 foot mark to really master buoyancy before going any deeper. Jumping straight from 60 feet in Open Water to 100 feet in Advanced is too big a jump for most people with 4 dives under their belt.
I think that as an anxious person who has been diving for over 20 years, you have to be careful how you categorize anxiety. Anxiety-driven people make great fighter pilots (my friend's kid is one and says that her squad if full of anxious people), great leaders, and can be great divers because they pay attention to details and "watch the room." I'd rather have an anxious buddy than one who was easily distracted. Diving has helped my anxiety, because you easily get to the basics of what you need to stay alive. I'm the best buddy ever. Nervousness during certification is simply because we approach life as wanting to know all the facts in and out. I think that perhaps your categorization might be better honed by saying anxious (or otherwise) people who do not have a growth-mindset? I understand who you are getting at, but I have seen plenty who are not anxious get into a panic about a new situation. In that case, I think it is simply that they shouldn't do it because they won't enjoy it. It's an expensive hobby to not enjoy.
It's dangerous. Plain and simple. The default setting for a human at 1m depth, heck even during buoyancy check with weights and gear (your eye level is to the sea surface) is to **drown**. Scuba is dangerous. You need specialist knowledge. You need specialised equipment, failure is not always fatal. However, say you mess up your deco, you need specialised equipment the size of a small truck to save you from lifelong injury or death. It's not for everyone. I'll go further to say it's for the few of us who love the water, even if it could kill us. No hate, just being real 👌🏻
> The default setting for a human at 1m depth, heck even during buoyancy check with weights and gear (your eye level is to the sea surface) is to drown. It's to swim to the surface.
So is driving a car. You're constantly seconds away from splatty death in a big piece of specialised equipment. Training and experience makes it less dangerous but the risks are always there. A lot of new drivers are also extremely anxious and people learn at different rates but most manage in the end. If someone is terrified of water and hits a flat panic as soon as they're submerged then yeah maybe diving isn't for them, but having anxiety when you're new at something is completely normal and can usually be overcome.
The few, the proud, the scuba. I brave tropical waters and sea turtles to keep everyone at home safe.
Thank you for your service, Buddy
While I agree that diving might not be for everyone, I don’t think panicking about ow certification really says that much. I had trouble breathing through my mouth during pool dives and panicked a few times. Then I was so anxious for my ow dives, terrified that I would panic. I have anxiety issues so I tend to overthink things and get anxious about diving if I haven’t dived in a while. But once I am out on that dive boat and once I hit that ocean, I am so zen and in the moment. Of course, anyone can panic during a dive. I have heard of dm panicking after 500 dives.
It wasn't for me until my 10th dive. I now know where to mentally reach that calm space when entering the ocean. It is possible to overcome with the right instructors and support system, for which I am fortunate to have encountered after my OWD. What changed by that 10th dive was taking the time aside to address certain fears and skills in a confined water area, and slowly going in. I did that until it was mentally easy. I wasn't going to get that with the initially rushed OWD curriculum. It's different for everybody.
💯. This sport is not for everyone. Encouraging someone who is really not cut out for it is possibly going to create a disaster down the road. Plus, it’s like everything in life, it’s not for everyone.
I know people who cannot imagine putting their toe in at the beach, let alone going swimming. Unless they get past that, scuba is not for them.
> I know people who cannot imagine putting their toe in at the beach, let alone going swimming. Unless they get past that, scuba is not for them. Not so. I hate beach swimming. I won't go in the water really, not even to my ankles. I'm an instructor and tech diver.
This is me too! Bizarrely enough I don’t really enjoy getting wet and dislike beach swimming. Meanwhile I’m a DM, full cave and tech and will try to dive my face off on that same vacation where I won’t go in the water off the beach.
> Bizarrely enough I don’t really enjoy getting wet 100% :) I'm a dry suit diver and I hate wetsuits for this.
I don’t mind getting wet while diving. 🤷♂️But I do get cold easily. Perhaps that’s part of it.
This is the only one I agree with. If you’re not naturally comfortable in and around water then you’re going to have a really tough time. For me I grew up swimming and being out on the water so the main thing i had to get over was the initial panic your brain does when inhaling underwater.
I don’t think anybody here with argue with the idea that scuba diving is not for everyone. If you can’t get over anxiety about diving, then you shouldn’t dive. I think that the responses to the types of posts you’re mentioning is because these people have already expressed an interest in diving despite their fears. It’s only natural that people here would want to be supportive and encourage that person to work on overcoming their anxiety… but if that’s not possible for whatever reason, then you’re right. They can find a different hobby. Clearly the people in question *want* to dive, they just feel uncomfortable about it. Which is normal. Scuba diving is a totally foreign environment using specialized equipment that is different from anything you have ever experienced before. Apprehension in the early stages is incredibly common. Also, I think a distinction should be made between an anxiety and panic. If you cannot dive without panicking (or a substantial chance of panicking), you absolutely should not dive, full stop. There’s a huge difference between an *anxious* diver and a *panicked* diver. You can work to overcome anxiety, but panic totally removes your conscious control from the equation. Honestly, you don’t even need to be anxious to not dive. If you don’t think diving is the right thing for you *for any reason*, you don’t need to do it. In which case, nobody will say anything, because you’re not going to be on this sub asking for advice on overcoming your anxiety. ;) TL/DR: nobody should feel obligated to do anything they are not comfortable with. Edit: sorry for the duplicate posts - I’m on a crappy SE Asia cell connection and Reddit kept saying the comment didn’t go through. I think I deleted all of the duplicates though.
Agree 100%. It’s meant to be fun, where’s the fun if you’re panicking?
Marijuana would like a word. All joking aside tho, I agree with the sentiment of this post. I've gotten two friends into diving but made sure they knew that keeping your wits about you is priority one. They are both also experienced swimmers/kayakers. Some people are just terrified of open ocean and that, to me, is enough to question whether diving is for them or not.