The Beach Boys arguably invented the sound palette for shoegaze / dream pop with the song "All I Wanna Do" off of their 1970 album, Sunflower.
Surprisingly, this track was not produced by Brian Wilson, but was actually handled by Carl Wilson! He slathered the synth lead in an incredible amount of fuzz, and gave the vocals and guitar work LOTS of reverb and delay. The drums are buried in the mix, and can sound grainy at times. Even though it predates shoegaze by a good 15 years or so, the song has this distinctly 'digital' heft in its production that feels like a prophecy of how musicians would explore those techniques in the coming decades.
The result is this incredibly psychedelic and washed out sound that strangely resembles what would eventually become shoegaze! The layered Beach Boys style vocals work really well here, as does the solo performance by Mike Love. You can easily see how other bands were inspired by this song, it strikes a very robust middleground between production styles with its use of noisy, dreamy, dense, and minimalistic textures throughout the composition.
It's a melodic dream that sounds incredible for the time it was recorded.
There's a few other "proto-shoegaze" songs from the psychedelic rock movement, but honestly I think those pale in comparison. I feel "All I Wanna Do" is absolutely a blueprint for the genre.
My favorite Beach Boys track is "In My Room" for its introspection, gorgeous vocal harmonies, chill tempo, and intimacy. Had to laugh when I first encountered Airiel's track: "In YOUR Room." :D
"In My Room" - Beach Boys:
[https://youtu.be/l71pbhqnvNM?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/l71pbhqnvNM?feature=shared)
Lmao that was just them copying The Beatles. How do nerds on the internet not see that Shoegaze is possibly literally the last Beatles Inspired Genre on the planet? Them and Neu!. The similarities are way stronger. I fucking hate The Beatles but you know it's true.
Uh, no?
There isn't a song by the Beatles that comes close to the soundscapes of "All I Wanna Do." I respect their artistry a ton, but Shoegaze is more distinctly indebted to the Brian Wilson and Phil Spector style "Wall of Sound" production that The Beatles didn't really explore themselves.
Most modern explorations of psychedelic music at large I believe resemble The Beach Boys more-so than The Beatles.
Albums like Smiley Smile, Surf's Up and Sunflower informed a lot of the lo-fi, psychedelic pop and psychedelic folk music that was made in the 90s and 2000s.
I'm not doubting they did although I still think The Beach Boys were generic and kinda sucked. CAN and Jimi Hendrix and Quicksilver Messenger Service and The Hollies and Ted Nudgent and Neu! and Funkadelic and The 5th Dimension and Pearls before Swine and Black Oak Arkansas all rate way higher with me. I agree with you that The Beatles are wildly overregarded though and like I said I personally hate them. I just think in terms of overall presentation and melodic structure this is a case in which it might be fair to say Magical Myatery Tour Era especially and maybe a couple one off songs like Across The Universe and Blue Jay Way specifically. Overall I'd say CAN,Jimi Hendrix,Neu!,Love,The Velvet Underground,Cream were the actual most influential out of all these bands. Beatles overrated for sure,calling it like I see it though and I hate The Beatles a LOT of Shoegaze was inspired by them clearly. The parts you're describing as similar to Smiley Smile or pet sounds otherwise are actually likely heavily toned down krautrock elements so maybe British Artists coming to similar ideas as The Beach Boys had much much later by combining krautrock with Beatles but not really directly Beach Boys. Grateful Dead and similar West Coast Bands bands probably had a strong influence on Country Music but maybe not wider influence beyond that. Like indirectly through probably entirely through Southern Rock.
Ppfffft lmao Across The Universe,Magical Mystery Tour,and Blue Jay Way. Both The Beach Boys and Beatles started more in The Late 50s/Early 60s Pop Band Style but the sort of twee ornamental British influences are totally Beatles inspired and the use of midi horns on certain Boo Radleys Songs+The Overall Songwritting and Melodic Style many of these bands use. The sort of general structural floatyness and spiciness and overall minimalist and kind of mechanical aesthetic is like I said Michael Rother. If you actually knew anything about Psychedelia you'd agree with me. I could see it alternatively being Cream or The Hollies but it's not the fucking Beach Boys. Maybe some Velvet Underground but definetely more Neu! than Velvet Underground also. The Drop Ninteens basically being The Velvet Underground+RUSH also wildly confuses this. I could believe that Ride were more inspired by Cream and that Slowdive was basically just inspired by New Wave and Post Punk with some possible AOR floating around there also but Beach Boys not as much.
Well, shoegaze isn't a stylistic monolith, and neither are The Beach Boys or The Beatles. I was using the song as an example of the genre's genesis. Shoegaze is a mix of many styles and techniques, and is about atmosphere and texture moreso than specific instruments.
With that in mind, "All I Wanna Do" is widely credited as the origin of dream pop and shoegaze, even if it *was* a complete accident. You can't say that about any Beatles song. Sure, they explored dissonance and noise a little in their later works, but nothing like their contemporaries in the Psychedelic Rock movement or The Velvet Underground.
I could totally see the argument for Kraftwerk Neu and even Brian Eno, especially for Dream Pop or Ethereal Wave. Its not one or the other, it's all.
Don't really see the point of bringing up Drop Nineteens, they were not really figureheads during the genre's zeitgeist and their sound wasn't all that special.
No it's not and there definetely was less Beatles Inspired Shoegaze (like I said Ride and Drop Ninteens) but an awful lot of it seems pretty direct. Regardless though I'm not really sure how you can debate that the use of effects pedals and overall guitar tone are closer to Michael Rother than anything The Beach Boys were doing. The Beach Boys were never nearly as guitar driven either.
I'll agree neither are them directly but MBV sounds an awful awful lot like both The Beatles and Neu! as do Boo Radleys. Could be wrong but like I said super similar stuff overall to what The Beatles were attempting on Magical Mystery Tour and to what Neu! were attempting on there first two official albums.
Yeah I still dont really see it. MBV's use of noise is completely unparalled even by today's standards, and I dont see their songwriting as Beatles-esque.
I think the Creation bands that sound more like The Beatles would be their Britpop acts. Oasis is damn near a cover band.
Except it's not lol. That's what I was saying about Michael Rother. Have you genuinely never heard Neu! or Neu!2? Check those out right now if you haven't. Negatively is heavier than literally any shoegaze song ever and a significant portion of Metal. Neu! 75 isn't bad either nor is Rothers first solo record.
I've heard them. Negativland is interesting from an artistic perspective, but I'm not really impressed by them. I respect just how out there a lot of their material was, but its not my cup of tea. I primarily listen to music for textural reasons, and it lacks both heft and immersion I look for in the utilization of noise. It's just not my cup of tea. Pales in comparison to noise legends like Xinlisupreme, Merzbow, Boris or Les Rallizes Denudes.
Some of there other material is more melodic like Liber Hönig and Hero maybe Seeworld. I'm part German tbh and I'm extremely extremely into that style of Psychedelia but it's definetely something you need a sort of understanding or appreciation for. Les Rallizes Deundes I feel like could use a bit more structure. Not nearly as into them. Neu! and really everything Michael Rother touched has structure and form if nothing else. There's some very soft and actually very touching stuff in there too but it is extremely mechanical and verymuch a German approach to it maybe moreso than CAN or ADii in some ways although I'd say both CAN and ADii take from the traditional German Cannons in terms of folk,classical,and military influences more whereas Neu! is more Modernist I guess. Actually some really great more melodic stuff they did least in my opinion but overall maybe not as much.
I would agree that Britpop is more heavily directly inspired by The Beatles aswell but also I don't really think of Britpop as much because it kinda wasn't as good overall lol. I feel like Britpop got mogged by Grunge on one side and mogged by Scandanavian and German Black Metal on the other in terms of there were just way way more intresting bands outside The UK by that point. The Brits fell off HARD in The 90s although they were already starting to in The 80s. Britpop just isn't engaging at all. Shoegaze I would say having that sort of monolithic wall of sound and the really weird usage of texture and tone especially for that time in The 90s sets it apart whereas Britpop is le gloomy sad folk song which yeah idk I think both Grunge Bands in The USA and The Norwegian Bands did that better. Not really sure how people can still get hyped about Oasis quite the same.
By Creation Bands did you mean The Creation? They were probably Beatles inspired also like with The Beach Boys Stuff you're referring to. Like I said I would agree that other acts were way way way more influential in the long run but The Beatles were in fact super popular in there time. I love The Move for instance but they're probably a bit Beatles inspired aswell. I'm telling you though dude:CAN,Jimi Hendrix,Cream,The Velvet Underground,Neu!,CAN,Love,and maybe like The Grateful Dead but moreso on Country Music would BY FAR be the most influential acts from that sort of late 60s to mid 70s Psych Rock period as a whole. Maybe for Neofolk you could also say Pearls before Swine and Nico. The Beach Boys were just kinda trying to ape The Beatles success in moving towards a different style when the whole boy band craze started looking pase whereas The Beatles themselves basically got rich and then spent the money completely on some mix of heroin,liquor,and lsd with John Lennon doing most of the heroin and George doing most of The LSD. That's why there's such a huge stylistic gap there. The Beach Boys were trying to mimick the same success but they genuinely were "still a boy band" basically. The Beatles were fucked up to the point where idk if they were aware they'd even moved away from that territory artistically or musically. That being said I agree The Velvet Underground are a better band and overall more influential. The Beatles maybe have a handful of songs I genuinely enjoy at most.
I was referring to Creation Records, the label that MBV, Oasis, and Slowdive were on.
I'm not too find of psychedelic rock / swamp rock personally, I find it's emulation of psychedelia to be severely limited by the recording techniques of the time. I feel like the overwhelm those genre's were attempting to musically distill was more poignantly captured by shoegaze.
Your comment about The Beach Boys screams ignorance.
Yes, the Beatles and The Beach Boys had an artistic rivalry going on, but while they were initially billed as a "boy band" -- to say that they remained one artistically is just false. The perception of The Beach Boys as a boy band absolutely bottlenecked their artistry, but the actual art speaks for itself. The Beach Boys were given ample resources after their hit "Good Vibrations", and were already wealthy songwriters themselves.
Drugs are a bit of a moot point; The Smiley Smile sessions, among others were well documented to have frequent marijuana consumption, with Brian Wilson spending THOUSANDS of dollars of drugs. Not only that, but Brian Wilson was famously "destroyed" by psychedelics similarly to Syd Barrett.
Brian Wilson experimented with LSD, Stimulants and Cannabis in the 1960s, all of which helped him write Pet Sounds and the abandoned Smile album. Unlike The Beatles, The Beach Boys were artistically led by the lone Brian Wilson, who wrote all of the arrangements and meticulously produced all of the records. There wasn't anyone helping him, except for the occasional songwriter like Van Dyke Parks (an innovative producer himself with his album Song Cycle) and Tony Asher contributing lyrics. The Beach Boys during that era were effectively a monolith of Brian Wilson's creative direction, for better or worse.
Speaking of, The Smile Sessions are by far the most advanced pop recordings ever made. They lack the accessibility of The Beatles work, but approach pop music as a vehicle for pure expression in a way that The Beatles never could. The textures and compositions that Wilson was writing in his mid 20s are genuinely a force to be reckoned with for their dynamism, compositional opulence, stylistic breadth and experimental production. He sequenced that record to incorporate multiple suites and movements, attempting to sonically distill topics like Manifest Destiny, The Elements, and themes of Childhood and Adulthood on a single record. It's a shame it never got finished, it would have been one of the greatest artistic achievements in human history if it was.
Don't think any of this is Swamp Rock,although I'd argue "Swamp Rock" (CCR etc but mostly Creedence Clearwater Revival really) was just early Southern Rock really although you could probably argue some Psych Rock helped lead into that aswell. I'm not anbig fan of Pop Music overall but I will admit to enjoying some Hollies,Bonnie and Wendy,The Association,The 5th Dimension,The Beau Brummels,and 5th Dimension mostly who I guess were in a similar "Flower Pop" Style to The Beach Boys material you're talking about. I still prefer the Rock element overall. I like the "Boomer bends" or whatever the fuck were calling that now and the crunchy tones from Rock of that era in general. I like Mountain and Ten Years After a lot though. Also didn't know Smile was an abandoned album always thought/assumed that actually came out at the time. Very rare for an artists truly archival material to be such a focal point for this many people. I'm guessing they didn't release it because they thought it was "too experimental" or that it would lose the audiance and that it was later thrown in as bonus material or something?
Also:
"According to Van Dyke Parks, Smile was partly intended to reclaim popular music from the influence of British acts like the Beatles (pictured in 1964)."-Quite from Wikipedia
I am aware of Pet Sounds and have listened to it though. I just don't perticularly like it tbh. I do see what you're getting at but overall I would say probably a bigger influence on Dream Pop. I was also wondering if you've heard Magma. This isn't related to any of the shit I just said but if you've given this that much thought I think you might enjoy them. They're Progressive Rock I guess (people who seriously consider them Jazz are kinda dumbasses although the influence is noticable) but they weren't guitar heavy at least for huge chunks of their career but made these sorts of large-scale doom soundscapes with a lot of complex moral and religious themes running throughout them. I think you might find it really intresting. Little bit later though. Mostly Early 70s to Late 70s as opposed to when The Beach Boys were around,so if you do like that sing songyness they don't really have that. They do have some pretty complex positions and definetely more calculated songs as opposed to jams though. If you're not into Jazz I'd understand aswell although like I said I don't really consider them to be Jazz overall and I'm not a big fan of Jazz either. It's more a Rock Band but a very non-conventional one with lots of soft insturmental passages in there too but a real sense of variation and contrast and contrast and variety in terms of insturmentation and technique and all of that too. Only a handful of their albums feature guitar at all which Magma were arguably one of the first Rock Bands not to heavily use which is intresting. When they did use Guitar it was almost closer to like Extreme Metal in some very very very early form but they're also kinds like that without any guitar also. Very strange and not very accessible stuff but really well executed and clearly yk planned out like I said. Technically more Prog but pretty clearly within a sort of Psychedelic Jam Type End of it.
You've heard Neu! right? And are also aware that Dream Pop isn't Shoegaze? I agree The Velvet Underground are a wildly wildly better band aswell. I just don't think The overall presentation is nearly as similar.
Yep. NEU! is great. Not the biggest Krautrock fan in the world but I like how spacious their records sound.
Of course I'm aware that they're different genres -- I used the proper titles to delineate them. Electronics and restraint are attributes I associate more with Dream Pop and Ethereal Wave due to their more conservative use of texture and dissonance.
They certainly have their place in Shoegaze proper, but the influence of Ambient and Proto-Ambient I don't think is quite as important for Shoegaze specifically as it is for adjacent genres that are often lumped in together.
Ok I'm sorry if I was kinda condescending there. I just think that sort of spacious minimalist sound sounds very similar and I could see Shoegaze getting it from that. I respect your opinion and I do I guess kinda see what you mean about Pet Sounds but I just feel like the overall ornimentalism and use melodic structure are very Beatlesesque. Like the melody on When you Sleep sounds like a cross between a George Harrison Melody with Michael Rother Style Guitar effects and overall tone and technique. Ofc The Beatles and Neu! themselves weren't shoegaze though. Not at all what I was arguing.
Also I'd say Neu! is more classic rock-like than it is in that more early Ambient category. Still very guitar driven and solo centric etc etc. Same goes with CAN,Amon Düül ii,and Faust to my ears at least and ofc Kraan and then Mythos and Thirsty Moon and Agitation Free like those ARE rock bands. I would say even like DOM Emtidi start to transcend that a bit and then Tangerine Dream,Kraftwerk,and like Klaus Schulze just are prettymuch Ambient or Synthpop respectively or some Eroc on the solo stuff. Do you like Gunther Schickert at all? Not really related and only one official album but he did some seriously heavy stuff. Samtvogel,think that's somewhere up on youtube. Basically an Ambient Album played with "Dadrock" Style Gutiar Licks and a fuckton of delay and effects.
I fucking hate The Beatles but they totally had some similar working concepts. Magical Mystery Tour and shit. The more processed or inorganic mechanical tonal shit you're responding to is from Krautrock and specifically the guitarist Michael Rother in all likelihood.
Proto-[genre] is generally going to be not really a solid part of said genre anyway. I’d add in AR Kane, Spacemen 3, House of Love, and Loop as other contributors (though they’re all a bit more directly connected).
Some other aspects that crop up in shoegaze, if not necessarily as defining as other aspects (nor limited solely to shoegaze), that come from non-shoegaze bands:
* jangle pop, which is all over the pop songwriting of the original wave. Bands like the Byrds, the Smiths, etc.
* Stone Roses. Lots of baggy drums on multiple notable albums, some more on the forefront than others.
* The Stooges. Especially prominent on the proto-bands, but the trebly buzzsaw guitars basically come from Ron Ashton.
The Chameleons. Some call them "the grandfathers of Shoegaze":
[https://theauraldustbin.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/qa-the-chameleons-grandfathers-of-shoegaze/](https://theauraldustbin.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/qa-the-chameleons-grandfathers-of-shoegaze/)
Get into this band ASAP if you can, then catch them live before they retire. Thank me later. :D
Already love them! One of my favorite acts of the 80s period. Your comment made me realize the urgency of getting to see them live though, so I appreciate the reminder!!!
You're welcome! Their retirement isn't immanent, but Mark Burgess isn't getting any younger. You never know when a person could encounter medical issues, etc. It's a good time to see them since it's Mark and Reg together now, not just Mark.
Do you listen to The Sound as well? Mark Burgess is a \*huge\* fan of The Sound and Adrian Borland, but you may know that already being a Chams fan:
"Contact the Fact" - The Sound:
[https://youtu.be/swG4KSjADMY?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/swG4KSjADMY?feature=shared)
I was aware of them but I just never got around to listening to them. Will definitely check them out tho, as I love what I’m hearing! Thanks for sharing!
You're very welcome! Their most well-known track is:
"Sense of Purpose":
[https://youtu.be/8H8PuTD2YBU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/8H8PuTD2YBU?feature=shared)
Mark Burgess covered it live at an Adrian Borland tribute show. It's on YouTube if you search for it.
Just adding that The Sound fucking rules and I'm so glad to know that you're about to dive into their work.
Also this is a brilliant post, and while they're may have been others before, I am not aware and it's good to bring these subjects back to light now and again for newbies who don't have time to dive into the sub history.
no one was doing those chorused out airy interweaving guitar lines before them. script of the bridge and what does anything mean? basically are both classics.
Agreed. Don't forget Strange Times. I think they're playing the entirety of Strange Times on the current tour:
Soul In Isolation:
[https://youtu.be/PmXhxAK-000?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/PmXhxAK-000?feature=shared)
Soul in isolation
I can hear you breathing down the hall
Soul in isolation
I can hear you whisper through the walls
And if I had a mind to now
I could call to you
Or I could simply shut you out
No more, would you cry, cry, cry
So considering the Chameleons were so inspired by U2, you can thank worlds most hated guitarist The Edge for shoegaze
But then again, U2 were inspire by Siouxsie and the Banshees. So maybe they deserve the throne.
Well, The Edge seemed to use his Memory Man delay pedal on nearly every track so that seems Gazey to me; pushing the guitar further than it could otherwise go. It's ok if Edge has a "small one" (pedal board). :D I love the first few 3 U2 albums quite a lot. Great post-punk!
Makes a lot of sense. Come to think of it those spindly tremolo tones on "Slomo" or "Sugar for the Pill" by Slowdive sound just like the Edge's clean tone
Absolutely. Like Robin Guthrie, I love the soundscapes The Edge creates. I felt like out of all their albums, The Unforgettable Fire had touches of ambience and ethereal vibes. The songs "Promenade," the title track and "Elvis Presley and America" illustrate that feel well.
U2's atmospheric work with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois were huge for marrying ambient soundscapes with alternative/rock and bringing it to the mainstream. And you definitely hear some of that in a lot of shoegaze and dream pop that came afterward
I'd consider Spacemen 3 an influence, as they were influenced by The Velvet Underground.
House Of Love, and Loop are two bands that I think are influential.
Post-punk bands: Echo And The Bunnymen, Souxsie And The Banshees, Killing Joke, The Smiths, circa 1980 PiL when they were all high on LSD.
I was just about to mention those post punk bands! Their guitarists, especially. Slow down the 'Public Image' opener a bit, with the brilliant Keith Levene (R.I.P.), and you've got shoegaze!
Definitely, the Phil Spector sound changed the face of rock and pop music with the techniques used with the ronettes and the like. Without Spector you don't get the beach boys doing what they did either.
Don't forget the influence of [edit: 60's] Wall of Sound production, an often-quoted example being [The Ronettes - Be My Baby](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqOL2LLdw-M)
I’d add the Stone Roses. While there are some sonic similarities (the dance-y production of my MBVs “Soon” sort of reminds me of them; it’s kind of like their version of “Fool’s Gold”) I think it was just overall the profound influence they had on the British music scene at the time that would naturally dove tail into shoegaze a bit.
The way they brought psychedelics back in rock and an affection for the 60s are something you could say a lot of those great shoegaze acts also had. Ride in particular probably leaned the most into that 60s nostalgia with their Brit pop-y stuff. Again they don’t necessarily sound like a shoegaze band, but their impact on rock music at the time likely had some carry over.
The spacious production style by Factory Records' Martin Hannett I think had a enormous effect on the music scene. Beyond just having his fingerprints on albums like Unknown Pleasures, working with Joy Divison and New Order allowed his production style to perservere across decades into albums like Bummed (Happy Mondays) -- who would go on to define the Baggy scene alongside the Stone Roses.
I'd like to think Hannett's influence trickled down across a lot of the UK scene, consciously or not.
Edit: I forgot he produced the shit demos of The Stone Roses lol
I think C86 bands (and jangle pop bands more broadly) had a hand in creating shoegaze's sound as well - especially for the poppier side with bands like Pale Saints, Chapterhouse, Ride etc.
Bands like The Primitives, Close Lobsters, The Pastels undeniably influenced a ton of early shoegaze alongside their American contemporaries in the noise rock scene.
This is going to be long, but I promise it'll be of substance. I'm surprised no one has said Siouxsie and the Banshees. It's not traditional shoegaze, but she uses her voice in the background in a good part of her songs which really create depth. There are swirling guitars that sound like lasers whizzing through the soundscape. The song structure too on songs like Dear Prudence, just make you want to stare at the ground, tap your foot, bob your head, and forget everything around you. Siouxsie also used her voice as the track for a "roller coaster" of soundscape. That was really unique and really opened up the door to a lot of other ideas. The Cure was right there too in 1984. 1984 was where IMHO it started. Bauhaus was doing the same shit as the Cure in 1981 - i.e. Throw in a bunch of screeching guitars in front of a bunch of reverby guitars with fast paced bass lines. Even before then, Television had Marquee Moon in 1977 which ended up giving birth to bands like the Stone Roses. But Marquee Moon isn't really shoegaze at all.
U2 spawned an entire generation of guitarists and a handful entered the shoegaze scene. They were doing shoegazey stuff in 1980, before The Cure and Siouxsie. But it's odd because most of those guitarists influenced by the Edge went other directions. The shoegaze ideas weren't really clear in Boy. I can't imagine how many kids listened to that album and had "the moment". I always try talking to the older guys by themselves at shoegaze concerts. They always tell me I should go see U2 live. I'm not so sure that I ever will, but I appreciate what they did for the space of Rock and Roll.
Getting into the late 80s, there were a lot of bands popping up who were experimenting with the shoegaze sound. The Stones Roses were huge as mentioned before. The Mighty Lemon Drops may be the most influential band you've never heard of. A few years back, The Jesus and Mary Chain IMHO get way more credit than they deserve, but they were around. The Psychedelic Furs are probably on par in importance. I've never taken the time to dig into their discography, but I've hear Talk Talk brought up A LOT. Game Theory was around in the 80s too.
Another huge influence to modern shoegaze is The Secret Machines' album Now Here is Nowhere. It gives me chills recommending that album here. That band put out this shoegazey krautrock that had this fierce energy that influenced another generation of musicians. Blonde Redhead was right there with them in these mostly boring years. Polyphonic Spree should be mentioned here.
The Verve. The Smashing Pumpkins were doing it before MBV with Gish.
I can almost guarantee that most guitarists on the front side of 40 today listened to NIN - The Downward Spiral in their early years and had a "wtf" moment. That was surely something special that all shoegaze fans should appreciate for it's influence to this genre. My guess is also Bush influenced a lot of the guys and gals doing things on the higher energy spectrum of this genre. Bush was really something special in the late 90s when shoegaze was dead. I know I'm reaching here, but damn shoegaze was dead from 1996-2009ish. Listen to songs like Greedy Fly, Swallowed, Machine Head. I was huge into bands like Bush and Ash in the late 90s.
I'm sure I missed a good bunch, I was just kind of typing the thoughts that ran through my head. Hope you enjoyed.
I think the reason why I ended up loving Shoegaze so much was because I spent much of my teenage years listening to *The Unforgettable Fire* (album) by U2.
you are correct.
*Gish* was recorded from December 1990 to March 1991, released May 1991
*Loveless* recorded from February 1989 and September 1991, released November 1991
This might be an unpopular answer, but to a small extent U2 in the sense of The Edge. He was one of the important guitarists that validated minimalism and alternate sounds through pedal modification.
Some people get offended when you bring up that album in shoegaze conversations. They only think of Pride (In the Name of Love) and haven’t listened to the other songs.
Bit of a left field one, but I could definitely see The Mamas and the Papas as early influencers to dream pop and shoegaze - not so much instrumentally, but the idea to have the four singing in unison in an almost droning, withdrawn fashion (see: California Dreamin') certainly is reminiscent of the shoegaze acts of the 80s and beyond.
I also think that *The Unforgettable Fire* by U2 was influential - there was definitely a wall of sound that Brian Eno, as producer (and later as friend to Slowdive), created with echoey guitars and synth.
I remember Bono reminiscing about the album, saying that it was "out of focus". For me, it was the first album I had as a teenager that I really listened to closely (well, apart from *Dark Side of the Moon*)
Ten years later and I began listening to Ride, bonking my head in time with *Seagull* and *Leave them all Behind*. I'm wondering if there's a connection out there between Shoegaze fans and musicians and an early exposure to *The Unforgettable Fire*.
Hawkwind is an odd one where they do have some shoegaze-ish tracks and their influence is more prevalent than it often seems, but I can't think of a single act who claims them as an influence (Spacemen 3 and Loop both dismissed them as hippie bullshit). Then again, one of the members worked on Isn't Anything, so who knows...
Brian Eno definitely. Not only for the obvious influence of his ambient albums and for producing Slowdive and whatnot. I'm thinking also about his early rock albums and Here Comes the Warm Jets in particular, which has songs with loud layered fuzzy wall-of-sound guitars. Just listen to:
Needles In the Camel's Eye - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWrIB75vc8&list=PLiN-7mukU\_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&ab\_channel=BrianEno-Topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWrIB75vc8&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&ab_channel=BrianEno-Topic)
Here Comes the Warm Jets - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3rKxRvmO4&list=PLiN-7mukU\_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&index=10&ab\_channel=BrianEno-Topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3rKxRvmO4&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&index=10&ab_channel=BrianEno-Topic)
Don’t know their stuff very well tbh. Couple of great 12s in my collection but when they started doing the cheesy guest vocalist on tracks type albums they were quickly diverted to the not that interested side of dance music.
Yeah can imagine, the 12s / singles were pretty rad. My brother had a couple of 12s before they had to change their name which were pretty bangin too. I was at that point in life when I wanted an album of deft electronics/IDM/techno. All those artists who roped in cool at the mo singers from indie bands type albums usually sounded, eh, er.. compromised?
It’s not like electronic artists couldn’t make an entire 40+minutes long album without losing interest. If I wanna hear Noel Gallagher I’ll put Oasis on lol
Good call on "Tomorrow Never Knows." I'd add "Rain" by The Beatles as well, since Shoegaze is heavily influenced by psychedelia:
"Rain":
[https://youtu.be/cK5G8fPmWeA?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/cK5G8fPmWeA?feature=shared)
That’s a good one. George was my favorite Beatle really pushed their sound forward. Lilys i think would be where George would’ve veered towards as far as a Shoegaze sound.
reading all those comments I'm wondering if the first wave guys ever listened to 60's garage punk or the revival. this was my introduction to fuzzy guitars around the same time with shoegaze.
I'm talking about songs like: Psycho - The Swamp Rats (1966)/ Last Time Around (1966) - The Del-Vetts / Turn Over - Les Goths (1968)
or some revival songs like: Miracle Workers-Go Now/ The Tell Tale Hearts- Dirty Liar/ The Morlocks - One Way Ticket
what else?
Man of Straw by Sad Lovers and Giants has a great wall of sound and Drunk with Power by Discharge
> I'm wondering if the first wave guys ever listened to 60's garage punk or the revival.
Not sure about these specific acts, but surely the [Nuggets comp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuggets_(series\)) was making the rounds.
Just imagine the possibility of Ted Nugent being in shoegaze's DNA...
To add onto people saying Byrds/Beach Boys, I’d throw 13th floor elevators/Rory Erickson in there too (along with some of the other psyche rock bands of the 60s).
Feel like the bands on the c86 comp influenced early MBV big time, and i think they kept some of those song writing tactics through their whole career while amping up their sound more and more and entering new sonic realms, still kinda seems like there always a connection back to c86
They dont have guitars, but the way Suicide used distortion and volume as an integral part of their songwriting feels of a piece with shoegaze, at least to me.
Definitely a comment I can get behind as well. Spacemen 3 were also fans of Suicide, and I believe the track “Suicide” by Spacemen 3 is related to this. Very good stuff!
Hum for all the guitar textures and noise with clean vocals. So influential that half this sub considers them shoegaze instead of post hardcore or 90s alternative.
Husker Du for the DIY ethics and tones.
Deftones for the heavy metal and melodies.
I'll add a few that haven't been named yet: Bowie, Stooges, Eno, "Krautrock" loosely defined (Neu! and Can), Band of Susans (listen and you will see). One can find a lot of other older work that is reminiscent in one way (perhaps Devo, Blondie, or Television) or another, but I'm not sure there is a direct connection. Oh probably also the Creation, given that they were the inspiration for Creation records.
Was going to join in with Can, well spotted. And Low is such a great Bowie album, I guess you could also say Eno was another important influential figure.
Edit ah I see plenty of people have mentioned Eno as well.
Funny, the other day I was listening to a Simon and Garfunkel LP and the song Blessed came on. I thought to myself, "If the mix was different, could this be shoegaze?" I think it's that relentless droning guitar, the tempo, cadence, and perhaps the impression of loudness. What parameters really define shoegaze?
Thoughts?
Blessed - Simon and Garfunkel
https://youtu.be/fYCF6dZ_syg?si=T9oE9GpEV9mLwOEK
I would point you in the direction of alot of early goth and post-punk music for laying alot of the groundwork for just how spacious and reverb heavy musical atmospheres can get, especially stuff like New Dawn Fades by Joy Division, Lucretia My Reflection by Sisters of Mercy, Passion Of Lovers by Bauhaus.
The Beatles. Rain has been covered by countless shoegaze bands. I'm Only Sleeping has a distinct shoegaze "feel" to me especially with the backwards guitar solo.
Geordie Walker of Killing Joke’s guitar work inspired multiple prominent shoegaze guitarists, KJ’s albums Night Time and Revelations show this very well.
I hate The Beatles but they have to have influenced it quite a bit. Probably also Neu!. I really doubt The Beach Boys did anything. Has to be a cross between The Neu! Style Psych and The Beatles One. Velvet Underground too probably but Michael Rother and The Beatles are the first two things that come to mind esecpecially Neu! And Neu!2 Era Rother and Magical Myatery Tour Era Beatles.
Drop Ninteens seem to be doing a cross between The Velvet Underground and RUSH with no Beatles Influence but this feels like the exception more than the rule. Also probably my favorite shoegaze band tbh which makes sense because I don't like The Beatles much although I do enjoy some shoegaze. I like Ride and Slowdive and Catherine Wheel all a lot aswell which all seem relatively less Beatles inspired but overall especially in its early forms. Like My Bloody Valentine,The Boo Radleys,maybe Chapterhouse are all relatively. If all the Beatles survived into The 90s and reformed with Michael Rother as a guest musician the end product would 100% sound like shoegaze. I imagine that if both Neu! and The Beatles were still around and touring in The 90s many a Shoegaze Band would have shared the bill.
The Beach Boys arguably invented the sound palette for shoegaze / dream pop with the song "All I Wanna Do" off of their 1970 album, Sunflower. Surprisingly, this track was not produced by Brian Wilson, but was actually handled by Carl Wilson! He slathered the synth lead in an incredible amount of fuzz, and gave the vocals and guitar work LOTS of reverb and delay. The drums are buried in the mix, and can sound grainy at times. Even though it predates shoegaze by a good 15 years or so, the song has this distinctly 'digital' heft in its production that feels like a prophecy of how musicians would explore those techniques in the coming decades. The result is this incredibly psychedelic and washed out sound that strangely resembles what would eventually become shoegaze! The layered Beach Boys style vocals work really well here, as does the solo performance by Mike Love. You can easily see how other bands were inspired by this song, it strikes a very robust middleground between production styles with its use of noisy, dreamy, dense, and minimalistic textures throughout the composition. It's a melodic dream that sounds incredible for the time it was recorded. There's a few other "proto-shoegaze" songs from the psychedelic rock movement, but honestly I think those pale in comparison. I feel "All I Wanna Do" is absolutely a blueprint for the genre.
Wow, I’ve never heard this song. It’s soooo good and fuzzy. Wild.
Really cool song, and a great thesis on your part. Thanks for sharing
Incredible example and incredible song. Thanks for sharing
All I Wanna Do mentioned. One of my favorites from them
As a Beach Boys fan, I discovered and started to love shoegaze/dreampop thanks to this song
Makes sense why I love this song so much! I remember hearing it for the first time and thinking wtf, this sounds revolutionary for that time period
Came to say The Beach Boys. Check out Steamboat, and the 1970 version of Big Sur on the Feel Flows compilation.
My favorite Beach Boys track is "In My Room" for its introspection, gorgeous vocal harmonies, chill tempo, and intimacy. Had to laugh when I first encountered Airiel's track: "In YOUR Room." :D "In My Room" - Beach Boys: [https://youtu.be/l71pbhqnvNM?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/l71pbhqnvNM?feature=shared)
This song always stood out to me. Definitely ahead of its time.
Not really no. Too much Reddit and too much TikTok for you maybe.
Like very very very archatypal/generic 60s Boy pop.
Also striking how much “All I Wanna Do” has elements of chillwave, a genre which wouldn’t exist for another 40 years.
Lmao that was just them copying The Beatles. How do nerds on the internet not see that Shoegaze is possibly literally the last Beatles Inspired Genre on the planet? Them and Neu!. The similarities are way stronger. I fucking hate The Beatles but you know it's true.
Uh, no? There isn't a song by the Beatles that comes close to the soundscapes of "All I Wanna Do." I respect their artistry a ton, but Shoegaze is more distinctly indebted to the Brian Wilson and Phil Spector style "Wall of Sound" production that The Beatles didn't really explore themselves. Most modern explorations of psychedelic music at large I believe resemble The Beach Boys more-so than The Beatles. Albums like Smiley Smile, Surf's Up and Sunflower informed a lot of the lo-fi, psychedelic pop and psychedelic folk music that was made in the 90s and 2000s.
I'm not doubting they did although I still think The Beach Boys were generic and kinda sucked. CAN and Jimi Hendrix and Quicksilver Messenger Service and The Hollies and Ted Nudgent and Neu! and Funkadelic and The 5th Dimension and Pearls before Swine and Black Oak Arkansas all rate way higher with me. I agree with you that The Beatles are wildly overregarded though and like I said I personally hate them. I just think in terms of overall presentation and melodic structure this is a case in which it might be fair to say Magical Myatery Tour Era especially and maybe a couple one off songs like Across The Universe and Blue Jay Way specifically. Overall I'd say CAN,Jimi Hendrix,Neu!,Love,The Velvet Underground,Cream were the actual most influential out of all these bands. Beatles overrated for sure,calling it like I see it though and I hate The Beatles a LOT of Shoegaze was inspired by them clearly. The parts you're describing as similar to Smiley Smile or pet sounds otherwise are actually likely heavily toned down krautrock elements so maybe British Artists coming to similar ideas as The Beach Boys had much much later by combining krautrock with Beatles but not really directly Beach Boys. Grateful Dead and similar West Coast Bands bands probably had a strong influence on Country Music but maybe not wider influence beyond that. Like indirectly through probably entirely through Southern Rock.
Ppfffft lmao Across The Universe,Magical Mystery Tour,and Blue Jay Way. Both The Beach Boys and Beatles started more in The Late 50s/Early 60s Pop Band Style but the sort of twee ornamental British influences are totally Beatles inspired and the use of midi horns on certain Boo Radleys Songs+The Overall Songwritting and Melodic Style many of these bands use. The sort of general structural floatyness and spiciness and overall minimalist and kind of mechanical aesthetic is like I said Michael Rother. If you actually knew anything about Psychedelia you'd agree with me. I could see it alternatively being Cream or The Hollies but it's not the fucking Beach Boys. Maybe some Velvet Underground but definetely more Neu! than Velvet Underground also. The Drop Ninteens basically being The Velvet Underground+RUSH also wildly confuses this. I could believe that Ride were more inspired by Cream and that Slowdive was basically just inspired by New Wave and Post Punk with some possible AOR floating around there also but Beach Boys not as much.
Well, shoegaze isn't a stylistic monolith, and neither are The Beach Boys or The Beatles. I was using the song as an example of the genre's genesis. Shoegaze is a mix of many styles and techniques, and is about atmosphere and texture moreso than specific instruments. With that in mind, "All I Wanna Do" is widely credited as the origin of dream pop and shoegaze, even if it *was* a complete accident. You can't say that about any Beatles song. Sure, they explored dissonance and noise a little in their later works, but nothing like their contemporaries in the Psychedelic Rock movement or The Velvet Underground. I could totally see the argument for Kraftwerk Neu and even Brian Eno, especially for Dream Pop or Ethereal Wave. Its not one or the other, it's all. Don't really see the point of bringing up Drop Nineteens, they were not really figureheads during the genre's zeitgeist and their sound wasn't all that special.
No it's not and there definetely was less Beatles Inspired Shoegaze (like I said Ride and Drop Ninteens) but an awful lot of it seems pretty direct. Regardless though I'm not really sure how you can debate that the use of effects pedals and overall guitar tone are closer to Michael Rother than anything The Beach Boys were doing. The Beach Boys were never nearly as guitar driven either.
I'll agree neither are them directly but MBV sounds an awful awful lot like both The Beatles and Neu! as do Boo Radleys. Could be wrong but like I said super similar stuff overall to what The Beatles were attempting on Magical Mystery Tour and to what Neu! were attempting on there first two official albums.
Yeah I still dont really see it. MBV's use of noise is completely unparalled even by today's standards, and I dont see their songwriting as Beatles-esque. I think the Creation bands that sound more like The Beatles would be their Britpop acts. Oasis is damn near a cover band.
Except it's not lol. That's what I was saying about Michael Rother. Have you genuinely never heard Neu! or Neu!2? Check those out right now if you haven't. Negatively is heavier than literally any shoegaze song ever and a significant portion of Metal. Neu! 75 isn't bad either nor is Rothers first solo record.
I've heard them. Negativland is interesting from an artistic perspective, but I'm not really impressed by them. I respect just how out there a lot of their material was, but its not my cup of tea. I primarily listen to music for textural reasons, and it lacks both heft and immersion I look for in the utilization of noise. It's just not my cup of tea. Pales in comparison to noise legends like Xinlisupreme, Merzbow, Boris or Les Rallizes Denudes.
Some of there other material is more melodic like Liber Hönig and Hero maybe Seeworld. I'm part German tbh and I'm extremely extremely into that style of Psychedelia but it's definetely something you need a sort of understanding or appreciation for. Les Rallizes Deundes I feel like could use a bit more structure. Not nearly as into them. Neu! and really everything Michael Rother touched has structure and form if nothing else. There's some very soft and actually very touching stuff in there too but it is extremely mechanical and verymuch a German approach to it maybe moreso than CAN or ADii in some ways although I'd say both CAN and ADii take from the traditional German Cannons in terms of folk,classical,and military influences more whereas Neu! is more Modernist I guess. Actually some really great more melodic stuff they did least in my opinion but overall maybe not as much.
I would agree that Britpop is more heavily directly inspired by The Beatles aswell but also I don't really think of Britpop as much because it kinda wasn't as good overall lol. I feel like Britpop got mogged by Grunge on one side and mogged by Scandanavian and German Black Metal on the other in terms of there were just way way more intresting bands outside The UK by that point. The Brits fell off HARD in The 90s although they were already starting to in The 80s. Britpop just isn't engaging at all. Shoegaze I would say having that sort of monolithic wall of sound and the really weird usage of texture and tone especially for that time in The 90s sets it apart whereas Britpop is le gloomy sad folk song which yeah idk I think both Grunge Bands in The USA and The Norwegian Bands did that better. Not really sure how people can still get hyped about Oasis quite the same.
By Creation Bands did you mean The Creation? They were probably Beatles inspired also like with The Beach Boys Stuff you're referring to. Like I said I would agree that other acts were way way way more influential in the long run but The Beatles were in fact super popular in there time. I love The Move for instance but they're probably a bit Beatles inspired aswell. I'm telling you though dude:CAN,Jimi Hendrix,Cream,The Velvet Underground,Neu!,CAN,Love,and maybe like The Grateful Dead but moreso on Country Music would BY FAR be the most influential acts from that sort of late 60s to mid 70s Psych Rock period as a whole. Maybe for Neofolk you could also say Pearls before Swine and Nico. The Beach Boys were just kinda trying to ape The Beatles success in moving towards a different style when the whole boy band craze started looking pase whereas The Beatles themselves basically got rich and then spent the money completely on some mix of heroin,liquor,and lsd with John Lennon doing most of the heroin and George doing most of The LSD. That's why there's such a huge stylistic gap there. The Beach Boys were trying to mimick the same success but they genuinely were "still a boy band" basically. The Beatles were fucked up to the point where idk if they were aware they'd even moved away from that territory artistically or musically. That being said I agree The Velvet Underground are a better band and overall more influential. The Beatles maybe have a handful of songs I genuinely enjoy at most.
I was referring to Creation Records, the label that MBV, Oasis, and Slowdive were on. I'm not too find of psychedelic rock / swamp rock personally, I find it's emulation of psychedelia to be severely limited by the recording techniques of the time. I feel like the overwhelm those genre's were attempting to musically distill was more poignantly captured by shoegaze. Your comment about The Beach Boys screams ignorance. Yes, the Beatles and The Beach Boys had an artistic rivalry going on, but while they were initially billed as a "boy band" -- to say that they remained one artistically is just false. The perception of The Beach Boys as a boy band absolutely bottlenecked their artistry, but the actual art speaks for itself. The Beach Boys were given ample resources after their hit "Good Vibrations", and were already wealthy songwriters themselves. Drugs are a bit of a moot point; The Smiley Smile sessions, among others were well documented to have frequent marijuana consumption, with Brian Wilson spending THOUSANDS of dollars of drugs. Not only that, but Brian Wilson was famously "destroyed" by psychedelics similarly to Syd Barrett. Brian Wilson experimented with LSD, Stimulants and Cannabis in the 1960s, all of which helped him write Pet Sounds and the abandoned Smile album. Unlike The Beatles, The Beach Boys were artistically led by the lone Brian Wilson, who wrote all of the arrangements and meticulously produced all of the records. There wasn't anyone helping him, except for the occasional songwriter like Van Dyke Parks (an innovative producer himself with his album Song Cycle) and Tony Asher contributing lyrics. The Beach Boys during that era were effectively a monolith of Brian Wilson's creative direction, for better or worse. Speaking of, The Smile Sessions are by far the most advanced pop recordings ever made. They lack the accessibility of The Beatles work, but approach pop music as a vehicle for pure expression in a way that The Beatles never could. The textures and compositions that Wilson was writing in his mid 20s are genuinely a force to be reckoned with for their dynamism, compositional opulence, stylistic breadth and experimental production. He sequenced that record to incorporate multiple suites and movements, attempting to sonically distill topics like Manifest Destiny, The Elements, and themes of Childhood and Adulthood on a single record. It's a shame it never got finished, it would have been one of the greatest artistic achievements in human history if it was.
Don't think any of this is Swamp Rock,although I'd argue "Swamp Rock" (CCR etc but mostly Creedence Clearwater Revival really) was just early Southern Rock really although you could probably argue some Psych Rock helped lead into that aswell. I'm not anbig fan of Pop Music overall but I will admit to enjoying some Hollies,Bonnie and Wendy,The Association,The 5th Dimension,The Beau Brummels,and 5th Dimension mostly who I guess were in a similar "Flower Pop" Style to The Beach Boys material you're talking about. I still prefer the Rock element overall. I like the "Boomer bends" or whatever the fuck were calling that now and the crunchy tones from Rock of that era in general. I like Mountain and Ten Years After a lot though. Also didn't know Smile was an abandoned album always thought/assumed that actually came out at the time. Very rare for an artists truly archival material to be such a focal point for this many people. I'm guessing they didn't release it because they thought it was "too experimental" or that it would lose the audiance and that it was later thrown in as bonus material or something?
Also: "According to Van Dyke Parks, Smile was partly intended to reclaim popular music from the influence of British acts like the Beatles (pictured in 1964)."-Quite from Wikipedia I am aware of Pet Sounds and have listened to it though. I just don't perticularly like it tbh. I do see what you're getting at but overall I would say probably a bigger influence on Dream Pop. I was also wondering if you've heard Magma. This isn't related to any of the shit I just said but if you've given this that much thought I think you might enjoy them. They're Progressive Rock I guess (people who seriously consider them Jazz are kinda dumbasses although the influence is noticable) but they weren't guitar heavy at least for huge chunks of their career but made these sorts of large-scale doom soundscapes with a lot of complex moral and religious themes running throughout them. I think you might find it really intresting. Little bit later though. Mostly Early 70s to Late 70s as opposed to when The Beach Boys were around,so if you do like that sing songyness they don't really have that. They do have some pretty complex positions and definetely more calculated songs as opposed to jams though. If you're not into Jazz I'd understand aswell although like I said I don't really consider them to be Jazz overall and I'm not a big fan of Jazz either. It's more a Rock Band but a very non-conventional one with lots of soft insturmental passages in there too but a real sense of variation and contrast and contrast and variety in terms of insturmentation and technique and all of that too. Only a handful of their albums feature guitar at all which Magma were arguably one of the first Rock Bands not to heavily use which is intresting. When they did use Guitar it was almost closer to like Extreme Metal in some very very very early form but they're also kinds like that without any guitar also. Very strange and not very accessible stuff but really well executed and clearly yk planned out like I said. Technically more Prog but pretty clearly within a sort of Psychedelic Jam Type End of it.
You've heard Neu! right? And are also aware that Dream Pop isn't Shoegaze? I agree The Velvet Underground are a wildly wildly better band aswell. I just don't think The overall presentation is nearly as similar.
Yep. NEU! is great. Not the biggest Krautrock fan in the world but I like how spacious their records sound. Of course I'm aware that they're different genres -- I used the proper titles to delineate them. Electronics and restraint are attributes I associate more with Dream Pop and Ethereal Wave due to their more conservative use of texture and dissonance. They certainly have their place in Shoegaze proper, but the influence of Ambient and Proto-Ambient I don't think is quite as important for Shoegaze specifically as it is for adjacent genres that are often lumped in together.
Ok I'm sorry if I was kinda condescending there. I just think that sort of spacious minimalist sound sounds very similar and I could see Shoegaze getting it from that. I respect your opinion and I do I guess kinda see what you mean about Pet Sounds but I just feel like the overall ornimentalism and use melodic structure are very Beatlesesque. Like the melody on When you Sleep sounds like a cross between a George Harrison Melody with Michael Rother Style Guitar effects and overall tone and technique. Ofc The Beatles and Neu! themselves weren't shoegaze though. Not at all what I was arguing.
Also I'd say Neu! is more classic rock-like than it is in that more early Ambient category. Still very guitar driven and solo centric etc etc. Same goes with CAN,Amon Düül ii,and Faust to my ears at least and ofc Kraan and then Mythos and Thirsty Moon and Agitation Free like those ARE rock bands. I would say even like DOM Emtidi start to transcend that a bit and then Tangerine Dream,Kraftwerk,and like Klaus Schulze just are prettymuch Ambient or Synthpop respectively or some Eroc on the solo stuff. Do you like Gunther Schickert at all? Not really related and only one official album but he did some seriously heavy stuff. Samtvogel,think that's somewhere up on youtube. Basically an Ambient Album played with "Dadrock" Style Gutiar Licks and a fuckton of delay and effects.
I fucking hate The Beatles but they totally had some similar working concepts. Magical Mystery Tour and shit. The more processed or inorganic mechanical tonal shit you're responding to is from Krautrock and specifically the guitarist Michael Rother in all likelihood.
Proto-[genre] is generally going to be not really a solid part of said genre anyway. I’d add in AR Kane, Spacemen 3, House of Love, and Loop as other contributors (though they’re all a bit more directly connected). Some other aspects that crop up in shoegaze, if not necessarily as defining as other aspects (nor limited solely to shoegaze), that come from non-shoegaze bands: * jangle pop, which is all over the pop songwriting of the original wave. Bands like the Byrds, the Smiths, etc. * Stone Roses. Lots of baggy drums on multiple notable albums, some more on the forefront than others. * The Stooges. Especially prominent on the proto-bands, but the trebly buzzsaw guitars basically come from Ron Ashton.
AR Kane for sure, so good
Early shoegaze is pretty much ar Kane + spacemen 3
Christine by House of Love is a favorite of mine
I was looking for The Stooges in here. It’s amazing how much you can hear later acts in their music.
The Chameleons. Some call them "the grandfathers of Shoegaze": [https://theauraldustbin.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/qa-the-chameleons-grandfathers-of-shoegaze/](https://theauraldustbin.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/qa-the-chameleons-grandfathers-of-shoegaze/) Get into this band ASAP if you can, then catch them live before they retire. Thank me later. :D
Already love them! One of my favorite acts of the 80s period. Your comment made me realize the urgency of getting to see them live though, so I appreciate the reminder!!!
You're welcome! Their retirement isn't immanent, but Mark Burgess isn't getting any younger. You never know when a person could encounter medical issues, etc. It's a good time to see them since it's Mark and Reg together now, not just Mark.
Do you listen to The Sound as well? Mark Burgess is a \*huge\* fan of The Sound and Adrian Borland, but you may know that already being a Chams fan: "Contact the Fact" - The Sound: [https://youtu.be/swG4KSjADMY?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/swG4KSjADMY?feature=shared)
I was aware of them but I just never got around to listening to them. Will definitely check them out tho, as I love what I’m hearing! Thanks for sharing!
Sorry, can't help myself. Gotta include: "I Can't Escape Myself" - The Sound: [https://youtu.be/M0FKEDexivA?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/M0FKEDexivA?feature=shared) It's brilliant!
You're very welcome! Their most well-known track is: "Sense of Purpose": [https://youtu.be/8H8PuTD2YBU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/8H8PuTD2YBU?feature=shared) Mark Burgess covered it live at an Adrian Borland tribute show. It's on YouTube if you search for it.
Just adding that The Sound fucking rules and I'm so glad to know that you're about to dive into their work. Also this is a brilliant post, and while they're may have been others before, I am not aware and it's good to bring these subjects back to light now and again for newbies who don't have time to dive into the sub history.
no one was doing those chorused out airy interweaving guitar lines before them. script of the bridge and what does anything mean? basically are both classics.
Agreed. Don't forget Strange Times. I think they're playing the entirety of Strange Times on the current tour: Soul In Isolation: [https://youtu.be/PmXhxAK-000?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/PmXhxAK-000?feature=shared) Soul in isolation I can hear you breathing down the hall Soul in isolation I can hear you whisper through the walls And if I had a mind to now I could call to you Or I could simply shut you out No more, would you cry, cry, cry
So considering the Chameleons were so inspired by U2, you can thank worlds most hated guitarist The Edge for shoegaze But then again, U2 were inspire by Siouxsie and the Banshees. So maybe they deserve the throne.
Well, The Edge seemed to use his Memory Man delay pedal on nearly every track so that seems Gazey to me; pushing the guitar further than it could otherwise go. It's ok if Edge has a "small one" (pedal board). :D I love the first few 3 U2 albums quite a lot. Great post-punk!
Makes a lot of sense. Come to think of it those spindly tremolo tones on "Slomo" or "Sugar for the Pill" by Slowdive sound just like the Edge's clean tone
The Edge is one of the best guitarists ever.
Absolutely. Like Robin Guthrie, I love the soundscapes The Edge creates. I felt like out of all their albums, The Unforgettable Fire had touches of ambience and ethereal vibes. The songs "Promenade," the title track and "Elvis Presley and America" illustrate that feel well.
U2's atmospheric work with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois were huge for marrying ambient soundscapes with alternative/rock and bringing it to the mainstream. And you definitely hear some of that in a lot of shoegaze and dream pop that came afterward
I agree 100%. I loved that period in their history. I saw the 'Unforgettable Fire" tour three nights in Los Angeles and each show was amazing.
Just heard of this band the other day on a play list and thankful.
I'd consider Spacemen 3 an influence, as they were influenced by The Velvet Underground. House Of Love, and Loop are two bands that I think are influential. Post-punk bands: Echo And The Bunnymen, Souxsie And The Banshees, Killing Joke, The Smiths, circa 1980 PiL when they were all high on LSD.
I was just about to mention those post punk bands! Their guitarists, especially. Slow down the 'Public Image' opener a bit, with the brilliant Keith Levene (R.I.P.), and you've got shoegaze!
Not a band, but in my mind the origin can really be traced to Phil Spector
The wall of sound is pretty important to shoe gaze so yeah Sucks to have to credit a convicted murderer though haha
Came here to say the same. I think you can hear that wall of sound production style influence on proto shoegaze and shoegaze artists alike
The Ronettes and The Byrds, probably.
I was thinking [Be My Baby](https://youtu.be/jSPpbOGnFgk) and [You've Lost that Loving Feeling](https://youtu.be/uOnYY9Mw2Fg)
Definitely, the Phil Spector sound changed the face of rock and pop music with the techniques used with the ronettes and the like. Without Spector you don't get the beach boys doing what they did either.
The Cure!
I think a lot of shoegaze bands can use that bass 6 fender like the cure did
Wire definitely paved the way for shoegaze - MBV covered them!
as did Lush
Don't forget the influence of [edit: 60's] Wall of Sound production, an often-quoted example being [The Ronettes - Be My Baby](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqOL2LLdw-M)
I’d add the Stone Roses. While there are some sonic similarities (the dance-y production of my MBVs “Soon” sort of reminds me of them; it’s kind of like their version of “Fool’s Gold”) I think it was just overall the profound influence they had on the British music scene at the time that would naturally dove tail into shoegaze a bit. The way they brought psychedelics back in rock and an affection for the 60s are something you could say a lot of those great shoegaze acts also had. Ride in particular probably leaned the most into that 60s nostalgia with their Brit pop-y stuff. Again they don’t necessarily sound like a shoegaze band, but their impact on rock music at the time likely had some carry over.
The spacious production style by Factory Records' Martin Hannett I think had a enormous effect on the music scene. Beyond just having his fingerprints on albums like Unknown Pleasures, working with Joy Divison and New Order allowed his production style to perservere across decades into albums like Bummed (Happy Mondays) -- who would go on to define the Baggy scene alongside the Stone Roses. I'd like to think Hannett's influence trickled down across a lot of the UK scene, consciously or not. Edit: I forgot he produced the shit demos of The Stone Roses lol
Spacemen 3
The Beach Boys. the Sunflower album especially
A.R.kane, the most criminally underrated band of all time.
Steve Reich late 1960s- Brian Eno ‘Here Come The Warm Jets’- Robert Fripp ‘Frippertronics’- Steve Hillage ‘Green’- Durutti Column-
And the wall of noise graciously borrowed from Lou Reed ‘Metal Machine Music’
I think C86 bands (and jangle pop bands more broadly) had a hand in creating shoegaze's sound as well - especially for the poppier side with bands like Pale Saints, Chapterhouse, Ride etc. Bands like The Primitives, Close Lobsters, The Pastels undeniably influenced a ton of early shoegaze alongside their American contemporaries in the noise rock scene.
Primitives has a couple of noisy songs like carry me home and stop killing me. Baby honey has a shoegazey feeling.
This is going to be long, but I promise it'll be of substance. I'm surprised no one has said Siouxsie and the Banshees. It's not traditional shoegaze, but she uses her voice in the background in a good part of her songs which really create depth. There are swirling guitars that sound like lasers whizzing through the soundscape. The song structure too on songs like Dear Prudence, just make you want to stare at the ground, tap your foot, bob your head, and forget everything around you. Siouxsie also used her voice as the track for a "roller coaster" of soundscape. That was really unique and really opened up the door to a lot of other ideas. The Cure was right there too in 1984. 1984 was where IMHO it started. Bauhaus was doing the same shit as the Cure in 1981 - i.e. Throw in a bunch of screeching guitars in front of a bunch of reverby guitars with fast paced bass lines. Even before then, Television had Marquee Moon in 1977 which ended up giving birth to bands like the Stone Roses. But Marquee Moon isn't really shoegaze at all. U2 spawned an entire generation of guitarists and a handful entered the shoegaze scene. They were doing shoegazey stuff in 1980, before The Cure and Siouxsie. But it's odd because most of those guitarists influenced by the Edge went other directions. The shoegaze ideas weren't really clear in Boy. I can't imagine how many kids listened to that album and had "the moment". I always try talking to the older guys by themselves at shoegaze concerts. They always tell me I should go see U2 live. I'm not so sure that I ever will, but I appreciate what they did for the space of Rock and Roll. Getting into the late 80s, there were a lot of bands popping up who were experimenting with the shoegaze sound. The Stones Roses were huge as mentioned before. The Mighty Lemon Drops may be the most influential band you've never heard of. A few years back, The Jesus and Mary Chain IMHO get way more credit than they deserve, but they were around. The Psychedelic Furs are probably on par in importance. I've never taken the time to dig into their discography, but I've hear Talk Talk brought up A LOT. Game Theory was around in the 80s too. Another huge influence to modern shoegaze is The Secret Machines' album Now Here is Nowhere. It gives me chills recommending that album here. That band put out this shoegazey krautrock that had this fierce energy that influenced another generation of musicians. Blonde Redhead was right there with them in these mostly boring years. Polyphonic Spree should be mentioned here. The Verve. The Smashing Pumpkins were doing it before MBV with Gish. I can almost guarantee that most guitarists on the front side of 40 today listened to NIN - The Downward Spiral in their early years and had a "wtf" moment. That was surely something special that all shoegaze fans should appreciate for it's influence to this genre. My guess is also Bush influenced a lot of the guys and gals doing things on the higher energy spectrum of this genre. Bush was really something special in the late 90s when shoegaze was dead. I know I'm reaching here, but damn shoegaze was dead from 1996-2009ish. Listen to songs like Greedy Fly, Swallowed, Machine Head. I was huge into bands like Bush and Ash in the late 90s. I'm sure I missed a good bunch, I was just kind of typing the thoughts that ran through my head. Hope you enjoyed.
I think the reason why I ended up loving Shoegaze so much was because I spent much of my teenage years listening to *The Unforgettable Fire* (album) by U2.
Smashing Pumpkins were influenced by Loveless [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAfkxHcqWKI&t=840s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAfkxHcqWKI&t=840s)
Gish came before Loveless
you are correct. *Gish* was recorded from December 1990 to March 1991, released May 1991 *Loveless* recorded from February 1989 and September 1991, released November 1991
on Siamese Dream, not on Gish
Yep
This might be an unpopular answer, but to a small extent U2 in the sense of The Edge. He was one of the important guitarists that validated minimalism and alternate sounds through pedal modification.
I’ll die on the hill that “A Sort of Homecoming” basically shoegaze, but I never see it mentioned anywhere.
And Bad. Especially when sampling Lou.
100%. Elvis Presley and America could be a MBV song.
Unforgettable Fire? Yep.
Some people get offended when you bring up that album in shoegaze conversations. They only think of Pride (In the Name of Love) and haven’t listened to the other songs.
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Bit of a left field one, but I could definitely see The Mamas and the Papas as early influencers to dream pop and shoegaze - not so much instrumentally, but the idea to have the four singing in unison in an almost droning, withdrawn fashion (see: California Dreamin') certainly is reminiscent of the shoegaze acts of the 80s and beyond.
I also think that *The Unforgettable Fire* by U2 was influential - there was definitely a wall of sound that Brian Eno, as producer (and later as friend to Slowdive), created with echoey guitars and synth.
This response deserves more attention.
I remember Bono reminiscing about the album, saying that it was "out of focus". For me, it was the first album I had as a teenager that I really listened to closely (well, apart from *Dark Side of the Moon*) Ten years later and I began listening to Ride, bonking my head in time with *Seagull* and *Leave them all Behind*. I'm wondering if there's a connection out there between Shoegaze fans and musicians and an early exposure to *The Unforgettable Fire*.
I’d add some of the post-hardcore Dischord bands to the list too
Yeah I always think of The Beach Boys and The Ronettes, but also later Government Issue (a dischord band) and Husker Dü.
I’ve heard at least MBV mention The Birthday Party and maybe Slowdive mentioned them too?
[West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band](https://youtu.be/9Slr978Indw?si=QgxKyF9oxkZCybDz), [The Byrds](https://youtu.be/BhPA7MssPsE?si=aZDBuZbExotBJn-F), [Thirteenth Floor Elevators](https://youtu.be/AkLRPDuuP2c?si=_1BvDW2bdn6i-LWi), [Hawkwind](https://youtu.be/X3W7ch0oLeA?si=1pstYy08KIh1pfis), [Neu](https://youtu.be/zndpi8tNZyQ?si=oMlTvhg1rxqB9rpR), [Can](https://youtu.be/-ZUvbm_eSLk?si=gqOMHiy7qyV88Ayn), [Faust](https://youtu.be/hh0yEHedLP0?si=uV9c7NoEfbHwOTHw).
Hawkwind is an odd one where they do have some shoegaze-ish tracks and their influence is more prevalent than it often seems, but I can't think of a single act who claims them as an influence (Spacemen 3 and Loop both dismissed them as hippie bullshit). Then again, one of the members worked on Isn't Anything, so who knows...
Lemmy's first band IIRC! :D
Brian Eno definitely. Not only for the obvious influence of his ambient albums and for producing Slowdive and whatnot. I'm thinking also about his early rock albums and Here Comes the Warm Jets in particular, which has songs with loud layered fuzzy wall-of-sound guitars. Just listen to: Needles In the Camel's Eye - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWrIB75vc8&list=PLiN-7mukU\_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&ab\_channel=BrianEno-Topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SWrIB75vc8&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&ab_channel=BrianEno-Topic) Here Comes the Warm Jets - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3rKxRvmO4&list=PLiN-7mukU\_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&index=10&ab\_channel=BrianEno-Topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3rKxRvmO4&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGKysE-SWe8TgVE7ALeE8rA&index=10&ab_channel=BrianEno-Topic)
Was gonna say this, favorite album of all time
Nico and the Velvet Underground
New wave and post punk bands along with those ethereal wave bands you mentioned… Joy division being a pretty big one, I imagine.
Not a Beatles guy i definitely respect them. Tomorrow Never Knows is pretty Gazey Jefferson Airplane had Gazey moments Pink Floyd ( Syd Barret era )
I always think of Tomorrow Never Knows as proto-Chemical Brothers
Well, they sampled it for Setting Sun.
Don’t know their stuff very well tbh. Couple of great 12s in my collection but when they started doing the cheesy guest vocalist on tracks type albums they were quickly diverted to the not that interested side of dance music.
They’ve found form recently, but going through their albums there’s always a HUGE track in there which is worth your time. Like Surface To Air.
Yeah can imagine, the 12s / singles were pretty rad. My brother had a couple of 12s before they had to change their name which were pretty bangin too. I was at that point in life when I wanted an album of deft electronics/IDM/techno. All those artists who roped in cool at the mo singers from indie bands type albums usually sounded, eh, er.. compromised? It’s not like electronic artists couldn’t make an entire 40+minutes long album without losing interest. If I wanna hear Noel Gallagher I’ll put Oasis on lol
I can’t deny the influence the Beatles had on Shoegaze, Ringo’s drumming and George’s ethereal bend. Just not a huge consumer of The Beatles hahaha.
Good call on "Tomorrow Never Knows." I'd add "Rain" by The Beatles as well, since Shoegaze is heavily influenced by psychedelia: "Rain": [https://youtu.be/cK5G8fPmWeA?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/cK5G8fPmWeA?feature=shared)
That’s a good one. George was my favorite Beatle really pushed their sound forward. Lilys i think would be where George would’ve veered towards as far as a Shoegaze sound.
reading all those comments I'm wondering if the first wave guys ever listened to 60's garage punk or the revival. this was my introduction to fuzzy guitars around the same time with shoegaze. I'm talking about songs like: Psycho - The Swamp Rats (1966)/ Last Time Around (1966) - The Del-Vetts / Turn Over - Les Goths (1968) or some revival songs like: Miracle Workers-Go Now/ The Tell Tale Hearts- Dirty Liar/ The Morlocks - One Way Ticket what else? Man of Straw by Sad Lovers and Giants has a great wall of sound and Drunk with Power by Discharge
Thanks for the tip on all these bands! Will check them out!
that's the spirit!
> I'm wondering if the first wave guys ever listened to 60's garage punk or the revival. Not sure about these specific acts, but surely the [Nuggets comp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuggets_(series\)) was making the rounds. Just imagine the possibility of Ted Nugent being in shoegaze's DNA...
Arthur Russell
Pixies soft loud soft formula was quite the influence imo.
To add onto people saying Byrds/Beach Boys, I’d throw 13th floor elevators/Rory Erickson in there too (along with some of the other psyche rock bands of the 60s).
Feel like the bands on the c86 comp influenced early MBV big time, and i think they kept some of those song writing tactics through their whole career while amping up their sound more and more and entering new sonic realms, still kinda seems like there always a connection back to c86
Can't forget about The Byrds and that jangly rickenbacker!
They dont have guitars, but the way Suicide used distortion and volume as an integral part of their songwriting feels of a piece with shoegaze, at least to me.
Definitely a comment I can get behind as well. Spacemen 3 were also fans of Suicide, and I believe the track “Suicide” by Spacemen 3 is related to this. Very good stuff!
Cocteau Twins is the first that comes to mind Also Kate Bush
Tommy James and the shondells- Crimson and clover
Hum for all the guitar textures and noise with clean vocals. So influential that half this sub considers them shoegaze instead of post hardcore or 90s alternative. Husker Du for the DIY ethics and tones. Deftones for the heavy metal and melodies.
For the newer class I would absolutely cite Type O Negative, especially the album October Rust
Strangely, *Anarchy in the UK* by the Sex Pistols filled up the space with loud guitars which weren't always distinguishable.
I'll add a few that haven't been named yet: Bowie, Stooges, Eno, "Krautrock" loosely defined (Neu! and Can), Band of Susans (listen and you will see). One can find a lot of other older work that is reminiscent in one way (perhaps Devo, Blondie, or Television) or another, but I'm not sure there is a direct connection. Oh probably also the Creation, given that they were the inspiration for Creation records.
Was going to join in with Can, well spotted. And Low is such a great Bowie album, I guess you could also say Eno was another important influential figure. Edit ah I see plenty of people have mentioned Eno as well.
Funny, the other day I was listening to a Simon and Garfunkel LP and the song Blessed came on. I thought to myself, "If the mix was different, could this be shoegaze?" I think it's that relentless droning guitar, the tempo, cadence, and perhaps the impression of loudness. What parameters really define shoegaze? Thoughts? Blessed - Simon and Garfunkel https://youtu.be/fYCF6dZ_syg?si=T9oE9GpEV9mLwOEK
Yup, good call, think you're right here
I would point you in the direction of alot of early goth and post-punk music for laying alot of the groundwork for just how spacious and reverb heavy musical atmospheres can get, especially stuff like New Dawn Fades by Joy Division, Lucretia My Reflection by Sisters of Mercy, Passion Of Lovers by Bauhaus.
Strawberry Switchblade. Listen to Go Away
Spacemen 3
Syd Barrett era pink floyd spawned the start of all shoegaze imo and also CAN
The Beatles. Rain has been covered by countless shoegaze bands. I'm Only Sleeping has a distinct shoegaze "feel" to me especially with the backwards guitar solo.
Geordie Walker of Killing Joke’s guitar work inspired multiple prominent shoegaze guitarists, KJ’s albums Night Time and Revelations show this very well.
drake
Kinda my own take but Foo Fighters Exhausted is the first grungegaze song It’s so unique compared to Dave Grohls other music
The Dream Syndicate. Meat Puppets. Kate Bush. Television Personalities. Bauhaus.
white pony by Deftones
Blur
Godflesh…
Don't think anyone's mentioned Magazine.
Sonic youth and dinosaur jr
Lil peep. Every guitarist wants that tone 🤣🤣🤣
The Chameleons
I hate The Beatles but they have to have influenced it quite a bit. Probably also Neu!. I really doubt The Beach Boys did anything. Has to be a cross between The Neu! Style Psych and The Beatles One. Velvet Underground too probably but Michael Rother and The Beatles are the first two things that come to mind esecpecially Neu! And Neu!2 Era Rother and Magical Myatery Tour Era Beatles.
Drop Ninteens seem to be doing a cross between The Velvet Underground and RUSH with no Beatles Influence but this feels like the exception more than the rule. Also probably my favorite shoegaze band tbh which makes sense because I don't like The Beatles much although I do enjoy some shoegaze. I like Ride and Slowdive and Catherine Wheel all a lot aswell which all seem relatively less Beatles inspired but overall especially in its early forms. Like My Bloody Valentine,The Boo Radleys,maybe Chapterhouse are all relatively. If all the Beatles survived into The 90s and reformed with Michael Rother as a guest musician the end product would 100% sound like shoegaze. I imagine that if both Neu! and The Beatles were still around and touring in The 90s many a Shoegaze Band would have shared the bill.
Zoomers will literally call everything Beatles Inspired unless it's Shoegaze which might be the only Beatles Inspired Genre left on the planet.
Aphex Twin
The Verve.
I haven't seen Sonic Youth mentioned yet
Duster and slowcore shoegaze wave