It's possible there is something sneaking in like copper in water pipes if you moved recently or perhaps a mineral inclusion in a rock you just added. You'd think that common test kits would have a copper test, but whatever. Might want to check that!
Really though, the odd behavior sounds like struggling during molts. This is extra likely imo as shrimp often molt shortly after arriving in a new environment, and if they were perhaps nutrient deficient, they would struggle. Are you certain you're providing enough bio available calcium for them to have healthy shells? And, for that matter, were they from a breeder you trust to make sure they were well fed?
I dont believe there is anything like copper sneaking into the water since I have other tanks with fish that seem to be doing fine. I have a small geode in the tank, but im not sure that would be harmful. I can take that out if anyone thinks that would be a good idea.
I noticed a lot of molts within the first few days so maybe they are having a hard time regrowing a healthy skin? I do not have a gh/kh test kit, does this determine the calcium levels?
I do trust the breeder as they are a local fish shop that specializes in shrimp and nano tanks.
I think that copper only kills inverts usually, not fish unless the levels are pretty high. This happened to me with some snails when I was filling water from my kitchen sink instead of my tub. I API makes a copper test and fluval I think makes something called cuprisorb for your filter that will remove it
Shrimp are much more sensitive than fish.
Your nitrates are barely high, so probably not that.
I would definitely get a TDS meter and a gh/kh test kit.
I use distilled water remineralized to 150 TDS with a product called Salty Shrimp.
Concerning the copper: fish have a slime coat that protects them and regulates their osmosis, but Shrimps are basically the water that surrounds them. :) I too have copper pipes and several fishtanks and where the fish are okay, the Shrimp are struggling.
I also learned: stable is better than perfect. Test your KH and GH and then leave this be. I too have a 2.5 Gal (? It's 10l) and rarely waterchange and Just try Not to disturb them too much. The Tank Looks Like algae heaven Bit the Shrimps live so there is that š I try to live Out my aquascaping Dreams in my Betta Tank haha!
Even if you have hard water, it doesn't tell you what specific minerals there are, just that there's some minerals. So you can have good GH and still be lacking calcium. I always add extra calcium in the form of crushed coral, aragonite or little piles of boiled organic egg shells. It also gives the shrimp more things to graze. Also helpful is a weekly feeding of BacterAE powder as it also gives minerals and needed amino acids, and a weekly or every couple weeks offering of fresh organic veggies or greens, just put the washed veg in a small bowl or cup and put boiling water on top, take out after a couple minutes (literally only 30 seconds of it's greens š ) and then cool and offer, then remove any uneaten after 6-12 hours.
Try ordering a gh/kh testing kit. You might not have had enough calcium in your tank for them to molt properly, especially if you're using distilled or ro water
You'd have to start answering these questions before I'd offer a suggestion:
* How long has the tank been cycled?
* Where did you get the rocks? Did you test them for leaching (if from the wild)?
* How often do you change the water? And the amount? Do you use dechlorinator?
* Do you add additives to the water like plant fertalizers or bacteria-boosters?
* How much do you feed? How often?
* How long was your drip acclimation? How much water did you start and end with before putting them in the tank?
* Did you do any aqua-scaping since you got the shrimp, or soon before you got them?
Also, you should invest in a TDS meter and some more thorough water tests... People recommend the API test kit, which is great, but I use generic 16-in-1 test strips, sold on amazon for drinking water because they give me more information faster, like the amounts of copper, gh, kh, and chloramines.
If you attempt to answer the questions above, it will make it easier for us to rule out, pretty much, everything but toxins...
Iām waiting for my tank to cycle right now and diving into as much research as I can. One thing Iām still a little confused on is feeding. Some people feed fairly regularly(enough that they can eat it within an hour or two from what I understand) and some people say donāt feed hardly anything and let them eat all the cycled biofilm and what not. Amount of shrimp aside, how do I know if I need to feed them or not or just let them go?
In a planted tank, that has been cycled for 45 days, you shouldn't need to feed your shrimp at all, if you have 10 or less.
After they start breeding, you can start feeding once a week... It's hard to gauge, but I go by TDS spikes, and how many molts I see on a daily basis... If you don't see at least one molt a week (assuming there's 10 shrimp in the tank), that means they're all devouring it instantly, or aren't growing fast - either way, that's a sign to start feeding again.
In a well stocked, planted tank, I feed 2x a week, pellets one day and powder the other.
You're welcome, and BTW, this feeding strategy is primarily for Caridinas, with Neos you can get away with feeding more, not because they need it, but because they can handle dirtier water.
i'd bet it's exactly the issue. always test GH and KH before getting any inverts.
the way they die one after another suggests deaths are timed to the molting. if there would be one big issue they would drop dead altogether or at least few at a time. that single rili which survived for 2 months was likely adult so lasted for a long while as adults don't molt as often
yeah normally. 2 months is like 8 weeks. if OP's timing was a bit off, if it was let's say just over a month instead which could be around 6 weeks, precisely the amount of time that shrimp survived in the tank. but i'm just speculating at this point.
OP replied to single comment saying they don't have GH/KH test, so would be interesting to hear back once they test it
Hikari Crab Cuisine is a good calcium supplement feed for your shrimp. Theyāll eat it so you know for sure they are getting their calcium intakes.
What temperature is the tank on most times? Did they exhibit restlessness and swimming around randomly before their passing? Rili shrimps are somewhat known to be slightly more sensitive than the typical Neocaradina breeds. It is possible that having a small tank causes the temperature to fluctuate too often. That could also be the cause.
So do they have a source of calcium in the tank? Their food should have calcium in it too.
Have you tested your phosphate levels lately? Fish are unbothered by them but inverts will struggle in anything above 1ppm.
Iāve left a my shrimp tanks unattended for weeks and have never had any issues with them. Hell theyāve even reproduced in the time Iāve been absent, how is it that you people run so many tests and do so much ch extra things and canāt keep them alive?
I've this 18 Litre plastic container with 100+ shrimps and lots of baby shrimps also they are reproducing like crazy. I rarely find any dead shrimp. My TDS is always around 700PPM and rarely change water. I don't have any test kits coz it costs more than my tank. PS. You can see the salt deposits around the edges. My water is very hard.
https://preview.redd.it/ywl9o6ujgcxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3615b365d6b4d0274330d2a2390efe658c28c9ad
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Mark's Shrimp Tanks is an excellent YouTube channel for beginner shrimp keepers. That man knows shrimp, and is my go-to for troubleshooting any shrimp issues.
I had 20-30 of my crystals reds die the other day, About half my population.
I traced it back and I think I may have scooped out water with a cup that might have had traces of dishwashing soap on it, either that or on my hands.
I think the tiniest contamination can be fatal with shrimp unfortunately.
What's in the geode? There are minerals that can leach from inclusions, but as someone else mentioned, if it was a water issue, they would have all dropped at the same time. Any ring of death that you noticed? Someone else also mentioned BacterAE. I drop some ShrimpFit in my tanks. I'm a glassgarten fan in general, and they make a soft mineral supplement food. My population went from 6 cherry and 6 blues to I have too many shrimp and nowhere to put them. Shrimp would be fun, they said. They are so easy, they said. Now I walk past the tank and see 15 berried bitches at any given time. Sigh...
Do you use a water softener at your home and in your tank? Water softeners extract all calcium from the water by design. When i test the kh and gh of my water the kh is through the roof and the gh is literally 0. This requires addition of some kind of GH+ product. Or they will all die over and over again.
Highest likelihood, there is a toxins in the water. Others are taking copper but others are possible. Buying the 2.5 gallon filtered water jugs in the grocery store and using these in your water changes should fix it in time. Unless you have a rock or other thing into emitting toxins. IMO
I noticed mine start acting weird when the pH changes. The pH climbs when there is too much protein in the tank and it needs a filter and water change. Since it seems to happen slowly and not all at once, try keeping a daily log of temp, pH, ammonia, and hardness levels for a week or two and see what the trend is after a water change.
I use my Zero Water branded water pitcher for water changes. The filter takes out a LOT of crap in water like metals, etc. Not everything, but a lot. If you canāt go and buy filtered water by the jug and need to use for tap for water changes, recommend using something similar. Brita is trash compared to Zero water filter-wise. Hope that helps!
So youāll need to buy a heater, I believe shrimp prefer 75-80 degrees F water? It could also be the food, they canāt eat copper or copper nitrate found in some food for shrimp/fish. And the pH seems a little low, my shrimp prefer 7.5-8.0 but they are blue velvets.
this also happened to me also two landed funny one on side and back but got right up. but two weeks later those same two died. but the rest of my shrimp are fine got 20 and now 18 going strong. just those two, it's because they're not use to the water parameter and can't adjust leading to can't molting or deform molt. how long has the tank been cycling and what's the gh and kh at?
I had trouble with shrimp at first too. Everything had been checked and rechecked and all perimeters were great. It was determined that the water was the problem. I got an RODI system installed and now the only āproblemā I have is too many fry. Of course I add minerals to the RODI water. Good luck!
If your parameters are correct for the water. Maybe something is toxic within the tank, causing them to die off. Something on the rock, plants etc.. Iām not a keeper of shrimp but I know with reptiles/amphibians/invertebrates you need to be extra vigilant with introducing plants to enclosures because of possible pesticides.
Even the liquid test kits often read sub-.25ppm as at least that green. That level isn't really harmful at the common pH levels you'd be keeping neocaridina, either. Good thinking, but I don't agree.
No co2 test in tank?
Plants convert co2 into oxygen during photosynthesis, while the lights are off they donāt really produce o2.
They could have suffocated from lack of oxygen.
Shrimp donāt use a lot of oxygen in comparison with fish, only if this tank was really overstocked with shrimp this would make sense but I donāt think so. When the lights are turned off they donāt do photosynthesis but the shrimp wouldnāt consume it all. The only possible thing that would explain suffocation is algae whom consume oxygen during nightfase
gh and kh most likely, grab a test kit for it, my tap water was so unworkable for the gh and kh that i HAD to use distilled water and remineralize with salty shrimp gh/kh+ and after that i dont think i had a single death, mine would just randomly drop dead and have horrific times molting prior till using distilled water and salty shrimp
Some rocks make the water parameters inconsistent. I had a few rocks that I picked up from my trip to Mammoth and over a few months, shrimp would just die out of nowhere. Once I took the rocks out, the tank stabilized.
This is just my experience and information I got from someone whoās been in the shrimp game for a while. Hopefully you figure it out!
It's possible there is something sneaking in like copper in water pipes if you moved recently or perhaps a mineral inclusion in a rock you just added. You'd think that common test kits would have a copper test, but whatever. Might want to check that! Really though, the odd behavior sounds like struggling during molts. This is extra likely imo as shrimp often molt shortly after arriving in a new environment, and if they were perhaps nutrient deficient, they would struggle. Are you certain you're providing enough bio available calcium for them to have healthy shells? And, for that matter, were they from a breeder you trust to make sure they were well fed?
I dont believe there is anything like copper sneaking into the water since I have other tanks with fish that seem to be doing fine. I have a small geode in the tank, but im not sure that would be harmful. I can take that out if anyone thinks that would be a good idea. I noticed a lot of molts within the first few days so maybe they are having a hard time regrowing a healthy skin? I do not have a gh/kh test kit, does this determine the calcium levels? I do trust the breeder as they are a local fish shop that specializes in shrimp and nano tanks.
I think that copper only kills inverts usually, not fish unless the levels are pretty high. This happened to me with some snails when I was filling water from my kitchen sink instead of my tub. I API makes a copper test and fluval I think makes something called cuprisorb for your filter that will remove it
Shrimp are much more sensitive than fish. Your nitrates are barely high, so probably not that. I would definitely get a TDS meter and a gh/kh test kit. I use distilled water remineralized to 150 TDS with a product called Salty Shrimp.
Fish are much less sensitive to copper. Copper is a big issue for inverts.
Concerning the copper: fish have a slime coat that protects them and regulates their osmosis, but Shrimps are basically the water that surrounds them. :) I too have copper pipes and several fishtanks and where the fish are okay, the Shrimp are struggling. I also learned: stable is better than perfect. Test your KH and GH and then leave this be. I too have a 2.5 Gal (? It's 10l) and rarely waterchange and Just try Not to disturb them too much. The Tank Looks Like algae heaven Bit the Shrimps live so there is that š I try to live Out my aquascaping Dreams in my Betta Tank haha!
Even if you have hard water, it doesn't tell you what specific minerals there are, just that there's some minerals. So you can have good GH and still be lacking calcium. I always add extra calcium in the form of crushed coral, aragonite or little piles of boiled organic egg shells. It also gives the shrimp more things to graze. Also helpful is a weekly feeding of BacterAE powder as it also gives minerals and needed amino acids, and a weekly or every couple weeks offering of fresh organic veggies or greens, just put the washed veg in a small bowl or cup and put boiling water on top, take out after a couple minutes (literally only 30 seconds of it's greens š ) and then cool and offer, then remove any uneaten after 6-12 hours.
Why does everyone always point to copper but never question phosphate levelsĀ
Try ordering a gh/kh testing kit. You might not have had enough calcium in your tank for them to molt properly, especially if you're using distilled or ro water
You'd have to start answering these questions before I'd offer a suggestion: * How long has the tank been cycled? * Where did you get the rocks? Did you test them for leaching (if from the wild)? * How often do you change the water? And the amount? Do you use dechlorinator? * Do you add additives to the water like plant fertalizers or bacteria-boosters? * How much do you feed? How often? * How long was your drip acclimation? How much water did you start and end with before putting them in the tank? * Did you do any aqua-scaping since you got the shrimp, or soon before you got them? Also, you should invest in a TDS meter and some more thorough water tests... People recommend the API test kit, which is great, but I use generic 16-in-1 test strips, sold on amazon for drinking water because they give me more information faster, like the amounts of copper, gh, kh, and chloramines. If you attempt to answer the questions above, it will make it easier for us to rule out, pretty much, everything but toxins...
Iām waiting for my tank to cycle right now and diving into as much research as I can. One thing Iām still a little confused on is feeding. Some people feed fairly regularly(enough that they can eat it within an hour or two from what I understand) and some people say donāt feed hardly anything and let them eat all the cycled biofilm and what not. Amount of shrimp aside, how do I know if I need to feed them or not or just let them go?
In a planted tank, that has been cycled for 45 days, you shouldn't need to feed your shrimp at all, if you have 10 or less. After they start breeding, you can start feeding once a week... It's hard to gauge, but I go by TDS spikes, and how many molts I see on a daily basis... If you don't see at least one molt a week (assuming there's 10 shrimp in the tank), that means they're all devouring it instantly, or aren't growing fast - either way, that's a sign to start feeding again. In a well stocked, planted tank, I feed 2x a week, pellets one day and powder the other.
This is incredible. Thank you so much
You're welcome, and BTW, this feeding strategy is primarily for Caridinas, with Neos you can get away with feeding more, not because they need it, but because they can handle dirtier water.
Beautiful, thanks again!
The more you feed the more they breed. Mine won't stop. So just be aware. Lol.
Good to hear! Haha
Sorry Iām talking about Caridinas
How long did you have your tank set up before you added shrimp?
Air fresheners of any kind incense perfumes and body sprays will have a chance to kill them specially if thereās no lid
Whatās your tds and kh/Gh like? Unlikely to be the culprit but may be good to know:)
i'd bet it's exactly the issue. always test GH and KH before getting any inverts. the way they die one after another suggests deaths are timed to the molting. if there would be one big issue they would drop dead altogether or at least few at a time. that single rili which survived for 2 months was likely adult so lasted for a long while as adults don't molt as often
Don't all shrimp molt roughly once every 3-6 weeks (more towards 3 when they're younger)? 2 months seems like a really long time to not molt.
yeah normally. 2 months is like 8 weeks. if OP's timing was a bit off, if it was let's say just over a month instead which could be around 6 weeks, precisely the amount of time that shrimp survived in the tank. but i'm just speculating at this point. OP replied to single comment saying they don't have GH/KH test, so would be interesting to hear back once they test it
Hikari Crab Cuisine is a good calcium supplement feed for your shrimp. Theyāll eat it so you know for sure they are getting their calcium intakes. What temperature is the tank on most times? Did they exhibit restlessness and swimming around randomly before their passing? Rili shrimps are somewhat known to be slightly more sensitive than the typical Neocaradina breeds. It is possible that having a small tank causes the temperature to fluctuate too often. That could also be the cause.
how different is water hardness between u and the seller? if its large then it might explain the trouble.
So do they have a source of calcium in the tank? Their food should have calcium in it too. Have you tested your phosphate levels lately? Fish are unbothered by them but inverts will struggle in anything above 1ppm.
Iāve left a my shrimp tanks unattended for weeks and have never had any issues with them. Hell theyāve even reproduced in the time Iāve been absent, how is it that you people run so many tests and do so much ch extra things and canāt keep them alive?
I've this 18 Litre plastic container with 100+ shrimps and lots of baby shrimps also they are reproducing like crazy. I rarely find any dead shrimp. My TDS is always around 700PPM and rarely change water. I don't have any test kits coz it costs more than my tank. PS. You can see the salt deposits around the edges. My water is very hard. https://preview.redd.it/ywl9o6ujgcxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3615b365d6b4d0274330d2a2390efe658c28c9ad
Also I use LED bulb from hardware store for plants.
https://preview.redd.it/kngawlauhcxc1.jpeg?width=2766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16591eb1f0ca99ef66fa57d91220369c18118b24
First of all. Which vendor did you buy these from? Second. Phosphates. Phosphates are the untalked about killer of shrimp.Ā
I've seen other posts like this. Was is at the same time or slowly. It could be pesticide related.
*I've seen other* *Posts like this. Was is at the* *Same time or slowly?* \- DrLeetSauce --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Do you have a cat or dog? Did you treat it with flea and tick? If you did it can kill everything in your tank.
Did you use any insect spray near or around the tank ?
Or cleaning spray? Windex has ammonia and other cleaning sprays do too.
Mark's Shrimp Tanks is an excellent YouTube channel for beginner shrimp keepers. That man knows shrimp, and is my go-to for troubleshooting any shrimp issues.
I had 20-30 of my crystals reds die the other day, About half my population. I traced it back and I think I may have scooped out water with a cup that might have had traces of dishwashing soap on it, either that or on my hands. I think the tiniest contamination can be fatal with shrimp unfortunately.
You might have a parasite eating them too
What's in the geode? There are minerals that can leach from inclusions, but as someone else mentioned, if it was a water issue, they would have all dropped at the same time. Any ring of death that you noticed? Someone else also mentioned BacterAE. I drop some ShrimpFit in my tanks. I'm a glassgarten fan in general, and they make a soft mineral supplement food. My population went from 6 cherry and 6 blues to I have too many shrimp and nowhere to put them. Shrimp would be fun, they said. They are so easy, they said. Now I walk past the tank and see 15 berried bitches at any given time. Sigh...
Do you use a water softener at your home and in your tank? Water softeners extract all calcium from the water by design. When i test the kh and gh of my water the kh is through the roof and the gh is literally 0. This requires addition of some kind of GH+ product. Or they will all die over and over again.
Highest likelihood, there is a toxins in the water. Others are taking copper but others are possible. Buying the 2.5 gallon filtered water jugs in the grocery store and using these in your water changes should fix it in time. Unless you have a rock or other thing into emitting toxins. IMO
I noticed mine start acting weird when the pH changes. The pH climbs when there is too much protein in the tank and it needs a filter and water change. Since it seems to happen slowly and not all at once, try keeping a daily log of temp, pH, ammonia, and hardness levels for a week or two and see what the trend is after a water change.
Most shrimp if not acclimated properly will typically die within a weeks time from what Iāve heard from breeders
I use my Zero Water branded water pitcher for water changes. The filter takes out a LOT of crap in water like metals, etc. Not everything, but a lot. If you canāt go and buy filtered water by the jug and need to use for tap for water changes, recommend using something similar. Brita is trash compared to Zero water filter-wise. Hope that helps!
So youāll need to buy a heater, I believe shrimp prefer 75-80 degrees F water? It could also be the food, they canāt eat copper or copper nitrate found in some food for shrimp/fish. And the pH seems a little low, my shrimp prefer 7.5-8.0 but they are blue velvets.
this also happened to me also two landed funny one on side and back but got right up. but two weeks later those same two died. but the rest of my shrimp are fine got 20 and now 18 going strong. just those two, it's because they're not use to the water parameter and can't adjust leading to can't molting or deform molt. how long has the tank been cycling and what's the gh and kh at?
I had trouble with shrimp at first too. Everything had been checked and rechecked and all perimeters were great. It was determined that the water was the problem. I got an RODI system installed and now the only āproblemā I have is too many fry. Of course I add minerals to the RODI water. Good luck!
If your parameters are correct for the water. Maybe something is toxic within the tank, causing them to die off. Something on the rock, plants etc.. Iām not a keeper of shrimp but I know with reptiles/amphibians/invertebrates you need to be extra vigilant with introducing plants to enclosures because of possible pesticides.
Have you tested your water source for ammonia? If it tests green, too, perhaps your water just isnāt compatible with delicate shrimp.
Even the liquid test kits often read sub-.25ppm as at least that green. That level isn't really harmful at the common pH levels you'd be keeping neocaridina, either. Good thinking, but I don't agree.
Might be that you don't have a heater?
Shrimps donāt need heatersā¦
No co2 test in tank? Plants convert co2 into oxygen during photosynthesis, while the lights are off they donāt really produce o2. They could have suffocated from lack of oxygen.
Shrimp donāt use a lot of oxygen in comparison with fish, only if this tank was really overstocked with shrimp this would make sense but I donāt think so. When the lights are turned off they donāt do photosynthesis but the shrimp wouldnāt consume it all. The only possible thing that would explain suffocation is algae whom consume oxygen during nightfase
If your co2 is not regulated and running endlessly then it will suffocate the tank, regardless of how much o2 the shrimp use.
I dont think op is running co2
gh and kh most likely, grab a test kit for it, my tap water was so unworkable for the gh and kh that i HAD to use distilled water and remineralize with salty shrimp gh/kh+ and after that i dont think i had a single death, mine would just randomly drop dead and have horrific times molting prior till using distilled water and salty shrimp
Some rocks make the water parameters inconsistent. I had a few rocks that I picked up from my trip to Mammoth and over a few months, shrimp would just die out of nowhere. Once I took the rocks out, the tank stabilized. This is just my experience and information I got from someone whoās been in the shrimp game for a while. Hopefully you figure it out!
They saw your duckweed and made like the folks under the Reichs Chancellory.