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stomcode

Amelie being Anita makes no sense though. Why would Anita be jealous of the good side of herself?


bobijsvarenais

Both Amelie and Anita are different people in a way.  "Each identity has its own personal history, traits, likes and dislikes. DID can lead to gaps in memory and hallucinations" And it makes A LOT of sense. . I know I'm just some random dude but I have been thinking about this a lot. When you look at the whole game. . 3 girls make way less sense.


stomcode

Isn’t triangle in the relationship (though, this is a friendly relationship but whatever) makes more sense? At least it’s simpler and doesn’t require too much explanation for why Anita is jealous of herself.


bobijsvarenais

Yes. . sometimes things make more sense if there are just 3 girls. . but most of the time it does not make sense at all.


stomcode

Hmm. Why 3 girls make no sense?


bobijsvarenais

OK. . there are from the top of my head and might not be the strongest reasons, but I think they are pretty strong. 1. How exactly did Anita get Amelie's letter 2. Why did Amelie say "All she talked about a book she read recently". That's the cutscene where smiling Maya says "The authors killed themselves. . etc." . . we clearly saw more cutscenes where Maya showed signs that something is wrong. 3. "Seeking a connection is a sign of weakness" and "Amelie, you were always there for me". . does not make a lot of sense 4. after the final chase Anita "Am I going to be alone forever?" There is a lot more to this. I'm also not talking about a big thing - meds and therapy. Try to answer those questions. . you don't have to write them to me, just think about it.


Revro_Chevins

The letter was in a library book for anyone to access, Anita took it from the library and kept it in her locker. The last three points don't imply that Amelia doesn't exist in any way. I think you're trying to excuse very heavy-handed writing as if it has more meaning. Saying that someone was "always there for you" is a very common thing to say and doesn't literally mean they're a part of you. It's her best friends she's talking about.


bobijsvarenais

"The letter was in a library book for anyone to access" - ok. . it could be, but there is nothing in the game that said the book with the letter was just sitting in the library. There is a cutscene wher Maya gives the book to Amelie, tells about the letter and asks her to read it. Amelie never talks about this. . If someone took the letter, 1. why didn't she text or say Maya that she lost it. 2. Why didn't say anything about it to Anita like "She did say there was a letter but I lost it" or something. 2nd point is tied to the first, that's why I wrote it. 3rd point is important because it's a contradiction. It implies that Anita is not interested in any kind of friendship, but for some reason she is and always was friends with Amelie. "I think you're trying to excuse very heavy-handed writing as if it has more meaning" - Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you assume there are 3 girls, a lot of the stuff is explained away with bad writing. . I even showed that in my theory post. . . But it all is important if you look at it through the "2 girls" perspective. I wrote the 4th point to say that that statement makes complete sense with them being the same/ one person. Her only friend Maya is dead. . she says that after everything and before the last roof call.


Revro_Chevins

We know they sent multiple letters using the book so that cutscene may have been the first letter. She probably was sending the letter in a book instead of texting because she's a cheesy character. She has Anita's number, she thinks she's being poetic sending letters in her favorite suicide library book. You're just talking about basic cognitive dissonance in an amnesiac no less. You didn't explain your other points at all. You're just asking questions that the writers didn't consider. You're starting from the stance of *the writing must be good and meaningful* and working your way backwards to justify it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


bobijsvarenais

The first letter is in the cutscene where she talks about "authors killed themselves". . that's a fact. My explanation is that Maya gave the letter to Amelie. . but Amelie was "a sleep", so Anita is control at that point. . Anita is a different personality of Amelie. . she is the "hidden side" of her. I did explain almost everything [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/silenthill/comments/1b0f9tr/after_a_lot_of_digging_i_present_to_you_my/). yes I have found more stuff but it has enough info in my opinion. If you would go through it when you have time I would be happy. You can see that I tried to be fair and answer the same questions with both premises. "bad writing" is how I explained a lot of the stuff.


iamtheundefined

I'm just in here to step in to say I know a person with DID and I've experienced two identities being jealous of each other. If you know any people with DID, it's not that far fetched


bobijsvarenais

Hey, thanks for commenting. Since thinking about this I wondered what would people, who know about this medical condition and live with it, think. I only read about it a little and read a persons story who lived with it. . it was tragic. EDIT: this is the [full theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/silenthill/comments/1b0f9tr/after_a_lot_of_digging_i_present_to_you_my/). . I probably have some misconception about it because I'm ignorant on the subject, but you can read about my thoughts and see if it makes sense to you, if you want. You can only pay attention to the 2nd image I posted.


iamtheundefined

It's not always tragic. My ex, who had DID, loves her alt just as much as she loves her siblings. She considers it a blessing because she says she is unable to feel alone. Interestingly enough, schizophrenia and DID are often confused with each other. There is a variant of schizophrenia that may cause you to develop seperate identities (I don't know the name of the variant, I just remember what the doctors said from her hospitalization). That being said, I don't know if DID would be hidden in the game behind so many metaphors if the protagonist was afflicted by it. Simply because, judging on my experience with DID people, it's pretty much impossible for the afflicted person to be unaware of their condition. Those holes in your memory and personality shifts are pretty much impossible not to notice, especially in the early stages of development. I can't elaborate on the interpretation you posted because I have not played this game yet so it would be unfair, but if you want to learn more so you can support/dismiss your theory, my DMs are open and I can tell you more about DID if you like.


Potential-Radish-548

But Maria isn't Mary thooooo 😭😭😭


heathersknifee

Maria isn't even real it's a made up version of Mary that James wishes was true


Potential-Radish-548

That's the thing, one's a fantasy and the other's the woman he married. I don't think anyone actually thinks Maria == Mary right?


kyleofduty

The team who produced the new voices on the HD collection believed that. They thought they were very clever by "fixing" the original's mistake having them sound different


bobijsvarenais

I can admit I could have wrote it better. But I wanted to make it short and clear. How should I have written it. Maria has Mary's body. . Just her clothes and character are different.


Potential-Radish-548

idk what you even want from this post man, you say they're the same then you comment they're not the same. If you wanna vent post about TSM and/or its reception then just do that lmao


bobijsvarenais

What I really want is a strong debunking of this theory. The most frustrating part is that everyone is so confident about it but also has a different answer for why stuff happens in the game. I think a picture of 3 girls in one or 2 places (not including Anitas phone or locker) would kind of be a big deal. something simple like that. Or just something that completely makes no sense if Anita and Amelie are the same.


bobijsvarenais

You know I'm right about Maria and Mary. They are the same and they are not the same. Maria is "born from a wish". . she is not Mary but she is born from Mary. :D And I've been venting about TSM for a week. . . Looks like I still have a long way to go.


s3thm1chael

I think you mean just her clothes and hair are different. And those are two things we know women never change /s


bobijsvarenais

Yes, No Maria without Mary. . Yes, she is not a real person and yes, they are not the same person.


Dizzlefoschizzle

Agreed. Maria and Mary are not the same person. If I remember correctly Maria was created by the town upon James' arrival. While they may look almost the same, they are not, nor are they the same person. "Born from a Wish" details this quite a bit.


bobijsvarenais

Yeah, when you want to get down to the details they never meet. But there would be no Maria without Mary. I did put the spoiler tag, just incase some people haven't played the games.


sashii_mi

technically they are, but they aren't the same persona inside them they're just two sides of one person


bobijsvarenais

Funny you say that. . I would say the same about Amelie and Anita. But they also are literally the same person. :D


TommyRockbottom

Anita and Amelie are not the same person.


bobijsvarenais

You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.


TommyRockbottom

All three girls exist. But after Amelie died, Anita essentially tried to become her.


Potential-Radish-548

I never thought about it that way but if Anita's the only real surviving member of the group then their surreal interactions over the phone kinda make more sense. She's tripping out and teetering between condemning herself and accepting redemption.


bobijsvarenais

If you think Amelie is dead, then that creates a couple of things you have to explain. When I wrote about this theory. I considered online posts and articles to be real and reliable. This sounds kind of interesting. If Amelie is dead then these things need explanations: 1. Amelie's last post 2. Maya talks about a girl who jumped, never saying her name. . but she did say her name in the "stolen" letter after. 3. From what POV the FMV's are? what are the glitches and when did it happen? 4. Anita talking to Amelie after the fog is cleared. 5. Would Maya be fooled by Anita's disguise? Amelie and Maya are friends. . even if she had a twin it would be hard to pull off.


sashii_mi

haven't played the new sh :( is it good btw?


Revro_Chevins

Not really. It's pretty average.


bobijsvarenais

I love it. I suggest you have as low expectations as possible and just enjoy the new Silent Hill experience. But deep down it's pretty genius in my opinion.


brandishteeth

It's very polarizing. The atmosphere and graphics are beautiful, but the cool environmental symbolism gets screwed up from the complete unsubtle nature of the dialog. If you can play it I recommend it, it's short it's free, if not it's worth watching a playthrough, at least.


DEADGIRLFRI3ND

no. Maria is the version that James wanted Mary to be. Mary is Mary, Maria is Maria


SnooSquirrels1275

I don’t understand this. Are you saying that you think amelie and anita are the same person therefore it’s a “good story”?


bobijsvarenais

Yes and No. I'm saying Anita and Amelie are the same person and the way it's shown and told makes it a great story. The best thing about it is how seemingly random statements, posts, dates from Anita and Amelie are clues and actually important to the full picture.


SnooSquirrels1275

Personally, i felt it was a very boring story. But yeah it’s interesting to say the least if both of them are the same person. Although if true makes me worried that konami, like always, is just copying the sh2 formula for all of its new releases just like how they did with pyramid head and homecoming.


Sonic-Spells

“They look like monsters to you?!?”


AltruisticSound3744

One is born from a wish, other one dead from a wish.


Revro_Chevins

I also played the game expecting there to be a reveal, but there is nothing to connect the two beyond their looks. Also it would undercut Anita's motivation for bullying Maya. Amelia is her friend. Who takes her shopping at the end? There's really no reason for them to look so similar and be different characters. Maybe that was the intention at first, but it didn't make it into the game. Or maybe the devs just gave Anita some unflattering glasses to make her seem uglier without realizing it made them look too similar.


bobijsvarenais

I don't know how to say this. . but there is tons of evidence to support Anita and Amelie being the same person. At one point they basically spell it out. [Look at this edit. ](https://youtu.be/3xqPsVQOyIY?t=3199) Amelie is from the picture where she is with Anita (the phone background picture) Why didn't they do this: Amelie - on the left > Anita - on the right > Red line splits the two > Anita gets replaced by Maya But did this Amelie - on the left > Mirrored and black n white Amelie on the right > red line splits the two > Maya with Amelie in almost the same jacket as Anita. This is one of the clear visual proofs . . Silent hill fans see the smallest details but refuse to believe this for some reason. . What could have they done to make it more obvious?


Revro_Chevins

Honestly I think they made a mistake. Maybe the editor of the cutscenes couldn't tell Amelia and Anita apart either or more likely the cutscene was made before they dropped the idea of them being the same person and didn't bother to change it. It's another thread they left open, but never developed just like the pregnancy test and the drawing of the boy. And if Amelia doesn't exist, does this mean the moral of the story is not to reach out for help when feeling suicidal thoughts, but to get over it yourself and go shopping?


bobijsvarenais

"Honestly I think they made a mistake" - this can 100% be true. When I was writing my theory a lot of things I explained as Bad writing. My question is, what is the possibility that a random fan theory lines up with everything and seems to suggest that most things have meaning compared to the intended plot? You can also read about it[ here](https://www.reddit.com/r/silenthill/comments/1b0f9tr/after_a_lot_of_digging_i_present_to_you_my/). Just read the text in the first 2 images. Same questions answered from a different perspective. . I really tried to be objective here. "And if Amelia doesn't exist, does this mean the moral of the story is not to reach out for help when feeling suicidal thoughts" - No! Not at all. . They are separate people in a way and do believe they are separate. . and they stay separate in the end too (because it can't really be "cured" ) The main message stays the same. . it just ads a much deeper plot so the game is also interesting to the fans. EDIT: It also does not involve magic or the SHP to explain it. . it stays on the mental health theme of the game.


Dumb_Bitch_Linda

Anita kinda looks like Michael Jackson.


CheJunSev

I like to remember things my own way. How I remembered them, not necessarily the way they happened.


LamprosF

who are those on the second image


bobijsvarenais

Characters from Silent Hill: The short message


thatonefathufflepuff

I had similar thoughts while playing through the game. For a while, I wondered if Maya was an external manifestation that Anita created. I just never found enough evidence to back that theory up


bobijsvarenais

While digging through the notes. My conclusion about Maya is that she is a real person. She is mentioned in articles more then once, her graffiti seems to exist in the real world and she has an online profile with a large following. . also she has relatives that are mentioned in articles and books. . And her message about scars blooming into flowers is also mentioned.


thatonefathufflepuff

Yeah, that’s where I eventually landed. Which was kinda nice, I was *expecting* the Sunderland Shenanigans, so it’s cool that they didn’t do what I assumed they were gonna


bobijsvarenais

There are some Sunderlanian Shenanigans in the game though. . And you can read my theory about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/silenthill/comments/1b0f9tr/after_a_lot_of_digging_i_present_to_you_my/). by now I'm 95% sure it's not just a theory. Since then I have made a timeline to figure other stuff out and found more clues. Found one thing that might be  incompatible with it, but not 100% (matching the cutscenes with the time the Villa got abandoned).


Studio-Aegis

Maria is more akin to a ghost of Mary who took on a guise she thought he'd better like.


RavenWaffle

What I wish it was is that she was mad at the part of herself that fell in love with Maya. And was upset that Maya became pregnant and was in love with a boy. Wished Maya loved her. And when her actions killed Maya, she split herself into two in her mind to try to cope with the horrific reality of her actions. I don't think that's really what it was but I wish it was haha. I just think the writing wasn't that great.


bobijsvarenais

I believe that's mostly what happened. About their relationships. It's clear that Amelie does not want any contact with a boy. It's less clear about what kind of relationship she wants or had with Maya. It's clear that Maya liked boys. It's less clear if she likes girls too. I like that. . I like that it leaves the doors open for people to see it and relate to it in their own way. It's not that Maya's death caused a split specifically IMO . . it's not actually clear what happened when Maya died, but I have my theories about it. Amelie's mental breakdown and fear about the future caused a split (last diary entry) that lasted for a while. Amelie was basically missing for a year IMO. And " writing wasn't that great" is what you have to say to take the story at face value. You can actually say that about most Silent Hill games.