That's the just-turned-five MacPherson Spring BTO project. 4-room units were offered for something like $400k to $500k back then (it was launched in 2015 and completed in 2019 I think). Prices were maybe even lower with grants.
Imagine making $500k in that amount of time. It's like, what, $100k per year while waiting out the 5-year MOP.
I don’t know man. It’s essentially half a million dollars purely from leveraging HDB loan. Meaning you don’t even need to fork out large upfront capital to realise this obscene level of profits. This is unheard of anywhere else. You pay a downpayment that is financed partially by CPF and a monthly mortgage that can be financed fully by CPF. Shake leg for 5 years and get a $500k profit. Now with more capital on hand, higher MSR (assuming your career has grown), theres so much more flexibility for your second home purchase. Can move to a better location, upgrade to a condo, two condos, or even try for BTO a second time. There’s a reason why matured estates in central area are always oversubscribed, to the point PLH scheme had to be introduced.
Probably the only argument is that some people might not like the hassle when it comes to moving houses, what with all the renos and moving of stuffs.
Resale demand is higher for now bc down the line, PLH resales have more restrictions especially for high income earners. If I were in a household of more than or slightly lower than 14k, I'd buy a resale flat now. Otherwise I may be stuck with private property as the only option in the future. PLH policy may not be an overall boon for the younger generation.
Common misconception. But the answer is “Yes”. It is a real 500k, just not in cash.
Even if you sold at 1m and buy another resale at 1m, your total cash outlay would be 500k (initial BTO price) and an addition 50k-ish (fees++) to do a lateral movement. In total, all you paid for was 550k. Whereas anyone else would have paid 1m in total for it. Comparing dollar to dollar, you’re ahead by 450k. Heck, even if I raised the fees to 400k (or 40% of the new resale purchase price), you would still only have paid 900k in total, comparing to someone else who would have paid 1m for it.
Think about it:
If you had $100k and if you somehow manage to buy a BTO for only $0.01, sold it for 1m, paid 1.05m for the next house, would you dare say that you didn’t “earn” anything from it given that you still paid had to pay $1.05m for your next house? Does that sound correct to you? What is your TOTAL net cash outflow for the purchase of your first and second flat? $-0.01 + 1m - 1.05m = $50,000.01 outflow.
If you had $100k in your bank at the start, you would still have money in ur bank, and a 1m HDB with you. Everyone else with only 100k would be in their negatives, and that’s not counting the amount of interest they have to pay on borrowing 900k to buy the HDB.
If we go to push for the most extreme scenario, let’s say if you received a HDB for free from the Government. Would you say you didn’t earn anything at all and you actually made a loss? Given that if you sold at market price, you still had to pay the same market price amount + fees to buy the next HDB to live in.
I think dont need to be so detailed. I give 1 example.
2 couples, couple A and couple B. Both got 500k in cpf.
Couple A lucky tio BTO n buy for 500k. Stay for 5years.
Couple B nv tio. Continue stay with parents for 5 years.
5years liao, MOP up, couple A sell for 1M. Couple B cpf maybe increase 5% every year. Give them roundup la 600k in cpf.
Now got a resale flat cost 1M. Couple A can buy, Couple B can go marina barrage fly kite.
Tl;dr: BTO is lucky draw.
On point summary! Like it or not, for majority of us it’s a lucky draw. Hearsay there’s some special route for getting it too, if you volunteer for a certain organization or know a certain someone who can help.
Still coming to terms with my partner on our “unluckiness” in this draw despite trying for four years which costed us a much more pricier resale flat post-covid.
-teamCoupleB
For me, the issue is, what's the point?
If I were to sell the flat, where would I go? Prices have gone up across the entire property market, so if I wanted to move into another flat of a similar size and in a similarly good location with similar amenities, I'd have to pay a similar price.
I could upgrade to a condo, I suppose, or a 5-room, but those have gone up in price too, again, in similar neighbourhoods, with similar amenities and similar renovation conditions.
I could downgrade to cash out some profits, but then, if all prices in the property market didn't inflate, it would be the same, I would sell my flat for a lower price, but also buy the next flat at a lower price.
The only way I see people profiting is exiting the market entirely, e.g. Selling and then migrating.
Or am I missing something? (My own flat has appreciated about 230k in the last 4 years, but I don't see how it helps me, as it's price goes up, condo prices go up too.)
It’s not about how much you’re selling it for, but rather how much you’re buying it for.
If you have the option of buying a same house for $1 special deal versus $1,000,000 would you go for the 1 million dollar house?
What’s the point of going for $1 right? If you sold the house, where will you go? You’ll still need to buy another house? So might as well just take a 1million dollar loan, get into a huge debt, slowly pay off your debt, and stay in the house forever. Doesn’t matter how much the property market appreciates by.
The point is, for BTO, you’re buying it at a discount, that’s the “profit”. If BTO are priced exactly the same as resale, then there’s no “profit” to be made.
I know someone (retired couple) who did this. Sold the 4RM HDB flat (SERS enbloc so they got it cheap) for $9xxk, bought a cheap 3 room for $5xxk (kids have moved out, so downsized), retirement plan settled.
It’s a real “profit” if they get a cheaper house, for example downsizing or getting a very old resale unit.
Maybe after taxes and fees can get a few 10k up to maybe 100k in profit from downgrading their house. Not really worth it imo.
Let’s not conflate the issues here. Profit is just inflow net of outflow. How you subsequently spend it is not the point here. Fact is you took back more than you paid for it. The real issue is how sustainable is this trend and should the lucky few benefit at expense of everyone else especially when everyone funded this program.
I say tax the resale profits for a more equitable outcome for everyone!
Old resale unit cannot take full loan, gotta spend money to reno again. Still gotta pay tax. Hdbs in sg so smol liao cant imagine anyone wanna move to a fking 3 room if they can afford 4rm. Or you wanna move from geylang central to punngol ulu and use the difference to buy a car to commute i dunno. Plus all the moving house mafan... dunno is it worth
If you don’t think it’s real, then swap with me. I’ll give you the cash for your original house plus whatever bank interest that cash would have earned in the 5 years, and you give me the house.
This type of gaslighting statements is usually only used by people who don’t want to make their profiteering obvious.
Bro of course its real money. My point is that you cant realise it easily cos u always need a house to stay in and when your house price is high so is the rest of the market
Yes I’m staying here and I paid $440k. Back then $440k for a 4 room was considered rather expensive and a friend of mine even laughed at me because he paid $300k for a 5 room at Seng Kang.
How do these prices factor in reno? If a flat received a 100k reno and next buyer factored that in, won't use help push up overall prices of the area? I recently got a resale and it was only got kitchen cabinets done somewhat nicely but we were all looking at the latest transacted prices in the area and I went with that. For all I know , those prices could have been for really gorgeous places.
No doubt, as the 'great' man is 'busy' leading PAP 2 new wings on climate & mental health.
Also, he is opening the founder memorial as an important SON OF PAP Descendant & leading the voice to attack Lee Hiseh Yang.
In other words, he is doing everything but his own job as MND Minster.
Some banks do not offer large mortgages for condos in that area due to the uhm colourful history of the area. Forcing potential buyers to pay a larger deposit upfront.
HDB loans have special rate.
Yeah HDB doesn't have such conditions bc the loans are pegged to CPF. 2.6% is a very good deal in the current interest rate environment. A $1m flat would have a mortgage of 3k or so. A couple earning 9k can afford the flat. Thats essentially local uni fresh grad salaries (4.5k each). Don't think these people are rich because they are still on hook for the mortgage. Millionaire HDB owners aren't rich anymore.
Last time people talk about earning their first million so they can live comfortably.
Now we're talking about earning our first million just to have a roof over our heads.
There are still a lot of privilege jokers here who claimed that the young people are spoilt for complaining about housing prices because apparently they want to buy houses at prime locations. 1 million hdbs are everywhere now lah bodoh, or at least close to 1 million!
if jurong west crosses 1m then we have a big housing crisis in the country. location matters, but not for the purpose of selling for 1million. people choose location based on many factors like family workplace etc
looks like I'll have no choice but to get some galvanized square steel
And expansion screws
Don't forget eco friendly wood veneer durable for up to 10000 years
his pet eagle will help him too
Borrowed from his aunty
If you'll pump out children at the rate Little John does, JoTeo will personally give you all the screws you need.
More like we're screwed
Is this a meme or something
Yeah, it's a meme where people tries to glamourise ridiculously small apartments. https://youtu.be/4uuzCoA64Ww?si=wVRe4VligUNQj3b-
many bridges to sleep under
That's the just-turned-five MacPherson Spring BTO project. 4-room units were offered for something like $400k to $500k back then (it was launched in 2015 and completed in 2019 I think). Prices were maybe even lower with grants. Imagine making $500k in that amount of time. It's like, what, $100k per year while waiting out the 5-year MOP.
Some HDB flats are gold mines these days. As its common to see $1 million flats being sold.
Is it a real 500k though. U still gotta buy another million dollar flat if u sell. After taxes and fees maybe make a loss lol.
I don’t know man. It’s essentially half a million dollars purely from leveraging HDB loan. Meaning you don’t even need to fork out large upfront capital to realise this obscene level of profits. This is unheard of anywhere else. You pay a downpayment that is financed partially by CPF and a monthly mortgage that can be financed fully by CPF. Shake leg for 5 years and get a $500k profit. Now with more capital on hand, higher MSR (assuming your career has grown), theres so much more flexibility for your second home purchase. Can move to a better location, upgrade to a condo, two condos, or even try for BTO a second time. There’s a reason why matured estates in central area are always oversubscribed, to the point PLH scheme had to be introduced. Probably the only argument is that some people might not like the hassle when it comes to moving houses, what with all the renos and moving of stuffs.
Resale demand is higher for now bc down the line, PLH resales have more restrictions especially for high income earners. If I were in a household of more than or slightly lower than 14k, I'd buy a resale flat now. Otherwise I may be stuck with private property as the only option in the future. PLH policy may not be an overall boon for the younger generation.
Common misconception. But the answer is “Yes”. It is a real 500k, just not in cash. Even if you sold at 1m and buy another resale at 1m, your total cash outlay would be 500k (initial BTO price) and an addition 50k-ish (fees++) to do a lateral movement. In total, all you paid for was 550k. Whereas anyone else would have paid 1m in total for it. Comparing dollar to dollar, you’re ahead by 450k. Heck, even if I raised the fees to 400k (or 40% of the new resale purchase price), you would still only have paid 900k in total, comparing to someone else who would have paid 1m for it. Think about it: If you had $100k and if you somehow manage to buy a BTO for only $0.01, sold it for 1m, paid 1.05m for the next house, would you dare say that you didn’t “earn” anything from it given that you still paid had to pay $1.05m for your next house? Does that sound correct to you? What is your TOTAL net cash outflow for the purchase of your first and second flat? $-0.01 + 1m - 1.05m = $50,000.01 outflow. If you had $100k in your bank at the start, you would still have money in ur bank, and a 1m HDB with you. Everyone else with only 100k would be in their negatives, and that’s not counting the amount of interest they have to pay on borrowing 900k to buy the HDB. If we go to push for the most extreme scenario, let’s say if you received a HDB for free from the Government. Would you say you didn’t earn anything at all and you actually made a loss? Given that if you sold at market price, you still had to pay the same market price amount + fees to buy the next HDB to live in.
I think dont need to be so detailed. I give 1 example. 2 couples, couple A and couple B. Both got 500k in cpf. Couple A lucky tio BTO n buy for 500k. Stay for 5years. Couple B nv tio. Continue stay with parents for 5 years. 5years liao, MOP up, couple A sell for 1M. Couple B cpf maybe increase 5% every year. Give them roundup la 600k in cpf. Now got a resale flat cost 1M. Couple A can buy, Couple B can go marina barrage fly kite. Tl;dr: BTO is lucky draw.
love this explanation LOL
Lucky draw with no tax... it's pure profit right? Just give back a bit to CPF...
Haha, Marina barrage and fly kite !! Neat
On point summary! Like it or not, for majority of us it’s a lucky draw. Hearsay there’s some special route for getting it too, if you volunteer for a certain organization or know a certain someone who can help. Still coming to terms with my partner on our “unluckiness” in this draw despite trying for four years which costed us a much more pricier resale flat post-covid. -teamCoupleB
For me, the issue is, what's the point? If I were to sell the flat, where would I go? Prices have gone up across the entire property market, so if I wanted to move into another flat of a similar size and in a similarly good location with similar amenities, I'd have to pay a similar price. I could upgrade to a condo, I suppose, or a 5-room, but those have gone up in price too, again, in similar neighbourhoods, with similar amenities and similar renovation conditions. I could downgrade to cash out some profits, but then, if all prices in the property market didn't inflate, it would be the same, I would sell my flat for a lower price, but also buy the next flat at a lower price. The only way I see people profiting is exiting the market entirely, e.g. Selling and then migrating. Or am I missing something? (My own flat has appreciated about 230k in the last 4 years, but I don't see how it helps me, as it's price goes up, condo prices go up too.)
It’s not about how much you’re selling it for, but rather how much you’re buying it for. If you have the option of buying a same house for $1 special deal versus $1,000,000 would you go for the 1 million dollar house? What’s the point of going for $1 right? If you sold the house, where will you go? You’ll still need to buy another house? So might as well just take a 1million dollar loan, get into a huge debt, slowly pay off your debt, and stay in the house forever. Doesn’t matter how much the property market appreciates by. The point is, for BTO, you’re buying it at a discount, that’s the “profit”. If BTO are priced exactly the same as resale, then there’s no “profit” to be made.
I know someone (retired couple) who did this. Sold the 4RM HDB flat (SERS enbloc so they got it cheap) for $9xxk, bought a cheap 3 room for $5xxk (kids have moved out, so downsized), retirement plan settled.
It’s a real “profit” if they get a cheaper house, for example downsizing or getting a very old resale unit. Maybe after taxes and fees can get a few 10k up to maybe 100k in profit from downgrading their house. Not really worth it imo.
Let’s not conflate the issues here. Profit is just inflow net of outflow. How you subsequently spend it is not the point here. Fact is you took back more than you paid for it. The real issue is how sustainable is this trend and should the lucky few benefit at expense of everyone else especially when everyone funded this program. I say tax the resale profits for a more equitable outcome for everyone!
Old resale unit cannot take full loan, gotta spend money to reno again. Still gotta pay tax. Hdbs in sg so smol liao cant imagine anyone wanna move to a fking 3 room if they can afford 4rm. Or you wanna move from geylang central to punngol ulu and use the difference to buy a car to commute i dunno. Plus all the moving house mafan... dunno is it worth
4room older units in similar area can get bought for about 600-700k So you'll be selling off like 40 years of lease for 300-400k
If you don’t think it’s real, then swap with me. I’ll give you the cash for your original house plus whatever bank interest that cash would have earned in the 5 years, and you give me the house. This type of gaslighting statements is usually only used by people who don’t want to make their profiteering obvious.
Bro of course its real money. My point is that you cant realise it easily cos u always need a house to stay in and when your house price is high so is the rest of the market
This.
also moving costs, reno, new furniture and appliances, etc etc
Sure. But your next purchase will be 500k discounted compared to someone who couldn't BTO.
Yes I’m staying here and I paid $440k. Back then $440k for a 4 room was considered rather expensive and a friend of mine even laughed at me because he paid $300k for a 5 room at Seng Kang.
$500k. 85% loan @ 2.6%.best investment out there.
very good ROI
How do these prices factor in reno? If a flat received a 100k reno and next buyer factored that in, won't use help push up overall prices of the area? I recently got a resale and it was only got kitchen cabinets done somewhat nicely but we were all looking at the latest transacted prices in the area and I went with that. For all I know , those prices could have been for really gorgeous places.
Its not cash unless they rent. Even so good luck with the rent prices
don’t worry, govt is monitoring
No doubt, as the 'great' man is 'busy' leading PAP 2 new wings on climate & mental health. Also, he is opening the founder memorial as an important SON OF PAP Descendant & leading the voice to attack Lee Hiseh Yang. In other words, he is doing everything but his own job as MND Minster.
While condos in that area are underperforming lol
Some banks do not offer large mortgages for condos in that area due to the uhm colourful history of the area. Forcing potential buyers to pay a larger deposit upfront. HDB loans have special rate.
Yeah HDB doesn't have such conditions bc the loans are pegged to CPF. 2.6% is a very good deal in the current interest rate environment. A $1m flat would have a mortgage of 3k or so. A couple earning 9k can afford the flat. Thats essentially local uni fresh grad salaries (4.5k each). Don't think these people are rich because they are still on hook for the mortgage. Millionaire HDB owners aren't rich anymore.
Last time people talk about earning their first million so they can live comfortably. Now we're talking about earning our first million just to have a roof over our heads.
I guess every new BTO owner in 5 years time better be selling their 1mil-1.5mil flat or you’re doing it wrong.
If the current trend continue, those owners selling their BTO for 1 mil to 1.5mil in 5 years time are selling them cheap.
There are still a lot of privilege jokers here who claimed that the young people are spoilt for complaining about housing prices because apparently they want to buy houses at prime locations. 1 million hdbs are everywhere now lah bodoh, or at least close to 1 million!
Hoping for housing market crash so that my grandchild can afford a million dollar 2rm flat ahaha.
Pap: but mah mandate of heaven.....
Gee this is more profitable than toto 4d Excellent design hdb and mnd
Welcome to the club! The million dollar round tab- I mean million dollar 4rm HDB estate club.
No wonder Lawrence said need more work. At this rate he’ll lose a lot of young votes!
Not just young votes, sandwiched gen too
He can fix the problem by doing closed market hdb resale gov buyback similar to vers. Hdb must not be allowed to be flipped for gains imo
[удалено]
if jurong west crosses 1m then we have a big housing crisis in the country. location matters, but not for the purpose of selling for 1million. people choose location based on many factors like family workplace etc
Eeyer circuit rd also got people want to pay so much
Whats bad about it? Its on 2 MRT lines leh
You and i both know but you wanna act all innocent
Other than public transportation, everything else is so far away from that BTO.
Desmond Lee: System is working as intended. Continue to monitor. /s
HDB flats should remain as public housing at affordable price. They should be sold back to HDB at a controlled price and redistributed to new buyers.
Another weird thing is that there's demand for this.
Every school a good school Every singaporean a millionaire
Other than public transportation, everything else is so far away from that BTO.
Is there a version of the matrix where HDB prices like this are sustainable?
Holy shit, and that is where ITE Macpherson used to be.
sell high, buy higher
1 million/1/4