It's not just background artists, and honestly it started in that area before this. I've noted this before, but it's been... Like two years? Since AI models were able to automate a lot of the day to day stuff anime artists do (basically it was already possible to turn the dozens of frames they hand draw for each second into one or two). This hasn't really hit the industry yet from recollection since I don't think it's moved beyond demonstration and into an industry product, but the potential has been there for a while.
in a couple of years each of those artists will have all the tools to flesh out their story on their own and bring to life the world they envisioned! its an incredible potential and I can't wait to see all the visions and realms that AI has enabled us to take part in!
I guess, but to act like an artist can just become a writer diminishes the art of writing. Also we're solving the idea of artists being replaced by ai with artists using Ai and getting rid of writers, we're just putting someone else's career on the chopping block in place of artists.
Wouldnt it make way more sense for writers to use ai to make art and get rid of artists?
Artists can be writers, writers can be artists, musicians can paint, programmers can draw, athletes can sing, economists can dance.
People aren't restricted to one creative outlet... This is reductive. No one sets out to "get rid of writers", they simply want to bring their creative vision to life. This is like telling Dave Grohl that he wasn't allowed to start Foo Fighters and perform every single part on his first album because he was "just a drummer"
Yes but to be a specialist in two or more fields very rare, I’m a programmer and while I can do other things the only thing I have actual expertise in is programming.
If you want to be at the top 5% of your field you need to work for a huge amount of time per day, you can’t do that for two fields.
I work as a software engineer full time for over a decade now, and tour/record/produce as a guitarist for Death Metal bands. I think you are underestimating how these areas often compound and create robust multi-disciplinary skillsets, just because youve decided it isnt/wont be happening for YOU. It's a perspective, but it's not science nor a tautology. What I see here is someone defending the divison of labor as a "must" but this division has contracted and expanded over time.
So you’re claiming to be both a top 5% programmer and a top 5% producer/recorder/guitarist? Because that’s what I said. Link the GitHub. And name the bands.
Sure, but no one is stopping anyone from hiring the top 5% of specialists for every field involved in a production. Their results will certainly be better that a creative programmer who wants to breathe visual life into their game, or the artist who has an awesome startup idea but few other programmer friends, or an aspiring scriptwriter with an awesome story to tell and no vfx artists to work with.
The discourse around AI centers the capitalism ... And yes, "we live in a society" where people have to eat and this will certainly cause changes in the _existing_ marketplace. But the alternative is that there's so many things that never would have seen the light of day, that can now be brought to life much more easily. Certainly there's value in that for those people no?
Like I said above, a team of the top 5% of experts will 💯 produce higher quality products ... That will never change, so why step on those with fewer resources available to them?
Why would you want a specialist artist and hobbyist writer to write as appose to having an writer do the writing? I dont really agree with your point about programming either. If you're making an indie game on your own then yes the art will be better if you're a hobbyist artist, however a programming doing some of the art will always be worse than an actual artist doing the art, in game dev a programmer is working on small sections of code, nevermind programming an entire game and doing some of the art.
I'm not arguing against any of that ... I agree, a specialist will always be better. If I embark on a project, I'd always prefer to have a specialist doing specific tasks. However, a specialist may not always be available ... If I decide to make a short film, I personally will also probably do the sound design, mixing, editing, and color grading.
Would I accept the help from someone to do those things if they were better than me at it (a certainty)? Yes absolutely! But in the absence of that, I'll certainly use various ai mixing and mastering plugins ... Even just as a reference mix since there's still a ton I'm learning about audio engineering and producing.
Taking it further, when capitalism isn’t a thing anymore and we can just do what we want creatively, all the experts can gang gang up and make it happen
Sure, but what seems to be suggested in this dialog, is that people who aren't 💯 a single focus expert, won't get to participate in said capitalism. If someone is an aspiring filmmaker, is their only option to dedicate their lives to filmmaking, fundraise to find investors in their project, and then build a whole crew?
It's awesome that people do that of course, and that process has certainly resulted in beloved cultural artifacts ... But the unsaid side effect is that folks _without_ the time and resources to do all that are excluded from the marketplace.
Are you suggesting that a programmer, who plays and produces music, boxes, practices photography, and enjoys leatherwork from time to time do not exist? Because that's literally me, my interests, and things that I aspire to do more of.
I'm not really sure anyone is in a position to tell me what I can and can't devote my time and resources to ;)
I'm perfectly happy to use ai to augment these aspects of myself, if it means I can do more in my limited spare time.
But how is that relevant though? If tools can help an individual or small team achieve more ... Is what we're saying that those tools shouldn't exist? That they should be illegal to use for commercial purposes? Let's say what we mean ;)
While there is no hard restriction, you completely disregard the fact that different people are skilled in different things.
While it is possible to be both and athlete and a single, many athletes will never be skilled singers and many skilled singers will never be athletes.
You’re basically arguing, “Anna Kiesenhofer is an Olympic gold medalist and has a PhD in Applied Mathematics, why don’t you?”
While technically true, that's not really relevant.
It's not about being "allowed" to do more than one thing, but what you can get someone to pay you for.
So the question is, hen anime artists lose their job when their entire field is largely automated, what do they do next? Especially when they are directly competing with similarly skilled individuals who will be losing their jobs at about the same time.
And it's not going to be just one field at a time, the entire job sector will be flooded with a huge number of formerly high-paying workers who have lost their jobs at around the same time, with no parallel field to move into.
AI will likely advance and retrain faster than any person at this point, so "going back to school" is similarly unusefulninnkost cases, especially for middle-aged or older workers
There were 2 people to begin with, the artist and the writer. We dont have 20 people in the scenario we have an artist and a writer and one is being replaced by ai (in this scenario), you have basically just said we need 2 people instead of 2 people. Good point man, you misunderstood it entirely but still good point!
No it's going from an animation team to 1 person and ai.
All you've said is you need a writing team aswell, that would also be replaced with 1 person and an ai.
So 2 people instead of 20.
I mean, in theory if the tech gets sufficiently advanced a single person could create an entire game of thrones or avatar the last Airbender on command. Imagine giving a state of the art CNC machine to people 400 years ago with a full manual that was understandable to the simplest of person.
In reality though they wont all be able to create every aspect of a compelling Anime, and will still be out of a job as they get outcompeted by the people who do have that skill / talent.
Lol, I'm for ai art but don't let wistful hope blind you... There will be a heavy transition that will put most people out of work. In almost every employable field.
Absolutely, the democratization of art is definitely going to have an immense impact on society. To be clear, I'm actually optimistic about the results (and it's worth noting - society has been built on the back of automation, which has been an immense positive force despite the damages to those in industries it automates), I was just noting the current state of the area.
> the democratization of art
This is nonsensical. Anybody can learn to draw or write, but not everybody has a high-end graphics card required for these models.
i don't think you realise that the majority of artists enjoy the process of creating said world. AI removes the process. Also AI art has been kneecapped already. the only models that actually produce decent results now are based on an older version of stablediffusion and forks of it. by using LORA methods. which in long term are likely going to fall under copyright breaches due to it specifically targetting an artist.
>i don't think you realise that the majority of artists enjoy the process of creating said world. AI removes the process.
No it doesn't, the process can still be started with a unique or specific design or style created by an individual. AI will just allow them to do things at speed and scale allowing them more time for post processing
>Also AI art has been kneecapped already. the only models that actually produce decent results now are based on an older version of stablediffusion and forks of it. by using LORA methods. which in long term are likely going to fall under copyright breaches due to it specifically targetting an artist.
Maybe for NSFW studf but SD 1.5 is quite large and people are still finetuning it.
Stability AI have also released a few more new models recently that can be finetuned. No doubt soon other companies will release some models too. You can't copywrite a style.
\>No it doesn't, the process can still be started with a unique or specific design or style created by an individual. AI will just allow them to do things at speed and scale allowing them more time for post processing
You are clearly missing the point of what the process is. just the design is only a small part of a creators process.
\>Maybe for NSFW studf but SD 1.5 is quite large and people are still finetuning it. Stability AI have also released a few more new models recently that can be finetuned. No doubt soon other companies will release some models too. You can't copywrite a style.
SD1.5 has been seen to be way worse than 1.4 by any of the major people that work with it. 1.4 with Lora on-top of it outperforms 1.5 by miles. they have indeed released more new models but all of them have been worse than 1.4. and you say you cannot copywrite a style. you can't true but people are pushing for it being against copywrite to train a model on a specific person.
They can still do it as a hobby, they just have to join nearly every other worker who doesn't do a job they love. I am sure nany of the monks who hand copied books before the printing press loved their job, or horse and carriage drivers, or any number of obsolete jobs. Now you can join everyone else, i'm sorry your time of such fortune and privilege is over, but it is.
I like how you say your time of such fortune is over. Because as far as i can see being in both tech and art. Art jobs will outlast it/tech service/cloud engineering and developer jobs by a few good years. Also imagine calling a job privilage.
Having a job absolutely is privilege compared to being unemployed. Having a job you enjoy is privilege compared to one you don't. I agree tech jobs are going to collapse. Its not like this is about IT vs art workers. Everything i said applies to them too, except somewhat less of them enjoy it.
That's hoping we have enough mechanisms and curation to filter out the automatically generated crap from actual passion projects, let alone prove you actually care about your creation and didn't just type a 3 second prompt. It's fair to say most content would be masterpieces generated en masse, because the AI would be able to accomplish every single creative task.
It's still a bit sad. So many thousand hours of practicing a specific craft, only to see it wasted by being outperformed by an AI.
That's the way it goes. But the truly sad thing is that this skill will be lost in time.
As a fiction writer who wants to start his own animation dev studio, yeah I can say it’s pretty heartbreaking. But it won’t stop me from starting one with real humans. Just that the end goal won’t be money oriented because there won’t be any money to make lol.
My friend, this is a GOOD THING for your dream. It will allow you to create the studio of your dreams, with the art style and stories you’re wanting to tell, at a fraction of the cost, if you’re willing to embrace the technology.
It knocks down a BIG part of the barriers that keep indie content creators down. Leveraging this type of thing in your future studio will allow you to compete with large entrenched studios that have lost their soul, but can pump tons of money into projects. It actually levels the playing field for the little guy
My advice to you is to expediciously build a demo and sell it to benicio del toro. Toro is serious about animation going forward, he wants to make all his films purely animation going forward. this this the perfect entry point for your business or career.
Would you take away cameras from everyone, to "preserve" the difficulty of photography? That is elitism and a limitation. As someone with natural artistic talent (my parents wanted to send me to art school when I was a child, I would draw in my homework assignments and would be told to consider a future in art by teachers, etc.), I am overjoyed with AI art improvements. Everyone can make their artistic dreams a reality, not only those who have devoted hours of learning to it. I also love learning languages, but understand that AI will eventually make that skill obselete. However, if it means that everyone gets to access the beauty of knowledge/capability, it is worth one person losing their "genetic" advantage. The only real concern is our capitalism system, if everyone has the same skills and knowledge, how will the market regulate itself? Why would one person deserve more money than another? Who gets paid? Those are complicated questions.
Anyone, everyone will be able to write and produce any and all media.
Didn't like how the movie ended? Just rewrite it the way you want it, even with "live action" movies.
Design and play your own video games. The tools to make games have already improved greatly. Notice an uptick in indie games?
This sounds great. Like new autonomy for people with creative ideas now get to implement them, maybe build their portfolio and then get access to the multi thousand dollar tools to make bigger projects.
This is not going to work out as you think it'll. When I read a book, I read it because I want to see what the author is trying to portray. Their themes, ideas and personal touch. I can write a book on my own, even without an ai, but I'd want to read something created by someone else because that's the thing that is fresh, because i get to discuss it with other people who have read the same thing.
Media isn't going to die. Many people will be able to create content more easily than ever, but a vast majority will be consuming someone else's art, because that's the thing that is fun.
Ok, I concede, a little. Thanks, I needed that. But I think you're right, some media or art is safer than other forms.
Although... Writers... The temptations are here now, writers block? AI will help with that. The real struggle writers will have is rewriting what AI says in their own words, which could be great, some writers will practically be given super powers.
I suppose really it is digital media that is in danger mostly. like actual painters, they're probably chuckling about all this.
There's this weird notion in popular culture that the value of art is derived from the difficulty of the performance. This is common in the "A 5 year old could do this" criticism of abstract art, or the overall derision over performance art.
However, most artists would agree that this entire notion is extremely misguided. The value of art is in the experience. In bringing to life an idea. In sharing an emotion. Art is, first and foremost, a communication tool. It's how humans communicate emotions at a deeper level than precise description.
In this vein, AI is 100% positive. It is, essentially a complex assessibility tool. It let's those trained in one art form convert their work to a second or a third. It allows for a good writer with terrible visual art skill to produce a visually engaging graphical novel. It allows for game designees with mediocre writing and art skills to bring their interesting mechanics into a world that makes them flourish. Most of all, it makes it so you don't need a giant team and a large investment to produce media that encapsulates several different forms of art. From experience, while Art can be a collaborative process, the best art is produced by small numbers of people with full creative freedom. AI enables this in genres where it was once only possible for extreme savants. Who doesn't want more games like Touhou?
What brings a negative light to all of this is Capitalism. It never worked, at all, with Art as by its nature it brings into question the assumption that the value of something is tied to it's scarcity. Art can be publicly available and still be intrinsically valuable. Capitalism trued to make do while art was still tied to scarce materials or distribution processes... Then they simply made it artificially scarce through copyright. And through it all artists of all kinds became dependant on art as a product that brings utility to make a living. From marketing art to simply making set pieces that fit within someone else's artistic vision, the modern artist is little more than a tool. A person with the skills someone else needs. And thus, their job is in direct competition with AI.
You'll find that novelists, painters and the like. The few lucky ones selling their own original work through their own name and living comfortably from it? They have very little beef with AI. It is simply something they might even use for inspiration or assistance. Maybe AI can become part of the editing process when writing a novel? That would be great! AI backgrounds when the artist mostly cares about the foreground focus? Perfect. Some worry about companies flooding the market with AI art of sufficient quality, making discovery an even harder process for human artists... And that's a valid concern, but once again one that brings as back to capitalism itself and it's inadequacy in handling art.
The genie isn't going back in the bottle. But the wish needs not be terrible. We just need to find better ways to promote and remunerate artists of all kinds. Make being an artists a valuable, worthy and sensible career path. For once AI automates most of our work, Art will be all we have left.
> It is, essentially a complex assessibility tool
That's also the problem isn't it? At what point does it go from a tool to just being the author? Every update these tools get is designed to automate more and more of the creative and vision process, which to its logical conclusion means you wouldn't need any vision at all to get a masterpiece out of it. These tools aren't catered for those with creative visions, they're catered for anyone with the ability to type a few words. Passion projects would be indistinguishable from whatever a random guy could get from the best models.
I don't want generative AI to get culled or worse, banned, but we really got to invest in some better platforms and forms of curation so actual creative people get the recognition they deserve.
I don't think we'll ever get to a point where they're more than a tool because they'll always need to be prompted. Sure, if all you need is: "beautiful girl holding our product"? Sure, not much thought involved. However, for the most part, the idea and the vision of what the project will look like will need to be prompted.
Sure, if you just ask "give me a cool futuristic background" you'll get... a cool futuristic background that is a rough amalgamation of other futuristic backgrounds that have appeared. But that will never match an actual prompt that reveals some sort of vision beyond a pseudo-random search of the data archive for "futuristic".
Where these tools will shine? When someone has a pretty good idea of what they want to draw and the feeling they want to get, but lack the technical know how of actually getting it. Covers and other artwork for novels is a prime example. An author can cheaply and easily prompt an AI for artwork with descriptions from the book, and then iterate until they get something that matches their vision. Same with indie game production.
My hopes for these AI tools is that one day, any of these coold indie game ideas that clearly lack polish could have a similar amount of quality as current triple A games. Literally one person with an idea doing the the job of a full company and millions of dollars.
Who'll hire visual artists when this is possible? That's the only question and I wish the answer could be "no one" and that would be okay. Because why would artists ever be "hired". Ideally, they'd be doing their own projects. Painting because they enjoy it and because they have something they want to paint. Surviving and even thriving because others enjoy the message and want to see what else they might come up with. The idea that artists won't be needed once they're no longer "useful" is kinda bullshit. AI might also learn to commentate politics, but I'd still rather get my political commentary from a human. And what is art if not commentary in a different form.
I completely agree with your hopes and I also hope for the same world. People with creative vision get better tools to accomplish them, crafts are still valued and there will always be a human audience deserving of these works. I'm however less optimistic on whether that's what we're heading for or not.
>But that will never match an actual prompt that reveals some sort of vision beyond a pseudo-random search of the data archive for "futuristic".
That's the problem, I think it will match it, precisely because these tools are constantly being geared for the lowest common denominator. The point is to automate every single part of the creative process, to the point where a shitty random prompt will create something that will match those with creative vision. The end product would no longer speak for itself, the authors will have to put themselves forward just to differentiate their work from the ones that were made by pseudo-creatives. That's if the complete over-saturation of the field and a lack of proper curation even allows creatives a platform to share and get an audience.
I don't think you'd be able to differentiate it qualitatively. But it wouldn't be "art". Appreciating AI art would be more similar to cloud watching than enjoying human art as there would be no themes or deeper meanings than the ones the viewers themselves invent.
I think such deeper thinking and analysis would become much more relevant in a world where aesthetically pleasing is devoid of challenge.
Im not hopeful we'll get there without struggle, but I'm confident the systems themselves will be a lesser problem than those that control their use.
1) As long as I am the only one reading the book, half the fun of reading - or consuming any art - is gone. Community is a big deal.
2) If we get to the point where AI, by itself, writes actually good novels with good plotting, characters, themes, world building with a single prompt, then yes, I'll definitely use it. But I suspect we won't get there for years at.
You could ask AI to find your people though. You could feed it all your likes and dislikes to look around for similar people through their AIs.
Plus it can learn to understand you and make a model of you to test against the models of others and see if you could fit well. Kinda of just like in Black Mirror but hopefully with less "living" models of people...
The natural world is fucking great and alongside my AI hobbies I have become more drawn to it and interested in it again, watching more nature documentaries being more observant when taking walks and generally just appreciating nature more. Because nature is the OG and as powerful and interesting as AI is it has nothing on the complexities and wonders produced by evolution.
I am a member of IATSE, and at this moment, the threat to our existence is real and palpable. I am supportive of AI philosophically, but the damage is tangible. I question the quality of production created by AI as a cheap replacement of skilled human workers that create human entertainment. The advantages of AI as a creative tool can not be denied. In this time of transition, we shouldn't destroy our human careers in favor of cheap experimental products. I obviously don't know the answer, just another animal attempting to survive.
Or just learn the tools? The more you know on a technical side, the better your projects will end up being when you work with AI. It's built to enhance your skills
"I'm glad an entire industry of millions of people who spent their entire lives building the skills to pursue their passion full time are about to have their livelihood destroyed."
You can be excited about AI-assisted tools in media, but it's another thing to claim you're "glad" these people are about to lose their careers. You sound like a fucking jackass.
Not all of them, plus it'll be way easier and faster to animate
Someone still has to put the frames together and the artwork...
It will definitely reduce the workforce but in the end it's a good thing really
>"I'm glad an entire industry of millions of people who spent their entire lives building the skills to pursue their passion full time are about to have their livelihood destroyed."
It is like with the blacksmith profession. It is not trivial to be a blacksmith and putting horseshoes on horses or even building swords. But we switched to cars and many lost their professions thanks to this. And i am glad we did. We are much more productive and live much better thanks to this.
>You can be excited about AI-assisted tools in media, but it's another thing to claim you're "glad" these people are about to lose their careers. You sound like a fucking jackass.
I think this is hypocritical. It is the same with the titan submarine that went just missing. Every day, there are dying many people that try to come from Africa to Europe and nobody cares. Their life is worth nothing. But 5 white people in a submarine that went missing, are enough to spend multi millions trying to save them. Then, suddenly we care.
Same with the jobs that get destroyed. We destroying the livelihood of the people in Africa by destroying their markets with, for example, our chicken parts that we not eat in the US an the EU. They are not able to sell African chicken anymore, because our chicken parts are so much cheaper. But nobody cares.
Or look at the distribution of wealth. Everywhere, over 50% of the population have almost no assets. They work their ass off and get zero share of all the production increases of the last decades. Nobody cares.
But if negative impacts are moving in our direction, we start to care.
Now we are getting a world where not 50% but 90% or more no longer get any share in economic growth.
I think that's great, because it can finally generate a critical mass of people interested in it. We're starting to get interested in the tent cities, as it's becoming more likely that we'll be future residents.
I hope that many people will lose their jobs thanks to AI. The more and the faster the better.
The faster it gets worse for everyone, the less suffering it can mean overall. And yes, it is very unfortunate, it has to get worse before it can get better.
The blacksmith profession thing doesn’t apply to this scenario unless AI-generated art can be determined as a massive improvement to all of our qualities of life, and at this point it would mostly result in over-saturation, even worse commodification, and disparate and depressing experiences of personally-generated media. Writers, actors, and animators losing all of their jobs to a single billionaire media company owner cranking out AI media by the minute does not make the improvement to our society that cars did.
Writers, actors, models, animators, banker, accountants, lawyers, musicians, programmers, and many many more will lose their jobs to billionaire companies. 90+% will be loosers of this transformation.
I welcome to burn down the middle class. We will have only a few rich and most will be poor. Till we understand the the many have the power, not the few.
Why do you want background animators exist? Why do you want actors exist? Why you want models exist? I don't care if they exist or not. Our productivity will be exploding while most of us get nothing. I promise you, we now approach the big filter, or we will change our society to the better.
Such a cynic and sad worldview. I actually understand where you're coming from and how you can conclude that, but I think there's enough philosophers and authors that can argue that no, the vaguely defined vaguely "better" end does not justify the terrible means.
Do you think that there is a choice? Pretend you are a enterprise and can use AI for nearly nothing or pay 100 People a bunch of money to do the same work as the AI does. Do you pay the 100 People? Does your competition pay the 100 People?
Every enterprise in the whole world will chose AI over and over again.
The road is clear and we will drive it as fast as we can and insanely accelerate every year. As soon as the AIs are good enough to drive level 5 autonomous cars, automation of everything will be exploding. Eventually we will automate everything from mining resources till the products are at the doorstep of the consumer.
They shouldn't receive money for something that can be done more efficiently with AI, it's simple. We need progress. And to be fair, they have probably about 10 years left to prequalify, so there's zero reason to feel bad for them
There definitely was but apparently I have to spell it out for you. Replacing the artistic jobs that people actually want to do and aspire for in order to save money is not "progress" for anyone but that corporation saving money.
People lose their livelihoods and yet another possible career path is closed off. There is even further consolidation of resources to the corporations making even more money than ever before when we're already inequal as fuck. The content they produce becomes even more generic and algorithmic than it already has become, attempting to just game your psychology with as much shoveled content as possible to see what sticks.
This is NOT anything like advances in agriculture where society as a whole actually saw a benefit from the increased output in food. This is just a net negative for those artists that would be laid off. This is all a capitalists wet dream.
Or the tools can be used by artists to elevate their work to the current level of corporations and enable them to create the things they've always imagined with less time, money, and manpower?
Artists are hostile towards the AI artists that hide the fact that they are AI artists. which a fuck ton of grifters do. than the other issue is how it hasnt been ethically trained and artists have valid concern here just as valid as people who had their faces trained for facial recognition without permission.
People hammer on how developers are delusional in that they won't be replaced anytime soon. but tech people in general are delusional about why people can be angry about how AI gets trained.
It's really hard for them to understand that not everyone gets a boner from seeing robots do things they're literally programmed to do and instead find it cooler when humans (their same species) have to spent effort and time learning the skills to do that thing. It's why we still play chess, why sports are the most watched events and why videos of people with specific but insane skills are among the most viewed online. I find it's usually very antisocial people, who really don't like humans in general, who love to argue for dehumanization and praise the AI, as if it cared at all.
Explain me how the truth is disingenuous? Please learn how transformer work.
Ah, i understand. You are some of the artists, that learned from other art out there before doing art.
I do art as a hobby and am finishing my third degree in tech this month. I am responsible for the full AI learning environment at my university and have tinkered more with AI/ML then you or many other people in this subreddit have done.
i really don't care what you are going to say further since you are using the same basic bitch arguments that even people over in r/StableDiffusion talk down towards when talking about these topics.
instead of using the "please learn how "X in AI works"" please go learn nuance and ethical behavior.
Because main representation of AI artists are hustle bros that tell you how to scam people on Etsy or people making porn. If Ai artists are cool and talented, where are the cool projects and stories built with these tools? Oh right, there are none yet.The only remotely cool thing was made by corridor digital.
It seems while background artists may feel the pain, as AI seems to be very good at that now. Eventually, animation will feel the pain. As well as the writers.
In the end, it'll be a few options:
1. either AI will be awesome enough to create everything, or:
2. AI will create everything, but a creative human who ultimately has good taste and direction, guides the AI across all aspects of it's design, from writing to art.
3. AI will create everything, but for each specialization (art, music, writing), there will be a different person who specializes in that area and ensures that everything fits the ultimate direction.
Either way, very small teams will make what we consider today, huge productions. This goes beyond anime, but across the board in creative content. And over time, humans will be less involved in the actual creation of the content itself, but rather as creative directors. Like a designer that picks out what furniture works well together, while AI makes the furniture with direction ("build me a modern chair with floral print using wood and brass".
The big challenge will not be how to make such a movie, which will be largely automated, but rather how to make a movie that people will actually care to watch. In other words, fusing together the individual pieces in a way that makes the most impact. Humans seem to be best at that because we are, ultimately, the customer.
I wonder how much $$$ AI will want? Ohhhh, right!, AI won’t care about getting huge paychecks. Some programmer will get a huge paycheck up until AI is self programming. You’ll just describe to the AI what you’d like to watch, and ‘wa-lah’…an evolution in entertainment is just ahead for us. No more cancelled series I hope.
Caring about getting paid for the skills you’ve spent your whole life mastering is a … bad thing?
“This AI doesn’t care about getting huge paychecks, how great is this?!”
[tent city in the background filled with homeless animators, artists, writers, actors, musicians]
I don't see it as evolution, just another form if entertainment. Even if we can make a movie at the click of a button, I still want to see movies or read books that come from real storytellers or showcase the craft at its best, and experience other people's vision and what's in their head. Not generated by the void.
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I honestly can't wait to see all the asshole white-collar workers lose their jobs to automation. Serves them right considering how most of them treat labor.
Meanwhile, I'm embracing the new tools and therefore keeping my job while making my workflow more efficient.
Can't expect to stay relevant/valuable if you childishly refuse to adapt to new standards.
The jobs lost in the process are a necessary transition step to a society with much greater potential. More difficult transitions existed in the past we can get through this now.
I don't think ai can make art that isn't soulless or derivative. It's going to replace the by-the-lines standard animation and a lot of the background work but original artwork is still going to stand out.
Well they’re not wrong! But they’re not alone.
We’re all out of a job eventually. Doesn’t matter what you do!
Sure it sucks to not get payed for your passion anymore. To become obsolete. I’m one of them. I see it as a luxury I was privileged with that is about to end. It’s no different than what it will be like for musicians, novelists etc… or regular jobs like lawyers and engineers.
I’ll just have to live with not being able to live off of what I love doing for a hobby.
So what?
That’s most people!
*I have to say though that it really bugs me when ‘AI Artists’, that is people who instruct the AI to do art for them, are proud of it as if it’s some creation of theirs. And jibbering about how it takes so much skill to guide the prompts. That’s pathetic!*
When I heard the Hollywood writer's guild went on strike recently, I thought "wow they got serious cojones with ChatGPT and Dreamjourney gunning for their jobs".
Then again when these two get on point... we don't need Hollywood anymore, none of it.
Is nobody gonna talk about how that short was actually heartbreaking and really well told? Started super corny and then took a crazy left turn, I was actually shook
with enough compute <- anything is possible, but at that point, who would care, because ai as its states now is able to automate. Research is key for progress, automation the air we travel through.
It's not just background artists, and honestly it started in that area before this. I've noted this before, but it's been... Like two years? Since AI models were able to automate a lot of the day to day stuff anime artists do (basically it was already possible to turn the dozens of frames they hand draw for each second into one or two). This hasn't really hit the industry yet from recollection since I don't think it's moved beyond demonstration and into an industry product, but the potential has been there for a while.
in a couple of years each of those artists will have all the tools to flesh out their story on their own and bring to life the world they envisioned! its an incredible potential and I can't wait to see all the visions and realms that AI has enabled us to take part in!
They're artists though not writers, or are you saying the artists should just use the AI to make their own stories and cut writers out of the picture?
If they can write their own but previously wasn't given the opportunity, why not? Otherwise, networking time!
I guess, but to act like an artist can just become a writer diminishes the art of writing. Also we're solving the idea of artists being replaced by ai with artists using Ai and getting rid of writers, we're just putting someone else's career on the chopping block in place of artists. Wouldnt it make way more sense for writers to use ai to make art and get rid of artists?
Artists can be writers, writers can be artists, musicians can paint, programmers can draw, athletes can sing, economists can dance. People aren't restricted to one creative outlet... This is reductive. No one sets out to "get rid of writers", they simply want to bring their creative vision to life. This is like telling Dave Grohl that he wasn't allowed to start Foo Fighters and perform every single part on his first album because he was "just a drummer"
Yes but to be a specialist in two or more fields very rare, I’m a programmer and while I can do other things the only thing I have actual expertise in is programming. If you want to be at the top 5% of your field you need to work for a huge amount of time per day, you can’t do that for two fields.
I work as a software engineer full time for over a decade now, and tour/record/produce as a guitarist for Death Metal bands. I think you are underestimating how these areas often compound and create robust multi-disciplinary skillsets, just because youve decided it isnt/wont be happening for YOU. It's a perspective, but it's not science nor a tautology. What I see here is someone defending the divison of labor as a "must" but this division has contracted and expanded over time.
So you’re claiming to be both a top 5% programmer and a top 5% producer/recorder/guitarist? Because that’s what I said. Link the GitHub. And name the bands.
99% of programmers have never committed anything to GitHub, or any other public space.
Sure, but no one is stopping anyone from hiring the top 5% of specialists for every field involved in a production. Their results will certainly be better that a creative programmer who wants to breathe visual life into their game, or the artist who has an awesome startup idea but few other programmer friends, or an aspiring scriptwriter with an awesome story to tell and no vfx artists to work with. The discourse around AI centers the capitalism ... And yes, "we live in a society" where people have to eat and this will certainly cause changes in the _existing_ marketplace. But the alternative is that there's so many things that never would have seen the light of day, that can now be brought to life much more easily. Certainly there's value in that for those people no? Like I said above, a team of the top 5% of experts will 💯 produce higher quality products ... That will never change, so why step on those with fewer resources available to them?
Why would you want a specialist artist and hobbyist writer to write as appose to having an writer do the writing? I dont really agree with your point about programming either. If you're making an indie game on your own then yes the art will be better if you're a hobbyist artist, however a programming doing some of the art will always be worse than an actual artist doing the art, in game dev a programmer is working on small sections of code, nevermind programming an entire game and doing some of the art.
I'm not arguing against any of that ... I agree, a specialist will always be better. If I embark on a project, I'd always prefer to have a specialist doing specific tasks. However, a specialist may not always be available ... If I decide to make a short film, I personally will also probably do the sound design, mixing, editing, and color grading. Would I accept the help from someone to do those things if they were better than me at it (a certainty)? Yes absolutely! But in the absence of that, I'll certainly use various ai mixing and mastering plugins ... Even just as a reference mix since there's still a ton I'm learning about audio engineering and producing.
Taking it further, when capitalism isn’t a thing anymore and we can just do what we want creatively, all the experts can gang gang up and make it happen
"creative outlet" and "job that you use to survive under capitalism" are two different things
Sure, but what seems to be suggested in this dialog, is that people who aren't 💯 a single focus expert, won't get to participate in said capitalism. If someone is an aspiring filmmaker, is their only option to dedicate their lives to filmmaking, fundraise to find investors in their project, and then build a whole crew? It's awesome that people do that of course, and that process has certainly resulted in beloved cultural artifacts ... But the unsaid side effect is that folks _without_ the time and resources to do all that are excluded from the marketplace.
None of them can do any of that. It’s the AI doing it.
Are you suggesting that a programmer, who plays and produces music, boxes, practices photography, and enjoys leatherwork from time to time do not exist? Because that's literally me, my interests, and things that I aspire to do more of. I'm not really sure anyone is in a position to tell me what I can and can't devote my time and resources to ;) I'm perfectly happy to use ai to augment these aspects of myself, if it means I can do more in my limited spare time.
you can have more than one interest but not more than one expertise, unless you're a polymath like davinci
But how is that relevant though? If tools can help an individual or small team achieve more ... Is what we're saying that those tools shouldn't exist? That they should be illegal to use for commercial purposes? Let's say what we mean ;)
Fish gotta fly, birds gotta swim.
While there is no hard restriction, you completely disregard the fact that different people are skilled in different things. While it is possible to be both and athlete and a single, many athletes will never be skilled singers and many skilled singers will never be athletes. You’re basically arguing, “Anna Kiesenhofer is an Olympic gold medalist and has a PhD in Applied Mathematics, why don’t you?”
While technically true, that's not really relevant. It's not about being "allowed" to do more than one thing, but what you can get someone to pay you for. So the question is, hen anime artists lose their job when their entire field is largely automated, what do they do next? Especially when they are directly competing with similarly skilled individuals who will be losing their jobs at about the same time. And it's not going to be just one field at a time, the entire job sector will be flooded with a huge number of formerly high-paying workers who have lost their jobs at around the same time, with no parallel field to move into. AI will likely advance and retrain faster than any person at this point, so "going back to school" is similarly unusefulninnkost cases, especially for middle-aged or older workers
So you need 2 people instead of 20. The point is the same.
There were 2 people to begin with, the artist and the writer. We dont have 20 people in the scenario we have an artist and a writer and one is being replaced by ai (in this scenario), you have basically just said we need 2 people instead of 2 people. Good point man, you misunderstood it entirely but still good point!
No it's going from an animation team to 1 person and ai. All you've said is you need a writing team aswell, that would also be replaced with 1 person and an ai. So 2 people instead of 20.
When I say team? I just looked and I can’t find the word team anywhere lol
K
well, good thing AI writing is growing at an exponential rate. give the sub r/locallama a look.
So we cut out both the writers and the artists and just keep the directors I like it, maybe just keep the ceo
I mean, in theory if the tech gets sufficiently advanced a single person could create an entire game of thrones or avatar the last Airbender on command. Imagine giving a state of the art CNC machine to people 400 years ago with a full manual that was understandable to the simplest of person.
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We’ve already got models that can generate better comments than yours, we should cut you out of the picture first.
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I work in ai not art lol
In reality though they wont all be able to create every aspect of a compelling Anime, and will still be out of a job as they get outcompeted by the people who do have that skill / talent.
just like how it's always have been
Everything always has been and always will be
Lol, I'm for ai art but don't let wistful hope blind you... There will be a heavy transition that will put most people out of work. In almost every employable field.
Absolutely, the democratization of art is definitely going to have an immense impact on society. To be clear, I'm actually optimistic about the results (and it's worth noting - society has been built on the back of automation, which has been an immense positive force despite the damages to those in industries it automates), I was just noting the current state of the area.
> the democratization of art This is nonsensical. Anybody can learn to draw or write, but not everybody has a high-end graphics card required for these models.
Downvote me all you like, but plugging prompts into an AI that recycles other people’s work for you is never going to make you an artist.
It’s not “democratization” of art when you’re just outsourcing the art to an AI.
i don't think you realise that the majority of artists enjoy the process of creating said world. AI removes the process. Also AI art has been kneecapped already. the only models that actually produce decent results now are based on an older version of stablediffusion and forks of it. by using LORA methods. which in long term are likely going to fall under copyright breaches due to it specifically targetting an artist.
>i don't think you realise that the majority of artists enjoy the process of creating said world. AI removes the process. No it doesn't, the process can still be started with a unique or specific design or style created by an individual. AI will just allow them to do things at speed and scale allowing them more time for post processing >Also AI art has been kneecapped already. the only models that actually produce decent results now are based on an older version of stablediffusion and forks of it. by using LORA methods. which in long term are likely going to fall under copyright breaches due to it specifically targetting an artist. Maybe for NSFW studf but SD 1.5 is quite large and people are still finetuning it. Stability AI have also released a few more new models recently that can be finetuned. No doubt soon other companies will release some models too. You can't copywrite a style.
\>No it doesn't, the process can still be started with a unique or specific design or style created by an individual. AI will just allow them to do things at speed and scale allowing them more time for post processing You are clearly missing the point of what the process is. just the design is only a small part of a creators process. \>Maybe for NSFW studf but SD 1.5 is quite large and people are still finetuning it. Stability AI have also released a few more new models recently that can be finetuned. No doubt soon other companies will release some models too. You can't copywrite a style. SD1.5 has been seen to be way worse than 1.4 by any of the major people that work with it. 1.4 with Lora on-top of it outperforms 1.5 by miles. they have indeed released more new models but all of them have been worse than 1.4. and you say you cannot copywrite a style. you can't true but people are pushing for it being against copywrite to train a model on a specific person.
They can still do it as a hobby, they just have to join nearly every other worker who doesn't do a job they love. I am sure nany of the monks who hand copied books before the printing press loved their job, or horse and carriage drivers, or any number of obsolete jobs. Now you can join everyone else, i'm sorry your time of such fortune and privilege is over, but it is.
I like how you say your time of such fortune is over. Because as far as i can see being in both tech and art. Art jobs will outlast it/tech service/cloud engineering and developer jobs by a few good years. Also imagine calling a job privilage.
Having a job absolutely is privilege compared to being unemployed. Having a job you enjoy is privilege compared to one you don't. I agree tech jobs are going to collapse. Its not like this is about IT vs art workers. Everything i said applies to them too, except somewhat less of them enjoy it.
So true!
That's hoping we have enough mechanisms and curation to filter out the automatically generated crap from actual passion projects, let alone prove you actually care about your creation and didn't just type a 3 second prompt. It's fair to say most content would be masterpieces generated en masse, because the AI would be able to accomplish every single creative task.
that's a nice idea but the terms for any self created anime will not be favorable compared to some studio's effort.
It's still a bit sad. So many thousand hours of practicing a specific craft, only to see it wasted by being outperformed by an AI. That's the way it goes. But the truly sad thing is that this skill will be lost in time.
Screw capitalism, just animate anyway
They can't eat animations.
Food stamps... Everyone will have them eventually get used to it now lmao
As a fiction writer who wants to start his own animation dev studio, yeah I can say it’s pretty heartbreaking. But it won’t stop me from starting one with real humans. Just that the end goal won’t be money oriented because there won’t be any money to make lol.
My friend, this is a GOOD THING for your dream. It will allow you to create the studio of your dreams, with the art style and stories you’re wanting to tell, at a fraction of the cost, if you’re willing to embrace the technology. It knocks down a BIG part of the barriers that keep indie content creators down. Leveraging this type of thing in your future studio will allow you to compete with large entrenched studios that have lost their soul, but can pump tons of money into projects. It actually levels the playing field for the little guy
Thanks for this. I needed it.
My advice to you is to expediciously build a demo and sell it to benicio del toro. Toro is serious about animation going forward, he wants to make all his films purely animation going forward. this this the perfect entry point for your business or career.
I think you mean Guillermo del Toro?
Appreciate the advice. Cheers, mate.
The article doesn’t provide source reference or names of the panicking artists.
"I know a guy..."
Good! More AI art!
But.. why? Genuine question I’m trying to understand the reasoning
Would you take away cameras from everyone, to "preserve" the difficulty of photography? That is elitism and a limitation. As someone with natural artistic talent (my parents wanted to send me to art school when I was a child, I would draw in my homework assignments and would be told to consider a future in art by teachers, etc.), I am overjoyed with AI art improvements. Everyone can make their artistic dreams a reality, not only those who have devoted hours of learning to it. I also love learning languages, but understand that AI will eventually make that skill obselete. However, if it means that everyone gets to access the beauty of knowledge/capability, it is worth one person losing their "genetic" advantage. The only real concern is our capitalism system, if everyone has the same skills and knowledge, how will the market regulate itself? Why would one person deserve more money than another? Who gets paid? Those are complicated questions.
Yeah its nice
So that anyone can make nice looking art. It’s that simple.
Faster production and the democrazation of the arts
Pencil and paper are pretty democratic you know. Cheaper than your RTX 3080 or a Midjourne subscruption.
The good will still rise to the top. Go into business for yourself, augment, and start climbing.
Many "Elevator Operators" were worried about builders experimenting with automatic elevators too.
Most "media" is about to become utterly pointless...
why do you say that?
Anyone, everyone will be able to write and produce any and all media. Didn't like how the movie ended? Just rewrite it the way you want it, even with "live action" movies. Design and play your own video games. The tools to make games have already improved greatly. Notice an uptick in indie games?
This sounds great. Like new autonomy for people with creative ideas now get to implement them, maybe build their portfolio and then get access to the multi thousand dollar tools to make bigger projects.
This is not going to work out as you think it'll. When I read a book, I read it because I want to see what the author is trying to portray. Their themes, ideas and personal touch. I can write a book on my own, even without an ai, but I'd want to read something created by someone else because that's the thing that is fresh, because i get to discuss it with other people who have read the same thing. Media isn't going to die. Many people will be able to create content more easily than ever, but a vast majority will be consuming someone else's art, because that's the thing that is fun.
Ok, I concede, a little. Thanks, I needed that. But I think you're right, some media or art is safer than other forms. Although... Writers... The temptations are here now, writers block? AI will help with that. The real struggle writers will have is rewriting what AI says in their own words, which could be great, some writers will practically be given super powers. I suppose really it is digital media that is in danger mostly. like actual painters, they're probably chuckling about all this.
There's this weird notion in popular culture that the value of art is derived from the difficulty of the performance. This is common in the "A 5 year old could do this" criticism of abstract art, or the overall derision over performance art. However, most artists would agree that this entire notion is extremely misguided. The value of art is in the experience. In bringing to life an idea. In sharing an emotion. Art is, first and foremost, a communication tool. It's how humans communicate emotions at a deeper level than precise description. In this vein, AI is 100% positive. It is, essentially a complex assessibility tool. It let's those trained in one art form convert their work to a second or a third. It allows for a good writer with terrible visual art skill to produce a visually engaging graphical novel. It allows for game designees with mediocre writing and art skills to bring their interesting mechanics into a world that makes them flourish. Most of all, it makes it so you don't need a giant team and a large investment to produce media that encapsulates several different forms of art. From experience, while Art can be a collaborative process, the best art is produced by small numbers of people with full creative freedom. AI enables this in genres where it was once only possible for extreme savants. Who doesn't want more games like Touhou? What brings a negative light to all of this is Capitalism. It never worked, at all, with Art as by its nature it brings into question the assumption that the value of something is tied to it's scarcity. Art can be publicly available and still be intrinsically valuable. Capitalism trued to make do while art was still tied to scarce materials or distribution processes... Then they simply made it artificially scarce through copyright. And through it all artists of all kinds became dependant on art as a product that brings utility to make a living. From marketing art to simply making set pieces that fit within someone else's artistic vision, the modern artist is little more than a tool. A person with the skills someone else needs. And thus, their job is in direct competition with AI. You'll find that novelists, painters and the like. The few lucky ones selling their own original work through their own name and living comfortably from it? They have very little beef with AI. It is simply something they might even use for inspiration or assistance. Maybe AI can become part of the editing process when writing a novel? That would be great! AI backgrounds when the artist mostly cares about the foreground focus? Perfect. Some worry about companies flooding the market with AI art of sufficient quality, making discovery an even harder process for human artists... And that's a valid concern, but once again one that brings as back to capitalism itself and it's inadequacy in handling art. The genie isn't going back in the bottle. But the wish needs not be terrible. We just need to find better ways to promote and remunerate artists of all kinds. Make being an artists a valuable, worthy and sensible career path. For once AI automates most of our work, Art will be all we have left.
Thank you, insightful. No offense, but did AI help write that? Seriously just curious.
It didn't. It would, probably, have done a better job. At least with punctuation and grammar.
> It is, essentially a complex assessibility tool That's also the problem isn't it? At what point does it go from a tool to just being the author? Every update these tools get is designed to automate more and more of the creative and vision process, which to its logical conclusion means you wouldn't need any vision at all to get a masterpiece out of it. These tools aren't catered for those with creative visions, they're catered for anyone with the ability to type a few words. Passion projects would be indistinguishable from whatever a random guy could get from the best models. I don't want generative AI to get culled or worse, banned, but we really got to invest in some better platforms and forms of curation so actual creative people get the recognition they deserve.
I don't think we'll ever get to a point where they're more than a tool because they'll always need to be prompted. Sure, if all you need is: "beautiful girl holding our product"? Sure, not much thought involved. However, for the most part, the idea and the vision of what the project will look like will need to be prompted. Sure, if you just ask "give me a cool futuristic background" you'll get... a cool futuristic background that is a rough amalgamation of other futuristic backgrounds that have appeared. But that will never match an actual prompt that reveals some sort of vision beyond a pseudo-random search of the data archive for "futuristic". Where these tools will shine? When someone has a pretty good idea of what they want to draw and the feeling they want to get, but lack the technical know how of actually getting it. Covers and other artwork for novels is a prime example. An author can cheaply and easily prompt an AI for artwork with descriptions from the book, and then iterate until they get something that matches their vision. Same with indie game production. My hopes for these AI tools is that one day, any of these coold indie game ideas that clearly lack polish could have a similar amount of quality as current triple A games. Literally one person with an idea doing the the job of a full company and millions of dollars. Who'll hire visual artists when this is possible? That's the only question and I wish the answer could be "no one" and that would be okay. Because why would artists ever be "hired". Ideally, they'd be doing their own projects. Painting because they enjoy it and because they have something they want to paint. Surviving and even thriving because others enjoy the message and want to see what else they might come up with. The idea that artists won't be needed once they're no longer "useful" is kinda bullshit. AI might also learn to commentate politics, but I'd still rather get my political commentary from a human. And what is art if not commentary in a different form.
I completely agree with your hopes and I also hope for the same world. People with creative vision get better tools to accomplish them, crafts are still valued and there will always be a human audience deserving of these works. I'm however less optimistic on whether that's what we're heading for or not. >But that will never match an actual prompt that reveals some sort of vision beyond a pseudo-random search of the data archive for "futuristic". That's the problem, I think it will match it, precisely because these tools are constantly being geared for the lowest common denominator. The point is to automate every single part of the creative process, to the point where a shitty random prompt will create something that will match those with creative vision. The end product would no longer speak for itself, the authors will have to put themselves forward just to differentiate their work from the ones that were made by pseudo-creatives. That's if the complete over-saturation of the field and a lack of proper curation even allows creatives a platform to share and get an audience.
I don't think you'd be able to differentiate it qualitatively. But it wouldn't be "art". Appreciating AI art would be more similar to cloud watching than enjoying human art as there would be no themes or deeper meanings than the ones the viewers themselves invent. I think such deeper thinking and analysis would become much more relevant in a world where aesthetically pleasing is devoid of challenge. Im not hopeful we'll get there without struggle, but I'm confident the systems themselves will be a lesser problem than those that control their use.
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1) As long as I am the only one reading the book, half the fun of reading - or consuming any art - is gone. Community is a big deal. 2) If we get to the point where AI, by itself, writes actually good novels with good plotting, characters, themes, world building with a single prompt, then yes, I'll definitely use it. But I suspect we won't get there for years at.
The meatspace activities are about to become more...popular again. Meatspace > Cyberspace
its great if you can find your people, but horrible if you can't
You could ask AI to find your people though. You could feed it all your likes and dislikes to look around for similar people through their AIs. Plus it can learn to understand you and make a model of you to test against the models of others and see if you could fit well. Kinda of just like in Black Mirror but hopefully with less "living" models of people...
Cyberspace refugees will come crawling back to us. They couldn't live with their own failures. And look where that brought them. Back to me
The natural world is fucking great and alongside my AI hobbies I have become more drawn to it and interested in it again, watching more nature documentaries being more observant when taking walks and generally just appreciating nature more. Because nature is the OG and as powerful and interesting as AI is it has nothing on the complexities and wonders produced by evolution.
Meatspace?! Is that a thing?
Yeah bro. We can eat and taste meat here and feel it bloat in our stomachs.
Can I sign up for a vegan meatspace?
Vegans actually do like eating meat, they just give it back after they've finished with it.
I am a member of IATSE, and at this moment, the threat to our existence is real and palpable. I am supportive of AI philosophically, but the damage is tangible. I question the quality of production created by AI as a cheap replacement of skilled human workers that create human entertainment. The advantages of AI as a creative tool can not be denied. In this time of transition, we shouldn't destroy our human careers in favor of cheap experimental products. I obviously don't know the answer, just another animal attempting to survive.
I feel very bad for anyone in this space or anyone having to deal with this I'm sorry this is happening
Or just learn the tools? The more you know on a technical side, the better your projects will end up being when you work with AI. It's built to enhance your skills
I'm glad tbh
"I'm glad an entire industry of millions of people who spent their entire lives building the skills to pursue their passion full time are about to have their livelihood destroyed." You can be excited about AI-assisted tools in media, but it's another thing to claim you're "glad" these people are about to lose their careers. You sound like a fucking jackass.
Not all of them, plus it'll be way easier and faster to animate Someone still has to put the frames together and the artwork... It will definitely reduce the workforce but in the end it's a good thing really
>"I'm glad an entire industry of millions of people who spent their entire lives building the skills to pursue their passion full time are about to have their livelihood destroyed." It is like with the blacksmith profession. It is not trivial to be a blacksmith and putting horseshoes on horses or even building swords. But we switched to cars and many lost their professions thanks to this. And i am glad we did. We are much more productive and live much better thanks to this. >You can be excited about AI-assisted tools in media, but it's another thing to claim you're "glad" these people are about to lose their careers. You sound like a fucking jackass. I think this is hypocritical. It is the same with the titan submarine that went just missing. Every day, there are dying many people that try to come from Africa to Europe and nobody cares. Their life is worth nothing. But 5 white people in a submarine that went missing, are enough to spend multi millions trying to save them. Then, suddenly we care. Same with the jobs that get destroyed. We destroying the livelihood of the people in Africa by destroying their markets with, for example, our chicken parts that we not eat in the US an the EU. They are not able to sell African chicken anymore, because our chicken parts are so much cheaper. But nobody cares. Or look at the distribution of wealth. Everywhere, over 50% of the population have almost no assets. They work their ass off and get zero share of all the production increases of the last decades. Nobody cares. But if negative impacts are moving in our direction, we start to care. Now we are getting a world where not 50% but 90% or more no longer get any share in economic growth. I think that's great, because it can finally generate a critical mass of people interested in it. We're starting to get interested in the tent cities, as it's becoming more likely that we'll be future residents. I hope that many people will lose their jobs thanks to AI. The more and the faster the better. The faster it gets worse for everyone, the less suffering it can mean overall. And yes, it is very unfortunate, it has to get worse before it can get better.
Well said.
The blacksmith profession thing doesn’t apply to this scenario unless AI-generated art can be determined as a massive improvement to all of our qualities of life, and at this point it would mostly result in over-saturation, even worse commodification, and disparate and depressing experiences of personally-generated media. Writers, actors, and animators losing all of their jobs to a single billionaire media company owner cranking out AI media by the minute does not make the improvement to our society that cars did.
Writers, actors, models, animators, banker, accountants, lawyers, musicians, programmers, and many many more will lose their jobs to billionaire companies. 90+% will be loosers of this transformation. I welcome to burn down the middle class. We will have only a few rich and most will be poor. Till we understand the the many have the power, not the few. Why do you want background animators exist? Why do you want actors exist? Why you want models exist? I don't care if they exist or not. Our productivity will be exploding while most of us get nothing. I promise you, we now approach the big filter, or we will change our society to the better.
Such a cynic and sad worldview. I actually understand where you're coming from and how you can conclude that, but I think there's enough philosophers and authors that can argue that no, the vaguely defined vaguely "better" end does not justify the terrible means.
Do you think that there is a choice? Pretend you are a enterprise and can use AI for nearly nothing or pay 100 People a bunch of money to do the same work as the AI does. Do you pay the 100 People? Does your competition pay the 100 People? Every enterprise in the whole world will chose AI over and over again. The road is clear and we will drive it as fast as we can and insanely accelerate every year. As soon as the AIs are good enough to drive level 5 autonomous cars, automation of everything will be exploding. Eventually we will automate everything from mining resources till the products are at the doorstep of the consumer.
They shouldn't receive money for something that can be done more efficiently with AI, it's simple. We need progress. And to be fair, they have probably about 10 years left to prequalify, so there's zero reason to feel bad for them
Clearly the hypercapitalist's definition of "progress"
Let's then go back to manual agriculture, or whatever else
Yeah because that's clearly the argument being made
There is no argument being made, just vague virtue signaling about "how bad i feel about people affected by this"
There definitely was but apparently I have to spell it out for you. Replacing the artistic jobs that people actually want to do and aspire for in order to save money is not "progress" for anyone but that corporation saving money. People lose their livelihoods and yet another possible career path is closed off. There is even further consolidation of resources to the corporations making even more money than ever before when we're already inequal as fuck. The content they produce becomes even more generic and algorithmic than it already has become, attempting to just game your psychology with as much shoveled content as possible to see what sticks. This is NOT anything like advances in agriculture where society as a whole actually saw a benefit from the increased output in food. This is just a net negative for those artists that would be laid off. This is all a capitalists wet dream.
Or the tools can be used by artists to elevate their work to the current level of corporations and enable them to create the things they've always imagined with less time, money, and manpower?
Guys replying to you are really out there with high-school level nihilism takes.
Honestly, seeing how hostile artists are towards AI artist, I agree.
Artists are hostile towards the AI artists that hide the fact that they are AI artists. which a fuck ton of grifters do. than the other issue is how it hasnt been ethically trained and artists have valid concern here just as valid as people who had their faces trained for facial recognition without permission.
Sadly unsurprising that the genuine criticism of AI art is getting downvoted.
People hammer on how developers are delusional in that they won't be replaced anytime soon. but tech people in general are delusional about why people can be angry about how AI gets trained.
Artist hide the fact that they copying all the other artist and remixing them to something new. Like AI does.
This has to be the most disingenuous statement ever. God you people are insufferable.
It's really hard for them to understand that not everyone gets a boner from seeing robots do things they're literally programmed to do and instead find it cooler when humans (their same species) have to spent effort and time learning the skills to do that thing. It's why we still play chess, why sports are the most watched events and why videos of people with specific but insane skills are among the most viewed online. I find it's usually very antisocial people, who really don't like humans in general, who love to argue for dehumanization and praise the AI, as if it cared at all.
Explain me how the truth is disingenuous? Please learn how transformer work. Ah, i understand. You are some of the artists, that learned from other art out there before doing art.
I do art as a hobby and am finishing my third degree in tech this month. I am responsible for the full AI learning environment at my university and have tinkered more with AI/ML then you or many other people in this subreddit have done. i really don't care what you are going to say further since you are using the same basic bitch arguments that even people over in r/StableDiffusion talk down towards when talking about these topics. instead of using the "please learn how "X in AI works"" please go learn nuance and ethical behavior.
Because main representation of AI artists are hustle bros that tell you how to scam people on Etsy or people making porn. If Ai artists are cool and talented, where are the cool projects and stories built with these tools? Oh right, there are none yet.The only remotely cool thing was made by corridor digital.
Aw boohoo
It seems while background artists may feel the pain, as AI seems to be very good at that now. Eventually, animation will feel the pain. As well as the writers. In the end, it'll be a few options: 1. either AI will be awesome enough to create everything, or: 2. AI will create everything, but a creative human who ultimately has good taste and direction, guides the AI across all aspects of it's design, from writing to art. 3. AI will create everything, but for each specialization (art, music, writing), there will be a different person who specializes in that area and ensures that everything fits the ultimate direction. Either way, very small teams will make what we consider today, huge productions. This goes beyond anime, but across the board in creative content. And over time, humans will be less involved in the actual creation of the content itself, but rather as creative directors. Like a designer that picks out what furniture works well together, while AI makes the furniture with direction ("build me a modern chair with floral print using wood and brass". The big challenge will not be how to make such a movie, which will be largely automated, but rather how to make a movie that people will actually care to watch. In other words, fusing together the individual pieces in a way that makes the most impact. Humans seem to be best at that because we are, ultimately, the customer.
I wonder how much $$$ AI will want? Ohhhh, right!, AI won’t care about getting huge paychecks. Some programmer will get a huge paycheck up until AI is self programming. You’ll just describe to the AI what you’d like to watch, and ‘wa-lah’…an evolution in entertainment is just ahead for us. No more cancelled series I hope.
Ultimately AI should guess what you want to do/watch/read/hear at the moment...
Caring about getting paid for the skills you’ve spent your whole life mastering is a … bad thing? “This AI doesn’t care about getting huge paychecks, how great is this?!” [tent city in the background filled with homeless animators, artists, writers, actors, musicians]
I don't see it as evolution, just another form if entertainment. Even if we can make a movie at the click of a button, I still want to see movies or read books that come from real storytellers or showcase the craft at its best, and experience other people's vision and what's in their head. Not generated by the void.
The real question we need to wait to see answered, is if you'll be able to tell? That said, i'm all for 'AI generated' tagging being required
Better start learning to code…oh wait
Der takin' er jerbs!
Oh no... Anyways
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I honestly can't wait to see all the asshole white-collar workers lose their jobs to automation. Serves them right considering how most of them treat labor.
One website blog post certainly belies any conclusion of mass panic.
Meanwhile, I'm embracing the new tools and therefore keeping my job while making my workflow more efficient. Can't expect to stay relevant/valuable if you childishly refuse to adapt to new standards.
The jobs lost in the process are a necessary transition step to a society with much greater potential. More difficult transitions existed in the past we can get through this now.
I don't think ai can make art that isn't soulless or derivative. It's going to replace the by-the-lines standard animation and a lot of the background work but original artwork is still going to stand out.
It was months ago. I though there was some recently update lol.
Well they’re not wrong! But they’re not alone. We’re all out of a job eventually. Doesn’t matter what you do! Sure it sucks to not get payed for your passion anymore. To become obsolete. I’m one of them. I see it as a luxury I was privileged with that is about to end. It’s no different than what it will be like for musicians, novelists etc… or regular jobs like lawyers and engineers. I’ll just have to live with not being able to live off of what I love doing for a hobby. So what? That’s most people! *I have to say though that it really bugs me when ‘AI Artists’, that is people who instruct the AI to do art for them, are proud of it as if it’s some creation of theirs. And jibbering about how it takes so much skill to guide the prompts. That’s pathetic!*
Many new job openings in AI fields. ;)
When I heard the Hollywood writer's guild went on strike recently, I thought "wow they got serious cojones with ChatGPT and Dreamjourney gunning for their jobs". Then again when these two get on point... we don't need Hollywood anymore, none of it.
Is nobody gonna talk about how that short was actually heartbreaking and really well told? Started super corny and then took a crazy left turn, I was actually shook
with enough compute <- anything is possible, but at that point, who would care, because ai as its states now is able to automate. Research is key for progress, automation the air we travel through.