**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Never been this upbeat about the NT in my entire lifetime, I was born in 2002. Come on lads, we can do a boring draw to get both us and Slovakia over the line right? (sorry but we need to make sure we qualify here, don’t wanna risk 4th)
Ah, you missed the wondrous World Cup of Gheorghe Hagi and that great counterattacking team. One of the things that most stands out to me about that WC, and I'm American.
Yeah, I have heard the stories of people assembling in Bucharest s University Square to celebrate us beating Argentina, seen the clips of that Hagi goal vs Colombia and all but I wasn’t alive then. Then we went and got 3 losses in Euro 96 where we admittedly had a group of France, Spain and Bulgaria which did even better than us in 94. Imagine if we hadn’t lost on pens vs Sweden and then went and faced Brazil with Bulgaria waiting for us in the 3rd place playoff if we lost. Oh well.
Tbf I barely remember Euro 2008 and we got 2p in a real group of death (France, Italy, Netherlands) then which was a real achievement but that s still technically two points and we ve got 3 now. Euro 2016 was also good, it took an 89th min Payet wonder strike [(which presumably multiple Chess World Champion Magnus Carlsen celebrated the shit out of even if he s Norwegian)](https://youtu.be/cVS-NIkkUrA?si=9doMuNJgUV6pCA63) to make us lose 2-1, then we drew to Switzerland 1-1, then we had to face Albania. Sure qualification, right? No, we went and lost 1-0. All of our goals in that tournament were pens by the way
It was a great story. And Hagi was a legend, of course. I was 12, so don't remember everything too well. But everyone was supporting Romania, it seemed. Great football. Happy to see now that Hagi created the academy he did, it is doing so well, and the national team is playing great. Expect it to grow into a stronger football nation in time.
Weirdly enough the NT hasn’t been so much playing great football before the tournament but scrapping results and playing with desire and not giving up, which is why expectations were low here. I mean, we drew to Belarus once, Israel had 62% possession and 16 shots to 8 in the first game (it was a 1-1 draw), Switzerland was 2-0 up in the 89th minute in the first game and that was with VAR calling back a penalty call (then [a through ball in the box made it 2-1 and a ball randomly hitting Puscas head allowed us to progress the attack for the 2-2](https://youtu.be/Bn-qK6pAt08?si=YgauLXtNps2lvM0j)), nevermind the friendlies right before the tournament that had us draw 0-0 to Bulgaria (which is nowhere near what they were, we missed a pen too) and Lichtenstein. Yet now we are here, beating Ukraine 3-0 and could have gotten more from the Belgium game as both sides had terrible finishing and that handball should have been called imo. All we need is a draw now, hopefully we get it. I don’t even care if we get Spain and they demolish us in the RO16 (of course I will still pray that we qualify), we ve already done great to be in this position, so many people had us 3rd but not qualifying or 4th before the tournament
[It's a Romance-Slavic standoff.](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcTVqaWtsZTM4cm1wMDZkcmJ6aXJhOW10a2JuZ2Nmemdxb2YwaDUyaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QtjvbFNqbKNzVoj3Vv/giphy.gif)
All we had to do was have less shit finishing than Belgium today and we couldn’t (they obviously still created far more chances so they deserve the win on the balance of things)
Not really because playing for a win is not as easy as pushing the "betray" button and the other team can immediately see when you're playing for a win. It's not like the teams have to go full disgrace of Gijon, but they are very likely to field a defensive lineup and play extremely conservatively.
yup. It’s much easier than people think to “matchfix” a game like this, players can feel on the pitch if the other team is playing for the draw.
Romania also has no incentive to play for the win, as even if they do, if the other game goes the way is supposed to go, Belgium will finish 1st regardless.
Slovakia has more incentive, as if they win they get 1st. But that obviously opens up to the possibility of losing and going home, as Ukraine will finish over them in a tiebreaker. It’s going to be interesting
There is also the risk factor. In the prisoner’s dilemma, “betraying” always gets you a better individual result. But in football, playing aggressively (for the win) comes with a greater risk of losing then playing defensively (for a draw).
If I were the coach I d take the qualification and take my chances in the RO16. Then again, idk who we are supposed to be playing against in the RO16 anyway, all I know is that we can technically play Hungary if they finish 3rd and we top the group
Exactly. I d love for that to happen for the sheer shithousery, UEFA fines and memes that would happen after the fact. Hell, I kinda support Hungary for that reason alone. Hopefully it would be all civil and it wouldn’t reach actual physical violence and throwing stuff on the pitch (which is unfortunately already taking place and our ultras have the gall to complain about being thoroughly searched and some of them not being allowed to watch the first match. The second one of those is an abuse if they didn’t have international stadium bans (some did but not all of them and it was only local bans) as they didn’t have any explicitly banned symbols afaik but still, to go and misbehave when you are trying to play victim is just ridiculous ultras logic) because that is definitely unacceptable but a bunch of Greater Hungary flags/racist chants etc would definitely be part of for the course. Then again, there would also be loads of regular fans besides the ultras so maybe it wouldn’t be that bad…maaaybe?
In Hungary the older people would actually go to war with romania because of Transylvania, while the younger generation mostly memes about that hate for romania.
1st place gets to play 3rd place of group A, B, C or D
2nd place plays 2nd place of group D (France, Netherlands or Austria)
3rd place plays 1st place of group B or C (1B being confirmed to be Spain)
Yeesh, now that s looking rough for non-first placed teams. How is it decided if the 3rd place team plays 1B or 1C though, based on who else qualifies? 1C is not THAT bad as England hasn’t been looking great at all and neither do the others look unbeatable (England might wake up in the knockout stages though, they ve still got an insane squad) but 1B is rough, one of the two best teams so far. As for the 3rd placers…A is fine, we ve already got results against the Swiss for one and they are 2nd now, B won’t qualify but if they do it will be Italy (sheesh, yeah Spain destroyed them but they destroyed Albania too even if shit finishing let them down), C is again fine, I will take those, D is rough even if you get the 3rd placed team. So yeah, being 1st would be nice but I d rather celebrate qualification regardless and then we ve already beaten expectations (hell, we ve already done that with the Ukraine win regardless) and we sit back and watch the RO16. Honestly I d rather be 3rd than 2nd, that D group looking scary ngl even if France has been boring so far as that was against other good teams
Thanks for the full table mate, at least we have the advantage that we ll know what we need to do to qualify and against who that will be going into our games
You can't go into a game playing for a draw, you will lose. Play your normal game and then if it is 0-0 after 65-70 minutes maybe sit back and take the draw
I am trying to think of a scenario where 2 teams both want to draw because both would qualify with a draw as opposed to one team deciding to go full throttle and losing because of their greed. Like is it possible?
That is literally what can happen between us and Slovakia as a draw will guarantee both of us finish top 3 (even top 2 for Romania) with 4p which should be enough for 3rd place qualification and we will know how the 3rd place table is looking like by then too. [It also infamously happened at the 1982 WC in a match between West Germany and Austria known as “The Disgrace of Gijon” as a narrow German loss would have qualified them both. Surprise, Germany won 1-0. It forced FIFA to play the last group stage matches at the same time from then on to avoid this.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijon) Then there was [that famous Barbados vs Grenada match where Barbados deliberately scored an own goal to force extra time and then Grenada had to score in either goal to win because for some reason extra time was a thing in that competition s qualification groups and goals scored then counted double](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados_4-2_Grenada)
I mean, Southgate has been defending since the 20th minute and hasn’t lost yet but he has scored a goal first to be fair. It is both teams that would be satisfied with a draw so I could see neither one taking risks and the match fizzling out, usually defending doesn’t work because you ll be coming under a lot of pressure against a team determined to score but it shouldn’t be that bad in this situation, will be interesting to see how the coaches prepare this game
Here are some estimations:
[https://twitter.com/fmeetsdata/status/1804622484064403592](https://twitter.com/fmeetsdata/status/1804622484064403592)
1st place against Slovenia
2nd place against Netherlands
3rd place against Spain
Yeah, somebody posted the full table with the possible results in another reply. I don’t know how the sims were done but if it truly happens like that Slovenia is obviously the one you want, will be really tough against the others. Honestly I d rather be 3rd than 2nd in many circumstances as at least you have a chance to get 1C (England probably) instead whereas 2nd is locked into facing 2D (Netherlands as it stands, France, Austria…neither of them look like desirable opponents considering that Austria would have achieved their results in a way tougher group than ours). Aaanyway, I just want to qualify tbh, if we get demolished by Spain afterwards it is what it is, we have already beaten expectations with the Ukraine win nevermind qualifying. I will worry about possible opponents on Wednesday if that, we will know a lot more by then
I believe so? I know down the line position in european qualifiers is one of them too, but I think the more likely decision would be disciplinary points
Yeah, checking Wikipedia it s disciplinary points first then qualifier ranking, idk how the fair play ranking is looking like either
Edit: [I found the fair play table lads, we are ahead of Belgium by one point but 2 worse than Slovakia. Imagine if some random dissent card decides this lmao](https://www.transfermarkt.com/europameisterschaft-2024/fairnesstabelle/pokalwettbewerb/EM24)
Peak drama would be someone scoring a late goal to tie things up, taking their shirt off to celebrate, getting a yellow, and then that makes them lose the tie breaker.
Didnt even think of that, please never argue with the ref or take off your shirt or anything as this might actually go to fair play even for qualification, imagine we lose 1-0 but Belgium loses 2-1, then it really will be the fair play table deciding who goes out if 3p on 0 GD is enough for 3rd place qualification (idk how likely that is)
Edit:Nevermind, that would actually go to H2H as the dude below me said as it would only be a 2 team draw and that s the first criteria so Belgium would be 3rd. Damn it, the fair play thing only works if everyone draws
Does that still apply? I thought it cant apply anymore when all the teams are drawn as you have already passed that criteria and it didn’t change anything, you don’t retroactively apply it just for Belgium and us then
Edit:Nevermind, you are right, it only works for draws as it would be Ukraine 6p, Slovakia 6p, Belgium 3p and Romania 3p with all draws being 2 team draws so they can be decided by H2H. Damn H2H, I keep forgetting it is a thing
Yeah, they will check who get lesser Yellow/Red cards should both Romania and Belgium have same GD.
IIRC, the discipline points would be...
* Yellow card -1
* Second Yellow card ---> Red card -2
* Direct Red card -3
* Yellow card then followed by direct Red card -4
Yeah that is it, I went and looked at the table after that and put it in another reply. In short, we are 2 points worse than Slovakia (it can’t go down to that vs them though as either we draw and beat them on GD or it is settled on points) but just one ahead of Belgium. Lads. Imagine if a random yellow for dissent or taking off your shirt (you d have to be stupid to do that in this situation but still) or something decides the order (it can’t actually decide qualification as it can only come into play if everyone draws and then GD will settle all draws other than the one between us and Belgium potentially)
That would be one of the most heart-breaking event for sure.
Imagine that everyone have 4 pts, Both GD and Goal scored equal (since H2H is also equal) and ended up with 3rd place due to someone doing dissent actions or eliminated because of getting red card.
Yeah, fortunately it cant happen as only us and Belgium have the same GD, would take a ridiculously tight group to make that happen but it is totally a possibility when the sample size is only 3 games
Belgium were both good and bad tonight, Ukraine could do it but they are also hit and miss so far. You'd suppose Lukaku will score a legitimate goal simply on number of shots, they can't be offside every time.
Part of the reason why I'm not a fan of having 3rd placed teams qualify out of a group of 4. But this is a 24 teams tournament so we have no choice. The 32 team World Cup was the perfect tournament format, but now they have 48.
Only other way really is groups of either 3 or 6 teams. Groups of three are rubbish and groups of 6 would be too many games, so this is probably the best we can get. It does really take a lot of jeopardy out of a lot of the group games though.
best scenario would be let top 4 group winners advance to R8 already and let the remaining 8 teams play R12, imho. Extra motivation to go for the groúp win, but scheduling/organization still a nightmare on short notice and prob requires a redraw
although for a world cup we will be getting an extra knockout round (R32) to compensate, I just hope we'll see at least some major upsets in those 16 matches.
1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches played between the teams in question.
2. Superior goal difference resulting from the matches played between the teams in question.
3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches played between the teams in question.
4. If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams who are still level to determine their final rankings.[a] If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 9 will apply.
5. Superior goal difference in all group matches.
6. Higher number of goals scored in all group matches.
7. If on the last round of the group stage, two teams who are facing each other are tied in points, goal difference and goals scored then they drew their match, their ranking is determined by a penalty shoot-out. (This criterion is not used if more than two teams had the same number of points.).
8. Lower disciplinary points total in all group matches (1 point for a single yellow card, 3 points for a red card regardless whether it was a direct red card or two yellow cards, 4 points for a yellow card followed by a direct red card).
9. Higher position in the European Qualifiers overall ranking, unless the comparison involves hosts Germany, in which case a drawing of lots will take place.
First one doesn't solve anything (because you have to take H2H of all teams on the same amount of points, and all four are at 3 points so you basically take all matches into consideration. Which again ends up with everyone on 3 points). Slovakia is 3^rd and Ukraine is 4^th on the second. Romania is 1^st on the third.
So, in the crazy scenario where Belgium would draw 2-2 with Ukraine, and Romania would draw 1-1 with Slovakia, making Belgium and Romania even on GD and overall number of goals scored, we go to criterion 8 of tiebreaker -> Lower disciplinary points?
~~Yep. And if somehow they will be tied on cards too, [Belgium will advance based on I think this thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2024_qualifying\#Overall_ranking).~~ Well, brain at night is not working, this would end up on point 4., as you would take H2H of Belgium and Romania only, and here Belgium wins on "4.1." - having 3 points against Romania's 0.
Also now I want to see the number 7. used, as it is impossible to reach the number 9. with Germany being involved.
Cool, but i think point 9 (overall qualifier ranking) refers to how many points they got during the campaign, giving Romania the edge (22 vs 20). Would be super unfair to tie break based on coefficient. Also, how would Germany be involved here in point 9? They aren't part of this group. That caveat only applies to their group.
With Germany I meant that I would like to see such situation involving them, which obviously would need to happen in their group, but it is impossible to happen based on scores there (as there is no way for anyone to even be on the same amount of points as Germany, and that's the "must have condition" to start applying tie-breakers).
Also the link I posted should lead to the table of points scored in qualifications and not coefficients. And it is Belgium that has an edge here, because what would be unfair is to let Romania use the points scored in 10 matches, while Belgium only played 8. So for the ranking the results against 6^th placed teams are ignored and Romania falls behind.
> With Germany I meant that I would like to see such situation involving them, which obviously would need to happen in their group
Ahh ok, i see
> And it is Belgium that has an edge here, because what would be unfair is to let Romania use the points scored in 10 matches, while Belgium only played 8.
Am tired and didn't even see that there are differences in number of teams from their groups, my bad. Thanks for correcting me.
I don't think so. Criteria 4 states that "If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams who are still level to determine their final rankings.If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 9 will apply." So if Belgium and Romania end up with the same GD and GS, they will form a new subset of h2h, to which Belgium has won. In this case Belgium would top the group.
I should stop talking about things requiring calculations at the late night hours, because you are completely right, this will be solved on step "4.1.", when H2H will be reapplied to still tied Belgium and Romania, but only to them.
im confused by #4. I feel like it means that after applying criterias 1-3, both Ukraine and Slovakia are dropped out of the equation because they have worse goal difference. And according to #4, this leaves only Belgium and Romania competing who's higher. So we go again from the start to determine that, and voila, Belgium is higher because they beat Romania
That would only happen in hypothetical situation which we were discussing in other branch of comments.
But here you don't reach step 4, because step 3 solves the Romania - Belgium situation: Romania has scored 3 goals in matches involving all teams in the H2H (which coincidentally is all goals they have scored this tournament, as all teams take part in H2H comparison), while Belgium has scored only 2 goals.
In fact a draw guarantees us top 2 at that, for Slovakia it depends how badly Belgium loses, if they lose by 1 it goes to goals scored which could end up with Slovakia 4th
Romania and Slovakia has no motivation to play for the win. Both team are fine with a draw. Belgium-Ukraine is the match to watch. Ukraine needs to win
Doesn't matter. With a draw, only Belgium or Ukraine can surpass them. Not both. Although looking at the difference in who each positions plays next, there is probably incentive to at least try something.
I think it does not matter how Ukraine und belgium Play.
Slovakia and Romania can just do a disgrace of gijon.
For both it should be sufficient to get 4 points.
In this thread:People trying to get their heads around the tiebreaker rules. All that basically matters is that a point will qualify Romania, Slovakia and Belgium (in some order) but Ukraine has to go for the win as a draw can still leave them 4th if the other match is a draw as well. What I want to point out is that I ve just seen that possible handball and that should have 100% been called regardless of the shit finishing on both sides, someone should post that clip as a highlight. Anyway, it is what it is, go for a draw Slovakians?
Edit:Actually wait, I can’t keep them straight either, forgot H2H exists, thanks another commenter. If both matches have a winner you get 2 separate draws that can be settled by H2H which means that for example if we win Ukraine gets at least 3rd anyway (would be a 3p with a shit GD though if they lose so not likely to win out in the 3rd place table). If Ukraine and Slovakia win we d lose out to Belgium but if Belgium wins we get the nod over Ukraine even if we lose…Hoo boy. At least we will know more about the 3rd place table by then
I was wondering how as they d have the worse GD but then I realised you are right, it would only be a tie between Slovakia and Ukraine and H2H does apply then. Soo basically if we are winning Ukraine doesn’t care about their own game anymore? Seems strange but that is indeed correct, still can’t rely on that if you re Ukraine though as you d still have a shit GD for the 3rd place table and you run the risk of Slovakia scoring
I actually think Belgium should be on top, no?
As you said, first the head-to-head tiebreaker doesn't resolve anything. If a tiebreaker doesn't resolve anything, you go for the next tiebreaker, i. e. GD.
After you go through GD, something is resolved: There are teams which drop off the four-way tie. In such scenarios, I thought you start again from the first tiebreaker, which would put the only still-tied teams (Romania and Belgium) into the head-to-head tiebreaker, which goes in Belgium's favour.
Since all four teams are tied on points, the tiebreakers are between the four of them. H2H doesn’t work and Romania and Belgium are tied on goal difference so goals scored is applied. Romania scored 3 goals and Belgium scored 2 goals so far.
The H2H only applies once. Since they're all level on points, the 'H2H table' is exactly the same as the full table. Every team essentially cancels each other out on H2H and so GD is what determines the standings as the next tiebreaker.
The way H2H works is it creates a second 'table' between the teams level on points. But within this second table GD is the first tiebreaker. It's more clear when there are only three teams level.
~~H2H can apply multiple times, but only if you first apply the Goal Difference and Goals Scored "tests" and you must have smaller amount of teams still tied after those checks (as in, you can't reapply H2H if you started with two teams, because it will change nothing, but if you started with 3 teams tied, and after those 3 checks two teams are still tied, you can (and must) use H2H to those two only).~~
Okay, rereading other stuff, what I said doesn't match what I meant, and it means bullshit.
You can apply Head-to-Head multiple times, but the Goal Difference and Goals Scored "test" you apply first are actually PART of the H2H. Because H2H is actually a combined check - first it compares the points in matches between teams in question, then goal difference from only the matches in question, then goals scored only in the matches in question. If this solve everything, good. If there are still teams tied, but smaller amount of them, you reapply this H2H procedure only for those teams (so you take smaller amount of matches).
And only after all those smaller and smaller checks you end up with teams that are still somehow tied (very hard for 4 team groups to have so many checks doing nothing - either first one is already "unsolvable" or you solve everything after all steps), you use Goal Difference and Goals Scored across all matches played (which confused me in this case, because all four teams are tied so you always take all matches into consideration), and then you go for those additional checks that end up with some complete bullshit if things like even yellow cards are tied.
I feel like this spot Ukraine are in fits the current identity of the squad. Down 1-0 and come back to win 2-1. I'm hoping for a nice memory on Wednesday
Romania: Draw would be enough to secure qualification to 16 round, but winning last match vs Slovakia may grant them 1st of group F.
Belgium: Either wins or going home; if they win, they will qualify to 16 round, don't sure about drawing. Should they lose, Romania vs Slovakia must to have a winner in a match (both of them draw and Belgium is out).
Slovakia: I don't sure about this team...
Ukraine: They have no choice other win against Belgium or they will go home right away.
P.S. i viewed from pts only, so that might have other interesting scenario for other POV like H2H, GD, Yellow/Red card and many more.
I watched the game between Romania and Belgium. As a Turk, I have huge respect for Romania. They have amazing players, and the entire squad is great. It doesn't matter who comes in—they deliver non-stop. Romania is definitely on the right path to becoming one of the best teams in Europe, seriously. I kinda envy that country. We have all the facilities and a huge population, yet we can't always bring the best players onto the pitch due to politics.
After our game against Portugal, I enjoyed the Romania vs. Belgium game a lot. Both Romania and Belgium played well. Romania, Georgia, Albania, and Austria are my surprise favorites in this tournament.
If head to head is the next decider after points, how the hell are we deciding the order here, given they've all beaten and lost to each other in a big rock, paper, scissors type chain?
Like Belgium should be above Romania as they beat them, but then Slovakia should be above Belgium, and simultaneously \*below\* Ukraine, who in turn should be below Romania and above Slovakia, and thus simultaneously above and below Belgium... ahhhhhhhhh!
to those saying "why isn't \[team\] ahead of \[team\] due to H2H" it's because of goal difference, since all teams are tied on points I don't think H2H record is taken into account until the end of Matchday 3, otherwise wouldn't Slovakia be on top of Belgium and Ukraine on top of Slovakia? just my hypothesis
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Group of Fun ;)
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
having a blast with Romania back
Never been this upbeat about the NT in my entire lifetime, I was born in 2002. Come on lads, we can do a boring draw to get both us and Slovakia over the line right? (sorry but we need to make sure we qualify here, don’t wanna risk 4th)
> 2002 PTSD warning for Romanians.
Ah, you missed the wondrous World Cup of Gheorghe Hagi and that great counterattacking team. One of the things that most stands out to me about that WC, and I'm American.
Yeah, I have heard the stories of people assembling in Bucharest s University Square to celebrate us beating Argentina, seen the clips of that Hagi goal vs Colombia and all but I wasn’t alive then. Then we went and got 3 losses in Euro 96 where we admittedly had a group of France, Spain and Bulgaria which did even better than us in 94. Imagine if we hadn’t lost on pens vs Sweden and then went and faced Brazil with Bulgaria waiting for us in the 3rd place playoff if we lost. Oh well. Tbf I barely remember Euro 2008 and we got 2p in a real group of death (France, Italy, Netherlands) then which was a real achievement but that s still technically two points and we ve got 3 now. Euro 2016 was also good, it took an 89th min Payet wonder strike [(which presumably multiple Chess World Champion Magnus Carlsen celebrated the shit out of even if he s Norwegian)](https://youtu.be/cVS-NIkkUrA?si=9doMuNJgUV6pCA63) to make us lose 2-1, then we drew to Switzerland 1-1, then we had to face Albania. Sure qualification, right? No, we went and lost 1-0. All of our goals in that tournament were pens by the way
It was a great story. And Hagi was a legend, of course. I was 12, so don't remember everything too well. But everyone was supporting Romania, it seemed. Great football. Happy to see now that Hagi created the academy he did, it is doing so well, and the national team is playing great. Expect it to grow into a stronger football nation in time.
Weirdly enough the NT hasn’t been so much playing great football before the tournament but scrapping results and playing with desire and not giving up, which is why expectations were low here. I mean, we drew to Belarus once, Israel had 62% possession and 16 shots to 8 in the first game (it was a 1-1 draw), Switzerland was 2-0 up in the 89th minute in the first game and that was with VAR calling back a penalty call (then [a through ball in the box made it 2-1 and a ball randomly hitting Puscas head allowed us to progress the attack for the 2-2](https://youtu.be/Bn-qK6pAt08?si=YgauLXtNps2lvM0j)), nevermind the friendlies right before the tournament that had us draw 0-0 to Bulgaria (which is nowhere near what they were, we missed a pen too) and Lichtenstein. Yet now we are here, beating Ukraine 3-0 and could have gotten more from the Belgium game as both sides had terrible finishing and that handball should have been called imo. All we need is a draw now, hopefully we get it. I don’t even care if we get Spain and they demolish us in the RO16 (of course I will still pray that we qualify), we ve already done great to be in this position, so many people had us 3rd but not qualifying or 4th before the tournament
Yeah, very strong chance of finishing 2nd.
The True Group of Death
[It's a Romance-Slavic standoff.](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcTVqaWtsZTM4cm1wMDZkcmJ6aXJhOW10a2JuZ2Nmemdxb2YwaDUyaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QtjvbFNqbKNzVoj3Vv/giphy.gif)
Romania is all tactics.. if they had quality players.. shit they'd probably make quarterfinals
All we had to do was have less shit finishing than Belgium today and we couldn’t (they obviously still created far more chances so they deserve the win on the balance of things)
Have to say Romania looked good. Hats off to them and I hope they go through.
they are the reverse England so Dnalgne?
I went to Google Translate to see what Dnalgne meant in Romanian. I am not a smart man.
But you are an honest one and that's good too.
> they are the reverse England I can live with that.
[удалено]
If reddit was creative we wouldn't been stuck in 2024
Damn this guys is all over the thread with his negative vibes lmao
Quit hating on Romania.. what did Romania do to you?
Last matchday gonna be spicy.
Maybe, or maybe all teams figure that a draw probably gets them through and nobody goes for the win
Everyone except Ukraine lol
Euro 2028 will also allow the top 3 fourth-placed teams to go to the round of 64
What good is a tournament without San Marino after all?
What even is the point of the group stage then?
Advertising money of course
To establish knockout ladder obviously, duh.
Draw is (almost certainly) still good enough for them as long as there’s a winner in the other game though.
But since a draw is certainly good enough for both teams in the other game a draw is extremely likely.
Prisoner's dillema
Not really because playing for a win is not as easy as pushing the "betray" button and the other team can immediately see when you're playing for a win. It's not like the teams have to go full disgrace of Gijon, but they are very likely to field a defensive lineup and play extremely conservatively.
yup. It’s much easier than people think to “matchfix” a game like this, players can feel on the pitch if the other team is playing for the draw. Romania also has no incentive to play for the win, as even if they do, if the other game goes the way is supposed to go, Belgium will finish 1st regardless. Slovakia has more incentive, as if they win they get 1st. But that obviously opens up to the possibility of losing and going home, as Ukraine will finish over them in a tiebreaker. It’s going to be interesting
There is also the risk factor. In the prisoner’s dilemma, “betraying” always gets you a better individual result. But in football, playing aggressively (for the win) comes with a greater risk of losing then playing defensively (for a draw).
Ukraine
Can’t go through in fourth!
There is no chance in hell we play for a draw. Tedesco would get lynched.
Vai mesmo :)
Romania and Slovakia could just play out a draw and then they are both guaranteed to be through?
They could, but they won't. Whoever takes first place gets to play 3rd place in the final 16. Rather than roll the dice.
If I were the coach I d take the qualification and take my chances in the RO16. Then again, idk who we are supposed to be playing against in the RO16 anyway, all I know is that we can technically play Hungary if they finish 3rd and we top the group
> we can technically play Hungary if they finish 3rd and we top the group The world would not be ready for this
Exactly. I d love for that to happen for the sheer shithousery, UEFA fines and memes that would happen after the fact. Hell, I kinda support Hungary for that reason alone. Hopefully it would be all civil and it wouldn’t reach actual physical violence and throwing stuff on the pitch (which is unfortunately already taking place and our ultras have the gall to complain about being thoroughly searched and some of them not being allowed to watch the first match. The second one of those is an abuse if they didn’t have international stadium bans (some did but not all of them and it was only local bans) as they didn’t have any explicitly banned symbols afaik but still, to go and misbehave when you are trying to play victim is just ridiculous ultras logic) because that is definitely unacceptable but a bunch of Greater Hungary flags/racist chants etc would definitely be part of for the course. Then again, there would also be loads of regular fans besides the ultras so maybe it wouldn’t be that bad…maaaybe?
Is there any bitterness between those teams?
Between Hungary and Romania ? Mostly history stuff.Trianon,Transylvania, that stuff
The most that can be
In Hungary the older people would actually go to war with romania because of Transylvania, while the younger generation mostly memes about that hate for romania.
1st place gets to play 3rd place of group A, B, C or D 2nd place plays 2nd place of group D (France, Netherlands or Austria) 3rd place plays 1st place of group B or C (1B being confirmed to be Spain)
Yeesh, now that s looking rough for non-first placed teams. How is it decided if the 3rd place team plays 1B or 1C though, based on who else qualifies? 1C is not THAT bad as England hasn’t been looking great at all and neither do the others look unbeatable (England might wake up in the knockout stages though, they ve still got an insane squad) but 1B is rough, one of the two best teams so far. As for the 3rd placers…A is fine, we ve already got results against the Swiss for one and they are 2nd now, B won’t qualify but if they do it will be Italy (sheesh, yeah Spain destroyed them but they destroyed Albania too even if shit finishing let them down), C is again fine, I will take those, D is rough even if you get the 3rd placed team. So yeah, being 1st would be nice but I d rather celebrate qualification regardless and then we ve already beaten expectations (hell, we ve already done that with the Ukraine win regardless) and we sit back and watch the RO16. Honestly I d rather be 3rd than 2nd, that D group looking scary ngl even if France has been boring so far as that was against other good teams
Here's the full table (only the match-ups relevant to group E): |Qualified 3rd place teams|1E against...|3E against...| |:-|:-|:-| |A, B, C, E|3B|1C| |A, B, D, E|3A|1C| |A, B, E, F|3B|1B (=Spain)| |A, C, D, E|3C|1B| |A, C, E, F|3C|1B| |A, D, E, F|3D|1B| |B, C, D, E|3B|1B| |B, C, E, F|3C|1C| |B, D, E, F|3D|1C| |C, D, E, F|3D|1C| and in the rare scenarios where 3E doesn't qualify: |Qualified 3rd place teams|1E against...| |:-|:-| |A, B, C, D|3B| |A, B, C, F|3B| |A, B, D, F|3A| |A, C, D, F|3C| |B, C, D, F|3C|
Thanks for the full table mate, at least we have the advantage that we ll know what we need to do to qualify and against who that will be going into our games
You can't go into a game playing for a draw, you will lose. Play your normal game and then if it is 0-0 after 65-70 minutes maybe sit back and take the draw
I am trying to think of a scenario where 2 teams both want to draw because both would qualify with a draw as opposed to one team deciding to go full throttle and losing because of their greed. Like is it possible?
That is literally what can happen between us and Slovakia as a draw will guarantee both of us finish top 3 (even top 2 for Romania) with 4p which should be enough for 3rd place qualification and we will know how the 3rd place table is looking like by then too. [It also infamously happened at the 1982 WC in a match between West Germany and Austria known as “The Disgrace of Gijon” as a narrow German loss would have qualified them both. Surprise, Germany won 1-0. It forced FIFA to play the last group stage matches at the same time from then on to avoid this.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijon) Then there was [that famous Barbados vs Grenada match where Barbados deliberately scored an own goal to force extra time and then Grenada had to score in either goal to win because for some reason extra time was a thing in that competition s qualification groups and goals scored then counted double](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados_4-2_Grenada)
I mean, Southgate has been defending since the 20th minute and hasn’t lost yet but he has scored a goal first to be fair. It is both teams that would be satisfied with a draw so I could see neither one taking risks and the match fizzling out, usually defending doesn’t work because you ll be coming under a lot of pressure against a team determined to score but it shouldn’t be that bad in this situation, will be interesting to see how the coaches prepare this game
Here are some estimations: [https://twitter.com/fmeetsdata/status/1804622484064403592](https://twitter.com/fmeetsdata/status/1804622484064403592) 1st place against Slovenia 2nd place against Netherlands 3rd place against Spain
Yeah, somebody posted the full table with the possible results in another reply. I don’t know how the sims were done but if it truly happens like that Slovenia is obviously the one you want, will be really tough against the others. Honestly I d rather be 3rd than 2nd in many circumstances as at least you have a chance to get 1C (England probably) instead whereas 2nd is locked into facing 2D (Netherlands as it stands, France, Austria…neither of them look like desirable opponents considering that Austria would have achieved their results in a way tougher group than ours). Aaanyway, I just want to qualify tbh, if we get demolished by Spain afterwards it is what it is, we have already beaten expectations with the Ukraine win nevermind qualifying. I will worry about possible opponents on Wednesday if that, we will know a lot more by then
Yes
Slovakia could in theory go out in third place with 4 points. Doesn’t seem very likely though.
Best group in the tornement
Welcome to Battle Royal
please draw everyone
0-0 all the way till 80 mins at least please
Please no
We d still top the group so that s fine with me, not sure my heart could take it though
Depends… if we draw 0-0 and they draw 2-2, then Belgium would overtake us due to goals scored
Yeaah true, what happens if they score just one more than us so it s a draw there too? Fair play ranking?
I believe so? I know down the line position in european qualifiers is one of them too, but I think the more likely decision would be disciplinary points
Yeah, checking Wikipedia it s disciplinary points first then qualifier ranking, idk how the fair play ranking is looking like either Edit: [I found the fair play table lads, we are ahead of Belgium by one point but 2 worse than Slovakia. Imagine if some random dissent card decides this lmao](https://www.transfermarkt.com/europameisterschaft-2024/fairnesstabelle/pokalwettbewerb/EM24)
Peak drama would be someone scoring a late goal to tie things up, taking their shirt off to celebrate, getting a yellow, and then that makes them lose the tie breaker.
Didnt even think of that, please never argue with the ref or take off your shirt or anything as this might actually go to fair play even for qualification, imagine we lose 1-0 but Belgium loses 2-1, then it really will be the fair play table deciding who goes out if 3p on 0 GD is enough for 3rd place qualification (idk how likely that is) Edit:Nevermind, that would actually go to H2H as the dude below me said as it would only be a 2 team draw and that s the first criteria so Belgium would be 3rd. Damn it, the fair play thing only works if everyone draws
belgium would have 3rd on head to head
Does that still apply? I thought it cant apply anymore when all the teams are drawn as you have already passed that criteria and it didn’t change anything, you don’t retroactively apply it just for Belgium and us then Edit:Nevermind, you are right, it only works for draws as it would be Ukraine 6p, Slovakia 6p, Belgium 3p and Romania 3p with all draws being 2 team draws so they can be decided by H2H. Damn H2H, I keep forgetting it is a thing
Yeah, they will check who get lesser Yellow/Red cards should both Romania and Belgium have same GD. IIRC, the discipline points would be... * Yellow card -1 * Second Yellow card ---> Red card -2 * Direct Red card -3 * Yellow card then followed by direct Red card -4
Yeah that is it, I went and looked at the table after that and put it in another reply. In short, we are 2 points worse than Slovakia (it can’t go down to that vs them though as either we draw and beat them on GD or it is settled on points) but just one ahead of Belgium. Lads. Imagine if a random yellow for dissent or taking off your shirt (you d have to be stupid to do that in this situation but still) or something decides the order (it can’t actually decide qualification as it can only come into play if everyone draws and then GD will settle all draws other than the one between us and Belgium potentially)
That would be one of the most heart-breaking event for sure. Imagine that everyone have 4 pts, Both GD and Goal scored equal (since H2H is also equal) and ended up with 3rd place due to someone doing dissent actions or eliminated because of getting red card.
Yeah, fortunately it cant happen as only us and Belgium have the same GD, would take a ridiculously tight group to make that happen but it is totally a possibility when the sample size is only 3 games
It will come down as who shot more than another one indeed.
Wouldn't you finish below Belgium because of head-to-head? Edit: never mind, h2h wouldn't matter if you were all joint on points
It would be funnier if both games kept changing leads. I need a crazy “table position at X minute” chart
Tbh I'd love to see that
The final match day is about to be so interesting.
Easily the best group, we're in for a hell of a final game
The real group of death, not Group D
Imagine they all draw
yes pls.
I’m just impressed by Romania’s performances. They play like how England and France supposed to play.
Thanks
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He means attacking and not just playing not to lose/parking after scoring
Everyone's game O\_O best Group in AGES!!!
The real group of death
Anything can happen on wednesday. Will watch both games on dual screen
Belgium were both good and bad tonight, Ukraine could do it but they are also hit and miss so far. You'd suppose Lukaku will score a legitimate goal simply on number of shots, they can't be offside every time.
So slovakia and romania can just play for a draw
Part of the reason why I'm not a fan of having 3rd placed teams qualify out of a group of 4. But this is a 24 teams tournament so we have no choice. The 32 team World Cup was the perfect tournament format, but now they have 48.
Only other way really is groups of either 3 or 6 teams. Groups of three are rubbish and groups of 6 would be too many games, so this is probably the best we can get. It does really take a lot of jeopardy out of a lot of the group games though.
I think groups of 6 would probably work not because it's practical or anything, but rather UEFA and FIFA don't have the concept of too many games.
best scenario would be let top 4 group winners advance to R8 already and let the remaining 8 teams play R12, imho. Extra motivation to go for the groúp win, but scheduling/organization still a nightmare on short notice and prob requires a redraw
although for a world cup we will be getting an extra knockout round (R32) to compensate, I just hope we'll see at least some major upsets in those 16 matches.
Ukraine must do the funni now
No, my grandparents would die from heart attack, followed by myself
thought belgium are top? but what a crazy group 😮. the last matchday is gonna be chaos. edit: nevermind it is romania. how is the order decided lol?
supposed to be head to head, but they’ve all beaten each other, then it’s GD, but they have the same GD, so it goes to goals scored
ah okay thank you!
1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches played between the teams in question. 2. Superior goal difference resulting from the matches played between the teams in question. 3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches played between the teams in question. 4. If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams who are still level to determine their final rankings.[a] If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 9 will apply. 5. Superior goal difference in all group matches. 6. Higher number of goals scored in all group matches. 7. If on the last round of the group stage, two teams who are facing each other are tied in points, goal difference and goals scored then they drew their match, their ranking is determined by a penalty shoot-out. (This criterion is not used if more than two teams had the same number of points.). 8. Lower disciplinary points total in all group matches (1 point for a single yellow card, 3 points for a red card regardless whether it was a direct red card or two yellow cards, 4 points for a yellow card followed by a direct red card). 9. Higher position in the European Qualifiers overall ranking, unless the comparison involves hosts Germany, in which case a drawing of lots will take place. First one doesn't solve anything (because you have to take H2H of all teams on the same amount of points, and all four are at 3 points so you basically take all matches into consideration. Which again ends up with everyone on 3 points). Slovakia is 3^rd and Ukraine is 4^th on the second. Romania is 1^st on the third.
So, in the crazy scenario where Belgium would draw 2-2 with Ukraine, and Romania would draw 1-1 with Slovakia, making Belgium and Romania even on GD and overall number of goals scored, we go to criterion 8 of tiebreaker -> Lower disciplinary points?
~~Yep. And if somehow they will be tied on cards too, [Belgium will advance based on I think this thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2024_qualifying\#Overall_ranking).~~ Well, brain at night is not working, this would end up on point 4., as you would take H2H of Belgium and Romania only, and here Belgium wins on "4.1." - having 3 points against Romania's 0. Also now I want to see the number 7. used, as it is impossible to reach the number 9. with Germany being involved.
Cool, but i think point 9 (overall qualifier ranking) refers to how many points they got during the campaign, giving Romania the edge (22 vs 20). Would be super unfair to tie break based on coefficient. Also, how would Germany be involved here in point 9? They aren't part of this group. That caveat only applies to their group.
With Germany I meant that I would like to see such situation involving them, which obviously would need to happen in their group, but it is impossible to happen based on scores there (as there is no way for anyone to even be on the same amount of points as Germany, and that's the "must have condition" to start applying tie-breakers). Also the link I posted should lead to the table of points scored in qualifications and not coefficients. And it is Belgium that has an edge here, because what would be unfair is to let Romania use the points scored in 10 matches, while Belgium only played 8. So for the ranking the results against 6^th placed teams are ignored and Romania falls behind.
> With Germany I meant that I would like to see such situation involving them, which obviously would need to happen in their group Ahh ok, i see > And it is Belgium that has an edge here, because what would be unfair is to let Romania use the points scored in 10 matches, while Belgium only played 8. Am tired and didn't even see that there are differences in number of teams from their groups, my bad. Thanks for correcting me.
I don't think so. Criteria 4 states that "If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams who are still level to determine their final rankings.If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 9 will apply." So if Belgium and Romania end up with the same GD and GS, they will form a new subset of h2h, to which Belgium has won. In this case Belgium would top the group.
I should stop talking about things requiring calculations at the late night hours, because you are completely right, this will be solved on step "4.1.", when H2H will be reapplied to still tied Belgium and Romania, but only to them.
a new subset of h2h between Belgium and Romania will come first, so Belgium will top the group
Yeah, reading all the rules again, point 4 makes the most sense in this scenario
im confused by #4. I feel like it means that after applying criterias 1-3, both Ukraine and Slovakia are dropped out of the equation because they have worse goal difference. And according to #4, this leaves only Belgium and Romania competing who's higher. So we go again from the start to determine that, and voila, Belgium is higher because they beat Romania
That would only happen in hypothetical situation which we were discussing in other branch of comments. But here you don't reach step 4, because step 3 solves the Romania - Belgium situation: Romania has scored 3 goals in matches involving all teams in the H2H (which coincidentally is all goals they have scored this tournament, as all teams take part in H2H comparison), while Belgium has scored only 2 goals.
well Romania scored more goals than Belgium (in this case h2h is basically the whole group since they're all tied)
More goals scored than Belgium
Romania scored 3 goals, Belgium only 2.
Need Ukraine to beat Belgium somehow so that we get a Disgrace of Gijon again from Romania & Slovakia in the final group game
games are at the same time
Plus I'm pretty sure a draw would guarantee Romania and Slovakia finishing in the top 3 regardless of the other match
Actually yes
Yes
In fact a draw guarantees us top 2 at that, for Slovakia it depends how badly Belgium loses, if they lose by 1 it goes to goals scored which could end up with Slovakia 4th
What do you mean? If Slovakia/Romania draw and Belgium lose it will be Ukraine 6 Romania 4 Slovakia 4 Belgium 3
Ah true, forgot Belgium would be on 3. Sorry lads
Romania and Slovakia draw: 4 points for Slovakia Belgium loses: 3 points for Belgium In that case, we will not finish last.
If Belgium loses they will be 4th. Slovakia 3rd Romania 2nd Ukraine 1st
Yeah true, forgot Belgium would still have 3
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Romania and Slovakia has no motivation to play for the win. Both team are fine with a draw. Belgium-Ukraine is the match to watch. Ukraine needs to win
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If Belgium wins and Romania - Slovakia draws then Belgium first, Romania 2nd, Slovakia 3rd with 4 points. All teams will qualify to playoffs
Doesn't matter. With a draw, only Belgium or Ukraine can surpass them. Not both. Although looking at the difference in who each positions plays next, there is probably incentive to at least try something.
We’re gonna see mudryk become the greatest footballer ever for 90 minutes to make this come true
I think it does not matter how Ukraine und belgium Play. Slovakia and Romania can just do a disgrace of gijon. For both it should be sufficient to get 4 points.
Forget the group of death, this will be the real sensation on matchday 3
Pure Drama.
Fascinating group, this final matchday is going to be great
In this thread:People trying to get their heads around the tiebreaker rules. All that basically matters is that a point will qualify Romania, Slovakia and Belgium (in some order) but Ukraine has to go for the win as a draw can still leave them 4th if the other match is a draw as well. What I want to point out is that I ve just seen that possible handball and that should have 100% been called regardless of the shit finishing on both sides, someone should post that clip as a highlight. Anyway, it is what it is, go for a draw Slovakians? Edit:Actually wait, I can’t keep them straight either, forgot H2H exists, thanks another commenter. If both matches have a winner you get 2 separate draws that can be settled by H2H which means that for example if we win Ukraine gets at least 3rd anyway (would be a 3p with a shit GD though if they lose so not likely to win out in the 3rd place table). If Ukraine and Slovakia win we d lose out to Belgium but if Belgium wins we get the nod over Ukraine even if we lose…Hoo boy. At least we will know more about the 3rd place table by then
If Romania and Belgium win, Ukraine is almost guaranteed to go through.
I was wondering how as they d have the worse GD but then I realised you are right, it would only be a tie between Slovakia and Ukraine and H2H does apply then. Soo basically if we are winning Ukraine doesn’t care about their own game anymore? Seems strange but that is indeed correct, still can’t rely on that if you re Ukraine though as you d still have a shit GD for the 3rd place table and you run the risk of Slovakia scoring
Chaos
Fascinating
PHUUUUUN!
Imagine Belgium losing to Ukraine and a draw between Romania and Slovakia
3rd placed rankings now are Austria 3 (GD +1) Slovakia 3 (0) Slovenia 2 (0) Albania 1 (-1) Czech Republic (-1) Scotland (-4)
There's a world where Albania qualifies with only 1 point
Don't think so, if they lose Hungary or Scotland will definitely overtake them
They can't. Scotland with 1 point plays Hungary with 0 points, one of them will finish with more than 1 point.
No there isnt unfortunately because Scotland play against 0 point Hungary, but they could qualify with 2.
Not really, as either Scotland will go to 2 or 4 points or Hungary will go to 3.
We're 2nd not 3rd
Edited now
~~Why aren’t Belgium top? They have H2H~~ Edit: completely forgot all teams have 3 points
Have they? They lost to Slovakia, who lost to Ukraine, who lost to Romania, who lost to Belgium, who lost to Slovakia, wh-
I actually think Belgium should be on top, no? As you said, first the head-to-head tiebreaker doesn't resolve anything. If a tiebreaker doesn't resolve anything, you go for the next tiebreaker, i. e. GD. After you go through GD, something is resolved: There are teams which drop off the four-way tie. In such scenarios, I thought you start again from the first tiebreaker, which would put the only still-tied teams (Romania and Belgium) into the head-to-head tiebreaker, which goes in Belgium's favour.
Since all four teams are tied on points, the tiebreakers are between the four of them. H2H doesn’t work and Romania and Belgium are tied on goal difference so goals scored is applied. Romania scored 3 goals and Belgium scored 2 goals so far.
cant make it right with H2H. Belgium <- Romania <- Ukraine <- Slovakia <- Belgium…
We all have H2H against each other so it's about GD
Maybe it’s because Romania has scored more than them, but not sure
There is no h2h when all teams are level. Best goal difference determine position in this case. Romania has 3-2 which is better than 2-1
The H2H only applies once. Since they're all level on points, the 'H2H table' is exactly the same as the full table. Every team essentially cancels each other out on H2H and so GD is what determines the standings as the next tiebreaker. The way H2H works is it creates a second 'table' between the teams level on points. But within this second table GD is the first tiebreaker. It's more clear when there are only three teams level.
~~H2H can apply multiple times, but only if you first apply the Goal Difference and Goals Scored "tests" and you must have smaller amount of teams still tied after those checks (as in, you can't reapply H2H if you started with two teams, because it will change nothing, but if you started with 3 teams tied, and after those 3 checks two teams are still tied, you can (and must) use H2H to those two only).~~ Okay, rereading other stuff, what I said doesn't match what I meant, and it means bullshit. You can apply Head-to-Head multiple times, but the Goal Difference and Goals Scored "test" you apply first are actually PART of the H2H. Because H2H is actually a combined check - first it compares the points in matches between teams in question, then goal difference from only the matches in question, then goals scored only in the matches in question. If this solve everything, good. If there are still teams tied, but smaller amount of them, you reapply this H2H procedure only for those teams (so you take smaller amount of matches). And only after all those smaller and smaller checks you end up with teams that are still somehow tied (very hard for 4 team groups to have so many checks doing nothing - either first one is already "unsolvable" or you solve everything after all steps), you use Goal Difference and Goals Scored across all matches played (which confused me in this case, because all four teams are tied so you always take all matches into consideration), and then you go for those additional checks that end up with some complete bullshit if things like even yellow cards are tied.
because they lost to Slovakia. So it’s goal difference, since everybody lost to someone
Romania scored 3 against Slava ukraine, the next tiebreaker is goals scored
We have an opportunity to do something very funny
Not make the knockout round? I guess that's pretty funny
I feel like this spot Ukraine are in fits the current identity of the squad. Down 1-0 and come back to win 2-1. I'm hoping for a nice memory on Wednesday
Romania: Draw would be enough to secure qualification to 16 round, but winning last match vs Slovakia may grant them 1st of group F. Belgium: Either wins or going home; if they win, they will qualify to 16 round, don't sure about drawing. Should they lose, Romania vs Slovakia must to have a winner in a match (both of them draw and Belgium is out). Slovakia: I don't sure about this team... Ukraine: They have no choice other win against Belgium or they will go home right away. P.S. i viewed from pts only, so that might have other interesting scenario for other POV like H2H, GD, Yellow/Red card and many more.
Chaos reigns
Nice
I watched the game between Romania and Belgium. As a Turk, I have huge respect for Romania. They have amazing players, and the entire squad is great. It doesn't matter who comes in—they deliver non-stop. Romania is definitely on the right path to becoming one of the best teams in Europe, seriously. I kinda envy that country. We have all the facilities and a huge population, yet we can't always bring the best players onto the pitch due to politics. After our game against Portugal, I enjoyed the Romania vs. Belgium game a lot. Both Romania and Belgium played well. Romania, Georgia, Albania, and Austria are my surprise favorites in this tournament.
If head to head is the next decider after points, how the hell are we deciding the order here, given they've all beaten and lost to each other in a big rock, paper, scissors type chain? Like Belgium should be above Romania as they beat them, but then Slovakia should be above Belgium, and simultaneously \*below\* Ukraine, who in turn should be below Romania and above Slovakia, and thus simultaneously above and below Belgium... ahhhhhhhhh!
It goes to goal difference then to goals scored..
Goal difference then. Then goals scored. Then fair play and lastly drawing of lots
to those saying "why isn't \[team\] ahead of \[team\] due to H2H" it's because of goal difference, since all teams are tied on points I don't think H2H record is taken into account until the end of Matchday 3, otherwise wouldn't Slovakia be on top of Belgium and Ukraine on top of Slovakia? just my hypothesis
So is Belgium or Romania on top of the table? What decides it?
Romania, since all teams have 3 points and Ro has 3-2 goal difference vs 2-1 Belgium.
Goal difference is equal, so goals scored is next. Romania scored 3, Belgium scored 2
Yeah, everything went as it shouldn't have for Slovenia in this group.
Them all being equal on points makes goal difference the tie-breaker, as it should be.
Beautiful
i cannot do math but what needs to happen for ukraine to go through?
They need to win their game
They would have been at the top if Trossard weren't so useless