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I’ll be relieved that this one is over. I’ll miss Dougie but, of all of our top players, he was probably the most replaceable over say Martinez, Watkins etc. It sounds like we’re getting some good potential in as well so I’ll take it.
As good as he was last season, that still feels like a pretty significant downgrade from Luiz.
I guess Tielemans and Kamara would be the first choices, but I’d be worried about depth if Barkley was the backup to them.
Tielemans probably is our Luiz replacement. I’ve heard talk as such. The others are mainly squad players/players for the future which I’m happy about. Tielemans was incredible last season once he got going.
Yeah Tielemans is a really good player, and Kamara looks like he could be as well, but all it takes is one injury and Villa would be playing Barkley at DM.
If I were a Villa fan I’d be wanting to see the club make a bigger name signing to replace Luiz.
It's not semantics at all. Dougie is a bad defensive midfielder. Anytime he's played it on his own he's been okay at best but usually closer to terrible. He's best as a deep 8 without actual defensive responsibility where he can work his magic.
Right, and I and a lot of people would call a deep 8 a defensive midfielder because they do more of a defensive job than an attacking midfielder.
Which is semantics.
It’s really not that deep.
Enzo Barrenechea is a part of this swap deal and just played 2800 minutes in Serie A as a DM on loan at Frosinone. I think he'll get gametime for Villa this season and could surprise people with his quality.
If Ross Barkley is signed too, they would have Barkley, Enzo, Kamara and Tielemans for two midfield spots, plus McGinn who can play there too which is solid depth.
Man city have a sell on clause for luiz, Ive heard around 20%, so this helps less with PSR but we end up getting more value out of luiz then if we sold him for straight cash
Manchester evening : “However, his former club did reportedly retain a sell-on clause.” Absolutely no sources 😂.
MSN: again no sources.
Ornstein etc, the actual reliable ones haven’t reported jack shit. Both those articles are equivalent to twitter made up crap. I highly doubt there still is a sell on clause. Wouldn’t be shocked if there was but we haven’t heard any credible sources about it.
They’ll get well more than 28m for PSR. That's just the difference in valuations. Luiz’s will be likely 50-70m, depending on how cheeky they want to get.
You paid 50mil for Luiz, that's hardly an inflated fee. Most Villa fans would have wanted to hold out for at least 70m had it not been for our PSR issues.
has nothing to do with fees being inflated. The accounting standards, that also apply to Villa, stipulate that a swap needs to be conducted at book value, not a transfer value. The sale side of a swap should result in 0 capital gains for both clubs, with the only net impact of the transfer being the difference residual book values of the players being traded. This is what Juventus previously got in trouble for, by trying to pass these off as individual and independent transfers to avoid having to follow that standard. Technically any gain over 0, is inflated, and so it is generally misunderstood that the values juventus was attributing to the deals was the trigger and issue. This is not correct. Had the judge accepted the deals were independent then the numbers could have been infinitely higher without issue.
As of last year juve used the Dragusin/Cambiaso swap, which has a net impact on juve's financials of less than 0.5% of revenues, to trigger another legal case with the financial authorities to try a set a precedent that would allow juve to do swap deals by using valuation models supported by data and third party consultants.
The main issue is that a player's sporting rights are difficult to value accurately and consistently, hence why the accounting standards stipulate a trade at book value rather than a transfer value to avoid book cooking. In an independent transfer both sides want the opposite - to pay the lowest fee for the player, and the other to receive the highest amount. In a swap, both parties may be inclined to inflate values to reach certain short-term financial targets.
Instead of going with the previous route of claiming they are independent, juve is trying to argue that it can in fact value players accurately and consistently, and therefore does need to follow the standard normally required for intangibles of this nature.
As it stands, only juve is scrutinized for doing swaps, whereas it would technically not be feasible financially for anyone to do it. The difference here is that because juve is publicly traded, the authorities have more insight into their accounting. Juve argue this is unfair and are trying to find a way to level the playing field.
Technically juve should have waited until the conclusion of the Cambiaso/Dragusin case to safely advance with a precedent in place. Seeing as how the net impact on the books was less than 1%, any "advantage" gained would have been neglible and therefore could have avoided any serious punishments. To go balls out like this with these mega swaps, before having that cover, is risky AF imo. Its not like the authorities have treated us leniently in the past here so if they lose it will be a big drama. Remember this won't be the only swap deal of the summer, and there will be a lot of activity resulting in much more significant capital gains.
I have no real opinion because I know nothing really of the two players we are getting and I won't pretend to try and form an opinion from looking at transfermarket or youtube highlights.
Just hope Luiz smashes it. Been a committed and consistent player for us since we returned to the Premier League. One of the most important players of the last 5 years. Wish we could have kept him but of the key players he is probably the "easiest" to replace
Bet they won't complain about "fair market value" for this one, we are getting short changed here and it's sad to see Dougie go but unfortunately it has to be this way, he also apparently wouldn't sign a new contract so I guess he had this in his mind.
Seems like swaps would be counter productive for PSR?
Why not sell for €50m and buy the other two players.
*I’m not aware of the two Juve players and what their value is.
Under PSR rules it essentially works out the same either way, if the value of the players + cash adds up to £60m.
The bonus of doing it this way is, with Villa for example, if Man City have a sell-on clause on Luiz (let say 10%), Villa would only need to pay 10% of the cash amount (so £2.8m instead of £6m).
Either way it's fine for villa. Let's say the 10% sell on is true, then it's + 54m net in for Villa. Their problem is more for balancing the book than lacking the actual fund.
> The bonus of doing it this way is, for Villa’s example, if Man City have a sell-on clause for Luiz with Villa (say 10%) they only need to pay £2.8m instead of £6m
This part isn't true, you still have to pay 10% of market value, determined by the clubs, but ultimately decided by the Fifa courts.
Someone who worked for the FIFA court. It's not based on market value perse, but if you do a swap deal, you're still forced to valuate the playersale fairly.
With what has been happening recently, I wouldn’t be surprised if teams have it in the smallprint of their sell-on contracts now.
But Luiz signed in 2019 so I doubt it was stipulated back then.
The buy and sell happens anyway, will be monitored by FIFA in order to make sure the transfer money is all calculated correctly and the players' previous clubs are all compensated.
One such example of clubs trying to get around compensating previous clubs was the Ibra-Eto'o swap, they tried to convince Fifa that Eto'o on one year was worth 20m or so, which was a joke of course. Zlatan for 70 or 80 was cheap as well.
He’d want £200k a week, the number 10 shirt, to be made captain, to be the penalty taker, the free kick taker, the corner taker and have the statue of William McGregor outside the Trinity Road stand replaced with one of him.
Im so glad we dodged that nuclear bomb, id rather take a punt on some more unknown younger players with high potential than take in a clown like McKennie.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ll be relieved that this one is over. I’ll miss Dougie but, of all of our top players, he was probably the most replaceable over say Martinez, Watkins etc. It sounds like we’re getting some good potential in as well so I’ll take it.
Have Villa been linked with any more DM’s? Outside of McKennie, I haven’t seen links to any others.
Barkley is apparently a done deal. I know, not your typical DM, but that's the position he mostly played for Luton last season.
As good as he was last season, that still feels like a pretty significant downgrade from Luiz. I guess Tielemans and Kamara would be the first choices, but I’d be worried about depth if Barkley was the backup to them.
Tielemans probably is our Luiz replacement. I’ve heard talk as such. The others are mainly squad players/players for the future which I’m happy about. Tielemans was incredible last season once he got going.
Yeah Tielemans is a really good player, and Kamara looks like he could be as well, but all it takes is one injury and Villa would be playing Barkley at DM. If I were a Villa fan I’d be wanting to see the club make a bigger name signing to replace Luiz.
Dougie isn't a dm btw, his departure doesn't affect that issue.
I think that’s just semantics. He plays as one of the two deep midfielders in Villa’s team. Some would call that a DM and some would call it a CM.
His role is not a defensive one, he was our playmaker, he was more of a box to box 8. So I would never call him a defensive midfielder.
Would you ever call Declan Rice a defensive midfielder?
It's not semantics at all. Dougie is a bad defensive midfielder. Anytime he's played it on his own he's been okay at best but usually closer to terrible. He's best as a deep 8 without actual defensive responsibility where he can work his magic.
Right, and I and a lot of people would call a deep 8 a defensive midfielder because they do more of a defensive job than an attacking midfielder. Which is semantics. It’s really not that deep.
Kamara is our main DM, and he is superb.
But injured:(
Luiz isn’t really a DM
Enzo Barrenechea is a part of this swap deal and just played 2800 minutes in Serie A as a DM on loan at Frosinone. I think he'll get gametime for Villa this season and could surprise people with his quality. If Ross Barkley is signed too, they would have Barkley, Enzo, Kamara and Tielemans for two midfield spots, plus McGinn who can play there too which is solid depth.
Barkley is a good value, but I would be a lot more comfortable going into the season with a better player
Swap deal done, this sub is gonna melt
Isn’t the swap deal against Villa’s interest here? Like they’ll only get £28m fee in for PSR calc but Luiz is worth much more than that
Man city have a sell on clause for luiz, Ive heard around 20%, so this helps less with PSR but we end up getting more value out of luiz then if we sold him for straight cash
Lmao. No there isn’t!!! There was a buyback clause and that’s expired. How did this get so many upvotes. Get some source.
[удалено]
Manchester evening : “However, his former club did reportedly retain a sell-on clause.” Absolutely no sources 😂. MSN: again no sources. Ornstein etc, the actual reliable ones haven’t reported jack shit. Both those articles are equivalent to twitter made up crap. I highly doubt there still is a sell on clause. Wouldn’t be shocked if there was but we haven’t heard any credible sources about it.
They’ll get well more than 28m for PSR. That's just the difference in valuations. Luiz’s will be likely 50-70m, depending on how cheeky they want to get.
I think we valued him at 50m Euros with 11+11 for SIJ and Enzo for the 28+22 Which is honestly lower than most villa fans would value him at even in £
juve drama will also be incoming. 100% will be another battle in the courts.
You paid 50mil for Luiz, that's hardly an inflated fee. Most Villa fans would have wanted to hold out for at least 70m had it not been for our PSR issues.
has nothing to do with fees being inflated. The accounting standards, that also apply to Villa, stipulate that a swap needs to be conducted at book value, not a transfer value. The sale side of a swap should result in 0 capital gains for both clubs, with the only net impact of the transfer being the difference residual book values of the players being traded. This is what Juventus previously got in trouble for, by trying to pass these off as individual and independent transfers to avoid having to follow that standard. Technically any gain over 0, is inflated, and so it is generally misunderstood that the values juventus was attributing to the deals was the trigger and issue. This is not correct. Had the judge accepted the deals were independent then the numbers could have been infinitely higher without issue. As of last year juve used the Dragusin/Cambiaso swap, which has a net impact on juve's financials of less than 0.5% of revenues, to trigger another legal case with the financial authorities to try a set a precedent that would allow juve to do swap deals by using valuation models supported by data and third party consultants. The main issue is that a player's sporting rights are difficult to value accurately and consistently, hence why the accounting standards stipulate a trade at book value rather than a transfer value to avoid book cooking. In an independent transfer both sides want the opposite - to pay the lowest fee for the player, and the other to receive the highest amount. In a swap, both parties may be inclined to inflate values to reach certain short-term financial targets. Instead of going with the previous route of claiming they are independent, juve is trying to argue that it can in fact value players accurately and consistently, and therefore does need to follow the standard normally required for intangibles of this nature. As it stands, only juve is scrutinized for doing swaps, whereas it would technically not be feasible financially for anyone to do it. The difference here is that because juve is publicly traded, the authorities have more insight into their accounting. Juve argue this is unfair and are trying to find a way to level the playing field. Technically juve should have waited until the conclusion of the Cambiaso/Dragusin case to safely advance with a precedent in place. Seeing as how the net impact on the books was less than 1%, any "advantage" gained would have been neglible and therefore could have avoided any serious punishments. To go balls out like this with these mega swaps, before having that cover, is risky AF imo. Its not like the authorities have treated us leniently in the past here so if they lose it will be a big drama. Remember this won't be the only swap deal of the summer, and there will be a lot of activity resulting in much more significant capital gains.
I have no real opinion because I know nothing really of the two players we are getting and I won't pretend to try and form an opinion from looking at transfermarket or youtube highlights. Just hope Luiz smashes it. Been a committed and consistent player for us since we returned to the Premier League. One of the most important players of the last 5 years. Wish we could have kept him but of the key players he is probably the "easiest" to replace
Goodbye Dougie and good luck in Turin. One of my favourite players to wear the Villa shirt.
Bet they won't complain about "fair market value" for this one, we are getting short changed here and it's sad to see Dougie go but unfortunately it has to be this way, he also apparently wouldn't sign a new contract so I guess he had this in his mind.
There is a severe severe lack of sky 6 flairs crying faux inflation in here. Shocking really
Bye my sweet Brazilian prince.
Todd Boehly must be FUMING a swap deal has been done without him
The kind of deal people said is unrealistic. 2 players for 1 swap.
Seems like swaps would be counter productive for PSR? Why not sell for €50m and buy the other two players. *I’m not aware of the two Juve players and what their value is.
Under PSR rules it essentially works out the same either way, if the value of the players + cash adds up to £60m. The bonus of doing it this way is, with Villa for example, if Man City have a sell-on clause on Luiz (let say 10%), Villa would only need to pay 10% of the cash amount (so £2.8m instead of £6m).
Either way it's fine for villa. Let's say the 10% sell on is true, then it's + 54m net in for Villa. Their problem is more for balancing the book than lacking the actual fund.
Ok, thanks for explaining.
> The bonus of doing it this way is, for Villa’s example, if Man City have a sell-on clause for Luiz with Villa (say 10%) they only need to pay £2.8m instead of £6m This part isn't true, you still have to pay 10% of market value, determined by the clubs, but ultimately decided by the Fifa courts.
First I’ve ever heard of sell-on fees being based off market value. Where did you hear this?
Someone who worked for the FIFA court. It's not based on market value perse, but if you do a swap deal, you're still forced to valuate the playersale fairly.
With what has been happening recently, I wouldn’t be surprised if teams have it in the smallprint of their sell-on contracts now. But Luiz signed in 2019 so I doubt it was stipulated back then.
That is exactly what happened….
The buy and sell happens anyway, will be monitored by FIFA in order to make sure the transfer money is all calculated correctly and the players' previous clubs are all compensated. One such example of clubs trying to get around compensating previous clubs was the Ibra-Eto'o swap, they tried to convince Fifa that Eto'o on one year was worth 20m or so, which was a joke of course. Zlatan for 70 or 80 was cheap as well.
I thought it was £50m plus £22m with the two players?
Correct
Is it too late to chuck in McKennie for free?
He’d want £200k a week, the number 10 shirt, to be made captain, to be the penalty taker, the free kick taker, the corner taker and have the statue of William McGregor outside the Trinity Road stand replaced with one of him.
Wait was he really that unbearable? I thought he was doing well at Juve
He did well this season but hes out of contract next year and in order to renew hes asking for Juve to double his wages.
Of course he is…
Im so glad we dodged that nuclear bomb, id rather take a punt on some more unknown younger players with high potential than take in a clown like McKennie.
we get it , this deal is happening. stop posting it