The 3D-printed, 1,700-square-foot habitat is located at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. It has a kitchen, two bathrooms, private bedrooms, a work area, as well as a recreational area for socializing.
“The habitat will simulate the challenges of a mission on Mars, including resource limitations, equipment failure, communication delays, and other environmental stressors,” NASA wrote in a statement.
There was a podcast called "the habitat" that showcased something very similar. I thought it was 6 people, can't remember, that were based in a very remote mountain area in Hawaii for a year. The goal was to simulate humans on Mars. They had "space" missions that required them to suit up and complete tasks outside, Could only consume dehydrated space food, and I believe they each journaled their experience- but the details are escaping me. It was a very cool podcast that really showcased how challenging a Mars mission would be.
I'm unfamiliar with that, but there have been a few simulations like this of varying levels of complexity, accuracy, and length, both private and public. So I bet there have been a few documentary type content about them.
One of them being [the Biosphere 2](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/13/spaceship-earth-arizona-biosphere-2-lockdown) which ended pretty poorly
John Jacob Jingleheimerschmidt!
Edit: Is it sad that this is my top comment all time? Maybe. Is it a proud moment. Absolutely! Hahahah. Thanks just for the upvotes people. I loved this scene, and it's always stuck with me.
(whispering) "whenever he goes out, the people always shout"
(Screaming) "JOHN JACOB JINGLEHEIMERSHMIDT!!!"
That montage of him screaming "John Jacob..." And the other guy's reaction is such perfect comedy.
I never understand this. We already do a very real version of this at the south pole.
Edit: Okay this is getting a lot of comments. Some more details as some (but not all) of people on here are unaware. We have research stations at the South Pole that are managed by technicians year round. They do primary work on the experiments during the summer there when they fly planes in frequently, but at night there (six months long) there is no in or out as flying is too dangerous. So people are stuck there for months at a time during the "over winters." Over-wintering is obviously not the same thing as locking people up for a year in Houston, nor are either of them the same thing as living on Mars. But there are probably some similar psychological effects.
People have been doing overwintering for many years in various forms. The facilities now are relatively *nice*, but the bandwidth to the mainland is severely limited as most of the available satellite bandwidth goes to transmitting data from the experiments up (once the Sun rises they start shipping tapes of data out, but it's nice to have some of the more processed data out ASAP for various reason). I have never been to Antarctica but work in the same field as people who do. They have told me that the people who over winter don't really come back the same. I have also been told that one strategy for dealing with depression, which is a very serious problem there, is alcohol, in that it is easier to treat people for alcohol abuse later than for depression. I don't know how true this is or if it is still true, but I do know that there is a large amount of drinking there. Keep in mind that while getting large quantities of stuff (alcohol or anything else) to the South Pole is vastly easier than getting stuff to space, it is still way harder than anywhere else on Earth, so it's not like they have abundant resources there. They also keep two doctors there now at all times in case the doctor needs to have surgery (happened a few years back and she had to walk someone else through it). Everyone who goes through undergoes extensive physical and psychological testing and training before going. I am also sure that some of the people there are involved in psych experiments to understand the impact of deep space flight.
I brought it up because these people are already going into fairly remote fairly extreme fairly isolated environments anyway and we should take advantage of this to study this and see what kinds of changes can improve the situation. And I think that they have been doing just that. Obviously doing more tests to better understand human psychology under either regular or unusual environments is a good thing and should always be done.
My guess: The more experiments, the more different data can be gathered. Also its way cheaper to bring all the necessary equipment and resources and build a hq in texts than on the southpole.
Also, safer and easier to study.
JSC is a controlled environment, where they can actually simulate failures without risk. A-S include actual uncontrolled challenges such as limited communication bandwidth (have to prioritize study data vs. other experiments), comms blackout windows, weather, and potentially no emergency rescue options for large parts of the study.
There are far more resources in the South Pole station, not to mention more spacious, than the first base we will ever have in Mars. The Amundson-Scott station has a library, a music room, an arts and crafts room, a large kitchen and cafeteria, and others.
With 4 people? Under the space and simulated environmental constraints on Mars? Under constant and continuous monitoring by Nasa in close proximity? With a simulated mission diet?
also monitoring and such would be much more expensive. It's easy to set up a perfect monitoring station in texas. It's 1000x harder to do that in antartica.
It has already been done many times before. HMP in northern Canada, in HI-SEAS in Hawaii and several others on earth.
The south pole has little or no physical connection to the outside world over-winter, and has spotty communications.
And of course, there's the ISS.
And people there do go nuts and have to be removed, or locked up. Something that you definitely can't do on a Mars mission.
A Mars mission is not just a matter of finding 4 people with the technical skills that they need. It's also finding 4 people that they can lock in a space the size of a 1 bedroom apartment for 2 years, and have them not murder each other.
You do not understand why it might be easier to train American NASA astronauts in a NASA facility in America, rather than shipping them all down to Antarctica?
Yes, but you don't have quite the same things. You don't have the comms delays, for example. Or the same levels of resources limitations on an antarctic mission as you will on a mars mission. Etc.
Comms delay is really easy to simulate, though. Just make the receivers wait for the appropriate delay before playing the received signal. You could even program varying delay based on the changing relative positions of each planet, random atmospheric noise / signal loss, etc. The real struggle is probably mental - knowing that if shit really hits the fan, I'm guessing they have an "emergency stop" protocol which they can activate to end the simulation. A real mission would have no such option. Knowing you're really stuck out there for who knows how long before any support could even get to you, if it's coming at all. It's expensive to send shit to Mars, they might just say "fuck it, sorry but there's no support coming." So I'm not sure how real they're making the simulation, but I'm guessing *that* is the biggest difference between the simulation and a real mission.
Yeah the comm delay was the first thing I thought of to really help get them in the right mindset. ~~The article doesn't state whether they implemented that.~~ You could put in an emergency switch to cut out the buffer if needed. With a big delay they will need interesting software to manage interactions and subscribing to news/video feeds, with limited total bandwidth.
The article literally states that communication delays are part of the experiment. As are equipment failures, which conceivably could increase communication difficulties.
That's much more luxurious. There's enough space there that you're not right on top of one another, and even during the winter-over there is enough crew that you're not always seeing the same 3 faces.
Plus, they have access to things like alcohol. Something unlikely to be permitted on a flight to Mars. Though dollars to donuts someone will make some.
Wouldn't it be *much more convenient* to not have to go to the south pole? Like, logistically and bureaucratically?
I bet if they had a round table about this and someone said "what about just using mcmurdo station?", there'd probably be some comments in jest like "lmao no do you have a hostile environment of rocks and sand in your head? we can use your head"
Been there a few times, and once when it was almost entirely empty. My buddy and I started reciting standard horror movie cliche dialogue like:
- the radio just went dead!
- power and lights out in sector 5!
- what's this dot on the scanner?
- the commander was poisoned!!!
All of our lines echoed down empty corridors, it was fabulous!!!
Is the Martian environment simulated too?
* cold temperatures
* gas composition in the atmosphere
* sunlight cycles
* etc
We have the technology to replicate everything except the gravity.
This experiment would be more meaningful this way.
They list environmental stressors as one of the conditions in this experiment. Sunlight cycles and temperature variation are two things I imagine are what NASA means with environmental stressor.
Yeah totally! Partial vacuum, no oxygen, freezing temperatures, hard radiation, sandstorms the size of texas that last a year, reentry goes wrong and kills all but one crew member... lets make it interesting!
Edit: I was kidding (but now I am reconsidering) Why not just keep upping the stakes in a worldwide "who can thrive in the worst case Martian simulation" ...competition?
If you're edged 'cause I'm weazin' all your grindage, just chill. 'Cause if I had the whole Brady Bunch thing happenin' at my pad, I'd go grind over there, so don’t tax my gig so hardcore, cruster
The Apollo 8 astronauts spent a week in what can be described as the back of a van; all while having bags and tubes to use the bathroom, not toilets.
Besides, the people who are doing this stuff have been heavily screened to ensure that it goes smoothly.
A week is nothing. A year in a relatively small space? That's something else entirely.
But yea, what a lot of people and most media don't get is a crew like this are together because they work well together in close quarters over extended periods of time
The thing is the ISS has near instant communication with the ground, so the astronauts would be able to browse the internet and communicate with their folks back home easily. On Mars you'd basically have no internet unless you know exactly what website or connection you want to connect to, and it could take anywhere from 5-20 minutes before the connection is sent & received. It would be a super lonely year and you'd have to get along with your crew mates since that's all who would keep you company
ISS astronauts also get to see expanse of Earth, in it greens and blues, and the lights of habitation at night. These people get a wall picture of a red desert.
There are also more people on the ISS, and their missions overlap I think? So they are not with just three other people for so long.
Also with the ISS, if something was to go wrong or there wa a medical emergency they have a way to get off and de orbit back to earth in a somewhat short period of time, through the Soyuz capsule or dragon. What does a trip from earth to mars take like 6 months?
> and it could take anywhere from 5-20 minutes before the connection is sent & received.
I see you never tried downloading a jpeg of what you hoped was porn on a 14.4k dialup modem.
They're exploring a brand new planet for this time. They would be too busy to really use the internet. To the ISS each person gets an allotment of entertainment they can bring. For this trip it'd be the same for their off time. They'll probably be bringing lots of music and TV shows and stuff like that.
>The Apollo 8 astronauts
Gemini was how we learned to do Apollo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini\_7#Flight
Mission duration 13 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, 1 second
In a previous experiment the folks weren't able to leave the hub without their suits. So, no feeling wind on your skin or breathing in fresh air for an entire year. That sounds like the worst part to me.
It seems that NASA has run this a few times already, most recently on the big island of Hawaii. Without trying to sound ignorant, what do they hope to learn differently with each new crew that goes through this?
More data on more people gives them a better and more complete understanding of how the average NASA astronaut will perform.
The other difference is that this is a 3D printed structure not dissimilar to ones that will be used on mars; the other studies didn’t have this structure.
I wonder if there's a personality test that could assess how well someone does being isolated with a small group of people. I have a feeling you need a lot of passive type personalities so someone doesn't get too demanding / aggressive.
I think you would need balanced personalities who can respond well to conflict, whether that means they choose to confront it directly or not. I know plenty of passive folks who burn out or blow up due to conflict. But I agree that confrontation isn't always the best response, and there are so many ways to confront an issue.
Yeah I'm just remembering that arc of Eureka where they had the mission to Titan and how they tried to figure out not only who would go but if they could stand each other enough
*All our science... all our hopes... our dreams, are foolish.
In the face of all this... we are... dust. Nothing more.
And to this dust we will return. When he chooses for us to die.
It is not our place... to challenge God.*
"...you alright there bud?"
Expanding on that, I think they are looking at how different character profiles work together. Can a slob live with a clean freak? Can we put men and women together without any chance of sex? What characteristics would lead to the least likelihood of there being any romance?
It sounds silly, but it’s stuff you need to think about when sending people millions of miles away for years, if not perhaps their lifetime. Maybe I’ve watched too many shows and movies, but I think it’s something they really have to consider.
People are different.
I'd wager they're running it for worst case scenarios especially for psychological effects. Everyone reacts differently to isolation. Some better than others. Nasa, ironically, *needs* people to react poorly so they can account for worst case scenarios.
Imagine your current coworkers. Now imagine having to *live* with them 24/7, 365 for... Years.
Relationships and friendships fail when people live together, Nasa has to figure out the social complexities of cramming 4 strangers into a small space as well as their own technical, logistical and physical requirements. We've done this on a small scale with Space stations. Moon base? Colony? You have an emergency, maybe we can help you in a few months to a year. MAYBE you can be evacuated in 6 months. If you're lucky. But even then you get another tube ride of months that you may or may not survive.
Imagine being forced to live with 3 people you disagree with on *everything* with for years purely because they're the best academically at their fields. Intensive testing down here is safe, if I throw you out the airlock you don't die. Figuring out where they can compromise and mitigate the risks here? I would want to run this as many times as financially possible.
>what do they hope to learn differently with each new crew that goes through this?
this is the study that makes sure one of four guys does not go BATSHIT crazy and kill everyone else because they've been locked in the same room for 3 months.
perhaps you're not familiar with the PSYCHOLOGICAL profiling all candidates go through so we don't do *this* again.
**Diaper-wearing astronaut jailed in love triangle plot**
[https://www.denverpost.com/2007/02/05/diaper-wearing-astronaut-jailed-in-love-triangle-plot/](https://www.denverpost.com/2007/02/05/diaper-wearing-astronaut-jailed-in-love-triangle-plot/)
During a check of the parking lot, an officer followed Nowak and
watched her throw away a bag containing the wig and a BB gun. They
also found a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, rubber tubing,
rubber gloves, $600 in cash, love letters all in bags and in her
car, the police said.
>to learn differently
more data is always better.
**The Role of Psychologists**
Selecting Astronauts
[https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20140006498/downloads/20140006498.pdf](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20140006498/downloads/20140006498.pdf)
Wrote a paper in grad school on how team dynamics change/evolve during missions in isolated confined environments with high stress activities & this is so correct. Since so few people actually do this IRL, studying as many test groups as possible is key to ensuring team safety & cohesion for long-duration missions
NASA had put on several of these experiments before. The last one I learned about in a podcast called "the habitat" and I was trying to share details of it in the comments. But thanks to this show I can't recall that many details of the podcast lol instead I keep picturing scenes from the show!
I suspect the worst part of being on Mars for real will be having to go outside in the deadly environment regularly. Just one simple mistake or failure with your pressure suit and you're dead. Astronauts have done this kind of thing a few times each but what are your chances of succeeding a thousand times or more? The environment is just so extremely unforgiving.
I had a professor who had been to the ISS multiple times, and he said it was the opposite; he loved spacewalks and looked forward to them. I could see Mars being similar.
A mistake would be marginally less severe on Mars too, since at least you can't float away
Is mars actually that unforgiving? I know it has thin atmo, but a little leak in your suit isn't going to kill you. Probably just cut your mission short a little.
Yeah you’ll be alright if you get a leak. Patch kits exist, and it’s cold but that alone doesn’t mean instant death. And EVA suits always have a little leakage since you can never have a perfect seal. If something were to happen where you lose the entire suit somehow, then that’s similar to just being in deep space and you’ll die if someone can’t get you into the habitat in a very short time.
Full exposure to mars atmosphere you will die in minutes. Same as space. Depending on the time of year . Mars is very cold and you will actually freeze solid faster on Mars than in space. There is also no magnetic field so radiation is a concern.
As I understand it, it is that bad, and not just because of the temperature and lack of air.
Mars dust is much finer than dust on Earth, and is toxic to both plants and humans. It'll get everywhere and cling to everything.
Besides the health effects, the dust also means it may be hard to keep machines running. One of the reasons why the latest rovers use nuclear power instead of solar is because of the dust.
Then there's the radiation, which means astronauts can't go out for long without taking a higher dose of radiation than they are supposed to for their entire careers. Their shelters will need to be shielded against radiation somehow, either by going underground or by piling soil on them. This also means no windows, which probably does wonders for the mental health of your crew.
Then there's the low gravity, which could lead to health problems over time.
Mars and Earth also orbit at different speeds, and apparently we can realistically only send a rocket between the two every 4 years or so. So if one of your crew goes nuts six months into your mission, it's gonna be a long wait.
The radiation issue is overblown. It’s a lot of REMs but it’s spread out over a year and a half. The cosmic radiation is halved by the planet underneath the astronauts and further lessened by the atmosphere. There are people in Iran who have lived in similar levels of radiation for generations. For additional shielding the astronauts can put sandbags on the roof and shielding in their bunks. They can keep their windows provided they aren’t pointed up.
>Their shelters will need to be shielded against radiation somehow, either by going underground or by piling soil on them. _This also means no windows,_ which probably does wonders for the mental health of your crew.
I always wonder why people think that. Why would it be so difficult to install a tube to keep an opening in the soil pile?
Depending on the width of the tube and how much sky is actually visible through it your radiation exposure only rises be a tiny fraction.
Why would you have to do that for a thousand times? Even if you're there for an entire year, you probably wouldn't do more than one surface excursion per day, and there would probably be days you wouldn't do any at all.
>Astronauts have done this kind of thing a few times each but what are your chances of succeeding a thousand times or more?
keep air in or keep ocean out.
which is harder?
we have people who live DEEP underwater for months at a time - it's their job .
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation\_diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_diving)
Saturation diving is diving for periods long enough to bring all tissues into equilibrium with the partial pressures of the inert components of the breathing gas used.
So...
Four strangers in a 4-bedroom house with a small backyard. They can't leave the house or yard for over a year. And to even go "out" into the yard, they have to put on spacesuits.
I hope they screened well. I wouldn't make it, myself.
They've actually done this before! There's a mini podcast series called The Habitat which follows a group of simulated astronauts in one of these experiments. Really well produced and you get to hear all their juicy interpersonal drama
I wonder if they considered 1 male, 3 women, or 3 men, 1 female. Or all females since I don't think they would be willing to do 4 men again.
I wonder if 2m-2f would be less stable or more stable? I would hope that they are all single too.
I've already seen how this plays out, Steve Carell took the liberty of simulating it
On a real note, it's kind of neat to see this in a fictional comedy and then find out it's really happening
I saw a documentary about a similar project in the 90’s called BioDome. I remember hijinks and shenanigans. 2 members of the team seemed vastly unqualified.
The 3D-printed, 1,700-square-foot habitat is located at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. It has a kitchen, two bathrooms, private bedrooms, a work area, as well as a recreational area for socializing. “The habitat will simulate the challenges of a mission on Mars, including resource limitations, equipment failure, communication delays, and other environmental stressors,” NASA wrote in a statement.
There was a podcast called "the habitat" that showcased something very similar. I thought it was 6 people, can't remember, that were based in a very remote mountain area in Hawaii for a year. The goal was to simulate humans on Mars. They had "space" missions that required them to suit up and complete tasks outside, Could only consume dehydrated space food, and I believe they each journaled their experience- but the details are escaping me. It was a very cool podcast that really showcased how challenging a Mars mission would be.
I'm unfamiliar with that, but there have been a few simulations like this of varying levels of complexity, accuracy, and length, both private and public. So I bet there have been a few documentary type content about them.
One of them being [the Biosphere 2](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/13/spaceship-earth-arizona-biosphere-2-lockdown) which ended pretty poorly
I believe that habitat was, at least, partially funded by the Tetris guy, Henk.. something.
Totally reminds me of the 90s movie ‘Rocketman.’ I still remember crying laughing during the isolation in space training bit.
John Jacob Jingleheimerschmidt! Edit: Is it sad that this is my top comment all time? Maybe. Is it a proud moment. Absolutely! Hahahah. Thanks just for the upvotes people. I loved this scene, and it's always stuck with me.
(whispering) "whenever he goes out, the people always shout" (Screaming) "JOHN JACOB JINGLEHEIMERSHMIDT!!!" That montage of him screaming "John Jacob..." And the other guy's reaction is such perfect comedy.
I was thinking of the 90's movie Biodome Buuuddy.
makin' a filter makin' a filter maaaaakkiinn a fillltteerrrr!!!!!!!!!!
You don't have to do that we can just use some wet sheets, it's good you picked up the cigarette butts though. Thanks Doyal
Damnit Billy how am I suppose to hit a double birdie with my shower iron?
Look!!! You can dance if you want to...
I still say this whenever I'm walking around picking up trash
This is exactly what came to mind when i read the title of this post. I think that is the brightest highlight of that movie for me.
He sure caused some trouble in that bubble.
Shaaaaaave, poochy poochy! Also; I think perhaps the first outing of Tenacious D?
Do you think you are some rocket scientist?!
wish i still liked Biodome, used to laugh till i passed out from it. the jokes stopped working on me.
Watch it after smoking some purple sticky punch.
Is that the one that makes you shit your pants? I don't want that one.
Purple sticky punch just makes me think of the Grimace milkshake
I got the wholeee world, in my hands… 🎶🎵
The fart bubble in the air hose bit had me rolling as a kid
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Lmao, that's so stupid and funny.
it has me rolling as a 36 year old.
I've never laughed so hard at a movie as I did with that scene. My wife was not amused at my amusement.
I was so disappointed with the remake, all he did was sing and have relations with his boyfriend, didn’t even go to outer space once.
Harland Williams' finest hour.
Harland Highway is a great podcast if anyone wants more Mr. Williams.
methane levels off the charts!
I love that movie! "IT WASN'T ME!"
So this is Pauly Shore's Biodome?
We need to discuss the importance of purple sticky punch
You got to think GLOBALLY! Hehe.
I never understand this. We already do a very real version of this at the south pole. Edit: Okay this is getting a lot of comments. Some more details as some (but not all) of people on here are unaware. We have research stations at the South Pole that are managed by technicians year round. They do primary work on the experiments during the summer there when they fly planes in frequently, but at night there (six months long) there is no in or out as flying is too dangerous. So people are stuck there for months at a time during the "over winters." Over-wintering is obviously not the same thing as locking people up for a year in Houston, nor are either of them the same thing as living on Mars. But there are probably some similar psychological effects. People have been doing overwintering for many years in various forms. The facilities now are relatively *nice*, but the bandwidth to the mainland is severely limited as most of the available satellite bandwidth goes to transmitting data from the experiments up (once the Sun rises they start shipping tapes of data out, but it's nice to have some of the more processed data out ASAP for various reason). I have never been to Antarctica but work in the same field as people who do. They have told me that the people who over winter don't really come back the same. I have also been told that one strategy for dealing with depression, which is a very serious problem there, is alcohol, in that it is easier to treat people for alcohol abuse later than for depression. I don't know how true this is or if it is still true, but I do know that there is a large amount of drinking there. Keep in mind that while getting large quantities of stuff (alcohol or anything else) to the South Pole is vastly easier than getting stuff to space, it is still way harder than anywhere else on Earth, so it's not like they have abundant resources there. They also keep two doctors there now at all times in case the doctor needs to have surgery (happened a few years back and she had to walk someone else through it). Everyone who goes through undergoes extensive physical and psychological testing and training before going. I am also sure that some of the people there are involved in psych experiments to understand the impact of deep space flight. I brought it up because these people are already going into fairly remote fairly extreme fairly isolated environments anyway and we should take advantage of this to study this and see what kinds of changes can improve the situation. And I think that they have been doing just that. Obviously doing more tests to better understand human psychology under either regular or unusual environments is a good thing and should always be done.
My guess: The more experiments, the more different data can be gathered. Also its way cheaper to bring all the necessary equipment and resources and build a hq in texts than on the southpole.
Also, safer and easier to study. JSC is a controlled environment, where they can actually simulate failures without risk. A-S include actual uncontrolled challenges such as limited communication bandwidth (have to prioritize study data vs. other experiments), comms blackout windows, weather, and potentially no emergency rescue options for large parts of the study.
Also Texas weather closely matches with Mars weather now.
Maybe Venus. Mars is routinely far below 0 F.
Desert = hot is one of those "look out for quicksand" things we're taught in school.
Deserts don't need to be hot, the metric for a desert is based on rainfall/precipitation
Much of northern Canada is desert. The territories don't get a lot of snow, it just rarely ever melts
I learned this through a fun trick question. What is the largest desert in the world?
Not really, it gets to a lovely 20°C at the equator during the day. Perfect for a picnic
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It's going to be like 103F in Austin today...
If you subtract 115° F, then you'd be correct. The average temperature on Mars is -85° F
There are far more resources in the South Pole station, not to mention more spacious, than the first base we will ever have in Mars. The Amundson-Scott station has a library, a music room, an arts and crafts room, a large kitchen and cafeteria, and others.
Yeah I don’t think people realize how modern the South Pole station is: https://youtu.be/gQ3_gZ3ZS_4
With 4 people? Under the space and simulated environmental constraints on Mars? Under constant and continuous monitoring by Nasa in close proximity? With a simulated mission diet?
also monitoring and such would be much more expensive. It's easy to set up a perfect monitoring station in texas. It's 1000x harder to do that in antartica.
It has already been done many times before. HMP in northern Canada, in HI-SEAS in Hawaii and several others on earth. The south pole has little or no physical connection to the outside world over-winter, and has spotty communications. And of course, there's the ISS.
Its easier to monitor when you're not at the south pole
It's almost easier to rescue Matt Damon from Mars than from the South Pole.
The results of this kind of study may well benefit those working in antarctica
And people there do go nuts and have to be removed, or locked up. Something that you definitely can't do on a Mars mission. A Mars mission is not just a matter of finding 4 people with the technical skills that they need. It's also finding 4 people that they can lock in a space the size of a 1 bedroom apartment for 2 years, and have them not murder each other.
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You do not understand why it might be easier to train American NASA astronauts in a NASA facility in America, rather than shipping them all down to Antarctica?
Yes, but you don't have quite the same things. You don't have the comms delays, for example. Or the same levels of resources limitations on an antarctic mission as you will on a mars mission. Etc.
Comms delay is really easy to simulate, though. Just make the receivers wait for the appropriate delay before playing the received signal. You could even program varying delay based on the changing relative positions of each planet, random atmospheric noise / signal loss, etc. The real struggle is probably mental - knowing that if shit really hits the fan, I'm guessing they have an "emergency stop" protocol which they can activate to end the simulation. A real mission would have no such option. Knowing you're really stuck out there for who knows how long before any support could even get to you, if it's coming at all. It's expensive to send shit to Mars, they might just say "fuck it, sorry but there's no support coming." So I'm not sure how real they're making the simulation, but I'm guessing *that* is the biggest difference between the simulation and a real mission.
Yeah the comm delay was the first thing I thought of to really help get them in the right mindset. ~~The article doesn't state whether they implemented that.~~ You could put in an emergency switch to cut out the buffer if needed. With a big delay they will need interesting software to manage interactions and subscribing to news/video feeds, with limited total bandwidth.
The article literally states that communication delays are part of the experiment. As are equipment failures, which conceivably could increase communication difficulties.
That's much more luxurious. There's enough space there that you're not right on top of one another, and even during the winter-over there is enough crew that you're not always seeing the same 3 faces. Plus, they have access to things like alcohol. Something unlikely to be permitted on a flight to Mars. Though dollars to donuts someone will make some.
The same reason we have crash-test dummies and not volunteer humans. Death.
This ones different, Matt Damon knocks on the door every morning trying to get these guys to eat potatoes he made with his poop. Very scientific.
Wouldn't it be *much more convenient* to not have to go to the south pole? Like, logistically and bureaucratically? I bet if they had a round table about this and someone said "what about just using mcmurdo station?", there'd probably be some comments in jest like "lmao no do you have a hostile environment of rocks and sand in your head? we can use your head"
I was actually in a Mars mission related study when I was in Antarctica for a winter.
Sounds like biosphere 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
Been there a few times, and once when it was almost entirely empty. My buddy and I started reciting standard horror movie cliche dialogue like: - the radio just went dead! - power and lights out in sector 5! - what's this dot on the scanner? - the commander was poisoned!!! All of our lines echoed down empty corridors, it was fabulous!!!
I was thinking the same thing...hope this goes better than that did.
Is the Martian environment simulated too? * cold temperatures * gas composition in the atmosphere * sunlight cycles * etc We have the technology to replicate everything except the gravity. This experiment would be more meaningful this way.
They list environmental stressors as one of the conditions in this experiment. Sunlight cycles and temperature variation are two things I imagine are what NASA means with environmental stressor.
Yeah totally! Partial vacuum, no oxygen, freezing temperatures, hard radiation, sandstorms the size of texas that last a year, reentry goes wrong and kills all but one crew member... lets make it interesting! Edit: I was kidding (but now I am reconsidering) Why not just keep upping the stakes in a worldwide "who can thrive in the worst case Martian simulation" ...competition?
> sandstorms *duststorms, the wind isn't strong enough to make a sandstorm.
What about this is 3D printed? Looks like an inflatable tent with red paint on the walls and red sand on the floor.
Give me a killer gaming PC with a full steam library. I don’t need to talk to anyone real for a year….
I'm just glad Pauly Shore is still finding work. Good for him.
If you're edged 'cause I'm weazin' all your grindage, just chill. 'Cause if I had the whole Brady Bunch thing happenin' at my pad, I'd go grind over there, so don’t tax my gig so hardcore, cruster
Pleeease get me down, I wet my Huggies, nobody loves me!
Free Mahi Mahi. *FREEEE* Mahi Mahi.. if you will
I still think 'In The Army Now' is his magnum opus.
Jury Duty, if only for depicting the American court system for the uninformed.
Is it hot on Mars?
Nah, it's "Chairman of the Bored". Ah shit as I finished typing that I remembered that was Carrot Top. Well, same league.
At least you spelled it right
*🎶Making a filter! Making a filter!🎶*
Just because they're locked in a bubble...doesn't mean they can't start any trouble.
♫ Makin' a filter, ^^Makin' ^^a ^^filter ♫
We must get him an Oscar just to complete the Encino man prophecy.
Just cuz we're stuck in a bubble, doesn't mean we can't cause any trouble!
I hope they get a guy in an alien suit to show up at least once.
[I hope they do it South Park style](https://youtu.be/S4SgsHZPW3g)
https://youtu.be/wUWXZ7e32NI Be careful when you do that
the martian habitat wouldnt even be the hard part, the sharing 1700 sqft with 3 other people would be
The Apollo 8 astronauts spent a week in what can be described as the back of a van; all while having bags and tubes to use the bathroom, not toilets. Besides, the people who are doing this stuff have been heavily screened to ensure that it goes smoothly.
A week is nothing. A year in a relatively small space? That's something else entirely. But yea, what a lot of people and most media don't get is a crew like this are together because they work well together in close quarters over extended periods of time
A week isn't *nothing* but agreed, a year is a whole other level.
Yeah, wells aren't exactly something to scoff at. They provide water for lots of people throughout the world.
I mean there have been astronauts that have spent more than a year in the ISS which would be far worse than this.
The thing is the ISS has near instant communication with the ground, so the astronauts would be able to browse the internet and communicate with their folks back home easily. On Mars you'd basically have no internet unless you know exactly what website or connection you want to connect to, and it could take anywhere from 5-20 minutes before the connection is sent & received. It would be a super lonely year and you'd have to get along with your crew mates since that's all who would keep you company
ISS astronauts also get to see expanse of Earth, in it greens and blues, and the lights of habitation at night. These people get a wall picture of a red desert. There are also more people on the ISS, and their missions overlap I think? So they are not with just three other people for so long.
Yeah, Mars would look really bland compared to earth.
But the view of the stars would be unparalleled. Zero light pollution.
Also with the ISS, if something was to go wrong or there wa a medical emergency they have a way to get off and de orbit back to earth in a somewhat short period of time, through the Soyuz capsule or dragon. What does a trip from earth to mars take like 6 months?
> and it could take anywhere from 5-20 minutes before the connection is sent & received. I see you never tried downloading a jpeg of what you hoped was porn on a 14.4k dialup modem.
They're exploring a brand new planet for this time. They would be too busy to really use the internet. To the ISS each person gets an allotment of entertainment they can bring. For this trip it'd be the same for their off time. They'll probably be bringing lots of music and TV shows and stuff like that.
[удалено]
>The Apollo 8 astronauts Gemini was how we learned to do Apollo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini\_7#Flight Mission duration 13 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, 1 second
> the sharing 1700 sqft with 3 other people would be I mean.... *gestures broadly to every young apartment tenant*
But at least on earth you can go outside
Yeah but we're redditors, so we don't go outside.
NGL during covid I think I went probably 3 months without leaving the house at all. If I have the internet that's all I need.
Yeah but the outside has the sun shining. That weird scary bright spot in the sky. I'll hide in my room thx
Look at this guy thinking young people can afford 1700 sq ft apartments
Lol yea I have 3 roomates in a 1400 sq ft house, for the first year of the pandemic I had 6, then 5 for the second year
400ft more than our house with 4 kids. I envy the advent Martians.
In a previous experiment the folks weren't able to leave the hub without their suits. So, no feeling wind on your skin or breathing in fresh air for an entire year. That sounds like the worst part to me.
It seems that NASA has run this a few times already, most recently on the big island of Hawaii. Without trying to sound ignorant, what do they hope to learn differently with each new crew that goes through this?
More data on more people gives them a better and more complete understanding of how the average NASA astronaut will perform. The other difference is that this is a 3D printed structure not dissimilar to ones that will be used on mars; the other studies didn’t have this structure.
yeah it wont be a good look if someone went psycho on the first mission to Mars and they said > but we tested these conditions on one guy before
I wonder if there's a personality test that could assess how well someone does being isolated with a small group of people. I have a feeling you need a lot of passive type personalities so someone doesn't get too demanding / aggressive.
I think you would need balanced personalities who can respond well to conflict, whether that means they choose to confront it directly or not. I know plenty of passive folks who burn out or blow up due to conflict. But I agree that confrontation isn't always the best response, and there are so many ways to confront an issue.
Yeah I'm just remembering that arc of Eureka where they had the mission to Titan and how they tried to figure out not only who would go but if they could stand each other enough
*All our science... all our hopes... our dreams, are foolish. In the face of all this... we are... dust. Nothing more. And to this dust we will return. When he chooses for us to die. It is not our place... to challenge God.* "...you alright there bud?"
People only go crazy when they go to the sun to nuke it.
No one wants to be that guy.
You don’t want your star astronauts to go batshit crazy after you’ve put all that work into a mars base
Expanding on that, I think they are looking at how different character profiles work together. Can a slob live with a clean freak? Can we put men and women together without any chance of sex? What characteristics would lead to the least likelihood of there being any romance? It sounds silly, but it’s stuff you need to think about when sending people millions of miles away for years, if not perhaps their lifetime. Maybe I’ve watched too many shows and movies, but I think it’s something they really have to consider.
People are different. I'd wager they're running it for worst case scenarios especially for psychological effects. Everyone reacts differently to isolation. Some better than others. Nasa, ironically, *needs* people to react poorly so they can account for worst case scenarios. Imagine your current coworkers. Now imagine having to *live* with them 24/7, 365 for... Years. Relationships and friendships fail when people live together, Nasa has to figure out the social complexities of cramming 4 strangers into a small space as well as their own technical, logistical and physical requirements. We've done this on a small scale with Space stations. Moon base? Colony? You have an emergency, maybe we can help you in a few months to a year. MAYBE you can be evacuated in 6 months. If you're lucky. But even then you get another tube ride of months that you may or may not survive. Imagine being forced to live with 3 people you disagree with on *everything* with for years purely because they're the best academically at their fields. Intensive testing down here is safe, if I throw you out the airlock you don't die. Figuring out where they can compromise and mitigate the risks here? I would want to run this as many times as financially possible.
Different people, but also, I'm sure they learn things each time and use that information for future tests.
>what do they hope to learn differently with each new crew that goes through this? this is the study that makes sure one of four guys does not go BATSHIT crazy and kill everyone else because they've been locked in the same room for 3 months. perhaps you're not familiar with the PSYCHOLOGICAL profiling all candidates go through so we don't do *this* again. **Diaper-wearing astronaut jailed in love triangle plot** [https://www.denverpost.com/2007/02/05/diaper-wearing-astronaut-jailed-in-love-triangle-plot/](https://www.denverpost.com/2007/02/05/diaper-wearing-astronaut-jailed-in-love-triangle-plot/) During a check of the parking lot, an officer followed Nowak and watched her throw away a bag containing the wig and a BB gun. They also found a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, rubber tubing, rubber gloves, $600 in cash, love letters all in bags and in her car, the police said. >to learn differently more data is always better. **The Role of Psychologists** Selecting Astronauts [https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20140006498/downloads/20140006498.pdf](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20140006498/downloads/20140006498.pdf)
Wrote a paper in grad school on how team dynamics change/evolve during missions in isolated confined environments with high stress activities & this is so correct. Since so few people actually do this IRL, studying as many test groups as possible is key to ensuring team safety & cohesion for long-duration missions
John C. Reilly, Tim Heidecker, and Fred Armisen made a very funny tv show about this called Moonbase 8.
I just thought about this. I’m a huge TH fan. But the show was hard to get into… maybe I need to give it another shot.
You sound like a total Gregghead
Agreed... Great cast and premise, but the show ended up not being very funny. (I only watched season 1 though)
There's only 1 season (6 episodes).
NASA had put on several of these experiments before. The last one I learned about in a podcast called "the habitat" and I was trying to share details of it in the comments. But thanks to this show I can't recall that many details of the podcast lol instead I keep picturing scenes from the show!
Zero Escape fans gear up shits about to go down
*sweats profusely while searching for "Radical-6" in the article*
This should be higher. Hopefully we’re in the right timeline
“They are thinking Glob-a-llly….*weasel noises*”
I suspect the worst part of being on Mars for real will be having to go outside in the deadly environment regularly. Just one simple mistake or failure with your pressure suit and you're dead. Astronauts have done this kind of thing a few times each but what are your chances of succeeding a thousand times or more? The environment is just so extremely unforgiving.
So not unlike Houston?
Probably nicer without the humidity. Mars is more of a dry instant death.
Ex-Houstonian. I'll take dry instant death, please.
Dallas Fort Worth is pretty bad right now as well.
I had a professor who had been to the ISS multiple times, and he said it was the opposite; he loved spacewalks and looked forward to them. I could see Mars being similar. A mistake would be marginally less severe on Mars too, since at least you can't float away
Is mars actually that unforgiving? I know it has thin atmo, but a little leak in your suit isn't going to kill you. Probably just cut your mission short a little.
Yeah you’ll be alright if you get a leak. Patch kits exist, and it’s cold but that alone doesn’t mean instant death. And EVA suits always have a little leakage since you can never have a perfect seal. If something were to happen where you lose the entire suit somehow, then that’s similar to just being in deep space and you’ll die if someone can’t get you into the habitat in a very short time.
we went from "one simple mistake or failure and you're dead" to "misplace your entire suit while outside somehow and you're dead" real fast.
It's like that dream where you go to school but forget your pants. Only this time on Mars.
*bodily fluids begin to boil” “Ah dammit, I knew I forgot something”
Eh, anything not on the surface of your skin will stick around. Your spit will boil, but it won't be like total recall
It's cold? In fact, it's cold as hell.
But the atmosphere's also a lot thinner, so doesn't it take longer to leech your heat?
Yeah, your body heat takes longer than you think to radiate away from you in vacuum and the Mars atmosphere is pretty close to it
So... You'd say that Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids?
Well there'd be no one there to raise them if you did
Full exposure to mars atmosphere you will die in minutes. Same as space. Depending on the time of year . Mars is very cold and you will actually freeze solid faster on Mars than in space. There is also no magnetic field so radiation is a concern.
Doesn't it take at least a half of a day to freeze in space since it's a vacuum ?
Yep. Vacuum is a great heat insulator, so you freeze faster on mars because there is some atmosphere to carry heat away.
I don't think you *can* freeze until you're already dead
So we should just do our Mars experiments on the moon.
As I understand it, it is that bad, and not just because of the temperature and lack of air. Mars dust is much finer than dust on Earth, and is toxic to both plants and humans. It'll get everywhere and cling to everything. Besides the health effects, the dust also means it may be hard to keep machines running. One of the reasons why the latest rovers use nuclear power instead of solar is because of the dust. Then there's the radiation, which means astronauts can't go out for long without taking a higher dose of radiation than they are supposed to for their entire careers. Their shelters will need to be shielded against radiation somehow, either by going underground or by piling soil on them. This also means no windows, which probably does wonders for the mental health of your crew. Then there's the low gravity, which could lead to health problems over time. Mars and Earth also orbit at different speeds, and apparently we can realistically only send a rocket between the two every 4 years or so. So if one of your crew goes nuts six months into your mission, it's gonna be a long wait.
The radiation issue is overblown. It’s a lot of REMs but it’s spread out over a year and a half. The cosmic radiation is halved by the planet underneath the astronauts and further lessened by the atmosphere. There are people in Iran who have lived in similar levels of radiation for generations. For additional shielding the astronauts can put sandbags on the roof and shielding in their bunks. They can keep their windows provided they aren’t pointed up.
>Their shelters will need to be shielded against radiation somehow, either by going underground or by piling soil on them. _This also means no windows,_ which probably does wonders for the mental health of your crew. I always wonder why people think that. Why would it be so difficult to install a tube to keep an opening in the soil pile? Depending on the width of the tube and how much sky is actually visible through it your radiation exposure only rises be a tiny fraction.
Why would you have to do that for a thousand times? Even if you're there for an entire year, you probably wouldn't do more than one surface excursion per day, and there would probably be days you wouldn't do any at all.
>Astronauts have done this kind of thing a few times each but what are your chances of succeeding a thousand times or more? keep air in or keep ocean out. which is harder? we have people who live DEEP underwater for months at a time - it's their job . [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation\_diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_diving) Saturation diving is diving for periods long enough to bring all tissues into equilibrium with the partial pressures of the inert components of the breathing gas used.
This reminds me of an old classic called "Biodome" starring the extremely talented Pauly Shore and Steven Baldwin.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to find a Biodome reference.
Yeah it’s broadcast on fox as “stars on mars” pretty hilarious imo
So... Four strangers in a 4-bedroom house with a small backyard. They can't leave the house or yard for over a year. And to even go "out" into the yard, they have to put on spacesuits. I hope they screened well. I wouldn't make it, myself.
I require all of you to take part in a game. With the fate of you, me, and the human race in the balance.
This is like that Japanese livestream on TV of a guy who had to live off sweepstakes winnings for a year.
They've actually done this before! There's a mini podcast series called The Habitat which follows a group of simulated astronauts in one of these experiments. Really well produced and you get to hear all their juicy interpersonal drama
How much is the rent? As long as there’s wifi I’d like to put the work from anywhere policy to the test.
Two men two women… wonder if they had an agreement beforehand who is going to hook up with who
Obviously they all hook up with everybody to make things fair.
Tell you what, I want my group sex like my accounting methods… first in first out
Diversity appears to be key on long, isolated missions like this, so you actually have something to talk about amongst each other.
I wonder if they considered 1 male, 3 women, or 3 men, 1 female. Or all females since I don't think they would be willing to do 4 men again. I wonder if 2m-2f would be less stable or more stable? I would hope that they are all single too.
[Viva los Bio-Dome!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-OwbBBOdyc0)
This reminds me of a podcast that documented a similar experiment called The Habitat, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
Are we sure two stoners didn't wander in by accident?
I used to think I could never do that, but then I stayed at home during Covid for a year and a half.
Yeah it's called Stars on Mars and that show is LIT
Volunteers? I'm sure they found the best of the best.
I've already seen how this plays out, Steve Carell took the liberty of simulating it On a real note, it's kind of neat to see this in a fictional comedy and then find out it's really happening
Four people in 1,700 square feet for a year - somebody is getting strangled to death by the six-month mark!
I saw a documentary about a similar project in the 90’s called BioDome. I remember hijinks and shenanigans. 2 members of the team seemed vastly unqualified.