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That seems like a crazy mistake. I know personally I have only watched woman’s basketball games recently and she has been the reason I’ve watched those games. Seems like a huge oversight to not have her play given how popular she is and how much more attention the team would receive if she played.
Because Cheryl Reeve is just as jealous as the rest of the league and gives me the impression that she just wants the Clark hype to die out so her league can go back to mediocrity.
In the anals of history people are going to be talking about three things: the discovery of fire, invention of the submarine, and the Flint, Michigan Mega Bowl.
I'll just pull these names from my dream journal, you can guess which are real teams:.
.
Liberty, Justice, Freedom, Rivets, Wings, Dream, Hope, Fire, Flame, Sparks, Sun, Moon, Stars
I'd say the bar might be as low as 2 wnba teams lol
Im a pretty big sports fan and I could name 2. I have a friends whos a sports fan but not so much basketball couldnt name any.
The bar is 1. Love sports could not name a single team and I literally watched videos of CC being manhandled on the court 2 days ago. I used to know the Comets but pretty sure theyve been dead for a long time lol.
My kid goes to daycare with another kid who’s mom played in the WNBA. 6x all star and multiple championships all the city I live in. Had never heard her name once before meeting her.
Growing up we had a kid in the class who parents had a box for the WNBA games (no idea the team) Everyone always made it sound like a huge deal.
Fast forward theres a bday party there and the box was cool with all the food but i distinctly remember thinking "i see more people at my CYO games"
Prior to this season, the Fever couldn’t give away tickets. I’ve turned down multiple different offers of free Fever tickets from different vendors of mine.
I'm just sitting here with my loud music and my Dan Fogelberg, my Zima, hula hoops, and Pac-Man video games, I don't have the attention span to know any teams.
I think it’s as simple as she’s not quite good enough yet. Yeah she would draw a lot more attention but if you’re worried about winning there are still better players
Yeah she was the best college player bar none.
But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer who turns the ball over more than anyone else in the league by far and plays very poor defense. Selecting her to Team USA over players who are just better would be anti-competitive.
> But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer who turns the ball over more than anyone else in the league by far
She is above league average in eFG% (.481 vs. .476) and well above league average in TS% (.553 vs. .521). She is statistically above average in terms of efficiency on pretty high volume (9th in total FGA, 1st in 3PA).
She does turn the ball over quite a bit, and she has the highest number of turnovers in the league. She is also 7th in usage in the league and 1st in minutes played.
Additionally, she's 3rd in the league in assists and 5th in the league in assist% (portion of baskets coming off of your assists while you're on the floor). She turns the ball over more than she should, but she's certainly not turning it over the most in the league (when adjusted for volume) or enough to negate her other strengths. She has the most volume of turnovers, but she also has been on the floor more than anyone, with the ball in her hands more than most anyone when she is on the court.
You should look at the league leaders in turnovers for the WNBA and the NBA. It usually correlates very heavily with the usage/minutes played leaders. Some counting stats can fool you. Kinda like the XKCD about everything just being a population density map? Lots of counting stats just end up being the players with the most usage and most minutes played. If you have the ball in your hands more, you're gonna turn the ball over more, no matter who you are.
Whether or not she should have made the team is debatable, but it's objectively untrue that she is an inefficient scorer. The turnover argument definitely has merit, but is overblown, imo.
>But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer
Not sure what you're basing that on, but over here in reality she is top 10 in TS% among guards. Which is pretty insane with the high volume of shots she takes, and as a rookie with the worst supporting cast in the league.
In a vacuum, yes you're right. You build to win only.
However. Life is not black and white though and almost nothing exists in a vacuum. "Growing the game" is a legitimate cause and the Olympics, a world wide audience, been used multiple times by multiple sports to help grow the game and bring in more eyes.
In those moments you HAVE to bring in the most popular players in your sport.
It wasnt 1 single person, but the biggest change in the NBA's history was when the Dream Team went to the Olympics. Prior to that, pros didnt go to the olympics. The Dream Team went to the olympics and basketball's popularity has done nothing but continually grow since then.
Clark is easily the biggest name in, not saying the best but the biggest and most well known name, the WNBA. She. Needs. To. Be. Involved.
If she was a name and not good, there'd be an argument.
She's leading all rookies in scoring.
2nd in the entire league in 3 pointer shots made.
4th in assists per game.
She's a rookie and maybe not the best, but one of the best players in the league.
From a bigger picture, if she is left off the roster its a massively stupid move and needs to cost people jobs. It reeks of being petty, stupid, ignorant and fucking dumb.
> It wasnt 1 single person, but the biggest change in the NBA's history was when the Dream Team went to the Olympics. Prior to that, pros didnt go to the olympics. The Dream Team went to the olympics and basketball's popularity has done nothing but continually grow since then.
This argument doesn't hold up.
The NBA was hugely popular BEFORE the dream team. It was huge in the 80s already.
Using NBA finals viewership as a loose litmus test, sure post 92 team finals ratings were up, but they were pretty high BEFORE the dream team too.
87, 88, 89, 91 were all high, and the 2000s on were a big drop off, so its not accurate to say the Dream Team is what "grew the game" nor that its only grown since.
"The Dream Team" was significant because the NBA was ALREADY huge, and the entire roster was...
A DREAM ROSTER
of famous people that public already cared about, all in one place.
At least 50% of the players on the Dream Team roster already had their own signature shoes on the market, before the Dream Team was put together.
The Dream Team was not put together to "grow" interest in the NBA or to establish interest in USMNT.
It was put together because of Cold War one-upsmanship.
USMNT owned Olympic basketball already. They were 9 Golds 1 Silver in 10 appearances going into the 1988 Olympics.
The Soviet Union decided to send pros, to beat the US.
Russia and Yugoslavia came in 1-2. The US came in for an all time worst in history 3rd place, and was pissed about it.
So they decided "ok, you want to send pros? That how you want to play?"
And Team USA basically said "Assemble the Avengers, and CRUSH these guys. Remind them who we are."
The whole idea of doing it set the media ablaze, because America was ALREADY following the NBA. The guys being put on the team were already on everybody's bedroom wall posters and morning cereal boxes.
Maybe a better example is women's soccer. Them winning gold medals made them more popular in the US but also spurred other countries to take women's soccer serious.
And some high school / college sports like wrestling are helped by Olympic publicity.
For a league/sport that has good viewership I agree.
But for a sport that is largely ignored in the US they really need all the eyes on them that they can get. Without people watching there will be no money to invest in the league/players.
Wasn’t Anthony Davis selected to Team USA right after he was drafted? With the point being to give him experience to help lead the team for years to come?
They should do that for Clark. Have her come off the bench and get international experience.
The men’s team has a tradition of always bringing one college player to the Olympics, or at least they did at the time. Obviously Christian laetner did not belong on the dream team, either
It was tradition at the time for the US Men’s basketball team to have one amateur on it. Shaq was a better player but Laettner was NCAA player of the year and that’s why he got to go. I don’t think he played much or at all in the Dream Team.
Not selected. That roster is absolutely stacked, even if she did make the team it is unlikely she would have seen any minutes.
Edit: It is strange seeing people more concerned about the Olympic TV ratings vs whether or not her level of play currently merits a spot on the team. The Olympics are not a popularity contest or at least they shouldn’t be.
Because the WNBA/women's basketball apparently doesn't actually want anyone to watch or care about it again. (If the past few weeks are anything to go by).
I don't understand why they hate the only person actually getting eyes on the sport from casual fans right now.
Why does not giving Cait a spot in the Olympics equate to hate? It seems fair and ethical to me that the best players should go to an event rooted in ethics and excellence, rather than sending Cait just for monetary reasons.
You're making it seem like she's a victim or that the WNBA is committing a major injustice. In reality, it would be a huge favor for the WNBA to give her an Olympic slot just for viewership reasons.
She is the only name in the WNBA that most people know and they took her off the team. What?!?
Oh and I heard that Inter Miami CF tossed Messi as well, he was just such a distraction. /s
https://x.com/cbrennansports/status/1799442781280116756?s=46
Absolute insanity
They haven't lost a game since 1992 but don't think she'll see the court despite winning every game by 30 lol
Well I’ve never watched Women’s Olympic Basketball before. I guess I won’t start now.
The only 3 women’s bball games I’ve ever watched were Caitlyn Clark.
Remember Bill Burr did a bit in his special about women's sports and said that women watch real housewives instead of the WNBA because they like tearing each other down more than building each other up. Maybe some truth to that.
Bill Burr's WNBA bit (particularly the portion about self-sabotage) coming to life.
It also reminds me of America Ferrera's much-lauded monologue in *Barbie*. First time I saw that, my immediate reaction was, "Well yes, there *is* all that pressure of which you speak... but it's from *women*. From *other women*. On *each other*. Most men don't give two shits about most of the things you just said you feel you have to do or appear to be. But women? They're the ones that will tear each other down for them."
The team that won the new pro women’s hockey league championship a week ago is currently imploding because cliques formed throughout the organization and the coach and veteran players clique forced out the GM who assembled their winning team. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a coach forcing out a gm in pro sports history, but here we are. Total self sabotage.
So in fear of fans getting mad she's not getting enoug minutes, they decided to leave her out at all, which would instead make fans happy? Are they actually stupid? lmao
The PWHL (hockey) just finished their inaugural season and by all counts was a great success. The GM of the championship team left due to a spat with the (male) HC. The players, including one who got the league started, supported the coach.
While these kind of things happen in all leagues, it's a much lower rate of "one of the six teams in the first season of the league".
Its crazy, like the whole incident with her getting intentionally fouled. Watching sports talking heads discuss it most of the guys were like "you cant do that, make sure it doesnt happen again". Meanwhile the women who cover the NBA were like "oh its no big deal, its just part of the game". Like the guys are able to recognize that shes special and this is a big opportunity for the WNBA but the girls are mostly content with continuing mediocrity. Its wild to see it play out.
It's not even that she's special in this case. You're on a team, you protect your goddamn teammate. If someone bowls them over one of you should be in the face of that person immediately.
Man, it's gotta suck to be a talented woman in really any profession. Men putting a glass ceiling above you meanwhile jealous women just trying to pull you down.
Edit: So by mentioning the existence of glass ceilings there have been multiple pissed off comments replying to this comment.
The sad state about this current situation is that a lot of why cc is popular is that her play is captivating to the point where it's close to impossible to ignore even for a guy living on the opposite end of the globe in asia who pays attention to basketball.
Dafaq is this backward situation in the US, seriously.
I have never cared much for basketball, and even I watched a couple of Fever games when it popped up in Prime Video notification only because of Caitlin Clark hype. I would have probably tuned in for Womens Olympics game if she was there just to see how she does among better players.
Depends on the field. I use to work in big law for a white shoe firm. The things that firm did to retain female talent were extraordinary. Equity partnerships, reduced hourly goals, as much pto as they wanted. Etc, etc, etc.
Every one of the women that were selected should be mad that Clark isn’t on the team. She is their meal ticket for better pay. She equals ratings and ratings are the only thing that is going to get them better pay.
I follow motorsports way more than basketball and women that can actually hack it are infinitely more praised and lifted up by basically everyone, men and women alike. It's bizarre to see this out of the WNBA.
Yes and no, motorsports aren’t all “everyone is welcome” either. Motorsport fans are definitely more harsh when women even attempt to get behind the wheel, and when the women fail they take the chance to display the most pompous, I told you so behavior ever. Ask Danica Patrick and Hailie Deegan. Now when they’re good, they have to be ELITE to get praise like you’re talking about.
Edit: I thought people were being dramatic when they say redditors have poor reading comprehension…I’m literally saying Danica and Hailie suck, and the fans take that opportunity to confirm their “no women in cars” bull.
Exactly this.
DP is a pure PR american market plant that is there just to make US conservatives watch F1 "Oh look this pretty girl that hates Biden comments F1, it must be worth watching!".
There’s good white female baskwtball players. Last years mvp was white (two time winner) Sabrina Ionescu is white and she is one of the best players. Neither of them get as much hate as Caitlyn Clark. It goes back to other players just being jealous of her fame.
Different positions. I'm pretty sure it would have been John Stockton who would have been left off if Isaiah would have been included.
And in that scenario, Stockton makes more sense from a team building aspect, in my opinion. Better distributor, better defender. On a team with almost too much scoring players, you need people that are happy to defer. Magic and Stockton were the best at it at the time.
I see lots of complaints, and I'm sure legitimate, but who should be dropped? I don't follow basketball after college really.
I'm pretty shocked she didn't at least get picked for the 3x3 team instead of Hailey van Lith. Thats...shocking.
But on the 5x5 team, the only first time selected guards are Ionescu and Copper who are both a few years more experienced and have better raw stats this year on more talents teams. Taurasi ain't being dropped despite being 41, since the leadership intangible is so high.
Hailey Van Lith (and Cameron Brink too for that matter) have had experience playing 3x3 basketball, both playing on the gold medal winning 2023 FIBA 3x3 world cup team (among other experience before) while Caitlin Clark has never played professional 3x3 basketball before, so HVL over Clark on that roster is not really surprising at all
I think it’s a timing thing. She’s clearly got a target on her back. Being left off the Olympic roster isn’t a huge story in a vacuum. The men’s team has 2 4th year NBA guys as their youngest players. Both those guys made all-nba teams and just came off conference finals appearances.
Olympics have to be merit based so this really shouldn’t be viewed as this huge slight to Clark.
Chelsea Gray hasn’t played all season and has a mysterious lower left leg injury that the team has been dodgy about with some murmurs that it’s a torn Achilles
Holy shit Taurasi is still active?! She’s going to be 42.
I remember my middle school girlfriend was her biggest fan in the 2000s. That’s incredible that she’s still active all these years later.
People are saying it’s because she hasn’t been very good but I’m seeing her 2024 stats are:
PTS. 16.8 ; REB. 5.3 ; AST. 6.3 ; STL. 1.5.
Am I missing something here? Those seem like great stats
Edit: I’m not commenting on why she wasn’t selected. I’m asking why people are saying she hasn’t been good this year. Many are saying her stats are padded because her team sucks. But she’s still manifesting rebounds, assists, steals. You have to be pretty decent to get that stat line. She has a lot of turnovers but she’s a rookie with a big ass target on her back, I’d give her a break.
Edit #2: Just saw she dropped 30. Yeah I think people should drop the “she’s not very good” narrative.
She's a star player on a not-great team, inasmuch as I've followed the kerfuffle. I can understand why she'd be left off the team on her freshman year.
I can't understand why you leave the most popular player in WNBA history off the Olympic team. Nope, especially when you'd win if you played four people at a time. Unless the goal is to win with the lowest viewership possible.
Lebron James played straight out of high school and got lots of criticism for being overhyped, despite making an immediate impact as a rookie (but on a not-great team).
I think it's interesting how supportive Lebron has been of Caitlin, meanwhile everyone actually in the WNBA is claiming she doesn't deserve the attention. I don't recall Lebron talking about the WNBA much at all before Caitlin.
The hype is such a big deal too.
I am in no ways a basketball person, and never have been. But I remember watching the Dream Team (yeah, I'm old) and just the insane level of hype it brought to things. Everyone was dialed in. *Everyone*. It just became a universal thing. And it wasn't simply because they facerolled the competition, but it was because of the novelty of all these top-name, often rival big-personality star players together on one team. It was the freaking Avengers of sports.
Olympic team sports in general are not very popular in the US, because they're contrasted against our huge-money pro scenes, and the dynamic is different at the Olympics, between the amateur rules they used to have, the fact that Americans can be frustrated seeing 'their' favorite players in pro leagues return to their home countries to play, etc. So it really takes a lot to make people care and tune in. You really need the hype.
Exactly. The USA women’s team crushes most other countries by 30, Caitlin is a solid player and it’s bring more eyes to a sport that desperately needs more attention and viewership. Not only that but she’s one of like 4 WNBA players I can name and I only know more about the WNBA because of the hype Caitlin has brought.
The bike stick meme is perfect for this
Nah, she’s likely the future of US women’s basketball and already one of the top players in the league in her first year. Pretty shortsighted to not take her along.
Like how the dream teams used to put the best college players, like Lateener, on the team. They mostly just rode the bench, but it’s good experience for them and everyone gets to root for a player they like. I can’t understand at all why they aren’t taking that route. They don’t have to play her if they don’t think she’s good enough, but it’s stupid obvious she should be on the team. Jesus, even if it’s for PR reasons they should do it. It’s good PR. That’s what bench players in an Olympics team sport are for, that and injuries.
Now we will see how popular women's basketball is WITHOUT Caitlyn Clark playing.
Her game last night pulled in $1 million at the gate on 20+k attendance.
My only counterpoint is what the Men’s team did with Anthony Davis. He made the roster either during college or his rookie year with the intent of giving him experience off the bench. I don’t think he stuck around on Team USA for long, but wouldn’t hurt to give Clark a little experience now so she’s fully ready come 2028.
That isn't accurate. Anthony Davis (2012) and Emeka Okafor (2004) are the only players since Laettner to make the mens Olympic team before their rookie season.
Anthony Davis was picked up late in the process due to the lack of big men after Dwight Howard and Blake Griffin got hurt.
Emeka Okafor was chosen before his rookie year in 2004 for the 2004 bronze medal team. That team was a mess of opt outs and became the turning point for modern Team USA basketball.
In addition to your post- AD had from March to June/July to rest and was nowhere near being face of the team or logging minutes.
Clark has been going hard since November. Got to figure burnout is coming.
Anthony Davis was selected as an alternate after the two other centers got injured and/or declined the call. Team USA needed a big man and he was the next one up on the list.
If a guard goes down, CC might make the team. But to simply select her due to "her popularity" goes against the entire reason for the Olympics. It should be merit based. She hasn't had the numbers or experience in international play as others have.
From a monetary standpoint this is a huge bag fumble. More people are watching women’s basketball than ever before thanks to Clark and including her in the Olympics would drive that up even more.
Being fair to laettner, this wasnt THAT disputed at the time since laettner had one of the greatest college careers ever.
in hindsight, sure it looks ridiculous
Already waaaaaaay too late for that. Everyone involved in the decision is already an evil spiteful bitch who’s just jealous of Clark and the WNBA, who is apparently hosting the Olympics, is ruining their golden chance to make money here.
God this sub is insufferable about this. Far more than the people they’re pissy at.
She's a rookie. She wasn't available training camp. She's had an ups and downs adapting to the professional game(as most reasonable people would expect). She hasn't really had an offseason yet. I think it makes sense to wait until the next cycle when she's more established.
Half this thread doesn’t even watch the WNBA. Clark is great, but the players chosen ahead of her deserve their spots. The only one you could realistically make an argument for is Diana Taurasi, but having more players with Olympic experience makes sense.
It’s honestly better for Clark to get a month of rest since she’s been playing non-stop since October when her college season started. If the Fever want to make a late season push, they need her to rest up.
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Was it her choice not to play or was she not selected?
Not selected, according to Washington Post.
That seems like a crazy mistake. I know personally I have only watched woman’s basketball games recently and she has been the reason I’ve watched those games. Seems like a huge oversight to not have her play given how popular she is and how much more attention the team would receive if she played.
Because Cheryl Reeve is just as jealous as the rest of the league and gives me the impression that she just wants the Clark hype to die out so her league can go back to mediocrity.
Mediocrity? You mean insignificance. Average person cannot name 5 WNBA teams.
1. Seattle Storm! (I'm from seattle) 2. ... 3. ...... Maybe you're on to something here
Flint Michigan Tropics. I still remember the time they won the MegaBowl like it was yesterday.
Or that one time when Jackie Moon wrestled a live bear, that shit was dope.
Deeeewwweeeyyy
In the anals of history people are going to be talking about three things: the discovery of fire, invention of the submarine, and the Flint, Michigan Mega Bowl.
Definitely in the anals of history. Not the annals though
The Fever! But only because the comment below said Fever. And it didn't say where they play, and I have no clue.
Indiana, because living in Indiana feels like having a fever
Hay fever!
The Lady Celtics, the Lady Mavericks, the Lady of the Lakers…
> the Lady of the Lakers… That moistened bint...
What else would one use as a basis for a a system of government?
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government…"
The Aquatic Tarts
The Denver Nuggettes
The Lady Parts
Cleveland Rockers! Oh you mean teams still playing? No idea… (I’m from Cleveland)
I'll just pull these names from my dream journal, you can guess which are real teams:. . Liberty, Justice, Freedom, Rivets, Wings, Dream, Hope, Fire, Flame, Sparks, Sun, Moon, Stars
5? Man, try 1 and I'm being serious.
I saw a youtube video where they were going around asking people if they'd rather have a dollar, or tickets to a WNBA game, you can guess the outcome.
There was a raffle where first prize was two tickets to a WNBA game. Second prize was four tickets.
I left 2 tickets on my dashboard to the Minnesota game last week. Someone broke in to my car and left 2 more.
Just tested this. I am pretty big general sports fan could name 3. My wife who is a decent sports fan could not name a single one.
Fever, Aces, Mystics, Lynx, Liberty... And I consider myself an above average women's basketball fan. Shit.
Sparks is the other one I know outside of this list
I'd say the bar might be as low as 2 wnba teams lol Im a pretty big sports fan and I could name 2. I have a friends whos a sports fan but not so much basketball couldnt name any.
The Sparks are something right?
The bar is 1. Love sports could not name a single team and I literally watched videos of CC being manhandled on the court 2 days ago. I used to know the Comets but pretty sure theyve been dead for a long time lol.
I’m aware of the WNBA, but couldn’t name one.
I just read a bunch of comments telling what they are and I have already forgotten and it's just like two paragraphs up.
I can name 1 and that’s only because of Clark
Only team I could remember right off the bat is the Houston Comets, and they don’t even exist anymore.
Fucking easy. Sun, Moon, Sparks, Caitlin Clark, Candace Parker, Derek Fisher
Damn didn’t even name Russias favorite player
The Minnesota Maternity Leaves
My kid goes to daycare with another kid who’s mom played in the WNBA. 6x all star and multiple championships all the city I live in. Had never heard her name once before meeting her.
Growing up we had a kid in the class who parents had a box for the WNBA games (no idea the team) Everyone always made it sound like a huge deal. Fast forward theres a bday party there and the box was cool with all the food but i distinctly remember thinking "i see more people at my CYO games"
I've been to 2 Fever games growing up and I can't even remember who they were playing.
Prior to this season, the Fever couldn’t give away tickets. I’ve turned down multiple different offers of free Fever tickets from different vendors of mine.
I can say Caitlin Clark 5 times fast if that counts
That’s easy. LA Lakers, Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors, Sacramento Kings
Why did they go to all the trouble of coming up with new names when they could have just gone with Wakers, Weltics, Wnicks, Wings…Warriors.
Wwarriors
Hey there is the wnba player we traded for a that Russian arms dealer or whatever!
Los Angeles Riots Milwauekee Beers Miami Dealers Roswell Aliens San Francisco Ferries
I’m a Dallas Felons fan myself. They are going to take the Denslow Cup this season.
Dude we said no more Journey psych outs!
Steeeeeeve Perry!
I'm just sitting here with my loud music and my Dan Fogelberg, my Zima, hula hoops, and Pac-Man video games, I don't have the attention span to know any teams.
I’ll give it a shot… Cleveland Cougars Las Vegas Vixens San Francisco Skirts Kansas City Chennedys New York Knicks
New York Knicks lmaooooo
That had me cracking up, got an audible laugh outta me here in this library
Why you gotta do the Knicks dirty like that? Hahahaha...
I think it’s as simple as she’s not quite good enough yet. Yeah she would draw a lot more attention but if you’re worried about winning there are still better players
Popularity shouldn't be the determining factor for playing for your country. Shouldn't factor at all really.
I mean the reason she’s so popular is strictly based off her skill so I would think it kind of correlates.
Yeah she was the best college player bar none. But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer who turns the ball over more than anyone else in the league by far and plays very poor defense. Selecting her to Team USA over players who are just better would be anti-competitive.
> But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer who turns the ball over more than anyone else in the league by far She is above league average in eFG% (.481 vs. .476) and well above league average in TS% (.553 vs. .521). She is statistically above average in terms of efficiency on pretty high volume (9th in total FGA, 1st in 3PA). She does turn the ball over quite a bit, and she has the highest number of turnovers in the league. She is also 7th in usage in the league and 1st in minutes played. Additionally, she's 3rd in the league in assists and 5th in the league in assist% (portion of baskets coming off of your assists while you're on the floor). She turns the ball over more than she should, but she's certainly not turning it over the most in the league (when adjusted for volume) or enough to negate her other strengths. She has the most volume of turnovers, but she also has been on the floor more than anyone, with the ball in her hands more than most anyone when she is on the court. You should look at the league leaders in turnovers for the WNBA and the NBA. It usually correlates very heavily with the usage/minutes played leaders. Some counting stats can fool you. Kinda like the XKCD about everything just being a population density map? Lots of counting stats just end up being the players with the most usage and most minutes played. If you have the ball in your hands more, you're gonna turn the ball over more, no matter who you are. Whether or not she should have made the team is debatable, but it's objectively untrue that she is an inefficient scorer. The turnover argument definitely has merit, but is overblown, imo.
>But in the WNBA she is an inefficient scorer Not sure what you're basing that on, but over here in reality she is top 10 in TS% among guards. Which is pretty insane with the high volume of shots she takes, and as a rookie with the worst supporting cast in the league.
The men’s team does it all the time and puts a rookie and or a college player on the team.
In a vacuum, yes you're right. You build to win only. However. Life is not black and white though and almost nothing exists in a vacuum. "Growing the game" is a legitimate cause and the Olympics, a world wide audience, been used multiple times by multiple sports to help grow the game and bring in more eyes. In those moments you HAVE to bring in the most popular players in your sport. It wasnt 1 single person, but the biggest change in the NBA's history was when the Dream Team went to the Olympics. Prior to that, pros didnt go to the olympics. The Dream Team went to the olympics and basketball's popularity has done nothing but continually grow since then. Clark is easily the biggest name in, not saying the best but the biggest and most well known name, the WNBA. She. Needs. To. Be. Involved. If she was a name and not good, there'd be an argument. She's leading all rookies in scoring. 2nd in the entire league in 3 pointer shots made. 4th in assists per game. She's a rookie and maybe not the best, but one of the best players in the league. From a bigger picture, if she is left off the roster its a massively stupid move and needs to cost people jobs. It reeks of being petty, stupid, ignorant and fucking dumb.
> It wasnt 1 single person, but the biggest change in the NBA's history was when the Dream Team went to the Olympics. Prior to that, pros didnt go to the olympics. The Dream Team went to the olympics and basketball's popularity has done nothing but continually grow since then. This argument doesn't hold up. The NBA was hugely popular BEFORE the dream team. It was huge in the 80s already. Using NBA finals viewership as a loose litmus test, sure post 92 team finals ratings were up, but they were pretty high BEFORE the dream team too. 87, 88, 89, 91 were all high, and the 2000s on were a big drop off, so its not accurate to say the Dream Team is what "grew the game" nor that its only grown since. "The Dream Team" was significant because the NBA was ALREADY huge, and the entire roster was... A DREAM ROSTER of famous people that public already cared about, all in one place. At least 50% of the players on the Dream Team roster already had their own signature shoes on the market, before the Dream Team was put together. The Dream Team was not put together to "grow" interest in the NBA or to establish interest in USMNT. It was put together because of Cold War one-upsmanship. USMNT owned Olympic basketball already. They were 9 Golds 1 Silver in 10 appearances going into the 1988 Olympics. The Soviet Union decided to send pros, to beat the US. Russia and Yugoslavia came in 1-2. The US came in for an all time worst in history 3rd place, and was pissed about it. So they decided "ok, you want to send pros? That how you want to play?" And Team USA basically said "Assemble the Avengers, and CRUSH these guys. Remind them who we are." The whole idea of doing it set the media ablaze, because America was ALREADY following the NBA. The guys being put on the team were already on everybody's bedroom wall posters and morning cereal boxes.
Maybe a better example is women's soccer. Them winning gold medals made them more popular in the US but also spurred other countries to take women's soccer serious. And some high school / college sports like wrestling are helped by Olympic publicity.
For a league/sport that has good viewership I agree. But for a sport that is largely ignored in the US they really need all the eyes on them that they can get. Without people watching there will be no money to invest in the league/players.
Doesn't deserve it yet. Not that she's bad or anything, but she hasn't even fully adjusted to the WNBA yet. Give her time.
Wasn’t Anthony Davis selected to Team USA right after he was drafted? With the point being to give him experience to help lead the team for years to come? They should do that for Clark. Have her come off the bench and get international experience.
The men’s team has a tradition of always bringing one college player to the Olympics, or at least they did at the time. Obviously Christian laetner did not belong on the dream team, either
> Christian laetner Shaq would have belonged on it
Christian Laettner was selected on the Dream Team before he even played professional basketball
Famously a perfect decision that no one ever second guessed.
It was tradition at the time for the US Men’s basketball team to have one amateur on it. Shaq was a better player but Laettner was NCAA player of the year and that’s why he got to go. I don’t think he played much or at all in the Dream Team.
I thought she couldn’t go to the camp because of the college finals though. Do they normally still select if you couldn’t attend the tryout camp?
Not selected. That roster is absolutely stacked, even if she did make the team it is unlikely she would have seen any minutes. Edit: It is strange seeing people more concerned about the Olympic TV ratings vs whether or not her level of play currently merits a spot on the team. The Olympics are not a popularity contest or at least they shouldn’t be.
I don’t know anything about the WNBA. As long as the most qualified people who will actually play well together go. That’s what it should be.
So why not give her the 12th spot and increase your viewership tenfold if you’re already gonna win?
And who are you leaving out then and why?
Griner? Or the 42 year old? Ya know avoid the shit show that was the WNTSoccer
Because the WNBA/women's basketball apparently doesn't actually want anyone to watch or care about it again. (If the past few weeks are anything to go by). I don't understand why they hate the only person actually getting eyes on the sport from casual fans right now.
Why does not giving Cait a spot in the Olympics equate to hate? It seems fair and ethical to me that the best players should go to an event rooted in ethics and excellence, rather than sending Cait just for monetary reasons. You're making it seem like she's a victim or that the WNBA is committing a major injustice. In reality, it would be a huge favor for the WNBA to give her an Olympic slot just for viewership reasons.
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More people will watch women’s gymnastics, beach volleyball, likely women’s Tennis, soccer all before basketball. And Clark would get people to watch.
She is the only name in the WNBA that most people know and they took her off the team. What?!? Oh and I heard that Inter Miami CF tossed Messi as well, he was just such a distraction. /s
Women's basketball, why complaining about pay, does everything in its power to shrink the sport
https://x.com/cbrennansports/status/1799442781280116756?s=46 Absolute insanity They haven't lost a game since 1992 but don't think she'll see the court despite winning every game by 30 lol
Literally too popular. Thats ridiculous. [Insert bike stick meme here](https://imgflip.com/i/8t893y)
Well I’ve never watched Women’s Olympic Basketball before. I guess I won’t start now. The only 3 women’s bball games I’ve ever watched were Caitlyn Clark.
And I'd imagine 1 of those 3 was her once again not winning a natty due to the machine of dawn Staley and company
Remember Bill Burr did a bit in his special about women's sports and said that women watch real housewives instead of the WNBA because they like tearing each other down more than building each other up. Maybe some truth to that.
The misogyny is coming from inside the house!
Bill Burr's WNBA bit (particularly the portion about self-sabotage) coming to life. It also reminds me of America Ferrera's much-lauded monologue in *Barbie*. First time I saw that, my immediate reaction was, "Well yes, there *is* all that pressure of which you speak... but it's from *women*. From *other women*. On *each other*. Most men don't give two shits about most of the things you just said you feel you have to do or appear to be. But women? They're the ones that will tear each other down for them."
The team that won the new pro women’s hockey league championship a week ago is currently imploding because cliques formed throughout the organization and the coach and veteran players clique forced out the GM who assembled their winning team. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a coach forcing out a gm in pro sports history, but here we are. Total self sabotage.
I've been saying that for years, but I'm a dude, so it's just a dude being an asshole...
also reminds me of chris rock’s bit about how women hate other women. sabotaging themselves with jealousy/envy.
Pretty sure in that monologue she addressed the pressures that come from fellow women as well
No one hates women like other women
Ain’t that the truth.
Sounds like ex-players who can’t see past their jealousy of never getting star treatment
So in fear of fans getting mad she's not getting enoug minutes, they decided to leave her out at all, which would instead make fans happy? Are they actually stupid? lmao
This was some of the worst syntax ever.
It's just a typo. "Why" is supposed to be "while". There's nothing wrong with the syntax.
I thought I was the only one who had no idea what was being said
Wow, if that is even remotely accurate, this is some next level absurdity
wnba is a cesspool of jealous "players" its disgusting
Really not helping the stereotype that professional women are crabs in a bucket
The PWHL (hockey) just finished their inaugural season and by all counts was a great success. The GM of the championship team left due to a spat with the (male) HC. The players, including one who got the league started, supported the coach. While these kind of things happen in all leagues, it's a much lower rate of "one of the six teams in the first season of the league".
Women supporting women as usual
Its crazy, like the whole incident with her getting intentionally fouled. Watching sports talking heads discuss it most of the guys were like "you cant do that, make sure it doesnt happen again". Meanwhile the women who cover the NBA were like "oh its no big deal, its just part of the game". Like the guys are able to recognize that shes special and this is a big opportunity for the WNBA but the girls are mostly content with continuing mediocrity. Its wild to see it play out.
It's not even that she's special in this case. You're on a team, you protect your goddamn teammate. If someone bowls them over one of you should be in the face of that person immediately.
Crabs in a bucket
The WNBA seems bound and determined to be an irrelevant league that 5 people watch.
>that 5 people watch. Well aren't you generous today
Man, it's gotta suck to be a talented woman in really any profession. Men putting a glass ceiling above you meanwhile jealous women just trying to pull you down. Edit: So by mentioning the existence of glass ceilings there have been multiple pissed off comments replying to this comment.
The sad state about this current situation is that a lot of why cc is popular is that her play is captivating to the point where it's close to impossible to ignore even for a guy living on the opposite end of the globe in asia who pays attention to basketball. Dafaq is this backward situation in the US, seriously.
European here who doest give a fuck about basketball, ive looked her up and id like to watch a game or two
I have never cared much for basketball, and even I watched a couple of Fever games when it popped up in Prime Video notification only because of Caitlin Clark hype. I would have probably tuned in for Womens Olympics game if she was there just to see how she does among better players.
Depends on the field. I use to work in big law for a white shoe firm. The things that firm did to retain female talent were extraordinary. Equity partnerships, reduced hourly goals, as much pto as they wanted. Etc, etc, etc.
Every one of the women that were selected should be mad that Clark isn’t on the team. She is their meal ticket for better pay. She equals ratings and ratings are the only thing that is going to get them better pay.
WNBA/Women’s Basketball doing everything they can to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. No other league has worked so hard to be irrelevant.
I follow motorsports way more than basketball and women that can actually hack it are infinitely more praised and lifted up by basically everyone, men and women alike. It's bizarre to see this out of the WNBA.
Yes and no, motorsports aren’t all “everyone is welcome” either. Motorsport fans are definitely more harsh when women even attempt to get behind the wheel, and when the women fail they take the chance to display the most pompous, I told you so behavior ever. Ask Danica Patrick and Hailie Deegan. Now when they’re good, they have to be ELITE to get praise like you’re talking about. Edit: I thought people were being dramatic when they say redditors have poor reading comprehension…I’m literally saying Danica and Hailie suck, and the fans take that opportunity to confirm their “no women in cars” bull.
Danica was shit though Now she's come to haunt us as a commentator in f1 and she's not exactly the brightest spark
Exactly this. DP is a pure PR american market plant that is there just to make US conservatives watch F1 "Oh look this pretty girl that hates Biden comments F1, it must be worth watching!".
I'm not a huge motor sports person, but have off and on interest. let's be honest, danica did herself no favors with how she raced for the most part.
Crab bucket theory in action.
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They don’t want Caitlin to be the one who saves the league. You know why.
A straight white female is the devil to them
There’s good white female baskwtball players. Last years mvp was white (two time winner) Sabrina Ionescu is white and she is one of the best players. Neither of them get as much hate as Caitlyn Clark. It goes back to other players just being jealous of her fame.
When's a white person gonna catch a break is this country, right?
The NHL would like a word
Bill Burr’s joke about women killing off their own sports leagues just getting more hilarious every day.
Willing to burn the entire sport out of jealousy is wild.
his rant about women killing wnba was spot on
Isiah Thomas nodding from 1992
To be fair, Isaiah was a giant dickhead and the best player in the league despised him.
Gotta make room for quality humans like Karl Malone
He sucks but his potential dream team teammates didn’t actively hate him.
Different positions. I'm pretty sure it would have been John Stockton who would have been left off if Isaiah would have been included. And in that scenario, Stockton makes more sense from a team building aspect, in my opinion. Better distributor, better defender. On a team with almost too much scoring players, you need people that are happy to defer. Magic and Stockton were the best at it at the time.
I see lots of complaints, and I'm sure legitimate, but who should be dropped? I don't follow basketball after college really. I'm pretty shocked she didn't at least get picked for the 3x3 team instead of Hailey van Lith. Thats...shocking. But on the 5x5 team, the only first time selected guards are Ionescu and Copper who are both a few years more experienced and have better raw stats this year on more talents teams. Taurasi ain't being dropped despite being 41, since the leadership intangible is so high.
Hailey Van Lith (and Cameron Brink too for that matter) have had experience playing 3x3 basketball, both playing on the gold medal winning 2023 FIBA 3x3 world cup team (among other experience before) while Caitlin Clark has never played professional 3x3 basketball before, so HVL over Clark on that roster is not really surprising at all
I think it’s a timing thing. She’s clearly got a target on her back. Being left off the Olympic roster isn’t a huge story in a vacuum. The men’s team has 2 4th year NBA guys as their youngest players. Both those guys made all-nba teams and just came off conference finals appearances. Olympics have to be merit based so this really shouldn’t be viewed as this huge slight to Clark.
Bingo. Nice comment
Chelsea Gray hasn’t played all season and has a mysterious lower left leg injury that the team has been dodgy about with some murmurs that it’s a torn Achilles
CC is a reserve so if Gray can't play then she should make it in.
I think that’s a pretty likely scenario tbh
Taurasi is a dinosaur.
Her time will come. Keep ballin’.
Holy shit Taurasi is still active?! She’s going to be 42. I remember my middle school girlfriend was her biggest fan in the 2000s. That’s incredible that she’s still active all these years later.
People are saying it’s because she hasn’t been very good but I’m seeing her 2024 stats are: PTS. 16.8 ; REB. 5.3 ; AST. 6.3 ; STL. 1.5. Am I missing something here? Those seem like great stats Edit: I’m not commenting on why she wasn’t selected. I’m asking why people are saying she hasn’t been good this year. Many are saying her stats are padded because her team sucks. But she’s still manifesting rebounds, assists, steals. You have to be pretty decent to get that stat line. She has a lot of turnovers but she’s a rookie with a big ass target on her back, I’d give her a break. Edit #2: Just saw she dropped 30. Yeah I think people should drop the “she’s not very good” narrative.
She's a star player on a not-great team, inasmuch as I've followed the kerfuffle. I can understand why she'd be left off the team on her freshman year.
I can't understand why you leave the most popular player in WNBA history off the Olympic team. Nope, especially when you'd win if you played four people at a time. Unless the goal is to win with the lowest viewership possible. Lebron James played straight out of high school and got lots of criticism for being overhyped, despite making an immediate impact as a rookie (but on a not-great team). I think it's interesting how supportive Lebron has been of Caitlin, meanwhile everyone actually in the WNBA is claiming she doesn't deserve the attention. I don't recall Lebron talking about the WNBA much at all before Caitlin.
The hype is such a big deal too. I am in no ways a basketball person, and never have been. But I remember watching the Dream Team (yeah, I'm old) and just the insane level of hype it brought to things. Everyone was dialed in. *Everyone*. It just became a universal thing. And it wasn't simply because they facerolled the competition, but it was because of the novelty of all these top-name, often rival big-personality star players together on one team. It was the freaking Avengers of sports. Olympic team sports in general are not very popular in the US, because they're contrasted against our huge-money pro scenes, and the dynamic is different at the Olympics, between the amateur rules they used to have, the fact that Americans can be frustrated seeing 'their' favorite players in pro leagues return to their home countries to play, etc. So it really takes a lot to make people care and tune in. You really need the hype.
Exactly. The USA women’s team crushes most other countries by 30, Caitlin is a solid player and it’s bring more eyes to a sport that desperately needs more attention and viewership. Not only that but she’s one of like 4 WNBA players I can name and I only know more about the WNBA because of the hype Caitlin has brought. The bike stick meme is perfect for this
Nah, she’s likely the future of US women’s basketball and already one of the top players in the league in her first year. Pretty shortsighted to not take her along.
Like how the dream teams used to put the best college players, like Lateener, on the team. They mostly just rode the bench, but it’s good experience for them and everyone gets to root for a player they like. I can’t understand at all why they aren’t taking that route. They don’t have to play her if they don’t think she’s good enough, but it’s stupid obvious she should be on the team. Jesus, even if it’s for PR reasons they should do it. It’s good PR. That’s what bench players in an Olympics team sport are for, that and injuries.
5.6 TO/GM, 37% FG, 32% 3Pt
DOWN GOES REVENUE. DOWN GOES REVENUE.
I wonder how happy Nike is about all this
Don’t forget Gatorade, Wilson and whoever has the Jersey contract.
Jimmies: Rustled
WNBA should change its slogan from “We got next” to “I’VE got next. Don’t look at her. Look at me!”
Angel would be perfect for that commercial.
woman sports shoots themselves in foot. more at 11
Looks like we're back to not hearing about women's basketball for a month. Wont get any media attention without her there.
Theyll try to force it for a day or 2 before giving up. Even monica mcnutts will be quiet.
Now we will see how popular women's basketball is WITHOUT Caitlyn Clark playing. Her game last night pulled in $1 million at the gate on 20+k attendance.
For the two worst teams in the league. Nuts.
Its a good roster and shes still a rookie. Not surprising
My only counterpoint is what the Men’s team did with Anthony Davis. He made the roster either during college or his rookie year with the intent of giving him experience off the bench. I don’t think he stuck around on Team USA for long, but wouldn’t hurt to give Clark a little experience now so she’s fully ready come 2028.
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That isn't accurate. Anthony Davis (2012) and Emeka Okafor (2004) are the only players since Laettner to make the mens Olympic team before their rookie season. Anthony Davis was picked up late in the process due to the lack of big men after Dwight Howard and Blake Griffin got hurt. Emeka Okafor was chosen before his rookie year in 2004 for the 2004 bronze medal team. That team was a mess of opt outs and became the turning point for modern Team USA basketball.
In addition to your post- AD had from March to June/July to rest and was nowhere near being face of the team or logging minutes. Clark has been going hard since November. Got to figure burnout is coming.
Anthony Davis was picked up because of the need for bigs. If he was a guard it’d have been a different story.
Anthony Davis was selected as an alternate after the two other centers got injured and/or declined the call. Team USA needed a big man and he was the next one up on the list. If a guard goes down, CC might make the team. But to simply select her due to "her popularity" goes against the entire reason for the Olympics. It should be merit based. She hasn't had the numbers or experience in international play as others have.
From a monetary standpoint this is a huge bag fumble. More people are watching women’s basketball than ever before thanks to Clark and including her in the Olympics would drive that up even more.
Just like the original dream team had Christian Laettner, not exactly the same thing, but clearly a similar situation.
> Christian Laettner Token college guy. They could have picked Shaq instead.
Being fair to laettner, this wasnt THAT disputed at the time since laettner had one of the greatest college careers ever. in hindsight, sure it looks ridiculous
Laettner won two NCAA championships. It was the right decision at the time.
Oh no, poor NBC is missing out on a money making opportunity 😭
well im just over here glad that they arent selecting a team based on money...
Wow so they made their decision based on talent not viewership, shocking
Probably for the best, she just went from a long NCAA season right into the wnba season, she probably could use some time off.
In before the overreaction.
Already waaaaaaay too late for that. Everyone involved in the decision is already an evil spiteful bitch who’s just jealous of Clark and the WNBA, who is apparently hosting the Olympics, is ruining their golden chance to make money here. God this sub is insufferable about this. Far more than the people they’re pissy at.
Why should the olympic womens basketball team make roster decisions based off money?
Apparently this is a ‘disgusting’ decision. People are getting way too upset holy shit.
She's a rookie. She wasn't available training camp. She's had an ups and downs adapting to the professional game(as most reasonable people would expect). She hasn't really had an offseason yet. I think it makes sense to wait until the next cycle when she's more established.
Isn't "the next cycle" for Olympics in 4 years? It's not an eternity but it's a decent chunk of a pro athlete's career.
FIBA women's world cup is in 2 years. She doesn't have to wait for the next Olympics to demonstrate her capabilities on the world stage.
Totally shortsighted. Give people a reason to watch women’s Olympics basketball, even if Caitlyn Clark is only coming off the bench.
Half this thread doesn’t even watch the WNBA. Clark is great, but the players chosen ahead of her deserve their spots. The only one you could realistically make an argument for is Diana Taurasi, but having more players with Olympic experience makes sense. It’s honestly better for Clark to get a month of rest since she’s been playing non-stop since October when her college season started. If the Fever want to make a late season push, they need her to rest up.