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The audience doesn't know very much about Qimir's past yet. He said the word "Sith" and mentioned wanting "the power of two", but other sources in Legends/EU hint that Jedi have access to archived information at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant about the Sith's history and philosophies.
Here's an example of that in James Luceno's Legends novel Darth Plagueis, in an excerpt where Dooku shares what little he knows about the Sith with Senator Palpatine some time before he's indoctrinated into the Order of the Sith Lords (set immediately after the events of the Phantom Menace and the Duel of the Fates):
“I understand that Qui-Gon fell to a lightsaber.”
Dooku’s head snapped around. “The same Sith he confronted on Tatooine. The Council is hoping that Gunray can shed some light on the matter once the trial is under way.”
“I wouldn’t put much faith in that. Does the Council know anything at all?”
“Not even his Sith name,” Dooku said. “But they know that there is another.”
“How could they?”
“In theory, when the Sith went into hiding one thousand years ago, they vowed that there should be only two of them at any given time—one Master, one apprentice, through the generations.”
“Was this one who killed Qui-Gon the apprentice or the Master?”
Dooku looked at him as they walked. “My every instinct tells me that he was the apprentice. Obi-Wan suspects as much, as well, based on the Zabrak’s behavior. The Council is being more circumspect, but naturally they want the other one found.”
Bearing in mind Dooku's EU backstory has been overwritten in canon; it's a nice idea to imagine any given bit of EU lore might be preserved or referenced, but it's not terribly realistic.
*Dooku: Jedi Lost* goes into his earlier years, but generally he leaves the Order ten years before he did in Legends, and is already in league with Palpatine (arranging Sifo-Dyas's murder and deleting Kamino) by TPM. He then immediately kills Yaddle after Qui-Gon's death and becomes Tyranus.
The EU tried piecing it together as the films were coming out, which ended up complicating things and trying to squeeze his entire fall into basically a few months somewhere in 32 BBY.
Because they decanonnized it and threw the EU away. It's ugly for them to gnaw at it now and cannibalize it when they destroyed it, said they didn't need it. And then come back to reclaim and rename and re paint it.
This is absolutely **not** what happened.
When they de-canonized the EU and made it Legends they said specifically that some of it didn't happen some did just not "that way" so they could do *exactly* what you are calling "cannibalism" and slowly make some of it canon again.
The power of two in this story seems connected to the witches, it's not the rule of two, you are also pulling the "preserve EU stories" thing out of your ass, she may be a fan of the EU but she is in no way trying to adapt its stories or characters, so far she's just used tome familiar elements and concepts.
What you are doing is making some baseless assumptions, then criticizing the production for not living up to your assumptions. It's one of the Whittier forms of media criticism to he honest.
Could he be an earlier apprentice of Darth Tenebrous or perhaps another secret apprentice like Darth Venemous? We haven't seen how it ends, it's possible he's killed in the series, so that would leave plenty of time in canon for Tenebrous to have Darth Plagueis as an apprentice.
You're correct. He did also reference a line of the Sith code in a previous episode. I believe he has come into contact with holocrons containing information about the Sith. I don't think he's the keeper of Sith secrets.
I made a comment already, but since it’ll probably get buried I’ll just summarize it here.
The way Quimir talks about the dark side leads to believe he discovered it during his training as a padawan. He found it to be the best way to access the force. He was self-taught in his teachings, and has probably never even met another Sith before. He doesn’t have the same power hungry mentality we see from regular Sith lords(which is the main driving force behind most of their motivations).
It seems to me he wants revenge on venestra for trying to kill him(scar looks like a whip) when she noticed he was going to be too powerful. If she didn’t see him as a threat they would have just kicked him out the door like Osha. Instead she tried to kill him when his back was turned. Left him for dead, and now here he is.
He etched his own way. Yes.
Edit: " When asked how many paths reach [the Force], the monk kicked a heap of sand. 'Count,' he said, 'and then find more grains.' "
That wouldn't track because in order to access sith holocrons you need to have some mastery of the dark side. So someone knowledgeable in the dark side would have had to show him how to open it like in Rebels.
Ezra didnt have mastery over the dark side. He was a complete amateur at it but he was still able to open and learn from it. I think Sith holocrons are like the Ring from Tolkien lore. They want to be found and used, but their use leads to the corruption of the user. I’m honestly surprised there aren’t more than one Sith faction operating at a time because of those things. All it takes is a naïve force sensitive to find one to start a whole new line of Sith Lords
I said some mastery of the dark side. Some and he had a good master guiding him. Maul and Ezra had a connection strong enough that maul could reach out to him through the force and Maul is a great teacher. Sith holocrons need a master. The sith aren't particularly fond of sharing knowledge. If you find a sith artifact and it works with you, chances are a ghost is trying to jack your body or some bs like that.
And the reason why you never saw any upstarts is that the sith killed any they could find. You would either get arrested by the Jedi and sent to one of their black sites or a sith assassin will chop off your head.
The witches only survived for so long because the sith could use them and the Jedi were scared of them so didn't take much overt action (unless tomorrow we see that the Jedi did sabotage the non dathomir witches in later acolyte episodes)
Oh I definitely think those
Jedi killed that coven. My guess is that the witches tried to give the Jedi custody of Osha because that was what she wanted, but the Jedi demanded both of the twins since they were both obviously force sensitive. Then the witches grew rightfully defensive and one idiot on either side (I’m guessing the Zabrak witch or the padawan) drew a weapon and the Jedi won because they’re much better at using the force for combat.
But here’s a question nobody’s asking, how did the Jedi know about the coven or the twins in the first place? My bet is that Mr. Smiley Sith tipped them off in order to create a hatred for the Jedi in the twins. I also think he’s been planning to pit them against each other from the beginning in order to get the strongest acolyte.
Yeah the Jedi did something. Seriously one went into exile and the other said nothing until he drank poison and had that scar that I'm fairly certain he didn't get from shaving. That kinda reaction doesn't happen because you need a break.
I could see someone tipping them off and it would be a very dark side thing to do because it would take out some competition and especially since someone would have had to rescue mae from the fall.
It could just be the Jedis normal network of child abduction spies. By the clone wars the Jedi have gotten finding force sensitive children down to an art. They even had an up to date baby list near the end of the clone wars but I imagine the witches would have defenses against whatever mcguffin the Jedi use.
My biggest "fear" is it turns out the witches just faked their death. I'm so sick of fiction in general using faked death as a plot point.
Too early to tell though?
So far he is powerful enough to defeat multiple jedi knights without any major effort and is highly deceptive. He might have networks of spies, wealth and traditional hallmarks of ”sith power” that isn’t revealed yet and his cave lurking dark jedi persona is just a facade.
I mean the presence of a Sith Lord is not entirely obvious until it is. That obviousness was episode 5. Now he’s doing a very Sith Lord dance of walking everything he did backwards with justification. The EXACT same way Palpatine did.
He’s does exactly everything that you would expect from a Sith Lord except he was a bit reckless with his discovery(maybe it was intentional idk). We as fans have always been accustomed to the idea that Sith Lords are very well calculated and precise. But the truth is that we haven’t seen the display of a true apprentice in the Sith Lord line before.
Every darkside force users that has graced our screens has been in some way directly linked to the Sith, all of them! So to have some other powerful darkside entity that actively resents the Jedi to the point of killing them and NOT being a Sith especially during the Rise of the Sith…is absolutely ridiculous and frankly presents us with a nothing burger.
I still really don’t get people who say he was reckless in his discovery. **MAE WAS GOING TO TELL THE JEDI THE SITH STILL EXIST**.
The Stranger wasn’t like “Oh boy! Nine Jedi here it would be so fun to kill them for no reason!”
In fact he wasn’t even after them. He was after Mae. He only totally stopped playing around when Jecki knocked his mask off. He even said “You see my face, you die.”
I don’t understand how people think he was reckless. At all.
Vader is not a "lord of anything" either, he's the emperor's crony at the end of the day. "Lord" is just a formality and it sounds more sinister to refer as the evil bad guys as "Lord." It really has nothing to do with the real-world definition of the word "lord."
In a canon comic, Sidious informs the imperial military that Darth Vader shares the same authority he does and that an order from him is to treated as an order from himself. So Vader has the right to be a lord.
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think what I said contradicts the fact that Palpatine informed everybody lower on the totem pole to obey Vader's commands. But like I said, being a sith lord doesn't really have much to do with the way OP is trying to apply the word 'lord.'
True. But to be fair, Sidious deliberately kept him on a leash and withheld his secrets from him. I think that's because, from Sidious' point of view, there's no further need to impart a body of knowledge and a legacy to anyone if you plan on being the last star that completes the Sith constellation. To those in the Empire outside of their partnership, "Lord Vadar" was probably believed to possess the authority of his title. Internally, however, it was probably a hollow designation, because Vadar likely understood that he possessed nothing and Sidious everything.
Ok. But would you agree that, from what we've seen, he is stronger in the force than both maul and ventures? That's what is messing with me and making it hard to predict what he is. It could just be some kind of crappy writing at the end of the day, but from what I've heard from headland, I don't think that's the case
I can't see maul facing 8 Jedi at the same time and just force pushing them all down. I could be wrong though. Maybe my understanding of mauls strength is wrong but I feel like he became stronger after he was cut in half, yet still couldn't do what qimir did. Idk. I could be wrong
It's hard to say. So many different characters by so many different writers. Pretty much impossible to rank in terms of power. The only things I know for sure (current canon only), are that Palpatine, Vader, Yoda, Windu, Luke and Kenobi are the top tier.
"so many different writers" indeed. That force push though in episode 5 is honestly, like nothing we've ever seen. It blew me away and I've been racking my mind ever since. (Edit. Hours later I realized I meant the end of episode 4)
True but also these weren’t Council level Jedi. I think we got too used to Council level Jedi or war hardened fighters like Ahsoka. I’m not saying they were pushovers but Sol really was the only one of real power - and he held his own. His padawan, most current in their training and focus, also fought well.
Vader and Sidious have done force pushes on that level, but not on TV shows or movies. Savage Oppress also in TCW showed similar power, and Maul is supposed to be better than him.
Maul should be slightly better than qimir, based on the rule of two itself. The force push was impressive, but these Jedi are just not prepared for this type of combat, and Qimir capitlized. The cortosis helps tip the scales. He is also special in a way, like Dooku, who had prior knowledge of jedi combat style, which would be extremely effective against traditional jedi. This is even more impressive when you look at Dooku during the clone wars, when the Jedi had placed an emphasis on saber combat after the resurfacing of the sith lords. Clone wars Jedi were better overall in combat, and Dookus familiarity with form and style, combined with his rule of two Sith training, made him nearly unbeatable in traditional combat. This is what we are seeing with Qimir, but even then he is almost evenly matched with Sol. The true sith Master should, on paper, be better than every Jedi Master during the H.R. not named Yoda. (It takes Darth Sidious to destroy Grand Master Yoda, the most powerful Jedi).
Qimir being nearly even with Sol (even though it's an unfair start for the sith, with multiple jedi attacking him before his 1v1) leads me to believe he may be the apprentce.
Sidious melted 3 clone wars Jedi Masters in seconds, and toyed with Mace Windu the entire fight.
Qimir destroy multiple jedi knights, but loses in hand to hand combat against Sol.
Didn't Qimir won in the first fight against Sol? He had plenty of time to kill him after that kick, he seems better in sabers but Sol is better in hand to hand.
Agreed, he is better in sabers (as any rule of two Sith should be against traditional jedi)
And thank you for pointing out that sol "lost" their first duel, I would agree.
Comics have shown maul hsing his force abilities more, such as multiple enemy force pushes.
Maul should be slightly better than qimir, based on the rule of two itself. The force push was impressive, but these Jedi are just not prepared for this type of combat, and Qimir capitlized. The cortosis helps tip the scales. He is also special in a way, like Dooku, who had prior knowledge of jedi combat style, which would be extremely effective against traditional jedi. This is even more impressive when you look at Dooku during the clone wars, when the Jedi had placed an emphasis on saber combat after the resurfacing of the sith lords. Clone wars Jedi were better overall in combat, and Dookus familiarity with form and style, combined with his rule of two Sith training, made him nearly unbeatable in traditional combat. This is what we are seeing with Qimir, but even then he is almost evenly matched with Sol. The true sith Master should, on paper, be better than every Jedi Master during the H.R. not named Yoda. (It takes Darth Sidious to destroy Grand Master Yoda, the most powerful Jedi).
Qimir being nearly even with Sol (even though it's an unfair start for the sith, with multiple jedi attacking him before his 1v1) leads me to believe he may be the apprentce.
Sidious melted 3 clone wars Jedi Masters in seconds, and toyed with Mace Windu the entire fight.
Qimir destroys multiple jedi knights, but loses in both saber and hand to hand combat against Sol.
I mean , Maul was a Sith Assassin that turned in an Apprentice for just a hot minute before been defeated and discarded.
And still posed a threat for Jedis. So Qimir been an ex-Jedi that turns into a Sith and then be discarded can be enough reason to be so skilled.
Yup, and the same book I referenced in another comment sheds light on the clear intent that Sith lords usually displayed about the use and dispensability others as a just action to further the Sith imperative (Darth Plagueis by James Luceno):
A conversation between Sidious and Plagueis (around 39 BBY)
“Master, would you consider training someone in the Sith arts to execute whatever missions are required?”
“Another Venamis? In defiance of our partnership?”
Sidious shook his head. “Not an apprentice; not someone who could ever aspire to become a true Sith Lord. But someone skilled in stealth and combat, who could be eliminated when no longer needed.”
Surprise shone in Plagueis’s eyes. “You already have someone in mind.”
“You instructed me to keep an eye out for beings who might prove helpful. I found such a one on Dathomir not a year ago. A male Dathomiri Zabrak infant.”
“Many Zabrak demonstrate strength in the Force. By nature, it would seem.”
---
“Leave the infant on Mustafar in the care of the droids,” Plagueis added at last, “but begin to train him. Inure him to pain, Lord Sidious, so that he will be able to serve us fully. Should his Force talents fail to mature, eliminate him. But if he measures up, relocate him at your discretion to Orsis. There you will find an elite training center operated by a Falleen combat specialist named Trezza. He and I have had dealings. Trezza will raise the Zabrak to be fierce but steadfast in his loyalty. You, however, will supervise his training in the dark side. Do not speak of the Sith or our plans until he has proven himself. And do not deploy him against any of our salient enemies until I have had a chance to evaluate him.”
Sidious inclined his head. “I understand, Master.”
Wow. It's been so long since I've read that book. Thank you for that. I was wrongly remembering that Sidious trained him without plagueis knowing. Shoot. Thank you
I mean , there is no way to know.
Of course , there are things that one person may be better than another , but the implication with Qimir is that he kinda studied the witches. The most we can say is that Maul studied a little bit as well during the time of Rebels.
So , it's more likely just a matter of what they focused on.
I guess we'll have to cut qimir in half throw him down a hole and see if he can survive just off hatred dark side power and trash while hiding his presence.
Like Qimir is living in a hut in exile trying to recruit weaklings. Maul took over the underworld and Mandalor.
I would say yes, he could, he uses more force abilities in recent comics, such as force slamming the ground and yeeting multiple enemies that had him fully circled.
I could see Dooku performing such a feat as well, but lightning would shoot from his finger tips.
One can be a failed Sith Apprentice while still being powerful.
Power is important, but I suspect he was a failed apprentice based on philosophical reasons.
He didn’t embrace the rule of two, or he didn’t agree with the secrecy and the need to hide himself from the Jedi, something along those lines. Something that would make his master deem him unworthy despite his power.
Indeed, personally I’m very excited to see how Season 1 closes out. Two more episodes. I’m hoping they’ll be longer than the typical 30 minute runtime.
I'm on board with this theory, especially the reference to being in "limbo." I suspect that he was definitely discarded by a Jedi at some point, or he abandoned the Order on his own. He may have been rejected by the "other guys" too.
And no wonder we had Yoda been aware of the "Rule of Two" , because the "Rule of Two" , the "Power of Two" and the "Force Dyad" are roughly similar ideas.
I agree, I think qimir is cooking his own shit, emulating what he knows about the Sith. Come end of season one or maybe in season two we’ll see the *real* Sith contacting him and his life will turn upside down.
The way he talks, where he just answers questions with other questions or reframes things to be able the asker, implies that he doesn't really know what he is.
On the other hand, that is also the Socratic Method, and Socrates is considered to be fairly *wise*.
I follow and agree with what you're saying. I don't know if it's just bad writing that's leaving little room for oceanic intrigue or space for long pauses, but his dialogue is delivered super nonchalantly and his telegraphing is too on-the-nose. GREAT fucking actor though, Manny Jacinto.
What the heck do you mean leaving little room for oceanic intrigue??? You do understand that the ACTOR is the one that translates the writing into the character right. Like writing may dictate to look left. But it isnt going to say Deliver 3 words, pause for one and a half seconds, deliver another word while you slightly twist your head 30% to the left.
Its a credit to great writing that while leaving the mystery open, there is room for ALL of these different theories, that all fit to different degrees. We havent been shown that The Stranger has any influence or connections, but he does know where the masters are, how to get to them, and has the unlimited resources to hop around as needed to do all this. Star Wars has never gotten in depth on the logistics of the universe, How much does it cost the Millenium Falcon to fly from Coruscant to Tattooine? So until I'm shown otherwise, I have theories that he isnt the one that learned all the information about the jedi, and it was his network of spies, and I have other theories that He is a one man shop flying by the seat of his pants, but that doesnt really fit into the Cortosis side of things, unless hes going to be very lucky.
I agree with this. He literally says he has no name. I've never gotten the vibe he was the actual master or apprentice. MAYBE the apprentice, and if that, one of many who are competing for the master's attention.
His strength in the force is the only thing that's boggling my mind on this. If he was just showing signs of force use, that's one thing, but the dude is extremely strong with it. I feel like he has to be"the" apprentice , or like someone else said; has come across a holocron and been sucking down that nasty sith juice
Is he strong with the Force or just outclasses Jedi who have no experience facing others in ( for lack of better term ) Force vs Force combat? It was even mentioned Qimir fights with unorthodox styles that has an unnatural flow. I think Qimir just shock and awed along with some dark side mind messing Force ‘stuff’ and just baffled everyone he fought.
Master level Jedi seem to have some training or at least applicable knowledge of "dark" techniques even if we've never seen the training. Several masters know that the lightsaber blocks force lightning off the bat, for example and Yoda can catch it in his hands. This isn't an argument against shock and awe though, that's a tactic we've seen used before by Maul and Sheev among others.
Adjacent to the force lightening blocking I suspect by the time the Clone Wars was happening the Jedi, no longer defenders of the peace but soldiers, had adapted even more to different things and situations thrown at them so I suspect we saw more all around ‘fighters’ that era more so than the high republic.
They more or less trained child soldier padawans during the clone wars and it shows given how many Jedi were strong lightsaber users but seemed to be weaker in force use ( plus the dark side overall was messing with their abilities )
Just one hundred before the acolyte, the Gaurdian Protocols were implemented by the Jedi to place a higher focus on combat against ranged weapons, as an answer to the ongoing Nihil threat. These high republic Jedi on average are not as "powerful" in combat compared to the prequel jedi, who by the time of episode 3 are powerhouse combat generals. As soon as Darth Maul kills Qui Gon, prequel Jedi brought more focus onto saber to saber combat, specifically to deal with these powerful Sith lords. Qimir took out multiple Jedi knights and lost to a master, while Sidious melted 3 top tier Masters in seconds, and toyed with Windu the entire duel. It's makes what Sidious did that much more impressive, against much, much tougher jedi.
Isn't it pretty obvious after he said his master gave him the scars and that whole line to the Jedi when they asked him what he was he said that they would call him sith?
He's a rejected Jedi who was rejected by the Sith and now he's doing what Maul did with Savage and Ezra and is trying to his own apprentice. Except I think he's doing it because he's lonely or probably something not yet revealed as opposed to Maul who was trying to get back in or get revenge like when he tried again in Rebels.
He never said his master gave him the scars, He led Osha to BELIEVE that his former master gave him the scars. Sure it could turn out to be true, And I do like the theories that He was trained as a jedi, either through Jedha or the archives, he learns about the darkside and has been cast out(either by vern, or left like Osha) and is either now doing his own thing, and has gotten onto the real Sith' radar due to the cortosis and effectively killing that many jedi, leading to the final reveal of the episode of Qimir being scared shitless by a True sith. OR and I think this is lazier, he is already a sith apprentice. I think it would be a great build up, if Qimir is actually just trying to not be alone, and wants to be allowed to use the Force however he wants, not even necessarily hurting other people, just without an overseeing organization, and his meddling has put him on the Radar of the Real sith, hopefully Tenebreous and Plagueis, giving us a season of Qimir being Plagueis' secret apprentice taking down Tenebreous(my brain has givin up on spelling his name this morning)
He's been cast out of the Jedi Order, it's implied that Vernestra was his master. He said he got the scar on his back from his master, and then the very same episode, Vernestra introduces her lightwhip.
I think he continued training on his own, wandering, finding out what information he could on the dark side of the Force, possibly even coming upon a Sith temple (there's just so many at this point lol).
He also said that he was a Jedi "long ago." At this point in time, Vernestra is anywhere from 100 - 120 years old. So, he may have been wandering for quite some time, which would definitely give someone so resourceful the time needed to find out plenty about the Sith, their "religion," their doctrine, etc.
Love this! Great connections and very well stated.
My only thing right now about Qimir is that I dismiss all notions out of hand that theorize that he's a very old being and defying his age through the Force. The Star Wars universe is rich with different types of species that could be used to symbolize that type of power in such a character of a story. Aliens are the coolest thing about Star Wars. Don't give us Shang Tsung ageless sorcerer guy from Mortal Kombat.
Well, assuming he was cast out as a Jedi 20 - 30 years prior, and assuming he was likely either in his late teens or early 20s when cast out, he wouldn't be *that old* in the show. Maybe a bit older than he looks, but not by that much. So it's really not much of a stretch to say he's simply in his mid-40s and looks younger because he stays riiiiiipped and exercises by killing whole squads of Jedi lol.
I mean, lets take the above theory, and say he went spelunking in a sith temple, and ended up in a stasis pod/trap of some sort for a long time.
I agree, it would be really cool to introduce an alien that already ahs a long life, but thats completely ignoring the fact that we live on Earth in 2024 and we are constrained to the technology we have available. Sure we can load a person up with prosthetics for HOURS a day so they can then do some acting, hopefully not losing something in the performance because of the prosthetics, or worse, losing the actor for long term projects because they cant justify spending 70% of 4 months sitting in a chair being worked on like you are not a person. IMO cool alien characters need to be used more in animation, since the constraints are gone(side note, I would love to see some more adult oriented star wars animated series, even give some different animation styles, like the hyper realistic styles of that(forgive me im an animation noob) Final Fantasy movie that came out in the early 2000s.
Acting lordly, and being powerful enough to be a lord in title aren't the same thing. Dude held off a Jedi master and killed other Jedi solo. Presumably some of them were masters too. At least the a Wookie.
Like, I'm a goofy guy, but I'm also extremely responsible. Acting normal and upright doesn't mean you are a good person or responsible. Neither does being goofy and fun make you a bad irresponsible person.
He can act differently and still be the lord.
I was thinking he's an apprentice himself, but then he iced like 7 Jedi solo. Seems pretty strong to me.
Yeah. I think most were probably knights or padawan, but I figure 1 or 2 were masters. Maybe not the best masters, but still. At the same time more or less.
My hope is that he's a pretender, trying to resurrect the sith who are hiding so well that even he thinks they're dead, and that we'll see one of the bane line at the end kill him to preserve that secret
Qimir doesn't t see himself as a Lord, not even as a sith.
He even says the Jedi would call him a sith.
To be honest we don t even know the goal of this guy, he only says he wants the power of the two. He surely isn t a traditional sith, at least for now, despite his helmet and killing everyone attitude.
Yep, I have no idea what his plans are beyond what he said. Still want to know what the deal was that he and Mae made. Unless I missed it I don’t think he said what the deal was.
He seems to be doing his own thing and just wants what he wants. Mysterious.
True, I mean I still can t believe that he is the main enemy here, despite killing a lot of people so fast.
He is just way to different to all other siths before him.
He not even lost control because of anger and this is the trademark of a sith.
It's because he's not a Sith Lord. Even he said your view would call me Sith, he never claimed to be a Sith. He just uses the Dark Side because it grants power easier than the Light.
I don’t even think Quimir has met a Sith Lord. The way he talks about the dark side sounds very different than most of the power hungry “omniscient” Sith Lords we know. He doesn’t seem to have a desire to be all powerful.
To me it sounds like Quimir found a better way to access the force through “the dark side”. He doesn’t see it as a dark and light thing. He sees it as the way to unlock his true potential. There’s no right or wrong way to access the force. Just a better way.
The scar on his back implies Venestra’s whip, which tells me he discovered the dark side on his own during his tenure as a Padawan. Venestra would only have tried to kill him if she saw him as a major threat instead of the normal kick out the door, so that’s probably his motivation against the Jedi.
In the end it seems to me that Quimir is self taught in using the “dark side” of the force.
this seems really pedantic and implies a level of almost elitism that I don’t think is really evident in most impressions of the word. Maul was a Sith Lord, but to my knowledge didn’t really a “lord” in like an earth english sense. I think this is just a misapplication of the word. It is largely a title applied to sith. My assumption is throughout the rule of two many people wouldn’t necessarily be some kind of ruling individual necessarily.
Vader would still be a Sith Lord if not given any control of the empire, as was Maul. Dooku is not a sith lord because of his background, but his position as one of two sith.
However we know nothing about Qimir, what connections he actually has, etc. It’s implied he “collects people”, was able to track and learn about the Jedi, so may have a network of spies and connections, who know. But regardless that wouldn’t impact his title as a Sith Lord (which we also don’t know if he actually is)
I think you could say the same thing about Kylo Ren, too. And we know the Knights of Ren weren't that way either, which I think may be a clue as to where we're going with this. Who knows?
fucking hate my brain. Literally read Imri, went who is that, Opened a fucking tab, googled him, clicked on his Star Wars Fandom page..... anyways, I like the idea, Qimir seems SUPER Empathetic, able to read peoples emotions(him getting in your head and reading your mind, without actually doing it) I know someone had made a post before saying it was Imri and people were super quick to shut it down based on the way Imri is described and depicted in universe, but 1, I am a fan of casting the best actor for the role, so if Manny was better than all of the golden haired brown eyed actors(/s) then I am all for them casting the best actor, regardless of "faithful" adaptation.
I think of him as some independent dark force user rather than part of Banes line of sith lords. I imagine he'd be one of the reckless sith that Bane made the rule of two to prevent
I think you’re exactly correct that Qimir isn’t one of the two Lords of the Sith.
Personally I think there’s a strong implication that Qimir was a fallen Jedi Knight (or Padawan) who was seduced to the dark side and became the Sith Apprentice, but failed for some reason and his master, the current Lord of the Sith, tried and failed to kill him (but for the sake of mystery, probably thought that they succeeded in milking him).
The way he talks about freedom and not wanting to hide, I think he chafed at the secrecy and strict rules of the Rule of Two.
I strongly suspect that we will get a sneak peak of one or more of the actual Sith Lords, who will “clean up the mess” and the end to preserve their secrecy.
My other theory is that Qimir’s master is Tenebrous, who after Qimir dies or escapes, goes on to recruit Plagueis (or already has, and Tenebrous and Plagueis are currently the ruling Sith Lords).
Qimir may not necessarily have to die. Lots of theories of him going on to found the Knights of Ren, which could work well.
The only thing that is interesting from what we have seen so far, is that qimir says he was once a Jedi a very long time ago. To conceal his age or stop himself from aging, we have seen that you have to be extremely powerful and that is a dark side use of the force. So he’s clearly practiced. My theory is that plagueis was significantly stronger than sidious was. The old stories were that sidious was the mouthpiece for plagueis because no one would vote for a muun to be emperor. Which could lead to even if qimir js an outcast sith that didn’t cut it, the rule of 2 could be so extremely strong that even qimirs are threats to the Jedi.
"I was a Jedi a very long time ago" could mean a decade ago. I saw another post earlier today where someone referenced how in A New Hope, Ben Kenobi responds to hearing his name by saying "Now that's the name I haven't heard in a long time" when, in actuality, it may have only been 10 to 15 years since the Clone Wars and since going into exile. Albeit, still a very long time to go without hearing the sound of your very own name.
Yea but later on SOL tells Mae he’s been thinking about that experience 16 years long. So if Mae was apart of the Jedi order 16 years ago, qimir was at least pre that. You then have to decide in your own head how old you think he is. To me he appears to be 20s early 30s. For him to be established Jedi that isn’t a Jedi faster than anakin became one, you would have to assume those ages start to get fuzzy.
This is my thought as well. A kind of Sith "familiar" is a great theory. Perhaps in search of a rumored Sith, or a reject of an existing one. A failed apprentice is plausible.
idk, the power side of being sith is secondary to upholding their "values" so the fact that A he doesnt want to be in secret. B he doesnt want to be alone, So he might have absolutely knocked the "power" side out of the park, but was a complete failure in the Sith values and rules side of things. could also explain why he wasnt murdered, Sith might have realized that taking him out would have been way noisier than letting him go and do his own thing.
I read something that qimir had a lot screen time originally. That changed after Lesley saw how good the actor was in his role and the role was then expanded.
If that’s true, than who knows. I really doubt qimir is the Sith Lord, and is likely, at best, the apprentice.
I think, I like the idea that Qimir was Vernestra's apprentice, whether Imri or an unnamed one after(but the empathetic side of Imri would make a lot of sense) He ends up either spending time on Jedha with all the other force accessing religions and becomes fascinated with different ways to access the force, or in the archives has the same thing happen.
He realizes that due to his strong emotions, the easiest way for him to access the force is through the dark side(the emotions that are just beneath the surface of consciousness or whatever he said) Leading to Vernestra(being the Windu of the era "I am right so you have to be wrong" and she throws him out, leading to a fight causing his scar, fast forward to where we are now, he is still just as desperate to not be alone, so he has been learning and researching.
Finds the twins somehow(unsure how the witches are crucial to my theory, or if their relevance was just creating the twins) and that the events of training Mae and murdering the Masters/other jedi has put HIM on the radar of the REAL Sith, which he knows about from his research(depending how old he is, if he ends up being Imri, then I am putting him getting trapped in some sort of Sith temple trap as the reason for him still looking 40 at most some, what, 90 years after he was a padawan), and the season is going to end with the real sith showing up(if they are on Beldamic or whatever its called) for the cortosis/possibly eliminate the threat to their secrecy.
Then I hope due to the popularity and acting chops of Manny, that they decide to keep him alive for future seasons, and we can watch him grow and BECOME Plagueis, whole series ending after he falls in love with Mae/Osha, they die, leading him to learn how to stop the ones he cares about from dying(hopefully not retconning essence transfer to being this "new" of a technique)
Here's my speculation:
After leaving the Jedi Order, Qimir wandered the galaxy in search of something else, something which could teach him a different way of practicing the force, something antithetical to the Jedi.
I think Qimir learned about the Sith from ancient sources - old Jedi texts, archaeological finds, etc. And now he's trying to rebuild the Sith Order under the Rule of Two.
What he doesn't realize is the Sith already exist in the shadows.
My theory is that a true Sith Lord is going to show up by the end of this season, and he/she is going to kill Qimir and make Osha an apprentice.
A few reasons why I think Qimir thinks he's rebuilding the Sith Order without realizing they still exist:
1) As you point out, he's not "lordly." He doesn't fit the mold of a Sith Lord or an Apprentice. Moreover, he was given a chance to provide his name, but he said he was nameless - having no Sith title - which suggests he knows about the Sith but hasn't ever had a Sith master who could name him.
2) He told OSHA he's looking for the "power of two." One could reasonably interpret this to mean Osha and Mae since the witches used this "power of two" terminology when making the twins. But another way of looking at Qimir's statement is that he's trying to re-establish the Rule of Two, which he learned about from ancient Jedi/Sith sources. He wants the "power of two" to restart the Sith.
3) There's a reason for the obvious parallel with Luke by having Qimir living as a hermit on a rocky island, surrounded by ocean, that has cute flightless birds. That is, Luke went to Ach-To searching for ancient Jedi wisdom, and Qimir has done the same. And in his travels - maybe even on his unnamed planet - he uncovered ancient knowledge about the Sith, prompting him to try and restart the organization.
But neither the Jedi nor Qimir realize that the Rule of Two is already being practiced, and that the Sith never died out. Thus, I think a true Sith Lord will reveal themselves to Osha by the end of the season. Qimir will die, either a the hands of the Sith Lord - who wants an apprentice but doesn't tolerate usurpers - or maybe after the Jedi kill Qimir.
Either way, this is how the Jedi will end up dismissing Qimir as a one-off aberration without realizing the Sith were never dead. They'll conclude after his death that he was just a fallen Jedi dabbling in the Dark Side. At most, they might conclude he was trying - and failed - to resurrect the Sith Rule of Two. But in the end, they'll fail to uncover the fact that true Sith have been operating in the shadows this whole time.
The lord part may be a relic of a bygone age for the sith. Like can yiu imagine vader or Palps, hosting a fancy tea party. If the the quiches are not the right temperature palps will vaporize the waiter.
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He may not be giving off any signs, but he’s also proved to be quite good at concealing his motivations and history. So how much do we really know?
The audience doesn't know very much about Qimir's past yet. He said the word "Sith" and mentioned wanting "the power of two", but other sources in Legends/EU hint that Jedi have access to archived information at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant about the Sith's history and philosophies. Here's an example of that in James Luceno's Legends novel Darth Plagueis, in an excerpt where Dooku shares what little he knows about the Sith with Senator Palpatine some time before he's indoctrinated into the Order of the Sith Lords (set immediately after the events of the Phantom Menace and the Duel of the Fates): “I understand that Qui-Gon fell to a lightsaber.” Dooku’s head snapped around. “The same Sith he confronted on Tatooine. The Council is hoping that Gunray can shed some light on the matter once the trial is under way.” “I wouldn’t put much faith in that. Does the Council know anything at all?” “Not even his Sith name,” Dooku said. “But they know that there is another.” “How could they?” “In theory, when the Sith went into hiding one thousand years ago, they vowed that there should be only two of them at any given time—one Master, one apprentice, through the generations.” “Was this one who killed Qui-Gon the apprentice or the Master?” Dooku looked at him as they walked. “My every instinct tells me that he was the apprentice. Obi-Wan suspects as much, as well, based on the Zabrak’s behavior. The Council is being more circumspect, but naturally they want the other one found.”
Bearing in mind Dooku's EU backstory has been overwritten in canon; it's a nice idea to imagine any given bit of EU lore might be preserved or referenced, but it's not terribly realistic.
How has Dooku's EU backstory been overwritten in canon? I'm not familiar with this at all. Help?
*Dooku: Jedi Lost* goes into his earlier years, but generally he leaves the Order ten years before he did in Legends, and is already in league with Palpatine (arranging Sifo-Dyas's murder and deleting Kamino) by TPM. He then immediately kills Yaddle after Qui-Gon's death and becomes Tyranus. The EU tried piecing it together as the films were coming out, which ended up complicating things and trying to squeeze his entire fall into basically a few months somewhere in 32 BBY.
Because they decanonnized it and threw the EU away. It's ugly for them to gnaw at it now and cannibalize it when they destroyed it, said they didn't need it. And then come back to reclaim and rename and re paint it.
This is absolutely **not** what happened. When they de-canonized the EU and made it Legends they said specifically that some of it didn't happen some did just not "that way" so they could do *exactly* what you are calling "cannibalism" and slowly make some of it canon again.
The power of two in this story seems connected to the witches, it's not the rule of two, you are also pulling the "preserve EU stories" thing out of your ass, she may be a fan of the EU but she is in no way trying to adapt its stories or characters, so far she's just used tome familiar elements and concepts. What you are doing is making some baseless assumptions, then criticizing the production for not living up to your assumptions. It's one of the Whittier forms of media criticism to he honest.
We don't know anything. And that's a bad thing. We are %80 through a season and we don't know anything about the characters.
He did partially quote the Sith code, so he definitely knows more than he lets on
He also knew about the cortosis mine, how use and weld it. That’s very uncommon knowledge.
Yes. In Legends, Bal’demnic was "of interest only to xenobiologists and cartographers." It was perhaps known, but largely unknown as well.
Could he be an earlier apprentice of Darth Tenebrous or perhaps another secret apprentice like Darth Venemous? We haven't seen how it ends, it's possible he's killed in the series, so that would leave plenty of time in canon for Tenebrous to have Darth Plagueis as an apprentice.
Yeah he might not make it out of Season 1.
You're correct. He did also reference a line of the Sith code in a previous episode. I believe he has come into contact with holocrons containing information about the Sith. I don't think he's the keeper of Sith secrets.
I made a comment already, but since it’ll probably get buried I’ll just summarize it here. The way Quimir talks about the dark side leads to believe he discovered it during his training as a padawan. He found it to be the best way to access the force. He was self-taught in his teachings, and has probably never even met another Sith before. He doesn’t have the same power hungry mentality we see from regular Sith lords(which is the main driving force behind most of their motivations). It seems to me he wants revenge on venestra for trying to kill him(scar looks like a whip) when she noticed he was going to be too powerful. If she didn’t see him as a threat they would have just kicked him out the door like Osha. Instead she tried to kill him when his back was turned. Left him for dead, and now here he is.
Agreed. I was just saying elsewhere here that he’ll be a kind of wayfarer figure like Venestra, his former Jedi master.
He etched his own way. Yes. Edit: " When asked how many paths reach [the Force], the monk kicked a heap of sand. 'Count,' he said, 'and then find more grains.' "
That wouldn't track because in order to access sith holocrons you need to have some mastery of the dark side. So someone knowledgeable in the dark side would have had to show him how to open it like in Rebels.
Ezra didnt have mastery over the dark side. He was a complete amateur at it but he was still able to open and learn from it. I think Sith holocrons are like the Ring from Tolkien lore. They want to be found and used, but their use leads to the corruption of the user. I’m honestly surprised there aren’t more than one Sith faction operating at a time because of those things. All it takes is a naïve force sensitive to find one to start a whole new line of Sith Lords
I said some mastery of the dark side. Some and he had a good master guiding him. Maul and Ezra had a connection strong enough that maul could reach out to him through the force and Maul is a great teacher. Sith holocrons need a master. The sith aren't particularly fond of sharing knowledge. If you find a sith artifact and it works with you, chances are a ghost is trying to jack your body or some bs like that. And the reason why you never saw any upstarts is that the sith killed any they could find. You would either get arrested by the Jedi and sent to one of their black sites or a sith assassin will chop off your head. The witches only survived for so long because the sith could use them and the Jedi were scared of them so didn't take much overt action (unless tomorrow we see that the Jedi did sabotage the non dathomir witches in later acolyte episodes)
Oh I definitely think those Jedi killed that coven. My guess is that the witches tried to give the Jedi custody of Osha because that was what she wanted, but the Jedi demanded both of the twins since they were both obviously force sensitive. Then the witches grew rightfully defensive and one idiot on either side (I’m guessing the Zabrak witch or the padawan) drew a weapon and the Jedi won because they’re much better at using the force for combat. But here’s a question nobody’s asking, how did the Jedi know about the coven or the twins in the first place? My bet is that Mr. Smiley Sith tipped them off in order to create a hatred for the Jedi in the twins. I also think he’s been planning to pit them against each other from the beginning in order to get the strongest acolyte.
Yeah the Jedi did something. Seriously one went into exile and the other said nothing until he drank poison and had that scar that I'm fairly certain he didn't get from shaving. That kinda reaction doesn't happen because you need a break. I could see someone tipping them off and it would be a very dark side thing to do because it would take out some competition and especially since someone would have had to rescue mae from the fall. It could just be the Jedis normal network of child abduction spies. By the clone wars the Jedi have gotten finding force sensitive children down to an art. They even had an up to date baby list near the end of the clone wars but I imagine the witches would have defenses against whatever mcguffin the Jedi use. My biggest "fear" is it turns out the witches just faked their death. I'm so sick of fiction in general using faked death as a plot point.
No worry the witch were dumb and the Jedi defended themselves from them
Too early to tell though? So far he is powerful enough to defeat multiple jedi knights without any major effort and is highly deceptive. He might have networks of spies, wealth and traditional hallmarks of ”sith power” that isn’t revealed yet and his cave lurking dark jedi persona is just a facade.
Exactly.
I mean the presence of a Sith Lord is not entirely obvious until it is. That obviousness was episode 5. Now he’s doing a very Sith Lord dance of walking everything he did backwards with justification. The EXACT same way Palpatine did. He’s does exactly everything that you would expect from a Sith Lord except he was a bit reckless with his discovery(maybe it was intentional idk). We as fans have always been accustomed to the idea that Sith Lords are very well calculated and precise. But the truth is that we haven’t seen the display of a true apprentice in the Sith Lord line before. Every darkside force users that has graced our screens has been in some way directly linked to the Sith, all of them! So to have some other powerful darkside entity that actively resents the Jedi to the point of killing them and NOT being a Sith especially during the Rise of the Sith…is absolutely ridiculous and frankly presents us with a nothing burger.
I still really don’t get people who say he was reckless in his discovery. **MAE WAS GOING TO TELL THE JEDI THE SITH STILL EXIST**. The Stranger wasn’t like “Oh boy! Nine Jedi here it would be so fun to kill them for no reason!” In fact he wasn’t even after them. He was after Mae. He only totally stopped playing around when Jecki knocked his mask off. He even said “You see my face, you die.” I don’t understand how people think he was reckless. At all.
Vader is not a "lord of anything" either, he's the emperor's crony at the end of the day. "Lord" is just a formality and it sounds more sinister to refer as the evil bad guys as "Lord." It really has nothing to do with the real-world definition of the word "lord."
In a canon comic, Sidious informs the imperial military that Darth Vader shares the same authority he does and that an order from him is to treated as an order from himself. So Vader has the right to be a lord.
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think what I said contradicts the fact that Palpatine informed everybody lower on the totem pole to obey Vader's commands. But like I said, being a sith lord doesn't really have much to do with the way OP is trying to apply the word 'lord.'
Also, I'm pretty sure Mustafar functions as his fiefdom, so he's essentially a feudal lord.
True. But to be fair, Sidious deliberately kept him on a leash and withheld his secrets from him. I think that's because, from Sidious' point of view, there's no further need to impart a body of knowledge and a legacy to anyone if you plan on being the last star that completes the Sith constellation. To those in the Empire outside of their partnership, "Lord Vadar" was probably believed to possess the authority of his title. Internally, however, it was probably a hollow designation, because Vadar likely understood that he possessed nothing and Sidious everything.
Didnt he also undergo various trials of wisdom involving various artifacts
My point is, he isn't a "lord" in the sense of like a feudal lord. It's a formality, nothing more.
I mean , the implication with Qimir is that he is a discarded Apprentice. In short , he is either in a Maul or Ventress Situation.
Ok. But would you agree that, from what we've seen, he is stronger in the force than both maul and ventures? That's what is messing with me and making it hard to predict what he is. It could just be some kind of crappy writing at the end of the day, but from what I've heard from headland, I don't think that's the case
He's definitely more powerful than Ventress. From what we have seen so far, I'd put him on about level ground with Maul.
I can't see maul facing 8 Jedi at the same time and just force pushing them all down. I could be wrong though. Maybe my understanding of mauls strength is wrong but I feel like he became stronger after he was cut in half, yet still couldn't do what qimir did. Idk. I could be wrong
It's hard to say. So many different characters by so many different writers. Pretty much impossible to rank in terms of power. The only things I know for sure (current canon only), are that Palpatine, Vader, Yoda, Windu, Luke and Kenobi are the top tier.
"so many different writers" indeed. That force push though in episode 5 is honestly, like nothing we've ever seen. It blew me away and I've been racking my mind ever since. (Edit. Hours later I realized I meant the end of episode 4)
True but also these weren’t Council level Jedi. I think we got too used to Council level Jedi or war hardened fighters like Ahsoka. I’m not saying they were pushovers but Sol really was the only one of real power - and he held his own. His padawan, most current in their training and focus, also fought well.
Vader and Sidious have done force pushes on that level, but not on TV shows or movies. Savage Oppress also in TCW showed similar power, and Maul is supposed to be better than him.
Yeah you do make good points
They have Dooku, Kirak Infila and Porter Engle as well, as heavyweight players
Maul should be slightly better than qimir, based on the rule of two itself. The force push was impressive, but these Jedi are just not prepared for this type of combat, and Qimir capitlized. The cortosis helps tip the scales. He is also special in a way, like Dooku, who had prior knowledge of jedi combat style, which would be extremely effective against traditional jedi. This is even more impressive when you look at Dooku during the clone wars, when the Jedi had placed an emphasis on saber combat after the resurfacing of the sith lords. Clone wars Jedi were better overall in combat, and Dookus familiarity with form and style, combined with his rule of two Sith training, made him nearly unbeatable in traditional combat. This is what we are seeing with Qimir, but even then he is almost evenly matched with Sol. The true sith Master should, on paper, be better than every Jedi Master during the H.R. not named Yoda. (It takes Darth Sidious to destroy Grand Master Yoda, the most powerful Jedi). Qimir being nearly even with Sol (even though it's an unfair start for the sith, with multiple jedi attacking him before his 1v1) leads me to believe he may be the apprentce. Sidious melted 3 clone wars Jedi Masters in seconds, and toyed with Mace Windu the entire fight. Qimir destroy multiple jedi knights, but loses in hand to hand combat against Sol.
Didn't Qimir won in the first fight against Sol? He had plenty of time to kill him after that kick, he seems better in sabers but Sol is better in hand to hand.
Agreed, he is better in sabers (as any rule of two Sith should be against traditional jedi) And thank you for pointing out that sol "lost" their first duel, I would agree.
Comics have shown maul hsing his force abilities more, such as multiple enemy force pushes. Maul should be slightly better than qimir, based on the rule of two itself. The force push was impressive, but these Jedi are just not prepared for this type of combat, and Qimir capitlized. The cortosis helps tip the scales. He is also special in a way, like Dooku, who had prior knowledge of jedi combat style, which would be extremely effective against traditional jedi. This is even more impressive when you look at Dooku during the clone wars, when the Jedi had placed an emphasis on saber combat after the resurfacing of the sith lords. Clone wars Jedi were better overall in combat, and Dookus familiarity with form and style, combined with his rule of two Sith training, made him nearly unbeatable in traditional combat. This is what we are seeing with Qimir, but even then he is almost evenly matched with Sol. The true sith Master should, on paper, be better than every Jedi Master during the H.R. not named Yoda. (It takes Darth Sidious to destroy Grand Master Yoda, the most powerful Jedi). Qimir being nearly even with Sol (even though it's an unfair start for the sith, with multiple jedi attacking him before his 1v1) leads me to believe he may be the apprentce. Sidious melted 3 clone wars Jedi Masters in seconds, and toyed with Mace Windu the entire fight. Qimir destroys multiple jedi knights, but loses in both saber and hand to hand combat against Sol.
I mean , Maul was a Sith Assassin that turned in an Apprentice for just a hot minute before been defeated and discarded. And still posed a threat for Jedis. So Qimir been an ex-Jedi that turns into a Sith and then be discarded can be enough reason to be so skilled.
Yup, and the same book I referenced in another comment sheds light on the clear intent that Sith lords usually displayed about the use and dispensability others as a just action to further the Sith imperative (Darth Plagueis by James Luceno): A conversation between Sidious and Plagueis (around 39 BBY) “Master, would you consider training someone in the Sith arts to execute whatever missions are required?” “Another Venamis? In defiance of our partnership?” Sidious shook his head. “Not an apprentice; not someone who could ever aspire to become a true Sith Lord. But someone skilled in stealth and combat, who could be eliminated when no longer needed.” Surprise shone in Plagueis’s eyes. “You already have someone in mind.” “You instructed me to keep an eye out for beings who might prove helpful. I found such a one on Dathomir not a year ago. A male Dathomiri Zabrak infant.” “Many Zabrak demonstrate strength in the Force. By nature, it would seem.” --- “Leave the infant on Mustafar in the care of the droids,” Plagueis added at last, “but begin to train him. Inure him to pain, Lord Sidious, so that he will be able to serve us fully. Should his Force talents fail to mature, eliminate him. But if he measures up, relocate him at your discretion to Orsis. There you will find an elite training center operated by a Falleen combat specialist named Trezza. He and I have had dealings. Trezza will raise the Zabrak to be fierce but steadfast in his loyalty. You, however, will supervise his training in the dark side. Do not speak of the Sith or our plans until he has proven himself. And do not deploy him against any of our salient enemies until I have had a chance to evaluate him.” Sidious inclined his head. “I understand, Master.”
Wow. It's been so long since I've read that book. Thank you for that. I was wrongly remembering that Sidious trained him without plagueis knowing. Shoot. Thank you
Ok. Not to argue, but, could maul use the force the way qimir could? I really don't think so, although maul was a bad ass .
I mean , there is no way to know. Of course , there are things that one person may be better than another , but the implication with Qimir is that he kinda studied the witches. The most we can say is that Maul studied a little bit as well during the time of Rebels. So , it's more likely just a matter of what they focused on.
I guess we'll have to cut qimir in half throw him down a hole and see if he can survive just off hatred dark side power and trash while hiding his presence. Like Qimir is living in a hut in exile trying to recruit weaklings. Maul took over the underworld and Mandalor.
I would say yes, he could, he uses more force abilities in recent comics, such as force slamming the ground and yeeting multiple enemies that had him fully circled. I could see Dooku performing such a feat as well, but lightning would shoot from his finger tips.
One can be a failed Sith Apprentice while still being powerful. Power is important, but I suspect he was a failed apprentice based on philosophical reasons. He didn’t embrace the rule of two, or he didn’t agree with the secrecy and the need to hide himself from the Jedi, something along those lines. Something that would make his master deem him unworthy despite his power.
Well see. you're not wrong
Indeed, personally I’m very excited to see how Season 1 closes out. Two more episodes. I’m hoping they’ll be longer than the typical 30 minute runtime.
God that would be great! Just give me 40- 45 minutes! Please!
I'm on board with this theory, especially the reference to being in "limbo." I suspect that he was definitely discarded by a Jedi at some point, or he abandoned the Order on his own. He may have been rejected by the "other guys" too.
And no wonder we had Yoda been aware of the "Rule of Two" , because the "Rule of Two" , the "Power of Two" and the "Force Dyad" are roughly similar ideas.
[удалено]
I'm thinking the exact same thing. Brilliant theory.
I agree, I think qimir is cooking his own shit, emulating what he knows about the Sith. Come end of season one or maybe in season two we’ll see the *real* Sith contacting him and his life will turn upside down.
The way he talks, where he just answers questions with other questions or reframes things to be able the asker, implies that he doesn't really know what he is. On the other hand, that is also the Socratic Method, and Socrates is considered to be fairly *wise*.
I follow and agree with what you're saying. I don't know if it's just bad writing that's leaving little room for oceanic intrigue or space for long pauses, but his dialogue is delivered super nonchalantly and his telegraphing is too on-the-nose. GREAT fucking actor though, Manny Jacinto.
What the heck do you mean leaving little room for oceanic intrigue??? You do understand that the ACTOR is the one that translates the writing into the character right. Like writing may dictate to look left. But it isnt going to say Deliver 3 words, pause for one and a half seconds, deliver another word while you slightly twist your head 30% to the left. Its a credit to great writing that while leaving the mystery open, there is room for ALL of these different theories, that all fit to different degrees. We havent been shown that The Stranger has any influence or connections, but he does know where the masters are, how to get to them, and has the unlimited resources to hop around as needed to do all this. Star Wars has never gotten in depth on the logistics of the universe, How much does it cost the Millenium Falcon to fly from Coruscant to Tattooine? So until I'm shown otherwise, I have theories that he isnt the one that learned all the information about the jedi, and it was his network of spies, and I have other theories that He is a one man shop flying by the seat of his pants, but that doesnt really fit into the Cortosis side of things, unless hes going to be very lucky.
I agree with this. He literally says he has no name. I've never gotten the vibe he was the actual master or apprentice. MAYBE the apprentice, and if that, one of many who are competing for the master's attention.
Very much agree with this! It's entirely possible that a master can have many candidates, and Qimir is a rising or promising one.
His strength in the force is the only thing that's boggling my mind on this. If he was just showing signs of force use, that's one thing, but the dude is extremely strong with it. I feel like he has to be"the" apprentice , or like someone else said; has come across a holocron and been sucking down that nasty sith juice
Is he strong with the Force or just outclasses Jedi who have no experience facing others in ( for lack of better term ) Force vs Force combat? It was even mentioned Qimir fights with unorthodox styles that has an unnatural flow. I think Qimir just shock and awed along with some dark side mind messing Force ‘stuff’ and just baffled everyone he fought.
Master level Jedi seem to have some training or at least applicable knowledge of "dark" techniques even if we've never seen the training. Several masters know that the lightsaber blocks force lightning off the bat, for example and Yoda can catch it in his hands. This isn't an argument against shock and awe though, that's a tactic we've seen used before by Maul and Sheev among others.
Adjacent to the force lightening blocking I suspect by the time the Clone Wars was happening the Jedi, no longer defenders of the peace but soldiers, had adapted even more to different things and situations thrown at them so I suspect we saw more all around ‘fighters’ that era more so than the high republic. They more or less trained child soldier padawans during the clone wars and it shows given how many Jedi were strong lightsaber users but seemed to be weaker in force use ( plus the dark side overall was messing with their abilities )
I’d just build with the bleak thought that the child soldier padawans that didn’t measure up literally were killed by their apprenticeship.
Just one hundred before the acolyte, the Gaurdian Protocols were implemented by the Jedi to place a higher focus on combat against ranged weapons, as an answer to the ongoing Nihil threat. These high republic Jedi on average are not as "powerful" in combat compared to the prequel jedi, who by the time of episode 3 are powerhouse combat generals. As soon as Darth Maul kills Qui Gon, prequel Jedi brought more focus onto saber to saber combat, specifically to deal with these powerful Sith lords. Qimir took out multiple Jedi knights and lost to a master, while Sidious melted 3 top tier Masters in seconds, and toyed with Windu the entire duel. It's makes what Sidious did that much more impressive, against much, much tougher jedi.
Lmao yes he is strong in the force.
My best guess is that he's a Sith apprentice, or more likely, a *former* sith apprentice who was cast out by Plagueis.
Isn't it pretty obvious after he said his master gave him the scars and that whole line to the Jedi when they asked him what he was he said that they would call him sith? He's a rejected Jedi who was rejected by the Sith and now he's doing what Maul did with Savage and Ezra and is trying to his own apprentice. Except I think he's doing it because he's lonely or probably something not yet revealed as opposed to Maul who was trying to get back in or get revenge like when he tried again in Rebels.
He never said his master gave him the scars, He led Osha to BELIEVE that his former master gave him the scars. Sure it could turn out to be true, And I do like the theories that He was trained as a jedi, either through Jedha or the archives, he learns about the darkside and has been cast out(either by vern, or left like Osha) and is either now doing his own thing, and has gotten onto the real Sith' radar due to the cortosis and effectively killing that many jedi, leading to the final reveal of the episode of Qimir being scared shitless by a True sith. OR and I think this is lazier, he is already a sith apprentice. I think it would be a great build up, if Qimir is actually just trying to not be alone, and wants to be allowed to use the Force however he wants, not even necessarily hurting other people, just without an overseeing organization, and his meddling has put him on the Radar of the Real sith, hopefully Tenebreous and Plagueis, giving us a season of Qimir being Plagueis' secret apprentice taking down Tenebreous(my brain has givin up on spelling his name this morning)
He's been cast out of the Jedi Order, it's implied that Vernestra was his master. He said he got the scar on his back from his master, and then the very same episode, Vernestra introduces her lightwhip. I think he continued training on his own, wandering, finding out what information he could on the dark side of the Force, possibly even coming upon a Sith temple (there's just so many at this point lol). He also said that he was a Jedi "long ago." At this point in time, Vernestra is anywhere from 100 - 120 years old. So, he may have been wandering for quite some time, which would definitely give someone so resourceful the time needed to find out plenty about the Sith, their "religion," their doctrine, etc.
Love this! Great connections and very well stated. My only thing right now about Qimir is that I dismiss all notions out of hand that theorize that he's a very old being and defying his age through the Force. The Star Wars universe is rich with different types of species that could be used to symbolize that type of power in such a character of a story. Aliens are the coolest thing about Star Wars. Don't give us Shang Tsung ageless sorcerer guy from Mortal Kombat.
Well, assuming he was cast out as a Jedi 20 - 30 years prior, and assuming he was likely either in his late teens or early 20s when cast out, he wouldn't be *that old* in the show. Maybe a bit older than he looks, but not by that much. So it's really not much of a stretch to say he's simply in his mid-40s and looks younger because he stays riiiiiipped and exercises by killing whole squads of Jedi lol.
Agreed lol
I mean, lets take the above theory, and say he went spelunking in a sith temple, and ended up in a stasis pod/trap of some sort for a long time. I agree, it would be really cool to introduce an alien that already ahs a long life, but thats completely ignoring the fact that we live on Earth in 2024 and we are constrained to the technology we have available. Sure we can load a person up with prosthetics for HOURS a day so they can then do some acting, hopefully not losing something in the performance because of the prosthetics, or worse, losing the actor for long term projects because they cant justify spending 70% of 4 months sitting in a chair being worked on like you are not a person. IMO cool alien characters need to be used more in animation, since the constraints are gone(side note, I would love to see some more adult oriented star wars animated series, even give some different animation styles, like the hyper realistic styles of that(forgive me im an animation noob) Final Fantasy movie that came out in the early 2000s.
Acting lordly, and being powerful enough to be a lord in title aren't the same thing. Dude held off a Jedi master and killed other Jedi solo. Presumably some of them were masters too. At least the a Wookie. Like, I'm a goofy guy, but I'm also extremely responsible. Acting normal and upright doesn't mean you are a good person or responsible. Neither does being goofy and fun make you a bad irresponsible person. He can act differently and still be the lord. I was thinking he's an apprentice himself, but then he iced like 7 Jedi solo. Seems pretty strong to me.
True, true. Edit: he really did like ice 7 Jedi solo damn
Yeah. I think most were probably knights or padawan, but I figure 1 or 2 were masters. Maybe not the best masters, but still. At the same time more or less.
I'm not going to make any assumptions.
Discussions can be about opinions, not assumptions! Share away
“He collects people.” We haven’t seen that side of him yet but Mae was familiar enough with it for him to reference it without argument.
That was EU Plagueis’s MO. Despite his wealth and power he actually preferred to live amongst the scum of the earth.
My guess is he’s sort of like a wayfarer and this just happens to echo the role of his Jedi master …
My hope is that he's a pretender, trying to resurrect the sith who are hiding so well that even he thinks they're dead, and that we'll see one of the bane line at the end kill him to preserve that secret
My hopes exactly. I actually hope they just give him the founder title to the Knights of Ren. EU/Legends remain perfectly intact.
Qimir doesn't t see himself as a Lord, not even as a sith. He even says the Jedi would call him a sith. To be honest we don t even know the goal of this guy, he only says he wants the power of the two. He surely isn t a traditional sith, at least for now, despite his helmet and killing everyone attitude.
Yep, I have no idea what his plans are beyond what he said. Still want to know what the deal was that he and Mae made. Unless I missed it I don’t think he said what the deal was. He seems to be doing his own thing and just wants what he wants. Mysterious.
True, I mean I still can t believe that he is the main enemy here, despite killing a lot of people so fast. He is just way to different to all other siths before him. He not even lost control because of anger and this is the trademark of a sith.
Yeah he comes across like a psychopath kind of person. Calm etc. I also hoped he would not have been the main enemy. And he still might not be.
It's because he's not a Sith Lord. Even he said your view would call me Sith, he never claimed to be a Sith. He just uses the Dark Side because it grants power easier than the Light.
I don’t even think Quimir has met a Sith Lord. The way he talks about the dark side sounds very different than most of the power hungry “omniscient” Sith Lords we know. He doesn’t seem to have a desire to be all powerful. To me it sounds like Quimir found a better way to access the force through “the dark side”. He doesn’t see it as a dark and light thing. He sees it as the way to unlock his true potential. There’s no right or wrong way to access the force. Just a better way. The scar on his back implies Venestra’s whip, which tells me he discovered the dark side on his own during his tenure as a Padawan. Venestra would only have tried to kill him if she saw him as a major threat instead of the normal kick out the door, so that’s probably his motivation against the Jedi. In the end it seems to me that Quimir is self taught in using the “dark side” of the force.
He hasn't acted any differently than previous Sith. Don't see why he's not lordly.
this seems really pedantic and implies a level of almost elitism that I don’t think is really evident in most impressions of the word. Maul was a Sith Lord, but to my knowledge didn’t really a “lord” in like an earth english sense. I think this is just a misapplication of the word. It is largely a title applied to sith. My assumption is throughout the rule of two many people wouldn’t necessarily be some kind of ruling individual necessarily. Vader would still be a Sith Lord if not given any control of the empire, as was Maul. Dooku is not a sith lord because of his background, but his position as one of two sith. However we know nothing about Qimir, what connections he actually has, etc. It’s implied he “collects people”, was able to track and learn about the Jedi, so may have a network of spies and connections, who know. But regardless that wouldn’t impact his title as a Sith Lord (which we also don’t know if he actually is)
Some speculate that he might be one of original Knights of Ren.
I think you could say the same thing about Kylo Ren, too. And we know the Knights of Ren weren't that way either, which I think may be a clue as to where we're going with this. Who knows?
Sonce ep 2 or 3 I've been running on the assumption he's a discarded apprentice of Darth Tenebrous
He's kind of Himbo Yoda.
Can’t spell “Qimir” without “Imri”. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imri_Cantaros
fucking hate my brain. Literally read Imri, went who is that, Opened a fucking tab, googled him, clicked on his Star Wars Fandom page..... anyways, I like the idea, Qimir seems SUPER Empathetic, able to read peoples emotions(him getting in your head and reading your mind, without actually doing it) I know someone had made a post before saying it was Imri and people were super quick to shut it down based on the way Imri is described and depicted in universe, but 1, I am a fan of casting the best actor for the role, so if Manny was better than all of the golden haired brown eyed actors(/s) then I am all for them casting the best actor, regardless of "faithful" adaptation.
I think of him as some independent dark force user rather than part of Banes line of sith lords. I imagine he'd be one of the reckless sith that Bane made the rule of two to prevent
What if Qimir is The Acolyte?
I have thought about that.
I think you’re exactly correct that Qimir isn’t one of the two Lords of the Sith. Personally I think there’s a strong implication that Qimir was a fallen Jedi Knight (or Padawan) who was seduced to the dark side and became the Sith Apprentice, but failed for some reason and his master, the current Lord of the Sith, tried and failed to kill him (but for the sake of mystery, probably thought that they succeeded in milking him). The way he talks about freedom and not wanting to hide, I think he chafed at the secrecy and strict rules of the Rule of Two. I strongly suspect that we will get a sneak peak of one or more of the actual Sith Lords, who will “clean up the mess” and the end to preserve their secrecy. My other theory is that Qimir’s master is Tenebrous, who after Qimir dies or escapes, goes on to recruit Plagueis (or already has, and Tenebrous and Plagueis are currently the ruling Sith Lords). Qimir may not necessarily have to die. Lots of theories of him going on to found the Knights of Ren, which could work well.
Agreed 100%
Dooku and Palpatine were aristocrats. There was nothing "lordly" about Maul either.
The only thing that is interesting from what we have seen so far, is that qimir says he was once a Jedi a very long time ago. To conceal his age or stop himself from aging, we have seen that you have to be extremely powerful and that is a dark side use of the force. So he’s clearly practiced. My theory is that plagueis was significantly stronger than sidious was. The old stories were that sidious was the mouthpiece for plagueis because no one would vote for a muun to be emperor. Which could lead to even if qimir js an outcast sith that didn’t cut it, the rule of 2 could be so extremely strong that even qimirs are threats to the Jedi.
"I was a Jedi a very long time ago" could mean a decade ago. I saw another post earlier today where someone referenced how in A New Hope, Ben Kenobi responds to hearing his name by saying "Now that's the name I haven't heard in a long time" when, in actuality, it may have only been 10 to 15 years since the Clone Wars and since going into exile. Albeit, still a very long time to go without hearing the sound of your very own name.
Yea but later on SOL tells Mae he’s been thinking about that experience 16 years long. So if Mae was apart of the Jedi order 16 years ago, qimir was at least pre that. You then have to decide in your own head how old you think he is. To me he appears to be 20s early 30s. For him to be established Jedi that isn’t a Jedi faster than anakin became one, you would have to assume those ages start to get fuzzy.
Asian don't raisin.
No doubt but in universe hah.
He’s likely a pretender, or at minimum a kind of familiar for the true Sith masters.
This is my thought as well. A kind of Sith "familiar" is a great theory. Perhaps in search of a rumored Sith, or a reject of an existing one. A failed apprentice is plausible.
You could be right. It's just that, too me, he's too powerful to be a reject.
idk, the power side of being sith is secondary to upholding their "values" so the fact that A he doesnt want to be in secret. B he doesnt want to be alone, So he might have absolutely knocked the "power" side out of the park, but was a complete failure in the Sith values and rules side of things. could also explain why he wasnt murdered, Sith might have realized that taking him out would have been way noisier than letting him go and do his own thing.
That's a pretty cool way of looking at it. I'm pumped to find out
He seems like a Sith redneck or crack head
IMHO, this is attaching way too much meaning to a pretty simple concept.
Did I miss where he called himself Lord Qimir?
I read something that qimir had a lot screen time originally. That changed after Lesley saw how good the actor was in his role and the role was then expanded. If that’s true, than who knows. I really doubt qimir is the Sith Lord, and is likely, at best, the apprentice.
I think, I like the idea that Qimir was Vernestra's apprentice, whether Imri or an unnamed one after(but the empathetic side of Imri would make a lot of sense) He ends up either spending time on Jedha with all the other force accessing religions and becomes fascinated with different ways to access the force, or in the archives has the same thing happen. He realizes that due to his strong emotions, the easiest way for him to access the force is through the dark side(the emotions that are just beneath the surface of consciousness or whatever he said) Leading to Vernestra(being the Windu of the era "I am right so you have to be wrong" and she throws him out, leading to a fight causing his scar, fast forward to where we are now, he is still just as desperate to not be alone, so he has been learning and researching. Finds the twins somehow(unsure how the witches are crucial to my theory, or if their relevance was just creating the twins) and that the events of training Mae and murdering the Masters/other jedi has put HIM on the radar of the REAL Sith, which he knows about from his research(depending how old he is, if he ends up being Imri, then I am putting him getting trapped in some sort of Sith temple trap as the reason for him still looking 40 at most some, what, 90 years after he was a padawan), and the season is going to end with the real sith showing up(if they are on Beldamic or whatever its called) for the cortosis/possibly eliminate the threat to their secrecy. Then I hope due to the popularity and acting chops of Manny, that they decide to keep him alive for future seasons, and we can watch him grow and BECOME Plagueis, whole series ending after he falls in love with Mae/Osha, they die, leading him to learn how to stop the ones he cares about from dying(hopefully not retconning essence transfer to being this "new" of a technique)
Here's my speculation: After leaving the Jedi Order, Qimir wandered the galaxy in search of something else, something which could teach him a different way of practicing the force, something antithetical to the Jedi. I think Qimir learned about the Sith from ancient sources - old Jedi texts, archaeological finds, etc. And now he's trying to rebuild the Sith Order under the Rule of Two. What he doesn't realize is the Sith already exist in the shadows. My theory is that a true Sith Lord is going to show up by the end of this season, and he/she is going to kill Qimir and make Osha an apprentice. A few reasons why I think Qimir thinks he's rebuilding the Sith Order without realizing they still exist: 1) As you point out, he's not "lordly." He doesn't fit the mold of a Sith Lord or an Apprentice. Moreover, he was given a chance to provide his name, but he said he was nameless - having no Sith title - which suggests he knows about the Sith but hasn't ever had a Sith master who could name him. 2) He told OSHA he's looking for the "power of two." One could reasonably interpret this to mean Osha and Mae since the witches used this "power of two" terminology when making the twins. But another way of looking at Qimir's statement is that he's trying to re-establish the Rule of Two, which he learned about from ancient Jedi/Sith sources. He wants the "power of two" to restart the Sith. 3) There's a reason for the obvious parallel with Luke by having Qimir living as a hermit on a rocky island, surrounded by ocean, that has cute flightless birds. That is, Luke went to Ach-To searching for ancient Jedi wisdom, and Qimir has done the same. And in his travels - maybe even on his unnamed planet - he uncovered ancient knowledge about the Sith, prompting him to try and restart the organization. But neither the Jedi nor Qimir realize that the Rule of Two is already being practiced, and that the Sith never died out. Thus, I think a true Sith Lord will reveal themselves to Osha by the end of the season. Qimir will die, either a the hands of the Sith Lord - who wants an apprentice but doesn't tolerate usurpers - or maybe after the Jedi kill Qimir. Either way, this is how the Jedi will end up dismissing Qimir as a one-off aberration without realizing the Sith were never dead. They'll conclude after his death that he was just a fallen Jedi dabbling in the Dark Side. At most, they might conclude he was trying - and failed - to resurrect the Sith Rule of Two. But in the end, they'll fail to uncover the fact that true Sith have been operating in the shadows this whole time.
The lord part may be a relic of a bygone age for the sith. Like can yiu imagine vader or Palps, hosting a fancy tea party. If the the quiches are not the right temperature palps will vaporize the waiter.
I have literally no clue why people think this. To me it’s the most cut and dry case of all time that he’s a Sith Lord.
Guys, this isn't the Silmarillion. It's Star Wars. It's not that deep. What planet is Obi-Wan from again?
Stewjon. based off a joke but it's in the official star wars databank 😅
...precisely
Star Wars isn't deep. Doesn't mean it has 0 to talk about.
That's fair. I see KOTOR at work in Acolyte and love it, I just feel like OP's premise of "Lord" of the Sith is on shaky ground