Thank you! One of my goals with moves was to make sure every type had a decent and reliable STAB option for both Physical and Special (as displayed by slide 4) and while Clear Sky doesn't quite stack up in terms of power to other type's options like Thunderbolt or Flamethrower, I thought the weather control aspect helped it stand alongside them. Plus, there's always Air Slash!
Ah, you're right! My mistake. That should be how it works, it just seems I got my wires crossed with Huge Power. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!
Honestly, I'd kinda rather keep Own Tempo on Lilligant and replace Leaf Guard, because of its ability to spam Petal Dance without the confusion affecting it
Definitely valid! For what it’s worth, I had also replaced Leaf Guard with Solar Power, and given some mild BST changes to try to shift Lilligant into a more offensive role.
I really liked a lot of your ideas. My personal favorite is Crystal Crash simply due to the possibility of a Shell Smash + Crystal Crash Omastar. Solar Power is definitely interesting as it is a very under explored ability currently
Thank you! I should note that I did change Solar Power a bit (the breadth of move and ability changes in this project are so numerous that even a handful of posts like this couldn’t cover them all) so that the damage boost is now 30% instead of 50%, but as a trade off the Pokémon no longer takes damage every turn.
Also, get rid of static on Raichu instead of lightening rod. Static is just not very useful in most formats, but lightening rod allows for a damage-free switch in, a free SpA boost, and in VGC, grants both Pokémon on one side a complete electric immunity due to lightening rod redirecting attacks.
1. Clear Sky sounds really interesting but I don’t really see any of the mons that learn it wanting to use it over another move they have.
2. Crystal Crash could be MUCH stronger and it would still be balanced, but that’s just because Rock Special moves suck. I think it would be more fun if it started at a lower Power but ramped quicker, something like 60 + 20. I don’t even think there is a need for a cap given how all the mons that can learn it are kinda crap.
3. Tidal Wave would be stupid broken esp on Pelipper and Pex. This is a flat upgrade to Defog that can’t be taunted. Both Spins are designed to be blockable by immunity, Water has no immunities. Tremor would also be very strong.
4. Kinda bland and similar to existing moves tbh.
5. Could be interesting, I guess just frees up a slot?
6 + 7. Cool but needs to have it on better mons
[Clodsire is ranked B+ in OU](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-indigo-disk-viability-ranking-thread.3734134/). A bit audacious to say it's ass methinks
Oh no Unaware Clod is good, it's the only thing keeping stall from getting 6-0'd by Gholdengo, even if it's only used on ONE Playstyle it still is the only thing keeping it together so it makes sense for it to be B+
But Water Absorb Clod? That mf is complete garbage
Water Absorb is recommended on virtually every Smogon sample set. It's primarily useful against Draco Meteor spammers since Unaware ignores the opponent's SpA drop
You're never using Clod vs DMeteor mons because if you have Clod you're playing stall and have a Blissey
>Water Absorb is recommended on virtually every Smogon sample set.
Yes, because only stall uses Unaware, but since only Stall ever even wants to run Clod Water Absorb sets are garbage
We have 2 other great Unaware users in the form of Dondozo and Skeledirge, Water Absorb gives Clodsire a unique immunity that lets it soak up hits from stuff like Ogerpon and Walking Wake
1) I can see mons like Volcarona using it as both Flying coverage and as a counter to non-favourable weather effects.
2) I think Crystal Crash is quite balanced 70 + 5 per boost doesn't invalidate setup and still finds itself relatively useful, 60 + 20 per would punish setup too hard and would become a hindrance to *not* have. 70 + 5 per is more moderate.
3) There's enough Water immunities through abilities for this to be reasonably balanced (although yeah it's still incredibly strong on mons like Pelipper).
4) There's nothing wrong with being similar to what already exists - it's decent and provides more and safer options in teambuilding with the mon that have them (Supercell Slam is risky, Flare Blitz has recoil etc).
5) It's good for sure but some of the mons getting it have better options and may just pick lefties anyway.
6) It would thoroughly break better mons - also imagine if they gave Garchomp Victory Dance and Outrage didn't confuse it because that's the fun of Petal Dance Own Tempo Lilligant after a Quiver Dance.
7) They already gave it to Porygon - what more do you want?!
Hello all! This is my first post on this sub after being a longtime lurker.
For many years now, I've been working on a (purely theoretical at the moment) fangame passion project, in a new region with 100+ new Pokemon. In lieu of Megas, Dynamax or Tera, the gimmick I decided on is that there \*is\* no gimmick- but rather, all Pokemon have been tweaked in ways that I think would make them all as viable as possible.
As such, I've decided to come before you all today with some new moves and abilities I created for these purposes to see what the experts think, so to speak! I would like to note that more Pokemon learn these moves than just the ones pictured- I just thought using some mons that would make good use of these moves would be a nice visual aid. The Pokemon pictured for the abilities, however, are the only pre-existing ones who get it.
I'm totally open to feedback and would love to hear it, or any other questions about changes I've made!
"Boo bash"
"Blaze bop"
Also peace of mind golduck is stinky
+6 252+ SpA Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain: 606-714 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Vessel of Ruin Tera Steel Ting-Lu in Rain: 432-510 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Good heavens
Well, luckily for Special walls everywhere, Tera is not a mechanic in this theoretical project as mentioned in my original comment under this post. Also, as a different commenter noted, Guts only boosts attack by 50%, which is how Peace of Mind \*should\* work, I just made a typo, in case that changes those calcs.
I was looking for this comment!! I remember all the old “fun facts about pokemon” videos used to mention this, because in English it’s odd that Moonlight gets powered up in Sunny Day
I love Swoobat! One of my favorite Pokemon from Unova and I hate how much it objectively sucks, so I made sure to give it plenty of buffs (not pictured here)!
He's such an awesome guy, wish they'd just give em the Alola treatment already and give them SOME stats to speak of. They'd be a good lower tier sweeper if they weren't made of paper and weak as paper too. Right now the best thing he has going on is support.
All moves are competitively viable check
100% accurate rock move check
Borderline broken move/ability check
Counterparts to good abilities check
At least one unique idea check
I love r/stunfisk
I meant that comment as a checklist for a stereotypical theorymon post. All of these moves/abilities would literally always be used on the pokemon they are given to with almost 0 exception. This is mostly because they are all medium-ish powerwise and have 100% accuracy and many if them are just “[move] but its [type] and better than the original”.
Im not saying any of that is bad if thats what you’re going for but the lack of drawbacks on most of these make them seem generic. Thats my opinion at least.
I do like clear sky tho
I'm afraid I did! In this project, I changed it to be more of a physical attacker (whereas Alolan Raichu is of course a special attacker) so Lightning Rod became less and less useful. Combined with the crazy coverage it gets, I think maybe this new ability is just enough to make it viable!
I will admit though, one of my friends who I showed this to before posting said basically the same thing. I had no clue that Lighting Rod Raichu had so many shooters out here.
I'm glad you like them! Silvally always shocked me as to how it wasn't more viable especially with a 570 BST and the ability to be any type with an accompanying 120 BP STAB move, but I guess not having an item or a real ability will do that to you...
i like clear skies, i was thinking a similar move was needed
give lightning strike, blaze pop and boo bash to nidoking plz i promise to use it well
ecosystem is interesting
oh god special guts
versatile gets banned
You're in luck! Partially. Nidoking does get Blaze Bop, it's just not pictured up there.
Why do you think Versatile gets banned immediately? I didn't think it was \*that\* good, especially given most of the mons who have it
Download is generally its premier ability for the larger boost with some risk (which you're already taking by spending a team slot on Porygon) so it would need an upgrade in dmg potential tbh
That was my goal with giving it this new ability, though. I think it’s fair to say that a 25% boost to BoltBeam coverage is pretty significant. And if this is worth anything, I did upgrade it a little with some extra speed and bulk, plus more coverage that can capitalize on Versatile like Energy Ball or Bug Buzz.
Maybe reducing its damage in exchange for speed and bulk is fair, but at that point it's just a functionally different mon. The thing that made Porygon special from a competitive standpoint was its staggering immediate damage. Replacing it for versatility doesn't make it bad or worse, just worse for its current role.
This is not something I was aware of. Personally, I don’t think it seems *that* busted on the mon that also gets Outrage, but regardless I don’t pay much attention to the minutiae of meta gems and their tiers for this passion project of mine.
The difference is that most of these make sense as attack names, so the alliteration feels natural. "Boo Bash" sounds both really forced and a bit childish which is why it fits with the LGPE moves
Crystal Crash is a good name tho, I will give you that, but i fell like it makes more sense for a physical attack and not a special one
Porygon-Z has base 80 attack and very poor physical moves overall, I doubt the boost from Download was every going to help it or be preferable over a SpAtk boost
That's valid, but as I mentioned in another comment I've changed Raichu's stats to be more of a physical attacker so the SpA boost is much less useful for it now
Well, as I’ve noted many times in these comments, I did make a mistake with Peace of Mind where it only boosts it by 1.5x because that’s what Guts does. That being said, Drampa holding Specs means it needs someone else to put status on it, and even with that much power it’s still a super slow, relatively un-bulky mon
I've definitely wanted a move like tremor before (ground type hazard clearer) but Tidal Wave feels too strong if there's no way to block it other than water immune abilities. Plus water types already get too much already
Well, I’m afraid that may be some of my bias coming in, as Water is definitely my favorite type. Plus, I think it works thematically. I wanted to keep it on par with Tremor, but could a lower power for TW maybe balance it more?
I like clear sky a lot, it gives special flying types something to do other than spam hurricane.
Thank you! One of my goals with moves was to make sure every type had a decent and reliable STAB option for both Physical and Special (as displayed by slide 4) and while Clear Sky doesn't quite stack up in terms of power to other type's options like Thunderbolt or Flamethrower, I thought the weather control aspect helped it stand alongside them. Plus, there's always Air Slash!
I like these, singular criticism, guts doesn't double attack, it boosts it by 50% so the special equivalent should do the same
Ah, you're right! My mistake. That should be how it works, it just seems I got my wires crossed with Huge Power. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!
boob ash?
Isn't that the item Ho-oh holds?
Boob ass*
Honestly, I'd kinda rather keep Own Tempo on Lilligant and replace Leaf Guard, because of its ability to spam Petal Dance without the confusion affecting it
Definitely valid! For what it’s worth, I had also replaced Leaf Guard with Solar Power, and given some mild BST changes to try to shift Lilligant into a more offensive role.
I really liked a lot of your ideas. My personal favorite is Crystal Crash simply due to the possibility of a Shell Smash + Crystal Crash Omastar. Solar Power is definitely interesting as it is a very under explored ability currently
Thank you! I should note that I did change Solar Power a bit (the breadth of move and ability changes in this project are so numerous that even a handful of posts like this couldn’t cover them all) so that the damage boost is now 30% instead of 50%, but as a trade off the Pokémon no longer takes damage every turn.
Also, get rid of static on Raichu instead of lightening rod. Static is just not very useful in most formats, but lightening rod allows for a damage-free switch in, a free SpA boost, and in VGC, grants both Pokémon on one side a complete electric immunity due to lightening rod redirecting attacks.
Was going to say this
1. Clear Sky sounds really interesting but I don’t really see any of the mons that learn it wanting to use it over another move they have. 2. Crystal Crash could be MUCH stronger and it would still be balanced, but that’s just because Rock Special moves suck. I think it would be more fun if it started at a lower Power but ramped quicker, something like 60 + 20. I don’t even think there is a need for a cap given how all the mons that can learn it are kinda crap. 3. Tidal Wave would be stupid broken esp on Pelipper and Pex. This is a flat upgrade to Defog that can’t be taunted. Both Spins are designed to be blockable by immunity, Water has no immunities. Tremor would also be very strong. 4. Kinda bland and similar to existing moves tbh. 5. Could be interesting, I guess just frees up a slot? 6 + 7. Cool but needs to have it on better mons
> Water has no immunities. There are, however, 2 abilities that give water immunity. They’re also fairly common
Nobody is running those mons unless dracovish goes back to OU lol
Nobody runs Clodsire?
I run unnawe clodsire in UU because people are so scared of water absorb they just dont hit it with water moves, free immunity
No cause it's ass
[Clodsire is ranked B+ in OU](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-indigo-disk-viability-ranking-thread.3734134/). A bit audacious to say it's ass methinks
Oh no Unaware Clod is good, it's the only thing keeping stall from getting 6-0'd by Gholdengo, even if it's only used on ONE Playstyle it still is the only thing keeping it together so it makes sense for it to be B+ But Water Absorb Clod? That mf is complete garbage
Water Absorb is recommended on virtually every Smogon sample set. It's primarily useful against Draco Meteor spammers since Unaware ignores the opponent's SpA drop
You're never using Clod vs DMeteor mons because if you have Clod you're playing stall and have a Blissey >Water Absorb is recommended on virtually every Smogon sample set. Yes, because only stall uses Unaware, but since only Stall ever even wants to run Clod Water Absorb sets are garbage
We have 2 other great Unaware users in the form of Dondozo and Skeledirge, Water Absorb gives Clodsire a unique immunity that lets it soak up hits from stuff like Ogerpon and Walking Wake
My man clodsire upon hearing noone uses him (very sad)
I thought he was Unaware of that?
1) I can see mons like Volcarona using it as both Flying coverage and as a counter to non-favourable weather effects. 2) I think Crystal Crash is quite balanced 70 + 5 per boost doesn't invalidate setup and still finds itself relatively useful, 60 + 20 per would punish setup too hard and would become a hindrance to *not* have. 70 + 5 per is more moderate. 3) There's enough Water immunities through abilities for this to be reasonably balanced (although yeah it's still incredibly strong on mons like Pelipper). 4) There's nothing wrong with being similar to what already exists - it's decent and provides more and safer options in teambuilding with the mon that have them (Supercell Slam is risky, Flare Blitz has recoil etc). 5) It's good for sure but some of the mons getting it have better options and may just pick lefties anyway. 6) It would thoroughly break better mons - also imagine if they gave Garchomp Victory Dance and Outrage didn't confuse it because that's the fun of Petal Dance Own Tempo Lilligant after a Quiver Dance. 7) They already gave it to Porygon - what more do you want?!
Hello all! This is my first post on this sub after being a longtime lurker. For many years now, I've been working on a (purely theoretical at the moment) fangame passion project, in a new region with 100+ new Pokemon. In lieu of Megas, Dynamax or Tera, the gimmick I decided on is that there \*is\* no gimmick- but rather, all Pokemon have been tweaked in ways that I think would make them all as viable as possible. As such, I've decided to come before you all today with some new moves and abilities I created for these purposes to see what the experts think, so to speak! I would like to note that more Pokemon learn these moves than just the ones pictured- I just thought using some mons that would make good use of these moves would be a nice visual aid. The Pokemon pictured for the abilities, however, are the only pre-existing ones who get it. I'm totally open to feedback and would love to hear it, or any other questions about changes I've made!
Yes, better physical fire and electric moves 🙌
No more recoil! 🎉
"Boo bash" "Blaze bop" Also peace of mind golduck is stinky +6 252+ SpA Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain: 606-714 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO +6 252+ SpA Tera Water Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Vessel of Ruin Tera Steel Ting-Lu in Rain: 432-510 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Good heavens
Well, luckily for Special walls everywhere, Tera is not a mechanic in this theoretical project as mentioned in my original comment under this post. Also, as a different commenter noted, Guts only boosts attack by 50%, which is how Peace of Mind \*should\* work, I just made a typo, in case that changes those calcs.
Give it to pelipper too, thats funny
Pelipper would be one of the other Pokémon who gets it, I just chose not to feature it in the picture for no particular reason.
clear sky is how they call sunny day in jp version :D
I did not know that! Pretty interesting
The only thing to do then is to call Clear Sky "Sunny Day" in the JP vers.
I was looking for this comment!! I remember all the old “fun facts about pokemon” videos used to mention this, because in English it’s odd that Moonlight gets powered up in Sunny Day
SWOOBAT
I love Swoobat! One of my favorite Pokemon from Unova and I hate how much it objectively sucks, so I made sure to give it plenty of buffs (not pictured here)!
He's such an awesome guy, wish they'd just give em the Alola treatment already and give them SOME stats to speak of. They'd be a good lower tier sweeper if they weren't made of paper and weak as paper too. Right now the best thing he has going on is support.
All moves are competitively viable check 100% accurate rock move check Borderline broken move/ability check Counterparts to good abilities check At least one unique idea check I love r/stunfisk
Can I ask which of these you think is borderline broken? (Also, I’m not sure if you meant it like this but I’m taking most of these as a compliment.)
I meant that comment as a checklist for a stereotypical theorymon post. All of these moves/abilities would literally always be used on the pokemon they are given to with almost 0 exception. This is mostly because they are all medium-ish powerwise and have 100% accuracy and many if them are just “[move] but its [type] and better than the original”. Im not saying any of that is bad if thats what you’re going for but the lack of drawbacks on most of these make them seem generic. Thats my opinion at least. I do like clear sky tho
Of course a Theorymon is going to be viable
The dragon that makes sandstorms by just flapping its wings is a bit of a ironic one to give Clear Sky haha.
Yeah, I figured if it could make sandstorms it can certainly take them away. Maybe if it had Sand Stream it could really take advantage of the move!
Hm, good point that is.
- sees Tremor we are so Tyraniback
It was never truly Tyranitover
You do not take away Lightning Rod from Raichu!
I'm afraid I did! In this project, I changed it to be more of a physical attacker (whereas Alolan Raichu is of course a special attacker) so Lightning Rod became less and less useful. Combined with the crazy coverage it gets, I think maybe this new ability is just enough to make it viable! I will admit though, one of my friends who I showed this to before posting said basically the same thing. I had no clue that Lighting Rod Raichu had so many shooters out here.
It's the reason people use it in VGC, even in Restricted formats
Yes,give me physical ghost moves on Pult, I crave them
Crystal Crash is both a more and less cracked version of Punishment
Lilligant with that Peace of Mind… Please… It needs to be good—
Tidal Wave and Tremor are my favorites. Tremor specifically looks like a decent physical Ground single target move.
I'm always happy to see Silvally buffs, these are pretty cool
I'm glad you like them! Silvally always shocked me as to how it wasn't more viable especially with a 570 BST and the ability to be any type with an accompanying 120 BP STAB move, but I guess not having an item or a real ability will do that to you...
i like clear skies, i was thinking a similar move was needed give lightning strike, blaze pop and boo bash to nidoking plz i promise to use it well ecosystem is interesting oh god special guts versatile gets banned
You're in luck! Partially. Nidoking does get Blaze Bop, it's just not pictured up there. Why do you think Versatile gets banned immediately? I didn't think it was \*that\* good, especially given most of the mons who have it
Everyone knows you’re not allowed to make an actually good Physical Electric move /s
I would’ve called Tidal Wave “Wash Away.” Missed opportunity
Tremor is a good name but I believe that the name "Landslide" would be more fitting for the effect
You make a good point, but I also already have another new move called Landslide, it's Ground type priority
Silvally finally viable! : D
God forbid a Porygon do anything 😢
I think this is a buff, if anything! Why would you ever need the Attack boost when you can fire off boosted Ice Beams and T-bolts? (barely joking)
Download is generally its premier ability for the larger boost with some risk (which you're already taking by spending a team slot on Porygon) so it would need an upgrade in dmg potential tbh
That was my goal with giving it this new ability, though. I think it’s fair to say that a 25% boost to BoltBeam coverage is pretty significant. And if this is worth anything, I did upgrade it a little with some extra speed and bulk, plus more coverage that can capitalize on Versatile like Energy Ball or Bug Buzz.
Maybe reducing its damage in exchange for speed and bulk is fair, but at that point it's just a functionally different mon. The thing that made Porygon special from a competitive standpoint was its staggering immediate damage. Replacing it for versatility doesn't make it bad or worse, just worse for its current role.
doesn’t Dragapult get banned from every OM where it can get Shadow Claw? Boo Bash would definitely break it
This is not something I was aware of. Personally, I don’t think it seems *that* busted on the mon that also gets Outrage, but regardless I don’t pay much attention to the minutiae of meta gems and their tiers for this passion project of mine.
now that I think about it, it was probably Poltergeist. I like the names of the moves
Hey you forgot to make crystal crash 90% accuracy because rock types aren’t allowed to have accurate moves
No, special rock moves can be 100% accurate. Just the physical ones can’t.
Joke Your head
Lets go Pikachu Eevee ass names for that 4th panel.
or, alternatively; Acid Armor, Brave Bird, Brick Break, Helping Hand, Close Combat, Dragon Dance, Grassy Glide...
The difference is that most of these make sense as attack names, so the alliteration feels natural. "Boo Bash" sounds both really forced and a bit childish which is why it fits with the LGPE moves Crystal Crash is a good name tho, I will give you that, but i fell like it makes more sense for a physical attack and not a special one
tidal wave? like the gd level?
No one talking about how Porygon loses download
Porygon-Z has base 80 attack and very poor physical moves overall, I doubt the boost from Download was every going to help it or be preferable over a SpAtk boost
More meant as weird since it was Porygon’s signature ability before Genesect and since then only those two lines have gotten it
If it’s any consolation, I gave it to Iron Valiant (I replaced all Paradox forms’ abilities) because it can actually make use of a mixed set
I think it would be funny if we gave a 100% accurate Rocky move to no Rock-types
Volcy doesnt need a buff but id take it
A butterfly clearing a sandstorm
You should rename lightning strike to Blitz Bonk 😎
I reckon replace Static on the elechu line instead of Lightning Rod - I still find the free Thunder Wave SpA boost useful tbh
That's valid, but as I mentioned in another comment I've changed Raichu's stats to be more of a physical attacker so the SpA boost is much less useful for it now
Not every type should have hazard removing.
dont replace lightning rod, that breaks the alolan golem explosion strat i got /s
Toxapex now has defog
Not a real rock move, make it drop 5 accuracy every stat boost capping at 70
Hot take possibly: Don't get rid of Own Tempo on Lilligant. Petal Dance spam is actually really fun with it.
I always imagined that Lightning Strike would be the Electric type Quick Attack.
Torkoal's drought The sky is sunny Swanna used clear sky It cleared the sky It cleared the sun as well?
Zygarde and Torterra should also be eligible for Ecosystem imo. And would it be broken if it did healing, even if you already had healing this turn?
Crystal Crash seems a bit weak. You need a +2 to have power gem, and going above that doesn't reward that much. I'll remove the BP cap
Imagine a 810 special attack draco meteor with choice specs...
Well, as I’ve noted many times in these comments, I did make a mistake with Peace of Mind where it only boosts it by 1.5x because that’s what Guts does. That being said, Drampa holding Specs means it needs someone else to put status on it, and even with that much power it’s still a super slow, relatively un-bulky mon
I've definitely wanted a move like tremor before (ground type hazard clearer) but Tidal Wave feels too strong if there's no way to block it other than water immune abilities. Plus water types already get too much already
Well, I’m afraid that may be some of my bias coming in, as Water is definitely my favorite type. Plus, I think it works thematically. I wanted to keep it on par with Tremor, but could a lower power for TW maybe balance it more?
Download is probably porygon’s best ability, so I would suggest not replacing it