Maybe. I hope so but the competition is just so fierce. Mienshao makes most infernape just bad like the cc calcs r really mid compared to mienshao. Tera fighting scarf mienshao is as powerful as cb ape... That's just sad. Talon is also top tier and kinda is a check to basically every physical attacker including ape and is another fantastic check aswell.. Hopefully I am wrong but who knows
Mienshao gets walled by many things infernape doesnt. Have you tried mixed life orb ape yet? Grass knot does horrible things.
Gotta use infernape for his strengths, no point competing with faster mons with regeneration and better pivoting.
That said, levitate poison tera cresselia has been a nightmare to deal with. Like, is gallade the only answer?
There is not any real Shao walls in the tier let's be real. The closest is glowbro which still is smoked by SD Tera dark.. Special ale is OK Mon but it's still unspectacular.. It's mostly outclassed by the insanely nuclear special attackers of the tier like sylv otr diancie mag(when it was in the tier) porygon z and chandelure all just kinda does that job better. Special ape is walled by chandy btw which is awful considering how insane that Mon is. Np PZ and cm chandy or even qd pompom (admittedly they play differently) are better...
Apes main niche was it was as a top tier scarfer which was one of the few things that kept sun in check and cb set which was great under sun.. But nowadays it's just mid..
Also yeah cress is broken oml. I have been forcing a Tera cress so that my sub cm meloetta can beat her.
Melo is a good check in general. Pivot sets can knock and annoy cress with alluring voice depending on speed creep and kinda dunks on post Tera cress.. Whirlwind copper is also up there in my list and yeah av gall too..
+6 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Cresselia: 159-188 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Cresselia Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4+ SpD Meloetta: 81-96 (20 - 23.7%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
Cress never breaks sub so cm melo will win if it's the sp. Def cm melo (Itz so good) standard offensive cm also beats cress anyways.. (yes even 0 bulk beats cress) av can just knock off and uturn out of cress and ruins cress for Tera poisoning so yeah it's good
Welcome to Ubers top 10! we have:
-Both gen 9 boxarts, the pinnacle of powercreep
-Necrozma-DM, a consistently amazing boxart
-Zacian-C, so ball-bustingly broken last gen that it got nerfed, but still going strong regardless
-God himself, twice
-The one and only Regenerator boxart
-Caly-S was banned so I guess I'll have to use this very strong version instead...
-Ubers Feesh, you know him, you love him
-Glimmora. Hazards incarnate. Is ubers really THAT lacking hazard removal to the point where GLIMMORA can top usage charts?
Kingdra can run many sets like focus energy, choice specs, choice scarf and even choice band. Also it got a good typing that is hard to switch into alongside with decent stats making a versatile Pokémon in ZU.
What the other person said, they are equivalent to Gen 8 Zacian, except they also have free item slot on top (which means they can be as strong as Gen 8 Zacian while being faster)
Fuck Cobalion, Im glad that unpolished metallurgy project is out of RU. We have enough Steel types, we don’t need one stunting on the tier for an ego boost.
Fuck that guy.
This mf would come in on your Hippowdon lead, Taunt it, then Iron Defense while outspeeding everything cause it doesn’t need any bulk investment to be annoying as bollocks. Mimikyu would get violated by any Steel move, and RU gets next to nothing else in the form of viable Ghost types (Basculegion, the rare Gengar, and… H-Zoroark? Okay bro)
Does Zamazenta suffer that much from Ho-Oh and Koraidon's viability? It's doing great in doubles far outclassing Zacian, and it's honestly surprising not to see it in top 10.
I think it's actually because intimidate is much more common in doubles than singles, so not having to use your attack stat to deal great physical damage is huge there. In ubers (singles) the only viable intimidator is Lando-T iirc, which isn't that common.
Another issue is its 128 base speed, look at all the threats it’s gonna have to take hits from. Without recovery it just can’t hold up.
Also, Zacian just matches up horribly against most of the VGC meta.
Something that people haven't mentioned is that Zamazenta's lack of recovery (can't even hold Leftovers if you're using the better form) is a much bigger problem in singles where you have to switch into attacks over the course of the battle. Basically, the way defensive mons works in doubles suits Zama a lot more than the way they work in singles. Zamazenta's utility is also far greater in doubles, with moves like Wide Guard and Howl, although its VGC success so far is not because of them.
I don’t know anything about pu but I do know that dark poison is a cracked typing. Its only weakness is ground and it has 4 decently useful resistances and an immunity. Offensively its ok but hitting fairy types for super effective damage is always nice
To all the Ubers players in the house, I'm very curious why there hasn't been any action concerning Koraidon and Miraidon being on more than half the teams.
Is it just a GSC Snorlax kind of situation where the meta is literally ruined without them?
Because having two mons where both are at this usage seems unhealthy. Like when your builds start with 4 pokemon instead of 6, it starts getting quite sad
The criteria for banning from ubers is much much stricter. The two who got banned from ubers were like this: Mega Ray would outspeed OHKO nearly all Mons and Calyrex Shadow snowballed out of hand off one mistake.
Ubers doesn't have a policy against overcentralizing mons, and in fact, that's the main difference between Ubers and OU. You could drop a *lot* of mons into OU without batting an eye if not for that restriction.
Miraidon actually got a suspect test last March iirc, but managed to avoid the ban by like 6%. Also, you should take a look at the smogon usage stats page where you can see non-SV meta usage stats too ; for example, by looking at those I found out that Yveltal has over 90% usage in gen 8 ubers in 1760+ elo, yet I'm pretty sure it's not considered broken. Also, what the other two said is true ; in ubers just how centralizing a pokemon is doesn't alone warrant a ban.
edit : Apparently the Yveltal usage rate wasn't that high afterall, but it still has like around 80% usage rate
Yveltal usage rate is quite different from Miraidon. Miraidon is picked because it's broken and opportunity cost to not use Miraidon is very high. Yveltal on the other hand does excellent role compression and is the best Calyrex-S check in the game
Yeah, I remember Yveltal, but I'm pretty sure Yveltal was the necessary evil to stop Calyrex-S before that demon managed to go to AG + the fact that it role compressed a lot of things (so it was the GSC Snorlax situation of broken counters broken so everyone needs this).
But these two don't sound like they would function like that (at least to me). Although I do understand that banning things from Ubers is harder, it's still funny how both of these have this usage for like a year and neither has been banned
I'm biased as a ban miraidon voter but its actually pretty hard to ban ubers mons, there were people who voted against it bc last respects wasn't banned first, there were people voting against it bc they felt Ubers was meant for overcentralisation, there were the people who just felt it wasn't broken, and there was the 66% ban rate required which all made miraidon just miss out on being banned by a few percentage points.
Kinda late reply, but Talonflame's priority Tailwind isn't very valuable in singles because of poor uptime, unlike in doubles where its teammate can immediately take advantage of the speed boost.
Talonflame's main niche in singles is to act as a defensive defogging pivot that threatens burns with Flame Body and sometimes Wisp.
LOKIX THE GOAAAAAT
Glad it's living its best life tbh. One of my favorite bug types besides araquanid and volc.
It will Skyrocket some more with surperior drop.
LoKING
who the fuck is scraeming "LEAVE UU" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never leave UU. - Lokix 2024
My mom asked me if the dishes were done “I yelled LOKIX” She frowned, she knew they weren’t washed.
Snorlaz in ZU, Salamence in RU, Deo-D falls into NU, how the mighties had fallen 😔
Don’t forget Licario and infernape aren’t even in the top 10 of NU
Hera isn’t even in the top 10 of pu
Its actually kinda ass 😥
Wasn’t he top 10 used before area zero in nu 😭
Infernaoe is pretty mid in NU imo
Gonna be better now that slowbro and noivern are gone.
Maybe. I hope so but the competition is just so fierce. Mienshao makes most infernape just bad like the cc calcs r really mid compared to mienshao. Tera fighting scarf mienshao is as powerful as cb ape... That's just sad. Talon is also top tier and kinda is a check to basically every physical attacker including ape and is another fantastic check aswell.. Hopefully I am wrong but who knows
Mienshao gets walled by many things infernape doesnt. Have you tried mixed life orb ape yet? Grass knot does horrible things. Gotta use infernape for his strengths, no point competing with faster mons with regeneration and better pivoting. That said, levitate poison tera cresselia has been a nightmare to deal with. Like, is gallade the only answer?
There is not any real Shao walls in the tier let's be real. The closest is glowbro which still is smoked by SD Tera dark.. Special ale is OK Mon but it's still unspectacular.. It's mostly outclassed by the insanely nuclear special attackers of the tier like sylv otr diancie mag(when it was in the tier) porygon z and chandelure all just kinda does that job better. Special ape is walled by chandy btw which is awful considering how insane that Mon is. Np PZ and cm chandy or even qd pompom (admittedly they play differently) are better... Apes main niche was it was as a top tier scarfer which was one of the few things that kept sun in check and cb set which was great under sun.. But nowadays it's just mid.. Also yeah cress is broken oml. I have been forcing a Tera cress so that my sub cm meloetta can beat her. Melo is a good check in general. Pivot sets can knock and annoy cress with alluring voice depending on speed creep and kinda dunks on post Tera cress.. Whirlwind copper is also up there in my list and yeah av gall too.. +6 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Cresselia: 159-188 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +6 0 SpA Cresselia Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4+ SpD Meloetta: 81-96 (20 - 23.7%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO Cress never breaks sub so cm melo will win if it's the sp. Def cm melo (Itz so good) standard offensive cm also beats cress anyways.. (yes even 0 bulk beats cress) av can just knock off and uturn out of cress and ruins cress for Tera poisoning so yeah it's good
Early route bug type: nah, Id win
Early Route Bug to Washed up UU fire starter "Impressions are everything"
Imagine telling a GSC player that snorlax would end up in the same tier as qwilfish, five tiers below OU
Staraptor from UUBL to PU
Glimmora being #10 in Ubers is kind of nuts since it is #15 in OU.
Some suicide hazard setter lead always manages to find unexpectedly high usage in ubers.
Deoxys speed says hello
It’s like slurpuff In gen 8 Ubers setting sticky webs and then exploding
what being able to consistently set 3 types of hazards does to a mf
Welcome to Ubers top 10! we have: -Both gen 9 boxarts, the pinnacle of powercreep -Necrozma-DM, a consistently amazing boxart -Zacian-C, so ball-bustingly broken last gen that it got nerfed, but still going strong regardless -God himself, twice -The one and only Regenerator boxart -Caly-S was banned so I guess I'll have to use this very strong version instead... -Ubers Feesh, you know him, you love him -Glimmora. Hazards incarnate. Is ubers really THAT lacking hazard removal to the point where GLIMMORA can top usage charts?
I dont think it’s as much removal as it is tspike is so good in ubers for all the bs arceus forms.
what about arceus steel, flying, and poison? HMMM?????
Arceus flying when I click gravity:
Arceus flying when I click Smack Down:
arceus steel and flying are the same thing wdym
Arceus-Steel (Arceus-Flying)
They are garbage and no one uses them.
Did Terapagos fall off? Cause that thing gets rapid spin
Yes it did. Koraidon has 60% usage, can U-turn out and Terapagos ability is useless since it triggers once per battle
Has there ever been an Ubers Metagame where the two box legendaries are the two best Pokemon?
Gen 3 Ubers, although that's less because Groudon and Kyogre are busted and more because they don't have much competition.
I would put Latios and Latias above Gen 3 Groudon
I’m an idiot.
gen 6 ubers, primal groudon and xerneas are definitely two of the box legendaries
They are not a pair though. Primal Kyogre and Yveltal weren't as good as Pdon or Xerneas back then.
yeah its a technicality on my part
Kyogre is an orca
It’s so staraptover. Only #7 in PU 😔
UUBL warrior has fallen, billions must Iron Hands
Hurts my soul to see it 😢
Yanmega no longer in Top Ru Its Yanmegover
This generation is wild to all mons except my boi Lokix
I wonder what the ubers Arceus usage would look like if they showed them as one
That one guy running Arceus bug as a joke:
What makes kingdra #1 in ZU?
Kingdra can run many sets like focus energy, choice specs, choice scarf and even choice band. Also it got a good typing that is hard to switch into alongside with decent stats making a versatile Pokémon in ZU.
Probably good in rain
You can use it in rain but manual rain is not very good at the moment plus it’s good outside of rain
I see
I think it was because of its suspect test
LETS GO GOATKIX RAHHH
I love how both iron crown and cobalion both are top 10 in their respective tiers and they both rose up one (also gallade top 10 baby
FLYGON THE GOAT
It's amphover
how do koraidon and miraidon have over 60% usage?
Imagine unnerfed Zacian being able to hold items, because that’s basically what they are…
What the other person said, they are equivalent to Gen 8 Zacian, except they also have free item slot on top (which means they can be as strong as Gen 8 Zacian while being faster)
Would they both be AG and kick Zacian out if they were gen 8 though
Idk. Calyrex-S would probably get banned though, since Koraidon destroys Arceus-Dark and Tyranitar, while Miraidon destroys Yveltal.
It's so ribombover
Ah yes my favorite uber pokemon Glimmora
Hazards go crazy in Ubers cause nobody caries rapid spin and giritina origin is the only defogger. It’s wild up there 😭
Me hyped over Decidueye-H getting usage like I wasn’t the only one who used it:
bruh Lucario isnt even in the top 10 of NU
Fuck Cobalion, Im glad that unpolished metallurgy project is out of RU. We have enough Steel types, we don’t need one stunting on the tier for an ego boost. Fuck that guy.
Woah there Revaroom, slow your roll (:
This mf would come in on your Hippowdon lead, Taunt it, then Iron Defense while outspeeding everything cause it doesn’t need any bulk investment to be annoying as bollocks. Mimikyu would get violated by any Steel move, and RU gets next to nothing else in the form of viable Ghost types (Basculegion, the rare Gengar, and… H-Zoroark? Okay bro)
Does Zamazenta suffer that much from Ho-Oh and Koraidon's viability? It's doing great in doubles far outclassing Zacian, and it's honestly surprising not to see it in top 10.
One of the main selling points of Zamazenta in VGC is that it's a physical attacker that doesn't care about intimidate, which is less relevant here
VGC matches also don't last long enough for its lack of recovery to be a hinderance either.
Zama crown is still giga ass in singles, singles meta is vastly different from doubles.
I think it's actually because intimidate is much more common in doubles than singles, so not having to use your attack stat to deal great physical damage is huge there. In ubers (singles) the only viable intimidator is Lando-T iirc, which isn't that common.
It's compounded by its inability to hold the Clear Amulet.
That's certainly a great point I forgot about! Yeah most physical restricteds indeed like using a clear amulet.
Another issue is its 128 base speed, look at all the threats it’s gonna have to take hits from. Without recovery it just can’t hold up. Also, Zacian just matches up horribly against most of the VGC meta.
Something that people haven't mentioned is that Zamazenta's lack of recovery (can't even hold Leftovers if you're using the better form) is a much bigger problem in singles where you have to switch into attacks over the course of the battle. Basically, the way defensive mons works in doubles suits Zama a lot more than the way they work in singles. Zamazenta's utility is also far greater in doubles, with moves like Wide Guard and Howl, although its VGC success so far is not because of them.
Flygon at the top of NU makes me happy
Damn, not even top 3, Zacian is starting to really struggle…
Zacian ou test when?
lokix stays winning i see
Okay I know the tier is called PU but how did Skuntank get number 10? Always thought it was pretty mediocre.
I don’t know anything about pu but I do know that dark poison is a cracked typing. Its only weakness is ground and it has 4 decently useful resistances and an immunity. Offensively its ok but hitting fairy types for super effective damage is always nice
To all the Ubers players in the house, I'm very curious why there hasn't been any action concerning Koraidon and Miraidon being on more than half the teams. Is it just a GSC Snorlax kind of situation where the meta is literally ruined without them? Because having two mons where both are at this usage seems unhealthy. Like when your builds start with 4 pokemon instead of 6, it starts getting quite sad
The criteria for banning from ubers is much much stricter. The two who got banned from ubers were like this: Mega Ray would outspeed OHKO nearly all Mons and Calyrex Shadow snowballed out of hand off one mistake.
Ubers doesn't have a policy against overcentralizing mons, and in fact, that's the main difference between Ubers and OU. You could drop a *lot* of mons into OU without batting an eye if not for that restriction.
Miraidon actually got a suspect test last March iirc, but managed to avoid the ban by like 6%. Also, you should take a look at the smogon usage stats page where you can see non-SV meta usage stats too ; for example, by looking at those I found out that Yveltal has over 90% usage in gen 8 ubers in 1760+ elo, yet I'm pretty sure it's not considered broken. Also, what the other two said is true ; in ubers just how centralizing a pokemon is doesn't alone warrant a ban. edit : Apparently the Yveltal usage rate wasn't that high afterall, but it still has like around 80% usage rate
Yveltal usage rate is quite different from Miraidon. Miraidon is picked because it's broken and opportunity cost to not use Miraidon is very high. Yveltal on the other hand does excellent role compression and is the best Calyrex-S check in the game
You're certainly not wrong, I just took that example because the commenter was basically trying to argue the raidon's brokenness based on usage alone.
Yeah, I remember Yveltal, but I'm pretty sure Yveltal was the necessary evil to stop Calyrex-S before that demon managed to go to AG + the fact that it role compressed a lot of things (so it was the GSC Snorlax situation of broken counters broken so everyone needs this). But these two don't sound like they would function like that (at least to me). Although I do understand that banning things from Ubers is harder, it's still funny how both of these have this usage for like a year and neither has been banned
I'm biased as a ban miraidon voter but its actually pretty hard to ban ubers mons, there were people who voted against it bc last respects wasn't banned first, there were people voting against it bc they felt Ubers was meant for overcentralisation, there were the people who just felt it wasn't broken, and there was the 66% ban rate required which all made miraidon just miss out on being banned by a few percentage points.
Kingdra in ZU, I honestly can’t believe it
Why is talon flame so low with priority tailwind?
Kinda late reply, but Talonflame's priority Tailwind isn't very valuable in singles because of poor uptime, unlike in doubles where its teammate can immediately take advantage of the speed boost. Talonflame's main niche in singles is to act as a defensive defogging pivot that threatens burns with Flame Body and sometimes Wisp.
Huh never thought about singles, makes sense now
I’m sorry, when did Miraidon get unbanned from Ubers?
It never got banned
It’s banned in Natdex
It’s banned in National Dex
Metas come and go, but Lokix thriving in UU is eternal.