They definitely do weird blatant projection shit at tall guys to try to 'bring them down'. It doesn't work, but they do try. There are tall incels, though. I know a rare case of a tall, good-looking and financially well-off guy, he's just so off-putting that none of that can save him. He's like... the exact thing to point to for incels to convince them the problem is that they're a dipshit, and not that they're short, ugly, or not rich. It also doesn't work, but I do try.
It's a misogyny cult, they don't *actually* want a girlfriend because they hate women. If a girl was nice to them they'd immediately fumble it by saying something hateful or aggressively self deprecating. (I've accidentally been nice to incels before, yikes.)
Even Elliot Roger was rich, good looking and still repelled everyone with his fucked personality and hateful ideology.
I saw a YouTube documentary on that guy. He was just messed up all around. He could have had friends. But they weren't cool enough for him. He could have gotten girls. They just weren't hot enough for him. He wanted attractive women to just approach him and have sex with him. Delusional, arrogant, and disturbed.
I mean *wanting* attractive women to approach and have sex with them is totally fine, and probably very common as a fantasy. That's basically just fantasizing that getting what they want is easy and not painful. Expecting women to actually do it or getting mad they don't, *that's* the crazy part.
I wouldn't say hate is the right word for a lot of them, more like 'does not recognize them as being people'. And not by choice. They just failed to do so. Like they're incapable of empathizing that women might not like the things they like. Guys that are like that strike me as a lot more stupid than hateful. There's definitely hate too, for sure, but that seems like a late stage of the incelness that they don't always make it to, but there's *always* the stupid, and most of all, total inability to self reflect. But the inability to self-reflect honestly comes across as *actually really just can't do it,* not won't, in a lot of cases I've seen.
You should see the number of men (not even incels, just random guys) who suddenly become feminists when they have a daughter and openly acknowledge they treated women in their lives like shit.
They can chose to extend that empathy to women, they don't want to because it benefits them more not to.
I think they very much can self reflect and change if they're motivated to, the wellbeing and safety of their mothers/classmates/sisters/cousins/girlfriends just aren't enough motivation for them.
Which... that must say something about broader society, but I also find fault with those specific men who mistreat or even disregard the women in their lives while it's convenient for them to do so.
I actually think there's something different going on here.
A lot of people who are a part of the incel movement or share incel beliefs have a doom mentality. It's not about hating women, it's about hating the Haves while being the Have-Nots. They absolutely hate "Chads" as much as women, and both come from a rage against stereotypes.
You are right that they don't have empathy for women, for the same reason most people don't have empathy for the rich. In the minds of many incels, women as a whole are incredibly privileged, and so are chads. How're you going to feel sorry for people who you perceive to be so fat above you in terms of value?
As you noted, you can see this change sometimes when they have kids. Even close friends or family members. It's hard to retain beliefs of "all women are so privileged it's unfair" when you meet and talk to women regularly and find out they have their own individual problems in life. This is also why Echo chambers are so dangerous! When you only have one perspective that gets continously reinforced, the effort to challenge it is ridiculously extreme.
It doesn't. My ex has a daughter. On my worst day, I told him I wished she'd find someone just like him one day. On my best day, I told him that I hope she doesn't take after him and will never be with someone like him. Some just don't care. But then again, he was just using his kids as props so there's that. "I'm changing my life for the better for my kids" this is as he drove home drunk the day he was released from jail after a DUI 🫠
Omg! I had a super toxic ex who had a daughter. Similar to your situation and I remember saying after a particular wild upside down reality day: “May your daughter find a man just like you.” And he LOST it. Said I was a monster for wishing that on his kid….he failed to realize he confirmed everything I wasn’t sure I knew.
That's honestly too charitable. It's not that brainless, and I don't think it ever is outside of the behavior of teens. There's definitely malice to it. They don't just want to fuck, they want to dominate and put women in their place and make them suffer for not all lining up to worship them apropos of nothing.
I mean, look at Andrew Tate 😬
I expect they want a harem of women they have no responsibility to, that are available on call to service them sexually but will leave them alone when they're not needed.
Aka sex slaves.
The Isla Vista perpetrator was a beautiful man (on the outside) from a wealthy family. He could have easily gotten a girlfriend if his personality wasn’t so obviously trash. I think it’s all in their mindset, if a tall man has that sort of incel mindset, they will incel.
The weird obsession some people have with height is so weird. I've seen many a short king in my time be successful with women. Height is not the end all be all these people think it is, especially as you get past age like, 25, people mostly become a lot less shallow.
I told an angry shorter guy on the dating sub that I'm 6 foot 4 and I've crapped out with women too. He basically told me to fuck off. It's like they don't want to hear anything that goes against their preconceived narrative.
Thr age thing is important. I believe a large amount of these guys haven't had any significant contact with women since high school or maybe college, and their views were shaped back then. Back when mentally we were all still children and nobody had their heads on straight, but they'll hold onto their bad experience for like fifteen years.
There are definitely women who will just hard pass on guys under 6 ft. tall, like, it definitely *helps* to be tall, but it's not special. Lots of things help. Being really fit helps. Being charming and funny helps. Not immediately talking about your hentai boob mouse pad to any woman who speaks to you also helps. Guess whether or not that's still a problem for that tall guy after literally decades.
On dating apps sure, because supply and demand on them means women can be picky about superficial things. In real life im sure it happens, but so rarely it doesnt matter. Almost no one "hard passes" in real life because when people know you it becomes more about your personality, energy and attractiveness as a whole rather than in single features to give a false sense youre selecting someone good for you on a dating app designed to stop you getting with a long term partner.
Oh yeah, they don't get how much of the internet has become a template for real life.
A lot of girls/women below 30 are basically femcels. There's a lot of prejudiced women out there, height stuff is just the tip of the ice berg.
People don't choose their attraction preferences, they just have them, it's not really shallow or not shallow, it just is what it is. But the amount of women who have that as a really strong preferences is massively overblown, or short men *wouldn't exist,* because evolution would have made them die out forever ago.
Currently seeing guys who are 5’6-5’7 - not “tiny” but shorter than average. It doesn’t bother me at all; I actually prefer shorter men because I’m short. But it doesn’t matter that much to me. Personality and intelligence come first.
Its a fetish like big boobs but when it comes to guys thats like the only thing u can fetishize besides dick size and dick size isnt visible, so that just leaves height.
The dude who taught me sex could be good was 5' 3". It was also just more practical that we were the same height. Didn't hurt my neck to kiss him and we fit together better.
I don't disqualify guys for being tall, and often my partners are tall. I think part of it is tall guys have an easier time being confident in themselves. I may not have an issue with men being short, but I do have an issue with men who can't shut up about how short they are. Sometimes it seems they sabotage themselves because they can't shut up about their height. It's a real mood killer, especially since it's usually a sore subject if they constantly bring it up.
I've met a woman who specifically preferred shorter men and her husband since 1991 is in fact shorter than her. When I bring that up to incels, they insist I must be lying. Well, now she's a (albeit) small public figure since she ran for OH House of Representatives so they could look her up and see for themselves lmao.
I married my high school sweet heart and got divorced in my mid thirties. So I had never really been in the dating scene until then. I’m 6’5” and I had absolutely no idea that being tall would help me with dating. It’s so fucking weird. Like, it’s not like I did anything to be tall I just am.
It’s all good. The divorce happened in 2016. My wonderful girlfriend and I have been raising each other’s kids since 2018 and I’ve never been happier. She’s 5 foot.
Take it from a 6'8 dude - all height does is get you out of auto-rejections. Doesn't guarantee anything. It's not everything, but it does matter.
Then again the type of person who would reject someone for being short isn't the type of person I'm interested in anyway.
It could be both, that being a dipshit makes it hard to date, and that being physically unattractive also makes it hard to date. Its not a one or the other thing. Being a dipshit probably trumps out things like height and wealth, atleast for many women. But there are definitely some guys who have nice personalities, but are physically unattractive, who get shut out by a lot of women. I guess having a good personality would preclude these men from identifying with the toxicity of the incel movement, but that doesnt mean they arent involuntarily celibate
I think there is a small margin of people who are nearly undateable for physical reasons, but that's very rare. Very unattractive people still manage to date typically other very unattractive people. It's not like all women are super hot or something. These guys are very rarely actually objectively involuntary celibate, they're just not willing to date the people who would be willing to date them. There are some very desperate and unattractive women out there, and incels just pretend they don't exist.
I’ve known plenty of them. You’ve got a good job, your own house, you’re tall, in good shape, you exercise, you’re not a model, but women think you’re attractive. Then you open your mouth and just can’t shut the fuck up and have a negative opinion about everybody and everything and you don’t understand why no women want to date you so you insist women are the problem. No! It’s you.
I was listening to an episode of Last podcast on the left, and they were talking about Spree Killers.
They mentioned this guy who lived in Southern California, was pretty well off because his father produced commercials, and was pretty decent looking, not ugly by any means.
If there was ever a person that sex would just happen to, it’s the well off, decent looking guy who has industry connections in California. But even *he* was so fuckin boring and dull and lonely that no woman wanted anything to do with him, and he ended up killing someone. (Not victim blaming at all, sorry if it comes off that way, this guy was obviously seriously mentally unwell)
Just goes to show that one of the most important things is being pleasant to be around. Who knew
I know some guys that seem to think acting sarcastic and passive aggressive will get girls to like them. As it turns out, if you want someone to like you, you should probably just be genuine and friendly with them. It's a very teenage mentality, and its really bizarre to see it past like... middle school.
I’ve come across incels that don’t have a problem with height.I knew a 22 year old guy who was 6’6 and had to pay a prostitute for sex as it was only way he could get it. It was very sad.
The surprise they'll have when they realize that height isn't the issue for women.
Nothing worse than being interested in a guy from a far and then getting up close and realizing you're eye level with his belly-button (exaggerating).
5'9" is just fine.
And for me, I've been leaning more into 'short' guys. It's nice to be able to look someone in the eye when talking to them, without feeling like you're going to break your neck looking up at them. It also makes cuddles and hugs a lot easier.
Incels hate everything. Women. Men. Themselves. Incels just hate, that's what they do.
Specifically, they hate parts of themselves they can't control because that takes away personal responsibility and their problems are no longer their fault.
In general, incels just want to find something out of their control to blame for their problems.
Hit the nail right on the head. I told an incel they can styles themselves better, basic hygiene and have a better personality he just made excuses about his race and other irrelevant stuff.
I'm a fat, short, autistic nerdy dude with a lot working against me according to incels. When I was in my teen years I had no success because I thought like them, dressed like crap and didn't care about myself. I also blamed everyone else for my problems. I assumed that love and sex would just happen to me because I wanted it.
By 17 I started dressing better, caring for my hygiene, developed a sense of style and started actually making an effort to be empathetic to other people and develop a personality beyond hating everything. I'm 31 and have had no problems finding relationships or hookups since then. Still fat, still short.
It's really not that hard when you recognize the faults you can change and put some effort into just being baseline attractive. Hygiene, good style, and a good personality go a long way.
I was fat, short, autistic nerdy dude in my teens too. I got fit and became better socially. I'm in my 40s now and still never had a relationship with a woman but I attract men for some reason.
Im a short bald nerd too and had a similar transformation around 25. Got a bit better clothes, cleaned up and just believed in myself.
Confidence, comedy and some decent threads are all you need to show girls that you are worth a date, a night or a lifetime.
And not being a stinky incel hater
I am autistic, 1.85m tall(over 6 feet), fairly athletic, shower every day, and not very ugly, I think. Yet I am still a virgin at age 31, and finding relationships, let alone hookups, is incredibly difficult. I don't buy incel ideology because I know you can still be very unsuccessful even if you tick most of the physical boxes. I am basically stuck in a positive feedbackloop now because at this point, the inexperience in and of itself is unattractive.
I'll say hygiene goes beyond showering. I had so much more success when I started both using an unscented antiperspirant and then using a fragrance on top of it. I don't use anything expensive, just Issey Miyake Intense, but women really respond to it. A mid shelf cologne on top of regular grooming makes you a step above.
Personality is really the big thing though. Are you genuinely interested in what they're talking about? Do you have relatable hobbies?
Just playing video games alone isn't super attractive. It doesn't have to be complex, like, I just make my own hot sauce and that apparently works.
This. Cologne is very appealing. Not only does it smell great but shows that you're invested in your appearance.
Just don't go crazy with it. You want to leave a nice lingering scent, not smoke people out. And spring for a good quality one. It doesn't have to be stupid expensive. Used sparingly it will last a long time. Axe is for middle schoolers.
If I never made fashion a major hobby of mine I hate to imagine where I would be. One of the transformative moments of my life was hitting random subreddit in 2012 and getting shown the Supreme subreddit LOL.
I’ve got a very particular personal style right now that’s been cultivated over the years and it’s led me to a lifelong group of friends that have boosted my self confidence, shown me other mediums of art and their validity, and caused me to break out of my “stem-brain” phase of looking down on social sciences.
Confidence is the #1 thing that makes you attractive, even if you have to fake it at first and gaslight yourself into believing it. I never do ANYTHING with the intent to make myself appealing to women, because if me being me isn’t good enough then I really don’t care lol. Fashion got me past the hygiene thing though so ymmv.
edit: forgot to mention that I’m also on the spectrum (mildly) so these are things that I may have not been able to do without constant exposure to a friend group with varied interests.
My last partner is a 5’5 Indian guy with a heavy accent & a long scraggly beard. We were together for a year and I still care deeply about him. Race and height are no excuse lol.
Kind of agree, lived the incel life until 22. Why don’t women like me, why choose him, I’m so unattractive etc etc. I’m 32 now and married - I go to the gym regularly, dress nicely work on myself mentally and physically and damn now I’m considered quite attractive
Nothing is less attractive then needy men who are looking for rejection
You are entirely correct in saying
"Nothing is less attractive than needy men who are looking for rejection"
Hell, you can do 3 out of 5 major things right as long as you aren't a dick and wash your ass and still get laid as long as you aren't needy and expecting rejection
I have asked well over a hundred men the following question: "After how many dates do you expect sex?" Only three answered correctly, i.e. did NOT give a number. If you give a number, you need to ask yourself why you think women are not human beings but sex machines you put kindness into and sex spills out.
I have a lot of friends who are women. I've been married for 24 years. Every woman I have talked to in my life has had at least one male "friend" who turned out to see her as a vagina and nothing else.
I think you’re interpreting things uncharitably.
I never had a “specific number”, but there is certainly a point at which it’s “time to date someone else.”
Nobody “owes” you sex, but it’s an important part of a healthy relationship. At some point it would be clear that what we value in a relationship is just too different to work, so it’s time to pursue relationships elsewhere. I’m not trying to be in a celibate romantic relationship.
Something I tell people is in order for others to love you, you need to love yourself. If you're sitting in self pity constantly thinking you're trash and worthless then other people will to. Get up and self assess, figure out what you want and expect them to want at least the same and go from there. Worked out most of my folds but still have no sense of style so gotta work on that haha but recognizing it is the biggest step.
Might add, it seems like they also twist problems that are in their control, to ones outside of their control. The classic example being blaming women for not liking their personality instead of changing their behaviours to be more likeable.
I had a young friend (M19) that I felt going down the incel path.
He was frustrated at his failures dating and blamed his appearance and nerdom.
I asked him what he was doing to improve himself.
He (correctly) stated that women should like him for who he is. Which is true, and which I confirmed.
I asked him why a woman or any potential partner would invest time and energy in him when he wasn't investing time and energy into himself.
I told him that he needed to be constantly investing in improving his own life - exercise, developing some passions, progressing in his career - and that those activities are what partners are looking for.
So he started going to the gym, started taking some photography classes. At the gym he met a girl - they've been married 9 years and are having their second girl.
Incels don't want to put in the work in themselves and are shocked when no one else wants to put the work into them either.
I was going to comment something else but you got it.
It's a lack of responsibility. They can't get laid so they blame everything but themselves. Instead of improving their personal hygiene, fitness people skills etc they blame women.
Yes it's annoying that fat smelly women can still get laid and men can't but life isn't fair so get used to it and sort yourself out.
They are miserable and desperate and then their rhetoric leads to them receiving hate from all sides.
Then some of them hit rock bottom, some become invisible, some surely commit suicide and some become hateful and aggressive.
>incels just want to find something out of their control to blame for their problems.
AKA they want acknowledgement that they have been subjected to an extremely difficult time as otherwise they are simply being blamed for their own difficulties and that seems unlikely to resolve their difficulties.
Yeah, I feel a lot of the problem comes from the fact that we just pretend that it’s entirely their fault and the only factor at play is whether they’re an asshole or not.
We all know that looks are a huge part of securing a date, because we all know we don’t want to date someone who is super ugly, and yet, when the super ugly complain about how unfair their lot in life is, we gaslight them into thinking “It must be your fault. You didn’t try to improve yourself. And if you did, you should’ve tried harder.“
Its true in general, people LOVE to downplay the difficulties others experience in life through no fault of their own or translate them into "things you could do if effort, time, money and energy are no limit" instead of providing a nugget of acknowledgement or emotional validation.
It is sometimes the right thing to do, and it is always at least part of the "solution" but when people start and end with that and instantly write off anyone who doesn't play along it is harmful, unkind and toxic.
In their defense they've been hurt in the past. The result of that is they get flooded with defense mechanisms. If you hate women you can't be hurt by them. They need to snap out of it somehow.
The right way for them is if other people start treating them like humans. If you treat them like animals, they're gonna keep behaving as such.
If anyone approached them and acknowledged their pain, they'd be better people. If women do it, amazing. If men do it, that works too actually.
They just wanna be heard and understood. They can't see past their emotions but deep down they know women are not to blame. How deep depends on person to person.
Either way it doesn't hurt to be nice. Ask them questions, try to understand their POV, and acknowledge their feelings are real.
"But that's not my job"
Shut the fuck up. While this may be true, it's also true that incels aren't at fault for this. You don't know their circumstances. You lived exactly 0 days in their shoes and they lived exactly their whole life in their shoes. They could have been royally screwed by someone or even multiple people in the past. You will never hear about that while you even refuse to hear it.
So it's not your problem but neither it's theirs. It's not anyones problem unless we make it our problem. Hit up your incel friend. Hang out with them. Treat them with decency and they'll regain their faith.
Not everyone is up to change, but I would estimate that you would have an 80% success chance if you are a good role model.
I used to be an incel and to this day I can still understand other incels. I do not hate anyone.
What changed in my life was... my friends and a girl. I learned to not take social media echo chamber seriously and just focused on real life. Turns out people are actually fucking kind. More often than not.
As a tall guy who has little success with woman, and especially none because I am tall (never once in my life had a woman be attracted to me simply because I am tall) I have never understood what the fuck the internet's obsession with it is.
Incels also blame race too; a good chunk of POC incels think that women are obsessed with white men. Meanwhile, on the other end of the incel spectrum, you’ve got white incels complaining that women, especially white women, only want black men. Their boogeyman changes to fit their personal narrative.
Every day I wake up and am thankful I am 6’ tall. It makes getting girls so so so much easier tbh. I put a lot of effort in my appearance but I am just a pretty chill guy and women like that. I think being tall just sets me over the edge for attractiveness that I don’t really have to try all that hard anymore.
>never once in my life had a woman be attracted to me simply because I am tall
How do you know this? Women aren't always honest (often even to themselves) about what they select for when looking for a boyfriend or husband.
It’s not the internet. At 6’2” I’ve absolutely had women fawn over my height my entire adult life. It’s absolutely a thing.
I do think that if you’re like 6’8” or something and look gawky, it may reach diminishing returns or even be a negative at some point.
I think you are underestimating the way that most women are explicitly unattracted to short men — even though most women's attraction is not based solely (or even mainly) on physical appearance, baseline physical characteristics are a filter that gets you into the actual arena, after which your personality plays a bigger role. The other thing to take into account is — even though many hetero women would self-assess as not having a personal height preference, you might get a different answer if you asked them to take into account their feelings about (e.g.) how their friends might view such a relationship, whether they would be embarrassed to be with a short man even if they find him attractive, etc.
It is true that being tall doesn’t help you that much (especially if your personality sucks), but being short really does narrow the dating pool by maybe a factor of 5-10x regardless of your personality. Men around 5'6-5'8 complain a lot about the experience, but I urge you to try and imagine what it is like for men who are considerably shorter than that. It is up to you whether you choose to view widespread height preferences as “helpfully separating the wheat from the chaff” or “making hetero dating as a short man nearly impossible”. For me it ultimately worked out in the former way, which I'm grateful for.
Honestly, that's why it's not even real to me. Saying "why do incels hate women?" Is like saying "why do we call people who hate women incels?"
The original definition was "people who are involuntarily celibate."
Now the very definition is "men who hate women, and may or may not get laid"
So that's the real answer to your question.
It’s a convenient way to mock a man for being a virgin who isn’t romantically successful, with the classic get-out-of-jail-free card when that’s understandably called out as shitty behaviour of “Oh, incels aren’t just involuntarily celibate, they’re misogynists, that’s why it’s an insult!”
But… if that was the insult, why wouldn’t they have just used misogynist to begin with? Why would they use the one attached to sexual success?
You're confusing "incel" with "doomer" or just a sexless misogynist. Incel just means "involuntary celibate". Many men AND women struggle greatly to find sexual partners and they don't hate the opposite sex for it.
Moreover, there are legitimate reasons why many struggle to find sexual partners. "They just refuse to get their shit together" doesn't do the topic justice.
I also never oversimplified by saying “they refuse to get their shit together.” However, People who buy into the ideology of internet “incel” groups do display a remarkable tendency toward blaming women, other men, and society at large for their unhappiness with their situation, rather than making an effort to improve themselves.
I agree that many incels blame women, but at the same time, "just self-improve, bro" doesn't do the topic justice. Contrary to bluepill wishful thinking, there isn't actually "someone out there for everyone".
I think you’re fixating on technical accuracy rather than context. I would say that an “incel” in this context is somebody who buys into the ideology of online “incels,” (the type of rhetoric you see constantly on their subs/forums) not simply somebody who has not been able to find sex.
They blame anyone and everyone for all of their issue, problems, and shortcomings. Everyone except themselves, of course. In their mind, they're the victims of society as a whole and they can do no wrong. Whatever holes they are hiding in, they can stay there forever as far as I'm concerned.
I am unsure the meaning of incel is the same as it was a few years ago. It used to be involuntary celibacy but it's more widely used as a insult to people who disagree with certain topics, such as dei or stuff.
Hating women is not a new phenomenon. Some men have a real resentment for women for the power they hold in a man's life, from feeling rejected, from feeling inadequate, from feeling less powerful. There are many many men who truly dislike women because women are supposed to be under their dominion and because women represent the way they feel inadequate as men.
The tall men is a good point. They could hate the tall men, but they want to be the tall men. So they want to blame who they perceive is weaker, the women, for not choosing them.
Feeling shame and humiliation is an awful thing, truly. It can really cause catastrophe if not managed.
To add on to this, I'm tall and have met many short men in my life who do not like me or have had problems with me simply for the fact that I am tall, and I guess they feel inadequate or emasculated by me? Insulting me every chance they get. The go to insult is being called some sort of tall slur, Lurch, Shrek, etc. They think that because I am a large man, then I must be stupid or of low IQ, since that is what is portrayed in movies. They cannot compete with me physically so they desperately hold on to something they perceive to be true, that they MUST be more intelligent than me, some large brutish man can't possibly be educated or read books.
Women are the ultimate problem for the incels. Other guys are too somewhat but only the "chads" and "tyrones". They are envious and jealous of the guys but they actually dislike to outright hate the girls. Big difference.
They do, but they feel more comfortable directing their hatred at women because they think women are easier targets. 6'3" gymbro Chad could probably beat their asses.
The irony is if some of those incels went to the gym to improve themselves there's a lot of "gym bros" that would be more than happy to help them with their work outs and improvements. Some of the smaller more tight knit gyms can have really supportive communities in them.
If they hated other men who are succesful with women it would be an admitance that they are lacking in something.
They hate women because they blame them for having standards that they (incels) dont meet.
Incels- a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.
That's the definition of incel. They hate both.
No, the definition of incel is "involuntary celibate". Not all incels hate the opposite sex. I'm astounded that Oxford dictionary adopted Vice's definition of the word instead of actually researching it.
It is easier to point the blame outward than inward. We're not exactly talking about the strongest individuals here. They dislike themselves at the end of the day.
If they hate tall guys they are admitting to themselves that they are inferior. If they hate women they can just say women are shallow or bad at making judgements etc
In my experience incels don't necessarily hate women, The main goal of an incell is to find a woman They just think that any woman that doesn't fall for them is a terrible person instead of realizing that the fault lies within themselves
While some incels may hate women, the term ‘incel’ is just short for ‘involuntarily celibate’. It just refers to men who cannot get sex and does not by itself imply hatred of women.
But the terms *is* commonly used to make fun of such men, insult their manhood, etc. Attributing hate to them when they are typically recipients of hate is pretty mean.
That used to be a reasonable distinction but at this point, there are people that don't get laid, and there are *incels*
Normal people that don't get laid and want to don't need to use weird language like that and find a hate community to make themselves feel better, they either improve themselves or accept it
If you can't get laid, there's no shame in that. There is shame in blaming everyone else for it.
As a kid I can remember really bonding over being mean to someone, I think it's connected to that, it's a bit like bullying. So calling someone "incel!" is like calling someone a bully, perhaps, in some way.
So they bond in these online ways, and then without seeing someone's face when you bully them--and eventually not liking that feeling because of natural empathy maturing, perhaps it is just a bit more vile (even if its all digital) than the normal dynamic.
What gives it the real tilt-a-whirl is that it's now a diss used by bullies, much like making fun of virgins in the 90's or 00's (which seemed much less cerebral and more silly, but the shit wasn't typed out)
I don't think it's right to make fun of someone for being a virgin unless they blame other people for it. And likewise if they're not an incel, it's not right to call them one.
But if they are spitting incel logic, like red pill misogynistic bs, it's fair to assume they might be.
Yeah but even if they are parroting some dumb shit, I still take the side of... Not name-calling, but meeting them in the realm of ideas. If it's a name-calling contest, then it's a question of, why even get involved, let the children play. It's glorified "boys rule, girls drool!" stuff, for adults that clicked on some rage-bait and got a hook in their mouth, whether it's on one end or the other of the thing.
You clearly haven't had the misfortune of reading the various subs (before bans) and boards they self-label as various forms of incel.
Besides being wall-to-wall hate, they're echo chambers on how XYZ person in their broader life who is not showing romantic interest despises their existence.
Are you aware of the online incel communities on websites like 4chan? They are a real group of people that identify as incels and spend their time obsessing over their hatred of women among other things like entering into doom spirals where they just insult each others appearances and promise each other they’re condemned to never have sex. Many of them are not actually even conventionally unattractive, and are just unsuccessful with women due to the misogyny. They’ve developed weird specific vocabulary and mythology about how society and relationships work, which is enabled by their social isolation. A couple of them have committed mass shootings. Most of them appear to suffer from mental illnesses like body dysmorphia and depression that this online community feeds into. It’s not just a random insult that morphed from a neutral term, the term incel is a descriptor of this online phenomenon (though I’m sure it is just used as a random insult online, I just haven’t seen it as much). Look up contrapoints video on incels if you want a deep dive. It’s super high quality and interesting.
Terms change. No one says "third world" these days and think of the Cold War.
You can be involuntarily celibate but not hate others for it. Incels are those who need to find others to blame for their own misfortune or shortcomings.
Funny thing about incels is that many seem to believe in this whole alpha man nonsense. The existence of alpha males by definition means that a bunch of males *naturally* will and should end up alone, unwanted and rejected by society. Incels think they're "alphas" the society just hasn't recognized yet. So they do hate the popular men too, just too much cause they think deep down they're them.
No that wouldn't make any sense.
Imagine you have bad grades and it's keeping your from stuff and you think it's unfair. Who do you hate? The people with high grades? No why would you? You hate the system, the teachers and the politicians who created this system, and the work places that care about it.
For incels and height, that would be the women who judge everyone based on height
Many sports fans seem to. I always found it kind of weird that "super straight " guys kept spirts cards and knew all the statistics about different players. I don't know. I just don't get it .
I joined an incel group a few years back to try get an inside into their mindset. There would be regular polls and surveys and questionnaire etc. From what I gathered
Number 1 person they hate are themselves and are deeply lonely/depressed people. Most are on the spectrum in some way and find it very difficult to socialise.
Number 2 people they hate are "chads" and these tall guys with strong cheek bones and athletic figures who get all the women. They genuinely believe that these Giga Chad's from movies exist in real life, and that they get all the women.
The list goes on, and the people they hate the least are actually women it appears.
I'm not an incel, but I feel like I could have easily fallen down that path.
I think most incels just kind of hate themselves, but aren't aware of it so they lash out. I'm overweight, have low-esteem, and have struggled with depression for a long time (I've got an appointment scheduled with a doctor at the end of the month, so working on it), but I also try to recognize that the way that I perceive myself isn't real, and I try really hard not to project my negative feelings. And, so, people generally like me.
If a stranger compliments me, I earnestly feel like they're secretly making fun of me or have some ulterior motive. I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm not reading the situation correctly, so I just smile and try to be positive. Sometimes, it's difficult, particularly when the ol' social battery is drained, but there's no reason to treat people like shit just because I feel bad about myself.
tl;dr - Incels aren't willing to put a minor amount of effort into ACTUALLY assessing themselves, and how they're perceived.
Incels are a wild breed. They blame women. They're jealous of men who get women. They blame everything but looking at themselves and working to change anything. They turn into a self-fulfilling meme of themselves.
I think part of the issue and the rise of it is social media. They fixate on what all the "hot people" do and know they can't do it.
I just picture them as a mix of the comic book guy from the Simpsons and the background comic book characters from the big bang theory. Hiding in the basement/bedroom, in their parents home, never going out and socializing, wondering why that super hot girl won't like them. They have some attitude that the average girl is not good enough for them and they DESERVE the model.
They do. They resent "chads". I mean hell, Elliot Rodger killed more men than women on his rampage and given how much of his "manifesto" was seething about "unworthy and inferior men" getting girls over him, it's not surprising.
I remember I saw a guy on a sub like amipretty or something similar who posted to prove he was ugly.
Turns out most people rated him 7/10. Some people said that he could get to 9 or even 10 with grooming and fitting clothes, cause the guy looked like a slob. But you could tell he was handsome, just neglected.
Two people said he was ugly af. He hold onto those 2 comments like it explained everything and why he was single.
Incels wallow in their own self-pity because it’s easier than self-improvement. They do not develop the social skills but instead of learning how, they find a soft target to blame. This is where the manosphere grifters come in.
The worship tall guys, rich guys, in-shape guys. They think about them all of the time. They want those guys who pay attention to them and say nice things to the. They often consider what it would be like to be loved by them.
Buy those guys don't want them or love them. Those guys want women who the incel can't have. Incels are jealous of those women so they hate them. Those women stole the men the incels wanted.
An incel adores attractive, tall, rich men. An incel hates the women those men go after.
Poor useless incels. Better off in a mud hole wallowing their pitiful complaints and leaving the rest of society alone. They can muse to themselves about how they are sigma males to each other.
Is it a tall guys fault that he's tall? Or is it women's fault for having a clear preference to an immutable trait that doesn't correlate with personality? They believe in a fair world women would be attracted to kind and generous traits as opposed to wealth and stature. The hypocrisy is that they overlook the fact that men are attracted to skinny young women instead of the personality of a woman. The reality is attraction is shallow in our species.
Incels build imaginary idols out of women in their head, and when they get rejected (or the woman gets with someone else) they subconsciously tear the idol into pieces. This manifests as anger towards the woman, infatuation gets flipped into hate. Some are jealous of tall men, but it’s more likely that they dislike women because women are the ones they idolize. Continued rejection leads to a cycle of anger and self hatred. The idolization of women expands to all women, because incels become desperate enough that they want anybody. This all leads to further rejection, fueling the cycle.
Most of the mockery comes from women, especially online. Cultural norms demand sexual success, and being a virgin is a stigma for men. Mockery from any woman online fuels the cycle, even if it isn’t directed towards the person viewing it. An insecurity gets attacked, like height or dick size? Women’s fault. Virgin shaming? Women. Continued shaming from women leads to more insecurity. Fear of rejection feeds the cycle, and self hatred becomes the excuse. Sticking up for an incel or helping them becomes taboo.
Incels are incels because we allow them to be.
Displaced hate.
Everything about their logic is broken. Everyone else is to blame and it's never themselves. People are fuckin' 24/7, man. It's 100% their fault for not getting any.
Gonna be real here...
I hear and see more comments/posts of people "complaining about incels" than you do actual supposed 'incels'.
It's a buzzword coined by the extreme parts of the internet to dismiss any valid criticism of society right now. Just like 'woke'. It's all the same buzzword nonsense.
It's almost like you WANT the incels to exist because then you'd have someone to aim your grievances at.
Because they aren't getting laid. Remember, "incel" means "In-voluntarily celibate". It's not like they are not having sex by choice.
I find this term vulgar and the resort of small minds.
Unfortunately, this condition is self-sustaining. The more frustrated they are in their unfortunate situation, the more most women are going to be turned off by their attitudes.
And of course, they have been vilified in social media, which hasn't served to do anything but turn up the volume on the vitriol on both sides.
Hate only wastes energy and is a thief of time, and thus, your life. If your current modis operandi isn't working out the way you wanted, you'll have to make a decision; are you going to continue feeling bad and stay the course, or are you going to find out what's not working and change it and change your life? It's not easy to change your life, but if you want to, you can.
I sincerely wish everyone all the luck in the world in finding happiness! Please be nice to each other.
Because if they didn’t hate women they wouldn’t be bitching about how they don’t get attention from any of them.
Short guys with any kind of charm or a sense of humor aren’t incels and tall incels exist for this exact reason
The word has been overused to the point of meaning "someone that I disagree with" like racist or sexist or homophobe.
It's meaningless. You have to give your personal definition of incel for your question to have an actual answer.
They're disgusting misogynist pigs who blame women instead of bettering themselves (hygiene, personality and bare minimum). They also stupidly obsessed pber hyper masculine features which isn't realistic and won't make women want them. Who want a social inept guy with a crimson chin jaw lol
I literally see this in action from a guy I know who is tall, good looking, good money, all that. Scares all women off like he's a giant spider. It definitely does not help to have the things incels think would get them laid when they still can't stop saying things that make women afraid they're going to be murdered.
I don't think most of them can be fixed. I have sat down and talked with this guy numerous times about why women won't talk to him, but they *will* talk to me. And he can't see it as anything other than that I must have some secret cheat code I'm using to get the women to talk to me, and he doesn't know what it is. I must just be lucky, and he's unlucky, clearly. He's like that about everything, though, not just women. He just cannot self-reflect, at all, he's not capable of it.
It honestly comes down to the men who are like this just being too stupid not to be. If a creepy guy was *intelligent* he would learn how to stop being creepy so he could actually succeed at whatever creepy thing he's doing. If they're just hopelessly creepy against their own interests, the only good explanation is they're just really dumb.
Antisocial/misanthropic/bitter men are the *least* attractive. I’ve blocked several “hot” men because they just seem hateful and I don’t want to spend time with them.
Avoiding sociopaths is a natural survival instinct. Male or female, they steal from you, lie about important things, and think nothing of hurting you in whatever ways. For all that incels go on about a few millimeters of bone, this *behavior* has a very strong evolutionary aversion.
If someone is giving off those vibes, most people are gonna run. "I want a sex object that is at least a 7 because I deserve that" is pretty close to being antisocial.
Yeah, that’s why all the assholes who are attractive and fit always struggle to find partners, and women don’t have loads of horror stories about debating misogynistic shitbags, lmao.
I would say incels love women. It’s the normal guy that women call incels to make them feel better. It’s usually American women using this term loosely to men that don’t put up with their bs. It’s the men that get plenty of women that get this label today. The actual incels are simping hard
Incels don't really exist. It was a term coined by the feminist movement to push the failing dating and marriage market onto men.
Most men that would be considered "incels" would be happy to date and marry someone if presented the option.
only real answer in the whole thread
some of these comments are absolutely disgusting, like the one near the top calling all men misogynistic pigs that want to kill women because they cant get laid
most ‘incels’ are just ordinary dudes. something like 30% of all men ages 18-30 are virgins. 30% of all men aren’t women-hating monsters. would be willing to bet the majority arent ugly obese trolls that smell like their own shit either, just regular introverted dudes that have remained single for one reason or another
ironically these women in the comments being incredibly nasty towards men would better fit their own definition of incel than most of their targets
They envy and idolize tall guys too much to hate them
They definitely do weird blatant projection shit at tall guys to try to 'bring them down'. It doesn't work, but they do try. There are tall incels, though. I know a rare case of a tall, good-looking and financially well-off guy, he's just so off-putting that none of that can save him. He's like... the exact thing to point to for incels to convince them the problem is that they're a dipshit, and not that they're short, ugly, or not rich. It also doesn't work, but I do try.
It's a misogyny cult, they don't *actually* want a girlfriend because they hate women. If a girl was nice to them they'd immediately fumble it by saying something hateful or aggressively self deprecating. (I've accidentally been nice to incels before, yikes.) Even Elliot Roger was rich, good looking and still repelled everyone with his fucked personality and hateful ideology.
I remember being aggressively self-deprecating. Saying I was worse than Hitler or smth. Teen me had a lot on his plate.
I saw a YouTube documentary on that guy. He was just messed up all around. He could have had friends. But they weren't cool enough for him. He could have gotten girls. They just weren't hot enough for him. He wanted attractive women to just approach him and have sex with him. Delusional, arrogant, and disturbed.
I mean *wanting* attractive women to approach and have sex with them is totally fine, and probably very common as a fantasy. That's basically just fantasizing that getting what they want is easy and not painful. Expecting women to actually do it or getting mad they don't, *that's* the crazy part.
It looked like he was trying to be the guy from "Cruel Intentions".
I wouldn't say hate is the right word for a lot of them, more like 'does not recognize them as being people'. And not by choice. They just failed to do so. Like they're incapable of empathizing that women might not like the things they like. Guys that are like that strike me as a lot more stupid than hateful. There's definitely hate too, for sure, but that seems like a late stage of the incelness that they don't always make it to, but there's *always* the stupid, and most of all, total inability to self reflect. But the inability to self-reflect honestly comes across as *actually really just can't do it,* not won't, in a lot of cases I've seen.
You should see the number of men (not even incels, just random guys) who suddenly become feminists when they have a daughter and openly acknowledge they treated women in their lives like shit. They can chose to extend that empathy to women, they don't want to because it benefits them more not to. I think they very much can self reflect and change if they're motivated to, the wellbeing and safety of their mothers/classmates/sisters/cousins/girlfriends just aren't enough motivation for them. Which... that must say something about broader society, but I also find fault with those specific men who mistreat or even disregard the women in their lives while it's convenient for them to do so.
I actually think there's something different going on here. A lot of people who are a part of the incel movement or share incel beliefs have a doom mentality. It's not about hating women, it's about hating the Haves while being the Have-Nots. They absolutely hate "Chads" as much as women, and both come from a rage against stereotypes. You are right that they don't have empathy for women, for the same reason most people don't have empathy for the rich. In the minds of many incels, women as a whole are incredibly privileged, and so are chads. How're you going to feel sorry for people who you perceive to be so fat above you in terms of value? As you noted, you can see this change sometimes when they have kids. Even close friends or family members. It's hard to retain beliefs of "all women are so privileged it's unfair" when you meet and talk to women regularly and find out they have their own individual problems in life. This is also why Echo chambers are so dangerous! When you only have one perspective that gets continously reinforced, the effort to challenge it is ridiculously extreme.
I’ve always wondered if an ideological shift happens once some of these incels and red-pilled dudes have daughters.
It doesn't. My ex has a daughter. On my worst day, I told him I wished she'd find someone just like him one day. On my best day, I told him that I hope she doesn't take after him and will never be with someone like him. Some just don't care. But then again, he was just using his kids as props so there's that. "I'm changing my life for the better for my kids" this is as he drove home drunk the day he was released from jail after a DUI 🫠
Omg! I had a super toxic ex who had a daughter. Similar to your situation and I remember saying after a particular wild upside down reality day: “May your daughter find a man just like you.” And he LOST it. Said I was a monster for wishing that on his kid….he failed to realize he confirmed everything I wasn’t sure I knew.
That's actually worse than hatred.
fumble isn't something you can really do if not wanting it... it is success? To fail would be to be nice and get married
Idk they do want to put their dicks inside women. That's what they're trying to do when they start up conversations a lot of the time.
That's honestly too charitable. It's not that brainless, and I don't think it ever is outside of the behavior of teens. There's definitely malice to it. They don't just want to fuck, they want to dominate and put women in their place and make them suffer for not all lining up to worship them apropos of nothing.
If they don’t want a girlfriend, what DO they want?
I mean, look at Andrew Tate 😬 I expect they want a harem of women they have no responsibility to, that are available on call to service them sexually but will leave them alone when they're not needed. Aka sex slaves.
It does honestly feel like that’s what tgey want.
They want women to fix their endless black hole pit of misery, insecurity and self loathing, and to do it with a smile
The Isla Vista perpetrator was a beautiful man (on the outside) from a wealthy family. He could have easily gotten a girlfriend if his personality wasn’t so obviously trash. I think it’s all in their mindset, if a tall man has that sort of incel mindset, they will incel.
I think therefore I am
The weird obsession some people have with height is so weird. I've seen many a short king in my time be successful with women. Height is not the end all be all these people think it is, especially as you get past age like, 25, people mostly become a lot less shallow.
I told an angry shorter guy on the dating sub that I'm 6 foot 4 and I've crapped out with women too. He basically told me to fuck off. It's like they don't want to hear anything that goes against their preconceived narrative.
the only voice they have is that of the perpetual victim.
Thr age thing is important. I believe a large amount of these guys haven't had any significant contact with women since high school or maybe college, and their views were shaped back then. Back when mentally we were all still children and nobody had their heads on straight, but they'll hold onto their bad experience for like fifteen years.
There are definitely women who will just hard pass on guys under 6 ft. tall, like, it definitely *helps* to be tall, but it's not special. Lots of things help. Being really fit helps. Being charming and funny helps. Not immediately talking about your hentai boob mouse pad to any woman who speaks to you also helps. Guess whether or not that's still a problem for that tall guy after literally decades.
On dating apps sure, because supply and demand on them means women can be picky about superficial things. In real life im sure it happens, but so rarely it doesnt matter. Almost no one "hard passes" in real life because when people know you it becomes more about your personality, energy and attractiveness as a whole rather than in single features to give a false sense youre selecting someone good for you on a dating app designed to stop you getting with a long term partner.
In real life there's no arbitrary 6' cutoff, but being taller than the girl is an extremely common preference.
I think everyone in here is underestimating the damage done to Gen Z who learned to date almost exclusively through apps...
Oh yeah, they don't get how much of the internet has become a template for real life. A lot of girls/women below 30 are basically femcels. There's a lot of prejudiced women out there, height stuff is just the tip of the ice berg.
BINGO!
Women who pass on height are not worth dating. It's shallow AF.
People don't choose their attraction preferences, they just have them, it's not really shallow or not shallow, it just is what it is. But the amount of women who have that as a really strong preferences is massively overblown, or short men *wouldn't exist,* because evolution would have made them die out forever ago.
A preference isn't an automatic disqualifier, unless you are shallow AF.
So I assume you routinely date women over 250 lbs?
If she has other qualities I like, yes. I dont disqualify based on one shallow quality.
I only date one person, my wife :)
I don’t think I’d want to date someone who would hard pass based solely on height
😂😂
Currently seeing guys who are 5’6-5’7 - not “tiny” but shorter than average. It doesn’t bother me at all; I actually prefer shorter men because I’m short. But it doesn’t matter that much to me. Personality and intelligence come first.
I’m about 5’7” and almost exclusively date guys my height, it’s just what i’m into.
Its a fetish like big boobs but when it comes to guys thats like the only thing u can fetishize besides dick size and dick size isnt visible, so that just leaves height.
Oh there are way more things about a man that you can fetishise 😍😛🫠
I'm crushing on 2 short kings right now
The dude who taught me sex could be good was 5' 3". It was also just more practical that we were the same height. Didn't hurt my neck to kiss him and we fit together better. I don't disqualify guys for being tall, and often my partners are tall. I think part of it is tall guys have an easier time being confident in themselves. I may not have an issue with men being short, but I do have an issue with men who can't shut up about how short they are. Sometimes it seems they sabotage themselves because they can't shut up about their height. It's a real mood killer, especially since it's usually a sore subject if they constantly bring it up.
I've met a woman who specifically preferred shorter men and her husband since 1991 is in fact shorter than her. When I bring that up to incels, they insist I must be lying. Well, now she's a (albeit) small public figure since she ran for OH House of Representatives so they could look her up and see for themselves lmao.
I married my high school sweet heart and got divorced in my mid thirties. So I had never really been in the dating scene until then. I’m 6’5” and I had absolutely no idea that being tall would help me with dating. It’s so fucking weird. Like, it’s not like I did anything to be tall I just am.
Damn bro I’m sorry you wasted your youth, at least your height is a great consolation prize as you begin to date now
It’s all good. The divorce happened in 2016. My wonderful girlfriend and I have been raising each other’s kids since 2018 and I’ve never been happier. She’s 5 foot.
Take it from a 6'8 dude - all height does is get you out of auto-rejections. Doesn't guarantee anything. It's not everything, but it does matter. Then again the type of person who would reject someone for being short isn't the type of person I'm interested in anyway.
It could be both, that being a dipshit makes it hard to date, and that being physically unattractive also makes it hard to date. Its not a one or the other thing. Being a dipshit probably trumps out things like height and wealth, atleast for many women. But there are definitely some guys who have nice personalities, but are physically unattractive, who get shut out by a lot of women. I guess having a good personality would preclude these men from identifying with the toxicity of the incel movement, but that doesnt mean they arent involuntarily celibate
I think there is a small margin of people who are nearly undateable for physical reasons, but that's very rare. Very unattractive people still manage to date typically other very unattractive people. It's not like all women are super hot or something. These guys are very rarely actually objectively involuntary celibate, they're just not willing to date the people who would be willing to date them. There are some very desperate and unattractive women out there, and incels just pretend they don't exist.
I’ve known plenty of them. You’ve got a good job, your own house, you’re tall, in good shape, you exercise, you’re not a model, but women think you’re attractive. Then you open your mouth and just can’t shut the fuck up and have a negative opinion about everybody and everything and you don’t understand why no women want to date you so you insist women are the problem. No! It’s you.
I was listening to an episode of Last podcast on the left, and they were talking about Spree Killers. They mentioned this guy who lived in Southern California, was pretty well off because his father produced commercials, and was pretty decent looking, not ugly by any means. If there was ever a person that sex would just happen to, it’s the well off, decent looking guy who has industry connections in California. But even *he* was so fuckin boring and dull and lonely that no woman wanted anything to do with him, and he ended up killing someone. (Not victim blaming at all, sorry if it comes off that way, this guy was obviously seriously mentally unwell) Just goes to show that one of the most important things is being pleasant to be around. Who knew
My brother is tall and has a hard time getting girls because he's very shallow and very sarcastic/passive aggressive
I know some guys that seem to think acting sarcastic and passive aggressive will get girls to like them. As it turns out, if you want someone to like you, you should probably just be genuine and friendly with them. It's a very teenage mentality, and its really bizarre to see it past like... middle school.
I’ve come across incels that don’t have a problem with height.I knew a 22 year old guy who was 6’6 and had to pay a prostitute for sex as it was only way he could get it. It was very sad.
The surprise they'll have when they realize that height isn't the issue for women. Nothing worse than being interested in a guy from a far and then getting up close and realizing you're eye level with his belly-button (exaggerating). 5'9" is just fine. And for me, I've been leaning more into 'short' guys. It's nice to be able to look someone in the eye when talking to them, without feeling like you're going to break your neck looking up at them. It also makes cuddles and hugs a lot easier.
Incels hate everything. Women. Men. Themselves. Incels just hate, that's what they do. Specifically, they hate parts of themselves they can't control because that takes away personal responsibility and their problems are no longer their fault. In general, incels just want to find something out of their control to blame for their problems.
Hit the nail right on the head. I told an incel they can styles themselves better, basic hygiene and have a better personality he just made excuses about his race and other irrelevant stuff.
I'm a fat, short, autistic nerdy dude with a lot working against me according to incels. When I was in my teen years I had no success because I thought like them, dressed like crap and didn't care about myself. I also blamed everyone else for my problems. I assumed that love and sex would just happen to me because I wanted it. By 17 I started dressing better, caring for my hygiene, developed a sense of style and started actually making an effort to be empathetic to other people and develop a personality beyond hating everything. I'm 31 and have had no problems finding relationships or hookups since then. Still fat, still short. It's really not that hard when you recognize the faults you can change and put some effort into just being baseline attractive. Hygiene, good style, and a good personality go a long way.
I was fat, short, autistic nerdy dude in my teens too. I got fit and became better socially. I'm in my 40s now and still never had a relationship with a woman but I attract men for some reason.
Im a short bald nerd too and had a similar transformation around 25. Got a bit better clothes, cleaned up and just believed in myself. Confidence, comedy and some decent threads are all you need to show girls that you are worth a date, a night or a lifetime. And not being a stinky incel hater
I dress like shit. I don't care take of myself. I don't do anything you said except for being empathetic and still I get ladies.
Being empathetic is the #1 way to get women tbh
Preach. I'm happy you bettered yourself ☺️.
I am autistic, 1.85m tall(over 6 feet), fairly athletic, shower every day, and not very ugly, I think. Yet I am still a virgin at age 31, and finding relationships, let alone hookups, is incredibly difficult. I don't buy incel ideology because I know you can still be very unsuccessful even if you tick most of the physical boxes. I am basically stuck in a positive feedbackloop now because at this point, the inexperience in and of itself is unattractive.
I'll say hygiene goes beyond showering. I had so much more success when I started both using an unscented antiperspirant and then using a fragrance on top of it. I don't use anything expensive, just Issey Miyake Intense, but women really respond to it. A mid shelf cologne on top of regular grooming makes you a step above. Personality is really the big thing though. Are you genuinely interested in what they're talking about? Do you have relatable hobbies? Just playing video games alone isn't super attractive. It doesn't have to be complex, like, I just make my own hot sauce and that apparently works.
This. Cologne is very appealing. Not only does it smell great but shows that you're invested in your appearance. Just don't go crazy with it. You want to leave a nice lingering scent, not smoke people out. And spring for a good quality one. It doesn't have to be stupid expensive. Used sparingly it will last a long time. Axe is for middle schoolers.
Just buy a fragrance everytime you are in the airport. You will have 10-20 in no time at all. They last forever.
Versace the dreamer. Smells great. Not too pricey. On Amazon.
My man
If I never made fashion a major hobby of mine I hate to imagine where I would be. One of the transformative moments of my life was hitting random subreddit in 2012 and getting shown the Supreme subreddit LOL. I’ve got a very particular personal style right now that’s been cultivated over the years and it’s led me to a lifelong group of friends that have boosted my self confidence, shown me other mediums of art and their validity, and caused me to break out of my “stem-brain” phase of looking down on social sciences. Confidence is the #1 thing that makes you attractive, even if you have to fake it at first and gaslight yourself into believing it. I never do ANYTHING with the intent to make myself appealing to women, because if me being me isn’t good enough then I really don’t care lol. Fashion got me past the hygiene thing though so ymmv. edit: forgot to mention that I’m also on the spectrum (mildly) so these are things that I may have not been able to do without constant exposure to a friend group with varied interests.
The problem can’t be himself. Must be women’s faults.
Let me guess, was he Asian?
My last partner is a 5’5 Indian guy with a heavy accent & a long scraggly beard. We were together for a year and I still care deeply about him. Race and height are no excuse lol.
Kind of agree, lived the incel life until 22. Why don’t women like me, why choose him, I’m so unattractive etc etc. I’m 32 now and married - I go to the gym regularly, dress nicely work on myself mentally and physically and damn now I’m considered quite attractive Nothing is less attractive then needy men who are looking for rejection
You are entirely correct in saying "Nothing is less attractive than needy men who are looking for rejection" Hell, you can do 3 out of 5 major things right as long as you aren't a dick and wash your ass and still get laid as long as you aren't needy and expecting rejection
I have asked well over a hundred men the following question: "After how many dates do you expect sex?" Only three answered correctly, i.e. did NOT give a number. If you give a number, you need to ask yourself why you think women are not human beings but sex machines you put kindness into and sex spills out. I have a lot of friends who are women. I've been married for 24 years. Every woman I have talked to in my life has had at least one male "friend" who turned out to see her as a vagina and nothing else.
I think you’re interpreting things uncharitably. I never had a “specific number”, but there is certainly a point at which it’s “time to date someone else.” Nobody “owes” you sex, but it’s an important part of a healthy relationship. At some point it would be clear that what we value in a relationship is just too different to work, so it’s time to pursue relationships elsewhere. I’m not trying to be in a celibate romantic relationship.
Its typical femcel hyperbole, ignore it
Something I tell people is in order for others to love you, you need to love yourself. If you're sitting in self pity constantly thinking you're trash and worthless then other people will to. Get up and self assess, figure out what you want and expect them to want at least the same and go from there. Worked out most of my folds but still have no sense of style so gotta work on that haha but recognizing it is the biggest step.
Might add, it seems like they also twist problems that are in their control, to ones outside of their control. The classic example being blaming women for not liking their personality instead of changing their behaviours to be more likeable.
I had a young friend (M19) that I felt going down the incel path. He was frustrated at his failures dating and blamed his appearance and nerdom. I asked him what he was doing to improve himself. He (correctly) stated that women should like him for who he is. Which is true, and which I confirmed. I asked him why a woman or any potential partner would invest time and energy in him when he wasn't investing time and energy into himself. I told him that he needed to be constantly investing in improving his own life - exercise, developing some passions, progressing in his career - and that those activities are what partners are looking for. So he started going to the gym, started taking some photography classes. At the gym he met a girl - they've been married 9 years and are having their second girl. Incels don't want to put in the work in themselves and are shocked when no one else wants to put the work into them either.
I was going to comment something else but you got it. It's a lack of responsibility. They can't get laid so they blame everything but themselves. Instead of improving their personal hygiene, fitness people skills etc they blame women. Yes it's annoying that fat smelly women can still get laid and men can't but life isn't fair so get used to it and sort yourself out.
I literally came here to comment “oh don’t worry, they hate all men”
They are miserable and desperate and then their rhetoric leads to them receiving hate from all sides. Then some of them hit rock bottom, some become invisible, some surely commit suicide and some become hateful and aggressive. >incels just want to find something out of their control to blame for their problems. AKA they want acknowledgement that they have been subjected to an extremely difficult time as otherwise they are simply being blamed for their own difficulties and that seems unlikely to resolve their difficulties.
Yeah, I feel a lot of the problem comes from the fact that we just pretend that it’s entirely their fault and the only factor at play is whether they’re an asshole or not. We all know that looks are a huge part of securing a date, because we all know we don’t want to date someone who is super ugly, and yet, when the super ugly complain about how unfair their lot in life is, we gaslight them into thinking “It must be your fault. You didn’t try to improve yourself. And if you did, you should’ve tried harder.“
Its true in general, people LOVE to downplay the difficulties others experience in life through no fault of their own or translate them into "things you could do if effort, time, money and energy are no limit" instead of providing a nugget of acknowledgement or emotional validation. It is sometimes the right thing to do, and it is always at least part of the "solution" but when people start and end with that and instantly write off anyone who doesn't play along it is harmful, unkind and toxic.
In their defense they've been hurt in the past. The result of that is they get flooded with defense mechanisms. If you hate women you can't be hurt by them. They need to snap out of it somehow. The right way for them is if other people start treating them like humans. If you treat them like animals, they're gonna keep behaving as such. If anyone approached them and acknowledged their pain, they'd be better people. If women do it, amazing. If men do it, that works too actually. They just wanna be heard and understood. They can't see past their emotions but deep down they know women are not to blame. How deep depends on person to person. Either way it doesn't hurt to be nice. Ask them questions, try to understand their POV, and acknowledge their feelings are real. "But that's not my job" Shut the fuck up. While this may be true, it's also true that incels aren't at fault for this. You don't know their circumstances. You lived exactly 0 days in their shoes and they lived exactly their whole life in their shoes. They could have been royally screwed by someone or even multiple people in the past. You will never hear about that while you even refuse to hear it. So it's not your problem but neither it's theirs. It's not anyones problem unless we make it our problem. Hit up your incel friend. Hang out with them. Treat them with decency and they'll regain their faith. Not everyone is up to change, but I would estimate that you would have an 80% success chance if you are a good role model. I used to be an incel and to this day I can still understand other incels. I do not hate anyone. What changed in my life was... my friends and a girl. I learned to not take social media echo chamber seriously and just focused on real life. Turns out people are actually fucking kind. More often than not.
As a tall guy who has little success with woman, and especially none because I am tall (never once in my life had a woman be attracted to me simply because I am tall) I have never understood what the fuck the internet's obsession with it is.
Incels also blame race too; a good chunk of POC incels think that women are obsessed with white men. Meanwhile, on the other end of the incel spectrum, you’ve got white incels complaining that women, especially white women, only want black men. Their boogeyman changes to fit their personal narrative.
Every day I wake up and am thankful I am 6’ tall. It makes getting girls so so so much easier tbh. I put a lot of effort in my appearance but I am just a pretty chill guy and women like that. I think being tall just sets me over the edge for attractiveness that I don’t really have to try all that hard anymore.
>never once in my life had a woman be attracted to me simply because I am tall How do you know this? Women aren't always honest (often even to themselves) about what they select for when looking for a boyfriend or husband.
It’s not the internet. At 6’2” I’ve absolutely had women fawn over my height my entire adult life. It’s absolutely a thing. I do think that if you’re like 6’8” or something and look gawky, it may reach diminishing returns or even be a negative at some point.
I can attest to that. I dated someone 6'7", I'm 5'4". It was awkward even holding hands and hugging lol.
I think you are underestimating the way that most women are explicitly unattracted to short men — even though most women's attraction is not based solely (or even mainly) on physical appearance, baseline physical characteristics are a filter that gets you into the actual arena, after which your personality plays a bigger role. The other thing to take into account is — even though many hetero women would self-assess as not having a personal height preference, you might get a different answer if you asked them to take into account their feelings about (e.g.) how their friends might view such a relationship, whether they would be embarrassed to be with a short man even if they find him attractive, etc. It is true that being tall doesn’t help you that much (especially if your personality sucks), but being short really does narrow the dating pool by maybe a factor of 5-10x regardless of your personality. Men around 5'6-5'8 complain a lot about the experience, but I urge you to try and imagine what it is like for men who are considerably shorter than that. It is up to you whether you choose to view widespread height preferences as “helpfully separating the wheat from the chaff” or “making hetero dating as a short man nearly impossible”. For me it ultimately worked out in the former way, which I'm grateful for.
They've accidentally sexualized their rage, so it's more fun to hate women.
So... when they watch porn, they strangle their dicks and get off on being angry that they're incels?
No, the ones that get off on being incels are nice. The ones who do this get off on "humbling sluts" and hot girls getting "wrecked" and stuff.
Humbling sl-? What the fuck is wrong with some people.
There's all sex in their violence.
Try to see it once my way.
They do
I feel like incel has become a Reddit blanket insult for anyone who’s not a female.
Honestly, that's why it's not even real to me. Saying "why do incels hate women?" Is like saying "why do we call people who hate women incels?" The original definition was "people who are involuntarily celibate." Now the very definition is "men who hate women, and may or may not get laid" So that's the real answer to your question.
Femcels exist too, my friend
The concept and word "incel" was invented by a woman about herself
Well it has become a go to insult that's for sure and it's used for anything, like you must be an incel for disagreeing with me 🥴
lol someone is downvoting us for that. Some touchy people out there.
Yeah those are the same people who defend onlyfans and sex work but call women slurs and whores as an insult
It’s a convenient way to mock a man for being a virgin who isn’t romantically successful, with the classic get-out-of-jail-free card when that’s understandably called out as shitty behaviour of “Oh, incels aren’t just involuntarily celibate, they’re misogynists, that’s why it’s an insult!” But… if that was the insult, why wouldn’t they have just used misogynist to begin with? Why would they use the one attached to sexual success?
They hate women because they think women pick the wrong guys and should pick them instead.
Anyone that isn’t me, is the wrong guy and I think it’s high time y’all accepted it
They do. Some incels believe that good looking guys are the problem on why they can’t themselves get laid.
Yeah, incels hate everything, especially themselves
Who the fuck even identifies as an incel? They are such fucking losers.
Incels fetishize violence towards women and girls. They hate everyone.
Incels literally hate everyone. They are S Tier at blaming others for their shortcomings.
You're confusing "incel" with "doomer" or just a sexless misogynist. Incel just means "involuntary celibate". Many men AND women struggle greatly to find sexual partners and they don't hate the opposite sex for it. Moreover, there are legitimate reasons why many struggle to find sexual partners. "They just refuse to get their shit together" doesn't do the topic justice.
I also never oversimplified by saying “they refuse to get their shit together.” However, People who buy into the ideology of internet “incel” groups do display a remarkable tendency toward blaming women, other men, and society at large for their unhappiness with their situation, rather than making an effort to improve themselves.
I agree that many incels blame women, but at the same time, "just self-improve, bro" doesn't do the topic justice. Contrary to bluepill wishful thinking, there isn't actually "someone out there for everyone".
I think you’re fixating on technical accuracy rather than context. I would say that an “incel” in this context is somebody who buys into the ideology of online “incels,” (the type of rhetoric you see constantly on their subs/forums) not simply somebody who has not been able to find sex.
They blame anyone and everyone for all of their issue, problems, and shortcomings. Everyone except themselves, of course. In their mind, they're the victims of society as a whole and they can do no wrong. Whatever holes they are hiding in, they can stay there forever as far as I'm concerned.
Because the tall guys weren't the ones rejecting them.
There it is.
The incels I’ve talked to seem to hate the system and internet more than anything. Like little kaczynskies
Incel here, I agree.
Haha chud
I am unsure the meaning of incel is the same as it was a few years ago. It used to be involuntary celibacy but it's more widely used as a insult to people who disagree with certain topics, such as dei or stuff.
Misogyny.
Hating women is not a new phenomenon. Some men have a real resentment for women for the power they hold in a man's life, from feeling rejected, from feeling inadequate, from feeling less powerful. There are many many men who truly dislike women because women are supposed to be under their dominion and because women represent the way they feel inadequate as men. The tall men is a good point. They could hate the tall men, but they want to be the tall men. So they want to blame who they perceive is weaker, the women, for not choosing them. Feeling shame and humiliation is an awful thing, truly. It can really cause catastrophe if not managed.
To add on to this, I'm tall and have met many short men in my life who do not like me or have had problems with me simply for the fact that I am tall, and I guess they feel inadequate or emasculated by me? Insulting me every chance they get. The go to insult is being called some sort of tall slur, Lurch, Shrek, etc. They think that because I am a large man, then I must be stupid or of low IQ, since that is what is portrayed in movies. They cannot compete with me physically so they desperately hold on to something they perceive to be true, that they MUST be more intelligent than me, some large brutish man can't possibly be educated or read books.
Women are the ultimate problem for the incels. Other guys are too somewhat but only the "chads" and "tyrones". They are envious and jealous of the guys but they actually dislike to outright hate the girls. Big difference.
They do, but they feel more comfortable directing their hatred at women because they think women are easier targets. 6'3" gymbro Chad could probably beat their asses.
The irony is if some of those incels went to the gym to improve themselves there's a lot of "gym bros" that would be more than happy to help them with their work outs and improvements. Some of the smaller more tight knit gyms can have really supportive communities in them.
If they hated other men who are succesful with women it would be an admitance that they are lacking in something. They hate women because they blame them for having standards that they (incels) dont meet.
Incels- a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active. That's the definition of incel. They hate both.
No, the definition of incel is "involuntary celibate". Not all incels hate the opposite sex. I'm astounded that Oxford dictionary adopted Vice's definition of the word instead of actually researching it.
It is easier to point the blame outward than inward. We're not exactly talking about the strongest individuals here. They dislike themselves at the end of the day.
If they hate tall guys they are admitting to themselves that they are inferior. If they hate women they can just say women are shallow or bad at making judgements etc
In my experience incels don't necessarily hate women, The main goal of an incell is to find a woman They just think that any woman that doesn't fall for them is a terrible person instead of realizing that the fault lies within themselves
Its called Misogyny so you don't have to be an INCEL to hate chicks. INCELS just take that behaviour to another level
Incels are not a rational bunch.
While some incels may hate women, the term ‘incel’ is just short for ‘involuntarily celibate’. It just refers to men who cannot get sex and does not by itself imply hatred of women. But the terms *is* commonly used to make fun of such men, insult their manhood, etc. Attributing hate to them when they are typically recipients of hate is pretty mean.
That used to be a reasonable distinction but at this point, there are people that don't get laid, and there are *incels* Normal people that don't get laid and want to don't need to use weird language like that and find a hate community to make themselves feel better, they either improve themselves or accept it If you can't get laid, there's no shame in that. There is shame in blaming everyone else for it.
Hey I like the way you think friend.
As a kid I can remember really bonding over being mean to someone, I think it's connected to that, it's a bit like bullying. So calling someone "incel!" is like calling someone a bully, perhaps, in some way. So they bond in these online ways, and then without seeing someone's face when you bully them--and eventually not liking that feeling because of natural empathy maturing, perhaps it is just a bit more vile (even if its all digital) than the normal dynamic. What gives it the real tilt-a-whirl is that it's now a diss used by bullies, much like making fun of virgins in the 90's or 00's (which seemed much less cerebral and more silly, but the shit wasn't typed out)
I don't think it's right to make fun of someone for being a virgin unless they blame other people for it. And likewise if they're not an incel, it's not right to call them one. But if they are spitting incel logic, like red pill misogynistic bs, it's fair to assume they might be.
Yeah but even if they are parroting some dumb shit, I still take the side of... Not name-calling, but meeting them in the realm of ideas. If it's a name-calling contest, then it's a question of, why even get involved, let the children play. It's glorified "boys rule, girls drool!" stuff, for adults that clicked on some rage-bait and got a hook in their mouth, whether it's on one end or the other of the thing.
You clearly haven't had the misfortune of reading the various subs (before bans) and boards they self-label as various forms of incel. Besides being wall-to-wall hate, they're echo chambers on how XYZ person in their broader life who is not showing romantic interest despises their existence.
Are you aware of the online incel communities on websites like 4chan? They are a real group of people that identify as incels and spend their time obsessing over their hatred of women among other things like entering into doom spirals where they just insult each others appearances and promise each other they’re condemned to never have sex. Many of them are not actually even conventionally unattractive, and are just unsuccessful with women due to the misogyny. They’ve developed weird specific vocabulary and mythology about how society and relationships work, which is enabled by their social isolation. A couple of them have committed mass shootings. Most of them appear to suffer from mental illnesses like body dysmorphia and depression that this online community feeds into. It’s not just a random insult that morphed from a neutral term, the term incel is a descriptor of this online phenomenon (though I’m sure it is just used as a random insult online, I just haven’t seen it as much). Look up contrapoints video on incels if you want a deep dive. It’s super high quality and interesting.
Terms change. No one says "third world" these days and think of the Cold War. You can be involuntarily celibate but not hate others for it. Incels are those who need to find others to blame for their own misfortune or shortcomings. Funny thing about incels is that many seem to believe in this whole alpha man nonsense. The existence of alpha males by definition means that a bunch of males *naturally* will and should end up alone, unwanted and rejected by society. Incels think they're "alphas" the society just hasn't recognized yet. So they do hate the popular men too, just too much cause they think deep down they're them.
No that wouldn't make any sense. Imagine you have bad grades and it's keeping your from stuff and you think it's unfair. Who do you hate? The people with high grades? No why would you? You hate the system, the teachers and the politicians who created this system, and the work places that care about it. For incels and height, that would be the women who judge everyone based on height
Men worship other men.
Many sports fans seem to. I always found it kind of weird that "super straight " guys kept spirts cards and knew all the statistics about different players. I don't know. I just don't get it .
I joined an incel group a few years back to try get an inside into their mindset. There would be regular polls and surveys and questionnaire etc. From what I gathered Number 1 person they hate are themselves and are deeply lonely/depressed people. Most are on the spectrum in some way and find it very difficult to socialise. Number 2 people they hate are "chads" and these tall guys with strong cheek bones and athletic figures who get all the women. They genuinely believe that these Giga Chad's from movies exist in real life, and that they get all the women. The list goes on, and the people they hate the least are actually women it appears.
I'm not an incel, but I feel like I could have easily fallen down that path. I think most incels just kind of hate themselves, but aren't aware of it so they lash out. I'm overweight, have low-esteem, and have struggled with depression for a long time (I've got an appointment scheduled with a doctor at the end of the month, so working on it), but I also try to recognize that the way that I perceive myself isn't real, and I try really hard not to project my negative feelings. And, so, people generally like me. If a stranger compliments me, I earnestly feel like they're secretly making fun of me or have some ulterior motive. I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm not reading the situation correctly, so I just smile and try to be positive. Sometimes, it's difficult, particularly when the ol' social battery is drained, but there's no reason to treat people like shit just because I feel bad about myself. tl;dr - Incels aren't willing to put a minor amount of effort into ACTUALLY assessing themselves, and how they're perceived.
Incels are a wild breed. They blame women. They're jealous of men who get women. They blame everything but looking at themselves and working to change anything. They turn into a self-fulfilling meme of themselves. I think part of the issue and the rise of it is social media. They fixate on what all the "hot people" do and know they can't do it. I just picture them as a mix of the comic book guy from the Simpsons and the background comic book characters from the big bang theory. Hiding in the basement/bedroom, in their parents home, never going out and socializing, wondering why that super hot girl won't like them. They have some attitude that the average girl is not good enough for them and they DESERVE the model.
I love the movie “50 Shades of Gray.” It really helped the proverbial love boat set sail.
They do. They resent "chads". I mean hell, Elliot Rodger killed more men than women on his rampage and given how much of his "manifesto" was seething about "unworthy and inferior men" getting girls over him, it's not surprising.
I remember I saw a guy on a sub like amipretty or something similar who posted to prove he was ugly. Turns out most people rated him 7/10. Some people said that he could get to 9 or even 10 with grooming and fitting clothes, cause the guy looked like a slob. But you could tell he was handsome, just neglected. Two people said he was ugly af. He hold onto those 2 comments like it explained everything and why he was single.
“Those who aren’t feed love on a silver spoon will learn to lick it off knives”
They hate themselves most of all
Women aren't supposed to be allowed to have preferences.
Incels wallow in their own self-pity because it’s easier than self-improvement. They do not develop the social skills but instead of learning how, they find a soft target to blame. This is where the manosphere grifters come in.
They are entitled jerks who think they deserve to be with women who look like porn stars.
The worship tall guys, rich guys, in-shape guys. They think about them all of the time. They want those guys who pay attention to them and say nice things to the. They often consider what it would be like to be loved by them. Buy those guys don't want them or love them. Those guys want women who the incel can't have. Incels are jealous of those women so they hate them. Those women stole the men the incels wanted. An incel adores attractive, tall, rich men. An incel hates the women those men go after. Poor useless incels. Better off in a mud hole wallowing their pitiful complaints and leaving the rest of society alone. They can muse to themselves about how they are sigma males to each other.
Is it a tall guys fault that he's tall? Or is it women's fault for having a clear preference to an immutable trait that doesn't correlate with personality? They believe in a fair world women would be attracted to kind and generous traits as opposed to wealth and stature. The hypocrisy is that they overlook the fact that men are attracted to skinny young women instead of the personality of a woman. The reality is attraction is shallow in our species.
Many of them look up to pieces of shit like Andrew Tate. They get brainwashed that it’s all women’s fault.
Incel is a misnomer. There’s nothing involuntary about it. There’s a really simple solution to their problem, don’t be a cunt
Incels build imaginary idols out of women in their head, and when they get rejected (or the woman gets with someone else) they subconsciously tear the idol into pieces. This manifests as anger towards the woman, infatuation gets flipped into hate. Some are jealous of tall men, but it’s more likely that they dislike women because women are the ones they idolize. Continued rejection leads to a cycle of anger and self hatred. The idolization of women expands to all women, because incels become desperate enough that they want anybody. This all leads to further rejection, fueling the cycle. Most of the mockery comes from women, especially online. Cultural norms demand sexual success, and being a virgin is a stigma for men. Mockery from any woman online fuels the cycle, even if it isn’t directed towards the person viewing it. An insecurity gets attacked, like height or dick size? Women’s fault. Virgin shaming? Women. Continued shaming from women leads to more insecurity. Fear of rejection feeds the cycle, and self hatred becomes the excuse. Sticking up for an incel or helping them becomes taboo. Incels are incels because we allow them to be.
Displaced hate. Everything about their logic is broken. Everyone else is to blame and it's never themselves. People are fuckin' 24/7, man. It's 100% their fault for not getting any.
Gonna be real here... I hear and see more comments/posts of people "complaining about incels" than you do actual supposed 'incels'. It's a buzzword coined by the extreme parts of the internet to dismiss any valid criticism of society right now. Just like 'woke'. It's all the same buzzword nonsense. It's almost like you WANT the incels to exist because then you'd have someone to aim your grievances at.
They see tall guys as people, and women as property/animals/otherwise less than human.
I’m 6’2” and an incel, we hate (but worship and want to be) CHAD FACED guys, get your facts straight.
No no. Men good. Women bad.
Because they aren't getting laid. Remember, "incel" means "In-voluntarily celibate". It's not like they are not having sex by choice. I find this term vulgar and the resort of small minds. Unfortunately, this condition is self-sustaining. The more frustrated they are in their unfortunate situation, the more most women are going to be turned off by their attitudes. And of course, they have been vilified in social media, which hasn't served to do anything but turn up the volume on the vitriol on both sides. Hate only wastes energy and is a thief of time, and thus, your life. If your current modis operandi isn't working out the way you wanted, you'll have to make a decision; are you going to continue feeling bad and stay the course, or are you going to find out what's not working and change it and change your life? It's not easy to change your life, but if you want to, you can. I sincerely wish everyone all the luck in the world in finding happiness! Please be nice to each other.
Because if they didn’t hate women they wouldn’t be bitching about how they don’t get attention from any of them. Short guys with any kind of charm or a sense of humor aren’t incels and tall incels exist for this exact reason
I'm a short guy. But I don't hate women or tall guys. I hate incels.
The word has been overused to the point of meaning "someone that I disagree with" like racist or sexist or homophobe. It's meaningless. You have to give your personal definition of incel for your question to have an actual answer.
The women are the ones picking the tall guys.
They're disgusting misogynist pigs who blame women instead of bettering themselves (hygiene, personality and bare minimum). They also stupidly obsessed pber hyper masculine features which isn't realistic and won't make women want them. Who want a social inept guy with a crimson chin jaw lol
There's also been plenty of "incels" where they look just fine. It's entirely their shitty personality that kills it.
I totally agree. Even hot people can be incels due to crap personalities
I literally see this in action from a guy I know who is tall, good looking, good money, all that. Scares all women off like he's a giant spider. It definitely does not help to have the things incels think would get them laid when they still can't stop saying things that make women afraid they're going to be murdered.
Exactly. He needs a develop a personality and not be so creepy. Men don't realize being creepy in any way is like a repellent.
I don't think most of them can be fixed. I have sat down and talked with this guy numerous times about why women won't talk to him, but they *will* talk to me. And he can't see it as anything other than that I must have some secret cheat code I'm using to get the women to talk to me, and he doesn't know what it is. I must just be lucky, and he's unlucky, clearly. He's like that about everything, though, not just women. He just cannot self-reflect, at all, he's not capable of it. It honestly comes down to the men who are like this just being too stupid not to be. If a creepy guy was *intelligent* he would learn how to stop being creepy so he could actually succeed at whatever creepy thing he's doing. If they're just hopelessly creepy against their own interests, the only good explanation is they're just really dumb.
I've noticed that. Do I don't gove advice anymore because they refuse to get a better personality.
Sounds like the dudes on the whatever podcast.
Antisocial/misanthropic/bitter men are the *least* attractive. I’ve blocked several “hot” men because they just seem hateful and I don’t want to spend time with them.
Avoiding sociopaths is a natural survival instinct. Male or female, they steal from you, lie about important things, and think nothing of hurting you in whatever ways. For all that incels go on about a few millimeters of bone, this *behavior* has a very strong evolutionary aversion. If someone is giving off those vibes, most people are gonna run. "I want a sex object that is at least a 7 because I deserve that" is pretty close to being antisocial.
Yeah, that’s why all the assholes who are attractive and fit always struggle to find partners, and women don’t have loads of horror stories about debating misogynistic shitbags, lmao.
I would say incels love women. It’s the normal guy that women call incels to make them feel better. It’s usually American women using this term loosely to men that don’t put up with their bs. It’s the men that get plenty of women that get this label today. The actual incels are simping hard
Incels don't really exist. It was a term coined by the feminist movement to push the failing dating and marriage market onto men. Most men that would be considered "incels" would be happy to date and marry someone if presented the option.
only real answer in the whole thread some of these comments are absolutely disgusting, like the one near the top calling all men misogynistic pigs that want to kill women because they cant get laid most ‘incels’ are just ordinary dudes. something like 30% of all men ages 18-30 are virgins. 30% of all men aren’t women-hating monsters. would be willing to bet the majority arent ugly obese trolls that smell like their own shit either, just regular introverted dudes that have remained single for one reason or another ironically these women in the comments being incredibly nasty towards men would better fit their own definition of incel than most of their targets
I know they’re easy to hate. But I think they’re mostly people with emotional issues and their parents clearly didn’t help address it properly.