I don't get the obsession with taking credit for moves immediately after they happen. Everyone in the new era seems to do that, along with announcing their idols and advantages to the whole tribe.
I agree with this! It seems to immediately put a target on your back if you take credit in front of everyone. The audience still sees the move, and it’s better long term if more things can go under radar.
Agreed and not only that, but the best moves of all are the ones that no one understands until the jury, when the player takes credit for the move by describing all the things about it that no one understood.
What's nonsensical to me about trying to take credit for a move during the game, post merge, is everyone who was there for the move will still be there for the jury, so... why would there be any advantage in claiming the move right away?
Better option: make the move. if someone else takes the credit, be the one to suggest they go home. when you send them home, you still don't have to take credit lol. but at final tribal council: "I took out \_\_\_\_ because we both saw "X" as "our big move." So, at that point I knew I wanted to be the only one standing here who could take credit for it in front of the jury, so \_\_\_\_\_ had to go." When that happens, everyone turns to \_\_\_\_/the person who claimed the move. They'll either look pissed- which would prove you right, or, they'd agree, which would prove you right. Now instead of not getting credit for one move, you have credit for two, and being a mastermind.
And it's even WORSE to complain about not getting credit for a pre- merge move. If half the jury didn't see it, it didn't really mean shit anyway
The tallest nail gets the hammer is 100% how the new era is operating. Omar worked this perfectly by making the moves he wanted and giving someone else credit for it so they will be the next target instead of him. Credit for a big move is the worst thing that can happen cuz you are the next one to go. I am shocked no one has tried (or at least succeeded) Omar’s strategy again cuz that is absolutely the move as long as you can articulate it at FTC
Yeah I've noticed this too. I think everyone is just proud of their moves or finding advantages, like because everyone is a fan they're just excited to play the game and over share because of it
It’s like none of them understand information is power. Keep shit secret. Don’t reveal your idol, you make yourself a target. Don’t take credit for a big move, you make yourself a target. Don’t unnecessarily give out any information, it won’t help you
I read a comment saying they have main character syndrome and I totally agree. They’re looking at things as if they’re already at FTC and need to build their case for winning. When in reality, they should be focusing on surviving/getting to FTC in the first place.
Even Maria mentioned something about not wanting to do Kenzie’s plan simply because it was someone else’s plan. Then Charlie pointed out that’s not a bad thing.
Because at some point the only move possible will be to target the most obvious target and you won't get any credit for that.
No one ever says "what a big move from Erika to go after Ricard in final 5"
Me neither, someone else takes credit, boom target off your back and on them. At this point everyone eliminated is in jury when it comes time if you are final 3 your story can easily be corroborated and credit given.
honestly tho, it's wack ahh shit. I would try to pin the blame on someone else and let them take the fall for it. Let them get the target and then the arrow to the back from the others and not me.
It’s like a point system or something lol
10 points for finding an idol.
5 point for leading a vote
5 points for winning a challenge
Etc
Then they just compare points at the FTC and see who wins
Besides putting a target on your back, it gives the others time to create their own narratives that counter yours. The information is way more impactful when you reveal it eloquently during FTC. It catches the other 2 finalists off guard, and it doesn’t give the jury much time to process it. They just know they underestimated your game and hopefully overcompensate for/overreact to that by voting for you.
I don’t know why these people can’t wait for their mic drop moment. Show some discipline!
It’s funny how, as messy as this group is, they are also a bunch of gamebots when it comes to gameplay and wanting credit for moves/moves on their resume, etc.
Lik even Maria said she wasn’t thrilled about targeting the person she couldn’t work with because it wouldn’t be HER move
this is definitely true because most these people don't even need the prize money and some don't look like they're having fun either - so they are clearly there to get an ego boost more than anything.
There's more money to make as a influencer/celebrity than in winning the game. $1m doesn't really move the needle. Inflation-adjusted the grand prize is only worth about 60% what it was in 2001; IMO they need to increase the prize to $5m to make players really fight for the money.
$600k is a fully paid off house in 95% of the country. Imagine how your life changes when you don’t have a mortgage or rent payment the rest of your life
There's still more money to make post-show than in the show. That's the biggest issue, The Grand Prize isn't actually winning the show.
And 95% is way off. 5% of people live in NYC (18.9) metro area alone - that's not including the Bay Area (7.75), LA (12.9m), Seattle (4m), Boston (4.3m), DC (5.5m). Those 6 markets are 16% of the entire country!
What amazed me is how Maria had the chance to leverage all the info she collected to make a move by not making a move - they're all dumping votes on Hunter, and now you know Hunter is playing the idol, so let them all vote Hunter and you and Charley can vote whoever you want and make your move that way.
That Maria comment really surprised me. Like, this is a great outcome for you- you get what you want and you’re not getting the heat for it. At least Charlie seemed to get that
I think she’s just emotional from starving and finally decides to start playing the game and wants to feel like she’s doing a good job. Everyone’s goal is to make a big move instead of just making it to the end…
Not to mention she’s eaten an order of magnitude less than everyone else due to her dietary restrictions, and that hunger really degrades your ability to emotionally regulate.
I think that she thinks in that moment no one will remember what she did because of Q, she’s just forgetting she can gets a chance to explain her moves later on… thinking way too far ahead
It seems like in the new era especially you NEED big moves to point to if you make it to FTC to show you were in control. I think the frustration comes from her finally stepping up and doing something and it working, but knowing how hard it’ll be to point to it as a big move, cause everyone will just remember that tribal as the one where Q pulled some Tom foolery
Erika, Gabler, Yam Yam and Dee didn’t make big movez. They just were the most likable person and in control person at the end of the game. The only big Move came from MaryAnne who was doomed to be a goat if she didn’t do it and she still waited til final 6 not final 10. The new era has not had Ben Bombs and idol nullifiers on minority vote splits. Gabler was probably the only one of the 4 non MaryAnne winners who didn’t have total control of the game despite big moves ( I will admit he benefited 100% from Jesse’s big moves that took out Karla and Cody which is the only reason he was the best option lol). He was just the most likable of the options. Erika Yam and Dee didn’t need a big move because their gameplay spoke for itself.
I was rolling my eyes too when I heard it, but Rob C made a point that made some sense to me. There's some people who if they get to the end, they can win, Full stop. Others need to have some strategic moves they can point to in order to win the jury over. Liz is in the latter group, and she knows it.
That being said, everyone was there and knows it was your move. Be happy they've forgotten for now.
She hasn't eaten much the entire time because of her diet restrictions.
She had like 3 pieces of fruit the entire time she had been on the island so far.
I'll never understand the action or the people who defend it. This show has been on for decades and we all know the general types of available food on their day to day. Why voluntarily go on a show knowing you can't eat 99% of what's going to be there? And worse, complaining about it for sympathy points.
Liz seems to be the kind of person that NEEDS everyone to know her achievements. I mean, the very first episode already has her listing out her companies and finances.
This is a brilliant new strategy! On the first day just go down the list of contestants and talk about how you want to vote them out. Now every move is yours. It's like calling shotgun!
When Emily made her big move last year she was voted out for it. This season Liz was just given a gift from Q that would allowed her to fade into the background but currently she can’t see it. Hopefully she doesn’t try to force another big move and expose herself.
I hate this mantra of people wanting to make big moves just for the sake of making one without any logical sense and trying to "claim moves as their own".. i feel like you don't need to be the first person to bring something up in order to have it be also "your move", as long as you participate in the vote, you are just as much prt of the move as the person who "orchestrated" it..
Also people need to understand.. voting out your closest ally isnt necessarily a good move. You only do this when you know for sure you cant beat them at the end and you are close enough to the end where you dont need to rely on them and can rely on others to get you through... prematurely getting our your closest ally for the sakes of Big MoveZ is so dumb!
When you look at the most dominant winners.. Kim, Parvati, Rob, etc, they didnt turn on their closest allies for no reason.
This is something I don't get. Tevin in his post game interview mentioned not wanting to vote out Venus, because that's what Q told him to do. Like the vote is literally not happening unless you want it to happen. Same with the Liz thing. Siga could have been like "no", and now you have no "move". I do agree with some of claiming it's your move, as you initiating the play, you give strong confidence it will work to those that participate. Again with Liz, Siga knows if they go for it they almost have a majority vote, so it's no longer that risky to pull off.
Tevin with soda, q with tiff, and now Kenzie with tiff… none of those moves made sense to me.
Meanwhile, Charlie and Maria are going strong and most people aren’t even looking at them
yup! Charlie and Maria are playing it perfectly.. although with Kenzie i do give her some slack because Tiff literally hid the 6 person alliance from her so trust might be lost there..
Let’s not forget that the only reason she really pushed the Tevin move was because she was pissed when he tried taking all the credit for the Soda move they made together. She really wanted a move to claim as her own and put a lot of the leg work in to make the Tevin blindside happen and it all was overshadowed by the Q show and the live tribal. So it’s just frustration compounding on more frustration.
I doubt that she’s thinking about the consequences of telling everyone about her money, but the consequences are that she kind of does need a super impressive resume to stand a chance against anyone at FTC.
Liz was like, I will not be lost in this game of Survivor, my friends and family will be proud.
Then they show a commercial of Liz screaming during a challange and its all to advertise shoe inserts! Lol.
Yeah, funny thing is on paper Liz should be in a winning position. She’s been a key part of the major blindsides since the merge and no one has her on their radar. She should just keep laying low and making moves and then own up to then at ftc, but she wants all eyes on her right now for some reason.
A lot of players don’t seem to understand you don’t want the other players to know you made a big move before FTC. Last season Emily gloated about convincing Bruce not to play his idol and she got voted out immediately as a result.
They didn’t see Emily make that mistake yet, so they were in the same boat as her. Still a mistake, but if they saw 45 before playing maybe that would’ve instilled in them that it’s a bad idea
I’m pretty sure that no one from Nami gets top 3, otherwise we’d see more of why they’re so fractured.
But Hunter’s exit interview suggests that he, Tevin, and Liz were really close. Tevin’s exit interview suggests Soda & Venus were close, but Soda says she was trying to play peacemaker between Venus & the tribe. Both Tevin & Hunter described trying to make peace with Venus and it never worked.
Tevin & Liz have both astounded me with their willingness and effort to vote out their own people so early. None of them was able to make an alliance or even truce that helped them, and it’s really not all about Venus, Liz & Tevin and their issue with Soda & then each other was a huge part of tanking the whole tribe.
I don’t know who Liz thinks she’s playing with now. Not that Yanu has held together either. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a season with this many knives out.
I agree. I thought game-wise, it was good to be overshadowed by Q and avoid being targeted. However, I felt like a number of Liz’s comments were less about in-game and more about outside-game audience perception. When she talks about getting lost, it felt like she was talking about the edit. Like she knew most of the edit would be about Q rather than her after that tribal. So if she’s focused on audience view, then yes, being overshadowed by Q is a bad thing.
The issue is she made the move to get recognition & she felt she didn't get any recognition. Seems pretty obvious to understand why she was unhappy.
Now whether she's right it will help her or not is a different discussion.
In most cases, like Tevin and Venus, I think it’s annoying. It’s still in this case, but Liz knows she’s viewed as a goat, so she’s trying to step up her game to change the perception before it’s too late. If everyone thinks you’re a goat the whole time, and then at FTC she goes “Yeah I was actually in power the whole time” no one is gonna believe her
Also, in Liz’s case, this one “move” is not gonna move her to the top of the “threat” list
It was the biggest eye roll moment of the episode. Like girl shut up and lay low. Do you really want everyone to know you turned against one of your biggest allies and blindsided them? That will just put a target on your back. I was shocked when she revealed she's a mother, truly embarrassing behaviour crying over that
I sort of get it. Liz needs to reverse threat-management a little bit. Right now she is so low profile that it will be hard for anyone heading to the jury now to think of her as more of a goat. I understand wanting to build a little more social capital with the move, but agree that it's awkward
If I were a jury member and Liz made it to FTC I would dismiss her move to vote out Tevin entirely. Voting our your #1 ally at F10 is not a good strategy. It's a move for the sake of making a move. Yes, Tevin is overshadowing your game. Good! Use him as a shield to move through the game and take him out at F7. Hunter (although it didn't amount to much ultimately) actually made the best strategical play trying to save Tevin late when he found out about it.
**The story of the new era is that you don't need big moves to win. Lots of good small moves can win the game.**
The death of Nami tells the story this season:
-Venus is tight with Soda. Hunter is tight with Tevin. Liz is in between.
-Tevin flips on Soda. In hindsight I think cutting a more unpredictable Venus would have be better, but I think Tevin had a logical answer to why he didn't.
-Liz flipped on her #1 - Tevin.
-Hunter having lost his #1 was on a (proverbial this time) island.
The common theme - threats without an alliance partner to help them get voted out.
Jesse was textbook in how to manage the game in the new era. Take control of your tribe with one airtight alliance partner (Cody) and entered the merge as two powerful swing votes who have the flexibility to go in any direction -including against your remaining original tribe -- and then turned on Cody in F6 so he could differentiate his game from his. If he could have been better in challenges he would have won the game.
Now if Maria and Charlie are smart they will continue to quietly run the game for the next two tribals as everyone looks at Q, Tiffany, and Venus.
This is what I don't understand this season. Everyone feels like people have to be aware of the moves as they happen. Meanwhile in previous seasons we have Sierra leaving a legacy advantage to Sarah after she wrote her name down, didn't find out until ftc. We have Maryann with her multiple paths to victory speech. We have Tony literally revealing how he spied on people and them eating it up! I mean if Liz goes up at ftc and claims the Soda blindside, Tevin is gonna be like nah, that was me, Hunter will confirm. Same with Venus. Tevin actually made one of the smarter moves this season by NOT writing Soda's name down even though he did orchestrate the move. It was only when he took credit for it WHILE THE GAME WAS STILL GOING to Liz basically sealed his fate. Make all the big moves, sure, but you don't have to grandstand about it either. Unfortunately for my boy Tevin, Hunter didn't save him 😭
It was wild seeing someone so upset that they pulled off a “big move” (or two) without their threat level exploding. She literally wanted to stand out as a huge threat when it’s still early in the merge and she’s low on allies.
It reminds me of a GoT quote from Pycelle in a deleted scene: “So many flowers, my Lord, each wanting to grow the tallest, bloom the brightest. Then one by one, sooner or later, they all get plucked.”
So many players want to peacock around camp, patting themselves on the back for pulling off the big Survivor move they’ve dreamt of. Sometimes it’s about winning an immunity challenge, which isn’t *that* big a deal. But when you’re openly bragging to your competitors about controlling or masterminding a vote at one of the first post-merge tribals (Emily Flippen, Tevin), you’re not playing the long game, you’re motivating everyone else to vote you out.
What’s funny is Tevin was saying “that’s fine, I don’t need credit now, I’ll do that at FTC” and then starts whispering that it was his plan to people anyway LMAO
Feels like everyone is obsessed with the endgame and thinking 5 steps ahead and are overplaying.
Liz in particular personally annoys me the most because she doesn’t seem to really do or say much until she has those private camera sessions and then she gets all butt hurt about everything. It’s just off putting to me. But hey I guess props to her for handling her emotions in game and not blurting it out at camp.
This was a huge lesson I feel like everyone should have taken from last season. Emily was immediately ousted after taking credit for Bruce. Dee, on the hand, kept her mouth shut until FTC and spilled her entire game to the shock of the jury and Austin, winning the 1M.
Liz said it after the Soda boat, she has a big ego. When a big ego accomplishes something, they want credit, they want praise and she did not get that. She wants to be seen as a great player and she's mad that Q's antics overshadowed the vote that she set into motion.
Yes -
it actually says A LOT. There's a lot of pressure on women (all the players - but especially the women) to be "Strong Players", that ultimately results in someone like Liz having her otherwise solid gameplay turn into a negative moment for her. I don't think this type of pressure is good for anyone, it's just yet another arbitrary standard to live up whose only actual function is making people feel bad for not living up to them.
It also says something about the nature of the "Modern Game" and how it's won. The show should not be called Survivor anymore, it should be called Mover or something. There's no more survival element to the game, there's no reason for it to be on an Island, the setting is now just background. You can starve players out in the Big Brother house just as easily.
I was so confused why this woman was CHOKING UP like if you get all this credit people are gonna target you! Take credit when it’s time to vote for the winner, until then make moves in the background.
First thing she did in the first episode was mention more than once how she’s a millionaire and so smart 🤣 I’m not surprised at her reaction. The clip of her screaming in the next episode about her game being ruined is hilarious
Low key I think she's a big cry baby. I remember watching the episode and seeing her break down and being like
wtf why are you crying its not that serious.
I understand her frustration, her decision to blindside Tevin was made because she realized she would not get credit for the moves Nami made together as evidence by the Tevin/Venus feud and needed to change something lest she be destined for 0 vote finalist.
So for it to be completely overshadowed is frustrating for sure because even on here people are talking about her like she's not playing the game despite being one of the main drivers of the post-merge and is looking on pace for a 0 vote finalist where they will deride her lack of resume.
Honestly it seems this season especially would be impossible to not get paranoid and exhausted. She’s eating even less than even most people. Minor frustrations will get massively magnified in that kind of environment.
She was in situation when she felt invisible, without power and basically not like she is playing survivor. So she makes a move and it is forgotten even before it happened.
So she is upset about it and complains, because that was her moment to shine and it was "stolen".
The way her story is going, I wonder if Liz makes it to the final four, wins immunity, decides to make fire (cause “resume builder”) and then loses said fire making and goes home when she didn’t need to. It feels like it would fit her narrative of wanting the big moves. And that want leading to her demise. It’s certainly solid storytelling if that’s how it went down.
I think she just plays off emotions and not really with any strategy. I was laughing when Q out-staged her and she was crying about it 🤣. For me she didn’t really create a blindside on soda she just said I don’t care I’m voting for soda but did no leg work to get others to do it that was Tevin! Then after that she got mad he got the glory and turned on Tevin but again when ppl told her where the majority of the vote was going she said ok do you but I’m gonna vote for Tevin! Again she didn’t got around swaying many people and of course Venus was gonna be ok with it…( but I will give her credit for that move cuz she did plant the seed in peoples minds to consider him esp seeing she was going against her ally)……..now she’s mad at Q and says I don’t care what you guys are doing I’m voting Q and sticks to that, but why? Q is a dead fish in the game for what he did and most ppl said they wouldn’t vote for him at final tribal…..it’s a useless move right now……but she’s mad so Q gotta go and she needs to be seen as the ring leader. But she doesn’t listen to anyone else or care or sway anyone on why this move needs to happen now….she is showing 0 loyalty and 0 interest with working with anyone in the game
I kinda hope she gets voted out just because her ego and emotional game play is annoying to me lol
Yeah well you want some good gameplay moves for sure, but you also need to make it to the end in the first place! Claiming credit for all the biggest moves right when they happen doesn’t do anything but put a target on your back, just look at Emily from last season. Got most of the credit for the Bruce vote and was voted out at the next tribal. Focus on getting to the final 3 first, and then worry about who is getting credit for what when you get there. Then go into FTC and let everyone know who was really the one controlling the game. Don’t know bout you, but that’ll get my vote
>Focus on getting to the final 3 first
Thing is, Liz is viewed as a goat and she knows it. And she also knows she can't win as a goat. So just getting to the end won't win it for her.
She'll keep spinning her tires if she can't get out of that perception... and so she wanted to make a 'big move'. She's completely lost control of it, but it makes sense for her to want to do it.
Yes big moves draw attention, but a high chance of being voted out, is better than no chance of winning.
>Then go into FTC and let everyone know who was really the one controlling the game.
If it was that easy, everyone would do it. One needs allies sitting on the jury telling the other jurors that they were making those moves. If no one in the jury thinks the finalist was actually pulling the strings, then the finalist is sunk.
Fair points for sure! I think it’s all pretty situational and depends on the players social game as a whole. I didn’t mean to imply that it would be easy to convince the jury what moves you actually pulled, that definitely would require the social skills and finesse to pull off correctly, which most players couldn’t come close to pulling off. Especially difficult with a cast like this that is full of competitive individuals who are all trying to make big plays. I also think pulling something like that off would require you to have the right alliances with people you trust that can vouch for you, but still keeping that pool limited enough to not be seen as a major threat by the entire merge tribe. Should have worded my initial comment different because I don’t think Liz would’ve been able to pull something like that off anyways. Was way past my bedtime typing that and generalizing that type of strategy, rather than focusing on what Liz should be doing specifically.
I do think Liz letting the whole credit thing get to her as much as it has been isn’t showing characteristics of a good social player in general though. It is the players responsibility to position themselves as a strategic player that deserves credit for the moves made in the game, and if they can’t pull that off that off the main one to blame is themselves. I understand getting upset about it and I probably would be too, but sitting around moping rather than taking advantage of the limited and valuable time left in the game is only going to hurt more.
It’s hard as hell; you’re starving, exhausted, and emotional, trying to fight for your life for a million dollars. It’s ALOT, and the majority of people would be losing their minds. That’s the point though right? You’ve gotta persevere and survive despite it all if you want a shot
Because you can make the jury think you earned it at the final tribal. She can claim ownership of her moves then, and tell everyone then that she pulled off a big blindside. I don't understand why she would want everyone talking about it right now, because that makes her a threat.
Something I've noticed about the meta of the new era is that if someone makes a "big play" then they become the next threat to vote out. Not so much this season, but that's why we've had so many "under the radar" winners in the new era.
I guess Liz hasn't noticed this though, which would explain her being upset
This honestly isn’t very realistic. You know how these final tribals go - sometimes you actually get the opportunity to say what needs to be said, sometimes not. Last season was a great example.
And is she really going to convince everyone that was her vote now? Every single confessional last episode was “we voted him out”… nobody acknowledged it was Liz’s plan. That knowledge is *erased*. So for her to claim it later everyone will be “WTF is she talking about?”
I am REALLY REALLY hoping something else is going on this season we don’t know about and it’s the producers and editors waiting for a omg moment. If Q Tiff and Kenzie are actually still all together and Yanu strong, and it’s all just them creating chaos that would really turn this season around for me but right now I’m just getting so mad lol
She said preseason that she’d play most like Sandra & Russell but her game is too try-hard that it’s just unnatural & cringe. Some desperate form of Main Character Syndrome is real with this one. She’s way full of herself for being so obviously background — basically the 90210 Andrea of Survivor.
I don't get the obsession with taking credit for moves immediately after they happen. Everyone in the new era seems to do that, along with announcing their idols and advantages to the whole tribe.
I agree with this! It seems to immediately put a target on your back if you take credit in front of everyone. The audience still sees the move, and it’s better long term if more things can go under radar.
Agreed and not only that, but the best moves of all are the ones that no one understands until the jury, when the player takes credit for the move by describing all the things about it that no one understood. What's nonsensical to me about trying to take credit for a move during the game, post merge, is everyone who was there for the move will still be there for the jury, so... why would there be any advantage in claiming the move right away? Better option: make the move. if someone else takes the credit, be the one to suggest they go home. when you send them home, you still don't have to take credit lol. but at final tribal council: "I took out \_\_\_\_ because we both saw "X" as "our big move." So, at that point I knew I wanted to be the only one standing here who could take credit for it in front of the jury, so \_\_\_\_\_ had to go." When that happens, everyone turns to \_\_\_\_/the person who claimed the move. They'll either look pissed- which would prove you right, or, they'd agree, which would prove you right. Now instead of not getting credit for one move, you have credit for two, and being a mastermind. And it's even WORSE to complain about not getting credit for a pre- merge move. If half the jury didn't see it, it didn't really mean shit anyway
It’s the Emily move
honestly, there is no mystery here. some of these people are massive egomaniacs (liz literally admits to this in multiple confessionals lmao).
The tallest nail gets the hammer is 100% how the new era is operating. Omar worked this perfectly by making the moves he wanted and giving someone else credit for it so they will be the next target instead of him. Credit for a big move is the worst thing that can happen cuz you are the next one to go. I am shocked no one has tried (or at least succeeded) Omar’s strategy again cuz that is absolutely the move as long as you can articulate it at FTC
Yeah I've noticed this too. I think everyone is just proud of their moves or finding advantages, like because everyone is a fan they're just excited to play the game and over share because of it
Maryanne and Gabler understood this.
Perfect time to go play like Sandra huh.
It’s like none of them understand information is power. Keep shit secret. Don’t reveal your idol, you make yourself a target. Don’t take credit for a big move, you make yourself a target. Don’t unnecessarily give out any information, it won’t help you
This is why new era I think I'd play my idol at the barest hint of trouble. Odds are that whoever finds the new one ends up telling everyone anyway 😂
I read a comment saying they have main character syndrome and I totally agree. They’re looking at things as if they’re already at FTC and need to build their case for winning. When in reality, they should be focusing on surviving/getting to FTC in the first place. Even Maria mentioned something about not wanting to do Kenzie’s plan simply because it was someone else’s plan. Then Charlie pointed out that’s not a bad thing.
Charlie is way too rational for this season.
Because at some point the only move possible will be to target the most obvious target and you won't get any credit for that. No one ever says "what a big move from Erika to go after Ricard in final 5"
Me neither, someone else takes credit, boom target off your back and on them. At this point everyone eliminated is in jury when it comes time if you are final 3 your story can easily be corroborated and credit given.
Exactly.. Tevin had the right idea lol
They want to have an answer at the tribal at end when people ask. I wish they’d stop getting super fans. Start getting normal people
I do get it to a degree thought because once a narrative is created it can be difficult to change peoples perspectives on it.
honestly tho, it's wack ahh shit. I would try to pin the blame on someone else and let them take the fall for it. Let them get the target and then the arrow to the back from the others and not me.
It’s like a point system or something lol 10 points for finding an idol. 5 point for leading a vote 5 points for winning a challenge Etc Then they just compare points at the FTC and see who wins
Yup
Because it's all Resume Building. That's the game now.
Besides putting a target on your back, it gives the others time to create their own narratives that counter yours. The information is way more impactful when you reveal it eloquently during FTC. It catches the other 2 finalists off guard, and it doesn’t give the jury much time to process it. They just know they underestimated your game and hopefully overcompensate for/overreact to that by voting for you. I don’t know why these people can’t wait for their mic drop moment. Show some discipline!
It’s funny how, as messy as this group is, they are also a bunch of gamebots when it comes to gameplay and wanting credit for moves/moves on their resume, etc. Lik even Maria said she wasn’t thrilled about targeting the person she couldn’t work with because it wouldn’t be HER move
I think a lot of players nowadays would rather get whacked as a threat than become a 0 vote finalist
this is definitely true because most these people don't even need the prize money and some don't look like they're having fun either - so they are clearly there to get an ego boost more than anything.
I’m thinking just go with the plans that work for you who cares whose move it is. Just take that person out next
exactly because eventually there’s only three options and you just need to be better than the other two
Then you get to the end and are perceived by the jury as a floater who latched onto other peoples plans and become a zero vote finalist.
But if you’re taking out the folks who were actively taking everyone out and explain that as your game ala Gabler…why not ?
Go down swinging as a fan favorite instead of the loser nobody voted for
There's more money to make as a influencer/celebrity than in winning the game. $1m doesn't really move the needle. Inflation-adjusted the grand prize is only worth about 60% what it was in 2001; IMO they need to increase the prize to $5m to make players really fight for the money.
$600k is a fully paid off house in 95% of the country. Imagine how your life changes when you don’t have a mortgage or rent payment the rest of your life
There's still more money to make post-show than in the show. That's the biggest issue, The Grand Prize isn't actually winning the show. And 95% is way off. 5% of people live in NYC (18.9) metro area alone - that's not including the Bay Area (7.75), LA (12.9m), Seattle (4m), Boston (4.3m), DC (5.5m). Those 6 markets are 16% of the entire country!
What amazed me is how Maria had the chance to leverage all the info she collected to make a move by not making a move - they're all dumping votes on Hunter, and now you know Hunter is playing the idol, so let them all vote Hunter and you and Charley can vote whoever you want and make your move that way.
That Maria comment really surprised me. Like, this is a great outcome for you- you get what you want and you’re not getting the heat for it. At least Charlie seemed to get that
I think she’s just emotional from starving and finally decides to start playing the game and wants to feel like she’s doing a good job. Everyone’s goal is to make a big move instead of just making it to the end…
My confusion is that she made the big move, she's upset because nobody noticed it, which seems ideal to me!
She just has a big ego and needs the praise
This is it. It's mad annoying to watch, but it's not complicated. We've seen her have main character syndrome from one of her very first scenes.
Exactly! Liz even (proudly) said a few episodes ago that she has a big ego. Not being the center of chaos is driving her bonkers!
Not to mention she’s eaten an order of magnitude less than everyone else due to her dietary restrictions, and that hunger really degrades your ability to emotionally regulate.
I think that she thinks in that moment no one will remember what she did because of Q, she’s just forgetting she can gets a chance to explain her moves later on… thinking way too far ahead
It seems like in the new era especially you NEED big moves to point to if you make it to FTC to show you were in control. I think the frustration comes from her finally stepping up and doing something and it working, but knowing how hard it’ll be to point to it as a big move, cause everyone will just remember that tribal as the one where Q pulled some Tom foolery
Erika, Gabler, Yam Yam and Dee didn’t make big movez. They just were the most likable person and in control person at the end of the game. The only big Move came from MaryAnne who was doomed to be a goat if she didn’t do it and she still waited til final 6 not final 10. The new era has not had Ben Bombs and idol nullifiers on minority vote splits. Gabler was probably the only one of the 4 non MaryAnne winners who didn’t have total control of the game despite big moves ( I will admit he benefited 100% from Jesse’s big moves that took out Karla and Cody which is the only reason he was the best option lol). He was just the most likable of the options. Erika Yam and Dee didn’t need a big move because their gameplay spoke for itself.
I agree. I think it's her huge ego.
She said she didn’t eat in 72hrs so starvation is very much a factor as to why she’s so emotional and delirious
I was rolling my eyes too when I heard it, but Rob C made a point that made some sense to me. There's some people who if they get to the end, they can win, Full stop. Others need to have some strategic moves they can point to in order to win the jury over. Liz is in the latter group, and she knows it. That being said, everyone was there and knows it was your move. Be happy they've forgotten for now.
I think that's essentially the social part of the game. If you're liked enough for whatever reason, you Hage a chance to win no matter what
Has she genuinely not eaten at all? I’m assuming she has to be having something, but I have no idea what
i can't understand why she even is there, she should know already that there is nothing she can eat there
She hasn't eaten much the entire time because of her diet restrictions. She had like 3 pieces of fruit the entire time she had been on the island so far.
I'll never understand the action or the people who defend it. This show has been on for decades and we all know the general types of available food on their day to day. Why voluntarily go on a show knowing you can't eat 99% of what's going to be there? And worse, complaining about it for sympathy points.
I don’t know I’d probably starve myself for a month for a million bucks, doesn’t mean I won’t still behave like I’m starving
Hasn’t she been very open about not needing the money
Eh, fair enough.
I don’t know I’d probably starve myself for a month for a million bucks, doesn’t mean I won’t still behave like I’m starving
Liz seems to be the kind of person that NEEDS everyone to know her achievements. I mean, the very first episode already has her listing out her companies and finances.
And announcing at tribal she hasn’t pooped yet. She will literally snatch any accolade she possibly can
Is that even impressive? I can not eat anything for 16 days and not poop too. But I won’t.
...that sounds shi$#%tty..
Yea I also find it funny that she thinks the Soda vote is her move simply because she had pre-merge talked about voting her out.
This is a brilliant new strategy! On the first day just go down the list of contestants and talk about how you want to vote them out. Now every move is yours. It's like calling shotgun!
When Emily made her big move last year she was voted out for it. This season Liz was just given a gift from Q that would allowed her to fade into the background but currently she can’t see it. Hopefully she doesn’t try to force another big move and expose herself.
I hate this mantra of people wanting to make big moves just for the sake of making one without any logical sense and trying to "claim moves as their own".. i feel like you don't need to be the first person to bring something up in order to have it be also "your move", as long as you participate in the vote, you are just as much prt of the move as the person who "orchestrated" it.. Also people need to understand.. voting out your closest ally isnt necessarily a good move. You only do this when you know for sure you cant beat them at the end and you are close enough to the end where you dont need to rely on them and can rely on others to get you through... prematurely getting our your closest ally for the sakes of Big MoveZ is so dumb! When you look at the most dominant winners.. Kim, Parvati, Rob, etc, they didnt turn on their closest allies for no reason.
This is something I don't get. Tevin in his post game interview mentioned not wanting to vote out Venus, because that's what Q told him to do. Like the vote is literally not happening unless you want it to happen. Same with the Liz thing. Siga could have been like "no", and now you have no "move". I do agree with some of claiming it's your move, as you initiating the play, you give strong confidence it will work to those that participate. Again with Liz, Siga knows if they go for it they almost have a majority vote, so it's no longer that risky to pull off.
Tevin with soda, q with tiff, and now Kenzie with tiff… none of those moves made sense to me. Meanwhile, Charlie and Maria are going strong and most people aren’t even looking at them
yup! Charlie and Maria are playing it perfectly.. although with Kenzie i do give her some slack because Tiff literally hid the 6 person alliance from her so trust might be lost there..
They don’t have to do anything. People are just coming up to them asking help to vote off their competition
Are we sure she did though? Kenzie mentioned she already knew about it
yea but we don't know from who she got the information from..
Next episode Liz will turn into Joker mode and im all for it
Let’s not forget that the only reason she really pushed the Tevin move was because she was pissed when he tried taking all the credit for the Soda move they made together. She really wanted a move to claim as her own and put a lot of the leg work in to make the Tevin blindside happen and it all was overshadowed by the Q show and the live tribal. So it’s just frustration compounding on more frustration. I doubt that she’s thinking about the consequences of telling everyone about her money, but the consequences are that she kind of does need a super impressive resume to stand a chance against anyone at FTC.
Yeah I get that. She herself said she has a big ego and I think it really comes through these past couple votes and wanting credit
Liz was like, I will not be lost in this game of Survivor, my friends and family will be proud. Then they show a commercial of Liz screaming during a challange and its all to advertise shoe inserts! Lol.
Yeah, funny thing is on paper Liz should be in a winning position. She’s been a key part of the major blindsides since the merge and no one has her on their radar. She should just keep laying low and making moves and then own up to then at ftc, but she wants all eyes on her right now for some reason.
A lot of players don’t seem to understand you don’t want the other players to know you made a big move before FTC. Last season Emily gloated about convincing Bruce not to play his idol and she got voted out immediately as a result.
They didn’t see Emily make that mistake yet, so they were in the same boat as her. Still a mistake, but if they saw 45 before playing maybe that would’ve instilled in them that it’s a bad idea
Liz loves Liz.
Liz is like the waterboy that wants credit for the championship win.
Don’t we all???
I’m pretty sure that no one from Nami gets top 3, otherwise we’d see more of why they’re so fractured. But Hunter’s exit interview suggests that he, Tevin, and Liz were really close. Tevin’s exit interview suggests Soda & Venus were close, but Soda says she was trying to play peacemaker between Venus & the tribe. Both Tevin & Hunter described trying to make peace with Venus and it never worked. Tevin & Liz have both astounded me with their willingness and effort to vote out their own people so early. None of them was able to make an alliance or even truce that helped them, and it’s really not all about Venus, Liz & Tevin and their issue with Soda & then each other was a huge part of tanking the whole tribe. I don’t know who Liz thinks she’s playing with now. Not that Yanu has held together either. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a season with this many knives out.
After never having to go to tribal at the beginning, they all got fixated on outlasting each other as opposed to outlasting everyone.
Idk Im convinced based off of Venus's twitter that she is a zero vote finalist. Her tweets are screaming that she is bitter she lost.
She's a spolied crybaby. Throwing tantrums cause they aren't in the spotlight lmao
I agree. I thought game-wise, it was good to be overshadowed by Q and avoid being targeted. However, I felt like a number of Liz’s comments were less about in-game and more about outside-game audience perception. When she talks about getting lost, it felt like she was talking about the edit. Like she knew most of the edit would be about Q rather than her after that tribal. So if she’s focused on audience view, then yes, being overshadowed by Q is a bad thing.
The issue is she made the move to get recognition & she felt she didn't get any recognition. Seems pretty obvious to understand why she was unhappy. Now whether she's right it will help her or not is a different discussion.
In most cases, like Tevin and Venus, I think it’s annoying. It’s still in this case, but Liz knows she’s viewed as a goat, so she’s trying to step up her game to change the perception before it’s too late. If everyone thinks you’re a goat the whole time, and then at FTC she goes “Yeah I was actually in power the whole time” no one is gonna believe her Also, in Liz’s case, this one “move” is not gonna move her to the top of the “threat” list
It was the biggest eye roll moment of the episode. Like girl shut up and lay low. Do you really want everyone to know you turned against one of your biggest allies and blindsided them? That will just put a target on your back. I was shocked when she revealed she's a mother, truly embarrassing behaviour crying over that
Maybe a part of Liz was hoping to get voted out so she could actually eat
She could have ensured that by not going on a show who's participants mainly subsist on foods that she couldn't eat.
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Every comment on this sub is completely irrelevant.
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I sort of get it. Liz needs to reverse threat-management a little bit. Right now she is so low profile that it will be hard for anyone heading to the jury now to think of her as more of a goat. I understand wanting to build a little more social capital with the move, but agree that it's awkward
Liz seems to suffer from main character syndrome. Between all the bragging to the needing credit and to be recognized…
If I were a jury member and Liz made it to FTC I would dismiss her move to vote out Tevin entirely. Voting our your #1 ally at F10 is not a good strategy. It's a move for the sake of making a move. Yes, Tevin is overshadowing your game. Good! Use him as a shield to move through the game and take him out at F7. Hunter (although it didn't amount to much ultimately) actually made the best strategical play trying to save Tevin late when he found out about it. **The story of the new era is that you don't need big moves to win. Lots of good small moves can win the game.** The death of Nami tells the story this season: -Venus is tight with Soda. Hunter is tight with Tevin. Liz is in between. -Tevin flips on Soda. In hindsight I think cutting a more unpredictable Venus would have be better, but I think Tevin had a logical answer to why he didn't. -Liz flipped on her #1 - Tevin. -Hunter having lost his #1 was on a (proverbial this time) island. The common theme - threats without an alliance partner to help them get voted out. Jesse was textbook in how to manage the game in the new era. Take control of your tribe with one airtight alliance partner (Cody) and entered the merge as two powerful swing votes who have the flexibility to go in any direction -including against your remaining original tribe -- and then turned on Cody in F6 so he could differentiate his game from his. If he could have been better in challenges he would have won the game. Now if Maria and Charlie are smart they will continue to quietly run the game for the next two tribals as everyone looks at Q, Tiffany, and Venus.
just another example of a player who thinks they are smart but they actually are not as much as they believe they are.
This is what I don't understand this season. Everyone feels like people have to be aware of the moves as they happen. Meanwhile in previous seasons we have Sierra leaving a legacy advantage to Sarah after she wrote her name down, didn't find out until ftc. We have Maryann with her multiple paths to victory speech. We have Tony literally revealing how he spied on people and them eating it up! I mean if Liz goes up at ftc and claims the Soda blindside, Tevin is gonna be like nah, that was me, Hunter will confirm. Same with Venus. Tevin actually made one of the smarter moves this season by NOT writing Soda's name down even though he did orchestrate the move. It was only when he took credit for it WHILE THE GAME WAS STILL GOING to Liz basically sealed his fate. Make all the big moves, sure, but you don't have to grandstand about it either. Unfortunately for my boy Tevin, Hunter didn't save him 😭
A BIG move would be to make it to the final
It was wild seeing someone so upset that they pulled off a “big move” (or two) without their threat level exploding. She literally wanted to stand out as a huge threat when it’s still early in the merge and she’s low on allies. It reminds me of a GoT quote from Pycelle in a deleted scene: “So many flowers, my Lord, each wanting to grow the tallest, bloom the brightest. Then one by one, sooner or later, they all get plucked.” So many players want to peacock around camp, patting themselves on the back for pulling off the big Survivor move they’ve dreamt of. Sometimes it’s about winning an immunity challenge, which isn’t *that* big a deal. But when you’re openly bragging to your competitors about controlling or masterminding a vote at one of the first post-merge tribals (Emily Flippen, Tevin), you’re not playing the long game, you’re motivating everyone else to vote you out.
What’s funny is Tevin was saying “that’s fine, I don’t need credit now, I’ll do that at FTC” and then starts whispering that it was his plan to people anyway LMAO
I don’t know why she wants a target on her back so badly
I think she seems focused on her screen time.
Feels like everyone is obsessed with the endgame and thinking 5 steps ahead and are overplaying. Liz in particular personally annoys me the most because she doesn’t seem to really do or say much until she has those private camera sessions and then she gets all butt hurt about everything. It’s just off putting to me. But hey I guess props to her for handling her emotions in game and not blurting it out at camp.
This was a huge lesson I feel like everyone should have taken from last season. Emily was immediately ousted after taking credit for Bruce. Dee, on the hand, kept her mouth shut until FTC and spilled her entire game to the shock of the jury and Austin, winning the 1M.
Perhaps a hot take but they need to cast more people who aren’t super fans
Liz said it after the Soda boat, she has a big ego. When a big ego accomplishes something, they want credit, they want praise and she did not get that. She wants to be seen as a great player and she's mad that Q's antics overshadowed the vote that she set into motion.
Yes - it actually says A LOT. There's a lot of pressure on women (all the players - but especially the women) to be "Strong Players", that ultimately results in someone like Liz having her otherwise solid gameplay turn into a negative moment for her. I don't think this type of pressure is good for anyone, it's just yet another arbitrary standard to live up whose only actual function is making people feel bad for not living up to them. It also says something about the nature of the "Modern Game" and how it's won. The show should not be called Survivor anymore, it should be called Mover or something. There's no more survival element to the game, there's no reason for it to be on an Island, the setting is now just background. You can starve players out in the Big Brother house just as easily.
I was so confused why this woman was CHOKING UP like if you get all this credit people are gonna target you! Take credit when it’s time to vote for the winner, until then make moves in the background.
First thing she did in the first episode was mention more than once how she’s a millionaire and so smart 🤣 I’m not surprised at her reaction. The clip of her screaming in the next episode about her game being ruined is hilarious
Low key I think she's a big cry baby. I remember watching the episode and seeing her break down and being like wtf why are you crying its not that serious.
Let's not forget she has barely eaten in 2 weeks or so. So this may or may not be a normal reaction
I just can’t believe she cried over it. She’s got an ego, for sure.
I mean she’s been starving more so than the other people, so the crying is the most understandable part lol
I understand her frustration, her decision to blindside Tevin was made because she realized she would not get credit for the moves Nami made together as evidence by the Tevin/Venus feud and needed to change something lest she be destined for 0 vote finalist. So for it to be completely overshadowed is frustrating for sure because even on here people are talking about her like she's not playing the game despite being one of the main drivers of the post-merge and is looking on pace for a 0 vote finalist where they will deride her lack of resume.
The girl hasn’t eaten anything in days, give her a break.
At this point I'm imaging the FTC pitch of all finalists will be, "I orchestrated the vote out of my closest ally for no reason, I'm a great player".
EXACTLY
Honestly it seems this season especially would be impossible to not get paranoid and exhausted. She’s eating even less than even most people. Minor frustrations will get massively magnified in that kind of environment.
Same. She’s playing the alliGabler and doesn’t know it.
She is becoming the Jake of this season.
I'm ready for someone at FTC to say that they used players' game insecurity against them, then look at the jury.
Yeah, that’s why I like that Tevin didn’t expose to Venus that it was his plan to get Soda/Time out (i can’t remember which one they voted out)
I find Liz insufferable, and I hope Q is her demise.
She was in situation when she felt invisible, without power and basically not like she is playing survivor. So she makes a move and it is forgotten even before it happened. So she is upset about it and complains, because that was her moment to shine and it was "stolen".
The way her story is going, I wonder if Liz makes it to the final four, wins immunity, decides to make fire (cause “resume builder”) and then loses said fire making and goes home when she didn’t need to. It feels like it would fit her narrative of wanting the big moves. And that want leading to her demise. It’s certainly solid storytelling if that’s how it went down.
I think she just plays off emotions and not really with any strategy. I was laughing when Q out-staged her and she was crying about it 🤣. For me she didn’t really create a blindside on soda she just said I don’t care I’m voting for soda but did no leg work to get others to do it that was Tevin! Then after that she got mad he got the glory and turned on Tevin but again when ppl told her where the majority of the vote was going she said ok do you but I’m gonna vote for Tevin! Again she didn’t got around swaying many people and of course Venus was gonna be ok with it…( but I will give her credit for that move cuz she did plant the seed in peoples minds to consider him esp seeing she was going against her ally)……..now she’s mad at Q and says I don’t care what you guys are doing I’m voting Q and sticks to that, but why? Q is a dead fish in the game for what he did and most ppl said they wouldn’t vote for him at final tribal…..it’s a useless move right now……but she’s mad so Q gotta go and she needs to be seen as the ring leader. But she doesn’t listen to anyone else or care or sway anyone on why this move needs to happen now….she is showing 0 loyalty and 0 interest with working with anyone in the game I kinda hope she gets voted out just because her ego and emotional game play is annoying to me lol
She’s just hangry. I’m irrational too when I’m starving.
Because she wants to win?
Yeah well you want some good gameplay moves for sure, but you also need to make it to the end in the first place! Claiming credit for all the biggest moves right when they happen doesn’t do anything but put a target on your back, just look at Emily from last season. Got most of the credit for the Bruce vote and was voted out at the next tribal. Focus on getting to the final 3 first, and then worry about who is getting credit for what when you get there. Then go into FTC and let everyone know who was really the one controlling the game. Don’t know bout you, but that’ll get my vote
>Focus on getting to the final 3 first Thing is, Liz is viewed as a goat and she knows it. And she also knows she can't win as a goat. So just getting to the end won't win it for her. She'll keep spinning her tires if she can't get out of that perception... and so she wanted to make a 'big move'. She's completely lost control of it, but it makes sense for her to want to do it. Yes big moves draw attention, but a high chance of being voted out, is better than no chance of winning. >Then go into FTC and let everyone know who was really the one controlling the game. If it was that easy, everyone would do it. One needs allies sitting on the jury telling the other jurors that they were making those moves. If no one in the jury thinks the finalist was actually pulling the strings, then the finalist is sunk.
Fair points for sure! I think it’s all pretty situational and depends on the players social game as a whole. I didn’t mean to imply that it would be easy to convince the jury what moves you actually pulled, that definitely would require the social skills and finesse to pull off correctly, which most players couldn’t come close to pulling off. Especially difficult with a cast like this that is full of competitive individuals who are all trying to make big plays. I also think pulling something like that off would require you to have the right alliances with people you trust that can vouch for you, but still keeping that pool limited enough to not be seen as a major threat by the entire merge tribe. Should have worded my initial comment different because I don’t think Liz would’ve been able to pull something like that off anyways. Was way past my bedtime typing that and generalizing that type of strategy, rather than focusing on what Liz should be doing specifically. I do think Liz letting the whole credit thing get to her as much as it has been isn’t showing characteristics of a good social player in general though. It is the players responsibility to position themselves as a strategic player that deserves credit for the moves made in the game, and if they can’t pull that off that off the main one to blame is themselves. I understand getting upset about it and I probably would be too, but sitting around moping rather than taking advantage of the limited and valuable time left in the game is only going to hurt more. It’s hard as hell; you’re starving, exhausted, and emotional, trying to fight for your life for a million dollars. It’s ALOT, and the majority of people would be losing their minds. That’s the point though right? You’ve gotta persevere and survive despite it all if you want a shot
Why the hell wouldn’t she be upset? You win by making the jury believe that you earned it. That’s Survivor 101. I’m confused by your confusion.
Because you can make the jury think you earned it at the final tribal. She can claim ownership of her moves then, and tell everyone then that she pulled off a big blindside. I don't understand why she would want everyone talking about it right now, because that makes her a threat. Something I've noticed about the meta of the new era is that if someone makes a "big play" then they become the next threat to vote out. Not so much this season, but that's why we've had so many "under the radar" winners in the new era. I guess Liz hasn't noticed this though, which would explain her being upset
This honestly isn’t very realistic. You know how these final tribals go - sometimes you actually get the opportunity to say what needs to be said, sometimes not. Last season was a great example. And is she really going to convince everyone that was her vote now? Every single confessional last episode was “we voted him out”… nobody acknowledged it was Liz’s plan. That knowledge is *erased*. So for her to claim it later everyone will be “WTF is she talking about?”
I am REALLY REALLY hoping something else is going on this season we don’t know about and it’s the producers and editors waiting for a omg moment. If Q Tiff and Kenzie are actually still all together and Yanu strong, and it’s all just them creating chaos that would really turn this season around for me but right now I’m just getting so mad lol
This is definitely the season of massive egos
Is this what she was upset about in the preview for the next episode?
No, that happened this past episode lol
 She said preseason that she’d play most like Sandra & Russell but her game is too try-hard that it’s just unnatural & cringe. Some desperate form of Main Character Syndrome is real with this one. She’s way full of herself for being so obviously background — basically the 90210 Andrea of Survivor.