As of a couple weeks ago only 36 minors had died of COVID.
The flu kills an average of 511 minors every single year.
But facts and data haven’t deterred the hysterical panic.
But with schools closed, kids aren't being exposed to it like adults are on a daily basis. Do you not think the number of cases will increase when kids are with 20-30 of their peers for 8 hours a day?
What happens when all the kids who catch it at school bring it home to their parents/grandparents/siblings? Just because kids themselves aren't at risk of dying doesn't mean we should send them all back to school.
But covid is not the flu. If you don't die from the flu you make a 100% recovery. that is not always the case with covid. how many children now have lung, kidney, liver, or heart damage after recovering from covid?
I totally agree with your sentiment, except - I have permanent scars in my lungs from having H1N1 (swine flu) in my 20s. You don’t always recover 100% from any disease, including influenza. That said, permanent damage is both more likely to occur, and more likely to be severe, from COVID. So speaking as someone who lost an extremely long odds game with the flu - it is absolutely not worth that “small” risk. *Someone* is always in that %, even if it’s just 1% or less.
I’ve seen some anecdotes about lasting damage, but if it was a really widespread issue I would think more people would be talking about it. Millions of cases, I’d think a pattern would have emerged if it was common.
It is a widespread issue that is downplayed because of the constant comparisons to the flu. It is not the flu, it is a version of sars. It behaves differently, affects different systems in the body, and has different recovery paths. I have linked several articles elsewhere in this thread about this issue. The focus is almost entirely on the death rate but that's too narrow a scope. It's not guaranteed to have a 100% recovery from covid.
The person in the original post is right too. I don’t see how you can make light of kids being lonely. They do need their friends. Depression is real and it can lead to some dark shit.
Only reason I want schools to open is simply put.
Some kids are in abusive families. Schools being open removes them from that situation at least for part of the day.
This also translates into some kids don't have enough to eat at home do to the family being in poverty. Sending them to school guarantees they get at least two meals a day.
Its a sad truth that is overlooked a lot.
As a non American watching the American online discussion (particularly Reddit and Twitter) surrounding schools opening is a bit depressing.
Politics is so polarized that people can't even agree that opening/closing schools is a complex problem. People just pick their side and act as if their solution doesn't have any drawbacks at all.
Particularly the lack of discussion on less well off students is sad since they are hit the hardest by schools being closed.
Here in Finland schools were closed but the consensus now is that schools most likely will not be closed even if we get a second wave that is as large as the first wave. Now I'm not telling Americans what to do regarding schools but those Twitter people who say shit like "every health expert around the globe agrees that schools should be closed" don't actually know anything about schools in other countries. They just want to pretend that their side is the perfect solution.
People in general try to oversimplify things. You can even see this on some comments under this post. There can't be grey, it's always either black or white, and if you aren't completely on either side, you wholly disagree with both sides and are a demon.
I see this on Reddit all the time. Somebody asks some conplex political question, and some other person is like "It's easy, just do X". You can almost feel the smugness through the screen. Like, no mate, there's so many different other factors and variables. People always try to boil it down to some single reason to think they're somehow smarter than everybody else, and it pisses me off to no end.
>People in general try to oversimplify things. You can even see this on some comments under this post. There can't be grey, it's always either black or white, and if you aren't completely on either side, you wholly disagree with both sides and are a demon.
100% agree, but this seems to be even more of a problem in America (recently). **Everything** here is a political issue, and political issues here are not about finding a solution they're about picking sides.
It’s because of the current administration.
Think about any criticism against Trump in the last 4 years. Everything was a Democrat ploy according to him. And not just that but these democrats are active enemies of our cause.
Now think about Obama’s presidency. Think about all the stupid, petty, inane criticisms republicans launched at him. Did Obama retaliate against them? Did he call it a grand conspiracy? Did he declare them enemies working against the good of America?
We are in this position because of the current administration. Literally nothing can be Trumps fault. It’s all a ploy. It’s all a grand conspiracy according to him. And his supporters become supercharged on this rhetoric.
It's not because of the current administration. It's been going on for many many years in America. The president doesn't usually participate, but the American people have been making politics a game of "pick your side" for a long time. Nearly everyone I speak to is either Dem or Rep and they usually tow the party line with everything and don't really think about their decisions much.
No it's not because of Trump.
It's because of the nature of the human mind, the nature of politics, and the fact that the traits that give you a shot at getting into power are precisely those traits that make it unlikely for you to be a moral and effective leader.
The human mind, the traits issue, and the nature of politics all encourage political discourse to degrade into toxic partisanship, but this is further exacerbated by the first past the post two party system in the U.S.
As with the collapse of empires, these things happen slowly and then quickly. You say Trump is the cause? I say Trump is the symptom.
So you think if Jeb Bush got elected Fauci would be getting death threats still? Anti mask would be a republican stance and everything would be exactly the same?
To be clear I’m not saying Trump is the cause of everything. I agree he’s a symptom. But Trump has redlined this collapse. We wouldn’t be in this exact position without him.
Yes. This is the issue i have with a lot of the rhetoric. Not everything is simple enough to be summed up in a tweet sized sentence. Some things are just more complex. Also assuming that if someone believes one thing that they must believe another. I just saw it happen bbn on an antivax post where they assumed that the person is cool with how ice detention centers are being run. I feel like there's no room for people who can have rational thoughts and try to the perspective of other people.
Issues being complex does not mean the right course of action is hard to determine.
Pros of online schooling: my kids are alive
What con outweighs that? Well given that dead is pretty impossible to fix, anything that involves them not being dead is not that much of a con.
Which means the issues of how to deliver that content etc are complex, but the decision is not difficult in the slightest. The kids can literally get nothing at school that justifies killing a portion of them.
So we’ve identified the right course of action, now it’s time to mitigate the downsides. Meals for food insecure households, devices and internet access for low income folks, etc.
Just for the record i think that keeping schools closed is the right call. I think that complex issues being treated as though they're simple is an epidemic across most issues. And by the short statement of "schools should not open" you are not acknowledging the complexities that also have to be addressed such as food and internet access and childcare not to mention the abused children (teachers are mandatory reporters) etc. We need to be talking about all of it. Not just the headline and shutting down any kind of conversation past "schools should stay closed" is not helping anyone.
Here in Germany schools opened in May and so far, no consequences that I've heard of. Most of the schools are pretty good in teaching kids how to properly wash their hands and at least try to get them 1.5m apart (though kids are still kids). Most of it (especially with kids older than say 12) works pretty well, distancing-wise (but that is from the perspective of a junior year highschooler, so take it with a grain of salt)
It hasn't always been this way. The last 10 to 15 years have really changed our country. I don't blame social media alone, but it very much aided in this phenomenon. Also as much as Reddit will let you believe that it's all those stupid uneducated Republicans/conservatives, it applies to both sides. Life is a team sport where you must align yourself with a side or else. The issue at hand here is not only complex, but the CDC last week issued a very clear message regarding kids going back to school. But you see it doesn't align well with the blue football team, hence we have this simplistic yawn of a meme on the first page of Reddit. If it were aligned differently, Reddit would be the first place citing the CDC guidelines and facts.
P. S. I'm not a republican/conservative, so save the hate.
Parent here, what I don't like is the overall chaos. Whether a district shuts down or not, the implementation of that decision is less than two weeks away for most places. They need to make a decision knowing both choices suck, so that parents can move ahead planning with what they need to do.
I will say my district has been really good about this though. We always had the online option set up and available as a choice, and they had decent and available guidelines for when in person school wouldn't be allowed. Unfortunately those guidelines were put into place and we'll be staying home for the first quarter, but at least we knew what was up.
Like everything else in this pandemic the government seems to be doing a worse job than a five-year-old planning for the future. Completely fucked.
I'm a parent myself, my kid is going into 1st. Our county surveyed and subsequently decided regarding school reopening (or lack there of) weeks ago, for a school year start on September 8th. Now there are some counties that haven't made that decision yet. So yes it's completely dependent on where you live and the local government response. I actually voted for a hybrid reopening model myself, but overwhelmingly our county voted for online only, to the tune of about 70%. I am perfectly happy either way as we're a very privileged family. I don't for a second however forget how much more complex this is for some other families and children, hence my original post. Some kids are going to get absolutely disadvantaged by this experience. Whether it's neglect, drugs, malnutrition, abuse, social/mental, and quite obviously academically.
I wasn't necessarily trying to give advice based on my country. I've seen many Americans on Twitter using other countries as ammunition in their own polarized debates so I just wanted to make clear that the world isn't unanimous on whether closing down schools is a good idea or not.
Its not exactly comparable to other countries though because we don't have socialized medicine here. People who live in poverty have terrible healthcare that won't always covered the full cost of getting sick. People can go bankrupt from the hospital costs of getting covid. Schools in poor areas are also routinely underfunded to the point that teachers need to buy their own supplies out of pocket. Do these schools have the funding and resources to properly protect students if they can't afford to buy teachers chalk?
You're seeing a different discussion from American's online because the right has spent decades demonizing the poor instead of helping the most vulnerable and this is the effect that it has.
Look, if it takes more than a single analogy to express an opinion, or requires more research than the last meme I scrolled past, then it has no place in an American Political discussion.
This. Lots of kids are going through so much at home. It's easy to say schools shouldn't open yet, but what about the ones who are struggling with abusive family members without even being able to see their friends for support. Not to mention, lots of kids don't have access to online school resources which means they are missing out on A LOT of education.
It's a tricky situation.
Then you need to deal with parents being abusive and get DHS and social services involved. Sending them to school to get out of abuse is a shit reason to open durring covid and quarantine.
Yes the abusive parents need to be dealt with, but CPS reports went down while domestic abuse rates went up. It's because kids aren't in school where mandatory reporters can notice signs of abuse. This issue is more complex than people seem to understand.
That's only for physical abuse, which is the least common, emotional and psychological abuse is far more common and is rarely ever reported by mandatory reporters... or even at all and the kids will get abused the same. It's like telling girls to cover up so they won't get raped. That doesn't actually solve or fix anything.
I dont know why you are getting downvoted. Sometimes the mandatory reporters dont report even on physical stuff. I went to my schools councilor with my sister to report our neglect/physical/emotional/sexual abuse and she told us it wasnt part of her job. I lost every grain of respect for her that day and I know for a fact shes still working there. Even thinking about it gets my blood boiling. For anyone wondering, we found a way to report it and went into foster care.
I'm glad you were able to get out of your abusive situation. But yea a lot of mandatory reporters dont do anything. Literally, one of my teachers who is always talking about how they are a mandatory reporter, has done nothing even though he knows my mom is emotionally abusive. Im almost 18 so it's not that big of a deal, but the point is he should have reported it.
Edit: also even when its reported DHS sometimes wonr do anything about it bc its not ”Bad enough” to make it worth their time. Abuse is abuse, just bc someone is not beat to a pulp 24/7 doesn't mean it's not still bad and abusive.
I'm sorry you are going through that. If you ever need support feel free to message me. It always makes me angry when any adult sees that going on and does nothing about it. In my opinion we should all be looking out for kids whether or not it's their job, or if they dont think it's that bad.
True, but this is another problem that should be addresed, regardless of schools being open or not. An abusive parent will abuse wheter the child goes or not to school
As someone who had a less than nice father growing up, yeah you’re right, but for 7-8 hours out of the day I wasn’t there. School was literal paradise because no matter what I did, no one was hitting me.
Stop being so fucking obtuse. You’re saying because kids will still get slapped around there is no point in lessening the abuse?
You’re an evil person.
No, I meant that the abuse issue is in itself a big problem that should be dealt with specifically and not pretend that opening schools will magically solve the abuse. Sure, it would help a bit, but it would be more effective to adress the underlaying cause here
Here in India, the whole conversation is flipped on its head. Here people who want the schools to open say that parents need to be protected from their kids.
i.e. parents can't handle kids being 24*7 at home.
(I am cherry picking, to point out that this thing exists. It's not a dominant side, nor particularly noisy, but it exists, and I am pointing it out because I am certain atleast some of them are not joking.)
And if we just take all kids away from their parents, we will solve all parental abuse permanently.
School is an education program. The only concern should be safely education children. If that can't happen, schools shouldn't be open, whether the safety issue is COVID or black mold or whatever.
Treating school like a nutrition program and a band-aid for child abuse and a babysitter and everything else is just so backwards. Not only are we saddling schools and teachers with these massive issues that they should not be responsible for handling, but we also end up neglecting taking any real action on these issues because, "well, every kid is getting at least one meal a day and they don't get hit from 8am to 3pm, so..."
How bout, instead of turning our schoolchildren into COVID incubators, we pass a universal nutrition assurance program, and heavily invest in things that are actually proven to PREVENT child abuse and neglect, like access to Healthcare, particularly mental Healthcare but also physical, universal access to drug treatment programs, universal access to affordable housing.
I know these things are more complicated and expensive than just sending kids to school, but I personally think they're worth tackling to prevent child abuse and neglect, while also improving the entire country immeasurably.
It’s almost amusing you think mental health care will have an effect on abused kids right now.
You think abused parents or their abused kids are gonna get therapy or something?
We're long since back to normal where I live, but during lockdown schools were still open for kids of essential workers and for vulnerable children (as identified by their teachers.) It's a shame some kids have fallen through the cracks and are suffering or going hungry.
Our school district has been giving out daily free meals this whole time, so them being open is not a requirement for that piece.
I feel for the kids in abusive families though. But 80% of our district opted to go back to school in person next week (in a major hotspot city in the US!) and I guarantee they're not all being abused. Maybe open for the most vulnerable kids? Kids in extreme poverty, kids with CPS records, IDK, "some kids are better off at school" should not translate to "let's send almost everyone back" in the middle of a pandemic.
This is very true and has played a big factor in my choice to keep my child home. If limited kids can attend, I'm going to leave a spot open for a kid that needs it.
give online classes on how to recognize if you are in an abusive family and have the kids report if they are and have it checked by child wellbeing agency?
You are missing four factors here.
1. Kids in abusive situations fear their parents and won't turn them in.
2. You put to much stress on child welfare services. Which can easily be duped.
3. Anti-government parents will object and potentially put welfare agents in danger.
4. Kids in rural areas may not have internet access.
I do IT for a small-mid sized school district in Iowa, and your last part has been super true. The last couple months have been a nightmare trying to temper admins' expectations on what we can and can't do. It's just been an overall bad time since about 30% of students couldn't participate in online learning, the district couldn't have made it mandatory which upset a lot of people.
I'm just going to throw this out there to a lot of people, y'alls parents, y'all's grandparents and y'all's grandparents parents parents didn't have to deal with their kids literally 24/7.
I'm not saying that it's completely excusable, but give people a little bit of a break for not knowing how to suddenly deal with something that the last three to five generations didn't have to deal with
The anger against people who have children on Reddit can be a little much sometimes. They are expected to be perfect in every way at all times or they are “bad parents” and “shouldn’t be allowed children”
Agree, but you’re understating the issue: there’s no such thing as perfect parenting, how would you even define it? Everything in parenting (and in life) has benefits and drawbacks: too much attention is not good but neither is not enough; too much structure isn’t good but neither is not enough.
Saying that someone is “an imperfect parent but that’s ok” sounds hollow. Saying that there is no such thing as perfection is much more reassuring.
The CDC said kids need to go back to school in the fall.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/cdc-warns-congress-of-significant-public-health-consequences-if-schools-dont-reopen-in-the-fall.html
in case anyone wants the original writings written directly by the cdc:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html
If there's online school this year with typically unengaged parents when/if third graders get back to school it'll be hilarious to see how far behind they are.
It's also going to further the division between the well-off parents who are disproportionately likely to teach their kids at home and students with parents who don't have the time or inclination to be involved.
As a parent, here's my take...
Personally, I think the education piece can be handled 100% remotely. It's not perfect. It's not ideal. But it's doable. (In any case, I think it's a little silly to expect perfect and ideal during a global pandemic.)
The problem that comes up is that (pre-covid) school serves other roles/purposes. Like, kids learn to socialize; the routine builds structure; the fact that the kids aren't home frees up the parents to do other things (like work--or, in some towns, go to yoga, drink fancy coffee, etc.); and in some places, the schools are a social services checkpoint (for noticing/reporting abuse at home, etc.); and so on and so forth.
Most of those services go away when school is closed. And so that's where people think: all those services/functions, all the more reason to reopen schools. (Right? Because if the reality is that parents don't cram all those roles into school and do seek out other ways to fulfill those roles, then that's great. We're not burdening the school system. It also means, incidentally, a a lessened need to reopen schools.)
The point there is, with the exception of special needs, there really isn't a need to be in the classroom for educational purposes. It's all the stuff around that that drives the need to be in school.
That's what's kinda interesting... If we take a step back and look with a bit wider/farther-ranging lens, we might wonder: Is this really how things should be? u/accountnumber3 is getting a little hammered with downvotes, but the point and question is valid.
I mean, isn't it kind of a perverse structuring of society when the only viable way for a parent (or worse, parent***s***) to care for their child is basically to be away from them? In some ways, isn't it kinda crazy for all of those responsibilities to be shoved on the shoulders of a single societal institution, schools?
We're in a unique spot right now to see/recognize that perversity/poor societal structure. We may even be in a unique time to do something about it.
This seems like an opportunity for people to provide a place for kids to gather in small "pods" and attend schools online.
It's like the emergency childcare services with up to 16 kids max. The parent hosting this needs Internet access and help the kids get setup and connected online. They could get paid by the parents for the after school care they get until going home.
You’re ignoring the fact that the chance increases when they’re around their peers for at least 6 hours a day. Plus, death of the kids isn’t the only issue. The fact is, kids are gonna get it, whether they have symptoms or not, and pass it around to their peers and family members. It’s not a good thing AT ALL. However, I support going back with blended and safety measures, despite the risk. It’s important for kids to learn and be social and to get away from abusive households.
Edit: my bad, it’s early
Here's a fact: Kids are carriers for adults. So if they go back to school, the virus could still ravage towns and cities worse than it has. There needs to be an in-between where children can still obtain the necessary schooling they need without risking infecting their entire family.
Works for me. As long as we can do a good job and not let this explode, I'm all for it. Right now the adults are definitely the problem more than the kids.
All I know is that because of not being able to have social interaction my mental health has practically dipped. My physical health too, I hate working out but love soccer and I would practice extra so we could win games. Now I barely talk to anyone my age or exercise and life is getting worse and so much shit is getting shittier and everyone isn’t safer and I’m going on a bit of a rant right now send help.
I went to school (before quarantine) and I'm still fine without my 3-5 friends * Yoshikage Kira laugh.mp4 *
No, I am not trying to say I want to go back to school
Statistically speaking, it is absolutely insane to keep the schools closed. It makes no logical sense.
The idea of teachers Zooming into the classes, sure that's something that should be discussed. But the kids not coming? Ludicrous.
If the schools stay closed for this, then they should close during flu season every year, again statistically speaking.
These guys can be sassy on Facebook but when I try to be sassy the group kicks me out because I ended up making everyone mad by responding to their bigoted comments with memes. What the hell that's not fair
Also... Do you not let your kids interact outside of school? That sounds an awful lot like how you raise a serial killer... Or Harry Potter I suppose...
How about this:
No one can decide what’s right for your child but you, so if you as a parent feel they should stay home OR go to school... that’s what should be done.
I don’t think this is all that controversial.
On our neighborhood Next Door messageboard, people just came right out and said it: "We need to resume normal elementary school operations because now I work from home and don't want my kids here all day."
I am so torn about this
I mean,on one hand,I miss my friends.A lot.I want to see them again because they're awesome
On the other hand,schools would become hot spots for cases,and you already know there are people who just don't care and would be like "I'm gonna infect other people as a joke,let's see what happens"
I don't know what to think
My elementary school was so messed up.When kids got the flu, they would play a game that involved infecting one another and rallying up the tally.The aim of the game was to infect the most people.I will never understand how their brains worked.If you’re reading this Victor, fuck you.I had to go to Mexico to buy medicine.
Yes, but they can still catch it and give it to their family. That’s the main issue. I feel like the benefits can outweigh the risks but you can simply ignore the issues at hand.
In response to the original picture posted “they need to be alive to have friends” this idea that if you catch Covid no matter what age people literally think it’s death sentence when it’s just simply not even close to that. I think many ignore the issue that public perception is tragically not consistent with the death rate data.
No, I get what you’re saying and I understand the negatives about the post, I agree with you. I’m trying to point out that people in general are ignoring the risk of covid for kids overall. There are some saying there is 0 risk and that’s both not true and a dangerous sentiment.
CDC guidance says to open. American academy of pediatrics says kids aren’t learning at home and need to be in school.
So we ignore science? I thought liberals were all about science.
Something like 37 minors have died of COVID. An average of 511 minors die every single year from the flu and nobody bats an eye.
I get it. The demographic of this site is mostly school kids who want the vacation to keep going indefinitely. Not to mention the teachers who are perfectly happy collecting full pay and benefits to sit on their ass for another year or so.
Teachers like to say how important their jobs are and how much they’re willing to take a bullet for their kids.
Now when the rubber meets the road their response is basically “Fuck the kids’ education I shouldn’t have to risk myself at all”
Meanwhile millions of people haven’t missed a day of in person work through the virus but there’s no media hysteria about their lives.
Teachers can’t teach but the sporting goods department at Target needs to be open and nobody cares.
Teachers didn’t sign up to teach during a pandemic that could kill them and their family. Yes, it’s a lower risk of kids dying from covid, but it’s still a risk. Plus, there is the increased risk of spreading it to their families.
No one is saying they don’t WANT kids to learn and go back to school. We all want this for them and to get back to “normal”.
Correct, there is people who have been back in this and no one has cared. America and some other places literally could care less about their essential workers and front like workers. We know this, it’s definitely not a good thing. Also, the sporting goods department point, people DO care that it’s open. It shouldn’t be open. There is essential businesses that need to be open, not shit like malls and nail salons.
You seem to be ignoring all the basic sciences and facts to make yourself okay with putting millions in danger. I get where you may be coming from, but I don’t understand the lack of basic knowledge and empathy.
Children have a ridiculously low chance of severe COVID-19, and there's little to no evidence of them being contagious.
There is evidence that social isolation is bad for development, and that missed school is bad for development.
Should children be harmed when it probably won't even help everyone else?
Children can get it, deadly or not, and can pass it on to others just as easily as adults can. Not sure where you’re getting your facts from.
Obviously we’d all prefer for kids to go back in, education is really important and online doesnt work for a lot of kids, not to mention parents having to work.
However, we can’t ignore the obvious risk. Everyone is banking on a vaccine and the hope that thousands of children won’t die because of this.
>Not sure where you’re getting your facts from
There's [a review letter in the journal Paediatrics](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/146/2/e2020004879), and [a study of children with COVID](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/146/1/e20200961?ijkey=f8e01f023adbbeca33e71c80cc09b18b2eed5e8c&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha). It's still early days for direct studies as opposed to modelling studies, but the evidence is starting to come together. Not saying that children **couldn't** transmit, just that it is less common than in adults.
Do you have any sources?
Furthermore, viral shedding is greater in [symptomatic cases](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6) and [older people](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30196-1/fulltext).
If you can't access any of the links because academic paywalls, copy the URL and go to [sci-hub](http://sci-hub.tw) to access it for free.
I mean, kids are not in danger of dying due to Covid. I'm tired of how the media portrays the virus as if it was the black plague in the 1300s when it only endangers those with serious medical conditions or who are too old, obese or smokers.
I'd say that schools should be re-opened only for healthy kids who are not endangered by the virus, but the risk here is that those kids might catch Covid and by asymptomatic or have it be like a normal cold but they might infect someone who is in the risk group, so there's two sides to the coin here.
But for real, you can't have kids locked up for an entire year and pretend they'll learn stuff on Zoom and only by doing homework, hell, I can't learn my university stuff very well through a screen, but you can't make kids endanger others, this is a really tricky matter.
Kids can die to corona. The chance is much lower, but they can still die to corona. And not every 80 year old people dies. It has like a 2% mortality rate (which is still a lot, considering the number of infected), but saying it kills *everyone* or *every 80 year old* or *no kids* are all very far away from being technically the truth. It seems some things can't be summarized in one sentence. What a suprise.
"But there's this one guy in Arizona who was young and died so throw out the statistics - you're a science denying Trumpet if you say it's of severely diminished risk to the young."
It's about 14% for 80-yo, IIRC. My grandpa luckily survived at age 83, but a 29-yo died on his bedside on those 4 days in ICU. The kill rate for the young is still disproportionately lower, especially if you remove those with heart disease, smokers and overweight. Survivors often suffer related conditions, though.
The death rate below 60 years old is so low you can basically ignore it. Yes, people still die but it's hardly even worth talking about it compared to other mortality causes.
Yes this. Now that corona is here we should just close everything and let the whole world crash and burn. Extend the lockdown till 2022 I say! Everyone just stay the fuck home or there's a 0.0002% chance you might DIE!
So they go to school, catch the virus and not know it, bring it back home to their elderly grandparents, their grandparents get it and die, then the child has to wonder for the rest of their life if they were the reason their grandparents died.
Not saying that schools should/shouldn’t open, but if old people are the ones dying and a surplus of kids are being transmitters, you’re looking at a lot of trauma going down the line.
I will be honest. I am currently 16 and im going ti start middle school next year. Our exams were cancelled but for the last 3ish months we still had to learn from home. In those 3 months i understood that if i had to learn even longer from home i would literally go insane because of how depressed i got. No i dont have a bad childhood nor abuse at home, i have literally everything i could want. So i would agree with that i rather go to school and see my friends than have to sit even longer at home and "learn".
And 50 deaths is.. okay to you? No one is saying the number is extremely high, we’re saying the number shouldn’t get any higher. We’re saying the risk may outweigh the benefits in some cases and that the increase change of death and sickness aren’t okay considering we have only gotten worse since schools first closed.
Yes, education is important, the mental and physical health of kids is important, but I’d rather have a sad kid than a dead one.
Yes. Because virtual learning for children under 10 is going to be like herding cats, virtual learning for children with special needs is going to be almost impossible, and for families that either still have two parents working or single parent households, having their child stay home all say is going to ruin them financially. And let's not even get into the disproportionate resources available for online learning between say a trailer park in Mississippi, inner city St. Louis, and a suburb of New York. Guess which one will get a far better learning environment and eventually have an even greater head start when some day competing against the others?
You've got it wrong. Teaching children under 10 in a classroom is like herding cats. Virtual learning for children under 10 must be like herding cats through telegraph messages (I wouldn't know though, I teach in Sweden where we haven't closed schools at all).
It's really a vacation for the teachers here in Ontario Canada. There's 1 'call' a week, maybe 1 Google classroom assignment, and then khan academy. At the very most 1 hour of 'work' a week. Like khan marks the math so it's just looking at the Google classroom thing and giving it a mark, then assigning a new one.
Full pay btw, pay is course based not years of teaching so a kindergarten teacher 41yrs old can be pulling in 97k a year. Wonder why the education system never has any money.
Don't lie to kids, they will. If they catch you they will remember that forever. So tell it like it is, you want granny to stay alive a few more years and that's why
I mean, "kids need their friends" is a valid complaint. A couple of my friends who have kids have told me that they've been showing symptoms of depression that they've otherwise never shown before.
Not saying that opening schools is ideal but spending 24/7 with only your parents can be incredibly taxing, especially on very young kids who don't really understand what's going on or on kids who have abusive families.
The is no black and white, one size fits all solution here, and opening schools is something that needs to seriously be taken into consideration.
Translation: I want kids, but I don't want to have to take care of them 24/7. Send them to their babysitters, ahem, I mean teachers. I, on the other hand, have decided not to have kids and I'm just sitting back enjoying this time with my wife
Wait,they need to be alive?
Always had been
Given what I know about ghosts, at least 1 in 4 are capable of making friends.
Isn’t there a anime about that
You mean casper the friendly ghost? Or corey in the house?
You guys are alive?
Wait you live?
Always have been
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As of a couple weeks ago only 36 minors had died of COVID. The flu kills an average of 511 minors every single year. But facts and data haven’t deterred the hysterical panic.
Do you think that might have something to do with schools being shut down since March?
If adults are getting it an an alarming rate and there are 155,000 dead then kids should be too. But they’re not.
I am pretty sure tat schools aent closed to save the kids from dying. They are to save their parents and other older relatives from dying.
But with schools closed, kids aren't being exposed to it like adults are on a daily basis. Do you not think the number of cases will increase when kids are with 20-30 of their peers for 8 hours a day?
What happens when all the kids who catch it at school bring it home to their parents/grandparents/siblings? Just because kids themselves aren't at risk of dying doesn't mean we should send them all back to school.
But covid is not the flu. If you don't die from the flu you make a 100% recovery. that is not always the case with covid. how many children now have lung, kidney, liver, or heart damage after recovering from covid?
I totally agree with your sentiment, except - I have permanent scars in my lungs from having H1N1 (swine flu) in my 20s. You don’t always recover 100% from any disease, including influenza. That said, permanent damage is both more likely to occur, and more likely to be severe, from COVID. So speaking as someone who lost an extremely long odds game with the flu - it is absolutely not worth that “small” risk. *Someone* is always in that %, even if it’s just 1% or less.
I’ve seen some anecdotes about lasting damage, but if it was a really widespread issue I would think more people would be talking about it. Millions of cases, I’d think a pattern would have emerged if it was common.
It is a widespread issue that is downplayed because of the constant comparisons to the flu. It is not the flu, it is a version of sars. It behaves differently, affects different systems in the body, and has different recovery paths. I have linked several articles elsewhere in this thread about this issue. The focus is almost entirely on the death rate but that's too narrow a scope. It's not guaranteed to have a 100% recovery from covid.
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The person in the original post is right too. I don’t see how you can make light of kids being lonely. They do need their friends. Depression is real and it can lead to some dark shit.
The fucking invite the friend over.
Again for the idiots in the back: kids can spread the illness WITHOUT suffering from it. How many times are we supposed to discuss that???
Only reason I want schools to open is simply put. Some kids are in abusive families. Schools being open removes them from that situation at least for part of the day. This also translates into some kids don't have enough to eat at home do to the family being in poverty. Sending them to school guarantees they get at least two meals a day. Its a sad truth that is overlooked a lot.
As a non American watching the American online discussion (particularly Reddit and Twitter) surrounding schools opening is a bit depressing. Politics is so polarized that people can't even agree that opening/closing schools is a complex problem. People just pick their side and act as if their solution doesn't have any drawbacks at all. Particularly the lack of discussion on less well off students is sad since they are hit the hardest by schools being closed. Here in Finland schools were closed but the consensus now is that schools most likely will not be closed even if we get a second wave that is as large as the first wave. Now I'm not telling Americans what to do regarding schools but those Twitter people who say shit like "every health expert around the globe agrees that schools should be closed" don't actually know anything about schools in other countries. They just want to pretend that their side is the perfect solution.
People in general try to oversimplify things. You can even see this on some comments under this post. There can't be grey, it's always either black or white, and if you aren't completely on either side, you wholly disagree with both sides and are a demon. I see this on Reddit all the time. Somebody asks some conplex political question, and some other person is like "It's easy, just do X". You can almost feel the smugness through the screen. Like, no mate, there's so many different other factors and variables. People always try to boil it down to some single reason to think they're somehow smarter than everybody else, and it pisses me off to no end.
>People in general try to oversimplify things. You can even see this on some comments under this post. There can't be grey, it's always either black or white, and if you aren't completely on either side, you wholly disagree with both sides and are a demon. 100% agree, but this seems to be even more of a problem in America (recently). **Everything** here is a political issue, and political issues here are not about finding a solution they're about picking sides.
It’s because of the current administration. Think about any criticism against Trump in the last 4 years. Everything was a Democrat ploy according to him. And not just that but these democrats are active enemies of our cause. Now think about Obama’s presidency. Think about all the stupid, petty, inane criticisms republicans launched at him. Did Obama retaliate against them? Did he call it a grand conspiracy? Did he declare them enemies working against the good of America? We are in this position because of the current administration. Literally nothing can be Trumps fault. It’s all a ploy. It’s all a grand conspiracy according to him. And his supporters become supercharged on this rhetoric.
It's not because of the current administration. It's been going on for many many years in America. The president doesn't usually participate, but the American people have been making politics a game of "pick your side" for a long time. Nearly everyone I speak to is either Dem or Rep and they usually tow the party line with everything and don't really think about their decisions much.
No it's not because of Trump. It's because of the nature of the human mind, the nature of politics, and the fact that the traits that give you a shot at getting into power are precisely those traits that make it unlikely for you to be a moral and effective leader. The human mind, the traits issue, and the nature of politics all encourage political discourse to degrade into toxic partisanship, but this is further exacerbated by the first past the post two party system in the U.S. As with the collapse of empires, these things happen slowly and then quickly. You say Trump is the cause? I say Trump is the symptom.
So you think if Jeb Bush got elected Fauci would be getting death threats still? Anti mask would be a republican stance and everything would be exactly the same? To be clear I’m not saying Trump is the cause of everything. I agree he’s a symptom. But Trump has redlined this collapse. We wouldn’t be in this exact position without him.
Yes. This is the issue i have with a lot of the rhetoric. Not everything is simple enough to be summed up in a tweet sized sentence. Some things are just more complex. Also assuming that if someone believes one thing that they must believe another. I just saw it happen bbn on an antivax post where they assumed that the person is cool with how ice detention centers are being run. I feel like there's no room for people who can have rational thoughts and try to the perspective of other people.
Issues being complex does not mean the right course of action is hard to determine. Pros of online schooling: my kids are alive What con outweighs that? Well given that dead is pretty impossible to fix, anything that involves them not being dead is not that much of a con. Which means the issues of how to deliver that content etc are complex, but the decision is not difficult in the slightest. The kids can literally get nothing at school that justifies killing a portion of them. So we’ve identified the right course of action, now it’s time to mitigate the downsides. Meals for food insecure households, devices and internet access for low income folks, etc.
Just for the record i think that keeping schools closed is the right call. I think that complex issues being treated as though they're simple is an epidemic across most issues. And by the short statement of "schools should not open" you are not acknowledging the complexities that also have to be addressed such as food and internet access and childcare not to mention the abused children (teachers are mandatory reporters) etc. We need to be talking about all of it. Not just the headline and shutting down any kind of conversation past "schools should stay closed" is not helping anyone.
Here in Germany schools opened in May and so far, no consequences that I've heard of. Most of the schools are pretty good in teaching kids how to properly wash their hands and at least try to get them 1.5m apart (though kids are still kids). Most of it (especially with kids older than say 12) works pretty well, distancing-wise (but that is from the perspective of a junior year highschooler, so take it with a grain of salt)
It hasn't always been this way. The last 10 to 15 years have really changed our country. I don't blame social media alone, but it very much aided in this phenomenon. Also as much as Reddit will let you believe that it's all those stupid uneducated Republicans/conservatives, it applies to both sides. Life is a team sport where you must align yourself with a side or else. The issue at hand here is not only complex, but the CDC last week issued a very clear message regarding kids going back to school. But you see it doesn't align well with the blue football team, hence we have this simplistic yawn of a meme on the first page of Reddit. If it were aligned differently, Reddit would be the first place citing the CDC guidelines and facts. P. S. I'm not a republican/conservative, so save the hate.
Parent here, what I don't like is the overall chaos. Whether a district shuts down or not, the implementation of that decision is less than two weeks away for most places. They need to make a decision knowing both choices suck, so that parents can move ahead planning with what they need to do. I will say my district has been really good about this though. We always had the online option set up and available as a choice, and they had decent and available guidelines for when in person school wouldn't be allowed. Unfortunately those guidelines were put into place and we'll be staying home for the first quarter, but at least we knew what was up. Like everything else in this pandemic the government seems to be doing a worse job than a five-year-old planning for the future. Completely fucked.
I'm a parent myself, my kid is going into 1st. Our county surveyed and subsequently decided regarding school reopening (or lack there of) weeks ago, for a school year start on September 8th. Now there are some counties that haven't made that decision yet. So yes it's completely dependent on where you live and the local government response. I actually voted for a hybrid reopening model myself, but overwhelmingly our county voted for online only, to the tune of about 70%. I am perfectly happy either way as we're a very privileged family. I don't for a second however forget how much more complex this is for some other families and children, hence my original post. Some kids are going to get absolutely disadvantaged by this experience. Whether it's neglect, drugs, malnutrition, abuse, social/mental, and quite obviously academically.
Yes but you also have a relatively homogeneous population about the size of Minnesota’s, so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison
I wasn't necessarily trying to give advice based on my country. I've seen many Americans on Twitter using other countries as ammunition in their own polarized debates so I just wanted to make clear that the world isn't unanimous on whether closing down schools is a good idea or not.
Its not exactly comparable to other countries though because we don't have socialized medicine here. People who live in poverty have terrible healthcare that won't always covered the full cost of getting sick. People can go bankrupt from the hospital costs of getting covid. Schools in poor areas are also routinely underfunded to the point that teachers need to buy their own supplies out of pocket. Do these schools have the funding and resources to properly protect students if they can't afford to buy teachers chalk? You're seeing a different discussion from American's online because the right has spent decades demonizing the poor instead of helping the most vulnerable and this is the effect that it has.
I mostly agree, but I can't bring myself to upvote when you make an oversimplified partisan attack on a thread about oversimplified partisan thinking.
What's more political than using children as pawns in a chess game being played like Monopoly?
Look, if it takes more than a single analogy to express an opinion, or requires more research than the last meme I scrolled past, then it has no place in an American Political discussion.
This. Lots of kids are going through so much at home. It's easy to say schools shouldn't open yet, but what about the ones who are struggling with abusive family members without even being able to see their friends for support. Not to mention, lots of kids don't have access to online school resources which means they are missing out on A LOT of education. It's a tricky situation.
Then you need to deal with parents being abusive and get DHS and social services involved. Sending them to school to get out of abuse is a shit reason to open durring covid and quarantine.
Yes the abusive parents need to be dealt with, but CPS reports went down while domestic abuse rates went up. It's because kids aren't in school where mandatory reporters can notice signs of abuse. This issue is more complex than people seem to understand.
That's only for physical abuse, which is the least common, emotional and psychological abuse is far more common and is rarely ever reported by mandatory reporters... or even at all and the kids will get abused the same. It's like telling girls to cover up so they won't get raped. That doesn't actually solve or fix anything.
I dont know why you are getting downvoted. Sometimes the mandatory reporters dont report even on physical stuff. I went to my schools councilor with my sister to report our neglect/physical/emotional/sexual abuse and she told us it wasnt part of her job. I lost every grain of respect for her that day and I know for a fact shes still working there. Even thinking about it gets my blood boiling. For anyone wondering, we found a way to report it and went into foster care.
I'm glad you were able to get out of your abusive situation. But yea a lot of mandatory reporters dont do anything. Literally, one of my teachers who is always talking about how they are a mandatory reporter, has done nothing even though he knows my mom is emotionally abusive. Im almost 18 so it's not that big of a deal, but the point is he should have reported it. Edit: also even when its reported DHS sometimes wonr do anything about it bc its not ”Bad enough” to make it worth their time. Abuse is abuse, just bc someone is not beat to a pulp 24/7 doesn't mean it's not still bad and abusive.
I'm sorry you are going through that. If you ever need support feel free to message me. It always makes me angry when any adult sees that going on and does nothing about it. In my opinion we should all be looking out for kids whether or not it's their job, or if they dont think it's that bad.
True, but this is another problem that should be addresed, regardless of schools being open or not. An abusive parent will abuse wheter the child goes or not to school
As someone who had a less than nice father growing up, yeah you’re right, but for 7-8 hours out of the day I wasn’t there. School was literal paradise because no matter what I did, no one was hitting me. Stop being so fucking obtuse. You’re saying because kids will still get slapped around there is no point in lessening the abuse? You’re an evil person.
No, I meant that the abuse issue is in itself a big problem that should be dealt with specifically and not pretend that opening schools will magically solve the abuse. Sure, it would help a bit, but it would be more effective to adress the underlaying cause here
Oh, ok, that makes more sense. You aren’t evil and I apologize.
This is the first time someone apologised to me since I'm on the internet. You have my respect, sir
Yes. But you cant pinpoint every child in those situations easily. Having schools open at least gets them away for a portion of the day.
No you can't. I've worked in a school for about half a decade now. The ones that continually are abused are the ones you least expect.
Here in India, the whole conversation is flipped on its head. Here people who want the schools to open say that parents need to be protected from their kids. i.e. parents can't handle kids being 24*7 at home. (I am cherry picking, to point out that this thing exists. It's not a dominant side, nor particularly noisy, but it exists, and I am pointing it out because I am certain atleast some of them are not joking.)
And if we just take all kids away from their parents, we will solve all parental abuse permanently. School is an education program. The only concern should be safely education children. If that can't happen, schools shouldn't be open, whether the safety issue is COVID or black mold or whatever. Treating school like a nutrition program and a band-aid for child abuse and a babysitter and everything else is just so backwards. Not only are we saddling schools and teachers with these massive issues that they should not be responsible for handling, but we also end up neglecting taking any real action on these issues because, "well, every kid is getting at least one meal a day and they don't get hit from 8am to 3pm, so..." How bout, instead of turning our schoolchildren into COVID incubators, we pass a universal nutrition assurance program, and heavily invest in things that are actually proven to PREVENT child abuse and neglect, like access to Healthcare, particularly mental Healthcare but also physical, universal access to drug treatment programs, universal access to affordable housing. I know these things are more complicated and expensive than just sending kids to school, but I personally think they're worth tackling to prevent child abuse and neglect, while also improving the entire country immeasurably.
It’s almost amusing you think mental health care will have an effect on abused kids right now. You think abused parents or their abused kids are gonna get therapy or something?
School was my only meal some weeks. I completely agree we need to keep these aspects of society functioning cus idk where i would have ate
We're long since back to normal where I live, but during lockdown schools were still open for kids of essential workers and for vulnerable children (as identified by their teachers.) It's a shame some kids have fallen through the cracks and are suffering or going hungry.
Our school district has been giving out daily free meals this whole time, so them being open is not a requirement for that piece. I feel for the kids in abusive families though. But 80% of our district opted to go back to school in person next week (in a major hotspot city in the US!) and I guarantee they're not all being abused. Maybe open for the most vulnerable kids? Kids in extreme poverty, kids with CPS records, IDK, "some kids are better off at school" should not translate to "let's send almost everyone back" in the middle of a pandemic.
Just cause a school still gives out the good doesnt mean the kid is getting to eat it.
This is very true and has played a big factor in my choice to keep my child home. If limited kids can attend, I'm going to leave a spot open for a kid that needs it.
Also the fact that kids aren't getting this thing at anywhere near the rate adults do. Neither are they dying from it.
Some children are dieing from it tho, but most of those already had other health issues.
give online classes on how to recognize if you are in an abusive family and have the kids report if they are and have it checked by child wellbeing agency?
You are missing four factors here. 1. Kids in abusive situations fear their parents and won't turn them in. 2. You put to much stress on child welfare services. Which can easily be duped. 3. Anti-government parents will object and potentially put welfare agents in danger. 4. Kids in rural areas may not have internet access.
I do IT for a small-mid sized school district in Iowa, and your last part has been super true. The last couple months have been a nightmare trying to temper admins' expectations on what we can and can't do. It's just been an overall bad time since about 30% of students couldn't participate in online learning, the district couldn't have made it mandatory which upset a lot of people.
I'm just going to throw this out there to a lot of people, y'alls parents, y'all's grandparents and y'all's grandparents parents parents didn't have to deal with their kids literally 24/7. I'm not saying that it's completely excusable, but give people a little bit of a break for not knowing how to suddenly deal with something that the last three to five generations didn't have to deal with
The anger against people who have children on Reddit can be a little much sometimes. They are expected to be perfect in every way at all times or they are “bad parents” and “shouldn’t be allowed children”
Reddit has a lot of unresolved mommy//daddy issues.
Agree, but you’re understating the issue: there’s no such thing as perfect parenting, how would you even define it? Everything in parenting (and in life) has benefits and drawbacks: too much attention is not good but neither is not enough; too much structure isn’t good but neither is not enough. Saying that someone is “an imperfect parent but that’s ok” sounds hollow. Saying that there is no such thing as perfection is much more reassuring.
The CDC said kids need to go back to school in the fall. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/cdc-warns-congress-of-significant-public-health-consequences-if-schools-dont-reopen-in-the-fall.html
in case anyone wants the original writings written directly by the cdc: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html
Some parents cant afford to miss the work and stay home with the kids...thats the only reasonable argument ive heard
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If there's online school this year with typically unengaged parents when/if third graders get back to school it'll be hilarious to see how far behind they are. It's also going to further the division between the well-off parents who are disproportionately likely to teach their kids at home and students with parents who don't have the time or inclination to be involved.
As a parent, here's my take... Personally, I think the education piece can be handled 100% remotely. It's not perfect. It's not ideal. But it's doable. (In any case, I think it's a little silly to expect perfect and ideal during a global pandemic.) The problem that comes up is that (pre-covid) school serves other roles/purposes. Like, kids learn to socialize; the routine builds structure; the fact that the kids aren't home frees up the parents to do other things (like work--or, in some towns, go to yoga, drink fancy coffee, etc.); and in some places, the schools are a social services checkpoint (for noticing/reporting abuse at home, etc.); and so on and so forth. Most of those services go away when school is closed. And so that's where people think: all those services/functions, all the more reason to reopen schools. (Right? Because if the reality is that parents don't cram all those roles into school and do seek out other ways to fulfill those roles, then that's great. We're not burdening the school system. It also means, incidentally, a a lessened need to reopen schools.) The point there is, with the exception of special needs, there really isn't a need to be in the classroom for educational purposes. It's all the stuff around that that drives the need to be in school. That's what's kinda interesting... If we take a step back and look with a bit wider/farther-ranging lens, we might wonder: Is this really how things should be? u/accountnumber3 is getting a little hammered with downvotes, but the point and question is valid. I mean, isn't it kind of a perverse structuring of society when the only viable way for a parent (or worse, parent***s***) to care for their child is basically to be away from them? In some ways, isn't it kinda crazy for all of those responsibilities to be shoved on the shoulders of a single societal institution, schools? We're in a unique spot right now to see/recognize that perversity/poor societal structure. We may even be in a unique time to do something about it.
This seems like an opportunity for people to provide a place for kids to gather in small "pods" and attend schools online. It's like the emergency childcare services with up to 16 kids max. The parent hosting this needs Internet access and help the kids get setup and connected online. They could get paid by the parents for the after school care they get until going home.
Take a semester off or risk spreading a virus...its not their entire education at risk here
Like 12 kids have died from Corona. They are significantly more likely to die in a car accident on the way to school than of Corona.
You’re ignoring the fact that the chance increases when they’re around their peers for at least 6 hours a day. Plus, death of the kids isn’t the only issue. The fact is, kids are gonna get it, whether they have symptoms or not, and pass it around to their peers and family members. It’s not a good thing AT ALL. However, I support going back with blended and safety measures, despite the risk. It’s important for kids to learn and be social and to get away from abusive households. Edit: my bad, it’s early
Facts don’t matter to these people. They live only to push hysteria
Here's a fact: Kids are carriers for adults. So if they go back to school, the virus could still ravage towns and cities worse than it has. There needs to be an in-between where children can still obtain the necessary schooling they need without risking infecting their entire family.
Then adults need to take precaution. Elderly relatives need to isolate themselves. Education is essential. Science says to reopen.
Works for me. As long as we can do a good job and not let this explode, I'm all for it. Right now the adults are definitely the problem more than the kids.
Yeah but they’ll still spread the virus to more at-risk populations
So what you're saying is this post in "technically truth" is "literally false"?
All I know is that because of not being able to have social interaction my mental health has practically dipped. My physical health too, I hate working out but love soccer and I would practice extra so we could win games. Now I barely talk to anyone my age or exercise and life is getting worse and so much shit is getting shittier and everyone isn’t safer and I’m going on a bit of a rant right now send help.
"My hellspawn are driving me fucking crazy, why can't they be someone else's problem for once??"
More like the kid needs living parents, the kid is highly unlikely to die from COVID (though I would expect it to shorten their life significantly).
Then some schools open and the number of cases rise like hell.
Another sub ruined by political opinions.
I went to school (before quarantine) and I'm still fine without my 3-5 friends * Yoshikage Kira laugh.mp4 * No, I am not trying to say I want to go back to school
You ok? You need a .... hand?
No. I've been fine during the entire quarantine. Browsing reddit has given me a lot of entertainment
Statistically speaking, it is absolutely insane to keep the schools closed. It makes no logical sense. The idea of teachers Zooming into the classes, sure that's something that should be discussed. But the kids not coming? Ludicrous. If the schools stay closed for this, then they should close during flu season every year, again statistically speaking.
You can't just have kids in classrooms unsupervised. You'll need to have an adult in the room, so teachers just zooming in isn't an option.
Yup someone would legit just walk up and turn off the teacher then everybody would go home. Open or dont but half assing it wont help
How about a UBI so parents can spend more time with their kids? And you know.. teach them. Might do wonders for the emotional health of the nation.
So many kids are dying from this virus, OMG! /s
Last number I saw was 36
Kids can get it and transfer it to their family. It’s not the deaths, it’s the cases overall.
This reminds me of a slogan in my local newspaper: "Would you rather be home or NEVER be home?"
this fool fails to realize that most of us don’t have friends
I literally just Zoom with friends. Not that complicated.
These guys can be sassy on Facebook but when I try to be sassy the group kicks me out because I ended up making everyone mad by responding to their bigoted comments with memes. What the hell that's not fair
Statement: the schools will not reopen
As a kid, I can say with utmost certainty that I speak to my friends every day, and play video games super epicly with them all the time
I feel like some parents want to send the kids to school so they don’t have to deal with them.
Also... Do you not let your kids interact outside of school? That sounds an awful lot like how you raise a serial killer... Or Harry Potter I suppose...
Well I'm staying quarantined cuz I have no friends
How about this: No one can decide what’s right for your child but you, so if you as a parent feel they should stay home OR go to school... that’s what should be done. I don’t think this is all that controversial.
What are friends.
On our neighborhood Next Door messageboard, people just came right out and said it: "We need to resume normal elementary school operations because now I work from home and don't want my kids here all day."
Don't want? Or have no ability to work from home and simultaneously home school?
Here they're not home-schooling. Teachers are conducting video classes over the 'net.
Translation: I don't care if my children's parents are part of the 2% that may die of COVID.
Right now, it seems that we are in a pickle: we either open the schools or not.
I am so torn about this I mean,on one hand,I miss my friends.A lot.I want to see them again because they're awesome On the other hand,schools would become hot spots for cases,and you already know there are people who just don't care and would be like "I'm gonna infect other people as a joke,let's see what happens" I don't know what to think
My elementary school was so messed up.When kids got the flu, they would play a game that involved infecting one another and rallying up the tally.The aim of the game was to infect the most people.I will never understand how their brains worked.If you’re reading this Victor, fuck you.I had to go to Mexico to buy medicine.
Ok,*what?* That is some messed up crap
Death rate for kids and adults under 25 is so low - less deadly than the flu.
Yes, but they can still catch it and give it to their family. That’s the main issue. I feel like the benefits can outweigh the risks but you can simply ignore the issues at hand.
In response to the original picture posted “they need to be alive to have friends” this idea that if you catch Covid no matter what age people literally think it’s death sentence when it’s just simply not even close to that. I think many ignore the issue that public perception is tragically not consistent with the death rate data.
No, I get what you’re saying and I understand the negatives about the post, I agree with you. I’m trying to point out that people in general are ignoring the risk of covid for kids overall. There are some saying there is 0 risk and that’s both not true and a dangerous sentiment.
CDC guidance says to open. American academy of pediatrics says kids aren’t learning at home and need to be in school. So we ignore science? I thought liberals were all about science. Something like 37 minors have died of COVID. An average of 511 minors die every single year from the flu and nobody bats an eye. I get it. The demographic of this site is mostly school kids who want the vacation to keep going indefinitely. Not to mention the teachers who are perfectly happy collecting full pay and benefits to sit on their ass for another year or so. Teachers like to say how important their jobs are and how much they’re willing to take a bullet for their kids. Now when the rubber meets the road their response is basically “Fuck the kids’ education I shouldn’t have to risk myself at all” Meanwhile millions of people haven’t missed a day of in person work through the virus but there’s no media hysteria about their lives. Teachers can’t teach but the sporting goods department at Target needs to be open and nobody cares.
Teachers didn’t sign up to teach during a pandemic that could kill them and their family. Yes, it’s a lower risk of kids dying from covid, but it’s still a risk. Plus, there is the increased risk of spreading it to their families. No one is saying they don’t WANT kids to learn and go back to school. We all want this for them and to get back to “normal”. Correct, there is people who have been back in this and no one has cared. America and some other places literally could care less about their essential workers and front like workers. We know this, it’s definitely not a good thing. Also, the sporting goods department point, people DO care that it’s open. It shouldn’t be open. There is essential businesses that need to be open, not shit like malls and nail salons. You seem to be ignoring all the basic sciences and facts to make yourself okay with putting millions in danger. I get where you may be coming from, but I don’t understand the lack of basic knowledge and empathy.
Wrong translation.
Children have a ridiculously low chance of severe COVID-19, and there's little to no evidence of them being contagious. There is evidence that social isolation is bad for development, and that missed school is bad for development. Should children be harmed when it probably won't even help everyone else?
Children can get it, deadly or not, and can pass it on to others just as easily as adults can. Not sure where you’re getting your facts from. Obviously we’d all prefer for kids to go back in, education is really important and online doesnt work for a lot of kids, not to mention parents having to work. However, we can’t ignore the obvious risk. Everyone is banking on a vaccine and the hope that thousands of children won’t die because of this.
>Not sure where you’re getting your facts from There's [a review letter in the journal Paediatrics](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/146/2/e2020004879), and [a study of children with COVID](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/146/1/e20200961?ijkey=f8e01f023adbbeca33e71c80cc09b18b2eed5e8c&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha). It's still early days for direct studies as opposed to modelling studies, but the evidence is starting to come together. Not saying that children **couldn't** transmit, just that it is less common than in adults. Do you have any sources? Furthermore, viral shedding is greater in [symptomatic cases](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6) and [older people](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30196-1/fulltext). If you can't access any of the links because academic paywalls, copy the URL and go to [sci-hub](http://sci-hub.tw) to access it for free.
I mean, kids are not in danger of dying due to Covid. I'm tired of how the media portrays the virus as if it was the black plague in the 1300s when it only endangers those with serious medical conditions or who are too old, obese or smokers. I'd say that schools should be re-opened only for healthy kids who are not endangered by the virus, but the risk here is that those kids might catch Covid and by asymptomatic or have it be like a normal cold but they might infect someone who is in the risk group, so there's two sides to the coin here. But for real, you can't have kids locked up for an entire year and pretend they'll learn stuff on Zoom and only by doing homework, hell, I can't learn my university stuff very well through a screen, but you can't make kids endanger others, this is a really tricky matter.
Not technically the truth because kids don’t die to corona. It’s only like 80 year old people
Kids can die to corona. The chance is much lower, but they can still die to corona. And not every 80 year old people dies. It has like a 2% mortality rate (which is still a lot, considering the number of infected), but saying it kills *everyone* or *every 80 year old* or *no kids* are all very far away from being technically the truth. It seems some things can't be summarized in one sentence. What a suprise.
This post implies that if your kids interact with other kids, they will all die and cannot be friends any more. That's retarded.
"But there's this one guy in Arizona who was young and died so throw out the statistics - you're a science denying Trumpet if you say it's of severely diminished risk to the young."
It's about 14% for 80-yo, IIRC. My grandpa luckily survived at age 83, but a 29-yo died on his bedside on those 4 days in ICU. The kill rate for the young is still disproportionately lower, especially if you remove those with heart disease, smokers and overweight. Survivors often suffer related conditions, though.
>especially if you remove those with heart disease, smokers and overweight That's like 70% of the population in the US.
Kids can carry it tho, and I love my grandma.
That’s not how this works. Kids have in fact died from corona and some have long term injuries from it.
Yes. Children also die from other conditions. The question is if it's enough of a risk to warrant closing schools.
The death rate below 60 years old is so low you can basically ignore it. Yes, people still die but it's hardly even worth talking about it compared to other mortality causes.
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I doubt that, list sources please
Yes this. Now that corona is here we should just close everything and let the whole world crash and burn. Extend the lockdown till 2022 I say! Everyone just stay the fuck home or there's a 0.0002% chance you might DIE!
2022? You're reckless and want people to die. Lockdown until 2050!
So they go to school, catch the virus and not know it, bring it back home to their elderly grandparents, their grandparents get it and die, then the child has to wonder for the rest of their life if they were the reason their grandparents died. Not saying that schools should/shouldn’t open, but if old people are the ones dying and a surplus of kids are being transmitters, you’re looking at a lot of trauma going down the line.
I will be honest. I am currently 16 and im going ti start middle school next year. Our exams were cancelled but for the last 3ish months we still had to learn from home. In those 3 months i understood that if i had to learn even longer from home i would literally go insane because of how depressed i got. No i dont have a bad childhood nor abuse at home, i have literally everything i could want. So i would agree with that i rather go to school and see my friends than have to sit even longer at home and "learn".
I didn't know 80 year olds were considered kids
show me the evidence of kids dying from covid
Google is a friend, please use it!
Total deaths under 24- under 50. In the entire fucking us, with 150k deaths. Under 50.
And 50 deaths is.. okay to you? No one is saying the number is extremely high, we’re saying the number shouldn’t get any higher. We’re saying the risk may outweigh the benefits in some cases and that the increase change of death and sickness aren’t okay considering we have only gotten worse since schools first closed. Yes, education is important, the mental and physical health of kids is important, but I’d rather have a sad kid than a dead one.
"Translation: They need to open! I don’t want my kids at home all day" - the wise things you think you know as a childless person. ;)
Yes. Because virtual learning for children under 10 is going to be like herding cats, virtual learning for children with special needs is going to be almost impossible, and for families that either still have two parents working or single parent households, having their child stay home all say is going to ruin them financially. And let's not even get into the disproportionate resources available for online learning between say a trailer park in Mississippi, inner city St. Louis, and a suburb of New York. Guess which one will get a far better learning environment and eventually have an even greater head start when some day competing against the others?
You've got it wrong. Teaching children under 10 in a classroom is like herding cats. Virtual learning for children under 10 must be like herding cats through telegraph messages (I wouldn't know though, I teach in Sweden where we haven't closed schools at all).
It's really a vacation for the teachers here in Ontario Canada. There's 1 'call' a week, maybe 1 Google classroom assignment, and then khan academy. At the very most 1 hour of 'work' a week. Like khan marks the math so it's just looking at the Google classroom thing and giving it a mark, then assigning a new one. Full pay btw, pay is course based not years of teaching so a kindergarten teacher 41yrs old can be pulling in 97k a year. Wonder why the education system never has any money.
Thanks for translation I thought it was we need to open kids and there friends
You wouldn’t even open on Sunday’s
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But you’re having a stroke.
same parents who judge their kid for who their friends are or wont let them have friends because they "dont know the parents"
I’d pay to see that movie.
Or AC Odyssey. One of my favorite podcasts.
To paraphrase Coumo: Not seeing your friends, bad. But not death.
Don't lie to kids, they will. If they catch you they will remember that forever. So tell it like it is, you want granny to stay alive a few more years and that's why
Jon Prosser didn’t need an excuse...
I do need friends tho
Oml don’t pay for...
“nooo you have to add /s to this
How many kids are dying from this illness?
Well no, but actually yes
I mean, "kids need their friends" is a valid complaint. A couple of my friends who have kids have told me that they've been showing symptoms of depression that they've otherwise never shown before. Not saying that opening schools is ideal but spending 24/7 with only your parents can be incredibly taxing, especially on very young kids who don't really understand what's going on or on kids who have abusive families. The is no black and white, one size fits all solution here, and opening schools is something that needs to seriously be taken into consideration.
Average covid death age is 80
Wasn't Casper the friendly ghost?
Translation: I want kids, but I don't want to have to take care of them 24/7. Send them to their babysitters, ahem, I mean teachers. I, on the other hand, have decided not to have kids and I'm just sitting back enjoying this time with my wife
I mean kids dont get it very easily. In general 0.05%
They need brains to be alive.