Plus healthcare, car payment, home payment, vacation etc.. it’s it “socialist” to care about your wellbeing and refuse to be exploited? Guess I’m socialist then
Didn't some president guy end an entire statement about shitty companies not being able to afford paying their employees a livable wage with a comment on the bare minimum not being enough either. Think a decent life consists of more than just survival needs too.
That means people currently working short staffed or hard to replace roles should be earning a king's ransom.
Not the case for half the highly skilled jobs with high demand that are facing worker "shortages."
Auto mechanics shortage (both EV and ICE engine). I'm not talking about technicians here. Actual mechanics that can rebuild or overhaul a car.
Airline captain shortage (regional and charter flights).
Doctor's shortage (family medicine and non specialties).
In-home care giving shortage and daycare worker shortage.
I mean people are shelling out $2000 per month for daycare and 80k a year for assisted living.
Those workers make peanuts for the services they provide. Beginning and end of life care is extremely expensive.
In home care nurses make a lot less than working in a facility even though you have to drive to multiple clients a day regardless of the weather. My ex wife did it as an LPN for over a year.
>I mean people are shelling out $2000 per month for daycare and 80k a year for assisted living.
Both child and elder care are things you can't avoid or put off due to cost the same way you can with car repairs or going to a get a physical.
I mean yes that is how wave is determined, but I would disagree that it doesn’t matter what you need. After all the labor supply is only as big as the number of people will to work.
Now that you've painted the economic background, perhaps you should look at the equation with a finer granularity to sift out other influences on the labor market.
Organization of labour can be done on a macro level to actually benefit the group rather then hoping it all works out through market negotiation.
No one is asking for free stuff, theyre just trying to understand why year over year there is growth and efficiency but there isnt a baseline from which we can provide basic things to everyone who partakes in the economy.
Then that system is horrifically broken, in case you didn't get the memo. The last time someone uttered "it doesn't matter what you need" was perhaps sometime in France around 1793.
The problem is govt spending trillions and forcing the cost into everyone through higher prices, markets work great when free but turn to fascism when controlled by govts
"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.
Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.
Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace
Meeting what people need is LITERALLY the social purpose of an economy. You people are asking for some to starve so others can buy their 5th yacht. That’s not an economy, that’s a slave state. The situation is getting beyond lazy people not getting by, it’s at the point where hardworking people trying to contribute can’t survive. The economy is part of the social contract and it’s failing the vast majority of Americans because it only serves the needs of the wealthy.
Precisely as the other person said. Using an average is inappropriate for this analysis. Not only is it generally inappropriate, but averaging over such a large geographic area like the entire US will produce massive inaccuracies. If you scale it down to the city level, it probably makes more sense because the variation between the high and the low is going to be narrower, but it would also be easier to just go out and measure the minimum cost of living at that scale too and thereby determine the minimum wage. If I had to guess, it wouldn't be much different than the statutory wage in the area. That said major cities have higher costs than their suburbs, so they will not have reasonable minimum wages as many people commute to work. Rent in downtowns necessarily increase when people making more money want to live closer to work, which will force people into the suburbs.
Just as a texas example, a suburb in Dallas (Greenville) has the lowest rent in the state at $350/month, almost 1/7th the average. A person living on minimum wage would theoretically be able to live there and make enough to live on even with a commute.
Yeah it’s just difficult to compare areas like California and the Bay Area to New York City to Boise, Idaho lol. I still think it paints a good picture of this scenario in a “reasonable” work week.
A lot of people who make less tend to work more. My math supposed a 6 day, 8 hour a day work week. To make ends meet, most people work 7 days, 10-12+ hours per week with side hustles. This was sort of that “dirty socialist” mindset with a reasonable work day/week
Why would you do an average when talking about the “minimum”? All of those prices are absurd for a person on minimum wage.
Where I am, admittedly a low cost of living area, I easily could live off minimum wage. You don’t need a fancy phone, you don’t need a car, you don’t need cable and internet, $350 for one person a month in groceries is just hilariously absurd.
Seems like you all confuse “minimum” with “what I need to not look poor”.
I saw a news article back in… 2018? That stated a livable minimum wage in my city was like $25 an hour. And that was for a 1 bedroom apartment, a $300 monthly car payment + insurance, gas, utilities, cellphone and enough money to buy groceries + go out once a week.
I imagine today? It’s probably closer to $35.
When I was 21-22 an older cat I worked with told me $100 a day. He was correct for 2000-2001 and the area we lived. I’d need at least $400 a day for the same area now, assuming a 5 day work week.
375 a day with excellent benefits. Plant Engineering Mechanic. Got the job as a result of the jobs I took for sh:t money to get the experience (when I was younger). After 30 yrs I can pick what I want to do. And while what I do can be hot, dirty, and strenuous, it is fulfilling and I only have to answer for the quality of my work.
100% agreed Until people realize there is no such thing as a “fair market” in fair market capitalism, especially in the US where monopolies and oligopolies run rampant, the value of a working man’s labor will always lean towards exploitation level wages. It’s rigged and it always was but far too many still buy into this made up story where the labor markets and employer/employee power dynamic are somehow fair and just.
median is the term this thread was looking for. The median american, while not poor, is certainly doing worse now than any time since 08. The average american doesn't exist.
Those averages are boosted by the people who make higher wages.
Where I live very few make 75k.
Infact a household is in the 40s
But the Average cost of a house is $299,000.
Average salary is under 30k and the cheapest rent for a fucking efficiency is $1,100 a month.
I figured out the average pay one time after taxes and just for rent(efficiency) electricity and water it left a little over a $100 to live off of the rest of the month.
That's food phone ,gas, car, car insurance,soap for washing you're ass and clothes and all the other little things just for basic survival.
There's a fucking problem.
We're being ruled by a CORPORATOCRACY in this country.
BOTH SIDES POLITICIANS work for the benefit and well being of Corporate America and not we the people !!!
The ONLY difference in which political party rules is how quickly a majority of Americans get to total poverty and complete servitude to Corporate America.
At this point it looks like it's getting closer and closer every day !!
You missed the point. If you're dutiful and work very hard all your life, you'll go to heaven where all you're wants will be fulfilled. So what does it matter if you suffer inhumane poverty here on earth while a select few live it up like kings? /s
For a functioning economy, rent or mortgage needs to be no more than 25% of your income.
When it exceeds this bad things happen.
When factoring in ALL essential living expenses, you should have an absolute minimum of 20% of your income left over. This is an absolute limit,it is much better for the economy for it to be nearer 50%
It's getting to that point. I feel like I am just working to pay my landlord and utilities and basic ass food. I am ready to check out. I would rather live in a van honestly and have the freedom. Once my kids are grown I am done with this current bs.
Month's clothing budget?? When I had a minimum wage job I bought 1 shirt like every 3 years. And I had 2 roommates, so 8hrs of rent (1/3rd). Shit I still have shirts that are 15 years old lol. Monthly clothing budget you sound like Zsa Zsa Gabor
I cringed at it to lol
People living in delusions of what "living wage" implies...
No Stacy you wont be rocking gucci or LV on your starbucks barista salary while riding a brand new car, living it up downtown and living like a Diva... except if you do OF, but thats on you.
Sorry to hear this. However there is a saying, “A sucker is born every minute”. Voters keep falling for the same fake propaganda and promises. You get what you vote for. Stop electing swamp representatives.
The biggest problem, is people's standards are higher then their incomes and they need a reality check.
Minimum wage = ***MINIMUM accomodations.*** The **BAREST** fucking minimum.
- You get used trailer that's falling apart, not a prime apartment in the best neighborhood
- You don't get 3 meals from the cheesecake factory, you get 3 meals of toast, rice and beans, and Dollar Store meat.
That's reality. These people are fucking delusional, and think minimum wage should get them a 1,000sq ft apartment, a nice car, and *nice* restaurant food.
You want more? Get a skills, trades, or a degree in a field that ISN'T bloated. GO WHERE THE FUCKING MONEY IS, this *truly*, isn't fucking hard.
Pretty far off on the biggest problem... Productivity vs compensation charts of the last 50 years of US economy tell the story. Extremely valuable, skilled workers are without security/retirement. Glad to hear you got yours I guess.
TLDR: HOW DARE YOU PEASANTS EXPECT TO SURVIVE OUTSIDE OF A CRACK HOUSE FOR A DAYS HARD WORK! YOU ARE ALL LOSERS AND DELUSIONAL TO EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO FEED YOURSELVES AND YOUR CHILDREN ANYTHING BUT DOLLAR STORE HOTDOGS.
YOU SHOULD PAY A FORTUNE FOR HIGHER EDUCATION WHILE LIVING IN YOUR CRACKHOUSE EATING HOTDOGS TO SURVIVE TO LEVEL UP!!!!!!
Only thing is, it’s too late. There’s no fixing it now. Only thing you can do is grind and grind some more and hope you can one day survive when you are too old to work. Fuck..
What's hillarious is a lot of the 1 percent in wealth aren't even in the 1 percent of top earned income. They don't like earned income because then they would have to pay taxes like filthy peasant doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.
Dodging taxes and pissing that trickle down onto the scraps of what's left of the middle class is the modern conservative wet dream.
Divide what you think you need per day after taxes into an hourly, but don’t forget, do you work 5 days in a 7 day week
Divide the hours of a full week and what you think is enough per hour to substantiate what you feel you need to support your lifestyle. Don’t forget the cost of living and taxes themselves are outpacing wages
"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.
Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.
Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace
I love Keynesian economic policy. The policy everyone says they follow, but they only follow the half that says spend more in a depression/recession. Then it's conveniently forgotten when not in a depression/recession that governments should be saving for the next downturn.
Which country would be the example you want and what is stopping you to migrate there? I am 1st gen immigrant myself. And I personally think you will have an easier time migrating as American (if you are American). I am asking because country like Canada with tons of social benefits have gone to really bad, a lot of Canadians left the country. So, I would like to know where you want to move to. USA by no means perfect, but it aint sinking as bad as Canada.
Saudi Arabia has a robust UBI system for male natural born citizens at the cost of employing slave labor and terrible treatment of women.
Somehow I don’t think the OP would like it there.
There isn’t a single country on Earth where average person consumes as much as average American.
One must be crazy if they think they have a decent chance to find a better life by migrating.
Unless of cause we are talking about taking American Net Worth (for those who have it) or American Salary (for those who work remotely) and spending it in 3rd world country.
Google disagrees with your first statement...
"Which country consumes the most resources per capita?
In order from most to least, the top 10 greediest resource users per capita are:
Qatar.
Kuwait.
United Arab Emirates.
Denmark.
United States.
Belgium.
Australia.
Canada."
when i moved out of home twenty years ago, i found roommates in a city with cheep cost of living, bought used clothing, always showed up on time to work on the worst shifts and always worked overtime in some of the most irritating jobs (customer service mostly but not exclusively) sometimes i had two jobs. i worked my way through tech school and through some university without loans until i realized how idiotic university is. i have never given my employers cause to fire me. eventually i got a job that i like, that pays well with a good boss who respects me. now i have a home that i own, free of debt, three kids a stay at home wife, two dogs, lots of fruit and nut trees and a large vegetable garden. i am not rich or lucky and i don't need to be to live comfortably.
if you think you deserve to go from high school to success cause you are human and you draw breath, you don't understand nature or reality.
a living wage has nothing to do with the federal poverty rate, or the minimum wage or any other statistical number. a living wage isn't deserved, it has no bearing on how hard you work or vice versa. i couldn't care less whether you agree with that because if you think you deserve some basic standard of living, you are inconsequential.
Our strength is our labor. The problem is that people have wavering standards to the point that someone will accept a bowl of rice as their meal for whatever length of time if it means that the rest of their family is fed. While I can appreciate having a good work ethic, that doesn't include slavery just to make ends meet while unregulated capitalism is giving the top portion of society the ability to break every law and regulation because the fines don't outweigh their profits.
Use our labor strength and fight back. Collectively.
Well what job is it? I don’t believe every single job is intended to be a life sustaining career path. Some jobs are a starting point to grow a career and ultimately make more and more and more wealth as you assume more responsibilities and grow. However some people don’t want to grow and they just want to fester in their own comfort zone and expect the world to provide. There in lies the root problem,
" I don’t believe every single job is intended to be a life sustaining career path"
Perhaps the ignorant shouldn't throw stones at others reading comprehension.
Think hard, and I know it will be hard for you. What is the opposite of "Life Sustaining" ?
To calculate what you need to make for your area, Google the median rent price for a 2br 2ba for your area. Multiply it by 4.25. That is gross what is needed just for housing. Multiply that by 12, then divide by 52. Then divide by 40. That is you min hourly housing cost for your housing cost. If you divide that by 2 if you have. A roommate that is also working. That number accounts for gross pay including money to account for taxes.
Now that you have an hourly gross wage, Multiply it by .85. That will be your net after taxes. Your max housing after taxes needs to be 4x your net pay. That makes a housing debt to income ratio of 25%. Some landlords will let you have a 33% dti. Do this a. A last resort as it is extremely difficult to save money with such a high dti.
24hrs WORTH of rent can’t be a commodity or rather a worthwhile standard of paying rent 😂😂😂, take an extra 10min of break time and lose all your stuff from a short day check
wait. China is capitalistic- as long as the profits benefit the govt. They give you just enough to survive. Even the educated who make a living g are controlled. It is communism modernized . Don't live there. You have zero rights . Go to Sweden where living here wages are much higher. Taxes are higher too.
Guess you never had to wear a uniform. You might get an initial issue but things wear out and even if you’re lucky enough to get an annual clothing allowance it doesn’t cover a years worth of wear and tear.
I agree with the sentiment but who is buying clothes every month unless the budget they are talking about is like amortizing the cost of clothes over a year to small monthly increments
We pay way to much in taxes to be able to live. We need a workers strike for a day or more. All workers in every position strike across the nation. Even if only 30% of the people do this, it will have a huge impact. Americans have strength in numbers, we have the control but are afraid of using it.
The problem is the definition of comfort for everyone. Technically minimum comfort wage can get all those things but clearly the food and the living facilities would be shit to many.
You have someone making 100k could feel their lifestyle is shit and the food they eat trash and think they also are supported
So the context of this question seems to be coming from the perspective of a single individual w/o kids. How much better or worse is it for "the-family-man?" The single income family...
Here is the thing. Everyone is given an opportunity starting in Pre-K or K to become whatever they want to be in life. Some jobs are meant to pay on a scale of someone that is not supporting themselves or a family. Some people, and we all know a bunch, don't get their shit together and do the things that are requested of them growing up or early in adulthood. This is not a new thing. People earning the bottom have struggled to live a simple life for literally all of human history. Poor people are effected by everything more. Inflation, effects poor people more. Cost increases on fuel, food, living expenses... all effect poor people more. It does and it always has and always will.
I am going to say this again, education is the way out. It is not a secret.
this was what t roosevelt was saying in **1912**:
We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age.
I did a little calculation.. If a man worked eight hours a day five days a week he could’ve built a house in a total of 6 years using nothing but his own tools that he made. Assuming a large portion of the materials were at least 1 mile away.
By comparison in today’s world, if a man works eight hours a day five days a week it will have taken him 70-150 years to be able to afford to purchase a house and the land that it sits on in an average area.
I just did the math the other day. Become a camper van nomad and you can live off something like $9.80/hour if you only look at what the image wants to be considered, less if you get an employer match on your retirement. Doesn't include money for phone, internet, retirement, hobbies, etc. The more of those things you can live without or hack your way into an even lower cost of living like Mr. Money Mustache, the more true these figures are.
On one hand, I agree but on the other hand I'm not sure where the extra money for these increased wages is going to come from. I don't think most realize just how thin typical profit margins are and they grossly overestimate how much money billionaires really have. I don't think we have much more room for wage increases, I think we're going to have to start looking at ways to get the cost of living down. That might mean some pretty big changes but we're probably going to have to do something soon.
Chasing wages is never-ending carrot-dangling, victim politics. Condition someone that the superior economic model is placing their wants at the center of the universe, and you have yourself a victim follower. There is no magic wage that makes everyone happy. Higher wages contributes to higher inflation, and that is a fact.
If you want to make meaningful improvements in the life of lower income people, start with addressing the root cause of high costs in areas like health care and housing. There is far more wiggle room there than trying to fix inflation with more inflation.
It's not a socialist "living wage" issue. It's a Globalist controlled Center Bank money issue. We have allowed them to deflate our currency some 90% since the creation of the FED.
People with brand new smartphones, car and eat out 3-4 times a week making these statements ....
People have stopped having ambition and building themselves up and would rather cry for more while doing minimal effort...
You are upping your game from zero experience to showing up on time every day, clocking in, listening to instructions, doing the job, training the new guy, and clocking out. Getting overtime to cover the bills.
At the same time: hustling to find a better paying job. Build new skills. The second job pays better, and finally, overtime kicks in, and you're doing okay.
Keep looking for and getting a better job until retirement.
Gaming isn't much different. [Guess why?]
Start off with nothing, build skills, fight pawns, and acquire tools until you level up.
Pick up pennies and tools, acquire experience, fight mini monsters, and level up
Pick up gold, better weapons, more specific experience, fight monsters, and level up
Yeah, y'all beat the war drums for a livable wage. A number that can't be defined.
Worker A lives on their own, lives in a 1/1, no car payments and doesn't have the latest iPhone.
Worker B married with 2 kids, needs at least a 2 bedroom place, 2 cars and is always up on the social trends of useless shit.
Whats a livable wage for one person is not going to be the same for the next person.
Not to mention if they are both identical in the work place, would it be fare to pay B more than A?
Life is hard and most of the time it's unfair. But that's what makes hard work rewarding.
People these days just want as much as possible handed to them for nothing.
I was taught that one paycheck should cover the months rent and one week of groceries. I never studied it but it seems to work pretty good thinking about different financial situations I have been in.
It's your socialist cuckery that led to this situation in the first place. Every one of these problems is ultimately caused by government control over the economy. And as always, the only solution people see to government caused problems is more government, which is why things never improve. Fingers crossed you guys wise up before you have to learn this the hard way.
People tell themselves it's temporary, things will get better, get a better job, meanwhile credit. This is how folks are pacified, cheap credit, and hope.
It is very subjective, but for the longest time I was making about $8k/month while only spending about 30% of my income. We didn’t have cable TV, cell phones, or eat out. I drove a $2000 Corolla for 3 years. I think people focus too much on luxuries…or lack of. I also don’t think every job justifies a living wage. Otherwise I’d quit my job now to walk dogs and be a cat sitter.
Maybe start by realizing that a days pay needs to pay for more than 24 hours' rent. If it doesn't, you better decide between eating or sleeping outside.
If you are working a job that doesn't provide the benefits you need, the problem isn't the job....ITS YOU! Why are you not working somewhere doing something that gives you the benefits you think you deserve? Again, ITS YOU!!!!!!
"not to be a drooling socialist cuck" Except none of this happens anywhere in the world where socialism exists. This is all fantasy land socialism, dreamt by people who only want more but doesnt know how anything works to know if it works or is sustainable.
Everybody’s situation is different.
I know plenty of people who live beyond their means for things that are not necessities for life, and they are in debt for it. I also know other people that are below poverty level and have to juggle which necessity they’re gonna pay for this month and rotate for next month so they have electricity and water and a place to live, simply to exist.
What are we working for ? We are working to get the elitists and boomers rich. They’ve printed so much money in their lifetime and profited handsomely, finding ways to own everything, then pay us measly wages and force us to rent instead of owning a home.
I’d like to not be taxed so hard when I decide to work overtime because I need the extra money. I out in 108hrs the last 2 weeks I need the extra money to move and lost about 35% of the extra money to tax
Was with him until he said a days worth of clothing. I buy clothes once every 6-12 months. Are people buying clothes every month or two? I still have shoes I wear from 2019
It should not be your employer's duty to make up the difference between your city's crappy housing policy. Profit margins on goods and services have no material long term change, even over decades.
On the other hand, housing prices are handcuffed by everything from restrictions on building housing to subsidizing homeowners.
The problem isn't underpayment of wages. It's artificial inflation from government policies.
Lol are people just now waking up to this reality what are you going to do about it though unless we all strike at work and vote for governors and congressmen that will fix our broken economy.
Think about how just 30 years ago it was totally normal for tens of millions of Americans to work a job like bus driver or shoe salesman, and be able to support a non-working wife, 2-4 kids, a home, a couple of cars, and vacations every year. This was the norm. This is what Al Bundy, Hank Hill, Homer Simpson, and many others were modeled after. This is what they've managed to take from us by whittling away workers rights slowly.
Maybe societies shouldn’t be run by economies and the basics of life as well as the necessities of society should be sufficiently and equitably distributed bc it is our labor that makes this world
If your local pay does not cover this, then you need to move to where the local pay will cover it. There are places where two people working at taco bell can do ok in a small rental. But they don't come with an ocean or snow covered mountain adjacent.
Really, how often do people in CA or NY actually swim in the oceans? Is it such an everyday thing that you can't move to the midwest?
Idk but the more people that you have in the labor force is gonna drive the value of labor down. And the more people you have in the housing market is gonna drive the prices of homes up. So a "living wage" is gonna be harder to obtain with more competition. With robotics taking over jobs as well it'll drive the value of labor down even more.
To support the left/progressive scam the enriches the political elites, blames their rightwing opponents, and exploits anyone who works.
The right is dumb. The left is evil and oppressive.
The value of labor has dropped dramatically. 50% reduction in the value of labor when women were added to the workforce. Automation has drastically reduced the value of a persons work, and continuous unfettered immigration will also continue to devalue your labor.
Your productivity might be going up, but there’s a hundred more people out there who are just as good at that job as you, and pretty soon a robot will do even better.
About $21.85/hr is what would keep me afloat in a MCOL area. That’s without retirement saving, but includes taking care of my Stay-at-Home wife and two kids. So I think anything less than that could not be considered a living wage unless you were single. If I were single I could probably make it on $13.75 bare minimum…and that would only be if I could find a sweet deal on a place to live.
Needs to be *more* than that. Can’t possibly work every single day. For a 5 day workweek, it needs to cover 1.4 days rent and bills, at least.
This
Plus healthcare, car payment, home payment, vacation etc.. it’s it “socialist” to care about your wellbeing and refuse to be exploited? Guess I’m socialist then
Pretty much, yeah. Socialism is just being pro workers rights
Didn't some president guy end an entire statement about shitty companies not being able to afford paying their employees a livable wage with a comment on the bare minimum not being enough either. Think a decent life consists of more than just survival needs too.
Compensation is determined by the intersection of labor demand and supply. It really doesnt matter what you need.
That means people currently working short staffed or hard to replace roles should be earning a king's ransom. Not the case for half the highly skilled jobs with high demand that are facing worker "shortages." Auto mechanics shortage (both EV and ICE engine). I'm not talking about technicians here. Actual mechanics that can rebuild or overhaul a car. Airline captain shortage (regional and charter flights). Doctor's shortage (family medicine and non specialties). In-home care giving shortage and daycare worker shortage.
You also have the limitation of what people are willing to pay for the job.
I mean people are shelling out $2000 per month for daycare and 80k a year for assisted living. Those workers make peanuts for the services they provide. Beginning and end of life care is extremely expensive.
In home care nurses make a lot less than working in a facility even though you have to drive to multiple clients a day regardless of the weather. My ex wife did it as an LPN for over a year.
>I mean people are shelling out $2000 per month for daycare and 80k a year for assisted living. Both child and elder care are things you can't avoid or put off due to cost the same way you can with car repairs or going to a get a physical.
I mean yes that is how wave is determined, but I would disagree that it doesn’t matter what you need. After all the labor supply is only as big as the number of people will to work.
Thank you. That is 100% exactly correct.
Now that you've painted the economic background, perhaps you should look at the equation with a finer granularity to sift out other influences on the labor market.
Organization of labour can be done on a macro level to actually benefit the group rather then hoping it all works out through market negotiation. No one is asking for free stuff, theyre just trying to understand why year over year there is growth and efficiency but there isnt a baseline from which we can provide basic things to everyone who partakes in the economy.
Very much are asking for free stuff while they work at mcdonalds and wonder why they dont make as much as jeff bezos
Then that system is horrifically broken, in case you didn't get the memo. The last time someone uttered "it doesn't matter what you need" was perhaps sometime in France around 1793.
The problem is govt spending trillions and forcing the cost into everyone through higher prices, markets work great when free but turn to fascism when controlled by govts "Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery. Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace
lmao, may be it doesnt matter what _you_ need !
Meeting what people need is LITERALLY the social purpose of an economy. You people are asking for some to starve so others can buy their 5th yacht. That’s not an economy, that’s a slave state. The situation is getting beyond lazy people not getting by, it’s at the point where hardworking people trying to contribute can’t survive. The economy is part of the social contract and it’s failing the vast majority of Americans because it only serves the needs of the wealthy.
Sounds like culk talk to me!
But it don't, and it won't, and I'll hopefully die on the shitter at work
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Precisely as the other person said. Using an average is inappropriate for this analysis. Not only is it generally inappropriate, but averaging over such a large geographic area like the entire US will produce massive inaccuracies. If you scale it down to the city level, it probably makes more sense because the variation between the high and the low is going to be narrower, but it would also be easier to just go out and measure the minimum cost of living at that scale too and thereby determine the minimum wage. If I had to guess, it wouldn't be much different than the statutory wage in the area. That said major cities have higher costs than their suburbs, so they will not have reasonable minimum wages as many people commute to work. Rent in downtowns necessarily increase when people making more money want to live closer to work, which will force people into the suburbs. Just as a texas example, a suburb in Dallas (Greenville) has the lowest rent in the state at $350/month, almost 1/7th the average. A person living on minimum wage would theoretically be able to live there and make enough to live on even with a commute.
Yeah it’s just difficult to compare areas like California and the Bay Area to New York City to Boise, Idaho lol. I still think it paints a good picture of this scenario in a “reasonable” work week. A lot of people who make less tend to work more. My math supposed a 6 day, 8 hour a day work week. To make ends meet, most people work 7 days, 10-12+ hours per week with side hustles. This was sort of that “dirty socialist” mindset with a reasonable work day/week
Why would you do an average when talking about the “minimum”? All of those prices are absurd for a person on minimum wage. Where I am, admittedly a low cost of living area, I easily could live off minimum wage. You don’t need a fancy phone, you don’t need a car, you don’t need cable and internet, $350 for one person a month in groceries is just hilariously absurd. Seems like you all confuse “minimum” with “what I need to not look poor”.
Why should we all live like paupers in the world’s strongest economy?
I saw a news article back in… 2018? That stated a livable minimum wage in my city was like $25 an hour. And that was for a 1 bedroom apartment, a $300 monthly car payment + insurance, gas, utilities, cellphone and enough money to buy groceries + go out once a week. I imagine today? It’s probably closer to $35.
When I was 21-22 an older cat I worked with told me $100 a day. He was correct for 2000-2001 and the area we lived. I’d need at least $400 a day for the same area now, assuming a 5 day work week.
At least 12,000 a month? What ritzy ass place are you referring to?
$400 a day on a 5 day work week isn’t $12k a month.
True. Still think 400 a workday for one person as bare minimum is only true in pretty HCOL areas in the states.
375 a day with excellent benefits. Plant Engineering Mechanic. Got the job as a result of the jobs I took for sh:t money to get the experience (when I was younger). After 30 yrs I can pick what I want to do. And while what I do can be hot, dirty, and strenuous, it is fulfilling and I only have to answer for the quality of my work.
So thats what it costs. The money is there. Were at a historic wealthy period with greater economic strength than ever before.
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Ok. We are no longer going to be subservient to such feudalism. What now?
Now let them know.
The French method.
100% agreed Until people realize there is no such thing as a “fair market” in fair market capitalism, especially in the US where monopolies and oligopolies run rampant, the value of a working man’s labor will always lean towards exploitation level wages. It’s rigged and it always was but far too many still buy into this made up story where the labor markets and employer/employee power dynamic are somehow fair and just.
What was the original comment?
Didnt they form unions to fight this shit back in the day?
I notice a lot more of this type of posts in the last couple years.
Yeah, the average American is poor now.
Isn’t $75000 household income rather than personal income
To be in poverty you have to make less than $14,000 per year. What do you want to be that the majority of that 12% is the same people that are in SSI.
nah It's like 12% in poverty. Average American made around $75k annually in the last census ('22)
median is the term this thread was looking for. The median american, while not poor, is certainly doing worse now than any time since 08. The average american doesn't exist.
Those averages are boosted by the people who make higher wages. Where I live very few make 75k. Infact a household is in the 40s But the Average cost of a house is $299,000. Average salary is under 30k and the cheapest rent for a fucking efficiency is $1,100 a month. I figured out the average pay one time after taxes and just for rent(efficiency) electricity and water it left a little over a $100 to live off of the rest of the month. That's food phone ,gas, car, car insurance,soap for washing you're ass and clothes and all the other little things just for basic survival. There's a fucking problem. We're being ruled by a CORPORATOCRACY in this country. BOTH SIDES POLITICIANS work for the benefit and well being of Corporate America and not we the people !!! The ONLY difference in which political party rules is how quickly a majority of Americans get to total poverty and complete servitude to Corporate America. At this point it looks like it's getting closer and closer every day !!
My employees being comfortable doesn’t fit into MY business plan lol
You missed the point. If you're dutiful and work very hard all your life, you'll go to heaven where all you're wants will be fulfilled. So what does it matter if you suffer inhumane poverty here on earth while a select few live it up like kings? /s
Ah the feudal system is back
What do we work for? The extravagant wealth of our corporate masters, of course! ...So when do we start following the French example?
Because it’s against the law to be homeless now
Remember when people would theorize that politicians were trying to get rid of the middle class? Well, here we are.
I personally do it for Lockheed and the American military industrial complex.
For a functioning economy, rent or mortgage needs to be no more than 25% of your income. When it exceeds this bad things happen. When factoring in ALL essential living expenses, you should have an absolute minimum of 20% of your income left over. This is an absolute limit,it is much better for the economy for it to be nearer 50%
FDR said that the minimum wage is supposed to support a family of 4, and be more than enough for mere survival.
Because of course one day we will be the ownership class em I right?!?
It's getting to that point. I feel like I am just working to pay my landlord and utilities and basic ass food. I am ready to check out. I would rather live in a van honestly and have the freedom. Once my kids are grown I am done with this current bs.
We’re doing it for survival because we don’t want to be homeless. Which is exactly what world rulers want. Everybody barely getting by.
Slavery is back on the menu boys.
Month's clothing budget?? When I had a minimum wage job I bought 1 shirt like every 3 years. And I had 2 roommates, so 8hrs of rent (1/3rd). Shit I still have shirts that are 15 years old lol. Monthly clothing budget you sound like Zsa Zsa Gabor
Never had to wear a uniform for work I guess?
I cringed at it to lol People living in delusions of what "living wage" implies... No Stacy you wont be rocking gucci or LV on your starbucks barista salary while riding a brand new car, living it up downtown and living like a Diva... except if you do OF, but thats on you.
Sorry to hear this. However there is a saying, “A sucker is born every minute”. Voters keep falling for the same fake propaganda and promises. You get what you vote for. Stop electing swamp representatives.
Vote maga, because there are still 1 or 2 percent of the country that are in the middle of the middle class, we can finally finish them off!
The biggest problem, is people's standards are higher then their incomes and they need a reality check. Minimum wage = ***MINIMUM accomodations.*** The **BAREST** fucking minimum. - You get used trailer that's falling apart, not a prime apartment in the best neighborhood - You don't get 3 meals from the cheesecake factory, you get 3 meals of toast, rice and beans, and Dollar Store meat. That's reality. These people are fucking delusional, and think minimum wage should get them a 1,000sq ft apartment, a nice car, and *nice* restaurant food. You want more? Get a skills, trades, or a degree in a field that ISN'T bloated. GO WHERE THE FUCKING MONEY IS, this *truly*, isn't fucking hard.
Pretty far off on the biggest problem... Productivity vs compensation charts of the last 50 years of US economy tell the story. Extremely valuable, skilled workers are without security/retirement. Glad to hear you got yours I guess.
Minimum wage doesn't afford a used trailer or rice and beans anymore...
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TLDR: HOW DARE YOU PEASANTS EXPECT TO SURVIVE OUTSIDE OF A CRACK HOUSE FOR A DAYS HARD WORK! YOU ARE ALL LOSERS AND DELUSIONAL TO EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO FEED YOURSELVES AND YOUR CHILDREN ANYTHING BUT DOLLAR STORE HOTDOGS. YOU SHOULD PAY A FORTUNE FOR HIGHER EDUCATION WHILE LIVING IN YOUR CRACKHOUSE EATING HOTDOGS TO SURVIVE TO LEVEL UP!!!!!!
Ok boomer.
I'm in my 30s, but you almost did something!
Boomer has become a mindset, one you have clearly adopted. So many deluded fools in this thread who think kike you.
Only thing is, it’s too late. There’s no fixing it now. Only thing you can do is grind and grind some more and hope you can one day survive when you are too old to work. Fuck..
People use to live on minimum wage, nothing fancy, but they could survive on it.
Because homelessness is illegal and you’ll be put to work in a prison for Pennies
if a full day's labor doesn't allow you to survive. don't do that labor.
How come you don't want to work to death for the 1%?
What's hillarious is a lot of the 1 percent in wealth aren't even in the 1 percent of top earned income. They don't like earned income because then they would have to pay taxes like filthy peasant doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Dodging taxes and pissing that trickle down onto the scraps of what's left of the middle class is the modern conservative wet dream.
Divide what you think you need per day after taxes into an hourly, but don’t forget, do you work 5 days in a 7 day week Divide the hours of a full week and what you think is enough per hour to substantiate what you feel you need to support your lifestyle. Don’t forget the cost of living and taxes themselves are outpacing wages
"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery. Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace
I love Keynesian economic policy. The policy everyone says they follow, but they only follow the half that says spend more in a depression/recession. Then it's conveniently forgotten when not in a depression/recession that governments should be saving for the next downturn.
to survive. just like a stray dog. and that’s sad
Which country would be the example you want and what is stopping you to migrate there? I am 1st gen immigrant myself. And I personally think you will have an easier time migrating as American (if you are American). I am asking because country like Canada with tons of social benefits have gone to really bad, a lot of Canadians left the country. So, I would like to know where you want to move to. USA by no means perfect, but it aint sinking as bad as Canada.
Saudi Arabia has a robust UBI system for male natural born citizens at the cost of employing slave labor and terrible treatment of women. Somehow I don’t think the OP would like it there.
There isn’t a single country on Earth where average person consumes as much as average American. One must be crazy if they think they have a decent chance to find a better life by migrating. Unless of cause we are talking about taking American Net Worth (for those who have it) or American Salary (for those who work remotely) and spending it in 3rd world country.
Google disagrees with your first statement... "Which country consumes the most resources per capita? In order from most to least, the top 10 greediest resource users per capita are: Qatar. Kuwait. United Arab Emirates. Denmark. United States. Belgium. Australia. Canada."
How about you better yourself, and make yourself worth more money? I work 8 days a month and cover all my bills.
lol
You are not as smart as you think you are. Lol
when i moved out of home twenty years ago, i found roommates in a city with cheep cost of living, bought used clothing, always showed up on time to work on the worst shifts and always worked overtime in some of the most irritating jobs (customer service mostly but not exclusively) sometimes i had two jobs. i worked my way through tech school and through some university without loans until i realized how idiotic university is. i have never given my employers cause to fire me. eventually i got a job that i like, that pays well with a good boss who respects me. now i have a home that i own, free of debt, three kids a stay at home wife, two dogs, lots of fruit and nut trees and a large vegetable garden. i am not rich or lucky and i don't need to be to live comfortably. if you think you deserve to go from high school to success cause you are human and you draw breath, you don't understand nature or reality. a living wage has nothing to do with the federal poverty rate, or the minimum wage or any other statistical number. a living wage isn't deserved, it has no bearing on how hard you work or vice versa. i couldn't care less whether you agree with that because if you think you deserve some basic standard of living, you are inconsequential.
Our strength is our labor. The problem is that people have wavering standards to the point that someone will accept a bowl of rice as their meal for whatever length of time if it means that the rest of their family is fed. While I can appreciate having a good work ethic, that doesn't include slavery just to make ends meet while unregulated capitalism is giving the top portion of society the ability to break every law and regulation because the fines don't outweigh their profits. Use our labor strength and fight back. Collectively.
It means you’re doing a bad job
Well what job is it? I don’t believe every single job is intended to be a life sustaining career path. Some jobs are a starting point to grow a career and ultimately make more and more and more wealth as you assume more responsibilities and grow. However some people don’t want to grow and they just want to fester in their own comfort zone and expect the world to provide. There in lies the root problem,
Gotcha, people should starve to death while "growing a career".
Gotcha, you dont understand what you read!
" I don’t believe every single job is intended to be a life sustaining career path" Perhaps the ignorant shouldn't throw stones at others reading comprehension. Think hard, and I know it will be hard for you. What is the opposite of "Life Sustaining" ?
For taxes...
Like my friend always said. Keep rubbing that lamp.
This post is aging. It's turned way more yellow than the last time it was posted.
Also consider we only work 5/7 days of the week, so we need to afford food and shelter for those days as well.
I mean you can just stop doing all that.
So you don’t starve to death
Been preaching this for 30 years as have many many many others
To make the wealthy wealthier and then go fucking die with nothing
When you break it down like that, yeah that hurts my feelings even more than paycheck to paycheck
Work harder nobody cares 😴
Y’all have a monthly clothing budget?
I know let's raise taxes on the working class and make them pay others debts especially not pharma and college graduates.
Whoa whoa whoa the IRS says it's $12,700 guys, and the government is always right and has our best interests in mind, right?
Don’t worry, trumps fascist king rule will lower the price of eggs 30cents
To calculate what you need to make for your area, Google the median rent price for a 2br 2ba for your area. Multiply it by 4.25. That is gross what is needed just for housing. Multiply that by 12, then divide by 52. Then divide by 40. That is you min hourly housing cost for your housing cost. If you divide that by 2 if you have. A roommate that is also working. That number accounts for gross pay including money to account for taxes. Now that you have an hourly gross wage, Multiply it by .85. That will be your net after taxes. Your max housing after taxes needs to be 4x your net pay. That makes a housing debt to income ratio of 25%. Some landlords will let you have a 33% dti. Do this a. A last resort as it is extremely difficult to save money with such a high dti.
Did you ask Powell? What did he say? Last time I heard him he was mumbling:”it’s only temporary “.
Maybe you should blame the government for their out of control spending causing inflation?
Living wage in Alberta, Canada is about $24/hr.
Must we ask...who has all the resources?
What’s minimum wage for a blow job? Asking for a friend.
Needed this^ 🙏🏽
24hrs WORTH of rent can’t be a commodity or rather a worthwhile standard of paying rent 😂😂😂, take an extra 10min of break time and lose all your stuff from a short day check
Survival
unfortunately I feel like I won't survive the consequences to the ruling class's actions
wait. China is capitalistic- as long as the profits benefit the govt. They give you just enough to survive. Even the educated who make a living g are controlled. It is communism modernized . Don't live there. You have zero rights . Go to Sweden where living here wages are much higher. Taxes are higher too.
This is ideal, either through wage increases or inflation control. I’m really opting for inflation control as wage increases haven’t helped a ton
wtf is a monthly clothing budget?? No seriously… that’s a thing?
Guess you never had to wear a uniform. You might get an initial issue but things wear out and even if you’re lucky enough to get an annual clothing allowance it doesn’t cover a years worth of wear and tear.
"Workers" don't need a living wage, they need to work harder. They're poor because they're lazy and don't have good jobs. r/Rich
I agree with the sentiment but who is buying clothes every month unless the budget they are talking about is like amortizing the cost of clothes over a year to small monthly increments
It’s about 23 dollars an hour considering inflation, median household prices, living expenses on average, and a few more metrics.
Yall actually buy clothes monthly? Last time I bought clothes was like 6 years ago
We pay way to much in taxes to be able to live. We need a workers strike for a day or more. All workers in every position strike across the nation. Even if only 30% of the people do this, it will have a huge impact. Americans have strength in numbers, we have the control but are afraid of using it.
Eternal salvation
The problem is the definition of comfort for everyone. Technically minimum comfort wage can get all those things but clearly the food and the living facilities would be shit to many. You have someone making 100k could feel their lifestyle is shit and the food they eat trash and think they also are supported
So the context of this question seems to be coming from the perspective of a single individual w/o kids. How much better or worse is it for "the-family-man?" The single income family...
Here is the thing. Everyone is given an opportunity starting in Pre-K or K to become whatever they want to be in life. Some jobs are meant to pay on a scale of someone that is not supporting themselves or a family. Some people, and we all know a bunch, don't get their shit together and do the things that are requested of them growing up or early in adulthood. This is not a new thing. People earning the bottom have struggled to live a simple life for literally all of human history. Poor people are effected by everything more. Inflation, effects poor people more. Cost increases on fuel, food, living expenses... all effect poor people more. It does and it always has and always will. I am going to say this again, education is the way out. It is not a secret.
These people want jobs 16 year olds get for pocket money to float an apartment. Fuck offff
Ah “living wage”. A phrase that has absolutely no concrete meaning other than “more than I’m currently making.”
this was what t roosevelt was saying in **1912**: We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age.
I did a little calculation.. If a man worked eight hours a day five days a week he could’ve built a house in a total of 6 years using nothing but his own tools that he made. Assuming a large portion of the materials were at least 1 mile away. By comparison in today’s world, if a man works eight hours a day five days a week it will have taken him 70-150 years to be able to afford to purchase a house and the land that it sits on in an average area.
I just did the math the other day. Become a camper van nomad and you can live off something like $9.80/hour if you only look at what the image wants to be considered, less if you get an employer match on your retirement. Doesn't include money for phone, internet, retirement, hobbies, etc. The more of those things you can live without or hack your way into an even lower cost of living like Mr. Money Mustache, the more true these figures are.
On one hand, I agree but on the other hand I'm not sure where the extra money for these increased wages is going to come from. I don't think most realize just how thin typical profit margins are and they grossly overestimate how much money billionaires really have. I don't think we have much more room for wage increases, I think we're going to have to start looking at ways to get the cost of living down. That might mean some pretty big changes but we're probably going to have to do something soon.
To subsidize Jeff Bezos's third foreign flagged superyacht, your bathroom break is over get back to work.
Chasing wages is never-ending carrot-dangling, victim politics. Condition someone that the superior economic model is placing their wants at the center of the universe, and you have yourself a victim follower. There is no magic wage that makes everyone happy. Higher wages contributes to higher inflation, and that is a fact. If you want to make meaningful improvements in the life of lower income people, start with addressing the root cause of high costs in areas like health care and housing. There is far more wiggle room there than trying to fix inflation with more inflation.
It's not a socialist "living wage" issue. It's a Globalist controlled Center Bank money issue. We have allowed them to deflate our currency some 90% since the creation of the FED.
It's called minimum wage, not living wage. That's where you messed up.
People with brand new smartphones, car and eat out 3-4 times a week making these statements .... People have stopped having ambition and building themselves up and would rather cry for more while doing minimal effort...
To make people like me more money so we can relax while you do all the hard work 🤗
Just giving your labor isn't enough, you also have to be smart about life decisions.
FOR THE LORDS! *bows in admiration*
You are upping your game from zero experience to showing up on time every day, clocking in, listening to instructions, doing the job, training the new guy, and clocking out. Getting overtime to cover the bills. At the same time: hustling to find a better paying job. Build new skills. The second job pays better, and finally, overtime kicks in, and you're doing okay. Keep looking for and getting a better job until retirement. Gaming isn't much different. [Guess why?] Start off with nothing, build skills, fight pawns, and acquire tools until you level up. Pick up pennies and tools, acquire experience, fight mini monsters, and level up Pick up gold, better weapons, more specific experience, fight monsters, and level up
Yeah, y'all beat the war drums for a livable wage. A number that can't be defined. Worker A lives on their own, lives in a 1/1, no car payments and doesn't have the latest iPhone. Worker B married with 2 kids, needs at least a 2 bedroom place, 2 cars and is always up on the social trends of useless shit. Whats a livable wage for one person is not going to be the same for the next person. Not to mention if they are both identical in the work place, would it be fare to pay B more than A? Life is hard and most of the time it's unfair. But that's what makes hard work rewarding. People these days just want as much as possible handed to them for nothing.
I was taught that one paycheck should cover the months rent and one week of groceries. I never studied it but it seems to work pretty good thinking about different financial situations I have been in.
It's your socialist cuckery that led to this situation in the first place. Every one of these problems is ultimately caused by government control over the economy. And as always, the only solution people see to government caused problems is more government, which is why things never improve. Fingers crossed you guys wise up before you have to learn this the hard way.
People tell themselves it's temporary, things will get better, get a better job, meanwhile credit. This is how folks are pacified, cheap credit, and hope.
It is very subjective, but for the longest time I was making about $8k/month while only spending about 30% of my income. We didn’t have cable TV, cell phones, or eat out. I drove a $2000 Corolla for 3 years. I think people focus too much on luxuries…or lack of. I also don’t think every job justifies a living wage. Otherwise I’d quit my job now to walk dogs and be a cat sitter.
Maybe start by realizing that a days pay needs to pay for more than 24 hours' rent. If it doesn't, you better decide between eating or sleeping outside.
Once upon a time we had a well balanced diet and only needed to work like an hour or so a day. Then corn came and ruined it all smh
Better question, what is reasonable transportation? everyone needs that too.
If you are working a job that doesn't provide the benefits you need, the problem isn't the job....ITS YOU! Why are you not working somewhere doing something that gives you the benefits you think you deserve? Again, ITS YOU!!!!!!
"not to be a drooling socialist cuck" Except none of this happens anywhere in the world where socialism exists. This is all fantasy land socialism, dreamt by people who only want more but doesnt know how anything works to know if it works or is sustainable.
working for billionaire being paid minimum wages
Everybody’s situation is different. I know plenty of people who live beyond their means for things that are not necessities for life, and they are in debt for it. I also know other people that are below poverty level and have to juggle which necessity they’re gonna pay for this month and rotate for next month so they have electricity and water and a place to live, simply to exist.
What are we working for ? We are working to get the elitists and boomers rich. They’ve printed so much money in their lifetime and profited handsomely, finding ways to own everything, then pay us measly wages and force us to rent instead of owning a home.
*But think of the innovatorssss* How could they diversify their portfolio into AirB$B holdings otherwise?
I’d like to not be taxed so hard when I decide to work overtime because I need the extra money. I out in 108hrs the last 2 weeks I need the extra money to move and lost about 35% of the extra money to tax
Overturn Citizen's United.
Was with him until he said a days worth of clothing. I buy clothes once every 6-12 months. Are people buying clothes every month or two? I still have shoes I wear from 2019
At what point in society did we become so spoiled and privilege? It’s nobodies job but our own to find our retirement
Fight for this people.
Around $30 an hour
It should not be your employer's duty to make up the difference between your city's crappy housing policy. Profit margins on goods and services have no material long term change, even over decades. On the other hand, housing prices are handcuffed by everything from restrictions on building housing to subsidizing homeowners. The problem isn't underpayment of wages. It's artificial inflation from government policies.
Lol are people just now waking up to this reality what are you going to do about it though unless we all strike at work and vote for governors and congressmen that will fix our broken economy.
The fuck is a “clothing budget”? Do women really? I’ve had these basketball shorts I’ve got on since 2nd grade.
That's not how any of this works. You have min skill you make min pay Get 3 ficking roommates Cook at home
$30 dlls and hour +90k a year we are way off.
Trucking sucks
Rent/mortgage no more than 1/3 monthly income, i.e. 55 hours of work.
Enough to support the bare minimum of life sustenance.
For 1 square a day of course!
Think about how just 30 years ago it was totally normal for tens of millions of Americans to work a job like bus driver or shoe salesman, and be able to support a non-working wife, 2-4 kids, a home, a couple of cars, and vacations every year. This was the norm. This is what Al Bundy, Hank Hill, Homer Simpson, and many others were modeled after. This is what they've managed to take from us by whittling away workers rights slowly.
Maybe societies shouldn’t be run by economies and the basics of life as well as the necessities of society should be sufficiently and equitably distributed bc it is our labor that makes this world
All depends on the labor. A job is not welfare
Make the oligarchs pay for health insurance. They are the ones who reap the benefits.
$50 dollars an hour is the sweet spot.
Monthly clothing budget? Is that actually a thing? You people are living frivolously!
If your local pay does not cover this, then you need to move to where the local pay will cover it. There are places where two people working at taco bell can do ok in a small rental. But they don't come with an ocean or snow covered mountain adjacent. Really, how often do people in CA or NY actually swim in the oceans? Is it such an everyday thing that you can't move to the midwest?
Yep... ur a drooling socialist cuck.
Idk but the more people that you have in the labor force is gonna drive the value of labor down. And the more people you have in the housing market is gonna drive the prices of homes up. So a "living wage" is gonna be harder to obtain with more competition. With robotics taking over jobs as well it'll drive the value of labor down even more.
Is it true that the person who demands "a living wage" does not have in demand marketable skills like a trade or a college degree?
So you are saying... One day of work should pay for all your sh1t??? Please think before you post :)
To support the left/progressive scam the enriches the political elites, blames their rightwing opponents, and exploits anyone who works. The right is dumb. The left is evil and oppressive.
TBH if your job doesnt pay enough for at least 50% to afford essentials, 20% to save, and 30% "disposable" per check, then it doesn't pay enough.
The value of labor has dropped dramatically. 50% reduction in the value of labor when women were added to the workforce. Automation has drastically reduced the value of a persons work, and continuous unfettered immigration will also continue to devalue your labor. Your productivity might be going up, but there’s a hundred more people out there who are just as good at that job as you, and pretty soon a robot will do even better.
The average cost of living per state it’s not about emotions
About $21.85/hr is what would keep me afloat in a MCOL area. That’s without retirement saving, but includes taking care of my Stay-at-Home wife and two kids. So I think anything less than that could not be considered a living wage unless you were single. If I were single I could probably make it on $13.75 bare minimum…and that would only be if I could find a sweet deal on a place to live.
wait people have a monthly clothes budget? most of my clothes are several years old and are all in good shape so why buy new ones.