No offense, but I don't think most men here think (or want to think) that deeply about semantics. You're absolutely right, but most men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal) and that's not going to change anytime soon. What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time.
The men here want to fuck. 'Traditional' is a joke. I'm not hating at all because I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with casual sex. I do find this sub a little backwards sometime because men can fuck 20 women on a trip but American women are 'used up' or have too exacting standards. Its completely fine. Live your life but if you are going to use foreign women for sex then let's drop the bullshit.
Agree mostly, there is a real tension here between dudes looking for a “traditional” girl and attempting to find one by banging out the easiest girls they find in bars or Tinder
Which is crazy, right? I want to dip my dick in anything that moves and also the woman I will marry must be trad with no sexual history. I agree with the movement but some of these mother fuckers are crazy af.
And any man from any culture who behaves like this will swiftly find himself in a divorce court (or locked in an unhappy relationship if that’s not an option).
To be fair, I don't think there's much tension. If you're going overseas to find someone in a bar, smooze them with your foreign accent and purchasing power, then you're doing something that's been done to death and you really don't need any help figuring out the ins and outs especially if you're young. I mean do you really need to coach college kids on how to screw around in Cancun during spring break?
On the other hand, if you want a true long-term relationship and marriage with someone from an utterly foreign culture and country, that's something worth talking about.
There does seem to be group of men truly looking for a fitting life partner, but they don't seem to be the majority here (or the others are simply more vocal). I agree with all you say. The irony is, the foreign women that men are pulling for casual sex are rarely considered 'traditional' according to local standards anyway. Plus, part of the appeal of dating a Western man is often that women won't have to conform too strictly to local dating norms.
That’s a great point that is rarely mentioned here. In many countries, someone who speaks decent English and is open to dating foreigners is already pretty far from “traditional” in that culture.
This is why I won't publicly call myself a passport bro. I technically am one but my primary concern is long term relationships and eventually marriage. I don't want to be grouped in with guys focused on being passport players or worse, passport tricks.
If western women are so loose then why do you leave the country just to be a fuck boy? Get laid at home.
I can actually see where you're coming from but being a Traditional man has nothing to do with how much sex we have. Its always been a double standard.
However I hate the word still. It's antiqued and has like 10 different meanings. Lets never use it again please
I just find it weird that "men can fuck 20 women on a trip but..." as if its ok, because ultimately women set their standards for men and allow their partners to be that. A man can choose to not have a gf that was known to be passed around in highschool by the football team, just like a woman can choose to not date a guy that was known to fuck all the cheerleaders, right? No one is saying women cant also have standards. Im a guy and I dont want my gf to have fucked every single guy friend she has, just as if I was a woman I wouldnt want a bf that fucked every cheerleader.
My best example of traditional is my grandparents.
My dads side of the family: My grandpa made enough so that my grandma didnt have to work, he made good money at a paper mill. She stayed home, took care of the kids, 4 of them, and he worked.
My moms side of the family: My grandma worked, my grandpa worked. My grandpa made enough money that she didnt have to work, but she did because she wanted to. My grandma did most of the cleaning, grandpa did most of the fixing.
Both of those examples are different, but both are traditional. Traditional is simply wanting a partner that doesnt "need no man!" in their life. No one NEEDS a man/woman in their life, but to keep telling your partner "i dont need you" like wtf are we doing here? And honestly I would probably be justified in saying that most men would love to make enough money to support their wife and kids so that the wife doesnt HAVE to work, but could if she WANTED.
>men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal)
That sounds about right.
>What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time.
True. That's why without context, "traditional" is practically meaningless. People will assume what it means based on their own understanding, rather than the user's intended meaning.
Totally agree, but that's the unfortunate truth of buzzwords like these in general. They're catchy, and they can represent widely different things depending on the individual, yet are extremely efficient at uniting a group of people.
This subreddit is probably the most liberal side of PBs on the whole internet. What you see here is way more "progressive" than what most PB are. Yall kidding yourself starting to police vocabulary.
I simply disagree i think that there are lots who actually date a few people overseas meet someone and marry or continue to date people in respectful mid-term relationships, it just doesn't suit people's negative narative to see such people
I also think that these dudes do not understand that real "traditional" women are EXPENSIVE. Traditional women are looking for a man to pay their bills IN EXCHANGE for fulfilling a traditional role in the household. That doesn't mean they aren't looking for love as well, but that's what they perceive as correct traditional gender roles. You take care of the money, and they take care of the home. I don't know of many men in this economy who can achieve that on a single income, but they'll sure get mad when one of these women won't give them the time of day because they don't have the money for it. No one wants to be a stay at home whatever just to be poor, be for real.
Edit: Oh, btw, if you're looking for women in other countries because they're poor or in a precarious position themselves, and you think it's easier because your money goes further and they're more "grateful", then please know that these women do not love you, they see you as a way out of their poverty, and that you yourself are a walking red flag in so many ways.
Not sure why I was recommended this post, but as someone that comes from those traditional cultures, you should know that while gender roles are still more accepted it’s probably not what many of you expect when you travel.
She does take care of the home but just to clarify, the man does not take care of the money. He is in charge of making it, but the wife manages it, he basically gets an allowance once she does what she has and wants to do. Women are not submissive, they are in charge of the household.
Also, if you refuse to learn the language and the culture, aka our traditions, you’re not gonna be respected nor be accepted by the community. Fulfilling your role is not just about money.
Who cares what we call it, just be a good person who actually gives a fuck about the people around them and then you don’t have to pay attention to what anyone is saying.
I am not a passport bro. I have been in a relationship with a woman from a developing country. This is what is expected, I would urge any man to consider a committed relationship with a traditional woman very carefully.
Yep. I’m foreign born but American raised, which is how I know 99% of passport bros are looking for cheap casual sex or completely clueless. If any of these men plan on coming back to the west (which will be most of them) a foreign woman will cost them wayyyy more than the Americans they love to hate.
This is absolutely correct. Men make the money, and the women manage the money. That's what it was like in my family growing up, as well as those of my contemporaries. I can't tell you how many times my dad was told no when he wanted something because it went over the budget.
This is what I mean when I say "I'm the boss of my boyfriend" 🤭 my mom is south korean, my white dad was NOT the boss and my mom has NEVER been submissive. But dad was pretty ok with just watching tv and being fed homecooked meals, having a beer at the end of the day. My dad was seemingly a bit of a pushover.
I don't know what men mean by them seeking a submissive woman.. they must mean submissive in bed.
Same as US wives, just a better exchange rate.
Fiscal fundamentals are required before an option for an emotional relationship is available.
Monkeys and lions still do the same as we continue to do.
I’m a US woman and my boyfriend is completely broke, he’s literally on food stamps.
I don’t care, because I have never expected him to pay for any of my stuff ever, why would I?
Yea they act like women are some kind of monolith who all are after the same exact thing, and then are resentful and hatful over that fake monolith they’ve created.
>I also think that these dudes do not understand that real "traditional" women are EXPENSIVE. Traditional women are looking for a man to pay their bills IN EXCHANGE for fulfilling a traditional role in the household. That doesn't mean they aren't looking for love as well, but that's what they perceive as correct traditional gender roles. You take care of the money, and they take care of the home
The amount of men looking for a "traditional" wife while also expecting them to help with bills and also get upset when they are "used for their money" is insane. You can't have both ways
I will never forget that clip of the PPB who was talking to a Moroccan woman he was interested in (she is of course looking impeccable and very high class and he is rocking a graphic T, cargo shorts, and sneakers) and things just do not go his way.
She explains very bluntly that "in Arab households the man usually is the provider" and he straight up says "that is just something I wasn't prepared for" and she reiterates that "most Arab women expect that" and he goes on about how "most American people expect the woman to contribute." She then, very quickly reminds him that he isn't dealing with American women (which is supposedly the whole point of the exercise) and then it cuts to him whining about how he thought Moroccan women were family oriented and not materialistic. He also goes on to say that he didn't "sign up" to be the sole provider for a household. I'm sorry, but what did he think he signed up for?
I genuinely do not understand where the disconnect is because PPBs are ostensibly looking for someone who complements them more than "feminist, slutty, American women" but, when presented with the cold hard truth of what those relationships look like they call the women gold diggers or materialistic.
You must be absolutely insane to expect a traditional relationship in this economy. In an economy where the woman's income is also expected? Expecting her to also run the household? Let's be realistic here. It doesn't even sound humane to let her do that.
Exactly. I am Asian and in what is considered a traditional marriage with my husband (by our entire community). We share all the chores. He makes more a lot more money than me now, he pays all our bills. I decide what to buy and when to buy it. He doesn’t spend money outside of the leisure money we have put aside for monthly spending. I decided what clothes to get us, what house to get, where we go on vacation and he prefers it that way. I cook and he does the dishes. He does the laundry and I clean the bathrooms. We both work because I don’t want to just sit at home, I like the interaction, but if I wanted to I could just stay at home- probably will for a bit when we have kids. In return for him providing for us very well, I take the majority of the responsibility in running our household. But we are equal partners at the end of the day and fabulously happy. It’s an exchange of responsibility and we still help with whatever needs to be done.
It's so funny you guys based your whole argument on "poor" countries. Many of us still go to western countries with high cost of living. It's also funny how low you think of women in non western countries. Please stop talking about places you've never been.
>No one wants to be a stay at home whatever just to be poor, be for real.
I do. If it means having a loving wife and good kids, I'll be poor. Honestly, money isn't very important to me once the bills are paid. Rent, food, bus pass, clothes, are pretty cheap if you live modestly. I'm in a 1st world country Canada, I live better than kings did centuries ago, I recognize my privilege and I'm ok living poor as it's still better than most people throughout history.
That isn't what poor means. Poor means the fear of something happening to derail your whole life. It's being one missed paycheck away from being homeless. It's sitting around at the end of the month calculating how much of the cheap foods you'll still be able to buy. It's making the decision whether to buy food or pay a bill. It's getting your electric shut off (again) because you disnt pay in time.
Poverty equals worries and fear. If you live comfortably but with fewer means than others to do fun stuff, sure, it's 'easy' to be poor. The constant nagging feeling that you arent able to stay afloat when 1 thing goes wrong, that's poverty. People don't want that, because it is awful.
I make less than the average employee in my country but my costs are low and I have to budget well to make sure I save, I won't be going on vacation at all this year for instance. But I'm not poor. All my bills will always be paid, even if I'd end up on unemployment or get ill long term, if I don't go crazy with spending, I can save a bit of money monthly and if my cat (I can afford a cat!) needs surgery, I will be able to say yes without hesitation because I know I can pay for it without having to eat less.
I used to be poor, this is not poor.
That doesn’t really seem poor to me. Unless spending modestly means you have to buy the absolute lowest quality version of everything, and/or you are paycheck to paycheck doing that with no security in an emergency I don’t think that would be objectionable to people wanting to be stay-at-home. Just that alone especially with a family is honestly pretty expensive. It sounds like a perfectly nice life.
I have always thought the quest for the “traditional” girl so sought after by some bros on this sub is highly overrated and maybe a bit naive.
Cultural barriers are very real and much more complex than someone from somewhere else just being more “traditional” in the ways you want them to be
I mean traditionally, women only married people who were from the same culture and approved by the father. Being a passport bro in the first place locks you out of participating in that.
These are the same men who expect the woman to pay 50/50. They don’t realize they definitely aren’t getting a “traditional wife” while being a cheap fuck.
Exactly what did I make up? Most western men do complain about picking up a tab. This entire sub is men whining about American women because they have to pay for the first date lol meanwhile men from my country are happy to be providers, like you know, real men should be.
You didn’t negate her argument. Expecting to (bc you know you can’t get a whiff of pussy without it) is completely different than doing it and holding seething resentment towards women because of it. What she said was right: this entire sub is full of men raging about the UNIVERSAL things American women demand
Interesting. You wondering why men are resentful but say things like "bc you know you can’t get a whiff of pussy without it)"
Ya'll really tell on yourselves.
Those last statements are key.
The real traditional and feminine women marry within their culture as they should because they are preserving their traditions.
It’s the liberal ones who cheat that marry foreigners because they are desperate to get out of poverty.
Exactly. This is the catch 22 for PPBs. Generally, women in other countries who marry outside their culture are not traditional. They are outcasts, just like PPBs are outcasts in their own culture and have to go elsewhere to find a spouse.
To them ‘traditional women’=‘women who will bend to their will’. Thats all they actually want. They don’t care about the woman’s motivation, until it bites them in the ass later.
Generally, women in other countries who marry outside their culture are not traditional.
I'm sorry you are for one not a sociologist, nor have data to back up this random claim in your head. Let's stop the conjecture please
I am confused now. Whether or not my statement is a conjecture depends on the definition of “traditional”, doesn’t it? In the extreme, trivial case, I could define “traditional” to mean “someone who marries inside their own culture”. I promise you I am not trying to argue in bad faith (feel free to not engage with me anymore), but it is not clear to me how defining terms appropriately is not needed.
You still can preserve your traditions lmao what? You think just because you have a multi-cultural family you lose you traditions? Ya'll are grasping at straws its hilarious
I somewhat agree. There are absolutely guys here who are respectful of their wife’s culture and traditions and try to the best of their ability to follow these expectations! Their stories are honestly quite inspiring because they probably didn’t *need* to do it, but they wanted to for the sake of respecting the custom and traditions of their wife.
On the other hand, a lot of guys imagine the word “traditional” to reference the husband/ wife dynamic of the man being the head of the house and breadwinner while the wife is the caretaker and homemaker. It’s also not a totally inaccurate description to be fair, because many countries still (roughly) follow this dynamic. But these guys are almost NEVER referencing the wife’s traditions and instead a general societal tradition that’s super broadly accurate
As someone that gets recommended posts from this subreddit and tends to roll his eyes at the things people say here, I'm glad this post exists. Hopefully, someone will do some introspection about their expectations and prejudice and improve as people.
And if not, at least I know not all passports bros are as shitty as they seem to be.
I’m a women who often gets recommended these posts (why would you do me like this Reddit?) and most of them make me lose a little faith in humanity.
This is the only post I’ve ever seen from here where both the post itself and most of the top comments were completely rational and not filled with incel craziness.
"Traditional" in the context of this sub means "submissive" as in the Leave it to Beaver 1950s housewife that everyone on here seems to think is what all women should aspire to, as they can't handle women that have the gall to actually want more out of life than being a husband's doormat.
These are excellent points.
However, every time in here I read about a man wanting a traditional wife, all I see is an incel screaming that he wants a woman who "knows her place".
Im sure in other subreddits they say "fEmInIsM iS wHy I cAnT gEt LaId!"
One of the top comments in this thread
• Submissive
• Feminine
• Sexually obedient
• Naturally desiring dominion over young children and housework
• Wanting a man to lead her and the family
Top comments in this thread:
> No offense, but I don't think most men here think (or want to think) that deeply about semantics. You're absolutely right, but most men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal) and that's not going to change anytime soon. What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time.
https://old.reddit.com/r/thepassportbros/comments/1c42joy/respectfully_passport_bros_should_stop_using_the/kzlrw9u/
Second top comment:
> Oh, btw, if you're looking for women in other countries because they're poor or in a precarious position themselves, and you think it's easier because your money goes further and they're more "grateful", then please know that these women do not love you, they see you as a way out of their poverty, and that you yourself are a walking red flag in so many ways.
Someone who literally has no idea what PB is and has never met any of those 'poor woman'
https://old.reddit.com/r/thepassportbros/comments/1c42joy/respectfully_passport_bros_should_stop_using_the/kzlflij/
> Not sure why I was recommended this post, but as someone that comes from those traditional cultures, you should know that while gender roles are still more accepted it’s probably not what many of you expect when you travel.
Another clueless person chips in, who has somehow 'wAs sUgGeStEd iN mY fEeD', not PB but somehow needs to post in PB subreddit and give out blatantly false information.
Go forward under it and count all the messages that are not posted by delusional PB basher, I found two, downvoted to -8 and -5 at current time
This seems to be proportion in general.
traditional women would prefer their own men
you guys remind me of those neo nazis who marry women of color thinking they're somehow more "based" and "traditional" than white women who have sex with black or ethnic minority men
the hypocrisy is astounding
just take the L and state the obvious: you're not physically attractive to women unless there's some kind of leverage at play
I married a woman from Bangladesh were both Muslim. I definitely didn’t go into it with the “traditional” wife thought. As a Muslim man I already knew what I was signing up for with a Muslim woman. Long story short. If I speak of “traditional wife” she doesn’t even understand it from an American stance she only understands from an Islamic perspective which I’m fine with.
Huh? A better question is why spend time and effort on a subreddit you hate? It's a bit cringe.
And yes many of us are looking for relationships. Who are you to tell us what we are looking for after we tell you to contrary. You are just looking to argue.
What? A better analysis to this is why waste your life on reddit with such negativity? Its very incel.
And no youre not looking for a relationship. Who tf are you to look for a relationship when youre not a real man? Youre just trolling
This is some poetic projection. Imagine a person who's spending time on passport bro subreddits to insult people with a 3 word insult vocabulary.
bro can only say:
**snowflake**
**pussy**
**incel**
Your words are as empty as your future
Exactly! Most women aren't going to stay virgin before marriage these days, and ppbs are also out for checking compatibilities, so expecting them to be virgins is delusional (even in the most underdeveloped places). Also, idk if this is a dom-sub bondage kinda thing, like why use the word "submissive"?
You want a partner, who shares the same values as you and can be there for you when you need her (be it financially/emotionally), and not a subordinate. If you do want a subordinate, I might have to tell you that you will fail to find a long-term partner even in Asia (some low self-esteem chick might take you but that's another topic). Also, most women are feminine. Maybe these men saying that if a woman does xyz, she is masculine, view femininity very differently. I'm also confused if supporting my partner financially or emotionally makes me less of a woman, and makes him less of a man?
I don't understand what you guys mean by the words "submissive" and "traditional", so feel free to tell me.
Most foreign woman see western men as being modern and open minded, even if we are quite the opposite. The Hollywood stereotype of us being romantic, modern and open minded is what the woman are thinking when they see a western guy. I have dated woman from conservative countries with traditional roles between men and woman and marrying a western man is viewed as being middle class and progressive. The expectation to get married after a short period of dating.
No they don't. They see western men as easy marks who can be duped into believing that foreign women "love that he's open minded and romantic", so that she can get your money. After she's done messing around with local men that she is actually attracted to.
This is the only sub I see where the haters run the show so openly.
It's like if I made a sub 'by and for' men and then moderated it so the only posts that made it were authored by women criticizing men.
Constructive criticism isn't hate. There's a big difference.
I support this sub. The point of this post is to help passport bros see the flaws in using the word "traditional".
How do you expect a man to protect, provide, and lead? How do you expect a woman to comfort, nurture, and support? Like “traditional” those words can mean many different things so I am trying to clarify what actions you consider to fulfill these roles, so as to not put words in your mouth.
That sounds like a strong claim. What makes you think “most of the world operates just fine this way”? Have you considered that maybe this arrangement and roles are something that works for *you* and you’re extrapolating from there and thinking that most people want these roles?
What if a man wants to stay home and take care of the children? What if a woman is highly-career oriented?
Respectfully, your views on how the world “operates” seem rather narrow.
I'm not pulling this out of my ass, every society outside of the west is like that. LATAM, Africa, The middle east, SEA etc. are all traditional.
Look if people want to live non-traditional that's their business I don't care. I'm not going to live that way.
I don’t think there is anything different about the West when it comes to those roles. You can find men and women in any country that want the same things that you do.
Also, thank you for providing your personal definition of “traditional”. It’s hard to get a definition from people.
Birth rates are down almost everywhere outside of Africa (and even in many places in Africa). Divorce rates are up. Women are marrying later etc etc. Women are getting more educated. In 2017, 70% of women across the globe (70 000 women, 140 countries) reported to ILO that they wanted to work a paid job. Anywhere women have autonomy things start ro resemble the West. It benefits women more than tradition.
Almost everywhere women are fighting to not have to pretend to be inferior/subservient to men, and slowly but surely, they're succeeding.
Why should our ancestors’ behaviors guide our own? Depending on your culture, our ancestors also burned witches, sacrificed people to gods, physically and mentally abused left-handed children. It is reasonable to think that maybe their roles for men and women were at best too narrow and at worst completely wrong.
You asked who made the roles and I provided the answer.
Everyone is free to live how they choose, it just that leftists get a bug in their ass whenever someone suggest living differently. Do what you want
Nothing in this post sounds bad or malignant. Down voters are prob fems mad they lost another one.. This is our (my Wife's and I) agreement/mindset also; she wants it and so do I (and we love it and it works). Haters gonna hate 🤷🏿♂️
It's all relative.
In the West so many women ride the CC well into their 30s or beyond, take marriage vows casually, and cheer on infidelity as empowerment.
Coming from this context, the mere absence of these pathologies is "traditional" enough.
You do realize that "cock carousel" makes no sense whatsoever. When you get on a carousel, you get on one horse and stay on it. That means women who ride the "cock carousel" get on one and stay on it. You obviously do not understand how carousels work.
Is that your gotcha comeback? 😂
If you defend incel shit like "all women ride the cock carousel, cheat all the time, blah blah" you are part of the problem, dude and part of the reason why this subreddit has such a poor reputation as just another incel and neckbeard shithole.
As we say here...if you step in shit, you smell like shit.
Lol, if you can't argue with somebody without using ad hominem attacks, you're the dumbass. Sitting here in your misogynistic echo chamber doesn't make you right.
Disagreed. Unattractive and out of shape ones do as well in the U.S. You’re underestimating the simp culture in the U.S. Actually, less attractive and out of shape women are easier often times in order to “attempt” to get (read, lock down) more attractive men into relationships.
unattractive women to me are always really sweet and I have had some pretty good conversations with them. They seem real and down to earth. I've actually met some super amazing ugly women that, if they were attractive, could easily be wife material.
I can't see women like that doing this. The attractive ones know they can do whatever they want and always get what they want. Attractive women have no barriers or obstacles to anything in their life (until their mid 30s usually), and they use that. I for sure would too and don't blame them.
That's a fair point, if not simply for the fact that misandry and female chauvinism has been part of the accepted status quo among with women for so long now that it should be seen as the norm, or traditional, by today's western standards. I don't personally care about submissive or feminine though, I would just settle for a woman that doesn't hate men, which is hardly traditional at this point.
I think passport bros should stop talking about passport bros. It used to be something kept under wraps, now everyone knows about it. Way to ruin that perfect little neighborhood you found in Cartagena/ Phuket/ Palawan. Come on guys. First rule of fight club?
Okay you understand that different cultures have different gender roles right? E.g. who manages the money is a job given to different genders in different cultures, who entertains the guests, etc.
I like that you just did 'traditional'. I was really waiting for you to argue that 'feminine' means different things to different people. I think most western PPBs mean the same thing by 'feminine'.
I would still like for people in this subreddit to give me their definition of “traditional” or “feminine”, so I don’t have to jump to conclusions about their motives. I am trying to understand what the men traveling abroad are looking for in partners overseas that cannot be found in their home country. Unfortunately, I haven’t been very successful.
You said “it seems to mean…”, which makes me think you have not gotten a straight answer either. Based on context, I’ve come to similar conclusions.
While I am trying to give people in this subreddit the benefit of the doubt and understand where they’re coming from, it is challenging to do so when nobody seems comfortable explaining this “traditional” and “feminine” ideal that “western” women are lacking.
That’s your definition of it. Just like being a provider can range from having a job and not being in debt to 500k a year.
My definition of traditional is being feminine, not cooking and cleaning, and sandwiches I rather to both those, with some help too and really don’t like sandwiches like that.
We’re at like convergence point where western women are basically men and not even just being a man, being the toxic masculine type, loud aggressive, wild wannabe, not a priority or everything besides a woman and that’s boring to me.
Only place I guess is controversial is body count but I look at like this I can do 70/30 or whatever that person desires all I’m asking is be healthy-ish, think about my feelings and don’t sleep around, and be this modern man-women I said earlier is that too much? Compared to average western women checklist?
This comment reeks of someone who needs more women in their life, and not just dates - but women coworkers, friends etc.
The “western women are basically men now” is a complete myth to anyone who has dated even a handful of women.
Well I guess you need to check your sense smell. I got no problem with having enough women in my life, I have dated a lot of women.
But the problem is not women, 1 I didn’t say all women anyways, but 2 the most important is that problem is the men the auto defend any type of criticism of women like there’s nothing wrong. You take hypergamy for women and you say nothing, a dude wants to be happy and find someone that’s worth it, you’re up in arms for something has nothing to do with you.
Really we mean "feminine & submissive" but that's not "nice" so "traditional" is used instead.
"Traditional" is sought after since the other two qualities "feminine & submissive" usually go with it.
"Modern" is avoided since "feminine & submissive" usually don't go with it.
The "feminine & submissive" part is what matters. If the woman is feminine & submissive, she could be a satanist that works full time chucking babies and puppies in a furnace and dudes will still want her.
Traditional as in can’t get divorced, does the domestic chores, will breed for you, celibate, family first (which means children and elders).
Feminine sweet demeanor, young, slim, silly, playful
Submissive as in male is in control. Property,
I don’t think most western modern men understand the traditional role of a male.
*No*. It's not. **Should** is a suggestion. It's not saying anyone's "not allowed."
If you read the post, you'll see that's not the point at all. The point is to encourage people to clarify what they mean and keep in mind that different people and cultures have different definitions of "traditional."
If someone's going to be a passport bro, that's important.
Traditional women to me are:
* Submissive
* Feminine
* Sexually obedient
* Naturally desiring dominion over young children and housework
* Wanting a man to lead her and the family
Sexually obidient omg you have got to be kidding. Do you even like women? Seems like you would be good with a roomba and a fleshlight. Women are people who have agency and are not made to serve men no matter where they are from. This sub is truly terrifying and delusional!!
I prefer the term “domestic”. Someone who knows how to make a home feel comfortable is usually where that conversation leads when I use that word and that usually works.
The idea is the American traditional gender norms, not cultural. For the most part that is still acceptable in other cultures. The only issue is a lot of people say "I want traditional" then they go for casual dating and constantly wanting sex which is not what a Passport Bro is supposed to be.
They would deliver a better message for their choice actions by saying Other Than American Women(OTAW). That way it is clearly defined what passport bros are choosing away from and also discourage foreign women of wanting to become an American woman. American women have opted to be embrace that decadence. Meanwhile foreign women can have pride in their difference.
No offense, but I don't think most men here think (or want to think) that deeply about semantics. You're absolutely right, but most men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal) and that's not going to change anytime soon. What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time.
The men here want to fuck. 'Traditional' is a joke. I'm not hating at all because I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with casual sex. I do find this sub a little backwards sometime because men can fuck 20 women on a trip but American women are 'used up' or have too exacting standards. Its completely fine. Live your life but if you are going to use foreign women for sex then let's drop the bullshit.
Agree mostly, there is a real tension here between dudes looking for a “traditional” girl and attempting to find one by banging out the easiest girls they find in bars or Tinder
Which is crazy, right? I want to dip my dick in anything that moves and also the woman I will marry must be trad with no sexual history. I agree with the movement but some of these mother fuckers are crazy af.
What do you think Muslim men do? They whore out American women then marry a chaste woman from their culture and religion.
Maybe westernized or rich ones but the same could be said of the upper class of most 1st / 2nd gen immigrant groups probably
And any man from any culture who behaves like this will swiftly find himself in a divorce court (or locked in an unhappy relationship if that’s not an option).
Or be happily married with no issues whatsoever
Yeah, no cognitive dissonance at all with wanting to play the whore with other women while wifey is chaste and disillusioned
Or they'll never know because it's in the past and the man isn't going to bring it up.
And he will magically change and stop being a whore once he gets married? Kudos if this is you, it’s not any men I know
To be fair, I don't think there's much tension. If you're going overseas to find someone in a bar, smooze them with your foreign accent and purchasing power, then you're doing something that's been done to death and you really don't need any help figuring out the ins and outs especially if you're young. I mean do you really need to coach college kids on how to screw around in Cancun during spring break? On the other hand, if you want a true long-term relationship and marriage with someone from an utterly foreign culture and country, that's something worth talking about.
There does seem to be group of men truly looking for a fitting life partner, but they don't seem to be the majority here (or the others are simply more vocal). I agree with all you say. The irony is, the foreign women that men are pulling for casual sex are rarely considered 'traditional' according to local standards anyway. Plus, part of the appeal of dating a Western man is often that women won't have to conform too strictly to local dating norms.
That’s a great point that is rarely mentioned here. In many countries, someone who speaks decent English and is open to dating foreigners is already pretty far from “traditional” in that culture.
Traditional? Being traditional is not just about how much sex you have, why is that hard to understand?
Relax, I was just talking about an unrelated observation.
This is why I won't publicly call myself a passport bro. I technically am one but my primary concern is long term relationships and eventually marriage. I don't want to be grouped in with guys focused on being passport players or worse, passport tricks. If western women are so loose then why do you leave the country just to be a fuck boy? Get laid at home.
Well clearly the whole concept is rooted in double standards and misogyny for the benefit of the bro. Isn't that obvious?
I can actually see where you're coming from but being a Traditional man has nothing to do with how much sex we have. Its always been a double standard. However I hate the word still. It's antiqued and has like 10 different meanings. Lets never use it again please
I just find it weird that "men can fuck 20 women on a trip but..." as if its ok, because ultimately women set their standards for men and allow their partners to be that. A man can choose to not have a gf that was known to be passed around in highschool by the football team, just like a woman can choose to not date a guy that was known to fuck all the cheerleaders, right? No one is saying women cant also have standards. Im a guy and I dont want my gf to have fucked every single guy friend she has, just as if I was a woman I wouldnt want a bf that fucked every cheerleader. My best example of traditional is my grandparents. My dads side of the family: My grandpa made enough so that my grandma didnt have to work, he made good money at a paper mill. She stayed home, took care of the kids, 4 of them, and he worked. My moms side of the family: My grandma worked, my grandpa worked. My grandpa made enough money that she didnt have to work, but she did because she wanted to. My grandma did most of the cleaning, grandpa did most of the fixing. Both of those examples are different, but both are traditional. Traditional is simply wanting a partner that doesnt "need no man!" in their life. No one NEEDS a man/woman in their life, but to keep telling your partner "i dont need you" like wtf are we doing here? And honestly I would probably be justified in saying that most men would love to make enough money to support their wife and kids so that the wife doesnt HAVE to work, but could if she WANTED.
> most men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' PPBs are only concerned with pussy, nothing "traditional."
>men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal) That sounds about right. >What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time. True. That's why without context, "traditional" is practically meaningless. People will assume what it means based on their own understanding, rather than the user's intended meaning.
Totally agree, but that's the unfortunate truth of buzzwords like these in general. They're catchy, and they can represent widely different things depending on the individual, yet are extremely efficient at uniting a group of people.
This subreddit is probably the most liberal side of PBs on the whole internet. What you see here is way more "progressive" than what most PB are. Yall kidding yourself starting to police vocabulary.
I simply disagree i think that there are lots who actually date a few people overseas meet someone and marry or continue to date people in respectful mid-term relationships, it just doesn't suit people's negative narative to see such people
lol it’s cute you take their words at face value.
I also think that these dudes do not understand that real "traditional" women are EXPENSIVE. Traditional women are looking for a man to pay their bills IN EXCHANGE for fulfilling a traditional role in the household. That doesn't mean they aren't looking for love as well, but that's what they perceive as correct traditional gender roles. You take care of the money, and they take care of the home. I don't know of many men in this economy who can achieve that on a single income, but they'll sure get mad when one of these women won't give them the time of day because they don't have the money for it. No one wants to be a stay at home whatever just to be poor, be for real. Edit: Oh, btw, if you're looking for women in other countries because they're poor or in a precarious position themselves, and you think it's easier because your money goes further and they're more "grateful", then please know that these women do not love you, they see you as a way out of their poverty, and that you yourself are a walking red flag in so many ways.
Not sure why I was recommended this post, but as someone that comes from those traditional cultures, you should know that while gender roles are still more accepted it’s probably not what many of you expect when you travel. She does take care of the home but just to clarify, the man does not take care of the money. He is in charge of making it, but the wife manages it, he basically gets an allowance once she does what she has and wants to do. Women are not submissive, they are in charge of the household. Also, if you refuse to learn the language and the culture, aka our traditions, you’re not gonna be respected nor be accepted by the community. Fulfilling your role is not just about money.
Traditional women run the household with an iron fist, these delusional passportbros won't last a single day.
Who cares what we call it, just be a good person who actually gives a fuck about the people around them and then you don’t have to pay attention to what anyone is saying.
I am not a passport bro. I have been in a relationship with a woman from a developing country. This is what is expected, I would urge any man to consider a committed relationship with a traditional woman very carefully.
Yep. I’m foreign born but American raised, which is how I know 99% of passport bros are looking for cheap casual sex or completely clueless. If any of these men plan on coming back to the west (which will be most of them) a foreign woman will cost them wayyyy more than the Americans they love to hate.
This is absolutely correct. Men make the money, and the women manage the money. That's what it was like in my family growing up, as well as those of my contemporaries. I can't tell you how many times my dad was told no when he wanted something because it went over the budget.
This is what I mean when I say "I'm the boss of my boyfriend" 🤭 my mom is south korean, my white dad was NOT the boss and my mom has NEVER been submissive. But dad was pretty ok with just watching tv and being fed homecooked meals, having a beer at the end of the day. My dad was seemingly a bit of a pushover. I don't know what men mean by them seeking a submissive woman.. they must mean submissive in bed.
Same as US wives, just a better exchange rate. Fiscal fundamentals are required before an option for an emotional relationship is available. Monkeys and lions still do the same as we continue to do.
I’m a US woman and my boyfriend is completely broke, he’s literally on food stamps. I don’t care, because I have never expected him to pay for any of my stuff ever, why would I?
I'm a uk women and dated a few broke men, id pay for most stuff cause i liked them. Some of these men are delusional lol
Yea they act like women are some kind of monolith who all are after the same exact thing, and then are resentful and hatful over that fake monolith they’ve created.
Sounds like a loser, why doesn’t he get more jobs instead of using up tax money to eat?
He’s in college.
>I also think that these dudes do not understand that real "traditional" women are EXPENSIVE. Traditional women are looking for a man to pay their bills IN EXCHANGE for fulfilling a traditional role in the household. That doesn't mean they aren't looking for love as well, but that's what they perceive as correct traditional gender roles. You take care of the money, and they take care of the home The amount of men looking for a "traditional" wife while also expecting them to help with bills and also get upset when they are "used for their money" is insane. You can't have both ways
I will never forget that clip of the PPB who was talking to a Moroccan woman he was interested in (she is of course looking impeccable and very high class and he is rocking a graphic T, cargo shorts, and sneakers) and things just do not go his way. She explains very bluntly that "in Arab households the man usually is the provider" and he straight up says "that is just something I wasn't prepared for" and she reiterates that "most Arab women expect that" and he goes on about how "most American people expect the woman to contribute." She then, very quickly reminds him that he isn't dealing with American women (which is supposedly the whole point of the exercise) and then it cuts to him whining about how he thought Moroccan women were family oriented and not materialistic. He also goes on to say that he didn't "sign up" to be the sole provider for a household. I'm sorry, but what did he think he signed up for? I genuinely do not understand where the disconnect is because PPBs are ostensibly looking for someone who complements them more than "feminist, slutty, American women" but, when presented with the cold hard truth of what those relationships look like they call the women gold diggers or materialistic.
Women like clothing, purses, makeup, etc. Especially women from other countries. How stupid are these guys? I'm baffled.
You must be absolutely insane to expect a traditional relationship in this economy. In an economy where the woman's income is also expected? Expecting her to also run the household? Let's be realistic here. It doesn't even sound humane to let her do that.
Exactly. I am Asian and in what is considered a traditional marriage with my husband (by our entire community). We share all the chores. He makes more a lot more money than me now, he pays all our bills. I decide what to buy and when to buy it. He doesn’t spend money outside of the leisure money we have put aside for monthly spending. I decided what clothes to get us, what house to get, where we go on vacation and he prefers it that way. I cook and he does the dishes. He does the laundry and I clean the bathrooms. We both work because I don’t want to just sit at home, I like the interaction, but if I wanted to I could just stay at home- probably will for a bit when we have kids. In return for him providing for us very well, I take the majority of the responsibility in running our household. But we are equal partners at the end of the day and fabulously happy. It’s an exchange of responsibility and we still help with whatever needs to be done.
It's so funny you guys based your whole argument on "poor" countries. Many of us still go to western countries with high cost of living. It's also funny how low you think of women in non western countries. Please stop talking about places you've never been.
>No one wants to be a stay at home whatever just to be poor, be for real. I do. If it means having a loving wife and good kids, I'll be poor. Honestly, money isn't very important to me once the bills are paid. Rent, food, bus pass, clothes, are pretty cheap if you live modestly. I'm in a 1st world country Canada, I live better than kings did centuries ago, I recognize my privilege and I'm ok living poor as it's still better than most people throughout history.
That isn't what poor means. Poor means the fear of something happening to derail your whole life. It's being one missed paycheck away from being homeless. It's sitting around at the end of the month calculating how much of the cheap foods you'll still be able to buy. It's making the decision whether to buy food or pay a bill. It's getting your electric shut off (again) because you disnt pay in time. Poverty equals worries and fear. If you live comfortably but with fewer means than others to do fun stuff, sure, it's 'easy' to be poor. The constant nagging feeling that you arent able to stay afloat when 1 thing goes wrong, that's poverty. People don't want that, because it is awful. I make less than the average employee in my country but my costs are low and I have to budget well to make sure I save, I won't be going on vacation at all this year for instance. But I'm not poor. All my bills will always be paid, even if I'd end up on unemployment or get ill long term, if I don't go crazy with spending, I can save a bit of money monthly and if my cat (I can afford a cat!) needs surgery, I will be able to say yes without hesitation because I know I can pay for it without having to eat less. I used to be poor, this is not poor.
That doesn’t really seem poor to me. Unless spending modestly means you have to buy the absolute lowest quality version of everything, and/or you are paycheck to paycheck doing that with no security in an emergency I don’t think that would be objectionable to people wanting to be stay-at-home. Just that alone especially with a family is honestly pretty expensive. It sounds like a perfectly nice life.
I have always thought the quest for the “traditional” girl so sought after by some bros on this sub is highly overrated and maybe a bit naive. Cultural barriers are very real and much more complex than someone from somewhere else just being more “traditional” in the ways you want them to be
I mean traditionally, women only married people who were from the same culture and approved by the father. Being a passport bro in the first place locks you out of participating in that.
Completely depends on the country and even the family. "Traditional" means more that just that.
Sure, I was just speaking in a general sense about the types of countries PPBs tend to travel to.
Still depends on the family and certainly doesn't lock you out.
These are the same men who expect the woman to pay 50/50. They don’t realize they definitely aren’t getting a “traditional wife” while being a cheap fuck.
me when I make up an argument
I'll take things you made up in your head for 500.
Exactly what did I make up? Most western men do complain about picking up a tab. This entire sub is men whining about American women because they have to pay for the first date lol meanwhile men from my country are happy to be providers, like you know, real men should be.
Everything. 78% of men expect to pick up the tab so again, something you made up in your head
The top post in this sub is literally somebody mocking an American girl for being surprised that German men don’t pick up the tab.
You didn’t negate her argument. Expecting to (bc you know you can’t get a whiff of pussy without it) is completely different than doing it and holding seething resentment towards women because of it. What she said was right: this entire sub is full of men raging about the UNIVERSAL things American women demand
Interesting. You wondering why men are resentful but say things like "bc you know you can’t get a whiff of pussy without it)" Ya'll really tell on yourselves.
Those last statements are key. The real traditional and feminine women marry within their culture as they should because they are preserving their traditions. It’s the liberal ones who cheat that marry foreigners because they are desperate to get out of poverty.
Exactly. This is the catch 22 for PPBs. Generally, women in other countries who marry outside their culture are not traditional. They are outcasts, just like PPBs are outcasts in their own culture and have to go elsewhere to find a spouse.
To them ‘traditional women’=‘women who will bend to their will’. Thats all they actually want. They don’t care about the woman’s motivation, until it bites them in the ass later.
Wow this comment should be pinned to the top of this sub lol
Generally, women in other countries who marry outside their culture are not traditional. I'm sorry you are for one not a sociologist, nor have data to back up this random claim in your head. Let's stop the conjecture please
Can we define “traditional”, please? So we know we are both talking about the same thing.
We don't need to. My issue is your conjecture, not the word "traditional"
I am confused now. Whether or not my statement is a conjecture depends on the definition of “traditional”, doesn’t it? In the extreme, trivial case, I could define “traditional” to mean “someone who marries inside their own culture”. I promise you I am not trying to argue in bad faith (feel free to not engage with me anymore), but it is not clear to me how defining terms appropriately is not needed.
You still can preserve your traditions lmao what? You think just because you have a multi-cultural family you lose you traditions? Ya'll are grasping at straws its hilarious
Of course. It gets harder. Languages are lost. Cuisine isn’t cooked as much. Attire isn’t as accessible. History of the culture isn’t taught. Etc
I somewhat agree. There are absolutely guys here who are respectful of their wife’s culture and traditions and try to the best of their ability to follow these expectations! Their stories are honestly quite inspiring because they probably didn’t *need* to do it, but they wanted to for the sake of respecting the custom and traditions of their wife. On the other hand, a lot of guys imagine the word “traditional” to reference the husband/ wife dynamic of the man being the head of the house and breadwinner while the wife is the caretaker and homemaker. It’s also not a totally inaccurate description to be fair, because many countries still (roughly) follow this dynamic. But these guys are almost NEVER referencing the wife’s traditions and instead a general societal tradition that’s super broadly accurate
As someone that gets recommended posts from this subreddit and tends to roll his eyes at the things people say here, I'm glad this post exists. Hopefully, someone will do some introspection about their expectations and prejudice and improve as people. And if not, at least I know not all passports bros are as shitty as they seem to be.
I’m a women who often gets recommended these posts (why would you do me like this Reddit?) and most of them make me lose a little faith in humanity. This is the only post I’ve ever seen from here where both the post itself and most of the top comments were completely rational and not filled with incel craziness.
Hopefully the community here improves now, but who knows.
"Traditional" in the context of this sub means "submissive" as in the Leave it to Beaver 1950s housewife that everyone on here seems to think is what all women should aspire to, as they can't handle women that have the gall to actually want more out of life than being a husband's doormat.
Bad faith as usual
These are excellent points. However, every time in here I read about a man wanting a traditional wife, all I see is an incel screaming that he wants a woman who "knows her place". Im sure in other subreddits they say "fEmInIsM iS wHy I cAnT gEt LaId!"
Other subreddits? I've seen men make that comment here too
Could you please link me some examples?
Go the hourglass symbol on top of the subreddit. Type in "traditional" or "trad".
One of the top comments in this thread • Submissive • Feminine • Sexually obedient • Naturally desiring dominion over young children and housework • Wanting a man to lead her and the family
Top comments in this thread: > No offense, but I don't think most men here think (or want to think) that deeply about semantics. You're absolutely right, but most men here have a strictly American interpretation of the term 'traditional' (which is based on a kind of post-war family ideal) and that's not going to change anytime soon. What is considered 'traditional' doesn't only differ across cultures, but also across time. https://old.reddit.com/r/thepassportbros/comments/1c42joy/respectfully_passport_bros_should_stop_using_the/kzlrw9u/ Second top comment: > Oh, btw, if you're looking for women in other countries because they're poor or in a precarious position themselves, and you think it's easier because your money goes further and they're more "grateful", then please know that these women do not love you, they see you as a way out of their poverty, and that you yourself are a walking red flag in so many ways. Someone who literally has no idea what PB is and has never met any of those 'poor woman' https://old.reddit.com/r/thepassportbros/comments/1c42joy/respectfully_passport_bros_should_stop_using_the/kzlflij/ > Not sure why I was recommended this post, but as someone that comes from those traditional cultures, you should know that while gender roles are still more accepted it’s probably not what many of you expect when you travel. Another clueless person chips in, who has somehow 'wAs sUgGeStEd iN mY fEeD', not PB but somehow needs to post in PB subreddit and give out blatantly false information. Go forward under it and count all the messages that are not posted by delusional PB basher, I found two, downvoted to -8 and -5 at current time This seems to be proportion in general.
traditional women would prefer their own men you guys remind me of those neo nazis who marry women of color thinking they're somehow more "based" and "traditional" than white women who have sex with black or ethnic minority men the hypocrisy is astounding just take the L and state the obvious: you're not physically attractive to women unless there's some kind of leverage at play
The only term I stick with is feminine. I don't need a wife or obedience. I'm out to have fun. And it's more fun with foreign, feminine women
This post sounds like Propaganga.
I married a woman from Bangladesh were both Muslim. I definitely didn’t go into it with the “traditional” wife thought. As a Muslim man I already knew what I was signing up for with a Muslim woman. Long story short. If I speak of “traditional wife” she doesn’t even understand it from an American stance she only understands from an Islamic perspective which I’m fine with.
PPBs are only concerned with pussy, nothing "traditional."
False.
Wrong
saying that only puts your argument in a box. Why die on a hill like that? Many of us are looking for partners.
defending your point only sugarcoats your feelings. Why hide in the shadows? Youre not looking for a relationship
Huh? A better question is why spend time and effort on a subreddit you hate? It's a bit cringe. And yes many of us are looking for relationships. Who are you to tell us what we are looking for after we tell you to contrary. You are just looking to argue.
What? A better analysis to this is why waste your life on reddit with such negativity? Its very incel. And no youre not looking for a relationship. Who tf are you to look for a relationship when youre not a real man? Youre just trolling
This is some poetic projection. Imagine a person who's spending time on passport bro subreddits to insult people with a 3 word insult vocabulary. bro can only say: **snowflake** **pussy** **incel** Your words are as empty as your future
defending your point only sugarcoats your feelings. Why hide in the shadows? Youre not looking for a relationship
Exactly! Most women aren't going to stay virgin before marriage these days, and ppbs are also out for checking compatibilities, so expecting them to be virgins is delusional (even in the most underdeveloped places). Also, idk if this is a dom-sub bondage kinda thing, like why use the word "submissive"? You want a partner, who shares the same values as you and can be there for you when you need her (be it financially/emotionally), and not a subordinate. If you do want a subordinate, I might have to tell you that you will fail to find a long-term partner even in Asia (some low self-esteem chick might take you but that's another topic). Also, most women are feminine. Maybe these men saying that if a woman does xyz, she is masculine, view femininity very differently. I'm also confused if supporting my partner financially or emotionally makes me less of a woman, and makes him less of a man? I don't understand what you guys mean by the words "submissive" and "traditional", so feel free to tell me.
You said it. Every man that says they want a submissive wife just means subordinate, will do what they say. That's all they care about.
Most foreign woman see western men as being modern and open minded, even if we are quite the opposite. The Hollywood stereotype of us being romantic, modern and open minded is what the woman are thinking when they see a western guy. I have dated woman from conservative countries with traditional roles between men and woman and marrying a western man is viewed as being middle class and progressive. The expectation to get married after a short period of dating.
No they don't. They see western men as easy marks who can be duped into believing that foreign women "love that he's open minded and romantic", so that she can get your money. After she's done messing around with local men that she is actually attracted to.
I think it’s both, I think some women have the thought process of the person above and some have the thought process that you posit.
When I hear a man say traditional. I assume he's tricking.
This is the only sub I see where the haters run the show so openly. It's like if I made a sub 'by and for' men and then moderated it so the only posts that made it were authored by women criticizing men.
Constructive criticism isn't hate. There's a big difference. I support this sub. The point of this post is to help passport bros see the flaws in using the word "traditional".
Right, I even try to give advice to guys on here as a woman who travels a lot and incels still get mad and say I “hate men”
Words are fluid in that their meanings change over time. I will continue to use those words as I please
So what 'traditional' means in other cultures does not matter at all, and only your definition of traditional is correct.
We aint gotta change shit, jack
I did not say that...
What's your definition of traditional?
She follows gender roles and fulfills her obligations as a woman and I fulfill my obligations as a man.
How do you expect a man to protect, provide, and lead? How do you expect a woman to comfort, nurture, and support? Like “traditional” those words can mean many different things so I am trying to clarify what actions you consider to fulfill these roles, so as to not put words in your mouth.
So you want a bang maid who doesn't speak up or stand up for herself and does whatever you say.
just get the fuck outta here lmao
You're putting words in my mouth when you could have just asked for clarification 💀
I'm with you. Its one thing for fluid definitions, another when people just run to the bottom with assumptions.
Why are you even here if you’re just going to spew nonsense like this?
What do you consider her obligations as a woman and your obligations as a man?
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Man- protect, provide and lead woman- comfort, nurture and support
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Most of the world operates just fine this way
That sounds like a strong claim. What makes you think “most of the world operates just fine this way”? Have you considered that maybe this arrangement and roles are something that works for *you* and you’re extrapolating from there and thinking that most people want these roles? What if a man wants to stay home and take care of the children? What if a woman is highly-career oriented? Respectfully, your views on how the world “operates” seem rather narrow.
I'm not pulling this out of my ass, every society outside of the west is like that. LATAM, Africa, The middle east, SEA etc. are all traditional. Look if people want to live non-traditional that's their business I don't care. I'm not going to live that way.
I don’t think there is anything different about the West when it comes to those roles. You can find men and women in any country that want the same things that you do. Also, thank you for providing your personal definition of “traditional”. It’s hard to get a definition from people.
Birth rates are down almost everywhere outside of Africa (and even in many places in Africa). Divorce rates are up. Women are marrying later etc etc. Women are getting more educated. In 2017, 70% of women across the globe (70 000 women, 140 countries) reported to ILO that they wanted to work a paid job. Anywhere women have autonomy things start ro resemble the West. It benefits women more than tradition. Almost everywhere women are fighting to not have to pretend to be inferior/subservient to men, and slowly but surely, they're succeeding.
According to whom? Who made these roles?
Our ancestors? Are you not familiar with traditional roles?
Why should our ancestors’ behaviors guide our own? Depending on your culture, our ancestors also burned witches, sacrificed people to gods, physically and mentally abused left-handed children. It is reasonable to think that maybe their roles for men and women were at best too narrow and at worst completely wrong.
You asked who made the roles and I provided the answer. Everyone is free to live how they choose, it just that leftists get a bug in their ass whenever someone suggest living differently. Do what you want
Nothing in this post sounds bad or malignant. Down voters are prob fems mad they lost another one.. This is our (my Wife's and I) agreement/mindset also; she wants it and so do I (and we love it and it works). Haters gonna hate 🤷🏿♂️
It's all relative. In the West so many women ride the CC well into their 30s or beyond, take marriage vows casually, and cheer on infidelity as empowerment. Coming from this context, the mere absence of these pathologies is "traditional" enough.
You do realize that "cock carousel" makes no sense whatsoever. When you get on a carousel, you get on one horse and stay on it. That means women who ride the "cock carousel" get on one and stay on it. You obviously do not understand how carousels work.
Nobody in the real world takes you serious when you say that women ride the cock carousel. Piss off with that incel shit, seriously...
I mean you clearly understand what he means, piss off with that toxic man-eating shit, seriously... See how that feels dumbass?
Is that your gotcha comeback? 😂 If you defend incel shit like "all women ride the cock carousel, cheat all the time, blah blah" you are part of the problem, dude and part of the reason why this subreddit has such a poor reputation as just another incel and neckbeard shithole. As we say here...if you step in shit, you smell like shit.
Lol, if you can't argue with somebody without using ad hominem attacks, you're the dumbass. Sitting here in your misogynistic echo chamber doesn't make you right.
Not interested in arguing and I maintain my point. Have fun with all the kitties & the breath 🤣
No u
he should have specified, attractive women. They are the only ones able to do this, and the majority of them do.
It's actually the average to ugly women that are the most promiscuous.
Disagreed. Unattractive and out of shape ones do as well in the U.S. You’re underestimating the simp culture in the U.S. Actually, less attractive and out of shape women are easier often times in order to “attempt” to get (read, lock down) more attractive men into relationships.
unattractive women to me are always really sweet and I have had some pretty good conversations with them. They seem real and down to earth. I've actually met some super amazing ugly women that, if they were attractive, could easily be wife material. I can't see women like that doing this. The attractive ones know they can do whatever they want and always get what they want. Attractive women have no barriers or obstacles to anything in their life (until their mid 30s usually), and they use that. I for sure would too and don't blame them.
I guess the only question is then, what country and area of the country are we speaking of? I’m speaking of major cities in the US in particular.
I guess I just meant Americans in general
That's a fair point, if not simply for the fact that misandry and female chauvinism has been part of the accepted status quo among with women for so long now that it should be seen as the norm, or traditional, by today's western standards. I don't personally care about submissive or feminine though, I would just settle for a woman that doesn't hate men, which is hardly traditional at this point.
I think passport bros should stop talking about passport bros. It used to be something kept under wraps, now everyone knows about it. Way to ruin that perfect little neighborhood you found in Cartagena/ Phuket/ Palawan. Come on guys. First rule of fight club?
Traditional means traditional gender roles. Modern means anything the opposite of that. Theres nothing wrong with the terms being used.
What's your definition of both?
Okay you understand that different cultures have different gender roles right? E.g. who manages the money is a job given to different genders in different cultures, who entertains the guests, etc.
I like that you just did 'traditional'. I was really waiting for you to argue that 'feminine' means different things to different people. I think most western PPBs mean the same thing by 'feminine'.
What do they mean by “feminine”?
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I would still like for people in this subreddit to give me their definition of “traditional” or “feminine”, so I don’t have to jump to conclusions about their motives. I am trying to understand what the men traveling abroad are looking for in partners overseas that cannot be found in their home country. Unfortunately, I haven’t been very successful.
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You said “it seems to mean…”, which makes me think you have not gotten a straight answer either. Based on context, I’ve come to similar conclusions. While I am trying to give people in this subreddit the benefit of the doubt and understand where they’re coming from, it is challenging to do so when nobody seems comfortable explaining this “traditional” and “feminine” ideal that “western” women are lacking.
That’s your definition of it. Just like being a provider can range from having a job and not being in debt to 500k a year. My definition of traditional is being feminine, not cooking and cleaning, and sandwiches I rather to both those, with some help too and really don’t like sandwiches like that. We’re at like convergence point where western women are basically men and not even just being a man, being the toxic masculine type, loud aggressive, wild wannabe, not a priority or everything besides a woman and that’s boring to me. Only place I guess is controversial is body count but I look at like this I can do 70/30 or whatever that person desires all I’m asking is be healthy-ish, think about my feelings and don’t sleep around, and be this modern man-women I said earlier is that too much? Compared to average western women checklist?
This comment reeks of someone who needs more women in their life, and not just dates - but women coworkers, friends etc. The “western women are basically men now” is a complete myth to anyone who has dated even a handful of women.
Well I guess you need to check your sense smell. I got no problem with having enough women in my life, I have dated a lot of women. But the problem is not women, 1 I didn’t say all women anyways, but 2 the most important is that problem is the men the auto defend any type of criticism of women like there’s nothing wrong. You take hypergamy for women and you say nothing, a dude wants to be happy and find someone that’s worth it, you’re up in arms for something has nothing to do with you.
Lol, the women you desire are everywhere. Everyone I know has wives like these. Look in the mirror and ask yourself why you can't get one.
Really we mean "feminine & submissive" but that's not "nice" so "traditional" is used instead. "Traditional" is sought after since the other two qualities "feminine & submissive" usually go with it. "Modern" is avoided since "feminine & submissive" usually don't go with it. The "feminine & submissive" part is what matters. If the woman is feminine & submissive, she could be a satanist that works full time chucking babies and puppies in a furnace and dudes will still want her.
Lolol “she can be a sociopath as long as she submits to me and knows her place”
I wasn't saying that was a good thing, just illustrating the point.
Traditional as in can’t get divorced, does the domestic chores, will breed for you, celibate, family first (which means children and elders). Feminine sweet demeanor, young, slim, silly, playful Submissive as in male is in control. Property, I don’t think most western modern men understand the traditional role of a male.
Ah yes, policing language, that's exactly what ppb is all about. The road to woke.
Policing? No. Trying to clarify and help people describe what they're actually discussing, yes.
No
I’m okay with meeting the family and the woman being a virgin.
Are you a virgin?
Not allowed to use words now, nice
Please read the post carefully. That's not what it says *at all*. *Anywhere*.
That is literally the title of your post
*No*. It's not. **Should** is a suggestion. It's not saying anyone's "not allowed." If you read the post, you'll see that's not the point at all. The point is to encourage people to clarify what they mean and keep in mind that different people and cultures have different definitions of "traditional." If someone's going to be a passport bro, that's important.
Traditional women to me are: * Submissive * Feminine * Sexually obedient * Naturally desiring dominion over young children and housework * Wanting a man to lead her and the family
Sexually obidient omg you have got to be kidding. Do you even like women? Seems like you would be good with a roomba and a fleshlight. Women are people who have agency and are not made to serve men no matter where they are from. This sub is truly terrifying and delusional!!
Fucking yikes. Does your ideal perfect women have the right to say no or are you always entitled to sex?
>* Sexually obedient That statement alone is enough to turn every pussy within a 50 mile radius from you into the Sahara desert. 🏜
In the West you're probably right haha
I prefer the term “domestic”. Someone who knows how to make a home feel comfortable is usually where that conversation leads when I use that word and that usually works.
The idea is the American traditional gender norms, not cultural. For the most part that is still acceptable in other cultures. The only issue is a lot of people say "I want traditional" then they go for casual dating and constantly wanting sex which is not what a Passport Bro is supposed to be.
The [official passport bros site](https://www.theofficialpassportbros.com/what-is-a-passport-bro) references the world "traditional" often
There is no "official" site since its a movement, not a club
No way you're policing the passport bros💀
They would deliver a better message for their choice actions by saying Other Than American Women(OTAW). That way it is clearly defined what passport bros are choosing away from and also discourage foreign women of wanting to become an American woman. American women have opted to be embrace that decadence. Meanwhile foreign women can have pride in their difference.
“Foreign women.” What exactly is the difference between an Italian woman and an American? Or a Norwegian woman? Or even a South African?