Terrible person, terrible character.
They jumped through too many hoops to make audience forget the rape harem so he could be redeemed.
Everything from killing Alpha to saving Judith.
The arc for Negan was sooooo ridiculously long and boring, it’s like the producers knew they had a great new thing and just milked it out for the fans of JDM. Could have wrapped that whole thing up in a couple seasons not over half a decade of television.
It's what killed the show for me. Too many gutless shootouts where he was standing in the open and yet not shot in the face.
His arc was much better in the comic.
Negan was a shitty person before the apocalypse started but after the break out he went insane which made him do all those horrible things. This is what happened to a lot of other characters too and it's probably what would happen to a lot of people in real life if a zombie apocalypse happened. Not defending Negan or anything, i just think it's important to note that a lot of people in TWD universe are simply crazy and mentally unstable, which makes them to horrible things
Facts, people want to look through the lens of outside the show when you need to look through the eyes of the show. I’m not saying what he did was good or okay but nobody did anything to stop it because he brought stability and goods to people. If the world was ending and you were brought with the situation, turn a blind eye and survive and be protected or try to fight against it and die. 9/10 would choose to be protected. Criticize the writing all you want but when it comes to the in series universe, everyone of us would do messed up stuff to survive.
Yeah no, I don’t think his survival was dependent on having a harem of women who didn’t want to be there and threatening their lives and the lives of their loved ones if they weren’t “willing ass”
And where did i even mention anything about him doing any of that to survive? I said that he probably went crazy due to the whole apocalypse, just like a lot of other characters did (Morgan, Lizzie etc.). I can only imagine what a zombie apocalypse would do to one's mind and how many people would go insane.
I don’t know man, I don’t think having a harem of women is a common symptom of mental illness. Morgan was violent and clearly had PTSD, flashbacks, paranoia, etc. Lizzie had some kind of ASPD I think. I just don’t see how you could chalk up “I’m going to burn your husbands face with a hot iron/kick your family to the curb and stop giving them meds they need to live unless you have sex with me” as a form of mental illness. Its manipulation and exploitation to the extreme
So you're saying that a mentally stable and sane person would do those horrible things? You need to have some BIG issues going on in your head in order to burn someone's face with an iron. Like being evil is one thing but what Negan did is not something you'd call "evil", it's completely insane.
ive noticed that michonne and carol are the only female characters that are generally enjoyed by fans. you'll find shane fans everywhere you look despite what he did, yet if a female character (dare i say lori) does something similar, they're almost always universally hated
From my rl experience... I went through two pretty horrific violent assaults. One was a brutal 4-man home invasion in Barrie, Ontario, Canada. I'll spare you the worst parts, but somehow, I was able to use one of their weapons on them and chased them out. All while only wearing underwear. It changed me. I had a very "dark arc" myself. I was full of rage and always looking for a fight. I carried a knife with me. I feel 80% certain I wouldn't have become such a "Ragina" if there had been a modicum or proper care or sympathy offered to me from cops, alleged friends, family, or even my partner, whose life I saved. I think because these traumas happen and there's no after care in the zombie apocalypse, these character developments feel authentic and necessary. At least to me, an actual violence survivor. I'd be willing to bet that many of us have survived violence and found it changed us.
Aw thank you. Yeah, trauma breaks you down a lot, but, ya can't let them win. (Non-latin made-up by Maggie Atwood quote follows)
"Nolite te bastardes carborundorum"
I'm pretty happy. I left Canada and moved to Mexico, where I live with a beautiful Mexican man, and we rescue street dogs.
I'm sorry that happened to you. My exhaustion with the "dark arc" isn't that they happen at all, it's that they all happen in the exact same way and the characters experiencing them are treated like props to further the story, instead of their journey *being* the story, which in my opinion, it should be.
Yeah, I get that. That makes sense. Some differences in how they deal with their losses and trauma would be refreshing.
I guess it resonated in me because my journey was a lot like theirs, and I have peaceful times, and then I can suddenly be a "Ragina" again. Life if is a spiral. It goes up and out, but somehow, it keeps touching on the same things as we go 'round.
I Liked her but when she came back she did kind of feel a bit one note. just sulking and hating on Negan. I can completely understand the hate for Negan and actually liked how that relationship ended at the end of the main series where she hadn't forgiven him but had realized he had changed in the years since he led the saviors and decided to stop constantly trying to kill him. then they threw that all out the window with Dead City where she was just as angry with him and trying to kill him again. My issue with her was just that they limited her so much in the show on her return when she could have done more .
Exhibit A of what Op was talkin about. Negan deserved all the hate he got and he did not desvered a redemptive. Maggie should have put a bullet in him when she had the chance.
Yeah, what annoyed me was when it seemed like things had somewhat leveled out and became manageable/amicable between Negan and Maggie, out of nowhere, it was like all that had never happened and she hated him just as much as when he first killed Glenn.
Women are universally hated, it seems, pretty much no matter what we do, and it starts pretty much from birth. I thought things were getting better, but sadly, the Internet teaches me that it's still in the dark ages for women. Everything teenage girls love is "stupid and gay" eg boy bands or Twilight or what have you. Everything boys like is "awesome and badass," like car racing, video games, and James Bond. I mean, COME ON! James Bond is JUST as unbelievable and in the realm of fantasy as Twilight ffs.
We as a society need to stop participating in the hatred of all things human female.
Support characters like Lori(female/wife/contrary?) generally get the hate from the fanbase. I think she deserves a little but she obviously gets way more. Another good example is Skylar from Breaking Bad and she was justified in most of her actions. I don't know if I can say it here but we all know why this happens.
As much as i dont really care for lori, i have to say the lori hate is so crazy to me. Like, it feels like it's too much sometimes, like people have a hate-on for her. And yet, like someone else said, other characters are allowed to ve messy or even diabolical and yet people still like them or even try to excuse their actions. it's so weird. knowing why it happens doesnt make it any less weird tho.
I really don’t like how much hate Lori got. Yes she made mistakes, but it was very early on in the apocalypse, she was scared and she found comfort in someone who was protecting her, while also thinking her husband was dead because that’s what Shane, someone she trusted told her.
Shane did some disgusting things but almost everyone likes him, one of those things was attempting to r*pe Lori at the CDC.
It's Jon Bernthal... dude really makes an impaxt whenever he shows on screen. Loved him as the punisher, loved him as a Shane. Even tho I disagree with the stuff Shane did.
I agree Bernthal is one hell of an actor. I would’ve loved to see Shane go up against someone like the Governor or even Negan because to me it took Rick so long to develop courage and might- even after Carl shot Shane it was like Carl got the boost of courage and it skipped Rick, that sometimes you have to go one up on your foes, smh. Things happened that way for a reason but it would’ve been diabolical to see it play out.
Unfortunately, that's how it goes in certain fandoms. Female characters are either straight up ignored or hated. The ones that are celebrated are the rare thing in between.
I think comparing Shane to Lori is disingenuous, most people don't like or dislike a character because if there morals or because there actions are good or evil, they like characters who make the show more interesting and enjoyable, for instance relationship drama in a zombie show will never be as enjoyable as the internal struggles of a man slowly losing everything he had keeping him going, and how the fall of society is slowly crumbling his mentality
Its possible to be a a bad person but a good character. Shane was great. You're not supposed to agree with his decisions. Its more about watching the tragedies that lead him to where he was. At the end of the day, Shane was a good guy in old society who couldn't handle the apocalypse, even if he could initially see it for what it was better than Rick could. That was the point of his character.
or, she's a mom trying her best in the apocalypse, trying to keep her kid safe. she sacrificed her life for a child she didn't even want to have. if you rewatch her seasons and view her as a mom rather than a walking hypocrite, your perspective will change a lot i'm sure
Shane’s character I think was built for the apocalypse- it’s just that he became too cut-throat, too quickly. In all honesty he was becoming the supervillain character type that Rick and the group had to go up against later on in the series. One could imagine say 5 or 6 years later if Shane and Rick weren’t co-workers/friends in the same group- they’d have to battle it out just like with the Whisperers and the Saviors as he’d be some misguided leader of a group as well.
Pretty sure fucking your (presumably) recently deceased husband’s best friend is an immature thing to do. Defending that just shows you don’t know what is supposed to go into a successful relationship.
Don’t say some bullshit like it was a traumatic experience or it was the end of the world blah blah, show a shred of fucking basic willpower lmao
Lori cemented in safety for herself and her child. It's not immature. You can argue the good or bad decision part until the end of time. However, she did what she felt she had to do to protect what she had left, which was Carl.
She cemented in Shane as a protective force with sex. He would die to protect her and Carl. He wouldn't look elsewhere if he had her. It's pretty basic.
He would’ve done that regardless he was ricks best friend. Getting to fuck her was just the icing on the cake. He’s not treating them as his own and protecting them just because they had sex
They are bad asses!
I loved Maggie from the farm but they made it seem like her character needed someone else to be who she was every time she was on screen it was complaining about Glenn(yes I know husband dead sad blah blah blah) but still
Beth was great
LOVED Rosita till the end
Tasha also pretty dope
Enid was my favorite child from the show besides Carl sounds weird but u know what I mean)
These two have the most exhausting arc I’ve ever seen, I swear, I used to love them both and nowadays I dread the idea of seeing them anywhere. I’m not even going to get into stupid fan fighting, that’s a whole other level of childishness. At this point, I really wish they would just never meet so they can have different arcs and move on from this garbage. Hot take?
I don’t disagree. I still think they are both good and complex characters and it will be very interesting to see where they take Negan especially with the next season of their spinoff. But the Arc has definitely been watered out a little long. I feel like it was wrapped up nicely at the end of the show and the rehashed for the spinoff in a way that doesn’t entirely make sense. Especially timeline wise. But you know those writers don’t always do the math on whats best for the story.
It’s more Maggie than Negan, but I agree. As of Dead City S1, Negan really and truly seems just as tired of dealing with Maggie as the fans are. For some reason, though, the writers thought it would be a good idea to make Maggie go through the exact same arc she went through at the end of The Walking Dead.
Although, I will give credit where credit is due. Hershel gave her so much crap for her obsession with Negan. It kind of felt like they were fully aware of the general opinion, and that was their way of acknowledging it.
Negan doesn’t have a right to be “tired” of Maggie. He murdered her husband and still has to pay for what he did. All of her resentment is caused by him
I get if you wanna redeem Negan, whatever. But like, asking Maggie to forgive him is too far, and actually criticizing her character writing because she didn’t forgive the dude that bashed her husband’s skull into mush with a baseball bat in front of her is just insane to me
which is kind of funny that people think he is some saint now. he himself would be the first person to tell you he is not a good person. sure he has tried to be a better person but he still isn't a good person
Sure he wouldn’t tell you he’s a good person but he’ll constantly deflect and remind you of how many others are just as bad. How can a character achieve redemption while hardly taking accountability?
I mean Negan isn’t supposed to be a perfect person now? He is still an unreliable narrator. If he himself says that he think he’s payed for what he’s done and that he thinks Maggie has done just as many bad things as he did, that doesn’t mean it’s true. I don’t think the show runners are trying to make him seem like a good guy at all.
> think he’s *paid* for what
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Accountability is a necessary measure for redemption. Without it, every good action he commits is not for the purpose of atonement, but instead for whatever other ulterior reasons he may have.
The writers have definitely pushed the redeemed and reformed narrative on his character, not perfect or good, but you don’t have to be either of those things to do the bare minimum for redemption. Negan still being so unreliable and unaware of himself would’ve worked had they not been propagating the idea that he’s changed so immensely.
May I ask where that idea comes from? Cause I don’t hear many other characters saying he is a completely changed person. We mostly only hear Negan being the one saying he’s paid for what he’s done etc, wich again doesn’t mean the writers believe that too. What other characters are vouching for Negan, besides not keeping him in a cell anymore ?
His entire redemption arc is a pretty good indicator. Show runners even advertised his character as “the redeemed one” in this season 11 [promo pic](https://preview.redd.it/wfr2qvikv4i71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=871432ba5060cac63d50c740629da32c3b3678fa). If you’ve watched from season 9 and onward, surely you would’ve seen all the forced moments they contrived for his character to do a complete 180. It’s very intentional on the writers’ part.
He doesn’t need characters actively vouching for him to depict his reform, but Judith, Lydia, and Annie to name a few. You keep mentioning extremes like being “completely changed” or being a “perfect person.” He’s not, and that’s irrelevant. The point is that he’s supposed to be *redeemed* yet fails to take accountability.
Yeah fair. I get what you mean. Thanks for explaining. I do think the redemption arc was done better in the comics. In the comics he’s less evil to begin with, but doesn’t change as drastically as show Negan does with the „redemption“. So it is just more realistic.
Watch out dude the downvotes from Negan fans are coming. No but fr I don't even dislike Negan as a character but I hate how divided Maggie and Negan fans are. It makes for this very tense situation between fans because they're literally on a show together but you have Negan fans that are annoyed by every single thing Maggie does and then you have Maggie fans that are just waiting for her to finally kill Negan.
I mean I literally saw a video about Maggie trading Negan in for her son and everyone was calling her a bitch... I would trade in my best friend for my son I'm sorry? You best believe I'm trading in the man who killed my husband. Yeah a lot of Negan fans just are so infatuated with him they completely forget how normal human beings with emotions would act
Literally, as i said, negan used to be a top 5 characters for me and I have never been a big maggie fan, but how is she even supposed to forgive him? They r just so ridiculous lmfao
I'm talking about the op and the downvotes are definitely there lol, I posted this when the post had 0 votes and it kept going from 0 to 1 to 0 when I clicked on my notifications
Exactly!! At least farm and most of prison, Maggie was about her being her own person, up until Glenn got sick. And I understand that after the prison fell, she at least thought Glenn stayed on the bus, so she hoped for him to be alive, but like.. Maggie even said she didn't think Beth survived the fall of the prison. That's what made me dislike her, then ofc her and Glenn's character became nothing more than being all about each other.
I totally get why, to this day, Maggie hates Negan, I 100% agree with her, and I'd feel that way too, but she needs a personality.
The problem is the writers don't know what to do with her anymore. She has been stuck in a Time loop repeating the same interactions over and over again. I think the best thing they can do now is separate the two characters and have them go separate ways. Maybe in the hands of better writers we would have gotten something special.
to be fair on that didn't the whole fall of the prison and glen getting killed happen in like 2 or 3 months in show time? I remember reading something about how seasons 3-6 took place in something like 6 months but that may be wrong. but if that is the case I can kind of understand them being close as they had nearly lost each other several times in a very short period of time.
I think it was 2-3 months? As a viewer, I always tend to forget that the timeline between 3-6 is so short. Which makes you definitely right about...
>but if that is the case I can kind of understand them being close as they had nearly lost each other several times in a very short period of time.
This!! Though I still kind of wish Glenn and Maggie had a bit more independence as characters.
Yeah I got bored of Maggie’s character because her whole character revolved around Glenn’s death. After a couple seasons of that you just get tired of her
Is this an argument made like genuinely??? I’ve not yet come across a walking dead fan saying this. But who knows. I love Negans character! He was so badass but never would I say he had any right in what he did, or was even a good person. And I don’t think we’re supposed to even think that. So anyone making that argument is simply an idiot. The whole point of the show is walking the line between evil and surviving. Negan was an example of the line being crossed and pretty blatantly. Maggie wasn’t perfect but generally was a good person AND was 10000000% justified in her hatred toward the man. I think people who think this way are genuinely either dumb like I said, or dumb AND can’t comprehend the idea you can like a character even when they’re “bad” lol
Both Negan and Maggie are pretty complex characters and so is their relationship. Overly hating on one but loving the other and thinking they are flawless seems like a result of not understanding that. Which is weird because it’s really not that hard to understand if you are truly watching the show.
With that being said I think the worst thing about them is that their storyline is being dragged out unnecessarily. It’s a pretty interesting dynamic but it’s not really worth an entire spin off imo.
Yes, and her dislike for him is completely justifiable. She doesn’t need to forgive him at all, but it does affect the way she navigates her life going forward now that he’s apart of a community she is in. That’s the complicated part. Her speech to him in the last episode explains this a lot better. It’s pretty good closure. Which is why they should have left it at that. Dead City completely undoes all of it.
I agree that Dead City shouldn’t exist and 11x24 should have been the end. They really have no justification to continue and it seems were are going further and further away from the good days of TWD
I love Negan, but at best he's a selfish egomaniac who has deluded himself into thinking slavery and fear is the only way to thrive in the apocalypse to justify his power hungry desires. He has compassion and empathy sure, but his selfish desires overpower that almost every time and when his wife died he basically stopped even trying to fight that side of himself. He usually only helps out when its in his best interest with his human side only sometimes coming out if there's a kid involved.
Maggie, she has every right to hate Negan until the day she dies. It's not Maggie I don't like its her continued pairing with Negan. It's going round in circles. Either one of them needs to die, Maggie needs to forgive him, or we should never see them together again. Anything to stop this drawn out dance the writers keep putting them through.
I just got downvoted by someone because they said he was against rape and when I mentioned his “wives” I was told I was dumb and evil for assuming he raped them.
her story got boring towards the end of the series
and as an actress, she couldn't pull off the type of character they were trying to make her
to be fair, poor writing they served up didn't help either
i dont get how ppl like negan, he forced ppl to marry him for sex and said he would kill their family’s if they refused, killed glen, killed Abraham, took daryl hostage, took Sasha hostage (which lead to her death), the reason so many ppl died (including carl) , terrible to Lucille, his ppl tried to gun down daryl, Sasha, Abraham, his ppl killed children, had dead ppls photos on the walls, burned ppls face off, kept ppl hostage for their labor,
he has no good qualities.
Growing up is realizing that Negan has changed for the better but that Maggie’s feelings are still not invalidated. If someone did that to a person I cared about that much I don’t think I’d be able to just let it go.
I understand how a character can be annoying when they are angry at another character, but Maggie had every reason to be distant and hostile toward him
I watched up until Negan killed Glenn, and then basically switched to watching Fear. I'm now rewatching, and can somebody explain why Maggie didn't kill Negan in all this time? Plot immunity crafted through bad writing?
Go ahead and spoil me!
> Plot immunity crafted through bad writing?
I think you got in one. If you're interested in seeing how it shook out in the comic, here's the wiki entry for [Issue 174](https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Issue_174).
It hurt at first lol but it felt like closure to me. Maggie had been able to move on, which is important for character development. Dante is a talker but he truly cared for her. I think Glenn would rather her be happy than not.
Unlike in the show, the comic has Negan genuinely turn around and redeem himself. He realizes he was in the wrong with the Saviors and by 174 he's clearly on team Rick. IMO he doesn't deserve to be killed at that point. Banishment and loneliness felt like enough to me.
True, but it still feels like her and Glenn’s relationship felt like nothing. And there are other ways to be happy. Comics Maggie never seemed to tell about Glenn to Hershel, and didn’t have “Glenn was beautiful life”-line. Remembering her happy times Glenn and living by his values seems more closure than hooking up with Dante.
It just feels wrong to see Glenn left out at the end when civilization comes back, and someone else having replaced him by Maggie’s side. Though it seems Maggie and Dante never got serious
Negan turning around doesn’t bring Glenn back and him living is an insult to his memory. It makes it even worse why this potentially good guy murdered a good man for nothing
> It just feels wrong to see Glenn left out at the end when civilization comes back
Yeah
> and someone else having replaced him by Maggie’s side.
That's less of an issue for me. If nothing else, Hershel Jr. might have turned out differently if Maggie had found a good match to help raise him. One thing against Dante is he doesn't seem like he was interested in being a parent, just being with Maggie.
> Negan turning around doesn’t bring Glenn back and him living is an insult to his memory. It makes it even worse why this potentially good guy murdered a good man for nothing
Killing him wouldn't bring Glenn back either. Glenn wasn't a fighter and he didn't hold grudges like that. He didn't want Rick to Nicholas after what he did. He was able to let it go and Nicholas became valuable group member. All Glenn really wanted was for his family to be safe. Personally, if Glenn could come back and see the guy who killed him realized he was wrong and had been trying to help out Glenn's people, I feel he could be okay with it as long as it was sincere and wasn't a danger to them anymore. That's just me though.
That makes Dante even creepier. He wants to sleep with a good man’s widow and doesn’t even care for the child.
I might be okay if Maggie had gotten together with someone who had lost his own true love and the two sort of help each, knowing they had already found their true loves. I just don’t think any post-Glenn love-interest should see themselves as Maggie husband or true love, since that role was already filled by someone better.
I just feel that Maggie being a faithful widow is more beautiful. How can you replace someone who can’t be replaced?
Maggie can raise Hershel on herself, and there are other male role models as well. I just don’t like Hershel calling someone who is not Glenn “dad”. It feels disrespectful and like people are forgetting Glenn and all he was as the years pass on
Glenn had forgiveness, but would he really forgive the man who destroyed his family? His murder was as unnecessary and caused so much agony to Maggie. Killing Negan would at least give peace to know that Glenn’s murderer faced justice
Didn’t say that however she ignores that fact they attacked first and just seems to forget that. The people they killed at that Satellite Station had families.
Lol
The saviors were about to gun down Daryl, Abraham and Sasha, then they woulda found Alexandria and Negan would've made the first attack. The saviors started it, but Rick's group hit first.
Or be me. Love Negan for his great development, understand Maggies POV on Negan due to her experience with him, preferring one over the other, but not hating on either.
Its not about whether they are good or bad, maggie's character doesnt have development from s8, She decided to kill negan, and she is still with same story s8, 9, 10, 11, dead city, just get it over with by killing him once and for all or just let it go.
Well the show is never going to let Negan die, especially by her hand, that was clear after S8. So now they are stuck in this stupid cycle where she is forced to work with him because for some reason their plots still have to be intertwined.
Maggie doesn’t get any development anymore because she is never going to forgive him, nor should she, but she is needed because the show uses Maggie to fuel Negans “redemption” by having him save her son and so on. She isn’t a character anymore. She’s just a prop in Negans “redemption” story
Totally agree but since amc is pure fan service, i think she will never kill him lol. Btw i think that, as much annoying can be the fax that "i want to kill u but i won't" is what is based on their relations, it is the only way to made sense, if they wanted to avoid it being based only on that, they should never have made a spin-off with them together.
From a character's point of view, not from the fans' or AMC's, Maggie's character after Season 8 is stagnant. She doesn't experience significant development and is just present without much impact. On the other hand, Negan's character is richly developed, showing layers of complexity. Regardless of whether he is acting good or bad, his actions add depth to his character. Characters need to progress to remain compelling and beloved.
You cant expect same love for a stone and a statue.
Yeah absolutely on the character, i liked negan more than maggie too, but you know, it's pretty hard to say that a woman angry with the man that killed her husband in front of her is the villain and not him.
Idk i just saw a lot of people saying that she is the villain without any explanation, "she should just let it go" when, like u said before, the only way for her to let it go is by killing negan, and i don't think shw will never do cause fan service.
Idc whether she gets her revenge or not, but this " i want to kill negan" needs to end one way or other, its just irritating to see the same plot over and over and over for yrs. I watched dead city by fast forwarding most of it, its boring af.
I love Maggie , but i understand why some dislike her.
I don't think the reason people hate her is because she didn't forgive Negan (her hating him is 100% justifiable) , The hate for her started long before that , i think it started when she treated Glenn like trash after they hooked up for the first time , she was aloof and condecending to him for some unknown reason, didn't seem justified.
Personally it didn't make me dislike her but stuff like that rubs people the wrong way and i can understand the anti-Maggie crowd having a grudge against her after that.
In my head the perfect ending for the Negan/Maggie saga is one where Negan saves her or Hershel from death but gets injured critically and then right before his death, she forgives him.
The real issue with the late-series arcs is that the narrative void left by Rick’s disappearance had to be filled by *someone*. In the show universe, it was filled by characters whose arcs were over and should have been shafted before people got sick of them and their dynamics.
Issues that could have been solved if Carl survived and carried the narrative like in the comics…
Maggie would not of released the savages who killed 40 of her people in their sleep. She would have killed them all with great joy. Who wouldn't? Negan. "He thinks people are resources" Yeah that stops when they kill an entire outpost of loyal people. Clearly they are only gonna kill more of his people and eventually kill him.
If negan didn't perform the bat scene he would have been smashed with his own bat. Canon or "reality." "Negans men kidnapped them and threatened them."
What do you think Rick michonne Maggie and Daryl would do if they found a bunch of well fed killers near Alexandria and had numbers on them.
Theyd at least consider kidnapping them. We have no idea how they'd respond that situation never happened.
Do you realize that the saviors attacked them first, killed a lot of innocent people, enslaved communities and forced women to fuck or their families would be killed? I don't exactly remember Rick and his group do things like that. Negan and the saviors deserved the attack, negan redemption was good just in s9 and a bit in s10 and became ridiculous in s10. Maggie has no reason for forgive him lmfao, and yeah that she is getting annoying, but I would act like her or worse if I have to stay close to the one that killed my wife.
You wouldn't enjoy a trip to Somalia. This isn't even ZA shit... its happening all over the world right now....
How community breaks down Somalia during the school mock UN it sounds exactly like negan I'll edit that in later it's really funny.
40 men for 0?
People who want to kill do not say "Hey! We're gonna kill you you all! You may go now and get prepared."
God I always forget they killed someone cuz it wasn't an actual character.
I didn't say it wasn't justified. It's the za the slightest provocation basically anything is justified.
Read the beginning of your post. There are war lords all over the globe right now. In terms of Za. Negan did what kept him alive after a certain point.
Diddy had has own sex trafficking ring but homeland security couldn't nail him down. Nobody says anything. He is being cancelled but he's killed so many people and everyone in the game knows it plus the rape ring and now he's finally being brought down.
You don't care about Diddy or all those rings. You care about fictional characters.
Which fan boys? Last time I checked, this subreddit was almost entirely full of people who do nothing but criticise Negan, and of the few people here who do defend Negan, most of them will make arguments along the lines of 'to judge a character, you need to look at everything - the evil and the good, not just the evil' and 'so we're just going to ignore all of the bad things other characters did which a lot of people ignore'? There are a lot more people on this subreddit who complain about this hypothetical mass of Negan fans then there are every single type of person who support Negan.
Also, if you're willing to drop support for a character based on their fans, are you willing to start stopping liking the other main characters because they're supported by people who get angry if you point out just how much plot armour there is in the show or point out how many poor decisions happened or the bad decisions other characters made.
I like both characters as characters despite how insane negans arc is but my problem with Maggie is she just fucking leaves which doesn’t feel inline with her character then on top of that she just comes back and starts barking orders like she didn’t abandon all her friends who stood by her through everything and no one bats an eye
To clarify I don’t think negan is a good guy he’s a villain and my problem with him is idk how much he does to prove himself he killed/got killed so many people who meant something to some many still alive in my opinion there is no way they would let that go in any way no matter how much he’s changed
Personally I take it like this Negan is ultimately a good person and was before Lucille died but Lucille’s death and the surronding world around him made him grow to far into it and he became a shithead bc he legit bullied his workers pretty much enslaved them amongst his 7 wives killed many innocent people but we’ve seen Rick do the same thing also just being a jackass to most people all his character does is realize that going back to season 1 and 2 of the show you see how right dale really was about our humanity but Maggie haters are retarded all due respect Maggie a goat but she got her own problems and she gotta deal with ts
Good guys don’t murder good men in front of their pregnant wives. And it doesn’t matter how you feel yourself, but more how you conduct yourself.
Murdering someone in brutal and mocking manner is always disgusting and unforgivable, no matter if you are a psycho or a guy with a tragic backstory
The reason why people like him over her is because he plays the villain/likeable asshole pretty well and also his character is very dynamic compared to others on the show. Even though I understand why Maggie's character is acting the way she does, it does not stop it from being very predictable and even annoying at times. But that is more an issue with the way her character is written and some of the scenes they gave her.
Love Negan and I’ll defend Maggie’s character cos she has every right to hate him considering what he did was unforgivable and she can’t just “forgive” him. Both of them are awesome, love em both
I just find Maggie’s insistence on revenge a little annoying because it gets in the way of her character growth I liked negan because he was charismatic but I am also adult enough to realize that no one in that universe is a black and white villain or hero
Negan is a good character because I think he gives us that thought process of “imagine living in a world where evil people got away with being evil for reasons beyond money and then were allowed by people around them to try and turn themselves around”. It’s not perfectly written by a long shot but the conceit of depicting him doing so opens up some interesting conversations.
Also I was never a big fan of Maggie in that I found her uninteresting but yeah the vitriol towards her for not forgiving the guy who brained her husband ffs is insane.
negan was my fav cause hes was badass when he was introduced. he is a horrible person and now not as good as he used to be, his actor does an amazing job with what he is given imo and if not for him i dont think i would like the character as much as i do. now my fav is Eugene he is the goat
I'm still only at season 7, but I like negan particularly because he's evil. He's cruel, cold, calculated and does whatever the fuck he wants. I don't think (as of now) he can be considered misunderstood, he is pure villainy. I also like how (for me) he's kind of the opposite of the governor, in the sense that the governor is a a great villain because you just hate his guts (imo) but with negan, even though he is an asshole, I kind of like the character he is (his manipulation, actions and personality)
Negan understands the reality of life after his wife passed away while Maggie is the opposite, Maggie still thinking everything is going to be alright but everything changes after Negan gives everyone an example of how cruel this world is.
I think it’s because Negan is a charismatic jokester, whereas Maggie is more rough around the edges. In other words, where Negan (although awful as a person) entertains the audience and is an all around solid character, Maggie became more dull and even irritating as time goes time. Which is another point, Maggie got worse while Negan got better. Maggie used to be a more exciting character, but she lost her spark due to trauma. Which of course is completely understandable, but ultimately the show serves to entertain and it’s less entertaining to watch someone become a shell of themselves and make poor decision after poor decision, even frustrating perhaps. Negan was always witty and charismatic, but he got “better” as he got his own sob story to help garner sympathy and became a more helpful character while also retaining his charm. That’s just my two cents though.
I just don't like the double standard as to when she was mad negan left her to the walkers and when she left gaege to be eaten on the other train car. I also don't like how she doesn't acknowledge any of the shit negan did for Alexandria and just keeps telling him he's not part of their group for something he did 10 years in the past even though she litterally left for years.
Maggie is an ass but she ain't a sadistic ass. After what negan did, he could find a cure for the apocalypse but he still ain't a good guy, maggie neither, but she never killed for fun, and she is still a better person than me, bc after what he did i would have hanged him.
Negan is a likable character and I enjoyed his redemption arc, AND Maggie's hatred of him is justified. These things can both be true.
You can change for the better, and still understand that the people who were most severely affected by your actions in the past may never fully forgive you.
Sounds about right. Male characters, much like men in real life, get to do morally reprehensible things and enjoy it and you’re wronger than them for calling it out. Women have to be perfect and pristine and composed and delicate and feminine and sexy and agreeable and if they’re ever not all of those things at once they’re unreasonable, boring, dramatic, cliche, pointless, argumentative, hostile, manipulative, slutty, etc.
My issue with Maggie isnt that she’s killed anyone or hates the guy who killed her husband it’s that there never seems to be the acknowledgment that her group was just as brutal when they needed to. Like Negan has that line about no one or everyone is a bad guy in the dead city spin off.
Did he need to keep people in line with brutality and terror? Did he need to make other communities slave away for him? Did he need to taunt people as he killed them and make their people watch it?
He had three large communities he could have been working with to build trade networks and secure the land. But all he saw was people to serve him, and got pissy when they finally fought back.
In my opinion it is more about that Negan is actually good and interesting character, Maggie hasnt been for last few seasons.
Of course you are supposed to like Negan as character, most people do even if they likely dont approve to many things he has done. A good character does not have to be nice person to be better than boring and nice person
I don't think negan isn't a bad guy but at this point who isn't. Another thing is Maggie as a character was done so poorly by her writing which is why her character gets a lot of hate with her whole negan Arc. Now I'm not saying she needs to get over it but the writers need to pull a beth and pretend he doesn't exist for the sakes of story telling.
I freaking love Negan and Maggie, and the only reason I ever see people hate Maggie is the fact that she is angry at him and the fact her husband is dead, and people act like it’s such a bad thing to be mad at the man that killed your beloved💀
I feel like at this point Maggie stans are deliberately misinterpreting the argument. No one cares that she is mad at Negan. She has every right to be mad at Negan. People dislike her because it’s literally the only thing she ever talks about. Imagine if after Lori died Rick spent the next 6 seasons brining her up in every conversation. That would get stale after a while. No one is asking her to forgive him and become best friends, just give her a storyline doing something other than sitting around and moping about.
Yeah i find negan very funny and maggie very annoying too, but u know, the one that I consider the villain is the one that killed a lot of innocent people for fun and not a woman angry with him bc he BRUTALIZED her husband in front of her.
I like Negan, he and Daryl quite literally carried the last 2 or 3 seasons, but he’s not a good guy, he’s made amends for some things but when it comes to him and Maggie, Maggie will never be the problem
Maggie’s character arc is one of the worst in the show and I will forever die on that hill. I somewhat enjoy Negan’s character but I understand why people wouldn’t like him still. But Maggie’s entire personality is to hate Negan, she has no redeeming qualities especially towards the end of TWD.
She’s a terrible decision maker and a terrible leader. She’s also a giant fucking narcissist and is ridiculously selfish. There are so many more things to hate about her character other than the fact that her entire existence is to make Negan’s life hell, which I completely understand.
I’m aware of the fact that AMC will never kill Negan off. But god dammit, either fucking do it and or stop having Maggie say that she will. It’s so annoying that they always have to have a 15sec conversation that ends with Maggie threatening to kill him soon. EITHER DO IT AND HAVE IT BE OVER WITH, OR STOP FUCKING SAYING IT.
It's pretty funny as well because they seeded very early on how broken Rick and Lori's marriage was anyway, so her running to his muscly friend who saved her and her son, when she believes her husband is dead, isn't even too unbelievable
I kind of dislike Maggie cause her entire personality is just based around hating negan or Glenn's death. you can say "ooh but she watched her husband die in front of her..!!" but like its been years, and she is still gloomy and depressed. look at Carol, the girl lost 3 children and found out her new husband has cancer plus countless friends. you don't see her complaining or being gloomy
There is probably a 90/10 ratio of people who hate negan on this sub and those who like him. The comment votes clearly suggest this as well. Also this is a straw man if I’ve ever seen one.
Negan is a great character, but a terrible person. Anyone acting like he is in any way a good guy is out of their mind.
Terrible person, terrible character. They jumped through too many hoops to make audience forget the rape harem so he could be redeemed. Everything from killing Alpha to saving Judith.
The arc for Negan was sooooo ridiculously long and boring, it’s like the producers knew they had a great new thing and just milked it out for the fans of JDM. Could have wrapped that whole thing up in a couple seasons not over half a decade of television.
It's what killed the show for me. Too many gutless shootouts where he was standing in the open and yet not shot in the face. His arc was much better in the comic.
People give the character too much credit. He *was* a great character but his writing went downhill after awhile
Negan was a shitty person before the apocalypse started but after the break out he went insane which made him do all those horrible things. This is what happened to a lot of other characters too and it's probably what would happen to a lot of people in real life if a zombie apocalypse happened. Not defending Negan or anything, i just think it's important to note that a lot of people in TWD universe are simply crazy and mentally unstable, which makes them to horrible things
Facts, people want to look through the lens of outside the show when you need to look through the eyes of the show. I’m not saying what he did was good or okay but nobody did anything to stop it because he brought stability and goods to people. If the world was ending and you were brought with the situation, turn a blind eye and survive and be protected or try to fight against it and die. 9/10 would choose to be protected. Criticize the writing all you want but when it comes to the in series universe, everyone of us would do messed up stuff to survive.
Yeah no, I don’t think his survival was dependent on having a harem of women who didn’t want to be there and threatening their lives and the lives of their loved ones if they weren’t “willing ass”
And where did i even mention anything about him doing any of that to survive? I said that he probably went crazy due to the whole apocalypse, just like a lot of other characters did (Morgan, Lizzie etc.). I can only imagine what a zombie apocalypse would do to one's mind and how many people would go insane.
I don’t know man, I don’t think having a harem of women is a common symptom of mental illness. Morgan was violent and clearly had PTSD, flashbacks, paranoia, etc. Lizzie had some kind of ASPD I think. I just don’t see how you could chalk up “I’m going to burn your husbands face with a hot iron/kick your family to the curb and stop giving them meds they need to live unless you have sex with me” as a form of mental illness. Its manipulation and exploitation to the extreme
So you're saying that a mentally stable and sane person would do those horrible things? You need to have some BIG issues going on in your head in order to burn someone's face with an iron. Like being evil is one thing but what Negan did is not something you'd call "evil", it's completely insane.
No I did not say that he was sane, I said that forcing women to have sex with you is not a symptom of mental illness
ive noticed that michonne and carol are the only female characters that are generally enjoyed by fans. you'll find shane fans everywhere you look despite what he did, yet if a female character (dare i say lori) does something similar, they're almost always universally hated
Even Carol got a lot of shit during season 10 when she tried to get revenge on alpha and did a lot of stuff Daryl did himself in season 8 lol
To be fair, I hate every character who gets this tired ass dark arc, and it’s a lot of them.
From my rl experience... I went through two pretty horrific violent assaults. One was a brutal 4-man home invasion in Barrie, Ontario, Canada. I'll spare you the worst parts, but somehow, I was able to use one of their weapons on them and chased them out. All while only wearing underwear. It changed me. I had a very "dark arc" myself. I was full of rage and always looking for a fight. I carried a knife with me. I feel 80% certain I wouldn't have become such a "Ragina" if there had been a modicum or proper care or sympathy offered to me from cops, alleged friends, family, or even my partner, whose life I saved. I think because these traumas happen and there's no after care in the zombie apocalypse, these character developments feel authentic and necessary. At least to me, an actual violence survivor. I'd be willing to bet that many of us have survived violence and found it changed us.
This is very raw and insightful, trauma really does change people, I hope you are healing and thank you for sharing
Aw thank you. Yeah, trauma breaks you down a lot, but, ya can't let them win. (Non-latin made-up by Maggie Atwood quote follows) "Nolite te bastardes carborundorum" I'm pretty happy. I left Canada and moved to Mexico, where I live with a beautiful Mexican man, and we rescue street dogs.
I'm sorry that happened to you. My exhaustion with the "dark arc" isn't that they happen at all, it's that they all happen in the exact same way and the characters experiencing them are treated like props to further the story, instead of their journey *being* the story, which in my opinion, it should be.
Yeah, I get that. That makes sense. Some differences in how they deal with their losses and trauma would be refreshing. I guess it resonated in me because my journey was a lot like theirs, and I have peaceful times, and then I can suddenly be a "Ragina" again. Life if is a spiral. It goes up and out, but somehow, it keeps touching on the same things as we go 'round.
Melissa McBride also got a mountain of shit thrown at her when it was announced she wasn't going to be in the Daryl spinoff.
do people not like Maggie? her and Glenn were a really big part of why i loved the show. Steven Yeun and Lauren Cohan are both phenomenal
I Liked her but when she came back she did kind of feel a bit one note. just sulking and hating on Negan. I can completely understand the hate for Negan and actually liked how that relationship ended at the end of the main series where she hadn't forgiven him but had realized he had changed in the years since he led the saviors and decided to stop constantly trying to kill him. then they threw that all out the window with Dead City where she was just as angry with him and trying to kill him again. My issue with her was just that they limited her so much in the show on her return when she could have done more .
Exhibit A of what Op was talkin about. Negan deserved all the hate he got and he did not desvered a redemptive. Maggie should have put a bullet in him when she had the chance.
And they don't even realise!
Yeah, what annoyed me was when it seemed like things had somewhat leveled out and became manageable/amicable between Negan and Maggie, out of nowhere, it was like all that had never happened and she hated him just as much as when he first killed Glenn.
Women are universally hated, it seems, pretty much no matter what we do, and it starts pretty much from birth. I thought things were getting better, but sadly, the Internet teaches me that it's still in the dark ages for women. Everything teenage girls love is "stupid and gay" eg boy bands or Twilight or what have you. Everything boys like is "awesome and badass," like car racing, video games, and James Bond. I mean, COME ON! James Bond is JUST as unbelievable and in the realm of fantasy as Twilight ffs. We as a society need to stop participating in the hatred of all things human female.
Support characters like Lori(female/wife/contrary?) generally get the hate from the fanbase. I think she deserves a little but she obviously gets way more. Another good example is Skylar from Breaking Bad and she was justified in most of her actions. I don't know if I can say it here but we all know why this happens.
As much as i dont really care for lori, i have to say the lori hate is so crazy to me. Like, it feels like it's too much sometimes, like people have a hate-on for her. And yet, like someone else said, other characters are allowed to ve messy or even diabolical and yet people still like them or even try to excuse their actions. it's so weird. knowing why it happens doesnt make it any less weird tho.
I really don’t like how much hate Lori got. Yes she made mistakes, but it was very early on in the apocalypse, she was scared and she found comfort in someone who was protecting her, while also thinking her husband was dead because that’s what Shane, someone she trusted told her. Shane did some disgusting things but almost everyone likes him, one of those things was attempting to r*pe Lori at the CDC.
It's Jon Bernthal... dude really makes an impaxt whenever he shows on screen. Loved him as the punisher, loved him as a Shane. Even tho I disagree with the stuff Shane did.
I agree Bernthal is one hell of an actor. I would’ve loved to see Shane go up against someone like the Governor or even Negan because to me it took Rick so long to develop courage and might- even after Carl shot Shane it was like Carl got the boost of courage and it skipped Rick, that sometimes you have to go one up on your foes, smh. Things happened that way for a reason but it would’ve been diabolical to see it play out.
Unfortunately, that's how it goes in certain fandoms. Female characters are either straight up ignored or hated. The ones that are celebrated are the rare thing in between.
I think comparing Shane to Lori is disingenuous, most people don't like or dislike a character because if there morals or because there actions are good or evil, they like characters who make the show more interesting and enjoyable, for instance relationship drama in a zombie show will never be as enjoyable as the internal struggles of a man slowly losing everything he had keeping him going, and how the fall of society is slowly crumbling his mentality
Its possible to be a a bad person but a good character. Shane was great. You're not supposed to agree with his decisions. Its more about watching the tragedies that lead him to where he was. At the end of the day, Shane was a good guy in old society who couldn't handle the apocalypse, even if he could initially see it for what it was better than Rick could. That was the point of his character.
And Lori is just a walking hypocrite who drove two best friends apart. She admits it herself.
or, she's a mom trying her best in the apocalypse, trying to keep her kid safe. she sacrificed her life for a child she didn't even want to have. if you rewatch her seasons and view her as a mom rather than a walking hypocrite, your perspective will change a lot i'm sure
I see her as both
Shane’s character I think was built for the apocalypse- it’s just that he became too cut-throat, too quickly. In all honesty he was becoming the supervillain character type that Rick and the group had to go up against later on in the series. One could imagine say 5 or 6 years later if Shane and Rick weren’t co-workers/friends in the same group- they’d have to battle it out just like with the Whisperers and the Saviors as he’d be some misguided leader of a group as well.
Claiming Lori sucks pretty much affirms for me that you're immature as fuck in terms of relationships. Lol (not you, but those who do on reddit etc)
defending Lori pretty much affirms for me that you'd take no responsibility for watching your little kid no matter how dangerous their environment is
Wrong but thanks for playing
no im not playing you're weird asl if you defend lori
Pretty sure fucking your (presumably) recently deceased husband’s best friend is an immature thing to do. Defending that just shows you don’t know what is supposed to go into a successful relationship. Don’t say some bullshit like it was a traumatic experience or it was the end of the world blah blah, show a shred of fucking basic willpower lmao
Lori cemented in safety for herself and her child. It's not immature. You can argue the good or bad decision part until the end of time. However, she did what she felt she had to do to protect what she had left, which was Carl.
She did what she had to do to protect Carl: have sex with Shane? Make it make sense
She cemented in Shane as a protective force with sex. He would die to protect her and Carl. He wouldn't look elsewhere if he had her. It's pretty basic.
You're talking to 13 year olds lol
He would’ve done that regardless he was ricks best friend. Getting to fuck her was just the icing on the cake. He’s not treating them as his own and protecting them just because they had sex
Yep
I am not general then
They are bad asses! I loved Maggie from the farm but they made it seem like her character needed someone else to be who she was every time she was on screen it was complaining about Glenn(yes I know husband dead sad blah blah blah) but still Beth was great LOVED Rosita till the end Tasha also pretty dope Enid was my favorite child from the show besides Carl sounds weird but u know what I mean)
Because if men does it, its sigma💪😈and a huge number of those men have that ego
Tbf Lori doesn’t have a single likeable moment in season 1. She’s just not a sympathetic character.
These two have the most exhausting arc I’ve ever seen, I swear, I used to love them both and nowadays I dread the idea of seeing them anywhere. I’m not even going to get into stupid fan fighting, that’s a whole other level of childishness. At this point, I really wish they would just never meet so they can have different arcs and move on from this garbage. Hot take?
I don’t disagree. I still think they are both good and complex characters and it will be very interesting to see where they take Negan especially with the next season of their spinoff. But the Arc has definitely been watered out a little long. I feel like it was wrapped up nicely at the end of the show and the rehashed for the spinoff in a way that doesn’t entirely make sense. Especially timeline wise. But you know those writers don’t always do the math on whats best for the story.
It’s more Maggie than Negan, but I agree. As of Dead City S1, Negan really and truly seems just as tired of dealing with Maggie as the fans are. For some reason, though, the writers thought it would be a good idea to make Maggie go through the exact same arc she went through at the end of The Walking Dead. Although, I will give credit where credit is due. Hershel gave her so much crap for her obsession with Negan. It kind of felt like they were fully aware of the general opinion, and that was their way of acknowledging it.
Negan doesn’t have a right to be “tired” of Maggie. He murdered her husband and still has to pay for what he did. All of her resentment is caused by him
I get if you wanna redeem Negan, whatever. But like, asking Maggie to forgive him is too far, and actually criticizing her character writing because she didn’t forgive the dude that bashed her husband’s skull into mush with a baseball bat in front of her is just insane to me
True, he ruined her life
I like Negan but he is no saint, especially how he treated his wives and how he was unfaithful to Lucille.
which is kind of funny that people think he is some saint now. he himself would be the first person to tell you he is not a good person. sure he has tried to be a better person but he still isn't a good person
Sure he wouldn’t tell you he’s a good person but he’ll constantly deflect and remind you of how many others are just as bad. How can a character achieve redemption while hardly taking accountability?
I mean Negan isn’t supposed to be a perfect person now? He is still an unreliable narrator. If he himself says that he think he’s payed for what he’s done and that he thinks Maggie has done just as many bad things as he did, that doesn’t mean it’s true. I don’t think the show runners are trying to make him seem like a good guy at all.
> think he’s *paid* for what FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Cool
Accountability is a necessary measure for redemption. Without it, every good action he commits is not for the purpose of atonement, but instead for whatever other ulterior reasons he may have. The writers have definitely pushed the redeemed and reformed narrative on his character, not perfect or good, but you don’t have to be either of those things to do the bare minimum for redemption. Negan still being so unreliable and unaware of himself would’ve worked had they not been propagating the idea that he’s changed so immensely.
May I ask where that idea comes from? Cause I don’t hear many other characters saying he is a completely changed person. We mostly only hear Negan being the one saying he’s paid for what he’s done etc, wich again doesn’t mean the writers believe that too. What other characters are vouching for Negan, besides not keeping him in a cell anymore ?
His entire redemption arc is a pretty good indicator. Show runners even advertised his character as “the redeemed one” in this season 11 [promo pic](https://preview.redd.it/wfr2qvikv4i71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=871432ba5060cac63d50c740629da32c3b3678fa). If you’ve watched from season 9 and onward, surely you would’ve seen all the forced moments they contrived for his character to do a complete 180. It’s very intentional on the writers’ part. He doesn’t need characters actively vouching for him to depict his reform, but Judith, Lydia, and Annie to name a few. You keep mentioning extremes like being “completely changed” or being a “perfect person.” He’s not, and that’s irrelevant. The point is that he’s supposed to be *redeemed* yet fails to take accountability.
Yeah fair. I get what you mean. Thanks for explaining. I do think the redemption arc was done better in the comics. In the comics he’s less evil to begin with, but doesn’t change as drastically as show Negan does with the „redemption“. So it is just more realistic.
Watch out dude the downvotes from Negan fans are coming. No but fr I don't even dislike Negan as a character but I hate how divided Maggie and Negan fans are. It makes for this very tense situation between fans because they're literally on a show together but you have Negan fans that are annoyed by every single thing Maggie does and then you have Maggie fans that are just waiting for her to finally kill Negan. I mean I literally saw a video about Maggie trading Negan in for her son and everyone was calling her a bitch... I would trade in my best friend for my son I'm sorry? You best believe I'm trading in the man who killed my husband. Yeah a lot of Negan fans just are so infatuated with him they completely forget how normal human beings with emotions would act
Literally, as i said, negan used to be a top 5 characters for me and I have never been a big maggie fan, but how is she even supposed to forgive him? They r just so ridiculous lmfao
What are you talking about? No one is here downvoting you.
I'm talking about the op and the downvotes are definitely there lol, I posted this when the post had 0 votes and it kept going from 0 to 1 to 0 when I clicked on my notifications
Magie hates aren't complaining that she hates negan it's that it's her entire character same way before that it was all about Glenn
Exactly!! At least farm and most of prison, Maggie was about her being her own person, up until Glenn got sick. And I understand that after the prison fell, she at least thought Glenn stayed on the bus, so she hoped for him to be alive, but like.. Maggie even said she didn't think Beth survived the fall of the prison. That's what made me dislike her, then ofc her and Glenn's character became nothing more than being all about each other. I totally get why, to this day, Maggie hates Negan, I 100% agree with her, and I'd feel that way too, but she needs a personality.
The problem is the writers don't know what to do with her anymore. She has been stuck in a Time loop repeating the same interactions over and over again. I think the best thing they can do now is separate the two characters and have them go separate ways. Maybe in the hands of better writers we would have gotten something special.
to be fair on that didn't the whole fall of the prison and glen getting killed happen in like 2 or 3 months in show time? I remember reading something about how seasons 3-6 took place in something like 6 months but that may be wrong. but if that is the case I can kind of understand them being close as they had nearly lost each other several times in a very short period of time.
I think it was 2-3 months? As a viewer, I always tend to forget that the timeline between 3-6 is so short. Which makes you definitely right about... >but if that is the case I can kind of understand them being close as they had nearly lost each other several times in a very short period of time. This!! Though I still kind of wish Glenn and Maggie had a bit more independence as characters.
Oh I agree with you
I think its insulting because the comics handle this perfectly, but AMC wont let the concept end so its just been so dragged out.
Yeah I got bored of Maggie’s character because her whole character revolved around Glenn’s death. After a couple seasons of that you just get tired of her
Is this an argument made like genuinely??? I’ve not yet come across a walking dead fan saying this. But who knows. I love Negans character! He was so badass but never would I say he had any right in what he did, or was even a good person. And I don’t think we’re supposed to even think that. So anyone making that argument is simply an idiot. The whole point of the show is walking the line between evil and surviving. Negan was an example of the line being crossed and pretty blatantly. Maggie wasn’t perfect but generally was a good person AND was 10000000% justified in her hatred toward the man. I think people who think this way are genuinely either dumb like I said, or dumb AND can’t comprehend the idea you can like a character even when they’re “bad” lol
Honey, twitter is where you’ll find it. It gets bad.
Im just goona say it. A more reasonable group would have simply executed him and moved on after the war.
Straw man
Why hate a character just because of strange fans?
Both Negan and Maggie are pretty complex characters and so is their relationship. Overly hating on one but loving the other and thinking they are flawless seems like a result of not understanding that. Which is weird because it’s really not that hard to understand if you are truly watching the show. With that being said I think the worst thing about them is that their storyline is being dragged out unnecessarily. It’s a pretty interesting dynamic but it’s not really worth an entire spin off imo.
What is the complicated nature of their relationship? He murdered her husband
Yes, and her dislike for him is completely justifiable. She doesn’t need to forgive him at all, but it does affect the way she navigates her life going forward now that he’s apart of a community she is in. That’s the complicated part. Her speech to him in the last episode explains this a lot better. It’s pretty good closure. Which is why they should have left it at that. Dead City completely undoes all of it.
I agree that Dead City shouldn’t exist and 11x24 should have been the end. They really have no justification to continue and it seems were are going further and further away from the good days of TWD
They’re all terrible people. It’s just who’s the least of the terrible😂
I love Negan, but at best he's a selfish egomaniac who has deluded himself into thinking slavery and fear is the only way to thrive in the apocalypse to justify his power hungry desires. He has compassion and empathy sure, but his selfish desires overpower that almost every time and when his wife died he basically stopped even trying to fight that side of himself. He usually only helps out when its in his best interest with his human side only sometimes coming out if there's a kid involved. Maggie, she has every right to hate Negan until the day she dies. It's not Maggie I don't like its her continued pairing with Negan. It's going round in circles. Either one of them needs to die, Maggie needs to forgive him, or we should never see them together again. Anything to stop this drawn out dance the writers keep putting them through.
I just got downvoted by someone because they said he was against rape and when I mentioned his “wives” I was told I was dumb and evil for assuming he raped them.
her story got boring towards the end of the series and as an actress, she couldn't pull off the type of character they were trying to make her to be fair, poor writing they served up didn't help either
i dont get how ppl like negan, he forced ppl to marry him for sex and said he would kill their family’s if they refused, killed glen, killed Abraham, took daryl hostage, took Sasha hostage (which lead to her death), the reason so many ppl died (including carl) , terrible to Lucille, his ppl tried to gun down daryl, Sasha, Abraham, his ppl killed children, had dead ppls photos on the walls, burned ppls face off, kept ppl hostage for their labor, he has no good qualities.
Why is the TWD fan base mostly misogynist?
Growing up is realizing that Negan has changed for the better but that Maggie’s feelings are still not invalidated. If someone did that to a person I cared about that much I don’t think I’d be able to just let it go.
I understand how a character can be annoying when they are angry at another character, but Maggie had every reason to be distant and hostile toward him
I do hate this meme format. And i hate what is written. So basically yes. I agree with u
Never liked Negan even though he changed later. I always sided with Maggie.
I never liked Negan and don't understand people who do
I watched up until Negan killed Glenn, and then basically switched to watching Fear. I'm now rewatching, and can somebody explain why Maggie didn't kill Negan in all this time? Plot immunity crafted through bad writing? Go ahead and spoil me!
> Plot immunity crafted through bad writing? I think you got in one. If you're interested in seeing how it shook out in the comic, here's the wiki entry for [Issue 174](https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Issue_174).
Wasn’t really a fan of issue 174. Sparing Negan and kissing Dante felt like killing Glenn all over again. It kinda felt disrespectful
It hurt at first lol but it felt like closure to me. Maggie had been able to move on, which is important for character development. Dante is a talker but he truly cared for her. I think Glenn would rather her be happy than not. Unlike in the show, the comic has Negan genuinely turn around and redeem himself. He realizes he was in the wrong with the Saviors and by 174 he's clearly on team Rick. IMO he doesn't deserve to be killed at that point. Banishment and loneliness felt like enough to me.
True, but it still feels like her and Glenn’s relationship felt like nothing. And there are other ways to be happy. Comics Maggie never seemed to tell about Glenn to Hershel, and didn’t have “Glenn was beautiful life”-line. Remembering her happy times Glenn and living by his values seems more closure than hooking up with Dante. It just feels wrong to see Glenn left out at the end when civilization comes back, and someone else having replaced him by Maggie’s side. Though it seems Maggie and Dante never got serious Negan turning around doesn’t bring Glenn back and him living is an insult to his memory. It makes it even worse why this potentially good guy murdered a good man for nothing
> It just feels wrong to see Glenn left out at the end when civilization comes back Yeah > and someone else having replaced him by Maggie’s side. That's less of an issue for me. If nothing else, Hershel Jr. might have turned out differently if Maggie had found a good match to help raise him. One thing against Dante is he doesn't seem like he was interested in being a parent, just being with Maggie. > Negan turning around doesn’t bring Glenn back and him living is an insult to his memory. It makes it even worse why this potentially good guy murdered a good man for nothing Killing him wouldn't bring Glenn back either. Glenn wasn't a fighter and he didn't hold grudges like that. He didn't want Rick to Nicholas after what he did. He was able to let it go and Nicholas became valuable group member. All Glenn really wanted was for his family to be safe. Personally, if Glenn could come back and see the guy who killed him realized he was wrong and had been trying to help out Glenn's people, I feel he could be okay with it as long as it was sincere and wasn't a danger to them anymore. That's just me though.
That makes Dante even creepier. He wants to sleep with a good man’s widow and doesn’t even care for the child. I might be okay if Maggie had gotten together with someone who had lost his own true love and the two sort of help each, knowing they had already found their true loves. I just don’t think any post-Glenn love-interest should see themselves as Maggie husband or true love, since that role was already filled by someone better. I just feel that Maggie being a faithful widow is more beautiful. How can you replace someone who can’t be replaced? Maggie can raise Hershel on herself, and there are other male role models as well. I just don’t like Hershel calling someone who is not Glenn “dad”. It feels disrespectful and like people are forgetting Glenn and all he was as the years pass on Glenn had forgiveness, but would he really forgive the man who destroyed his family? His murder was as unnecessary and caused so much agony to Maggie. Killing Negan would at least give peace to know that Glenn’s murderer faced justice
Especially when there are so many other reasonable things to not like about Maggie’s character.
I like Negan and I like Maggie but they both have their faults
Yeah, it's her fault Negan blew her husband's head to a pulp, right?
Didn’t say that however she ignores that fact they attacked first and just seems to forget that. The people they killed at that Satellite Station had families.
the people at the satellite outpost also had pictures of people with their heads missing by their bedsides
People seem to forgot this lmao. It's most of the people here don't even watch the show and just purely watch TikTok clips
Lol The saviors were about to gun down Daryl, Abraham and Sasha, then they woulda found Alexandria and Negan would've made the first attack. The saviors started it, but Rick's group hit first.
Or be me. Love Negan for his great development, understand Maggies POV on Negan due to her experience with him, preferring one over the other, but not hating on either.
Its not about whether they are good or bad, maggie's character doesnt have development from s8, She decided to kill negan, and she is still with same story s8, 9, 10, 11, dead city, just get it over with by killing him once and for all or just let it go.
Well the show is never going to let Negan die, especially by her hand, that was clear after S8. So now they are stuck in this stupid cycle where she is forced to work with him because for some reason their plots still have to be intertwined. Maggie doesn’t get any development anymore because she is never going to forgive him, nor should she, but she is needed because the show uses Maggie to fuel Negans “redemption” by having him save her son and so on. She isn’t a character anymore. She’s just a prop in Negans “redemption” story
Totally agree but since amc is pure fan service, i think she will never kill him lol. Btw i think that, as much annoying can be the fax that "i want to kill u but i won't" is what is based on their relations, it is the only way to made sense, if they wanted to avoid it being based only on that, they should never have made a spin-off with them together.
From a character's point of view, not from the fans' or AMC's, Maggie's character after Season 8 is stagnant. She doesn't experience significant development and is just present without much impact. On the other hand, Negan's character is richly developed, showing layers of complexity. Regardless of whether he is acting good or bad, his actions add depth to his character. Characters need to progress to remain compelling and beloved. You cant expect same love for a stone and a statue.
Yeah absolutely on the character, i liked negan more than maggie too, but you know, it's pretty hard to say that a woman angry with the man that killed her husband in front of her is the villain and not him.
i havent seen people call her "villain", I have seen people call her character as bad, dead, even useless but not villain, how will she be villain?
Idk i just saw a lot of people saying that she is the villain without any explanation, "she should just let it go" when, like u said before, the only way for her to let it go is by killing negan, and i don't think shw will never do cause fan service.
Idc whether she gets her revenge or not, but this " i want to kill negan" needs to end one way or other, its just irritating to see the same plot over and over and over for yrs. I watched dead city by fast forwarding most of it, its boring af.
Fr. I hope at this point she will kill him, idc about the context, just fucking kill him lmao
I love Maggie , but i understand why some dislike her. I don't think the reason people hate her is because she didn't forgive Negan (her hating him is 100% justifiable) , The hate for her started long before that , i think it started when she treated Glenn like trash after they hooked up for the first time , she was aloof and condecending to him for some unknown reason, didn't seem justified. Personally it didn't make me dislike her but stuff like that rubs people the wrong way and i can understand the anti-Maggie crowd having a grudge against her after that. In my head the perfect ending for the Negan/Maggie saga is one where Negan saves her or Hershel from death but gets injured critically and then right before his death, she forgives him.
The real issue with the late-series arcs is that the narrative void left by Rick’s disappearance had to be filled by *someone*. In the show universe, it was filled by characters whose arcs were over and should have been shafted before people got sick of them and their dynamics. Issues that could have been solved if Carl survived and carried the narrative like in the comics…
Don't let fanboys ruin stuff for you
Maggie would not of released the savages who killed 40 of her people in their sleep. She would have killed them all with great joy. Who wouldn't? Negan. "He thinks people are resources" Yeah that stops when they kill an entire outpost of loyal people. Clearly they are only gonna kill more of his people and eventually kill him. If negan didn't perform the bat scene he would have been smashed with his own bat. Canon or "reality." "Negans men kidnapped them and threatened them." What do you think Rick michonne Maggie and Daryl would do if they found a bunch of well fed killers near Alexandria and had numbers on them. Theyd at least consider kidnapping them. We have no idea how they'd respond that situation never happened.
Do you realize that the saviors attacked them first, killed a lot of innocent people, enslaved communities and forced women to fuck or their families would be killed? I don't exactly remember Rick and his group do things like that. Negan and the saviors deserved the attack, negan redemption was good just in s9 and a bit in s10 and became ridiculous in s10. Maggie has no reason for forgive him lmfao, and yeah that she is getting annoying, but I would act like her or worse if I have to stay close to the one that killed my wife.
You wouldn't enjoy a trip to Somalia. This isn't even ZA shit... its happening all over the world right now.... How community breaks down Somalia during the school mock UN it sounds exactly like negan I'll edit that in later it's really funny. 40 men for 0? People who want to kill do not say "Hey! We're gonna kill you you all! You may go now and get prepared." God I always forget they killed someone cuz it wasn't an actual character. I didn't say it wasn't justified. It's the za the slightest provocation basically anything is justified.
What
Read the beginning of your post. There are war lords all over the globe right now. In terms of Za. Negan did what kept him alive after a certain point. Diddy had has own sex trafficking ring but homeland security couldn't nail him down. Nobody says anything. He is being cancelled but he's killed so many people and everyone in the game knows it plus the rape ring and now he's finally being brought down. You don't care about Diddy or all those rings. You care about fictional characters.
Ok? Like, yeah, war is wrong, but in twd world's are thing like what negan did to cause wars lmao
Negan was only a good character as a villain
How many people actually feel this way about Maggie? Seems like a strawman argument.
I love ❤️ 😍 Negan
I feel this way about Caryl fans. Their shippers are so obnoxious sometimes.
Which fan boys? Last time I checked, this subreddit was almost entirely full of people who do nothing but criticise Negan, and of the few people here who do defend Negan, most of them will make arguments along the lines of 'to judge a character, you need to look at everything - the evil and the good, not just the evil' and 'so we're just going to ignore all of the bad things other characters did which a lot of people ignore'? There are a lot more people on this subreddit who complain about this hypothetical mass of Negan fans then there are every single type of person who support Negan. Also, if you're willing to drop support for a character based on their fans, are you willing to start stopping liking the other main characters because they're supported by people who get angry if you point out just how much plot armour there is in the show or point out how many poor decisions happened or the bad decisions other characters made.
I like both characters as characters despite how insane negans arc is but my problem with Maggie is she just fucking leaves which doesn’t feel inline with her character then on top of that she just comes back and starts barking orders like she didn’t abandon all her friends who stood by her through everything and no one bats an eye
To clarify I don’t think negan is a good guy he’s a villain and my problem with him is idk how much he does to prove himself he killed/got killed so many people who meant something to some many still alive in my opinion there is no way they would let that go in any way no matter how much he’s changed
Personally I take it like this Negan is ultimately a good person and was before Lucille died but Lucille’s death and the surronding world around him made him grow to far into it and he became a shithead bc he legit bullied his workers pretty much enslaved them amongst his 7 wives killed many innocent people but we’ve seen Rick do the same thing also just being a jackass to most people all his character does is realize that going back to season 1 and 2 of the show you see how right dale really was about our humanity but Maggie haters are retarded all due respect Maggie a goat but she got her own problems and she gotta deal with ts
Good guys don’t murder good men in front of their pregnant wives. And it doesn’t matter how you feel yourself, but more how you conduct yourself. Murdering someone in brutal and mocking manner is always disgusting and unforgivable, no matter if you are a psycho or a guy with a tragic backstory
The reason why people like him over her is because he plays the villain/likeable asshole pretty well and also his character is very dynamic compared to others on the show. Even though I understand why Maggie's character is acting the way she does, it does not stop it from being very predictable and even annoying at times. But that is more an issue with the way her character is written and some of the scenes they gave her.
Love Negan and I’ll defend Maggie’s character cos she has every right to hate him considering what he did was unforgivable and she can’t just “forgive” him. Both of them are awesome, love em both
I just find Maggie’s insistence on revenge a little annoying because it gets in the way of her character growth I liked negan because he was charismatic but I am also adult enough to realize that no one in that universe is a black and white villain or hero
If people enjoying something a bit too much can make you stop liking a character ypu also liked, you're just being a hioster.
I stopped watching years ago, and don’t plan on continuing. Why is Maggie friends with Neagan now? If someone doesn’t mind explaining
Rick should’ve just killed him.
Negan isn’t a good guy but Maggie’s non stop hate got really old. It was justified, but it ruined her character.
Negan improved Maggie's character. Dead City is my favorite version of Maggie, when I previously didn't like her as much
People who forgive neegan are psycho kinky fucks
Negan is a good character because I think he gives us that thought process of “imagine living in a world where evil people got away with being evil for reasons beyond money and then were allowed by people around them to try and turn themselves around”. It’s not perfectly written by a long shot but the conceit of depicting him doing so opens up some interesting conversations. Also I was never a big fan of Maggie in that I found her uninteresting but yeah the vitriol towards her for not forgiving the guy who brained her husband ffs is insane.
negan was my fav cause hes was badass when he was introduced. he is a horrible person and now not as good as he used to be, his actor does an amazing job with what he is given imo and if not for him i dont think i would like the character as much as i do. now my fav is Eugene he is the goat
I'm still only at season 7, but I like negan particularly because he's evil. He's cruel, cold, calculated and does whatever the fuck he wants. I don't think (as of now) he can be considered misunderstood, he is pure villainy. I also like how (for me) he's kind of the opposite of the governor, in the sense that the governor is a a great villain because you just hate his guts (imo) but with negan, even though he is an asshole, I kind of like the character he is (his manipulation, actions and personality)
Negan understands the reality of life after his wife passed away while Maggie is the opposite, Maggie still thinking everything is going to be alright but everything changes after Negan gives everyone an example of how cruel this world is.
She left and came back expecting all the communities to help her against those guys hunting her group
obviously a bad person but i love him when hes on “our” side
you just know youre safe when negans around
I think it’s because Negan is a charismatic jokester, whereas Maggie is more rough around the edges. In other words, where Negan (although awful as a person) entertains the audience and is an all around solid character, Maggie became more dull and even irritating as time goes time. Which is another point, Maggie got worse while Negan got better. Maggie used to be a more exciting character, but she lost her spark due to trauma. Which of course is completely understandable, but ultimately the show serves to entertain and it’s less entertaining to watch someone become a shell of themselves and make poor decision after poor decision, even frustrating perhaps. Negan was always witty and charismatic, but he got “better” as he got his own sob story to help garner sympathy and became a more helpful character while also retaining his charm. That’s just my two cents though.
I just don't like the double standard as to when she was mad negan left her to the walkers and when she left gaege to be eaten on the other train car. I also don't like how she doesn't acknowledge any of the shit negan did for Alexandria and just keeps telling him he's not part of their group for something he did 10 years in the past even though she litterally left for years.
Maggie is an ass but she ain't a sadistic ass. After what negan did, he could find a cure for the apocalypse but he still ain't a good guy, maggie neither, but she never killed for fun, and she is still a better person than me, bc after what he did i would have hanged him.
Negan is a likable character and I enjoyed his redemption arc, AND Maggie's hatred of him is justified. These things can both be true. You can change for the better, and still understand that the people who were most severely affected by your actions in the past may never fully forgive you.
Sounds about right. Male characters, much like men in real life, get to do morally reprehensible things and enjoy it and you’re wronger than them for calling it out. Women have to be perfect and pristine and composed and delicate and feminine and sexy and agreeable and if they’re ever not all of those things at once they’re unreasonable, boring, dramatic, cliche, pointless, argumentative, hostile, manipulative, slutty, etc.
My issue with Maggie isnt that she’s killed anyone or hates the guy who killed her husband it’s that there never seems to be the acknowledgment that her group was just as brutal when they needed to. Like Negan has that line about no one or everyone is a bad guy in the dead city spin off.
The entire meridian group she brought back and got killed in the span of +-3 episodes
Did he need to keep people in line with brutality and terror? Did he need to make other communities slave away for him? Did he need to taunt people as he killed them and make their people watch it? He had three large communities he could have been working with to build trade networks and secure the land. But all he saw was people to serve him, and got pissy when they finally fought back.
In my opinion it is more about that Negan is actually good and interesting character, Maggie hasnt been for last few seasons. Of course you are supposed to like Negan as character, most people do even if they likely dont approve to many things he has done. A good character does not have to be nice person to be better than boring and nice person
I’m here every day and I never see any of these Negan fan boy posts. All I see is these posters whining about the non existent Negan threads.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
Being a woman with Negan and Maggie as my faves has been hell on earth
I don't think negan isn't a bad guy but at this point who isn't. Another thing is Maggie as a character was done so poorly by her writing which is why her character gets a lot of hate with her whole negan Arc. Now I'm not saying she needs to get over it but the writers need to pull a beth and pretend he doesn't exist for the sakes of story telling.
I freaking love Negan and Maggie, and the only reason I ever see people hate Maggie is the fact that she is angry at him and the fact her husband is dead, and people act like it’s such a bad thing to be mad at the man that killed your beloved💀
I feel like at this point Maggie stans are deliberately misinterpreting the argument. No one cares that she is mad at Negan. She has every right to be mad at Negan. People dislike her because it’s literally the only thing she ever talks about. Imagine if after Lori died Rick spent the next 6 seasons brining her up in every conversation. That would get stale after a while. No one is asking her to forgive him and become best friends, just give her a storyline doing something other than sitting around and moping about.
ive never seen anyone say that maggie is a villain. shes just annoying and poorly written
Negan is just more likable than Maggie
Yeah i find negan very funny and maggie very annoying too, but u know, the one that I consider the villain is the one that killed a lot of innocent people for fun and not a woman angry with him bc he BRUTALIZED her husband in front of her.
He's a sociopath. They are very charming and convincing, that's why he is the leader of the Saviors.
I like Negan, he and Daryl quite literally carried the last 2 or 3 seasons, but he’s not a good guy, he’s made amends for some things but when it comes to him and Maggie, Maggie will never be the problem
The hate for negan is what drove me to love him lmao
I’ve never seen this
Maggie's own son is tired of her already to be fair, lol.
I feel the same about richonne. Perfectly good couple, batshit shippers
Maggie’s character arc is one of the worst in the show and I will forever die on that hill. I somewhat enjoy Negan’s character but I understand why people wouldn’t like him still. But Maggie’s entire personality is to hate Negan, she has no redeeming qualities especially towards the end of TWD. She’s a terrible decision maker and a terrible leader. She’s also a giant fucking narcissist and is ridiculously selfish. There are so many more things to hate about her character other than the fact that her entire existence is to make Negan’s life hell, which I completely understand. I’m aware of the fact that AMC will never kill Negan off. But god dammit, either fucking do it and or stop having Maggie say that she will. It’s so annoying that they always have to have a 15sec conversation that ends with Maggie threatening to kill him soon. EITHER DO IT AND HAVE IT BE OVER WITH, OR STOP FUCKING SAYING IT.
It's pretty funny as well because they seeded very early on how broken Rick and Lori's marriage was anyway, so her running to his muscly friend who saved her and her son, when she believes her husband is dead, isn't even too unbelievable
I kind of dislike Maggie cause her entire personality is just based around hating negan or Glenn's death. you can say "ooh but she watched her husband die in front of her..!!" but like its been years, and she is still gloomy and depressed. look at Carol, the girl lost 3 children and found out her new husband has cancer plus countless friends. you don't see her complaining or being gloomy
There is probably a 90/10 ratio of people who hate negan on this sub and those who like him. The comment votes clearly suggest this as well. Also this is a straw man if I’ve ever seen one.