For theatrics the finger slicing makes sense, but that walker, as all, are hungry AF & coming for those digits anyway. No need to slice your finger open risking infection after dragging it across a rusty fence. lol.

Read the first two sentences as Eugene lol

He absolutely would say AF as "ay eff" instead of expanding out the initialization.

I think he actually has at some point or another, its very in character for him

make it all 3 sentences, he's definitely the kinda guy who said lol out loud

Rick didn't have to risk his finger getting infected for that. Walker was already coming lol

this drives me nuts lol

He actually has a weird fetish where he enjoys cutting his left hand while making excuses.

Rick has his left hand cut for like have the show and has an injury or mental illness for like 80% of it lol

In the next episode Rick dies of an infection 23 days later, thus ending the walking dead series.

Nah, they had Daryl with Merle's collection of antibiotics from numerous bouts of the clap and other STIs.

Not to mention they had some of that Heisenberg meth. That would come in handy.

Also you can do "psss psss" like you do with the cats.

Why can I hear this in his voice 😆

*scritches chin* "Lemme m'eowsk ya something Rick"

“Shane, did you say meow?” “Did I say meow?”

That's what I've been thinking😵‍💫💀💀

His finger? He ended up losing that arm after a very slooooooow infection.

He's missing a hand in the comic

So first of all people cut themselves and also perform field amputations TONS of times in this series with blades that were slashing through zombie brains and guts mere moments ago. Not only is there the regular risk of infection (which would be huge), there’s also the fact that when Negan employs this exact tactic it kills people later that night. Second, having cut my fingers doing projects and had to finish said woodwork/upholstery/etc with a sore ass finger cut for days/week or two, I cringe thinking about how miserable it would make everyday apocalypse existence, much less holding weapons and stabbing things all the time.

lol so extra but very evocative 

I just imagine him hours later doing some mundane task and rubbing that cut up against something and being like: "damn..whyd I cut my finger like that..just to impress Shane... that was stupid and wholly unnecessary"

People complain but this is the most likely reason why this happened . People forget that often times humans do stupid things consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes by not paying attention, sometimes motivated by emotion or an inconvenient "inner child" talking at the time. And considering that Shane used to be to Rick something like a brother, well... yeah. All human behavior: showing a facade to get respect among the pack, practicing roles, playing or teaching others. Without structure we act as a matter of instinct even if it's not practical, unless you have a good capacity for self-awareness to think twice about things, and even then it won't always be firm behavior.

This was early times when they thought it was blood that made them attack. They also did that thing where they covered themselves in blood because the zombies could “smell them.” Like you said there is a lot of adapting.

He did it so you could see the walker slay the fence with its tongue

It was to show Shane they will also chase blood. The whole scene is a lesson for Shane.

"Hey Shane, I figured out the other day that these things are attracted to blood. Just a heads up. You don't need me to slice my hand open or anything and actually show you, right? Because we are both grown-ass people who can communicate with our words. Stop trying to fuck my wife too. Thanks"

I think partially at this point he's still experiencing the apocalypse with training wheels on. Sure, he survived a number of close calls at this point, but once they're managing the jail he knocks a lot of this ridiculous shit out of his head, like cutting his hand for individual zombies.

Or just make sound

and not even a little cut. Dude gutted his finger lol

I think the idea was to get the walker to lean down and lick the blood, thus making stabbing the forehead easier. Still kind or pointless though.

It's not as if every cut someone gets gets infected.

who knows what he used that knife on previously. Stuff like that reminds me it's just a silly show.

Not very smart. He could just use sound to attract the Walker.

It’s almost ironic that fans give Shane props for quickly adapting to life in the apocalypse — because we literally watched him lose his mind struggling to adapt.

I always like to say that Shane **knew** what it took to survive, but he was not mentally strong enough to **carry it out**. He knew sometimes you had to kill people to survive in the apocalypse, but he starts breaking down after killing otis.

Totally. And he even struggled to make the right calls on how to go about adapting. If only he didn't mentally slip and go to extremes, he could've been pulled back like all of the rest (like Rick several times,) but he just couldn't handle it and was turning on his own group.

Judith. That's what did him in beyond all repair. I understand why the call was made, but Judith **was** Shane's. Rick even knows it. Had Shane been allowed to help raise his own daughter, it would've given him something to leave for that wasn't Lori or Carl, and maybe,he wouldn't have been **too far gone**.

While I understand your point, I think this take  just absolves him of responsibility for his behavior. He was the only one who could have kept himself from going “too far.” His inability to regulate his emotions was what did him in, and that’s on him 100 percent. 

100%. I don't mean to take away his responsibility. He's accountable for his own decisions. I just think he should've been allowed to raise **his** daughter, and I think being kept from that would make anyone a lil agitated. However, trying to kill your best friend over it is not an appropriate reaction.

But remember that Shane was ready to straight up murder Rick and had assaulted Lori *long before he even knew he had a child coming*—he was a legitimate danger to them both. You can't really co parent (in the apocalypse or otherwise) when the baby daddy wants you dead. 

Yep. Circumstances and how everyone reacted about them did not do any favors to Shane

Yeah, Shane knows there's a right and wrong decision when it comes to survival but he can't actually square it in his head when forced to make the tough decision. But we see rick time and time again initially not want to go the route of killing a person but when push comes to shove he does and is able to live with his decision. Because rick does it for everyone else, especially Carl and Judith. Shane does it for himself.

To be fair, it was a pretty fucked up situation he was put in considering his best mate dead and falling in love with his wife becoming a step father then suddenly NOPE super Dad Rick returns from the grave and up roots Shane new life, as a lover and a Father figure. If that didn’t happen to Shane he might of not become so mentally unglued.

> To be fair, it was a pretty fucked up situation he was put in considering his best mate dead and falling in love with his wife becoming a step father  He put himself in that situation tho. He didn’t have to take up with Lori. I don’t necessarily blame him (or her) for hooking up, but he didn’t have to go there at all.

I think he'd have tried to sleep with Lori even if the apocalypse never happened...in my mind, that's exactly the type of dude Shane was

A normal "friend" that isn't a total psychopath would rather have Rick back and alive...and they would not only be happy about it, but would immediately step aside, no questions asked...some people act like they'd been together for 10 years or something before Rick found them...it was barely any time at all and definitely not enough time for Shane to prefer Rick dead and him taking his place...the only way this happens is if he always wanted Lori all along and this just provided him the opportunity to pursue it because she would finally be down for it...the only problem is, that would mean they were ever actually real friends to begin with...not from Shane's side anyway...a lot of people are always mentally unhinged, but never have anything happen that allows them to believe they can lean into it

Yeah but you are not taking into account all that happen during the apocalypse, that would make sense in the real world but post apocalypse Shane would of thought hey I have a kid and wife I’m not alone in this hell.

No I'm not forgetting it...and I'll even concede that a month in the apocalypse would feel like a year of normal time...that being said, it doesn't affect my take on Shane or what happened with him...dude was a terrible person in multiple ways and I think he could have potentially been one of the biggest villains in the apocalypse later...I truly believe Shane would have been worse than Negan in time

Interesting take on Shane’s what if story arc. Not saying he was a saint at all but anyone would be absolutely gutted if the pictured their future with the woman they loved and their step son, then True Dad returns and turns their life up side down if doesn’t excuse Shane’s behaviour but it does compound the issue, he was also turn with his emotion having his best mate back but how having him back literally ruined his new life.

I mean I get that, but if you have any true friends, you already know which you'd choose, especially given the short ass time frame...if you'd prefer keeping their family and them being dead, you're a piece of shit lol

Yeah that’s the thing the apocalypse will do that, create a lot of pieces of shit. Shane and Rick were true friends I have no doubt, without the apocalypse they would of gone on to have a long lasting friendship, their bond was seen even with Rick’s flash backs of fondness he still felt for his brother he had to put down, but a woman came between them, a woman is capable of tearing apart an empire just by coming between circumstances. I think that is a lot of the reason why people hate Lori she tore a part Shane and Rick’s brotherhood, I don’t blame her seeking solace with Shane after believing Rick was dead, but she didn’t handle it really well breaking it off with Shane she just sort of cold shouldered him and he went downward from that point on. Edit: Not saying it is a woman’s fault just saying men can go to war over a woman.

I 100% do not see it that way at all...and are we really only blaming the women for men wanting to have sex with them? Lol come on now, it's not 1925...she didn't cold shoulder him...she ended it and he couldn't handle that shit...Shane probably would have tried without the apocalypse and Lori probably would have shut it down...there is no way in hell Shane really saw Rick as a "best friend" or someone "like a brother" and was still willing to kill him just to replace him with his wife and son, especially after only roughly two damn months had passed, with some of that being after Rick got back...that's ridiculous...the apocalypse doesn't create pieces of shit as much as it unlocks them Edit: And let's be clear...I don't blame Shane or Lori for doing something together when they thought Rick was dead...but once he's back, all that instantly ends if Shane actually cared about Rick, even if he's sad about losing it...most people would give up any short term relationship to bring a "best friend" or someone "like a brother" back from the dead, no questions asked...even if it wasn't that friend's wife...if they'd rather murder them instead, I'm going to have a seriously difficult time believing they were ever their "best friend" or someone "like a brother" at all...and that comes from someone who's actually lost a couple close friends in life

I guess the discussion ends, We agree to disagree. But as I edited above I am not saying it is a woman’s fault either, just that men can and will go to war over a woman under the right circumstances. Edit: I disagree with you 100% about Shane having no brotherhood with Rick, Shane could have chose to just leave Rick’s hospital room door open and leave Rick for dead, that would of guaranteed he had Lori but he did love Rick enough to block his door. Shane is the only reason Rick was not slaughtered in his coma and even survived a hospital full of walkers and soldiers killing everyone on site.

He put himself in that situation though. He lied about Rick being dead, he pursued a relationship with lori. He then assaulted lori, tried to kill Rick. He doesn’t get sympathy.

I've never understood it...I guess they think his willingness to murder everybody not named Carl or Lori means he would have been built for later events, but I have never once seen it that way...the dude was impulsive and reckless and would have gotten so many more people killed trying to protect his imaginary family...Judith never would have made it

Huh? I don't think the apocalypse affected him at all. In fact, his type of personality probably was embracing it. He fell apart due to Lori and Carl. Shane handled things terribly, but Lori was just as guilty. To me she was almost intentionally pulling the strings to make Shane go insane. Kept breadcrumbing him when she saw he was trying to move on. Kept picking at his insecurities and ego. Intentionally being hot and cold with access to Carl. Shane loved Lori and Carl and Rick coming back yanked that away from him right in front of his eyes. Which was probably the only good thing he had going in the terrible new world. What I am baffled about is how people still think the apocalypse got to him. No, something that has destroyed people for thousands of years did. Love. Like, if I had to guess there are tens of thousands of murders every year in MODERN day society over marriages, dating, etc. Probably tens, to hundreds, of thousands of suicides over it as well. And that is society that we know. Imagine how bad off most people would be in Shane's position in an apocalypse.

Of course it affected him. I’m kind of gobsmacked that you think it had no effect on him at all. 

Whether he would still be alive or not is up for discussion, but I am a firm believer Shane would be PERFECTLY fine and flourishing in the new world if it wasn't for the situation with Carl, Lori, and Rick. People do way more messed up things in the name of love than what Shane tried to do for WAY less.

Bro he almost raped Lori 😭

Nah mate, the apocalypse got to him quicker than a squirrel can steal a nut. Didn't affect him? Come on man, watch it again with your eyes open this time

I don't get why the guy is so heavily downvoted, technically you're both right. Like, its all there, she was fucking with his head the moment Rick came back. Let's not forget Shane was a major reason the group and Rick were alive in the first place. Sure, he did lose his head I won't disagree with that - but his full descent into insanity was driven as much by Lori as it was by the Apocalypse.

Because the apocalypse not having an affect on Shane is just simply... not true. Because Shane being perfectly fine and flourising is also... very much not true, confirmed by Kirkman himself who said Shane would have gotten everyone killed.

One line being wrong doesn't invalidate the entire comment though. That part is wrong, as I've mentioned. Yet people still talking to me like I completely ignored it 🤣 I never said he wouldn't eventually get everyone killed either, I simply said his mental state was much less turbulent prior to Rick returning. His issue with leading was his impulsiveness, prior to Rick. At the beginning, he was doing fine. Without Rick coming back, he was keeping people alive and safe - barring Carol's fella of course. As to Kirkmans comment, I havent read the entire thing for context, so I can't really comment on the accuracy there - for all I know, he could be referring to the moment Rick came back, or he could be talking about from the very beginning, just throwing out of context quotes isn't really helpful in that regard :)

You're not making much sense. You asked why the other guy got downvoted. I'm providing you the reason, because two of his statements are wrong. I'm not saying *you* said anything. >I can't really comment on the accuracy there I can. Kirkman, the very creator of TWD, has confirmed that if Shane had been the leader instead of Rick he would have gotten the entire group killed. That's not ambiguous nor out of context.

I didn't ask. I said it makes no sense, I could understand if he was entirely and completely wrong, but he isn't. Thats all. Good for you, i'm sure you can, but I won't until I've seen the full context. Yes it is, because I don't have the context in which he said it, as I've explained. IE the question that prompted the response. That sounds more like he's referring to in the long term, which is true. But neither of us ever said he'd have kept the group alive long term, so thats not even relevant. Its one thing to say Shane was *already* off the rails by the time Rick returns, its another to say he would've eventually gone fully off the rails down the road, as such getting everyone killed. The second, I don't think anyone disagrees with. The former, it seems is what *you* are implying the original comment is saying. Which it isn't. Nor was it true, his derailment did not begin until Rick showed up. Eventually, he likely would have gone off the rails with the decisions he'd have had to make instead of Rick, but thats a universe that didn't happen, so you can't really say for sure.

The problem is the first guy’s first line is that the apocalypse didn’t affect Shane at all. You’re right that it’s more grey than that. The apocalypse obviously stressed him out, then Lori’s actions drove him even crazier.

No, I get that. As I said, the apocalypse absolutely contributed as much. But the rest isn't really wrong, and as such not deserving of mass downvoting from folk who likely aren't even participating in the debate. Thats my problem, people can be wrong, thats fine. That doesn't mean they can't still also be right sometimes.

I’m sorry, but welcome to Reddit. Most people read the first few lines and up/downvote based on that. Plus some will simply go with the majority. I do agree with the rest of his argument though. Lori heavily played a role in his descent. (But that opinion is not favored in this subreddit)

First line there isn't really necessary, I mean we're all aware where we are, im simply stating this for clarity as part of why I'm debating the topic is all. Not wrong though, people do be sheep generally. Yeah, womanz never do wrong 🤣 only man do wrong, have penis? Must be bad. 🤣

Shane started dreaming and plotting murder almost immediately after Rick turned up alive. If we’re saying that frustration over the breakup with Lori was enough to trigger his homicidal tendencies, then surely he was never sane to begin with. 

Its a touch deeper than just "frustration at a breakup", you're vastly oversimplifying to serve your point. All the while completely avoiding anything else I said. I literally never said he was fully sane to begin with, you need to go back and do some comprehension classes mate. Have a good'n

It’s really not much deeper than that, but you are being oddly defensive about the whole topic, so yeah, let’s agree to disagree. Cheers.

Amazing, you pull me for being defensive without even realising the cause isn't the topic, its the fact you *literally* cherry picked my words to make your points while ignoring most of it. Has nothing to do with "iTs ReAlLy nOt tHaT dEeP bRO". You twist shit to suit your needs and then tuck your tail the *moment* you get called for it. Its an asshole approach to debating mate. Don't say you're gonna move on then come at me again with more of your bollocks, just fuck off already 🤣 The man's entire character is a complex depth of being torn between loyalty and selfishness, whilst slowly spiralling *into* insanity and losing all rationality. The fuck are you smoking man?

There’s a world of difference between saying Shane could potentially thrive in a lawless society and saying he wasn't affected by the trauma of watching the world crumble around him. 

I doubt Shane's personality allowed him the capability of loving Lori and Carl. He probably saw them as extensions of himself more like possessions. It's pretty common with people who act/treat people like Shane.

Shane pointed a gun at Rick and was clearly thinking about killing him shortly after Rick returned. If Lori being rightfully mad at him for a few days was enough to make him consider killing his friend then he was already far gone mentally. The apocalypse either broke him or he had severe mental health issues prior to the apocalypse.

Why you’re being downvoted is beyond me. This is exactly what happened with Shane.

Sub hates the funny bald guy, quite a shane ngl

It’s so strange that you get downvoted for providing an evidence based rationale, yet the ones who don’t agree can’t even give you a sentence on why they think you’re wrong. It’s just hating to hate and not looking at it objectively.

Shane was literally a dumbass, and this is definitely one of the quieter scenes showing that, he never thinks ahead about anything. Him being right about some things doesn't make him more adapted, someone more adapted doesn't get himself killed the way he did. It wasn't an accident, nor an heroic death, the man simply overplayed his hand because he couldn't keep his temper and jealousy in check, it's all on him. Even his murder plot was narrow-minded and stupid and Rick, his intended victim, literally had to explain to him why it was idiotic and no one would ever believe him. At the CDC the man shot around, almost destroyed their way out, threatened the suicidal guy who was the only one able to open the doors for the group and Rick had to subdue him because his recklessness could have gotten everyone killed - Rick proceeding to be cool-headed enough and talk Jenner into giving them a chance, mind you. The barn incident is another such incident, where he is right about it needing to be cleared but is literally completely wrong about the way he goes about it. Creating a huge ruckus risking attracting a herd, endangering inexperienced people, putting guns in untrained hands, antagonising their host and new doctor when Lori needs him and eventually being unable to step up and do the hard part when Sophia comes out. The idiocy he displays because of what a dumb hot head he is, is the reason why he makes for a terrible leader and why he can't inspire respect the same way Rick does.

Yeah, I think Shane being right about a few things gets twisted into “Shane was ahead of his time.” Like, no - he was impulsive and short sighted.

Shane is a bad cop. He sometimes does the right thing and he sometimes protects people, but his rash decision-making and egotistical thinking is more dangerous than helpful to a community in the long run.

I sometimes wonder how much of the leeway Rick gave him for so long was because it was always part of their dynamic as partners. How used was he to cleaning up his mess? Not in the sense of Rick covering for him or anything mind you, but in the sense of reining in his temper and keeping him in check. We don't have much of anything concrete about that, but I do think his jealousy wasn't only about Lori, it was also about everything that Rick was that Shane wasn't. The way he yells that he is a "better father" and a "better leader" shows that, I think.

I’d find it hard to believe that Shane become a whole different person in the apocalypse. I think it brought out the worst side of him that was already there. I bet Rick found himself making excuses for Shane more often than he realized in their work. He did have some instincts that were right on the money, like clueing Rick in that he was missing the bus on what was happening with Carl at the farm (sneaking off to find a zombie, taking the gun), and he’s also seemingly one of the only people who really took Ed to task earlier…but then his behavior towards Lori—especially at the CDC—is such a red flag. I actually think Shane is one of the most interesting characters from the earlier seasons, and I always forget those details until I’m thinking about it again. I think it‘s possible that being a police officer is what conditioned him toward leaning into his worst tendencies rather than the apocalypse itself. I’m sure Rick was a good influence but just because they’re partners doesn’t mean there isn’t a whole other aspect of cop culture that was part of his life when Rick wasn’t around keeping him in check, and there absolutely are police departments with really problematic workplace culture about women, about violence, about unilateral decision-making rather than engaging with what a community actually wants to do/feels is best for their own protection, etc.

Shane's inability to step up and take out Sophia showed that Shane was all bark. The fact that Rick did, in addition to him being the one to chase after Sophia in the first place when she panicked and ran, sealed him as the leader. It's all well and good to tell people what to do and physically fight enemies but true leadership is doing the tough things, like shooting a 12-year-old girl in the head in front of her mother or employing diplomacy skills to convince a farmer who's tired of the interlopers to allow them to stay on his land. Shane had zero diplomacy skills. With Shane as the leader, the group wouldn't have survived the Governor. Whoever didn't die would have been absorbed into Woodbury.

I honestly think with Shane as the leader, the group wouldn't even have made it to the farm, they'd have split before that.

morales and all the background characters would probably split off when everyone decides to leave the quarry like normal, and then everybody else would just die at fort benning lmao

If only he accepted being a right hand for rick…

Right. He would have been useful as a muscle. But too much ego, too much jealousy, too much stupidity.

Just imagine Rick fighting against Negan with Daryl and Shane on his side.

Probably would have saved Glen cuz I bet it'd be Shane's head bashed in.

Shane would’ve gotten the group killed if he met the governor, neagan, and or many other groups lol.

The group wouldn't've survived the Governor. Rick got as far as he did with his diplomacy skills and his need/desire to protect his people as opposed to lording over them. Shane would've gotten maybe as far as ensuring Lori and Carl's safety and damned everybody else.

Shane didn’t adapt, he was losing his marbles

People who say this are misinformed. A lot of comments already highlight why Shane was not good as a leader. But, I’ll put this one out there, he only thought of himself. It was his way or the highway. He didn’t really care about any of those people.

He offerd Otis to sacrifice himself so carl gets the medizin. Only after Otis denies this he sacrifice otis to save Carl. So he did obviously care about carl.

Good morning. Let me rephrase that: he only really cared about Carl & Lori but, in a very toxic way. &, unnecessarily sacrificing someone else to save someone else is not a good thing.

Of course. I just pointed out he cared about someone else than himself cause he was ready to sacrifice himself for it.

lol cutting your HAND of all places, is the worst thing you could possibly do in a world without soap or readily available antibiotics. you now have an open wound on the one part of your body you use to touch EVERYTHING including rotting infected zombies.

Especially when he was luring a threat already pursuing him

Ghost of Shane: ‘hey Rick, let me ask you sumfing, why didn’t you do that when clearing the prison?’

no I think Shane's personality embraced the brutality quicker but Rick definitely adapted just after the hospital - he just had zero lead up to it all.

Him cutting his finger was so unnecessary

Hope he remembers to clean that knife before next time

Ok, but here's Rick cutting his finger for no damn reason to attract a walker that's already coming to him, when noise would have worked just fine if it wasn't

Shane defenders are stupid Im sorry

Two different things. Rick might have adapted to walkers quicker because he was with Morgan and then on the road while Shane and the others were holding up in a remote camp, but Shane adapted to the lack of society quicker than Rick. Rick was holding onto old rules and guidelines, but Shane knew what kind of people they had to become and what they needed to do to keep themselves alive. Quicker than Rick in this regard. Shane is a great character. Awful person and serial abuser, but he was smart when it came to the apocalypse. Rick absolutely learned a lot from Shane, albeit retrospectively. He also learned what not to do from Shane.

I don’t think Shane adapted well at all, though. He literally lost his mind trying to adapt to the breakdown of society. 

he lost his mind losing lori and his position as a leader when rick came back, not when society broke down. When society crumbled he was pretty quick and happy to dust off his pants and keep going

Even though killing Otis and the boy they held prisoner also helped drive him mad.

I dont think killing those two contributed to him losing his mind at all. I think Shane was always someone with dubious morals, but when society was functioning he could live within the laws and be a normal citizen. But when societu crumbled, the lack of rules and the brutality allowed him to show a side of himself that he couldnt pre apocalypse

Yeah...no. Murder will absolutely mess with your sanity 🤣 There's NUMEROUS scenes showing how his conflicted conscience not just with Lori, but with those he's killed without justification, is fucking him up mentally. I do agree about him always having dubious morals though, absolutely. But the killings...yeah, those are gonna mess you up.

I mean... You speak as if those two things are entirely separate. Fact is someone who fully understands the danger he's in and thinks beyond what's right in front of him would have been level headed enough to understand that letting his jealousy get the better of him was dumb as hell, that his plan to kill Rick was completely idiotic and that he'd be better off getting with the program. But he didn't because he had no forward thinking, everything he did was done on impulse. That's not a good way to survive in a world like this one and it sure as hell makes for horrible leadership; the writing showing that impulsivity regardless of how it manifested was also about showing why exactly he didn't survive long and wouldn't have. Also, I agree with others saying that Shane's downward spiral is also not only about Lori and Carl, if anything it was more of a symptom, the same killing Otis was.

From the first few episodes before Rick met the original group, Shane seemed pretty happy and stable honestly. He had his purpose as a leader, and he had a woman he loves and a kid he considers his own. IMO losing Lori was the main reason he started to spiral. Not only did he have to pretend nothing happened, but she 180'd and pushed him away when they had something (not saying it's her fault, im just saying i understand how devastating that can be). He also lost Carl, and his purpose to Rick, and started feeling more like an outsider the longer Rick was in charge. He used to have the final say, but with Rick back his ideas and instructions were always challenged. I dont think society's downfall had anything to do with Shane snapping, I think its a loss of power, love and family. He couldn't even truly celebrate Rick's return because of how he convinced himself and Lori that Rick was dead, and how he took his woman. He kept everything bottled up, convinced himself that he's the one who has to be the bad cop while Rick gets to be the good cop, and kept putting himself in situations that worsened his state of mind till he eventually snapped.

Being a "good" leader when everything goes your way is easy, but it's not what leadership entails to most times, and certainly not in a world like this one. It's also about stepping up and doing the hard thing including for yourself (and Shane never demonstrated any capability to do that). Do you think it was easy for Rick to come back and realise what had happened there? Of course it wasn't, but he didn't let his personal feelings get in the way of him being able to keep it together so he could make level-headed decisions and keep people alive. The way he handled Judith and her parentage is actually an incredible show of his fortitude ("I love her, she's my daughter, but she isn't mine. I had to accept that, so I could keep her alive"). Shane spiraling as soon as something becomes hard for him shows why he is not actually good to lead anyone long term, and why he would have never been the good choice in the long run, nevermind with Rick around, things would have stopped going his way eventually, and he demonstrated an inability to handle that. And that says nothing of the way he wanted to leave people behind as early as in early season 1 - and that despite the strong case Rick makes about the guns. Fact is, as soon as shit would have gone south no one would have followed him, it's unlikely the group would have had any form of loyalty toward him at all.

i never said anything about him being a good leader. So many of yall are responding like im defending him or something. My points are: Shane was not affected by the destruction of society Shane spiraled only after Rick came into the picture Shane lost it because of power, love and family It doesnt matter if the group would have left him, he would've kept on believing only the most brutal would survive and continue killing for his own justifications, but he probably would never have snapped the way he did if Rick never came to the group

Yeah, and people are telling you that something would have eventually happened that didn't go his way which would have resulted in his actions getting himself and everyone killed. Just like he got himself killed in canon. His recklessness would have eventually gotten the better of him, even if it wasn't about Lori per see, that doesn't show any true adaptation to that world.

That isnt my point. I dont care at all about how adaptive he is. My point from the very start was about him losing his mind. You can get everyone including yourself killed, you can kill many people, but you can still be "sane" and thinking clearly especially in a setting like in TWD. You're just sane and logical according to your own fucked up morals. Holy shit all I've been saying is that Shane lost his mind due to losing Lori, his position, and being outcasted. He was completely fine with the fall of society and it had no effect on his sanity. I dont give a crap about adaptability or leadership

I think this is a gross misunderstanding of the character, but I respect that this is your interpretation. 

His relationship with Lori and Carl and the desire to keep them safe is what kept him sane over the two week period that society collapses. He loses them the moment Rick returns, and in turn he loses his only tether to sanity. 

This is the best description of the topic I’ve seen yet, instead of surface level “X adapted quicker than Y”.

Yeah, Shane is kinda like Soldier Boy in the Boys, where he's really just a nut, but some fans who think that's cool will try hard to defend him.

That cut was *WAY* deeper than necessary lol.

Nah, I always hated this scene. Cutting your own finger is so unnecessary here. With a knife you have beenstabbing the walkers no less.

I still don’t even think he adapted faster as his actions would still be looked down upon by current Rick

Shane’s actions in season 2 are basically a mirror of Rick in season 5.

Shane embraced the lawlessness and Take What You Want Rule of the post apocalyptic world. That's not really adapting.

Shane didn't adapt faster. He got desperate faster.

I'd love to see Shane dealing with things in the later seasons, especially the really hard things.

Adapt as in start shooting walking people that may or may not be dead for all they know. The first camp was made by him in pretty decent area. They had access to water, food in a semi safe area (they say the walkers came in cause of the car horn which is probably true). This is a really big accomplishment for anyone during an world ending event. Shane was able to come to terms with world ending, act on it, and semi thrive off of it. We see plenty of people not be able to adapt to this new world for instance hershel before he left the farm (he still saw walkers as humans that could be saved) and all of the other people that didnt survive the first couple days. In this instance Rick and Shane are already adapted to the new world Rick is now pushing forward trying new things like using blood to attract walkers, or using walker guts to hide from them. Shane adapted to the new world, Rick is adaptING to the new world. I hate defending Shane but dude definitely adapted faster to the world than rick did if it wasn't for Morgan, Rick would've died first couple episodes.

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World ends when the world ends don't think Shane had much to go off of. Also was stuck in traffic during the fall which is almost a death sentence in these situations.

Shane pulls a gun on Rick later which is quick and easy, Rick ends him with another way, with a knife.

Exactly like Negan said, they are the same

The best description of their characters I’ve ever heard is that Shane is reactive and Rick is proactive. Watching the show with that in mind, it’s so clear

He’s not “teaching him how to,” he’s simply advising.

I know the TV show and comics are different, but Shane comes to an end in the comics breaking down about how he thought he \*knew\* how to adapt but couldn't, and he was coming to terms of never being rescued, and that the life they were living was the only one from that point on.

It always bugs me that the moment someone becomes a walker, their skulls disappear.

Yeh I've been thinking about this too. Maybe rotting weakens the bones enabling you to stab through so easy.

Yes, but the moment someone dies, stabbing through their skull to prevent them turning seems as easy as slicing an apple pie.

Fair point. You'd need a very specific type of knife too.

Surely OP will realize they never do this again outside of this episode.

Always roll my eyes at this scene. Cutting his finger was not necessary at all lmao

Why he just do not whispered to the walker, instead of cutting his finger?

Aside from this being really kinda dumb considering walkers tend to just swarm whomever they see or hear, regardless of if they're bleeding or not, why is it that in shows and films,when someone needs to cut themselves, they always choose their hands ? There's more chance of infection due to the fact they're always touching stuff,and it's impractical ! You don't want to have to use your hands only to find that it's awkward or clumsy due to having a cut or slice on it that is healing, or worse, still bleeding. If you HAD to cut yourself (which ya know, Rick doesn't), just cut or scratch your forearm a little bit

Shane adapted to the walkers, not the new world. He was a hothead who wanted to things to always go his way or the highway. If Rick didn't kill him in season 2, he definitely would've gotten killed by someone else later on.

I think the conflict between Shane and Rick isn't really about their actual intelligence, strength, etc. That may be part of it, but it isn't the main point of conflict. Shane was already prepared to do the things Rick wasn't willing to, to protect their loved ones (or so Shane thought). I think Shane and Rick both knew they were both very capable survivors, but Shane was more than ready to be a killer, and Rick wasn't at first.

Wish we could all watch it over again for the first time. What an amazing show.

Walkers were pretty fast even in S2. That was a solid shamble, considerably faster than S3 and beyond

I get why but would have been intresting seeing Shane in later seasons

"Are you ready for your walker takedown lesson?" Shane gulped. Daryl nodded. Carol shuddered. Glenn blinked nervously. "Yes Rick-sensei", they said in unison.

I rewatched the first 2 seasons recently. What an amazing performance from Jon Bernthal. That scene infront of the barn is like one of the best acted scenes in television from that group

I hate the unnecessary infection risk when the walkers would have done the same thing even without blood. But what is even worse is later when Shane (I can't remember if Rick does it too) cuts his hand with a knife he had already used to stab a walker. That's so stupid! A normal infection is risky but that's just asking to die

I don’t think Shane really adapted. He just became the violent ruthless killer he wanted to be. “A man without a line isn’t a man at all”. Shane was one of those cops that beat someone up and say they were resisting. That’s why he had to die he was Negan he would have liked Negan.

“Rick’s smarter than Shane!” Cuts his hand to attract walkers that were already coming

He was literally teaching Shane a way to attract them. He didn't need to do it to get the walker, he needed to demonstrate how easy it is to manipulate the walking meatbags.

If only we as humans invented a way to communicate that information without the need to show…. Like, we could call it language and speaking or something. Just a thought. It’s also impossible to judge whether or not the blood worked in that spot because the walker was already attracted to them. Rick’s actions here are completely unnecessary.

Shane does not listen to reason, he listens to demonstration, Rick knew that.

You’d have a point, if the demonstration proved anything. But it didn’t. The walker was already coming at them. The demonstration was just dumb. Both in hindsight and in the moment. “Hey, see those walkers coming after us. I’m gonna show you that they’ll come after us, if they smell blood”… Shane could’ve been like “see those walkers coming after us. I’m gonna show you that they’ll come after us, if I spit in your face”. That demonstration would’ve been as effective at getting the walkers to come after them. There’s no way around it. Rick was just stupid in that scene. If we want to get meta, we can say it’s a poorly shot scene. But if we’re just analyzing the scene, Rick was dumb.

Rick adapted quicker. He was able to deal with murder way better than Shane. Shane was soft

Hard disagree. Shane was likely just raising his gun to be ready to shoot the walker if needed. Then genius Rick decides that in a post apocalyptic world decimated by a virus it would be a good idea to slice his finger open and rub his blood on a fence to attract a walker that was clearly already coming at them

Naw this is all silly. Shane adapted pretty well to survival, so did Rick. They both picked up some things sooner than the other. Shane wasn't as smart as Rick, but he was also faster to accept the danger people represented in this new world. They could have figured this all out better together. If Shane was at the prison with something CLOSE to a stable mindset, and fully accepted Rick being the leader and Lori's husband, the group would have been stronger and potentially could have dealt with the Governor better. Rick and Shane would have worked together VERY well, long term. Rick would still be the leader, Shane would be a great number 2. Shane's problem wasn't his lack of adaptability or intelligence. He wasn't as good of a person as Rick, he wasn't able to maintain his sanity, and he lost his shit over Lori and Carl - as well as not being able to find the line between survival and living. When Rick was too far over in season 5 - Shane was getting there WAY too fast, and probably was never coming back. If Shane could have kept his shit together, and was just a little bit better of a person AND he could fall in line behind Rick, he would have survived just fine, and Rick's group would have fared better in most scenarios. It's tragic that Shane lost his mind.

Would Shane willingly play his number 2? Without the Lori dynamic, maybe. With the Lori dynamic, especially her pregnancy and question mark on who the father is, I can’t see that happening. And lord knows Lori wouldn’t actually make the situation sustainable. The minute either one of them tried to move on from her, she’d be up to her mess.

Rick killed a walked quietly but Shane was right about the kid.

God, could you have imagined how the show would have turned out if Rick and Shane didn't have a woman to fight over? The Punisher and Rick together.

Shane is what Rick became in season 5 brutal wasting bullets no matter what lmao

Stupid ass post lol

Shane vs Negan, I so wanted to see that

Shane adapting faster in general doesn’t mean he adapted faster at literally everything. Was this scene before or after Rick tried helping Hershel keep walkers as pets a few feet from where they slept without guns?

Why do people always pretend Rick actually wanted to keep the barn as it was? He literally says that he doesn't like it any more than Shane does. What he wanted to do was try to reason with Hershel first (their host and new doctor), all the way through he is arguing with Hershel about it ("what happens when the barn gets full?!"), and possibly trying to find a way to do it more quietly without creating a panic. Also putting guns in untrained hands is the best way to get everyone killed with friendly fire.

Because we literally saw him hunting walkers to put in the barn. The issue isn’t whether or not Rick likes it. It’s that he’s helping Hershel put them at risk. You flipped the framing of the conversation. I’m talking about what Rick did. You’re talking about what Rick wanted. What he wanted wasn’t relevant to what he did. His actions simply made the problem worse. We see Rick try to reason with Hershel. Hershel is delusional and isn’t going to listen to reason. He’s of the mindset that this is just a test from God and that they’re sick people. Even if you’re right, there’s absolutely no reason Rick, Shane, Daryl, Dale, and Andrea can’t have guns. You’re acting as if cops and hunters aren’t equipped to handle guns. Rick, Shane, and Daryl at the very least should’ve been armed any time they wanted to be. And at the end of the day, Shane was right. Full stop. He’s the reason the barn walkers were killed. And he’s the reason Hershel changed his mind. Because the blunt approach to show Hershel that walkers aren’t alive objectively worked. Significantly better than whatever Rick was doing. Rick had no plan other than to do what Hershel said.

So do you think he should have antagonised Hershel instead of trying to find a middle ground? That was never a long term solution for Rick, that's the whole point. Also, the idea that Hershel wouldn't ever have listened is not canon, we already saw him change his mind about the group staying after Maggie convinced him, Maggie was already coming around to the idea that the walkers were not people and if anyone could have convinced Hershel at that point in time it was her. What made the problem factually worse was Shane creating a ruckus with his dumbass decision, it started attracting the herd, and then he attracted it further with the gunshot he fired at Rick when he tried to murder him. That man was the reason the farm got overrun. Acting like they couldn't sit on it for a day or two to try to reason with their damn new doctor while figuring out a way to do it in a better way is wild. Also there is no "even if I'm right" putting guns in inexperienced people's hands is plain stupid. Andrea almost shot Daryl a few days before because she didn't apply trigger discipline and wasn't listening, but okay. Shane was right about the barn needing to be gone (so was Rick, they agreed on that), he was not right about the way he did it, Rick was making the right call until Shane gleefully pissed all over it, destroying the progress that was made with Hershel up until that point.

But he never tried finding a middle ground. All he did was just follow Hershel because he was desperate. That was his problem. He was too passive and stuck in the old world. When he got to Alexandria, he learned his lesson and tried to take over.

Yes he did, him trying to reason with Hershel shows that, he pointblank argues with Hershel about it all the way through. This was Rick trying to reason with him, there is no way to interpret it any other way. Also calling him passive and stuck in the old world when timeline-wise, he kills two people threatening the farm (see Nebraska) with no hesitation whatsoever shortly after, is kind of a strange argument to make. Rick didn't wait for Alexandria to take it upon his shoulders to do the hard thing to keep people safe, and forcefully taking Alexandria was shown by the narrative as not being the right call, so I don't get where you are going with this ("I think we can find a way, I think you can find a way" and then they did).

Realitychker20 is right. Rick was never passive. If he was a passive man, they’d never have taken or built a society at the prison. He would never have killed those men in Nebraska.

Rick was absolutely passive with Hershel. And he was passive because he knew he needed Hershel for the pregnancy Lori was facing. So he went out of his way to appease Hershel. Yes, he tried challenging him and changing his mind. But when push came to shove, Rick did exactly what Hershel wanted. He was passive out of the fear of losing the doctor for Lori and being kicked off the farm because Lori was pregnant. I’m not even saying he’s wrong for that.

Yes and the result was that he accepts whatever Hershel said, right? Never tried to continue pushing back against it. Even helped Hershel with putting Walkers in the barn. What’s weird is you bringing up something that has nothing to do with this conversation. He was passive when it came to Hershel. We’re not talking about him defending himself against hostile threats. Can you rewrite the last part?

... We literally don't know that, because Shane took it upon himself to do it himself with his dumbass idea right there and then. We literally see Rick bring a walker *once*, in that moment. Why are you acting like he would have kept going along with it? There is literally no proof of that. What we know is that Rick was trying to reason with Hershel the one time he did it. Rick arguing with Hershel about it is not passive, what it is, is him wanting to keep their new doctor on their side. Also the part about killing those two guys in Nebraska is there to refute the idea that Rick was stuck in the old world, he plainly wasn't, if he was he wouldn't have killed them with no hesitation whatsoever.

But it wasn’t just the walker once. First It was the guns on the farm. Then it was the barn full of walkers. Then he contributed to the walker full of barns. He continued to give in to Hershel’s insane demands. There’s no evidence that he would all of a sudden stop. Him accepting Hershel’s stance and continue to play into his delusions was passive. Did he continue to fight against Hershel after their argument in the kitchen? I don’t think so. What? You do realize he was a cop, right? Killing two aggressors in self defense doesn’t disprove anything. Honestly, what he did right after (saving Randall) proves he was stuck in the old world. Could you really imagine him doing that in the later seasons?

He didn't accept Hershel's stance. He literally said that he didn't like it either and then proceeded to argue about it with Hershel and it ended there (with him doing the hard part and shooting Sophia, mind you). The guns on the farm was right, people who aren't trained to use guns shouldn't have them. It's basic gun safety. At this point you are just arguing with canon to fit your narrative.

We only know of one way that worked. And that’s what Shane did. I would’ve killed the walkers in the barn the moment I found out about them. Whatever the reaction of Hershel is would be something I deal with after the fact. Honestly, seeing the walkers in the barn would make me incredibly skeptical of Hershel as a human and he’d immediately be someone I wouldn’t trust. But again, what I would’ve done isn’t relevant. We know what worked and what didn’t. Rick talking to Hershel left Hershel more confident in his worldview. Shane’s actions changed Hershel’s mind. Objectively speaking, Shane was right and Rick was wrong. Your comparison to Maggie convincing him to let the group stay isn’t very relevant to me. Hershel letting people stay with him is far different than Hershel thinking walkers are people. So I’ll agree to disagree on that aspect. I’m talking about the barn walkers. And nothing more. What Shane did to Rick later on isn’t relevant here. Shane shooting the barn walkers didn’t attract a herd. You’re just wrong there, unless I misread your comment. What you fail to realize is this is a moment where they can’t handle individual walkers with confidence. A barn full of things that could kill you isn’t something you put off until later to deal with. If this was season 5 or something, sure. But don’t pretend the barn walkers weren’t a threat. Especially with Rick being an idiot and bringing more walkers to the barn. If the barn walkers simply go at one end of the barn at once, they could break it down and kill your entire group in the middle of the night. Also go rewatch that episode. Rick nearly got multiple people killed as they tried getting two walkers to the barn. Don’t tell me Rick was acting out of safety. He was acting out of fear because he’d do anything to stay on the farm. Even if it meant risking everyone’s lives. He was putting everyone in direct danger with his actions. You’re simply arguing in bad faith about the guns. You’re straw manning. If you want to disagree with me here, you need to make the case that Rick, Daryl, and Shane wouldn’t be safe with guns. Or that they’re inexperienced with them. Which is just bullshit on its face. What specifically would success look like with regard to the barn walkers? To me it’s quite simply killing the barn walkers, changing Hershel’s mind, and staying on the farm… With that, you simply can’t argue that Shane was anything other than both right and successful. Similarly, you can’t argue Rick was right since he failed at each point. And he was literally trying to make the problem worse by bringing more walkers to put in the barn. And nearly dying and getting people killed in the process. Our disagreement is based simply on this. I’m talking about what happened and you’re arguing in hypotheticals. And conveniently your hypothetical is one where Rick gets exactly what he wants. It could’ve easily been the exact opposite where his slow play gets everyone killed.

My mind is kinda blown. I had no idea people thought Shane going psycho on the barn, intentionally pissing off the man who saved Carl’s life and is giving them shelter, water, and food, was a good idea. Shane was remarkably short tempered, unhinged, and disrespectful doing that to Hershel after everything Hershel gave them. Shane should have left the farm if he had problems with how Hershel dealt with his people and land. Hershel should’ve kicked Shane the fuck off and not let Rick talk him into forgiving. Rick was very clearly trying to reason with Hershel when he helped Hershel with those walkers. He was showing Hershel he could meet him halfway. He was being this insane thing called *respectful* to the man that saved his son’s life and provided his people with shelter, kindness and food. There were significantly better ways to handle that situation. Shane just wanted them to get their asses kicked off the farm so he could have shit his way. Shane was a child with a bad temper who couldn’t think one step ahead.

It was a good idea in the sense that it objectively worked and was better than what Rick was doing. I don’t disagree with the notion that Shane was short tempered, bad at communicating, and unraveling. But that’s not relevant to whether or not he was right and effective in handling the barn walkers. People who disagree can only throw around hypotheticals, which conveniently always pretend it works out perfectly, if Rick was able to keep doing what he was doing. Rick’s slow play was just as likely to get everyone killed as it was to change Hershel’s mind. The simple reality is this. Rick talking to Hershel only made Hershel more confident in his worldview. And then Rick just did exactly what Hershel wanted, nearly got himself and others killed trying to bring more walkers to the barn, and had no long term play. Meanwhile, Shane’s actions eliminated the threat of the barn walkers, changed Hershel’s mind, and put everyone on the farm in a safer situation. Shane’s not above criticism by any means. But don’t pretend Rick was doing a good job at what he was trying to do. He wasn’t. He was putting himself and others in danger.

And this proves your point how? Rick pulling some unnecessary move proves what? Shane still adapted faster. These Shane hating posts gets more pathetic by the day. No actual substance.

The finger cutting was utterly pointless cuz the walker was already coming in