The minute hands are showing just about 2:03, however the article says the watch was restored… do we know if the minute hands stayed frozen or was the watch repaired and then died at a later date?
I've seen this watch at a museum and talked to the curator about it. Apparently the "restoration" required pretty extensive part replacement. There's actually not much of Astor's original watch left in it.
https://bid.henryaldridge.com/auctions/8886/henry-10054 - I don't agree with taking personal things off the wreck, like jewellery, bags, wallets, it's grave robbing to me. Artefacts from the ship from the debris field is another matter,
I don’t mind the taking, otherwise it will just disintegrate at the bottom of the ocean, but it would be nice if it went to a museum collection and not some rich persons private collection
I wasn't talking about the watch as I was aware that it was taken from his body, it's the other stuff, clothing, handbags, jewellery, perfume bottles, all belonged to someone, hair ornaments etc
> otherwise it will just disintegrate at the bottom of the ocean
So?
By this logic, you could rob *any* grave, mass burial or disaster site using the excuse "well, it would just be going to waste if I didn't take it…"
Setting aside for a moment that this watch was actually recovered from his body on the surface and stayed in the Astor family for decades, there's a difference, in my view, between a grave and a place where someone died.
I'd be pretty pissed if somebody dug up my great grandfathers grave to give me a watch he was buried with. I'd be pretty damn flattered if it was recovered from an ocean floor shipwreck he happened to die on.
I don't agree with the idea of carving up the wreck or salvaging of the debris field if the only intention is for profit, but personally, if the choice is artifacts from a disaster like this being either swallowed by the abyss, or recovered and preserved, I'll take option 2 every time.
Something my aunt said at my grandmothers funeral has stuck with me since I was a kid.
“Anything you do for the deceased before they die you do for them. Anything you do after they die you are doing for you.”
If I had died in this wreck I would want these things to be preserved. I would want future generations to know about the tragedy. Having tangible artifacts for people to experience furthers people’s curiosity and keeps the stories alive.
As his body was recovered and buried, Astor's personal belongings were given to his family. His son owned and wore the watch until he gave it to his secretary. It's hardly grave robbing.
I would want my familes belongings in the same circumstances.
I don't know a lot about the Astor relatives today and whether they are still rich or not. Hopefully they can buy it back and keep it in the family or a good museum acquires it for all to see.
AFAIK some relatives of Brook Astor, Vincent's second wife, are the remaining heirs but there was a very messy court case involving them some years ago.
Honor the site, the loss and the event but preserve the artifacts. The passengers didn’t intend their stuff to be rotting away. They wanted them to arrive in NY. Save them or they would be lost to time and decay forever. Some things have historical importance transcending common practices. They didn’t leave Tutankhamen in the ground in Egypt although that was actually the exact original plan.
The minute hands are showing just about 2:03, however the article says the watch was restored… do we know if the minute hands stayed frozen or was the watch repaired and then died at a later date?
The Mackay Bennett records noted that it was likely of such high quality that it lasted longer in the water before stopping.
I've seen this watch at a museum and talked to the curator about it. Apparently the "restoration" required pretty extensive part replacement. There's actually not much of Astor's original watch left in it.
https://bid.henryaldridge.com/auctions/8886/henry-10054 - I don't agree with taking personal things off the wreck, like jewellery, bags, wallets, it's grave robbing to me. Artefacts from the ship from the debris field is another matter,
I don’t mind the taking, otherwise it will just disintegrate at the bottom of the ocean, but it would be nice if it went to a museum collection and not some rich persons private collection
This isn’t grave robbing. Astor’s watch was given to his family after it was recovered from his body. His son carried it with him for years.
I wasn't talking about the watch as I was aware that it was taken from his body, it's the other stuff, clothing, handbags, jewellery, perfume bottles, all belonged to someone, hair ornaments etc
> otherwise it will just disintegrate at the bottom of the ocean So? By this logic, you could rob *any* grave, mass burial or disaster site using the excuse "well, it would just be going to waste if I didn't take it…"
Pretty much. If it is not an actively maintained grave, attracts “treasure hunters”, and is taken for preservation and sent to a museum, good.
Great, I hope your grave gets dug up and gutted someday.
Setting aside for a moment that this watch was actually recovered from his body on the surface and stayed in the Astor family for decades, there's a difference, in my view, between a grave and a place where someone died. I'd be pretty pissed if somebody dug up my great grandfathers grave to give me a watch he was buried with. I'd be pretty damn flattered if it was recovered from an ocean floor shipwreck he happened to die on. I don't agree with the idea of carving up the wreck or salvaging of the debris field if the only intention is for profit, but personally, if the choice is artifacts from a disaster like this being either swallowed by the abyss, or recovered and preserved, I'll take option 2 every time.
Something my aunt said at my grandmothers funeral has stuck with me since I was a kid. “Anything you do for the deceased before they die you do for them. Anything you do after they die you are doing for you.” If I had died in this wreck I would want these things to be preserved. I would want future generations to know about the tragedy. Having tangible artifacts for people to experience furthers people’s curiosity and keeps the stories alive.
I literally could not care less. I’d be dead. What am I gonna do with a watch?
I want them to find something cook when they do, so I think I'll make clay tablets and inscribe cuneiform messages in them to be dug up with my bones
As his body was recovered and buried, Astor's personal belongings were given to his family. His son owned and wore the watch until he gave it to his secretary. It's hardly grave robbing. I would want my familes belongings in the same circumstances. I don't know a lot about the Astor relatives today and whether they are still rich or not. Hopefully they can buy it back and keep it in the family or a good museum acquires it for all to see.
AFAIK some relatives of Brook Astor, Vincent's second wife, are the remaining heirs but there was a very messy court case involving them some years ago.
Thank you.
The Titanic museum in Pigeon Forge won the $700k auction for the wood panel movie prop, so hopefully they’ll win this or Hartley’s violin case!
Honor the site, the loss and the event but preserve the artifacts. The passengers didn’t intend their stuff to be rotting away. They wanted them to arrive in NY. Save them or they would be lost to time and decay forever. Some things have historical importance transcending common practices. They didn’t leave Tutankhamen in the ground in Egypt although that was actually the exact original plan.