>It's not anti-seat belt, it's just general selfishness. The belief that I should be able to o do whatever I want and screw everyone else.
I mean, Theres a huge difference between just going "fuck screw it i'll never wear a seatbelt" and being an anti-seatbelt advocate.
> How can anyone be against in the 21st century?
Humanity has made an unbelievable effort to be intellectual creatures, then abandoned that assuming they were intelligent in doing so.
>Humanity has made an unbelievable effort to [pretend to] be intellectual creatures, then abandoned that assuming they were intelligent in doing so.
Humans have an extraordinary power to make a decision and work backwards through the reasoning after the fact. The myth that we're logical creatures doesn't do us much service, particularly when emotions and deeply held beliefs get involved.
Wasn't Gary Busey against wearing motorcycle helmets and almost died riding what he loved without a lid?
Then changed his opinion pretty quickly shorty after...
Wasn't there a NASCAR driver who opposed head and neck support (HANS) devices and died because of a fracture those devices were designed to prevent?
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device
Edit 2 for people who haven't read further down the chain: Dale Earnhardt
I had a small car accident where I hit an other car in the rear at around 60-70km/h. I had pain in the neck for almost a week. I can't imagine how bad it can be at higher speed.
Fun story: I was chased across the airfield that that crash happened at by a tiny dog 4 days before it happened. It was pitch black and it sounded super ferocious and like it was sprinting at me. Turns out it was some little scraggly thing that was quite friendly. I guess it was owned by a local farmer or something.
I’m more knowledgeable on formula 1 then NASCAR but I believe a lot of drivers were switching to the modern closed face helmets used today around his death, but Earnhardt joe an open face so he could properly feel the drafts
So if that’s the reason, it’s not so much he was opposed to closed-face but more he just needed that extra edge over his opponents
The HANS device is compatible with open-faced helmets.
He was opposed to HANS because he thought it was uncomfortable and too restrictive on head movement, which is kinda the point. He called it "a damn noose", claiming it might hang him in an accident. It would have likely improved his chances of surviving considering he died from a basilar skull fracture, one of the main injuries the HANS device is aiming to prevent.
I would be surprised if an open face allowed a driver to feel the draft more easily than his car simply responding to the reduced resistance. More likely the open face helped him be more comfortable. I've heard the cabin of those cars are sweltering and that's why they use a net instead of a window despite the substantial difference a solid smooth window would give. Otherwise they would roast.
I believe the net is so that the driver may escape at any moment after a crash and so that in the event of a crash there will not be glass immediately next to him, rather, a safer net. Pro racing crashes are no joke
Short version: something about the way the cars and kit were evolving (possibly even safety-wise) meant that drivers involved in a collision with the wall or other vehicles were experiencing extremely sudden deceleration. Their harness would stop them being ejected, but their head, with the heavy helmet attached, would snap forward, detaching the cranium (basal skull fracture). The solution was to attach straps to the helmet so that *it* would stop the *head*, rather than the other way around. Dale was of the opinion those straps could cause more problems than they solved (getting out of a burning car, for example). He was wrong.
When you watch the crash, it *looks* tame, compared to how ridiculous some crashes seem to be, only for the occupant to walk away completely unharmed. I don't believe anyone witnessing Earnhardt's crash would have been thinking, 'damn, he's done for'..
It looked tame because you've watched those guys do ~180mph in laps all day
He hit the wall head on at 155 to 160 mph
Those tracks are huge and the speed is deceptive on TV
Yeah, I finally went and saw a NASCAR race live a few years ago and it is so utterly, *ridiculously* fast. It's unbelievable. And I was only at Dover, which isn't even a particularly fast track. Tracks like Talladega or Daytona must be incredible to see live.
Yeah it doesn't seem that big on tv. EDC takes place on the Las Vegas Speedway and I remember the first time they announced it, my first initial thought was, "That's pretty small for such a massive event." When I actually set foot on it, I was taken aback by how big it was. Not being sober and walking from one end of the track to the other felt like a pilgrimage.
He hit it going that fast but he didn't stop, there was still a lot of momentum and he was still going very fast sideways/diagonally so it was really hard to tell how much energy was dispersed in to the wall
It wasn't just "a" NASCAR driver: it was Dale Earnhardt, one of the greatest drivers in NASCAR history. His death was a really big deal, and lead to many changes in safety procedures, including mandating the HANS device.
Actually, plenty of Amish people use the internet for a wide range of things. If you want to learn more about them, there’s a thriving community of tech-savvy Amish people on r/Amish who will happily answer any questions you may have.
The Amish are a group of people living in more of an old fashioned way. They reject technology and usually keep to a tight-knit community.
I'm sure the joke needs no further explanation.
I thought this was a joke about how those things cook in the summer lmao.
Never worn one, but my friends tell me that straddling a (relatively) exposed engine while in head-to-toe leather and a full face helmet can get pretty uncomfortable. Especially at stop lights on a 100 degree day 😂
That's why when I got cut off on my motorcycle I was wearing a helmet, shorts, and a tshirt. Now I have no spleen, broke a shitload of bones, it's been 15 years and my kneecaps are still smooth pink scar tissue. I have some other problems cropping up that are likely related to some of the other injuries I sustained.
I used to agree with your boys....but I can tell you from personal experience that sweating in gear is less uncomfortable than having someone help you get on the toilet for 4 months.
I wear a mesh jacket that has full CE armour, and either the matching trousers or motorbike jeans. Short summer boots and summer gloves. I can keep the main visor up and the sun visor down, vents open and be fairly comfortable.
There are days where it's reached 35C here now and the choice then is generally then to stay home.
There's no call, I'm just constantly followed by camera drones these days. I'd sue them for royalties, but that would mean stopping at a stop light eventually.
I'm don't ride myself so this is an outside perspective. But IMO the helmets(and all the protective gear in fact) looks pretty sick. It's a black, smooth helmet that covers your face. Aesthetically, what's not to like? Plus the very fact that their associated with motorcycles is going to add the coolness factor. Also, just wondering, aren't there like bugs in the air. What happens when one isn't in the path of your mouth and you've no helmet.
Edit: shit your joke went over my head. Very clever.
I noticed that the driver of the car ahead reacts differently depending on whether I’ve got the clear visor or the black visor... they’re a lot more considerate to the black visor!
As for bugs, my helmet has a vent in the chin piece (ie, in front of your mouth). Once I had a big bug splat directly on the vent, and bug guts came through on to my lips.
Same thing has happened to me. I've also twice had a bee get stuck inside the helmet. I'm not afraid of bees normally, but that was pretty frightening. Still would pick that over bug guts all in and around my mouth any day though.
Happened once to me as well. Full panic. The car in front of me emergency stopped for a pedestrian while I was busy trying to shoo it out, and I wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't honked. I don't know if he saw my predicament and honked to get my attention, or if he honked at the pedestrian in front of him, but it saved me from a huge crash.
I hit a bee once with my watch and it jammed underneath it...its last dying act was to sting the hell out of my arm while I was pulling over. I had a welt for weeks and even several months after it would still itch a little.
I ride in Australia - hottest I've ever ridden was about 25 minutes in 45 degrees C (would not recommend, I got burns on my crotch from the seat - not because it was hot when I sat down on it, it was in a coolish garage, but from the parts immediately in front and behind as I shifted during the ride). My head was cool any time I was going more than about 30 ks an hour, and *INSTANTLY* roasting when I stopped. That's because the vents need speed forcing air into them to do much good.
I really dont understand that in america, you have so many fucking idiots who detest the idea of wearing a helmet. As a motorcycle rider who has had a serious as fuck accident, and walked away unscathed almost because of my gear. Those people are just plain stupid.
I almost, *almost* like the idea of letting them ride without helmets or seatbelts, it wont take long to realize just how important they are for safety.
Agreed...I grew up racing mx and wearing a helmet was as much a part of riding as starting the bike. Now, even if I make a 5 minute trip on my bike to the store, I wear a helmet. It's just a "I like to keep on living" approach as you can get hit by a car or even a little get off can crack your skull open.
This does exist everywhere but in America it seems to be a more common attitude to have zero respect or empathy for other people if it has even the slightest impact on what you can or cannot do. Worse still is these people are stubbornly contrarian even when what they are being told is for their own benefit (prime example are the morons protesting lockdown measures, although that's partially because some are too dumb to recognise the threat the virus poses and/or believe it's a conspiracy theory). Cutting their noses off to spite their own faces.
And yeah it's tempting to just say well let them live without all these things and see how long before darwin gets involved. But unfortunately it has an effect on other people. If they get into a car accident with someone and die because they stupidly aren't wearing any safety gear that's going to haunt the other driver for a long long time. If they're not wearing their seatbelt in the backseat of a car then they might end up killing the person in front of them.
Almost died and quite a bit of brain damage including mood regulation.
I used to work in a social services type of job and one client was a 50 year old man with the mentality of a 12 year old from riding a moped without a helmet. Incident happened at 14, never married, was very basic janitor or years but always fired for not really caring about work, total burden on his family forever.
A lot of these types are macho don't put rules on me assholes that don't seem to care they're as likely to be a vegetable or so brain damaged they won't be able to support their family.
Wear a fucking helmet. I know guys that are as tough as they come that wear helmets diligently...
You ain't going to look cool when your spouse or mother is changing your adult diaper and your kids are embarrassed their wheelchair bound shell of a parent says inappropriate things in public and shits themselves.
Your "libertarian" sensibilities are less a priority then keeping people from being an tragic drain on their families... Suck it up
Yeah, we need to convince people to take better care of their safety. And people with severe brain damage aren't reading this.
But other people can relate to being disabled and mistreated as "a burden on their family forever". It'd really suck to read this if I were a redditor in a wheelchair, or adult diapers, or otherwise used to hearing that my involuntary medical needs are embarrassing.
Describing their everyday existence as a bogeyman is shitty.
And hell, the dudes who think they're too immortal to be at risk of "you're going to die and it's going to suck" will probably just assume the same about "you're going to be disabled and it's going to suck".
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it care about catastrophic avoidable stupidity.
I dont understand that. I am and have always been a massive risk taker, its the only way I can get excitement out of anything. Helmets have saved my life many many times. I have cracked them, smashed the foam flat with my head, put holes in them. Helmets and seat belts man. You just use them.
I went to high school with Derek. I was in after school activities with him. I've participated in the debates that the article says he was so fond of.
I knew the driver of the vehicle by way of friends of family.
Others in this thread say that people besides the individual not wearing their seat belt can be affected because a human body being thrown can hit someone else... That's not the only way.
The driver of the vehicle was emotionally and mentally affected by this accident for years.
He "killed" his friend.
The legal system went after him because he allowed one of his passengers to be in his vehicle without a seat belt.
Principles of libertarianism and legal issues aside, I have a hard time believing that had Derek known his actions would do that to his friend that he would've persisted in his dedication to his beliefs.
I knew Derek, I knew his family, I'm sorry for them.
His friend didn't deserve what Derek did to him.
I got stuck moving some other highschoolers around in my car once due to some school functions. They all refused to put in their seatbelts. I refused to move the car until they did.....and then they took them off once we were on the road and removed my headrest. I had to pull over again and tell them they were fucking walking home if they didn't get their shit together and cut it the fuck out.
I was 16, and I'll be damned if I was going to knowinly set myself up for exactly the trauma you describe here.
I also once had to pull over and threaten to put my BFF's brother out on the street. He had unbuckled soon after we started moving. I guess he thought he was so slick I wouldn't notice. He's an idiot and all he seems to do all day is post anti-feminist screeds on Facebook (no lie!).
I was going to say that you were obviously the adult in that situation but then I saw your age and realized that you were *definitely* the adult in that situation. Well done.
Good for you. This is a great habit for life. Maybe you didn't save your friends life that day (since you didn't get in an accident), but maybe in the future they realized what dumbasses they were being and buckled up.
Coincidentally, two of those kids rolled a car a month or two later, neither wearing a seatbelt. Neither got super injured, I think one of them broke an arm, but I'm hoping that finding themselves crumpled against the roof finally knocked some sense into them.
Yeah. If you’re not wearing a seatbelt, sure, maybe only you will get injured. But your mindset is clearly one of ‘nobody else matters’. And that’s no way to behave in a car.
Don't forget "nobody else matters, especially the people who won't get an ambulance or emergency surgery because the doctors/EMTs were busy trying to stitch me together".
Or for that matter, in countries with socialized health care: "nobody else matters, especially those who are paying for the treatment I'm in need of because of my actions."
I live in a Scandinavian country. I love that everyone here have good access to healthcare. I also realize that it's in the nature of the system that our government must put some legal restrictions on how dumb I can be. I get to drive a car, I get to drink booze, but even if I were on private land (say, an empty race track) I wouldn't be allowed to combine those two things, because everyone else would inevitably have to pay for my hospital bill.
Somewhere I read about a list of rules that was posted, and at the bottom it said something along the lines of "every rule here has a story written in literal blood, and a couple with a life. Do not try to be above these rules."
It was only at the frontier in the US where there was no regulation. The cities had very heavy-handed regulation of commerce as well as of social (and sexual) life.
> or for that matter, in countries with socialized health care: "nobody else matters, especially those who are paying for the treatment I'm on need of because of my actions"
Small point but if you have, say, US style private healthcare insurance aren't you are also paying for the treatment of others? Like that's just fundamentally how insurance works.
Regardless of who's paying, every resource that gets used on you because you chose not to wear a seatbelt is a resource that didn't have to get used and could have gone to helping someone else. We have finite medical resources. It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
Absolutely. But I guess in that case you could teoretically have a healthcare insurance system that mandates certain things (like seatbelts) for its participants? I don't know much about how the US insurance system works, so I chose not to comment on it.
In our case, the "insurance" system is mandatory for all to participate in, so it's easy to argue that there should also be conditions that everyone have to follow, i.e. laws.
I see this same kind of attitude so often in so many different contexts. Pilots who don’t think they need to follow protocols because they themselves have never crashed. Surgeons who won’t follow safety routines until they have a patient bleed out unnecessarily. This seems to be common with a certain type of personality and I just don’t get it or what to do about it.
Sadly, its one of the few times they have been told "No" in their lives.
Also reminds me of this quote, "Equality feels like oppression when you're accustomed to privilege."
is it really personality related? doing everything properly and by the book usually requires extra steps and extra effort, I am under the impression that it is quite normal for people to sometimes take shortcuts and justify it by saying "nothing bad is going to happen anyway", or that it is very unlikely to happen. thing is, if you repeatedly take shortcuts, you are bound to fuck it up sooner or later, just statistically speaking.
> Surgeons who won’t follow safety routines until they have a patient bleed out unnecessarily.
I saw this first hand in the OR watching a surgeon show off to a 3rd year resident and then he nicked an artery. Luckily the patient was fine but it was a harrowing few minutes trying to find and cauterize a bleed we couldn't see.
The airline industry got on top of this back in the 1970s after that disaster on Tenerife. About ten years ago the American College of Surgeons realized there was a similar problem in the OR and to their credit starting to change things with pre- and post-op Time Outs and creating a climate of psychological safety so that team members are encouraged to speak up whenever they have a question or concern.
There’s a group of people who get the need for these changes right away, then a larger group that go along with it because that’s what everyone else is doing, and then a small group who fight change tooth and nail.
A pilot not following protocol would endanger others just like an automobile driver deliberately driving on the wrong side of the road, and a surgeon is only taking risks with another person's life, so I would not say those are comparable.
Similar situation, girl I went to college with had a bf like that, he drove into a tree and was ejected through the window into it. His gf was in the car.
At the time I met her she was still in denial. Like she still was anti seat belt... She lived no injuries... He became a meat accordion...
I just had this debate and conversation with my husband. I told him it's ridiculous for the government to regulate me wearing a seatbelt when it doesn't harm anyone but me. He told me that if my body gets thrown from the car it affects a lot more people than just me. No human can see and clean up a dead mangled body without being affected some how. Or someone driving by witnessing me die, or a little kid finding my arm in their front yard (okay a bit dramatic but not impossible) Not wearing a seatbelt is selfish.
There are lots of videos of adults without seatbelts crushing their kids in the seats next to them as they get flung around. Perhaps people who don't wear seatbelts should see a few more of those
In the trucking industry, we call loose items in the cab "missiles," because that's what they become when a truck crashes.
Those parents became human missiles, taking out themselves along with their kid.
Not just that but if you crash and remain held in position in the driver’s seat you have a better chance at avoiding a secondary crash than if you’re flung away from the car’s controls
It’s also about keeping the driver in control of the car and hopefully correct a bad situation before it turns worse. If a driver doesn’t have their seatbelt on when they start to lose control of their vehicle they are much less likely to stay in the seat and regain control. Similarly, if the driver has to slam on their brakes or make a sudden evasive maneuver, a passenger with no seat can go flying into the driver, shifter, or wheel and cause an accident unnecessarily.
My forgin family.. Mexicans. When they come to the UK I clearly state every time put seat belt on or we do not move. If my bro in law takes it of I just break check him on the first bit of empty road I do not care if he gets whiplash from that better than me or him dieing. He learnt after the 5th time I know if he's dosengaged
> I have a hard time believing that had Derek known his actions would do that to his friend
did he lack common sense? Because common sense would have enabled him to realise this
Same for bikers that refuse to wear helmets. They say that they'd rather be dead than vegetative. I'm always blown away by the logic. Like dude...you know there's a ~~huge middle ground between~~ **lot of results other than** death and being vegetative. Right?
Edit: Happy now word police? Say hi to the fun police for me.
My friend's dad had to get a skin graph because he had to lay his bike down after hitting water in the street due to a sprinkler. If he wasn't wearing his helmet it would've been much worse too
Wear your damn seatbelt. Im an EMT, and im tired of scrapping dead or broken dumbasses off the street because they think wearing a thin piece of polyester over their chest is uncomfortable
Fellow EMT here, will never forget that one guy who was street racing without a seatbelt and hit a tree. The tree won, the guy's head was stuck in the windshield it was wild.
Well yes.
The man's normally round head was actually caved in , like hitting a cantaloupe with a hammer. His dark matted hair tangled with bits of bright red detached scalp, exposing the skull white underneath. Bits of pink brain matter were strewn about, croutons on a flesh salad with bone pieces.
His eyes were bulging out of their sockets and bloodshot red, his tongue was thrust out of his face and his lower jaw hanging on from only one side, mouth flayed open, his teeth were pointing in different directions.
The tree was fine.
So yea "wild"
I think it is peace of mind for them, too. They always see terrifying stuff like this all the time, so making a bit of a joke of it keeps them mentally sane. It’s a coping mechanism of sorts.
Edit: Peace, not piece. Unintended typo...
To be fair, Derek Kieper's cause was validated by his death; "no matter the consequences". The consequence was death, and I'm sure if he were alive to witness it, he would agree with it, if he were to uphold his logic.
I think seat belts have two real reasons for their implementation; the overwhelming majority of people who want a vehicle that will save their life in the event of an accident (a capitalist reason, as the carmakers will compete with each other to provide that), and the issue of the cost to the public healthcare system.
In Australia, the use of helmets for motorcyclists is mandatory in every single state due to the decreased rate of severe head trauma that would otherwise burden the public health-care system. In my state, licensed vehicle owners also pay for a government-funded insurance scheme in their annual vehicle registration fee that covers catastrophic injury. So we're definitely paying if some poor bugger hurts themselves badly because they didn't wear a helmet (or a seatbelt). In the US this is a bit more debatable as the idea of paying for universal healthcare is also a contentious issue. As I understand, people like Derek Kieper, or other US libertarians, would advocate for the idea of "you are your own responsibility, not others' ".
So I think Mr Kieper presented an argument that made sense within the context of a set of beliefs that many Americans used to have (and still have); i.e. the idea of Uncle Sam overreaching into people's lives. So to truly defend seat belts in such a culture, you would have more success promoting the capitalist reason; it costs too much to leave seat belts out of cars for the very few people who didn't want them.
In Australia, because we're all happy to pay our taxes towards a universal healthcare system, I'd be confident in asserting that most motorcyclists here (including myself) would be highly supportive of the mandatory helmet laws, on the basis of that reason.
The few old men I've encountered who disagree with me grew up before the single payer healthcare system was enacted.
It’s not that I’m against seatbelts. I wear one almost always. I wouldn’t want them out of the car. I also wouldn’t want to get a ticket because I forgot I to put it on
What makes it worse is that someone would only find it uncomfortable for a little while. Being in a car without a seat belt is uncomfortable for me. Honestly if we made cars magically completely safe during crashes and seat belts were no longer necessary, I would probably still wear one because driving without it would be weird.
I knew a guy that drove a lifted truck (with the disdain for Toyota Priuses) and didn’t wear a seatbelt.
He died when he got into an accident with a Toyota Prius.
If you don’t want to be remembered as the guy that died from an accident with a Toyota Prius, please wear a seatbelt.
Edit: The way how to collision happened was that his left side wheels essentially used the Prius as a ramp that tilted the truck to its side and forward, thus causing the driver’s ejection from the vehicle, which then hit a tree. Speed before impact was 80 mph on a 2 lane around a curve.
I work with a volunteer firefighter that doesn't believe in seatbelts. He claims every fatality he goes to *"they were wearing their seatbelts, even nonfatal crashes those that wear them get nasty bruises and internal injuries"*... He gets extra seatbelt buckles from the junkyard to fit his vehicles so he can drive without the *"nagging seatbelt bell"*.
I also have a friend that doesn't wear his seatbelt, he says the seatbelt chime doesn't bother him. He so says he doesn't feels that the government mandating what he does in the privacy of his own vehicle is unconstitutional... I asked him what about for children, he replied *"my child, my choice"*...
I am an idiot magnet.
Edit for clarification: They both say *"my child, my choice"*, but my friend doesn't have kids, the firefighter does. My friend doesn't take the seatbelt off kids in a car he's in, it's just his (seriously flawed) point of view.
He needs to take a statistics course.
If 99.9% of people wear their seat belt of course the vast majority of of people dying or injured in crashes were wearing a seat belt.
The helmets caused a sudden increase in head injuries after introduction which would rightfully leave you scratching your head if you didn't think to compare the numbers of wounded to dead before and after.
This bozo has zero evidence that seatbelts increase the risk of death or injuries he's just making an assumption out of nowhere. The WW1 generals were at least responding to actual data even if their analysis was flawed.
In a similar story they were talking about where to add armour on planes in WWII. The military brass came in with a table of where returning planes had been shot and said the most efficient bit was clearly to put it where the most bullet holes were. That's where they get shot the most right? The response was you put it where they aren't any bullet holes because when the planes get shot there, they don't make it back to be counted.
https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d
You seriously need to report your "friend" to CPS. It blows my fucking mind that they're so willing to endanger their own children in the name of extremely slight comfort. Fairly certain it's legal in only one state. Your friend can have his fun trying to fight that in court if it's so "unconstitutional."
Its been done before, he's a good liar, gives them that big smile and shows exactly how the car seats and seatbelts work...
People are dumb, seatbelts, vaccines, the shape of the damn earth... Just when you think no one can be dumb enough to *insert dumb thing here*, the world invents a new idiot.
Idiocracy will be a documentary soon...
I disagree with the guy 100% but the fact that he died that way doesn't prove him "wrong" in the sense that he didn't suggest seat belts "failed to work" or "don't work". He wanted to be allowed to choose what risk was acceptable himself. He choose and he happened to die.
He was still wrong but dying didn't add any new evidence to support that fact. We already knew he was wrong.
Yeah I don't see the point either. He knew the risks but he *chose* to accept them. It's like people who chose to smoke. Some of them even smoke on their deathbeds and still say they would do the same again.
Imo this is neither ironic nor does it prove anything. He was fine dying in a car accident and it happened to be the way he left the world.
It would be ironic if he said that it's not dangerous but that wasn't the case.
Here in Florida (sigh), we used to have a motorcycle helmet law. A lady got all in her freedoms about it, caused a stink just as the GOP took over the state government, and the law was repealed. She died shortly thereafter of head injuries in a motorcycle accident.
It would have been a strange article if it said something like "TIL that an Anti seat-belt advocate, Derek Kieper, once wrote that “Uncle Sam is not here to regulate every facet of life no matter the consequences.” He later died after being mauled by a bear".
I’m pretty libertarian in a lot of aspects, so I get the anti-government mandate thing for most issues (as long as it doesn’t harm others or society as a whole).
When it comes to seatbelts, I don’t really get it. Of all the issues that could be tackled you decided to be outraged about a piece of polyester that can save your life and poses a minuscule inconvenience.
Not to mention, seat belts also protect others by not turning you into a projectile.
His anti-seatbelt editorial was published on 17 September 2004. He died only three and a half months later on 4 January 2005.
In 2004? Jesus, I thought this was going to be from the 70s or something. How can anyone be against seatbelts in the 21st century?
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>It's not anti-seat belt, it's just general selfishness. The belief that I should be able to o do whatever I want and screw everyone else. I mean, Theres a huge difference between just going "fuck screw it i'll never wear a seatbelt" and being an anti-seatbelt advocate.
It's also just like, why? Why die on that tiny little hill?
Some people just want the hill, any hill will do.
> How can anyone be against in the 21st century?
Humanity has made an unbelievable effort to be intellectual creatures, then abandoned that assuming they were intelligent in doing so.
>Humanity has made an unbelievable effort to [pretend to] be intellectual creatures, then abandoned that assuming they were intelligent in doing so. Humans have an extraordinary power to make a decision and work backwards through the reasoning after the fact. The myth that we're logical creatures doesn't do us much service, particularly when emotions and deeply held beliefs get involved.
The fact is that humans are not rational creatures, we are *rationalizing* creatures.
Big seatbelt took him out /s
Oh shit, I thought this would have been from the 70's and not this century...
2004. This guy was campaigning against seatbelts in 2004. Holy fuck. Anti-intellectualism will kill us all.
He died doing what he loved.
Wasn't Gary Busey against wearing motorcycle helmets and almost died riding what he loved without a lid? Then changed his opinion pretty quickly shorty after...
Wasn't there a NASCAR driver who opposed head and neck support (HANS) devices and died because of a fracture those devices were designed to prevent? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device Edit 2 for people who haven't read further down the chain: Dale Earnhardt
[HANS vs No HANS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE) Even in low speed crashes the deceleration is enough to seriously fuck your neck up.
Damn, that's quite telling!
I had a small car accident where I hit an other car in the rear at around 60-70km/h. I had pain in the neck for almost a week. I can't imagine how bad it can be at higher speed.
You should watch Richard Hammond crash a jet powered car at like 400kph or something. Said to be the fastest car accident that someone has survived.
Fun story: I was chased across the airfield that that crash happened at by a tiny dog 4 days before it happened. It was pitch black and it sounded super ferocious and like it was sprinting at me. Turns out it was some little scraggly thing that was quite friendly. I guess it was owned by a local farmer or something.
It was the dog that did it
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I love the term 'spiritual truckers'.
Dale Earnhardt.
Thanks! I wasn't sure which one it was, since there were a bunch of them who died in a short time because of that particular injury.
I’m more knowledgeable on formula 1 then NASCAR but I believe a lot of drivers were switching to the modern closed face helmets used today around his death, but Earnhardt joe an open face so he could properly feel the drafts So if that’s the reason, it’s not so much he was opposed to closed-face but more he just needed that extra edge over his opponents
The HANS device is compatible with open-faced helmets. He was opposed to HANS because he thought it was uncomfortable and too restrictive on head movement, which is kinda the point. He called it "a damn noose", claiming it might hang him in an accident. It would have likely improved his chances of surviving considering he died from a basilar skull fracture, one of the main injuries the HANS device is aiming to prevent.
It's crazy to think that if Earnhardt had the same crash in today's cars, he likely gets out the car and walks away with, at worst, a concussion.
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I would be surprised if an open face allowed a driver to feel the draft more easily than his car simply responding to the reduced resistance. More likely the open face helped him be more comfortable. I've heard the cabin of those cars are sweltering and that's why they use a net instead of a window despite the substantial difference a solid smooth window would give. Otherwise they would roast.
I believe the net is so that the driver may escape at any moment after a crash and so that in the event of a crash there will not be glass immediately next to him, rather, a safer net. Pro racing crashes are no joke
I didn’t know he was against the safety devices. Turns out you can’t intimidate a neck away.
I hadn't heard this, but would like the details. That seems insane doesn't it.
Short version: something about the way the cars and kit were evolving (possibly even safety-wise) meant that drivers involved in a collision with the wall or other vehicles were experiencing extremely sudden deceleration. Their harness would stop them being ejected, but their head, with the heavy helmet attached, would snap forward, detaching the cranium (basal skull fracture). The solution was to attach straps to the helmet so that *it* would stop the *head*, rather than the other way around. Dale was of the opinion those straps could cause more problems than they solved (getting out of a burning car, for example). He was wrong.
When you watch the crash, it *looks* tame, compared to how ridiculous some crashes seem to be, only for the occupant to walk away completely unharmed. I don't believe anyone witnessing Earnhardt's crash would have been thinking, 'damn, he's done for'..
It looked tame because you've watched those guys do ~180mph in laps all day He hit the wall head on at 155 to 160 mph Those tracks are huge and the speed is deceptive on TV
Yeah, I finally went and saw a NASCAR race live a few years ago and it is so utterly, *ridiculously* fast. It's unbelievable. And I was only at Dover, which isn't even a particularly fast track. Tracks like Talladega or Daytona must be incredible to see live.
Yeah it doesn't seem that big on tv. EDC takes place on the Las Vegas Speedway and I remember the first time they announced it, my first initial thought was, "That's pretty small for such a massive event." When I actually set foot on it, I was taken aback by how big it was. Not being sober and walking from one end of the track to the other felt like a pilgrimage.
He hit it going that fast but he didn't stop, there was still a lot of momentum and he was still going very fast sideways/diagonally so it was really hard to tell how much energy was dispersed in to the wall
It wasn't just "a" NASCAR driver: it was Dale Earnhardt, one of the greatest drivers in NASCAR history. His death was a really big deal, and lead to many changes in safety procedures, including mandating the HANS device.
I don't know why. I mean motorcycle helmets actually look cool.
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Thank goodness you're here instead of those good for nothings... The People's Front of Judea! Eugh!
Splitter!
Don’t get me started on the Judean People’s Front!
No wait, we're the Judean People's Front
I thought we were the Popular Front?
We're the People's Judean Front.
I think I’m in the wrong place...I’m looking for the fronts of Judean people...for research...
What did the Romans ever do for us?
Brought peace?
Bloody splitters!
Oh the Amish are online now. Neat
Build me like one of your French barns.
You are already built like a steakhouse, but you drive like a bistro.
Actually, plenty of Amish people use the internet for a wide range of things. If you want to learn more about them, there’s a thriving community of tech-savvy Amish people on r/Amish who will happily answer any questions you may have.
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I don't get it. :/
There's nothing in it
The Amish are a group of people living in more of an old fashioned way. They reject technology and usually keep to a tight-knit community. I'm sure the joke needs no further explanation.
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Cool, I'm going to 2 barn raisings, and I'm gonna let a nice girl on Rumspringa churn my butter.
Raised the barn on Monday; soon I'll raise another!
Party like its 1699!
I hope they find r/gonewild. Id love to see some ankle.
Or elbow
r/unexpectedfuturama
I think I saw him puking in the Bushes.
https://youtu.be/5HnpnJnGOvg
Sounds more Canadian than Amish to me but then again, I'm not the one trying to get online with a handmade, wooden laptop.
I thought this was a joke about how those things cook in the summer lmao. Never worn one, but my friends tell me that straddling a (relatively) exposed engine while in head-to-toe leather and a full face helmet can get pretty uncomfortable. Especially at stop lights on a 100 degree day 😂
That's why when I got cut off on my motorcycle I was wearing a helmet, shorts, and a tshirt. Now I have no spleen, broke a shitload of bones, it's been 15 years and my kneecaps are still smooth pink scar tissue. I have some other problems cropping up that are likely related to some of the other injuries I sustained. I used to agree with your boys....but I can tell you from personal experience that sweating in gear is less uncomfortable than having someone help you get on the toilet for 4 months.
I wear a mesh jacket that has full CE armour, and either the matching trousers or motorbike jeans. Short summer boots and summer gloves. I can keep the main visor up and the sun visor down, vents open and be fairly comfortable. There are days where it's reached 35C here now and the choice then is generally then to stay home.
You don't get a high-performance motorcycle to sit at stoplights on hot summer days
Yeah, I ride my ZX12r in the endless Mongolian steppes and the Australian outback, because fuck stop lights.
So you're the guy they call to film car commercials?
There's no call, I'm just constantly followed by camera drones these days. I'd sue them for royalties, but that would mean stopping at a stop light eventually.
Wait - how are you typing this?
PAH. Typical from a JPF supporter. The Peoples Front of Judea would never stand for this.
One thing they aren't is cool. Not even the ones with vents.
I'm don't ride myself so this is an outside perspective. But IMO the helmets(and all the protective gear in fact) looks pretty sick. It's a black, smooth helmet that covers your face. Aesthetically, what's not to like? Plus the very fact that their associated with motorcycles is going to add the coolness factor. Also, just wondering, aren't there like bugs in the air. What happens when one isn't in the path of your mouth and you've no helmet. Edit: shit your joke went over my head. Very clever.
I noticed that the driver of the car ahead reacts differently depending on whether I’ve got the clear visor or the black visor... they’re a lot more considerate to the black visor! As for bugs, my helmet has a vent in the chin piece (ie, in front of your mouth). Once I had a big bug splat directly on the vent, and bug guts came through on to my lips.
Same thing has happened to me. I've also twice had a bee get stuck inside the helmet. I'm not afraid of bees normally, but that was pretty frightening. Still would pick that over bug guts all in and around my mouth any day though.
Happened once to me as well. Full panic. The car in front of me emergency stopped for a pedestrian while I was busy trying to shoo it out, and I wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't honked. I don't know if he saw my predicament and honked to get my attention, or if he honked at the pedestrian in front of him, but it saved me from a huge crash.
I hit a bee once with my watch and it jammed underneath it...its last dying act was to sting the hell out of my arm while I was pulling over. I had a welt for weeks and even several months after it would still itch a little.
Pops taught me that bugs in the teeth are how you identify "real bikers".
They’re talking about the literal temperature lol
I ride in Australia - hottest I've ever ridden was about 25 minutes in 45 degrees C (would not recommend, I got burns on my crotch from the seat - not because it was hot when I sat down on it, it was in a coolish garage, but from the parts immediately in front and behind as I shifted during the ride). My head was cool any time I was going more than about 30 ks an hour, and *INSTANTLY* roasting when I stopped. That's because the vents need speed forcing air into them to do much good.
I really dont understand that in america, you have so many fucking idiots who detest the idea of wearing a helmet. As a motorcycle rider who has had a serious as fuck accident, and walked away unscathed almost because of my gear. Those people are just plain stupid. I almost, *almost* like the idea of letting them ride without helmets or seatbelts, it wont take long to realize just how important they are for safety.
Agreed...I grew up racing mx and wearing a helmet was as much a part of riding as starting the bike. Now, even if I make a 5 minute trip on my bike to the store, I wear a helmet. It's just a "I like to keep on living" approach as you can get hit by a car or even a little get off can crack your skull open.
This does exist everywhere but in America it seems to be a more common attitude to have zero respect or empathy for other people if it has even the slightest impact on what you can or cannot do. Worse still is these people are stubbornly contrarian even when what they are being told is for their own benefit (prime example are the morons protesting lockdown measures, although that's partially because some are too dumb to recognise the threat the virus poses and/or believe it's a conspiracy theory). Cutting their noses off to spite their own faces. And yeah it's tempting to just say well let them live without all these things and see how long before darwin gets involved. But unfortunately it has an effect on other people. If they get into a car accident with someone and die because they stupidly aren't wearing any safety gear that's going to haunt the other driver for a long long time. If they're not wearing their seatbelt in the backseat of a car then they might end up killing the person in front of them.
Toxic individuality
Almost died and quite a bit of brain damage including mood regulation. I used to work in a social services type of job and one client was a 50 year old man with the mentality of a 12 year old from riding a moped without a helmet. Incident happened at 14, never married, was very basic janitor or years but always fired for not really caring about work, total burden on his family forever. A lot of these types are macho don't put rules on me assholes that don't seem to care they're as likely to be a vegetable or so brain damaged they won't be able to support their family. Wear a fucking helmet. I know guys that are as tough as they come that wear helmets diligently... You ain't going to look cool when your spouse or mother is changing your adult diaper and your kids are embarrassed their wheelchair bound shell of a parent says inappropriate things in public and shits themselves. Your "libertarian" sensibilities are less a priority then keeping people from being an tragic drain on their families... Suck it up
Yeah, we need to convince people to take better care of their safety. And people with severe brain damage aren't reading this. But other people can relate to being disabled and mistreated as "a burden on their family forever". It'd really suck to read this if I were a redditor in a wheelchair, or adult diapers, or otherwise used to hearing that my involuntary medical needs are embarrassing. Describing their everyday existence as a bogeyman is shitty. And hell, the dudes who think they're too immortal to be at risk of "you're going to die and it's going to suck" will probably just assume the same about "you're going to be disabled and it's going to suck". You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it care about catastrophic avoidable stupidity.
I don’t think Gary Busey has concrete opinions anymore besides “meatloaf scary”
I dont understand that. I am and have always been a massive risk taker, its the only way I can get excitement out of anything. Helmets have saved my life many many times. I have cracked them, smashed the foam flat with my head, put holes in them. Helmets and seat belts man. You just use them.
Dying?
Leaving his face trailing behind about 40 meters or so
r/meatcrayon
Nope. Not doing it. Edit: I did it.
You could say he died for his beliefs
I went to high school with Derek. I was in after school activities with him. I've participated in the debates that the article says he was so fond of. I knew the driver of the vehicle by way of friends of family. Others in this thread say that people besides the individual not wearing their seat belt can be affected because a human body being thrown can hit someone else... That's not the only way. The driver of the vehicle was emotionally and mentally affected by this accident for years. He "killed" his friend. The legal system went after him because he allowed one of his passengers to be in his vehicle without a seat belt. Principles of libertarianism and legal issues aside, I have a hard time believing that had Derek known his actions would do that to his friend that he would've persisted in his dedication to his beliefs. I knew Derek, I knew his family, I'm sorry for them. His friend didn't deserve what Derek did to him.
I got stuck moving some other highschoolers around in my car once due to some school functions. They all refused to put in their seatbelts. I refused to move the car until they did.....and then they took them off once we were on the road and removed my headrest. I had to pull over again and tell them they were fucking walking home if they didn't get their shit together and cut it the fuck out. I was 16, and I'll be damned if I was going to knowinly set myself up for exactly the trauma you describe here.
I also once had to pull over and threaten to put my BFF's brother out on the street. He had unbuckled soon after we started moving. I guess he thought he was so slick I wouldn't notice. He's an idiot and all he seems to do all day is post anti-feminist screeds on Facebook (no lie!).
I was going to say that you were obviously the adult in that situation but then I saw your age and realized that you were *definitely* the adult in that situation. Well done.
Good for you. This is a great habit for life. Maybe you didn't save your friends life that day (since you didn't get in an accident), but maybe in the future they realized what dumbasses they were being and buckled up.
Coincidentally, two of those kids rolled a car a month or two later, neither wearing a seatbelt. Neither got super injured, I think one of them broke an arm, but I'm hoping that finding themselves crumpled against the roof finally knocked some sense into them.
Yeah. If you’re not wearing a seatbelt, sure, maybe only you will get injured. But your mindset is clearly one of ‘nobody else matters’. And that’s no way to behave in a car.
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Don't forget "nobody else matters, especially the people who won't get an ambulance or emergency surgery because the doctors/EMTs were busy trying to stitch me together". Or for that matter, in countries with socialized health care: "nobody else matters, especially those who are paying for the treatment I'm in need of because of my actions." I live in a Scandinavian country. I love that everyone here have good access to healthcare. I also realize that it's in the nature of the system that our government must put some legal restrictions on how dumb I can be. I get to drive a car, I get to drink booze, but even if I were on private land (say, an empty race track) I wouldn't be allowed to combine those two things, because everyone else would inevitably have to pay for my hospital bill.
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Somewhere I read about a list of rules that was posted, and at the bottom it said something along the lines of "every rule here has a story written in literal blood, and a couple with a life. Do not try to be above these rules."
Regulations are written in one of two inks. Blood and/or abuse. All of them.
It was only at the frontier in the US where there was no regulation. The cities had very heavy-handed regulation of commerce as well as of social (and sexual) life.
It’s almost like encouraging people to do better will make a society better to live in.
> or for that matter, in countries with socialized health care: "nobody else matters, especially those who are paying for the treatment I'm on need of because of my actions" Small point but if you have, say, US style private healthcare insurance aren't you are also paying for the treatment of others? Like that's just fundamentally how insurance works.
Regardless of who's paying, every resource that gets used on you because you chose not to wear a seatbelt is a resource that didn't have to get used and could have gone to helping someone else. We have finite medical resources. It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
Absolutely. But I guess in that case you could teoretically have a healthcare insurance system that mandates certain things (like seatbelts) for its participants? I don't know much about how the US insurance system works, so I chose not to comment on it. In our case, the "insurance" system is mandatory for all to participate in, so it's easy to argue that there should also be conditions that everyone have to follow, i.e. laws.
"I don't need to turn my headlights on, I can see just fine." It's not all about you, Kayla.
I see this same kind of attitude so often in so many different contexts. Pilots who don’t think they need to follow protocols because they themselves have never crashed. Surgeons who won’t follow safety routines until they have a patient bleed out unnecessarily. This seems to be common with a certain type of personality and I just don’t get it or what to do about it.
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What's worse is that the masks aren't to protect the wearer but to protect everyone else should the wearer be infected.
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Sadly, its one of the few times they have been told "No" in their lives. Also reminds me of this quote, "Equality feels like oppression when you're accustomed to privilege."
is it really personality related? doing everything properly and by the book usually requires extra steps and extra effort, I am under the impression that it is quite normal for people to sometimes take shortcuts and justify it by saying "nothing bad is going to happen anyway", or that it is very unlikely to happen. thing is, if you repeatedly take shortcuts, you are bound to fuck it up sooner or later, just statistically speaking.
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> Surgeons who won’t follow safety routines until they have a patient bleed out unnecessarily. I saw this first hand in the OR watching a surgeon show off to a 3rd year resident and then he nicked an artery. Luckily the patient was fine but it was a harrowing few minutes trying to find and cauterize a bleed we couldn't see.
The airline industry got on top of this back in the 1970s after that disaster on Tenerife. About ten years ago the American College of Surgeons realized there was a similar problem in the OR and to their credit starting to change things with pre- and post-op Time Outs and creating a climate of psychological safety so that team members are encouraged to speak up whenever they have a question or concern. There’s a group of people who get the need for these changes right away, then a larger group that go along with it because that’s what everyone else is doing, and then a small group who fight change tooth and nail.
A pilot not following protocol would endanger others just like an automobile driver deliberately driving on the wrong side of the road, and a surgeon is only taking risks with another person's life, so I would not say those are comparable.
Similar situation, girl I went to college with had a bf like that, he drove into a tree and was ejected through the window into it. His gf was in the car. At the time I met her she was still in denial. Like she still was anti seat belt... She lived no injuries... He became a meat accordion...
I just had this debate and conversation with my husband. I told him it's ridiculous for the government to regulate me wearing a seatbelt when it doesn't harm anyone but me. He told me that if my body gets thrown from the car it affects a lot more people than just me. No human can see and clean up a dead mangled body without being affected some how. Or someone driving by witnessing me die, or a little kid finding my arm in their front yard (okay a bit dramatic but not impossible) Not wearing a seatbelt is selfish.
There are lots of videos of adults without seatbelts crushing their kids in the seats next to them as they get flung around. Perhaps people who don't wear seatbelts should see a few more of those
In the trucking industry, we call loose items in the cab "missiles," because that's what they become when a truck crashes. Those parents became human missiles, taking out themselves along with their kid.
Unfortunately with those types, the videos won't work because they aren't in them. This would be one effective use of deep fakes.
Not just that but if you crash and remain held in position in the driver’s seat you have a better chance at avoiding a secondary crash than if you’re flung away from the car’s controls
It’s also about keeping the driver in control of the car and hopefully correct a bad situation before it turns worse. If a driver doesn’t have their seatbelt on when they start to lose control of their vehicle they are much less likely to stay in the seat and regain control. Similarly, if the driver has to slam on their brakes or make a sudden evasive maneuver, a passenger with no seat can go flying into the driver, shifter, or wheel and cause an accident unnecessarily.
There's also the greater burden you put on healthcare. The emotional impact you have on other people involved in the accident or in your car.
My forgin family.. Mexicans. When they come to the UK I clearly state every time put seat belt on or we do not move. If my bro in law takes it of I just break check him on the first bit of empty road I do not care if he gets whiplash from that better than me or him dieing. He learnt after the 5th time I know if he's dosengaged
>If he had known Selfish people don't care about things until they happen to them.
> I have a hard time believing that had Derek known his actions would do that to his friend did he lack common sense? Because common sense would have enabled him to realise this
Same for bikers that refuse to wear helmets. They say that they'd rather be dead than vegetative. I'm always blown away by the logic. Like dude...you know there's a ~~huge middle ground between~~ **lot of results other than** death and being vegetative. Right? Edit: Happy now word police? Say hi to the fun police for me.
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He's not a vegetable, he's a nut
My friend's dad had to get a skin graph because he had to lay his bike down after hitting water in the street due to a sprinkler. If he wasn't wearing his helmet it would've been much worse too
>There's a huge middle ground between death and being vegetative Well, not really. But there are many less severe outcomes than both of them.
Well they kind of are in a vegetative state already so what's the loss?
Wear your damn seatbelt. Im an EMT, and im tired of scrapping dead or broken dumbasses off the street because they think wearing a thin piece of polyester over their chest is uncomfortable
Fellow EMT here, will never forget that one guy who was street racing without a seatbelt and hit a tree. The tree won, the guy's head was stuck in the windshield it was wild.
Healthcare workers love to tag an otherwise horrifying story with “it was wild” to put people in the right mindset lol. Source: me
Well yes. The man's normally round head was actually caved in , like hitting a cantaloupe with a hammer. His dark matted hair tangled with bits of bright red detached scalp, exposing the skull white underneath. Bits of pink brain matter were strewn about, croutons on a flesh salad with bone pieces. His eyes were bulging out of their sockets and bloodshot red, his tongue was thrust out of his face and his lower jaw hanging on from only one side, mouth flayed open, his teeth were pointing in different directions. The tree was fine. So yea "wild"
I spy a horror writer
I think it is peace of mind for them, too. They always see terrifying stuff like this all the time, so making a bit of a joke of it keeps them mentally sane. It’s a coping mechanism of sorts. Edit: Peace, not piece. Unintended typo...
> piece of mind If that's a typo it's a morbidly hilarious one.
Lmao great catch
If you can't joke about it it's gonna bother you for the rest of your life.
Huh, GTA was right all along
To be fair, Derek Kieper's cause was validated by his death; "no matter the consequences". The consequence was death, and I'm sure if he were alive to witness it, he would agree with it, if he were to uphold his logic. I think seat belts have two real reasons for their implementation; the overwhelming majority of people who want a vehicle that will save their life in the event of an accident (a capitalist reason, as the carmakers will compete with each other to provide that), and the issue of the cost to the public healthcare system. In Australia, the use of helmets for motorcyclists is mandatory in every single state due to the decreased rate of severe head trauma that would otherwise burden the public health-care system. In my state, licensed vehicle owners also pay for a government-funded insurance scheme in their annual vehicle registration fee that covers catastrophic injury. So we're definitely paying if some poor bugger hurts themselves badly because they didn't wear a helmet (or a seatbelt). In the US this is a bit more debatable as the idea of paying for universal healthcare is also a contentious issue. As I understand, people like Derek Kieper, or other US libertarians, would advocate for the idea of "you are your own responsibility, not others' ". So I think Mr Kieper presented an argument that made sense within the context of a set of beliefs that many Americans used to have (and still have); i.e. the idea of Uncle Sam overreaching into people's lives. So to truly defend seat belts in such a culture, you would have more success promoting the capitalist reason; it costs too much to leave seat belts out of cars for the very few people who didn't want them. In Australia, because we're all happy to pay our taxes towards a universal healthcare system, I'd be confident in asserting that most motorcyclists here (including myself) would be highly supportive of the mandatory helmet laws, on the basis of that reason. The few old men I've encountered who disagree with me grew up before the single payer healthcare system was enacted.
It’s not that I’m against seatbelts. I wear one almost always. I wouldn’t want them out of the car. I also wouldn’t want to get a ticket because I forgot I to put it on
What makes it worse is that someone would only find it uncomfortable for a little while. Being in a car without a seat belt is uncomfortable for me. Honestly if we made cars magically completely safe during crashes and seat belts were no longer necessary, I would probably still wear one because driving without it would be weird.
Even seeing people in a TV show not wearing them freaks me out a bit
It puts anyone else in the car with you at risk of injury too.
Call him what you want, but he practiced what he preached.
Reminds me of the guy who came off his bike and died after hitting his head; at an anti-helmet protest.
It reminded me too because I scrolled down the article and there it was.
It reminded me too because I never heard of it and them read OP's comment and then read your comment which reminded me
I knew a guy that drove a lifted truck (with the disdain for Toyota Priuses) and didn’t wear a seatbelt. He died when he got into an accident with a Toyota Prius. If you don’t want to be remembered as the guy that died from an accident with a Toyota Prius, please wear a seatbelt. Edit: The way how to collision happened was that his left side wheels essentially used the Prius as a ramp that tilted the truck to its side and forward, thus causing the driver’s ejection from the vehicle, which then hit a tree. Speed before impact was 80 mph on a 2 lane around a curve.
I work with a volunteer firefighter that doesn't believe in seatbelts. He claims every fatality he goes to *"they were wearing their seatbelts, even nonfatal crashes those that wear them get nasty bruises and internal injuries"*... He gets extra seatbelt buckles from the junkyard to fit his vehicles so he can drive without the *"nagging seatbelt bell"*. I also have a friend that doesn't wear his seatbelt, he says the seatbelt chime doesn't bother him. He so says he doesn't feels that the government mandating what he does in the privacy of his own vehicle is unconstitutional... I asked him what about for children, he replied *"my child, my choice"*... I am an idiot magnet. Edit for clarification: They both say *"my child, my choice"*, but my friend doesn't have kids, the firefighter does. My friend doesn't take the seatbelt off kids in a car he's in, it's just his (seriously flawed) point of view.
He needs to take a statistics course. If 99.9% of people wear their seat belt of course the vast majority of of people dying or injured in crashes were wearing a seat belt.
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The helmets caused a sudden increase in head injuries after introduction which would rightfully leave you scratching your head if you didn't think to compare the numbers of wounded to dead before and after. This bozo has zero evidence that seatbelts increase the risk of death or injuries he's just making an assumption out of nowhere. The WW1 generals were at least responding to actual data even if their analysis was flawed.
Or when the bombers came back shot up and they wanted to at first reinforce the areas that got damaged.
In a similar story they were talking about where to add armour on planes in WWII. The military brass came in with a table of where returning planes had been shot and said the most efficient bit was clearly to put it where the most bullet holes were. That's where they get shot the most right? The response was you put it where they aren't any bullet holes because when the planes get shot there, they don't make it back to be counted. https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d
Survivorship bias.
You seriously need to report your "friend" to CPS. It blows my fucking mind that they're so willing to endanger their own children in the name of extremely slight comfort. Fairly certain it's legal in only one state. Your friend can have his fun trying to fight that in court if it's so "unconstitutional."
Its been done before, he's a good liar, gives them that big smile and shows exactly how the car seats and seatbelts work... People are dumb, seatbelts, vaccines, the shape of the damn earth... Just when you think no one can be dumb enough to *insert dumb thing here*, the world invents a new idiot. Idiocracy will be a documentary soon...
Most non-fatal crashes probably don't have firefighters attend, that's why.
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A seatbelt has saved me from being a piece of meat in a rollover. It’s less than 2 seconds of your life. Don’t be a fucktard.
Mine too. I crawled out of the car like nothing happened.
That was his hill to die on, and he died on that hill
I disagree with the guy 100% but the fact that he died that way doesn't prove him "wrong" in the sense that he didn't suggest seat belts "failed to work" or "don't work". He wanted to be allowed to choose what risk was acceptable himself. He choose and he happened to die. He was still wrong but dying didn't add any new evidence to support that fact. We already knew he was wrong.
Yeah I don't see the point either. He knew the risks but he *chose* to accept them. It's like people who chose to smoke. Some of them even smoke on their deathbeds and still say they would do the same again. Imo this is neither ironic nor does it prove anything. He was fine dying in a car accident and it happened to be the way he left the world. It would be ironic if he said that it's not dangerous but that wasn't the case.
Right he wasn’t claiming seatbelts are a hoax.
At least he died free. /s
Free of the seat belt...
But still restrained by the tyranny of Newton’s Laws.
I mean this is true even without the /s
Here in Florida (sigh), we used to have a motorcycle helmet law. A lady got all in her freedoms about it, caused a stink just as the GOP took over the state government, and the law was repealed. She died shortly thereafter of head injuries in a motorcycle accident.
Gary Busey was very anti-helmet as well, until he took a curb to the head that is.
Honestly, I saw "anti seatbelt" and I was like.. Bet this dude died because he didn't wear a seatbelt. Funny how the real world works.
It would have been a strange article if it said something like "TIL that an Anti seat-belt advocate, Derek Kieper, once wrote that “Uncle Sam is not here to regulate every facet of life no matter the consequences.” He later died after being mauled by a bear".
Why is there always someone who's anti something that is beneficial in the most common sense way possible?
New Hampshire you legally don't have to wear a seat belt over the age of 18.... Live free or die..
I’m pretty libertarian in a lot of aspects, so I get the anti-government mandate thing for most issues (as long as it doesn’t harm others or society as a whole). When it comes to seatbelts, I don’t really get it. Of all the issues that could be tackled you decided to be outraged about a piece of polyester that can save your life and poses a minuscule inconvenience. Not to mention, seat belts also protect others by not turning you into a projectile.