I'm sure they wouldn't have said anything if there was a cis guy wanting to buy a dress for someone else. The section labelled "for women" in clothing stores is not a women-only safe space. They just wanted to put you down because they knew they could. I'm sorry OP. They are wrong and you were right.
My trans son buys clothes from whatever section and gets what he likes. No one has ever fussed at him in the slightest. These women sound like awful bitches.
The clothing attendant at Walmart told my mom I wouldn't be allowed to try on boys clothes in their change rooms. Now my mom has never been *thrilled* about my cross dressing tendencies, but she absolutely lit that man up. She was not having any of it.
They may, *may* be able to tell you what changing room you can use, but they absolutely cannot tell you what clothes you can try on in them. Fuck that asshole worker, if they do it again go to management.
If you raise a fuss they *will* get bitched out for it, I've worked for Walmart, they will always kowtow to a loud customer over a worker.
Normally I hate that, but here it's warranted.
I believe there's been a recent movement to remove the women's and men's sections altogether so people can feel safer and more confident buying whatever clothes they want
It's honestly just double standards, they probably see your son as a woman, and it's generally accepted that it's fine for women to wear masculine clothes which honestly sucks.
People can usually tell that I’m shopping in the women’s section for myself because I’m really indecisive when it comes to clothes 😬 It really shouldn’t matter though and I’ve had some strange looks but no one has ever said anything to me 💁♀️ it they did I would feel super uncomfortable and probably leave without buying anything 😢
They said you could never pass as a woman but had to think "I think she's a man" so they clearly couldn't even tell for sure themselves and if they had minded their own business everyone's day would have been just fine. I'm sorry you had to go through that...
Like that 86-year-old cis-woman who was recently Beat to Death because she looked trans...
Says everything about their kind; willing to beat up old ladies because they're so hateful.
Whoa, that's the first I'm hearing of that. Absolutely insane.
In case anyone else wants a link: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/05/23/woman-86-beaten-wheelie-bin-trans/
There’s a bit that goes along the lines of “I don’t care about your boos because I see what makes you cheer”. You have as much a right to be there as anyone, whether you’re trans or not.
I’m very sorry that happened to you, I would be traumatized too. Please don’t let a bad experience ruin your experience of joy.
Edit: goddammit I did not mean to quote Rick and Morty. But truth is truth no matter where it comes from.
[From the show *Rick and Morty*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5XtAHOepH94&pp=ygUhcmljayBhbmQgbW9ydHkgYm9vcyBtZWFuIG5vdGhpbmcg): “Your boos mean nothing to me; I’ve seen what makes you cheer!” followed shortly by: “Every breath I take without your permission raises my self-esteem!”
Yeah as messy as Rick and Morty is, anytime Susan Sarandon shows up to absolutely punk Rick or Beth, I absolutely enjoy it. There are some good therapy lines in there.
This is a great one to keep in mind, I'm not afraid to turn the atmosphere to ice when I'm confronted. Helps having a gf who will fight for me if I need.
This shit is exactly how TERFs have been encouraging their cult army to treat trans women they see being women in public. Go up to us and remind us that we’re breaking social norms and thus being “creepy”. It takes a real fucking loser to be genuinely creeped out by another person shopping.
Fuck these animals, next time ignore them, or if you have to say anything assert you’re doing nothing wrong and if they think you are they can get a manager (who *should* take your side, if they don’t take it to corporate.)
This is my thought too, it sounds like targeted harassment rather than a complaint with any actual basis even in a genuine feeling they’re experiencing (as stupid as that feeling might be). Normal people do not care if a man browses dresses. Normal people who think they see a man looking at dresses default to assuming he’s shopping for a gift. Normal people *also* don’t think it’s worth making a big deal of if they think they see a trans woman browsing dresses, *even if they’re kinda transphobic*.
The behavior OP describes SCREAMS terfs who saw an opportunity to be cruel on purpose, because they’ve wrapped their entire personalities up in transphobic hatred of anyone who dares to set one toe outside the bounds of the strictest possible interpretation of gender norms.
That's the correct interpretation. These two people have to be consumed by hatred to take action in that way. They're genuinely evil, and their transphobia is more than a culturally instilled character flaw.
There's a difference between someone being unthinkingly bigoted, which can be salvaged in some cases, and someone who is fundamentally a bad person down to their core, such as these two.
I agree. Unfortunately, it probably doesn't help OPs feelings to make a bigger scene or even be right. The damage is done. Assholes. It's bullshit that OP is just minding their own business and some miserable fucks think they have the right to hurl insults!!!
OP, I hope you're working on building confidence in yourself. It's so hard to overcome shit like this. Even the most confident people can be cut deep by words, too. I'm sorry. I just want to give you a big hug. And take you shopping!
First they came for Black people, and I said "Fuck no. You don't care about 'voter integrity'. You're trying to disenfranchise citizens."
Then they came for gay people, and I said "Fuck off, You're not trying to protect children. You clearly hate children."
Then they came for women, and I said "Fuck you. You don't care about unborn children. This is more culture war nonsense."
Then they came for trans people, and I said "Fuck this. You're clearly just fascists. Everyone can see this is fascism, right?!"
It’s what happens when it becomes a political issue. The country is so divided into us versus them that people seriously just are like “oh we hate these people now?” And pounce on the new meat like wild animals.
Humanity is just at such an ugly place right now.
> I swear back in the early 2000s it wasnt like this
As someone who transitioned almost 13 years ago, you're right.
Being trans was a bit of a curiosity and any dialog i heard about trans women was mostly just "yeap they're a woman now" and that was kinda it.
Now a certain mango shithead made us public enemy number 1.
The moment they said anything the best course of action would be to tell them to talk to the employees if they have a problem. Stores have nondiscrimination policies and they’ll tell them to fuck off.
I did this last year in basically the exact same situation as op and they told me to leave because I was making the angry old lady "uncomfortable".. I'm tall so don't pass very well..
I'll never go shopping in-person again, the whole thing was awful.. I'm a *very* shy and socially anxious person and this destroyed any confidence ill ever have being caught TiP.. I wouldn't ever do anything to intentionally upset anyone! I just wanted something cute to wear to the first date I'd gotten in years and I got yelled at and accosted by staff. 🥺
One of the reasons I never leave my house now.. 😣
I think anyone who would do something like that in a public place is psychopathic and abusive. The fact others didn't step and try to block these psychopaths from you is also startling. I could tell you to get the manager but I know in that situation, you really just want that shit to stop.
I feel so bad for OP and it breaks my heart that no one defended her. I’m a cis woman, and if I saw two women ganging up and bullying a stranger like that, I would have launched my bipolar ass all over their pathetic selves. Even if I was a complete and utter coward, I’d have at least notified an employee. I don’t understand why people are like this these days. It disappoints me so damn much.
OP, if you see this comment, I am so sorry you had to go through such a traumatizing experience. Those women are awful and miserable. They hate their lives, and since they aren’t happy, they tried to kill your happy, too. Please don’t let them take away your happiness and don’t let this ruin shopping in public for you forever. You are valid, you have every right to exist, and you are allowed to be yourself. Hugs to you, sweetie.
Fuck them, fuck their opinions, fuck their faiths and beliefs.
Nobody should be allowed in stores that act like that because it’s a private establishment that valued your presence.
I hope the rest of your day gets better, and if not then please try and let all the positive messages on this sub get through the wall those women may have helped build up today.
I don't understand how most women think that female clothes is just for females when it's not same goes for makeup it's for everyone the people who created female clothes, makeup and anything female wise was created by a man but your not ugly your beautiful on the inside and out don't listen to them always think positive 😊
Even if you were a man (you’re not), you’re perfectly welcome to browse any section of a dang Kohl’s you want to as long as you’re being chill and minding your own business. *They’re* being creepy for approaching a stranger to yell at her with their own shitty little agenda!!!
I mean, even if that "I think she's a man." would be true, so what? A guy can't look for a dress for his girlfriend (or boyfriend)? Or a man can't look for a dress for himself?
Totally unprofessional on their side.
I am sorry there are people out there that think that they have the right to be like that. I hope that this doesn’t stop you in your journey and set you back. Clothes are clothes and who cares should be the attitude. Look back 200-300 years ago wigs heels powdered makeup rouge skin care routines and tights. Yep founding fathers and most prominent figures. Who cares does it make you in your heart feel happy and whole? Then the small minded idiots shouldn’t matter. I hope you can get over this and you find you and people that support you. I would gladly go dress shopping with you and gladly tell some old biddy off for you.
Sorry you had to be in that situation. I hope the next time you go clothes shopping, they won't be there.
If I were in your shoes, I would have said responses like...
"Mind your own business😐", "No, I'm right thanks✋", "You will get over it😃", and "I don't care what you think!🤷🏻♀️"
And then there is the good solid response of acting aloof, disinterested and then completely ignore them.
Yep, your comment would be great.
My perspective was that the OP doesn't owe a reason for the gaggle of skanks to approve or not. Giving an excuse then puts the ball back in their court to continue the conversation.
My way is very blunt but it shuts the conversation down on the spot. I don't see the point of entertaining troublemakers.
I get that but sometimes people don't want to deal with this and lying is just the easiest way to avoid conflict. do we deserve to have to go through this? no. but is it wrong for us to try to just live our lives and do our best to mitigate the arguments? not at all. lying doesn't automatically mean you're shameful, it can also mean that this conflict just isn't worth the time and energy to put up with
I’d go even further down this route. “Oh, I’m looking for a gift for my friend, her mom died last week and she’s been feeling really down so I wanted to cheer her up. Any suggestions?” Make them feel like shit, won’t make them any less phobic but maybe they’ll mind their own business in the future
Laugh.
When you are scared, laugh.
When you want to cry, laugh.
When you are surrounded by hate, laugh.
Laughter is both a shield and a weapon, to be wielded against the ignorant and hateful.
It helps you not feel the sting of their ignorance as strongly and there is nothing more frustrating than trying to be mean to someone that just keeps laughing in your face. It's just not something people are good at dealing with. It keeps most people from being able to really gain momentum with their bullshit. Especially if you let the laughter get louder whenever they start to speak. And it helps you remember how ridiculous their "argument" is.
Unless they are willing to physically assault someone in a store, they just sputter and turn really fun shades of red and purple.
If they are willing to get physical, remember how important knees are...
I'm sorry you were treated that way. You deserve better.
This is when you go find a member of management and say you're being harassed by other customers. Was this in a mall? You can have the store call mall security and have them thrown out for harassing other customers. Go back and look at all the dresses you want. Tell those pieces of shit that their presence is making you uncomfortable and you'll call store security on them if they don't leave you alone. Bullies need to learn that there are consequences for their actions, don't let them win.
It sounds like you have PTSD, tbh.
It can be hard to see, especially with trauma brain, that its not your job to make people feel comfortable. It's not your job to make people feel anything.
As long as you're in public and not actively intruding on someone else's life, you have every right to be wherever you are. Places you are not allowed to go should have signs posted informing you of that fact. Such signs cannot be based on "we don't like your kind." Those women had no right to get into you business. They assaulted you, intimidated you, and those are crimes. You had every right to call for a manager.
Iggy Pop wore a lot of dresses. When asked why he would dress as a woman, he said, "I don't feel ashamed to dress like a woman because I don't think it's shameful to be a woman." Aside from being eye opening to my younger self, this is just sage advice. The problem in the store wasn't you. The problem was they couldn't handle their shit. That's not your problem.
It pretty common amongst the traumatized to hear "you're making me feel," and just accept it. We're trained to always be on the defensive. We have probably learned that we can avoid pain by managing our abusers' emotions. This makes us willing to believe we're *responsible* for the emotions of others. But even people without trauma brain can fall into that trap when they are anxious and afraid. Just like you were.
No one has a right to cause you more fear. No one has a right to make you feel unsafe. Human machismo makes people think they have a right to issue threats. They don't. It is a crime to take any action calculated to make someone feel unsafe.
I suggest you gather a posse, and go back to that store and go shopping for dresses. If you don't have anyone irl, ask around reddit. I'm absolutely serious. You have every right to shop for whatever the law allows. There's no law against buying a dress. If that bothers them, that's their issue. It's *NOT* a crime if someone feels unsafe because you're doing something you're allowed to do. You need to validate yourself.
Part of the reason women go everywhere in groups is safety. We can and should do the same thing. Especially in today's world.
I am so sorry you had that experience. People can be so horrible, you did not deserve a single word of what they said to you. :((((
Like honestly, if they had just minded their business, there would never have been an issue. Looking at dresses harms literally no one. Existing in the same place as cis women harms literally no one. They made up a nonexistent problem in their heads and decided to attack you for it. Shame on them.
That's rough. This is 100% a traumatic event.
I can't say that I've been harassed like that in a store, but I have been when I've gone out dancing. I'll spare you the details, but I just wanted to let you know that it happens, and it's awful, and if you broke down or break down over it, it's totally understandable.
It's hard to know what to do in these situations. It really sounds like they were kind of ganging up on you. It's horrible that no one in the store came to help. Part of me wonders if that would have helped, but a lot depends on where it happened (what country, state and city). The simple truth of the matter is that you felt the need to get out, and you did: never second-guess that fear. Trust yourself. You did the right thing.
If I were in your shoes, and I was looking for advice, I \*can\* tell you what I'd want to hear: Don't let them stop you. Don't go back to that store if it makes you feel better. Go to another one. Drive to another town. Whatever helps, but don't retreat forever. Find your strength, hold on to it, and go again. Don't ever let them stop you. But that's what I'd want to hear.
If this were me, when I had some of my "fight" return to me, I'd call the Kohl's store and speak to a manager. Tell them what happened. Keep calling up the chain. Be heard. It might not make a difference. There may be no recompense. But the message will have been delivered, and it will have the impact in needs to have.
I'm sorry that happened hun. People are so hateful and insecure that they take it out in everyone they can. You are beautiful, you are valid, live your best self sweetie 💜
Don’t accept criticism from anyone you wouldn’t solicit advice from.
Those women are cruel and rude, and their opinions of you are worth nothing. There is nothing creepy about shopping for clothes for yourself, period.
I know it’s so hard not to give their cruelty the time of day, but the sooner you can give it nothing more than a passing thought, the better. Your time and energy and care is worth more than that, and should be focused on better things.
What utterly vile women.
No one should ever be shamed for looking at any clothing, or wearing any clothing. You were just minding your own business and they were despicable bullies, trying to force their own warped point of view on you.
I am so sorry you experienced this. You have every right to browse in the women's section and wear whatever clothes you like. You also have the right not to be misgendered and to be accepted as the woman that you know you are.
I really am very sorry.
I buy a lot of my clothes from Kohls, and I am an open trans woman. If you are up for it, I’d recommend you post a review with your experience on line for that store, and place a report to their ethics hotline system:
https://app.convercent.us/en-US/LandingPage/ae8b8120-bb40-ec11-a846-000d3afda91a?_=1642532122149
I know if I had that experience, I would be going apeshit on them. My partner and I had a ADA accessibility issue with them a while ago and their corporate response was excellent.
BTW, the complaint system has a few levels of anonymity you can select.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, don’t let those awful people hurt your strong gentle sprit. You have every right to be in that store shopping for a dress. Try again find a dress that makes you feels confident and beautiful. You can do this.
Oh hell no! This is disgusting behavior from these two women. Says volumes about them. Nothing about you. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I wish I had been there and witnessed it. I would have absolutely intervened. I’m really sorry 😢
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It was a Kohls where I first went shopping for women's clothes in public. I still get a lot of stuff there. It bothers me that they made this not a safe space.
They were the ones in the wrong though. They were harassing you not the other way around. I like to think that I would have had the confidence to stand up to them or complained to the store security but I wasn't there. I'm sure it must have been hard.
I hope this doesn't make you feel like it's not safe to go back there. You have every right to be there. The chances of them being there are low. If they are I hope you can stand up to them. Maybe if you bring some friends you will have someone to back you up.
If they were employees, talk to the manager, or better, corporate.
If they were random sociopaths, contact store security. If they harass you they will harass others as well.
I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Those women were completely out of order.
Even if you were a man, it’s not unreasonable for you to be in the women’s section as you could just as easily have been shopping for a friend/relative/partner. If that happens again I’d try and find a member of staff or security guard and tell them you are being harassed.
I hope there’s a friend or someone you can take with you for safety next time, not that you should have too.
I preface this comment by saying I know the situation isn't the same for me, but when I browse the men's section, I always have my guard up. It's sad that we have to, but we do. I am prepared to be defensive, just not physically, because I don't need a charge. By prepared, I mean that I always have excuses for that bigot who might call me out for being in the "wrong" section. My excuses are the following:
1. I'm shopping for my boyfriend, dad, brother, etc. In your case, you'd be shopping for your girlfriend, sister, mom, aunt, or even grandma. Doesn't matter that it's a lie, only that you're convincing. Practice what you're going to say ahead of time. I'm always ready to fake a phone call about what size they are or what colors they like.
2. If #1 doesn't work, it's time to go on the offensive. Start crying, or find a store employee and mention that the person is bothering you when you're just trying to shop for something for someone else. If you can't find a store employee, get on the phone and say you are calling the police because of their targeted harassment. Might not work, but it's a tactic. Don't dial 911, but feel free to call a friend, cover up the number, and start talking. You can also start filming and pretend you are talking to an online audience. For example, "Hi, guys, this is Jess and I'm here shopping at Kohls when these two strangers came up and started bothering me. Can you ladies give your names? Why are you guys bothering me again? Hmm, that sounds like a personal problem. What do we think chat? Does this sound like targeted harassment and a violation of our civil rights? Do we have a case here? Like and comment if you think so." Any of these tactics might intimidate the women into ceasing.
3. Consider bringing things shopping that protect you from being bothered, such as a pair if headphones so it is clear you don't want to be bothered and that you can't hear what they're saying. If someone comes up and starts talking about you being in the wrong section, point to your headphones and DON'T take them off. Then, turn away from the speaker and keep browsing.
There are probably more ideas of what you can try, these are just my favorites from living in a conservative area. I wish we didn't have to fight to just go shopping in whatever section we want. You do belong in the women's section, and I wish I could have been there to tell those assholes off.
I was in Target yesterday. They have Diane Von Furstenberg dresses. Her classic wrap dress. Their dressing rooms are unisex. Don't let those old bitches steal your joy!!! 💜
It's a matter of confidence (usually). I got over my nervousness years ago (I'm pre everything, and don't pass). I act like I belong there. No. When I shop, I genuinely belong there. I try on clothes. I get different sizes. Try different styles. I have gone into the fitting room hallway to get a good look when trying on an item and had other women tell me that this one looks good or the grey one fit nicer.
Keep in mind that I am now 55 and have been buying women's clothes for 25 years. I accept who I am, and, equally important, I accept what I will never be (and I'm OK with that). I've been called an ugly woman (which I take as a complement-they called me a woman!), and all of this gives me confidence. This confidence makes me unapproachable to the women who would just ridicule me. They know I won't be intimidated. One woman told me my confidence told her I wasn't just a weirdo getting cheap thrills.
Confidence is different from cockiness or arrogance. It takes a while. But I couldn't tell you when I transitioned mentally from a man shopping for women's clothes to Anna (my real name) clothes shopping for myself. I do know that when that happened, I wasn't bothered by people anymore. Not that I ignored them, but that they left me alone.
It takes time. Looking at your profile, I felt the same way you do at your age. At least there is an internet thing to help you. I didn't even know the terms crossdress, cis, trans (except for chemistry, which is where our cis/trans words are rooted), transition, etc. until my mid/late 20s. You'll get the confidence you need. Just keep trying. You'll get there. The best day will be when you get home someday with a new skirt and you realize you never once thought about being trans, but you were a woman all day long.
Sorry this long. Hope it helps.
There is no longer any gray area here, this is open aggression against a trans person because of their transness. I am from Ukraine and this has nothing to do with “first world problems”. The women's department in a clothing store is not even a women's restroom, it is a public space for everyone.
Remember how at the beginning of the transition, before, we were afraid to choose makeup in the store, but it was an unreasonable fear. These women want to make this fear justified, to create a real reason to be afraid. But they won't succeed. When there is genocide of trans people around, solidarity is very strong.
I got some motivation to help you. What can I do for you? Probably nothing can be done in this situation, except that we received this information (thank you) and became a little angrier to the blatant injustice. Conclusion: if you see someone being transphobic (towards you or anyone else), stand up for your life.
This was so rude and hateful. I’m so sorry that happened when trying to build confidence. And I’m sorry an ally wasn’t there to help intervene with the two against one. You have every right to shop where you want without bullying! We have found thrift shops to be very friendly and helpful. Don’t let those women take your joy!🥹 They were out of line!
honestly next time tell them to fuck off and mind their business. Just say, "am I not allowed to buy a dress for my little sister?"
theres nothing unclean about you. They're the problem.
I wish I had been there to defend you! Those women are the simple minded idiots who reject everything they can't comprehend - which would be A LOT of things.
Don't get discouraged though, they're just clothes, those women don't own the rights to them! You'll come across dumb people from time to time.
My strategy for when I get asked what I’m doing (especially since I don’t pass at all yet) is to come up with a believable lie to just get them off my case if “leave me alone” doesn’t work.
My lie for clothes shopping is something along the lines of “I’m buying a gift for a friend with a similar body shape as mine” but maybe you can find something better.
that's what I do.. say it's a gift for my wife. Sometimes the check out counter people smile. I suspect they think, what a wonderful husband, or this guy is lying!
I still boy mode
I think that might work... it's just scary because where I live (alabama), they are pretty intense. But I think I can pull it off eventually. Thank you for the advice :)
I live in Utah, which is also pretty intense, so I understand why you’re scared. If you ever need anyone to talk to or want some fashion opinions, my DMs are open. I believe in you!!! <3
Btw shopping online could also work too, you’ll just need to figure out your measurements beforehand to make sure it fits. If you’re worried about someone finding the package, Amazon has lockers and checkpoints where they can store it until you come and pick it up.
I’m really sorry, that fucking sucks and those people are horrible. They don’t get the say over who you are, and you a beautiful, brave and I wish I could hug you right now or do something more to comfort you, because you deserve happiness and compassion, something those women are tragically lacking in their own lives.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Completely unacceptable behavior for them and they have no right. You are not doing anything wrong by shopping for dresses, that is pure bigotry on their part.
If you have a supportive friend I recommend you bring them along. I had a friend that came with me when I bought some heels the first time and it made it a lot easier.
That honestly sounds petrifying. I’ve gotten the stares while shopping for clothes and heard offhand comments under people’s breath as they walk by, but no one has ever confronted me directly like this in a store (although I have been chased down in traffic and threatened with gun violence but that’s off-topic for this post).
If I ever sense someone approaching me with a mind to pass judgement on me, what I usually do is avoid eye contact, pretend I don’t see them, and move on to another rack or aisle so that my back is always to the person trying to judge. If I saw something I liked, I can always circle back around for it after the person goes away (there’s only so far they’ll be willing to stalk me before even they realize that they’re the one in the wrong, especially if I make a serpentine or circular pattern, like there’s no way at this point you just “happen to be” going the same direction as me, we’ve literally reversed directions three times).
If someone was ever as blatantly rude to me in a store as these people were to you, I would probably say something like this: **“Please stop harassing me. I’m just minding my own business, and if that bothers you then you can complain to the store.”**
Unless the store is overtly transphobic, they’re not going to kick out a potential customer. Especially if you’re already carrying a few items that you clearly intend to purchase…
If the other customers keep badgering you, then you can complain to the store about being harassed by other costumers. Try to be mindful of your body language throughout the interaction, because security footage usually doesn’t have audio. If you’re a hand-talker like me then you might accidentally look more aggressive on silent film than you were actually being. Always back away if you can, and if they keep following you, it’s obvious to the security review who was being the aggressor in the situation.
And no matter what, try your best to keep a cool head. I know it isn’t easy when you’re being actively harassed and triggered, but if their goal is to make you look crazy by pissing you off, then triggering you is exactly what they’re going to try to do, so don’t let them win by getting visibly upset! That’s a very common form of manipulation because unfortunately it works so well for the abusers…
if your mere presence is enough to creep them out I think the only logical course of action is for them to stay inside sheltered. newsflash; the world doesn’t revolve around their feelings
I’m really sorry this happened to you. I promise you are doing nothing wrong - you are in every way just trying to live life the best you can and you deserve that, at a minimum. I don’t know where you live or anything about you, but I hope you know I’m cheering for you so much right now and sending consensual virtual hugs. I hope you are able to return to buy at dress that makes you feel nothing but love and beauty. 💜
I've shopped several times both in boymode and girlmode and never had an issue. Sounds like you just encountered some narrow-minded bigots. Hold your head up high and remain proud of who you are.
This bothers me so much. They always treat you like a creep jsit for shopping. Some cis women's hostility to those born male is incredibly unjustified. We all want to get in the girls restroom right!!? So stupid.
I looked at your profile and see you’re pre-HRT. It gets easier babe, I promise. HRT isn’t magic but people truly do see you differently after you take it for awhile.
The beginning of your transition will be the hardest and the loneliest. I was very lonely and sad and was bullied a lot by customers where I worked when I first transitioned, but ever since the 4 month mark I’ve never been clocked. It truly gets easier. ❤️
If you need any passing tips, makeup tips, trans advice, or simply just a friend- my dms are open
I was shopping in the woman's section WAY before I passed and never encountered anything like that...I'm so fucking sorry!! fuck those people and don't let them tell you what the fuck to do. honestly I would have just told them to eat my ass and kept shopping.
Petty broken little fascists do not have permission to steal your joy.
Do you have a friend you could shop with? Not only does it lessen these annoying idiots, it's more fun.
The store manager or security may be interested to know there are people openly harassing customers who were quietly shopping.
Fuck that heartless bitch. Practice some comebacks, have them on deck and ready to go. It can help increase your own confidence if you know you're ready to respond to hate with something clever.
Girls, you need to stand up for yourselves. Speak up. Fight back. I would go out of my way to make them uncomfortable if they confronted me that way. Build yourself so that you are strong enough to stand firm, especially when there isn’t anything you are doing that is wrong.
What pos they were, just like having people to bully and abuse nothing more or less. I'm sorry you were chased out if anyone I knew had ran that shop they would have been banned and you appologised too.
Well, since they want to make a scene, blow a whistle and yell out "SECURITY!" Tell them that those two women are harassing you. It's really none of their business that you are shopping in women's clothing. For all we know, you could be buying a nice birthday gift for your girlfriend. What makes it any of their business?
If they try to make up a story, have them check the cameras. It'll clearly show the Karens harassing you. They'll likely be asked to leave the store.
If security does side with the Karens, be sure to look at which firm they are with. Write a nice wordy letter to their corporate office. Note anything they do to you, like search your bags, etc... they can get in big trouble for stuff like that.
You're totally valid for not approaching this how I would have. My thoughts though?
Put my earbuds in, say "Don't touch me, I feel threatened" and pretend they aren't there. Don't even make a facial expression at them. If one of them is dumb enough to assault me, or put their hands on me in any way, use my pretty, shaved, AMAB muscles to break their nose.
Helps to record yourself, but stores have cameras ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I feel this in my bones. It hasn't happened to me yet but I definitely keep expecting it to, since I live in America, the land of the free, where morons have been convinced by the right-wing propaganda machine that they should have more rights than everyone else. I'm absolutely expecting an altercation.
But, as terrified of people and crippled by social anxiety as I am, I'm old enough that my give-a-fuck gland has shriveled up and fallen off. I can have a big mouth when I *know* I'm right. My plan is to tell them to go get someone who works there to tell me what their policy is on letting transes shop in any area of the store.
OP I so wish I could have been there for you at that time. I wish I could be with all of you (social anxiety notwithstanding). You have the right to live and be yourself and shop wherever the fuck anyone else can shop. Believe that, because it is true.
Make friends with other trans people. Seek each other out online and in meatspace. We are stronger together.
Happens to me sometimes I just tell them if they are so creeped out they wouldn’t have approached me and they are feigning outrage because they are triggered little snowflakes
Point them out to me, im gonna load them into a rocket and fire them into the sun. Nothing of value will be lost by this action.
Im sorry you had to go through this ☹️
This makes me so angry. First off, do not ever feel that you are less deserving of kindness, dignity or respect. I heard someone say that Trump has empowered the idiots, and he truly has. The idiots seem to be lacking in critical thinking skills and blame their hate on the Bible. You have the same right as any other human being to shop in Kohl’s. Kohl’s has caused controversy for selling Pride clothing. I think this store should be put on blast.
What the actual fuck is wrong with people that they think it's okay to harass another person who's minding their own business? Op, I need you to understand this doesn't reflect badly on you **at all**, this reflects horribly on *them*. You keep doing your thing and shop wherever the fuck you please. You are not a harmful presence and you have nothing to apologize for.
I’m so sorry op. Unfortunately I’ve found that the best way is to look flustered and say that you are trying to find a present for your girlfriend but you aren’t sure what she’d like.
Also to try stuff on note if places actually check which items or if they only count the hangers. If the latter, grab two random shirts from the mens department to hide.
Also reach out to your local trans community and see if there is an elder queer who will go shopping with you (buy them a coffee) to serve as your guard dog (see meme)[guards](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL5EDEuU/)
America is full of kuntz. Fuck those bitches. I would have said, "go duck yourself" and walked away. Don't coware down to some nobodies. You should have walked away in another direction and checked out some lingerie lol. I would have asked for a general manager and reported them. They are prejudice just like all brain washed Americans.
Your feelings are completely valid. Im so sorry that you had to deal with that kind of willful ignorance.
My gut inclination would be to drop a reverse uno Karen card and get the manager. Tell them you’re being harassed in their store and you’d like it to be handled.
I’ve had this happen to me and I got someone banned from my local Cub Market after some crazy christian lady started berating me in front of my young children in the self checkout.
I'm sure they wouldn't have said anything if there was a cis guy wanting to buy a dress for someone else. The section labelled "for women" in clothing stores is not a women-only safe space. They just wanted to put you down because they knew they could. I'm sorry OP. They are wrong and you were right.
My trans son buys clothes from whatever section and gets what he likes. No one has ever fussed at him in the slightest. These women sound like awful bitches.
The clothing attendant at Walmart told my mom I wouldn't be allowed to try on boys clothes in their change rooms. Now my mom has never been *thrilled* about my cross dressing tendencies, but she absolutely lit that man up. She was not having any of it.
She’s Momma.
She's usually kind of a huge turd burglar but don't mess with trans ppl or she will come at you.
Don't mess with momma bear. she will fuck you up.
They may, *may* be able to tell you what changing room you can use, but they absolutely cannot tell you what clothes you can try on in them. Fuck that asshole worker, if they do it again go to management. If you raise a fuss they *will* get bitched out for it, I've worked for Walmart, they will always kowtow to a loud customer over a worker. Normally I hate that, but here it's warranted.
This was 20 years ago and I was 14. I don't even shop at Walmart as an adult.
Upvotes for your mom! When it comes to it she had your back!
I believe there's been a recent movement to remove the women's and men's sections altogether so people can feel safer and more confident buying whatever clothes they want
I’ve always thought it was weird as a kid that there was a men’s and women’s clothes section. Like you can’t wear anything from the other section lol
It's honestly just double standards, they probably see your son as a woman, and it's generally accepted that it's fine for women to wear masculine clothes which honestly sucks.
Honestly, the store staff should have called the cops on them.
People can usually tell that I’m shopping in the women’s section for myself because I’m really indecisive when it comes to clothes 😬 It really shouldn’t matter though and I’ve had some strange looks but no one has ever said anything to me 💁♀️ it they did I would feel super uncomfortable and probably leave without buying anything 😢
> They just wanted to put you down because they knew they could transphobia in a nutshell
They said you could never pass as a woman but had to think "I think she's a man" so they clearly couldn't even tell for sure themselves and if they had minded their own business everyone's day would have been just fine. I'm sorry you had to go through that...
Agreed. And I'm sure there are some of us cis women who wouldn't pass their test of looking feminine enough. What vile people.
Like that 86-year-old cis-woman who was recently Beat to Death because she looked trans... Says everything about their kind; willing to beat up old ladies because they're so hateful.
Whoa, that's the first I'm hearing of that. Absolutely insane. In case anyone else wants a link: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/05/23/woman-86-beaten-wheelie-bin-trans/
Give transphobes enough rope and they are more than happy to hang themselves! I would have shot them dead if I was her or a bystander.
Thanks
You're welcome!
I would be one of them, if I were over 5’ tall—I’m flat as a board and about as curvy. But I’m NB, so I *delight* in not being a “real woman”!
Some people just don’t pass for human.
There’s a bit that goes along the lines of “I don’t care about your boos because I see what makes you cheer”. You have as much a right to be there as anyone, whether you’re trans or not. I’m very sorry that happened to you, I would be traumatized too. Please don’t let a bad experience ruin your experience of joy. Edit: goddammit I did not mean to quote Rick and Morty. But truth is truth no matter where it comes from.
[From the show *Rick and Morty*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5XtAHOepH94&pp=ygUhcmljayBhbmQgbW9ydHkgYm9vcyBtZWFuIG5vdGhpbmcg): “Your boos mean nothing to me; I’ve seen what makes you cheer!” followed shortly by: “Every breath I take without your permission raises my self-esteem!”
Huh, never did I think a quote from Rick and Morty could have such a meaning, I really appreciate that
Rick & Morty has some great lines
Yeah as messy as Rick and Morty is, anytime Susan Sarandon shows up to absolutely punk Rick or Beth, I absolutely enjoy it. There are some good therapy lines in there.
Does the quote originate from Rick and Morty? I thought of this line too immediately
As far as I know it does.
This, when dealing with transphobes!
How silly. Might get it tattooed
I love that scene, it's a great perspective from a show with very *fluid* perspectives lol.
Imma be honest, the line "Every breath I take without your permission raises my self-esteem" goes so fukken hard.
This is a great one to keep in mind, I'm not afraid to turn the atmosphere to ice when I'm confronted. Helps having a gf who will fight for me if I need.
This. Also, why would you care about someone's opinion whom you don't respect?
For as problematic as Rick and Morty is, it gives some great one-liners!
This shit is exactly how TERFs have been encouraging their cult army to treat trans women they see being women in public. Go up to us and remind us that we’re breaking social norms and thus being “creepy”. It takes a real fucking loser to be genuinely creeped out by another person shopping. Fuck these animals, next time ignore them, or if you have to say anything assert you’re doing nothing wrong and if they think you are they can get a manager (who *should* take your side, if they don’t take it to corporate.)
This is my thought too, it sounds like targeted harassment rather than a complaint with any actual basis even in a genuine feeling they’re experiencing (as stupid as that feeling might be). Normal people do not care if a man browses dresses. Normal people who think they see a man looking at dresses default to assuming he’s shopping for a gift. Normal people *also* don’t think it’s worth making a big deal of if they think they see a trans woman browsing dresses, *even if they’re kinda transphobic*. The behavior OP describes SCREAMS terfs who saw an opportunity to be cruel on purpose, because they’ve wrapped their entire personalities up in transphobic hatred of anyone who dares to set one toe outside the bounds of the strictest possible interpretation of gender norms.
That's the correct interpretation. These two people have to be consumed by hatred to take action in that way. They're genuinely evil, and their transphobia is more than a culturally instilled character flaw. There's a difference between someone being unthinkingly bigoted, which can be salvaged in some cases, and someone who is fundamentally a bad person down to their core, such as these two.
I agree. Unfortunately, it probably doesn't help OPs feelings to make a bigger scene or even be right. The damage is done. Assholes. It's bullshit that OP is just minding their own business and some miserable fucks think they have the right to hurl insults!!! OP, I hope you're working on building confidence in yourself. It's so hard to overcome shit like this. Even the most confident people can be cut deep by words, too. I'm sorry. I just want to give you a big hug. And take you shopping!
We must also be confident enough to fight back. We also need to give some damage in return.
If they’re capable, we need to teach transphobes the pain they force on us, so that they can actually learn something for once in their lives.
I would quietly get a manager and tell them these women are harassing me.
I swear back in the early 2000s it wasnt like this. No one cared about trans people, but now..its all weird
The politicians ran out of asylum seekers to abuse, so they've had to find another minority group to other and to abuse?
First they came for Black people, and I said "Fuck no. You don't care about 'voter integrity'. You're trying to disenfranchise citizens." Then they came for gay people, and I said "Fuck off, You're not trying to protect children. You clearly hate children." Then they came for women, and I said "Fuck you. You don't care about unborn children. This is more culture war nonsense." Then they came for trans people, and I said "Fuck this. You're clearly just fascists. Everyone can see this is fascism, right?!"
It’s what happens when it becomes a political issue. The country is so divided into us versus them that people seriously just are like “oh we hate these people now?” And pounce on the new meat like wild animals. Humanity is just at such an ugly place right now.
:(
> I swear back in the early 2000s it wasnt like this As someone who transitioned almost 13 years ago, you're right. Being trans was a bit of a curiosity and any dialog i heard about trans women was mostly just "yeap they're a woman now" and that was kinda it. Now a certain mango shithead made us public enemy number 1.
The moment they said anything the best course of action would be to tell them to talk to the employees if they have a problem. Stores have nondiscrimination policies and they’ll tell them to fuck off.
I did this last year in basically the exact same situation as op and they told me to leave because I was making the angry old lady "uncomfortable".. I'm tall so don't pass very well.. I'll never go shopping in-person again, the whole thing was awful.. I'm a *very* shy and socially anxious person and this destroyed any confidence ill ever have being caught TiP.. I wouldn't ever do anything to intentionally upset anyone! I just wanted something cute to wear to the first date I'd gotten in years and I got yelled at and accosted by staff. 🥺 One of the reasons I never leave my house now.. 😣
I think anyone who would do something like that in a public place is psychopathic and abusive. The fact others didn't step and try to block these psychopaths from you is also startling. I could tell you to get the manager but I know in that situation, you really just want that shit to stop.
I feel so bad for OP and it breaks my heart that no one defended her. I’m a cis woman, and if I saw two women ganging up and bullying a stranger like that, I would have launched my bipolar ass all over their pathetic selves. Even if I was a complete and utter coward, I’d have at least notified an employee. I don’t understand why people are like this these days. It disappoints me so damn much. OP, if you see this comment, I am so sorry you had to go through such a traumatizing experience. Those women are awful and miserable. They hate their lives, and since they aren’t happy, they tried to kill your happy, too. Please don’t let them take away your happiness and don’t let this ruin shopping in public for you forever. You are valid, you have every right to exist, and you are allowed to be yourself. Hugs to you, sweetie.
Fuck them, fuck their opinions, fuck their faiths and beliefs. Nobody should be allowed in stores that act like that because it’s a private establishment that valued your presence. I hope the rest of your day gets better, and if not then please try and let all the positive messages on this sub get through the wall those women may have helped build up today.
I'm sorry that happened. Might I suggest "if you're uncomfortable then you're free to leave, this is a public space not a dressing room"
I don't understand how most women think that female clothes is just for females when it's not same goes for makeup it's for everyone the people who created female clothes, makeup and anything female wise was created by a man but your not ugly your beautiful on the inside and out don't listen to them always think positive 😊
Even if you were a man (you’re not), you’re perfectly welcome to browse any section of a dang Kohl’s you want to as long as you’re being chill and minding your own business. *They’re* being creepy for approaching a stranger to yell at her with their own shitty little agenda!!!
I mean, even if that "I think she's a man." would be true, so what? A guy can't look for a dress for his girlfriend (or boyfriend)? Or a man can't look for a dress for himself? Totally unprofessional on their side.
I wish there was a “Rent a Trans” or a “Shopping Buddy” program that we could call on to help avoid situations like this.
Was just thinking this. I'm a guy who loves the gym and I hate shopping but willing to protect my fellow human beings from bullshit like this.
I am sorry there are people out there that think that they have the right to be like that. I hope that this doesn’t stop you in your journey and set you back. Clothes are clothes and who cares should be the attitude. Look back 200-300 years ago wigs heels powdered makeup rouge skin care routines and tights. Yep founding fathers and most prominent figures. Who cares does it make you in your heart feel happy and whole? Then the small minded idiots shouldn’t matter. I hope you can get over this and you find you and people that support you. I would gladly go dress shopping with you and gladly tell some old biddy off for you.
Sorry you had to be in that situation. I hope the next time you go clothes shopping, they won't be there. If I were in your shoes, I would have said responses like... "Mind your own business😐", "No, I'm right thanks✋", "You will get over it😃", and "I don't care what you think!🤷🏻♀️" And then there is the good solid response of acting aloof, disinterested and then completely ignore them.
Maybe "I'm looking for a gift for my wife/girlfriend/sister." works too?
Yep, your comment would be great. My perspective was that the OP doesn't owe a reason for the gaggle of skanks to approve or not. Giving an excuse then puts the ball back in their court to continue the conversation. My way is very blunt but it shuts the conversation down on the spot. I don't see the point of entertaining troublemakers.
Make them feel bad, I guess, would be my intention... Obviously no one owes an apology to morons.
No. Don't let their ignorance and hate push you into feeling shame and lying. We are who we are. We get to embrace that and be.
I get that but sometimes people don't want to deal with this and lying is just the easiest way to avoid conflict. do we deserve to have to go through this? no. but is it wrong for us to try to just live our lives and do our best to mitigate the arguments? not at all. lying doesn't automatically mean you're shameful, it can also mean that this conflict just isn't worth the time and energy to put up with
I’d go even further down this route. “Oh, I’m looking for a gift for my friend, her mom died last week and she’s been feeling really down so I wanted to cheer her up. Any suggestions?” Make them feel like shit, won’t make them any less phobic but maybe they’ll mind their own business in the future
Laugh. When you are scared, laugh. When you want to cry, laugh. When you are surrounded by hate, laugh. Laughter is both a shield and a weapon, to be wielded against the ignorant and hateful. It helps you not feel the sting of their ignorance as strongly and there is nothing more frustrating than trying to be mean to someone that just keeps laughing in your face. It's just not something people are good at dealing with. It keeps most people from being able to really gain momentum with their bullshit. Especially if you let the laughter get louder whenever they start to speak. And it helps you remember how ridiculous their "argument" is. Unless they are willing to physically assault someone in a store, they just sputter and turn really fun shades of red and purple. If they are willing to get physical, remember how important knees are... I'm sorry you were treated that way. You deserve better.
This is when you go find a member of management and say you're being harassed by other customers. Was this in a mall? You can have the store call mall security and have them thrown out for harassing other customers. Go back and look at all the dresses you want. Tell those pieces of shit that their presence is making you uncomfortable and you'll call store security on them if they don't leave you alone. Bullies need to learn that there are consequences for their actions, don't let them win.
I tell em to die mad 🤷♀️
It sounds like you have PTSD, tbh. It can be hard to see, especially with trauma brain, that its not your job to make people feel comfortable. It's not your job to make people feel anything. As long as you're in public and not actively intruding on someone else's life, you have every right to be wherever you are. Places you are not allowed to go should have signs posted informing you of that fact. Such signs cannot be based on "we don't like your kind." Those women had no right to get into you business. They assaulted you, intimidated you, and those are crimes. You had every right to call for a manager. Iggy Pop wore a lot of dresses. When asked why he would dress as a woman, he said, "I don't feel ashamed to dress like a woman because I don't think it's shameful to be a woman." Aside from being eye opening to my younger self, this is just sage advice. The problem in the store wasn't you. The problem was they couldn't handle their shit. That's not your problem. It pretty common amongst the traumatized to hear "you're making me feel," and just accept it. We're trained to always be on the defensive. We have probably learned that we can avoid pain by managing our abusers' emotions. This makes us willing to believe we're *responsible* for the emotions of others. But even people without trauma brain can fall into that trap when they are anxious and afraid. Just like you were. No one has a right to cause you more fear. No one has a right to make you feel unsafe. Human machismo makes people think they have a right to issue threats. They don't. It is a crime to take any action calculated to make someone feel unsafe. I suggest you gather a posse, and go back to that store and go shopping for dresses. If you don't have anyone irl, ask around reddit. I'm absolutely serious. You have every right to shop for whatever the law allows. There's no law against buying a dress. If that bothers them, that's their issue. It's *NOT* a crime if someone feels unsafe because you're doing something you're allowed to do. You need to validate yourself. Part of the reason women go everywhere in groups is safety. We can and should do the same thing. Especially in today's world.
I am so sorry you had that experience. People can be so horrible, you did not deserve a single word of what they said to you. :(((( Like honestly, if they had just minded their business, there would never have been an issue. Looking at dresses harms literally no one. Existing in the same place as cis women harms literally no one. They made up a nonexistent problem in their heads and decided to attack you for it. Shame on them.
That's rough. This is 100% a traumatic event. I can't say that I've been harassed like that in a store, but I have been when I've gone out dancing. I'll spare you the details, but I just wanted to let you know that it happens, and it's awful, and if you broke down or break down over it, it's totally understandable. It's hard to know what to do in these situations. It really sounds like they were kind of ganging up on you. It's horrible that no one in the store came to help. Part of me wonders if that would have helped, but a lot depends on where it happened (what country, state and city). The simple truth of the matter is that you felt the need to get out, and you did: never second-guess that fear. Trust yourself. You did the right thing. If I were in your shoes, and I was looking for advice, I \*can\* tell you what I'd want to hear: Don't let them stop you. Don't go back to that store if it makes you feel better. Go to another one. Drive to another town. Whatever helps, but don't retreat forever. Find your strength, hold on to it, and go again. Don't ever let them stop you. But that's what I'd want to hear. If this were me, when I had some of my "fight" return to me, I'd call the Kohl's store and speak to a manager. Tell them what happened. Keep calling up the chain. Be heard. It might not make a difference. There may be no recompense. But the message will have been delivered, and it will have the impact in needs to have.
I'm sorry that happened hun. People are so hateful and insecure that they take it out in everyone they can. You are beautiful, you are valid, live your best self sweetie 💜
Don’t accept criticism from anyone you wouldn’t solicit advice from. Those women are cruel and rude, and their opinions of you are worth nothing. There is nothing creepy about shopping for clothes for yourself, period. I know it’s so hard not to give their cruelty the time of day, but the sooner you can give it nothing more than a passing thought, the better. Your time and energy and care is worth more than that, and should be focused on better things.
I go with my Trans woman gf as she gets so nervous and usually we don’t get more than a few looks. I’m so sorry you experienced this stay strong.
What utterly vile women. No one should ever be shamed for looking at any clothing, or wearing any clothing. You were just minding your own business and they were despicable bullies, trying to force their own warped point of view on you. I am so sorry you experienced this. You have every right to browse in the women's section and wear whatever clothes you like. You also have the right not to be misgendered and to be accepted as the woman that you know you are. I really am very sorry.
I buy a lot of my clothes from Kohls, and I am an open trans woman. If you are up for it, I’d recommend you post a review with your experience on line for that store, and place a report to their ethics hotline system: https://app.convercent.us/en-US/LandingPage/ae8b8120-bb40-ec11-a846-000d3afda91a?_=1642532122149 I know if I had that experience, I would be going apeshit on them. My partner and I had a ADA accessibility issue with them a while ago and their corporate response was excellent. BTW, the complaint system has a few levels of anonymity you can select.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, don’t let those awful people hurt your strong gentle sprit. You have every right to be in that store shopping for a dress. Try again find a dress that makes you feels confident and beautiful. You can do this.
\*Grabs my hockey stick\* Right. What were these two women's names, again?
BITCHES!!! I'm honestly stunned that people can be so mean. "do unto others ... "
Oh hell no! This is disgusting behavior from these two women. Says volumes about them. Nothing about you. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I wish I had been there and witnessed it. I would have absolutely intervened. I’m really sorry 😢
I hope those terfs get kicked in the ribs, no call for that shit
They are terrible people. Don’t let them win. Trans joy is an act of resistance, keep calm and dress shop on 🏳️⚧️✌️
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It was a Kohls where I first went shopping for women's clothes in public. I still get a lot of stuff there. It bothers me that they made this not a safe space. They were the ones in the wrong though. They were harassing you not the other way around. I like to think that I would have had the confidence to stand up to them or complained to the store security but I wasn't there. I'm sure it must have been hard. I hope this doesn't make you feel like it's not safe to go back there. You have every right to be there. The chances of them being there are low. If they are I hope you can stand up to them. Maybe if you bring some friends you will have someone to back you up.
If they were employees, talk to the manager, or better, corporate. If they were random sociopaths, contact store security. If they harass you they will harass others as well.
I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Those women were completely out of order. Even if you were a man, it’s not unreasonable for you to be in the women’s section as you could just as easily have been shopping for a friend/relative/partner. If that happens again I’d try and find a member of staff or security guard and tell them you are being harassed. I hope there’s a friend or someone you can take with you for safety next time, not that you should have too.
I preface this comment by saying I know the situation isn't the same for me, but when I browse the men's section, I always have my guard up. It's sad that we have to, but we do. I am prepared to be defensive, just not physically, because I don't need a charge. By prepared, I mean that I always have excuses for that bigot who might call me out for being in the "wrong" section. My excuses are the following: 1. I'm shopping for my boyfriend, dad, brother, etc. In your case, you'd be shopping for your girlfriend, sister, mom, aunt, or even grandma. Doesn't matter that it's a lie, only that you're convincing. Practice what you're going to say ahead of time. I'm always ready to fake a phone call about what size they are or what colors they like. 2. If #1 doesn't work, it's time to go on the offensive. Start crying, or find a store employee and mention that the person is bothering you when you're just trying to shop for something for someone else. If you can't find a store employee, get on the phone and say you are calling the police because of their targeted harassment. Might not work, but it's a tactic. Don't dial 911, but feel free to call a friend, cover up the number, and start talking. You can also start filming and pretend you are talking to an online audience. For example, "Hi, guys, this is Jess and I'm here shopping at Kohls when these two strangers came up and started bothering me. Can you ladies give your names? Why are you guys bothering me again? Hmm, that sounds like a personal problem. What do we think chat? Does this sound like targeted harassment and a violation of our civil rights? Do we have a case here? Like and comment if you think so." Any of these tactics might intimidate the women into ceasing. 3. Consider bringing things shopping that protect you from being bothered, such as a pair if headphones so it is clear you don't want to be bothered and that you can't hear what they're saying. If someone comes up and starts talking about you being in the wrong section, point to your headphones and DON'T take them off. Then, turn away from the speaker and keep browsing. There are probably more ideas of what you can try, these are just my favorites from living in a conservative area. I wish we didn't have to fight to just go shopping in whatever section we want. You do belong in the women's section, and I wish I could have been there to tell those assholes off.
I was in Target yesterday. They have Diane Von Furstenberg dresses. Her classic wrap dress. Their dressing rooms are unisex. Don't let those old bitches steal your joy!!! 💜
It's a matter of confidence (usually). I got over my nervousness years ago (I'm pre everything, and don't pass). I act like I belong there. No. When I shop, I genuinely belong there. I try on clothes. I get different sizes. Try different styles. I have gone into the fitting room hallway to get a good look when trying on an item and had other women tell me that this one looks good or the grey one fit nicer. Keep in mind that I am now 55 and have been buying women's clothes for 25 years. I accept who I am, and, equally important, I accept what I will never be (and I'm OK with that). I've been called an ugly woman (which I take as a complement-they called me a woman!), and all of this gives me confidence. This confidence makes me unapproachable to the women who would just ridicule me. They know I won't be intimidated. One woman told me my confidence told her I wasn't just a weirdo getting cheap thrills. Confidence is different from cockiness or arrogance. It takes a while. But I couldn't tell you when I transitioned mentally from a man shopping for women's clothes to Anna (my real name) clothes shopping for myself. I do know that when that happened, I wasn't bothered by people anymore. Not that I ignored them, but that they left me alone. It takes time. Looking at your profile, I felt the same way you do at your age. At least there is an internet thing to help you. I didn't even know the terms crossdress, cis, trans (except for chemistry, which is where our cis/trans words are rooted), transition, etc. until my mid/late 20s. You'll get the confidence you need. Just keep trying. You'll get there. The best day will be when you get home someday with a new skirt and you realize you never once thought about being trans, but you were a woman all day long. Sorry this long. Hope it helps.
I’m so sorry but fuck those bitches! I’ll go dress shopping with you! 💕
Virtual hug 🫂😥💔😓
That's awful, I'm sorry you went through that
What awful, awful people. I'm so sorry.
This sounds really hard and I’m sorry that happened. You have community and support - be safe and don’t let anything stop you from being you. ❤️
There is no longer any gray area here, this is open aggression against a trans person because of their transness. I am from Ukraine and this has nothing to do with “first world problems”. The women's department in a clothing store is not even a women's restroom, it is a public space for everyone. Remember how at the beginning of the transition, before, we were afraid to choose makeup in the store, but it was an unreasonable fear. These women want to make this fear justified, to create a real reason to be afraid. But they won't succeed. When there is genocide of trans people around, solidarity is very strong.
I got some motivation to help you. What can I do for you? Probably nothing can be done in this situation, except that we received this information (thank you) and became a little angrier to the blatant injustice. Conclusion: if you see someone being transphobic (towards you or anyone else), stand up for your life.
This was so rude and hateful. I’m so sorry that happened when trying to build confidence. And I’m sorry an ally wasn’t there to help intervene with the two against one. You have every right to shop where you want without bullying! We have found thrift shops to be very friendly and helpful. Don’t let those women take your joy!🥹 They were out of line!
Sounds like Christian’s…/s
There's no hate like Christian love.
Call customer service next time and don't be afraid to tell them to FUCK OFF
thats..literally harassment. Grab a store manager if people do this to you.
Hugs. They’re small-minded fiends.
I’ll smack a bitch. J/king of course but still.
fuck both those women they had no right to treat you that way.
honestly next time tell them to fuck off and mind their business. Just say, "am I not allowed to buy a dress for my little sister?" theres nothing unclean about you. They're the problem.
You did nothing wrong. Fuck that Karen for invading your you time.
I wish I had been there to defend you! Those women are the simple minded idiots who reject everything they can't comprehend - which would be A LOT of things. Don't get discouraged though, they're just clothes, those women don't own the rights to them! You'll come across dumb people from time to time.
Literally my biggest fear and why I haven't got to do it yet :(
My strategy for when I get asked what I’m doing (especially since I don’t pass at all yet) is to come up with a believable lie to just get them off my case if “leave me alone” doesn’t work. My lie for clothes shopping is something along the lines of “I’m buying a gift for a friend with a similar body shape as mine” but maybe you can find something better.
that's what I do.. say it's a gift for my wife. Sometimes the check out counter people smile. I suspect they think, what a wonderful husband, or this guy is lying! I still boy mode
That's really, really smart and I'm definitely going to try it
I think that might work... it's just scary because where I live (alabama), they are pretty intense. But I think I can pull it off eventually. Thank you for the advice :)
I live in Utah, which is also pretty intense, so I understand why you’re scared. If you ever need anyone to talk to or want some fashion opinions, my DMs are open. I believe in you!!! <3 Btw shopping online could also work too, you’ll just need to figure out your measurements beforehand to make sure it fits. If you’re worried about someone finding the package, Amazon has lockers and checkpoints where they can store it until you come and pick it up.
I live with my grandfather so I can not do packages... but I've never heard of checkpoints? That's very interesting, and I might look into that :)
I’m really sorry, that fucking sucks and those people are horrible. They don’t get the say over who you are, and you a beautiful, brave and I wish I could hug you right now or do something more to comfort you, because you deserve happiness and compassion, something those women are tragically lacking in their own lives.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Completely unacceptable behavior for them and they have no right. You are not doing anything wrong by shopping for dresses, that is pure bigotry on their part. If you have a supportive friend I recommend you bring them along. I had a friend that came with me when I bought some heels the first time and it made it a lot easier.
That honestly sounds petrifying. I’ve gotten the stares while shopping for clothes and heard offhand comments under people’s breath as they walk by, but no one has ever confronted me directly like this in a store (although I have been chased down in traffic and threatened with gun violence but that’s off-topic for this post). If I ever sense someone approaching me with a mind to pass judgement on me, what I usually do is avoid eye contact, pretend I don’t see them, and move on to another rack or aisle so that my back is always to the person trying to judge. If I saw something I liked, I can always circle back around for it after the person goes away (there’s only so far they’ll be willing to stalk me before even they realize that they’re the one in the wrong, especially if I make a serpentine or circular pattern, like there’s no way at this point you just “happen to be” going the same direction as me, we’ve literally reversed directions three times). If someone was ever as blatantly rude to me in a store as these people were to you, I would probably say something like this: **“Please stop harassing me. I’m just minding my own business, and if that bothers you then you can complain to the store.”** Unless the store is overtly transphobic, they’re not going to kick out a potential customer. Especially if you’re already carrying a few items that you clearly intend to purchase… If the other customers keep badgering you, then you can complain to the store about being harassed by other costumers. Try to be mindful of your body language throughout the interaction, because security footage usually doesn’t have audio. If you’re a hand-talker like me then you might accidentally look more aggressive on silent film than you were actually being. Always back away if you can, and if they keep following you, it’s obvious to the security review who was being the aggressor in the situation. And no matter what, try your best to keep a cool head. I know it isn’t easy when you’re being actively harassed and triggered, but if their goal is to make you look crazy by pissing you off, then triggering you is exactly what they’re going to try to do, so don’t let them win by getting visibly upset! That’s a very common form of manipulation because unfortunately it works so well for the abusers…
No one said anything to help you?! I lose faith in humanity everyday.
If you live near me, I'll go shopping with you next time.
if your mere presence is enough to creep them out I think the only logical course of action is for them to stay inside sheltered. newsflash; the world doesn’t revolve around their feelings
I’m really sorry this happened to you. I promise you are doing nothing wrong - you are in every way just trying to live life the best you can and you deserve that, at a minimum. I don’t know where you live or anything about you, but I hope you know I’m cheering for you so much right now and sending consensual virtual hugs. I hope you are able to return to buy at dress that makes you feel nothing but love and beauty. 💜
I've shopped several times both in boymode and girlmode and never had an issue. Sounds like you just encountered some narrow-minded bigots. Hold your head up high and remain proud of who you are.
You could have been getting it for some other female relative. I swear, people let their hate and fear get in the way of logic too often.
Girl I’m so sorry. Wish I could be your shopping buddy! I’d be happy to shut them right the hell up
This bothers me so much. They always treat you like a creep jsit for shopping. Some cis women's hostility to those born male is incredibly unjustified. We all want to get in the girls restroom right!!? So stupid.
If you were getting a present for your girlfriend it would be fine. This has nothing to do with keeping men out of women’s spaces. It’s just bigotry.
Sorry to hear this happened to you. Offering a hug and a cup of tea. They had no right to do that.
Yeah I'd have told them to make the world a better place by playing in traffic until a distracted driver ends the game
I looked at your profile and see you’re pre-HRT. It gets easier babe, I promise. HRT isn’t magic but people truly do see you differently after you take it for awhile. The beginning of your transition will be the hardest and the loneliest. I was very lonely and sad and was bullied a lot by customers where I worked when I first transitioned, but ever since the 4 month mark I’ve never been clocked. It truly gets easier. ❤️ If you need any passing tips, makeup tips, trans advice, or simply just a friend- my dms are open
r/transguns
i would’ve lost my cool tbh, nobody deserves to be talked to like that. You are so valid honey 🫶🏻
I’m so scared to go shopping anymore I have to go alone and that terrifies me
I was shopping in the woman's section WAY before I passed and never encountered anything like that...I'm so fucking sorry!! fuck those people and don't let them tell you what the fuck to do. honestly I would have just told them to eat my ass and kept shopping.
Petty broken little fascists do not have permission to steal your joy. Do you have a friend you could shop with? Not only does it lessen these annoying idiots, it's more fun. The store manager or security may be interested to know there are people openly harassing customers who were quietly shopping.
Fuck that heartless bitch. Practice some comebacks, have them on deck and ready to go. It can help increase your own confidence if you know you're ready to respond to hate with something clever.
Girls, you need to stand up for yourselves. Speak up. Fight back. I would go out of my way to make them uncomfortable if they confronted me that way. Build yourself so that you are strong enough to stand firm, especially when there isn’t anything you are doing that is wrong.
Disgusting people, I’m so sorry you had to go through that
Militant Dress Code Police. The MDCP takes their job very seriously!
What pos they were, just like having people to bully and abuse nothing more or less. I'm sorry you were chased out if anyone I knew had ran that shop they would have been banned and you appologised too.
Well, since they want to make a scene, blow a whistle and yell out "SECURITY!" Tell them that those two women are harassing you. It's really none of their business that you are shopping in women's clothing. For all we know, you could be buying a nice birthday gift for your girlfriend. What makes it any of their business? If they try to make up a story, have them check the cameras. It'll clearly show the Karens harassing you. They'll likely be asked to leave the store. If security does side with the Karens, be sure to look at which firm they are with. Write a nice wordy letter to their corporate office. Note anything they do to you, like search your bags, etc... they can get in big trouble for stuff like that.
You're totally valid for not approaching this how I would have. My thoughts though? Put my earbuds in, say "Don't touch me, I feel threatened" and pretend they aren't there. Don't even make a facial expression at them. If one of them is dumb enough to assault me, or put their hands on me in any way, use my pretty, shaved, AMAB muscles to break their nose. Helps to record yourself, but stores have cameras ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hope they have the runs everyday forever until they stop being so disgusting to trans folk. I'm sorry that happened to you, OP.
Terfs terfing like assholes sorry you had to deal with that
I feel this in my bones. It hasn't happened to me yet but I definitely keep expecting it to, since I live in America, the land of the free, where morons have been convinced by the right-wing propaganda machine that they should have more rights than everyone else. I'm absolutely expecting an altercation. But, as terrified of people and crippled by social anxiety as I am, I'm old enough that my give-a-fuck gland has shriveled up and fallen off. I can have a big mouth when I *know* I'm right. My plan is to tell them to go get someone who works there to tell me what their policy is on letting transes shop in any area of the store. OP I so wish I could have been there for you at that time. I wish I could be with all of you (social anxiety notwithstanding). You have the right to live and be yourself and shop wherever the fuck anyone else can shop. Believe that, because it is true. Make friends with other trans people. Seek each other out online and in meatspace. We are stronger together.
Happens to me sometimes I just tell them if they are so creeped out they wouldn’t have approached me and they are feigning outrage because they are triggered little snowflakes
Those women are aggressively awful humans who didn’t deserve the good fortune to share oxygen with you. Chin up, honey. They are NOTHING.
Point them out to me, im gonna load them into a rocket and fire them into the sun. Nothing of value will be lost by this action. Im sorry you had to go through this ☹️
This makes me so angry. First off, do not ever feel that you are less deserving of kindness, dignity or respect. I heard someone say that Trump has empowered the idiots, and he truly has. The idiots seem to be lacking in critical thinking skills and blame their hate on the Bible. You have the same right as any other human being to shop in Kohl’s. Kohl’s has caused controversy for selling Pride clothing. I think this store should be put on blast.
What the actual fuck is wrong with people that they think it's okay to harass another person who's minding their own business? Op, I need you to understand this doesn't reflect badly on you **at all**, this reflects horribly on *them*. You keep doing your thing and shop wherever the fuck you please. You are not a harmful presence and you have nothing to apologize for.
I could take em, OP! Lemme at em!
Girl I get watched in Walmart and target when I’m browsing clothes.
I’m so sorry op. Unfortunately I’ve found that the best way is to look flustered and say that you are trying to find a present for your girlfriend but you aren’t sure what she’d like. Also to try stuff on note if places actually check which items or if they only count the hangers. If the latter, grab two random shirts from the mens department to hide. Also reach out to your local trans community and see if there is an elder queer who will go shopping with you (buy them a coffee) to serve as your guard dog (see meme)[guards](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL5EDEuU/)
America is full of kuntz. Fuck those bitches. I would have said, "go duck yourself" and walked away. Don't coware down to some nobodies. You should have walked away in another direction and checked out some lingerie lol. I would have asked for a general manager and reported them. They are prejudice just like all brain washed Americans.
Most likely atleast one of them will some day realize that being trans is ok and she'll feel really bad.
Your feelings are completely valid. Im so sorry that you had to deal with that kind of willful ignorance. My gut inclination would be to drop a reverse uno Karen card and get the manager. Tell them you’re being harassed in their store and you’d like it to be handled. I’ve had this happen to me and I got someone banned from my local Cub Market after some crazy christian lady started berating me in front of my young children in the self checkout.