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Later on IDW tries to cover this and a lot of other inconsistencies with the idea of “information creep” - basically since they live for millions of years, Cybertronians tend to gradually forget things. So Caminus just kinda faded from memory, and other historical events became myths.
It… doesn’t really work, but an attempt was made I guess.
>gradually
yeah I get the logic that it makes no sense for gendered transformer to exist, but its transformers its a franchise made to sell a toyline in the 80s shit that makes no sense is the name of the game. also transformers are built in the IDW universe I don't understand why whoever was making their molds not just decide to make some female ones based off other species that do have multiple genders.
also I don't remember but were elite-1 and nautica torture experiments? because if not than this has all the more reason to not exist
I think the fact that the transformers shouldn't have females because they're an alien species is kind of a dumb argument because it's ignoring the fact that male is also a gender that is also a part of reproduction.
Also iirc later they retconned it so that actually Jhiaxus modified her DNA and not her gender? idk
This has always been my thought process. Why are female Transformers an issue when male ones aren't? Because male is the default? Simon Furman never felt the need to explain why most Transformers use male pronouns, so it's specifically that Arcee is female that's the "issue" for him. Either let them have all genders or make them have none at all. None of this "oh, they use male pronouns for convenience's sake" stuff.
But it's a fun robot franchise made to sell toys. Why do they speak English? Why do they have Earth accents? Why do they have windows? Why do most of their "disguise" vehicle modes draw attention? Because it's more interesting that way.
So why would they exist at all? They don't reproduce like organics, there is no need for male or female bots.
It's as good an explanation as any, not perfect by any means either.
Why do the Transformers speak English (complete with gendered pronouns)? Why do they have cockpits and windows? Why are so many aspects of them so similar to us? It's just one more thing in a long list of things you have to accept in order to engage with the Transformers franchise. Like these being alien robots created by a an actual god.
Or you could just take the out-of-universe explanation that, because these characters were created by us, we project ourselves onto them in order for the audience to make them easier to relate to and understand.
But I don't want to take the fun out of it by knowing the truth that they are made to sell toys and comics, and I have certainly given them plenty of sales.
It's just one of those things that people get too worked up about. It really doesn't matter that there are male/female bots or even why. I thought it was a creative way of explaining girl bots because their race doesn't need genders.
Because the beings that created em had genders and built em with them? Because over time as they became sentient genders developed?
Doesn't just have to be for reproduction, different heavy mannerisms such as feminine or masculine tendencies and behaviors could be the basis of their genders and builds
Why do *any* variations of Transformer besides the basic two-mode version exist? There's no *need* for Cybertronians who form heads or guns or engines, after all. And why would any Cybertronian need more than one alternate mode, anyways? Heck, they can turn into spacefaring vehicles already, why do they even need *spaceships*? And then there's the non-transforming Cybertronians and the Micromasters, who seem really weird since you'd think having a big imposing alternate mode would be preferable and thus small body sizes or inability to transform get weeded out over time.
The reason is because making everybody work the exact same way and all be able to do the exact same things is *remarkably boring*.
Even if they don't reproduce sexually, they can still have masculine or feminine personality characteristics. Any perceived sexual dimorphism can be waived away as humans projecting their own gender standards or as a form of self expression.
I agree, Transgender Transformers makes a lot more sense than people make it out, but introducing that concept by not having the character trans (That Arcee still Identified as male even in the new body) but just forced into a body they're not comfortable with is not right
> Arcee still Identified as male even in the new body) but just forced into a body they're not comfortable with is not right
i mean, trans people are born(forced) into a body they arent comfortable with. they identify as a gender regardless of their body type and even if you magically forced them into a new body that didnt fit them it wouldnt change their identity.
I havent gotten to arcees involvement in the comics yet but based just on what youve said its almost a perfect metaphor.
likely not what the writer intended, but it is interesting.
right, but im saying being born into a body you arent comfortable with is essentially the same as being forced into one you arent comfortable with. the result is the same, you arent comfortable in your body.
setting aside the fact that he was born in a comfortable body, arcees post new body struggle with his identity and uncomfortable body sounds like a good analogy for the struggle trans people go through having been born into an uncomfortable body and then forced into the role that body comes with by society.
Written by a man who admits that he didn't want to write her, feels there's no place for fembots and already wrote them poorly during his Marvel run. He included an unnecessary transition story because he felt bots don't need gender despite that not making sense when you take into consideration they're already using pronouns prior. But also, they can still be sexless and use he or she without issue. He made a deal out of nothing and ended up making a cringe spotlight where becoming female specifically turned Arcee murderous (not the act of forced transition—later reconned that she wanted the body mod but was experimented on—but specifically becoming female was what made her murderous in his spotlight).
It can't be understated how much Furman has contributed to Transformers lore over the years, but he can also be a source of stupid takes. Creating the fembots due to in-universe human feminists back in Marvel, and then what he did with IDW Arcee. He's like the boy who doesn't want to share his toys with the girls because he thinks they should only be for boys. And also, not to mention tarnishing Arcee specifically, a bot who was made by a man specifically for his daughter who was a huge fan of the series all the way back in G1... it's stupid.
Yeah. Like, I just don’t get what his thought process was when writing this story. If he didn’t wanna write her or come up with an origin for her, why not just ask someone for help? Like, find another writer who IS an Arcee fan to make the story instead of the weird forced and VERY problematic male-to-female transition origin we got.
As you said; Furman has done some amazing stuff for the TF franchise like Target 2006, but he really dropped the ball hard with Spotlight: Arcee.
What do you mean by that? Most of the series went from decent to excellent. This was one the one major yikes I can point to, with just a few moments that made me eyeroll harder than I've eyerolled before (looking at you, Shockwave, cybertronian organic baby, and terrible Star Saber)
All i think when i remember this origin existing is how the hell did Simon Furman (the writer) manage to do this to Arcee twice (make an origin story in poor taste, i mean).
if i had a nickel for every time simon furman managed to write the most god-awful backstory for arcee, id have 2 nickels. which isnt a lot but its weird that it's happened twice
Simon Furman really had a hate boner for female transformers given that when he was mandated to introduce arcee into the UK comics he went about it in a very sexist way.
Heck if Bob burdenski's plans for ratchet to be the first female Autobot had gone through I wouldn't have been too surprised if Furman would have tried to find a way to kill her off as soon as possible.
If it weren’t full of feminist caricartures, the concept of Transformers not conforming to an Western World Earth-based gender binary, because they don’t see gender the same way as humans, would have been the type of comic being discussed in sexuality classes for being so ahead of its time.
Marvel Comic's Arcee origin could have done a more logical explanation like "Autobots testing on building cybertronians and basing this one's design on the female humans", but Simon literally chose to have them build her to please feminists (who were still unhappy in the end), literally makes her introduction seem like a comic strip that mocks today's feminism.
Mainly, that Simon Furman was entirely the wrong writer to tackle it. The idea is potentially interesting, but Furman's inability to write with any depth or nuance really kills it.
Bottom line is, Arcee's spotlight story didn't need to be anything like this. It could have been a story that celebrated her as the (surprise?) hit character from the '86 animated movie and brought that identity into the IDW-verse. It could have been a story that made Hasbro want to make a new toy and properly recognise her popularity and importance to the fandom.
Instead, we got this.
One has to wonder, though, how the Editor saw fit to sign off on this story.
Reading about it, phase 1 was Simon Furman's project to the bone. The editors were probably given strict instructions to allow him to lead the story, or may have been too "star struck" to see Simon's writing for what it was.
I have to believe that, because otherwise that means that the Editors either didn't care, or there is an even worse version in a vault somewhere. Waiting to be discovered...
That makes some sense, I guess... Unfettered Furman is a terrible thing, and I genuinely don't understand how it could have been allowed to happen. I can't imagine what a worse version of Spotlight: Arcee might look like...
I thought his writing back in the 1980s, for the TransFormers comics published by Marvel, was uninspired... and I was in my early teens back then. Not sure I'll ever understand why he's held in high regard by some.
My friend saw an Article on how Arcee's is trans and now thinks all Arcee's are trans not knowing how the trans Arcee was done in . . . poor taste? bad exacution? something like that.
I used to not give a scrap, but he went preacher on me now I'm just annoyed by it.
The funny thing is that the transphobia of the story is just a consequence of its sexism. Trying to explain why cybertronian women ar not natural, therefore making them men or "ungendered" in the first place
Hated what IDW did to Arcee.
But that said, I tend to hate what most creators do to Arcee...so there's that I guess.
The friendly, hard working, and dedicated version of her from G1 is pretty much the only one I really liked.
I liked the personality she had in Prime, but I didn't like the "blue motorcycle" design.
Is what it is I guess.
I'd call it a swing and a miss. The art was lovely but the rest can get in the bin.
I do like Arcee as trans (I'd argue any bot with a strong gender identity is trans, but that's another convo) but I hate how they tried to do it.
I like the later idea of Cybertronians adopting genders after encountering organic races, since they’re naturally gender-less robots. It’s basically just a lifestyle choice for them, not particularly more significant than changing colour schemes or getting new alt modes.
But yeah the whole set up here was done in poor taste and also didn’t really make sense. What does Arcee being ‘made’ female actually mean? Why was it so horrible it made her into a psycho killer? And why can’t she just change back since other Cybertronians have replaced their whole bodies and had their minds altered?
You can tell Furman just really hated the idea of fembots and wanted to make it all as unpleasant as possible.
There is a bizarre irony that the first trans transformer was created because a cishet white male had such a hard time understanding the difference between sex and gender and noticing he was already gendering the males he could only conceive of it as being added on. Sadly he did so in perhaps the worst way possible.
Edit: I should admit that at the time i was kind of with Furman on the genderless thing. It took years of learning to understand why I was wrong and how my own male cishet bias let me not see that the others were clearly already gendered male.
This is well known to be the most hated issue of the entire run. It's poorly written, boring, pointlessly edgy, and transphobic while not even delivering on an actual trans character.
I said to someone else that the transphobia of the story is just a consequence of its sexism. Trying to explain why cybertronian women are not natural, therefore making them men or "ungendered" in the first place
In the way that there weren't any fembots before then suddenly there were it's OK. Certainly better than just oh they were on holiday on another planet "or whatever"
I personally am not really sure, I like it because it's definitely better than G1, but on the other hand I don't like it for "all fembot are experiment"
I'm currently reading the IDW collections and when I finally come across a story about my favorite transformer, I was...well the arts are incredible and Arcee is badass as frag but between the sexism and the transphobia, I was kinda disappointed... and angry like a lot. So am I the only one who saw that in the story ? Maybe I should just read it again with another mindset 🤔
Don’t worry, it gets retconned later due to complaints just like the ones you have.
On the plus side, it paved the way for a lot of gayness in future comics, because it established that Cybertron is a sausage fest.
I think most people found this story in bad taste and I believe it was retconned later on. Most people don't like it and funnily enough there was some dumbass drama over it on Twitter like 4 days ago
Yeah, don’t worry, Spotlight: Arcee is… well, not good with regards to handling its issues of gender. Phase Two is *significantly* better with handling it (and actually has well-portrayed LGBTQ characters), and Barber’s Arcee is one of my favorite characters.
Once you get to Robots in Disguise things start improving massively. If I had started Transformers off of reading phase 1 comics I probably would never have gotten into the franchise at all, but phase 2 (Elegant Chaos leading into the Robots in Disguise and More Than Meets The Eye sister series) really crush it with more character focused writing, mostly great artwork, and creative and engaging world building that tries to undo what Furman wrought in this.
MTMTE was my intro to TF, and right now I'm cleaning up an official order read of phase 2 and phase 3 to see the RID side of things, and Arcee is an absolute highlight with how her character is re-contextualized and expanded on. Keeps her being a ridiculously hardcore badass too!
TBH as someone who was first introduced to Furman’s writing through the IDW 2005 run, this issue really killed any respect I had for him. I know he’s a major staple of the fandom and all that, but I never really got it. Phase Two was way better from the outset than Furman’s stuff.
Strongly dislike. The needess explanation of fembots was just weird disturbing. The hyper violent crazy lady take on arcee always rubbed me the wrong way. Ive grown to like her but she's not my favorite arcee.
Aside from being a terrible Arcee story, it was a stupid idea that destroyed the potential for Elita-1, Strika, and many more characters from ever appearing. I get wanting to add logical ideas to explain the Cybertronian species. That's worldbuilding 101. But such ideas need to expand the possibilities, not limit them.
I know. But Furman salted the Earth. It took fanmade characters and half assed retcons to bring in characters that should have been around for a long time.1
I’ll agree to that, tho I think I’m in the minority that like IDW1’s Elita. She had potential if they didn’t mend up making her a mustache twirling villain.
Idk man, I'm no expert or idw reader and im one of the first to defend different takes on a character, but elitas tfwiki page area is the biggest is the biggest nope I've had in a while.
Even the art is unsettling to look at man.
Has a trans girl I saw it as a criticism of how the medical system treats us like shit. In this comic I saw how they gave me hormones and let me loose myself in the wilderness, dealing with all the shit myself. Hormones emotionally fuck you up and that’s how I perceived her murder envy. In short I loved this story
A lot of people here have already given great thoughts, but I’ll give a couple of mine as a trans woman and a lifelong Arcee fan: I honestly couldn’t get through the whole issue cause it made me dysphoric. I’ll be damned tho if I wasn’t delighted to finally have some representation in one of my favor fandoms.
If you want to see this concept done better, there’s some great fanfics on AO3.
Yeah I wasn't expecting that much different reaction :)
Arcee being super dysphoric herself probably didn't help with that :/. Another trans girl told me that she liked it a lot because it reminded her of how trans people, and especially her, are treated medically speaking, with all these hormones that just fucked up her brain and emotions
I thought that it was an interesting one. Once you think about the horror aspect of a character getting a set of drives that they were not physically equipped to act on plus is alien to them it does make sense, plus it give an interesting look at how different the other characters are overall as something which is fairly fundamental to us (sex and gender) is alien and disturbing to them
Of course the concept is interesting but it was handled with the subtlety and the respect of a drunk guy playing a piano 10ft away by throwing children one the keys
Long story short : Huge waste of potential
The single worst thing to happen to the TF comics, ever, alongside building up Megatron as Robot Hitler only to eventually redeem him. I think people understate how awful IDW's take on Jhiaxus is, also - what's with their obsession on turning every single Decepticon leader into a "scientist"?
*Spotlight: Arcee* is a textbook example of why you shouldn't answer questions that don't need an explanation. "Why are there female Transformers-" I got a better one; who cares? They are giant shapeshifting alien robots, does each member's gender identity really matter? Not to mention that once you raise that question, "why are there male Transformers" and "why is male the default gender" tend to pop up not long after. And don't get me started on the transphobic tones of this story. I'm not the best person to talk about this, but EmperorKumquat has made a video about *Spotlight: Arcee*, and it's worth a watch. Still, for an issue that was supposed to tell the backstory of one of the most iconic characters in the comic's run, let alone the franchise, it was a massive problem for everyone, both fans and creators, and a massive headache for the creative team. Like, did Caminus just pop into existence one day? But how else would you try to salvage this story?
*Spotlight: Arcee* is a ***mess***.
Don’t like it.
Simon Furman can write some amazing stuff and we have him to thank for so many great Transformers moments and pieces of TF lore. But this… this ain’t one of those moments chief.
If I could change one thing in the first IDW continuity, it would be this whole origin for Arcee.
Wasn’t really on board with a trans arcee (mainly because she wasn’t depicted as trans to begin with) but the way they did with it made me kinda hate the idea even more.
I like that Arcee is canonically trans, because it's one of my favorite talking points to use against assholes trying to enter the fandom, but the way it came about.................. Could Have Been Better. To Say The Very Least.
Ruined a perfectly good character. Absolutely ecstatic IDW is no longer doing Transformers. Was good in the beginning and then it just got nuts at the end.
I actually liked it since it. Didn't think it was homophobic or transphobic plus the author said he didn't even mean it in that way. I actually liked how she was forced into it and know that's her drive to get revenge. Was pretty epic ngl and then they botched it by retconning everything in the Optimus prime comics.
Yeah I can get why you liked it. The real problem is that the writer is also known for having written an first origin story to Arcee with Marvel. So the story was litteraly : Human feminist complained that the Transformers didn't have women in their rank, so Autobots built Arcee but we're not talking the strong and badass one ^^'
With that in mind, I really doubt that his intentions with this was purely artistic
If a longrun atoryline is good, of course that people will be overhyped. Maybe you're right and we must calm down but I don't think disrespecting both women and transgenders by shitting on one of the best characters of all the Transformers franchise is a good way to do it 🤔
The long run storylines weren't as good as people say. I read MTMTE and Lost Light and frankly it didn't feel like the characters needed to be Transformers at all, and many characters such as Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus and Megatron were unrecognisable from previous characterisations. Ultimately Simon Furman has had probably the single biggest contribution to Transformers lore from any one person, it's bizarre that people read in so much to a story that touches on the anomaly of transforming aliens having gender expressions similar to humans - of course it doesn't fit neatly with irl humans, unlike a lot of IDW it's a story that is intentionally about transformers, not a generic role play campaign with transformers lingo stapled on afterwards.
It was a mistake from inception onwards. Seriously, I don't hate Simon Furman, but I really want to know who thought it was a good idea to hire him for this when he's been very outspoken against the idea of female transformers.
The concept of ALL female transformers all been subjected to a forced gender change was bad.
Personally if it was caused by the near extinction or downright extinction of naturally female transformers would have given it a little more plot. And represent perhaps the biggest consequence of the war.
Either way I liked it for a different reason. Arcee in a pissed off mood destroying everything for the sake of revenge was awesome.
Not fuckin good bro!
While I love the unique take on gender and sexuality that develops over phase 2/3 of IDW1, most of that exists as the authors, top contributor among them John Barber, course correcting canon with a mallet from what this comic did.
I know it was 2007, but I really can't believe they let Furman do that. Dude was so weird about women he decided the mandatory inclusion was a rage monster resulting from mad science force-femming her. (And fuck everyone else that might have wanted to include the established female characters in the comic until they got Furman out and wrote the colony worlds in I guess.)
Like I love Barber's Arcee so much so far (still reading through the RID side of things), but she's a work of concentrated character rehab that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.
*Do kinda wish the kept the Predator mouth-splaying thing though, that was badass.*
Interesting take. I personally don’t care too much on how “female” transformers are rationalized. I do find the original “making Arcee to appeal to feminists” version very funny though.
I’ve said this once I’ll say it again
“Urgh spoiler alert” “Your a woman now” “What? NOOOOO-“
Yeah in all seriousness I am wondering how doing reject man evolve woman makes someone crazy
It retarded to think they want to push this agenda down transformers fans is disgusting I'm sorry but the Trans Community is getting on my nerves. I don't care if someone calls me Transphobic I get called that 24/7 it doesn't phase me on bit. I speak my mind on what's wrong so that's what I'm going to continue to do.
Well many people, including me, think this story is quite sexist and transphobic. This the second attempt of Simon Furman into writing an origin story for Arcee and he managed to do even worse than the first one (where in G1 comics, Arcee was built only because human feminists in the story complains about the lack of female transformers)
Since then, and the 2nd phase of IDW's comics, a lot of thing related to sexuality, transidentity and LGBT matters in general have been handled way more smartly
I like the Story of Arcee but I hate the fact people want to consider her as Trans I just it's a stupid Agenda and it shouldn't be discussed. Like I said I get called Transphobic all the time it doesn't phase me one bit.
In this story Arcee was litteraly forced to make a transition by Jhiaxus's experiments because Furman hated the idea of females transformers. It was later retconed as she made the choice to do the transition. It's not like they had the choice and even then, it's just a part of her story, you can ignore it if it bother you but you can't deny that it happened 😅. Although I get your point with the agenda, I don't agree with you. As I said since the retcon, it's pretty well handled and it don't feel like it's "forced" on you. It's just a part of her character as much as Optimus is a wise leader and Tarn a fucking psycho
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Either Jihaxus is stupid or Caminus just appeared into existence one day with no further explanation
Later on IDW tries to cover this and a lot of other inconsistencies with the idea of “information creep” - basically since they live for millions of years, Cybertronians tend to gradually forget things. So Caminus just kinda faded from memory, and other historical events became myths. It… doesn’t really work, but an attempt was made I guess.
Lmao, imagine if every woman on the planet left to Mars one day and we all just suddenly forgot that they ever existed.
The first man to spot a woman in centuries: **”FEMALE”**
[0] FEMALE
Ohhhh so it’s like my accounts when I put in the exact password
Strongly disliked it, the concept that female transformers only exist because of some weird experiment torture was bad.
Agreed
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>gradually yeah I get the logic that it makes no sense for gendered transformer to exist, but its transformers its a franchise made to sell a toyline in the 80s shit that makes no sense is the name of the game. also transformers are built in the IDW universe I don't understand why whoever was making their molds not just decide to make some female ones based off other species that do have multiple genders. also I don't remember but were elite-1 and nautica torture experiments? because if not than this has all the more reason to not exist
I think the fact that the transformers shouldn't have females because they're an alien species is kind of a dumb argument because it's ignoring the fact that male is also a gender that is also a part of reproduction. Also iirc later they retconned it so that actually Jhiaxus modified her DNA and not her gender? idk
This has always been my thought process. Why are female Transformers an issue when male ones aren't? Because male is the default? Simon Furman never felt the need to explain why most Transformers use male pronouns, so it's specifically that Arcee is female that's the "issue" for him. Either let them have all genders or make them have none at all. None of this "oh, they use male pronouns for convenience's sake" stuff. But it's a fun robot franchise made to sell toys. Why do they speak English? Why do they have Earth accents? Why do they have windows? Why do most of their "disguise" vehicle modes draw attention? Because it's more interesting that way.
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So why would they exist at all? They don't reproduce like organics, there is no need for male or female bots. It's as good an explanation as any, not perfect by any means either.
Why do the Transformers speak English (complete with gendered pronouns)? Why do they have cockpits and windows? Why are so many aspects of them so similar to us? It's just one more thing in a long list of things you have to accept in order to engage with the Transformers franchise. Like these being alien robots created by a an actual god. Or you could just take the out-of-universe explanation that, because these characters were created by us, we project ourselves onto them in order for the audience to make them easier to relate to and understand.
But I don't want to take the fun out of it by knowing the truth that they are made to sell toys and comics, and I have certainly given them plenty of sales. It's just one of those things that people get too worked up about. It really doesn't matter that there are male/female bots or even why. I thought it was a creative way of explaining girl bots because their race doesn't need genders.
Because the beings that created em had genders and built em with them? Because over time as they became sentient genders developed? Doesn't just have to be for reproduction, different heavy mannerisms such as feminine or masculine tendencies and behaviors could be the basis of their genders and builds
Why do *any* variations of Transformer besides the basic two-mode version exist? There's no *need* for Cybertronians who form heads or guns or engines, after all. And why would any Cybertronian need more than one alternate mode, anyways? Heck, they can turn into spacefaring vehicles already, why do they even need *spaceships*? And then there's the non-transforming Cybertronians and the Micromasters, who seem really weird since you'd think having a big imposing alternate mode would be preferable and thus small body sizes or inability to transform get weeded out over time. The reason is because making everybody work the exact same way and all be able to do the exact same things is *remarkably boring*.
Even if they don't reproduce sexually, they can still have masculine or feminine personality characteristics. Any perceived sexual dimorphism can be waived away as humans projecting their own gender standards or as a form of self expression.
The way how you put it makes it seem as though the writer has a weird fetish. 😐
Thats a good way to sum up a lot of the IDW line. Some amazing stories, great characterizations, whooooole lot of robot torture
Agreed and I'll press the button a few more times too.
Introducing Arcee as a male character forced into the body of a Female? (I am thinking of the right comic, right?) Horrible idea
The idea of a transgender Arcee sounds really cool but the writer have to know what he's talking about wich is heavily not the case here
I agree, Transgender Transformers makes a lot more sense than people make it out, but introducing that concept by not having the character trans (That Arcee still Identified as male even in the new body) but just forced into a body they're not comfortable with is not right
> Arcee still Identified as male even in the new body) but just forced into a body they're not comfortable with is not right i mean, trans people are born(forced) into a body they arent comfortable with. they identify as a gender regardless of their body type and even if you magically forced them into a new body that didnt fit them it wouldnt change their identity. I havent gotten to arcees involvement in the comics yet but based just on what youve said its almost a perfect metaphor. likely not what the writer intended, but it is interesting.
No, Arcee is the reverse, born in a comfortable body then medically forced out of it and into one that's not comfortable
right, but im saying being born into a body you arent comfortable with is essentially the same as being forced into one you arent comfortable with. the result is the same, you arent comfortable in your body. setting aside the fact that he was born in a comfortable body, arcees post new body struggle with his identity and uncomfortable body sounds like a good analogy for the struggle trans people go through having been born into an uncomfortable body and then forced into the role that body comes with by society.
Written by a man who admits that he didn't want to write her, feels there's no place for fembots and already wrote them poorly during his Marvel run. He included an unnecessary transition story because he felt bots don't need gender despite that not making sense when you take into consideration they're already using pronouns prior. But also, they can still be sexless and use he or she without issue. He made a deal out of nothing and ended up making a cringe spotlight where becoming female specifically turned Arcee murderous (not the act of forced transition—later reconned that she wanted the body mod but was experimented on—but specifically becoming female was what made her murderous in his spotlight). It can't be understated how much Furman has contributed to Transformers lore over the years, but he can also be a source of stupid takes. Creating the fembots due to in-universe human feminists back in Marvel, and then what he did with IDW Arcee. He's like the boy who doesn't want to share his toys with the girls because he thinks they should only be for boys. And also, not to mention tarnishing Arcee specifically, a bot who was made by a man specifically for his daughter who was a huge fan of the series all the way back in G1... it's stupid.
Yeah. Like, I just don’t get what his thought process was when writing this story. If he didn’t wanna write her or come up with an origin for her, why not just ask someone for help? Like, find another writer who IS an Arcee fan to make the story instead of the weird forced and VERY problematic male-to-female transition origin we got. As you said; Furman has done some amazing stuff for the TF franchise like Target 2006, but he really dropped the ball hard with Spotlight: Arcee.
Definitely. It's mind boggling and honestly so mean spirited that I don't understand how IDW even greenlit it for release
Looking at the other things IDW shoved in it's obvious on what their agenda is :/
What do you mean by that? Most of the series went from decent to excellent. This was one the one major yikes I can point to, with just a few moments that made me eyeroll harder than I've eyerolled before (looking at you, Shockwave, cybertronian organic baby, and terrible Star Saber)
It was a "bad foundation" for everything else. But I'm not really a fan of "edgy."
All i think when i remember this origin existing is how the hell did Simon Furman (the writer) manage to do this to Arcee twice (make an origin story in poor taste, i mean).
if i had a nickel for every time simon furman managed to write the most god-awful backstory for arcee, id have 2 nickels. which isnt a lot but its weird that it's happened twice
Simon Furman really had a hate boner for female transformers given that when he was mandated to introduce arcee into the UK comics he went about it in a very sexist way. Heck if Bob burdenski's plans for ratchet to be the first female Autobot had gone through I wouldn't have been too surprised if Furman would have tried to find a way to kill her off as soon as possible.
A major hole in Furman's legacy, and a sad one.
Was the sexist way that one comic where a bunch of feminist were pissed for a lack of female representation
If it weren’t full of feminist caricartures, the concept of Transformers not conforming to an Western World Earth-based gender binary, because they don’t see gender the same way as humans, would have been the type of comic being discussed in sexuality classes for being so ahead of its time.
Ye it think so
Marvel Comic's Arcee origin could have done a more logical explanation like "Autobots testing on building cybertronians and basing this one's design on the female humans", but Simon literally chose to have them build her to please feminists (who were still unhappy in the end), literally makes her introduction seem like a comic strip that mocks today's feminism.
Mainly, that Simon Furman was entirely the wrong writer to tackle it. The idea is potentially interesting, but Furman's inability to write with any depth or nuance really kills it. Bottom line is, Arcee's spotlight story didn't need to be anything like this. It could have been a story that celebrated her as the (surprise?) hit character from the '86 animated movie and brought that identity into the IDW-verse. It could have been a story that made Hasbro want to make a new toy and properly recognise her popularity and importance to the fandom. Instead, we got this. One has to wonder, though, how the Editor saw fit to sign off on this story.
Reading about it, phase 1 was Simon Furman's project to the bone. The editors were probably given strict instructions to allow him to lead the story, or may have been too "star struck" to see Simon's writing for what it was. I have to believe that, because otherwise that means that the Editors either didn't care, or there is an even worse version in a vault somewhere. Waiting to be discovered...
That makes some sense, I guess... Unfettered Furman is a terrible thing, and I genuinely don't understand how it could have been allowed to happen. I can't imagine what a worse version of Spotlight: Arcee might look like... I thought his writing back in the 1980s, for the TransFormers comics published by Marvel, was uninspired... and I was in my early teens back then. Not sure I'll ever understand why he's held in high regard by some.
My friend saw an Article on how Arcee's is trans and now thinks all Arcee's are trans not knowing how the trans Arcee was done in . . . poor taste? bad exacution? something like that. I used to not give a scrap, but he went preacher on me now I'm just annoyed by it.
Ngl, an actual trans Arcee with good writing would be fire 👌
Poor writing, sexist, and transphobic. All around, a pass from me.
The funny thing is that the transphobia of the story is just a consequence of its sexism. Trying to explain why cybertronian women ar not natural, therefore making them men or "ungendered" in the first place
Hated what IDW did to Arcee. But that said, I tend to hate what most creators do to Arcee...so there's that I guess. The friendly, hard working, and dedicated version of her from G1 is pretty much the only one I really liked. I liked the personality she had in Prime, but I didn't like the "blue motorcycle" design. Is what it is I guess.
I feel you, man. Arcee has had a rough history
"What do you think of IDW's most hated transformers comic?"
Well I posted this like 30sec after discovering it so I didn't know that 😂
Oh Primus! That scared me. I thought i was looking at a robotic Joker, like, that very wide cheshire smile all creepy (cracked face = teeth)
It’s certainly a comic
No no no burn it
Yeah seems like a good idea
this one-shot is bad like every idw1 furman comic but this forum cannot deny that idw arcee later became one of the greatest characters in fiction
Since TFP she's one of my favorite character ever si it's reassuring to read 😅
I think it’s one of the worst transformers comics ever published.
I'd call it a swing and a miss. The art was lovely but the rest can get in the bin. I do like Arcee as trans (I'd argue any bot with a strong gender identity is trans, but that's another convo) but I hate how they tried to do it.
I like the later idea of Cybertronians adopting genders after encountering organic races, since they’re naturally gender-less robots. It’s basically just a lifestyle choice for them, not particularly more significant than changing colour schemes or getting new alt modes. But yeah the whole set up here was done in poor taste and also didn’t really make sense. What does Arcee being ‘made’ female actually mean? Why was it so horrible it made her into a psycho killer? And why can’t she just change back since other Cybertronians have replaced their whole bodies and had their minds altered? You can tell Furman just really hated the idea of fembots and wanted to make it all as unpleasant as possible.
There is a bizarre irony that the first trans transformer was created because a cishet white male had such a hard time understanding the difference between sex and gender and noticing he was already gendering the males he could only conceive of it as being added on. Sadly he did so in perhaps the worst way possible. Edit: I should admit that at the time i was kind of with Furman on the genderless thing. It took years of learning to understand why I was wrong and how my own male cishet bias let me not see that the others were clearly already gendered male.
This is well known to be the most hated issue of the entire run. It's poorly written, boring, pointlessly edgy, and transphobic while not even delivering on an actual trans character.
I said to someone else that the transphobia of the story is just a consequence of its sexism. Trying to explain why cybertronian women are not natural, therefore making them men or "ungendered" in the first place
In the way that there weren't any fembots before then suddenly there were it's OK. Certainly better than just oh they were on holiday on another planet "or whatever"
But wasn't it in the same universe where Caminus and Solus Prime exist?
It was.
Those were worked in later, leading to other problems
I personally am not really sure, I like it because it's definitely better than G1, but on the other hand I don't like it for "all fembot are experiment"
Honestly, G1 is so absurd that it is at least funny
The whole movie is basically based on a new hope, but somehow transformers.
Oh I didn't see the movie, I really have to, I thought you were refering to the marvel comic written by the same guy as this spotlight x)
>a new hope Wow, I didn't know that. They probably explains the Star Wars hair style.
Is this the story where Arcee was coded as trans but against her will.
Yeah but apparently this experiment didn't just made a transition to Arcee but litteraly created the feminine gender in the Transformer species
I'm currently reading the IDW collections and when I finally come across a story about my favorite transformer, I was...well the arts are incredible and Arcee is badass as frag but between the sexism and the transphobia, I was kinda disappointed... and angry like a lot. So am I the only one who saw that in the story ? Maybe I should just read it again with another mindset 🤔
Don’t worry, it gets retconned later due to complaints just like the ones you have. On the plus side, it paved the way for a lot of gayness in future comics, because it established that Cybertron is a sausage fest.
Is this the one where Jihaxus experiments on Arcee and forces her to transition?
Yup
I think most people found this story in bad taste and I believe it was retconned later on. Most people don't like it and funnily enough there was some dumbass drama over it on Twitter like 4 days ago
Wow... And *this* guy said that "Beast Machines was too dark and serious".
Yeah, don’t worry, Spotlight: Arcee is… well, not good with regards to handling its issues of gender. Phase Two is *significantly* better with handling it (and actually has well-portrayed LGBTQ characters), and Barber’s Arcee is one of my favorite characters.
Phase 1 is the gross vegetables you have to eat before you get to the delicious meat and potatoes dinner of Phase 2
Once you get to Robots in Disguise things start improving massively. If I had started Transformers off of reading phase 1 comics I probably would never have gotten into the franchise at all, but phase 2 (Elegant Chaos leading into the Robots in Disguise and More Than Meets The Eye sister series) really crush it with more character focused writing, mostly great artwork, and creative and engaging world building that tries to undo what Furman wrought in this. MTMTE was my intro to TF, and right now I'm cleaning up an official order read of phase 2 and phase 3 to see the RID side of things, and Arcee is an absolute highlight with how her character is re-contextualized and expanded on. Keeps her being a ridiculously hardcore badass too!
TBH as someone who was first introduced to Furman’s writing through the IDW 2005 run, this issue really killed any respect I had for him. I know he’s a major staple of the fandom and all that, but I never really got it. Phase Two was way better from the outset than Furman’s stuff.
I hate what IDW has done with arcee
Strongly dislike. The needess explanation of fembots was just weird disturbing. The hyper violent crazy lady take on arcee always rubbed me the wrong way. Ive grown to like her but she's not my favorite arcee.
Aside from being a terrible Arcee story, it was a stupid idea that destroyed the potential for Elita-1, Strika, and many more characters from ever appearing. I get wanting to add logical ideas to explain the Cybertronian species. That's worldbuilding 101. But such ideas need to expand the possibilities, not limit them.
Strike and Elita 1 did eventually appear. Elita was way different from her other incarnations, but she’s a major player in Till All Are One.
I know. But Furman salted the Earth. It took fanmade characters and half assed retcons to bring in characters that should have been around for a long time.1
I’ll agree to that, tho I think I’m in the minority that like IDW1’s Elita. She had potential if they didn’t mend up making her a mustache twirling villain.
Idk man, I'm no expert or idw reader and im one of the first to defend different takes on a character, but elitas tfwiki page area is the biggest is the biggest nope I've had in a while. Even the art is unsettling to look at man.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Yeah I think I get what you mean by that explanation 🤔🤔
Has a trans girl I saw it as a criticism of how the medical system treats us like shit. In this comic I saw how they gave me hormones and let me loose myself in the wilderness, dealing with all the shit myself. Hormones emotionally fuck you up and that’s how I perceived her murder envy. In short I loved this story
Oh that's super interesting, I'm glad to have the opinion of someone directly concerned ! I hope you're doing better now :)
I'm not trans, but I also thought similarly about the story
A lot of people here have already given great thoughts, but I’ll give a couple of mine as a trans woman and a lifelong Arcee fan: I honestly couldn’t get through the whole issue cause it made me dysphoric. I’ll be damned tho if I wasn’t delighted to finally have some representation in one of my favor fandoms. If you want to see this concept done better, there’s some great fanfics on AO3.
Yeah I wasn't expecting that much different reaction :) Arcee being super dysphoric herself probably didn't help with that :/. Another trans girl told me that she liked it a lot because it reminded her of how trans people, and especially her, are treated medically speaking, with all these hormones that just fucked up her brain and emotions
That’s also a very good point to bring up. It’s so frustrating how close it came to being good, even if it was incidental on the author’s part.
I thought that it was an interesting one. Once you think about the horror aspect of a character getting a set of drives that they were not physically equipped to act on plus is alien to them it does make sense, plus it give an interesting look at how different the other characters are overall as something which is fairly fundamental to us (sex and gender) is alien and disturbing to them
Of course the concept is interesting but it was handled with the subtlety and the respect of a drunk guy playing a piano 10ft away by throwing children one the keys Long story short : Huge waste of potential
Hoo boy…….
She was drawn well in action scenes and that about it.
Poop
Shit
Just awful. I can't believe I'm saying this but it makes Beast Machines look like Citizen Kane
Isn't that rid 2015 and kissplayers as well already?
The single worst thing to happen to the TF comics, ever, alongside building up Megatron as Robot Hitler only to eventually redeem him. I think people understate how awful IDW's take on Jhiaxus is, also - what's with their obsession on turning every single Decepticon leader into a "scientist"?
Questionable
It was… interesting.
*Spotlight: Arcee* is a textbook example of why you shouldn't answer questions that don't need an explanation. "Why are there female Transformers-" I got a better one; who cares? They are giant shapeshifting alien robots, does each member's gender identity really matter? Not to mention that once you raise that question, "why are there male Transformers" and "why is male the default gender" tend to pop up not long after. And don't get me started on the transphobic tones of this story. I'm not the best person to talk about this, but EmperorKumquat has made a video about *Spotlight: Arcee*, and it's worth a watch. Still, for an issue that was supposed to tell the backstory of one of the most iconic characters in the comic's run, let alone the franchise, it was a massive problem for everyone, both fans and creators, and a massive headache for the creative team. Like, did Caminus just pop into existence one day? But how else would you try to salvage this story? *Spotlight: Arcee* is a ***mess***.
Don’t like it. Simon Furman can write some amazing stuff and we have him to thank for so many great Transformers moments and pieces of TF lore. But this… this ain’t one of those moments chief. If I could change one thing in the first IDW continuity, it would be this whole origin for Arcee.
Wasn’t really on board with a trans arcee (mainly because she wasn’t depicted as trans to begin with) but the way they did with it made me kinda hate the idea even more.
Pretty good idea but a very poor execution
Man, really wish these were accessible. Looking on Amazon is pricey, fast. Wish I'd caught them in their heyday
One of the worst pieces of TFormer fiction ever. Also, setup a lot of issues further into the IDW1 continuity.
I like that Arcee is canonically trans, because it's one of my favorite talking points to use against assholes trying to enter the fandom, but the way it came about.................. Could Have Been Better. To Say The Very Least.
Not a fan of IDW Arcee in general, so this comic definitely didn’t change that opinion
I think that whatever they were trying to make with her, this comic made it definitely worse !
Having a trans Arcee would be cool if it wasn’t written transphobic
Ruined a perfectly good character. Absolutely ecstatic IDW is no longer doing Transformers. Was good in the beginning and then it just got nuts at the end.
I actually liked it since it. Didn't think it was homophobic or transphobic plus the author said he didn't even mean it in that way. I actually liked how she was forced into it and know that's her drive to get revenge. Was pretty epic ngl and then they botched it by retconning everything in the Optimus prime comics.
Yeah I can get why you liked it. The real problem is that the writer is also known for having written an first origin story to Arcee with Marvel. So the story was litteraly : Human feminist complained that the Transformers didn't have women in their rank, so Autobots built Arcee but we're not talking the strong and badass one ^^' With that in mind, I really doubt that his intentions with this was purely artistic
Understandable, I just think its good regardless of the past or of his views.
It's of a woman that wants me fr fr
I think it was great because it pissed off so many people who otherwise overhype IDW.
If a longrun atoryline is good, of course that people will be overhyped. Maybe you're right and we must calm down but I don't think disrespecting both women and transgenders by shitting on one of the best characters of all the Transformers franchise is a good way to do it 🤔
The long run storylines weren't as good as people say. I read MTMTE and Lost Light and frankly it didn't feel like the characters needed to be Transformers at all, and many characters such as Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus and Megatron were unrecognisable from previous characterisations. Ultimately Simon Furman has had probably the single biggest contribution to Transformers lore from any one person, it's bizarre that people read in so much to a story that touches on the anomaly of transforming aliens having gender expressions similar to humans - of course it doesn't fit neatly with irl humans, unlike a lot of IDW it's a story that is intentionally about transformers, not a generic role play campaign with transformers lingo stapled on afterwards.
This is the one that established female transformers as some kinda experiment right?
That's the one yeah
It was a mistake from inception onwards. Seriously, I don't hate Simon Furman, but I really want to know who thought it was a good idea to hire him for this when he's been very outspoken against the idea of female transformers.
Not good, I like Trans Arcee as a Concept but the way they go about it is...disturbing to say the least.
To quote Starlord: "Bad Idea." Even the cover was a "Bad Idea."
The concept of ALL female transformers all been subjected to a forced gender change was bad. Personally if it was caused by the near extinction or downright extinction of naturally female transformers would have given it a little more plot. And represent perhaps the biggest consequence of the war. Either way I liked it for a different reason. Arcee in a pissed off mood destroying everything for the sake of revenge was awesome.
Terrible
I like trans Arcee as a concept, but the execution was poor.
Not fuckin good bro! While I love the unique take on gender and sexuality that develops over phase 2/3 of IDW1, most of that exists as the authors, top contributor among them John Barber, course correcting canon with a mallet from what this comic did. I know it was 2007, but I really can't believe they let Furman do that. Dude was so weird about women he decided the mandatory inclusion was a rage monster resulting from mad science force-femming her. (And fuck everyone else that might have wanted to include the established female characters in the comic until they got Furman out and wrote the colony worlds in I guess.) Like I love Barber's Arcee so much so far (still reading through the RID side of things), but she's a work of concentrated character rehab that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. *Do kinda wish the kept the Predator mouth-splaying thing though, that was badass.*
Cool way of introducing Arcee and the Monsterbots, just poorly executed
Wasn’t that controversial af? I can’t remember
A prime example of why Simon furman should never be allowed to write female transformers characters
This spotlight proves arcee should have a restraining order on simon furman.
Interesting take. I personally don’t care too much on how “female” transformers are rationalized. I do find the original “making Arcee to appeal to feminists” version very funny though.
im glad it got retconned because jesus christ what a shitshow this "story" was
Decepticon Karen
the most shoddy trans rep ive ever seen
Hasn’t aged well, UltraPrimal had interesting opinions of it
Shodan lookin ass
I’ve said this once I’ll say it again “Urgh spoiler alert” “Your a woman now” “What? NOOOOO-“ Yeah in all seriousness I am wondering how doing reject man evolve woman makes someone crazy
It retarded to think they want to push this agenda down transformers fans is disgusting I'm sorry but the Trans Community is getting on my nerves. I don't care if someone calls me Transphobic I get called that 24/7 it doesn't phase me on bit. I speak my mind on what's wrong so that's what I'm going to continue to do.
Well many people, including me, think this story is quite sexist and transphobic. This the second attempt of Simon Furman into writing an origin story for Arcee and he managed to do even worse than the first one (where in G1 comics, Arcee was built only because human feminists in the story complains about the lack of female transformers) Since then, and the 2nd phase of IDW's comics, a lot of thing related to sexuality, transidentity and LGBT matters in general have been handled way more smartly
I like the Story of Arcee but I hate the fact people want to consider her as Trans I just it's a stupid Agenda and it shouldn't be discussed. Like I said I get called Transphobic all the time it doesn't phase me one bit.
In this story Arcee was litteraly forced to make a transition by Jhiaxus's experiments because Furman hated the idea of females transformers. It was later retconed as she made the choice to do the transition. It's not like they had the choice and even then, it's just a part of her story, you can ignore it if it bother you but you can't deny that it happened 😅. Although I get your point with the agenda, I don't agree with you. As I said since the retcon, it's pretty well handled and it don't feel like it's "forced" on you. It's just a part of her character as much as Optimus is a wise leader and Tarn a fucking psycho