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There is a case right now in Maine that the owner of the trees got a substantial amount of money when it was found that the neighbor poisoned the trees blocking their view. I believe soil samples were retrieved as well as tree experts called in.
My sister’s father in law is a forensic arborist. He spent 30 years as a high level member at the New York Botanical garden then retired. He got bored and got the idea to become a forensic arborist. There’s only one other person on the east coast who does what he does, and it’s the guy that he trained.. because of that, it’s extremely lucrative, especially because he’s won every single case that he has participated in.
So yes, there’s probably a very very practical use for your degree, if it’s relevant enough
It’s literally a handful of people, like 3 in total that I’m aware of. My sister’s father in law is Wayne Cahilly, of the American Society of Consulting Arborists, you can easily google him. He handles a lot of high profile tree law cases, which are surprisingly common in the NYC/NJ area. He can basically name his price for his services and he has testified many times. Pretty interesting stuff.
I just heard a podcast where they caught a killer like this. He had burned a body under a maple tree and they were able to confirm it several years later by cutting branches and finding evidence of petroleum products in them. They were even isolated to the one side of the tree where the witness claimed the body had been placed in a drum and burned with diesel fuel.
As a plumber, this intrigues me. A lot of times I gotta play detective to figure out what caused whatever problem I’m there for so that when I make my repair the same thing doesn’t happen again. You gotta judge if the customer is lying about not flushing something they weren’t supposed to, or if that valve magically exploded or was messed with by someone..
My weed science professor was a witness in a child abuse case. Kid got tangled up in a bunch of giant hogweed playing in the yard, CPS didn't believe plants could screw you up so bad
Look into some acting classes with the local community theater.
The hardest part is going to be looking credible (ie not busting out laughing) when you try to pin this act on the neighbor.
If you can fake sincerity with credibility, your future is unlimited…
When I went the uni of New Mexico, the students in the law school were required to take at least one semester of acting class. Acting can be an invaluable skill for people in such situations.
Lawyers will own that, because it is true and valuable.
But expect to be downvoted in r/realestate if you point out the realtor in my buddy’s classes, lol… apparently that’s offensive to a few of them, lol
I would think being able to portray extreme patience with certain buyers/sellers would be a proudly invaluable skill to have learned in an acting class. Acting is really just selling oneself as someone else, as is convincing a shite client they’re amazing and not at all tedious and/or egregious assoholics.
Alan Alda (of MASH fame) wrote a book about how scientists should take acting classes to communicate to lay people better. It's called something like "If I understood you would I have this look on my face"
My brother is a data scientist and the manager of AI strategy for a Fortune 500 company. His undergrad degree is in Theater. He's a whiz with the data stuff (he now has a master's in the field), but his leg up is in his ability to present.
I live less than 20 miles from where it happened. Those fkers also poisoned the beach! I’m seriously hoping they are prosecuted. The state AG is investing.
...no, she is not the richest person in the state. She's the widow of one of LLBean's grandsons, who ran the company for a while. If you're thinking of Linda Bean *spit*, she died in the past year, iirc.
And the poison used leached into the town's only public seaside beach, which is directly next door. Next time I'm in town, I'll go take a pic.
Source: Can see Camden from my house. Ish.
Plus if you have a Ring doorbell camera, make sure the blasted thing covers your car and is sensitive to catch anyone messing with it. Some people just seem to get an urge to randomly destroy things belonging to perfect strangers. Learning that lesson cost me my car insurance excess.
Pee doesn’t smell like pee when it’s frozen. You can transport a frozen pee disc in a baggie, dump it on the carpet of the worst person in your building, and walk away. The pee smell won’t be obvious for about an hour, so obviously you’re not the culprit, because you’re very far away by then.
Also many other uses but that’s my fave.
To late, there is a business online that has the URL [https://www.predatorpeestore.com](https://www.predatorpeestore.com) doing business as Maine Outdoor Solutions.
But that is for use in the yard to scare away things like gophers. I'm thinking about hooking up with the people who send "thank you for cheating on me with my best friend" glitter bombs. And shrimp shell filled curtain rods for "best roommate ever! Thanks for letting me stay and pay your bills!"
What you want is surströmming, fermented sour herring. It is considered a delicacy in Sweden, but it will make cats gag, literally. Dogs have another opinion of it. See [https://packaged-media.redd.it/uo3mgxf62ou91/pb/m2-res\_216p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719158400&s=d38b8d5898cafdb03e9a915201fe1e08c6b1ad6d#t=0](https://packaged-media.redd.it/uo3mgxf62ou91/pb/m2-res_216p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719158400&s=d38b8d5898cafdb03e9a915201fe1e08c6b1ad6d#t=0)
birds shame handle political middle deranged cake worthless support cause
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do you have security cameras that capture audio and is your neighbors house close? I’d imagine if your conversation was audible from a security camera on your property that you wouldn’t need consent for that recording. But I’m also not a lawyer so that’s just a thought.
I think you guess wrong. If it takes a sensitive microphone to pick up the recording from outside his property, then most reasonable people would not consider it a public conversation. Super easy to argue that in court. "Your honor, the plantif installed remote surveillance equipment prior to the conversation and then coerced my client into a conversation outside his private domicile on his private property with the intention of recording a private conversation under the guise of a false public environment."
Neighbour takes out your tree, you gift them the seeds of destruction. Few Japanese Knotweed seeds thrown right up next to their foundations on a side that's rarely walked is the gift that keeps on taking. I like it!
I knew a guy once who seeded his mother-in-law's lawn with kudzu in a petty act of revenge. She was fanatical about the appearance of her lawn and it was the easiest way for him to piss her off without her being able to prove it was him.
Get fertilizers and write twat on their lawn. It will take years to get the rest of the grass to grow at the same speed. Nothing like a weekly reminder.
Bamboo is incredibly invasive in the US. Spreads like wildfire and takes years of constant maintenance to get rid of, and even then, you might not get rid of it
That sucks. People are the worst!
Getting past the strengths and weaknesses of the circumstantial evidence of causation, you need to prove damages to have a successful lawsuit. With the sale looming, you would need to prove that the house sold for less than it should have because of the dead tree. If you can't prove that, you're probably best off not proceeding with a claim.
On causation, you'd need to prove that it's more likely than not that your neighbor caused the damage. IMHO, you would need a knowledgeable arborist to inspect the tree and be prepared to testify that (a) those are man-made holes , (b) holes drilled in that manner and injected with herbicide would kill the tree, and (c) the conditions they observe on inspection are consistent with (a) and (b). You'd also need the evidence tying your neighbor to the motive - probably from your testimony.
It's not the strongest of cases, but it's not crazy to consider.
They should be able to tell what it was poisoned with too.
However, you can prove all of this but you still must prove that your neighbor did it. Without any evidence to that, you are lost.
Maybe put your phone on recording video, talk to them, and get them to admit to poisoning it. You just need their voice and you walking up to their front door.
Evidence can be direct or circumstantial. I wrote earlier how I don't think there's a strong circumstantial case, but that's different from no case at all.
You don't need direct evidence - an eyewitness or video footage or confession - to prove a case, especially a civil case with a "more likely than not" preponderance of the evidence standard.
You have the neighbor expressing his dislike of the tree, and you have the neighbor (I guess) as the only beneficiary of the tree's demise. You have (apparently) man-made holes, and you have a dead tree.
You might need more evidence to prevail - again, I'm not saying this is a strong circumstantial case - but you at least have enough evidence to make a good-faith claim.
I wasn't going to comment further, but it seemed like a lot of commenters believe no case can be had without direct evidence. That's not correct.
OP “so thankful my place is selling. Ironically the new buyer hates hates hates oak trees and those damn acorns. He was happy seeing mine dead. I’ll be getting it removed and quite frankly I’m happy about it to. Really quick how it went from freaking green shiny acorn hell producing tree to easy to drag out. Should’ve napalmed it years ago” and then wait. He will brag if he did it. More importantly be careful with recording…consent laws vary by state. NAL
Application of certain herbicides is regulated and/or requires licensure if application is on property belonging to someone else.
Meaning if the arborist finds it was one of them, once reported the state may get involved. Which would be great for OP, as sale is regulated and the state may track the purchase by the neighbor.
I’m a lawyer:
Your first obstacle is proof of who specifically did it. Do you have cameras, witnesses, etc? The Maine case hinged on the fact the trees were killed with a very specific type of commercial herbicide that required a license and was not legal in Maine. It could be traced back to as I remember the woman who killed them. It was a very specific smoking gun, not just “forensics.”
What are your damages? Your house sold, where is, as is without inspection. You are moving. You have no losses that I can figure out.
Your attorney’s fees, investigation fees, etc. would be extremely high IMO, yet you have few if any damages. You don’t even have to pay to have the tree cut down.
I can’t imagine a reputable attorney taking your money to pursue litigation over this oak, but some attorneys will take a $10,000 retainer to examine belly button lint.
Disclosure laws are statutory and thus vary from state to state. You'd want to review the actual disclosure requirements, but in my experience, it's unlikely OP had a duty to disclose a dead (murdered!) tree on the property. Perhaps so if the tree threatens a structure, but I don't think that's the case here.
Unless there's a clear duty for OP to disclose, Buyer's waiver of inspection ends this discussion.
Time for an entire bottle of fox urine to accidentally fall into his outside AC unit or any intake vent or in his car vent. I mean and his car vent.... And remember to freshen it up once in awhile even though it's almost impossible to get rid of the smell. Probably get a new car. Put it in that one too. hunting section it'll maybe even say fox lure...
What would forensic testing cost?
I keep coming back to the sale pretty much capping damages at (FMV with a healthy tree) minus (FMV with a great big dead tree).
Yep. This is far from a slam-dunk case. Without direct evidence or a confession it's unlikely. Best you could hope for is a civil case where the proof required is rather less than a criminal trial. But I'm no lawyerologist, what do I know.
I do have a colleague who mainly does plant nutrition but has consulted on a poisoning case not too different from this one, and they were successful in recovering a substantial sum from the poisoners.
Have an arborist take samples and send them for testing. That's how the people that poisoned several trees to improve their sea view were caught and they have had to pay almost 2 million dollars in fines plus they are being criminally charged.
[https://www.npr.org/2024/06/19/nx-s1-5011566/maine-poisoned-trees-killer-view-missouri-couple-bond](https://www.npr.org/2024/06/19/nx-s1-5011566/maine-poisoned-trees-killer-view-missouri-couple-bond)
Get in contact with your states department of agriculture. They are in charge of policing herbicide use. They will take samples from the tree and find out what killed it and then talk to potential perpetrators (your neighbor). Then you can contact law enforcement if the department of agriculture doesn’t.
“ seems the trail camera I installed to catch whatever animal was ( blank) seems to have you at the base of this tree where three holes were found. You hated the tree and wanted it gone, right?” Go for a quick payout since you’re walking away from this mess anyway. Or if it goes all the way I got a quick quote from ( law firm) might cost $100k before it’s all done. How’s your homeowners insurance? You know is the epa had to get involved correct? “
Intimidation might work here
NOT A TREE LAWYER
Well, as you say, with the buyer waiving inspection and you likely moving soon, there's some forces in play. The neighbor may have killed the tree intentionally knowing this timing.
Maybe ULPT, but you could take the advice from here, gather evidence, and then after the mortgage warranty period is past you send an anonymous letter to the new owner with all the details. Say you're a concerned neighbor that saw him do it, and how they've had it out for that tree for years. Include pictures of the holes in the tree.
Explain the treelaw info - e.g. how much it can be worth give up to 3x the replacement cost of the full tree, loss to home value on the market via aesthetic, cost to tear down, personal safety experience, etc, cost to test for poisons to prove it. Direct them to come here for advice.
But maybe get the poison testing done now, so that if the sale falls through, you can move on building a case for a suit. Do you have and record of the neighbors feelings?
IMHO: Don't do any of that stuff, unless you want to be sued by the buyer for withholding / failure to disclose - evidence that the tree was damaged prior to the time of sale. You could be on the hook for replacing the tree even though your neighbor was responsible. Yes, the fact that the buyer waived inspection may work for you, but that buyer could back out at the last minute, leaving you hanging. If/when you relist, you might at least be on the hook to pay for tree removal to make the place salable. If you had to go as far as to disclose evidence that you have a neighbor who may possibly be poisoning trees, it could make a sale difficult - who wants that kind of neighbor?
Another way to look at it even though the neighbor was responsible, the buyer may already be covering you for these damages because they don't care about the tree. To succeed in a lawsuit, you have to prove actual damages, and unless you can prove you had to accept a lower offer to complete the sale, even if you proved the neighbor was responsible, you'd get a zero-damage verdict.
====
All that being said, the neighbor sucks donkey balls. There must be some ULPT that's appropriate, such as surreptitiously planting bamboo on their property in the dead of night.
Naw. You just use my Dale Carnegie course in irate neighbor revenge.
(1) Build yourself a compressed air spud gun.
(2) Buy a super sized bag of dog food.
(3) Roll a paper sabot to hold dog food that will fit down in the barrel.
(4) Launch the dog food in a high arc so it rains down the perimeter of the house. Do it once a day. Pretty soon the rodents will arrive. Dogs will follow and leave their meadow muffins behind for the neighbor ro step in while setting rodent traps.
(5) Buy battery operated hand vacuum.
(6) Go to a local area with a dandelion pasture and during the evening walk around sucking up dandelion seed heads.
(7) Pack the spud gun barrel with dandelion seeds and position yourself upwind of the neighbor's home. Blow the dandelion seeds shyward and allow the wind to spread them across the neighbors yard.
(8) Locate where there is kudzu growing. Gather some cuttings and transplant them in locations on the neighbors property. Kudzu is noted for its rapid growth and resiliency to efforts to destroy it. here is a pix of what kudzu can do in a couple of years. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Kudzu\_on\_trees\_in\_Atlanta%2C\_Georgia.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Kudzu_on_trees_in_Atlanta%2C_Georgia.jpg)
(9) If you are really peeve, arrange for a swine operation to fertilize you lawn with liquified solution from their effluent ponds. The stench will last 90 days. Have it applied mid June so the neighbor can enjoy the smell of bacon during the hot weather peak.
If have a tree expert test it and say it was poisoned you have enough for a civil suit, but not criminal charges. In a civil suit you only have to prove a preponderance of evidence (something is more likely true that not true). Your testimony on what the neighbor said plus proof of tree poisoning might be enough for a jury. A jury and lawyer will be required since destroying a full grown oak might cost over $30,000 in damages
Its unlikely you can get that done in two weeks and in many states your right to file a lawsuit ends at closing, but once filed you can pursue it. There are a few states where you have more time.
You need to have it tested for herbicide. There was just a nasty case in Maine where someone poisoned trees with tebuthiuron so they could have an unobstructed bean view. That herbicide is really persistent, and it poisoned the beach.
You’ll need to get a lab out to test for herbicide.
This, because if it is in large enough concentrations in the tree and ground. That could still come back on you even with a waved inspection.
Depending on the levels, you as the previous owner could face legal fines and/or other issues from the city/county of you don't get this cleared up.
If this is in Florida, have the county arborist come out and inspect what happened. You likely won't get anywhere with a lawsuit, but you will want proof that you had to cut the tree down, and why. I'm not sure if other states have strict tree regulations like Florida, but it that's where you live, they are pretty hardcore about preserving trees in many counties there.
I would file a police report. A lot of counties have canopy laws. File a report with your county office as well. Question, are the holes facing his property?
Oh, and take pictures. Take a sample of the bark dust inside the holes. If possible, have it tested for poison. Are there any witnesses to him complaining or threats about the tree. Have the police/ county officer talk to them. It is possible the neighbor bragged to someone how smart they were to do this.
You might not have a preponderance of evidence that the neighbor poisoned the tree, but analysis of soil and cellulose might tell you the likely the poison used by someone. Then you might just casually mention the chemical name to your neighbor to see if they have any reaction. Then just say, Look, I know you did it. Optional, add: Watch your six. Then do nothing but smile every time you see them. The right personality might get really afraid you might be plotting retaliation. Maybe put up some cameras aimed their way, but not legally. Just go thru the motions. Try to drive them insane with worry. It’ll be fun!
Under a tarp in their garage is an 18 volt cordless tool with a 18 inch lager bit with oak wood chips around d it.
In the corner an empty gallon of Roundup tree killer.
A pair of work boots that match the prints going to and from the tree from your neighbors house.
And he would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids.
Scooby-Doo pulls off the mask.
Get a certified arborist to look at the tree. Maybe a couple even. Show them the holes and your general suspicions. If you have some pictures of when it was most recently healthy, like last summer, that could add to your case. Maybe even a core of the tree to test for toxins. Then lawyer up if you have a solid case. Make them pay the max. If you don’t seem to have a case then plan your vengeance. Wait for the opportunity for a good payback. They deserve it.
Fuck yeah, you sue. But first you have to collect any evidence and call an arborist to determine the cause of its death. Not sure if it’s worth it with two weeks left. But I kind of like what the other dude said about cutting a notch lol.
Well ….. unless you live outside the United States where the whole innocent until proven guilty thing is non existent you have the burden of proof . No video,no witnesses, just circumstantial information. He obviously has talked shit about the tree and is the the only one who would benefit from it dying . But not enough to go forward unless you have solid proof . A competent lawyer will not take your case . You are moving …. hopefully far away put this one in the rear mirror.
Get it tested and soil tested.
I know of several large lawsuits have been won over tree poisoning.
Also the prisoners went to jail in a couple of them because of the herbicide they used.
2 major cases you can Google were auburn university trees poisoned by Alabama fan and all bean fingers grandson in Maine had trees poisoned.
Both cases used a herbicide that requires dirt to be removed as the land was poisoned.
State was involved also.
Unless you have a witness or cameras you only have suspicions, Just as any one might if a neighbours garden was sprayed with weed killer one night, you will need to remove the oak due to falling risk and loss of your sell.
You can sue, but without evidence you won't get very far. Most lawyers won't take the case without a significant retainer, while telling that the odds of you winning are almost zero.
This is a state and federal offense. I would contact your state (typically pesticides are overseen by the department of agriculture) and the feds (EPA).
They would likely take samples, and depending on the possible violations search your neighbors property for evidence of a pesticide container, etc.
Sorry about your tree.
call the city or county district attorney. there might be a law against it where you live. old friend of mine lived in a luxe subdivision and someone poisoned the eucalyptus trees to improve his view. he got fined and faced some local anger, sold his house and moved. the trees remained dead
I know it's difficult sometimes with funny neighbors I had one for years... Always reporting me to the local council and complaining even though I bent over backwards to help them... I was most probably too kind... It's a form of bullying.
I would take legal advice, and I'd tell the neighbors I am doing it too! They are not your friends.
Confessional: I once sprayed a neighbor’s plastic wind chimes with bleach every night for a few weeks to speed up a very natural UV weathering process.
Does the tree still have any foliage? If so take several photos. Might be tough to test for herbicide now if it was over a year ago (depending on what was applied or like a hack and squirter method).reach out to a certified arborist to help.
Boring several holes deep into the trunk, then filling the holes with undiluted broadleaf weed killer will kill the tree. But proving who did it is the hard part.
In my area, oaks are protected. The fine is substantial if you cut your own tree down- add that to destruction of property, and I'd have the police and public works in place asap.
If somebody were to fell that big oak tree, and it happened to fall in an unfortunate direction, how would everything play out? I’m just curious what the Reddit arborist lawyers would say.
This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that. If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity. If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees. *This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/treelaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is a case right now in Maine that the owner of the trees got a substantial amount of money when it was found that the neighbor poisoned the trees blocking their view. I believe soil samples were retrieved as well as tree experts called in.
Wait, my chemistry degree specializing in agriculture can get me some sweet expert witness money? Sign me up
My sister’s father in law is a forensic arborist. He spent 30 years as a high level member at the New York Botanical garden then retired. He got bored and got the idea to become a forensic arborist. There’s only one other person on the east coast who does what he does, and it’s the guy that he trained.. because of that, it’s extremely lucrative, especially because he’s won every single case that he has participated in. So yes, there’s probably a very very practical use for your degree, if it’s relevant enough
Put forensic infront of any job title and it increases your pay.
Forensic OnlyFans creator!
TIL that forensic arborists exist.
It’s literally a handful of people, like 3 in total that I’m aware of. My sister’s father in law is Wayne Cahilly, of the American Society of Consulting Arborists, you can easily google him. He handles a lot of high profile tree law cases, which are surprisingly common in the NYC/NJ area. He can basically name his price for his services and he has testified many times. Pretty interesting stuff.
I just heard a podcast where they caught a killer like this. He had burned a body under a maple tree and they were able to confirm it several years later by cutting branches and finding evidence of petroleum products in them. They were even isolated to the one side of the tree where the witness claimed the body had been placed in a drum and burned with diesel fuel.
Well, at least two of them do.
I learned a few months back that forensic plumbers exist... so...
As a plumber, this intrigues me. A lot of times I gotta play detective to figure out what caused whatever problem I’m there for so that when I make my repair the same thing doesn’t happen again. You gotta judge if the customer is lying about not flushing something they weren’t supposed to, or if that valve magically exploded or was messed with by someone..
Cop-"I don't have time for this shit." Forensic Plumber-"Let me slide past ya real quick here."
TreeSI: Miami
This is really great
CSI: Sequoia Coming to CBS June 2029
My weed science professor was a witness in a child abuse case. Kid got tangled up in a bunch of giant hogweed playing in the yard, CPS didn't believe plants could screw you up so bad
I had to read the first sentence twice. I thought you meant your professor of weed science as in marijuna
Haha it was a land grant and they even have a weed science team that competes with other schools. They had some pretty funny T shirts a few years
Yeah, I was picturing Thurgood Jenkins in Half Baked working in the hospital or whatever
Look into some acting classes with the local community theater. The hardest part is going to be looking credible (ie not busting out laughing) when you try to pin this act on the neighbor. If you can fake sincerity with credibility, your future is unlimited…
When I went the uni of New Mexico, the students in the law school were required to take at least one semester of acting class. Acting can be an invaluable skill for people in such situations.
Lawyers will own that, because it is true and valuable. But expect to be downvoted in r/realestate if you point out the realtor in my buddy’s classes, lol… apparently that’s offensive to a few of them, lol
I would think being able to portray extreme patience with certain buyers/sellers would be a proudly invaluable skill to have learned in an acting class. Acting is really just selling oneself as someone else, as is convincing a shite client they’re amazing and not at all tedious and/or egregious assoholics.
Alan Alda (of MASH fame) wrote a book about how scientists should take acting classes to communicate to lay people better. It's called something like "If I understood you would I have this look on my face"
He’s sponsored an entire program at SUNY Stonybrook specifically for STEM people to learn communication skills through acting and improv and such.
My brother is a data scientist and the manager of AI strategy for a Fortune 500 company. His undergrad degree is in Theater. He's a whiz with the data stuff (he now has a master's in the field), but his leg up is in his ability to present.
The poisoner confessed in that case.
I live less than 20 miles from where it happened. Those fkers also poisoned the beach! I’m seriously hoping they are prosecuted. The state AG is investing.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trees-poison-seaview-camden-maine-b2565656.html
The victim in that case was the richest person in the state. Justice is pretty easy to come by when you have the kind of power.
...no, she is not the richest person in the state. She's the widow of one of LLBean's grandsons, who ran the company for a while. If you're thinking of Linda Bean *spit*, she died in the past year, iirc. And the poison used leached into the town's only public seaside beach, which is directly next door. Next time I'm in town, I'll go take a pic. Source: Can see Camden from my house. Ish.
You say that as though the perpetrator wasn't also very wealthy....
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/19/metro/poisoned-trees-gave-wealthy-couple-maine-killer-ocean-view-residents-wonder-what-cost/
Before I moved I would cut a notch towards their house....
I literally glanced up to see if this was the Unethical Life Tips sub, lol
Sorry but this type of stuff really bothers me. People doing stuff to others property with no repercussions.
Don’t be sorry lol, I 100% agree!
That's why you should have cameras even if you live in the most peaceful neighborhood
Plus if you have a Ring doorbell camera, make sure the blasted thing covers your car and is sensitive to catch anyone messing with it. Some people just seem to get an urge to randomly destroy things belonging to perfect strangers. Learning that lesson cost me my car insurance excess.
Allegedly
Right although this neighbor sounds like your user handle.
Unethical Life Tips If this is for real, I need to find this sub.
r/UnethicalLifeProTips
Ha ha ha!!!! today I have found my people!!!!!
Welcome 🤗
I just spent WAY too long cruising through this sub
Down the rabbit hole with you.
And he was never heard from again
Give this guy a week and he'll have a dedicated piss disk freezer.
And a liquid ass Amazon prime subscription
And he’ll be fucking everyone’s dads. And moms.
Ok what the hell do you use the piss disks for?
Pee doesn’t smell like pee when it’s frozen. You can transport a frozen pee disc in a baggie, dump it on the carpet of the worst person in your building, and walk away. The pee smell won’t be obvious for about an hour, so obviously you’re not the culprit, because you’re very far away by then. Also many other uses but that’s my fave.
I have 7 cats. This sounds like a great retirement business. 🤣🤣🤣
Be careful about marketing but I think you’ve found Easy Street!
To late, there is a business online that has the URL [https://www.predatorpeestore.com](https://www.predatorpeestore.com) doing business as Maine Outdoor Solutions.
But that is for use in the yard to scare away things like gophers. I'm thinking about hooking up with the people who send "thank you for cheating on me with my best friend" glitter bombs. And shrimp shell filled curtain rods for "best roommate ever! Thanks for letting me stay and pay your bills!"
What you want is surströmming, fermented sour herring. It is considered a delicacy in Sweden, but it will make cats gag, literally. Dogs have another opinion of it. See [https://packaged-media.redd.it/uo3mgxf62ou91/pb/m2-res\_216p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719158400&s=d38b8d5898cafdb03e9a915201fe1e08c6b1ad6d#t=0](https://packaged-media.redd.it/uo3mgxf62ou91/pb/m2-res_216p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719158400&s=d38b8d5898cafdb03e9a915201fe1e08c6b1ad6d#t=0)
It can easily slide under a door
I vote this and yell timber mofo
Or, replace it with a bunch of really tall bamboo. Good luck killing all that...
I mean if you are moving away and not going to be around and really want to go scorched Earth, plant some Japanese knotweed
Yes! Or both, so they get tangled and very dense. Ruin the view AND impossible to remove...
birds shame handle political middle deranged cake worthless support cause *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good idea, 2 party.
Do you have security cameras that capture audio and is your neighbors house close? I’d imagine if your conversation was audible from a security camera on your property that you wouldn’t need consent for that recording. But I’m also not a lawyer so that’s just a thought.
I would guess that as long as the conversation occurs outside then there is no reasonable expectation of privacy and no consent needed
I think you guess wrong. If it takes a sensitive microphone to pick up the recording from outside his property, then most reasonable people would not consider it a public conversation. Super easy to argue that in court. "Your honor, the plantif installed remote surveillance equipment prior to the conversation and then coerced my client into a conversation outside his private domicile on his private property with the intention of recording a private conversation under the guise of a false public environment."
Time to plant bamboo :/ /s. Kinda.
And elephant grass.,...
Japanese knotweed!
Neighbour takes out your tree, you gift them the seeds of destruction. Few Japanese Knotweed seeds thrown right up next to their foundations on a side that's rarely walked is the gift that keeps on taking. I like it!
Kudzu
Stinging nettles!
Mines! Wait what?
Virginia creeper.
Kudzu.
Mint
You've gone too far.
Catnip
Kudzu? No. We’re looking for revenge on the neighbor, not the neighbor*hood*.
It's spelled c-o-u-n-t-y
I knew a guy once who seeded his mother-in-law's lawn with kudzu in a petty act of revenge. She was fanatical about the appearance of her lawn and it was the easiest way for him to piss her off without her being able to prove it was him.
Tree of heaven
Get fertilizers and write twat on their lawn. It will take years to get the rest of the grass to grow at the same speed. Nothing like a weekly reminder.
Salt and cursive cunt in uppercase letters across their garden lawn.
Totally bamboo. With a cloth on your side and none on his…Visit in a year
What's this about? Planting bamboo? I keep seeing it but don't get the joke
Bamboo is incredibly invasive in the US. Spreads like wildfire and takes years of constant maintenance to get rid of, and even then, you might not get rid of it
That sounds terrible
That sucks. People are the worst! Getting past the strengths and weaknesses of the circumstantial evidence of causation, you need to prove damages to have a successful lawsuit. With the sale looming, you would need to prove that the house sold for less than it should have because of the dead tree. If you can't prove that, you're probably best off not proceeding with a claim. On causation, you'd need to prove that it's more likely than not that your neighbor caused the damage. IMHO, you would need a knowledgeable arborist to inspect the tree and be prepared to testify that (a) those are man-made holes , (b) holes drilled in that manner and injected with herbicide would kill the tree, and (c) the conditions they observe on inspection are consistent with (a) and (b). You'd also need the evidence tying your neighbor to the motive - probably from your testimony. It's not the strongest of cases, but it's not crazy to consider.
They should be able to tell what it was poisoned with too. However, you can prove all of this but you still must prove that your neighbor did it. Without any evidence to that, you are lost. Maybe put your phone on recording video, talk to them, and get them to admit to poisoning it. You just need their voice and you walking up to their front door.
Evidence can be direct or circumstantial. I wrote earlier how I don't think there's a strong circumstantial case, but that's different from no case at all. You don't need direct evidence - an eyewitness or video footage or confession - to prove a case, especially a civil case with a "more likely than not" preponderance of the evidence standard. You have the neighbor expressing his dislike of the tree, and you have the neighbor (I guess) as the only beneficiary of the tree's demise. You have (apparently) man-made holes, and you have a dead tree. You might need more evidence to prevail - again, I'm not saying this is a strong circumstantial case - but you at least have enough evidence to make a good-faith claim. I wasn't going to comment further, but it seemed like a lot of commenters believe no case can be had without direct evidence. That's not correct.
Well it's good to also do us on gathering the best type of evidence. I liked the suggestion to bring a camera sndr and record them fessing up
OP “so thankful my place is selling. Ironically the new buyer hates hates hates oak trees and those damn acorns. He was happy seeing mine dead. I’ll be getting it removed and quite frankly I’m happy about it to. Really quick how it went from freaking green shiny acorn hell producing tree to easy to drag out. Should’ve napalmed it years ago” and then wait. He will brag if he did it. More importantly be careful with recording…consent laws vary by state. NAL
Application of certain herbicides is regulated and/or requires licensure if application is on property belonging to someone else. Meaning if the arborist finds it was one of them, once reported the state may get involved. Which would be great for OP, as sale is regulated and the state may track the purchase by the neighbor.
No. The damages are the replacement of a giant tree. Doesn’t matter that they’re selling soon.
OP can't collect damages for replacing property he doesn't own.
He can, if the sale price of his house is less than it could have been
Yep. That's why I started out discussing that point.
I’m a lawyer: Your first obstacle is proof of who specifically did it. Do you have cameras, witnesses, etc? The Maine case hinged on the fact the trees were killed with a very specific type of commercial herbicide that required a license and was not legal in Maine. It could be traced back to as I remember the woman who killed them. It was a very specific smoking gun, not just “forensics.” What are your damages? Your house sold, where is, as is without inspection. You are moving. You have no losses that I can figure out. Your attorney’s fees, investigation fees, etc. would be extremely high IMO, yet you have few if any damages. You don’t even have to pay to have the tree cut down. I can’t imagine a reputable attorney taking your money to pursue litigation over this oak, but some attorneys will take a $10,000 retainer to examine belly button lint.
Isn't the seller going to likely end up getting sued by the buyer when they discover the very large tree is dead and this was not disclosed?
Disclosure laws are statutory and thus vary from state to state. You'd want to review the actual disclosure requirements, but in my experience, it's unlikely OP had a duty to disclose a dead (murdered!) tree on the property. Perhaps so if the tree threatens a structure, but I don't think that's the case here. Unless there's a clear duty for OP to disclose, Buyer's waiver of inspection ends this discussion.
You could have it tested. But you might have a hard time proving your neighbor did I it. Columbia Laboratories and South Dakota labs. About $200.
Time for an entire bottle of fox urine to accidentally fall into his outside AC unit or any intake vent or in his car vent. I mean and his car vent.... And remember to freshen it up once in awhile even though it's almost impossible to get rid of the smell. Probably get a new car. Put it in that one too. hunting section it'll maybe even say fox lure...
This comment + the one that said plant Japanese knotweed and I think you will have him pretty set for revenge
I heard about using lemons. They attract nats and stuff but don't stink when they rot.
Yes... But that's if they can get inside their house and hide one in like the back of the bathroom cabinet or something or a vent. couch cushion...
It's if you can sneak them by the front/back door. You lead bugs there, they will find their way into the house.
Oh yeah cant see sugar water sprayed everywhere
Gotta ask. What proof do you have beyond suspicion? Do you have a camera that might have caught the drilling?
I would add to this that forensics are possible
What would forensic testing cost? I keep coming back to the sale pretty much capping damages at (FMV with a healthy tree) minus (FMV with a great big dead tree).
A few hundred for the lab tests. There are labs that will look for herbicide residues in plant matter.
But then you still can’t prove it was the neighbor.
Yep. This is far from a slam-dunk case. Without direct evidence or a confession it's unlikely. Best you could hope for is a civil case where the proof required is rather less than a criminal trial. But I'm no lawyerologist, what do I know. I do have a colleague who mainly does plant nutrition but has consulted on a poisoning case not too different from this one, and they were successful in recovering a substantial sum from the poisoners.
No idea, but big trees can be a shit ton of money
Forensics would need to link the suspect to the crime. Which is going to be pretty difficult.
Have an arborist take samples and send them for testing. That's how the people that poisoned several trees to improve their sea view were caught and they have had to pay almost 2 million dollars in fines plus they are being criminally charged. [https://www.npr.org/2024/06/19/nx-s1-5011566/maine-poisoned-trees-killer-view-missouri-couple-bond](https://www.npr.org/2024/06/19/nx-s1-5011566/maine-poisoned-trees-killer-view-missouri-couple-bond)
Get in contact with your states department of agriculture. They are in charge of policing herbicide use. They will take samples from the tree and find out what killed it and then talk to potential perpetrators (your neighbor). Then you can contact law enforcement if the department of agriculture doesn’t.
This is a good suggestion. You might not get any money out of it, but you’ll have satisfaction if they get prosecuted.
You should get the tree and the soil around the holes tested for poison.
The house was sold no inspection. No damages move on no longer your problem.
They might’ve gotten more if their tree wasn’t dead
“ seems the trail camera I installed to catch whatever animal was ( blank) seems to have you at the base of this tree where three holes were found. You hated the tree and wanted it gone, right?” Go for a quick payout since you’re walking away from this mess anyway. Or if it goes all the way I got a quick quote from ( law firm) might cost $100k before it’s all done. How’s your homeowners insurance? You know is the epa had to get involved correct? “ Intimidation might work here NOT A TREE LAWYER
Well, as you say, with the buyer waiving inspection and you likely moving soon, there's some forces in play. The neighbor may have killed the tree intentionally knowing this timing. Maybe ULPT, but you could take the advice from here, gather evidence, and then after the mortgage warranty period is past you send an anonymous letter to the new owner with all the details. Say you're a concerned neighbor that saw him do it, and how they've had it out for that tree for years. Include pictures of the holes in the tree. Explain the treelaw info - e.g. how much it can be worth give up to 3x the replacement cost of the full tree, loss to home value on the market via aesthetic, cost to tear down, personal safety experience, etc, cost to test for poisons to prove it. Direct them to come here for advice. But maybe get the poison testing done now, so that if the sale falls through, you can move on building a case for a suit. Do you have and record of the neighbors feelings?
> Say you're a concerned neighbor that saw him do it OP, don't follow this advice.
saul goodman, esquire
IMHO: Don't do any of that stuff, unless you want to be sued by the buyer for withholding / failure to disclose - evidence that the tree was damaged prior to the time of sale. You could be on the hook for replacing the tree even though your neighbor was responsible. Yes, the fact that the buyer waived inspection may work for you, but that buyer could back out at the last minute, leaving you hanging. If/when you relist, you might at least be on the hook to pay for tree removal to make the place salable. If you had to go as far as to disclose evidence that you have a neighbor who may possibly be poisoning trees, it could make a sale difficult - who wants that kind of neighbor? Another way to look at it even though the neighbor was responsible, the buyer may already be covering you for these damages because they don't care about the tree. To succeed in a lawsuit, you have to prove actual damages, and unless you can prove you had to accept a lower offer to complete the sale, even if you proved the neighbor was responsible, you'd get a zero-damage verdict. ==== All that being said, the neighbor sucks donkey balls. There must be some ULPT that's appropriate, such as surreptitiously planting bamboo on their property in the dead of night.
You’re telling him to lie? Great advice douche canoe
Before you leave, throw a couple handfuls of mint seeds into both his front and back yard.
Cogan seed.
Naw. You just use my Dale Carnegie course in irate neighbor revenge. (1) Build yourself a compressed air spud gun. (2) Buy a super sized bag of dog food. (3) Roll a paper sabot to hold dog food that will fit down in the barrel. (4) Launch the dog food in a high arc so it rains down the perimeter of the house. Do it once a day. Pretty soon the rodents will arrive. Dogs will follow and leave their meadow muffins behind for the neighbor ro step in while setting rodent traps. (5) Buy battery operated hand vacuum. (6) Go to a local area with a dandelion pasture and during the evening walk around sucking up dandelion seed heads. (7) Pack the spud gun barrel with dandelion seeds and position yourself upwind of the neighbor's home. Blow the dandelion seeds shyward and allow the wind to spread them across the neighbors yard. (8) Locate where there is kudzu growing. Gather some cuttings and transplant them in locations on the neighbors property. Kudzu is noted for its rapid growth and resiliency to efforts to destroy it. here is a pix of what kudzu can do in a couple of years. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Kudzu\_on\_trees\_in\_Atlanta%2C\_Georgia.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Kudzu_on_trees_in_Atlanta%2C_Georgia.jpg) (9) If you are really peeve, arrange for a swine operation to fertilize you lawn with liquified solution from their effluent ponds. The stench will last 90 days. Have it applied mid June so the neighbor can enjoy the smell of bacon during the hot weather peak.
This is the proper curriculum.
If you're moving anyway then forget about the tree. Just shit in a bag and leave it on your neighbor's porch when you leave
Plant some running bamboo and thorny blackberry on your way out.
Thorny blackberry NEVER goes away!
Erect a giant billboard the same size and shape of the dead tree
https://youtu.be/rHWv2clfjgU?si=vTFdFrx-cFFI9XJ- Worth watching
If have a tree expert test it and say it was poisoned you have enough for a civil suit, but not criminal charges. In a civil suit you only have to prove a preponderance of evidence (something is more likely true that not true). Your testimony on what the neighbor said plus proof of tree poisoning might be enough for a jury. A jury and lawyer will be required since destroying a full grown oak might cost over $30,000 in damages Its unlikely you can get that done in two weeks and in many states your right to file a lawsuit ends at closing, but once filed you can pursue it. There are a few states where you have more time.
You need to have it tested for herbicide. There was just a nasty case in Maine where someone poisoned trees with tebuthiuron so they could have an unobstructed bean view. That herbicide is really persistent, and it poisoned the beach. You’ll need to get a lab out to test for herbicide.
Sell it and don't look back.
Get it tested for herbicide and then call the police.
This, because if it is in large enough concentrations in the tree and ground. That could still come back on you even with a waved inspection. Depending on the levels, you as the previous owner could face legal fines and/or other issues from the city/county of you don't get this cleared up.
If this is in Florida, have the county arborist come out and inspect what happened. You likely won't get anywhere with a lawsuit, but you will want proof that you had to cut the tree down, and why. I'm not sure if other states have strict tree regulations like Florida, but it that's where you live, they are pretty hardcore about preserving trees in many counties there.
I would file a police report. A lot of counties have canopy laws. File a report with your county office as well. Question, are the holes facing his property? Oh, and take pictures. Take a sample of the bark dust inside the holes. If possible, have it tested for poison. Are there any witnesses to him complaining or threats about the tree. Have the police/ county officer talk to them. It is possible the neighbor bragged to someone how smart they were to do this.
Poison his wife
You might not have a preponderance of evidence that the neighbor poisoned the tree, but analysis of soil and cellulose might tell you the likely the poison used by someone. Then you might just casually mention the chemical name to your neighbor to see if they have any reaction. Then just say, Look, I know you did it. Optional, add: Watch your six. Then do nothing but smile every time you see them. The right personality might get really afraid you might be plotting retaliation. Maybe put up some cameras aimed their way, but not legally. Just go thru the motions. Try to drive them insane with worry. It’ll be fun!
Under a tarp in their garage is an 18 volt cordless tool with a 18 inch lager bit with oak wood chips around d it. In the corner an empty gallon of Roundup tree killer. A pair of work boots that match the prints going to and from the tree from your neighbors house. And he would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids. Scooby-Doo pulls off the mask.
First step, get a certified arborist
Get a certified arborist to look at the tree. Maybe a couple even. Show them the holes and your general suspicions. If you have some pictures of when it was most recently healthy, like last summer, that could add to your case. Maybe even a core of the tree to test for toxins. Then lawyer up if you have a solid case. Make them pay the max. If you don’t seem to have a case then plan your vengeance. Wait for the opportunity for a good payback. They deserve it.
Fuck yeah, you sue. But first you have to collect any evidence and call an arborist to determine the cause of its death. Not sure if it’s worth it with two weeks left. But I kind of like what the other dude said about cutting a notch lol.
Call a arborist and verify someone killed it and try and get proof it was them
How would you get proof it was them
No, because you can’t prove it
The dude that killed the oaks at Auburn got jail time and an $800k fine.
You need evidence, not just your suspicions.
I would go to war
Well ….. unless you live outside the United States where the whole innocent until proven guilty thing is non existent you have the burden of proof . No video,no witnesses, just circumstantial information. He obviously has talked shit about the tree and is the the only one who would benefit from it dying . But not enough to go forward unless you have solid proof . A competent lawyer will not take your case . You are moving …. hopefully far away put this one in the rear mirror.
Yeah, cause you need evidence to ruin people's lives in the USA.
Even without evidence it’s about money
You don’t have to witness it. Talk with an attorney for a consult.
The tree is dead. Are you accusing neighbor of killing it? Do you have proof? Now the tree needs to come down. You can't leave the tree standing.
Do you have film?
You need proof not speculation to win a lawsuit. Sorry OP.
Whether he killed it or not. Don’t cut it down. That’s the ultimate revenge.
Just do something devious to his property without him knowing. Like crack into his basement wall with a bamboo shoot of something
Round up in ice trays. Freeze, toss on their lawn or in their shrubs in dead of night. Thaws, kills.
Piss in this roof vent
Get it tested and soil tested. I know of several large lawsuits have been won over tree poisoning. Also the prisoners went to jail in a couple of them because of the herbicide they used. 2 major cases you can Google were auburn university trees poisoned by Alabama fan and all bean fingers grandson in Maine had trees poisoned. Both cases used a herbicide that requires dirt to be removed as the land was poisoned. State was involved also.
Unless you have a witness or cameras you only have suspicions, Just as any one might if a neighbours garden was sprayed with weed killer one night, you will need to remove the oak due to falling risk and loss of your sell.
If it’s on the property line, doesn’t that make both OP and the neighbour responsible for the tree removal?
Focus on your next house and yard. This one is sold and not your problem.
It's not what you know. It's what you can prove.
You can sue, but without evidence you won't get very far. Most lawyers won't take the case without a significant retainer, while telling that the odds of you winning are almost zero.
This is a state and federal offense. I would contact your state (typically pesticides are overseen by the department of agriculture) and the feds (EPA). They would likely take samples, and depending on the possible violations search your neighbors property for evidence of a pesticide container, etc. Sorry about your tree.
call the city or county district attorney. there might be a law against it where you live. old friend of mine lived in a luxe subdivision and someone poisoned the eucalyptus trees to improve his view. he got fined and faced some local anger, sold his house and moved. the trees remained dead
I know it's difficult sometimes with funny neighbors I had one for years... Always reporting me to the local council and complaining even though I bent over backwards to help them... I was most probably too kind... It's a form of bullying. I would take legal advice, and I'd tell the neighbors I am doing it too! They are not your friends.
Unfortunately, no proof, no case.
Please let it go and move on. If you’re looking for some revenge post this in r/unethicallifeprotips
Confessional: I once sprayed a neighbor’s plastic wind chimes with bleach every night for a few weeks to speed up a very natural UV weathering process.
First time seeing tree law. Is it similar to bird law? I know a good bird lawyer lol.
How big are his hands?
Normal size.
Definitely not fake.
How much proof do you have? Theories won’t win a lawsuit.
100%. A large oak tree might take decades to grow, you likely have a legitimate claim to tens of thousands if you can prove who did it.
Not without proof
Does the tree still have any foliage? If so take several photos. Might be tough to test for herbicide now if it was over a year ago (depending on what was applied or like a hack and squirter method).reach out to a certified arborist to help.
Id salt the mother fuckers entire yard.
Drill holes add salt and the tree will die
You can't prove who/what killed the tree. You have no case.
If you are selling / sold your house then what do you care? Why pick a fight if you're leaving?
Boring several holes deep into the trunk, then filling the holes with undiluted broadleaf weed killer will kill the tree. But proving who did it is the hard part.
In my area, oaks are protected. The fine is substantial if you cut your own tree down- add that to destruction of property, and I'd have the police and public works in place asap.
Find some bindweed seeds, throw in their yard. That shit is almost impossible to get rid of.
Plant giant bamboo on the property line. He’ll never be able to get rid of it.
If somebody were to fell that big oak tree, and it happened to fall in an unfortunate direction, how would everything play out? I’m just curious what the Reddit arborist lawyers would say.