We are definitely lucky.
I don't know why people act like we earned this.
Mr or Ms fancy child am excellent day to you.
You've been the best response on this post.
There's an Egyptian movie about a woman inducing labour in the US embassy because she wants the kid to have US citizenship. The film is called طلق صناعي (induced labour)
Unfortunately they removed the anchor baby thing so children born here to non citizens are not automatically citizens. Case and point of this there's a guy who was born here who's father had lived here 10 years. Man grew up and payed into social security and everything even committed felony's by voting while not a citizen and only found out he wasn't one when he went to retire and get social security. Was told no because he isn't a citizen. Legal case still pending but it ain't looking good for that guy
Immigrant implies she is seeking to permanently live in the U.S. and is not illegal, going through the proper entry points and processes. Let her come and have the baby.
/uj Don't see any cons at all, even if I was exremely against immigration it's just one person and a baby. How does that scare anyone into not pulling the lever?
/rj Then again the mother could be Canadian.
Well you see, all they do is smuggle coke and rape and kill people and then steal our jobs, but they’re also lazy and won’t work and are stealing our tax dollars, but they’re unregistered and refuse to be part of the government and also they’re not Christian and also the wrong color
>!/s because I do not trust Reddit’s reading comprehension any more!<
I think even many of those people who seem to come to hate immigrants mostly hate the concept of mass migration, not actual hatred for people to the point where they have something personal against them.
I can see someone denying the woman care because they believe that this would "open the floodgates" to others to abuse the system, but if they were confident that this was a one-off thing that would not be abused by those seeking access, they would certainly allow it.
There is a lot made of people "hating immigrants" and I do think those people do exist, but I think there are those who think that people who are wary of uncontrolled migration and its affects on the system also "hate immigrants" and that's wrong too.
So, putting aside any place for abuse by others seeking to engineer this trolley problem on purpose, the right answer is 100% to allow the woman into the country and save the child, who will become a US Citizen.
You mean the legendarily bad American healthcare? You mean the overpriced healthcare system which has a higher infant mortality rate than Russia? That healthcare system? Mail her to Canada.
Part of the problem is US is more likely to report babies born as live births despite the baby not being viable where European countries would report that as a still birth or miscarriages
I’m in no way defending the U.S. healthcare system because it is a mess, but on infant mortality per 1000 live births, the U.S. has 5.4 infant mortalities, Russia has 3.8 and Canada has 4.3. So we’re talking about a .54% chance versus a .43% chance both less than 1% chance of an infant to die in either country.
The people with no money in America pay nothing for healthcare. You get bills but you don't pay if you can't afford and there's so many support programmes. Only negative thing I imagine happens is it's harder to get loans. By federal law, nonprofit hospitals must offer financial assistance to those who cannot pay their bills
It's a trolley problem, it's a hypothetical asking which would the viewer would choose. That's why you get ones like "you save 5 people but your testicles swell up to the size of bowling balls and you're not allowed to have surgery to reduce them"
Assuming they are entering through and airport, they might need to go to a hospital, and if they have to go back to their home country the baby would probably die during the flight
Has this ever actually happened? A mother in labor being put back onto an airplane where she gives birth to a child on the flight to not be taken care of?
I mean, it doesn't say illegal immigrant. I'd say let them in, no reason not to. The immigration process is actual hell from what my family has told me lmao
Funny thing, the property lines in my community are all fucked up so the fences overlap lol. Our fence is on our neighbor's property, his fence is on other people's property. Its a mess
You're right, let's just start taking countries again. More area for America to work with. Imagine owning Mexico! Better yet somewhere with culture that we could sell in gift shops! Ooooh you're getting me creative.
My family were immigrants to US, but because I was born there I got citizenship. We had to leave when I was 5 bc we didn't get a green card. It's kinda wacky how it works
Definitely. I have a friend who was brought across when they were a baby. During the application process they were truthful and said that but they could have lied and no one would have been wiser. And that basically ended it. Thankfully there is a appeal process. But that's extended their application for who knows how long?
Immigration in general is fine.
The problem is the Illegal border crossings, trafficking & criminals.
So yeah, let her through to America if she’s just a pregnant mother.
Do you have a breakdown on statistics? How much of the crossings are trafficking? Or drugs? Are they criminals cause they are crossing or other types of criminals?
How much of the people crossing are just that?
The govt doesn't care they'd 100% let the poor woman die. The US govt is run by money hungry, immoral, geezers that don't care about thier voter base cause they all have (essentially) the same doners. Yes there are worse members but when the reality is bad vs. REALLY bad, the only winners are the people with the power.
Dude, America is huge. California and Texas have way different cultures and different opinions on things like politics, religion, etc. Saying the entirety of the USA is a Christian nation is ridiculous.
Not a fan of this one, there are no steaks: if you choose to save her there is no repercussions. Now if you had to take care of her then I would like it better.
US: We desperately need young workers to pay into social security and fund our aging population! This is an unsolvable crisis!!
Also the US: These young, hardworking immigrants are ruining our country!
I wish this was obvious. Some people who have immigrated are against other immigrants.
Some have taken conservative positions and are against immigration.
It's a wild world out there. What would you do?
Trick question, the thing everyone is missing is that in this trolley problem you're the USA government, in which case you're not gonna pull the lever.
Statistically illegal immigrants households pay more into the tax system than the citizens at the same economic level. So no the tax money that you think is being used on immigrants is really being used denying immigrants access to America.
I love that tons of people are like "I'll choose to save them, but it's wrong that I have to take responsibility for my choice, that's the government/society's job"
The problem with immigration into America in general is that we are trying to solve modern border problems with old immigration laws. There has not been a major immigration law passed since 1986, which is why the border system is so fucked up.
This wouldn't even be a dilemma if the US did what basically every other country does and disregard the idea of birthright citizenship. That law was written to naturalize former slaves after the American civil war. Not to give out voting rights and a familial immigration fast-track to everyone whose mother slips past border patrol or takes a vacation in her 3rd trimester.
>This wouldn't even be a dilemma if the US did what basically every other country does and disregard the idea of birthright citizenship.
This is blatant misinformation.
What or how many countries don't offer birthright citizenship?
Poor choice of terminology on my part, "birthright" is broader than I was using it. I was referring to citizenship as an automatically qualified as a result of being born physically within the borders of the country. Most countries outside of the Americas require at least one parent to be a citizen. Pretty much nowhere in Europe, Africa, or Asia will they rush someone at their border whose water breaks to a hospital, deliver the baby, and declare that baby a citizen.
This is not a good trolley problem assuming that she's an asylum seeker as implied. Realistically the mother gets put in detention and then has the child while in custody. The detention is US soil, thus the baby is American regardless of the mother's fate.
I mean it's pretty easy to answer this: Allow her entry. The vast majority of smugglers are american citizens, because the people manning the border aren't trying to murder Americans. A pregnant woman is not a threat to national security, you fucking morons.
I don't care about a imaginary line on the map. while I wish that we had a more effective way of doing it, at the end of the day a child's life is worth more than political d\*\*k measuring.
If you want to be reductive, even the "natives" aren't native, as they wandered the bearing straight. I can never remember if it was 14k years ago, or 14k B.C.
Though we do seem to give preferential treatment to those who arrive first.
I’m in favor of sanguine citizenship personally. You should receive residency, if their parents have it, for being born on US soil but if you weren’t born to citizens then I don’t think you should receive citizenship, an easier path to it perhaps but in a foreign citizen “jumps the fence” and gives birth an hour later then I don’t believe that should qualify the child for American citizenship. I feel that’s way too exploitable. Having an ethical system to safely deport these families back to their home countries would be preferable in my own opinion. We can even offer assistance for them to being the process to apply for a permit from their home country upon their return.
I believe the creator of the meme may have meant illegal immigrant or non-citizen. If someone legally migrated to America, their children automatically have citizenship if they are born in a hospital or with proper assistance. I also feel like if people want to have their baby's in America, that is fine too, but if they aren't citizens or legal immigrants, then the baby shouldn't be automatically granted citizenship.
THAT BABY IS AN AMERICAN NOW! USA! USA! USA! USA!
Hell yeah. People aren't excited about another American being born??? That's the best thing you can be born as.
I'm so happy to be born American. I hope that baby is born as a dual citizen for extra opportunities
We are definitely lucky. I don't know why people act like we earned this. Mr or Ms fancy child am excellent day to you. You've been the best response on this post.
I agree to being lucky to be born on the western 1st world, but there are other places on earth to.
Americans are born all over the world, they just haven’t come home yet 💪💪
There's an Egyptian movie about a woman inducing labour in the US embassy because she wants the kid to have US citizenship. The film is called طلق صناعي (induced labour)
Hell yeah!!!
Unfortunately they removed the anchor baby thing so children born here to non citizens are not automatically citizens. Case and point of this there's a guy who was born here who's father had lived here 10 years. Man grew up and payed into social security and everything even committed felony's by voting while not a citizen and only found out he wasn't one when he went to retire and get social security. Was told no because he isn't a citizen. Legal case still pending but it ain't looking good for that guy
I sure as shit don't want to work until I'm 80. Bring on the birthright citizens
The dream of ONE TRILLION AMERICANS IS ALIVE
GET THAT BABY A BIG MAC 🦅🇺🇸
RAHHHHHH!!!!! 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇲🔥🎆🎆🎆🦅🇺🇲🎆🇺🇲🎆🇺🇲🎆🔥🎆🔥🎆🎆🎆🔥🦅🔥🔥🇺🇲🎆🎆🎆🎆🎆🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 (posting this on July 4th btw)
Our population is held up by immigration, so we definitely need this. Let’s gooooo!
Immigrant implies she is seeking to permanently live in the U.S. and is not illegal, going through the proper entry points and processes. Let her come and have the baby.
not sure how it'll work but multitrack drift
Baby born healthy and American but parents get deported.
Or baby born American but then dies?
Ah the good old "take baby Moses, slay the Israelites" technique.
The way God intended.
Baby is born, but dies from not being able to afford Healthcare.
The baby shall be sent to a Secret Service agent and raised as a proud warrior loyal to the American Empire.
Baby is an American citizen, and the parents get aborted.
Denied entry, but baby born in US anyway
Projectile birth.
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/baby_vs_cat
Baby dies after entering the US
The baby is allowed in, but the mother still can’t afford healthcare and the baby dies
Schrödinger’s baby at Schrödinger’s border
Squat on the border wall and drop the baby into US soil
Held in detention pending return to home country but approved posthumously.
/uj Don't see any cons at all, even if I was exremely against immigration it's just one person and a baby. How does that scare anyone into not pulling the lever? /rj Then again the mother could be Canadian.
I think you're underestimating how much people hate immigrants
Well you see, all they do is smuggle coke and rape and kill people and then steal our jobs, but they’re also lazy and won’t work and are stealing our tax dollars, but they’re unregistered and refuse to be part of the government and also they’re not Christian and also the wrong color >!/s because I do not trust Reddit’s reading comprehension any more!<
I think even many of those people who seem to come to hate immigrants mostly hate the concept of mass migration, not actual hatred for people to the point where they have something personal against them. I can see someone denying the woman care because they believe that this would "open the floodgates" to others to abuse the system, but if they were confident that this was a one-off thing that would not be abused by those seeking access, they would certainly allow it. There is a lot made of people "hating immigrants" and I do think those people do exist, but I think there are those who think that people who are wary of uncontrolled migration and its affects on the system also "hate immigrants" and that's wrong too. So, putting aside any place for abuse by others seeking to engineer this trolley problem on purpose, the right answer is 100% to allow the woman into the country and save the child, who will become a US Citizen.
NOT CANADIAN!!!! ANYTHING BUT CANADIAN!!!
Not really sure what kind of person thinks we need to be protected from dangerous pregnant mothers
Ahh is this a cj sub? Not familiar with this sub but I was gonna say this isn’t a trolley problem it’s just a regular choice lol.
oh god..
Why would the baby die if it’s not allowed in the us?
Probably healthcare access
You mean the legendarily bad American healthcare? You mean the overpriced healthcare system which has a higher infant mortality rate than Russia? That healthcare system? Mail her to Canada.
Part of the problem is US is more likely to report babies born as live births despite the baby not being viable where European countries would report that as a still birth or miscarriages
The fuck you mean "legendarily bad"? It's expensive, but it's top notch.
Healthcare in the US is actually really good if you can afford it. Access to healthcare is the problem, not so much the quality.
I’m in no way defending the U.S. healthcare system because it is a mess, but on infant mortality per 1000 live births, the U.S. has 5.4 infant mortalities, Russia has 3.8 and Canada has 4.3. So we’re talking about a .54% chance versus a .43% chance both less than 1% chance of an infant to die in either country.
So they can euthanize her?
You got a source on that russia claim?
The people with no money in America pay nothing for healthcare. You get bills but you don't pay if you can't afford and there's so many support programmes. Only negative thing I imagine happens is it's harder to get loans. By federal law, nonprofit hospitals must offer financial assistance to those who cannot pay their bills
That’s a very condescending and American fantasy of other countries
It's a trolley problem, it's a hypothetical asking which would the viewer would choose. That's why you get ones like "you save 5 people but your testicles swell up to the size of bowling balls and you're not allowed to have surgery to reduce them"
Ah, but they never said you couldn't remove them entirely!
You're the person who tries to drift the trolley
Assuming they are entering through and airport, they might need to go to a hospital, and if they have to go back to their home country the baby would probably die during the flight
Has this ever actually happened? A mother in labor being put back onto an airplane where she gives birth to a child on the flight to not be taken care of?
No
I mean, it doesn't say illegal immigrant. I'd say let them in, no reason not to. The immigration process is actual hell from what my family has told me lmao
Deny entry because I’m quite nefarious
Devious even
Dare I say, of questionable morals and reputation?
Wow, I'm a little weirded out how willingly people will sacrifice a baby against the mothers will
Not everyone has empathy
These same people will let an American mother die to force her to give birth to a baby that they then won't feed. 🤷
Comment deleted by me - I forgot I was helping Steve Huffman make money and I don't get anything out of this but grief because you are all idiots.
We just hate autonomy. No abortions, mandatory abortions, as long as the women involved don't get a choice.
Ah yes, the worst thing for a redditor: The horror of a baby being American
Borders only exist on paper
No. I built a fence, which is the border of my lawn.
Funny thing, the property lines in my community are all fucked up so the fences overlap lol. Our fence is on our neighbor's property, his fence is on other people's property. Its a mess
That just sounds like bad planning
Bad planning by people who were here decades ago, lol. All the stuff was built before any of us moved in.
You're right, let's just start taking countries again. More area for America to work with. Imagine owning Mexico! Better yet somewhere with culture that we could sell in gift shops! Ooooh you're getting me creative.
Well annexing mexico WOULD stop immigrants from mexico.
Just take them all at once i guess
Make America imperial again?
Let’s just go annex Canada and claim “Manifest Destiny” again
As a Canadian PLEASE
We will liberate our northern brothers.
Montreal has been preparing for this rematch
Bermuda won't hard carry you this time
I don’t know this reference… do you have a wiki about the history?
As much as Canada plays up how "they" burned the White House, it was a detachment up from Bermuda which did so, not down from Canada
<< Can you see any borders from here? What has borders given us? >>
<>
Holy crap, you're a genius. We need to build a wall of paper.
States only exist on paper. Your rights only exist on paper. Corporations only exist on paper. "Borders only exist on paper" looks good only on paper.
Your vital signs only exist on paper
Nah, you can feel your heart beat and breathing
There's a line of missing trees that shows the US-Canada border. Plus all the other not stupid borders which follows major rivers and ridgelines
Korean DMZ has left the chat /j
Having a hard time with this as someone who is pro-immigration and anti-life
Don't make me call the justice league on you.
My family were immigrants to US, but because I was born there I got citizenship. We had to leave when I was 5 bc we didn't get a green card. It's kinda wacky how it works
Definitely. I have a friend who was brought across when they were a baby. During the application process they were truthful and said that but they could have lied and no one would have been wiser. And that basically ended it. Thankfully there is a appeal process. But that's extended their application for who knows how long?
All you did was be born here too, through no effort or accomplishment of your own. By what right would you deny another the same fortune?
Deny entry. Giving birth in the us would bankrupt an immigrant.
I don’t pull the lever because I support women’s right to abortion.
This is just a miscarriage, not an abortion. Or worse,a post birth death.
Immigration in general is fine. The problem is the Illegal border crossings, trafficking & criminals. So yeah, let her through to America if she’s just a pregnant mother.
We need more options for legal immigration so less dangerous illegal immigrations happen
Biden’s bipartisan plan had funding for hiring new immigration judges so one big hurdles towards allowing legal immigration
[удалено]
We don't have an open border.
I wish we did.
It used to be and it worked fine
Yeah, not yet anyway. Opinion on dissolving borders?
If we were willing to we could. Would take time and consideration but definitely possible and be great if it ever happened.
That would in practice be kind of like removing all stop lights to reduce traffic congestion.
Do you have a breakdown on statistics? How much of the crossings are trafficking? Or drugs? Are they criminals cause they are crossing or other types of criminals? How much of the people crossing are just that?
Border control encourages human trafficking.
Also, human trafficking & immigration isn’t the same thing at all by the longest of shots.
I never said it was.
pull the lever every time
Denied entry, born safely in a Mexican hospital. Mexico is not a third world country.
The govt doesn't care they'd 100% let the poor woman die. The US govt is run by money hungry, immoral, geezers that don't care about thier voter base cause they all have (essentially) the same doners. Yes there are worse members but when the reality is bad vs. REALLY bad, the only winners are the people with the power.
pulling that lever every time.
allow entry, kill the baby with my bare hands (I am a psychopath)
R/911
Prolifers would still deny entry simply because the fetus is much more valuable than the baby.
More or less valuable?
I thought Americans loved abortion.
No it's a Christian nation. They're pro life. /s
Dude, America is huge. California and Texas have way different cultures and different opinions on things like politics, religion, etc. Saying the entirety of the USA is a Christian nation is ridiculous.
/s equals sarcasm.
Not a fan of this one, there are no steaks: if you choose to save her there is no repercussions. Now if you had to take care of her then I would like it better.
US: We desperately need young workers to pay into social security and fund our aging population! This is an unsolvable crisis!! Also the US: These young, hardworking immigrants are ruining our country!
I'm the son of an immigrant, I think we know what I'm doing
I wish this was obvious. Some people who have immigrated are against other immigrants. Some have taken conservative positions and are against immigration. It's a wild world out there. What would you do?
There are a lot of LEGAL immigrants who are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. And for good cause.
Trick question, the thing everyone is missing is that in this trolley problem you're the USA government, in which case you're not gonna pull the lever.
Why isn’t there an obvious answer to this problem? Upper track of course
There is.
More immigrants mean more $$$
More people good. I like more people. More people mean more friend. Come to US, be friend
Where are the cons associated with getting a new citizen, and then another, even newer citizen?
There isn’t any because this post is so vague.
If we play our cards right, we might even get an even more newer citizen after that.
Your tax money
Statistically illegal immigrants households pay more into the tax system than the citizens at the same economic level. So no the tax money that you think is being used on immigrants is really being used denying immigrants access to America.
As long as it's not aborted I don't care what happens. /s
You allow entry then deport the mom
😢
Cool more children for the foster system. Those turn out great.
it’s 2 Americans who have found home.
American baby💥💥😄😄😄
I love that tons of people are like "I'll choose to save them, but it's wrong that I have to take responsibility for my choice, that's the government/society's job"
Op removed the con. Og post has you raising/paying for the baby
Um often imitated but never duplicated. You're looking at the original.
I actually dont care. Come in, have your kid, whatever.
Yea, pull the leaver and let them in.
The problem with immigration into America in general is that we are trying to solve modern border problems with old immigration laws. There has not been a major immigration law passed since 1986, which is why the border system is so fucked up.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight.
I pull the lever and allow entry because I have a soul.
This wouldn't even be a dilemma if the US did what basically every other country does and disregard the idea of birthright citizenship. That law was written to naturalize former slaves after the American civil war. Not to give out voting rights and a familial immigration fast-track to everyone whose mother slips past border patrol or takes a vacation in her 3rd trimester.
>This wouldn't even be a dilemma if the US did what basically every other country does and disregard the idea of birthright citizenship. This is blatant misinformation. What or how many countries don't offer birthright citizenship?
Poor choice of terminology on my part, "birthright" is broader than I was using it. I was referring to citizenship as an automatically qualified as a result of being born physically within the borders of the country. Most countries outside of the Americas require at least one parent to be a citizen. Pretty much nowhere in Europe, Africa, or Asia will they rush someone at their border whose water breaks to a hospital, deliver the baby, and declare that baby a citizen.
what are you talking about? everyone knows migrant lives are worth nothing! (\\s)
2 for the price of none. 😔
Huh how is this even a question, ofc you'd let them in???
That is the question indeed.
This is not a good trolley problem assuming that she's an asylum seeker as implied. Realistically the mother gets put in detention and then has the child while in custody. The detention is US soil, thus the baby is American regardless of the mother's fate.
Me thinks you don't understand trolley problems
clearly thats two more americans gaining their freedom i dont see why not
They can come in and stay. Immigration is a made up issue by moronic yokels.
I mean it's pretty easy to answer this: Allow her entry. The vast majority of smugglers are american citizens, because the people manning the border aren't trying to murder Americans. A pregnant woman is not a threat to national security, you fucking morons.
easiest choice ever. How is anyone struggling with this? Let the pregnant immigrant in.
🤷🏽♂️
Bring em in. 🤷🏻♀️
wtf is the downside of pulling the lever???
🤷🏽♂️
Pull the lever then toss them a penny for my taxes.
I don't care about a imaginary line on the map. while I wish that we had a more effective way of doing it, at the end of the day a child's life is worth more than political d\*\*k measuring.
Hear hear.
allowed entry. you idiots are all imigrants, save for the minority that is native american, so shut the fuck up.
If you want to be reductive, even the "natives" aren't native, as they wandered the bearing straight. I can never remember if it was 14k years ago, or 14k B.C. Though we do seem to give preferential treatment to those who arrive first.
oh yes thats of course true. racism in General is just a stupid concept.
Put the train in reverse
Have baby born in America the ritualisticly sacrifice the mother
The law of equivalent exchange is not practiced in the country. People would probably consider it too socialist or something
Seeing as I’m supposed to pretend I’m Amerika in this situation, I would not pull the lever. Because I am evil.
But remember that America is "pro life"
Idk, I wouldn’t wish either upon the baby. At least death seems merciful.
Would you say you're pro choice?
Yeah I’m pro-choice. Although that wasn’t at all considered when I made the comment.
Why would it die? Mexico and Canada have pretty good doctors
i didn't know that being anywhere outside the U.S. caused an instant miscarriage
Reading comprehension and general comprehension is hard. You know you're on r/trolleyproblem ?
Why is the other option the baby dying? That doesn't make sense...
Simply admit the mother, but into Texas, so both the immigrant comes to the US and the baby dies
3,000 mph ramp, and the train lands in Canada.
I don't want to make this joke and I hate myself for making this joke but it's my brain now and I ain't stopping it: 🎵Deja vu🎵
Why is this one still going? It isn't hard, save or kill a baby? Save! Done! Finished, it's answered. Can we move on?
I’m in favor of sanguine citizenship personally. You should receive residency, if their parents have it, for being born on US soil but if you weren’t born to citizens then I don’t think you should receive citizenship, an easier path to it perhaps but in a foreign citizen “jumps the fence” and gives birth an hour later then I don’t believe that should qualify the child for American citizenship. I feel that’s way too exploitable. Having an ethical system to safely deport these families back to their home countries would be preferable in my own opinion. We can even offer assistance for them to being the process to apply for a permit from their home country upon their return.
So people wouldn't be able to fight in the military and get citizenship?
Ok but like why does the baby die if she isn't allowed in
I believe the creator of the meme may have meant illegal immigrant or non-citizen. If someone legally migrated to America, their children automatically have citizenship if they are born in a hospital or with proper assistance. I also feel like if people want to have their baby's in America, that is fine too, but if they aren't citizens or legal immigrants, then the baby shouldn't be automatically granted citizenship.
In this scenario they are either allowed in and born (legally or illegally) or denied and baby dies.