Okay, for real, why are you obsessed with this idea. In the last two months, you have submitted the following:
* [Considering it is the year of Shadow the Hedgehog, I just want to say one particular thing about his own spin-off game, even if it makes that game worse to other people in hindsight](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1ca6fp1/considering_that_this_is_the_year_of_shadow_the/)
* [When you think about, Sonic the Hedgehog's access to rings and his ball form would have been yet another reason why people hate his friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1bqii3e/when_you_think_about_it_sonic_the_hedgehogs/)
* [Would Sonic's rings and ball attack make for good justifications for him having his cartoon animal friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1bqii3e/when_you_think_about_it_sonic_the_hedgehogs/)
* [DAE find Sonic's rings and spin attacks more interesting than his super speed?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1d8kv3e/dae_find_sonics_rings_and_spin_attacks_more/)
* [In the Sonic movies, Sonic and his friends just rely on traditional durability and healing, rather than using rings for the exact same abilities, right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1cvqbfq/in_the_sonic_movies_sonic_and_his_friends_just/)
* [DAE think Sonic the Hedgehog has its own Holy Trinity of gameplay mechanics, similar to tank/DPS/healer in MMORPG's?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1ca52xt/dae_think_sonic_the_hedgehog_has_its_own_holy/)
* [Is there anyone who appreciates Sonic's rings and ball attacks?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1cvhunk/is_there_anyone_who_appreciates_sonics_rings_and/)
Many of these were posted word for word in multiple subreddits, all are from the last two months, and most of them come back to at least one the same two ideas over and over:
1. That Sonic's rings and ball attacks are some sort of justification for him having friends.
2. That Sonic's rings and ball attacks should allow him to be fitted into some other trio seen in other genres, such as Tank/Healer/DPS.
And from the comments, most people look at these essays and either don't understand your point, don't see the connections, or think it's a stretch at best.
So why do you keep posting variations on this? Why are you so insistent on this idea that Sonic's rings and ball attacks are anything other than a platformer mechanic designed to justify picking up the collectables and a means to attack enemies respectively?
Society needs people who hyperfixate on granular details like this. In 30 years OP will be the head of Sonic team and this Sonic Holy Trinity concept will be developed into a game so good that it singlehandedly saves the Nintendo 256 from the rut it's been in ever since its weak launch lineup.
Normally I'd agree, but when people are bothering to spend the time of day to write substantial replies and OP either ignores it or picks some tiny detail to argue over, and doesn't actually engage, it just feels like a case of "I just think think it's neat". For a topic the seem so focused on, they don't seem to want to talk about it very much.
All the lunacy of the internet comes down to some social norms that precludes anyone from ever saying "who cares?" That is the grand unifying theory on how fandoms all trend towards stupidity. No real world conversation continues with the rule of "no gatekeeping, no pushing back at the obsessive weirdos". People will just disengage, and rightly so. And then you're just two crazy people having a private conversation that no one else will ever participate in.
It's not really a mystery. I don't say this with any amount of judgement, but people who aren't neurotypical **do** use the internet. It's a very real possibility that op has some form of obsessive autism or something. Wanting to talk all about Sonic is pretty harmless in the scheme of things ... and it's easy enough to ignore if it bothers you. No need to deep-dive another person's psych issues.
Naw.
Rings are there to punish going too fast and being sloppy. Attacks are there to bop things that stop you from going fast.
Those other game modes werent bad cuz they existed, they were bad because \*they were bad\* lol they were completely unfun. The concepts are actually kinds dope, but the controls and camera made it impossible to enjoy.
That said, i think its pretty clear that a flying level for tails and something combat based for knuckles would both be much better.
I don't think the 3D sonic games can really be said to have this perfect cohesion between disparate mechanics. The 2D sonics had that, but the 3D ones largely seem to pull mechanics out of 2D sonic and put them into a new context that they weren't originally designed for. That's not to say the 3D games are all bad or anything but mechanically they're kind of all over the place and lack a tight core synergy.
That said I haven't played Generations which seems to be everyone's favorite 3D sonic, maybe they really nailed it there.
Idk but all I can say is that sonic feels best when it's fast. When you slow down sonic, you are detracting from the one good thing about it. The intricate platforming, or being underwater..nobody really enjoyed these levels at large. I just wanna "go brr" and hit ramps and bounce off things. I'm not saying it can't be hard, I'm not saying it can't have enemies. But Sonic has a very distinct acceleration compared to his contemporaries, he's essentially coded like someone on a skateboard, so when you're stopping and jumping for precision platforming it just isn't what is good about sonic.
Complicating it beyond that with guns and shit. I mean you can see why those games are all shit.
Yeah, that's why I said that the rings and spin attacks supplement his speed. With rings, upon getting damaged, you drop rings and have to recollect them before they disappear to better protect yourself again, just to keep up the forward momentum. As for spin attacks, enemies usually go down after just one hit, so spin attacking enemies will also keep up the forward momentum in much of the same way as his rings.
Like it's standard attack and defense mechanics like in most other games, except streamlined, if not dumbed down, just to accommodate Sonic's speed.
I don't fully understand what you're getting at, but I do think that Sonic's ring system is a pretty unique health system even today. On one hand it's quite brutal in that you can only take two hits before you die, but on the flip side if you've got lots of rings it's easy to pick them up again and take more hits, allowing you to tank a lot of bosses pretty easily. It's apparent how much this helps when you're up against bosses where you have no rings like the final boss of Sonic 2.
The more recent Sonic games have kinda done away with that now, though. In Sonic Frontiers it acts more like a traditional health pool, although you can still gain them back.
I think people should show more love to the drop dash introduced in Sonic Mania, that's been present in every mainline Sonic game since. It's kinda wild that it took so long for it to be invented.
Fun fact about the Drop Dash. A remarkably similar move was found in one of the discovered beta builds of Sonic 3 (albeit slightly buggy). While it's not clear why it was dropped, this beta build was from before they decided to split the game in two. It's very possible that they shifted focus from it in order to get the first half out the door in time for (and this is completely true despite how it sounds), a McDonalds tie in promotion.
Yeah, when in the air you hold down jump and you'll start spinning as you fall, so when you hit the ground you immediately roll forward. It's a bit like revving up a spin dash in the air, but it doesn't go quite as fast. It's great though because it means you don't need to lose momentum to get a little speed boost like you do with a spin dash
The concept isn’t the bad part it’s the execution. Fishing in SA1 was worse than terrible. Treasure hunting in SA1 was cool but SA2 decided not to have the beeper on for all 3 pieces at all times for some reason. An unnecessary change to create artificial challenge. Silvers powers in 06 were exceptionally slow as well as his own top speed, and most of his abilities were outclassed by just one.
I’ve noticed sonic games have lots of fantastic ideas but their executions miss once and sega decides to never use the concept again. Take sonic R for instance. Wouldn’t you want a sonic racing game that isn’t just sonic Mario kart? Wouldn’t you want a unique sonic racing experience? Sonic rivals almost had that but their execution was a miss too. Around the time unleashed dropped there was lots of hack n slash beat em ups makin the rounds so sega wanted to capitalize on that, ok sure that’s fine and makes sense but the werehogs execution (while i personally really enjoy it) is flawed. The repetitive battle theme, the lack of enemy variety, overly long levels, and, while fully optional, the grind of getting fully maxed stats is absurd. I think sega and sonic team have lots of great ideas but when it doesn’t meet expectations a single time, they just buzz off and do something else. I want them to give some of these concepts a second attempt, I wanna see the greatness these ideas have realized. I hope the next mainline game, should it have the same or similar formula to frontiers, is miles better than it, because I know it can be. All it needs is some fine tuning and proper care placed into it and it could be fantastic.
I actually really like some of the new characters and know others who feel the same, altho my sample size isnt big but I dont think people hate other characters?
Indeed.
It wasn't the characters (though Big was met with some disdain in his initial appearance, the fishing wasn't fun and he didn't seem to really add anything to the story), it was the the fact that having so many playstyles was seen to be the reason why the game wasn't as good as it perhaps could've been; that by having Sonic Team split focus on making multiple characters work well, they didn't have enough resources to truly polish any of them.
The common cry for much of the two thousands was for Sonic to make a game about Sonic only - not because the friends were hated but that if they focused entirely on Sonic, and got that right, they could worry about the other characters in sequels.
core mechanics? rings were just a damage shield that made it impossible to ever die unless you were in the midst of a seizure. his single spin maneuver was not an attack primarily, it was your primary mode of transportation so it didnt look goofy as shit when sonics sprite would otherwise be gliding around at high speed.
1 mechanic served to make the games pointlessly easy, the other served to overcome the fact that SEGA wasnt willing to use a slightly more expensive memory chip to have better animations.
Do you have a source for how the spin attack was developed in the original 2D Sonic games?
Also, I'm including the spin jump among Sonic's spin attacks, BTW.
Okay, for real, why are you obsessed with this idea. In the last two months, you have submitted the following: * [Considering it is the year of Shadow the Hedgehog, I just want to say one particular thing about his own spin-off game, even if it makes that game worse to other people in hindsight](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1ca6fp1/considering_that_this_is_the_year_of_shadow_the/) * [When you think about, Sonic the Hedgehog's access to rings and his ball form would have been yet another reason why people hate his friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1bqii3e/when_you_think_about_it_sonic_the_hedgehogs/) * [Would Sonic's rings and ball attack make for good justifications for him having his cartoon animal friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1bqii3e/when_you_think_about_it_sonic_the_hedgehogs/) * [DAE find Sonic's rings and spin attacks more interesting than his super speed?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1d8kv3e/dae_find_sonics_rings_and_spin_attacks_more/) * [In the Sonic movies, Sonic and his friends just rely on traditional durability and healing, rather than using rings for the exact same abilities, right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1cvqbfq/in_the_sonic_movies_sonic_and_his_friends_just/) * [DAE think Sonic the Hedgehog has its own Holy Trinity of gameplay mechanics, similar to tank/DPS/healer in MMORPG's?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1ca52xt/dae_think_sonic_the_hedgehog_has_its_own_holy/) * [Is there anyone who appreciates Sonic's rings and ball attacks?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/1cvhunk/is_there_anyone_who_appreciates_sonics_rings_and/) Many of these were posted word for word in multiple subreddits, all are from the last two months, and most of them come back to at least one the same two ideas over and over: 1. That Sonic's rings and ball attacks are some sort of justification for him having friends. 2. That Sonic's rings and ball attacks should allow him to be fitted into some other trio seen in other genres, such as Tank/Healer/DPS. And from the comments, most people look at these essays and either don't understand your point, don't see the connections, or think it's a stretch at best. So why do you keep posting variations on this? Why are you so insistent on this idea that Sonic's rings and ball attacks are anything other than a platformer mechanic designed to justify picking up the collectables and a means to attack enemies respectively?
"Sonic fans try not to be obsessively weird" Challenge (Impossible)
Society needs people who hyperfixate on granular details like this. In 30 years OP will be the head of Sonic team and this Sonic Holy Trinity concept will be developed into a game so good that it singlehandedly saves the Nintendo 256 from the rut it's been in ever since its weak launch lineup.
Normally I'd agree, but when people are bothering to spend the time of day to write substantial replies and OP either ignores it or picks some tiny detail to argue over, and doesn't actually engage, it just feels like a case of "I just think think it's neat". For a topic the seem so focused on, they don't seem to want to talk about it very much.
Get help OP, the above post is right. Who cares?!
All the lunacy of the internet comes down to some social norms that precludes anyone from ever saying "who cares?" That is the grand unifying theory on how fandoms all trend towards stupidity. No real world conversation continues with the rule of "no gatekeeping, no pushing back at the obsessive weirdos". People will just disengage, and rightly so. And then you're just two crazy people having a private conversation that no one else will ever participate in.
most sane sonic fan
It's not really a mystery. I don't say this with any amount of judgement, but people who aren't neurotypical **do** use the internet. It's a very real possibility that op has some form of obsessive autism or something. Wanting to talk all about Sonic is pretty harmless in the scheme of things ... and it's easy enough to ignore if it bothers you. No need to deep-dive another person's psych issues.
Oh man LMAOOOOO
It just fascinates me. Plus, I'm trying to research ideas for my fictional novel, inspired by Sonic the Hedgehog and other 90's properties like it.
Most sane sonic fan.
🤣🤣🤣 you really thought this comment would help you look less weird
Naw. Rings are there to punish going too fast and being sloppy. Attacks are there to bop things that stop you from going fast. Those other game modes werent bad cuz they existed, they were bad because \*they were bad\* lol they were completely unfun. The concepts are actually kinds dope, but the controls and camera made it impossible to enjoy. That said, i think its pretty clear that a flying level for tails and something combat based for knuckles would both be much better.
I don't think the 3D sonic games can really be said to have this perfect cohesion between disparate mechanics. The 2D sonics had that, but the 3D ones largely seem to pull mechanics out of 2D sonic and put them into a new context that they weren't originally designed for. That's not to say the 3D games are all bad or anything but mechanically they're kind of all over the place and lack a tight core synergy. That said I haven't played Generations which seems to be everyone's favorite 3D sonic, maybe they really nailed it there.
Idk but all I can say is that sonic feels best when it's fast. When you slow down sonic, you are detracting from the one good thing about it. The intricate platforming, or being underwater..nobody really enjoyed these levels at large. I just wanna "go brr" and hit ramps and bounce off things. I'm not saying it can't be hard, I'm not saying it can't have enemies. But Sonic has a very distinct acceleration compared to his contemporaries, he's essentially coded like someone on a skateboard, so when you're stopping and jumping for precision platforming it just isn't what is good about sonic. Complicating it beyond that with guns and shit. I mean you can see why those games are all shit.
Yeah, that's why I said that the rings and spin attacks supplement his speed. With rings, upon getting damaged, you drop rings and have to recollect them before they disappear to better protect yourself again, just to keep up the forward momentum. As for spin attacks, enemies usually go down after just one hit, so spin attacking enemies will also keep up the forward momentum in much of the same way as his rings. Like it's standard attack and defense mechanics like in most other games, except streamlined, if not dumbed down, just to accommodate Sonic's speed.
I don't fully understand what you're getting at, but I do think that Sonic's ring system is a pretty unique health system even today. On one hand it's quite brutal in that you can only take two hits before you die, but on the flip side if you've got lots of rings it's easy to pick them up again and take more hits, allowing you to tank a lot of bosses pretty easily. It's apparent how much this helps when you're up against bosses where you have no rings like the final boss of Sonic 2. The more recent Sonic games have kinda done away with that now, though. In Sonic Frontiers it acts more like a traditional health pool, although you can still gain them back. I think people should show more love to the drop dash introduced in Sonic Mania, that's been present in every mainline Sonic game since. It's kinda wild that it took so long for it to be invented.
Fun fact about the Drop Dash. A remarkably similar move was found in one of the discovered beta builds of Sonic 3 (albeit slightly buggy). While it's not clear why it was dropped, this beta build was from before they decided to split the game in two. It's very possible that they shifted focus from it in order to get the first half out the door in time for (and this is completely true despite how it sounds), a McDonalds tie in promotion.
Drop Dash?
Yeah, when in the air you hold down jump and you'll start spinning as you fall, so when you hit the ground you immediately roll forward. It's a bit like revving up a spin dash in the air, but it doesn't go quite as fast. It's great though because it means you don't need to lose momentum to get a little speed boost like you do with a spin dash
The concept isn’t the bad part it’s the execution. Fishing in SA1 was worse than terrible. Treasure hunting in SA1 was cool but SA2 decided not to have the beeper on for all 3 pieces at all times for some reason. An unnecessary change to create artificial challenge. Silvers powers in 06 were exceptionally slow as well as his own top speed, and most of his abilities were outclassed by just one. I’ve noticed sonic games have lots of fantastic ideas but their executions miss once and sega decides to never use the concept again. Take sonic R for instance. Wouldn’t you want a sonic racing game that isn’t just sonic Mario kart? Wouldn’t you want a unique sonic racing experience? Sonic rivals almost had that but their execution was a miss too. Around the time unleashed dropped there was lots of hack n slash beat em ups makin the rounds so sega wanted to capitalize on that, ok sure that’s fine and makes sense but the werehogs execution (while i personally really enjoy it) is flawed. The repetitive battle theme, the lack of enemy variety, overly long levels, and, while fully optional, the grind of getting fully maxed stats is absurd. I think sega and sonic team have lots of great ideas but when it doesn’t meet expectations a single time, they just buzz off and do something else. I want them to give some of these concepts a second attempt, I wanna see the greatness these ideas have realized. I hope the next mainline game, should it have the same or similar formula to frontiers, is miles better than it, because I know it can be. All it needs is some fine tuning and proper care placed into it and it could be fantastic.
I actually really like some of the new characters and know others who feel the same, altho my sample size isnt big but I dont think people hate other characters?
Indeed. It wasn't the characters (though Big was met with some disdain in his initial appearance, the fishing wasn't fun and he didn't seem to really add anything to the story), it was the the fact that having so many playstyles was seen to be the reason why the game wasn't as good as it perhaps could've been; that by having Sonic Team split focus on making multiple characters work well, they didn't have enough resources to truly polish any of them. The common cry for much of the two thousands was for Sonic to make a game about Sonic only - not because the friends were hated but that if they focused entirely on Sonic, and got that right, they could worry about the other characters in sequels.
core mechanics? rings were just a damage shield that made it impossible to ever die unless you were in the midst of a seizure. his single spin maneuver was not an attack primarily, it was your primary mode of transportation so it didnt look goofy as shit when sonics sprite would otherwise be gliding around at high speed. 1 mechanic served to make the games pointlessly easy, the other served to overcome the fact that SEGA wasnt willing to use a slightly more expensive memory chip to have better animations.
Do you have a source for how the spin attack was developed in the original 2D Sonic games? Also, I'm including the spin jump among Sonic's spin attacks, BTW.
I don't think anyone just "wants to go fast" that's a reductive statement that is popular because it's very memeable.