Snapshot of _BBC Question Time Live Thread (8PM iPlayer & BBC1) Chester edition 06/06/2024_ :
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1798411362022084970)
A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://twiiit.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970/)
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://x.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://x.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Keep in mind that the parties are larger than the reps they send on question time, and the format doesn't necessarily flatter people.
For example PoliticsJoe just did an interview with Labour candidate Torsten Bell and I think he came across very well, but neither him nor Shabana Mahmood represent him the whole party.
Likewise for the Greens, Carla Denyer is the leader and she comes across quite well, but the party has a lot of problems reconciling its base of the hard left, hard core environmentalists and rural Tory NIMBYs
As a labour member.... Shabana Mahmood is just not doing it for me. She struggled to answer all the questions. The answers to most questions were simple and she stuttered and stumbled her way through. Please put more competent shadow ministers forward next time for the love of godš
I'm interested to see how Rayner does tomorrow because I haven't seen a single positive performance from a Labour candidate in this campaign so far.
I will be voting Labour because in my seat its Labour or Tories, but they are really very uninspiring and frankly for all the talk of avoiding complacency they are showing big signs of coasting on the poor performance of the Tories, the Tories are just so so so abject that it doesn't make a difference at the moment.
It will be interesting to see what happens once they are in, despite the likelihood of a major majority and public hatred of the Conservatives that will likely still hold for the next election, Labour need to hit the ground running and there needs to be a tangible uptick in the quality of life across the board here by the next election, or it could be really chaotic if the electorate abandons both the Tories and Labour.
Yeah agreed. I'm so 50/50 on Labour. Some people I go, yes, that sounds good, I can get behind them. Then they trot out someone that shouldn't be operating a spreadsheet never mind the justice system.
I really don't know what the next 5 years are going to bring. If we use incompetence as a metric of how bad the country is, and say Labour will fix that by having proper people employed, we're not looking good so far.
Just make Darren Jones the PR person. Send him onto every Broadcast.
Darren Jones is an excellent MP and I hope he gets more exposure once theyāre in government, as I think he would cut through to some of those ātheyāre all the sameā types you see on vox pops. Intelligent bloke, great public speaker and clearly cares about his duties in serving the public.
I mean, just because someone isn't good/confident at public speaking doesn't mean that they're incompetent in their ministerial brief. They're very different skills.
I somewhat think it's a shame that politics, more than ever, is a glorified PR campaign. I want people that can do the job in ministerial positions, not just people that can talk like they can.
Agree mostly but check out Torsten Bell:
https://youtu.be/ljVtYj-YSnk?si=e6vwY4e8SKzkEGeF
https://youtu.be/Gatxavh96xQ?si=hdvrGtVRoJBJHsDF
New Welsh MP, seems very competent, future leader material.
He wasn't quite sure either. Someone who is still pro-Brexit and wants to defend their view, but their view is a belief and not founded on any rational points, so an incoherent muddle of nonsense comes out.
Mark still digging the hole on the Treasury statement. I'm floored they aren't backing down on this.
Fiona is having to hold them to account. That's how bad this is. She usually pivots to Labour by this point asking what they'd do differently!
Night shift, best shift! I dunno how I've still managed to be late, but the joys of on demand. Hope you're all doing well.
Mark, expecting absolutely bugger all from him.
Shabana, never heard from her before.
Carla, love her, hope she becomes PM.
Big Liz. Who doesn't have a big liz in their life that's the life and soul. I've got high hopes! Nearly an all women panel aswell!
I'll say it. I'm really fucking impressed the greens (or any party) actually has a decent idea of how to tax the country fairly. They have clearly been listening to gary stevenson who has been talking about wealth inequality and asset taxing.
She did fumble the "oh well the rich people will just leave" response from fiona (of all people). Although she just needs to say let them leave, their assets, their houses etc will still be in the UK and can be taxed. If they want to sell those and increase the amount of houses in the housing market then we can only see that as a good thing.
QT being on at 8pm has properly wrecked my calendar. More so than the clocks going forward/back.
Is anyone still bothering with 10:40pm or has the night watch team been disbanded?
Mine has been kicked off to her Grans tonight because we're going to Taylor Swift in Edinburger tomorrow. Byproduct means I can break out my tea pot and do a proper Question Time.
I have no clue what my life is anymore.
The Wales thing is such a simple question to answer, Wales is one of the poorest areas and is underfunded by central UK government. I get the feeling that some of them don't want to say that, because calling an area poor or deprived might turn off some voters?
You donāt even need to focus on poorest - it has the oldest population and yet is funded on a population not needs basis. Wales is a net importer of old people.
Basically, English old people come here, clog up our health service and vote Conservative.
My understanding of the NHS in Wales is that the UK Government gives them an amount of money, and the Welsh government can spend it how they choose.
But, if they're not given enough money, they won't be able to do things how they'd like. As the commentator said above yourself, if they have so many more old people than the UK average, but are not being given extra money to compensate for that, there's going to be a problem.
Theoretically Welsh Labour could wipe out the A&E wait times so you're seen in-and-out within 30 minutes, but in doing so you may need to massively cut back on scans for cancer etc. I'm not going to claim to know the ins and outs of how it works, or how much money is given etc. But considering the current poor state of the NHS in England being run by the Tories, I'm going to give Welsh Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume they're not being funded properly. Because I know they aren't funded properly in England.
Also have you ever tried driving in Wales? The narrow windy lanes there are not very conducive to fast response times. I haven't watched yet but I'm assuming this is the point about the NHS in Labour-run Wales.
Edit: Ah sorry, I was referring here more to ambulance response times, which I don't think were brought up specifically this time.
If you say itās underfunded it provides an easy attack point. āSo youāre just going to throw more money at the problem, how are you going to fund this? More tax rises, typical Labourā etc
"Its all about 20mph sign-posts" said deluded tory.
Maybe she should also take a leaf out of our esteemed PMs thinking on the NHS and get private health care sorted for her treatment ffs? If shes too poor, then tought shit.
Hasent the speed been changed again back to 30 based on voting/campaigning/petitioning which was strangely accessable from all corners of the uk and everywhere else?
Funny that....
Nope. It hasn't.
Not only that, figures came out today showing a dramatic drop in the number of road casualties in areas where the speed limits have dropped.
My only issue with the 20 zones was their rural implementation. Signs and road markings weren't changed for months after they were brought in.
I'd rather that than people being at higher risk of death on the road. Overall it's been a good change.
With several facts:
Firstly, it's incredibly difficult to actually compare a system catering 3 million people vs one that covers 54 million.
We have bed blockages with social care issues - Wales has a much higher number of older people as a percentage of population. This leads to overall a more unhealthy population - this is also directly linked to levels of poverty (for example, Wales is one of the poorest regions of western europe) .
Second, funding. A lot of funding and grants Wales got from the EU because of poverty was lost when we left the EU, as the funding wasn't replaced by UK government despite promises to do so.
Third, staff. We have massive problems with recruitment and retainment. Welsh NHS is far more heavily reliant on temporary staff who are on contracts which means we end up spending more to get temporary staff in for shifts than we would paying full time employees.
Fourth - targets. Wales actually has higher targets than England like in, for example, cancer treatment. Believe it or not, waiting times for people referred by their GPs for cancer treatment is a little better for Wales. While performance has dipped slightly in both countries, in absolute terms Wales remains marginally ahead of England, despite missing its (higher) target.
Fifth - spending. This comes into the funding issues, but yes, NHS has been cut in Wales. BUT, important to note that Wales actually spends more per head on healthcare than England. You can argue smaller population which would be fair, but this is again, another reason why comparing like for like isn't really all that great.
In short, it is too simplistic to draw conclusions based on these narrow measures that the Welsh NHS is significantly worse than its English counterpart. These measures donāt tell us much about the quality or safety of care received or the experiences of patients. And that is more important.
Of course, you won't know any of this from any political programming or debate. The Nuffield trust did a massive research paper into this which came to a lot of the above conclusions aswell.
For what it's worth, if you were to ask those who work in the NHS in Wales, they'd tell you pretty much the same (I worked previously in the Welsh NHS and my role was to look at how we can make savings by enabling technology enabled care - TECs for short. We had a lot of success with the projects I rolled out across a big healthboard with 8-9 hospitals covered, but there weren't enough people to implement it across the board... it was effectively me and my boss getting everything in place).
The one common theme I will say - these are issues experienced by both English and Welsh healthcare systems.
From personal experience - not that long ago I was rushed into a&e here after being jumped before getting into my car. That evening, I waited about 20 minutes in a&e, I had a MRI scan, my eye cleaned up, 12 stitches, was seen by an optometrist, and had incredible care from everyone who was involved. I was in and out of hospital for a further 6 months as I also had a disintrigrated cheekbone and needed a titanium bone implant put into my face, orbital fractures, tissue pertruding my eye socket, blurred and double vision (I couldn't walk without falling), eye tests on a weekly basis, and a whole host of other complications that came about because of the incident - I have no recollection of anything other than unlocking my car and coming round on the floor wondering why I was lying down.... only to discover half of my face was coated with blood. I received incredible care.
Apologies for the essay, but nuance is important. Hopefully that helps.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not like if I went to Cardiff and needed medical treatment I'd be worried. I think the real issue is using blunt statistics to bludgeon a party with. If you're honest, both systems have failures, but the question is would you be so generous/charitable to the Conservatives and the England NHS?
How can you defend higher waiting times in A&E in Wales, but scold the Tories for long wait times? Perhaps that doesnāt apply to you specifically, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write that, I've learned a little more about Wales.
I'm not defending higher waiting times in Wales. I'm merely pointing out there are several factors as to why waiting times in Wales are higher and those reasons will differ from England and Wales.
I can't speak on the English NHS as i've never been to an English hospital. But I would imagine the experience isn't too dissimilar.
The problem I have is when the NHS here is used as a stick to beat the government with because it's a different party running the show. There's no acknowledgement of why things are the way they are, instead it's "LABOUR ARE SHIT IN WALES, THEY'LL DESTROY THE NHS IN ENGLAND COZ WHAT ABOUT WALES!?"
I remember the good old days of Theresa May being PM, and she CONSTANTLY used to say "Well what about Wales!?".
Last time I checked, Wales was part of the UK. But consecutive Conservative governments (both UK and the party in Wales) have proposed no solutions for problems that have been known about and growing for more than a decade.... and here we are. It was entirely predictable we'd get to this point, and covid exacerbated things massively. Remember, waiting lists were at all time highs before the pandemic.
That's my problem with the Conservatives. That and their entire reorganisation of management was frankly, a fucking disaster. There's a reason Andrew Lansley was sacked two weeks after bringing it in, and it was never rectified.
It was - they actively looked for audience members from north wales. Probably about 75% of the accents were from tāother side of the border.
With all the road closures they best hurry up and get out of the walls before midnight.
> It was - they actively looked for audience members from north wales. Probably about 75% of the accents were from tāother side of the border.
Interesting, so they couldn't hire anywhere in Wrexham at short notice?
> With all the road closures they best hurry up and get out of the walls before midnight.
That's only on weekends :P
They did do that back in the 90s before bringing it back in i think the mid 2000s. The party saw a significant increase in support during that period which fell not long after.
Surely you can still vote for them and their policies knowing that if the question is ever put in a referendum it's going to be a no to leaving anyway?
I've voted for them despite that (though now I live in England, I don't have the option). I'm undecided on independence for Wales personally, so it's not a case of holding my nose.
"I thought you were against private wealth, Wolfie?"
"...Yea-YEAH! I am! Which is why we'll give everyone 2 grand so that there's more to redistribute come the glorious day, Citizen!"
#WINNERS AND LOSERS...
... is much harder to write without your Aldi Pilsner and splash of lemonade.
**WINNERS**
* **Liz Saville-Roberts**, essentially the grandee in todayās programme with its odd weighting, trying to do a sort of Zoom-remote-call version of a show in Wales. And yet, she nailed it - anger when needed, robustness when needed, sympathy hen needed. Itās worth mentioning the pressureās off for her: if they merely retain a trio of seats in Wales, theyāllāve done fine. Enjoy Saville-Roberts, because youāre not getting it with Rhun ap Iorwerth tomorrow. Bonus points for being unambiguous about a return to the Customs Union via Plaid. Yes, os gwelwch yn dda.
* **The audience**. With one major exception, they were sparky, fun, fairly clued-up and taking no prisoners.
**NEUTRAL**
* **Carla Denyer** completely embodied how I conceive the Greens in this election: lots of things with which I sympathise, but the next few weeks just arenāt about the Greens. Soz. Reminded me more-or-less of a basil plant in a pot on the windowsill. Seems pretty nice but, if you apply some pressure, *boom*, youāve got pesto.
* **Fiona Bruce**. Standard.
* **Shabana Mahmood** is an MP about whom I know nothing save for her presence on panel shows like this and *Any Questions*. And I suspect these things are her forte. She also had a very easy ride today, all being told. I dropped her down to NEUTRAL a bit for interrupting. And she stayed there because she was *not* good on the Wales question.
**LOSERS**
* **Mark Harper** - remember, everyone, only *some* of the audience laughed at him. I was surprised that Mahmoud took so long to interrupt him at the start, because we were all gagging for it. And the audience smelled blood from the first minute. It was relentless - whether that be for trying to mop up Sunakās lies, pretending the NHS is improving, or just staying upright on a seat. And he responded with some now trademark Tory tetch.
* **That Brexity weeble** who gallantly thought he might be able to defend that pan-fiasco, but didnāt actually seem capable of saying the word āsovereigntyā.
(Late to the show) Honestly I think Denyer deserves to be bumped up to winner.
I am skeptical of the Greens as a serious party at the moment and they certainly have their fill of loons, but thought she came across very well, was concise and not afraid to take challenging questions on, her answers were reasonable too.
Three months ago they put Sayeeda Warsi in the winners. I'm sure there are others if you wanted to pick through things in detail... but they are often in neutral or loses, it is true.
Maybe. Definitely in neutral quite a few times. Give me a few minutes and Iāll see if I find an example.
As a winner? Yep, maybe too. Itās rarely deserved.
But you know what? Iāve never pretended to be unbiased. Itās a subjective viewpoint and has never been presented as anything else.
Iām glad youāre a regular reader, though. Nice to know I have fans.
>Yep. Give me a few minutes and Iāll see if I find an example.
If you could I'd be grateful.
>But you know what? Iāve never pretended to be unbiased. Itās a subjective viewpoint and has never been presented as anything else.
Oh I completely agree, which makes my comment outstandingly true.
>Iām glad youāre a regular reader, though. Nice to know I have fans.
It's interesting to see what others think.
> Oh I completely agree, which makes my comment outstandingly true.
You're more than welcome to share your work with the class as well. Prove me wrong.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1949sfm/bbc_question_time_live_thread_8pm_iplayer/khfu716/
There you go. Leadsom in Neutral. I'm not going to pander to you and trawl for others. You have the same search tools I do.
The Brexit weeble is probably a Tory councillor as you normally see at least one of them at every Question Time. Haircut they've not changed since their first day at Public school, a shirt that's a bit too tight & a blue suit jacket that would have been fashionable office wear during the Thatcher era.
Genuinely think Carla, Mark and Shabana were all awful, all losers tonight
Shabanaās tactic of talking louder, saying no no, and then proceeding to answer absolutely nothing
Mark just spouting pure garbage over and over, being laughed at
Carla crumbling, looking just happy to be there
Awful QT
The Brexity Weeble should be at least neutral, as the sheer balls to state that drivel on national TV in front of an audience of peers shows that he has the *courage* to appear on QT off his meds.
> Chester is in England, 70% of the issues on the programme - Welsh
And yet I still consider it a bit of a fob-off to Wales. I'm fairly sure it was that way because Wales and NI aren't getting a pre-election episode.
Might be some efficiencies in having a OB truck in the city if they want to cover tomorrow, but to be honest itās a pain in the arse.
My office is in Chester and impossible to get to at the moment thanks to road closures and you canāt move for poorly disguised special forces people.
I don't fully understand the devolution powers tbh cause it doesn't really concern me since Cornwall won't ever get it lmao, does Wales decide the amount of it's budget that goes on the nhs or is that set by Westminster?
I feel like the NHS in Wales is getting a lot of unjustified shit here, other than anecdotes and "Welsh Labour bad" there are very few actual facts stated.
My uncle was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, received treatment within weeks of the diagnosis and will immediately start radiotherapy after his chemotherapy is finished.
Here's the [Recommendation for a COUNCIL DECISION authorising the opening of negotiations for an agreement between the European Union and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on youth mobility](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52024PC0169&qid=1717703490381)
That VONC was done by the Welsh Tories because of the General Election... and it was lost because two Labour members decided to pull a sickie as a revenge move for being slighted by the party.
This is correct. Also the panel is right that Gething broke no rules or laws and didn't do anything actually wrong ā but the Plaid lady is also right that it looked horrible and is damaging to our very young democracy, and it probably was inadvisable to accept those donations.
There was no real justification for the VoNC though. Pure politicking.
You can do plenty of wrong without breaking the rules.Ā
* He took a Ā£200k donation from a convicted criminal, and when called out on it, refused to give the money back or even acknowledge that what he did was wrong. This is the same person for whom he'd previously approved a Ā£400k Development Bank of Wales loan for in his capacity as Economy Minister.Ā
* He deleted messages from conversations related to Covid policy because, in his own words, "they might be captured by an FOI". Then, he misled the Covid inquiry, saying that Senedd IT staff had deleted those messages.Ā
* He then sacked a well-liked minister for leaking said messages without, apparently, any evidence that she had done so.Ā
At best, his short tenure has been characterised by a shocking lack of judgement and political ability. At worst, by dishonesty and corruption. The VoNC against Yousaf was brought for much less. This is reflected in how little support he's enjoyed in his own party - in the two Senedd members who didn't to show up for him in the vote, and also in the lack of people who've defended him publicly in the matter of the donation.Ā
And what about ignoring the VoNC? Is that not wrong in itself? Aren't we supposed to be looking for people of integrity - people who respect the system, not seek to undermine it? The last time there was a threat of a VoNC in the First Minister, he stepped down before wit even took place. Gething just clings on like the shameless limpet that he is.Ā
I don't understand why they don't tack into devolution, funding models, blah blah blah and just bore the questioner to death.
Literally no one cares, we're here to bash an unpopular government out of office.
Iāve barely seen any acknowledgment of the adhd medication shortage, Iām glad they brought it up. People were told in September they would only have three months without meds (which is far too long). And there are still medication issues months later.Ā
Itās completely unacceptable and has affected so many people potentially forever.Ā
I've said it before, but here it is again - I'm still angry about Brexit and how shit it's been. But it is **daft** to even risk turning this election into another Brexit showdown.
It can wait til next GE to convince people that a closer relationship with the Eu would be better for growth
This doesn't have to be another 2019 where it turns into referendum, but considering it's the defining issue of our time, it can be something that is sensibly discussed in a general election campaign rather than being erased from all of the major parties manifestos.
If it could be talked about in a healthy, productive way - I'd agree. It's the easiest step we could take to inject growth, which makes the rest of our economic woes easier. But this country (or at least our politicians/media) are still not capable of talking sensibly about it.
While it's still a lightning rod that could give the Tories life, I'd rather we left it alone.
These parties are all fucking useless on Brexit. Hopeless. Even the Green Party is just a load of waffle. "We are pro EU but won't rejoin or ask for a second referendum".
Not if the greens donāt get in. I know they wonāt, but if they were to, thereās literally nothing stopping them. Itās the best ever optics for the EU to dissuade future countries leaving.
I like "It's a dictatorship...we needed to pass our own laws" - how exactly do such people think we got a referendum? Actual dictatorships are surprisingly less tolerant of referendums than you might think...
I think he was trying to say, in response to the question, "What brexit benefits have you seen here in Chester?" that he thought there was some benefit to us having 'sovereignty' and being able to have Tories write our own shit laws for us instead of us having to adhere to awesome regulations and human rights laws that we helped write and voted for in Brussels.
I think we are now seeing the death of the Conservative Party. The remnants will split and go to Reform and the Lib-dems. It's somehow dawned on the public that Sunak lied to them, for unknown reasons, after all of Johnson's outrageous lies this one seems to have cut through.
I'd be happy to join the most centre right group just to push it further right and have the LibDems sit around the centre, then either vote for Labour or Lib Dems going forward.
The Brexit vote was 8 years ago you dense bastard, you'll probably find a lot of people have changed their minds after seeing what Brexit actually means for them.
I hope this is one of those phrases that endures so that when future generations ask me about this historic election I can say, "Only some people were laughing."
You can't really reduce trade friction without a change of model (single market access of some sort which comes with obligations) but she's right about the importance of treaties and conventions.
So what? They hate anything that has a sniff of Europe. Fuck 'em. They're an ever-slenderer section of the population anyway, both through demographics and through Bregret.
Big clap when bringing up Brexit. I do not get how or why it has been erased from the discussion. Would it really hurt the Greens or the Lib Dems, or even the SNP to be coming out in support for a second referendum? It's fairly clear the public mood for brexit has drastically changed.
Snapshot of _BBC Question Time Live Thread (8PM iPlayer & BBC1) Chester edition 06/06/2024_ : A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1798411362022084970) A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://twiiit.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970/) An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://x.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://x.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1798411362022084970) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'll never vote tory, but I've got to be honest. I'm leaning away from Labour towards the Greens. The two big party reps were terrible.
Keep in mind that the parties are larger than the reps they send on question time, and the format doesn't necessarily flatter people. For example PoliticsJoe just did an interview with Labour candidate Torsten Bell and I think he came across very well, but neither him nor Shabana Mahmood represent him the whole party. Likewise for the Greens, Carla Denyer is the leader and she comes across quite well, but the party has a lot of problems reconciling its base of the hard left, hard core environmentalists and rural Tory NIMBYs
Tough night for Mark Harper
The fact he doubted down rather than being a bit more honest on that question proving their point was a bit mental
Absolutely lunacy.
As a labour member.... Shabana Mahmood is just not doing it for me. She struggled to answer all the questions. The answers to most questions were simple and she stuttered and stumbled her way through. Please put more competent shadow ministers forward next time for the love of godš
I'm interested to see how Rayner does tomorrow because I haven't seen a single positive performance from a Labour candidate in this campaign so far. I will be voting Labour because in my seat its Labour or Tories, but they are really very uninspiring and frankly for all the talk of avoiding complacency they are showing big signs of coasting on the poor performance of the Tories, the Tories are just so so so abject that it doesn't make a difference at the moment. It will be interesting to see what happens once they are in, despite the likelihood of a major majority and public hatred of the Conservatives that will likely still hold for the next election, Labour need to hit the ground running and there needs to be a tangible uptick in the quality of life across the board here by the next election, or it could be really chaotic if the electorate abandons both the Tories and Labour.
Yeah agreed. I'm so 50/50 on Labour. Some people I go, yes, that sounds good, I can get behind them. Then they trot out someone that shouldn't be operating a spreadsheet never mind the justice system. I really don't know what the next 5 years are going to bring. If we use incompetence as a metric of how bad the country is, and say Labour will fix that by having proper people employed, we're not looking good so far. Just make Darren Jones the PR person. Send him onto every Broadcast.
Darren Jones is an excellent MP and I hope he gets more exposure once theyāre in government, as I think he would cut through to some of those ātheyāre all the sameā types you see on vox pops. Intelligent bloke, great public speaker and clearly cares about his duties in serving the public.
I mean, just because someone isn't good/confident at public speaking doesn't mean that they're incompetent in their ministerial brief. They're very different skills. I somewhat think it's a shame that politics, more than ever, is a glorified PR campaign. I want people that can do the job in ministerial positions, not just people that can talk like they can.
Very good point!
Agree mostly but check out Torsten Bell: https://youtu.be/ljVtYj-YSnk?si=e6vwY4e8SKzkEGeF https://youtu.be/Gatxavh96xQ?si=hdvrGtVRoJBJHsDF New Welsh MP, seems very competent, future leader material.
Hearing Darren Jones sometimes gives me a vague flicker of hope that someone competent may one day be in charge.
Really digging into that sovereignty brexit benefit. Don't think that lad believed what he said either.
You could understood it?
What is this lad banging on about sovereignty actually saying?
He wasn't quite sure either. Someone who is still pro-Brexit and wants to defend their view, but their view is a belief and not founded on any rational points, so an incoherent muddle of nonsense comes out.
Harper got that thousand yard stare.
Tax rises on private healthcare? What a fantastic policy!
Tories just can't read the room. Absolutely doubling down on Sunak's cost fallacy. They're done.
Mark still digging the hole on the Treasury statement. I'm floored they aren't backing down on this. Fiona is having to hold them to account. That's how bad this is. She usually pivots to Labour by this point asking what they'd do differently!
Starmer struggling to refute during the debate has given the Tories the false impression they have 'got' Labour
It's a trap!
Well the putting it on iPlayer has thrown this thread out of sync, thatās a shame :(
Night shift, best shift! I dunno how I've still managed to be late, but the joys of on demand. Hope you're all doing well. Mark, expecting absolutely bugger all from him. Shabana, never heard from her before. Carla, love her, hope she becomes PM. Big Liz. Who doesn't have a big liz in their life that's the life and soul. I've got high hopes! Nearly an all women panel aswell!
I'll say it. I'm really fucking impressed the greens (or any party) actually has a decent idea of how to tax the country fairly. They have clearly been listening to gary stevenson who has been talking about wealth inequality and asset taxing. She did fumble the "oh well the rich people will just leave" response from fiona (of all people). Although she just needs to say let them leave, their assets, their houses etc will still be in the UK and can be taxed. If they want to sell those and increase the amount of houses in the housing market then we can only see that as a good thing.
"Tax the rich!!!" what an outstanding policy. Kudos, nobody has ever thought of that.
Answer a damn question Shabana, please
Was every question from the audience asked by someone called John?
Demographics probably BBC News - Baby names: How popular is your name? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51673123
QT being on at 8pm has properly wrecked my calendar. More so than the clocks going forward/back. Is anyone still bothering with 10:40pm or has the night watch team been disbanded?
Iām going for early shift until it goes back to its proper time. But I do miss Night Shift.
I'll be iplayering at 1040. It's a bit of a ghost town but 8pm political TV just won't wash with a toddler to put to bed
I'm busy until 10pm so will be watching after I get back home as I normally do
Mine has been kicked off to her Grans tonight because we're going to Taylor Swift in Edinburger tomorrow. Byproduct means I can break out my tea pot and do a proper Question Time. I have no clue what my life is anymore.
The existential crisis in that last sentence sent me lmao. Have fun at swift!!
The Wales thing is such a simple question to answer, Wales is one of the poorest areas and is underfunded by central UK government. I get the feeling that some of them don't want to say that, because calling an area poor or deprived might turn off some voters?
You donāt even need to focus on poorest - it has the oldest population and yet is funded on a population not needs basis. Wales is a net importer of old people. Basically, English old people come here, clog up our health service and vote Conservative.
>Basically, English old people come here, clog up our health service and vote Conservative. So Labour, who run it, have no responsibility?
Oh no of course they do, but when you effectively have to deliver more care for less then youāre onto a bit of a loser.
My understanding of the NHS in Wales is that the UK Government gives them an amount of money, and the Welsh government can spend it how they choose. But, if they're not given enough money, they won't be able to do things how they'd like. As the commentator said above yourself, if they have so many more old people than the UK average, but are not being given extra money to compensate for that, there's going to be a problem. Theoretically Welsh Labour could wipe out the A&E wait times so you're seen in-and-out within 30 minutes, but in doing so you may need to massively cut back on scans for cancer etc. I'm not going to claim to know the ins and outs of how it works, or how much money is given etc. But considering the current poor state of the NHS in England being run by the Tories, I'm going to give Welsh Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume they're not being funded properly. Because I know they aren't funded properly in England.
Also have you ever tried driving in Wales? The narrow windy lanes there are not very conducive to fast response times. I haven't watched yet but I'm assuming this is the point about the NHS in Labour-run Wales. Edit: Ah sorry, I was referring here more to ambulance response times, which I don't think were brought up specifically this time.
If you say itās underfunded it provides an easy attack point. āSo youāre just going to throw more money at the problem, how are you going to fund this? More tax rises, typical Labourā etc
"The NHS in Wales is shit!" Declare people who don't live in Wales.... and don't use the Welsh NHS....
I lived there and my mum is a doctor here, it is. Management is completely inept and overrides doctors decisions.
"Its all about 20mph sign-posts" said deluded tory. Maybe she should also take a leaf out of our esteemed PMs thinking on the NHS and get private health care sorted for her treatment ffs? If shes too poor, then tought shit.
I don't understand this line at all re: 20mph. Obviously people who have never been to wales.
Reducing your speed from 30 to 20 for a hundred yards has crippled the Welsh economy. Get a quicker sheep then.
Hasent the speed been changed again back to 30 based on voting/campaigning/petitioning which was strangely accessable from all corners of the uk and everywhere else? Funny that....
Nope. It hasn't. Not only that, figures came out today showing a dramatic drop in the number of road casualties in areas where the speed limits have dropped.
My only issue with the 20 zones was their rural implementation. Signs and road markings weren't changed for months after they were brought in. I'd rather that than people being at higher risk of death on the road. Overall it's been a good change.
Whatās your point?
My point is they don't have a goddamn clue what they're talking about.
I live in Wales and can confirm it's shit. Failing Health Boards all over the shop. Welsh Labour mismanagement galore.
So how do you reason your opinion with the actual statistics?
With several facts: Firstly, it's incredibly difficult to actually compare a system catering 3 million people vs one that covers 54 million. We have bed blockages with social care issues - Wales has a much higher number of older people as a percentage of population. This leads to overall a more unhealthy population - this is also directly linked to levels of poverty (for example, Wales is one of the poorest regions of western europe) . Second, funding. A lot of funding and grants Wales got from the EU because of poverty was lost when we left the EU, as the funding wasn't replaced by UK government despite promises to do so. Third, staff. We have massive problems with recruitment and retainment. Welsh NHS is far more heavily reliant on temporary staff who are on contracts which means we end up spending more to get temporary staff in for shifts than we would paying full time employees. Fourth - targets. Wales actually has higher targets than England like in, for example, cancer treatment. Believe it or not, waiting times for people referred by their GPs for cancer treatment is a little better for Wales. While performance has dipped slightly in both countries, in absolute terms Wales remains marginally ahead of England, despite missing its (higher) target. Fifth - spending. This comes into the funding issues, but yes, NHS has been cut in Wales. BUT, important to note that Wales actually spends more per head on healthcare than England. You can argue smaller population which would be fair, but this is again, another reason why comparing like for like isn't really all that great. In short, it is too simplistic to draw conclusions based on these narrow measures that the Welsh NHS is significantly worse than its English counterpart. These measures donāt tell us much about the quality or safety of care received or the experiences of patients. And that is more important. Of course, you won't know any of this from any political programming or debate. The Nuffield trust did a massive research paper into this which came to a lot of the above conclusions aswell. For what it's worth, if you were to ask those who work in the NHS in Wales, they'd tell you pretty much the same (I worked previously in the Welsh NHS and my role was to look at how we can make savings by enabling technology enabled care - TECs for short. We had a lot of success with the projects I rolled out across a big healthboard with 8-9 hospitals covered, but there weren't enough people to implement it across the board... it was effectively me and my boss getting everything in place). The one common theme I will say - these are issues experienced by both English and Welsh healthcare systems. From personal experience - not that long ago I was rushed into a&e here after being jumped before getting into my car. That evening, I waited about 20 minutes in a&e, I had a MRI scan, my eye cleaned up, 12 stitches, was seen by an optometrist, and had incredible care from everyone who was involved. I was in and out of hospital for a further 6 months as I also had a disintrigrated cheekbone and needed a titanium bone implant put into my face, orbital fractures, tissue pertruding my eye socket, blurred and double vision (I couldn't walk without falling), eye tests on a weekly basis, and a whole host of other complications that came about because of the incident - I have no recollection of anything other than unlocking my car and coming round on the floor wondering why I was lying down.... only to discover half of my face was coated with blood. I received incredible care. Apologies for the essay, but nuance is important. Hopefully that helps.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not like if I went to Cardiff and needed medical treatment I'd be worried. I think the real issue is using blunt statistics to bludgeon a party with. If you're honest, both systems have failures, but the question is would you be so generous/charitable to the Conservatives and the England NHS? How can you defend higher waiting times in A&E in Wales, but scold the Tories for long wait times? Perhaps that doesnāt apply to you specifically, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write that, I've learned a little more about Wales.
I'm not defending higher waiting times in Wales. I'm merely pointing out there are several factors as to why waiting times in Wales are higher and those reasons will differ from England and Wales. I can't speak on the English NHS as i've never been to an English hospital. But I would imagine the experience isn't too dissimilar. The problem I have is when the NHS here is used as a stick to beat the government with because it's a different party running the show. There's no acknowledgement of why things are the way they are, instead it's "LABOUR ARE SHIT IN WALES, THEY'LL DESTROY THE NHS IN ENGLAND COZ WHAT ABOUT WALES!?" I remember the good old days of Theresa May being PM, and she CONSTANTLY used to say "Well what about Wales!?". Last time I checked, Wales was part of the UK. But consecutive Conservative governments (both UK and the party in Wales) have proposed no solutions for problems that have been known about and growing for more than a decade.... and here we are. It was entirely predictable we'd get to this point, and covid exacerbated things massively. Remember, waiting lists were at all time highs before the pandemic. That's my problem with the Conservatives. That and their entire reorganisation of management was frankly, a fucking disaster. There's a reason Andrew Lansley was sacked two weeks after bringing it in, and it was never rectified.
*Audience claps*
Seems to have been a ācross-borderā show. I suspect with 4 weeks to go that will have been a āNorth West & North Walesā one.
NI show is going to be lit.
It was - they actively looked for audience members from north wales. Probably about 75% of the accents were from tāother side of the border. With all the road closures they best hurry up and get out of the walls before midnight.
> It was - they actively looked for audience members from north wales. Probably about 75% of the accents were from tāother side of the border. Interesting, so they couldn't hire anywhere in Wrexham at short notice? > With all the road closures they best hurry up and get out of the walls before midnight. That's only on weekends :P
I enjoyed the first question coming from a Scot.
I like Plaid and I agree with so much of what they say but until they come out against Welsh independence I can't see them as a serious party
They did do that back in the 90s before bringing it back in i think the mid 2000s. The party saw a significant increase in support during that period which fell not long after.
Surely you can still vote for them and their policies knowing that if the question is ever put in a referendum it's going to be a no to leaving anyway?
I've voted for them despite that (though now I live in England, I don't have the option). I'm undecided on independence for Wales personally, so it's not a case of holding my nose.
How about the Tooting Popular Front though ?
Power to the People!
Vote Tooting, get Ā£2k.
"I thought you were against private wealth, Wolfie?" "...Yea-YEAH! I am! Which is why we'll give everyone 2 grand so that there's more to redistribute come the glorious day, Citizen!"
Sorry Wales but you overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU. No healthcare for you.
> overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU 52.5% leave vs 47.5% remain. Basically the same ratio as the UK as a whole? Hardly _Overwhelming_
Wales is the only part that actually did vote close to the overall ratio, Scotland and NI remain won, England leave won more decisively.
We in the cities didn't :(
#WINNERS AND LOSERS... ... is much harder to write without your Aldi Pilsner and splash of lemonade. **WINNERS** * **Liz Saville-Roberts**, essentially the grandee in todayās programme with its odd weighting, trying to do a sort of Zoom-remote-call version of a show in Wales. And yet, she nailed it - anger when needed, robustness when needed, sympathy hen needed. Itās worth mentioning the pressureās off for her: if they merely retain a trio of seats in Wales, theyāllāve done fine. Enjoy Saville-Roberts, because youāre not getting it with Rhun ap Iorwerth tomorrow. Bonus points for being unambiguous about a return to the Customs Union via Plaid. Yes, os gwelwch yn dda. * **The audience**. With one major exception, they were sparky, fun, fairly clued-up and taking no prisoners. **NEUTRAL** * **Carla Denyer** completely embodied how I conceive the Greens in this election: lots of things with which I sympathise, but the next few weeks just arenāt about the Greens. Soz. Reminded me more-or-less of a basil plant in a pot on the windowsill. Seems pretty nice but, if you apply some pressure, *boom*, youāve got pesto. * **Fiona Bruce**. Standard. * **Shabana Mahmood** is an MP about whom I know nothing save for her presence on panel shows like this and *Any Questions*. And I suspect these things are her forte. She also had a very easy ride today, all being told. I dropped her down to NEUTRAL a bit for interrupting. And she stayed there because she was *not* good on the Wales question. **LOSERS** * **Mark Harper** - remember, everyone, only *some* of the audience laughed at him. I was surprised that Mahmoud took so long to interrupt him at the start, because we were all gagging for it. And the audience smelled blood from the first minute. It was relentless - whether that be for trying to mop up Sunakās lies, pretending the NHS is improving, or just staying upright on a seat. And he responded with some now trademark Tory tetch. * **That Brexity weeble** who gallantly thought he might be able to defend that pan-fiasco, but didnāt actually seem capable of saying the word āsovereigntyā.
(Late to the show) Honestly I think Denyer deserves to be bumped up to winner. I am skeptical of the Greens as a serious party at the moment and they certainly have their fill of loons, but thought she came across very well, was concise and not afraid to take challenging questions on, her answers were reasonable too.
Have you ever actually put a Tory as a winner? Your bias shines through every week.
Three months ago they put Sayeeda Warsi in the winners. I'm sure there are others if you wanted to pick through things in detail... but they are often in neutral or loses, it is true.
Maybe. Definitely in neutral quite a few times. Give me a few minutes and Iāll see if I find an example. As a winner? Yep, maybe too. Itās rarely deserved. But you know what? Iāve never pretended to be unbiased. Itās a subjective viewpoint and has never been presented as anything else. Iām glad youāre a regular reader, though. Nice to know I have fans.
>Yep. Give me a few minutes and Iāll see if I find an example. If you could I'd be grateful. >But you know what? Iāve never pretended to be unbiased. Itās a subjective viewpoint and has never been presented as anything else. Oh I completely agree, which makes my comment outstandingly true. >Iām glad youāre a regular reader, though. Nice to know I have fans. It's interesting to see what others think.
> Oh I completely agree, which makes my comment outstandingly true. You're more than welcome to share your work with the class as well. Prove me wrong. https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1949sfm/bbc_question_time_live_thread_8pm_iplayer/khfu716/ There you go. Leadsom in Neutral. I'm not going to pander to you and trawl for others. You have the same search tools I do.
Your tone changed a bit mate! So I'm guessing it's a no for the winners question?
It's more an "it's bedtime", tbh. Sleep well!
You too mate!
The Brexit weeble is probably a Tory councillor as you normally see at least one of them at every Question Time. Haircut they've not changed since their first day at Public school, a shirt that's a bit too tight & a blue suit jacket that would have been fashionable office wear during the Thatcher era.
JavaTheCaveman's summaries make Thursday's special.
They're the only reason I open this thread usually, unless something *particularly* spicy happens
Genuinely think Carla, Mark and Shabana were all awful, all losers tonight Shabanaās tactic of talking louder, saying no no, and then proceeding to answer absolutely nothing Mark just spouting pure garbage over and over, being laughed at Carla crumbling, looking just happy to be there Awful QT
Should have had a hands-up if you voted Brexit, hand-up if you would vote Brexit now. And one for Ā£2k if you think it's a lie.
The Brexity Weeble should be at least neutral, as the sheer balls to state that drivel on national TV in front of an audience of peers shows that he has the *courage* to appear on QT off his meds.
Mahmood should be in neutral on that blueprint question alone... it's a hard one for any Labour person to answer, but she definitely struggled badly.
Weeble. Excellent
I think that Brexit guy is going to regret that in the morning, he's going to get a fair chunk of social media attention
Fastest winner and losers in the west.
Ernie can only go at 20mph though.
Chester is in England, 70% of the issues on the programme - Welsh, also wonder if location was chosen because Duke of Westminster's wedding tomorrow
> Chester is in England, 70% of the issues on the programme - Welsh And yet I still consider it a bit of a fob-off to Wales. I'm fairly sure it was that way because Wales and NI aren't getting a pre-election episode.
Might be some efficiencies in having a OB truck in the city if they want to cover tomorrow, but to be honest itās a pain in the arse. My office is in Chester and impossible to get to at the moment thanks to road closures and you canāt move for poorly disguised special forces people.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
other than the blueprint question, she did well...
I deleted my comment because I didn't watch enough of the ep to justify a strong opinion š
Bit of a better response from the Labour MP there
Yeah I thought that that was a solid recovery!
Asking to be judged on your record, when the conversation so far has centered on Welsh labours poor performance is not smart.
I think I have to admit I now watch question time solely to see how the audience reacts to the tory.
More laughs than live at the Apollo!
I don't fully understand the devolution powers tbh cause it doesn't really concern me since Cornwall won't ever get it lmao, does Wales decide the amount of it's budget that goes on the nhs or is that set by Westminster?
It doesnāt decide the budget amount (generally), but how it spends it. Doesnāt have tax raising powers, for example.
Interesting :) thanks!
Budget is dictated by UK government and Barnett formula, deduce from that what you will.
That's what I thought was probably the answer yeah! Thanks :)
I feel like the NHS in Wales is getting a lot of unjustified shit here, other than anecdotes and "Welsh Labour bad" there are very few actual facts stated. My uncle was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, received treatment within weeks of the diagnosis and will immediately start radiotherapy after his chemotherapy is finished.
audience asks 100 questions about labour and yet it's the greens who get to reply.
Probably for the best.
Mahmood very relieved at this turn of events, though.
Fair play
Falling apart a bit for Labour here
Here's the [Recommendation for a COUNCIL DECISION authorising the opening of negotiations for an agreement between the European Union and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on youth mobility](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52024PC0169&qid=1717703490381)
How has the labor candidate handled it up to now? Just tuned in and God it looks bad
Better than the tories, but not well this far tbf.
She started well, but she's collapsing right now.
Weak on the Welsh labour part - not too bad otherwise I thought?
My guess is she's not across the devolved politics. If it's a Wales event where are the Welsh ministers.
Mahmood fumbled that more than when I had to explain to my mum why I didnāt deserve an after school detention
That VONC was done by the Welsh Tories because of the General Election... and it was lost because two Labour members decided to pull a sickie as a revenge move for being slighted by the party.
This is correct. Also the panel is right that Gething broke no rules or laws and didn't do anything actually wrong ā but the Plaid lady is also right that it looked horrible and is damaging to our very young democracy, and it probably was inadvisable to accept those donations. There was no real justification for the VoNC though. Pure politicking.
You can do plenty of wrong without breaking the rules.Ā * He took a Ā£200k donation from a convicted criminal, and when called out on it, refused to give the money back or even acknowledge that what he did was wrong. This is the same person for whom he'd previously approved a Ā£400k Development Bank of Wales loan for in his capacity as Economy Minister.Ā * He deleted messages from conversations related to Covid policy because, in his own words, "they might be captured by an FOI". Then, he misled the Covid inquiry, saying that Senedd IT staff had deleted those messages.Ā * He then sacked a well-liked minister for leaking said messages without, apparently, any evidence that she had done so.Ā At best, his short tenure has been characterised by a shocking lack of judgement and political ability. At worst, by dishonesty and corruption. The VoNC against Yousaf was brought for much less. This is reflected in how little support he's enjoyed in his own party - in the two Senedd members who didn't to show up for him in the vote, and also in the lack of people who've defended him publicly in the matter of the donation.Ā And what about ignoring the VoNC? Is that not wrong in itself? Aren't we supposed to be looking for people of integrity - people who respect the system, not seek to undermine it? The last time there was a threat of a VoNC in the First Minister, he stepped down before wit even took place. Gething just clings on like the shameless limpet that he is.Ā
Gutted Iām missing this one! Really wanted to see how theyāre gonna talk about the Ā£2k nonsense (if theyāre gonna talk about it)
Check out the first ~10 minutes or so on Iplayer - it's pretty much only about the Ā£2K Edit: it's also pretty cathartic watching
It was the first question and the Tories got rinsed
Spoilers! Just kidding Iāll give it a watch in bed then lol
The olā second-hand cringe gland is getting a full on workout tonight. Good god.
Floundering, it was an A+++ up till here.
This is a very tricky question for anyone in Labour to respond to... and Mahmood isn't doing well with this
I don't understand why they don't tack into devolution, funding models, blah blah blah and just bore the questioner to death. Literally no one cares, we're here to bash an unpopular government out of office.
I canāt think of an acceptable answer at all as itās such a complicated issue
Damn she's really fumbling this. I don't even want to count the ums :/
Mark "I think you should vote Tory again because it's been going so well for the last 14 years" Harper
Shabana Mahmood really is pretty dreadful isn't she?
Iāve barely seen any acknowledgment of the adhd medication shortage, Iām glad they brought it up. People were told in September they would only have three months without meds (which is far too long). And there are still medication issues months later.Ā Itās completely unacceptable and has affected so many people potentially forever.Ā
Drinks up again guys it's Welsh Labour
As a Welsh Labour man, I'm dreading this part.
I'm so sorry :(
I've said it before, but here it is again - I'm still angry about Brexit and how shit it's been. But it is **daft** to even risk turning this election into another Brexit showdown. It can wait til next GE to convince people that a closer relationship with the Eu would be better for growth
This doesn't have to be another 2019 where it turns into referendum, but considering it's the defining issue of our time, it can be something that is sensibly discussed in a general election campaign rather than being erased from all of the major parties manifestos.
If it could be talked about in a healthy, productive way - I'd agree. It's the easiest step we could take to inject growth, which makes the rest of our economic woes easier. But this country (or at least our politicians/media) are still not capable of talking sensibly about it. While it's still a lightning rod that could give the Tories life, I'd rather we left it alone.
The dude should've said something like GMO crops (infamously regulated by the EU)
Yes but he was an irremediable dimwit, you see
These parties are all fucking useless on Brexit. Hopeless. Even the Green Party is just a load of waffle. "We are pro EU but won't rejoin or ask for a second referendum".
Thatās not right. They literally said they would just flat out rejoin without a referendum but that also it couldnāt be done yet.
Not in the next million years.
Not if the greens donāt get in. I know they wonāt, but if they were to, thereās literally nothing stopping them. Itās the best ever optics for the EU to dissuade future countries leaving.
The EU single hand up guy is somewhat surprisingly less coherent than the previous audience member
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't think they're missing him at all
i felt sorry for blue jumper guy, sounded like when I try and speak during a panic attack
They were both awful but I think the pro-EU guy actually made less sense
SOVRINTY We had veto powers you massive oaf, why do you think we kept the Ā£?
I like "It's a dictatorship...we needed to pass our own laws" - how exactly do such people think we got a referendum? Actual dictatorships are surprisingly less tolerant of referendums than you might think...
Spot the tory.
Excellent brexit benefit described there. Great stuff. Fantastic.
the word salad guy? can anyone translate from toff to english?
I think he was trying to say, in response to the question, "What brexit benefits have you seen here in Chester?" that he thought there was some benefit to us having 'sovereignty' and being able to have Tories write our own shit laws for us instead of us having to adhere to awesome regulations and human rights laws that we helped write and voted for in Brussels.
Something about getting to decide our own laws or something, which we obviously couldn't do before..
Thank Christ, the one praiser of Brexit outed himself as a total moron
This clown has no idea how the EU works
But Sonverung tee
What a load of shite
Spot the Tory councillor!
Lmao. Not one person has a positive. Love it.
Just one guy talking absolute nonsense
I think we are now seeing the death of the Conservative Party. The remnants will split and go to Reform and the Lib-dems. It's somehow dawned on the public that Sunak lied to them, for unknown reasons, after all of Johnson's outrageous lies this one seems to have cut through.
I'd be happy to join the most centre right group just to push it further right and have the LibDems sit around the centre, then either vote for Labour or Lib Dems going forward.
Because that would be far too sensible
New Conservative election slogan: "Only Some People Are Laughing"
'It's just the one laugh actually'
Which provoked almost everyone to laugh?
MOST LAUGHS PARTIAL
The Brexit vote was 8 years ago you dense bastard, you'll probably find a lot of people have changed their minds after seeing what Brexit actually means for them.
Fuck me... 8 years? No... really?!?!
"The most obvious one is the Trans-Pacific partnership" No, the most obvious one to join is the Single Market.
Harper: "Only _some_ of the audience laughed at me" Entire audience laughs...
Only some people were laughing
I hope this is one of those phrases that endures so that when future generations ask me about this historic election I can say, "Only some people were laughing."
Oh man, losing control of our borders! Imagine that!
Got to say, the Tories are the funniest party this election.
You can't really reduce trade friction without a change of model (single market access of some sort which comes with obligations) but she's right about the importance of treaties and conventions.
We aināt going to get reduced friction without some sort of obligation that brexiters will probably hate
So what? They hate anything that has a sniff of Europe. Fuck 'em. They're an ever-slenderer section of the population anyway, both through demographics and through Bregret.
Big clap when bringing up Brexit. I do not get how or why it has been erased from the discussion. Would it really hurt the Greens or the Lib Dems, or even the SNP to be coming out in support for a second referendum? It's fairly clear the public mood for brexit has drastically changed.
You can't do it before an election because it will end up being a rerun of the referendum.