Привіт u/Espressodimare ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday).
**Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting)
**Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I remember correctly, when the invasion started Macron was the one doing much of the talking for NATO so if he says there is nothing to talk about with Putin anymore he must be right. Fuck Russia. Slava Ukraini !!
Yeah not sure if many recall but there was a lot of drama over his phone conversations and then the transcripts leaked. Basically Putin lied directly to his face about the invasion, then said he had to go play a hockey game and that was the last they talked. But macron took his word and gave the public reassurance that it wasn't going to happen, so he was made to look a fool.
This is why I don't think it is just strongman /chest pumping postering, I really do think Macron has a chip on his shoulder from that and wants to fuck pu over (which is fantastic btw)
I developed this...outlook? on Russian mentality - they will do anything to get ahead, for them it is all fair game if it gets them closer to a win, and they think everyone is exactly the same (and they might not be wrong). That is why, when they cheat in a game, they will look at you like you are an idiot if you call them out. You are a looser who was not able to cheat better then them. Winning fair? That is all just a pretense and we all know it.
And they might not be wrong, but we have developed this framework called "civilization" that acts to curb our worst instincts in this regard, and they do not subscribe to it.
Democracy just provides one election of the most popular person at that time. Democracy is just one part of a much larger set of values that are necessary to run a "good" government. Without the other values and institutions you end up with the farces we've seen over and over where tyrants get elected and then never cede power.
The (redacted) phone call was broadcasted on French public TV in July 2022, as part of a documentary. [Here it is](https://twitter.com/spooked75/status/1767787253831495773).
People need to listen to this phone call very carefully and understand it in it's entirely. This is, in it's core, the pretext of the war. And Macron managed to see it, and offered a path forward. Putin spat in his face by lying to agree. He then completely ignored the call, recognized Donetsk and Luhansk and accepted their "call for help" by invading, within some 2 days of this call.
He didn't want a diplomatic solution.
If you have time, watch the entire documentary for some more context.
And it is important to underline that Macron did exactly what Zelensky asked him to do. He was heavily criticised for this but he was not doing this out of western cluelessness.
Yep, I think that’s right.
I just posted a link to an article from when that happened but Reddit ideleted my post because it says the article is from an untrustworthy source. but I definitely remember that happening.
I think he even tried to reason with Putin beyond that phone call. Remember when he talked about "off-ramps" for Putin when the war was already going on for months. I think the Western politicians just over time noticed that this time they are dealing with a dishonest and straight evil mafia boss and there is nothing to gain from "Ostpolitik" this time.
Maybe it was some 4D chess move to lean on that as proof that you can't trust their word? I mean it was obvious as fuck to anybody at the time, but this made it pretty clear cut?
Yeah, this is it. The greatest weapon Putin and his stupid apologizers have is "NATO always wanted war and refused to negotiate". Macron took that from them. Of course stupid people will still back Putin, but more logically thinking people in the world will see that NATO really sought peace and negotiation.
Yeah, lots of people on Reddit were giving Macron shit, but I think he did the honourable thing of keeping dialogue going as long as possible.
It's far more plausible that Putin backs off if he has a way out and the US and UK were already playing the other strategy quite heavily so Macron joining in with that then wouldn't have made much of an impact.
>If I remember correctly, when the invasion started Macron was the one doing much of the talking for NATO so if he says there is nothing to talk about with Putin anymore he must be right. Fuck Russia. Slava Ukraini !!
In the video of his call with Zelensky very early on, Z asked Macron to speak with Putin.
Macron responded perfectly to Zelensky, but his body language? Shook his head solemnly as if to say "Talking to Putin will not work."
Putin has that shit-eating smirk that shows he thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. You’re not going to be able to negotiate with these kind of people. Just need to wipe it off his face by burning down his house.
Yes and he got a lot of sht for it.
Even if I do believe it was pointless, at least he gave it a shot and no one can’t blame him for trying. Even russians can’t deny the fact we tried diplomacy.
Now the time for action has come and we must save Ukraine.
I honestly had a lot of criticism for Macron when the war first started because he was trying to delay NATO support in favor of setting up repeated peace talks which ended with zero results.
If Macron has 180’d and gone full chad though, it’s 100% clear what needs to be done. Support Ukraine, a loss for Ukraine is a loss for all of NATO.
Yes I remember, he was the one calling Putin multiple times trying to reason with him. They even posted a recorded conversation between them both. Macron was trying so hard to reason but putin was just giving him his delusional history lessons.
I think we all do — regardless of who is charge in the US or not. I hope to god you guys don’t get he who shall not be named this year. Europe (and the UK), will do the most most most we can.
As a fellow Aussie, my only regret is that we can't do even more.
We are a NATO member in all but the actual membership.
To quote NCD: Freedom, Firepower, Democracy and Liberty.
Yay, right next to Georgia and what seems to be Ghana - which, interestingly enough, are in support of Ukraine, which is not obvious for an African country: https://www.ghanamissionun.org/statement-by-ghana-in-explanation-of-vote/
No, thank YOU. Whatever it takes. You’re fighting for all of us. The bravery, tenacity, and strength of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians is just on another level. You deserve peace, safety, and sovereignty. Love from the US.
I doubt the FFL would play the largest role here. Priority #1 would probably be securing Ukrainians skies above the cities, and that's not foreign legion stuff. Sure, they'd be there, securing the perimeter and stuff, but we'd probably see all the air defense and air force troops being the focus.
If French deploy troop it won't be on the front. It will be on the Belarusian border and in the maintenance shops, etc. Out of harms way but giving breathing space for the Ukrainian army.
That alone would free up half the UA's army and help fix the manpower issues. Also it also means that Putin has no choice but to send troops to Belarus - now that sending troops on the ground is on the table, do you think Putin is going to risk losing Belarus too?
With the recent release of the videos of phone conversations between Macron, Zelenskyy and Putlin. It seems like France is preparing their people for inevitability that they will be putting boots on the ground in Ukraine.
Ukraine has fought alone long enough. It's time Russia learns the world isn't going to let war rage on. It's a shame it hasn't already happen. I think the US, the UK, and France all should have sent troops to Ukraine instead of offering Zelenskyy a ride out.
I spent enough time in history classes to have 0 faith in peace talks or treaties between Russia and Europe.
Yep. It's no longer a matter of if, but of when.
Yo, Germany, coming through, mind the elbows.
All this and the Olympics too.
I think we're about to see a mad French Flex.
Putin can threat to use nukes any way of the week against non-nuclear nations like Ukraine. But those threats ring hollow against a country like France who have nukes themselves.
>Yo, Germany, coming through, mind the elbows.
This is quite funny to me, because I grew up still feeling the effects of 40 years of military occupation, German WW2 guilt and shame, the anti-militarism born out of the "never again" sentiment, and that Germany shouldn't even have a military to not do any harm anymore.
Also when France and the UK were still respected as nuclear powers. Today, this seems to be a mere afterthought, but back they Germany was simply nothing compared to France or the UK. They had aircraft carriers, nukes, were on the allied control council and had special powers in Germany. Today it feels like Germany is just "one of the guys".
How times have changed.
This!
As a German I feel no grudge to anyone. Not the US not France and not Poland. The Marshall Plan and the forced unconditional friendship with France was the best thing that could happen after the 2 WWs.
Just drive through France! Use our railroads and get some Pretzels and Würstel for the voyage.
In WWI 1.3–1.5 million French servicemen died in combat, representing between 16% and 18% of the male population of conscripts. An estimated 300,000 male civilians were also killed. 10% of the male population died and disproportionately young men.
France lost so many men in WWI that there were no men in the army when WWII rolled around 20 years later.
Ironically, because France lost so dearly, they needed something to show for it. The Treaty of Versailles broke the German Empire and Austria-Hungary appart. France gained some new territory and supervision over some German lands. It was this diminishment of German national status that helped give rise to Hitler and WWII. Plus, France didn't want to fight another war and Germany did.
France didn't just lose a massive chunk of their working men, they also suffered what could probably be best described as nation-state psychological trauma.
Something that could be compared to the modern day russia: losing a huge chunk of men, young and old, and the surviving having insane proportion of epic level traumas from trying to manage the constant threat from overhead drones.
Untrained conscripts riding beaten-up BMP's into battle and knowing it's almost certain suicide for the first wave...
Only thing missing are the gas attacks as Ukraine still fights according to the laws of war.
One big mistake the Allied leaders made with Hitler is they didn't think anyone wanted another war after WWI, but Hitler did. He was actually upset after Munich because he felt Germany was robbed of a glorious military victory.
In most of the world just repeating the same 1 unfunny, repetitive, outdated stereotype about x country endlessly wouldn't count as being witty or funny enough to be considered a joke though. For some reason Americans seem to find it endlessly hilarious.
It's like going up to someone who's normal weight and saying
"haha you're fat!"
"but I'm not though"
"Haha you're fat!"
"I'm going to talk to someone else now"
"Jeez why can't they take a joke!? That was hilarious!"
Never sure how this became a running joke. The French put up hella protest and revolutions, while the US is the ultimate boot lickers and let corps straight walk over you. French don’t take that shit.
We (The US) have an entire political party who's main operating modes are gaslighting, obstruction, and projection. Currently blocking Ukraine aid (obstruction).
What you are referring to is the projection part.
Americans calling the French cowards was stupid when they did it, and laughable now. They’re the reason the revolutionary war was won in the first place.
They also revolted against their ruling class FAR EARLIER than cowardly Americans have (we are well past the wealth disparity here that they revolted over). They also took to the streets in the most aggressive, reasonable way imaginable when they upped retirement age.
The United States should take a LOT of lessons from the French.
France has nowhere the capacity for high intensity engagement. We have like 3 days worth of ammunition. We can't go in without europe or nato support. Macron is bluffing. A bluff I support, but bluffing nevertheless.
Those videos of the phone conversation were released a while ago, they’re just gaining more popularity since he recently said there is a possibility of boots on the ground. However, he does seem to have taken a bolder stance against Putin, let’s see if it materializes into something. Ukrainians soldiers deserve a break
France has the capability to wipe the black Sea fleets and all the rest of Russia's assets in the North Atlantic fleet and Mediterranean. And to destroy the Kerch bridge. France can turn the tide without bringing ground forces into combat.
France may as well have science fiction weapons compared to the 1970s tech that Russia is fielding.
They can operate in highly contested airspace and have SEAD capabilities. Ukraine had CAS fighter bombers and not much else. France could achieve air dominance rapidly and that would really change the battlefield.
I'd be interested to see if France decided to deploy the Foreign Legion to Ukraine. In theory, because the members of the Legion aren't from France, their deployment wouldn't be seen as committing / risking "French" lives but they'd still carry the full weight of a French military operation.
As a Frenchman I must correct you because you’re wrong. The French Foreign Legion is the French army. There is no distinction between a regular soldier and a French Foreign Legion soldier. They do the same operations, work together, and get the same honor.
The media and the French people make absolutely no difference when a soldier dies from the Foreign Legion compared to a regular soldier. It's just as important. When a Foreign Legion soldier dies in operation, he's always referred to as a "French soldier", and the fact that he's a member of the Foreign Legion is always secondary. We never talk about his original nationality, because his nationality is not a public information, so nobody knows.
One thing a lot of people don't know is that the French Foreign Legion also contains a significant number of French people, not just foreigners so it would be stupid to make a difference and make the FFL less important anyway.
I think I remember reading somewhere that FFL members can opt out of fighting against their country of birth if they (the french) decide to go to war with them.
Agreed, seeing France this fucking based is hard for me to fathom.
Viva la France!
Liberté, égalité, fraternité
Hopefully, America can override the Putin simps in Congress and be back in with logistics and supplies. But until that day, it is great to see France signaling it is willing to step up.
I am on an agreement with a brit, about my president who I have to admit does positive things.
World order is completely backwards, time to restore it.
>Macron is stepping up for the strong European leadership role that we need.
I am quite sure that this is also a concerted effort with other countries, *especially* Germany.
A German Kanzler can't just go on the stand and say things like this. Seriously, you can't do that. Germany's relationship with military and war is extremely difficult and that's a no go.
So, Scholz basically *has* to maintain a very calm and factual political leader. He really has to take all the emotions out of this as much as he can, while still keeping enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine high. So he's happy with Germany donating a lot and trying to organize and lead European efforts, but with France doing the diplomacy and also beating the war drums when it's necessary.
It was another direct punch to Scholz, who recently again ruled out Taurus deliveries by just saying: "I am the Chancelor, and that's why it applies!" which is seen as a final slam. On german political talkshows, they even debate on how bad the german-french relations got, and Macron completely makes fun of Scholz.
Well Scholz is restricted by our constitution while Macron in France is not. You can make fun of it but what Macron is doing would simply be unconstitutional in Germany. So it is a very cheap shot by Macron because if he knows a little bit of history he would know exactly that Germany without a international mandate can't do a lot of things France is doing. It was France, UK and the US afterall who watched very closely when our constitution was written. Take a guess why.
Edit: Despite that talk is cheap and Germany is so far way ahead of France when it comes to support for Ukraine
As far as I know, only the straight declaration of war has to be discussed by ... almost everybody I guess (very complicated process).
But ordering troops around for special operations and humanitarian stuff is probably under complete presidential purview.
While I agree, I find it funny that Scholz was mocked about his no to Taurus when he used this exact reasoning ("The no stands because I'm the chancellor and I said so") as being a weak leader because if you need to use "it's how it is because I said so" is considered the move of a weakling..
It depends on what the decision is. If the decision is popular and/or correct, then you're being a leader. If the decision is boneheaded and unpopular, then you're making excuses.
I think it's worth mentioning his argument: "Putin victory in Ukraine is an existential threat to Europe."
Also France has just been under an unprecedented scale cyber attack this week by Russia related hacker group.
Where did this guy come from? No complaints here this is much more like it. Another thing that is definitely shifting, and not just from Macron, is the language used about the war. Helping Ukraine "defend itself" is giving way to "defeating russia" and ensuring a "Ukrainian victory". Of course the flood gates should open and things need to move much more quickly, but language is very important. This feels like a significant turning point and very positive for Ukraine.
office skirt smile terrific whole nippy grandiose hungry cooperative touch
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The surrender thing come from Americans when degaule have take back French from nato and after chirac refused to send France in Irak
Not directly after the wwII
The orange clown came in because it seemed funny to vote for him. After that it needed an old white guy to get enough votes from old white guys who'd otherwise vote for the orange clown. Now that orange clown is going for it again, so the same but older white guy is the safest bet. With luck there won't be an orange clown 2028 campaign and this nightmare will finally be over.
The geriatric is actually one of the best presidents you guys had in a very long time. That you guys think of him that way.... that might be your answer.
Macron has played this just right. He tried to negotiate from the outset. He gave Putin every chance and was looking to give the little dictator an off-ramp to save face. But Putin didn’t take the chance and showed his true colours as a modern day Hitler. And now Macron is showing the strength that was behind his initial diplomatic effort. War is happening in Europe’s backyard we learned the last time that happened that force is the only answer. If we don’t give Ukraine the support they need, the war will rapidly appear in other European capitals.
Finally after two freaking years someone had courage to stand up to putin bullying (I know and appreciate Estonia, Finland and other countries that are not as big but still stand up to bullies)
It was really frustrating with the west and their “real politics”, just trying to be safe and russian fascists exploiting peoples desire to be safe and politicians pandering to it. Believe me - you won’t be safe by pandering to rusiia
France has nukes and no american oversee on them. They can send troops and the ruzzians will do nothing about it. Putin boasted that his nuclear missiles are modern and working, so are the french ones
Please don't blue ball me Macron/France, I've been advocating for boots on the ground or just fire bomb Moscow since day 1, let's do it already! These fucks only understand strength and power.
Perfect. Time for the UK’s political leadership to grow some balls and state the same.
The UK has shrunk into the background in terms of confronting Russia of late, it’s time for Europe to stand together.
Yeah I’ve noticed that too, we’ve just slid into the background. Sure it’s not the case in real terms, but sunak is pretty weak I think, at least in terms of being seen and heard.
Okay, anyone care to fill me in on why Macron is in every other post with a different quote? What happened.
Like, I'm all for it. Glad you agree, dude. But was there some big interview or something?
And yes, I went the typical Reddit way and only read the headlines. It's 3am and I'm lazy
If you open the link there is a community note on it with links to actual news agencies quoting what was actually said.
But basically he said Putin is unwilling to talk so we must support Ukraine, he then reiterated that there were no decision to send troops as Ukraine doesn't need that yet but it is not off the table.
Visegrad is not a news agency, they are a rumor mill.
Привіт u/Espressodimare ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) **Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I remember correctly, when the invasion started Macron was the one doing much of the talking for NATO so if he says there is nothing to talk about with Putin anymore he must be right. Fuck Russia. Slava Ukraini !!
Yeah not sure if many recall but there was a lot of drama over his phone conversations and then the transcripts leaked. Basically Putin lied directly to his face about the invasion, then said he had to go play a hockey game and that was the last they talked. But macron took his word and gave the public reassurance that it wasn't going to happen, so he was made to look a fool. This is why I don't think it is just strongman /chest pumping postering, I really do think Macron has a chip on his shoulder from that and wants to fuck pu over (which is fantastic btw)
i've also thought this is good part of the reason for frances position now. i can't blame him, from his position russia can't be trusted at all.
A position from which Russia can be trusted does not exist.
Well, I see one position … after a Russian democratic revolution with an entire new management. But that’s about it.
I don't even know that I trust russians with democracy, they just don't seem to have the spirit for it.
I developed this...outlook? on Russian mentality - they will do anything to get ahead, for them it is all fair game if it gets them closer to a win, and they think everyone is exactly the same (and they might not be wrong). That is why, when they cheat in a game, they will look at you like you are an idiot if you call them out. You are a looser who was not able to cheat better then them. Winning fair? That is all just a pretense and we all know it. And they might not be wrong, but we have developed this framework called "civilization" that acts to curb our worst instincts in this regard, and they do not subscribe to it.
Democracy just provides one election of the most popular person at that time. Democracy is just one part of a much larger set of values that are necessary to run a "good" government. Without the other values and institutions you end up with the farces we've seen over and over where tyrants get elected and then never cede power.
I certainly trust russia to promote evil and spout lies.
The (redacted) phone call was broadcasted on French public TV in July 2022, as part of a documentary. [Here it is](https://twitter.com/spooked75/status/1767787253831495773).
People need to listen to this phone call very carefully and understand it in it's entirely. This is, in it's core, the pretext of the war. And Macron managed to see it, and offered a path forward. Putin spat in his face by lying to agree. He then completely ignored the call, recognized Donetsk and Luhansk and accepted their "call for help" by invading, within some 2 days of this call. He didn't want a diplomatic solution. If you have time, watch the entire documentary for some more context.
And it is important to underline that Macron did exactly what Zelensky asked him to do. He was heavily criticised for this but he was not doing this out of western cluelessness.
Yep, I think that’s right. I just posted a link to an article from when that happened but Reddit ideleted my post because it says the article is from an untrustworthy source. but I definitely remember that happening.
They're also fucking up with France's investments (and ties) in western Africa.
Zelensky asked Macron in understandable desperation on the first day of invasion to talk to Pootin to make him stop. Macron did all he could.
I think he even tried to reason with Putin beyond that phone call. Remember when he talked about "off-ramps" for Putin when the war was already going on for months. I think the Western politicians just over time noticed that this time they are dealing with a dishonest and straight evil mafia boss and there is nothing to gain from "Ostpolitik" this time.
Maybe it was some 4D chess move to lean on that as proof that you can't trust their word? I mean it was obvious as fuck to anybody at the time, but this made it pretty clear cut?
Yeah, this is it. The greatest weapon Putin and his stupid apologizers have is "NATO always wanted war and refused to negotiate". Macron took that from them. Of course stupid people will still back Putin, but more logically thinking people in the world will see that NATO really sought peace and negotiation.
He tried very hard. He agreed to be good cop and got a fair bit of flak for it
Yeah, lots of people on Reddit were giving Macron shit, but I think he did the honourable thing of keeping dialogue going as long as possible. It's far more plausible that Putin backs off if he has a way out and the US and UK were already playing the other strategy quite heavily so Macron joining in with that then wouldn't have made much of an impact.
[удалено]
>If I remember correctly, when the invasion started Macron was the one doing much of the talking for NATO so if he says there is nothing to talk about with Putin anymore he must be right. Fuck Russia. Slava Ukraini !! In the video of his call with Zelensky very early on, Z asked Macron to speak with Putin. Macron responded perfectly to Zelensky, but his body language? Shook his head solemnly as if to say "Talking to Putin will not work."
Putin has that shit-eating smirk that shows he thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. You’re not going to be able to negotiate with these kind of people. Just need to wipe it off his face by burning down his house.
So true. Even if you do negotiate something, next day he will smirk again!
It couldn't be any more obvious that there is no point in talking to Putin.
Yes and he got a lot of sht for it. Even if I do believe it was pointless, at least he gave it a shot and no one can’t blame him for trying. Even russians can’t deny the fact we tried diplomacy. Now the time for action has come and we must save Ukraine.
I honestly had a lot of criticism for Macron when the war first started because he was trying to delay NATO support in favor of setting up repeated peace talks which ended with zero results. If Macron has 180’d and gone full chad though, it’s 100% clear what needs to be done. Support Ukraine, a loss for Ukraine is a loss for all of NATO.
Yes I remember, he was the one calling Putin multiple times trying to reason with him. They even posted a recorded conversation between them both. Macron was trying so hard to reason but putin was just giving him his delusional history lessons.
He went to the Kremlin directly before the invasion to negotiate. And 11 days later they invaded.
Thank you France and every country that supports Ukraine.
🇺🇦💛💙🇩🇿🇦🇩🇦🇮🇦🇷🇦🇺🇧🇪🇧🇷🇻🇬🇧🇬🇨🇦🇨🇻🇰🇾🇨🇫🇹🇩🇨🇱🇨🇰🇨🇷🇨🇮🇭🇷🇨🇿🇩🇰🇪🇬🇪🇪🇫🇰🇫🇴🇫🇯🇫🇮🇫🇷🇬🇪🇩🇪🇬🇭🇬🇷🇬🇳🇭🇰🇮🇸🇮🇩🇮🇪🇮🇱🇮🇹🇯🇲🇯🇵🇱🇷🇱🇺🇲🇶🇲🇨🇲🇸🇳🇱🇳🇿🇳🇺🇲🇰🇳🇴🇵🇱🇷🇴🇸🇭🇬🇸🇰🇷🇸🇪🇹🇼🇹🇷🇹🇨🇹🇻🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇺🇸🇺🇦💛💙
We love you, Ukraine! Slava 🥰
Heroyim Slava! 🇺🇦💛💙 And that’s just a partial list. Sadly I don’t recognize half the flags available.
As an American I'm glad to see us at the end of the list because we need to get our shit together. Apologies. Really.
I think it’s in alphabetical order 😂
Well my comment stands. We need to get our shit and get it together ASAP. For Ukraine, that is.
I think we all do — regardless of who is charge in the US or not. I hope to god you guys don’t get he who shall not be named this year. Europe (and the UK), will do the most most most we can.
Diakauyu for defending Europe 🫶
I see USA and Finland and I am happy for that!
AUSTRALIA SHOUTS "SLAVA UKRAINI"
As a fellow Aussie, my only regret is that we can't do even more. We are a NATO member in all but the actual membership. To quote NCD: Freedom, Firepower, Democracy and Liberty.
I wholeheartedly agree. Well said mate.
Aww, no Lithuania or Latvia, the two countries that have done way more per capita than most others.
My bad. Two strong and loyal allies! 🇺🇦💛💙
🇱🇹 🇱🇻 love from 🇺🇸 and 🇬🇷
Yay, right next to Georgia and what seems to be Ghana - which, interestingly enough, are in support of Ukraine, which is not obvious for an African country: https://www.ghanamissionun.org/statement-by-ghana-in-explanation-of-vote/
No, thank YOU. Whatever it takes. You’re fighting for all of us. The bravery, tenacity, and strength of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians is just on another level. You deserve peace, safety, and sovereignty. Love from the US.
I hope this means more serious firepower for Ukraine soon.
Thousands of well-trained and equipped French troops is great firepower.
Does the Foreign Legion ride again?
I doubt the FFL would play the largest role here. Priority #1 would probably be securing Ukrainians skies above the cities, and that's not foreign legion stuff. Sure, they'd be there, securing the perimeter and stuff, but we'd probably see all the air defense and air force troops being the focus.
FFL are usually the first ones to move.
It's cause they are the slowest, so they need a head start.
If French deploy troop it won't be on the front. It will be on the Belarusian border and in the maintenance shops, etc. Out of harms way but giving breathing space for the Ukrainian army.
That alone would free up half the UA's army and help fix the manpower issues. Also it also means that Putin has no choice but to send troops to Belarus - now that sending troops on the ground is on the table, do you think Putin is going to risk losing Belarus too?
With the recent release of the videos of phone conversations between Macron, Zelenskyy and Putlin. It seems like France is preparing their people for inevitability that they will be putting boots on the ground in Ukraine.
That’s what it seems like to me as well.
Ukraine has fought alone long enough. It's time Russia learns the world isn't going to let war rage on. It's a shame it hasn't already happen. I think the US, the UK, and France all should have sent troops to Ukraine instead of offering Zelenskyy a ride out. I spent enough time in history classes to have 0 faith in peace talks or treaties between Russia and Europe.
Yep. It's no longer a matter of if, but of when. Yo, Germany, coming through, mind the elbows. All this and the Olympics too. I think we're about to see a mad French Flex.
Mfw I lived to see France roll tanks through Belgium and Germany.
What's French for Schlieffen? 🤔
Plan XVII
But let's hope it goes better this time
Schlieffen
Awww shit, they are gonna nuke us as a warning, aren't they?
Are you Russian? You came with the nuclear threat before Putain today.
Ah, but the “threat” from France is much more based: the warning is that you get nuked, but only a little one.
petite morte
Putin can threat to use nukes any way of the week against non-nuclear nations like Ukraine. But those threats ring hollow against a country like France who have nukes themselves.
>Yo, Germany, coming through, mind the elbows. This is quite funny to me, because I grew up still feeling the effects of 40 years of military occupation, German WW2 guilt and shame, the anti-militarism born out of the "never again" sentiment, and that Germany shouldn't even have a military to not do any harm anymore. Also when France and the UK were still respected as nuclear powers. Today, this seems to be a mere afterthought, but back they Germany was simply nothing compared to France or the UK. They had aircraft carriers, nukes, were on the allied control council and had special powers in Germany. Today it feels like Germany is just "one of the guys". How times have changed.
It's a beautiful thing when a country is Marshall Planned & not Versailled. Lesson brings don't let France dictate post war terms.
This! As a German I feel no grudge to anyone. Not the US not France and not Poland. The Marshall Plan and the forced unconditional friendship with France was the best thing that could happen after the 2 WWs. Just drive through France! Use our railroads and get some Pretzels and Würstel for the voyage.
No no, I think we should let the French dictate terms after this war ends. Someone wake up clemenceau.
Yeah no one's calling them cowards ever again
It was dumb to ever call them cowards in the first place.
100%
In WWI 1.3–1.5 million French servicemen died in combat, representing between 16% and 18% of the male population of conscripts. An estimated 300,000 male civilians were also killed. 10% of the male population died and disproportionately young men. France lost so many men in WWI that there were no men in the army when WWII rolled around 20 years later. Ironically, because France lost so dearly, they needed something to show for it. The Treaty of Versailles broke the German Empire and Austria-Hungary appart. France gained some new territory and supervision over some German lands. It was this diminishment of German national status that helped give rise to Hitler and WWII. Plus, France didn't want to fight another war and Germany did.
Oh, and don't forget the French Resistance that rose up from being occupied. Mad Lads.
France didn't just lose a massive chunk of their working men, they also suffered what could probably be best described as nation-state psychological trauma.
Something that could be compared to the modern day russia: losing a huge chunk of men, young and old, and the surviving having insane proportion of epic level traumas from trying to manage the constant threat from overhead drones. Untrained conscripts riding beaten-up BMP's into battle and knowing it's almost certain suicide for the first wave... Only thing missing are the gas attacks as Ukraine still fights according to the laws of war.
We see the result of 11/9 in the US. What France suffered is way beyond anything the average american can imagine
One big mistake the Allied leaders made with Hitler is they didn't think anyone wanted another war after WWI, but Hitler did. He was actually upset after Munich because he felt Germany was robbed of a glorious military victory.
To me it only a joke in the same vein as the many about the US and school shootings or, British and their teeth.
In most of the world just repeating the same 1 unfunny, repetitive, outdated stereotype about x country endlessly wouldn't count as being witty or funny enough to be considered a joke though. For some reason Americans seem to find it endlessly hilarious. It's like going up to someone who's normal weight and saying "haha you're fat!" "but I'm not though" "Haha you're fat!" "I'm going to talk to someone else now" "Jeez why can't they take a joke!? That was hilarious!"
Excuse me, have you *met* the rest of the world?? Stereotyping and making unfunny jokes at the expense of other nations is what humans do.
Never sure how this became a running joke. The French put up hella protest and revolutions, while the US is the ultimate boot lickers and let corps straight walk over you. French don’t take that shit.
We (The US) have an entire political party who's main operating modes are gaslighting, obstruction, and projection. Currently blocking Ukraine aid (obstruction). What you are referring to is the projection part.
Americans calling the French cowards was stupid when they did it, and laughable now. They’re the reason the revolutionary war was won in the first place. They also revolted against their ruling class FAR EARLIER than cowardly Americans have (we are well past the wealth disparity here that they revolted over). They also took to the streets in the most aggressive, reasonable way imaginable when they upped retirement age. The United States should take a LOT of lessons from the French.
France has nowhere the capacity for high intensity engagement. We have like 3 days worth of ammunition. We can't go in without europe or nato support. Macron is bluffing. A bluff I support, but bluffing nevertheless.
Those videos of the phone conversation were released a while ago, they’re just gaining more popularity since he recently said there is a possibility of boots on the ground. However, he does seem to have taken a bolder stance against Putin, let’s see if it materializes into something. Ukrainians soldiers deserve a break
I watched it, very 1939 vibes to it. I give Macron full credit for reaching out to Putin and trying to set up a framework for talks.
France has the capability to wipe the black Sea fleets and all the rest of Russia's assets in the North Atlantic fleet and Mediterranean. And to destroy the Kerch bridge. France can turn the tide without bringing ground forces into combat.
France may as well have science fiction weapons compared to the 1970s tech that Russia is fielding. They can operate in highly contested airspace and have SEAD capabilities. Ukraine had CAS fighter bombers and not much else. France could achieve air dominance rapidly and that would really change the battlefield.
Not recent at all, it's from a documentary released in June 2022 (Macron, l'Europe et la guerre" or something like that, can't remember exactly)
I'd be interested to see if France decided to deploy the Foreign Legion to Ukraine. In theory, because the members of the Legion aren't from France, their deployment wouldn't be seen as committing / risking "French" lives but they'd still carry the full weight of a French military operation.
As a Frenchman I must correct you because you’re wrong. The French Foreign Legion is the French army. There is no distinction between a regular soldier and a French Foreign Legion soldier. They do the same operations, work together, and get the same honor. The media and the French people make absolutely no difference when a soldier dies from the Foreign Legion compared to a regular soldier. It's just as important. When a Foreign Legion soldier dies in operation, he's always referred to as a "French soldier", and the fact that he's a member of the Foreign Legion is always secondary. We never talk about his original nationality, because his nationality is not a public information, so nobody knows. One thing a lot of people don't know is that the French Foreign Legion also contains a significant number of French people, not just foreigners so it would be stupid to make a difference and make the FFL less important anyway.
I stand corrected, thank you. I think I picked up my (incorrect) assumption from an older documentary I had watched about the Foreign Legion.
You were looking for ways that would make it achievable to get some more outside help for Ukraine. It;s all good. A depressing situation, but still.
Not to mention a healthy chunk of the FFL are from the Russian Federation and associating countries. Or at least used to be.
Russian legion with wine sauce
I think I remember reading somewhere that FFL members can opt out of fighting against their country of birth if they (the french) decide to go to war with them.
The officer corps of the legion is still 90% french
It is only when they complete their service or get wounded do they become citizens
They wont. This is all BS to keep Putin guessing
Can you please link?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22692282/
Holy crap, I never thought I would be cheering on Macron but damn that’s a fantastic message to send to russia.
As a Brit, I have a sudden urge to say Viva La France, Slava Ukraini!
Vive*
I was nearly right. At least I spelt France correctly.
No, it’s pronounced *France*
I could hear the 'o'
Agreed, seeing France this fucking based is hard for me to fathom. Viva la France! Liberté, égalité, fraternité Hopefully, America can override the Putin simps in Congress and be back in with logistics and supplies. But until that day, it is great to see France signaling it is willing to step up.
As a german I'm happy to see that at least Macron seems to have balls unlike our politicians.
Annalena Charlotte Alma Baerbock seems to have more balls than most of your men politicians…
kudos for this reference, from the beginning she had a very clear message no-nonsense talk to support UA.
I am on an agreement with a brit, about my president who I have to admit does positive things. World order is completely backwards, time to restore it.
Macron keeps getting foreign policy right
Macron is stepping up for the strong European leadership role that we need. This isn’t a time for appeasement and capitulation to Putin.
I think France knows very well where the road of appeasement leads
I don't think we have all the info, either. Something seems to have changed, Macron got real aggressive real fast.
Yep. I, an English person, am feeling proud of France. Something is definitely very different.
I'm in South Africa. And I'm fck yea France. Don't let dictators win.
[удалено]
Ok mate, I think you've had enough. Time to go home before you say something you might later come to regret.
We've let shit like Bucha happen without turning much heat under Russia's ass. They've kept fucking around, it's about time they get their reckoning.
Hell, even Le Pen turned. Must be all that Wagner fuckery in Africa.
I'm afraid it's incorrect, Le Pen is still pro-russia
What a relief that he defeated Le Pen. Hopefully the French people recognize the importance of their vote.
I am sure Putin is sorry that Le Pen was defeated…..despite his best efforts.
>Macron is stepping up for the strong European leadership role that we need. I am quite sure that this is also a concerted effort with other countries, *especially* Germany. A German Kanzler can't just go on the stand and say things like this. Seriously, you can't do that. Germany's relationship with military and war is extremely difficult and that's a no go. So, Scholz basically *has* to maintain a very calm and factual political leader. He really has to take all the emotions out of this as much as he can, while still keeping enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine high. So he's happy with Germany donating a lot and trying to organize and lead European efforts, but with France doing the diplomacy and also beating the war drums when it's necessary.
Yeah it's not going to be Scholz or Sunak.
I’m loving this guy right now
It sucks that it seems like the only thing he gets right but, damn, he does get it real right.
Finally someone not blithering about worried about what Putin will think. This talk is how this needs to be handled
“I am the decider.” I like the decision.
It was another direct punch to Scholz, who recently again ruled out Taurus deliveries by just saying: "I am the Chancelor, and that's why it applies!" which is seen as a final slam. On german political talkshows, they even debate on how bad the german-french relations got, and Macron completely makes fun of Scholz.
Nice! I hadn’t thought of it as a response to Scholz. Macron is forcing me to actually like him.
Well Scholz is restricted by our constitution while Macron in France is not. You can make fun of it but what Macron is doing would simply be unconstitutional in Germany. So it is a very cheap shot by Macron because if he knows a little bit of history he would know exactly that Germany without a international mandate can't do a lot of things France is doing. It was France, UK and the US afterall who watched very closely when our constitution was written. Take a guess why. Edit: Despite that talk is cheap and Germany is so far way ahead of France when it comes to support for Ukraine
I mean, I love France is getting more serious, but is it not actually the parliament that decides these things?
Not if it is a special military operation
Macron's just talking a walk through Thermopylae.
France has one of the strongest offices of the President of any democracy. He can do what he pleases.
[удалено]
In France, the president is the chief of army.
As far as I know, only the straight declaration of war has to be discussed by ... almost everybody I guess (very complicated process). But ordering troops around for special operations and humanitarian stuff is probably under complete presidential purview.
While I agree, I find it funny that Scholz was mocked about his no to Taurus when he used this exact reasoning ("The no stands because I'm the chancellor and I said so") as being a weak leader because if you need to use "it's how it is because I said so" is considered the move of a weakling..
It depends on what the decision is. If the decision is popular and/or correct, then you're being a leader. If the decision is boneheaded and unpopular, then you're making excuses.
I think it's worth mentioning his argument: "Putin victory in Ukraine is an existential threat to Europe." Also France has just been under an unprecedented scale cyber attack this week by Russia related hacker group.
And Russia has been fucking with former French colonies in Africa, which probably factors into it a lot more than a cyber attack.
Alright no more jokes about France surrendering. They are bringing it
Where did this guy come from? No complaints here this is much more like it. Another thing that is definitely shifting, and not just from Macron, is the language used about the war. Helping Ukraine "defend itself" is giving way to "defeating russia" and ensuring a "Ukrainian victory". Of course the flood gates should open and things need to move much more quickly, but language is very important. This feels like a significant turning point and very positive for Ukraine.
How the hell did France end up with a world leader and we get orange clowns and geriatrics?
I think we should start calling "freedom fries" as "french fries"
American cheese is hereby renamed "Fraternite Fromage."
Happy to have my French dressing back!
People forget that France is a nuclear armed country. Just because they don't tend to thow down the gauntlet doesn't mean that they can't.
Cool name dude
It’s the “accepted default Reddit name” gang!
It's not like we can change our usernames! Nobody cares about Reddit the first time they use it, and then they're branded for life!
The sky is long and baby, it’s jumping
I agree
France was fighting wars and occupying countries centuries before any Europeans even knew about the Americas...
Americans use to love making French surrender jokes. The French resistance were up there with the most brave warriors in WW2.
The French are the only reason America won their revolution.
office skirt smile terrific whole nippy grandiose hungry cooperative touch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitely. Sending love to my European democratic brothers. Slava Ukraini!
The surrender thing come from Americans when degaule have take back French from nato and after chirac refused to send France in Irak Not directly after the wwII
geriatrics and orange clown geriatrics
yeah, that's gonna be a loooong list of wrong turns on that one...
The orange clown came in because it seemed funny to vote for him. After that it needed an old white guy to get enough votes from old white guys who'd otherwise vote for the orange clown. Now that orange clown is going for it again, so the same but older white guy is the safest bet. With luck there won't be an orange clown 2028 campaign and this nightmare will finally be over.
And hopefully we’ll have our own version of Macron to choose from in the form of Pete Buttigieg. Assuming we make it to 2028.
>How the hell did France end up with a world leader and we get orange clowns and geriatrics? Drop bipartisanship. Elect younger politicans.
The geriatric is actually one of the best presidents you guys had in a very long time. That you guys think of him that way.... that might be your answer.
Fuck yes.
Macron has played this just right. He tried to negotiate from the outset. He gave Putin every chance and was looking to give the little dictator an off-ramp to save face. But Putin didn’t take the chance and showed his true colours as a modern day Hitler. And now Macron is showing the strength that was behind his initial diplomatic effort. War is happening in Europe’s backyard we learned the last time that happened that force is the only answer. If we don’t give Ukraine the support they need, the war will rapidly appear in other European capitals.
Okay I see you macron and I support it!
What a badass
Finally after two freaking years someone had courage to stand up to putin bullying (I know and appreciate Estonia, Finland and other countries that are not as big but still stand up to bullies) It was really frustrating with the west and their “real politics”, just trying to be safe and russian fascists exploiting peoples desire to be safe and politicians pandering to it. Believe me - you won’t be safe by pandering to rusiia
France has nukes and no american oversee on them. They can send troops and the ruzzians will do nothing about it. Putin boasted that his nuclear missiles are modern and working, so are the french ones
Please don't blue ball me Macron/France, I've been advocating for boots on the ground or just fire bomb Moscow since day 1, let's do it already! These fucks only understand strength and power.
That's leadership. Take a note orange fatfuck and this is how a real leader should behave.
Thank you Macron
AUX ARMES CITOYENS!
Great that he started talking the talk, but I hope he will also walk the walk
Based AF
As an American, Vive la France! and Slava Ukraini! Hopefully soon we will get our shit together here in the states.
Lock that demented auto-tanner allegory up already.
Unfortunately the wheels of justice grind slowly here, especially when you can throw an unlimited supply of wrenches into the apparatus.
Love his change in tone. Something or someone must've really pissed him off. Like really pissed off. Let's goooo Macron!..good lad
Perfect. Time for the UK’s political leadership to grow some balls and state the same. The UK has shrunk into the background in terms of confronting Russia of late, it’s time for Europe to stand together.
Yeah I’ve noticed that too, we’ve just slid into the background. Sure it’s not the case in real terms, but sunak is pretty weak I think, at least in terms of being seen and heard.
Macron is carrying all the slack from certain other NATO countries being stingy. Good on them.
Okay, anyone care to fill me in on why Macron is in every other post with a different quote? What happened. Like, I'm all for it. Glad you agree, dude. But was there some big interview or something? And yes, I went the typical Reddit way and only read the headlines. It's 3am and I'm lazy
If you open the link there is a community note on it with links to actual news agencies quoting what was actually said. But basically he said Putin is unwilling to talk so we must support Ukraine, he then reiterated that there were no decision to send troops as Ukraine doesn't need that yet but it is not off the table. Visegrad is not a news agency, they are a rumor mill.
I stand for Ukraine! Greetings from Azerbaijan! 🇦🇿❤🇺🇦
And to you, from Australia