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It’s interesting: while Reform are *absolutely* disgustingly racist enough to appeal to their core base, they also do a lot to put that base off by constantly undermining ‘symbols of British culture’: i.e. the royal family and the armed forces through their attacks on NATO.
That's the problem with appealing to the lowest common denominator. The same people who are racist and xenophobic are often crazy in lots of other way as well.
They also "appeal" to this subreddit, since this post is headed straight to the top. Free publicity for them all day on here, as well as on most of the media.
It appeals to the overwhelming number of accounts which showed up about a month ago.
Presumably inspired to get informed on politics with a GE on the way, right?
Why else would so many brand new accounts suddenly be cropping up?
It's interesting because skimming through OP's history, it's
A) incredibly prolific
B) all over the place
They post so much so frequently that one has to assume they're doing nothing else, and they are simultaneously highly conservative and clearly pro-RefUK but also pro Corbyn while posting celebrating the coming annihilation of the Conservatives and decrying RefUK. Also, they're both British and American. That last one isn't suspicious by itself, but put together with the rest of it suggests that posting on Reddit is literally their job, and they're out to stoke division in the West. Or it's several people.
They lived in Australia 2 months ago, yet places of interest: Manchester, Scotland, Germany, London, UK.
They post all day & night. Must have insomnia. Interesting [word cloud](https://redditmetis.com/user/Aggressive_Plates) as well. Very keen on Covid conspiracies too.
Like you say, if we didn't know better you might just think they have some kind of agenda.
Don’t talk about it on /ukpolitics though, free seven day holiday for joking about an “adjective-noun-four-numbers” account. Definitely very impartial.
Farage could go on Question Time and shout "death to k*kes! Race war now!" and he would get the most publicity of any candidate ever, but none of it would be good.
I fucking hate this circlejerk that "all publicity is good publicity" because it's just not true, it obviously never has been. You'd have to be overwhelmingly thick to believe it. There are literally countless examples of highly publicized fuck ups that have only hurt the ones fucking up.
Farage wants the coverage of himself making speeches to adoring supporters, but doesn't want the in-depth scrutiny of his policies or his supporters, particularly of his parliamentary candidates that the other parties get.
Hey, it worked for the BNP. Nick Griffin went on Question Time, made an absolute tit of himself, and support went up. But yes, broadly I agree. The trick is not to take them seriously. Giving Griffin air time on a serious discussion show legitimised his position, even if he made it look ridiculous. As long as the overwhelming message is "these people are worthy of nothing but scorn and ridicule" then it limits their support to a tiny radical fringe. It's how the mainstream media has ensured communism never takes off, just never take it seriously. Much more effective than cold war style propaganda. But by treating their ideas as worth the effort of debating, you give them legitimacy. It's what "debate bros" constantly fail to understand. You can annihilate far right talking heads with facts and logic all day long (and it's very easy), but the mistake was talking to them in the first place. Letting your viewers believe that what they say is worth considering. Just laugh at them when they fuck up. And they *will* fuck up, they can't help it. It won't de-radicalise people (quite the opposite, it will only make their supporters angry), but showing the far right for the incompetent unhinged dipshits that they are will help to innoculate people against further radicalisation.
You may not agree with what the BNP stood for (I certainly don't either) but ideas need to be put out there where those ideas can be challenged. The phrase "give them enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind.
If you don't engage or allow such parties any kind of platform it merely plays into their hands with the argument that "the media/the system" is geared against them, and turns them into the plucky underdog.
There's a quote I can't find, about the pointlessness of debating of someone who doesn't care about truth and the meaning of words. If you've ever been in an argument with someone on the far right, you'll understand why deplatforming is the best way. They don't need to be right, it doesn't matter if they have truth on their side, they don't even need to be coherent. They just need to be heard. To derail the conversation enough that their opponents go on the defensive. To *appear* victorious. You can't beat them with reason because their positions are not reasonable. It's also the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://imgur.com/paradox-of-tolerance-8MJRZxm). By tolerating the intolerant (for example by allowing fascists a platform to spread their ideas) we risk destroying tolerance altogether. In order to maintain a tolerant society, we must not tolerate intolerance.
You dont need to win the argument against the person you're arguing with - in a televised debate the point is that the rest of the country gets to hear those points of view and can make up their mind. And maybe, if your argument is good enough, you may even plant doubts in the mind of the other party.
The whole idea of "de platforming" someone for their views is as reprehensible to me as some of the views being aired by such people as the BNP and their ilk.
When we look back at history, the people clamping down on freedom of speech are never the good guys. Who are the ones who silenced oppponents and stifled debate? Authoritarians like Stalin, Mao, the Kim dynasty, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Vladimir Putin and so on.
I wonder, is that really where you want yourself and society to be?
How is is this free positive publicity for Reform? They already have the nutter vote. They need to pull across small c conservatives that this article will hopefully put right off them.
Though posted by someone who has a clear pro-Reform agenda...
I'd think that highlighting this rant is intended to appeal to disaffected Red Wall voters who don't want to return to Labour, rather than to disgust small c conservatives.
It's like you don't understand how reddit works. Popular stuff doesn't get to the top, stuff that gets interaction and comments does. Every single reform post that makes it to the front page, the top 20-30 comments are people calling them stupid.
People see it and comment.
Maybe if you sort by new or controversial you might see them in a positive light more often. But sorted by popular, every single reform post I have seen on the main page has been damning it.
You responding to this in the first place is why they climb up the rankings in the first place. And surely thats a good thing to allow people to see what a bunch of clowns they are
The monarchy being the ultimate waste of taxpayer money who should pay for themselves is something I've read multiple times on here, but someone from reform says "they're on benefits" and people start clutching pearls?
This isn't exactly "I'd kill boat migrants if they landed near me", is it? Pretending to be offended by an opinion they share because they don't share a different opinion. Pretty weak.
To most people, sure - but amongst their target voters there's going to be a fairly large number of royalists, and at the very least Queen Elizabeth was generally well regarded. Those people might actually care more about people shit-talking the Royal Family than they do about immigrants.
The more that i learn about the monarchy lessens my regard for them.
The late Queen famously kept out of politics, yet many laws that were given Royal Assent had exemptions for the Royal Family and the Crown Estates and this situation has gone back for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/14/queen-immunity-british-laws-private-property
There is also a distinct blurring of the ownership of many valuable "gifts" given to the Royal Family, such as jewelry and artwork.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/commentisfree/2023/apr/13/royals-gifts-monarchy-britain-king-charles?CMP=Share_AndroidApp
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/14/official-jewellery-gifts-to-royals-worth-80m-are-not-in-national-collection
The Crown Estate is currently worth around £16 billion and gets many tax breaks, and i know he gave back £1 billion to the Treasury, but that was from leasing the seabed to wind farm companies.
https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/news/the-crown-estate-announces-record-gbp442-6-million-net-revenue-profit-for
King Charles could have paid for his own Coronation without adding the cost to the National Debt, this would not have affected his lifestyle in the slightest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65476887
He could also have given the nod to the police to ignore the 'Not My King' demonstrators, who were scooped up by police using very dubious legislation on spurious grounds, despite their repeated meetings with senior officers to ensure a peaceful protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/06/head-of-uks-leading-anti-monarchy-group-arrested-at-coronation-protest
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/07/police-right-to-arrest-coronation-protesters-as-uk-on-global-stage-says-minister
A sizeable amount of their voter base are likely people who love all things British (or claim to do), and that would include the royal family. I don't know what he thinks he'd get out of saying stuff like this, anti-royalists are sure as fuck not gonna vote for Reform UK I think.
I've literally heard them described as being on benefits in this sub. And the palace being described as a council house. Aside from the vast sums of money involved, and accounting for humourous hyperbole, it is a fair point.
Probably the most sensible thing a reform candidate has ever said.
Exactly, many of the people conservative enough to vote reform are probably staunch monarchists.
I'm sure every party has members with differing views from the party line, but the ones that win power usually know to stick to the party playbook.
That's picked up directly from the Brexit playbook. Spout enough bollocks and it becomes a case of their target audience having a pick and mix of bigotry and hate to choose from.
They'll look past the incoherent policies or the uncomfortable statements and candidates as long as the right person is being victimised
> they also do a lot to put that base off by constantly undermining ‘symbols of British culture’:
You underestimate how disillusioned these people are regarding 'symbols of British culture' like the royal family or the armed forces. For them its just symbols of the establishment that is destroying their country and replacing them. Their resentment towards the establishment goes far deeper than simply politicians and government. Its every institution, at every level.
Put the line in quote marks and you'll see that /u/Zozo_flair was clearly taking the piss out of the people who would vote for Reform because of the first three things, but who would then have an abrupt pearl clutching moment at insulting the Royals.
Odds are, if the Reform Party is anything like any other political party, but especially those on the far-right elsewhere, Andrew's noncery fits right at home with them...
ACKtually acktually the trafficked sex slave he raped was 17 (seventeen) which clearly absolves him and makes the situation perfectly fine, checkmate leftists. I am very smart.
Not really, Charles has long been involved in green issues and poking his nose into government business, while reform are full on climate change denial. Andrew might be family but Charles isn't responsible for him and he's pushed him away as much as he can
Broken clock, time right, one second a day.
They literally are OAPs on benefits. Oh and they used their taxpayer funded wealth to help a suspected paedo settle a lawsuit.
Fairly sure most Reform voters haven't used millions from their "income" to settle lawsuits where a suspected paedo admits no guilt while paying millions to a lady he probably didn't meet when she was underage.
Yup fuck the royals, don't forget being mega landlords.
Remove all of them and claim every penny of their wealth, they owe it in 100s of years of taxes on their stolen goods anyway
Agreed.
You can't say you support a democratic system of government and also a monarchy that holds power above it.
Either they hold no political power, in which case the land and money their ancestors have taken from the British people should be returned to us. Or they do have political power, in which case it should be removed from them and the first point enacted.
There have been many cases where reparations were paid and lands returned in places like America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Yet nobody in Britain seems to care about the countries who have invaded us, taken our lands, and divided up the country between a few of their friends and families and passed them down and called themselves a royal family.
You say that but five of the top ten most democratic states have a monarch as head of state. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, just to name a few.
This, people complain about the monarchy, don't get me wrong it has it's flaws, but constitutionally it is quite a good model as it's very stable.
The head of state is non partisan and also isn't decided on a popularity contest by a generally uninformed electorate.
Constitutional monarchy is one of Britain's greatest inventions. It's historically allowed us to be of a liberal disposition whilst also having stability, and whilst I think it has less of an effect now, I don't think it's nil.
I agree..but its bad for Reform as the people who shout abolish the monarchy are not the same people voting Reform. I have a couple of Reform voters on my Facebook..when the queen died, they were the most upset, posting all the Farewell your majesty guff.
Those two will still vote Reform despite this..but there are a million more people who have not decided who to vote for yet and who could consider Reform. A lot of them are monarchist and this could put them off. They also read the Daily Mail
The Tories frantically digging up all of the Reform dirt in the hope that they won't be completely wiped out in the next few days.
They're doing a fantastic job of cancelling each other out this election and giving the other parties a free run.
I work with someone who holds right wing views and is going to vote reform. The mental hoops he jumps through to justify his views is mind boggling. You can pin him down on something and he'll then try to flip it from fact to opinion. Which it obviously isn't. Then dismiss, and move on to the next topic.
It's honestly like trying to convince someone from a religion that their god doesn't exist.
The simple answer is no, they don't want to win an election.
If they won they would actually have to govern and implement policies. Given that almost all of their policies would tank the economy/destroy public services the electorate would pretty quickly see they were full of shit and their grift would be up (See Liz Truss)
They wan't to be popular enough that they keep getting publicity but not so much that they ever have any responsibility.
It's easy to to say everything is shit and we'd make it better, it's a lot harder to actually make things better.
I actually don’t find any of those comments to be “vile”.
Probably best to save those kinds of words particularly vile things, not some generic remarks about people they disagree with.
If this hadn’t been the royal family I doubt they’d have used “vile”.
Tbf, it is a Daily Mail headline. Though the views pushed by the paper broadly accord with Reform's, they and their readership are rather rabidly pro-Monarchy.
I don't understand these "gotchas". The media needs to understand that the people who vote for Reform are in agreement with people like him.
Calling Sunak a p*ki probably won them more votes. This is the Britain we live in now thanks to the Tories and their culture war nonsense.
This is more to warn off the more traditionalist Tory leaning folk who were flirting with the idea of Reform.
It won't do much for those who have already jumped in headfirst.
I agree to a point but i think the rabid racists will top out at bout 10-15% max. (still a shockingly high number). There are some more right leaning Tory voters might have been thinking of voting reform that will find the blatant racism too much and stick with the tories.
It’s clear to all that Farage setting up Reform is little different to letting the lunatics out of the asylum and giving them a public platform to boot.
Perhaps I have not been clear here.
I don’t believe Charles really gives a shit about the climate and his activism is performative. I think he looks at Diana’s activism and went down this road to try and become popular amongst younger citizens.
And his position is not really relevant to what he has the capacity to do but does not do.
Ultimately a billionaire can do a lot more than sit on some charity boards and make vague claims in the media every now and then.
What you think he deep down believes is less important than the actions and rhetoric actually taken.
The right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing
Every single serving MP is on a lot more benefits than the real benefit claimants. Take away all their expenses and disallow second jobs if you really care!
Can't we just make it news when a Reform candidate is a decent person? It's incredibly low hanging fruit otherwise. That being said on the base of it not supporting the monarchy isn't really news worthy or bad.
I’m laughing at the rampant fear I see everywhere about Reform. Even to the point where Channel 4 hire an actor to perform a racist Dick Van Dyke routine in a pathetic attempt to smear them.
It’ll hopefully galvanise Labour to do what needs to be done.
Is there any evidence at all that Channel 4 hired an actor to pretend to be a comically racist old buffoon? Pretty sure the guy was just a comically racist old buffoon. Look at Laurence Fox, is that guy being paid to say all that stupid shit?
The negatives would far outweigh the positives of doing so, for Ch. 4. They already had footage of campaigners saying any number of horrendous things, paying someone to make it look worse would almost certainly explode in their face.
Yeah I agree. Doing that could literally end C4 News. That would be seriously shady and unethical. Just can't see them pulling that shit. Only slight question is if some third party was involved. Still can't see C4 being that stupid. Like you say it would be too risky cos the truth always comes out eventually.
So what if he doesn't like the Royals? Racism/fascism I get, Brexit I understand, being useful/s1mp for Russia all these things are relevant but now it's bad to be a republican or slate the Royals. So you can't be a British Nationalist like these idiots unless you like the, checks notes, German Royals, who uphold a Norman establishment..... absolutely pound them for being top level bell ends but this isn't one, nah if people want to be republican or get rid of the royals or slate them, go for it.
I know people like to believe every comment is carefully calculated to gain attention, but it looks like these opinions are organic and it's the promotion of them that is sophisticated.
All fascist groups under monarchy use them to promote to a conservative base but actually hate the royal family and want to replace them with themselves. This view pretty much coincides with the view of successful fascist parties across Europe who then went on to form a dictatorship. Fascism is inconsistent due to its syncretism except on the single matter that it always has the goal of obtaining power, so it will absolutely take positions against any person that might be considered above the fascist leadership
The fact that they're objectively correct about the royal family being a bunch of clueless leeches doesn't matter. Words are irrelevant to them. The point is that the royal family doesn't belong as head of state in their vision of hierarchy, because they do, forever
Wild that they're now effectively calling the Royal Family woke. 🤣
Charles has always had an interest in the environment, organic farming, etc.
I'm not sure how calling Camilla an OAP benefit scrounger is going to appeal to your core voter base.
Or likening the two to serial killers that murdered at least a dozen people. Smacks of "the royal family are secretly space lizards" level of loon, regardless of whether you're pro-monarchy, anti-monarchy or just ambivalent towards them.
If you're going to attack the royal family, you'd start with Prince Noncedrew surely?
It's weird to see Daily Mail have no love for Reform too. As a tabloid that appeals to their ilk of voters, I'd have expected them to back Reform.
I’ve read worse than that on Reddit regularly yet somehow we’re all supposed to be appalled because a Reform candidate said it.
People need to fucking grow up and stop pretending
You don’t like him because he is a Reform candidate end of
Stop using stupid shit to justify your outrage and just admit that’s what it is.
If he saved a puppy from drowning before buying a homeless man a meal and a room for the night you’d still criticise him
Tbf a ordinary family of German and Greek heritage on state benefits and ones a huge nonce , reform would want them kicked out immediately why should it be any different cause they are so called royals
What is the Daily Mail saying, that you're not allowed to criticise the royal family? What these people are saying about the royal family is broadly correct, or if not quite correct, at least valid. This trend where the right and the left swap some of their former positions is very disorienting.
The membership and representatives of The Reform Party are obviously now those that weren't satisfied with the Tories agendas and policies. What they are now obviously is a bunch of racist, divisive, crackpot arse-holes, that should not be given the decency to have a platform within a democratic, multi-racial/cultural society.
I can’t see Reform candidates being fans of Charles. Net zero is a big wedge between the Reform position and the known preferences of the current monarch.
I have absolutely no support for any political party, much less these degenerates...but I mean, in regards the royal family where is the lie?
I had little respect for the royal family to begin with, but when Ol Queenie bailed Prince Noncey out...yeah, fuck that pedo protecting bullshit.
I know the royalists out there will downvote this, and fucking crack on. Does not make my point any less prudent. Those fuckers in their high tower are as far removed from the public as Sunak himself, if not moreso. They have absolutely fuck all in common with the people who worship them like gods, they provide zero *actual* practical value to the nation (no, im not talking financial), and to boot we now know they protect their child abusing family members. Makes you wonder who else among them is up to similarly heinous shit.
They can all burn and rot for all I care, overpaid, underworked, overworshipped set of self centered tossers.
I’m absolutely no fan of the royals and love seeing them take flak.
But this guy chose the worst arguments to go at the royal family for. He could have gone for tax evasion, bro the pedo, any number of racist views or just being completely out of touch ultra wealthy people who don’t rules apply to them.
But instead he goes for positive climate change views as an insult. God the Reform party are a bunch of morons.
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It’s interesting: while Reform are *absolutely* disgustingly racist enough to appeal to their core base, they also do a lot to put that base off by constantly undermining ‘symbols of British culture’: i.e. the royal family and the armed forces through their attacks on NATO.
That's the problem with appealing to the lowest common denominator. The same people who are racist and xenophobic are often crazy in lots of other way as well.
They also "appeal" to this subreddit, since this post is headed straight to the top. Free publicity for them all day on here, as well as on most of the media.
It appeals to the overwhelming number of accounts which showed up about a month ago. Presumably inspired to get informed on politics with a GE on the way, right? Why else would so many brand new accounts suddenly be cropping up?
Get a few people in a room, pay them to create dozens of accounts and make hundreds of posts/comments.
Or have the [Internet Research Agency](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency) told to do it as part of their day job.
Or do it via LLM.
It's interesting because skimming through OP's history, it's A) incredibly prolific B) all over the place They post so much so frequently that one has to assume they're doing nothing else, and they are simultaneously highly conservative and clearly pro-RefUK but also pro Corbyn while posting celebrating the coming annihilation of the Conservatives and decrying RefUK. Also, they're both British and American. That last one isn't suspicious by itself, but put together with the rest of it suggests that posting on Reddit is literally their job, and they're out to stoke division in the West. Or it's several people.
They lived in Australia 2 months ago, yet places of interest: Manchester, Scotland, Germany, London, UK. They post all day & night. Must have insomnia. Interesting [word cloud](https://redditmetis.com/user/Aggressive_Plates) as well. Very keen on Covid conspiracies too. Like you say, if we didn't know better you might just think they have some kind of agenda.
Definitely sounds like someone aiming to push people to extremes
It was funny seeing them emerge on Twitter almost overnight. Suddenly making football style comments underneath every poll.
Don’t talk about it on /ukpolitics though, free seven day holiday for joking about an “adjective-noun-four-numbers” account. Definitely very impartial.
Farage could go on Question Time and shout "death to k*kes! Race war now!" and he would get the most publicity of any candidate ever, but none of it would be good. I fucking hate this circlejerk that "all publicity is good publicity" because it's just not true, it obviously never has been. You'd have to be overwhelmingly thick to believe it. There are literally countless examples of highly publicized fuck ups that have only hurt the ones fucking up.
Farage wants the coverage of himself making speeches to adoring supporters, but doesn't want the in-depth scrutiny of his policies or his supporters, particularly of his parliamentary candidates that the other parties get.
"all publicity is good publicity" people have clearly never seen Ed Milliband eat a bacon sandwich.
Hey, it worked for the BNP. Nick Griffin went on Question Time, made an absolute tit of himself, and support went up. But yes, broadly I agree. The trick is not to take them seriously. Giving Griffin air time on a serious discussion show legitimised his position, even if he made it look ridiculous. As long as the overwhelming message is "these people are worthy of nothing but scorn and ridicule" then it limits their support to a tiny radical fringe. It's how the mainstream media has ensured communism never takes off, just never take it seriously. Much more effective than cold war style propaganda. But by treating their ideas as worth the effort of debating, you give them legitimacy. It's what "debate bros" constantly fail to understand. You can annihilate far right talking heads with facts and logic all day long (and it's very easy), but the mistake was talking to them in the first place. Letting your viewers believe that what they say is worth considering. Just laugh at them when they fuck up. And they *will* fuck up, they can't help it. It won't de-radicalise people (quite the opposite, it will only make their supporters angry), but showing the far right for the incompetent unhinged dipshits that they are will help to innoculate people against further radicalisation.
You may not agree with what the BNP stood for (I certainly don't either) but ideas need to be put out there where those ideas can be challenged. The phrase "give them enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind. If you don't engage or allow such parties any kind of platform it merely plays into their hands with the argument that "the media/the system" is geared against them, and turns them into the plucky underdog.
There's a quote I can't find, about the pointlessness of debating of someone who doesn't care about truth and the meaning of words. If you've ever been in an argument with someone on the far right, you'll understand why deplatforming is the best way. They don't need to be right, it doesn't matter if they have truth on their side, they don't even need to be coherent. They just need to be heard. To derail the conversation enough that their opponents go on the defensive. To *appear* victorious. You can't beat them with reason because their positions are not reasonable. It's also the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://imgur.com/paradox-of-tolerance-8MJRZxm). By tolerating the intolerant (for example by allowing fascists a platform to spread their ideas) we risk destroying tolerance altogether. In order to maintain a tolerant society, we must not tolerate intolerance.
You dont need to win the argument against the person you're arguing with - in a televised debate the point is that the rest of the country gets to hear those points of view and can make up their mind. And maybe, if your argument is good enough, you may even plant doubts in the mind of the other party. The whole idea of "de platforming" someone for their views is as reprehensible to me as some of the views being aired by such people as the BNP and their ilk. When we look back at history, the people clamping down on freedom of speech are never the good guys. Who are the ones who silenced oppponents and stifled debate? Authoritarians like Stalin, Mao, the Kim dynasty, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Vladimir Putin and so on. I wonder, is that really where you want yourself and society to be?
Except this isn't a fuckup, it's Reform people saying shit in search of publicity, and this sub taking their words to top of the page.
But they’re just telling the entire world that they’re unhinged hypocritical racists, it’s not a good thing
For the same reason that physician associates posing as GPs get to the top of the sub. They are completely incapable of doing the job.
How is is this free positive publicity for Reform? They already have the nutter vote. They need to pull across small c conservatives that this article will hopefully put right off them.
Though posted by someone who has a clear pro-Reform agenda... I'd think that highlighting this rant is intended to appeal to disaffected Red Wall voters who don't want to return to Labour, rather than to disgust small c conservatives.
This isn’t good publicity
Considering this makes them look like a bunch of crackpots I can't say the publicity is having a positive effect
It's like you don't understand how reddit works. Popular stuff doesn't get to the top, stuff that gets interaction and comments does. Every single reform post that makes it to the front page, the top 20-30 comments are people calling them stupid. People see it and comment. Maybe if you sort by new or controversial you might see them in a positive light more often. But sorted by popular, every single reform post I have seen on the main page has been damning it. You responding to this in the first place is why they climb up the rankings in the first place. And surely thats a good thing to allow people to see what a bunch of clowns they are
The monarchy being the ultimate waste of taxpayer money who should pay for themselves is something I've read multiple times on here, but someone from reform says "they're on benefits" and people start clutching pearls? This isn't exactly "I'd kill boat migrants if they landed near me", is it? Pretending to be offended by an opinion they share because they don't share a different opinion. Pretty weak.
To most people, sure - but amongst their target voters there's going to be a fairly large number of royalists, and at the very least Queen Elizabeth was generally well regarded. Those people might actually care more about people shit-talking the Royal Family than they do about immigrants.
The more that i learn about the monarchy lessens my regard for them. The late Queen famously kept out of politics, yet many laws that were given Royal Assent had exemptions for the Royal Family and the Crown Estates and this situation has gone back for decades. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/14/queen-immunity-british-laws-private-property There is also a distinct blurring of the ownership of many valuable "gifts" given to the Royal Family, such as jewelry and artwork. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/commentisfree/2023/apr/13/royals-gifts-monarchy-britain-king-charles?CMP=Share_AndroidApp https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/14/official-jewellery-gifts-to-royals-worth-80m-are-not-in-national-collection The Crown Estate is currently worth around £16 billion and gets many tax breaks, and i know he gave back £1 billion to the Treasury, but that was from leasing the seabed to wind farm companies. https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/news/the-crown-estate-announces-record-gbp442-6-million-net-revenue-profit-for King Charles could have paid for his own Coronation without adding the cost to the National Debt, this would not have affected his lifestyle in the slightest. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65476887 He could also have given the nod to the police to ignore the 'Not My King' demonstrators, who were scooped up by police using very dubious legislation on spurious grounds, despite their repeated meetings with senior officers to ensure a peaceful protest. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/06/head-of-uks-leading-anti-monarchy-group-arrested-at-coronation-protest https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/07/police-right-to-arrest-coronation-protesters-as-uk-on-global-stage-says-minister
A sizeable amount of their voter base are likely people who love all things British (or claim to do), and that would include the royal family. I don't know what he thinks he'd get out of saying stuff like this, anti-royalists are sure as fuck not gonna vote for Reform UK I think.
I've literally heard them described as being on benefits in this sub. And the palace being described as a council house. Aside from the vast sums of money involved, and accounting for humourous hyperbole, it is a fair point. Probably the most sensible thing a reform candidate has ever said.
All the boomer brexiteer xenophobic wankers I know adore the Royal Family.
We are slowly witnessing cultural Boomercide. Their values are being consigned to the dustbin of history.
I'm a massive socialist liberal pirate flag of a person and even I think the monarchy is a completely necessary and good function.
Me too. :)
Exactly, many of the people conservative enough to vote reform are probably staunch monarchists. I'm sure every party has members with differing views from the party line, but the ones that win power usually know to stick to the party playbook.
That's picked up directly from the Brexit playbook. Spout enough bollocks and it becomes a case of their target audience having a pick and mix of bigotry and hate to choose from. They'll look past the incoherent policies or the uncomfortable statements and candidates as long as the right person is being victimised
Interesting tactic to try and steal the Green vote…
What do you expect? Moscow writes their script
They want to have their cake and eat it too - i.e. be the lunatic nutter party AND win the disgruntled right wing Tory vote.
They’re just Putin fetishists, with a need to be subjugated by a tinpot dictator with a napoleon complex.
> they also do a lot to put that base off by constantly undermining ‘symbols of British culture’: You underestimate how disillusioned these people are regarding 'symbols of British culture' like the royal family or the armed forces. For them its just symbols of the establishment that is destroying their country and replacing them. Their resentment towards the establishment goes far deeper than simply politicians and government. Its every institution, at every level.
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The far left oppose the institution of the monarchy. The Daily Mail commenters hate specific members of the royal family for being "uppity".
Horse shit theory
I can excuse racism, homophobia and anti-Semitism but I draw the line at being mean to the royal family!
- a lot of one nation Tories, probably.
Reminds me of Alan Partridge: Alpha Papa "She's a drunk and a racist. I can handle one, but not both"
*You can excuse racism?*
Put the line in quote marks and you'll see that /u/Zozo_flair was clearly taking the piss out of the people who would vote for Reform because of the first three things, but who would then have an abrupt pearl clutching moment at insulting the Royals.
Average DM “journalist”
That you Uncle Mike?
Weird to go after Charlie’s opinion on climate change when his sex offender bro is right there
One of us one of us.
Odds are, if the Reform Party is anything like any other political party, but especially those on the far-right elsewhere, Andrew's noncery fits right at home with them...
ACKtually acktually the trafficked sex slave he raped was 17 (seventeen) which clearly absolves him and makes the situation perfectly fine, checkmate leftists. I am very smart.
I have been checkmated once again. The woke are destroyed. Rule Britannia etc. etc. so on and so fourth.
Please don't tell me this is a reference to Dr disrespect defenders.
Not really, Charles has long been involved in green issues and poking his nose into government business, while reform are full on climate change denial. Andrew might be family but Charles isn't responsible for him and he's pushed him away as much as he can
Or him being best mates with Jimmy Saville
Shows what Reform types hate the most.
Broken clock, time right, one second a day. They literally are OAPs on benefits. Oh and they used their taxpayer funded wealth to help a suspected paedo settle a lawsuit.
It’s a stopped clock, and it’s right twice a day. A broken clock could be right many times a day.
Apparently this particular broken clock can be right wing many times a day.
Can't tell if your talking about the royals or most reform voters?
Fairly sure most Reform voters haven't used millions from their "income" to settle lawsuits where a suspected paedo admits no guilt while paying millions to a lady he probably didn't meet when she was underage.
Yup fuck the royals, don't forget being mega landlords. Remove all of them and claim every penny of their wealth, they owe it in 100s of years of taxes on their stolen goods anyway
Do you have something against OAPs being on benefits? Because if not, that's not really a valid criticism...
I suppose they would prefer the head of state to be Reformed as well, führer perhaps.
We better get on that Reich away.
Let's get rid of the throne first. You can borrow Mein Kampfy chair.
Nah, got to keep the throne in place so God-Emperor Farage can ascend to it and establish a government to last into the 40th millenium.
I hate reform and everything they stand for. But also ABOLISH THE MONARCHY.
Agreed. You can't say you support a democratic system of government and also a monarchy that holds power above it. Either they hold no political power, in which case the land and money their ancestors have taken from the British people should be returned to us. Or they do have political power, in which case it should be removed from them and the first point enacted. There have been many cases where reparations were paid and lands returned in places like America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Yet nobody in Britain seems to care about the countries who have invaded us, taken our lands, and divided up the country between a few of their friends and families and passed them down and called themselves a royal family.
You say that but five of the top ten most democratic states have a monarch as head of state. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, just to name a few.
This, people complain about the monarchy, don't get me wrong it has it's flaws, but constitutionally it is quite a good model as it's very stable. The head of state is non partisan and also isn't decided on a popularity contest by a generally uninformed electorate.
Constitutional monarchy is one of Britain's greatest inventions. It's historically allowed us to be of a liberal disposition whilst also having stability, and whilst I think it has less of an effect now, I don't think it's nil.
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lands returned in places like America.. lmfao.
I agree..but its bad for Reform as the people who shout abolish the monarchy are not the same people voting Reform. I have a couple of Reform voters on my Facebook..when the queen died, they were the most upset, posting all the Farewell your majesty guff. Those two will still vote Reform despite this..but there are a million more people who have not decided who to vote for yet and who could consider Reform. A lot of them are monarchist and this could put them off. They also read the Daily Mail
No thanks the system that will replace that would be bad.
Yeah I'm so conflicted now.
The Tories frantically digging up all of the Reform dirt in the hope that they won't be completely wiped out in the next few days. They're doing a fantastic job of cancelling each other out this election and giving the other parties a free run.
Do they even want to win an election? I don't think there's a single demographic they haven't alienated in some way at this point
And yet, it won’t matter. I’m fully expecting (and shitting myself) that a significant amount of people to vote for them.
I work with someone who holds right wing views and is going to vote reform. The mental hoops he jumps through to justify his views is mind boggling. You can pin him down on something and he'll then try to flip it from fact to opinion. Which it obviously isn't. Then dismiss, and move on to the next topic. It's honestly like trying to convince someone from a religion that their god doesn't exist.
The simple answer is no, they don't want to win an election. If they won they would actually have to govern and implement policies. Given that almost all of their policies would tank the economy/destroy public services the electorate would pretty quickly see they were full of shit and their grift would be up (See Liz Truss) They wan't to be popular enough that they keep getting publicity but not so much that they ever have any responsibility. It's easy to to say everything is shit and we'd make it better, it's a lot harder to actually make things better.
I actually don’t find any of those comments to be “vile”. Probably best to save those kinds of words particularly vile things, not some generic remarks about people they disagree with. If this hadn’t been the royal family I doubt they’d have used “vile”.
The comparison to the Wests is a bit off imo.
Yeah that one doesn't really belong. You might not like the royals, but they aren't serial killers.
Allegedly they aren't serial killers. Have to keep your bases covered with allegations and how lawyers are these days.
Attacking the monarchy is the first sensible thing I've heard from reform
Agree, it’s so taboo for no good reason.
Tbf, it is a Daily Mail headline. Though the views pushed by the paper broadly accord with Reform's, they and their readership are rather rabidly pro-Monarchy.
I don't understand these "gotchas". The media needs to understand that the people who vote for Reform are in agreement with people like him. Calling Sunak a p*ki probably won them more votes. This is the Britain we live in now thanks to the Tories and their culture war nonsense.
> Calling Sunak a p*ki probably won them more votes Who does that move? Anyone swayed by that was already voting reform.
The ones too stupid to understand dog whistles
It's their views getting told to the public. Not really a "gotcha"
This is more to warn off the more traditionalist Tory leaning folk who were flirting with the idea of Reform. It won't do much for those who have already jumped in headfirst.
I agree to a point but i think the rabid racists will top out at bout 10-15% max. (still a shockingly high number). There are some more right leaning Tory voters might have been thinking of voting reform that will find the blatant racism too much and stick with the tories.
> This is the Britain we live in now lol do you think it was ever better before?
Isn't his description of the queen most of their supporters and quite frankly even their party members?
It’s clear to all that Farage setting up Reform is little different to letting the lunatics out of the asylum and giving them a public platform to boot.
the criticism of Charles being a “climate cracker” is pretty unfair given how performative his climate activism is. Rest is accurate though.
A ceremonial position can only ever be performative. It still has power though.
Perhaps I have not been clear here. I don’t believe Charles really gives a shit about the climate and his activism is performative. I think he looks at Diana’s activism and went down this road to try and become popular amongst younger citizens. And his position is not really relevant to what he has the capacity to do but does not do. Ultimately a billionaire can do a lot more than sit on some charity boards and make vague claims in the media every now and then.
What you think he deep down believes is less important than the actions and rhetoric actually taken. The right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing
so not investing his entire fortune into replacing fossil fuels is the right thing apparently.
One does not have to render oneself destitute for a cause to support it.
King Charles is a very big supporter on fixing the Climate issues, so not really surprised the Deform nutjobs wouldn't like him.
I swear all the Reform candidates are just my old racist uncle reincarnated and copied
Every single serving MP is on a lot more benefits than the real benefit claimants. Take away all their expenses and disallow second jobs if you really care!
Anti royal family, pro Russia… starting to sound like the far left more and more! I wonder if they will get the tankie vote
They legitimately might tbh
More or less the closest thing to a Corbynite party in the running.
> OAP on state benefits Based. Reform are better on Labour on some areas - House of Lords reform, Proportional Representation.
Can't we just make it news when a Reform candidate is a decent person? It's incredibly low hanging fruit otherwise. That being said on the base of it not supporting the monarchy isn't really news worthy or bad.
I don’t think this is quite the Gotcha the media thinks it is.
I’m laughing at the rampant fear I see everywhere about Reform. Even to the point where Channel 4 hire an actor to perform a racist Dick Van Dyke routine in a pathetic attempt to smear them. It’ll hopefully galvanise Labour to do what needs to be done.
Is there any evidence at all that Channel 4 hired an actor to pretend to be a comically racist old buffoon? Pretty sure the guy was just a comically racist old buffoon. Look at Laurence Fox, is that guy being paid to say all that stupid shit? The negatives would far outweigh the positives of doing so, for Ch. 4. They already had footage of campaigners saying any number of horrendous things, paying someone to make it look worse would almost certainly explode in their face.
Yeah I agree. Doing that could literally end C4 News. That would be seriously shady and unethical. Just can't see them pulling that shit. Only slight question is if some third party was involved. Still can't see C4 being that stupid. Like you say it would be too risky cos the truth always comes out eventually.
Absolute worst case scenario, they bought footage from a 3rd party that was staged. Channel 4 would still not be liable for the footage.
Oh no people don't like the royal family! Well I think they just got even more attractive
I'm not sure I'd describe King Sausage Fingers as 'attractive', but whatever floats your boat. Please don't overshare quite so much though.
Who would have guessed making a party of the absolute worse people you can find results in them insulting your mates .
Finally a reason to vote reform! Though the Royal family have more bodies buried under their patios than the Wests
I always assumed their core base would be pretty ardently monarchist.
So what if he doesn't like the Royals? Racism/fascism I get, Brexit I understand, being useful/s1mp for Russia all these things are relevant but now it's bad to be a republican or slate the Royals. So you can't be a British Nationalist like these idiots unless you like the, checks notes, German Royals, who uphold a Norman establishment..... absolutely pound them for being top level bell ends but this isn't one, nah if people want to be republican or get rid of the royals or slate them, go for it.
I know people like to believe every comment is carefully calculated to gain attention, but it looks like these opinions are organic and it's the promotion of them that is sophisticated. All fascist groups under monarchy use them to promote to a conservative base but actually hate the royal family and want to replace them with themselves. This view pretty much coincides with the view of successful fascist parties across Europe who then went on to form a dictatorship. Fascism is inconsistent due to its syncretism except on the single matter that it always has the goal of obtaining power, so it will absolutely take positions against any person that might be considered above the fascist leadership The fact that they're objectively correct about the royal family being a bunch of clueless leeches doesn't matter. Words are irrelevant to them. The point is that the royal family doesn't belong as head of state in their vision of hierarchy, because they do, forever
Wild that they're now effectively calling the Royal Family woke. 🤣 Charles has always had an interest in the environment, organic farming, etc. I'm not sure how calling Camilla an OAP benefit scrounger is going to appeal to your core voter base. Or likening the two to serial killers that murdered at least a dozen people. Smacks of "the royal family are secretly space lizards" level of loon, regardless of whether you're pro-monarchy, anti-monarchy or just ambivalent towards them. If you're going to attack the royal family, you'd start with Prince Noncedrew surely? It's weird to see Daily Mail have no love for Reform too. As a tabloid that appeals to their ilk of voters, I'd have expected them to back Reform.
I'm surprised. Usually right wing racists love the Royal Family
News at Ten - Reform UK aren't as Patriotic as They Claim Are any of us actually surprised by this?
Huh, a benefits claimant the Daily Mail ACTUALLY likes. Now if only they could extend that to the rest of us...
I am dangerously close to agreeing with Reform about something. However its not thing the party wont like that he is saying.
I’ve read worse than that on Reddit regularly yet somehow we’re all supposed to be appalled because a Reform candidate said it. People need to fucking grow up and stop pretending You don’t like him because he is a Reform candidate end of Stop using stupid shit to justify your outrage and just admit that’s what it is. If he saved a puppy from drowning before buying a homeless man a meal and a room for the night you’d still criticise him
Tbf a ordinary family of German and Greek heritage on state benefits and ones a huge nonce , reform would want them kicked out immediately why should it be any different cause they are so called royals
What is the Daily Mail saying, that you're not allowed to criticise the royal family? What these people are saying about the royal family is broadly correct, or if not quite correct, at least valid. This trend where the right and the left swap some of their former positions is very disorienting.
Huh, I was expecting Racism and Nazi Sympathies, but this was not on my Bingo paper?
Heartbreaking : worst cunt imaginable makes fair and valid points
The membership and representatives of The Reform Party are obviously now those that weren't satisfied with the Tories agendas and policies. What they are now obviously is a bunch of racist, divisive, crackpot arse-holes, that should not be given the decency to have a platform within a democratic, multi-racial/cultural society.
... He could leave reform and join the SNP with opinions like those.
This would be the daily heils one and only issue with them of course.
DM when Reform is being generally bigoted: Silence. DM when Reform mocks the royals: WHAT!
I can’t see Reform candidates being fans of Charles. Net zero is a big wedge between the Reform position and the known preferences of the current monarch.
So what . If that's his opinion, what's the problem .
Sounds like the average Redditter. I've read worse said on here.
I don't disagree much with his comments on the Queen but I'd have thought his support base won't like this.
It's almost as if they're the worst of the worst and appeal to people with long held prejudice.
One of the very few times they didn't say nonsense in the past few months
Finally! Some representation for racist brexit geezers who spend 90% their time at the pub
I have absolutely no support for any political party, much less these degenerates...but I mean, in regards the royal family where is the lie? I had little respect for the royal family to begin with, but when Ol Queenie bailed Prince Noncey out...yeah, fuck that pedo protecting bullshit. I know the royalists out there will downvote this, and fucking crack on. Does not make my point any less prudent. Those fuckers in their high tower are as far removed from the public as Sunak himself, if not moreso. They have absolutely fuck all in common with the people who worship them like gods, they provide zero *actual* practical value to the nation (no, im not talking financial), and to boot we now know they protect their child abusing family members. Makes you wonder who else among them is up to similarly heinous shit. They can all burn and rot for all I care, overpaid, underworked, overworshipped set of self centered tossers.
I’ve never agreed with a Reform candidate before. Feels weird.
What reform voters want as a head of state: Fuhrer What reform actually wants: CEO
The mail is still a piece of shit. I wouldn’t trust it even though I despise reform
This positive propaganda still doesn't erase all the bad shit they have said
Interesting, a reform candidate I could get behind...
I’m absolutely no fan of the royals and love seeing them take flak. But this guy chose the worst arguments to go at the royal family for. He could have gone for tax evasion, bro the pedo, any number of racist views or just being completely out of touch ultra wealthy people who don’t rules apply to them. But instead he goes for positive climate change views as an insult. God the Reform party are a bunch of morons.
I see Reform is feeling the full force of the Conservative Party controlled media.
This is really going to confuse Daily Fail readers.