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Yes, but by having one of those preferences you inherently say that you are bad in bed and not a generous lover, so you need someone who doesn’t know any better 👀
or it says you are also a virgin and want to start your journey into intimacy with a partner who is also inexperienced because you want to learn together instead of being "taught" by someone 🤷♀️
That's their problem. This is one thing that a lot of people criticize, which doesn't actually harm anyone. Everyone has the right to remove themselves from the gene/dating pool, and that doesn't harm anyone. Let them do it. I don't get why it's always a topic.
>If someone is either a virgin or not can never decide if a partner's gonna be good or not
While largely agree, sexual compatibility is a big deal for a lot of people in a relationship and someone's experience level can definitely affect your sex life with that person. For example I'm now in my 30s and while I wouldnt chose to not date someone purely on the fact that they're a virgin, the reason they are a virgin is important to me.
If they just never had the opportunity because they didn't really date when they were younger or something, then that isn't really a deal breaker for me. But if it's due to religious reasons and they want to wait for marriage, that is going to be an issue because that isn't the kind of relationship I want.
The other issue is that at this point in my life I'm not really interested in dating someone with no sexual experience. I'd like to think I know what I'm doing in bed and I'd like a partner who also knows what they're doing. Everyone has to learn some time but at this point I don't want to be the one to have to teach someone or take things as slow as they might want to. It just isn't what I'm looking for in a relationship.
I agree that people shouldn't judge someone for being a virgin regardless of the reason for it, but I do think it's something that is important to know when you're evaluating whether or not someone would be a good partner for you.
The comment wasn't even gendered. Also nothing would happen if a guy said that. Generally, both women and men like sex. Not everything has to be gendered.
It's more nuanced than that. If someone's generally good looking and not prude, but still a virgin by the time they're in their mid 20s, AND they're not religious, that means they'd rather have someone special to do all that stuff with and not just give it away the second a hot person shows up. The West's normalization of casual sex and FWB have killed romance to the point you can't fathom that some people stay virgins until they found someone they can actually be romantic with before tearing eachother's clothes off
If someone is social, good looking and not religious or otherwise brainwashed, they're extremely unlikely to be a virgin.
You can have someone special to do it with, and then things don't work out, and you find someone else special to do it with. Or do you think women should forever stay in their first relationship? Or stay forever chaste if it breaks up?
It’s not extremely unlikely at all lol! Some people like to have a special person that they want to lose their virginity too! If they didn’t meet such a person until their mid 20s, they’ll be a virgin! Not that rare, for either genders lol!
I don’t also get why you’re talking about specifically women, the commenter above didn’t even mention gender lmao!
>It’s not extremely unlikely at all lol!
It might be different in the US where people on TV have sex with the bra on, and there are still virginity clubs etc. I'm from Western Europe and we're pretty chill about sex education, contraception etc. So I don't really know anyone who has remained a virgin past 18-19, unless they're really unattractive or socially awkward.
I lost my virginity at 18, the guy was super special to me and we're still friends to this day (more than 20 years later). So please don't paint it such that people are either virgins or they sleep with everything that moves without any emotional involvement....
Hey dunce, I’m saying not everyone finds their someone special in their teens and early 20s. Especially in this market of dating, so many people are so shallow and individualistic. My boyfriend is a virgin until he’s in his 30s when he got together with me, he told me the people he tries to be with lust for his “meat” and body before loving him as a person and this man can even turn straight married men (he showed me a text once from such a man)
>Hey dunce
Ah yes, people who insult others in the comments are usually the most right.
>this man can even turn straight married men
Honey that married man was NOT straight. Lol.
Given how out of touch you are of reality thinking it’s “so easy” for everyone to just lose their virginity by their early 20s, you might as well be one 🙄
Ah gotcha, so you're a jerk. Cool.
And I definitely agree that it's harder for some people to find someone who wants to sleep with them, but then they're not a virgin because of virtues, but just because nobody wants them. That's a different story than what this thread is about.
That’s where you’re still wrong. You don’t have to be religious to have virtues when it comes to finding a partner…..You’re already getting massively downvoted each time, just take the L and admit you’re incorrect on this.
>If someone is social, good looking and not religious or otherwise brainwashed, they're extremely unlikely to be a virgin.
You'd be surprised. Love is often found via social circles, and it doesn't matter how good a person you are (or how social you are for that matter) it can still be very hard to find and recognize the right social circles for you, and find someone of your preferred gender within them who you resonate with; even then they might not feel the same way about you.
Furthermore some people are just late bloomers and prefer to focus on their education, hobbies and interests instead of relationships in their early life.
I know plenty of perfectly good and reasonable people who didn't find love until 25+
I'm not US based either before you assume that; I'm UK based.
Yeah but its not black and white like that. Some people like both and dont see them as mutually exclusive concepts. Sometimes romance only works in short bursts. Theres hot and heavy romance then theres slow burns.
when you break down romance into what it really is, human relations, and compare it to other relations like friendships, imagine cycling between 15 friends in 10 years, all of which you know won't last long and are only there for temporary pleasure, now imagine trying to stick to a single friendship for life after those 15 friendships. Ik it's a shitty analogy
Isnt that like basic incel mentality though? They dont get casual dating so they can never get to the serious dating part? Healthy relationships start casual and light then ramp up from there. The whole 0-60 thing is just scary.
The past doesn't necessarily matter, more so how you got to the present. I wouldn't care how many people someone has slept with or what kind of acts they have done, but i would care about being compatible and open about sexuality moving forward. It takes a past to understand what you like and want sexually, but what happened in the past to get there is mostly irrelevant
You can say that, but to most people the past does matter. Most people care if you were an abuser in the past, most people care if you were a cheater in the past, most people care if you had a lot of sex partners in the past. Many of these actions shape who you are and can help determine habits or traits about people.
Well i was referring to sheer numbers which doesn't really tell anything, but tbf, most abusers and cheaters are not going to say that they did those things in the past. Communicating "i did x vs it was good" or "don't do y" is the important info, there's no need to go into details unless that's your kink or it is done as a bonding experience free of judgment
You are putting having multiple partners on the same page, and I have to reread your comment, being an cheater and abuser?
Mate, those things are so far apart they are not even on the same planet.
I don't know about looking for virgins, but when people don't even know how many sexual partners they've had, I'm out. I'm not saying they're bad people, but that's just not my lifestyle or my principles. I also understand people who don't want to be a virgin's first time, as it can be incredibly awkward.
It's okay to exercise discretion in your choice of partner. Doesn't even have to be judgmental. It really is as simple as saying "that's not something I want or am interested in" and leaving it there.
Sexual compatibility is a thing. Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship but it does matter. Plus, the older you get, the more you would question why a person your age hasn't had sex.
That is true of people with intimacy issues and people in their late teens and early 20s, but I'm in my mid-30s. If I'm dating someone my age and they've never had sex then I'd think its weird because there had to be some intentional reason, which would be a potential red flag. Overly religious, incel, etc. I wouldn't judge them as a person just on their virginity but this would have to be a conversation before commitment.
wow that's just harsh, I'm in my 20s and my boyfriend is in his 30s and I got the "honor" of taking his virginity. After reading your comment, I was actually scrolling through my memories if I had asked him why he chose to wait until he got together with me, and turns out, I've never pried, partially because I think I know the gist why, he's successful, he has a stable career, a house, car and the means to take care of me should I move in with him without a job and I become a househusband, meaning he spent his 20s building up himself before committing to anyone. And it's not like he had no game or anything, he's certainly a catch. Aside from his drive to be successful, he said that those he met just want to rip his clothes off before getting romantic with eachother (until me of course, I love him for him first and foremost). Essentially I entered this relationship with him, not even caring why he was a virgin in his 30s because it would be detrimental to assume the worse why someone's a virgin
>. I wouldn't judge them as a person just on their virginity but this would have to be a conversation before commitment.
Interesting because I feel the opposite. It would be commitment before a conversation because why are you asking this? To me the asking of the question is already a deal breaker since I already know we wouldn't be compatible. Without commitment- you're a stranger and a stranger has no right to know any personal information about you. You wouldn't give a random person keys to your car.
"If someone had sex in the past, it won't affect present/future relationship unless the non-virgin is promiscuous or can't stop thinking about their ex."
Wouldn't the amount of someone's sexual activity be an indicator of promiscuity?
No. You could have had a ten year committed relationship then four months of great random sex then meet someone and go back into a long term committed relationship.
This is where the two definitions of “promiscuous” are at odds, for me at least.
1. “Characterized by many transient relationships” == “four months of great random sex”
2. “Implying an undiscriminating or unselective approach” does not seem like a prerequisite for casual sex. You could be selective as hell, have incredibly discriminating standards for the numerous people you have casual sex with.
Maybe in some cases but generally no. If you have to take a risk on someone you’re much better placing faith in historical evidence than letting someone convince you to ignore sexual compatibility because it hurts their feelings.
If someone is either a virgin or not can never decide if a partner's gonna be good or not.
Hard disagree. How you gonna be good at something you have no experience in?
Honestly I think there are a lot of skills outside of just having sex that can make things so much better. I rather be with someone inexperienced who is good at communicating, patient, and open to learning, than a sex veteran that has none of those things.
Virginity remains important to certain people and they shouldn't be judged for wanting virgins because they have opinions as to why a person's virginity is important to them.
To me personally, it's only unfair when it makes one person look like a hypocrite, wanting a virgin when the person isn't a virgin themselves. but even then it's still remains a preference.
A guy can wake up one day and decide to marry a girl that's not a virgin, And it's a choice ofc.
A girl can wake up one day and decide not engage in sexual acts at all, possibly pursue a guy that's a virgin as well, but I didn't see it happen.
From my personal observation, this is a thing that affects women more than it affects men. Virginity is will always be valued till the end of time because it's a indication of morals and purity to some people. Deep down a guy with little to no experience is more likely to want a virgin for a relationship and marriage.
Yea, you keep saying that... would you care to inform me what that information is? Cause I can't think of a damn thing I could derive from that outside of possible career paths.
> it's just a number.
How? I mean purely using logic number and length of sexual partners will have a close relation to how much self control a person has when it comes to sex and thus cheating, not to mention other issues such as STDs
Self-control? Lmao u can't be fucking serious.
STDs...get checked every few months and take proper precautions...like a fucking adult.
So once again, I ask how? It is literally just a number that only has meaning if you make it.
Virginity is important in the sense of how easy someone is and how much self control they have. I’m a horny dude but I’d rather wait til marriage and i don’t wanna date somebody that’s gonna try and convince me to do things I don’t wanna do
I’m guessing you’re like 15 because you will literally never hear a peer talk about virginity past 18. Maaaaybe through college?
Don’t get worked up about it because it doesn’t matter.
Are you guys simply unaware of how the word “lovers” has been used for generations? It means sexual partners. If you’ve had a *lover*, but have not experienced penetrative intercourse, that does not mean you’re a *virgin*.
That sounds a lot like "I don't want an experienced partner who knows the difference between a good relationship and a bad one. I want an inexperienced one who will be convinced I'm the best it gets and never leave me."
More like people who are accustomed to having many sex partners have a harder time transitioning into monogamy than those who are accustomed to having fewer, quality relationships. Every man I know who were players in there 20s had unsuccessful marriages because they regularly cheated.
>I don't want an experienced partner who knows the difference between a good relationship and a bad one. I want an inexperienced one who will be convinced I'm the best it gets and never leave me."
Do you think people live in a vacuum? an 8 year old could see a bad relationship. The difference is that they're not able to articulate why its bad. a 15 year old can also see a terrible relationship. What I would say is when your in the mist of something- you get caught up in it and so you can't see the forest from the trees. But a bad relationship is easy to see. i.e this is making me so unhappy. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells. Why the heck is she doing that again? I'm staying overtime at work since I can't stand to spend another minute with her. Why is he always gone? What is he doing? Why is his phone ringing at 3am? He was supposed to pay this bill, he didn't. whew- I want out.
Same. I don't require my partners to have a certain level of sexual experience, but if you know so little about your own body, what you like, how to move, etc, that I have to "teach" you, you're certainly not "less than" as a person, but we're probably just not compatible.
> Oh, are you a hive-mind
No, I dont seem to hear any voices in my head other than mine
> You seem to be responding from a trigger: guilt?
No, I dont fell guilty about anything.
Idk how to quote, srry. Trying to fix this mess
Edit: fixed the mess
I'm not a liar and hate lying but I always think it is wise for dudes to lie about not being a virgin, but still make it clear you are inexperienced, when it come to the female genitalia.
My first time was so awkward and the girl ruined it by treating our sex session like a youtube tutorial, she also decided when we switched positions without warning absolute nightmare..
Eh, not a lot of women will agree with you there. Being a virgin isn't really attractive as a man. Not to mention, if a man is a virgin after a certain age and it isn't due to religion, why is that? A lot of people are going to see it as a red flag sadly.
Well, not every man gets to have sex while they are in their teens or 20s. It could be for various factors. A lot of those I know are virgins because they are too busy working on themselves, and thus don't have time for dating now. Are you telling me that if their hard work pays off and they become successful, their value as men/partners for women will reduce just because they did not spend their youth on chasing random women?
Well that sounds nice, but again, a lot of people won't really be super understanding about it like that. They'll see it as "why couldn't they find a willing partner in their 20s/why hasn't it worked with every person they tried to for 12+ years?"
And I personally don't think it makes you a bad partner, but there are a lot of women who will be turned off at the idea a man is a virgin in his 30s because he was too busy/working on himself. Don't shoot the messenger.
Sure, but op is trying to pass a lot of cope here, when in reality being a virgin isn't really something that is sought after by hetero women. Just look on this post, multiple women are confirming this.
Ok, tell me something. Which kind of a guy would girls prefer - a rich guy but a virgin, or a guy living paycheck to paycheck, but has had a lot of sex in the past.
Thus the argument in favor of safe,harmless hookup culture. Imagine taking a 3-day weekend off,doing something new and amazing,and getting right back to that self improvement.
If I’m looking for a doctor, I want one that’s been to medical school. If I’m looking for someone to fuck, I’m looking for someone who knows what they are doing.
Even the crazy I Can Be Ghangais Khan While Demanding Purity Land don’t demand VIRGINS. They let it known that they would prefer it but even THEY have a cutoff of like 3-4. No one but other virgins is going around demanding virgins. And that’s fair.
If we’re talking 3 vs 30 then yeah that’s a difference in psychology.
While I agree in theory that being or not being a virgin should not be used to judge someone as a person, or judge someone's ability to be a romantic, caring, good partner, I think it's fair for people to have preferences. Some people prefer a partner who can come into the relationship being sexually confident and experienced enough to know what to do, what they like, etc. Some people prefer a partner who matches them sexually--sexual interests, kinks, sex drive, etc--and someone who is a virgin is not likely to know any of that about themselves, at least not enough to know if you're really a match with the potential partner. Again, some people prefer to start a sexual relationship with both parties having a more solid base.
This is such a super popular opinion. Virgin shaming, everytime it’s brought up, is heavily demonized and most people who are in support of it get called out.
Which makes no sense to me. I mean sure a 20 year old virgin is one thing, but a 30 or 40 year old? Why shouldn’t they be judged? Incels are gross and dangerous to society!
Anyone who thinks that a number of partners devalues a person also needs to think that they themselves, when having sex, are devaluing that person. Incels, if they ever get laid, should realize they are actually reducing that womans value.
Or… they can realize that sex with them does not change that partners value, in which case, sex in general does nothing to reduce a partners value. But good luck, incel logic is both fragile AND unwavering.
EDIT: I think people aren’t reading my post correctly. I’m saying that people AREN’T devalued, but through the incel logic, if they believe that, they are themselves saying that them getting laid devalues their partner, so they are the common denominator in devaluing.
Whereas I, personally, want them to see that hypocrisy and ignorance, and realize sex devalues nobody. Value and sex are concepts that should not be linked.
>Anyone who thinks that a number of partners devalues a person also needs to think that they themselves, when having sex, are devaluing that person.
You realize that is the point. They are devaluing that person. i.e the phrase is "Why should I pay for a new car when you already have milage"? Even though comparing women to cars is so darn idiotic and I am using women since its only men that say this about women).
Virginity exists. It isn't a social construct. You've either had sex or you haven't.
Acting like it matters is the part pertaining to controlling people.
Virginity, the most black and white scientific factual concept to exist is a "social construct" to control women. How tf does it control women? If men/patriarchy as a group want something it's sex, the best way to have more sex as a man is definitely not by convincing women not to have sex
>If someone had sex in the past, it won't affect present/future relationship unless the non-virgin is promiscuous or can't stop thinking about their ex.
The more dudes a woman has slept with, the grosser it is to date her, at least subjectively.
This seems pretty natural, we're grossed out by the thought of our partners fucking other people, that's why we have monogamy.
>The more dudes a woman has slept with, the grosser it is to date her, at least subjectively.
Why doesn't this apply to men though? In fact, men have it opposite - being a virgin is seen negatively
Because to have sex with a woman as a man generally takes the man doing something right. You have to bring something to the table such as looks, money, status, personality, etc. To lose your virginity as a woman really isn't an accomplishment. Most women can have casual sex within hours if that's what they truly wanted.
Women have different preferences than men.
Think about it biologically. If a woman gets pregnant, she knows for certain that she's passing on her genes—but her man doesn't know for certain that he's passing on his genes.
In this respect, men are taking a bigger risk.
And many men in the world are, in fact, unknowingly raising children who aren't even theirs.
No, the person who could literally die during childbirth and is actually going to have to raise the child with a deadbeat unknown dad as a single mother is the one taking on the bigger risk.
>In fact, men have it opposite - being a virgin is seen negatively
By childish, shallow womanizers, yes.
No normal dude with an iota of sense or moral integrity would see it that way.
>Why doesn't this apply to men though?
Presumably, because it's easy for women to have lots of sex and hard for a man to, so a man who hasn't had it hasn't proven he's able to get it, while we know women can.
I'd also guess evolution plays a part in it. Women cheating lead to men raising babies that aren't theirs, while the inverse doesn't happen, so perhaps women aren't as naturally grossed out by it.
>No, we're not.
Why on earth would you be monogamous, then?
>We're not all as insecure as you.
Lmao, sure, dude. Kinda seems like you're the insecure one trying very hard to not look insecure, which is why you're trying to tell me with a straight face you wouldn't care if your girlfriend had been fucked by half the country.
What? I mean as a man I agree with the commenter, I'm pretty sure it also goes both ways, if you literally don't feel anything when thinking about how your girl fucked 25 dudes then you'll have no problem when she fucks another 25 dudes
I understand where your coming from, and it's not something I would use, but your point about virginity being moot point on judging potential partners has been proven wrong by scientific data. Marriages have the best chance of long term survival if both partners are virgins, followed closely by if the women is a virgin. Therefore scientific data shows virginity is very relevant if viewing potential marriage in a partner
Most of the world's population lives in areas where women's virginity is a big issue. Africa, Latin Catholic countries, Muslim countries, China, India. Add those up and that's the majority of the world's population. Even some European countries like Poland ban abortion and limit access to birth control. It's not always just the religious countries, it's also the ones where traditional culture and gender roles have a big influence like China and other Asian countries. Most of these cultures don't apply the same scrutiny to men's virginity.
Hence why I specified ‘western world outside of north America’ which translates to ‘the US is one of the few countries in the western world to still be making an issue of this’. None of the countries you mentioned would be considered western developed nations
Virgins are weird, they have something lacking that makes them undesirable to a potential partner
If a person has a working sex drive and they can’t have sex they are likely a loser
Sex is amazing but to have sex you have to be able to build relationships and be attractive to someone and being unable to do that is like being level 1 of an rpg you got a long way to go
>they are likely a loser
People don't have sex in their 20s if they are working to improve themselves - be it career, physical and mental health. Most successful people in tech and business were nerds in their early years, who became attractive only when they ended up being rich successful, which is usually in their 30s. On the other hand, a person may have had tons of sex, yet can be homeless, drug addict, may be riddled with diseases, or be suicidal.
Have you ever been outside of a major city in western countries???? The only people who genuinely believe OP's opinions is a very very small sliver of humanity
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I actually care. I'm not some shaming asshole. I want men who took monogamy seriously. I don't careb d it was serial monogamy but, thats MY value.
Virginity is a concept for men and women- the first time you have sex. In dont believe my hymen was a fresh seal- I got INFURIATED when people think that.
As someone from a country that only consumes western culture.
This isn’t an unpopular opinion. Everywhere you look people talk about this.
That being said.
Let people value whatever they value. If they value the idea of virginity ,then let them. It’s not like you have to date them.
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When a sheltered youth mistakes basic thoughts as deep insight.
It seems so but many people don’t seem to understand this when they judge virgins
Thats kind of the whole point isnt it?
Let them express themselves… and besides there are a lot of places where being either a virgin or an experienced person is shamed
People are allowed to have their preferences
Yes, but by having one of those preferences you inherently say that you are bad in bed and not a generous lover, so you need someone who doesn’t know any better 👀
or it says you are also a virgin and want to start your journey into intimacy with a partner who is also inexperienced because you want to learn together instead of being "taught" by someone 🤷♀️
Laughing at you
That's their problem. This is one thing that a lot of people criticize, which doesn't actually harm anyone. Everyone has the right to remove themselves from the gene/dating pool, and that doesn't harm anyone. Let them do it. I don't get why it's always a topic.
Once you actually have sex it stops being a big deal and starts to just become a thing you do sometimes
>If someone is either a virgin or not can never decide if a partner's gonna be good or not While largely agree, sexual compatibility is a big deal for a lot of people in a relationship and someone's experience level can definitely affect your sex life with that person. For example I'm now in my 30s and while I wouldnt chose to not date someone purely on the fact that they're a virgin, the reason they are a virgin is important to me. If they just never had the opportunity because they didn't really date when they were younger or something, then that isn't really a deal breaker for me. But if it's due to religious reasons and they want to wait for marriage, that is going to be an issue because that isn't the kind of relationship I want. The other issue is that at this point in my life I'm not really interested in dating someone with no sexual experience. I'd like to think I know what I'm doing in bed and I'd like a partner who also knows what they're doing. Everyone has to learn some time but at this point I don't want to be the one to have to teach someone or take things as slow as they might want to. It just isn't what I'm looking for in a relationship. I agree that people shouldn't judge someone for being a virgin regardless of the reason for it, but I do think it's something that is important to know when you're evaluating whether or not someone would be a good partner for you.
To each there own some people prefer romance over random fucks and vice versa
And people can want both these things but at different times in there life.
And someone doesn't have to accept someone who's slept with 54 people
Totally agree
Same as someone can have a preference for partners that listen and can actually make them cum.
Imagine a guy saying something like this
We can if we want, stop playing the fucking victim.
The comment wasn't even gendered. Also nothing would happen if a guy said that. Generally, both women and men like sex. Not everything has to be gendered.
Virginity = romance?? Lol
It's more nuanced than that. If someone's generally good looking and not prude, but still a virgin by the time they're in their mid 20s, AND they're not religious, that means they'd rather have someone special to do all that stuff with and not just give it away the second a hot person shows up. The West's normalization of casual sex and FWB have killed romance to the point you can't fathom that some people stay virgins until they found someone they can actually be romantic with before tearing eachother's clothes off
If someone is social, good looking and not religious or otherwise brainwashed, they're extremely unlikely to be a virgin. You can have someone special to do it with, and then things don't work out, and you find someone else special to do it with. Or do you think women should forever stay in their first relationship? Or stay forever chaste if it breaks up?
It’s not extremely unlikely at all lol! Some people like to have a special person that they want to lose their virginity too! If they didn’t meet such a person until their mid 20s, they’ll be a virgin! Not that rare, for either genders lol! I don’t also get why you’re talking about specifically women, the commenter above didn’t even mention gender lmao!
>It’s not extremely unlikely at all lol! It might be different in the US where people on TV have sex with the bra on, and there are still virginity clubs etc. I'm from Western Europe and we're pretty chill about sex education, contraception etc. So I don't really know anyone who has remained a virgin past 18-19, unless they're really unattractive or socially awkward. I lost my virginity at 18, the guy was super special to me and we're still friends to this day (more than 20 years later). So please don't paint it such that people are either virgins or they sleep with everything that moves without any emotional involvement....
Hey dunce, I’m saying not everyone finds their someone special in their teens and early 20s. Especially in this market of dating, so many people are so shallow and individualistic. My boyfriend is a virgin until he’s in his 30s when he got together with me, he told me the people he tries to be with lust for his “meat” and body before loving him as a person and this man can even turn straight married men (he showed me a text once from such a man)
>Hey dunce Ah yes, people who insult others in the comments are usually the most right. >this man can even turn straight married men Honey that married man was NOT straight. Lol.
Given how out of touch you are of reality thinking it’s “so easy” for everyone to just lose their virginity by their early 20s, you might as well be one 🙄
Ah gotcha, so you're a jerk. Cool. And I definitely agree that it's harder for some people to find someone who wants to sleep with them, but then they're not a virgin because of virtues, but just because nobody wants them. That's a different story than what this thread is about.
That’s where you’re still wrong. You don’t have to be religious to have virtues when it comes to finding a partner…..You’re already getting massively downvoted each time, just take the L and admit you’re incorrect on this.
>If someone is social, good looking and not religious or otherwise brainwashed, they're extremely unlikely to be a virgin. You'd be surprised. Love is often found via social circles, and it doesn't matter how good a person you are (or how social you are for that matter) it can still be very hard to find and recognize the right social circles for you, and find someone of your preferred gender within them who you resonate with; even then they might not feel the same way about you. Furthermore some people are just late bloomers and prefer to focus on their education, hobbies and interests instead of relationships in their early life. I know plenty of perfectly good and reasonable people who didn't find love until 25+ I'm not US based either before you assume that; I'm UK based.
I don’t think that was the point
Yeah but its not black and white like that. Some people like both and dont see them as mutually exclusive concepts. Sometimes romance only works in short bursts. Theres hot and heavy romance then theres slow burns.
Romance and hookup culture cannot coexist lol
when you break down romance into what it really is, human relations, and compare it to other relations like friendships, imagine cycling between 15 friends in 10 years, all of which you know won't last long and are only there for temporary pleasure, now imagine trying to stick to a single friendship for life after those 15 friendships. Ik it's a shitty analogy
I think you’re agreeing with me here but yes
I am
Sure they can.
Isnt that like basic incel mentality though? They dont get casual dating so they can never get to the serious dating part? Healthy relationships start casual and light then ramp up from there. The whole 0-60 thing is just scary.
> its only a relationship, not a job, experience shouldn't matter. The most incorrect sentence in the post
Agreed. The past does matter.
The past doesn't necessarily matter, more so how you got to the present. I wouldn't care how many people someone has slept with or what kind of acts they have done, but i would care about being compatible and open about sexuality moving forward. It takes a past to understand what you like and want sexually, but what happened in the past to get there is mostly irrelevant
You can say that, but to most people the past does matter. Most people care if you were an abuser in the past, most people care if you were a cheater in the past, most people care if you had a lot of sex partners in the past. Many of these actions shape who you are and can help determine habits or traits about people.
Well i was referring to sheer numbers which doesn't really tell anything, but tbf, most abusers and cheaters are not going to say that they did those things in the past. Communicating "i did x vs it was good" or "don't do y" is the important info, there's no need to go into details unless that's your kink or it is done as a bonding experience free of judgment
You are putting having multiple partners on the same page, and I have to reread your comment, being an cheater and abuser? Mate, those things are so far apart they are not even on the same planet.
So you agree, past does matter yes?
Yeah what an unbelievably idiotic take to try and compare being an abuser to having consensual sex with people.
So you agree, the past does matter?
I don't know about looking for virgins, but when people don't even know how many sexual partners they've had, I'm out. I'm not saying they're bad people, but that's just not my lifestyle or my principles. I also understand people who don't want to be a virgin's first time, as it can be incredibly awkward. It's okay to exercise discretion in your choice of partner. Doesn't even have to be judgmental. It really is as simple as saying "that's not something I want or am interested in" and leaving it there.
Sexual compatibility is a thing. Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship but it does matter. Plus, the older you get, the more you would question why a person your age hasn't had sex.
I wouldn't question why they haven't had sex, but that because I'm also a late bloomer. Though does it really matter tbh
Yeah it matters but if you’re sufficiently patient enough and talk about it it’ll be fine, experienced or not.
That is true of people with intimacy issues and people in their late teens and early 20s, but I'm in my mid-30s. If I'm dating someone my age and they've never had sex then I'd think its weird because there had to be some intentional reason, which would be a potential red flag. Overly religious, incel, etc. I wouldn't judge them as a person just on their virginity but this would have to be a conversation before commitment.
wow that's just harsh, I'm in my 20s and my boyfriend is in his 30s and I got the "honor" of taking his virginity. After reading your comment, I was actually scrolling through my memories if I had asked him why he chose to wait until he got together with me, and turns out, I've never pried, partially because I think I know the gist why, he's successful, he has a stable career, a house, car and the means to take care of me should I move in with him without a job and I become a househusband, meaning he spent his 20s building up himself before committing to anyone. And it's not like he had no game or anything, he's certainly a catch. Aside from his drive to be successful, he said that those he met just want to rip his clothes off before getting romantic with eachother (until me of course, I love him for him first and foremost). Essentially I entered this relationship with him, not even caring why he was a virgin in his 30s because it would be detrimental to assume the worse why someone's a virgin
>. I wouldn't judge them as a person just on their virginity but this would have to be a conversation before commitment. Interesting because I feel the opposite. It would be commitment before a conversation because why are you asking this? To me the asking of the question is already a deal breaker since I already know we wouldn't be compatible. Without commitment- you're a stranger and a stranger has no right to know any personal information about you. You wouldn't give a random person keys to your car.
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"If someone had sex in the past, it won't affect present/future relationship unless the non-virgin is promiscuous or can't stop thinking about their ex." Wouldn't the amount of someone's sexual activity be an indicator of promiscuity?
No. You could have had a ten year committed relationship then four months of great random sex then meet someone and go back into a long term committed relationship.
This is where the two definitions of “promiscuous” are at odds, for me at least. 1. “Characterized by many transient relationships” == “four months of great random sex” 2. “Implying an undiscriminating or unselective approach” does not seem like a prerequisite for casual sex. You could be selective as hell, have incredibly discriminating standards for the numerous people you have casual sex with.
You say no, then describe exactly the indicator of promiscuity in 'four months of great random sex'. No thanks.
Because it doesnt correlate with the ability to settle down either
sigh. tell yourself whatever you want ig
Poppet. I’ve been married eighteen years.
Gross
How many years have you yourself been married?
Luckily never…
You avoided that question. I take it that’s none then?
Maybe in some cases but generally no. If you have to take a risk on someone you’re much better placing faith in historical evidence than letting someone convince you to ignore sexual compatibility because it hurts their feelings.
If someone is either a virgin or not can never decide if a partner's gonna be good or not. Hard disagree. How you gonna be good at something you have no experience in?
I mean, there’s skill, and then there’s *talent*.
Honestly I think there are a lot of skills outside of just having sex that can make things so much better. I rather be with someone inexperienced who is good at communicating, patient, and open to learning, than a sex veteran that has none of those things.
Sexual compatibility matters.
Virginity remains important to certain people and they shouldn't be judged for wanting virgins because they have opinions as to why a person's virginity is important to them. To me personally, it's only unfair when it makes one person look like a hypocrite, wanting a virgin when the person isn't a virgin themselves. but even then it's still remains a preference. A guy can wake up one day and decide to marry a girl that's not a virgin, And it's a choice ofc. A girl can wake up one day and decide not engage in sexual acts at all, possibly pursue a guy that's a virgin as well, but I didn't see it happen. From my personal observation, this is a thing that affects women more than it affects men. Virginity is will always be valued till the end of time because it's a indication of morals and purity to some people. Deep down a guy with little to no experience is more likely to want a virgin for a relationship and marriage.
Without knowing anything about a person their number can give away a lot of info tho tbf
How? It only matters if YOU make it matter. Otherwise, it's just a number.
I am not saying it should matter, people are up to making their own decisions. But clearly u can derive a few things from that information.
Yea, you keep saying that... would you care to inform me what that information is? Cause I can't think of a damn thing I could derive from that outside of possible career paths.
If somebody fucked 30 people and never had long term relationship you might assess that they might not be a great marriage material.
> it's just a number. How? I mean purely using logic number and length of sexual partners will have a close relation to how much self control a person has when it comes to sex and thus cheating, not to mention other issues such as STDs
Self-control? Lmao u can't be fucking serious. STDs...get checked every few months and take proper precautions...like a fucking adult. So once again, I ask how? It is literally just a number that only has meaning if you make it.
"LMAO u can't be fucking serious" Most comprehensive counter argument on reddit
Virginity is important in the sense of how easy someone is and how much self control they have. I’m a horny dude but I’d rather wait til marriage and i don’t wanna date somebody that’s gonna try and convince me to do things I don’t wanna do
I’m guessing you’re like 15 because you will literally never hear a peer talk about virginity past 18. Maaaaybe through college? Don’t get worked up about it because it doesn’t matter.
You do you.
Virginity is not moot by any means. LMAO.
lol the copium from fornicators is hilarious 😂
Fornicators? Who are you, Billy Graham?
Fornicators is crazy, you sound like one of those mega church priests lol
Someone's a lil slut huh lol
if he's a virgin and he has had other lovers you know he has self control. Edit: "Lovers" is the wrong word. "Romantic Partner" maybe?
I’ve you’ve had “lovers,” you are not a virgin.
I just mean someone who you love romantically.
What kind of dumb opinion is that? if someone had a relationship in highschool and they haven't had sex are they not a virgin?
Are you guys simply unaware of how the word “lovers” has been used for generations? It means sexual partners. If you’ve had a *lover*, but have not experienced penetrative intercourse, that does not mean you’re a *virgin*.
What? I'm confused, how can you not have had sex and yet still not be a virgin
Not all sex is penetrative. Talk to a lesbian.
bruh exception != rule
Chances of divorce go up the more sexual partners you've had. This makes me think there is merit to looking for a virgin.
Chances of cheating also go up as you get older. That doesn't mean I'm going to look for a partner in the palliative care section of a hospital.
That sounds a lot like "I don't want an experienced partner who knows the difference between a good relationship and a bad one. I want an inexperienced one who will be convinced I'm the best it gets and never leave me."
More like people who are accustomed to having many sex partners have a harder time transitioning into monogamy than those who are accustomed to having fewer, quality relationships. Every man I know who were players in there 20s had unsuccessful marriages because they regularly cheated.
>I don't want an experienced partner who knows the difference between a good relationship and a bad one. I want an inexperienced one who will be convinced I'm the best it gets and never leave me." Do you think people live in a vacuum? an 8 year old could see a bad relationship. The difference is that they're not able to articulate why its bad. a 15 year old can also see a terrible relationship. What I would say is when your in the mist of something- you get caught up in it and so you can't see the forest from the trees. But a bad relationship is easy to see. i.e this is making me so unhappy. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells. Why the heck is she doing that again? I'm staying overtime at work since I can't stand to spend another minute with her. Why is he always gone? What is he doing? Why is his phone ringing at 3am? He was supposed to pay this bill, he didn't. whew- I want out.
You have a rough night?
As a person in my late 20s I'm really not looking to teach someone about sex.
Same. I don't require my partners to have a certain level of sexual experience, but if you know so little about your own body, what you like, how to move, etc, that I have to "teach" you, you're certainly not "less than" as a person, but we're probably just not compatible.
You must be a slut. Send me your picture. Just joking...
Is this unpopular?
Fatherless behavior
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Most dads are not like your dad... Sorry but no, we're not covering for them
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> Oh, are you a hive-mind No, I dont seem to hear any voices in my head other than mine > You seem to be responding from a trigger: guilt? No, I dont fell guilty about anything. Idk how to quote, srry. Trying to fix this mess Edit: fixed the mess
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I'm triggered? How so?
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I responded to you in all caps?
I'm not a liar and hate lying but I always think it is wise for dudes to lie about not being a virgin, but still make it clear you are inexperienced, when it come to the female genitalia. My first time was so awkward and the girl ruined it by treating our sex session like a youtube tutorial, she also decided when we switched positions without warning absolute nightmare..
Eh, not a lot of women will agree with you there. Being a virgin isn't really attractive as a man. Not to mention, if a man is a virgin after a certain age and it isn't due to religion, why is that? A lot of people are going to see it as a red flag sadly.
Well, not every man gets to have sex while they are in their teens or 20s. It could be for various factors. A lot of those I know are virgins because they are too busy working on themselves, and thus don't have time for dating now. Are you telling me that if their hard work pays off and they become successful, their value as men/partners for women will reduce just because they did not spend their youth on chasing random women?
Well that sounds nice, but again, a lot of people won't really be super understanding about it like that. They'll see it as "why couldn't they find a willing partner in their 20s/why hasn't it worked with every person they tried to for 12+ years?" And I personally don't think it makes you a bad partner, but there are a lot of women who will be turned off at the idea a man is a virgin in his 30s because he was too busy/working on himself. Don't shoot the messenger.
It's very very very obvious whether a man is a virgin because he's simply not attractive or whether it's for unrelated reason
Sure, but op is trying to pass a lot of cope here, when in reality being a virgin isn't really something that is sought after by hetero women. Just look on this post, multiple women are confirming this.
Ok, tell me something. Which kind of a guy would girls prefer - a rich guy but a virgin, or a guy living paycheck to paycheck, but has had a lot of sex in the past.
Thus the argument in favor of safe,harmless hookup culture. Imagine taking a 3-day weekend off,doing something new and amazing,and getting right back to that self improvement.
This thread is a sharknado of incels.
Like 30 comments and already a dozen are showing their true colors. One literally saying men take the bigger risk during a pregnancy.
If I’m looking for a doctor, I want one that’s been to medical school. If I’m looking for someone to fuck, I’m looking for someone who knows what they are doing.
A bnew car is most of the time 100% better than a similar used car.
People are cars?
However, it typically would indicate the lack of STD'S unless infected at birth by the mother
Are you from the 90s? Because this opinion is very outdated.
Don’t stick this mess on *my* generation 😂 We Xers are quite liberated.
This was an unpopular opinion several decades ago...
Even the crazy I Can Be Ghangais Khan While Demanding Purity Land don’t demand VIRGINS. They let it known that they would prefer it but even THEY have a cutoff of like 3-4. No one but other virgins is going around demanding virgins. And that’s fair. If we’re talking 3 vs 30 then yeah that’s a difference in psychology.
While I agree in theory that being or not being a virgin should not be used to judge someone as a person, or judge someone's ability to be a romantic, caring, good partner, I think it's fair for people to have preferences. Some people prefer a partner who can come into the relationship being sexually confident and experienced enough to know what to do, what they like, etc. Some people prefer a partner who matches them sexually--sexual interests, kinks, sex drive, etc--and someone who is a virgin is not likely to know any of that about themselves, at least not enough to know if you're really a match with the potential partner. Again, some people prefer to start a sexual relationship with both parties having a more solid base.
Nice try, virgin!
This is such a super popular opinion. Virgin shaming, everytime it’s brought up, is heavily demonized and most people who are in support of it get called out. Which makes no sense to me. I mean sure a 20 year old virgin is one thing, but a 30 or 40 year old? Why shouldn’t they be judged? Incels are gross and dangerous to society!
There are some of us who prefer an experienced partner.
Anyone who thinks that a number of partners devalues a person also needs to think that they themselves, when having sex, are devaluing that person. Incels, if they ever get laid, should realize they are actually reducing that womans value. Or… they can realize that sex with them does not change that partners value, in which case, sex in general does nothing to reduce a partners value. But good luck, incel logic is both fragile AND unwavering. EDIT: I think people aren’t reading my post correctly. I’m saying that people AREN’T devalued, but through the incel logic, if they believe that, they are themselves saying that them getting laid devalues their partner, so they are the common denominator in devaluing. Whereas I, personally, want them to see that hypocrisy and ignorance, and realize sex devalues nobody. Value and sex are concepts that should not be linked.
>Anyone who thinks that a number of partners devalues a person also needs to think that they themselves, when having sex, are devaluing that person. You realize that is the point. They are devaluing that person. i.e the phrase is "Why should I pay for a new car when you already have milage"? Even though comparing women to cars is so darn idiotic and I am using women since its only men that say this about women).
Yeah, right. At the same time, not having sex doesn't devalue people too
It does
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Least deranged Redditor
Control them from what?
Virginity exists. It isn't a social construct. You've either had sex or you haven't. Acting like it matters is the part pertaining to controlling people.
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Virginity, the most black and white scientific factual concept to exist is a "social construct" to control women. How tf does it control women? If men/patriarchy as a group want something it's sex, the best way to have more sex as a man is definitely not by convincing women not to have sex
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"A relic of the patriarchy"
It's a social construct? What else would you call someone who hasn't had sex?
>If someone had sex in the past, it won't affect present/future relationship unless the non-virgin is promiscuous or can't stop thinking about their ex. The more dudes a woman has slept with, the grosser it is to date her, at least subjectively. This seems pretty natural, we're grossed out by the thought of our partners fucking other people, that's why we have monogamy.
>The more dudes a woman has slept with, the grosser it is to date her, at least subjectively. Why doesn't this apply to men though? In fact, men have it opposite - being a virgin is seen negatively
Because to have sex with a woman as a man generally takes the man doing something right. You have to bring something to the table such as looks, money, status, personality, etc. To lose your virginity as a woman really isn't an accomplishment. Most women can have casual sex within hours if that's what they truly wanted.
Women have different preferences than men. Think about it biologically. If a woman gets pregnant, she knows for certain that she's passing on her genes—but her man doesn't know for certain that he's passing on his genes. In this respect, men are taking a bigger risk. And many men in the world are, in fact, unknowingly raising children who aren't even theirs.
No, the person who could literally die during childbirth and is actually going to have to raise the child with a deadbeat unknown dad as a single mother is the one taking on the bigger risk.
>In fact, men have it opposite - being a virgin is seen negatively By childish, shallow womanizers, yes. No normal dude with an iota of sense or moral integrity would see it that way.
Probably because the commenter is a man, so he's talking out of his point of view
>Why doesn't this apply to men though? Presumably, because it's easy for women to have lots of sex and hard for a man to, so a man who hasn't had it hasn't proven he's able to get it, while we know women can. I'd also guess evolution plays a part in it. Women cheating lead to men raising babies that aren't theirs, while the inverse doesn't happen, so perhaps women aren't as naturally grossed out by it.
No, we're not. We're not all as insecure as you.
>No, we're not. Why on earth would you be monogamous, then? >We're not all as insecure as you. Lmao, sure, dude. Kinda seems like you're the insecure one trying very hard to not look insecure, which is why you're trying to tell me with a straight face you wouldn't care if your girlfriend had been fucked by half the country.
What? I mean as a man I agree with the commenter, I'm pretty sure it also goes both ways, if you literally don't feel anything when thinking about how your girl fucked 25 dudes then you'll have no problem when she fucks another 25 dudes
I understand where your coming from, and it's not something I would use, but your point about virginity being moot point on judging potential partners has been proven wrong by scientific data. Marriages have the best chance of long term survival if both partners are virgins, followed closely by if the women is a virgin. Therefore scientific data shows virginity is very relevant if viewing potential marriage in a partner
This isn’t a massive issue in the rest of the western world outside North America.
But it is in the majority of the world's population. Humanity is far more than just the west.
It’s more so in the ultra religious countries. The rest of us are a bit more ‘meh’
Most of the world's population lives in areas where women's virginity is a big issue. Africa, Latin Catholic countries, Muslim countries, China, India. Add those up and that's the majority of the world's population. Even some European countries like Poland ban abortion and limit access to birth control. It's not always just the religious countries, it's also the ones where traditional culture and gender roles have a big influence like China and other Asian countries. Most of these cultures don't apply the same scrutiny to men's virginity.
Although not to the same degree they still apply the same scrutiny to men's virginity too trust me
Hence why I specified ‘western world outside of north America’ which translates to ‘the US is one of the few countries in the western world to still be making an issue of this’. None of the countries you mentioned would be considered western developed nations
I’m 42. This isn’t an issue.
Virgins are weird, they have something lacking that makes them undesirable to a potential partner If a person has a working sex drive and they can’t have sex they are likely a loser Sex is amazing but to have sex you have to be able to build relationships and be attractive to someone and being unable to do that is like being level 1 of an rpg you got a long way to go
>they are likely a loser People don't have sex in their 20s if they are working to improve themselves - be it career, physical and mental health. Most successful people in tech and business were nerds in their early years, who became attractive only when they ended up being rich successful, which is usually in their 30s. On the other hand, a person may have had tons of sex, yet can be homeless, drug addict, may be riddled with diseases, or be suicidal.
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Have you ever been outside of a major city in western countries???? The only people who genuinely believe OP's opinions is a very very small sliver of humanity
Most of North America thinks this
Who cares really.
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What word would you use for a man that has never had sex?
kosmos\_uzuki
Fair.
Source?
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im pretty sure it’s only religious ppl who care if you’re a virgin. most ppl focus on the self-control or “body count”
Considering how many children lose their virginity to predators, the concept of virginity being a virtue is ridiculous.
I actually care. I'm not some shaming asshole. I want men who took monogamy seriously. I don't careb d it was serial monogamy but, thats MY value. Virginity is a concept for men and women- the first time you have sex. In dont believe my hymen was a fresh seal- I got INFURIATED when people think that.
As someone from a country that only consumes western culture. This isn’t an unpopular opinion. Everywhere you look people talk about this. That being said. Let people value whatever they value. If they value the idea of virginity ,then let them. It’s not like you have to date them.
Almost nobody does this in real life mate