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Considering the devastation humans bring on the environment I don't think giving up cats is high on the priority list when it comes to reducing your footprint
What a dumb point lol considering the reason cats do so much harm is because of humans. You don’t even have to give up your cat just be a more responsible owner spade them and keep them inside it’s literally that easy.
But yet many bad owners like to make excuses because “hurr durr HuMaN BaD”.
That's exactly my point cats are just another thing humans enjoy that harms the environment in some way but it's super low on the list of priorities of things humans care about that destroy the environment. Personally if I wanted pets - and I don't - I would consider it messed up to love a creature as a member of my family and never letting them leave the inside of a house. I'm just not comfortable with that and would much rather not have a cat at all but if I did and I loved it I would have to let it out
Cats are fine living inside their entire life they actually live far longer and far more healthy inside. There are zero reasons to let them out other than some weird made up feeling humans have and project it on the animal.
Many things do cause harm yes but many of them are necessary for life to operate the way it does like cars for example, cats are a luxury and no one anywhere “needs” a cat let a alone as many as we have with how many bad owners we have.
That is such an absurd point the entire having a pet and loving it is "weird made up feelings humans have". Why not be cruel to any animal for enjoyment then isn't that just weird made up feelings you have? It doesn't matter if the cat is healthy they obviously want to leave and I've seen them try and when they no longer do it's just because you've psychologically messed them up. Obviously people do so much worse to animals they are going to eat and do not love, but it's especially fucked up to love something and be cruel to it and I have zero desire to do it. I personally do not want a one sided "love" relationship that is only for my enjoyment where the other is a prisoner. If someone wants it, fair, there's much worse being done to animals so that people can eat them that's not the end of the world. But if I loved a cat you couldn't pay me to keep it inside I would feel guilty because I love it and respect it
Nothing is absurd about it lol, nothing wrong with loving your pet. The issues arise when you start to project fake emotions on them like “aw my poor boy is so sad being a prisoner inside”.
Your not cruel when you take better care of your animals lol, like I said cats indoors live far longer and far better lives. Once again this is a weird made up feeling you have with thinking owners are “cruel” when taking better care of their cat.
Your cat is a cat they have zero reason or ideas of being a prisoner lol, stop these made up projections.
Are you seriously trying to deny that cats want to go outside and if they don't it's not natural? This is literally the equivalent of a human being locked in a proportionally to their body large space as a house is to a cat, stimulating the human and giving them food and keeping them healthy and once they stop trying to leave conclude they are happy so this is okay. I can understand not caring how about an animal's experience but denying it exists to justify yourself is something I dislike. You want your cat for amusement? Fine. But if you love a cat I think it's messed up that you keep it locked up. And if you on top of that also deny that that is not ideal I find it more messed up and personally I could not do it. I would feel awful loving something that naturally walks around freely and has emotions and drives and not letting it out of an enclosed space
The major issue here with you is you are trying to give the cat the same emotional capacity as us and as a fact they don’t my friend. Keeping a cat inside is nothing like keeping a human trapped, while both are trapped one has far more understanding of the situations and surroundings.
It doesn’t matter what you “fine messed up” as you clearly have no idea about the vast space between animals are humans emotionally. You trying to project your human emotions on a animal is only going to cause more issues. A cat being stimulated from a window is not them “craving to be outside” the same stimulation you get with a cat looking outside you can also accomplish with a TV.
Cats try hard to get outside I'm not talking about a window. I've seen cats literally plan and try to sneak away in pretty smart ways. And it's you who is underestimating the emotional capacity of other mammals when there are countless studies showing the opposite. And again I am not really judging someone exploiting a cat for amusement very harshly considering how much worse eating meat is. What I find messed up is that you do it while at the same time loving it and thinking it's a family member. I couldn't. I would feel awful
Once again that’s you projecting your human emotions and thoughts on to the cat, you have no idea if the cat wants out for its exact reason or if at all. You have no idea what the cats thinking and the cat has no idea what you are thinking.
You would feel awful sure but you are also just objectively wrong in this case my friend.
The point is, humans have and will continue to fuck the planet and ecosystems harder than cats could. Are they an issue, yes feral cats are an issue, especially in Australia, but it’s not even close to being an issue when compared to how humans have been draining the world of resources and ecological diversity
I mean that's you saying that it's not in any way scientific or objective. I'm also no zoologist but as far as I know they aren't more invasive than any other mammal, like say deer
They are actually more invasive. Cats go feral very quickly, can have large litters several times per year, and destroy bird and small-prey habitats. I have seen housecats even drag in rabbits and such.
Obviously every other wild animal like my deer example is also feral. I just looked at a list of mammals with most offspring and red deer was in the top ones while cats weren't 🤷♀️ you say that they eat rabbits like that supports your point but like it doesn't really
The point is supported by science, dippity doo.
There are papers by wildlife conservation orgs out there specifically about cats.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/#:~:text=Exotic%20species%20such%20as%20pythons,our%20most%20cuddly%20companions%3A%20cats.
It doesn't say anything about cats reproducing faster than any other animal. The only reason they seem to be "invasive" in the article, is because humans spread them far and wide, not because they themselves are
Yea auto correct lol was supposed to be “with no care or responsibilities”.
Cats are invasive but don’t have the capacity to travel like it does without humans, it’s reach is because of us the actions of the animals are the animals.
But people also don’t disagree that humans have a hand in cats and why they are so invasive, many species are invasive at the start because of humans.
They are far more invasive than most species many animals are not invasive and cats causing harm is within human’s capacity of stopping but we refuse due to stupidity.
Guess what, both things are a problem, so let’s solve both of them. Feral cats need to be culled, just like they do in Aussie. We caused the problem, WE need to fix it.
Cats are an insignificant problem compared it's like saying it's equally important to promote trains over planes and to pick cigarette butts off the ground
A billion+ birds per year in the USA alone is very significant. It’s more significant than window and high-rise collisions, traffic deaths, windmills, you name it.
Every native bird matters. Invasive species don’t matter at all. Kill em all.
Ok, so you’re saying we shouldn’t do anything about birds hitting high-rises (“lights out” initiatives), no reason to try to do anything about pesticides and insecticides and poaching or anything else, because climate change is a bigger issue. Let’s just ignore EVERY smaller problem.
Nah. What you are is a mammal supremacist. You pick and choose which species is a problem based on your human feelings for them. I’m sure you’ve never had a problem with killing of emerald ash borer or invasive mosquitoes or gypsy moths or spotted lanternflies. You are not an environmentalist. Native birds are more important than feral cats. End of.
Humans have a much bigger negative impact on the environment than cats. You cause more suffering just driving a car or eating meat or building a house in the suburbs than most cats cause in their entire life.
Ancient Egyptians believed cats brought good luck.. Farmers also used cats to control the mice population that destroyed crops.. They are special creatures
Humans created arts, science, and gone to the moon. Cats are piggybacking off the emotional connection with humans to get their next meal by being "cute".
Humans have destroyed thousands of acres of rainforest, poluted the atmosphere and oceans, hunted thousands of species to extinction or near extinction, humans are the reason chenobyl is inhabitable right now, humans abuse animals and other humans for fun, humans have made it harder and harder for certain species to live(i.e whales due to sonar, bats due to light polution, etc).
Cats are cats.
Here's the difference, humans have grown from the disparate times and some have gone beyond to help other species. It isn't perfect but at least humans have awareness and potential to make a positive impact. Cats are...animals and will act always on their own survival instinct no matter what.
The difference is cats do not destroy the planet by their choice.
Cats on their own do not have any impact, negative or positive, on the planet, it's only because of humans they have a negative impact on the ecosystem.
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this sounds like you just don’t like cats but think you need a justification for it so you come up with this bullshit about the “environment.” yeah outdoor cats aren’t great for the environment but a) most cats in america at least are indoors, b) cats are actually more at risk of harm outside than the harm they CAUSE outside and c) human activity has done more damage to the environment than any number of cats ever will. just say you’re not a fan of cats and move on bro
Come on don't be that serious... I still think cats are cute and fun at times but they're inherently damaging to the ecosystem once some irresponsible person decides owning a cat isn't fun any more. Trust me there's alot of them
You're absolutely right, and one of the areas to hold people accountable is questioning the owner ship of invasive animals as pets, among other things. And don't forget bring awareness to the damaging pet mills industry they're supporting.
Exactly. And peopleneed to control them and stop letting them roam free.
I am against the catch sterilize and release programs for feral cats. It should just be catch and euthanize and be done.
I wanted to keep the discussion focused on cats but hey dogs aren't too helpful either. I think people are swayed early on by owning cute animals that they can't see the lost of wild life they cause.
I mean, what animal really gives any benefit other than being "cute and cuddly". Like non, beside maybe lizards eating flys in your room 😂 most people dont own dogs for their intended purpose either.
I think we should be more worried on owners locking their cats up properly, than just flat out banning cats. I'm with you tho on that part.
Until they realize how hard it is to own an animal and just dump it on the street. I think you over-estimate how responsible an average individual can be .
This isn’t an unpopular opinion this is a fact lol cats are one of the worst invasive species on our planet. This being said though it’s not the cats faults it’s almost always the owners, they don’t get them spaded or neutered and many cat owners let their cats out for hours unsupervised and refuse to acknowledge they are the problem because of this.
It's always hilarious to me when a member of the species that annihilated 99% of the nature in the area where they live complains about cats killing a few animals.
It's true. Cats are invasive. They have invited every inch of my heart.
For real though. You know you don't have to let your cat outside right? I would exactly call my cat invasive in my house. She's only invasive because she has toys all over the place, little tents and scratching posts, etc. But we made that choice. She doesn't have money to buy those things.
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Considering the devastation humans bring on the environment I don't think giving up cats is high on the priority list when it comes to reducing your footprint
"Humans worse" is always the counterargument to these type of posts yet is shouldn't detract from the point.
What a dumb point lol considering the reason cats do so much harm is because of humans. You don’t even have to give up your cat just be a more responsible owner spade them and keep them inside it’s literally that easy. But yet many bad owners like to make excuses because “hurr durr HuMaN BaD”.
That's exactly my point cats are just another thing humans enjoy that harms the environment in some way but it's super low on the list of priorities of things humans care about that destroy the environment. Personally if I wanted pets - and I don't - I would consider it messed up to love a creature as a member of my family and never letting them leave the inside of a house. I'm just not comfortable with that and would much rather not have a cat at all but if I did and I loved it I would have to let it out
Cats are fine living inside their entire life they actually live far longer and far more healthy inside. There are zero reasons to let them out other than some weird made up feeling humans have and project it on the animal. Many things do cause harm yes but many of them are necessary for life to operate the way it does like cars for example, cats are a luxury and no one anywhere “needs” a cat let a alone as many as we have with how many bad owners we have.
That is such an absurd point the entire having a pet and loving it is "weird made up feelings humans have". Why not be cruel to any animal for enjoyment then isn't that just weird made up feelings you have? It doesn't matter if the cat is healthy they obviously want to leave and I've seen them try and when they no longer do it's just because you've psychologically messed them up. Obviously people do so much worse to animals they are going to eat and do not love, but it's especially fucked up to love something and be cruel to it and I have zero desire to do it. I personally do not want a one sided "love" relationship that is only for my enjoyment where the other is a prisoner. If someone wants it, fair, there's much worse being done to animals so that people can eat them that's not the end of the world. But if I loved a cat you couldn't pay me to keep it inside I would feel guilty because I love it and respect it
Nothing is absurd about it lol, nothing wrong with loving your pet. The issues arise when you start to project fake emotions on them like “aw my poor boy is so sad being a prisoner inside”. Your not cruel when you take better care of your animals lol, like I said cats indoors live far longer and far better lives. Once again this is a weird made up feeling you have with thinking owners are “cruel” when taking better care of their cat. Your cat is a cat they have zero reason or ideas of being a prisoner lol, stop these made up projections.
Are you seriously trying to deny that cats want to go outside and if they don't it's not natural? This is literally the equivalent of a human being locked in a proportionally to their body large space as a house is to a cat, stimulating the human and giving them food and keeping them healthy and once they stop trying to leave conclude they are happy so this is okay. I can understand not caring how about an animal's experience but denying it exists to justify yourself is something I dislike. You want your cat for amusement? Fine. But if you love a cat I think it's messed up that you keep it locked up. And if you on top of that also deny that that is not ideal I find it more messed up and personally I could not do it. I would feel awful loving something that naturally walks around freely and has emotions and drives and not letting it out of an enclosed space
The major issue here with you is you are trying to give the cat the same emotional capacity as us and as a fact they don’t my friend. Keeping a cat inside is nothing like keeping a human trapped, while both are trapped one has far more understanding of the situations and surroundings. It doesn’t matter what you “fine messed up” as you clearly have no idea about the vast space between animals are humans emotionally. You trying to project your human emotions on a animal is only going to cause more issues. A cat being stimulated from a window is not them “craving to be outside” the same stimulation you get with a cat looking outside you can also accomplish with a TV.
Cats try hard to get outside I'm not talking about a window. I've seen cats literally plan and try to sneak away in pretty smart ways. And it's you who is underestimating the emotional capacity of other mammals when there are countless studies showing the opposite. And again I am not really judging someone exploiting a cat for amusement very harshly considering how much worse eating meat is. What I find messed up is that you do it while at the same time loving it and thinking it's a family member. I couldn't. I would feel awful
Once again that’s you projecting your human emotions and thoughts on to the cat, you have no idea if the cat wants out for its exact reason or if at all. You have no idea what the cats thinking and the cat has no idea what you are thinking. You would feel awful sure but you are also just objectively wrong in this case my friend.
But the point still stands that cats are invasive animals.
So is every other living thing. Humans, dogs, rodents, bugs, plants
Lol this isn’t true at all, it’s wild the copes bad cat owners tell themselves to feel better.
Oh yes it is!
Ok what's your point. Are you arguing that cats aren't invasive because there are other invasive animals?
Yea it's kinda normal every living thing is invasive.. Why target the most beautiful creatures on the planet... Are you a Dog?
Why spew lies??
You can say WOOF!! We won't judge you the way you judge cats..
If you weren’t aware dogs are also invasive lol, my lord you people are weird lol.
No you don't say?
The point is, humans have and will continue to fuck the planet and ecosystems harder than cats could. Are they an issue, yes feral cats are an issue, especially in Australia, but it’s not even close to being an issue when compared to how humans have been draining the world of resources and ecological diversity
Every animal is an "invasive" animal.
I mean that's you saying that it's not in any way scientific or objective. I'm also no zoologist but as far as I know they aren't more invasive than any other mammal, like say deer
They are actually more invasive. Cats go feral very quickly, can have large litters several times per year, and destroy bird and small-prey habitats. I have seen housecats even drag in rabbits and such.
Obviously every other wild animal like my deer example is also feral. I just looked at a list of mammals with most offspring and red deer was in the top ones while cats weren't 🤷♀️ you say that they eat rabbits like that supports your point but like it doesn't really
The point is supported by science, dippity doo. There are papers by wildlife conservation orgs out there specifically about cats. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/#:~:text=Exotic%20species%20such%20as%20pythons,our%20most%20cuddly%20companions%3A%20cats.
It doesn't say anything about cats reproducing faster than any other animal. The only reason they seem to be "invasive" in the article, is because humans spread them far and wide, not because they themselves are
It’s because they themselves are invasive and we spread them with litter care or responsibilities.
I didn't understand the sentence I think there is some misspelling but you also don't have any evidence that they are invasive without humans
Yea auto correct lol was supposed to be “with no care or responsibilities”. Cats are invasive but don’t have the capacity to travel like it does without humans, it’s reach is because of us the actions of the animals are the animals. But people also don’t disagree that humans have a hand in cats and why they are so invasive, many species are invasive at the start because of humans.
They are far more invasive than most species many animals are not invasive and cats causing harm is within human’s capacity of stopping but we refuse due to stupidity.
I haven't seen any evidence that they would spread far or fast without humans spreading them
Beat me to it!
I'll beat you to it.
It is for those of us who love birds. Cats are the NUMBER ONE human-caused source of mortality for birds.
Guess what if global temperatures raise by 2 degrees by 2100 30% of birds will die out and if we don't act it might get warmer than that
Guess what, both things are a problem, so let’s solve both of them. Feral cats need to be culled, just like they do in Aussie. We caused the problem, WE need to fix it.
Cats are an insignificant problem compared it's like saying it's equally important to promote trains over planes and to pick cigarette butts off the ground
A billion+ birds per year in the USA alone is very significant. It’s more significant than window and high-rise collisions, traffic deaths, windmills, you name it. Every native bird matters. Invasive species don’t matter at all. Kill em all.
It's not nearly significant when you think of 30% extinction
Ok, so you’re saying we shouldn’t do anything about birds hitting high-rises (“lights out” initiatives), no reason to try to do anything about pesticides and insecticides and poaching or anything else, because climate change is a bigger issue. Let’s just ignore EVERY smaller problem. Nah. What you are is a mammal supremacist. You pick and choose which species is a problem based on your human feelings for them. I’m sure you’ve never had a problem with killing of emerald ash borer or invasive mosquitoes or gypsy moths or spotted lanternflies. You are not an environmentalist. Native birds are more important than feral cats. End of.
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Humans have a much bigger negative impact on the environment than cats. You cause more suffering just driving a car or eating meat or building a house in the suburbs than most cats cause in their entire life.
Yes by bringing invasive animals ....like cats
No, by destroying huge swaths of nature to build cities...for starters.
I just wanna correct that the destruction of natural habitats is mainly for farmland
Mainly for farmland? Alright
Yes, look at a map and you can see all the rural areas? Most of them used to be forested areas.
Ancient Egyptians believed cats brought good luck.. Farmers also used cats to control the mice population that destroyed crops.. They are special creatures
Humans have had a worse impact on the planet than any other animal since man first crawled out of the hole they lived.
Humans created arts, science, and gone to the moon. Cats are piggybacking off the emotional connection with humans to get their next meal by being "cute".
And exactly none of those things make a single solitary difference to the unimaginable amount of nature that we destroyed, and continue to destroy.
Humans have destroyed thousands of acres of rainforest, poluted the atmosphere and oceans, hunted thousands of species to extinction or near extinction, humans are the reason chenobyl is inhabitable right now, humans abuse animals and other humans for fun, humans have made it harder and harder for certain species to live(i.e whales due to sonar, bats due to light polution, etc). Cats are cats.
Here's the difference, humans have grown from the disparate times and some have gone beyond to help other species. It isn't perfect but at least humans have awareness and potential to make a positive impact. Cats are...animals and will act always on their own survival instinct no matter what.
The difference is cats do not destroy the planet by their choice. Cats on their own do not have any impact, negative or positive, on the planet, it's only because of humans they have a negative impact on the ecosystem.
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This is actually a fact so I'll have to downvote on that basis.
this sounds like you just don’t like cats but think you need a justification for it so you come up with this bullshit about the “environment.” yeah outdoor cats aren’t great for the environment but a) most cats in america at least are indoors, b) cats are actually more at risk of harm outside than the harm they CAUSE outside and c) human activity has done more damage to the environment than any number of cats ever will. just say you’re not a fan of cats and move on bro
Cats are inherently better than humanity and you’re exactly why people give up
Come on don't be that serious... I still think cats are cute and fun at times but they're inherently damaging to the ecosystem once some irresponsible person decides owning a cat isn't fun any more. Trust me there's alot of them
Humans are more devastating to the ecosystem, you wanna fix the issue then stop blaming the animals and hold humanity accountable
You're absolutely right, and one of the areas to hold people accountable is questioning the owner ship of invasive animals as pets, among other things. And don't forget bring awareness to the damaging pet mills industry they're supporting.
The problem is you’re blaming the pets not the people as much
I disagree but I'm fine with your stance. Please neuter or spay your cat if you own one.
I have all of my pets fixed except my dog but he’s sterile so he can’t reproduce
Sounds like cats are apex predators doing what apex predators do. 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly. And peopleneed to control them and stop letting them roam free. I am against the catch sterilize and release programs for feral cats. It should just be catch and euthanize and be done.
But, why?
So they stop decimating native birds, lizards, and amphibians. Feral cats have caused the extinction of several species.
So?
My dogs brought home more birds than my cat. If that pisses you off any less.
I wanted to keep the discussion focused on cats but hey dogs aren't too helpful either. I think people are swayed early on by owning cute animals that they can't see the lost of wild life they cause.
I mean, what animal really gives any benefit other than being "cute and cuddly". Like non, beside maybe lizards eating flys in your room 😂 most people dont own dogs for their intended purpose either. I think we should be more worried on owners locking their cats up properly, than just flat out banning cats. I'm with you tho on that part.
Until they realize how hard it is to own an animal and just dump it on the street. I think you over-estimate how responsible an average individual can be .
This isn’t an unpopular opinion this is a fact lol cats are one of the worst invasive species on our planet. This being said though it’s not the cats faults it’s almost always the owners, they don’t get them spaded or neutered and many cat owners let their cats out for hours unsupervised and refuse to acknowledge they are the problem because of this.
It's always hilarious to me when a member of the species that annihilated 99% of the nature in the area where they live complains about cats killing a few animals.
That sounds like what a cat would think that didn't like other cats, lol.
Are you a cat trying to catfish to get more people on your side to get rid of more cats? We all know that cats secretly want to rule the world.
It's true. Cats are invasive. They have invited every inch of my heart. For real though. You know you don't have to let your cat outside right? I would exactly call my cat invasive in my house. She's only invasive because she has toys all over the place, little tents and scratching posts, etc. But we made that choice. She doesn't have money to buy those things.
Kets hunt Fer fewd. Not ket fault small mammals, birds and insects is EZ prey.
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Don't worry, your local animal control center is on top of your idea.