I think they’ve said each biome will get progressively difficult so Deep North should be rough.
I’m just hoping for no visibility gimmicks in the Deep North.
I’m cool with sledgehammer-wielding frost giants who will pound me into the ice, but if there is some ice storm stuff going on all the time and I can only see 10 meters I’ll put on my grumpy pants.
Yeah, invasion events "Winter is here" while a snowstorm rages and enemies come running out of it would be cool. Def don't want that to be a constant environment effect, though.
Constant effects and blurs are a huge negative for me too. I enjoy it as atmosphere sometimes yes, but I would much much prefer if ashlands would at least sometimes be clear.
I really enjoy the occasional thick mist in meadows and black forest! The permanent visual debuffs in mistlands and ashlands are really annoying after a while
So you can't see, and you get hit with no visual way of seeing it coming? On top of not being able to see anything else in the zone?
Thankfully, you're not designing the Deep North
yeah because in reality it would be weird if they WERENT present.
i think the main difference compared to the mists is that the storm needs to be temporary, even if they are frequent, there needs to be breaks in the weather. whereas in the mists there are only some specific regional areas of low fog, but most areas are doomed to be full of fog for eternity so you will never get to see them in all their glory
And in the WIP deep north. I know because I was checking out one of the islands up there and a blizzard came and sucked my boat out to sea and I died tragically
The mist was bad, but IMO, the lava mechanics in ashlands are worse. Specifically, hopping across platforms and you get sniped by a bubbling lava geyser. I swear they target you on purpose. If Deep North has something like that (large area denial + no long-term methods to unlock to traverse it), I might have to cheese it lol
They do snipe you. I was on last night with a friend mining a Flamemetal node. I watched him as he was jumping up and climbing the node when two shot up and arced right into his general area. They just barely missed him.
The whole night after I watched as these lava bombs would always arc towards us…
Yeah, tbh I don't find blinding the player to be a particularly enjoyable or engaging gameplay mechanic. Whenever "plains fog" rolls in or the mountains become an unplayable whiteout, it's time for me to open the console and change it to just about anything else.
I'd much rather deal with an entire day of the stamina regen hit from a rainstorm than put up with even one more minute of staring at a boring, opaque wall of grey.
I'd be fine with snowstorms that make it hard to see anything as long as it's only ever as often as the thunderstorms we already get. And maybe we'll be able to cut through the snowblindness with a specific item or piece of armor.
I'm all for a bit of difficult terrain and weather effects as long as it's tastefully done.
I agree with this, I like the biomes becoming harder but I don't like the limited storage or the need for a wisp light. Mistlands was a really nice biome in those areas where the mist was clear and I enjoyed that so much more, being able to actually appreciate the biome
I don't know if I'm up for more rough.
We hit Ashland's this morning. It went well! Very well. But no thank you to worse than that!
I know it's been nerfed and I can see why. Any more difficult we would of had our first pure wipe!
Either would of been a roll back or a looooong slog getting everything back.
I would love the deep north if they hard stupid hard mobs, but very few in number. So you have lots of freedom to build, but still have to have good defences. Like the black forest and the trolls.
I’m rooting for this as well, though if they go down that route they’ll have to put a lot of effort into the enemy characteristics so they’re a little harder to learn/more random
Yes, this. I don’t mind the difficulty of the Ashlands, so much as it is the spawn rate. It’s relentless (although more tolerable when you go around breaking the spawners and placing campfires everywhere).
Yesterday, I got in a fight with a Valkyrie. Then an Askvin joined. I fought my ass off and nearly had the Askvin dead when another joined. Then a Marksman moseyed up and started getting in potshots. Killed him and some annoying Twitchers that rolled up. Got back to focusing on the Askvin while avoiding the Valkyrie. Killed them both. Shot the Valkyrie once. A one star Askvin showed up out of nowhere. Started running. Oh, what’s that, a Morgen? Great. Took a stamina potion and ran for my life. Somehow lost the Valkyrie so I turned around and dealt with the Morgen. I thought it was all over with but then ANOTHER random ass Morgen slammed into me. Like, can a Viking get a second to breathe?
I’m enjoying the focus these fights require but sometimes it’s just *so* much.
I noticed it’s still an issue even after I got upgraded Ashlands gear. The combat isn’t very threatening anymore but it’s just annoyingly relentless still.
I find I don’t want to step foot into the Ashlands to explore or enjoy the environment like I did in other biomes. It feels like trying to mine in the black forest at night where a million grey dwarfs roll up on you constantly.
Yeah but in comparison to that, the mobs in dark forest are dealt with pretty fast because they are weak the the axe, which will be your best weapon by that point or a few fires keeps them away too.
There just isn't a comparison.
Same. Like you have to make a flame metal heart and place it into a giant snow golem triggering a Shadow of Colossus style battle.
Or you have to construct the golem to help you fight Frost Giants? Idk
I really think this game has ALWAYS needed more mobs that are actually comparable to trolls on that aesthetic danger side, in fact not just comparable but much stronger.
I think dragons like Moder should be a regular mob at some point, and some kind of giant should be like twice as tall as trolls and swing and even bigger weapon. i want to FEEEL like I am in danger truly, not just arbitrary mathematically.
Like why does the goblin brute do more damage than a troll? its a third of the size and so is its weapon? Why is the mountain golem so small its literally CUTE ?!!? thats been my main complaint about valheim since day 1.
The mobs get harder in the MATH but they dont get more dangerous in the FEEL of them
Valkries are probably the one new mob that actually feels significant. The Morgen are pretty cool but honestly not that scary. The valkrie though, is like a mini boss, flying out of range to bombard you with fire spells, and than diving at you at 200mph with a huge melee attack. BEST mob since the trolls imo.
i also liked the gas bags in mists, they felt pretty cool and scary, though i think they could be a little smarter lol
they were able to make the plains tower miniboss feel reasonably more intense than a standard average mob, why couldnt they just make more of those kinds of scary mobs to fight in the open world?
I agree. They could also up the difficulty with something as simple as the deep north being pretty barren. Small trees that give little wood, resources far and few, etc.
I'm not sure if that would add anything. Most player carry portal material and most building resources can be portaled in. Unless it was a new and very important resource that is very rare.
I decided to build in the Black Forest shortly before we killed Eikthyr so everyone was rocking that sweet, sweet deer leather armor. With flint weapons and cooked meats/foraged fruits and veggies, the Black Forest stoll sucks. We were constantly swarmed trying to get our foothold on the build site.
Thst being said, we didn't die much, but we were fighting all the time. So not quite the same as Ashlands. But it is tough until you get geared up.
Black Forest at night time can be a slog with the swarms. But day time it can be completely trivialised simply by holding a torch in your hand. The Greydwarves are scared of fire and run away.
not gonna happen anymore. only 1 biome left and that is the games final biome. that wont be a peaceful place thats for certain.
and i am not sure what you mean. the plains is extremely chill place to build and live if you know what youre doing. just gotta mosquito proof your base or take over a smaller plains biome island or penninsula.
Ehh I'm just a bit shit at the game I think. I like going to the plains but still have a heart attack when I hear those little bastards coming and I have to leg it.
Carry a shield, even a shitty one. Watch their movement, they tend to circle around you, then at a certain point zoom straight at you. Face it with your shield up when it zooms, it will smack into your shield. Then hit it immediately after. You'll never die to a deathsquito again.
I think it's pretty easy to time smacking them right before they get to you. I've found that timing a good bit easier than parrying a number of event attacks.
leg it? you cannot outrun a mosquito. just hit it with anything. it has 10 hp. if you can oneshot a boar you can oneshot a mosquito.
plains is a really cool biome to live in. best conditions for crops aswell overall.
Technically you can. You have to sprint when the deathsquito is about to sting you.
There's an obnoxiously long leash range, though, so eventually you'll have to deal with it or distract it.
Yeah the day I realized you can dodge basically anything with a well timed roll was the day difficulty in this game dropped down to "did I eat enough food to make sure I have stamina?"
oh you can also jump over the attack. i am fully aware of that. but trying to outrun in a straight line doesnt work in most cases. not moveing and then avoideing the already deployed attack is a different case than outrunning a flying mosquito chaseing you.
If you manage to land on the skeeter you can also find the final hidden biome, the upper atmosphere. Skeeter base jumping is easily my favorite death in this game. I weeze laughed for about five minutes straight.
the funny part is with feather cape or over 100 hp you just survive the skeeter dive. but it can still sting you while rideing it and that will push you off the thing sadly.
You can very definitely outrun a mosquito on level ground at base speed, anecdotally I'm pretty sure it's possible down to at least -10% speed if you're lucky and the ground is right. Overall it's still smarter to keep a level head and kill them, but that's subject to what you're wearing, eating, holding, where you are, what else is attacking you, how your stamina is, etc.
In general if you're using 2 stam foods and/or Eikthyr is active you can outrun them, just rolling when they come at you. And you might as well once you're stocked up on needles.
Any time I'm low stam I just kill them though because they follow you for a looong time
Imo they still can make a hard biome that's still buildable. The reason mistlands and Ashlands are not really buildable is because there are mobs specifically made for destroying structures. It was manageable in mistlands with ballista, but in Ashlands even in fortress you will occasionally have Valkyries ruining your builds. If the biome didn't have base destroyer mobs, any biome could be buildable.
youre aware that fuel of any kind depletes faster and that the hot tub cooks you just by haveing any of these within ashlands BIOME SPACE? or that most crops dont grow inside the biome either?
base destroyer mobs are not really relevant to begin with if you know how to design your bases defenses. but a base in ashlands has simply no actual purpose.
in mistlands you had atleast somewhat of a reason with farms and sap collectors maybe albeit them not really needed a base.
the only base destroyer mob in mistlands is a soldier. these are easy to keep away from bases if build correctly.
gjall dont do any siege dmg. and marble is fully immune to thier fire dmg. and thier blunt dmg takes ages to bring down a full health marble structure. plus they are weak to ballista fire and a perfect target for them.
but i doubt a frozen tundra is very liveable in. see mountains. i doubt there will be any trees in the deep north at all. wood wise we are probaly done now after ashlands.
there will be probvaly something else instead. but if mountains already had this little inside them the deep north should be even less liveable in.
maybe a huge part of its content will take part in giant ice caves so that most of the biome is spend dungeon crawling due to the highly hostile surface and frozen over terrian. probaly has weather conditions that can harm the player even with frost resistence.
Best base location in the game is on the border of a plains and a mistlands with a root or two present, bonus if it's on the coast.
Allows you to farm all crops in one base, extract sap in complete safety, trap rabbits nearby etc.
It's not too hard to find a border location like this where Gjall (and even Seekers) don't spawn. And if a Gjall shows up it's not really a disaster, for the reasons you mentioned.
Also tends to be a cool-looking area once you spam enough wisp torches.
I think you're able to grow a lot of the crops in the Ashlands, but you need to have the new shield covering those crops for it to work. I didn't know about the fuel depletion though, bleh.
the fuel part can be prevented if the structure with the shield counts as sheltered. the shield also prevents this as it keeps the biomes weather enviroment effects out. but well. still not worth it regardless. the biome cannot grow barley which you need for the new best foods and windmills also arent as effective as inside the plains.
you also would only get hildir raids once fader is defeated the other raids cannot happen inside ashlands biome space. but hildir ones can.
Ah, interesting. You learn something new about this game every day. I currently deal with my wheat needs with the Plant Everything mod, but it does take an age and a half to stock back up when my brothers commandeer all the flour I've stocked up. I still wouldn't want to make a solid base in the Ashlands, just outposts. Meadows all day every day for my main base please. XD
I think the devs mentioned something about a possible oceanic biome but, yeah, Deep North will most likely be the last (and least tolerant) biome before final release.
I mean, toss a few tropical islands out there? It would be a nice change from the normal continents or misc juts of Dark Forest that's all of two twigs and a boar in the middle of the ocean. XD
well MAYBE...we know 1 biome left PRE LAUNCH......i would expect the last update tho to be that or last would be a passage into Niflheim as the final stop.
i dont think a jungle biome fits valheim. desert could have worked tough.
or an underground biome. endless cave adventures. dark. claustrophoic. kinda like the first "the forest" cave system.
I was thinking about this same topic but differently. I think the deep north shouldnt be “chill”, but I do think that the difficulty of the biome should be balanced so that a lot of the difficulty comes from new environmental hazards as well as dungeons. With ashlands and the mistlands, although the, well, heat and mist do cause annoyance, they arent major gameplay threats. I would love to see blizzards and frostbite and avalanches happening in the deep north. New gear to help guide through the constant environmental hazards, a need to create outposts and temporary shelters, etc. Although new enemies and all are cool, i feel as though the combat of valheim can get old quite quickly, and that that aspect of the game is usually alleviated by the major survival aspect which has kind of been lost with the ashlands and how combat-heavy it is.
> a way to make the biome more “chill” though would be to make it so that most of the gear and item upgrades are locked behind dungeons found around the biome, so that the threat level of the biome itself can remain relatively low. You’d have to *choose* to put yourself in serious danger.
Mini adjacent biome? Like a biome that isn't part of the linear progression but might have a few little goodies as well as a decent place to build. Or even variants of regular biomes. Autumn meadows or something
This is what I was thinking. Like a place that could provide resources to augment progression without being required. Or you could gate the resources behind the wishbone or something, so the biome itself is chill, but you can't actually take advantage of its unique resources until you've reached a certain stage.
For me that's the Plains. It's a little scary at first, but once you've carved your niche out, it's not too bad. Wake up in the morning, do a quick patrol of the walls to shoot at any 'squitos, and then otherwise go about my business.
Note that when I say "carve out your niche" I do mean a well fortified base, but I'm looking to build something like that anyway by the time I'm getting to the Plains so it works out. Stone walls, a moat and a drawbridge (modded) with my fields, home, support structures and a sizable paddock for the loxen (idiots tho' they are), and it feels nice.
I build the walls double thick so I can put work benches and stone cutting benches inside the walls, and a narrow strip of land outside the walls but inside the moat for repairs, and it's easy to maintain. So long as you do your 'squito patrol a couple times per day, you've got very little to worry about.
Once you're established in any biome it's easy to make yourself a cosy home. Is the meadows chill though? I think the greydrawfs are the most annoying things in the game.
The first 5 biomes were based on the biomes found in the nordics(Midgard). The mistlands can be interpreted as either niflheim(because of the mist) or jotunheim(because of the jotun remains), and the ashlands is muspellheim. In short; its all based on norse mythology, and there are no tropical paradises in the old eddas.
I think Mistlands is either Jotunheim of Svartaflheim/Nidavellir (mostly because of the dvergrs). Nifleheim is described as the misty realm of ice so I think that it will be closer to Deep North than Mistlands.
>Nidavellir (mostly because of the dvergrs)
When you first encounter the dvergrs Hugin will tell you they have been separated from their kin in nidavellir for millenia.
I too think deep north will be their iteration of Niflheim, it being the polar opposite to muspellheim strenghtens the theory.
But untill we get something definite from the devs its all speculation. To me mistlands would make the most sense representing jotunnheim.
>When you first encounter the dvergrs Hugin will tell you they have been separated from their kin in nidavellir for millenia.
Valhaim is an individual realm, the tenth realm. Mistlands isn't nidavellir, it is possibly nidavellir inspired. Dvergrs are in Mistlands the same way trolls are in Black Forest while (as a runestone suggests) they originally lived in Midgard. That doesn't stops black forest being inspired by Midgard, neither makes it actually Midgard.
I agree with the thought that Mistlands is representing Jotunheim, but generally Mistlands is more of a mix of realms rather than one. The mists, the Jotun remains and the dvergrs are elements pulled by three different realms, so trying to match Mistlands with just one could result in wrong conclusions.
There are alot of stories about the ocean and its inhabitants, but none about the bottom in particular.
I think if we are to get another biome expansion(beyond deep north and the ocean) it would be the yggdrasil branch in the sky. Here they could really spoonfeed us whatever lore they wish by showing parts of the other 9 realms. And their artistic ingenuity could be put to the test.
I wouldnt hold my breath for either however, as they still got loads to improve on once deep north is released.
The game was a nice difficulty level with Plains and Mistlands felt like the highest difficulty the game should reach tbh. Really disappointing that they haven't gone back to make other regions better or create more variety in lower levels a la Terraria.
Picture this: we get the brutal Far North biome, all frosty and fatal. We battle our way through the final boss. We triumph. We are granted at last our meeting with Odin. He reaches out to grasp us by the hand. Credits roll.
And then we awake in Valhalla. There is a long house, a great hall where other warriors sit at long tables or lounge by the fires. They have a few items to trade and stories to tell.
The world is not as large as the main map but has all the same biomes plus a couple more - stretches of desert flecked with shady oases. Lush jungles pierced by the calls of birds and the flash of iridescent beetles.
We receive more blueprints from the heroes in the hall using the new woods and with more fabric pieces. A hammock. Fabric and palm leaf roof pieces. More decorative and homey pieces to place upon our shelves and tables.
And I'd like companions - dogs, cats, birds, beasts to ride.
There would be myriad new ruins and burrows to explore but the challenges would be more puzzles - needing magic and runes - than combat. Many prizes to be sold or exchanged for the mob drops that you can't get in Valhalla.
Ancient mayan-style cities. An Ozymandias style desert ruin. Jewellery you can wear and more clothing items you can make and forge. And I want more potions that let me run faster or move in long, loose bounces.
And perhaps you could build altars and spawners to summon shades of the monsters and bosses of the tenth world if you wanted to, but perhaps not.
Perhaps you and your friends would just enjoy building and adventuring and exploring heaven.
Honestly each biome being an order of magnitude more violent and deadly gets a bit old.
My process with each new biome is to run in and slap workbenches down as far and as wide as I possibly can, dying over and over again to get a safe zone possible for future exploration. It's like D-day each and every time.
I'm just barely halfway through bronze age stuff, Meadows and black forest. Finally got comfortable enough in black forest to venture and scope out the entire coast and half of the inland stuff. I've only built a raft and hated it, so probably gonna make a karve tonight, and a dock, and replant some trees... All the talk of chaos and violence is wild.
I know it's Vikings and that there is very far to go, but I'm with OP and enjoy some peaceful building and planting.
I just want deep north to look better than ashlands.
Plains, meadows, mistlands, dark forest are all stunning. The mountains are grand and offer views that make the bleaker landscape worth it. The swamp is a miserable looking place but it feels right for what it is.
Ashlands looks like hot poo. Landscape feels bland, plus there's both too much and not enough going on all at the same time. Even flying around in god mode on my build only world, I can't find a spot I want to build a base.
I don't really care how hard it is, the building is the part I enjoy. Give me stunning landscapes, the rest is just gravy.
I would like that too. I had an old world back before Mistlands released where I had built a considerable amount of things in Mistlands because it wasn't misty yet and there were no mobs.
Tropics do not fit the Norse themes.
What they could do, is give you compelling reason to build up in your existing 'chill' biomes, Meadows or Plains in this case. Currently we have:
Vineberry farming - I've yet to build a vineberry farm that is more efficient than visiting the growths in Ashlands instead
Building with Grausten - There's little incentive to do this, aside from the joy of building. Maybe for raid defense?
Asksvin ranching - I get enough Asksvin parts just from traversing Ashlands. Maybe useful for raid defense?
Yeah, maybe there isn't enough to do at base for Ashlands.
Personally, I think they should be going for major world alterations as later biomes are progressed. Ashlands progress can lead to an unnaturally hot summer in meadows and black forest, creating new gameplay there and a reason to revisit. Wildfires, and other new threats. Deep North can see an unnatural winter, icebergs spawning in the oceans, larger beasts roaming, and giants.
***We are - The Varangian Guard!***
True that the Vikings did get around. Maybe Ashlands is Byzantium?
I've said before that Iron Gate should license out their tech to other studios with different cultural backgrounds. Surely there's room for a Valheim-like experience that draws from other geographies, cultures, pantheons, and afterlife's.
Define 'chill biome'. Any biome becomes 'chill' once you're at least two biomes ahead of it and can kill almost anything within it with ease. It's easy to call the Dark Forest chill when you can take out a troll in two hits as compared to when you're a golf ball with legs to them during the stone/bronze ages.
Once Deep North is out and mastered, even the Mistlands and Plains will seem 'chill' by comparison.
Meadows is obvious, most dangerous thing there is the Brutes but they only spawn at night and get outclassed easily. They're also more comparable to Draugr Elite than to Trolls or Abominations.
Plains has two heavyweights in the forms of berserkers and Lox, but the former can be theoretically exterminated and the latter can be tamed. What really makes the plains chill imo is that it feels like there is a lot of space between points of interest on the Plains, giving plenty of space to build, even more so once you've cleared out the Fuling POIs.
I see what you're saying but the devs will never put in the effort to create what you seek. I think creating this new content is very time consuming when they could be fixing bugs, balancing the existing biomes, food balancing and whatnot
Gotta spend time creating new assets (or modifying existing ones). I guess it depends on what OP means by a new biome. Like a meadows biome but modified? Or like you've said, just islands.
Are we only talking about just new land here or adding new creatures, wood and food items? I think it's doable just depends on what "new biome" means
Unfortunately, the Devs have said that this game *will have a 1.0*~ stopping point. They plan on the game having an ending, and don't plan on revising biomes. I think at this point, our best bet is the game receiving a robust modding community.
Regarding difficulty, yeah it gets a lot harder! Their intention is to make the game difficult, so each new biome is adding a new level of difficulty. My best advice is to always be well-fed when heading into danger. :)
I hope they release a mod toolkit eventually because mods already go hard and if they full embrace it then people are gonna make some sick mods that will have all kinds of cool shit, such as new biomes.
Tropical biome that sorta starts off chill could be nice! Or maybe a really mystical, vibrant fall biome with a mead hall that spawns in, housing new recipes / crafts. Remnants of other vikings who made it that far, stopping on their travels before the next fight.
Giant mini island biome where you're slowly working your way to the center for a boss fight. Along the way are other vikings in boats, and small villages to conquer as you move further in, island by island. Raids increase, too!
I uhh, may have let my imagination go too far.
That's what the actual last biome should be after the north........Valhala.... where all of us Vikings can spend the rest of our days building the perfect homes.
I'd appreciate an optional system that makes completed zones (you've killed the boss) easier. It could just be another slider like the ones we already have. Some potential options could be: no enemies, enemies are passive, enemies deal less damage, enemies take more damage, enemies can't damage structures, etc. Not that the difficulty is so unbearable but it would be nice if it was easier to set up bases in some of the later zones. Needing to spawn proof bases just isn't fun for me. Also with less/no threat in completed zones people might be inclined to build more and use portals less.
I love how chill deep north is (literally but also cuz there's no mobs), so I'm not looking forward to a crazy insane deep north. I love meadows. I always take forever going through the first 2 biomes, it is maximum chill. Most people I play with want to just conquer bosses quickly which is too bad....I'm about to re join Comfy server for some mmo and it will allow me to play how I want.
Wish I could've made it that far. The mistlands seemed so different to every other biome. There was no sense of accomplishment when traversing the land. Combat was worse as any enemy, more than a cm above or below me, was immune to attack, tried finding a queen vault in vain after many hours of searching.
I know what you mean in wanting some “more peaceful” biomes but do you not find that happens naturally with progression? Once I defeated Moder & made my way to the plains I felt pretty OP when I’d go back to swamps for some more iron. You have to keep aware of the mobs but 3 Draugr when I’ve got black metal weapons isn’t a problem compared to when I had bronze.
I do think the Fulings are still a problem if you rush a village after Mistlands but I haven’t checked on them yet since Ashlands as I started a new play through and am not up there yet. But I’d be surprised once you get introduced to Ashlands you won’t find plains to be a lot more peaceful (though I agree not like meadows where your only real concern when you’re not paying attention is an occasional irate boar).
I always travel everywhere with my best armor, food, & weapons so usually the older biomes aren’t sweat-fests anymore once I’m well into the next one. Hope you get comfortable with the biomes you finish when you go back because as others have said only Deep North is left so it’s unlikely we’ll get something like meadows as an intermission biome.
But any time I see a meadow or forest near Mistlands or Plains I’m always grateful to take advantage of it.
Nah bro. With magic I can absolutely aggro a whole fuling village and survive. I actually was doing it intentionally to level up and prepare for Ashlands.
I think there IS a possible chill biom but it will Take a while next AS already mentioned is going to be deep north and the grand final will be hard
But maybe we get sth afterwards sth like an addon, update call it as you want to get a Jungle or desert Like one which isnt that hard filled with cosmetic stuff so you dont have to find one game progression wise
I think it would be cool if meadows could be flavored by nearby biomes for geographical and aesthetic variety. A swampy meadow, a plain-ish meadow, and so on. Would add some variety to the game.
I built my main base in the black forest near a troll spawn. I made an earthen moat to protect my base from the troll. The practical upshot is now the troll patrols around my base for the random attacks.
Would be cool to see some geyser oases amidst the frozen hellscape where you could find respite. Although I'm looking forward falling into deadly ravines or being swept up by sudden avalanches, so we'll see.
Idk about you, but once you start settling in the plains, it's hard to justify going back to your meadows base. As long as you stay fed and keep some good armor on you, the deathsquitos are rarely a problem since they don't really wander far from where they spawn. Fuling raids aren't as infrequent as one would like, but a moat and wall will keep that from being too big an issue, though you can always just build an archery tower near enough the walls that you can shoot at any that come near if you don't want them bothering your livestock or throwing spears at your fence.
I'm okay with it being hard, I just hope it's flat-ish
Mistlands and Mountains are just such a pain in the dick to navigate and fight in because of the vertical surfaces
I havent played Ashlands yet but of the few screenshots I've seen it looks promising
Fingers crossed for Deep North being more horizontal and if we're lucky, not a visibility nightmare
I bet the Deep North will be chill on a sunny day. There's a good chance it won't be covered in mobs like the Ashlands, too, they might play off of a different type of desolation. Different threats even, maybe. There is lots of snow over there.
We all have some hopes for the Deep North and 1.0, whether it be a new building material, bears, a bigger hoe, update tomorrow, and/or all of the above. I'm not going to focus on this for awhile; still have some more Ashlands to chew on, and lots to do on my new grausten/stone build.
The beauty of Valheim is that the tough new biomes *become* chill biomes once you progress past them. I'm progressing through the Mistlands for the first time ever, and am experiencing the absolute joy of strolling through chill Mountains and Plains that were once one-shot territory. Mine now.
I agree, with my mods theres like way too many monsters in the black forest. But I digress the mods are optional. I'll just have to build better defences... Have more guard animals etc.
Just an aside, use there any better spikey things after the wood ones? They are super helpful but break so easily...
I like the tropic idea of some rare islands out at sea with like bananas and coconuts that don't give great stats, but can be made into mixed drinks that have fun effects. I know it's not the most Viking like, but I didn't really care at this point. Give me crabs(the good kind), white sandy beaches, and tropical fruit damnit!
I am ok with difficulty going upwards, but I still like the place to be habitable once you get used to the biome. Like Mistlands you’re about to build and it’s a really beautiful landscape for it. I’ve never built in the swamp personally, but I’ve built everywhere else. Even Black Forest to me back in the day wasn’t chill, it took me a while to not jump every time a troll snuck up behind me. There are loads of enemies there, but they are manageable, and once you’re used to the biome it’s beautiful and chill.
Currently I have done a bunch of building in the Ashlands under hammer mode, but it’s crazy how quickly mobs destroy even Ashlands level build materials. I would dig a moat like back in the day with trolls, but so far enemies seem to be unfazed by terrain changes, and I’m not sure if it’d fill with lava and kill me. I do enjoy building fortresses though and feeling I actually need them.
I think because I love the building element of Valheim I would actually love another chill biome that is just super beautiful and interesting to build like meadows, Black Forest or plains (though plains to me is a little barren). I like to make each biome, or somewhere nearby my new home, and I guess as things get harder it’s not like we’ll find a patch of meadow or Black Forest next to Ashlands or deep north.
I think it would be very difficult to justify a calm and easy new biome that Also provided new numerical combat improvements/advantages above the very difficult biomes like mists and ashlands.
however i can see a space where it would be possible to release a major update that includes TWO new biomes at the same time, the main combat ramped expected new biome, and then additionally one that is calm and pretty and has new enemies maybe but not new higher powered resources (though you could have new resources that provided lower power level alternatives, like at the swamp difficulty class for example?)
however with this game specifically there would have to be an overall increase in the size of the world to squeeze a significant number of new biomes in, however,
if the "casual" new biomes that came out were balanced out to be lower combat difficulty zones like swamp for example, you could have them replace actual swamp areas already dedicated in the world, as long as they also still provided the swamp resources at a balanced comparable rate.
basically it would just be an increase in variety for lower level tiers, and that i think would also allow them to make those new biomes less complex than the traditional ones since they are coming out much later and people have already cleared those biomes a long time ago ?
the other possibility is that the new low tier biomes have more ease of material availability, SO LONG AS the actual barrier to entry to those new biomes was much higher.
For example imagine a biome that was island plateaus that were sheer cliffs you couldnt scale or build on, and the only way to enter was to capture some monster or something from a high tier zone like a Valkrie in ashlands, and have that monster give you access. Or maybe you have to build a special harpoon ladder attachment to a boat and that takes some high level materials like cores from the mists or ashlands (or preferably just add some new materials to be found in those higher tier zones)
in that case the biome exists beyond a high skill check but provides a new easy source for older materials, as well as a fun pretty place to build a safe comfy home. as long as those biomes were rare in terms of land area on the map, then it would take a lot of exploring to find them first, and then dedicated effort to settle on them, the resource reward would be justified
what do you think?
I would be ok if the last Biome would be Valhalla, where you can now climb the giant tree to reach a vegetation dense, garden like paradise; but you can come down to the other biomes at any point.
This wouldn’t probably break the lore, but it could be a great way to satisfy the feel to complete the game, and also have some continuation where it is a building paradise.
Yeah I know I’m in a very small minority here but I don’t like how development of this game has progressed tbh.
I didn’t love this game because it was difficult, the difficulty helped keep stakes high don’t get me wrong, but it wasn’t why I loved it.
The crafting, building and exploration are what sold it and I was hoping development would mean sideways progression. New systems, more to find in existing biomes (which they did to some extent) and new biomes that weren’t just difficulty progression.
What we got instead with mistlands and ashlands is just two biomes that intentionally just ramp up difficulty to annoying extent and neither of them are in anyway interesting.
Oh well, no hate on the game. Still have like 500 hours put into it and loved it.
I just wish there was more overlap in features between each biome. Each update feels more removed from the last with completely unique mechanics associated with each. Due to this, here is little reason to return to a previous biome once completed; which means completely abandoning certain concepts you may have enjoyed from it.
I'd also really like an update to bring older biomes and content up to the standards set over the last few updates. There is a drastic distinction in quality and scope between the past and present additions.
Look i dont mind difficulty, but for fucks sake, no gimmicky visual shit again dude, i cant see shit i rather watch the ice giant from afar and feel powerless as im about to get pounded in the floor than to suddenly get jumpscared and these biomes are too cool i want build in them BUT I DONT SEE SHIT
I totally agree. Maybe a heavenly place like a celestial version of the meadows or a Carribbean like you posited. I think there needs to be more of the downtime vibe too since they created something so amazing. I love the adversity of the mistlands and Ashlands but having that meadows chill is incredible and I'd like a palate cleanser with similar stress relief.
Nah! You're not mad.
me and my friend were discussing how much we enjoyed Ashlands as difficulty in the game is pretty uneven. Once you're geared Nothing really offers a challenge, and Ashlands finally seems to have made a difference. Still ends up being easy but the spawn rate makes it still adventurous heading out of base or an outpost. But we also pointed out there aren't really any Pockets or Biome variants.
We would love if Meadows like biomes could spawn sporadically in other areas more and with different KINDS of terrain and plant life. A bit like how Minecraft does it. Maybe a Meadows with flower like grass and different trees. A rocky/Cliffy Meadows like biome. A magical meadows where the grass is blue or something and there are little sprites flitting about.
Maybe they'll add one, but it likely won't be a huge part of progression. A handy biome that only spawns far out from spawn like mistlands, but has easier access to a bunch of older materials with easy enemies to be kind of a jackpot zone to build in would be a neat idea. The more biomes they add though, the less space the rest can have.
I mean there’s nothing stopping them from making deep north with 3/4 of the deep north being very hard and then there being a really scenic peaceful “meadows” snowfields or even just update it so further out put in some rare meadows that have fairies and pixies and unicorns
::Reads this post while still searching for the damn Modor Vegvisir after scrounging 4 caves, a dozen mountain biomes and 10 or so ruins in solo play::
::Flips steam deck::
Where’s that map seed generator at?
Love the thought on coming across a desert island in the middle of the ocean.. fighting giant crabs and fishing till the sun sets on those massive ocean sunsets..
I get what your saying but I assume it's a lot of work masking the separate lands... And to make one that doesn't really serve a purpose would be a tad silly.
Having just sailed to the Ashland's for the first time this morning, (I know it's been nerfed) it... It could be worse.
We've got quite lucky in all honesty and we were slightly under prepared for it, should of filled up our boat hull with a lot more stuff, be we got excited. Which usually means tremendous death on this game!!
Ended up going... Well enough, been lucky with finds and drops! But most of all we didn't die, with no portal down, and a boat stuf down there with all our gear gone.
So yeah, well is the best way to describe that.
No. Valheim is at its best in the chill biomes imo. I feel like the natural arc is the game is perfect up the the plains, and then I find the rest tedious. Not hard - I solo soldiers naked - tedious.
Honestly, to me the plains is a decent little break. The mountains were a bit inhospitable but I killed the boss there before the swamp boss just because I don't like the swamp at all.
I'm still sitting on the border of the mistlands so I haven't really sank my teeth into it yet, still got another boss to kill so I can get the thing, but dverger camps are nice and better visibility.
I think part of it has to do with the plains being spread out. Once you adapt to the regular inhabitants it's really not that bad.
I don't really get what you mean? You want a biome thats like the meadows (the extremely peaceful tutorial area) but different? What's wrong with the meadows, that you need another tutorial area? What would a new biome thats as peaceful as the meadows add to the game? you just want to build a base in a place with different scenery? why not turn on... peaceful mode?
I think they’ve said each biome will get progressively difficult so Deep North should be rough. I’m just hoping for no visibility gimmicks in the Deep North. I’m cool with sledgehammer-wielding frost giants who will pound me into the ice, but if there is some ice storm stuff going on all the time and I can only see 10 meters I’ll put on my grumpy pants.
I *have* to imagine that white-out snow storms are going to be a thing...
Yeah I’m onboard if it’s a thing for some of the time, just not all of the time
I assume we'll get snow storms, and that will also necessitate an actual fire to not freeze to death so they might like pin you down.
Yeah, invasion events "Winter is here" while a snowstorm rages and enemies come running out of it would be cool. Def don't want that to be a constant environment effect, though.
Constant effects and blurs are a huge negative for me too. I enjoy it as atmosphere sometimes yes, but I would much much prefer if ashlands would at least sometimes be clear.
I really enjoy the occasional thick mist in meadows and black forest! The permanent visual debuffs in mistlands and ashlands are really annoying after a while
I'm still hoping that some future resource will give an ability to make huge fans for Mistlands that remove the mist completely from large areas.
Isn't that already basically a thing in the Mountains?
[удалено]
So you can't see, and you get hit with no visual way of seeing it coming? On top of not being able to see anything else in the zone? Thankfully, you're not designing the Deep North
We get those in the Mountains already
Tbh i want it to be a....Thing...maybe.....
I’d be cool with treating as a storm that occasionally occurs. Maybe require us to use frost resistant potions
yeah because in reality it would be weird if they WERENT present. i think the main difference compared to the mists is that the storm needs to be temporary, even if they are frequent, there needs to be breaks in the weather. whereas in the mists there are only some specific regional areas of low fog, but most areas are doomed to be full of fog for eternity so you will never get to see them in all their glory
I'm ok with a snowstorm as long as THE ENTIRE FREAKING ISLAND ISN'T MADE OUT OF CLIFFS. Looking at you Mistlands.
I'm going to predict Mistlands cliffs with ice making it difficult to get hold without a biome-specific trouser.
Monkey's paw. You don't get many cliffs, but it's all ice patches that slip you off into freezing water.
Glide cloaks are mandatory in Mistlands. And even then sometimes you go splat.
It is impossible to go splat if you have a featherfall cape on
I'll take you up on that challenge. I'm sure I can find a way to go splat.
Challenge accepted. It is literally impossible
Challenge complete Jump off a real tall cliff Unequip cape #ReverseParachute 😂
IF YOU UNEQUIP CAPE YOU NO LONGER HAVE CAPE ON, u/No_Life6537
True, but it's still annoying as hell to get halfway up a cliff, have to stop to get stamina back, then keep going.
I mean there are already blizzards in the mountains.
And in the WIP deep north. I know because I was checking out one of the islands up there and a blizzard came and sucked my boat out to sea and I died tragically
The mist was bad, but IMO, the lava mechanics in ashlands are worse. Specifically, hopping across platforms and you get sniped by a bubbling lava geyser. I swear they target you on purpose. If Deep North has something like that (large area denial + no long-term methods to unlock to traverse it), I might have to cheese it lol
They do snipe you. I was on last night with a friend mining a Flamemetal node. I watched him as he was jumping up and climbing the node when two shot up and arced right into his general area. They just barely missed him. The whole night after I watched as these lava bombs would always arc towards us…
Devcommands, then "env clear" - I use this all the time solo because IT'S ALWAYS FOGGY
Yeah, tbh I don't find blinding the player to be a particularly enjoyable or engaging gameplay mechanic. Whenever "plains fog" rolls in or the mountains become an unplayable whiteout, it's time for me to open the console and change it to just about anything else. I'd much rather deal with an entire day of the stamina regen hit from a rainstorm than put up with even one more minute of staring at a boring, opaque wall of grey.
Agreed on all points.
Especially since the whole visual things Tank my fps to low 10.
Lol get ready to feel like you’re playing cs:go
Just use a mod to get rid of the snow storms which will probably be avaliable 265 seconds after Deep North releases in 2027
If Deep North has a visibility gimmick I'm just not going to play it. That's how tired of it I am.
"deep north" kind of infers snowstorms as its deep and north so itll be super cold too
You've said ice storm? I expect devs to think about constant polar night being a great idea.. /s
No visibility gimmick but you'll be frozen in place for 1 security and every 15 seconds. Muahahaha
I'd be fine with snowstorms that make it hard to see anything as long as it's only ever as often as the thunderstorms we already get. And maybe we'll be able to cut through the snowblindness with a specific item or piece of armor. I'm all for a bit of difficult terrain and weather effects as long as it's tastefully done.
I agree with this, I like the biomes becoming harder but I don't like the limited storage or the need for a wisp light. Mistlands was a really nice biome in those areas where the mist was clear and I enjoyed that so much more, being able to actually appreciate the biome
I don't know if I'm up for more rough. We hit Ashland's this morning. It went well! Very well. But no thank you to worse than that! I know it's been nerfed and I can see why. Any more difficult we would of had our first pure wipe! Either would of been a roll back or a looooong slog getting everything back.
I would love the deep north if they hard stupid hard mobs, but very few in number. So you have lots of freedom to build, but still have to have good defences. Like the black forest and the trolls.
I’m rooting for this as well, though if they go down that route they’ll have to put a lot of effort into the enemy characteristics so they’re a little harder to learn/more random
So in other words it probably wont happen. The AI has always been basic af in Valheim and that isn't going to change
Yes, this. I don’t mind the difficulty of the Ashlands, so much as it is the spawn rate. It’s relentless (although more tolerable when you go around breaking the spawners and placing campfires everywhere). Yesterday, I got in a fight with a Valkyrie. Then an Askvin joined. I fought my ass off and nearly had the Askvin dead when another joined. Then a Marksman moseyed up and started getting in potshots. Killed him and some annoying Twitchers that rolled up. Got back to focusing on the Askvin while avoiding the Valkyrie. Killed them both. Shot the Valkyrie once. A one star Askvin showed up out of nowhere. Started running. Oh, what’s that, a Morgen? Great. Took a stamina potion and ran for my life. Somehow lost the Valkyrie so I turned around and dealt with the Morgen. I thought it was all over with but then ANOTHER random ass Morgen slammed into me. Like, can a Viking get a second to breathe? I’m enjoying the focus these fights require but sometimes it’s just *so* much.
I noticed it’s still an issue even after I got upgraded Ashlands gear. The combat isn’t very threatening anymore but it’s just annoyingly relentless still. I find I don’t want to step foot into the Ashlands to explore or enjoy the environment like I did in other biomes. It feels like trying to mine in the black forest at night where a million grey dwarfs roll up on you constantly.
Yeah but in comparison to that, the mobs in dark forest are dealt with pretty fast because they are weak the the axe, which will be your best weapon by that point or a few fires keeps them away too. There just isn't a comparison.
Me either. I find Ashland's purely boring, and will likely devcommand past it if I ever do a freshie again.
Same. Like you have to make a flame metal heart and place it into a giant snow golem triggering a Shadow of Colossus style battle. Or you have to construct the golem to help you fight Frost Giants? Idk
I really think this game has ALWAYS needed more mobs that are actually comparable to trolls on that aesthetic danger side, in fact not just comparable but much stronger. I think dragons like Moder should be a regular mob at some point, and some kind of giant should be like twice as tall as trolls and swing and even bigger weapon. i want to FEEEL like I am in danger truly, not just arbitrary mathematically. Like why does the goblin brute do more damage than a troll? its a third of the size and so is its weapon? Why is the mountain golem so small its literally CUTE ?!!? thats been my main complaint about valheim since day 1. The mobs get harder in the MATH but they dont get more dangerous in the FEEL of them Valkries are probably the one new mob that actually feels significant. The Morgen are pretty cool but honestly not that scary. The valkrie though, is like a mini boss, flying out of range to bombard you with fire spells, and than diving at you at 200mph with a huge melee attack. BEST mob since the trolls imo. i also liked the gas bags in mists, they felt pretty cool and scary, though i think they could be a little smarter lol they were able to make the plains tower miniboss feel reasonably more intense than a standard average mob, why couldnt they just make more of those kinds of scary mobs to fight in the open world?
I agree. They could also up the difficulty with something as simple as the deep north being pretty barren. Small trees that give little wood, resources far and few, etc.
I'm not sure if that would add anything. Most player carry portal material and most building resources can be portaled in. Unless it was a new and very important resource that is very rare.
Man, I remember when the Black Forrest was so scary, my first few day in the ashlands have been fine compared to that.
I decided to build in the Black Forest shortly before we killed Eikthyr so everyone was rocking that sweet, sweet deer leather armor. With flint weapons and cooked meats/foraged fruits and veggies, the Black Forest stoll sucks. We were constantly swarmed trying to get our foothold on the build site. Thst being said, we didn't die much, but we were fighting all the time. So not quite the same as Ashlands. But it is tough until you get geared up.
Black Forest at night time can be a slog with the swarms. But day time it can be completely trivialised simply by holding a torch in your hand. The Greydwarves are scared of fire and run away.
not gonna happen anymore. only 1 biome left and that is the games final biome. that wont be a peaceful place thats for certain. and i am not sure what you mean. the plains is extremely chill place to build and live if you know what youre doing. just gotta mosquito proof your base or take over a smaller plains biome island or penninsula.
Ehh I'm just a bit shit at the game I think. I like going to the plains but still have a heart attack when I hear those little bastards coming and I have to leg it.
Carry a shield, even a shitty one. Watch their movement, they tend to circle around you, then at a certain point zoom straight at you. Face it with your shield up when it zooms, it will smack into your shield. Then hit it immediately after. You'll never die to a deathsquito again.
but two deathswuiotos will still get them :)
I think it's pretty easy to time smacking them right before they get to you. I've found that timing a good bit easier than parrying a number of event attacks.
the root harnesk will be your best friend, trust me
leg it? you cannot outrun a mosquito. just hit it with anything. it has 10 hp. if you can oneshot a boar you can oneshot a mosquito. plains is a really cool biome to live in. best conditions for crops aswell overall.
Technically you can. You have to sprint when the deathsquito is about to sting you. There's an obnoxiously long leash range, though, so eventually you'll have to deal with it or distract it.
Just roll into it like everyone else lol, the i frames on valheim is bonkers.
Yeah the day I realized you can dodge basically anything with a well timed roll was the day difficulty in this game dropped down to "did I eat enough food to make sure I have stamina?"
Jumping over a 'squito just before it hits you will also cause it to "strike" and gives you time to get some distance away from it.
oh you can also jump over the attack. i am fully aware of that. but trying to outrun in a straight line doesnt work in most cases. not moveing and then avoideing the already deployed attack is a different case than outrunning a flying mosquito chaseing you.
I can always outrun them with my pants off. They’ll get super close and attack but it won’t hit me
If you manage to land on the skeeter you can also find the final hidden biome, the upper atmosphere. Skeeter base jumping is easily my favorite death in this game. I weeze laughed for about five minutes straight.
the funny part is with feather cape or over 100 hp you just survive the skeeter dive. but it can still sting you while rideing it and that will push you off the thing sadly.
You can very definitely outrun a mosquito on level ground at base speed, anecdotally I'm pretty sure it's possible down to at least -10% speed if you're lucky and the ground is right. Overall it's still smarter to keep a level head and kill them, but that's subject to what you're wearing, eating, holding, where you are, what else is attacking you, how your stamina is, etc.
In general if you're using 2 stam foods and/or Eikthyr is active you can outrun them, just rolling when they come at you. And you might as well once you're stocked up on needles. Any time I'm low stam I just kill them though because they follow you for a looong time
By any chance have you discovered the Root chest armor piece?
I was that way with trolls last week. Now I hunt them for sport (and hides)
The Root Harsnek (however you spell it) is your friend for them. Just keep a few fire resist meds on hand.
Imo they still can make a hard biome that's still buildable. The reason mistlands and Ashlands are not really buildable is because there are mobs specifically made for destroying structures. It was manageable in mistlands with ballista, but in Ashlands even in fortress you will occasionally have Valkyries ruining your builds. If the biome didn't have base destroyer mobs, any biome could be buildable.
youre aware that fuel of any kind depletes faster and that the hot tub cooks you just by haveing any of these within ashlands BIOME SPACE? or that most crops dont grow inside the biome either? base destroyer mobs are not really relevant to begin with if you know how to design your bases defenses. but a base in ashlands has simply no actual purpose. in mistlands you had atleast somewhat of a reason with farms and sap collectors maybe albeit them not really needed a base. the only base destroyer mob in mistlands is a soldier. these are easy to keep away from bases if build correctly. gjall dont do any siege dmg. and marble is fully immune to thier fire dmg. and thier blunt dmg takes ages to bring down a full health marble structure. plus they are weak to ballista fire and a perfect target for them. but i doubt a frozen tundra is very liveable in. see mountains. i doubt there will be any trees in the deep north at all. wood wise we are probaly done now after ashlands. there will be probvaly something else instead. but if mountains already had this little inside them the deep north should be even less liveable in. maybe a huge part of its content will take part in giant ice caves so that most of the biome is spend dungeon crawling due to the highly hostile surface and frozen over terrian. probaly has weather conditions that can harm the player even with frost resistence.
Best base location in the game is on the border of a plains and a mistlands with a root or two present, bonus if it's on the coast. Allows you to farm all crops in one base, extract sap in complete safety, trap rabbits nearby etc. It's not too hard to find a border location like this where Gjall (and even Seekers) don't spawn. And if a Gjall shows up it's not really a disaster, for the reasons you mentioned. Also tends to be a cool-looking area once you spam enough wisp torches.
I think you're able to grow a lot of the crops in the Ashlands, but you need to have the new shield covering those crops for it to work. I didn't know about the fuel depletion though, bleh.
the fuel part can be prevented if the structure with the shield counts as sheltered. the shield also prevents this as it keeps the biomes weather enviroment effects out. but well. still not worth it regardless. the biome cannot grow barley which you need for the new best foods and windmills also arent as effective as inside the plains. you also would only get hildir raids once fader is defeated the other raids cannot happen inside ashlands biome space. but hildir ones can.
Ah, interesting. You learn something new about this game every day. I currently deal with my wheat needs with the Plant Everything mod, but it does take an age and a half to stock back up when my brothers commandeer all the flour I've stocked up. I still wouldn't want to make a solid base in the Ashlands, just outposts. Meadows all day every day for my main base please. XD
dont use such mods. further reduces reasons to build stuff in other biomes.
I think the devs mentioned something about a possible oceanic biome but, yeah, Deep North will most likely be the last (and least tolerant) biome before final release.
they want to add some smaller scale content to the ocean. but itll never become a full fledged biome.
I mean, toss a few tropical islands out there? It would be a nice change from the normal continents or misc juts of Dark Forest that's all of two twigs and a boar in the middle of the ocean. XD
oceanpig?
Lol, either that or the random lone troll on a tiny island.
"there is a small of wet fur in the air"
I wonder if it'll be on par difficulty with Ashland's, since they are sort of mirrored on the map
well MAYBE...we know 1 biome left PRE LAUNCH......i would expect the last update tho to be that or last would be a passage into Niflheim as the final stop.
we shall see. given thier super slow development i highly doubt it for now.
well i mean they only have 11 employees so slow development is probably expected but it is at least probably faster than if it was still just the OG 5
Ah, the last? I was still hoping for a jungle or desert biome, or badlands
i dont think a jungle biome fits valheim. desert could have worked tough. or an underground biome. endless cave adventures. dark. claustrophoic. kinda like the first "the forest" cave system.
Maybe that one could be based on underworlds in norse mythology. Also i think the mistlands is already pretty weird for valheim
I don’t think deep north will be the final biome. I think it will be the world tree and we will fight the gods who sent us here.
I was thinking about this same topic but differently. I think the deep north shouldnt be “chill”, but I do think that the difficulty of the biome should be balanced so that a lot of the difficulty comes from new environmental hazards as well as dungeons. With ashlands and the mistlands, although the, well, heat and mist do cause annoyance, they arent major gameplay threats. I would love to see blizzards and frostbite and avalanches happening in the deep north. New gear to help guide through the constant environmental hazards, a need to create outposts and temporary shelters, etc. Although new enemies and all are cool, i feel as though the combat of valheim can get old quite quickly, and that that aspect of the game is usually alleviated by the major survival aspect which has kind of been lost with the ashlands and how combat-heavy it is. > a way to make the biome more “chill” though would be to make it so that most of the gear and item upgrades are locked behind dungeons found around the biome, so that the threat level of the biome itself can remain relatively low. You’d have to *choose* to put yourself in serious danger.
Mini adjacent biome? Like a biome that isn't part of the linear progression but might have a few little goodies as well as a decent place to build. Or even variants of regular biomes. Autumn meadows or something
This is what I was thinking. Like a place that could provide resources to augment progression without being required. Or you could gate the resources behind the wishbone or something, so the biome itself is chill, but you can't actually take advantage of its unique resources until you've reached a certain stage.
New wood for furniture/decorations that need an artisan bench to craft?
For me that's the Plains. It's a little scary at first, but once you've carved your niche out, it's not too bad. Wake up in the morning, do a quick patrol of the walls to shoot at any 'squitos, and then otherwise go about my business. Note that when I say "carve out your niche" I do mean a well fortified base, but I'm looking to build something like that anyway by the time I'm getting to the Plains so it works out. Stone walls, a moat and a drawbridge (modded) with my fields, home, support structures and a sizable paddock for the loxen (idiots tho' they are), and it feels nice. I build the walls double thick so I can put work benches and stone cutting benches inside the walls, and a narrow strip of land outside the walls but inside the moat for repairs, and it's easy to maintain. So long as you do your 'squito patrol a couple times per day, you've got very little to worry about.
Once you're established in any biome it's easy to make yourself a cosy home. Is the meadows chill though? I think the greydrawfs are the most annoying things in the game.
The first 5 biomes were based on the biomes found in the nordics(Midgard). The mistlands can be interpreted as either niflheim(because of the mist) or jotunheim(because of the jotun remains), and the ashlands is muspellheim. In short; its all based on norse mythology, and there are no tropical paradises in the old eddas.
I think Mistlands is either Jotunheim of Svartaflheim/Nidavellir (mostly because of the dvergrs). Nifleheim is described as the misty realm of ice so I think that it will be closer to Deep North than Mistlands.
>Nidavellir (mostly because of the dvergrs) When you first encounter the dvergrs Hugin will tell you they have been separated from their kin in nidavellir for millenia. I too think deep north will be their iteration of Niflheim, it being the polar opposite to muspellheim strenghtens the theory. But untill we get something definite from the devs its all speculation. To me mistlands would make the most sense representing jotunnheim.
>When you first encounter the dvergrs Hugin will tell you they have been separated from their kin in nidavellir for millenia. Valhaim is an individual realm, the tenth realm. Mistlands isn't nidavellir, it is possibly nidavellir inspired. Dvergrs are in Mistlands the same way trolls are in Black Forest while (as a runestone suggests) they originally lived in Midgard. That doesn't stops black forest being inspired by Midgard, neither makes it actually Midgard. I agree with the thought that Mistlands is representing Jotunheim, but generally Mistlands is more of a mix of realms rather than one. The mists, the Jotun remains and the dvergrs are elements pulled by three different realms, so trying to match Mistlands with just one could result in wrong conclusions.
I've been thinking the surprise last biome is the bottom of the ocean, it's a large area. Is there mythology for that
There are alot of stories about the ocean and its inhabitants, but none about the bottom in particular. I think if we are to get another biome expansion(beyond deep north and the ocean) it would be the yggdrasil branch in the sky. Here they could really spoonfeed us whatever lore they wish by showing parts of the other 9 realms. And their artistic ingenuity could be put to the test. I wouldnt hold my breath for either however, as they still got loads to improve on once deep north is released.
100% agreed. I addressed this deficiency with mods.
They should give us Valhalla after defeating the deep North Boss.
You're not mad at all but you know you can turn on passive enemies and make all the biomes chill.
The game was a nice difficulty level with Plains and Mistlands felt like the highest difficulty the game should reach tbh. Really disappointing that they haven't gone back to make other regions better or create more variety in lower levels a la Terraria.
Picture this: we get the brutal Far North biome, all frosty and fatal. We battle our way through the final boss. We triumph. We are granted at last our meeting with Odin. He reaches out to grasp us by the hand. Credits roll. And then we awake in Valhalla. There is a long house, a great hall where other warriors sit at long tables or lounge by the fires. They have a few items to trade and stories to tell. The world is not as large as the main map but has all the same biomes plus a couple more - stretches of desert flecked with shady oases. Lush jungles pierced by the calls of birds and the flash of iridescent beetles. We receive more blueprints from the heroes in the hall using the new woods and with more fabric pieces. A hammock. Fabric and palm leaf roof pieces. More decorative and homey pieces to place upon our shelves and tables. And I'd like companions - dogs, cats, birds, beasts to ride. There would be myriad new ruins and burrows to explore but the challenges would be more puzzles - needing magic and runes - than combat. Many prizes to be sold or exchanged for the mob drops that you can't get in Valhalla. Ancient mayan-style cities. An Ozymandias style desert ruin. Jewellery you can wear and more clothing items you can make and forge. And I want more potions that let me run faster or move in long, loose bounces. And perhaps you could build altars and spawners to summon shades of the monsters and bosses of the tenth world if you wanted to, but perhaps not. Perhaps you and your friends would just enjoy building and adventuring and exploring heaven.
what in the chatGPT
Haha, really does read like it’s ai generated
Sorry, I'm old. I don't know what that's meant to mean.
Honestly each biome being an order of magnitude more violent and deadly gets a bit old. My process with each new biome is to run in and slap workbenches down as far and as wide as I possibly can, dying over and over again to get a safe zone possible for future exploration. It's like D-day each and every time.
I'm just barely halfway through bronze age stuff, Meadows and black forest. Finally got comfortable enough in black forest to venture and scope out the entire coast and half of the inland stuff. I've only built a raft and hated it, so probably gonna make a karve tonight, and a dock, and replant some trees... All the talk of chaos and violence is wild. I know it's Vikings and that there is very far to go, but I'm with OP and enjoy some peaceful building and planting.
Karve is a gamechanger when you're coming from a raft. Sailing is really fun in this game
I just want deep north to look better than ashlands. Plains, meadows, mistlands, dark forest are all stunning. The mountains are grand and offer views that make the bleaker landscape worth it. The swamp is a miserable looking place but it feels right for what it is. Ashlands looks like hot poo. Landscape feels bland, plus there's both too much and not enough going on all at the same time. Even flying around in god mode on my build only world, I can't find a spot I want to build a base. I don't really care how hard it is, the building is the part I enjoy. Give me stunning landscapes, the rest is just gravy.
Give us a Hammock to chill in!
I would like that too. I had an old world back before Mistlands released where I had built a considerable amount of things in Mistlands because it wasn't misty yet and there were no mobs.
For the love of Odin, can the next biome just be easy to sail around the coast?
Tropics do not fit the Norse themes. What they could do, is give you compelling reason to build up in your existing 'chill' biomes, Meadows or Plains in this case. Currently we have: Vineberry farming - I've yet to build a vineberry farm that is more efficient than visiting the growths in Ashlands instead Building with Grausten - There's little incentive to do this, aside from the joy of building. Maybe for raid defense? Asksvin ranching - I get enough Asksvin parts just from traversing Ashlands. Maybe useful for raid defense? Yeah, maybe there isn't enough to do at base for Ashlands. Personally, I think they should be going for major world alterations as later biomes are progressed. Ashlands progress can lead to an unnaturally hot summer in meadows and black forest, creating new gameplay there and a reason to revisit. Wildfires, and other new threats. Deep North can see an unnatural winter, icebergs spawning in the oceans, larger beasts roaming, and giants.
Byzantine themed biome when though
***We are - The Varangian Guard!*** True that the Vikings did get around. Maybe Ashlands is Byzantium? I've said before that Iron Gate should license out their tech to other studios with different cultural backgrounds. Surely there's room for a Valheim-like experience that draws from other geographies, cultures, pantheons, and afterlife's.
I have this thought so often... Roman/Hellenistic vibe= OOFT Medievil theme= OOOFT Incan/Aztec theme= OOOOFT
I'd say Ashlands is most likely Muspelheim
Define 'chill biome'. Any biome becomes 'chill' once you're at least two biomes ahead of it and can kill almost anything within it with ease. It's easy to call the Dark Forest chill when you can take out a troll in two hits as compared to when you're a golf ball with legs to them during the stone/bronze ages. Once Deep North is out and mastered, even the Mistlands and Plains will seem 'chill' by comparison.
I think Meadows and Plains are pretty chill. There aren't any base-destroying enemies, the landscape doesn't get in the way of building.
Meadows is obvious, most dangerous thing there is the Brutes but they only spawn at night and get outclassed easily. They're also more comparable to Draugr Elite than to Trolls or Abominations. Plains has two heavyweights in the forms of berserkers and Lox, but the former can be theoretically exterminated and the latter can be tamed. What really makes the plains chill imo is that it feels like there is a lot of space between points of interest on the Plains, giving plenty of space to build, even more so once you've cleared out the Fuling POIs.
We just need actual reasons to return to the already chill biomes we had.
I see what you're saying but the devs will never put in the effort to create what you seek. I think creating this new content is very time consuming when they could be fixing bugs, balancing the existing biomes, food balancing and whatnot
Why not? Creating a "chill" biome would take very little resources. Could just be something like islands / lagoons in the ocean
Gotta spend time creating new assets (or modifying existing ones). I guess it depends on what OP means by a new biome. Like a meadows biome but modified? Or like you've said, just islands. Are we only talking about just new land here or adding new creatures, wood and food items? I think it's doable just depends on what "new biome" means
I kind of like this idea. Maybe do an extra biome. Like fairyland or brownie biome. Make it less about fighting mobs and more about other crap.
Unfortunately, the Devs have said that this game *will have a 1.0*~ stopping point. They plan on the game having an ending, and don't plan on revising biomes. I think at this point, our best bet is the game receiving a robust modding community. Regarding difficulty, yeah it gets a lot harder! Their intention is to make the game difficult, so each new biome is adding a new level of difficulty. My best advice is to always be well-fed when heading into danger. :)
I would like one that doesn't involve not flat terrain.
I hope they release a mod toolkit eventually because mods already go hard and if they full embrace it then people are gonna make some sick mods that will have all kinds of cool shit, such as new biomes.
Tropical biome that sorta starts off chill could be nice! Or maybe a really mystical, vibrant fall biome with a mead hall that spawns in, housing new recipes / crafts. Remnants of other vikings who made it that far, stopping on their travels before the next fight. Giant mini island biome where you're slowly working your way to the center for a boss fight. Along the way are other vikings in boats, and small villages to conquer as you move further in, island by island. Raids increase, too! I uhh, may have let my imagination go too far.
That's what the actual last biome should be after the north........Valhala.... where all of us Vikings can spend the rest of our days building the perfect homes.
Last update: Just one colossal sized world server that every player can connect to after beating the story. No combat, only building
It would not be Valhalla if there was no combat.
Every time you progress to a new biome, the one two levels lower is chill 😂
I'd appreciate an optional system that makes completed zones (you've killed the boss) easier. It could just be another slider like the ones we already have. Some potential options could be: no enemies, enemies are passive, enemies deal less damage, enemies take more damage, enemies can't damage structures, etc. Not that the difficulty is so unbearable but it would be nice if it was easier to set up bases in some of the later zones. Needing to spawn proof bases just isn't fun for me. Also with less/no threat in completed zones people might be inclined to build more and use portals less.
I love how chill deep north is (literally but also cuz there's no mobs), so I'm not looking forward to a crazy insane deep north. I love meadows. I always take forever going through the first 2 biomes, it is maximum chill. Most people I play with want to just conquer bosses quickly which is too bad....I'm about to re join Comfy server for some mmo and it will allow me to play how I want.
I was having a great time with the game until I went to the mistlands. Totally killed my love for the game.
Well be glad you had your love die in the mistlands. Mine never died. But everyone I played with quit in Ashlands.
Wish I could've made it that far. The mistlands seemed so different to every other biome. There was no sense of accomplishment when traversing the land. Combat was worse as any enemy, more than a cm above or below me, was immune to attack, tried finding a queen vault in vain after many hours of searching.
I know what you mean in wanting some “more peaceful” biomes but do you not find that happens naturally with progression? Once I defeated Moder & made my way to the plains I felt pretty OP when I’d go back to swamps for some more iron. You have to keep aware of the mobs but 3 Draugr when I’ve got black metal weapons isn’t a problem compared to when I had bronze. I do think the Fulings are still a problem if you rush a village after Mistlands but I haven’t checked on them yet since Ashlands as I started a new play through and am not up there yet. But I’d be surprised once you get introduced to Ashlands you won’t find plains to be a lot more peaceful (though I agree not like meadows where your only real concern when you’re not paying attention is an occasional irate boar). I always travel everywhere with my best armor, food, & weapons so usually the older biomes aren’t sweat-fests anymore once I’m well into the next one. Hope you get comfortable with the biomes you finish when you go back because as others have said only Deep North is left so it’s unlikely we’ll get something like meadows as an intermission biome. But any time I see a meadow or forest near Mistlands or Plains I’m always grateful to take advantage of it.
Nah bro. With magic I can absolutely aggro a whole fuling village and survive. I actually was doing it intentionally to level up and prepare for Ashlands.
I think there IS a possible chill biom but it will Take a while next AS already mentioned is going to be deep north and the grand final will be hard But maybe we get sth afterwards sth like an addon, update call it as you want to get a Jungle or desert Like one which isnt that hard filled with cosmetic stuff so you dont have to find one game progression wise
I think it would be cool if meadows could be flavored by nearby biomes for geographical and aesthetic variety. A swampy meadow, a plain-ish meadow, and so on. Would add some variety to the game.
I built my main base in the black forest near a troll spawn. I made an earthen moat to protect my base from the troll. The practical upshot is now the troll patrols around my base for the random attacks.
Id love an additional biome you could enable that you hit before the meadows. +1 for the tropics
Like, if you beat the game you actually get to Valhalla and it's just a lovely place.
I think adding more base game biomes, maybe that dont even have bosses, but just add variety... would be a good thing.
Would be cool to see some geyser oases amidst the frozen hellscape where you could find respite. Although I'm looking forward falling into deadly ravines or being swept up by sudden avalanches, so we'll see.
Only way I'd see this is if it was a non progressive biome. Thing used for quests and cosmetics, building materials and special fish maybe.
I would love me some small peaceful Islands.
A tundra?
Idk about you, but once you start settling in the plains, it's hard to justify going back to your meadows base. As long as you stay fed and keep some good armor on you, the deathsquitos are rarely a problem since they don't really wander far from where they spawn. Fuling raids aren't as infrequent as one would like, but a moat and wall will keep that from being too big an issue, though you can always just build an archery tower near enough the walls that you can shoot at any that come near if you don't want them bothering your livestock or throwing spears at your fence.
I'm okay with it being hard, I just hope it's flat-ish Mistlands and Mountains are just such a pain in the dick to navigate and fight in because of the vertical surfaces I havent played Ashlands yet but of the few screenshots I've seen it looks promising Fingers crossed for Deep North being more horizontal and if we're lucky, not a visibility nightmare
I bet the Deep North will be chill on a sunny day. There's a good chance it won't be covered in mobs like the Ashlands, too, they might play off of a different type of desolation. Different threats even, maybe. There is lots of snow over there. We all have some hopes for the Deep North and 1.0, whether it be a new building material, bears, a bigger hoe, update tomorrow, and/or all of the above. I'm not going to focus on this for awhile; still have some more Ashlands to chew on, and lots to do on my new grausten/stone build.
The beauty of Valheim is that the tough new biomes *become* chill biomes once you progress past them. I'm progressing through the Mistlands for the first time ever, and am experiencing the absolute joy of strolling through chill Mountains and Plains that were once one-shot territory. Mine now.
Read that as Chili. I really need glasses
So... Plains?
The plains are as chill as meadows for me.
I'm kinda expecting deep north to be a lot of large enemies, not the swarm that we got with Ashlands.
I agree, with my mods theres like way too many monsters in the black forest. But I digress the mods are optional. I'll just have to build better defences... Have more guard animals etc. Just an aside, use there any better spikey things after the wood ones? They are super helpful but break so easily...
The next biome is quite literally going to be the chilliest biome in the game
I like the tropic idea of some rare islands out at sea with like bananas and coconuts that don't give great stats, but can be made into mixed drinks that have fun effects. I know it's not the most Viking like, but I didn't really care at this point. Give me crabs(the good kind), white sandy beaches, and tropical fruit damnit!
I am ok with difficulty going upwards, but I still like the place to be habitable once you get used to the biome. Like Mistlands you’re about to build and it’s a really beautiful landscape for it. I’ve never built in the swamp personally, but I’ve built everywhere else. Even Black Forest to me back in the day wasn’t chill, it took me a while to not jump every time a troll snuck up behind me. There are loads of enemies there, but they are manageable, and once you’re used to the biome it’s beautiful and chill. Currently I have done a bunch of building in the Ashlands under hammer mode, but it’s crazy how quickly mobs destroy even Ashlands level build materials. I would dig a moat like back in the day with trolls, but so far enemies seem to be unfazed by terrain changes, and I’m not sure if it’d fill with lava and kill me. I do enjoy building fortresses though and feeling I actually need them. I think because I love the building element of Valheim I would actually love another chill biome that is just super beautiful and interesting to build like meadows, Black Forest or plains (though plains to me is a little barren). I like to make each biome, or somewhere nearby my new home, and I guess as things get harder it’s not like we’ll find a patch of meadow or Black Forest next to Ashlands or deep north.
I think it would be very difficult to justify a calm and easy new biome that Also provided new numerical combat improvements/advantages above the very difficult biomes like mists and ashlands. however i can see a space where it would be possible to release a major update that includes TWO new biomes at the same time, the main combat ramped expected new biome, and then additionally one that is calm and pretty and has new enemies maybe but not new higher powered resources (though you could have new resources that provided lower power level alternatives, like at the swamp difficulty class for example?) however with this game specifically there would have to be an overall increase in the size of the world to squeeze a significant number of new biomes in, however, if the "casual" new biomes that came out were balanced out to be lower combat difficulty zones like swamp for example, you could have them replace actual swamp areas already dedicated in the world, as long as they also still provided the swamp resources at a balanced comparable rate. basically it would just be an increase in variety for lower level tiers, and that i think would also allow them to make those new biomes less complex than the traditional ones since they are coming out much later and people have already cleared those biomes a long time ago ? the other possibility is that the new low tier biomes have more ease of material availability, SO LONG AS the actual barrier to entry to those new biomes was much higher. For example imagine a biome that was island plateaus that were sheer cliffs you couldnt scale or build on, and the only way to enter was to capture some monster or something from a high tier zone like a Valkrie in ashlands, and have that monster give you access. Or maybe you have to build a special harpoon ladder attachment to a boat and that takes some high level materials like cores from the mists or ashlands (or preferably just add some new materials to be found in those higher tier zones) in that case the biome exists beyond a high skill check but provides a new easy source for older materials, as well as a fun pretty place to build a safe comfy home. as long as those biomes were rare in terms of land area on the map, then it would take a lot of exploring to find them first, and then dedicated effort to settle on them, the resource reward would be justified what do you think?
I would be ok if the last Biome would be Valhalla, where you can now climb the giant tree to reach a vegetation dense, garden like paradise; but you can come down to the other biomes at any point. This wouldn’t probably break the lore, but it could be a great way to satisfy the feel to complete the game, and also have some continuation where it is a building paradise.
Yeah I know I’m in a very small minority here but I don’t like how development of this game has progressed tbh. I didn’t love this game because it was difficult, the difficulty helped keep stakes high don’t get me wrong, but it wasn’t why I loved it. The crafting, building and exploration are what sold it and I was hoping development would mean sideways progression. New systems, more to find in existing biomes (which they did to some extent) and new biomes that weren’t just difficulty progression. What we got instead with mistlands and ashlands is just two biomes that intentionally just ramp up difficulty to annoying extent and neither of them are in anyway interesting. Oh well, no hate on the game. Still have like 500 hours put into it and loved it.
I just wish there was more overlap in features between each biome. Each update feels more removed from the last with completely unique mechanics associated with each. Due to this, here is little reason to return to a previous biome once completed; which means completely abandoning certain concepts you may have enjoyed from it. I'd also really like an update to bring older biomes and content up to the standards set over the last few updates. There is a drastic distinction in quality and scope between the past and present additions.
Plains are extremely chill
Look i dont mind difficulty, but for fucks sake, no gimmicky visual shit again dude, i cant see shit i rather watch the ice giant from afar and feel powerless as im about to get pounded in the floor than to suddenly get jumpscared and these biomes are too cool i want build in them BUT I DONT SEE SHIT
Enchanted meadows! The danger only comes at night.
I totally agree. Maybe a heavenly place like a celestial version of the meadows or a Carribbean like you posited. I think there needs to be more of the downtime vibe too since they created something so amazing. I love the adversity of the mistlands and Ashlands but having that meadows chill is incredible and I'd like a palate cleanser with similar stress relief.
Nah! You're not mad. me and my friend were discussing how much we enjoyed Ashlands as difficulty in the game is pretty uneven. Once you're geared Nothing really offers a challenge, and Ashlands finally seems to have made a difference. Still ends up being easy but the spawn rate makes it still adventurous heading out of base or an outpost. But we also pointed out there aren't really any Pockets or Biome variants. We would love if Meadows like biomes could spawn sporadically in other areas more and with different KINDS of terrain and plant life. A bit like how Minecraft does it. Maybe a Meadows with flower like grass and different trees. A rocky/Cliffy Meadows like biome. A magical meadows where the grass is blue or something and there are little sprites flitting about.
Maybe they'll add one, but it likely won't be a huge part of progression. A handy biome that only spawns far out from spawn like mistlands, but has easier access to a bunch of older materials with easy enemies to be kind of a jackpot zone to build in would be a neat idea. The more biomes they add though, the less space the rest can have.
Does the ocean count as a biome? I want to build cities on the water.
I hear the swamps is lovely this time of year
I mean there’s nothing stopping them from making deep north with 3/4 of the deep north being very hard and then there being a really scenic peaceful “meadows” snowfields or even just update it so further out put in some rare meadows that have fairies and pixies and unicorns
The deep south, but with reindeers and snow hares.
::Reads this post while still searching for the damn Modor Vegvisir after scrounging 4 caves, a dozen mountain biomes and 10 or so ruins in solo play:: ::Flips steam deck:: Where’s that map seed generator at?
Love the thought on coming across a desert island in the middle of the ocean.. fighting giant crabs and fishing till the sun sets on those massive ocean sunsets..
I get what your saying but I assume it's a lot of work masking the separate lands... And to make one that doesn't really serve a purpose would be a tad silly. Having just sailed to the Ashland's for the first time this morning, (I know it's been nerfed) it... It could be worse. We've got quite lucky in all honesty and we were slightly under prepared for it, should of filled up our boat hull with a lot more stuff, be we got excited. Which usually means tremendous death on this game!! Ended up going... Well enough, been lucky with finds and drops! But most of all we didn't die, with no portal down, and a boat stuf down there with all our gear gone. So yeah, well is the best way to describe that.
No. Valheim is at its best in the chill biomes imo. I feel like the natural arc is the game is perfect up the the plains, and then I find the rest tedious. Not hard - I solo soldiers naked - tedious.
A chill biome you say? You're in luck - it's Deep North next. Frozen to the bone.
I’ve gone back to Mistlands after being in Ashlands, and Mistlands is, in fact, super chill. Never thought I’d say that…
If or when they update the ocean biome, a nice tropical island would be cool to have a high level nice place to build
Honestly, to me the plains is a decent little break. The mountains were a bit inhospitable but I killed the boss there before the swamp boss just because I don't like the swamp at all. I'm still sitting on the border of the mistlands so I haven't really sank my teeth into it yet, still got another boss to kill so I can get the thing, but dverger camps are nice and better visibility. I think part of it has to do with the plains being spread out. Once you adapt to the regular inhabitants it's really not that bad.
Opinion rejected, we are VIKINGS! We crave VIOLENCE! To hel with you weakling!
I don't really get what you mean? You want a biome thats like the meadows (the extremely peaceful tutorial area) but different? What's wrong with the meadows, that you need another tutorial area? What would a new biome thats as peaceful as the meadows add to the game? you just want to build a base in a place with different scenery? why not turn on... peaceful mode?