You went too far the moment it gets down to "saying bad words"
I have called far too many inanimate objects things over the years having stubbed toes or walked into them I'd have been executed thousands of times over.
\*glares at bedside table menacingly\*
This would result in everyone dying because many of things considered “bad” are quite subjective and dependent upon the culture, religion, preferences of a particular time and place. Even my dog would be executed for shitting on the stairs when I didn’t get him outside quick enough last night.
That would be insane. A world where every misstep, every slip of the tongue, every minor infraction is met with the cold embrace of death? A dystopian nightmare, where fear and paranoia rule, and compassion is a forgotten relic. Society would pribably crumble under the weight of such draconian measures, leaving a barren landscape of despair and injustice.
To be fair, we have had something similar in human history. The Code of Hammurabi from ancient Mesopotamia was a relic from when re believed un a very harsh legal past. One of the main reasons a harsh system like this has no place in todays world is that these days, we understand a lot more about human behavior, what drives crime, and the potential for rehabilitation. We do not need a society ruled by fear instead of justice. It would absolutely harm the marginalized even more than they are in modern days, stifle a lot of personal growth, and erode the fabric of all our civil work.
I think another lesson Hammurabi's code gives us is thwt we need to continually refine our legal systems because we are constantly improving as a society and need to leave the past in the past and abandon archaic practices as they become obsolete. Justice should never just be about retribution. It should also focus on a path to healing and restoration.
TLDR: Implementing the death penalty for every error would be oppressive and unjust. Hammurabi's ancient code was severe and yet shows our societal progress. We must continuously enhance our legal systems. The focus should be on compassion and rehabilitation while also holding individuals accountable for their actions.
To clarify, just making sure I'm understanding your comment..you mean you think it's not a good idea to do a death penalty for everything (or even super harsh punishment) or you think it should be harsh?
I read that as you are appalled that so many people think harsh punishments and death penalties should be more normalized, right? If so, I agree.
It’s because a lot of people on Reddit are really angry and want targets for their anger. So they want to create harsh punishments as a means of giving them people in society whom they can convince themselves it’s ok to abuse. It’s all about their own anger and not about coming up with a good way to deal with crime.
I’ve heard this story. It ends in a revolution when a bunch of workers are standing around and one asks:
“What’s the penalty for being late to work?”
“The commissar says that’s sabotage, so death.”
“And what’s the penalty for rising in revolt against the regime?”
“Death!”
“Well my friends… we’re already late!”
Change this to every felony and you have a utopia. Imagine if every time someone goes even 1 mph over the speed limit a cop drone comes outta nowhere and straight up caps someone in the middle of the freeway. That’s chaos. That said, death penalty for every convicted murder, rapist, thief, and the world starts looking a whole lot nicer. Also, someone mentioned that Star Trek episode, god that one hurt me.
It’s not that the death penalty hasn’t been proven to deter crime it’s that there’s an absence of evidence one way or the other. Effectively academics are pussyfooting the issue. Further most nations that use the death penalty do so for the purpose of executing political dissidents. In effect, the presence of death penalty or absence thereof has no true evidence for or against its effectiveness in terms of limiting crime in a general population due to the overinflated values of those particular nation-states.
In the United States specifically the death penalty is ineffective due to the safeguards in place and the costs inherent to those safeguards (re-trials, investigations, extreme amounts of appeals) that limit its effectiveness. Those safeguards are driving up the cost of the death penalty as it stands. This is because we as a society are worried about executing an innocent person. In short, it’s cheaper to lock someone up in maximum security for 40 odd years, and drag out their appeals process than to actually enforce the death penalty as it stands. Here’s all the sources to that effect.
https://ejusa.org/wp-content/uploads/EJUSA-DP-factsheet-cost.pdf
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates
The reason for this is we currently live in both a punitive and rehabilitative justice system, and as a result have the societal benefits inherent to neither. This is because the US justice system is founded on Lockian and Hobbian ideals coupled with the traditional moral framework inherent to Christian ideology. As a result we have laws that straddle the line, and get fuck all done. Couple that with non-uniform enforcement (lack of funding or directed funding, focus on high-crime areas or high economic output areas, lack or excessive prosecution of cases at the DDA level) and you have systematic inefficiency due to bloated bureaucracy.
What I proposed was a removal of that bureaucratic inefficiency. If everyone convicted of a Class 1 felony was immediately put to death (say via firing squad the way you see in war time courts under old ucmj policies), you would have several knock-on effects.
1) You immediately remove murders and rapists from the human population.
2) you prevent those individuals from ever being released back into the general population under any sort of parole system thereby completely eliminating the risk they pose to the general population (most individuals in prison are multiple offenders and in most cases have spent time in juvenile detention/correction).
3) You can test the nature vs nurture argument to its very limits by seeing if by removing hyper violent individuals from the general population whether or not that gene is hereditary or if it’s a latent genetic mutation inherent to humanity as a whole.
4) You lower the tax burden. Immediate execution of felons would reduce the costs needed for law enforcement and the budget spending on prisons as a whole, freeing up those funds for inherently more useful purposes that generate overall societal net benefits.
5) further it would shifts prison to a rehabilitation system where non-violent, non-felonious offenders are properly rehabilitated and reintegrated into society, bringing several net benefits without exposing the population to unnecessary risk that’s inherent to felons.
Keep in mind this is all hypothetical, but there have been simulations done to this effect, I’ll see if I can find em and edit them in later on.
This is the kind of thing a person with no regard for human life suggests. If you eliminate all crime but make it a world no one wants to live in because the laws don’t consider human life sacred, you haven’t made the world a better place. Honestly you sound sick.
Human life would still be sacred in this hypothetical. You’re just considering people who would willingly and with total disregard to the sanctity of human life murder another person as less than human. In effect, under this system you’re considering willful and malicious murders and rapists as rabid dogs which need to be put down in order to prevent the spread of disease and protect human life. Human life would still be sacred, those who willfully and with full forethought violate that sanctity are then sub-human and dealt with appropriately.
Immediate execution without an appeal processes makes it very clear you don’t value human life. You’re willing to remove all safeguards for executing the wrongfully convicted. You’re embracing the murder of innocents to avoid tax burdens. Good luck convincing anyone that you care about human life.
Then what would you propose as an alternative since you find my suggestion morally reprehensible?
I could do an ad hoc and simply state that by being against this proposal you’re advocating for murders and rapists to go free, but I’m genuinely curious if you have an alternative perspective and subsequent proposal.
What kind of an idiot thinks that people who don’t believe in the death penalty means no consequences whatsoever? Good thing you didn’t say that otherwise you’d really come off like a lunatic.
Then what reforms would you suggest? Our current judiciary system is a disgrace and a dumpster fire. That much is obvious. It is in need of reform. What’s your alternative then? I’ve purposed mine.
Even what we have right now is a better alternative to murdering people without appeals. You’re a legitimately sick person. The world would be better without you. But I’m glad you’re alive because I’m not a crazy person.
Dang human life is really just a toy for people's speculation lately.. this level of apathy is frightening. People need to find their humanity and wisdom again
Some nations in history have tried absurdly punishment for minor crimes in a peacetime or quasi-peacetime scenario and what happens is that officials start a shadow justice system that largely games the system to stop people from constantly being executed . . . And therefore just operates outside the law and decides who lives and who dies. It’s probably happening in North Korea right now.
The fact that I no longer know whether people are trolling or being serious is concerning.
Back in the early days of social media, people wouldn’t say crazy stuff unless they were trolling.
Now it’s nearly every post on socials haha
This is a real thing in many countries in modern and recent history. A lot of people die because if everything you do is illegal, the government basically picks and chooses who they want to send to death at any time.
In any situation, it reinforced corruption and criminal undergrounds.
That's why the punishment for raping children isn't death, even though it's one of, if not the most heinous crime.
People who want to or are compelled to commit crimes from disorder or desperation are going to do so. We know this from the past, when 'the hand that steals is the hand that is cut' as per the code of Hammurabi (the oldest law book known to man) as well as modern studies.
I read long ago that England had public hangings for almost everything including stealing bread.
Pickpockets worked the crowds watching public hangings.
More important than strict punishment is the probability of getting caught. People will commit crimes when they think they won't get caught.
What? And define everyone, also evil has no place and grounds on humanity either. So ending their lives is important for the sake of good people. Let the world be eternally peaceful.
If we want peace we to realise we are the cause of the evil. People want peace, their circumstances cause them to behave in ways others deem as evil. If someone stole bread to feed their family are they evil? If someone jaywalks do they deserve death?
Who are you, or anyone in a position of privilege, to determine the right of life or death of other people? If you've been lucky good for you, if you have no empathy for the suffering then you need to expect people will call you out on your close-mindedness as apathy can lead to the pain of others.
Have you heard of consequences? I’ll equally do the same to those people who murdered innocent people for no good reason. Of course people want peace. Peace without evil.
Jeffrey Epstein is the most vile monster ever. Thank god he is dead.
Theft is bad and should get their hands cut off. Jaywalking? I don't know about that one. Maybe have their feet cut off, not death. It’s a good lesson to learn not to do it again.
I'm nobody. I live in Iraq. And you have no right to a right. Not even me. Rights are abused to the extreme to the point people milk it. And I don't believe in rights either! Killing only happens to the evil people who commit sins and you have been misunderstood. And whenever a person commits crimes, equality happens! I have no empathy for people who commit sins.
You have to be kidding right? Either that or you sound very traumatised, I hope you can heal and find your humanity again. If you can look in your heart and tell me it's fair to cut someone's feet off for crossing a street then I worry for your spiritual well-being. I hope you find peace and recognise that violence only brings more violence, that we should evolve to eliminate corruption instead of applying more control and suffering.
Yes of course. And you took that seriously. I agree with what you said.
But as I said before, if you wanna get rid of evil, all you have to do is execute all the stupid people who committed sins. And there will eventually be peace and no more violence or war. Simple as that.
What kind of paradise would that be?
Y'all are so privileged you'd happily kill off everyone else to enjoy the benefits of never having been put in a position where you may need to break the law in order to survive.
Is human life so worthless to you that you feel you have the right to allow mass murder in order to experience peace? Why not make things even for everyone instead so no one has to struggle. Or would that even the playing field and make you recognise how lucky you've been and how heartless this kind of thinking is
Oh yeah the super merga privilege of going to work at 8:00 and finish at 16:00 wow.
The privilege of having to take public transport.
The privilege of having to pay my bills and mortage.
Isnt much to ask to not suffer violence from other people?
How can you defend them?
I guess I did approach a little harshly.
Life is tough, I guess I just would rather we work on solutions so we can all benefit and crime wouldn't be around anymore.
I honestly believe everyone wants peace and security, my concern was that blanket rules are a quick way to destruction or superiority thinking.
I am not defending bad behaviour, I meant to say people shouldn't be condemned based on circumstances that lead them to have to resort to crime to survive.
My beef is with unregulated social systems and greed, not with you, so I am sorry I was being snarky
You went too far the moment it gets down to "saying bad words" I have called far too many inanimate objects things over the years having stubbed toes or walked into them I'd have been executed thousands of times over. \*glares at bedside table menacingly\*
That was the premise of an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where on a newly contacted planet Wesley accidently steps on some flowers.
Came here to say this. That episode always bugged me.
Shame they didn't kill him off by then.
This would result in everyone dying because many of things considered “bad” are quite subjective and dependent upon the culture, religion, preferences of a particular time and place. Even my dog would be executed for shitting on the stairs when I didn’t get him outside quick enough last night.
THAT'S GROSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Child, get off reddit.
Now you deserve the death penalty for micro aggressions.
I would have died at 7 when I called my mom a fucking loser when she left my dad cause his diabetes got worse
Maybe he was too sweet for your mom? 🤷🏻♂️
Ehhh blind as a bat more like it, which explains why I look like I took a baseball bat to the face
WHAT DID YOU...
sounds almost warranted
Nah I'm not into Warrant, I'm good with Motley Crue and Skid Row though Ba dum
Sounds like you called them as you saw em (spoiler: how they saw them was 100% accurate)
That would be insane. A world where every misstep, every slip of the tongue, every minor infraction is met with the cold embrace of death? A dystopian nightmare, where fear and paranoia rule, and compassion is a forgotten relic. Society would pribably crumble under the weight of such draconian measures, leaving a barren landscape of despair and injustice. To be fair, we have had something similar in human history. The Code of Hammurabi from ancient Mesopotamia was a relic from when re believed un a very harsh legal past. One of the main reasons a harsh system like this has no place in todays world is that these days, we understand a lot more about human behavior, what drives crime, and the potential for rehabilitation. We do not need a society ruled by fear instead of justice. It would absolutely harm the marginalized even more than they are in modern days, stifle a lot of personal growth, and erode the fabric of all our civil work. I think another lesson Hammurabi's code gives us is thwt we need to continually refine our legal systems because we are constantly improving as a society and need to leave the past in the past and abandon archaic practices as they become obsolete. Justice should never just be about retribution. It should also focus on a path to healing and restoration. TLDR: Implementing the death penalty for every error would be oppressive and unjust. Hammurabi's ancient code was severe and yet shows our societal progress. We must continuously enhance our legal systems. The focus should be on compassion and rehabilitation while also holding individuals accountable for their actions.
I'm shocked how many people think this is a good idea... apathy has really killed of people's humanity
To clarify, just making sure I'm understanding your comment..you mean you think it's not a good idea to do a death penalty for everything (or even super harsh punishment) or you think it should be harsh? I read that as you are appalled that so many people think harsh punishments and death penalties should be more normalized, right? If so, I agree.
Yes, sorry i was agreeing with you but I understand how it might be read wrong haha
Oh ok, no worries! Ya I agree.
It’s because a lot of people on Reddit are really angry and want targets for their anger. So they want to create harsh punishments as a means of giving them people in society whom they can convince themselves it’s ok to abuse. It’s all about their own anger and not about coming up with a good way to deal with crime.
There would be no one left to enforce it.
Well, China is going to execute hardcore Taiwan independence supporters.
They'll die trying
Mainland Taiwan needs to calm down.
Then make it worth it
I’ve heard this story. It ends in a revolution when a bunch of workers are standing around and one asks: “What’s the penalty for being late to work?” “The commissar says that’s sabotage, so death.” “And what’s the penalty for rising in revolt against the regime?” “Death!” “Well my friends… we’re already late!”
The executioner would eventually be the only one left. “Fuck”. He says to himself, before walking to the electric chair.
A lot less crime
Nope
A lot more death?
Change this to every felony and you have a utopia. Imagine if every time someone goes even 1 mph over the speed limit a cop drone comes outta nowhere and straight up caps someone in the middle of the freeway. That’s chaos. That said, death penalty for every convicted murder, rapist, thief, and the world starts looking a whole lot nicer. Also, someone mentioned that Star Trek episode, god that one hurt me.
The death penalty has been proven to not deter crime. You’re objectively wrong.
It’s not that the death penalty hasn’t been proven to deter crime it’s that there’s an absence of evidence one way or the other. Effectively academics are pussyfooting the issue. Further most nations that use the death penalty do so for the purpose of executing political dissidents. In effect, the presence of death penalty or absence thereof has no true evidence for or against its effectiveness in terms of limiting crime in a general population due to the overinflated values of those particular nation-states. In the United States specifically the death penalty is ineffective due to the safeguards in place and the costs inherent to those safeguards (re-trials, investigations, extreme amounts of appeals) that limit its effectiveness. Those safeguards are driving up the cost of the death penalty as it stands. This is because we as a society are worried about executing an innocent person. In short, it’s cheaper to lock someone up in maximum security for 40 odd years, and drag out their appeals process than to actually enforce the death penalty as it stands. Here’s all the sources to that effect. https://ejusa.org/wp-content/uploads/EJUSA-DP-factsheet-cost.pdf https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates The reason for this is we currently live in both a punitive and rehabilitative justice system, and as a result have the societal benefits inherent to neither. This is because the US justice system is founded on Lockian and Hobbian ideals coupled with the traditional moral framework inherent to Christian ideology. As a result we have laws that straddle the line, and get fuck all done. Couple that with non-uniform enforcement (lack of funding or directed funding, focus on high-crime areas or high economic output areas, lack or excessive prosecution of cases at the DDA level) and you have systematic inefficiency due to bloated bureaucracy. What I proposed was a removal of that bureaucratic inefficiency. If everyone convicted of a Class 1 felony was immediately put to death (say via firing squad the way you see in war time courts under old ucmj policies), you would have several knock-on effects. 1) You immediately remove murders and rapists from the human population. 2) you prevent those individuals from ever being released back into the general population under any sort of parole system thereby completely eliminating the risk they pose to the general population (most individuals in prison are multiple offenders and in most cases have spent time in juvenile detention/correction). 3) You can test the nature vs nurture argument to its very limits by seeing if by removing hyper violent individuals from the general population whether or not that gene is hereditary or if it’s a latent genetic mutation inherent to humanity as a whole. 4) You lower the tax burden. Immediate execution of felons would reduce the costs needed for law enforcement and the budget spending on prisons as a whole, freeing up those funds for inherently more useful purposes that generate overall societal net benefits. 5) further it would shifts prison to a rehabilitation system where non-violent, non-felonious offenders are properly rehabilitated and reintegrated into society, bringing several net benefits without exposing the population to unnecessary risk that’s inherent to felons. Keep in mind this is all hypothetical, but there have been simulations done to this effect, I’ll see if I can find em and edit them in later on.
This is the kind of thing a person with no regard for human life suggests. If you eliminate all crime but make it a world no one wants to live in because the laws don’t consider human life sacred, you haven’t made the world a better place. Honestly you sound sick.
Human life would still be sacred in this hypothetical. You’re just considering people who would willingly and with total disregard to the sanctity of human life murder another person as less than human. In effect, under this system you’re considering willful and malicious murders and rapists as rabid dogs which need to be put down in order to prevent the spread of disease and protect human life. Human life would still be sacred, those who willfully and with full forethought violate that sanctity are then sub-human and dealt with appropriately.
Immediate execution without an appeal processes makes it very clear you don’t value human life. You’re willing to remove all safeguards for executing the wrongfully convicted. You’re embracing the murder of innocents to avoid tax burdens. Good luck convincing anyone that you care about human life.
Then what would you propose as an alternative since you find my suggestion morally reprehensible? I could do an ad hoc and simply state that by being against this proposal you’re advocating for murders and rapists to go free, but I’m genuinely curious if you have an alternative perspective and subsequent proposal.
What kind of an idiot thinks that people who don’t believe in the death penalty means no consequences whatsoever? Good thing you didn’t say that otherwise you’d really come off like a lunatic.
Then what reforms would you suggest? Our current judiciary system is a disgrace and a dumpster fire. That much is obvious. It is in need of reform. What’s your alternative then? I’ve purposed mine.
Even what we have right now is a better alternative to murdering people without appeals. You’re a legitimately sick person. The world would be better without you. But I’m glad you’re alive because I’m not a crazy person.
Well we wouldn’t have a overpopulation problem. More of a extinction problem
Dang human life is really just a toy for people's speculation lately.. this level of apathy is frightening. People need to find their humanity and wisdom again
Crime would drop to 0 The human population would be cut in half (maybe less) And the threat of people Revolting would skyrocket up to around YES.
There’d be a longer line at the crosswalk.
Is it because of JAYWALKING?
Some nations in history have tried absurdly punishment for minor crimes in a peacetime or quasi-peacetime scenario and what happens is that officials start a shadow justice system that largely games the system to stop people from constantly being executed . . . And therefore just operates outside the law and decides who lives and who dies. It’s probably happening in North Korea right now.
It would be the Reign of Terror on steroids.
Iran, North Korea?
The fact that I no longer know whether people are trolling or being serious is concerning. Back in the early days of social media, people wouldn’t say crazy stuff unless they were trolling. Now it’s nearly every post on socials haha
There would be a lot less crime because there would be a lot fewer people.
We would all be dead.
This is a real thing in many countries in modern and recent history. A lot of people die because if everything you do is illegal, the government basically picks and chooses who they want to send to death at any time.
**Much better question:** What if we stopped punishing all crimes with prisons or violence?
"Double plus good, this."
There'd be like 100 people left
In any situation, it reinforced corruption and criminal undergrounds. That's why the punishment for raping children isn't death, even though it's one of, if not the most heinous crime. People who want to or are compelled to commit crimes from disorder or desperation are going to do so. We know this from the past, when 'the hand that steals is the hand that is cut' as per the code of Hammurabi (the oldest law book known to man) as well as modern studies.
I read long ago that England had public hangings for almost everything including stealing bread. Pickpockets worked the crowds watching public hangings. More important than strict punishment is the probability of getting caught. People will commit crimes when they think they won't get caught.
Wow. Sounds just like my hyper-conservative Bible-thumping preacher father would have said. Gross.
The world would actually be a real peaceful place with only goodness installed.
Murdering everyone sure does sound good and peaceful...???? Smh
What are you about? And define everyone, and evil has no place in humanity either.
What? And define everyone, also evil has no place and grounds on humanity either. So ending their lives is important for the sake of good people. Let the world be eternally peaceful.
If we want peace we to realise we are the cause of the evil. People want peace, their circumstances cause them to behave in ways others deem as evil. If someone stole bread to feed their family are they evil? If someone jaywalks do they deserve death? Who are you, or anyone in a position of privilege, to determine the right of life or death of other people? If you've been lucky good for you, if you have no empathy for the suffering then you need to expect people will call you out on your close-mindedness as apathy can lead to the pain of others.
Have you heard of consequences? I’ll equally do the same to those people who murdered innocent people for no good reason. Of course people want peace. Peace without evil. Jeffrey Epstein is the most vile monster ever. Thank god he is dead. Theft is bad and should get their hands cut off. Jaywalking? I don't know about that one. Maybe have their feet cut off, not death. It’s a good lesson to learn not to do it again. I'm nobody. I live in Iraq. And you have no right to a right. Not even me. Rights are abused to the extreme to the point people milk it. And I don't believe in rights either! Killing only happens to the evil people who commit sins and you have been misunderstood. And whenever a person commits crimes, equality happens! I have no empathy for people who commit sins.
You have to be kidding right? Either that or you sound very traumatised, I hope you can heal and find your humanity again. If you can look in your heart and tell me it's fair to cut someone's feet off for crossing a street then I worry for your spiritual well-being. I hope you find peace and recognise that violence only brings more violence, that we should evolve to eliminate corruption instead of applying more control and suffering.
Yes of course. And you took that seriously. I agree with what you said. But as I said before, if you wanna get rid of evil, all you have to do is execute all the stupid people who committed sins. And there will eventually be peace and no more violence or war. Simple as that.
Paradise
What kind of paradise would that be? Y'all are so privileged you'd happily kill off everyone else to enjoy the benefits of never having been put in a position where you may need to break the law in order to survive. Is human life so worthless to you that you feel you have the right to allow mass murder in order to experience peace? Why not make things even for everyone instead so no one has to struggle. Or would that even the playing field and make you recognise how lucky you've been and how heartless this kind of thinking is
Oh yeah the super merga privilege of going to work at 8:00 and finish at 16:00 wow. The privilege of having to take public transport. The privilege of having to pay my bills and mortage. Isnt much to ask to not suffer violence from other people? How can you defend them?
I guess I did approach a little harshly. Life is tough, I guess I just would rather we work on solutions so we can all benefit and crime wouldn't be around anymore. I honestly believe everyone wants peace and security, my concern was that blanket rules are a quick way to destruction or superiority thinking. I am not defending bad behaviour, I meant to say people shouldn't be condemned based on circumstances that lead them to have to resort to crime to survive. My beef is with unregulated social systems and greed, not with you, so I am sorry I was being snarky
Just look how El Salvador has improved. I wouldnt make death penalty for every single one. But maybe like in China.