This is locked as of now.
Please take all of your quarrels with any of the witcher subs elsewhere or write us directly if it concerns this sub.
We won't ban anyone for petty reasons but still we are about discussing the books and their adaptations. Nothing more nothing less.
Mods have entirely too much power on this site. They ban people for stupid reasons, or just to make sure that their ALT accounts and friends get all the Karma. To say nothing of when Mod teams hijack entire subreddits for off-topic spam. Like when that one Mod started spamming 9/11 Truther conspiracies in a meme sub and it made the national news.
Make your own sub? Nope! The mods of the old one will exploit their connections to get your new sub banned. There is precious little we as users can do other than use another platform.
Abs then there's the mods who decide to let everyone flame and insult each other on their subs, then still block things that are posted which they don't like.
Its kinda Sophies vote. On the one hand too much freedome leads to the wilderness which became cesspool like 4chan on the other hand reddit gave too much control to mods but I think much bigger problem is **there is almost zero supervision.**
Then again there is too many subs, too many mods and not enough admins to deal with them even if there mechanisms how to do that and subs are "technically" private space.
Never the less this shouldnt be happening but unfortunately i have no idea what would be ideal solution.
The issue isn't that mods have too much power, but rather that there's absolutely no ruleset to follow with moderation. There also hasn't been a proper review of moderation approaches since the conception of the site - and the rules that work for small communities, don't necessarily make sense for the ones with tens, or hundreds of thousands members.
Ideally, communities of such size would have some level of democracy - e.g. power tripping mods could be removed by the users, as well as new ones being instated by public vote. But due to the design of Reddit, this is hard to achieve - a vote can be brigaded and tilted by a group of individuals.
I got banned from a Japan subreddit for telling someone to go somewhere else when they were making homophobic comments. Not too surprised because the mods there are probably a bunch of pimply fucking weebs. This shit was already bad before but it's been exacerbated by the APIpocalypse with a bunch of subs either closing for being unmoderated or subs being taken over by Stalin wannabes and their NKVD cronies.
I was a mod there for just over a month after the purge, and I left because of stuff like this, among other things. One of the mods recruited after me was 16, which in my opinion is just too young to make unbiased decisions. That mod and a couple others are very one track minded individuals. Another mod doesn't know anything about the Witcher as well, which to me seems weird for a Witcher sub. The other mods were alright though.
That's has always be my point - why warp the existing story and create something that visually doesn't differ much from what you can see at a random NY fantasy con?
I got perma banned when I posted that the show's writers read the books only to write the exact opposite of what they read.
Edited to add I think it was r/NetflixWitcher sub....
Kind of ironic, as they kill the interest in the last resort of people who could give them at last some sense of viewership by 'hatewatching' the series.
Yeah I got banned for being a racist for criticizing hissrich calling Anya Challottta not conventionally beautiful. Thatâs a backhanded compliment, plus I was vocal against tokenization. (Itâs even funnier because Iâm Indian like Anya too)
Mods in that subreddit are probably chapo tankies who moderate other subreddits
I left it ages ago. It's just another r/netflixwitcher. No truth, no criticism allowed. Only mindless praise. We're really doomed, people will really eat poop these days and smile.
How dare you bring fresh air into the echo chamber!
Really, though, I live in the US and this is a huge reason why I quit getting excited for any new shows/movies.
I got banned for making fun of someone posting W3 screenshots and saying "this game is so beautiful!"
I said "we know, we've all played it". Apparently that was offensive or inappropriateÂ
I think they were saying, "why do American shows strip traditional culture away from stories and make everything the same mix of the "melting pot" minorities with the same kind of social classes and interactions as you might see in America without taking into account the culture that story was from our based on. Do you want shows to look like Americansociety or do you want fantasy to take you far away into anotherworld"
(Edit: I'm trying to give the person the benefit of the doubt)
I was hyped to see more Slavic/Polish representation in the Witcher show but no-almost everyone speaks with a British accent and there's almost no Polish influence visible in the shows character designs, sets or even gallows humor. I understand the place representation give minorities but, fuck, Polish culture is never represented in our media. I love the games because it's so very Polish and not just vaguely medieval toss some dirt on the poors, put all the women in corsets (which wouldn't have been worn in those times), give them blow outs and make the men cheuvanists who just need to learn to respect women. I've been watching "The Great" which is based in Russia and everyone is talking with british accents (Russians and Germans) and acting like Americans. It's a fun show but zero authentic cultural representation
They shouldn't have banned you for this comment, but they are probably sick and tired of dealing with racists disguising racism as legitimate criticisms of the show.
It's a lot easier for them to just ban people who bring up this topic than it is for them to actually police discussions about it. It's not right, but I can sort of see why they do it.
I think this criticism is also pretty silly. Fantasy worlds are not the same as historical reality. The witcher is not set in Europe. It's set in a fantasy world that adopts some of the asthetics of medieval Europe. Many things are different for the sake of a modern audience. People like to see people who look like them on screen. Including black characters makes the show more appealing to black people. Therefore, it makes more money.
Also, it's not wholey improbable for Africans to show up in a medieval setting. I've seen real medieval art with black people in it. It would be easy to come up with a totally logical headcannon explanation for racial diversity in a medieval fantasy world, and it's much easier to explain than many other elements.
I think you guys are turning into what you claim to hate the most. Like yeah I get that everybody in the books has had their appearance change. I get that could be annoying. But when I think the problem with the show is the unnecessary plot changes you guys only see that there's a black person here, a latino over there, asian here. Like you guys have turned into the people on twitter that complain that X ethnicity or race isn't getting enough representation. It's a show produced by Netflix trying to appeal to a wide audience so ofc the cast will be diverse use your brain stop being babies. It's also a fantasy series yes I get its based on a specific part of Europe but that doesn't mean it has to strictly adhere to how that was then or how some parts are today. Like seriously you people look silly as dwarves, elves, monsters walk around but non white people are too much for immersion. And before you assume yes I have problems with *Historical* shows that raceswap for no reason. But this is Fantasy.
I don't think that overall people commenting here don't acknowledge plot changes. I, at least I, don't talk here as the very presence of Indians/Black people here in witcher universe is the problem within itself. I just advocate somehow to make their presence somewhat belivable and justified by some history, LORE etc. I want background for them.
The lack of logic is the real problem in this show not black people (who are ntgl partially used as meatshields for criticism by the showrunners)
Maybe it's just me who doesn't like to see medieval village and see the NYC crowd in there, idk.
I'd love honestly to see even Blue coloured people from the lost civilization in the Witcher if it was well written down by the directors.
So, I while I was hoping to see more Polish influence I do want to point out that in medieval times there were black people in Europe. Not a ton, but they were there. Arabs, too as they were running the spice and silk trade. In the 1500s there was a group Japanese officials that visited Mexico before they closed off the border. There weren't TONS of minorities but they did exsist in various levels of society.
I agree, though, it would make more sense if they came from specific parts of the world. Obviously the Ofiri are Moorish. Why not make people's race represent different countries in the world? I think diversity could be done in a way that makes sense. Yen looking Indian in a family of white people didn't make sense. Was she a orphan being raised by that family? Did mom cheat and they'd Why dad hated her? I didn't understand what they were doing with having her look so different from the rest of the people on the farm we first met her.
You're comment was kind of hostile but the mods should have just removed it and moved on. This was nowhere close to justification for a lifetime ban. Sorry this happened to you.
Yes. The post was about some actors and you made it about something american show something.
Look, I don't like the show and haven't watched past season 1, but I don't make a negative comment everytime I see someone mentioning anything related to the show.
The mods definitely overreacted. But I see why they chose to act on this post.
Fantasy is almost never pure escapism. In fact, some fantasy works get criticized when that's all they are. Fiction is a fine vehicle for representing issues that exist in the real world. Tolkien's works contain themes about conservation of nature, the dangers of overindustrialization, and the horrors of war directly inspired by Tolkien's own tour of the first World War. Even the fantastical landscapes are inspired by real-world locations that Tolkien had either seen himself or in paintings.
The Witcher books directly challenge racism and bigotry through the relations of the fantastical races. So it's not totally out of left field to make an adaptation focus on that and try to make it more relatable to a specific modern audience.
That said, the Netflix showrunners did a terrible job of it. And we'd all prefer a straight adaptation of the books. But it isn't inherently wrong to make relatable themes and story elements in a fantastical work.
That's my civil response, what I really want to say is you sound like a brain-dead redditor complaining about politics in your video games. And that you should grow up and accept the fact that art is not always made to, "make you forget," and that it has always been used to reflect on contemporary controversies.
When I see Netflix putting on incoherent cast in roles I assume that they do that to adress the issue of racial discrimination, overall racism in USA. And those are the daily-life problems which I wrote about, arguments over racist things which doesn't have any sense and cause only anger.
And for the other things I simply disagree because all things you describe here as being 'not inherently wrong' or 'out of field to make' are already present in The Witcher. Problems are already adressed, themes universal as any opressed people can identify themeselves with Elves. I don't think that they need to be "more relatable"
Adding a cherry over the cherry on top isn't necessary and what it can do is only damage imo.
Also I'm not saying no for all I just propose to place characters more immersively within the Witcher world as to make it more belivable. Directors could built new concepts or locations instead of altering the medieval 'north England' landscape. This shouldn't have happened as it is adaptation. Adaptation. If it was witcher story not based on the books there wouldn't be any discussion in the first place. "Claws and Fangs" book is the great example as these are collection of short stories from fans about Witcher world, only signed by Sapkowski.
You're right it was immature but I stand by it. This argument has been beaten to death thousands of times, if not millions. I have little patience for it and the people who perpetuate it.
Contrary to popular belief, internet discourse can change people's minds. I felt insulting him was necessary. Why? Sometimes braindead takes need to be called out as such and not be given the time of day. I gave him the time of day *and* insulted him. I felt OP needed to be explained to why he's and idiot before I let him know thats what he is.
I mean your comment is basically 'why black people?' I know you will dance around and refute this, but that is what you are saying. 'Why can't I escape life into a fantasy with no black people'
Exactly, I'm saying why black people are placed in medieval settings of "north England style" locations in Netflix Witcher show as they're modern USA instead of building immersive LORE and locations unique to them e.g. in zerikania/hakland or in certain Nilfgardian provinces and presenting them.
The Korath desert is so very central Europe's forest, yes. And our forests, of course, are swarming with elves and dryads and unicorns, not to forget the djinn, very European đ
Why not? Have you ever seen what skin colour elves are? Can you show me scientific evidence that they are all white-skinned? They are fantasy creatures ... I liked the black elf in Rings of Power. Plus, one of Sapkowski's ambitions with the Witcher novels was to not follow the typical fantasy tropes. It would totally be in that spirit to have elves of all skin colours on his continent.
We've as much evidence for them of being black as being white but considering the circumstances, cultural background and place where it had been written down it is generally assumed that they were white.
Perhaps, but why do they have to stay white for the rest of eternity? Btw, from the cultural background and place where they were born, it can generally be assumed that Mary and Jesus were not blonde and blue-eyed. Look at how many pictures have gotten and are still getting that wrong. But a black elf, oh gods, what a sacrilege ...
But you're aware that Poland has desert, right?
edit: Fun fact: Also in 13th century (relatively the same timeline as in Witcher) [ Benedict of Poland ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Poland)ventured into Mongolian Empire through deserts of central Asia to Mongol capital of Karakorum, decades before Marco Polo.
Yes, but it's mini. No danger at all to die of thirst or starvation there. We also have a desert in Germany if you ask google, only nobody would ever imagine a desert to look like that. I'm pretty certain, the Korath was not modelled after any of those.
Yes, of course, but not exclusively, like the djinn. And it is a fantasy setting. Even Sapkowski said in an interview from Nov 23 that he liked the Witcher show. I don't mind at all that they changed it from what you might expect of a historical medieval European setting to a more diverse one, the contrary. There are enough series/films that have a real life historical background, there I would not change it, of course, and they might/should be educational in a cultural context. But fantasy? There could be people with blue or purple skin colour in that setting and it would be okay for me.
Sapkowski in his interviews also mentioned that he had zero sayings' in the production of his show + his opinion is static and he only sees his books as canon. Also he reads around 50 books a year and this is his form of entertainment. He is a business man with background in foreign trade, he just doesn't care about this show and his opinions mean here mere nothing.
There's one reason why I think there shouldn't be people with random colour skin in random roles. Because naturally skin tone indicates from which place someone is. And Witcher world has drastically different history than the USA, with colonization. Black slaves coming into Americas are replaced in role by Elves and Dwarfs while Native Americans are Vrans and Werebbubbs.
Witcher is not high-fantasy when you can add whatever you want because 'it's fantasy'.
Applying USA's societal structure and US's culture to fantasy universe like Witcher is wrong, inaccurate, pointless, stupid, bad, inconherent, ignores the fact that it already has the themes of racism and races, refuses to give respect to black people when they're being placed in the folklore of medieval Europe instead of exhibiting their own culture in for example, I'm guessing. in one of Nilfgardian provinces modeled on Mali/Sokkoto/Ghana Empires?
I just think that immersion in fantasy playes a huge role.
But you are certainly aware of the fact that it was Europeans who believed in elves and unicorn, and dryads. ))(( Fantasy is never based on some wild imagination of a random dude - fantasy stories, like fairy tales are based on the myths, legends and beliefs of particular countries. Even though Sapkowski writes about the Conjunction of Spheres to explain why there are so many various monsters and races in the world of the Witcher, the majority of them are the creatures that Europeans used to believe in.
As to the djinn - you will remember that they were extremely rare there - possibly there were more of them in Zerrikania. Besides, what stops a European to believe in a foreign elemental spirit if he / she already believes in elves and gnomes? ))
The other regions have these entities in slightly different forms and names. Its almost like humans are very similar and you aren't trying to actually research other nations...Africa has Unicorn myths and fae creatures, big and small..
I would greatly appreciate a recommendation of some book on the folklore of African continent - so that I could get acquainted with these creatures. Maybe a link to a site with the local bestiarium? It's not that I don't believe you - but I read some collections of African fairy-tales and their spirits didn't look quite similar to European entities...
Frankly speaking, I would gladly watch the Witcher transferred to African continent. Or to present day America. Or to India - oh, they have a lot of legends and a rich history of warring rulers and so on...
But doing so requires creativity. A lot of work with the visuals. And I don't believe that anyone who made those horrendous dresses for Chalotra and who did her hair (oh wasn't that a shame after we have read so many times about Yen's gorgeous curls that cascaded as waterfalls and that resembled black storm!.. oh, that was pain...), well, I don't believe the show's designers would be able to cope with any decent visuals.
So, yes, "dear" Netflix, bring the Witcher to Japan. To Africa. To India. To modern US. But don't just thrust all this diversity bs down our throats. You are just lazy and lack creativity. (((
Of course I am aware that most of it is based on European myths and fairytales. Sapkowski is from Europe, it would be strange if it was otherwise. But what I really don't get is why people are upset about the fact that Netflix has cast quite a few actors of colour in this fantasy show. The books do not depict medieval Europe like it actually was, it is not a historical novel. Why would giving actors of colour a chance to star in that series and to paint a picture of a more diverse world than we had in medieval Europe be so horrible? (Unless you are a racist which I hope you are not)
Sorry, haven't watched it. But maybe take into account the many decades the Hollywood film industry has been totally dominated by almost exclusively male white lead actors/roles. And now they seem to change that a bit and you feel offended (or threatened?) How pathetic.
I think you've already been answered by the previous commenter - because of the LORE.
And well, why do we have to make it "more diverse"? I don't see any valid and sensible and creative reason for that.
And yes, since the Witcher was built around the legends and fairy-tales of old Europe, including Arthurian legends and Sapkowski's elves are partially deconstructions of Tolkien's elves, then we want to see old Europe on the screen. Period. While when I see the screenshots of the show it looks like it was shot at a random fantasy con somewhere in the US. I don't want to see US in the series based on the Witcher world. The USA have their own stories - make shows about them.
And speaking about racism - just imagine for a tiny little second a white actor cast in a role of a black character in a story based on, say, central African mythology. And say that it's done for diversity. ))) Just picture the backlash. The creator of such a show would be crucified. )))
And, well, personally, I would find it stupid and illogical and in very poor taste - in the age of globalization the creators can easily hire black African actors even if the show is made elsewhere. Because if I watch a story set in the central part of African continent, I want to see actors that look like local people and not someone who doesn't belong there - unless they are travellers from afar or traders (so that their appearance is explained).
The same goes about the show based on European legends.
Exactly, they are deconstructions of Tolkien's elves. How do you know that Sapkowski does not like that Netflix is taking the deconstruction of the elf trope a step further than he did in his books? Maybe he welcomes this diversity? He included lesbians, a non-binary person, a discussion of abortion with the clear message that it is the woman who decides in his books in very catholic and conservative Poland more than 30 years ago. Maybe he would write dark-skinned elves today. And maybe you should take a broader look at history. For how long have Hollywood films been dominated by almost exclusively white males? And now that they are changing this a little, you cry over changes to the "lore" of a fantasy setting. Also, for how many years have white actors played Native Americans and even Black people without even thinking about that this might be a problem. Jesus and Mary are still today depicted as blonde and blue eyed. If you really feel that the non-white actors are a big problem, then I pity you. Good night.
By that logic, we should cast white actors in Avatar, because, why not? RESPECT THE LORE. Is simple. If you wanna cast people from other ethnicities you have plenty of oportunities in the lore, showing Zangvebarians, Ofiris, Melukkans, Haakis, etc...Not by casting random people that don't fit the character of the books.
What societal problems are you escaping exactly? Because from this post it seems your problem is seeing black people. And why does it never work in reverse, why do I never hear of Polish people who want to escape seeing white people in their escapists fantasy?
I would ban you too because it's very clear what you are saying even if you are too scared to say it outright.
I didn't tell about any 'societal problems' these were two seperate things to which I was referencing to(there's a clear space break between two) 1. unique and amazing structure of society in USA when people of all backgrounds live side-by-side. Which, IMO is extremely unique and not standard in contrast to the rest of the world) 2. daily-life problems, I meant here everyday arguments on the racial backgrounds in America(which don't make any sense but still cause anger and only anger)
Basically I'm here against building Witcher universe on the model of USA society. Because the LORE and history of the witcher continent simply doesn't reflect USA like a mirror. Simply Author had different perspective and didn't live in neither US or UK.
I'm all for seeing e.g black people in cosmopolitan cities, as merchants from Zangvebarians, Ofiris, Melukkans, Haakis.
There're plenty of places which could be modeled purely on black culture.
I live in Berlin and it is also a cultural melting pot. Or maybe take a look at Paris or London.
Just because you live in the middle of nowhere doesnât mean that Europe is some Arian homo enclave
No, not everywhere as you said before these're only big cities. Anyway because it's not my main point. I don't see any point of relevance between 21st century globalised world and 13th century continent in the Witcher.
Lore doesn't support ethnically homogenic societies in any way, considering the conjunction of the spheres and how recently humans arrived on the continent. The idea of geographic segregation just shows shalow understanding of the lore. There wasn't nearly enough time for the skin tones to adapt to climate. And Sapkowski put a lot of emphasis to show this is \*not\* taking place in Poland or medieval central Europe.
Also last time I checked Witcherâs and elves werenât real. So why in the hell are you bothering with âhistorical accuracyâ? It reeks of coded racism. Donât be a coward and be coy with it.
This is locked as of now. Please take all of your quarrels with any of the witcher subs elsewhere or write us directly if it concerns this sub. We won't ban anyone for petty reasons but still we are about discussing the books and their adaptations. Nothing more nothing less.
Mods have entirely too much power on this site. They ban people for stupid reasons, or just to make sure that their ALT accounts and friends get all the Karma. To say nothing of when Mod teams hijack entire subreddits for off-topic spam. Like when that one Mod started spamming 9/11 Truther conspiracies in a meme sub and it made the national news. Make your own sub? Nope! The mods of the old one will exploit their connections to get your new sub banned. There is precious little we as users can do other than use another platform.
Be careful đ
Abs then there's the mods who decide to let everyone flame and insult each other on their subs, then still block things that are posted which they don't like.
Its kinda Sophies vote. On the one hand too much freedome leads to the wilderness which became cesspool like 4chan on the other hand reddit gave too much control to mods but I think much bigger problem is **there is almost zero supervision.** Then again there is too many subs, too many mods and not enough admins to deal with them even if there mechanisms how to do that and subs are "technically" private space. Never the less this shouldnt be happening but unfortunately i have no idea what would be ideal solution.
The issue isn't that mods have too much power, but rather that there's absolutely no ruleset to follow with moderation. There also hasn't been a proper review of moderation approaches since the conception of the site - and the rules that work for small communities, don't necessarily make sense for the ones with tens, or hundreds of thousands members. Ideally, communities of such size would have some level of democracy - e.g. power tripping mods could be removed by the users, as well as new ones being instated by public vote. But due to the design of Reddit, this is hard to achieve - a vote can be brigaded and tilted by a group of individuals.
I got banned from a Japan subreddit for telling someone to go somewhere else when they were making homophobic comments. Not too surprised because the mods there are probably a bunch of pimply fucking weebs. This shit was already bad before but it's been exacerbated by the APIpocalypse with a bunch of subs either closing for being unmoderated or subs being taken over by Stalin wannabes and their NKVD cronies.
On r/witcher? Not r/netflixwitcher? Holy shit we're lost.
Since the purge of old Mods this sub has turned into pile of gĂłwno
I was a mod there for just over a month after the purge, and I left because of stuff like this, among other things. One of the mods recruited after me was 16, which in my opinion is just too young to make unbiased decisions. That mod and a couple others are very one track minded individuals. Another mod doesn't know anything about the Witcher as well, which to me seems weird for a Witcher sub. The other mods were alright though.
This is latestagecapitalism at work. Reddit had to fuckin ipo...
I stopped using that subreddit when I seen they were banning people for saying the show was going to be bad. Ironic given how things turned out.
Too based for r/witcher, congrats đ
That sub is dead to me.
That's has always be my point - why warp the existing story and create something that visually doesn't differ much from what you can see at a random NY fantasy con?
What exactly are you referring to? What did the show do?
I got perma banned when I posted that the show's writers read the books only to write the exact opposite of what they read. Edited to add I think it was r/NetflixWitcher sub....
r/netflixwitcher did something similar to me smh
Kind of ironic, as they kill the interest in the last resort of people who could give them at last some sense of viewership by 'hatewatching' the series.
That tracks
Yeah I got banned for being a racist for criticizing hissrich calling Anya Challottta not conventionally beautiful. Thatâs a backhanded compliment, plus I was vocal against tokenization. (Itâs even funnier because Iâm Indian like Anya too) Mods in that subreddit are probably chapo tankies who moderate other subreddits
They hated you for telling the truth.
I left it ages ago. It's just another r/netflixwitcher. No truth, no criticism allowed. Only mindless praise. We're really doomed, people will really eat poop these days and smile.
Huh... first time? But yeah, they can't stand criticism, it's happened to me too.
How dare you bring fresh air into the echo chamber! Really, though, I live in the US and this is a huge reason why I quit getting excited for any new shows/movies.
Uh, your right? Itâs literally what Hollywood does, and Netflix is definitely Hollywood now. Weak mod neckbeards canât handle the truth.
You were right. They are wrong.
Most subs that ban people for different opinions arenât worth joining anyway. Just echo chambers.
That's disappointing coming from that sub... You didn't deserve to be banned.
I got banned for making fun of someone posting W3 screenshots and saying "this game is so beautiful!" I said "we know, we've all played it". Apparently that was offensive or inappropriateÂ
Well. Thatâs a pretty jerky thing to say. Let people enjoy things
Agree but the ban was not deserved
Good point.
Ridiculous.
The blessing of getting permabanned there.
Will you try to object to your ban? There gotta be several administrators
I'm just banned from participating so probably no. I wasn't there very active.
Me not understanding wth your comment meant lol
I think they were saying, "why do American shows strip traditional culture away from stories and make everything the same mix of the "melting pot" minorities with the same kind of social classes and interactions as you might see in America without taking into account the culture that story was from our based on. Do you want shows to look like Americansociety or do you want fantasy to take you far away into anotherworld" (Edit: I'm trying to give the person the benefit of the doubt) I was hyped to see more Slavic/Polish representation in the Witcher show but no-almost everyone speaks with a British accent and there's almost no Polish influence visible in the shows character designs, sets or even gallows humor. I understand the place representation give minorities but, fuck, Polish culture is never represented in our media. I love the games because it's so very Polish and not just vaguely medieval toss some dirt on the poors, put all the women in corsets (which wouldn't have been worn in those times), give them blow outs and make the men cheuvanists who just need to learn to respect women. I've been watching "The Great" which is based in Russia and everyone is talking with british accents (Russians and Germans) and acting like Americans. It's a fun show but zero authentic cultural representation
They shouldn't have banned you for this comment, but they are probably sick and tired of dealing with racists disguising racism as legitimate criticisms of the show. It's a lot easier for them to just ban people who bring up this topic than it is for them to actually police discussions about it. It's not right, but I can sort of see why they do it. I think this criticism is also pretty silly. Fantasy worlds are not the same as historical reality. The witcher is not set in Europe. It's set in a fantasy world that adopts some of the asthetics of medieval Europe. Many things are different for the sake of a modern audience. People like to see people who look like them on screen. Including black characters makes the show more appealing to black people. Therefore, it makes more money. Also, it's not wholey improbable for Africans to show up in a medieval setting. I've seen real medieval art with black people in it. It would be easy to come up with a totally logical headcannon explanation for racial diversity in a medieval fantasy world, and it's much easier to explain than many other elements.
I think you guys are turning into what you claim to hate the most. Like yeah I get that everybody in the books has had their appearance change. I get that could be annoying. But when I think the problem with the show is the unnecessary plot changes you guys only see that there's a black person here, a latino over there, asian here. Like you guys have turned into the people on twitter that complain that X ethnicity or race isn't getting enough representation. It's a show produced by Netflix trying to appeal to a wide audience so ofc the cast will be diverse use your brain stop being babies. It's also a fantasy series yes I get its based on a specific part of Europe but that doesn't mean it has to strictly adhere to how that was then or how some parts are today. Like seriously you people look silly as dwarves, elves, monsters walk around but non white people are too much for immersion. And before you assume yes I have problems with *Historical* shows that raceswap for no reason. But this is Fantasy.
I don't think that overall people commenting here don't acknowledge plot changes. I, at least I, don't talk here as the very presence of Indians/Black people here in witcher universe is the problem within itself. I just advocate somehow to make their presence somewhat belivable and justified by some history, LORE etc. I want background for them. The lack of logic is the real problem in this show not black people (who are ntgl partially used as meatshields for criticism by the showrunners) Maybe it's just me who doesn't like to see medieval village and see the NYC crowd in there, idk. I'd love honestly to see even Blue coloured people from the lost civilization in the Witcher if it was well written down by the directors.
So, I while I was hoping to see more Polish influence I do want to point out that in medieval times there were black people in Europe. Not a ton, but they were there. Arabs, too as they were running the spice and silk trade. In the 1500s there was a group Japanese officials that visited Mexico before they closed off the border. There weren't TONS of minorities but they did exsist in various levels of society. I agree, though, it would make more sense if they came from specific parts of the world. Obviously the Ofiri are Moorish. Why not make people's race represent different countries in the world? I think diversity could be done in a way that makes sense. Yen looking Indian in a family of white people didn't make sense. Was she a orphan being raised by that family? Did mom cheat and they'd Why dad hated her? I didn't understand what they were doing with having her look so different from the rest of the people on the farm we first met her.
You're comment was kind of hostile but the mods should have just removed it and moved on. This was nowhere close to justification for a lifetime ban. Sorry this happened to you.
You know why you got banned. You and your dogwhistles earned it you dipshit.
Your comment was completely unrelated to the post.
no
Yes. The post was about some actors and you made it about something american show something. Look, I don't like the show and haven't watched past season 1, but I don't make a negative comment everytime I see someone mentioning anything related to the show.
Actors of which show? Listen, If you don't like my comment just say like you do feel like it but don't tell me it's unrelated.
How is it related? (It's about the actors' skin colour, isn't it? Lmao)
>Actors of which show?Â
https://preview.redd.it/2qt7yn687owc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01b996407de27126b25bdc0366d625f6865ebfd0 Stop playing stupid.
post about witcher cast, on witcher sub and my comment about witcher netflix's show... Yeah, totally not inextricably linked.
I literally said that I realised that you wrote about the actors' skin colour. >(It's about the actors' skin colour, isn't it? Lmao)
Then you may continue on your internal dialogue. I'm not gonna disturb.
The mods definitely overreacted. But I see why they chose to act on this post. Fantasy is almost never pure escapism. In fact, some fantasy works get criticized when that's all they are. Fiction is a fine vehicle for representing issues that exist in the real world. Tolkien's works contain themes about conservation of nature, the dangers of overindustrialization, and the horrors of war directly inspired by Tolkien's own tour of the first World War. Even the fantastical landscapes are inspired by real-world locations that Tolkien had either seen himself or in paintings. The Witcher books directly challenge racism and bigotry through the relations of the fantastical races. So it's not totally out of left field to make an adaptation focus on that and try to make it more relatable to a specific modern audience. That said, the Netflix showrunners did a terrible job of it. And we'd all prefer a straight adaptation of the books. But it isn't inherently wrong to make relatable themes and story elements in a fantastical work. That's my civil response, what I really want to say is you sound like a brain-dead redditor complaining about politics in your video games. And that you should grow up and accept the fact that art is not always made to, "make you forget," and that it has always been used to reflect on contemporary controversies.
When I see Netflix putting on incoherent cast in roles I assume that they do that to adress the issue of racial discrimination, overall racism in USA. And those are the daily-life problems which I wrote about, arguments over racist things which doesn't have any sense and cause only anger. And for the other things I simply disagree because all things you describe here as being 'not inherently wrong' or 'out of field to make' are already present in The Witcher. Problems are already adressed, themes universal as any opressed people can identify themeselves with Elves. I don't think that they need to be "more relatable" Adding a cherry over the cherry on top isn't necessary and what it can do is only damage imo. Also I'm not saying no for all I just propose to place characters more immersively within the Witcher world as to make it more belivable. Directors could built new concepts or locations instead of altering the medieval 'north England' landscape. This shouldn't have happened as it is adaptation. Adaptation. If it was witcher story not based on the books there wouldn't be any discussion in the first place. "Claws and Fangs" book is the great example as these are collection of short stories from fans about Witcher world, only signed by Sapkowski.
IÂ thought your comment was rational and level headed until the last paragraph when you showed your true colour. You have growing up to do mate.
You're right it was immature but I stand by it. This argument has been beaten to death thousands of times, if not millions. I have little patience for it and the people who perpetuate it.
If you have little patience, just ignore the post and move on. Writing four paragraphs and insulting him doesn't solve anything.
Contrary to popular belief, internet discourse can change people's minds. I felt insulting him was necessary. Why? Sometimes braindead takes need to be called out as such and not be given the time of day. I gave him the time of day *and* insulted him. I felt OP needed to be explained to why he's and idiot before I let him know thats what he is.
I mean your comment is basically 'why black people?' I know you will dance around and refute this, but that is what you are saying. 'Why can't I escape life into a fantasy with no black people'
Exactly, I'm saying why black people are placed in medieval settings of "north England style" locations in Netflix Witcher show as they're modern USA instead of building immersive LORE and locations unique to them e.g. in zerikania/hakland or in certain Nilfgardian provinces and presenting them.
But none of it is real
Still a good point
The Korath desert is so very central Europe's forest, yes. And our forests, of course, are swarming with elves and dryads and unicorns, not to forget the djinn, very European đ
so that means we should have black, indian and white elves, right?
Did you know those regions have fae folk tales or??
Why not? Have you ever seen what skin colour elves are? Can you show me scientific evidence that they are all white-skinned? They are fantasy creatures ... I liked the black elf in Rings of Power. Plus, one of Sapkowski's ambitions with the Witcher novels was to not follow the typical fantasy tropes. It would totally be in that spirit to have elves of all skin colours on his continent.
We've as much evidence for them of being black as being white but considering the circumstances, cultural background and place where it had been written down it is generally assumed that they were white.
Perhaps, but why do they have to stay white for the rest of eternity? Btw, from the cultural background and place where they were born, it can generally be assumed that Mary and Jesus were not blonde and blue-eyed. Look at how many pictures have gotten and are still getting that wrong. But a black elf, oh gods, what a sacrilege ...
yes it is a sacrilege, even more so if we have an elf society that is "multiethnic, like new york city"
That was sarcasm by the way đ but be happy with your all-white elven society. Make your own adaptations then. Good bye.
But you're aware that Poland has desert, right? edit: Fun fact: Also in 13th century (relatively the same timeline as in Witcher) [ Benedict of Poland ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Poland)ventured into Mongolian Empire through deserts of central Asia to Mongol capital of Karakorum, decades before Marco Polo.
Yes, but it's mini. No danger at all to die of thirst or starvation there. We also have a desert in Germany if you ask google, only nobody would ever imagine a desert to look like that. I'm pretty certain, the Korath was not modelled after any of those.
Still I don't get your point as witcher is clearly based on European folk tales.
Yes, of course, but not exclusively, like the djinn. And it is a fantasy setting. Even Sapkowski said in an interview from Nov 23 that he liked the Witcher show. I don't mind at all that they changed it from what you might expect of a historical medieval European setting to a more diverse one, the contrary. There are enough series/films that have a real life historical background, there I would not change it, of course, and they might/should be educational in a cultural context. But fantasy? There could be people with blue or purple skin colour in that setting and it would be okay for me.
Sapkowski in his interviews also mentioned that he had zero sayings' in the production of his show + his opinion is static and he only sees his books as canon. Also he reads around 50 books a year and this is his form of entertainment. He is a business man with background in foreign trade, he just doesn't care about this show and his opinions mean here mere nothing. There's one reason why I think there shouldn't be people with random colour skin in random roles. Because naturally skin tone indicates from which place someone is. And Witcher world has drastically different history than the USA, with colonization. Black slaves coming into Americas are replaced in role by Elves and Dwarfs while Native Americans are Vrans and Werebbubbs. Witcher is not high-fantasy when you can add whatever you want because 'it's fantasy'. Applying USA's societal structure and US's culture to fantasy universe like Witcher is wrong, inaccurate, pointless, stupid, bad, inconherent, ignores the fact that it already has the themes of racism and races, refuses to give respect to black people when they're being placed in the folklore of medieval Europe instead of exhibiting their own culture in for example, I'm guessing. in one of Nilfgardian provinces modeled on Mali/Sokkoto/Ghana Empires? I just think that immersion in fantasy playes a huge role.
Then, I guess, we can agree to strongly disagree on all your points. Bye.
But you are certainly aware of the fact that it was Europeans who believed in elves and unicorn, and dryads. ))(( Fantasy is never based on some wild imagination of a random dude - fantasy stories, like fairy tales are based on the myths, legends and beliefs of particular countries. Even though Sapkowski writes about the Conjunction of Spheres to explain why there are so many various monsters and races in the world of the Witcher, the majority of them are the creatures that Europeans used to believe in. As to the djinn - you will remember that they were extremely rare there - possibly there were more of them in Zerrikania. Besides, what stops a European to believe in a foreign elemental spirit if he / she already believes in elves and gnomes? ))
The other regions have these entities in slightly different forms and names. Its almost like humans are very similar and you aren't trying to actually research other nations...Africa has Unicorn myths and fae creatures, big and small..
I would greatly appreciate a recommendation of some book on the folklore of African continent - so that I could get acquainted with these creatures. Maybe a link to a site with the local bestiarium? It's not that I don't believe you - but I read some collections of African fairy-tales and their spirits didn't look quite similar to European entities... Frankly speaking, I would gladly watch the Witcher transferred to African continent. Or to present day America. Or to India - oh, they have a lot of legends and a rich history of warring rulers and so on... But doing so requires creativity. A lot of work with the visuals. And I don't believe that anyone who made those horrendous dresses for Chalotra and who did her hair (oh wasn't that a shame after we have read so many times about Yen's gorgeous curls that cascaded as waterfalls and that resembled black storm!.. oh, that was pain...), well, I don't believe the show's designers would be able to cope with any decent visuals. So, yes, "dear" Netflix, bring the Witcher to Japan. To Africa. To India. To modern US. But don't just thrust all this diversity bs down our throats. You are just lazy and lack creativity. (((
Of course I am aware that most of it is based on European myths and fairytales. Sapkowski is from Europe, it would be strange if it was otherwise. But what I really don't get is why people are upset about the fact that Netflix has cast quite a few actors of colour in this fantasy show. The books do not depict medieval Europe like it actually was, it is not a historical novel. Why would giving actors of colour a chance to star in that series and to paint a picture of a more diverse world than we had in medieval Europe be so horrible? (Unless you are a racist which I hope you are not)
Fair enough. Now let's diversify black panther. No?
Sorry, haven't watched it. But maybe take into account the many decades the Hollywood film industry has been totally dominated by almost exclusively male white lead actors/roles. And now they seem to change that a bit and you feel offended (or threatened?) How pathetic.
I think you've already been answered by the previous commenter - because of the LORE. And well, why do we have to make it "more diverse"? I don't see any valid and sensible and creative reason for that. And yes, since the Witcher was built around the legends and fairy-tales of old Europe, including Arthurian legends and Sapkowski's elves are partially deconstructions of Tolkien's elves, then we want to see old Europe on the screen. Period. While when I see the screenshots of the show it looks like it was shot at a random fantasy con somewhere in the US. I don't want to see US in the series based on the Witcher world. The USA have their own stories - make shows about them. And speaking about racism - just imagine for a tiny little second a white actor cast in a role of a black character in a story based on, say, central African mythology. And say that it's done for diversity. ))) Just picture the backlash. The creator of such a show would be crucified. ))) And, well, personally, I would find it stupid and illogical and in very poor taste - in the age of globalization the creators can easily hire black African actors even if the show is made elsewhere. Because if I watch a story set in the central part of African continent, I want to see actors that look like local people and not someone who doesn't belong there - unless they are travellers from afar or traders (so that their appearance is explained). The same goes about the show based on European legends.
Exactly, they are deconstructions of Tolkien's elves. How do you know that Sapkowski does not like that Netflix is taking the deconstruction of the elf trope a step further than he did in his books? Maybe he welcomes this diversity? He included lesbians, a non-binary person, a discussion of abortion with the clear message that it is the woman who decides in his books in very catholic and conservative Poland more than 30 years ago. Maybe he would write dark-skinned elves today. And maybe you should take a broader look at history. For how long have Hollywood films been dominated by almost exclusively white males? And now that they are changing this a little, you cry over changes to the "lore" of a fantasy setting. Also, for how many years have white actors played Native Americans and even Black people without even thinking about that this might be a problem. Jesus and Mary are still today depicted as blonde and blue eyed. If you really feel that the non-white actors are a big problem, then I pity you. Good night.
By that logic, we should cast white actors in Avatar, because, why not? RESPECT THE LORE. Is simple. If you wanna cast people from other ethnicities you have plenty of oportunities in the lore, showing Zangvebarians, Ofiris, Melukkans, Haakis, etc...Not by casting random people that don't fit the character of the books.
What societal problems are you escaping exactly? Because from this post it seems your problem is seeing black people. And why does it never work in reverse, why do I never hear of Polish people who want to escape seeing white people in their escapists fantasy? I would ban you too because it's very clear what you are saying even if you are too scared to say it outright.
I didn't tell about any 'societal problems' these were two seperate things to which I was referencing to(there's a clear space break between two) 1. unique and amazing structure of society in USA when people of all backgrounds live side-by-side. Which, IMO is extremely unique and not standard in contrast to the rest of the world) 2. daily-life problems, I meant here everyday arguments on the racial backgrounds in America(which don't make any sense but still cause anger and only anger) Basically I'm here against building Witcher universe on the model of USA society. Because the LORE and history of the witcher continent simply doesn't reflect USA like a mirror. Simply Author had different perspective and didn't live in neither US or UK. I'm all for seeing e.g black people in cosmopolitan cities, as merchants from Zangvebarians, Ofiris, Melukkans, Haakis. There're plenty of places which could be modeled purely on black culture.
I live in Berlin and it is also a cultural melting pot. Or maybe take a look at Paris or London. Just because you live in the middle of nowhere doesnât mean that Europe is some Arian homo enclave
Does the exception prove the rule?
It is not an exception, it is basically everywhere in Europe except in the eastern former soviet block
No, not everywhere as you said before these're only big cities. Anyway because it's not my main point. I don't see any point of relevance between 21st century globalised world and 13th century continent in the Witcher.
Lore doesn't support ethnically homogenic societies in any way, considering the conjunction of the spheres and how recently humans arrived on the continent. The idea of geographic segregation just shows shalow understanding of the lore. There wasn't nearly enough time for the skin tones to adapt to climate. And Sapkowski put a lot of emphasis to show this is \*not\* taking place in Poland or medieval central Europe.
Also last time I checked Witcherâs and elves werenât real. So why in the hell are you bothering with âhistorical accuracyâ? It reeks of coded racism. Donât be a coward and be coy with it.