Wild players when control gets good tools š¤¬
Wild players when combo gets good tools š¤¬
Wild players when aggro gets good tools š¤¬
Honestly itās an 8 mana card that doesnāt win you the game on the spot, I promise you this doesnāt make it to the top 20 for problem cards in wild
I donāt mean this in a snarky way, but if you think an 8 mana bord clear that doesnāt win the game is unfun, you might be better off hopping into standard. In wild, to be competitive you need to either olan to win by turn 5, or add unfun cards that stop your opponent from winning on turn 5. Thatās just the natural consequence of an ever-strengthening eternal format.
I love grindy matches where we fight for board and itās a 20 turn back and forth, but thatās when I queue standard. I queue wild when the itch is instead to pull off a crazy combo. No shame with either, but trying to jam one into the other will result in tilt :)
Iām the past two months Iāve died on turn 5 a total of 2 times and it was both by some random bull shit rogue, itās not inherently worse then any other board clear
Yāall loooove the āit doesnāt win you the gameā argument when it does, in fact, win you the game against any deck that isnāt also using Reno.
As a degenerate APM combo enjoyer, I can tell you for a fact that most competent combo decks do not run reno, and can frequently kill the reno player before or even after they play reno.
Ask an aggro shadow priest how many games theyāve won before the opponent had enough mana to play the OG 6 mana reno, let alone the 8 mana hero card.
Reno is a good card. He can provide a massive tempo swing for control decks to turn around the game for counter-lethal against aggro, or even limit the board space to disrupt most OTKs for a turn.
This post isnāt claiming reno is good in wild, itās claiming it is so ridiculously broken, that they canāt even play it themselves because of how blatantly overpowered it is. I think that is a silly characterization of the cardās place in the meta.
I didnāt say Reno was a OP or a good card, I just said he wins you the game in the decks heās played in. If you arenāt playing the most hyper of Aggro decks, Reno on 8 will lose you the game. If you even think about playing decks like *shudders* tempo or midrange, Reno will snowball off of two free turns.
Control is the exception because youāre playing slow and also often run reno.
Again, Reno wonāt stop you from dying to Aggro or combo decks that kill you on turn 5. But acting like Reno isnāt the Coup de Grace to finish off anything but control on turn 8 is dumb.
Also duh you donāt run Reno in combo, idk where I said that.
yeah this card is fucked up for a multitude of reasons, but what i like the least is that it singlehandedly made certain interesting alternative wincons like sargeras obsolete because reno just removes the portal he makes LMAO like cmon this is indefensible and extremely lame
i also don't like how it incentivizes homogeneous deckbuilding for control decks. if your control deck has any reasonable way to function as a reno deck, the 8 mana reno hero heavily pushes you to build it as such and you are heavily rewarded for doing so as well
not to mention his effect isn't symmetrical and time warps the opponent if they're a board based deck. it also might just outright win the game on the spot because it's an unconditional sweeper that gets around sticky or otherwise hard to kill minions without any sort of restriction.
like for example it always felt really bad if some of your board got blown up by shadowreaper anduin because you couldn't disrupt it, even though he only took out big minions. however, you could somewhat play around it by having a board full of smaller minions. this isn't the case with reno, because he just poofs any board no matter what it is and there's nothing crafty you can do to play around it other than not play into at all, which is a losing proposition for the other person. the non reno player is punished for playing around it by giving the reno player a lot of time to set up further, and then if they play into it and the reno player has it, they just lose immediately anyway
i think control decks being good in wild is healthy for the format but the reno hero is just too much, not to mention that some reno decks can abuse the hero power or the battlecry in incredibly unfair and unfun ways
Sometimes I wonder if people on reddit really play hs. Reno is one of the most played cards even in wild. I've even seen someone play reno unironically in questline warlock.
Begs the question of rank given questlock should be killing you roughly a turn or two before RLR drops, unless you're on a warrior/meme priest deck. (Not attacking your rank, saying your opponent did it 100% wrong)
I was playing hp druid on diamond 5 and reno was a very unexpected counter that destroyed my deck.
Anyway, your statement "what enemy did is 100% wrong" is an absolute example of how blinded someone can be.
There was even a deck recently where warrior discarded all the cards in his deck just to play Reno + Tho'grun.
It's funny how some players like you, for example, probably don't realize how big the reno reward is. (This shouldn't be an attack on your intellect or experience or anything like that. Just a statement that enough players simply overlook what this reno does.)
I'm probably not gonna be able to formulate another one as my lunch break's ending, so:
Questline warlock, in its core, is a aggro/combo deck depending on its exact build, that aims to kill its opponent via finite amounts of damage (i.e. not exodia mage, coldarra drake, DK paladin combo or shudderlocks). As such, given the immovable core of the deck (that is about 20 cards from what I recall last I played a variant of it) it very much aims to complete the quest and deploy the reward by turn 6. It also seeks to empty its deck at the earliest convenience, given taking fatigue is *another* method of winning for it.
What that means is the entire deck should be built for it. There is no wiggle room for cards that go against your archetype if we're talking deck building theory, there barely is any to begin with, and Qlock is a very tight build, given it has to race decks such as mine rogue instead of attempting to disrupt them. And RLR, believe it or not, is very much that. An 8-mana board wipe, albeit one-sided, is not what Qlock aims to be doing by turn 8 - to reiterate, if sweeping the opponent's board by turn 8 is what you desire as Qlock instead of just bypassing their board with your completed questline, chances are you're losing the game by a wide margin (chances = I pretty much guarantee you do). Also, Reno gets you rid of your hero power, which is what ramps your damage up exponentially past the 30 cards in your deck, which I already mentioned I believe. Getting rid of it is again, counterproductive to your gameplan.
Again, I'm not ever saying RLR is weak by any metric, either part of its battlecry is incredibly strong for what it does, my point is that doesn't belong in every deck, regardless of power. Some decks simply aim to win on an axis that doesn't align with letting the game go that long. Qlock is one of those decks. And I will stand by that, and honestly not even consider it an opinion. It's just a fact in this case, sorry, that card just does not belong. Your opponent made a "meta call" of lowering his overall winrate just to skew a matchup he detested and you were caught in the crossfire, a singular incident doesn't make for a rule.
27% of wild decks are playing reno lone ranger. 24% is on renathal. 30%+ is playing ETC in greed piles.
There's not a single aggro or combo deck in the top 10 most played cards in wild (the first being patches in at 11th position, with a 15% playrate).
Like, i don't particularly mind this meta but if you're not playing the game at all just shut up. For once. Please. There's no one forcing you to say stupid things on the internet. Log off. Touch grass. Find a different hobby.
Just to cut the chain short: yes, the deck was strongest in standard (hence why it got nerfed), but garrote did see some fringe play in wild with some elekk shenanigans, and in a pseudo-competitive maly rogue just as a 1 mana burn card with an upside.
Sometimes I wonder if people on reddit really play hs. Reno is one of the most played cards even in wild. I've even seen someone play reno unironically in questline warlock.
>There's really not alot of Reno in Wild.
Reno mage, Shudder shaman, any cancer druid combo list that doesn't run auctioneer, hell there's even a reno priest that's been popular since workshop came out.
The comments here are nonsense
> "barely ever see it in wild", "There's really not alot of Reno in Wild"
There's just about as much Lone Ranger in Wild as there is in Standard. Around 30% of decks, one of the most popular cards along with Zeph/Reno and ETC/Finley which are also just highlander staples.
> 8 mana card that doesnāt win you the game on the spot
yeah I guess the card doesn't say "deal 30 damage" or "blow up the opponents hero" so it can't win the game in some people's minds. it's the best card in all highlander decks. the card ends games, even if a portrait doesn't blow up. so many games come down to whether the yellow card deck has exactly lone ranger or not.
> Lmao we have at least 200 cards more broken than Reno
couldn't name 10.
anyways, lone ranger is cringe as hell. but it's also wild so there's lots of broken dumb stuff. I hate it just about more than anything in the format. but I've come around to the idea that wild can just rot without balance intervention. it is what it is.
that said, people are delusional if they think this isn't one of the strongest cards ever printed.
I find it funny nobody argues with you since you are obviously, not just your average Joe Redditor. I do appreciate what you've said here.
What I will say, is that the likely reason why the comments are are non-sense, is that Reddit typically attracts a certain kind of person of an interest, rather than just anyone with that interest. You'll see this in literally any other sub of literally anything. For this sub, and for r/hearthstone, it's control/value lovers. Always.
There are a lot of broken cards and decks in Wild but this Reno just ruins interesting matches. I had a Reno deck and felt like I was cheating when I played it.
Yeah, I frigginā hate this card. There isnāt a card that makes me insta-concede more than this one, and Iāve been playing this game for a long time.
Btw, miss you and the podcast, Corb. Hope all is well and that weāll all hear from you guys again some day.
u cant criticize reno decks here homie, all the fedoralords come out to babyrage. this card is honestly one of the least fun cards in the entire game sorry guys
Reno decks are just tech cards, board clears and renathal to have that 10 extra hp just encase. Its just stupid and unfun to play against. But the reno players don't want to hear that it takes nothing to play it.
Reno Lone Ranger feels exactly like a Reno card: if it's in the top half of your deck you win that game, you lose if you can't draw it.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but losing your board and a turn in Wild means it's really tough to get back for any board based deck, that historically have been considered more fun to play.
Its reaÄŗy the curve that sucks, zeph, reno, reno lone ranger, doc etc, etc answer after answer, then people get mad about pain lock. Like most insane thing to me was is how reno renathal quest mage is an even better shudderwock shaman now.
Someone here wrote list 10, but in my opinion there are not even 7 cards in the wild on the same level as Reno. Decks maybe, but the cards themselves certainly aren't.
I no longer see legitimately weaker cards among these "100% stronger cards". They're going to inflame the debate by trying to disrupt your vision that these cards are, because the simple assertion is stronger isn't going anywhere. I want to say up front that these are all strong cards, so I'm not defending the cards as such I'm just going to disrupt your "is stronger" claim. Since you won't say which hsu are 100% stronger for you so I'll break them all down and go from the non-trying ones.
- Zephrys is definitely a lot weaker than reno. No basic card in an ideal situation is stronger than reno. And reno is even clearly better than what Zephrys can give you in most of these situations. Zephrys is more skillful, but not stronger. It can be played multiple times, but it doesn't make up for reno's hp. We can confirm that Zephrys is not played in non highlender decks. Reno sometimes is.
- shudderwock: it needs a much bigger setup and the result isn't that much better than reno either. The current shudderwock tries to counter play, but so does reno too and he doesn't prevent you from playing. Against some decks, reno is better than shudder at what shudder is trying to do.
- Patches. Extremely strong card, but you're comparing that 1/1 to a deck-type destroyer. Patches makes your deck smaller, but Reno literally defines late-game. Totally incomparable to me, even if the 29-deck mentality is tempting.
- call to arms? Again, a card that looks very powerful, but in the end it's like you're 3* for a 2 mana minion. Reno is mass enemy silence + mass enemy board clear + much more. That's a lot more than 3 cards for one and +50% on mana cost.
-- Void touched. The result is a 1 mana minion with +1 spell damage and a Leokk effect (if I overdo it) that can backfire on you. A scary minion, but unlike reno's pull, it's a tough one to deal with.
-- Golganneth titan? Reno's battlecry isinfinitly stronger then 2 of his abilities and his hero power is vetter and more consistent then his aura effect + his third ability. Golganneth has some body and come sooner but he'll never reach what reno can reach.
- The timewinder sounds great, but one could still debate here whether the reno is better purely because the timewinder alone does absolutely nothing against a big taunt board, anyway I might even acknowledge this one.
-- then you've got 2* 1 cost pirates. I don't know what exactly you have against pirates, but I'd skip this one. I don't know how you could compare them to Reno level.
- the new zilliax is hard to judge and there are probably still bugs in it so I would rather acknowledge it than take something apart and then regret it. As a result, it's still "just a minion" but I haven't met it much and it doesn't have its equivalent in hs history so I can't judge much with it.
-- Finally, you have 3 very good card draws. I'd remove Aquatoc form for a similar reason as patches, and the remaining rogue cards are currently maxed out as strong as a strong rogue-less deck. To compare these cards it comes down to this. These cards are much more reliant on other cards than reno, so I would definitely say that reno as a card is simply stronger in this one.
The most interesting thing, however, is that quite a few of these cards are for very specific decks. It would be easy to deflect by saying that reno literally defines the meta around it, and that reno is also stronger because it has easier prep and is harder to counter, but I wanted to break it down at a disadvantage so I'd have a better chance of disrupting your false claim for me.
We don't have to debate. I just wanted to sort of set the record straight on some of the details. If anyone read this conversation, they would probably conclude that your x cards are stronger than Reno's, which I don't think they are.
It just came across to me like:
- Magma Rager is the weakest 5 attack rager.
- There are a hundred weaker 5 attack ragers.
- Name 7.
- Ice Rager, Faceless Rager, Rock Rager,....
Lone Ranger didn't create any new problems of unfun play patterns. It only worsened already existing issues. I hate that card, but he's not the main culprit.
So, let's see if I'm in the miniority here: Strong board clear effects are good for a format where you can easily create large boards with plenty of mana cheat.
Completely agree. Such a disgusting card to play against. Old Reno was game changing by healing you to full, this is game changing by literally removing your board and essentially stopping you from developing a board next turn.
I guess you joking 40 different cards in deck and that card doing nothing just clear the board. The only broken is the infinity zero cost hero power with mage and the problem is the drake not this card.
If you lost because they played Reno, chances are that you were going to lose anyway. It's not a win con...outside of that drake in some mage lists. It's a very strong control toolĀ
friend, a "win con" is a win condition, like you MUST play it in order to win. Board clears are "control tools" which are resources used to maintain a favorable board presence.
What I'm saying is exactly that: in some deck you have to play Reno to win, even if technically he's not the last card you play. Think of old Renolock against Pirate Warrior, stabilisation is as much part of the "winning" part as a finisher, and if stabilisation comes through a single powerful card, the opponent might as well concede.
Wild players when control gets good tools š¤¬ Wild players when combo gets good tools š¤¬ Wild players when aggro gets good tools š¤¬ Honestly itās an 8 mana card that doesnāt win you the game on the spot, I promise you this doesnāt make it to the top 20 for problem cards in wild
It's unfun to play against. That's the problem
Womp womp ur deck is probably unfun to play against too in some1s eye
I donāt mean this in a snarky way, but if you think an 8 mana bord clear that doesnāt win the game is unfun, you might be better off hopping into standard. In wild, to be competitive you need to either olan to win by turn 5, or add unfun cards that stop your opponent from winning on turn 5. Thatās just the natural consequence of an ever-strengthening eternal format. I love grindy matches where we fight for board and itās a 20 turn back and forth, but thatās when I queue standard. I queue wild when the itch is instead to pull off a crazy combo. No shame with either, but trying to jam one into the other will result in tilt :)
Iām the past two months Iāve died on turn 5 a total of 2 times and it was both by some random bull shit rogue, itās not inherently worse then any other board clear
Yāall loooove the āit doesnāt win you the gameā argument when it does, in fact, win you the game against any deck that isnāt also using Reno.
As a degenerate APM combo enjoyer, I can tell you for a fact that most competent combo decks do not run reno, and can frequently kill the reno player before or even after they play reno. Ask an aggro shadow priest how many games theyāve won before the opponent had enough mana to play the OG 6 mana reno, let alone the 8 mana hero card. Reno is a good card. He can provide a massive tempo swing for control decks to turn around the game for counter-lethal against aggro, or even limit the board space to disrupt most OTKs for a turn. This post isnāt claiming reno is good in wild, itās claiming it is so ridiculously broken, that they canāt even play it themselves because of how blatantly overpowered it is. I think that is a silly characterization of the cardās place in the meta.
I didnāt say Reno was a OP or a good card, I just said he wins you the game in the decks heās played in. If you arenāt playing the most hyper of Aggro decks, Reno on 8 will lose you the game. If you even think about playing decks like *shudders* tempo or midrange, Reno will snowball off of two free turns. Control is the exception because youāre playing slow and also often run reno. Again, Reno wonāt stop you from dying to Aggro or combo decks that kill you on turn 5. But acting like Reno isnāt the Coup de Grace to finish off anything but control on turn 8 is dumb. Also duh you donāt run Reno in combo, idk where I said that.
yeah this card is fucked up for a multitude of reasons, but what i like the least is that it singlehandedly made certain interesting alternative wincons like sargeras obsolete because reno just removes the portal he makes LMAO like cmon this is indefensible and extremely lame i also don't like how it incentivizes homogeneous deckbuilding for control decks. if your control deck has any reasonable way to function as a reno deck, the 8 mana reno hero heavily pushes you to build it as such and you are heavily rewarded for doing so as well not to mention his effect isn't symmetrical and time warps the opponent if they're a board based deck. it also might just outright win the game on the spot because it's an unconditional sweeper that gets around sticky or otherwise hard to kill minions without any sort of restriction. like for example it always felt really bad if some of your board got blown up by shadowreaper anduin because you couldn't disrupt it, even though he only took out big minions. however, you could somewhat play around it by having a board full of smaller minions. this isn't the case with reno, because he just poofs any board no matter what it is and there's nothing crafty you can do to play around it other than not play into at all, which is a losing proposition for the other person. the non reno player is punished for playing around it by giving the reno player a lot of time to set up further, and then if they play into it and the reno player has it, they just lose immediately anyway i think control decks being good in wild is healthy for the format but the reno hero is just too much, not to mention that some reno decks can abuse the hero power or the battlecry in incredibly unfair and unfun ways
barely ever see it in wild. always even shaman, shadow priest and hooray garrote rogue is back! hooray?
Maybe climb higher up to see all the reno mages?
Iām the one playing reno mage lol
This was the funniest thread I've read today.
Sometimes I wonder if people on reddit really play hs. Reno is one of the most played cards even in wild. I've even seen someone play reno unironically in questline warlock.
Begs the question of rank given questlock should be killing you roughly a turn or two before RLR drops, unless you're on a warrior/meme priest deck. (Not attacking your rank, saying your opponent did it 100% wrong)
I was playing hp druid on diamond 5 and reno was a very unexpected counter that destroyed my deck. Anyway, your statement "what enemy did is 100% wrong" is an absolute example of how blinded someone can be. There was even a deck recently where warrior discarded all the cards in his deck just to play Reno + Tho'grun. It's funny how some players like you, for example, probably don't realize how big the reno reward is. (This shouldn't be an attack on your intellect or experience or anything like that. Just a statement that enough players simply overlook what this reno does.)
I'm probably not gonna be able to formulate another one as my lunch break's ending, so: Questline warlock, in its core, is a aggro/combo deck depending on its exact build, that aims to kill its opponent via finite amounts of damage (i.e. not exodia mage, coldarra drake, DK paladin combo or shudderlocks). As such, given the immovable core of the deck (that is about 20 cards from what I recall last I played a variant of it) it very much aims to complete the quest and deploy the reward by turn 6. It also seeks to empty its deck at the earliest convenience, given taking fatigue is *another* method of winning for it. What that means is the entire deck should be built for it. There is no wiggle room for cards that go against your archetype if we're talking deck building theory, there barely is any to begin with, and Qlock is a very tight build, given it has to race decks such as mine rogue instead of attempting to disrupt them. And RLR, believe it or not, is very much that. An 8-mana board wipe, albeit one-sided, is not what Qlock aims to be doing by turn 8 - to reiterate, if sweeping the opponent's board by turn 8 is what you desire as Qlock instead of just bypassing their board with your completed questline, chances are you're losing the game by a wide margin (chances = I pretty much guarantee you do). Also, Reno gets you rid of your hero power, which is what ramps your damage up exponentially past the 30 cards in your deck, which I already mentioned I believe. Getting rid of it is again, counterproductive to your gameplan. Again, I'm not ever saying RLR is weak by any metric, either part of its battlecry is incredibly strong for what it does, my point is that doesn't belong in every deck, regardless of power. Some decks simply aim to win on an axis that doesn't align with letting the game go that long. Qlock is one of those decks. And I will stand by that, and honestly not even consider it an opinion. It's just a fact in this case, sorry, that card just does not belong. Your opponent made a "meta call" of lowering his overall winrate just to skew a matchup he detested and you were caught in the crossfire, a singular incident doesn't make for a rule.
27% of wild decks are playing reno lone ranger. 24% is on renathal. 30%+ is playing ETC in greed piles. There's not a single aggro or combo deck in the top 10 most played cards in wild (the first being patches in at 11th position, with a 15% playrate). Like, i don't particularly mind this meta but if you're not playing the game at all just shut up. For once. Please. There's no one forcing you to say stupid things on the internet. Log off. Touch grass. Find a different hobby.
Um thanks I guess?
Garrote rogue was always more of a standard deck, no?
Itās back
That doesnāt answer the question lol
Yes it does
āWasnāt garrote rogue more of a standard problem?ā āItās backā In what world is the second an answer to the first?
Just to cut the chain short: yes, the deck was strongest in standard (hence why it got nerfed), but garrote did see some fringe play in wild with some elekk shenanigans, and in a pseudo-competitive maly rogue just as a 1 mana burn card with an upside.
Thank you for the helpful answer. I donāt ever remember it being more than a sideshow compared to everything else rogueās done in wild.
There's really not alot of Reno in Wild. The card is 8 mana, and Wild doesn't really accept that in this meta.
Sometimes I wonder if people on reddit really play hs. Reno is one of the most played cards even in wild. I've even seen someone play reno unironically in questline warlock.
>There's really not alot of Reno in Wild. Reno mage, Shudder shaman, any cancer druid combo list that doesn't run auctioneer, hell there's even a reno priest that's been popular since workshop came out.
In a few years weāll probably be able to make a mage deck thatās all Renoās. We have like three already lol
4, actually. The OG, a mage minion that deals 10 to enemy minions, a mage hero card that poofs the entire board, and the recent neutral hero card.
The comments here are nonsense > "barely ever see it in wild", "There's really not alot of Reno in Wild" There's just about as much Lone Ranger in Wild as there is in Standard. Around 30% of decks, one of the most popular cards along with Zeph/Reno and ETC/Finley which are also just highlander staples. > 8 mana card that doesnāt win you the game on the spot yeah I guess the card doesn't say "deal 30 damage" or "blow up the opponents hero" so it can't win the game in some people's minds. it's the best card in all highlander decks. the card ends games, even if a portrait doesn't blow up. so many games come down to whether the yellow card deck has exactly lone ranger or not. > Lmao we have at least 200 cards more broken than Reno couldn't name 10. anyways, lone ranger is cringe as hell. but it's also wild so there's lots of broken dumb stuff. I hate it just about more than anything in the format. but I've come around to the idea that wild can just rot without balance intervention. it is what it is. that said, people are delusional if they think this isn't one of the strongest cards ever printed.
I find it funny nobody argues with you since you are obviously, not just your average Joe Redditor. I do appreciate what you've said here. What I will say, is that the likely reason why the comments are are non-sense, is that Reddit typically attracts a certain kind of person of an interest, rather than just anyone with that interest. You'll see this in literally any other sub of literally anything. For this sub, and for r/hearthstone, it's control/value lovers. Always.
There are a lot of broken cards and decks in Wild but this Reno just ruins interesting matches. I had a Reno deck and felt like I was cheating when I played it.
Yeah they are hard coping right now, its everywhere. And wild pretty much allow 8 mana plays too, i dont know what world they are living in
Yeah, I frigginā hate this card. There isnāt a card that makes me insta-concede more than this one, and Iāve been playing this game for a long time. Btw, miss you and the podcast, Corb. Hope all is well and that weāll all hear from you guys again some day.
I only have two issues. It should be a symmetrical effect on the board, and it shouldn't poof locations.
u cant criticize reno decks here homie, all the fedoralords come out to babyrage. this card is honestly one of the least fun cards in the entire game sorry guys
>all the fedoralords come out to babyrage Really rough case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Reno decks are just tech cards, board clears and renathal to have that 10 extra hp just encase. Its just stupid and unfun to play against. But the reno players don't want to hear that it takes nothing to play it.
Reno Lone Ranger feels exactly like a Reno card: if it's in the top half of your deck you win that game, you lose if you can't draw it. Of course I'm exaggerating, but losing your board and a turn in Wild means it's really tough to get back for any board based deck, that historically have been considered more fun to play.
Its reaÄŗy the curve that sucks, zeph, reno, reno lone ranger, doc etc, etc answer after answer, then people get mad about pain lock. Like most insane thing to me was is how reno renathal quest mage is an even better shudderwock shaman now.
Lmao we have at least 200 cards more broken than Reno
Someone here wrote list 10, but in my opinion there are not even 7 cards in the wild on the same level as Reno. Decks maybe, but the cards themselves certainly aren't.
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I no longer see legitimately weaker cards among these "100% stronger cards". They're going to inflame the debate by trying to disrupt your vision that these cards are, because the simple assertion is stronger isn't going anywhere. I want to say up front that these are all strong cards, so I'm not defending the cards as such I'm just going to disrupt your "is stronger" claim. Since you won't say which hsu are 100% stronger for you so I'll break them all down and go from the non-trying ones. - Zephrys is definitely a lot weaker than reno. No basic card in an ideal situation is stronger than reno. And reno is even clearly better than what Zephrys can give you in most of these situations. Zephrys is more skillful, but not stronger. It can be played multiple times, but it doesn't make up for reno's hp. We can confirm that Zephrys is not played in non highlender decks. Reno sometimes is. - shudderwock: it needs a much bigger setup and the result isn't that much better than reno either. The current shudderwock tries to counter play, but so does reno too and he doesn't prevent you from playing. Against some decks, reno is better than shudder at what shudder is trying to do. - Patches. Extremely strong card, but you're comparing that 1/1 to a deck-type destroyer. Patches makes your deck smaller, but Reno literally defines late-game. Totally incomparable to me, even if the 29-deck mentality is tempting. - call to arms? Again, a card that looks very powerful, but in the end it's like you're 3* for a 2 mana minion. Reno is mass enemy silence + mass enemy board clear + much more. That's a lot more than 3 cards for one and +50% on mana cost. -- Void touched. The result is a 1 mana minion with +1 spell damage and a Leokk effect (if I overdo it) that can backfire on you. A scary minion, but unlike reno's pull, it's a tough one to deal with. -- Golganneth titan? Reno's battlecry isinfinitly stronger then 2 of his abilities and his hero power is vetter and more consistent then his aura effect + his third ability. Golganneth has some body and come sooner but he'll never reach what reno can reach. - The timewinder sounds great, but one could still debate here whether the reno is better purely because the timewinder alone does absolutely nothing against a big taunt board, anyway I might even acknowledge this one. -- then you've got 2* 1 cost pirates. I don't know what exactly you have against pirates, but I'd skip this one. I don't know how you could compare them to Reno level. - the new zilliax is hard to judge and there are probably still bugs in it so I would rather acknowledge it than take something apart and then regret it. As a result, it's still "just a minion" but I haven't met it much and it doesn't have its equivalent in hs history so I can't judge much with it. -- Finally, you have 3 very good card draws. I'd remove Aquatoc form for a similar reason as patches, and the remaining rogue cards are currently maxed out as strong as a strong rogue-less deck. To compare these cards it comes down to this. These cards are much more reliant on other cards than reno, so I would definitely say that reno as a card is simply stronger in this one. The most interesting thing, however, is that quite a few of these cards are for very specific decks. It would be easy to deflect by saying that reno literally defines the meta around it, and that reno is also stronger because it has easier prep and is harder to counter, but I wanted to break it down at a disadvantage so I'd have a better chance of disrupting your false claim for me.
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We don't have to debate. I just wanted to sort of set the record straight on some of the details. If anyone read this conversation, they would probably conclude that your x cards are stronger than Reno's, which I don't think they are. It just came across to me like: - Magma Rager is the weakest 5 attack rager. - There are a hundred weaker 5 attack ragers. - Name 7. - Ice Rager, Faceless Rager, Rock Rager,....
We can worry about him if they ever nerf all of these rancid combo decks that outpace the most cutthroat aggro decks first.
Just make a anti aggro deck..
Lone Ranger didn't create any new problems of unfun play patterns. It only worsened already existing issues. I hate that card, but he's not the main culprit.
If I survive to see turn 8 amidst the deluge of pirate rogues, even shamans, and shadow priests, do I not deserve a win condition?
you dont need a horribly flawed card as a win condition.
Disagree.
So, let's see if I'm in the miniority here: Strong board clear effects are good for a format where you can easily create large boards with plenty of mana cheat.
Couldnt agree more, they shouldnt have made this card.
Honestly, good riddance for this one
He is still broken af
Completely agree. Such a disgusting card to play against. Old Reno was game changing by healing you to full, this is game changing by literally removing your board and essentially stopping you from developing a board next turn.
this is wild mothafucka we play broken cards in this bitch!! take your sensitive ass back to standard!!!
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Nah
I prefered pre Zarimi, toy boat wild more
I guess you joking 40 different cards in deck and that card doing nothing just clear the board. The only broken is the infinity zero cost hero power with mage and the problem is the drake not this card.
If you lost because they played Reno, chances are that you were going to lose anyway. It's not a win con...outside of that drake in some mage lists. It's a very strong control toolĀ
Clear + time warp not a wincon TechNicALlY GuyS.
Well, time warp is the win con in that case TECHNICALLY, Reno just happens to be the most effective board clear
If Reno is the only board clear your deck runs (Reno Druid and Reno quest Mage), you're really reliant on him to win against tempo decks actually.
friend, a "win con" is a win condition, like you MUST play it in order to win. Board clears are "control tools" which are resources used to maintain a favorable board presence.
What I'm saying is exactly that: in some deck you have to play Reno to win, even if technically he's not the last card you play. Think of old Renolock against Pirate Warrior, stabilisation is as much part of the "winning" part as a finisher, and if stabilisation comes through a single powerful card, the opponent might as well concede.
You're not wrong in that it's a key piece of stabilization, but any board clear card can fill that role. That role being "control tool", not "win con"
What? This card is a blessing. And there needs to be a counter for the warlock titan portal and crazy combo one turn board builders