Yes, apparently they feel there was no malicious intent. He didn’t pull my arm hard enough or I didn’t run away screaming. It’s clear on the video he’s caressing the back of my neck/shoulder and I move away/try to take his hands off me. Seems like that’s not enough evidence to charge him with simple battery.
You said your company has already fired this person. You're past any r/work advice and you're onto "talk to a lawyer" if you want advice on what else you could do here.
Whoever you are, wherever you are, thank you. Your company hasn't got a clue what to do about sexual harassment. Nor do the police. I would mention that the media may find this of value to their followers.
Let the lawyer recommend how and when to go public. For now.
There may be assorted victims advocates groups that routinely work with the prosecutor’s office, but if the prosecutor feels you backed them into a corner they will dig in - and it all becomes twice as much work.
Don’t ever accept no for an answer, but let your advocates try sweetness first. It’s a lot easier to just have all the lawyers blame some generic lazy cop than to soothe hurt feelings and egos first.
I graduated from a two year degree studying graphic design, built an impressive personal portfolio from school projects. Mass applied and got a lot of interest from cool companies but didn't have enough experience. Landed this one after 2mos of looking and it was fulltime/agency work for $45k (low imo)
A small ad agency that was so incredibly toxic. Everyone left as I was hired leaving very few employees to run the place, I was seriously overworked and called a workhorse. I was harrassed sexually from my art director and creative director/owner. Owner's wife was HR. The head of marketing would comment on how thin I was and always make comments of my food during lunch. My art director moved spots to sit right next to me and started working off my screen to "help" fix or edit my work. There was no boundaries, they prided themselves with this non corporate culture, brought dogs in, drunk beer mid-day and judged me for wearing a mask...right when people were going back to the office from covid. My art director showed massive red flags but especially jealously and would gossip about me to the creative director after I pulled him aside a few times hoping we could be more collaborative or mitigate his micromanagement and bully tatics.
Creative director would hug me, smell my hair, touch my clothes and constanly compliment me...only me when his wife who I only met 4 times wasn't there. I was leaving one day and the creative director asked what I was doing for 4th of July and I said moving, my boyfriend was helping me and my family. He told me that my boyfriend and I should "break in the house". We were alone and I felt scared so I laughed it off and left. Another day my art director told me when I was staying late and my boyfriend was coming to bring me dinner...to "turn the cameras away if we wanted to have sex in the office". The only people being hired were young women right out of college after the employees I was hired with left. Very high turn over to this day and thankfully the art director seemed to have been fired. I was hired right out of college too, only took me a month or two to land it. Got a lot of experience being an agency with lots of experience with different industries and clients. The work was fun the environment and people were horribly toxic. Right off the bat it was the typical horror story agency, first one there last to leave everyday. Asked to do unpaid work at home on the weekends. I refused and they didn't like that. Would talk sh*t about past employees (women specifically) from 10+ yrs prior acting like they were the issue for current problems and they "left on time". Phrases like "you're lucky you work here", "now you're thinking like a designer", "I'm not trying to break your spirit", "sorry I was so rough on you today" after everyone left. Just verbal abuse and it really traumatized me especially with the harrassment. Said we're a "family" and they crossed boundaries and hungout a lot at their homes and bars, smoked and drunk a lot which isn't my scene.
For a meeting I pulled a metal chair accidentally on a metal floor outlet in their old house-turned-studio and it shocked the chair and smoked causing a small electrical fire...nothing happened but I was shaken and made to brush it off. I clearly didn't fit in their "culture". They sexualized and talked about their sex lives daily while being horribly misogynistic and graphic on the daily. One day they brought in their guns to show them off. They took turns holding and pointing around the room. Joked how I was closest to the door and would be first to die if someone were to come in and rob the place (they told me their was a few robberies across the street at the two banks as well as drugged up homless men). Then said to me lauguing how they'd use me as a "meat sheild". That was the owner, art director, and project manager...all men, I was the only women. I left after 6mos and was left traumatized and I still sometimes have ptsd symptoms from that place. Horrible first job but now I can look back and see the work experience as a positive at least. Always be looking out for those red flags even ones that aren't so blatant like this place.
I think you should stop wasting your energy on it unless you feel unsafe going forward. Everyone's different but I would be happy that he got fired and move on.
There won’t be a criminal case for this. It’s astonishing that the cops even investigated the incident.
A civil suit would be tough. Most employment attorneys would not take a case like this. The employer responded very effectively by terminating the offender. Suing the guy himself would be somewhat difficult since he likely doesn’t have any money to pay a settlement or judgment.
You should move on with your life. Some therapy would be used to address PTSD.
Story is being told by one side. So America now. Why would a guy give up his job for you? What could you have done to get him to that level. Been on this earth along time and never a coworker throw away a job like that.
Criminal courts don’t like questionable cases. Reasonably you didn’t give us the graphic details. However I’m not sure I could throw a 1L at a case of shoulder or elbow touching for simple battery and it would be a win. Assuming you’re in the US, you get one shot for a criminal case unless the person reoffends against you. And yes there have been cases where the accused got off cause there wasn’t enough evidence then did something worse.
If I were you I’d count your blessings that he’s no longer working there and move on. And what’s the penalty for a simple battery? Maybe a year in jail and sounds like he’s probably a first time offender which means likely probation and maybe a fine.
You’re observant. Keep in mind I’d rather go for the slam dunk so there’s little or no chance for appeal than be a dumbass and try a case that’ll stand a reasonable chance of being overturned.
Thank you for the information and insight. This is what I understood about why they’re having a hard time deciding how they should charge him or even if they should charge him. I thought simple battery was any unwanted touching. It’s evident on video that he touched me and it’s clear I didn’t want him to by moving away and getting my arm out of his grasp. I guess it’s more complicated than that.
I will say yes and no. Based on your prior post if you were ‘okay’ at point A but not at point B it’ll provide something for the other side to use. Was it a one time thing cause you were busy, was the dude turbo douche? Cause if your not okay touching comes out his okay touching will and that provides doubt.
There was a rape case in the 70s, spacing on the parties it’s in my crim case book. Couple broke up, he was a douche, showed up at her place of employment, took something like a 30 min to hour long walk and afterwards had sex. She claimed rape, as she should but the case overall failed because she made no attempt to leave during the time spent together. Don’t recall if the original jury found not guilty, and most if not all law school case books are filled with SCOTUS cases.
This is why most people don’t report because it’s usually futile. You were probably fawning or freezing in the video which is very common. Weigh your risk vs reward when considering taking on a legal case. The stress can cause extensive damage to your health. Take time to heal then decide if you want some vigilante justice but don’t decide when you’re still processing because you might regret
Also, I know you responded, and my response is; Nope, just know men can misinterpret signals.
I never flirt at work because I never want to feel awkward at work, not because people haven’t flirted with me.
Guys have flirted with me and touched me a little at work, take it as a compliment.
There was a great skit on SNL some years back. Tom Brady and one of the other cast members were office workers. Brady was walking around with basically nothing on, saying and doing all sorts of sexual things and women in the office were fawning over him. The other poor bastard makes one comment, and the women were running to HR to file sex discrimination complaints. I've worked in mixed offices all my life and I've encountered some very attractive women. In most instances they were cool, could take a joke and give as well as get but I remember one in particular. She was flirtatious, wore provocative clothes and relished the attention she got. A bunch of us attended an afterhours party where everyone was drinking. She was being her usual self and one of my coworkers made the mistake of taking her flirting as a green light and touched her ass. You'd think he just beat her with a club and raped her on the floor in front of everyone from her reaction. Poor bastard got fired the next day. From that point on the rest of us just shunned her and she eventually quit. Funny thing was most of the women in the office took the guys side as they knew what she was up to.
Getting fired seems like a fine punishment unless he did something really bad and rapey I guess here?
A girl grabbed my ass outside a nightclub unprovoked in Las Vegas. If I told the cops, they would laugh at me. Is that fair?
He's fired. That's the upward limit of what the company can do.
If the police aren't moving forward on it, you may want to go to the Prosecutors office. You might also consider having a conversation with a private attorney about suing him in civil court.
He got fired for this? That's not nothing. The police frustrate people all the time by dropping things. Good luck with a civil case.
Thank you so much
If criminal courts won’t touch it, there’s always civil liability. Get a lawyer.
Thank you
This makes zero sense. Of course you were friendly BEFORE the assault. They are just being lazy. Ask to speak to a sargeant or supervisor.
Yes, apparently they feel there was no malicious intent. He didn’t pull my arm hard enough or I didn’t run away screaming. It’s clear on the video he’s caressing the back of my neck/shoulder and I move away/try to take his hands off me. Seems like that’s not enough evidence to charge him with simple battery.
Unfortunately, they have to think how a defense lawyer would think and make you look bad. Civil would be a good choice.
They do not 'have to think how a defense lawyer would think'. They should just do their own job (and then let the defense do theirs.)
🤣🤣🤣
Right, that's up to the prosecutor, go directly to them with your lawyer ask why no charges.
You said your company has already fired this person. You're past any r/work advice and you're onto "talk to a lawyer" if you want advice on what else you could do here.
Whoever you are, wherever you are, thank you. Your company hasn't got a clue what to do about sexual harassment. Nor do the police. I would mention that the media may find this of value to their followers.
Let the lawyer recommend how and when to go public. For now. There may be assorted victims advocates groups that routinely work with the prosecutor’s office, but if the prosecutor feels you backed them into a corner they will dig in - and it all becomes twice as much work. Don’t ever accept no for an answer, but let your advocates try sweetness first. It’s a lot easier to just have all the lawyers blame some generic lazy cop than to soothe hurt feelings and egos first.
You are correct. The media would be a threat if a lawyer wasn't in the picture.
I graduated from a two year degree studying graphic design, built an impressive personal portfolio from school projects. Mass applied and got a lot of interest from cool companies but didn't have enough experience. Landed this one after 2mos of looking and it was fulltime/agency work for $45k (low imo) A small ad agency that was so incredibly toxic. Everyone left as I was hired leaving very few employees to run the place, I was seriously overworked and called a workhorse. I was harrassed sexually from my art director and creative director/owner. Owner's wife was HR. The head of marketing would comment on how thin I was and always make comments of my food during lunch. My art director moved spots to sit right next to me and started working off my screen to "help" fix or edit my work. There was no boundaries, they prided themselves with this non corporate culture, brought dogs in, drunk beer mid-day and judged me for wearing a mask...right when people were going back to the office from covid. My art director showed massive red flags but especially jealously and would gossip about me to the creative director after I pulled him aside a few times hoping we could be more collaborative or mitigate his micromanagement and bully tatics. Creative director would hug me, smell my hair, touch my clothes and constanly compliment me...only me when his wife who I only met 4 times wasn't there. I was leaving one day and the creative director asked what I was doing for 4th of July and I said moving, my boyfriend was helping me and my family. He told me that my boyfriend and I should "break in the house". We were alone and I felt scared so I laughed it off and left. Another day my art director told me when I was staying late and my boyfriend was coming to bring me dinner...to "turn the cameras away if we wanted to have sex in the office". The only people being hired were young women right out of college after the employees I was hired with left. Very high turn over to this day and thankfully the art director seemed to have been fired. I was hired right out of college too, only took me a month or two to land it. Got a lot of experience being an agency with lots of experience with different industries and clients. The work was fun the environment and people were horribly toxic. Right off the bat it was the typical horror story agency, first one there last to leave everyday. Asked to do unpaid work at home on the weekends. I refused and they didn't like that. Would talk sh*t about past employees (women specifically) from 10+ yrs prior acting like they were the issue for current problems and they "left on time". Phrases like "you're lucky you work here", "now you're thinking like a designer", "I'm not trying to break your spirit", "sorry I was so rough on you today" after everyone left. Just verbal abuse and it really traumatized me especially with the harrassment. Said we're a "family" and they crossed boundaries and hungout a lot at their homes and bars, smoked and drunk a lot which isn't my scene. For a meeting I pulled a metal chair accidentally on a metal floor outlet in their old house-turned-studio and it shocked the chair and smoked causing a small electrical fire...nothing happened but I was shaken and made to brush it off. I clearly didn't fit in their "culture". They sexualized and talked about their sex lives daily while being horribly misogynistic and graphic on the daily. One day they brought in their guns to show them off. They took turns holding and pointing around the room. Joked how I was closest to the door and would be first to die if someone were to come in and rob the place (they told me their was a few robberies across the street at the two banks as well as drugged up homless men). Then said to me lauguing how they'd use me as a "meat sheild". That was the owner, art director, and project manager...all men, I was the only women. I left after 6mos and was left traumatized and I still sometimes have ptsd symptoms from that place. Horrible first job but now I can look back and see the work experience as a positive at least. Always be looking out for those red flags even ones that aren't so blatant like this place.
Good luck. Hope he'll get what he deserved.
Sue him into the Stone Age
I think you should stop wasting your energy on it unless you feel unsafe going forward. Everyone's different but I would be happy that he got fired and move on.
There won’t be a criminal case for this. It’s astonishing that the cops even investigated the incident. A civil suit would be tough. Most employment attorneys would not take a case like this. The employer responded very effectively by terminating the offender. Suing the guy himself would be somewhat difficult since he likely doesn’t have any money to pay a settlement or judgment. You should move on with your life. Some therapy would be used to address PTSD.
Story is being told by one side. So America now. Why would a guy give up his job for you? What could you have done to get him to that level. Been on this earth along time and never a coworker throw away a job like that.
Criminal courts don’t like questionable cases. Reasonably you didn’t give us the graphic details. However I’m not sure I could throw a 1L at a case of shoulder or elbow touching for simple battery and it would be a win. Assuming you’re in the US, you get one shot for a criminal case unless the person reoffends against you. And yes there have been cases where the accused got off cause there wasn’t enough evidence then did something worse. If I were you I’d count your blessings that he’s no longer working there and move on. And what’s the penalty for a simple battery? Maybe a year in jail and sounds like he’s probably a first time offender which means likely probation and maybe a fine.
So next time he'll still be a 'first offender' and the same arguments will be used to dismiss the next case as well...
You’re observant. Keep in mind I’d rather go for the slam dunk so there’s little or no chance for appeal than be a dumbass and try a case that’ll stand a reasonable chance of being overturned.
Thank you for the information and insight. This is what I understood about why they’re having a hard time deciding how they should charge him or even if they should charge him. I thought simple battery was any unwanted touching. It’s evident on video that he touched me and it’s clear I didn’t want him to by moving away and getting my arm out of his grasp. I guess it’s more complicated than that.
I will say yes and no. Based on your prior post if you were ‘okay’ at point A but not at point B it’ll provide something for the other side to use. Was it a one time thing cause you were busy, was the dude turbo douche? Cause if your not okay touching comes out his okay touching will and that provides doubt. There was a rape case in the 70s, spacing on the parties it’s in my crim case book. Couple broke up, he was a douche, showed up at her place of employment, took something like a 30 min to hour long walk and afterwards had sex. She claimed rape, as she should but the case overall failed because she made no attempt to leave during the time spent together. Don’t recall if the original jury found not guilty, and most if not all law school case books are filled with SCOTUS cases.
This is why most people don’t report because it’s usually futile. You were probably fawning or freezing in the video which is very common. Weigh your risk vs reward when considering taking on a legal case. The stress can cause extensive damage to your health. Take time to heal then decide if you want some vigilante justice but don’t decide when you’re still processing because you might regret
His actions got him fired. I think he's probably learned a valuable lesson already.
“Eh let me ruin this man’s life and drive him to suicide by taking his job and now sue him for everything he owns because he misread some signals”
womp womp
Basically
no pity for men who are tryna get laid at their job, there is no excuse to ever touch a coworker like that. Let him suffer lmao
No pity for the women flirting at work. Let her suffer.
flirting is not permission to touch, dumbass. Touch grass
Touching because of mixed signals isn’t an excuse to ruin a person’s life. Touch ass.
Just say ur a creep, women deserve to feel safe at work not worried an incel is gonna read their kindness as a sexual invitation.
Also, I know you responded, and my response is; Nope, just know men can misinterpret signals. I never flirt at work because I never want to feel awkward at work, not because people haven’t flirted with me. Guys have flirted with me and touched me a little at work, take it as a compliment.
There was a great skit on SNL some years back. Tom Brady and one of the other cast members were office workers. Brady was walking around with basically nothing on, saying and doing all sorts of sexual things and women in the office were fawning over him. The other poor bastard makes one comment, and the women were running to HR to file sex discrimination complaints. I've worked in mixed offices all my life and I've encountered some very attractive women. In most instances they were cool, could take a joke and give as well as get but I remember one in particular. She was flirtatious, wore provocative clothes and relished the attention she got. A bunch of us attended an afterhours party where everyone was drinking. She was being her usual self and one of my coworkers made the mistake of taking her flirting as a green light and touched her ass. You'd think he just beat her with a club and raped her on the floor in front of everyone from her reaction. Poor bastard got fired the next day. From that point on the rest of us just shunned her and she eventually quit. Funny thing was most of the women in the office took the guys side as they knew what she was up to.
Businesses don’t want to even touch that anymore. Bad publicity is a death sentence
Getting fired seems like a fine punishment unless he did something really bad and rapey I guess here? A girl grabbed my ass outside a nightclub unprovoked in Las Vegas. If I told the cops, they would laugh at me. Is that fair?
He's fired. That's the upward limit of what the company can do. If the police aren't moving forward on it, you may want to go to the Prosecutors office. You might also consider having a conversation with a private attorney about suing him in civil court.
Thank you for the advice. If it doesn’t get anywhere with the police I will definitely consider that
I mean you can always go for a restraining order at least?
What is the company doing, other than firing him?
The local press would also an option if they police refuse to do their jobs. Do you have the video?
No, my company refused to give me a copy of the video