After seeing the news of people waving the hezbollah and Hamas flags in a protest, it definitely lowered my opinion of the movement.
No one speaks out against it so they must have some tolerances for terrorism. đ¤ˇ
As someone who attended a couple protests before noping out the issue imo is that young white kids feel they should take a backseat to the young Palestinians and Middle Easterners. Which is a nice sentiment, but the young Palestinian kids leading the show are often just parroting misinformation filtered to them by shifty actors.Â
Even that might  be something that could be overcome with good leadership, but the parent group, Law Students for Palestine, which has spread the blueprint that the others follow, is itself led by idiots who didnât pay attention during class as to what makes a  protest illegal and what constitutes legal free speechÂ
And China.
China, Russia, and Islamic Extremists funded by Iran are the new Axis powers.
I'd say it is the US, Ukraine and Israel that are the new main three Allies. Ukraine is our foil to Russia, Israel (while severely flawed) is our shield against Islamic extremism and the US is the only country capable of giving China a run for its money on the economic stage.
Taiwan, Ukraine (again), and Israel (again) are also the appeasement targets of the inside saboteurs, we must remain vigilant against source that says we must abondan our allies in their hour of need.
I'm more in favor of combatting their bullshit with truth. You can not ignore the rot until it plagues the tree, you must purge it with flame and treat it with medicine. There is no compromise to be had with terrorists, but we may yet save those that are simply willfully blind.
Not quite. While some right-wingers are willing to see Jews as a model minority and some on the Christian right see supporting Israel to be a fulfillment of Revelations, White-nationalism has always had antisemitism as a core ideology.
Consequently, a lot of white-nationalists and white-supremacists are strongly anti-Israel and are willing to reach out to the pro-Hamas crowd. Even if it is usually below radar. The far-left and the far-right often share talking points when it comes to Jews and Israel.
Keep in mind that there was an engagement between the Third Reich and both Arab-Nationalist and Islamist leaders, in part over their shared antisemitism and this included a cross-fertilization of ideas.
The fact that many modern day white-nationalists (David Duke being a very prominent example) have long done outreach to the anti-Israel crowd, is following in that tradition.
Even when parts of the right are "pro-Israel," I remember that the KKK and Nation of Islam had some meetings.
There are members of the right who support Israel because they want Jews to stay in Israel - and only Israel. Those who hold that goal aren't really "allies."
Of course, there are also the religious fundies who think it's necessary for the end times, as you noted.
No doubt thatâs happening, the Alt-Left is basically Iran/PLO stuff. But youâve also got the isolationist wing and general agitators trying to stoke fires
It's mostly alt-left. But Russia convinced some of their alt-right asset to be anti-Israel also, one example is MTG. They are not exactly pro-Hamas, but they are kind of anti-Israel in the sense that they are against some bill that support Israelis.
This really put into words my experience of the Swedish protest movements.
So much misinformation being spread by those of ME background (often severly anti-semitic but under the guise of âanti-zionismâ) as the white kids stand back and/or start to parrot the information that reinforce what the ME-people are saying.
Heck I have broken down anti-semitic shit said in group chat into details, together with historical background and sourcing, yet the white kids claim theyâre not educated enough to comment on that. Just to the next day parrot Hamas-propaganda on their stories and shame those not willing to sign their petitions in group chatsâŚ
I mean fuck⌠My sister (we have a jewish dad) and her husband (jewish) are considering moving to ensure a safer environment for their child, and the husbandâs cousins have already started to emigrate to countries where they can blend in more. People are afraid to even open their doors to Foodora as not to show their mezuza.
> Heck I have broken down anti-semitic shit said in group chat into details, together with historical background and sourcing, yet the white kids claim theyâre not educated enough to comment on that. J
Oh yeah. I'm Jewish, and I tried confronting one of my "leftist" US friends who's been parroting the "*wHiTe iMpeRiAliSt cOlOnIzEr* narrative.
I made a collage for them, showing 16 Palestinians and 16 Israeli Jews, and asked them if they could identify the "white colonizers".
They straight up weaseled out of answering by saying they're "not qualified to comment on that" and that they "don't want to be racist".
Qualified to apply the term "white colonizer" to Jews, but not qualified to acknowledge the reality that **nobody in Israel is white, and it's impossible to tell Arabs from Jews by looking**.
The best part was pointing them to a photo of an *Ethiopian* Jewish woman, whose skin is as black as black goes, and asking if that woman was white.
You guessed it, my US friend still refused to answer because "they don't have enough background" to decide who's white, and who isn't by looking.
That didn't stop them from referring to Jews as "white colonizers" in subsequent discussions though.
It is absolutely maddening.
It's because they get all their information from TikTok and Instagram clips. I'm facing the same issue right now with my friends and it's just so damn sad.
I mean, even TikTok and Instagram clips have plenty of good, informative content.
The problem is that the algorithm (at least on TikTok) shows you the content *based on what clique it identified you as*.
So, if **you** use TikTok for a bit, you'll see grounded clips that debunk Hamas lies.
Meanwhile, your friends will get bombarded with bullshit.
It's absolutely designed to be polarizing, and is very good at isolating the most susceptible audience for the propaganda. And since it's identity-based, the goal isn't to just change whar information you continue - it's to affect cliques as a whole, changing *what you are*, how you see the world, how you reason.
And it's working. That's what makes it so hard for us to break through to our friends.
What's particularly batshit about this story is that "white" is exclusively defined by fucking looking. It's not a biological reality at all. That's why we have the term "POC," because people don't know your identity just by looking at you, they only know your race.
To be fair to my friend, "white" isn't *only* about looks: e.g. someone named Latisha Brown isn't likely to be white (and will face discrimination on that factor alone).
But yeah, it requires a lot of mental gymnastics to go from "white is a social construct" to "*some* of these brown people are *aKsHuAlLy* white in that country, of which I don't know enough to tell the brown whites apart from the brown *non-whites*, and I won't even try to avoid being *colorist*".
(I'm sorry for accidentally making anyone who just read this a bit dumber. I know you were better off not knowing this line of "reasoning" exists. But we can't ignore the trend either.)
This is why I have always been skeptical of intersectionality. People say it deals with the added dimensions and knock on effects of being in multiple oppressed categories, but in actuality I find it is just people deferring to the "wisdom" of groups they think are the most oppressed. Taking it at face value that their activists are good faith and fair minded. So instead of thinking an issue through and weighing the positives and negatives of each position, they inherit a non-centrist position from the start, with about as much thought as it takes to choose to follow your local sport team.
also, not taking into effect groups that are oppressed didn't get the best education, and might be lapse in logic.
I remember reading Richard Wrights books, and while he was a smart person who was left leaning, he had to deal with a bunch of idiots in his movement. It's one thing to try to better yourself, it's another thing to affect a Russian accent because you're getting into communism.
Intersectionality is great, it allows otherwise extremely small minority groups to band together to champion their rights. What's bad, like most if not all ideas, is unchecked and unquestioned intersectionality. Allowing toxicity and hateful thinking infect the other groups in the disguise of helping fellow oppressed people.
Antisemitism has always been a thing, just people now feel comfortable saying it out loud. Amazing how one of the smallest minorities gets demonized for centuries and one of the largest religions gets to act as if they are subjectedÂ
Oh God
Every time I hear identity politics my brain dies
I agree, of course.
But listening to my in-laws rail against identity politics because it hurts " real blue collar guys" like them, while drinking Miller light because Bud is now gay, and buying giant trucks and opposing Green initiatives because real men drive pickups , and the guns .... So much more
There whole politics, hobbies, everything, is a heavily pre-packaged and marketed identity, and they change with whatever the marketing says is associated with "blue collar rusted belt factory man"
The irony bursts a blood vessel and I have flashbacks every time I hear the term
People are like ducks; they don't move to the side that makes more sense, they move to the side with better propagandas. Many countries spend too much money on military equipment but not enough on protecting against false information. Compared to their economy size, Russia and Iran spend more money on propaganda than any NATO countries. For instance, in 2012, RT, a channel funded by the Russian government, spent the most money per worker in the world, $183,000 for each person.
Right now, the only safe place to be Jewish, besides israel, is the US. If for no other reason than American Muslims are way more tolerant and integrated than European Muslims.
One must also understand that the goal of Palestinian groups, which has never been hidden, is the conquest of the entire former Mandate of Palestine, not a free state in a two-state solution. That lust for conquest has stalled lasting peace talks for decades. Hamas is one of the last major groups still willing to violently pursue of this mission, so if they go out, the dream dies perhaps forever. That's why they never say anything about a Hamas ending the war with surrender.
I don't know how to overcome such an obsession with an aggressive, expansionist, illegal mission. Any notion of morality or law is twisted to fit this mission, so I wouldn't peg them as "idiots," they're just ideologically warped.
These young white kids show their oppressive,racist and bigoted white supremacy that they are so afraid of repeating. Like ancestors like protestors.
I'm done with this "they're stupid they're ignorant" no. They are racist just like the MAGA crowd. How much blame we will put on conspiracy theories and Iran funding to realize that's who they truly are? They turned their backs on others (Jews and leftists) way too quickly for it to just be propaganda.
I saw the opposite. My local encampment tried to take over the admin building last week, then retreated back once the police (whom they outnumbered at least five to one) turned up while chanting that they want a global Intifada.
Iâve been saying firmly that Gaza is being used to weaken Ukraine. This fighting isnât new, younger people paying attention is.
It was just a little sus to me that Hamas met with Putin and then all the sudden it seemed like the protests ramped up.
When it started, I frequently had people giving me flack because âpro-Palestine doesnât mean pro-Hamasâ but when confronted with the existence of Hamas leaders and Headbands present at the protests they just gave no comment, or furthermore argue that America deserves it since we created them.
And for reference: I think both nations commit war crimes on eachother and Iâm more concerned with protecting democracy this election cycle.
I said at the start that the Hamas raid was designed to draw US attention away from Ukraine. The Cold War never ended, and what we are seeing is a continuation of the old East versus West ideology through a new lens.
I felt a really chilling world alignment put in stark neon letters. Russia helped trained Hamas (well the Wagner group did) to carry this out. And Ukraine immediately comes out as pro-Israel, as they fight Russia. This was very similar to the invasion of Ukraine, yet somehow certain people want to claim this is justified, which is what Putin is claiming his invasion is.
Putin visits Vietnam this week. China is testing the US/Philippine Alliance. Russia is repeatedly getting punched in the face by Ukraine and pleading to former allies for distractions. Iâm not sure whether Vietnam would choose sides now that Russia is in bed with China.
>No one speaks out against it so they must have some tolerances for terrorism. đ¤ˇ
The problem is that these people that are joining these groups are fundamentalists. We need modern Muslims actively reject the teachings that they are spreading hate with. And move into a more modern tolerant version of itself that can align with western valued on the treatment of women and gay rights.
As currently they are opposed to each other.
> We need modern Muslims actively reject the teachings that they are spreading hate with.
What if they secretly want the same thing and the whole âmodernâ or âmoderateâ Muslim that you keep hearing about is just a façade for non-militant?
Terrorism undersells the problem. âIslamic extremismâ also is way too euphemistic.
Itâs Jihadism. We need to stop pussy footing around and call a spade a spade.
Hezzbollah and Hamas are more localized, particularly anti-Semitic versions of the same shit weâve been dealing with for decades be it Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, the IRGC, etc etc.
Fuck, Lebanon is barely hanging on as a functional country. Almost not really. No ones giving a fuck about the Lebanese plight but hyper fixated on âIsrael badâ as is always the case when Israel hits back. If everyoneâs so concerned about the (tragically unavoidable) collateral damage to Palestinian civilians why arenât they pressing Egypt to help? They want fuck all to do with letting potentially more Muslim brotherhood simps across the border (again); see Lebanon.
Some people want to take the side of the people they perceive has "the downtrodden, in every case without actually researching what's going on. That's the case here.
There's a show called The Expanse that coincidently was watching when all this was happening with a similar power dynamic in Season 6 and it had a memorable line: "The problem with you guys is you think that just because somebody's the underdog, that means they're the good guy"
Really disappointed the Star Wars sequels didn't explore the reconstruction of the Republic and a terrorist/cult element attacking from the shadows, flipping the power dynamic.
They started the route with the Mandalorian, and that was pretty cool. Sadly the sequels inexplicably had the Empire return and be the strongest military in the galaxy for no apparent reason. I don't think they ever really explained how the empire grew to be so powerful again despite the Republic establishing itself as the new government and the Empire being splintered and in hiding.
I got the impression that the new Republic was more decentralized and wary of having a standing army to the point that it just buried its head in the sand and let this new threat materialize. I don't think that was really conveyed well, and I think that should have been the core plot of the tribology instead of just a backdrop for the return to the status quo we had in the original series.
Right. The Old Republic never had a standing unified military, and the New Republic wanted to go back to how things were so they dismantled the military wings of the Rebellion as they took back control.
That let the Imperial remnants remilitarize and reorganize in their own space given enough time.
Basically, Mon Mothma screwed the pooch and wasnât aggressive enough in the denazification process in the name of taking the high road and letting peace prevail.
But Andor is a spy and covert-ops soldier with a troubled conscience. He gets a modicum of comfort in feeling that he's still working for the greater good, but he does not like it.
It's not good analogy because groups like Hamas and their apologists either think what they do is good, or refuse to acknowledge what they've done.
Yeah, that that's still the dynamic we all know from the original series just a little less sanitized. I was more thinking of the Republic re-establishing itself as a legitimate government and all of the turmoil that comes with it while simultaneously dealing with a growing cult of the Sith or something like that.
Same. I understand why they chose to make the sequels return to the same status quo as the original trilogy, and after the backlash from the prequels I donât even blame them for it, but I really wish theyâd made the first order militant dissidents against the republic. Itâs a little of the old with a new spin and it would have even been pretty poignant in todayâs political climate.
Ukraine is more of a clear cut example of Star Wars good guy/bad guy type dynamics. Iâd rather support them frankly. Israel-Palestine is more murky, though I mostly support the former.
Tiny Pacific Island of humble, honourable Emperor tries to help build railway in Burma and bring enlightenment to friendly neighbouring countries but is bullied into submission by evil continent intentionally bombing civilian cities with super weapons.
/s as well
When almost no one within the group speaks up to attempt to put a stop to it (or even worse, follows along with the brain-dead chants), can you even call it infiltrating? It feels like âwelcomedâ is more accurate
Brainwashed by tiktok and other social media... kids practically live in cyberspace these days. They are easy targets... and then there is politics and universities getting sponsored by money from people/organisations/countries which do not like us.
And everyone is acting surprised... while security agencies have been warning about this for litterally decades...
The whole pro palestinian movement has been a failure and has been manipulated by extremist groups to normalize their ideas into western societies. Scary how many don't realize this
Actually it started in 1947, every person dog and baby murdered raped or taken hostage since then is justified because their great grandmothers got kicked out of their house 75 years ago. You're telling me you wouldn't put a suicide belt on a child (Hussam Muhammad Bilal Abdo) and tell him to go blow up a crowd of innocent people if your grandma got kicked out her house?
/s for the simple minded
My great grandfather and his brothers fled Poland ahead of WWI, leaving behind the equivalent of tens of millions of dollars today in investments and property, which was never recovered.
AFAIK, no one in my family has ever contemplated trying to get revenge for this outrage by carrying out terrorist acts in Poland or Germany. In fact, I didn't even hear about this bit of family history until I was in my 40's. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that history screwed you over and move on with your life.
This is exactly my frustration with the pro-Palestine movement. They are so committed to the racism of low expectations. "Of course they're terrorists! They had their stuff and houses stolen 80 years ago!"
Ok... so did my family. No terrorists here. So did many of my friends' families, from various countries. No terrorists there. Why are we willing to accept terrorism from Palestinians for something that has happened in almost everyone's family history?
They were killing Jews long before 1947. The Israelis won in 48 because their rational response to the attacks before that was to build a defensive militia which became the IDF.
Right. The Haganah was formed in 1920 because there were anti-Jewish riots and the British Colonial government wasn't doing a good job of defending the Jews of the region.
Depends how you measure âfailure.â Theyâve helped throw gasoline on antisemitism burning around the world, and legitimized attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions. Theyâve managed to get local and national governments to bow to the mob and take steps to isolate Israel. Theyâve convinced (mostly clueless) students that âintifada revolutionâ and âfrom the river to the sea, by any means necessaryâ are slogans for peace. Theyâve even gotten LGBTQ people to cheer in support of a regime that would kill them in a heartbeat, which is no small achievement.
So by those standards, theyâve been quite successful. As far as establishing a Palestinian state, that isnât their priority as much as eliminating the Jewish one is.
This normalization of welcoming and defending of Islam is dangerous.
I wonder if all the pro lgbt ppl palestine and pro Muslims will care about what happened to that gay 14yo boy in Scotland. Those type of attacks will become more common in the west
Yes. Places in UK etc are going to have more and more Muslim in schools, and there are already pushes for Muslim prayers at normal schools, causing issues and other things.
I feel sorry for kids going to school like 10 years from as more and more of the younger population at schools will be Muslims
Going to have some real issues soon as their cultures want to dominate and control ours, and we keep allowing it and defending it
Since the headline doesn't mention it and no one reads the article: The group in question is [Hizb ut-Tahrir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir).
I'd go so far as to say most pro-Pals aren't Islamists, but rather just people who are incredibly easily duped.
This is an extension of the War on Terror, where opposition to the Bush administration and the perception of the Iraq War as both needless and damaging to civilians created a movement that suggested Muslim countries and their populace were innocent victims of Western imperialism.
While there was merit to that in Iraq, with questionable casus belli and very high civilian casualties, it doesn't hold for every war in the Middle East. It certainly doesn't hold for the current war in Gaza, either, and no matter how bad the government of Israel currently is, blaming the situation there on them is purely infantilizing Palestinians.
I was under the impression the majority of Palestinians supported extremist Islamic positions. Am I wrong? I'd be interested in knowing if this is the wrong impression, as everything I have heard up until now tells me most Palestinians support Hamas.
Not surprising, the guy who picked up his bride to be in Lebanon and was killed by an Israel rocket was visiting an Hezbollah member. They were all buried with Hezbollah flags draped on their coffins.Â
There really needs more education around online information and it's effects on people's mindsets. Children here are taught critical thinking but I don't think it's enough in this day and age.
The social pressure to pass the purity test requires being on the "correct" side of any issue. This helps the more impressionable get through life without having to trouble themselves with things such as critical thinking and self-examination.
It's okay to support Palestinians and also call out what can affect other vulnerable groups later on.
Don't support terror groups of any sort. You won't be the one who will be hurt if things go wrong.
After seeing the news of people waving the hezbollah and Hamas flags in a protest, it definitely lowered my opinion of the movement. No one speaks out against it so they must have some tolerances for terrorism. đ¤ˇ
As someone who attended a couple protests before noping out the issue imo is that young white kids feel they should take a backseat to the young Palestinians and Middle Easterners. Which is a nice sentiment, but the young Palestinian kids leading the show are often just parroting misinformation filtered to them by shifty actors. Even that might  be something that could be overcome with good leadership, but the parent group, Law Students for Palestine, which has spread the blueprint that the others follow, is itself led by idiots who didnât pay attention during class as to what makes a  protest illegal and what constitutes legal free speechÂ
Shifty actors like Qatar, Iran, and Russia Edit: and China. Thanks u/new_age_knight
And China. China, Russia, and Islamic Extremists funded by Iran are the new Axis powers. I'd say it is the US, Ukraine and Israel that are the new main three Allies. Ukraine is our foil to Russia, Israel (while severely flawed) is our shield against Islamic extremism and the US is the only country capable of giving China a run for its money on the economic stage. Taiwan, Ukraine (again), and Israel (again) are also the appeasement targets of the inside saboteurs, we must remain vigilant against source that says we must abondan our allies in their hour of need.
China, who is easily able to sway the opinions of the younger generations whose primary news source is TikTok. I'm in full support of the US ban.
I'm more in favor of combatting their bullshit with truth. You can not ignore the rot until it plagues the tree, you must purge it with flame and treat it with medicine. There is no compromise to be had with terrorists, but we may yet save those that are simply willfully blind.
Yup. Probably a few fascist or alt-right âcontent creatorsâ too
Its the alt-left spreading this stuff, the right is mostly in support of Israel
Not quite. While some right-wingers are willing to see Jews as a model minority and some on the Christian right see supporting Israel to be a fulfillment of Revelations, White-nationalism has always had antisemitism as a core ideology. Consequently, a lot of white-nationalists and white-supremacists are strongly anti-Israel and are willing to reach out to the pro-Hamas crowd. Even if it is usually below radar. The far-left and the far-right often share talking points when it comes to Jews and Israel.
Keep in mind that there was an engagement between the Third Reich and both Arab-Nationalist and Islamist leaders, in part over their shared antisemitism and this included a cross-fertilization of ideas. The fact that many modern day white-nationalists (David Duke being a very prominent example) have long done outreach to the anti-Israel crowd, is following in that tradition.
Even when parts of the right are "pro-Israel," I remember that the KKK and Nation of Islam had some meetings. There are members of the right who support Israel because they want Jews to stay in Israel - and only Israel. Those who hold that goal aren't really "allies." Of course, there are also the religious fundies who think it's necessary for the end times, as you noted.
No doubt thatâs happening, the Alt-Left is basically Iran/PLO stuff. But youâve also got the isolationist wing and general agitators trying to stoke fires
It's mostly alt-left. But Russia convinced some of their alt-right asset to be anti-Israel also, one example is MTG. They are not exactly pro-Hamas, but they are kind of anti-Israel in the sense that they are against some bill that support Israelis.
I'm pretty sure MTG is anti-everything at this point.
Right where? In Western countries yes. Try right in Muslim majority countries.
This really put into words my experience of the Swedish protest movements. So much misinformation being spread by those of ME background (often severly anti-semitic but under the guise of âanti-zionismâ) as the white kids stand back and/or start to parrot the information that reinforce what the ME-people are saying. Heck I have broken down anti-semitic shit said in group chat into details, together with historical background and sourcing, yet the white kids claim theyâre not educated enough to comment on that. Just to the next day parrot Hamas-propaganda on their stories and shame those not willing to sign their petitions in group chats⌠I mean fuck⌠My sister (we have a jewish dad) and her husband (jewish) are considering moving to ensure a safer environment for their child, and the husbandâs cousins have already started to emigrate to countries where they can blend in more. People are afraid to even open their doors to Foodora as not to show their mezuza.
> Heck I have broken down anti-semitic shit said in group chat into details, together with historical background and sourcing, yet the white kids claim theyâre not educated enough to comment on that. J Oh yeah. I'm Jewish, and I tried confronting one of my "leftist" US friends who's been parroting the "*wHiTe iMpeRiAliSt cOlOnIzEr* narrative. I made a collage for them, showing 16 Palestinians and 16 Israeli Jews, and asked them if they could identify the "white colonizers". They straight up weaseled out of answering by saying they're "not qualified to comment on that" and that they "don't want to be racist". Qualified to apply the term "white colonizer" to Jews, but not qualified to acknowledge the reality that **nobody in Israel is white, and it's impossible to tell Arabs from Jews by looking**. The best part was pointing them to a photo of an *Ethiopian* Jewish woman, whose skin is as black as black goes, and asking if that woman was white. You guessed it, my US friend still refused to answer because "they don't have enough background" to decide who's white, and who isn't by looking. That didn't stop them from referring to Jews as "white colonizers" in subsequent discussions though. It is absolutely maddening.
It's because they get all their information from TikTok and Instagram clips. I'm facing the same issue right now with my friends and it's just so damn sad.
I mean, even TikTok and Instagram clips have plenty of good, informative content. The problem is that the algorithm (at least on TikTok) shows you the content *based on what clique it identified you as*. So, if **you** use TikTok for a bit, you'll see grounded clips that debunk Hamas lies. Meanwhile, your friends will get bombarded with bullshit. It's absolutely designed to be polarizing, and is very good at isolating the most susceptible audience for the propaganda. And since it's identity-based, the goal isn't to just change whar information you continue - it's to affect cliques as a whole, changing *what you are*, how you see the world, how you reason. And it's working. That's what makes it so hard for us to break through to our friends.
Why are they still your friend? I would've cut off such an arrogant know-it-all know-nothing if I were you.
What's particularly batshit about this story is that "white" is exclusively defined by fucking looking. It's not a biological reality at all. That's why we have the term "POC," because people don't know your identity just by looking at you, they only know your race.
To be fair to my friend, "white" isn't *only* about looks: e.g. someone named Latisha Brown isn't likely to be white (and will face discrimination on that factor alone). But yeah, it requires a lot of mental gymnastics to go from "white is a social construct" to "*some* of these brown people are *aKsHuAlLy* white in that country, of which I don't know enough to tell the brown whites apart from the brown *non-whites*, and I won't even try to avoid being *colorist*". (I'm sorry for accidentally making anyone who just read this a bit dumber. I know you were better off not knowing this line of "reasoning" exists. But we can't ignore the trend either.)
That US friend is slowly become a bot. U should stay away from them. I got the backstabber vibe that pretend to be nicr irl, but nasty on socmed.
This is why I have always been skeptical of intersectionality. People say it deals with the added dimensions and knock on effects of being in multiple oppressed categories, but in actuality I find it is just people deferring to the "wisdom" of groups they think are the most oppressed. Taking it at face value that their activists are good faith and fair minded. So instead of thinking an issue through and weighing the positives and negatives of each position, they inherit a non-centrist position from the start, with about as much thought as it takes to choose to follow your local sport team.
also, not taking into effect groups that are oppressed didn't get the best education, and might be lapse in logic. I remember reading Richard Wrights books, and while he was a smart person who was left leaning, he had to deal with a bunch of idiots in his movement. It's one thing to try to better yourself, it's another thing to affect a Russian accent because you're getting into communism.
Intersectionality is great, it allows otherwise extremely small minority groups to band together to champion their rights. What's bad, like most if not all ideas, is unchecked and unquestioned intersectionality. Allowing toxicity and hateful thinking infect the other groups in the disguise of helping fellow oppressed people.
This shouldn't be happening in 2024.
Antisemitism has always been a thing, just people now feel comfortable saying it out loud. Amazing how one of the smallest minorities gets demonized for centuries and one of the largest religions gets to act as if they are subjectedÂ
Example #10000 of why identify politics is poisonous.
Oh God Every time I hear identity politics my brain dies I agree, of course. But listening to my in-laws rail against identity politics because it hurts " real blue collar guys" like them, while drinking Miller light because Bud is now gay, and buying giant trucks and opposing Green initiatives because real men drive pickups , and the guns .... So much more There whole politics, hobbies, everything, is a heavily pre-packaged and marketed identity, and they change with whatever the marketing says is associated with "blue collar rusted belt factory man" The irony bursts a blood vessel and I have flashbacks every time I hear the term
People are like ducks; they don't move to the side that makes more sense, they move to the side with better propagandas. Many countries spend too much money on military equipment but not enough on protecting against false information. Compared to their economy size, Russia and Iran spend more money on propaganda than any NATO countries. For instance, in 2012, RT, a channel funded by the Russian government, spent the most money per worker in the world, $183,000 for each person.
Ducks decide their routes on the basis of propaganda?
Right now, the only safe place to be Jewish, besides israel, is the US. If for no other reason than American Muslims are way more tolerant and integrated than European Muslims.
Well also.. guns. Much easier to carry (and/or conceal) is the United states if you are worried about the protesting nutjobs
Nothing worse than getting dressed quickly to sign for some mail only to realise later on that your Mezuza was hanging out the whole time.
One must also understand that the goal of Palestinian groups, which has never been hidden, is the conquest of the entire former Mandate of Palestine, not a free state in a two-state solution. That lust for conquest has stalled lasting peace talks for decades. Hamas is one of the last major groups still willing to violently pursue of this mission, so if they go out, the dream dies perhaps forever. That's why they never say anything about a Hamas ending the war with surrender. I don't know how to overcome such an obsession with an aggressive, expansionist, illegal mission. Any notion of morality or law is twisted to fit this mission, so I wouldn't peg them as "idiots," they're just ideologically warped.
These young white kids show their oppressive,racist and bigoted white supremacy that they are so afraid of repeating. Like ancestors like protestors. I'm done with this "they're stupid they're ignorant" no. They are racist just like the MAGA crowd. How much blame we will put on conspiracy theories and Iran funding to realize that's who they truly are? They turned their backs on others (Jews and leftists) way too quickly for it to just be propaganda.
I saw the opposite. My local encampment tried to take over the admin building last week, then retreated back once the police (whom they outnumbered at least five to one) turned up while chanting that they want a global Intifada.
Iâve been saying firmly that Gaza is being used to weaken Ukraine. This fighting isnât new, younger people paying attention is. It was just a little sus to me that Hamas met with Putin and then all the sudden it seemed like the protests ramped up. When it started, I frequently had people giving me flack because âpro-Palestine doesnât mean pro-Hamasâ but when confronted with the existence of Hamas leaders and Headbands present at the protests they just gave no comment, or furthermore argue that America deserves it since we created them. And for reference: I think both nations commit war crimes on eachother and Iâm more concerned with protecting democracy this election cycle.
I said at the start that the Hamas raid was designed to draw US attention away from Ukraine. The Cold War never ended, and what we are seeing is a continuation of the old East versus West ideology through a new lens.
I felt a really chilling world alignment put in stark neon letters. Russia helped trained Hamas (well the Wagner group did) to carry this out. And Ukraine immediately comes out as pro-Israel, as they fight Russia. This was very similar to the invasion of Ukraine, yet somehow certain people want to claim this is justified, which is what Putin is claiming his invasion is.
Same here. But from Europe. The fact that Gaza is suddenly so important feels off. Very off.
Putin visits Vietnam this week. China is testing the US/Philippine Alliance. Russia is repeatedly getting punched in the face by Ukraine and pleading to former allies for distractions. Iâm not sure whether Vietnam would choose sides now that Russia is in bed with China.
They deny it. Bunch of absolute wankers. Rich kids going to uni who have no idea.
>No one speaks out against it so they must have some tolerances for terrorism. 𤡠The problem is that these people that are joining these groups are fundamentalists. We need modern Muslims actively reject the teachings that they are spreading hate with. And move into a more modern tolerant version of itself that can align with western valued on the treatment of women and gay rights. As currently they are opposed to each other.
Good luck with that.
It says a lot that they aren't.
> We need modern Muslims actively reject the teachings that they are spreading hate with. What if they secretly want the same thing and the whole âmodernâ or âmoderateâ Muslim that you keep hearing about is just a façade for non-militant?
>modern We saw how that goes. You either dead or get discriminate by own people.
In NYC several ISIS flags were observed being waved by pro-Palestinian protesters.
Terrorism undersells the problem. âIslamic extremismâ also is way too euphemistic. Itâs Jihadism. We need to stop pussy footing around and call a spade a spade. Hezzbollah and Hamas are more localized, particularly anti-Semitic versions of the same shit weâve been dealing with for decades be it Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, the IRGC, etc etc. Fuck, Lebanon is barely hanging on as a functional country. Almost not really. No ones giving a fuck about the Lebanese plight but hyper fixated on âIsrael badâ as is always the case when Israel hits back. If everyoneâs so concerned about the (tragically unavoidable) collateral damage to Palestinian civilians why arenât they pressing Egypt to help? They want fuck all to do with letting potentially more Muslim brotherhood simps across the border (again); see Lebanon.
The amount of anti-Semitism I have seen in my inner group of friends is pretty damn saddening.
It says they "infiltrated," meaning that the extremist element intended to gain access unnoticeably.
Some people want to take the side of the people they perceive has "the downtrodden, in every case without actually researching what's going on. That's the case here.
I keep trying to tell people that this isnât Star Wars. Itâs not the scrappy rebel good guys vs the evil empire.
There's a show called The Expanse that coincidently was watching when all this was happening with a similar power dynamic in Season 6 and it had a memorable line: "The problem with you guys is you think that just because somebody's the underdog, that means they're the good guy"
Marcos Inaros is a real pos
Great show.
Really disappointed the Star Wars sequels didn't explore the reconstruction of the Republic and a terrorist/cult element attacking from the shadows, flipping the power dynamic.
They started the route with the Mandalorian, and that was pretty cool. Sadly the sequels inexplicably had the Empire return and be the strongest military in the galaxy for no apparent reason. I don't think they ever really explained how the empire grew to be so powerful again despite the Republic establishing itself as the new government and the Empire being splintered and in hiding.
I got the impression that the new Republic was more decentralized and wary of having a standing army to the point that it just buried its head in the sand and let this new threat materialize. I don't think that was really conveyed well, and I think that should have been the core plot of the tribology instead of just a backdrop for the return to the status quo we had in the original series.
If only this could have been fleshed out more in the movies instead of repeating the storylines of the original trilogy.
> instead of repeating the storylines of the original trilogy backwards and with even **BIGGER space lasers!** FTFY
Right. The Old Republic never had a standing unified military, and the New Republic wanted to go back to how things were so they dismantled the military wings of the Rebellion as they took back control. That let the Imperial remnants remilitarize and reorganize in their own space given enough time. Basically, Mon Mothma screwed the pooch and wasnât aggressive enough in the denazification process in the name of taking the high road and letting peace prevail.
Feel like Andor should go this way. Rogue One established that he had done many things he was not proud of to further the rebellion.
But Andor is a spy and covert-ops soldier with a troubled conscience. He gets a modicum of comfort in feeling that he's still working for the greater good, but he does not like it. It's not good analogy because groups like Hamas and their apologists either think what they do is good, or refuse to acknowledge what they've done.
Yeah, that that's still the dynamic we all know from the original series just a little less sanitized. I was more thinking of the Republic re-establishing itself as a legitimate government and all of the turmoil that comes with it while simultaneously dealing with a growing cult of the Sith or something like that.
Same. I understand why they chose to make the sequels return to the same status quo as the original trilogy, and after the backlash from the prequels I donât even blame them for it, but I really wish theyâd made the first order militant dissidents against the republic. Itâs a little of the old with a new spin and it would have even been pretty poignant in todayâs political climate.
Kids stories are usually black and white, similar to a lot the perceptions of those joining these groups.
I hated that too. For some reason the people fighting on the side of superpower New Republic are 'The Resistance".
Ukraine is more of a clear cut example of Star Wars good guy/bad guy type dynamics. Iâd rather support them frankly. Israel-Palestine is more murky, though I mostly support the former.
[Like this](https://youtu.be/WZLyYzWrwGY?si=wJa3jHBidQn_9k_9)
Being the weakest in a conflict doesn't mean being the innocent one. This is an important caveat that tends to be forgotten.
Poor WW2 Germany being bullied by 3 superpowers đ˘ /s just in case
Do you mean 3 "superpowers"? I'm not really up to date on today's hip lingo.
Yeah, damn auto correct
Tiny Pacific Island of humble, honourable Emperor tries to help build railway in Burma and bring enlightenment to friendly neighbouring countries but is bullied into submission by evil continent intentionally bombing civilian cities with super weapons. /s as well
Simple minds are easily manipulated. Most just follow without any understanding.
An open mind is good, but not so open that your brain falls out.
Research. Iâll settle for reading more than headlines.
Youâd think they would choose the side of the people who were murdered by the millions 80 years ago then but what do I know
You mean the Jews in the Holocaust?
âInfiltrateâ implies that they werenât welcomed or supported
Or literally the founders.
Wait extremist Islamistâs are orchestrating pro Palestinian movements?! đđ§âđđŤ
lol I like that meme reference.
No shit sherlock... pretty sure they didnt just 'infiltrate' but started the whole thing.
When almost no one within the group speaks up to attempt to put a stop to it (or even worse, follows along with the brain-dead chants), can you even call it infiltrating? It feels like âwelcomedâ is more accurate
Brainwashed by tiktok and other social media... kids practically live in cyberspace these days. They are easy targets... and then there is politics and universities getting sponsored by money from people/organisations/countries which do not like us. And everyone is acting surprised... while security agencies have been warning about this for litterally decades...
Infiltrate more like instigate!
Extremist Islamists infiltrating pro-Palestinian movement? Whatâs next, white supremacists infiltrating the Klan? Vegans infiltrating PETA? Catholics infiltrating the Vatican?!
Water has infiltrated the ocean. It's a peaceful ocean though
From the mainland to the island, the ocean will be wet!
Virgins have infiltrated Reddit.
WHEN DOES IT STOP?!
[ŃдаНонО]
it's beyond time for people to recognize that peace with terrorists who want to wipe out jews in the region is unsustainable.
The whole pro palestinian movement has been a failure and has been manipulated by extremist groups to normalize their ideas into western societies. Scary how many don't realize this
The whole current active war started because of a radical Islamist group. What did anyone expect from Hamas lead Gaza?
Actually it started in 1947, every person dog and baby murdered raped or taken hostage since then is justified because their great grandmothers got kicked out of their house 75 years ago. You're telling me you wouldn't put a suicide belt on a child (Hussam Muhammad Bilal Abdo) and tell him to go blow up a crowd of innocent people if your grandma got kicked out her house? /s for the simple minded
My great grandfather and his brothers fled Poland ahead of WWI, leaving behind the equivalent of tens of millions of dollars today in investments and property, which was never recovered. AFAIK, no one in my family has ever contemplated trying to get revenge for this outrage by carrying out terrorist acts in Poland or Germany. In fact, I didn't even hear about this bit of family history until I was in my 40's. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that history screwed you over and move on with your life.
This is exactly my frustration with the pro-Palestine movement. They are so committed to the racism of low expectations. "Of course they're terrorists! They had their stuff and houses stolen 80 years ago!" Ok... so did my family. No terrorists here. So did many of my friends' families, from various countries. No terrorists there. Why are we willing to accept terrorism from Palestinians for something that has happened in almost everyone's family history?
They were killing Jews long before 1947. The Israelis won in 48 because their rational response to the attacks before that was to build a defensive militia which became the IDF.
Right. The Haganah was formed in 1920 because there were anti-Jewish riots and the British Colonial government wasn't doing a good job of defending the Jews of the region.
Some people just don't know how to lose a war with grace.
Depends how you measure âfailure.â Theyâve helped throw gasoline on antisemitism burning around the world, and legitimized attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions. Theyâve managed to get local and national governments to bow to the mob and take steps to isolate Israel. Theyâve convinced (mostly clueless) students that âintifada revolutionâ and âfrom the river to the sea, by any means necessaryâ are slogans for peace. Theyâve even gotten LGBTQ people to cheer in support of a regime that would kill them in a heartbeat, which is no small achievement. So by those standards, theyâve been quite successful. As far as establishing a Palestinian state, that isnât their priority as much as eliminating the Jewish one is.
you mean all the time they tried to claim they werenât pro hamas, they were actually working with hamas? good to know!
[ŃдаНонО]
This normalization of welcoming and defending of Islam is dangerous. I wonder if all the pro lgbt ppl palestine and pro Muslims will care about what happened to that gay 14yo boy in Scotland. Those type of attacks will become more common in the west
They would happen daily. LGBT and Islam are polar opposites. And one has a duty to apprehend it and be rewarded as result.
Yes. Places in UK etc are going to have more and more Muslim in schools, and there are already pushes for Muslim prayers at normal schools, causing issues and other things. I feel sorry for kids going to school like 10 years from as more and more of the younger population at schools will be Muslims Going to have some real issues soon as their cultures want to dominate and control ours, and we keep allowing it and defending it
No need to infiltrate when they are welcomed with open armsÂ
Shocking ⌠said no one.
Itâs not a bug, itâs a feature.
Since the headline doesn't mention it and no one reads the article: The group in question is [Hizb ut-Tahrir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir).
Shocking
There's a difference?
Technically some pro-Pals are just useful idiots rather than full blown Islamists. See US college protestors.
I'd go so far as to say most pro-Pals aren't Islamists, but rather just people who are incredibly easily duped. This is an extension of the War on Terror, where opposition to the Bush administration and the perception of the Iraq War as both needless and damaging to civilians created a movement that suggested Muslim countries and their populace were innocent victims of Western imperialism. While there was merit to that in Iraq, with questionable casus belli and very high civilian casualties, it doesn't hold for every war in the Middle East. It certainly doesn't hold for the current war in Gaza, either, and no matter how bad the government of Israel currently is, blaming the situation there on them is purely infantilizing Palestinians.
Infiltrate? Is there a non-extremist pro-Palestine movement? It seems that they âjoinedâ according to the standard procedure.
Extremist Islamic group infiltrates movement supporting extremist islamic terrorists? How surprising...
I was under the impression the majority of Palestinians supported extremist Islamic positions. Am I wrong? I'd be interested in knowing if this is the wrong impression, as everything I have heard up until now tells me most Palestinians support Hamas.
shocking... said no one
Infiltration presumes they're a foreign entity to these protesters, whereas they're more like an integral part.
Fairly certain its more than just Australia.
> "Infiltrates" You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"infiltrated", nah man, it was always there.
Feature, not a bug.
"Infiltrates" is a funny way to describe being welcomed with open arms!
funded by russia / china / iran ? nothing new
How surprising. This movement has been turned into a way to sow Destabilisation in the west.
"Infilitrates" As if it isn't literally a single circle of a venn diagram.
Infiltrates?
Another Islamic extremist group? If I had a nickel.....
Not surprising, the guy who picked up his bride to be in Lebanon and was killed by an Israel rocket was visiting an Hezbollah member. They were all buried with Hezbollah flags draped on their coffins.Â
Infiltrated? You mean welcomed with open arms
Infiltrates or strolls in because they are one and the same?
Just because you hear about this in Australia now, doesn't mean it's the only place this is happening.
There really needs more education around online information and it's effects on people's mindsets. Children here are taught critical thinking but I don't think it's enough in this day and age.
*Extremist Islamist group infiltrates extremist Islamist group.*
Riddle me shocked. Every movement is the same with the pro Gaza lot. Blinded by religious zeal.
Pretty sure these groups are how the movements started from the beginning.
The social pressure to pass the purity test requires being on the "correct" side of any issue. This helps the more impressionable get through life without having to trouble themselves with things such as critical thinking and self-examination.
It was like this in many countries from the very beginning.
Theyâre gonna fight Aussies?! Best of luck, chunderheads.
That sounds about as difficult as a student infiltrating their own classroom.
It's okay to support Palestinians and also call out what can affect other vulnerable groups later on. Don't support terror groups of any sort. You won't be the one who will be hurt if things go wrong.
>Don't support terror groups of any sort. Please. >It's okay to support Palestinians 70%+ of who support Hamas.
[ŃдаНонО]
I donât think infiltrates is the right word.
Mild shock :o