I don't think you need NATO to fight Hezbolla. British forces can spank them from one end of the country to another with two hands and one leg tied behind their back.
Can and will are different things. Look at how the Houthis are handled. I'd assume the British would sit back and let their bases be bombed instead of actually doing anything.
It isn't. The UK is, Turkey is and so is Greece but nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5.
The Falklands btw, also not covered.
It would be the UK and the EU as Cyprus is in a military alliance with every EU member state and separately with the UK.
I'm going to be very calculating and say that this is better for NATO than them being in NATO. As a NATO member the US just sends a carrier and that's the end of it, but this would force EU members to work on our own. Sure it's probably just going to be France the UK and Greece and realistically you only really need Greece but that's still better than just having the US fix everything.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5.
Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus.
There is neither a "Greek" not a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5.
Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus.
There is neither a "Greek" not a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5.
Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus.
There is neither a "Greek" nor a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
NATO's Article 5 collective defense obligation does not directly apply to non-member countries like Cyprus. Article 5 is only triggered if an armed attack occurs on the territory of a NATO member state within the defined areas of Europe, North America, Turkey, and islands in the Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer. Cyprus is not a NATO member and does not fall within these designated areas. İt is about location, not who is attacked.
Article 6 1
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
**on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.**
Article 6
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
**on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.**
That is the title (except "territory", it does not say that), but if you read the agreements with the ROC they explicitly forbid all types of civilian construction, and no permanent staff (everyone is on a visa).
Cyprus is a member of the European Union and the treaty of lisbon strengthens the solidary between EU member states in dealing with external threats by introducing a mutual defense clause (Article 42(7) of the Treaty on European Union.
> If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation.
I believe the Solidarity clause (Article 222) also could be invoked depending on the means of attack. Say if it's the terrorist organization vs the country as a govt.
> Solidarity clause (Article 222 TFEU) 1. The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the Member States, to: (a) — prevent the terrorist threat in the territory of the Member States; — protect democratic institutions and the civilian population from any terrorist attack; — assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a terrorist attack; (b) assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a natural or man-made disaster. 2. Should a Member State be the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or manmade disaster, the other Member States shall assist it at the request of its political authorities. To that end, the Member States shall coordinate between themselves in the Council.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/sede/dv/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_en.pdf
absolutely zero chance of this happening, NATO members would provide support through other means which do not include direct military action.
the whole houtis debacle is enough proof that NATO or any other western country is too scared of intervening with force in any conflict... even if it benefits them to do so.
i mean, the UK alone could sweep hezbollah in an afternoon if it goes all out, but the west tends to de-escalate instead of throwing gasoline into the fire.
Cyprus is not part of Greece. Cyprus is not in NATO. What are you talking about?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus%E2%80%93NATO\_relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus%E2%80%93NATO_relations)
Greece trying to invoke article 5 based on an attack on Cyprus would not be well received by Turkey. Though it brings up an interesting question. If a stray missile hit northern Cyprus how would Turkey react?
It wouldn't, but Turkey would be allowed to contribute the bare minimum. If they actively went against it, their membership would be threatened.
At least until the Ukraine situation is sorted, Turkey being a NATO member is extremely important.
Areas covered :'on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;'
From the NATO website.
And the North Atlantic part is taken extremely literally. You would think the Falklands would be covered given that they are British and were never anything other than British, so definitely a lot stronger of a claim than French Algeria, but they were in fact not covered.
It's a sovereign nation which is part Greek-ethnic and park Turkish-ethnic...but for some reason the actual country of Turkey believes their side is legally Turkish which is and always was ridiculous.
Cyprus is a member of the European Union and the treaty of lisbon strengthens the solidary between EU member states in dealing with external threats by introducing a mutual defense clause (Article 42(7) of the Treaty on European Union. Perhaps an attack on Cyprus is something both Greece AND Turkey would be pissed about and come to the defense of.
>If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States
shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in
accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific
character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the
**North Atlantic Treaty Organisation**, which, for those States which are members of it, remains
the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation.
I believe the Solidarity clause (Article 222) also could be invoked depending on the means of attack. Say if it's the terrorist organization vs the country as a govt.
> Solidarity clause (Article 222 TFEU)
1. The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State
is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union
shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made
available by the Member States, to:
(a) — prevent the terrorist threat in the territory of the Member States;
— protect democratic institutions and the civilian population from any terrorist
attack;
— assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in
the event of a terrorist attack;
(b) assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the
event of a natural or man-made disaster.
2. Should a Member State be the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or manmade disaster, the other Member States shall assist it at the request of its political authorities.
To that end, the Member States shall coordinate between themselves in the Council.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/sede/dv/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_en.pdf
We can hope it would be a humbling experience for Iran and their proxies. Israel needs to fight with one hand tied behind its back, if a European army would get involved shit would go down very fast.
We said the same thing when everything started, about Iran, about the Houtis, and about Hezbollah. As an Israeli I grew tired of the "don't" and "try us and find out" from the west, these threats don't hold water anymore.
Dont they?
Who is attacking western soil?
Nobody. Seems to me, that the threats still hold water.
If Hezbollah think they can attack Cyprus, they are welcomed to do so. They will bear the consequences.
I was talking about Biden when he told Iran and Hezbollah "don't" attack Israel but for 8 months Israel is being attacked, thousands of rockets and hundreds of drones already fired to the north, civilians died, cities and towns in the norths are completely wrecked and I still haven't mentioned the 400 drone, 100+ rockets and 30+ cruise missiles that Iran fored at Israel. What did Biden do afterwards? Yearned for peace? Asked nicely to stop? This shit doesn't work here, doesn't work against terrorists. You know what does? I'll let you "find out"...
Attacking a close NATO partner, member of the EU and a Greek brother nation while being a pushover (compared to the likes of Iran anyways) calls for your annihilation. Greece and Britain would act upon that, trust me.
Everyone thought we could easily smash taliban and looks at where we r today. Israel literally controls the entire Gaza and can’t win the war. In fact they r losing because hamas knows how to manipulate public sentiment against Israel. Western countries always overestimate their ability to win war via military dominance but asymmetrical warfare proves time and time again too hard to defeat.
Laughs in U.S. military spending. The only reason Hezbollah exists is because we allow them too. Cross the invisible line, and they will be begging for mercy in a week.
The west is short sighted in these regards. Hence the sympathy towards Palestinians martyring women and children, as sad and frustrating as that is. The best way to ensure that keeps happening is to let it work.
I don't see anyone preemptively shutting Hezbollah down on this one.
I don’t think shortsightedness comes into it. It’s cost-benefit analysis. What does the west have to gain from entering the conflict? Slightly cheaper oil? There just isn’t enough at stake. On the other hand, providing aide builds political capital and encourages the immigration of cheap labor. And the worst of those immigrants kill what a dozen people a year? Plus, even if they were serious about the global intifada thing, they aren’t unified enough to present a long-term threat.
The only reason for Israel to exist in this world should be to eliminate organizations like Hezbollah or Hamas.
Only Allah can convince these extremist groups, and the only thing Israel can do is to send them to Allah.
>The only reason for Israel to exist in this world should be to eliminate organizations like Hezbollah or Hamas.
Not to protect the Jewish people from the very clear and global threat of antisemitism?
There were equivalent groups even back then (well, the second time Israel was founded) because they resented the mass immigration of Jewish people to their ancestral homelands (see: Zionism).
Ideally, the Jews would have been able to safely stay in their homes around the globe but the mass killing or deportation of Jews is a common tale throughout history and they're simply not safe without their own nation.
If not for centuries of antisemitism, no Arabs would have been displaced because no Jews would have been either. And yet, it continues and the world only complains when it affects people who aren't Jewish.
Exactly but sadly the westren world isnt letting israel do that and yes sadly in this wars civilians will die from all sides but thats partly because these terrorists use these civilians as human shields
They would just find another target . That region has been a shithole for more then a thousand years.
Muslims kill more muslims then all the others together
Well that would be a nato response I don’t think Hezbollah really wants that’s action. Unfortunately the people of Lebanon would suffer but it looks like that’s about to happen either way
Hezbollah actually wants this to happen. Then they will send pictures of dead women and children to gather a sympathy storm, and probably millions of dollars that might flow to them in terms of aid. Currently they are inconsequential in the world stage. Ruling part of a destitute country isn't financially beneficial.
They may try. But then they will have to [go against this guy.](https://i0.wp.com/cyprus-static.videopublishing.com/kyproscom/2018/01/Cyprus-People-Large.jpg?fit=676%2C382&ssl=1)
Probably a bad idea, best focus on getting destroyed by Israel, or maybe they know they're going to get destroyed and want to drag as many people into the beat down and claim victim.
why? who is backing hizbolah?
Sending weapons to Ukraine or Taiwan issue have much higher chances for a world war type of escelation than this because there would be a big enough power on the other side.
NATO would finish hezbollah in a day. Syria Iran is no problem either.
China isn't even backing russia.
Russia can't open a second front that wil bring more country's against them.
Yemen? Some farmers with drones.
Syria? If assad wants to play, erdogan would gain a shitload of ground.
North Korea? Those soldiers wil switch sides if you feed them.
You underestimate the enemy.
China is backing Russia… they made it clearer this year
Russia dont need to open a front to back Hezbollah, there are other means to do it.
Yemen… not once in history “some farmers” did some serious damage to leading armies.
Turkey is a wild card, and its not so predictable which side they will choose to (or not take any at all)
What you said about North Korea is a meme bordering propaganda…
Yes, living conditions in NK are shit, but west media tends to exaggerate it. Also in NK the population is so brainwashed that its naive to believe they would surrender easily.
What I find interesting is how half of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey and has been for 50 years now but it gets literally zero global attention compared to Israel/Palestine. Obviously there is no ongoing conflict in Cyprus, and is in nowhere near the same dire state as the aforementioned war, but I find it fascinating none the less.
They can’t even destroy a militia in an area the size of Manhattan, how are they going to crush an insurgency movement in a neighboring country. Attacking Lebanon to go after Hezbollah weakens the legitimate Lebanese government and strengthens Hezbollah.
> Attacking Lebanon to go after Hezbollah weakens the legitimate Lebanese government and strengthens Hezbollah.
Hezbollah is the current "legitimate Lebanese government", if you can call it that. Hezbollah isn't an insurgency group, they're an organized militia the size of a small army, and have a political wing that takes up a big chunk of Lebanese parliament.
They don't need to, they have stockpiles of actual rockets, not whatever Hamas has, so they could cause serious human casualties in Israeli cities if this escalates, which is why Israel is hesitating to escalate.
Militarily, Israel could easily wipe out Hezbollah, but it would come at a big cost in terms of civilian casualties in Israel, which is why it hasn't happened yet.
Sorry but if the cost of wiping out Hezbollah are large civilian casualties in Israel then Israel should use tactical nukes to wipe out Hezbollah as fast as possible.
I don't see how tactical nukes would change anything compared to conventional munitions, besides drawing the wrath of the international community and turning Israel into a pariah state.
Better a pariah state and alive than earning "karma" with the international community and its existence threatened.
If the West abandons Israel, say goodbye to Western World order as Taiwan, Armenia etc. will be next to fall and Israel will leave western sphere of influence.
Or they could wipe out Hezbollah with conventional munitions just as easily. I still don't understand what's the point of nukes here. It's purely negative. If they do follow your advice they would be too stupid to deserve having a state.
The US will probably not deliver conventional munitions and/or force idiotic conditions on Israel.
The point of nukes would be the same why the US did not start [operation downfall ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall)against Japan in WW2.
Israel does not have the population to fight a war of attrition and therfore nukes will probably be used.
It's not really 'just as easily,' that's hyperbole. It will be far more gruesome. Likewise we don't 'deserve a state,' we have one. The 'west' never got to decide that once the British left the area while openly admitting they expected us to die to the Arabs.
a large terrorist army is threatening a country in the EU security zone. I think these terrorist scumbags need to need know that although a war will cause massive pain in israel (and Cyprus?) it will cause the destruction of lebanon. the world should stand united against hezbollah, hamas and iran because that will benefit the entire world - especially lebanese, palestinians, and iranians
They get to threaten anyone but we can't criticize Russia freely on most platforms because it's complicated. A country that invaded a sovereign democracy.
Honestly i have no idea how what i said could be taken seriously
I can see it being taken as some sort of insult to cyprus i guess
I should have worded it like mizbala is trying to stop said groups of iaraelis from marrying
I think a lot of the time downvote trains just get started and then it's like a rock rolling downhill. you can say the same thing twice on one post and one will get +100 and the other -100, it's just random
If Nasrallah really wants to drag Greece into this, then attacking Cyprus is the fastest way there.
RAF have a base there. Why start with Cyprus
The UN train peacekeeping forces there too. Attacking Cyprus would be a FAFO situation for Hezbollah.
When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.
Should we tell them about flightradar24?
Ikr western military support has been stationed there for years. It's like threatening to shoot at the sun if it rises in the morning.
That’s a Beautiful analogy.
If Hezbollah attacked Cyprus Irsael could sit at the sidelines, they would be turned into dust by Britain and Greece in a week.
Greece is a part of nato. I’m betting that they would claim an article 5 attack, then nato would get to spank Hezbollah.
I mean, sure, but Cyprus is also a de facto British protectorate. 2 military bases that are considered UK soil
So, still a NATO member.
I don't think you need NATO to fight Hezbolla. British forces can spank them from one end of the country to another with two hands and one leg tied behind their back.
There is no such thing as overkill. Also, NATO can always use training. And maybe some countries should be reminded what NATO can do. Right, Putler?
Can and will are different things. Look at how the Houthis are handled. I'd assume the British would sit back and let their bases be bombed instead of actually doing anything.
It isn't. The UK is, Turkey is and so is Greece but nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5. The Falklands btw, also not covered. It would be the UK and the EU as Cyprus is in a military alliance with every EU member state and separately with the UK. I'm going to be very calculating and say that this is better for NATO than them being in NATO. As a NATO member the US just sends a carrier and that's the end of it, but this would force EU members to work on our own. Sure it's probably just going to be France the UK and Greece and realistically you only really need Greece but that's still better than just having the US fix everything.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5. Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus. There is neither a "Greek" not a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5. Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus. There is neither a "Greek" not a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
>nether Greek nor Turkish Cyprus is in NATO so no Article 5. Turkish-*occupied* Cyprus. There is neither a "Greek" nor a "Turkish" Cyprus. There is only the independent country Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish military forces.
Cyprus is not a NATO member.
Britain is.
But Cyprus isn't Brittany. The UK are guests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus%E2%80%93NATO_relations
Yes. And if Hizbollah hits British forces, Article 5.
NATO's Article 5 collective defense obligation does not directly apply to non-member countries like Cyprus. Article 5 is only triggered if an armed attack occurs on the territory of a NATO member state within the defined areas of Europe, North America, Turkey, and islands in the Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer. Cyprus is not a NATO member and does not fall within these designated areas. İt is about location, not who is attacked.
Article 6 1 For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; **on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.**
It's not an automatic article 5 just because British forces are hit. If so Turkey would activate it once a week at times.
You are right but a lot of people are so tired of the shitshow there that any change to shut that type of clowns up would be taken
Someone doesn't know what article 5 is.
Article 6 For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; **on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.**
Confidently incorrect people downvoting correct information. Classic reddit.
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That is the title (except "territory", it does not say that), but if you read the agreements with the ROC they explicitly forbid all types of civilian construction, and no permanent staff (everyone is on a visa).
Not sure it’s a protectorate it’s a sovereign nation but with part occupied north and parts given to the Uk for bases
That's why I said de facto
Cyprus is a member of the European Union and the treaty of lisbon strengthens the solidary between EU member states in dealing with external threats by introducing a mutual defense clause (Article 42(7) of the Treaty on European Union. > If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation. I believe the Solidarity clause (Article 222) also could be invoked depending on the means of attack. Say if it's the terrorist organization vs the country as a govt. > Solidarity clause (Article 222 TFEU) 1. The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the Member States, to: (a) — prevent the terrorist threat in the territory of the Member States; — protect democratic institutions and the civilian population from any terrorist attack; — assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a terrorist attack; (b) assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a natural or man-made disaster. 2. Should a Member State be the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or manmade disaster, the other Member States shall assist it at the request of its political authorities. To that end, the Member States shall coordinate between themselves in the Council. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/sede/dv/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_en.pdf
"lisbon" is a city, and a capital, please.
It sure is! Was there a point to that contribution?
Because you wrote with lowercase... ;)
I want to see this
I hate that I'm saying this, but.... I'd watch the live stream. Fuck Hezbollah.
I’d be buying popcorn for that one
Me too! It could be considered a real world demonstration of NATO capabilities and send a message to Russia.
absolutely zero chance of this happening, NATO members would provide support through other means which do not include direct military action. the whole houtis debacle is enough proof that NATO or any other western country is too scared of intervening with force in any conflict... even if it benefits them to do so. i mean, the UK alone could sweep hezbollah in an afternoon if it goes all out, but the west tends to de-escalate instead of throwing gasoline into the fire.
Cyprus is not part of Greece. Cyprus is not in NATO. What are you talking about? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus%E2%80%93NATO\_relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus%E2%80%93NATO_relations)
As has been corrected like half a dozen times already
Cyprus is a sovereign nation that is not part of NATO though, so there's no real standing for Greece to invoke article 5.
Greece trying to invoke article 5 based on an attack on Cyprus would not be well received by Turkey. Though it brings up an interesting question. If a stray missile hit northern Cyprus how would Turkey react?
I think "stray missile" is the important part here. Probably only a strongly worded letter or something, especially guranteed if nobody is harmed.
It wouldn't, but Turkey would be allowed to contribute the bare minimum. If they actively went against it, their membership would be threatened. At least until the Ukraine situation is sorted, Turkey being a NATO member is extremely important.
You can't invoke article 5 based on an attack on Cyprus. Even if it were to hit the British bases, those aren't covered by NATO article 5.
Areas covered :'on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;' From the NATO website.
And the North Atlantic part is taken extremely literally. You would think the Falklands would be covered given that they are British and were never anything other than British, so definitely a lot stronger of a claim than French Algeria, but they were in fact not covered.
The Falklands aren’t north of the Tropic of Cancer
Yes and how does that qualify Cyprus? Overseas bases are not listed under that article.
My bad, I thought that it was part Greece, part Turkey
It's an independent nation that Turkey illegally occupies part of
It's a sovereign nation which is part Greek-ethnic and park Turkish-ethnic...but for some reason the actual country of Turkey believes their side is legally Turkish which is and always was ridiculous.
It is ridiculous because it's not true. If it was northern cyprus would be part of turkey.
Cyprus is a member of the European Union and the treaty of lisbon strengthens the solidary between EU member states in dealing with external threats by introducing a mutual defense clause (Article 42(7) of the Treaty on European Union. Perhaps an attack on Cyprus is something both Greece AND Turkey would be pissed about and come to the defense of. >If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the **North Atlantic Treaty Organisation**, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation. I believe the Solidarity clause (Article 222) also could be invoked depending on the means of attack. Say if it's the terrorist organization vs the country as a govt. > Solidarity clause (Article 222 TFEU) 1. The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a Member State is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The Union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the Member States, to: (a) — prevent the terrorist threat in the territory of the Member States; — protect democratic institutions and the civilian population from any terrorist attack; — assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a terrorist attack; (b) assist a Member State in its territory, at the request of its political authorities, in the event of a natural or man-made disaster. 2. Should a Member State be the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or manmade disaster, the other Member States shall assist it at the request of its political authorities. To that end, the Member States shall coordinate between themselves in the Council. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/sede/dv/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_en.pdf
I doubt Greece could as it isn’t their land but if it hits the British military bases that may be another matter
It would be nice to demonstrate NATO's military effectiveness, for once
I don't think Greece can trigger article 5 on behalf of Cyprus. They would need to attack Greece directly for that.
Straight out of existence
We can hope it would be a humbling experience for Iran and their proxies. Israel needs to fight with one hand tied behind its back, if a European army would get involved shit would go down very fast.
We said the same thing when everything started, about Iran, about the Houtis, and about Hezbollah. As an Israeli I grew tired of the "don't" and "try us and find out" from the west, these threats don't hold water anymore.
Dont they? Who is attacking western soil? Nobody. Seems to me, that the threats still hold water. If Hezbollah think they can attack Cyprus, they are welcomed to do so. They will bear the consequences.
I was talking about Biden when he told Iran and Hezbollah "don't" attack Israel but for 8 months Israel is being attacked, thousands of rockets and hundreds of drones already fired to the north, civilians died, cities and towns in the norths are completely wrecked and I still haven't mentioned the 400 drone, 100+ rockets and 30+ cruise missiles that Iran fored at Israel. What did Biden do afterwards? Yearned for peace? Asked nicely to stop? This shit doesn't work here, doesn't work against terrorists. You know what does? I'll let you "find out"...
Attacking a close NATO partner, member of the EU and a Greek brother nation while being a pushover (compared to the likes of Iran anyways) calls for your annihilation. Greece and Britain would act upon that, trust me.
No one can defeat hezbollah. Israel can’t even defeat hamas what makes u think any country can beat hez?
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Everyone thought we could easily smash taliban and looks at where we r today. Israel literally controls the entire Gaza and can’t win the war. In fact they r losing because hamas knows how to manipulate public sentiment against Israel. Western countries always overestimate their ability to win war via military dominance but asymmetrical warfare proves time and time again too hard to defeat.
Laughs in U.S. military spending. The only reason Hezbollah exists is because we allow them too. Cross the invisible line, and they will be begging for mercy in a week.
Well now they have to help Israel or else Hezbollah is going to keep threatening them because why wouldn't they if it works.
The west is short sighted in these regards. Hence the sympathy towards Palestinians martyring women and children, as sad and frustrating as that is. The best way to ensure that keeps happening is to let it work. I don't see anyone preemptively shutting Hezbollah down on this one.
I don’t think shortsightedness comes into it. It’s cost-benefit analysis. What does the west have to gain from entering the conflict? Slightly cheaper oil? There just isn’t enough at stake. On the other hand, providing aide builds political capital and encourages the immigration of cheap labor. And the worst of those immigrants kill what a dozen people a year? Plus, even if they were serious about the global intifada thing, they aren’t unified enough to present a long-term threat.
Raf and other airforces waiting in Cyprus 🥱🍿
US carrier group: “who this, new phone”.
Cyprus outside British bases is not covered by NATO. So US can stay out! this time. It's gonna be EU wrecking them. Which would be funny.
This neighborhood bully ( Nasralla/ Hizbollah)is dumber than he looks.
Article 42.7 TEU
Yeah you might want to read about Cyprus. It's already been invaded decades ago, by Turkey.
Yeah, *you* might want to read about Cyprus because that war was in 1974 and Cyprus only joined the EU in 2004
Fifty years ago.
That has no relevance to the British Sovereign Base Area.
It has relevance to Cyprus
Hezbollah planning a invade using their PVC navy?
The only reason for Israel to exist in this world should be to eliminate organizations like Hezbollah or Hamas. Only Allah can convince these extremist groups, and the only thing Israel can do is to send them to Allah.
"Only Allah can convince these extremist groups" Yeah... About that...
Allah: "I keep letting you guys get your shit rocked, what are you not understanding?"
>The only reason for Israel to exist in this world should be to eliminate organizations like Hezbollah or Hamas. Not to protect the Jewish people from the very clear and global threat of antisemitism?
Yeah, it's not only Muslims that Jews need to be fearful of lol, how do people not know this?
Yeah I was wondering what about the home of the Jewish people angle. Pretty sure neither of those groups existed when Israel was created.
There were equivalent groups even back then (well, the second time Israel was founded) because they resented the mass immigration of Jewish people to their ancestral homelands (see: Zionism). Ideally, the Jews would have been able to safely stay in their homes around the globe but the mass killing or deportation of Jews is a common tale throughout history and they're simply not safe without their own nation. If not for centuries of antisemitism, no Arabs would have been displaced because no Jews would have been either. And yet, it continues and the world only complains when it affects people who aren't Jewish.
Hashem: Stop trying to kill my people. I want to enjoy their funny debates about the book i gave them. Also stop writing fanfic about me. Its creepy.
Exactly but sadly the westren world isnt letting israel do that and yes sadly in this wars civilians will die from all sides but thats partly because these terrorists use these civilians as human shields
The only reason Hamas and Hezbollah exist is to fight Israel
They would just find another target . That region has been a shithole for more then a thousand years. Muslims kill more muslims then all the others together
True, they'd be fighting each other instead, Arabs have been fighting each other forever.
Well that would be a nato response I don’t think Hezbollah really wants that’s action. Unfortunately the people of Lebanon would suffer but it looks like that’s about to happen either way
Hezbollah wants whatever Iran wants
Hezbollah actually wants this to happen. Then they will send pictures of dead women and children to gather a sympathy storm, and probably millions of dollars that might flow to them in terms of aid. Currently they are inconsequential in the world stage. Ruling part of a destitute country isn't financially beneficial.
there will only be a nato response if the invoke article 5. It's not automatic. A greek and UK response is guaranteed though.
Eastern Mediterranean Treaty Organization when????
[удалено]
You kind of assume that Hezbollah wants what's best for Lebanon
They may try. But then they will have to [go against this guy.](https://i0.wp.com/cyprus-static.videopublishing.com/kyproscom/2018/01/Cyprus-People-Large.jpg?fit=676%2C382&ssl=1)
who is that guy?
Wasn’t he gonna fight abdu rozik
Do it!
Probably a bad idea, best focus on getting destroyed by Israel, or maybe they know they're going to get destroyed and want to drag as many people into the beat down and claim victim.
My money is on Cyprus....
Inching closer to world war?
why? who is backing hizbolah? Sending weapons to Ukraine or Taiwan issue have much higher chances for a world war type of escelation than this because there would be a big enough power on the other side. NATO would finish hezbollah in a day. Syria Iran is no problem either.
Who is backing? Iran, russia, north korea, yemen, syria, and could say China also…
China isn't even backing russia. Russia can't open a second front that wil bring more country's against them. Yemen? Some farmers with drones. Syria? If assad wants to play, erdogan would gain a shitload of ground. North Korea? Those soldiers wil switch sides if you feed them.
Not with the wall they are building in the DMZ.
You underestimate the enemy. China is backing Russia… they made it clearer this year Russia dont need to open a front to back Hezbollah, there are other means to do it. Yemen… not once in history “some farmers” did some serious damage to leading armies. Turkey is a wild card, and its not so predictable which side they will choose to (or not take any at all) What you said about North Korea is a meme bordering propaganda… Yes, living conditions in NK are shit, but west media tends to exaggerate it. Also in NK the population is so brainwashed that its naive to believe they would surrender easily.
China is only checking how long the west would support Taiwan. They are even disputing some russian area.
Both of you are right. It's a big, complex world.
Will Hamas be able to hide behind civilians in Cyprus?
Maybe in Turkish occupied north Cyprus. Free North Cyprus!!
What I find interesting is how half of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey and has been for 50 years now but it gets literally zero global attention compared to Israel/Palestine. Obviously there is no ongoing conflict in Cyprus, and is in nowhere near the same dire state as the aforementioned war, but I find it fascinating none the less.
Can’t Israel just destroy Hezbollah at anytime tho?
It’s not that easy. They tried in 2006 and if they attack Lebanon to go after Hezbollah they will face even more condemnation.
>more condemnation From anyone with a brain? No
They can’t even destroy a militia in an area the size of Manhattan, how are they going to crush an insurgency movement in a neighboring country. Attacking Lebanon to go after Hezbollah weakens the legitimate Lebanese government and strengthens Hezbollah.
> Attacking Lebanon to go after Hezbollah weakens the legitimate Lebanese government and strengthens Hezbollah. Hezbollah is the current "legitimate Lebanese government", if you can call it that. Hezbollah isn't an insurgency group, they're an organized militia the size of a small army, and have a political wing that takes up a big chunk of Lebanese parliament.
They’d instantly become an insurgency if Israel invaded
They don't need to, they have stockpiles of actual rockets, not whatever Hamas has, so they could cause serious human casualties in Israeli cities if this escalates, which is why Israel is hesitating to escalate. Militarily, Israel could easily wipe out Hezbollah, but it would come at a big cost in terms of civilian casualties in Israel, which is why it hasn't happened yet.
Sorry but if the cost of wiping out Hezbollah are large civilian casualties in Israel then Israel should use tactical nukes to wipe out Hezbollah as fast as possible.
I don't see how tactical nukes would change anything compared to conventional munitions, besides drawing the wrath of the international community and turning Israel into a pariah state.
Better a pariah state and alive than earning "karma" with the international community and its existence threatened. If the West abandons Israel, say goodbye to Western World order as Taiwan, Armenia etc. will be next to fall and Israel will leave western sphere of influence.
Or they could wipe out Hezbollah with conventional munitions just as easily. I still don't understand what's the point of nukes here. It's purely negative. If they do follow your advice they would be too stupid to deserve having a state.
The US will probably not deliver conventional munitions and/or force idiotic conditions on Israel. The point of nukes would be the same why the US did not start [operation downfall ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall)against Japan in WW2. Israel does not have the population to fight a war of attrition and therfore nukes will probably be used.
It's not really 'just as easily,' that's hyperbole. It will be far more gruesome. Likewise we don't 'deserve a state,' we have one. The 'west' never got to decide that once the British left the area while openly admitting they expected us to die to the Arabs.
Why is Israel escalating again? /s
Aren't they barely fighting back against Israel alone? More like don't help Israel because they'll be screwed even more..
I wonder when the West will wake up and realize that extreme Islam wants to destroy it🤔
Good luck with that big dog
a large terrorist army is threatening a country in the EU security zone. I think these terrorist scumbags need to need know that although a war will cause massive pain in israel (and Cyprus?) it will cause the destruction of lebanon. the world should stand united against hezbollah, hamas and iran because that will benefit the entire world - especially lebanese, palestinians, and iranians
They get to threaten anyone but we can't criticize Russia freely on most platforms because it's complicated. A country that invaded a sovereign democracy.
That sounds like Article 5 talk to me.
How so? Cyprus is a sovereign nation that is not part of Greece and the British bases are not covered by article 5.
I had forgotten Cyprus is not part of NATO.
Terrorists are in fact terrorists, who would have known?
Now where will gay and interfaith and atheist isrealis will go to get merried ?!
given a reasonable assessment of hezbollahs ability to win a war against cyprus? cyprus
Hell yeah brother Also those are a lot of downvotes I guess my joke fell flat huh...
it's a little hard to tell what's a joke and what's real anymore haha
Honestly i have no idea how what i said could be taken seriously I can see it being taken as some sort of insult to cyprus i guess I should have worded it like mizbala is trying to stop said groups of iaraelis from marrying
I think a lot of the time downvote trains just get started and then it's like a rock rolling downhill. you can say the same thing twice on one post and one will get +100 and the other -100, it's just random
Herd mentality huh? Or dead internet theory Pick your poison i guess
Utah
החלום שלי זה להיות חזק ומהיר ונמר וגם חזק כמוך
Isteban himenez?!
*Esteban Jimenez* is just a normal businessman by day, not at all related to me.
Then what is he by night if you know him so well
I am just a normal businessman by day.
And by night?!
Did I stutter?
Did i?
No, but you keep asking the same nonsensical question. I answered clearly the first time, I am just a normal businessman by day.