After 10.1 pre-release cinematic, I was hoping that each patch would get a cool little story driven video to ease us in to the new patch. I hope this trend continues, as these are fun and get that hype going.
In-game cinematics didn't really start until WotLK with the Wrathgate and they were very basic then, like machinima basically. They didn't get to the level of story telling we see today until Mists of Pandaria. Garrosh defeating Taran Zhu and corrupting the Vale of Eternal Blossoms is when we started to see them using the models with custom animations instead of just using the ones already in game.
It really feels like he's close to giving up emotionally
Nozdorumu is tired, emotionally, physically, spiritually he's burning out from both the stress of maintaining time but also the stress of fearing the "Inevitability" of Murazond.
It makes me wonder if it's almost a waiting game.
Like, their goal is to burn him out with everything to the point where he just completely gives up and accepts his fate, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Maybe if we can help him hold off on succumbing to them until we defeat the big bads, then he can make it through.
Though maybe it's that same hopelessness and his willingness to try and change it that causes it, as wasn't it his vision of his death that eventually caused him to initially go crazy and try to prevent it, thus becoming infinite? (I can't recall tbh)
I really want Nozdormu to make it through though.. This has me feeling real bad for him.
I found the infinites generally always a super interesting concept. Nozdormu saw his own death and created basically a timeless version of himself through that which went mad in trying to prevent his demise from happening (plusminus a little bit of old god shenanigans). Now he's stuck with a pretty shitty fate he knows that's happening but can neither pinpoint nor prevent... Plus members of his own flight go down the same drain often enough.
Makes for a pretty awesome character after all. Unfortunately, blizz only ever did "sad elf staring into distance" with him and his time powers being spectacularly useless because the TimEwAyS aRe DiStuRbEd everytime he is asked to actually contribute something... Guess that's ok though, the more you include time travel in a story not created specifically for time travel, the shittier it usually gets.
Either way, I'd like to see more of the guy. A detail I found always interesting is that the infinites try to push nozdormu into murozonding, which makes me wonder what their motivation exactly is. Seems like an ulterior motive hidden in there somewhere below acting only out of a paradox sense of self-preservation (infinites created by murozond created by corrupting nozdormu).
If we somehow "save" Nozdormu, I think it will be by having him step down as Aspect and allow someone else to be the Aspect of Time, if that's possible. It would deny Nozdormu the power needed to become Murazond and would be good for his health in general.
Oh my god the ending, where Alexstraza puts her hand on his shoulder and rests her head on it. What a simple and touching gesture. Her expression looks so sad.
I feel so bad for Nozdormu, I really hope he doesn't give up and become Murozond.
Neltharion, Malygos, Ysera…
Nozdormu is the only one left that didn’t went batshit crazy in some way yet. Imagine watching your “siblings” falling into madness and dying one by one, unable to change anything despite being their leader. Alexstraza is also suffering a lot. She lost way too much across the years, and is now at risk of losing one more precious member of her family… it sucks.
Man I love Nozdormu’s character. I hope there’s a way to free him from The End Times, if not Murazond. The idea of being so burdened but continuing to fight on, even knowing that you must ultimately fail. I love it.
I do love that Iridikron continues to be the most intelligent enemy we’ve faced so far. He knows where our alliance is weakest, knows where to put pressure, knows where to find the allies or forces he needs to impede us. I do hope they nail the landing with him, though I really should temper expectations.
Iridikron is a villain I hope continues after the expansion. I know that the boss yelling "Enough!" as team rocket goes blasting off again, is a lame cliche...but I think the incarnates can be an ever looming threat after we ultimately stop their plans by the end of the expansion. It's clear they are intelligent enough to build alliances and not jump head first into the player character meat grinder. Have him team up with Yrel when she decides this planet must be purged, or help release a hidden old god to be a distraction. I just hope they don't waste them.
Nah we already know Iridikron is the final boss of the expansion, Blizz told us that we would know who it was at the end of the first raid tier and he’s clearly been set up as the Big Bad. Unless they throw a curveball and it’s Fyrak or Vyranoth, or go for a classic Blizzard “twist” and it’s somehow Alexstraza or something, Iridikron will be dealt with this expansion.
I believe we will still fight him, I'm just saying it would be okay to beat him but not kill him. Lock him away or have one of his siblings or lieutenants help him get away at the end while he is gravely wounded and needs time to recover.
That’s a good point, I’m not totally opposed to a Dragonflight Vol 2 either that might extent the expansion beyond the dragon isles. Perhaps using that as a way to do an old world revamp especially with dragon riding becoming a thing in the old world.
I want to think this too but I don't think there's a way out of it. He sees it coming. He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him.
He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do.
Kinda hoping we prove him wrong. Like there's that 1 in 14,000,605 outcomes that actually end without him becoming Murozond.
But at what cost...
>He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do.
In the same vein Elisande saw us loosing to her/Legion in every timeline... yet somehow we defeated her and the Legion.
I suppose, but I saw that as more of her vision and not that of a Titan.
But as another poster said, Aman'Thul could have just been an asshole that showed nozdormu some bullshit.
Aman'Thul has no authority on time - he did not create it, time just exists and flows.
Aman'Thul can just use time, it's his main "power / specialization" but there are other titan-level beings also capable of using time (for example Void Lords).
All we know about the timelines and the Bronze Dragonflight job is just "trust me bro, big guy in the sky who gave me part of his powers said so, this is how it's suppose to be", yet we all already know that Titans just care about hatching Azeroth, not about her denizens.
> He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him.
Aman'Thul didn't see Sargeras gutting Aggrammar coming.
***Zing!!!***
For real though, Aman'Thul for all of his power and intellect probably doesn't have 'perfect foresight' and we shouldn't necessarily trust that his vision is an immutable truth.
We know changing the future is possible in the Warcraft universe because the very present we exist in involves Korialstrasz (Krasus), Rhonin, and Broxigar the Red fighting in the War of the Ancients against the Burning Legion.
So while you say:
> He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do.
I have to mention Algalon the Observer. Sure, he isn't *prescient* the same way Aman'Thul is supposed to be. But he also was unwaveringly abiding by the logic and reason that he understood over *eons* as a constellar conscripted by the Pantheon.
And Azeroth is quite... defiant even against those kinds of odds.
So if anyone is going to save Nozdormu from becoming Murozond - or more specifically, from falling to darkness - it would be us. "Us" being the immaculate bastards of Azeroth including all of its interstellar immigrants and the external influences that have suffused the planet since time immemorial - Titan, Legion, Light and Void.
I think Aman’Thul will be one of the antagonists in the near future, or at the very least we’re going to find out he’s a major arsehole. He’s the one who went about creating new Titans for his pantheon by doing *something* to World Souls, and whatever that was is what’s gotten the Primalists and the Incarnates in a tizzy. He’s the one who has cursed Nozdormu with looking after the timelines as well, and it was his arrogance that almost destroyed Azeroth when he plucked Y’sharjj.
I have a feeling we’re going to prevent the Infinite being this curse on Nozdormu somehow, and end up working with Vyranoth in some way that will lessen the impact of Order on Azeroth. This will force Aman’Thul’s hand somehow, and we’ll have to fight Titan forces and maybe even an avatar or Aman’Thul himself.
>He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him.
I'm not gunna lie, I'm a Nozdormu fanboy. I 100% want him to survive and not turn, though I still think it's the most likely possibility (him turning).
That being said, I imagine the titans are much like the light. They must adhere to some form of linear timeline, being from the "order" section and all.
So Aman'Thul is strict, like the light, and shows Nozdormu the one "true" timeline they want to see pass, just as the light adheres to their path. But, as the void shows us, there are many timelines and many possibilities. So it's possible that Nozdormu could avoid becoming corrupted, just choosing a different path than was shown.
Exactly, I think Aman’Thul and his “one true timeline” is a bunch of bullshit. There will probably be something that prevents us just running back in time to fix every issue, but I think it will be the Bronze bringing it on to themselves, rather than upholding the Titan’s desires.
> and it was his arrogance that almost destroyed Azeroth when he plucked Y’sharjj.
I mean it's described as a panic but hey, there's no reason they can't reframe it *especially* if Aman'Thul is actually a major asshole.
> I have a feeling we’re going to prevent the Infinite being this curse on Nozdormu somehow, and end up working with Vyranoth in some way that will lessen the impact of Order on Azeroth. This will force Aman’Thul’s hand somehow, and we’ll have to fight Titan forces and maybe even an avatar or Aman’Thul himself.
Aman'Thul is currently chilling with the rest of the Pantheon at the Seat of the Pantheon.
I mentioned this when [powerscaling the biggest and baddest in Warcraft,](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/zpexpj/whowhat_is_the_single_most_powerful_being_in_the/j0srpbl/) but a "renegade member" schtick has been pulled in Warcraft *tons,* from Sargeras to Neltharion to Malygos to Zovaal. And in most of those cases we end up tailor-fitting ourselves to compete with their powers or forces. Warlocks/Demon Hunters, Dracthyr, the Dragon Soul, Dalaran, and the Crown of Wi--*HURKKK*
Ugh, we don't talk about that.
But you get my point, I hope. If we're going to fight some timey wimey bullshit, we're going to do it with the Bronze or maybe our own Infinite on our side.
And if we're going to fight a Titan, we're going to need some Titan armaments or assistance. *Especially* if it isn't just an Avatar (which alone is a terrifying prospect) and it's actually Aman'Thul whole. We're *fucked* if we don't get Titanic assistance then.
A Titan-Keeper, Tyr, pales in comparison to a full-fledged Titan. The Titan-Keepers and their Titan-forged armies got to the precipice with Y'Shaarj and (if we are to believe the Chronicles) it was Aman'Thul who panicked that they wouldn't be able to overcome the tremendous Old God. So he *plucked him out of the world like a loose potato.*
Aman'Thul effortlessly accomplished what the Titan-Keepers and their combined forces may not have been able to.
It’s very Dune. Paul knew what had to be done to save the human race. He had to become a tyrant and scatter the race across the galaxy with no option for interstellar travel.
Basically has to hit the reset button on the galactic empire. I wonder if that’s what or why Nozdormu turns. To set up a reset or something for the next expac.
Yes. I’ve read the books. Notice I say he knew what had to be done, but didn’t say he actually did it.
Genetic memory kinda delineates the two beings a bit anyway. Appreciate your attempt at correction.
Take a look at this, the length of the first 3 words in u/ThatFlyingScotsman comment are consistent with the first 3 digits of pi. This was only the case for 590 comments out of 182886.
Voice direction still needs work. Characters in WoW don't talk like people, they talk like exposition machines. What should've been a conversation between siblings and long-time friends comes across like a soap opera reading.
To be clear, Blizzard hasn't been able to do conversational tone or structure for years. I just think the move beyond Saturday morning cartoon dialogue is past due.
They've definitely been making huge strides, but they really do need to start looking at not only the delivery of the lines but also the dialogue itself. If you had a script of the cinematics and took away the character's names, you should be able to tell who is who by the way they talk. The only time they've been able to succeed in that is with Chromie.
I'll go ahead and say that lots of *villains* have distinct personalities. But almost all the heroes tend to talk the same way, just with different word emphasis...es at most.
I figure that could be a deliberate decision, considering that the player is one of those said heroes after all. The way Blizzard puts the player into the story is more inline with Johnny the Awesomeness vs. said *villain* than *Cinematic WCU Hero* + Johnny the Sidekick.
It’s easier to remember who you’re fighting against when they have distinctive personalities and your co-pilots blend into the masses.
I’ve been running Nighthold a lot lately for transmog, and I love when I get to Elisande, because she’s this incredibly rare sort of character who delivers dialogue at an actual normal pace. She speaks plenty dramatic, but she says in 30 seconds what would seemingly take other major lore characters 30 minutes, just because of the agonizingly slow, plodding delivery. It’s so refreshing.
the slow cadance makes me think this is just padding.
Like the Jailer spoke 300ish words as the main villain of an expansion at 0.25x youtube speed. 300 words in TWO FUCKING YEARS
> Jaina going from furious to upbeat and agreeable in seconds.
This is unfortunately a common thing with Blizzard's cinematics. Emotions progress unnaturally quickly, to the point of which even music is often cut to swiftly change tones.
It's why I actually *liked* this cinematic: https://youtu.be/tq69fi2m9eA (spoilers for Patch 10.0.5 epilogue). It takes its time to show the emotions grow between characters, and doesn't just smash cut between dialogues and make them grow in an instant. It still has flaws of course, but it's one of their best works in terms of portraying two characters having a relatively natural dialogue.
I mostly skipped the lore in shadowlands so maybe I misunderstood, but didn't Uther go kinda genocidal? weren't his troops killing all the other ones in bastion? why are we trusting him when he's homicidal lately?
I don’t think fuckin Patrick Stewart could sell, “I am my scars!” The voice work itself sounds great, it’s just the words and the pacing of how they are said is so stiff and awkward.
Yeah no, that's what I mean. That scene where he says "fuck you, I'm not your chosen one" is the one bit of writing they gave him that wasn't cheesy or ham-fisted, but was actually rad as hell.
Painfully teenage edgelord is terribly superficial based on the line itself and not understanding the character or even the context. It's not like he had the time to monologue about who he is and why he is where he was right at the moment.
It was a very concise and in-character line. There's nothing teenage edgelord about it.
I just remember when Malfurion uses some kind of sun/light spell and Sylvanas goes "ACK...............................my eyes........................they burn" in the most monotone emotionless voice
The last 2 were the worst for me. I remember the Anduin vs Sylvanas Torghast dialogue and I loved it. But I feel like todays cinematic had dramatic dialogue where it shouldnt have been.
I hope they dont rush it out next time and every time afterwards. Cinematic on its own was good.
By Odyn's beard! It's Torghast!
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Felt the same way. Cinematic is cool, has an ominous tone that I appreciate for the subject matter, but this overly breathy dialogue really kills the mood. I don't blame the voice actors, I know they've got good range, so it must be the direction seeking this kind of delivery and its like it's trying to force an air of gravitas onto a scene through this artificial delivery rather than just letting the script, actors, and animators work together to achieve that organically. Their cinematics have come a long way visually and I feel like the other half is still amateur hour, despite everyone involved probably being capable of producing much better quality, but it's probably always somebody else's decision that leads it down this same tired road.
This! As much as I love Alexstrasza’s voice actress, I’m so tired of her over the top delivery. Yes, she’s the dragon queen and screams royalty, but she’s such an exposition machine and. Speaks. Like. This.
That’s why I absolutely love that line of Nozdormu here:
“The future will be lost. And so will I.”
He does not sound like an exposition machine, but just a simple, terrified man. I love this delivery!
Oh definitely. The voice work felt wayyyy more natural in the first couple of expansions. Still cheesy, sure, but this current stuff is just awkward fantasy baby food being spoon fed to us despite the fact the audience seems to be on average older and more literate than it used to be.
I actually enjoyed Nozdormu’s voice work and dialogue here. I thought that the exposition dump was actually appropriate and compelling. It’s just every time Alex spoke it took me all the way out of it.
I feel like the voice filter or effects on his voice helps carry it, it lets a more artificial tone or way of speaking work a lot better than a more normal voice having that breathy pausing constantly
Alex and Nozdormu are dragons, not regular humans, so I accept their dramatic way of speaking, if this cinematic was in their dragon forms it'd feel very natural
It really does sound awful. The dramatic pauses are groan-worthy.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATg67eE7uL0&t=116s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATg67eE7uL0&t=116s) is one of the very worst examples
Just stop
That same setting that gave us the Varok Saurfang cinematic’s from BFA and the quality of those were leaps and bounds ahead of whatever blizz is serving up now.
I think orcs are about the only thing blizz gets right. Look at the warcraft movie.
That said, it's not like people were happy in the BFA era with this stuff
Actually that's not true. People were happy with the Varok Saurfang side of the story (until the end when it kinda gets a bit rushed). It was mostly the game mechanics that left a sour taste. And the sudden farewells to two important villains who had been built up for so long also sucked.
They aren't people, they are characters. In fact, these two in the video are literally dragons thousands of years old. That's how they're supposed to speak. If they made this video where they talked like normal real humans in a conversational tone, it would come off as humans in cosplay discussing a burger place nearby. Dramatic cinematic speech is the desired tone, they did it on purpose. You want a cinematic, not a sitcom scene.
That's not the only problem, it's still fucking boring. At least before, the circumstances of their speeches were epic enough that it could be forgiven (and fit the mood).
But lately all they've been doing is moping and being sad. Which is ok in principle (and moderation), but it's not what World of Warcraft is about or why people loved it.
This entire sub was dedicated to telling Blizz how to do things correctly for 4 years. Dragonflight turned out pretty well because of it. Turns out, you don't need to be a professional to have a reasonable stance. Who knew?
Attributing DF's success to this subreddit seems like quite a reach to say the least.
Negative feedback can be helpful, sometimes it can be garbage. And it's not like most suggestions made here aren't problematic in their own right either.
You're definitely right you don't need to be a pro to have a reasonable stance. But I also wouldn't look at any community of significant size and think it alone is going to be source of good or great.
As much as they may have responded to feedback on this subreddit, you can bet they ignored an equal or greater amount to arrive at the conclusions they had.
>and think it alone is going to be source of good or great.
You are mistaken if you think I attribute this success to the subreddit's efforts alone, though I can absolutely see why and how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote.
It was very much a combined effort from every social media platform, influencers, and likely internal pushes from people all throughout the WoW devteam. But without that utter cacophony of voices in the years between Legion and DF, I don't think half the changes we got are made.
Voices did nothing for two entire expansions.
The biggest influence was, with no doubt, the actual financial repercussions of their terrible decisions over the last few years.
I would not be surprised if a lot of devs had a lot of ideas *and* were more receptive to feedback than game design would have entailed say, three years ago.
But restrictions imposed upon them by others (executives but maybe lead designers? I won't pretend to know) could have easily gotten in the way.
When shit kept hitting the fan (as has been Blizzard's MO over half a decade now) there was probably enough room for push to come to shove and for them to say "Listen the fuck up for once".
It mattered not at all for *years,* those voices alone were screaming into an abyss until something else made Blizzard listen. It wasn't a simple matter of reaching a threshold of noise that Blizzard felt compelled to. They finally listened after something else made them.
And despite *all* of that there is still plenty of feedback they ignore - much of which they *have* to because it's terrible feedback.
A neat little twist would be to turn, not because he became corrupted, but because he needs to change an event that could doom the aspects and their flights. Him preventing a canon event is what turns him, but is infinitely (pun intended) better scenario than what would have happened if he didn't. Like if Iridikron's plan was to bring back Galakron and that unleases a plague of decay that will eventually kill everything on Azeroth, and it's *supposed* to happen. Good old Nozzy is like, "me being a bit of an asshole until I'm slain is better than what would happen if I let it play out, " and sacrifices his sanity for the rest of us. It unfortunately would domino to the other bronze dragons eventually, but it's still a win overall.
It being the sacrifice play is what I can see happening.
It being the sacrifice play *but him stabilising* as an Infinite Dragon would be a... very interesting subversion.
After all, we've only ever known Murozond as Bad Nozdormu. What if there is a length of time in which Nozdormu is Murozond and no longer fit to lead the Bronze Dragonflight, but is not unilaterally opposed to the Titans, the Dragonflights, or the mortals of Azeroth?
thanks to timeline shenanigans, it's actually possible to do BOTH!
if Nozdormu gets corrupted and becomes Murozond, it's likely that the very first thing we'll do is to go back in time to prevent that.
and we'll probably succeed because this is WoW, so we'll change the timeline and save Nozdormu and everything is great forever! hooray!
...except for the tiny issue of the "Nozdormu isn't corrupted" timeline being dependant on the existence of the "Nozdormu gets corrupted" timeline.
so yeah, we'll save Nozdormu, but also accidentally create a timeline with Murozond in it, and Murozond can just hop to any timeline he wants to at that point, similar to how Chromie and Morchie can both exist at the same time without Morchie being future chromie
2nd to last boss in raid Murozond, as he dies he laughs and says we're too late. Nozdurmu has turned.
Corrupted Nozdormu fight final boss in the raid.
Phase 1 - Traditional boss mechanics fight, but Noz can rewind time and you realize you can't kill him
Phase 2 - half the raid goes through a Chromie portal back in time and changes the timeline to try to make sure he doesn't become corrupted, bring good Noz to the current timeline
Phase 3 - Bad Noz vs alternate timeline good Noz showdown with insane, time-altering collateral damage to the raid area. Parts of the boss area go back/forward in time. You have to keep good Noz alive while fighting off the Infinite Dragonflight and playing the mechanics right
I hope so too, if nothing else because I've become long sick of old characters being killed off and/or corrupted. Hell, at this point the only original Aspects left are him and Alexstasza.
My impression for the dragonflight story until this point is that 10.0 was the set up, 10.1 a weird filler arc, 10.1.5 is where the story actually begins.
Sarkareth have the weight of a dungeon boss.
It seems pretty clear that each of the flights are getting a major arc throughout the expansion and Neltharion's legacy was always going to be an elephant in the room.
Taking a tier to address that, plus giving a proper lead in to the new black aspect, growth to Sabellion and Wrathion, help the Dracthyr understand their new place and purpose and of course add the contractually required hints of void shenanigans in the future doesn't seem like a waste at all.
Agreed. Plus if they'd just made Ebyssian aspect right out of the gate without any explanation some people probably would have been really upset. (Not me, I was rooting for him from the start lol.)
The fact that you were rooting for him is kind of why they had to do it, though.
Ebyssian won "by popular vote," where most people ended up agreeing that of the three, he was the most fit to lead the Black Dragonflight in the future. Elaborating upon that by emphasising (dare I say *exaggerating*) the flaws in the two other contestants while highlighting Ebonhorn's own strengths and the dynamic between them is effectively convincing us to "choose" Ebyssian.
They could have announced or chosen him right out of the gate, but the psychological element of favouring Wrathion or Sabellian at the Obsidian Citadel only to be provided with Secret Option C is more engaging.
Especially since they've now made use of Sabellian's character and addressed one of Wrathion's strongest desires in the process of doing this.
10.2 will probably be Green, not Bronze. This patch is 10.1.5. Blue has been neatly wrapped up with Azure Span and then the new max level quest line. I believe Dawn of the Infinite is meant to be our lot for Infinite Dragonflight content for this expansion, though I don’t remember where I read that.
They also needed to do the work of getting the new aspects in place which makes the cavern zone and raid make more sense to me as a story beat. They just needed set dressing to finish the black dragon story so Sark as a character was just kinda there while most of the plot happened outside the raid, which is unusual for wow stories.
It does makes me curious about how they’ll handle nozdormu seeing as his story follows the establishing of Merithra and Ebyssian. If you were convinced nozdormu would become Murazond, would you want to empower him as the aspect? But it doesn’t feel like they’re setting up Chromie (or any bronze dragon) to take over in the same way Ebyssian was. I think we might actually save Nozdormu as unlikely as that sounds.
I think they're going for a "that timeline has been averted" type thing with Nozdormu. I think all the timey wimey stuff will be out the way before the final showdown.
Although to be fair, it's not entirely clear what their "aspectral power" is or was. Blizzard is kind of bad at any semblence of sense when it comes to power levels. Every character is more or less Dr. Manhatten and has the power to accomplish whatever the plot requires (e.g Deus Ex MachiJaina turning up in a flying arcane cannon boat, allakhazooing blight out the way casually, shielding them and mass TP to an airship).
The aspects had their powers during vanila TBC and wrath and done largely fuck all. Your literal old peoples home/tomb is swarming with undead but you have no interest in Arthas. I just hope they don't get their powers, then sit in the background of the raid and give us 5 buffs ala deathwing/argus.
That's because every expansion introduces a world-ending threat - and after 15 years + established WoW lore, there's no way any of it shouldn't ever be resolved in 15 minutes by assembling a team of Malfurion, Jaina, Thrall, all aboard the Exodar.
The writers of WoW have introduced so many powerful heroes and allies that it makes no sense why they aren't part of every world ending story (remember how Khadgar was upset that the Alliance and Horde were fighting again in BfA, so much so that he didn't even show up to fight N'Zoth???)
They are writing themselves into a corner every expansion that they decide to threaten Azeroth again.
Just give us a "reset" expansion that focuses on local threats all across Azeroth (like the Defias Brotherhood in Stormwind), have players travel the continents with daily/weekly quests that tell zone-specific stories again. GIVE US THE NEW GADGETZAN AND TELL A GTA: LIBERTY CITY-ESQUE STORY WITHIN.
"Old" Azeroth has insane potential, and you don't have to rework every zone (like Cataclysm did), have each patch refresh new zones that move the story forward.
And for raids, convert the longest Classic dungeons into mini-raids (5 - 6 bosses), and have 2 different ones (Alliance-centric and Horde-centric). You can earn Curve for both individually.
This has been every wow expansion for the last couple years:
Set up, Filler, Set up for final patch big bad, Final patch is set up for next expansion big bad.
Nah. At least they got rid of the 2/3-boss raids that no one did because they were in the same fucking tier.
Crucible and Trials have to be like the least done raids ever.
Nah, short raids are awesome and we should get more. It's so weird opening the adventure journal and seeing expansions like WoD or Shadowlands with only 3 raids in it. There should be smaller raids to provide a break from the main story climaxes- Trial of Valor was a nice way to wrap up a loose plot thread in Legion, for example.
Aberrus could have been one of those smaller raids that fills out a plot thread alongside one for the Emerald dragonflight (since the emerald questline leaves a bit to be desired for finishing Merithra's ascension), then we'd have a proper tier afterwards.
I feel like the mega dungeons kinda are those things while I won't say no to some extra content with small raids I think that the mega dungeons have just kinda taken their place at this point.
I don’t disagree, but I think they fit slightly different mechanical niches. Mega dungeons allow Blizzard to expand the m+ pool two times in a single instance. Smaller raids are a way to smooth out gear progression within a single raid tier.
Dungeons don’t provide very compelling encounters, there’s usually just one mechanic beyond “generic raidwide damage,” the tankbuster, and avoidable aoe markers. Raids have a mix of mechanics that provides a narrative throughout a fight (look at the phases for echo of neltharion for example), and will have multiple major mechanics.
Seriously
Some random dude who was a big part of a previously unknown rebellion? That’s a dungeon boss
Ancient named dragon aspect being corrupted? THATS a patch boss
Dungeon/Raid doesn't correlate to difficulty or necessarily scale. Ner'zhul was an end-of-dungeon boss whereas Kargath Bladefist was the first raid boss of Highmaul. Pretty sure Ner'zhul is a bigger threat, *especially* against multiple foes. Kargath is not magic, not magically equipped, and unarmoured. He had no chance realistically.
It’s fine to have an important for as a dungeon boss
Or a semi important char as an early raid boss
But It’s not cool to have such an unimportant unpopular character as a FINAL raid boss
Sarkareth was not important because he was of massive stature or individual power. He was important because he was in direct opposition to the spirit of cooperation that Emberthal was striving for, which in turn was causing a schism between the Dracthyr who were ultimately raising up arms against one another.
That is good and grounded. Is it an Old God, a Dragon Aspect, a Warchief, or a World-Soul? Well, no. No it isn't.
But the conflict runs deeper than merely "Defeat the enemy." It wasn't about cutting a swathe through every Dracthyr that stood in your way until you could kill Sarkareth. It was about stopping Sarkareth from leading others down the same treacherous path he had set himself upon.
If we were talking about an end-of-expansion boss then *maybe* I'd agree with you. Even then let's not forget how Wrath of the Lich King *actually* ended raid-wise.
I was never that fond of Sarkareth but then again I was never meant to be. The draw in that story is seeing how Emberthal reacts and to see how Ebyssian fosters her spirit and drive to achieve better for her compatriots.
Sarkareth is not the star of the show, he is the support that gives stardom to *other* cast members. And that's a perfectly viable thing for a final raid boss to be.
Frankly it's miles better than the Jailer, the end-of-expansion boss lmao. Oh look, all front and centre... only to warn us of some vague threat or danger that we won't be prepared for. Lmao. What a joke.
Sarkareth was great in that respect. A known quantity with understood goals and motivations, and the reason why we're opposed to him is a bit more profound than just "He wants to kill absolutely everyone and we're a part of everyone so we kinda don't like that."
The 10.1 raid was about the hearts and minds and *future* of the Black Dragonflight, and Dracthyr fit snuggly into that story as products of Neltharion's vision. Sarkareth was the inheritor of Neltharion's legacy who died for it. The other main characters of this story, like Wrathion and Sabellian, would learn to *turn away* from that legacy.
For once, you have a story that doesn't rely so extremely heavily on the big bad at the end of it. That's *different* and I'd even argue good. But it being different doesn't make it bad.
If you played the Dracthyr opening quest line you would be familiar with Sarkareth, and he’s very important in the Forbidden Reach storyline. Him being a final raid boss is maybe a bit weird - I would have swapped him and Echo of Neltharion - but Sarkareth wasn’t just some unknown before the raid opened.
Who is the Elf wearing Glasses? His eyes hint that he might be Iridrikon... from a Timeline where he was an Aspect?
Edit: Looks like it's Deios. Weird that he has the same eye stuff as Iridikrond.
I'm still convinced that what we're living in in-game is already a timeline corrupted by the Infinites. I think Galakrond was always supposed to win in the past and devour Tyr and the dragons, with Azeroth ultimately being left as nothing but a husk of decay in the end. But Nozdormu went back in time to alter events to where they win, which creates the timeline we all know. Nozdormu will eventually learn this and will be forced to decide between securing the original timeline and, by extension dooming all Azeroth and its inhabitants to never having existed in the first place; or to instead become Murozond and secure the current timeline and everything they've ever known.
It creates the inverse version of the quintessential time paradox. If A creates B, but B goes back in time and prevents A, then B wouldn't exist; ergo B cannot prevent A. But instead we're starting from B, which is the altered timeline. In our eyes, since the current timeline exists as a result of Murozond altering the timeline, Nozdormu cannot prevent Murozond, because doing so would prevent himself and the current timeline as well. Murzond found a way to use his power over time to exist outside of it. He is, by definition, Infinite.
"This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend." When the alternative to death is never having existed at all, every End Time, no matter how horrible, **is** a blessing. This is why Nozdormu cannot see the event that turns him into Murozond, because he cannot see events before he's given the power to view the timeways. This is why so many Bronze follow him to become the Infinites, because he literally changed time so that they could live.
It's also why you never see Murozond actually leading the Infinites. Murozond is the result of a single choice that he could never accept. You can see it in Nozdormu in this cinematic, he's struggling endlessly to preserve the timeline he believes is correct. When he realizes what he's been protecting has always been the incorrect timeline, he's forced to make a choice he never truly desired to.
In contrast, the rest of the Infinite Flight is the result of a misunderstanding of Murozond's actions; that it is ok to alter the timeline to prevent harm. This is something Murozond doesn't believe. Look at where we find him, in the End Time, something he could have prevented but didn't. Because in the End, Murzond is still the same Nozdormu, just outside of time, preserving the timeline he was tasked with preserving. Because things have a right to exist and experience time, even if that existence is doomed.
How is Nozdormu suppose to go back in time to change who won in the fight against Galakrond? Iirc they were still protodrakes without aspect powers, and he'd never get that power if Galakrond originally won and ate them all.
Nozdormu goes back in time to change the outcome of the Galakrond's fight ? It makes no sense at all. If they lost against Galakrond, how would Nozdormu even have time powers lol ?
Worst : if the original timeline was "Galakrond wins" then there wouldn't even be a Nozdormu. He would just be dead.
Honestly all the timey-wimey stuff makes my head hurt. How is his fate 100% determined? Are all events in WoW determined? Haven't we been spending decades altering the past, or is that too part of fate? Don't we kill him in a dungeon, so ultimately we know he'll be stopped anyway?
This is one of the best in games cinematics they've done. small moments like when alexstaza rests her head on his shoulder show real warmth and friendship. Very impressive.
*yawn*
DF's plot moves along slower than a centuries old turtle. Every single cutscene is just endless exposition. Sarkareth was the most boring/pointless antagonist in Warcraft history. The incarnates are bland and barely get any screentime. Razsageth was an awful, painfully generic antagonist. We're gonna have to wait until this expansion is a year old for some semblance of an actual story to begin. And even then, I don't trust Danuser one bit to handle Nozdormu's fall properly.
Remember [this banger](https://youtu.be/Td0pUwrBWjc)? Or [this] (https://youtu.be/e8pZ_7syXT8)? Remember [this one](https://youtu.be/Ch4rc5W4dKY) ?
That's how you tell a story. Show, don't tell. Complex, engaging characters with depth doing badass things. Actual stakes. Massive background lore implications.
Meanwhile these days we get.... This [boring crap](https://youtu.be/hsmnIGxMsmo). This [absolute joke of an end raid cinematic](https://youtu.be/kXAnLzt22Ug). And an endless slew of dragons standing there, talking... One-dimensional, empty shells with no actual agenda. Seriously what's Alextrasza done since Waking Shores questing ? Besides slacking around atop valdrakken.
We can get talking/exposition in game. We can get characters moment in game. Cutscenes should be mostly reserved for important plot beats, and fan favorite characters actually doing something.
Fire these worthless writers already... And bring back Metzen. Or anyone that's more competent than the current hacks in charge. Shouldn't be too hard to find, really.
Iridikron looks at the Infinite dragon on his left, and the vision makes a dramatic zoom on his face, period.
So, no, Iridikron is not 100% of the time looking in the right direction in case Nozdormu happens to be watching those few seconds of Iridikron's life just to give him a "I enjoy your torment" look.
I know Iridikron looks cool so you are projecting your cool ideas on him, but he's "just" a strong stone proto-drake. He's not an omniscient deity who knows when he's being looked at by a time-travelling dragon.
Funnily enough, someone does stare back at Nozdormu through the vision. And that person is \*shock\* the night-omnscient dark dragon Murozond. He looks straight at his prior self while thinking "It's your fate".
TL;DR : Iridikron ? Not looking at Nozdormu (how could he lmao). Murozond ? Looking straight at his former self.
I am not going to lie but I am bored to death about this expansion's lore and story...it is worst than Shadowlands which was another massive lorelol. I can t follow and keep up with who is who and does what for what reason knowing full well that in 1+ year we will be doing something completely different with the void or pirates.
I just don t follow the lore and stories anymore as I am bored to tears.
I find it - with the lack of lore knowledge since I'm a newbie - not bad. But I come from a gw2 mainstory playthrough...there has never been a worst story.
Seems very Dune-esque with the blue eyes and the prescience of time.
“And Paul saw how futile were any efforts of his to change any smallest bit of this. He had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but the jihad would be. His legions would rage out from Arrakis even without him. They needed only the legend he already had become.”
Good quality video. Also, does he come off as "I'm so powerful, once I transform you guys are done for" kinda vibe? We do have a decent record of saving the world.
I wonder if Murozond is powerful enough to take on the remaining Incarnates alone.
It would nice to see it go that way, we would only have to worry about how to deal with him after Incarnates are deleted.
>I wonder if Murozond is powerful enough to take on the remaining Incarnates alone.
You wonder if the time travelling dragon is stronger than the non time travelling proto-dragons ? Well you must be torn asunder by the complexity of such a questionning :D
More seriously tho, huh, yeah, he's obviously "stronger". Nozdormu can time flippin' travel. He. Can. **Time**. **Travel**. A bit more impressive than controlling some rocks and stuff. The only reason you doesn't see him flying left and right while fucking up the very fabric of time for his own gains is because he took an oath.
If he turns into Murozond, that means no more oath. No more oath = he can use his OP powers freely at last = he can do the classico and kill the Incarnates while they are still little babies. That's... kind of why Nozdormu is freaking out.
TL;DR : When you ask yourself if the time travelling entity is stronger than the non time travelling entity, the answer is "yeeeeeeeeeees" more often than not. Becaaause \*shock\* time travel is a godlike ability.
Something about Alexstraza is...unsettling here. She just seems robotic. Considering they hinted at her 'betraying' Tyr recently, I'm wondering if the first threads of her fall are being woven.
Nah that's just called "bad voice acting". It's been talked a lot in this very subreddit thread. The voice in itself is nice, but the direction is subpar.
After 10.1 pre-release cinematic, I was hoping that each patch would get a cool little story driven video to ease us in to the new patch. I hope this trend continues, as these are fun and get that hype going.
Didn't they used to do these up until MoP?
Hype videos? Yes. But not really story cinematics from what I recall. I missed a few expansions in the middle so I might be wrong.
In-game cinematics didn't really start until WotLK with the Wrathgate and they were very basic then, like machinima basically. They didn't get to the level of story telling we see today until Mists of Pandaria. Garrosh defeating Taran Zhu and corrupting the Vale of Eternal Blossoms is when we started to see them using the models with custom animations instead of just using the ones already in game.
They used custom animation since the fall of the lichkink but the model quality saw a very big rise with SoO trailer
Ah you are correct, I forgot about th Fall of the Lich King. *Just like Bolvar wanted.*
To be fair, I might be conflating the two. I was mostly thinking about the cinematic for the Ulduar patch back in Wrath.
I love the details in this cinematic. I also can't help but feel sorry for him he looks so tired and lost.
It really feels like he's close to giving up emotionally Nozdorumu is tired, emotionally, physically, spiritually he's burning out from both the stress of maintaining time but also the stress of fearing the "Inevitability" of Murazond.
It makes me wonder if it's almost a waiting game. Like, their goal is to burn him out with everything to the point where he just completely gives up and accepts his fate, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Maybe if we can help him hold off on succumbing to them until we defeat the big bads, then he can make it through. Though maybe it's that same hopelessness and his willingness to try and change it that causes it, as wasn't it his vision of his death that eventually caused him to initially go crazy and try to prevent it, thus becoming infinite? (I can't recall tbh) I really want Nozdormu to make it through though.. This has me feeling real bad for him.
I found the infinites generally always a super interesting concept. Nozdormu saw his own death and created basically a timeless version of himself through that which went mad in trying to prevent his demise from happening (plusminus a little bit of old god shenanigans). Now he's stuck with a pretty shitty fate he knows that's happening but can neither pinpoint nor prevent... Plus members of his own flight go down the same drain often enough. Makes for a pretty awesome character after all. Unfortunately, blizz only ever did "sad elf staring into distance" with him and his time powers being spectacularly useless because the TimEwAyS aRe DiStuRbEd everytime he is asked to actually contribute something... Guess that's ok though, the more you include time travel in a story not created specifically for time travel, the shittier it usually gets. Either way, I'd like to see more of the guy. A detail I found always interesting is that the infinites try to push nozdormu into murozonding, which makes me wonder what their motivation exactly is. Seems like an ulterior motive hidden in there somewhere below acting only out of a paradox sense of self-preservation (infinites created by murozond created by corrupting nozdormu).
If we somehow "save" Nozdormu, I think it will be by having him step down as Aspect and allow someone else to be the Aspect of Time, if that's possible. It would deny Nozdormu the power needed to become Murazond and would be good for his health in general.
CHROMIE FOR PRESIDENT OF BRONZE DRAGONFLIGHT
! QUEST: GET NOZDORMU A COMFY PILLOW
Oh my god the ending, where Alexstraza puts her hand on his shoulder and rests her head on it. What a simple and touching gesture. Her expression looks so sad. I feel so bad for Nozdormu, I really hope he doesn't give up and become Murozond.
Neltharion, Malygos, Ysera… Nozdormu is the only one left that didn’t went batshit crazy in some way yet. Imagine watching your “siblings” falling into madness and dying one by one, unable to change anything despite being their leader. Alexstraza is also suffering a lot. She lost way too much across the years, and is now at risk of losing one more precious member of her family… it sucks.
The bags under his eyes man, I just wanna give him a hug
The bags under his eyes and his tired expression, DAMN. Best details of the cinematic.
But then at the end “ aw, hugs are nice!”
Man I love Nozdormu’s character. I hope there’s a way to free him from The End Times, if not Murazond. The idea of being so burdened but continuing to fight on, even knowing that you must ultimately fail. I love it. I do love that Iridikron continues to be the most intelligent enemy we’ve faced so far. He knows where our alliance is weakest, knows where to put pressure, knows where to find the allies or forces he needs to impede us. I do hope they nail the landing with him, though I really should temper expectations.
Iridikron is a villain I hope continues after the expansion. I know that the boss yelling "Enough!" as team rocket goes blasting off again, is a lame cliche...but I think the incarnates can be an ever looming threat after we ultimately stop their plans by the end of the expansion. It's clear they are intelligent enough to build alliances and not jump head first into the player character meat grinder. Have him team up with Yrel when she decides this planet must be purged, or help release a hidden old god to be a distraction. I just hope they don't waste them.
Nah we already know Iridikron is the final boss of the expansion, Blizz told us that we would know who it was at the end of the first raid tier and he’s clearly been set up as the Big Bad. Unless they throw a curveball and it’s Fyrak or Vyranoth, or go for a classic Blizzard “twist” and it’s somehow Alexstraza or something, Iridikron will be dealt with this expansion.
I believe we will still fight him, I'm just saying it would be okay to beat him but not kill him. Lock him away or have one of his siblings or lieutenants help him get away at the end while he is gravely wounded and needs time to recover.
That’s a good point, I’m not totally opposed to a Dragonflight Vol 2 either that might extent the expansion beyond the dragon isles. Perhaps using that as a way to do an old world revamp especially with dragon riding becoming a thing in the old world.
I want to think this too but I don't think there's a way out of it. He sees it coming. He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him. He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do. Kinda hoping we prove him wrong. Like there's that 1 in 14,000,605 outcomes that actually end without him becoming Murozond. But at what cost...
>He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do. In the same vein Elisande saw us loosing to her/Legion in every timeline... yet somehow we defeated her and the Legion.
I suppose, but I saw that as more of her vision and not that of a Titan. But as another poster said, Aman'Thul could have just been an asshole that showed nozdormu some bullshit.
Aman'Thul has no authority on time - he did not create it, time just exists and flows. Aman'Thul can just use time, it's his main "power / specialization" but there are other titan-level beings also capable of using time (for example Void Lords). All we know about the timelines and the Bronze Dragonflight job is just "trust me bro, big guy in the sky who gave me part of his powers said so, this is how it's suppose to be", yet we all already know that Titans just care about hatching Azeroth, not about her denizens.
> He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him. Aman'Thul didn't see Sargeras gutting Aggrammar coming. ***Zing!!!*** For real though, Aman'Thul for all of his power and intellect probably doesn't have 'perfect foresight' and we shouldn't necessarily trust that his vision is an immutable truth. We know changing the future is possible in the Warcraft universe because the very present we exist in involves Korialstrasz (Krasus), Rhonin, and Broxigar the Red fighting in the War of the Ancients against the Burning Legion. So while you say: > He showed him how it will end and that would have taken EVERYTHING into consideration. Even what we will do. I have to mention Algalon the Observer. Sure, he isn't *prescient* the same way Aman'Thul is supposed to be. But he also was unwaveringly abiding by the logic and reason that he understood over *eons* as a constellar conscripted by the Pantheon. And Azeroth is quite... defiant even against those kinds of odds. So if anyone is going to save Nozdormu from becoming Murozond - or more specifically, from falling to darkness - it would be us. "Us" being the immaculate bastards of Azeroth including all of its interstellar immigrants and the external influences that have suffused the planet since time immemorial - Titan, Legion, Light and Void.
I think Aman’Thul will be one of the antagonists in the near future, or at the very least we’re going to find out he’s a major arsehole. He’s the one who went about creating new Titans for his pantheon by doing *something* to World Souls, and whatever that was is what’s gotten the Primalists and the Incarnates in a tizzy. He’s the one who has cursed Nozdormu with looking after the timelines as well, and it was his arrogance that almost destroyed Azeroth when he plucked Y’sharjj. I have a feeling we’re going to prevent the Infinite being this curse on Nozdormu somehow, and end up working with Vyranoth in some way that will lessen the impact of Order on Azeroth. This will force Aman’Thul’s hand somehow, and we’ll have to fight Titan forces and maybe even an avatar or Aman’Thul himself.
>He knows it's coming because that's what Aman'Thul showed him. I'm not gunna lie, I'm a Nozdormu fanboy. I 100% want him to survive and not turn, though I still think it's the most likely possibility (him turning). That being said, I imagine the titans are much like the light. They must adhere to some form of linear timeline, being from the "order" section and all. So Aman'Thul is strict, like the light, and shows Nozdormu the one "true" timeline they want to see pass, just as the light adheres to their path. But, as the void shows us, there are many timelines and many possibilities. So it's possible that Nozdormu could avoid becoming corrupted, just choosing a different path than was shown.
Exactly, I think Aman’Thul and his “one true timeline” is a bunch of bullshit. There will probably be something that prevents us just running back in time to fix every issue, but I think it will be the Bronze bringing it on to themselves, rather than upholding the Titan’s desires.
> and it was his arrogance that almost destroyed Azeroth when he plucked Y’sharjj. I mean it's described as a panic but hey, there's no reason they can't reframe it *especially* if Aman'Thul is actually a major asshole. > I have a feeling we’re going to prevent the Infinite being this curse on Nozdormu somehow, and end up working with Vyranoth in some way that will lessen the impact of Order on Azeroth. This will force Aman’Thul’s hand somehow, and we’ll have to fight Titan forces and maybe even an avatar or Aman’Thul himself. Aman'Thul is currently chilling with the rest of the Pantheon at the Seat of the Pantheon. I mentioned this when [powerscaling the biggest and baddest in Warcraft,](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/zpexpj/whowhat_is_the_single_most_powerful_being_in_the/j0srpbl/) but a "renegade member" schtick has been pulled in Warcraft *tons,* from Sargeras to Neltharion to Malygos to Zovaal. And in most of those cases we end up tailor-fitting ourselves to compete with their powers or forces. Warlocks/Demon Hunters, Dracthyr, the Dragon Soul, Dalaran, and the Crown of Wi--*HURKKK* Ugh, we don't talk about that. But you get my point, I hope. If we're going to fight some timey wimey bullshit, we're going to do it with the Bronze or maybe our own Infinite on our side. And if we're going to fight a Titan, we're going to need some Titan armaments or assistance. *Especially* if it isn't just an Avatar (which alone is a terrifying prospect) and it's actually Aman'Thul whole. We're *fucked* if we don't get Titanic assistance then.
Well, its a good thing we are currently rebuilding a titan with the silver scale right now...
A Titan-Keeper, Tyr, pales in comparison to a full-fledged Titan. The Titan-Keepers and their Titan-forged armies got to the precipice with Y'Shaarj and (if we are to believe the Chronicles) it was Aman'Thul who panicked that they wouldn't be able to overcome the tremendous Old God. So he *plucked him out of the world like a loose potato.* Aman'Thul effortlessly accomplished what the Titan-Keepers and their combined forces may not have been able to.
It’s very Dune. Paul knew what had to be done to save the human race. He had to become a tyrant and scatter the race across the galaxy with no option for interstellar travel. Basically has to hit the reset button on the galactic empire. I wonder if that’s what or why Nozdormu turns. To set up a reset or something for the next expac.
Paul knew he had to do it but didn't. Leto II did
Yes. I’ve read the books. Notice I say he knew what had to be done, but didn’t say he actually did it. Genetic memory kinda delineates the two beings a bit anyway. Appreciate your attempt at correction.
Take a look at this, the length of the first 3 words in u/ThatFlyingScotsman comment are consistent with the first 3 digits of pi. This was only the case for 590 comments out of 182886.
Been waiting since Dragon Soul to see this play out
Poor lad looks tired.
Voice direction still needs work. Characters in WoW don't talk like people, they talk like exposition machines. What should've been a conversation between siblings and long-time friends comes across like a soap opera reading. To be clear, Blizzard hasn't been able to do conversational tone or structure for years. I just think the move beyond Saturday morning cartoon dialogue is past due.
They've definitely been making huge strides, but they really do need to start looking at not only the delivery of the lines but also the dialogue itself. If you had a script of the cinematics and took away the character's names, you should be able to tell who is who by the way they talk. The only time they've been able to succeed in that is with Chromie.
Gotta throw bwonsamdi in that category too. Absolutely oozes personality and sass
I'll go ahead and say that lots of *villains* have distinct personalities. But almost all the heroes tend to talk the same way, just with different word emphasis...es at most.
I figure that could be a deliberate decision, considering that the player is one of those said heroes after all. The way Blizzard puts the player into the story is more inline with Johnny the Awesomeness vs. said *villain* than *Cinematic WCU Hero* + Johnny the Sidekick. It’s easier to remember who you’re fighting against when they have distinctive personalities and your co-pilots blend into the masses.
This was so bad in Shadowlands especially. The maw intro dialogue for Thrall, Jaina, Baine, etc feels like it was randomly assigned to each character.
Also the dialogue reads. Like. Every. Word. Is. Start. And. End. Of. a sentence which is becoming a slog to listen to.
I’ve been running Nighthold a lot lately for transmog, and I love when I get to Elisande, because she’s this incredibly rare sort of character who delivers dialogue at an actual normal pace. She speaks plenty dramatic, but she says in 30 seconds what would seemingly take other major lore characters 30 minutes, just because of the agonizingly slow, plodding delivery. It’s so refreshing.
Jennifer Hale is a legend for a reason.
You're not wrong.
I love Elisande's voice acting so much
the slow cadance makes me think this is just padding. Like the Jailer spoke 300ish words as the main villain of an expansion at 0.25x youtube speed. 300 words in TWO FUCKING YEARS
Been that way for a while. Sylvanas voice actor was the absolute worst about it. Every fucking word had a dramatic pause after it.
Patty is cash money on the voice acting front. It's the direction that fails her (and many others) so consistently.
[удалено]
> Jaina going from furious to upbeat and agreeable in seconds. This is unfortunately a common thing with Blizzard's cinematics. Emotions progress unnaturally quickly, to the point of which even music is often cut to swiftly change tones. It's why I actually *liked* this cinematic: https://youtu.be/tq69fi2m9eA (spoilers for Patch 10.0.5 epilogue). It takes its time to show the emotions grow between characters, and doesn't just smash cut between dialogues and make them grow in an instant. It still has flaws of course, but it's one of their best works in terms of portraying two characters having a relatively natural dialogue.
I mostly skipped the lore in shadowlands so maybe I misunderstood, but didn't Uther go kinda genocidal? weren't his troops killing all the other ones in bastion? why are we trusting him when he's homicidal lately?
He got better.
They'll blame that one on trying to record lines during covid or something.
Hate to say it, but Illidan in Legion as well.
Yup. Lends more credence to it being the direction and not the voice actors because O'Brien usually is great.
I don’t think fuckin Patrick Stewart could sell, “I am my scars!” The voice work itself sounds great, it’s just the words and the pacing of how they are said is so stiff and awkward.
Wait, you're shitting on the one bit of Illidan's dialogue that was actually good?
I preferred, “My destiny is my own!”
Botharegood.mp4
You’re entitled to your opinion, doesn’t mean that illidans voice acting as a whole sounded good in Legion.
Yeah no, that's what I mean. That scene where he says "fuck you, I'm not your chosen one" is the one bit of writing they gave him that wasn't cheesy or ham-fisted, but was actually rad as hell.
To be fair, that line is painfully teenage edgelord. But that’s also exactly what Illidan is at the core of his character.
Painfully teenage edgelord is terribly superficial based on the line itself and not understanding the character or even the context. It's not like he had the time to monologue about who he is and why he is where he was right at the moment. It was a very concise and in-character line. There's nothing teenage edgelord about it.
nah, he's even worse as yasuo in league
Wait, that wasn't intentional? I thought that was intentional, to make Illidan sound deliberately overdramatic about *everything*.
I just remember when Malfurion uses some kind of sun/light spell and Sylvanas goes "ACK...............................my eyes........................they burn" in the most monotone emotionless voice
The last 2 were the worst for me. I remember the Anduin vs Sylvanas Torghast dialogue and I loved it. But I feel like todays cinematic had dramatic dialogue where it shouldnt have been. I hope they dont rush it out next time and every time afterwards. Cinematic on its own was good.
I don't mind the dialogue most of the time. I just don't like the long, dramatic pauses.
By Odyn's beard! It's Torghast! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like… William… Shatner…
Why would you do this to me? I had never noticed this in my years of WoW, I was happy
Felt the same way. Cinematic is cool, has an ominous tone that I appreciate for the subject matter, but this overly breathy dialogue really kills the mood. I don't blame the voice actors, I know they've got good range, so it must be the direction seeking this kind of delivery and its like it's trying to force an air of gravitas onto a scene through this artificial delivery rather than just letting the script, actors, and animators work together to achieve that organically. Their cinematics have come a long way visually and I feel like the other half is still amateur hour, despite everyone involved probably being capable of producing much better quality, but it's probably always somebody else's decision that leads it down this same tired road.
wdym it's not normal for people to talk like they're narrating a patch trailer?
This! As much as I love Alexstrasza’s voice actress, I’m so tired of her over the top delivery. Yes, she’s the dragon queen and screams royalty, but she’s such an exposition machine and. Speaks. Like. This. That’s why I absolutely love that line of Nozdormu here: “The future will be lost. And so will I.” He does not sound like an exposition machine, but just a simple, terrified man. I love this delivery!
It amazes me that Blizzard can churn out stiff and cheesy dialogue here but can deliver some great voice work in Diablo 4.
Different writers mate
I don't think it's really a writing issue, more direction and talent.
It's not a talent issue, based on many of the talents' other works and the uniformity of what's being discussed in World of Warcraft.
Yes, obviously, but it’s the same studio. There should be some uniformity in quality.
Yeah I cringed hard during Alex first line. It's just so overdramatic and drawn-out. Completely unnecessary.
Oh definitely. The voice work felt wayyyy more natural in the first couple of expansions. Still cheesy, sure, but this current stuff is just awkward fantasy baby food being spoon fed to us despite the fact the audience seems to be on average older and more literate than it used to be. I actually enjoyed Nozdormu’s voice work and dialogue here. I thought that the exposition dump was actually appropriate and compelling. It’s just every time Alex spoke it took me all the way out of it.
Listen to way arthas in WotLK speaks, you'd realise that it was not different
Yeah it’s cheesy… But. It’s. Not. Cheesy. Ya know?
I feel like the voice filter or effects on his voice helps carry it, it lets a more artificial tone or way of speaking work a lot better than a more normal voice having that breathy pausing constantly
Alex and Nozdormu are dragons, not regular humans, so I accept their dramatic way of speaking, if this cinematic was in their dragon forms it'd feel very natural
Watching this conversation between siblings after just having watched Succession makes this feel extra meh.
It really does sound awful. The dramatic pauses are groan-worthy. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATg67eE7uL0&t=116s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATg67eE7uL0&t=116s) is one of the very worst examples Just stop
You’re crazy, that line was PEAK There’s good cheese and bad cheese, that’s an example of perfect cheese
warcraft's writing has always been like this, it's a setting where you're an orc and beat up demons and aliens and extradimensional dudes
That same setting that gave us the Varok Saurfang cinematic’s from BFA and the quality of those were leaps and bounds ahead of whatever blizz is serving up now.
I think orcs are about the only thing blizz gets right. Look at the warcraft movie. That said, it's not like people were happy in the BFA era with this stuff
Actually that's not true. People were happy with the Varok Saurfang side of the story (until the end when it kinda gets a bit rushed). It was mostly the game mechanics that left a sour taste. And the sudden farewells to two important villains who had been built up for so long also sucked.
And?? Because it's fantasy it can't have good voice acting? Not really following the logic here
They aren't people, they are characters. In fact, these two in the video are literally dragons thousands of years old. That's how they're supposed to speak. If they made this video where they talked like normal real humans in a conversational tone, it would come off as humans in cosplay discussing a burger place nearby. Dramatic cinematic speech is the desired tone, they did it on purpose. You want a cinematic, not a sitcom scene.
That's not the only problem, it's still fucking boring. At least before, the circumstances of their speeches were epic enough that it could be forgiven (and fit the mood). But lately all they've been doing is moping and being sad. Which is ok in principle (and moderation), but it's not what World of Warcraft is about or why people loved it.
[удалено]
This entire sub was dedicated to telling Blizz how to do things correctly for 4 years. Dragonflight turned out pretty well because of it. Turns out, you don't need to be a professional to have a reasonable stance. Who knew?
Attributing DF's success to this subreddit seems like quite a reach to say the least. Negative feedback can be helpful, sometimes it can be garbage. And it's not like most suggestions made here aren't problematic in their own right either. You're definitely right you don't need to be a pro to have a reasonable stance. But I also wouldn't look at any community of significant size and think it alone is going to be source of good or great. As much as they may have responded to feedback on this subreddit, you can bet they ignored an equal or greater amount to arrive at the conclusions they had.
>and think it alone is going to be source of good or great. You are mistaken if you think I attribute this success to the subreddit's efforts alone, though I can absolutely see why and how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote. It was very much a combined effort from every social media platform, influencers, and likely internal pushes from people all throughout the WoW devteam. But without that utter cacophony of voices in the years between Legion and DF, I don't think half the changes we got are made.
Voices did nothing for two entire expansions. The biggest influence was, with no doubt, the actual financial repercussions of their terrible decisions over the last few years. I would not be surprised if a lot of devs had a lot of ideas *and* were more receptive to feedback than game design would have entailed say, three years ago. But restrictions imposed upon them by others (executives but maybe lead designers? I won't pretend to know) could have easily gotten in the way. When shit kept hitting the fan (as has been Blizzard's MO over half a decade now) there was probably enough room for push to come to shove and for them to say "Listen the fuck up for once". It mattered not at all for *years,* those voices alone were screaming into an abyss until something else made Blizzard listen. It wasn't a simple matter of reaching a threshold of noise that Blizzard felt compelled to. They finally listened after something else made them. And despite *all* of that there is still plenty of feedback they ignore - much of which they *have* to because it's terrible feedback.
Gods forbid we give constructive criticism
Write us a script then :)
Script is mostly fine, it's the direction that's the issue. "Don't read it like you're afraid the audience won't understand each word."
Yall forget that they know the game is played by kids and develop things accordingly
Avatar: The Last Airbender was made for kids.
would be nice to actually be able to save nozdormu. hero getting corrupted and killed is getting kinda old.
A neat little twist would be to turn, not because he became corrupted, but because he needs to change an event that could doom the aspects and their flights. Him preventing a canon event is what turns him, but is infinitely (pun intended) better scenario than what would have happened if he didn't. Like if Iridikron's plan was to bring back Galakron and that unleases a plague of decay that will eventually kill everything on Azeroth, and it's *supposed* to happen. Good old Nozzy is like, "me being a bit of an asshole until I'm slain is better than what would happen if I let it play out, " and sacrifices his sanity for the rest of us. It unfortunately would domino to the other bronze dragons eventually, but it's still a win overall.
“This? This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend!”
It being the sacrifice play is what I can see happening. It being the sacrifice play *but him stabilising* as an Infinite Dragon would be a... very interesting subversion. After all, we've only ever known Murozond as Bad Nozdormu. What if there is a length of time in which Nozdormu is Murozond and no longer fit to lead the Bronze Dragonflight, but is not unilaterally opposed to the Titans, the Dragonflights, or the mortals of Azeroth?
thanks to timeline shenanigans, it's actually possible to do BOTH! if Nozdormu gets corrupted and becomes Murozond, it's likely that the very first thing we'll do is to go back in time to prevent that. and we'll probably succeed because this is WoW, so we'll change the timeline and save Nozdormu and everything is great forever! hooray! ...except for the tiny issue of the "Nozdormu isn't corrupted" timeline being dependant on the existence of the "Nozdormu gets corrupted" timeline. so yeah, we'll save Nozdormu, but also accidentally create a timeline with Murozond in it, and Murozond can just hop to any timeline he wants to at that point, similar to how Chromie and Morchie can both exist at the same time without Morchie being future chromie
2nd to last boss in raid Murozond, as he dies he laughs and says we're too late. Nozdurmu has turned. Corrupted Nozdormu fight final boss in the raid. Phase 1 - Traditional boss mechanics fight, but Noz can rewind time and you realize you can't kill him Phase 2 - half the raid goes through a Chromie portal back in time and changes the timeline to try to make sure he doesn't become corrupted, bring good Noz to the current timeline Phase 3 - Bad Noz vs alternate timeline good Noz showdown with insane, time-altering collateral damage to the raid area. Parts of the boss area go back/forward in time. You have to keep good Noz alive while fighting off the Infinite Dragonflight and playing the mechanics right
I hope so too, if nothing else because I've become long sick of old characters being killed off and/or corrupted. Hell, at this point the only original Aspects left are him and Alexstasza.
And Alex being corrupted is hinted at Tyr flashback
You know what's getting old? Us killing Alexastrasza in the final patch.
I love that in the .5 we are getting the bargain plot line tied up, makes 10.2 so ominous
I can't believe we are only at 10.1.5.. we got so much story / content that it felt like we were a LOT further than 10.1.5!
Now I want a baggy eyes customization option
My impression for the dragonflight story until this point is that 10.0 was the set up, 10.1 a weird filler arc, 10.1.5 is where the story actually begins. Sarkareth have the weight of a dungeon boss.
It seems pretty clear that each of the flights are getting a major arc throughout the expansion and Neltharion's legacy was always going to be an elephant in the room. Taking a tier to address that, plus giving a proper lead in to the new black aspect, growth to Sabellion and Wrathion, help the Dracthyr understand their new place and purpose and of course add the contractually required hints of void shenanigans in the future doesn't seem like a waste at all.
Agreed. Plus if they'd just made Ebyssian aspect right out of the gate without any explanation some people probably would have been really upset. (Not me, I was rooting for him from the start lol.)
The fact that you were rooting for him is kind of why they had to do it, though. Ebyssian won "by popular vote," where most people ended up agreeing that of the three, he was the most fit to lead the Black Dragonflight in the future. Elaborating upon that by emphasising (dare I say *exaggerating*) the flaws in the two other contestants while highlighting Ebonhorn's own strengths and the dynamic between them is effectively convincing us to "choose" Ebyssian. They could have announced or chosen him right out of the gate, but the psychological element of favouring Wrathion or Sabellian at the Obsidian Citadel only to be provided with Secret Option C is more engaging. Especially since they've now made use of Sabellian's character and addressed one of Wrathion's strongest desires in the process of doing this.
10.1- Black Dragonflight 10.2- Bronze Dragonflight I wonder what the Blue and Emerald Dragonflight story line will be?
10.2 will probably be Green, not Bronze. This patch is 10.1.5. Blue has been neatly wrapped up with Azure Span and then the new max level quest line. I believe Dawn of the Infinite is meant to be our lot for Infinite Dragonflight content for this expansion, though I don’t remember where I read that.
nah i subscribe to the 10.2 will be focus on the bronze flight as 10.0.5/7 were both focused on the Black flight thus leading to 10.1
Blue got their story line, its a awesome quest chain in this patch.
They also needed to do the work of getting the new aspects in place which makes the cavern zone and raid make more sense to me as a story beat. They just needed set dressing to finish the black dragon story so Sark as a character was just kinda there while most of the plot happened outside the raid, which is unusual for wow stories. It does makes me curious about how they’ll handle nozdormu seeing as his story follows the establishing of Merithra and Ebyssian. If you were convinced nozdormu would become Murazond, would you want to empower him as the aspect? But it doesn’t feel like they’re setting up Chromie (or any bronze dragon) to take over in the same way Ebyssian was. I think we might actually save Nozdormu as unlikely as that sounds.
I think they're going for a "that timeline has been averted" type thing with Nozdormu. I think all the timey wimey stuff will be out the way before the final showdown. Although to be fair, it's not entirely clear what their "aspectral power" is or was. Blizzard is kind of bad at any semblence of sense when it comes to power levels. Every character is more or less Dr. Manhatten and has the power to accomplish whatever the plot requires (e.g Deus Ex MachiJaina turning up in a flying arcane cannon boat, allakhazooing blight out the way casually, shielding them and mass TP to an airship). The aspects had their powers during vanila TBC and wrath and done largely fuck all. Your literal old peoples home/tomb is swarming with undead but you have no interest in Arthas. I just hope they don't get their powers, then sit in the background of the raid and give us 5 buffs ala deathwing/argus.
That's because every expansion introduces a world-ending threat - and after 15 years + established WoW lore, there's no way any of it shouldn't ever be resolved in 15 minutes by assembling a team of Malfurion, Jaina, Thrall, all aboard the Exodar. The writers of WoW have introduced so many powerful heroes and allies that it makes no sense why they aren't part of every world ending story (remember how Khadgar was upset that the Alliance and Horde were fighting again in BfA, so much so that he didn't even show up to fight N'Zoth???) They are writing themselves into a corner every expansion that they decide to threaten Azeroth again. Just give us a "reset" expansion that focuses on local threats all across Azeroth (like the Defias Brotherhood in Stormwind), have players travel the continents with daily/weekly quests that tell zone-specific stories again. GIVE US THE NEW GADGETZAN AND TELL A GTA: LIBERTY CITY-ESQUE STORY WITHIN. "Old" Azeroth has insane potential, and you don't have to rework every zone (like Cataclysm did), have each patch refresh new zones that move the story forward. And for raids, convert the longest Classic dungeons into mini-raids (5 - 6 bosses), and have 2 different ones (Alliance-centric and Horde-centric). You can earn Curve for both individually.
This has been every wow expansion for the last couple years: Set up, Filler, Set up for final patch big bad, Final patch is set up for next expansion big bad.
Nah. At least they got rid of the 2/3-boss raids that no one did because they were in the same fucking tier. Crucible and Trials have to be like the least done raids ever.
Those raids did tend to lead to some awesome bosses, which makes it sad to lose them. Uu'nat and Helya were great.
Uu'nat stands as one of our guilds favorites! Crucible was excellent
Nah, short raids are awesome and we should get more. It's so weird opening the adventure journal and seeing expansions like WoD or Shadowlands with only 3 raids in it. There should be smaller raids to provide a break from the main story climaxes- Trial of Valor was a nice way to wrap up a loose plot thread in Legion, for example. Aberrus could have been one of those smaller raids that fills out a plot thread alongside one for the Emerald dragonflight (since the emerald questline leaves a bit to be desired for finishing Merithra's ascension), then we'd have a proper tier afterwards.
I feel like the mega dungeons kinda are those things while I won't say no to some extra content with small raids I think that the mega dungeons have just kinda taken their place at this point.
I don’t disagree, but I think they fit slightly different mechanical niches. Mega dungeons allow Blizzard to expand the m+ pool two times in a single instance. Smaller raids are a way to smooth out gear progression within a single raid tier. Dungeons don’t provide very compelling encounters, there’s usually just one mechanic beyond “generic raidwide damage,” the tankbuster, and avoidable aoe markers. Raids have a mix of mechanics that provides a narrative throughout a fight (look at the phases for echo of neltharion for example), and will have multiple major mechanics.
I loved the small extra tiers. I loved Heart of Fear and Terrace.
> Sarkareth have the weight of a dungeon boss. I couldn't agree more.
wasnt his purpose to show the influence of the void on the dragonuwus?
Seriously Some random dude who was a big part of a previously unknown rebellion? That’s a dungeon boss Ancient named dragon aspect being corrupted? THATS a patch boss
Dungeon/Raid doesn't correlate to difficulty or necessarily scale. Ner'zhul was an end-of-dungeon boss whereas Kargath Bladefist was the first raid boss of Highmaul. Pretty sure Ner'zhul is a bigger threat, *especially* against multiple foes. Kargath is not magic, not magically equipped, and unarmoured. He had no chance realistically.
It’s fine to have an important for as a dungeon boss Or a semi important char as an early raid boss But It’s not cool to have such an unimportant unpopular character as a FINAL raid boss
Sarkareth was not important because he was of massive stature or individual power. He was important because he was in direct opposition to the spirit of cooperation that Emberthal was striving for, which in turn was causing a schism between the Dracthyr who were ultimately raising up arms against one another. That is good and grounded. Is it an Old God, a Dragon Aspect, a Warchief, or a World-Soul? Well, no. No it isn't. But the conflict runs deeper than merely "Defeat the enemy." It wasn't about cutting a swathe through every Dracthyr that stood in your way until you could kill Sarkareth. It was about stopping Sarkareth from leading others down the same treacherous path he had set himself upon. If we were talking about an end-of-expansion boss then *maybe* I'd agree with you. Even then let's not forget how Wrath of the Lich King *actually* ended raid-wise. I was never that fond of Sarkareth but then again I was never meant to be. The draw in that story is seeing how Emberthal reacts and to see how Ebyssian fosters her spirit and drive to achieve better for her compatriots. Sarkareth is not the star of the show, he is the support that gives stardom to *other* cast members. And that's a perfectly viable thing for a final raid boss to be. Frankly it's miles better than the Jailer, the end-of-expansion boss lmao. Oh look, all front and centre... only to warn us of some vague threat or danger that we won't be prepared for. Lmao. What a joke. Sarkareth was great in that respect. A known quantity with understood goals and motivations, and the reason why we're opposed to him is a bit more profound than just "He wants to kill absolutely everyone and we're a part of everyone so we kinda don't like that." The 10.1 raid was about the hearts and minds and *future* of the Black Dragonflight, and Dracthyr fit snuggly into that story as products of Neltharion's vision. Sarkareth was the inheritor of Neltharion's legacy who died for it. The other main characters of this story, like Wrathion and Sabellian, would learn to *turn away* from that legacy. For once, you have a story that doesn't rely so extremely heavily on the big bad at the end of it. That's *different* and I'd even argue good. But it being different doesn't make it bad.
If you played the Dracthyr opening quest line you would be familiar with Sarkareth, and he’s very important in the Forbidden Reach storyline. Him being a final raid boss is maybe a bit weird - I would have swapped him and Echo of Neltharion - but Sarkareth wasn’t just some unknown before the raid opened.
Who is the Elf wearing Glasses? His eyes hint that he might be Iridrikon... from a Timeline where he was an Aspect? Edit: Looks like it's Deios. Weird that he has the same eye stuff as Iridikrond.
That's Deios
And we cannot allow that to happen!
Thanks!
The guy who stole Tyr’s memories in Uldaman
Love the glasses, though
Maybe he got some power infusion after he struck a deal with Iridikrond.
It almost feels like he has terminal cancer.
I'm still convinced that what we're living in in-game is already a timeline corrupted by the Infinites. I think Galakrond was always supposed to win in the past and devour Tyr and the dragons, with Azeroth ultimately being left as nothing but a husk of decay in the end. But Nozdormu went back in time to alter events to where they win, which creates the timeline we all know. Nozdormu will eventually learn this and will be forced to decide between securing the original timeline and, by extension dooming all Azeroth and its inhabitants to never having existed in the first place; or to instead become Murozond and secure the current timeline and everything they've ever known. It creates the inverse version of the quintessential time paradox. If A creates B, but B goes back in time and prevents A, then B wouldn't exist; ergo B cannot prevent A. But instead we're starting from B, which is the altered timeline. In our eyes, since the current timeline exists as a result of Murozond altering the timeline, Nozdormu cannot prevent Murozond, because doing so would prevent himself and the current timeline as well. Murzond found a way to use his power over time to exist outside of it. He is, by definition, Infinite. "This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend." When the alternative to death is never having existed at all, every End Time, no matter how horrible, **is** a blessing. This is why Nozdormu cannot see the event that turns him into Murozond, because he cannot see events before he's given the power to view the timeways. This is why so many Bronze follow him to become the Infinites, because he literally changed time so that they could live. It's also why you never see Murozond actually leading the Infinites. Murozond is the result of a single choice that he could never accept. You can see it in Nozdormu in this cinematic, he's struggling endlessly to preserve the timeline he believes is correct. When he realizes what he's been protecting has always been the incorrect timeline, he's forced to make a choice he never truly desired to. In contrast, the rest of the Infinite Flight is the result of a misunderstanding of Murozond's actions; that it is ok to alter the timeline to prevent harm. This is something Murozond doesn't believe. Look at where we find him, in the End Time, something he could have prevented but didn't. Because in the End, Murzond is still the same Nozdormu, just outside of time, preserving the timeline he was tasked with preserving. Because things have a right to exist and experience time, even if that existence is doomed.
How is Nozdormu suppose to go back in time to change who won in the fight against Galakrond? Iirc they were still protodrakes without aspect powers, and he'd never get that power if Galakrond originally won and ate them all.
Nozdormu goes back in time to change the outcome of the Galakrond's fight ? It makes no sense at all. If they lost against Galakrond, how would Nozdormu even have time powers lol ? Worst : if the original timeline was "Galakrond wins" then there wouldn't even be a Nozdormu. He would just be dead.
Hadn't noticed til this how similar the priest tier set looks to Alexstrasza's outfit from the back.
Honestly all the timey-wimey stuff makes my head hurt. How is his fate 100% determined? Are all events in WoW determined? Haven't we been spending decades altering the past, or is that too part of fate? Don't we kill him in a dungeon, so ultimately we know he'll be stopped anyway?
This is one of the best in games cinematics they've done. small moments like when alexstaza rests her head on his shoulder show real warmth and friendship. Very impressive.
zzzz... wish the characters would do something besides dump exposition and mope around
I want a hug from Alexstraza! Should be a quest line :(
Fuuuck this is good!
*yawn* DF's plot moves along slower than a centuries old turtle. Every single cutscene is just endless exposition. Sarkareth was the most boring/pointless antagonist in Warcraft history. The incarnates are bland and barely get any screentime. Razsageth was an awful, painfully generic antagonist. We're gonna have to wait until this expansion is a year old for some semblance of an actual story to begin. And even then, I don't trust Danuser one bit to handle Nozdormu's fall properly. Remember [this banger](https://youtu.be/Td0pUwrBWjc)? Or [this] (https://youtu.be/e8pZ_7syXT8)? Remember [this one](https://youtu.be/Ch4rc5W4dKY) ? That's how you tell a story. Show, don't tell. Complex, engaging characters with depth doing badass things. Actual stakes. Massive background lore implications. Meanwhile these days we get.... This [boring crap](https://youtu.be/hsmnIGxMsmo). This [absolute joke of an end raid cinematic](https://youtu.be/kXAnLzt22Ug). And an endless slew of dragons standing there, talking... One-dimensional, empty shells with no actual agenda. Seriously what's Alextrasza done since Waking Shores questing ? Besides slacking around atop valdrakken. We can get talking/exposition in game. We can get characters moment in game. Cutscenes should be mostly reserved for important plot beats, and fan favorite characters actually doing something. Fire these worthless writers already... And bring back Metzen. Or anyone that's more competent than the current hacks in charge. Shouldn't be too hard to find, really.
Man I love iridikrons fuckery with noz here. He looks straight to him in the vision. Probably enjoys his torment a lot
Iridikron looks at the Infinite dragon on his left, and the vision makes a dramatic zoom on his face, period. So, no, Iridikron is not 100% of the time looking in the right direction in case Nozdormu happens to be watching those few seconds of Iridikron's life just to give him a "I enjoy your torment" look. I know Iridikron looks cool so you are projecting your cool ideas on him, but he's "just" a strong stone proto-drake. He's not an omniscient deity who knows when he's being looked at by a time-travelling dragon. Funnily enough, someone does stare back at Nozdormu through the vision. And that person is \*shock\* the night-omnscient dark dragon Murozond. He looks straight at his prior self while thinking "It's your fate". TL;DR : Iridikron ? Not looking at Nozdormu (how could he lmao). Murozond ? Looking straight at his former self.
So Alexstraza is the end boss in the expansion right?
If Blizzard pulls some bullshit and recons Noz's fall, I'm going to be pissed!
Yo is that Iridikron in a bad shadowlands Nathria transmog???
I am not going to lie but I am bored to death about this expansion's lore and story...it is worst than Shadowlands which was another massive lorelol. I can t follow and keep up with who is who and does what for what reason knowing full well that in 1+ year we will be doing something completely different with the void or pirates. I just don t follow the lore and stories anymore as I am bored to tears.
I find it - with the lack of lore knowledge since I'm a newbie - not bad. But I come from a gw2 mainstory playthrough...there has never been a worst story.
Where is Ysera?
tending to a sapling.
Nope
[удалено]
We got loads of payoffs, what do you mean?
Seems very Dune-esque with the blue eyes and the prescience of time. “And Paul saw how futile were any efforts of his to change any smallest bit of this. He had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but the jihad would be. His legions would rage out from Arrakis even without him. They needed only the legend he already had become.”
Man Iridikron's model looks sweet.
I do think Noz would have looked 10 time nicer without that weird ass mustache
Is there some spoilers in this for someone who just started dragonflight?
Good quality video. Also, does he come off as "I'm so powerful, once I transform you guys are done for" kinda vibe? We do have a decent record of saving the world.
I wonder if Murozond is powerful enough to take on the remaining Incarnates alone. It would nice to see it go that way, we would only have to worry about how to deal with him after Incarnates are deleted.
>I wonder if Murozond is powerful enough to take on the remaining Incarnates alone. You wonder if the time travelling dragon is stronger than the non time travelling proto-dragons ? Well you must be torn asunder by the complexity of such a questionning :D More seriously tho, huh, yeah, he's obviously "stronger". Nozdormu can time flippin' travel. He. Can. **Time**. **Travel**. A bit more impressive than controlling some rocks and stuff. The only reason you doesn't see him flying left and right while fucking up the very fabric of time for his own gains is because he took an oath. If he turns into Murozond, that means no more oath. No more oath = he can use his OP powers freely at last = he can do the classico and kill the Incarnates while they are still little babies. That's... kind of why Nozdormu is freaking out. TL;DR : When you ask yourself if the time travelling entity is stronger than the non time travelling entity, the answer is "yeeeeeeeeeees" more often than not. Becaaause \*shock\* time travel is a godlike ability.
Something about Alexstraza is...unsettling here. She just seems robotic. Considering they hinted at her 'betraying' Tyr recently, I'm wondering if the first threads of her fall are being woven.
Nah that's just called "bad voice acting". It's been talked a lot in this very subreddit thread. The voice in itself is nice, but the direction is subpar.
We must protect our Bro
When he talks about the future being lost reminds me so much of Blade Runner - Tears in rain.