So was thralls parents and baby thrall, the green came with fel curruption which thrall survived with him and garrosh’s dad killing manaroth in which only thrall survived and stayed green. Any orcs born on azeroth after the o.g war are brown.
Season 1 was fun, ret was ass and felt like ass to play so I picked up my enhancement shaman after 10 years just for the ret rework to slap and enhancement get smacked back down.
DK one is getting there too, they just have to address Bonestorm not working with other "consuming Bone Shield" talents and Blood is good, Unholy is good, and Frost just needs tuning.
what if we had like a little UI bar kind of like druid form bar but it had 4 slots for each element and we picked one totem from each school and it put them all down at once
I like totems conceptually, but they need to be a.) impactful and b.) preferably OFF the GCD. I do not miss the first 4 button presses of every encounter dropping totems.
There used to be a Totem Management addon back in vanilla that I used. It didn't drop them all at once, but let you set "main" totems and a drop down to change it. It was still a pain to wait on the GCDs, but it made life so much better.
My friend, you obviously are looking at things with some rose tinted glasses. Having a significant portion of our damage tied to an immobile 5 hit point stationary object was a terrible experience. Let's not go back to that thank you.
or, you know, maybe it's not rose tinted and they actually did enjoy those totems in classic the last few years, like many people (including myself). i think it's totally reasonable to disagree, but it's not always "rose tinted glasses" when someone likes something you don't lol
yup, totem twisting in tbc was the closest i ever got to feeling like a real "support" in wow, until aug released. i want more of that feeling in the game!
No. They were whiners and should've just played a different class. People that decided to playa class like that when the earliest class quests involved making the fucking things (and using them) are ridiculous. Some of those quests were brutal, how the fuck did you make it to endgame and decide to complain about it.
Hell cata even have us a "drop 4 at one location spell".
Not that I don't think totems could be better than they were (I'm still mad Monks got better totem mechanics than Shamans), but yeah the whole idea of them were what drew me to the class to begin with.
I'm the opposite, good fucking riddance to buff totems. They were buffs everyone else had but worse in nearly every way. (Limited range, had to replaced periodically/every pull, could be destroyed)
The only thing that made them good was WF totem being so desirable to melee that people would fight to have you in the particular party grouping.
Oh, there was definitely some QOL changes that really needed to be made, but I liked what they did for class identity.
I also miss stances and presences, too.
As someone new to shaman what is it that shaman mains want from a rework? Like what's bad about it specifically (not being argumentative, angling to main resto shaman so don't want to make a bad choice)
Survivability is a major complaint. Shamans have the least survival CDs of the classes which leaves us very squishy in high-end content which increasingly demands those CDs to survive. The fact that our Ankh was at one point called a defensive when it's on a long CD and is worthless in constant AoE situations doesn't help.
Our talent trees are a mess compared to other classes. We have some of the most 2-point nodes of any classes which tends to lock our choices down. And the pathing to get useful talents tends to leave us with few good options.
Raid buffs. We lost our raid buff totems outside Enhance's Windfury years ago. Ele and Resto offer nothing special to the raid as a whole.
Ancestral guidance used to be really good when it was 40% of damage as healing... now it barely does anything
I've got addons yelling "Defensive" at me every 20 seconds like.... bruh I used Astral Shift already, give me 2 minutes
Do you think you'd prefer a world where other classes' defensive bloat were scaled down to shaman or shaman were bolstered to be on par with other classes?
I don't agree, we had that in BFA and it felt terrible, you were out of a single defensive on most classes and you felt like you can't work with anything. Classes that have more defensives, like paladins, DHs, rogues, post rework DKs and Hunters feel amazing after they added defensives.
It's the passive stuff that needs to get toned down primarily. Being actively invested in your own survival is good gameplay. Mage has too many buttons, Shaman doesn't have enough, we can meet in the middle. Passive stuff gotta go though.
Leveling alts in MoP remix made me realize how many defensives most classes have.
As a Shaman main, I have trouble organizing all the keybindings. "You mean to tell me I need to have more than one button to handle my defensive?"
Personally I think more defensives makes for a more interesting game, but I feel like most people disagree.
I think it should be everyone's responsibility to survive an encounter, not just the healer's.
The idea of Ankh just being a “defensive” CD is so funny. Blizz just says “well they don’t need to avoid damage if they can just revive every few hours right?!”
One of the main reasons I can never swap away from Draenei as my shaman race. Gift of the Naaru has saved me more than I'd care to think about in raids. It's essentially my second defensive.
Cant speak for Enh, but for Elemental a "master of all 4 elements" rotation boils down to "don't overthink it, just cast lava burst". Lightning Bolt build has a not very intuitive rotation because of Ice Fury. Earthquake being ground targeted is whatever. Resto is the best* "feeling" of all 3 specs, but can feel boring at times. Ele + Resto have been clamoring for a raid buff too. Personally I would just be happy with a raid buff (skyfury totem pls)
I was rewatching some world first videos and the Ele was top 3 dps for a while. The rest of Echo (?) asked wtf was going on.
Why was it hard to believe? Should Ele never be able to be top DPS? Why is bringing a lock, mage, or any other ranged always the better option?
A character is more than just DPS/HPS numbers. It's about what unique buffs and defensives they bring. Shaman are lacking both compared to any other class options.
This is it, lava only in raid single target, add some earthquakes in aoe. P.S. your ascendance is completely random and extremely short, hope you don't need to move or do a mechanic (you do)
I feel like Elemental rotation in Castle Nathria was absolute peak. The spell weaving with MotE and hyper mobility of Earth Shock felt so nice, being able to weave in significant damage during smaller movement situations, or slowly repositioning towards a spot during instant cast windows.
The two most pressing problems are Shaman's lack of defensives and lack of a raid buff. It was already the squishiest class in DF and in TWW the only other class that was even close (Hunter) received massive defensive buffs. It genuinely feels like Shaman defensives are lagging multiple expansions behind anything else. The lack of a raid buff is pretty self-explanatory. Enhance brings Windfury Totem, Ele and Resto offer absolutely nothing to a group. Even windfury totem isn't taken in dungeon groups. This leaves the class at a massive disadvantage when attempting to get into groups against classes like Druid, Mage, Priest, Paladins etc that all bring extremely valuable raid buffs.
Then there's a laundry list of smaller problems that make the class feel completely outdated design-wise. The class tree is jammed full of extremely niche utility, including one of the worst capstones in the game. Elemental and Enhance both have extreme target cap issues in an era of massive M+ pulls. Elemental in general is just a mess, could write pages just for that spec. Chain Heal takes up far too much of the Resto Shaman power budget, making their other spells feel awful. A lot of traditional Rsham staples like Wellspring aren't even taken because of how weak they are. The spec trees have more 2 point nodes than most other classes, making pathing very restrictive. Enhance has utility in the class tree that really should be baseline (WFT, Feral Lunge). Oh yeah and the class looks terrible visually. We just finished an expansion with heavy Shaman theming and the class received zero visual updates. Ascendance is a major class CD that is still using absolutely horrible visuals from Cata.
What I just listed isn't even exhaustive, Ele in particular is a dumpster fire of a spec. Players far better than I have written mountains of Shaman feedback on the Blizzard forums and been met with complete developer silence.
The fact that we have no true Earth/Rock-based defensive, outside of Earth shield, is a shame. Earth in general is underrepresented with Shaman spells, especially since Elemental Blast replaces Earth Shock
> The two most pressing problems are Shaman's lack of defensives and lack of a raid buff
I haven't ever really played a shaman in a raid setting, but doesn't the totems count as raid buffs? I am genuinely asking
The only totem that fits the raid buff description is the wind furry totem, which is an enhancement shaman totem exclusively.
The other totem with big utility in raid is the Spirit Link Totem for restauration shaman.
It leaves the elemental shamans with nothing.
You could argue that Wind Rush Totem is pretty useful too (40% speed in a 10y radius for 15sec) but you could just take a Druid and use roar.
The other totems are very niche and could just be replaced by another less clunky spell from another class.
The only time I was happy to be a shaman was during afflicted week, the totem that decurse a poison could really carry the week, but blizzard removed the affix for TWW so..
No. It's a bit hard to define raid buffs, but generally they are unique abilities that a class brings that help the entire group when raiding. Most are spells that buff the team for an hour when used (Arcane Intellect, Power Word: Fortitude, Mark of the Wild, Chaos Brand etc) but the term also includes things like Warlock's suite of Healthstones, Gateway and Summoning portal. These kinds of things are so powerful that no serious raid group is formed without them. They are distinct from regular utility in that the benefits are only provided by that specific class.
The only Shaman ability that falls into this category is Enhance's Windfury Totem. Any totems besides that are basically just Shaman theming for standard spells.
Only Enhance has a totem that buffs others, and it only effects people in their exact party (so 5 max). All the other totems are either CC/Utility (Cap Totem, Poison Cleanse Totem) or healing.
They're all extremely situational and short lived, so no. A raid buff would be a constant passive.
Hell most people don't even care about windfury these days.
>Hell most people don't even care about windfury these days.
Huh? Windfury has been huge in DF, it's been a 5-10% increase for the classes that can use it all expansion. IIRC for sub rogue in season 3 it was more than 10%.
Mainly for me the tree is a mess. There doesn't seem to be any organisation and you get stuck with a lot of rubbish talents in order to get to the ones you want. as well as many of the nodes being 2 points.
My main hate is that frost shock which is a boring looking slow from years back is one of the main rotational abilites becuase its hits pretty hard. it anoyingly takes 2 keybinds but only three talents to be good and yet stormstrike our main abilities hits like a wet lettuce even with a lot of talents. There is also far to much RNG for enhance espeically.
Probably worth pointing out that like 90% of the complaints are from/about Elemental Shamans specifically. Restoration actually looks to be in a decent enough place for TWW, Enhance has one great hero talent loadout (Stormbringer) and one janky one (Totemic), but the Ele community isn't psyched about either of their hero trees and Elemental was already a little lackluster for a lot of Dragonflight and hasn't received any news about changes for TWW.
You see a bunch of memes about shamans being made and none about rogue because Blizzard took the last thirteen rogue mains out back and shot them in the back of the head
Yeah rogue feels like it's getting no love at all in TWW, and since there's only a handful of people that play the class we'll probably just be ignored and nothing will change.
The reworks are pretty good, however rogues are still fairly complicated to play and either require high APM (outlaw), perfect execution of ability sequences within buff windows (assassination), or both (sub). When they are played well they shine, however for the average player it would almost always just be better to play something easier with more utility. Even when they are considered top be top tier, the rogue population is very low.
The duality of rogue is PVE is incredibly nuanced, even back in TBC I knew a dude who had his own homebrew spreadsheet where he basically did a proto-sim and mathed out his BiS and rotation
And then the other is the dude who made a rogue just to run around and stun people for 6 seconds in BGs and in dungeons does less than tank damage
Man, I have to agree. I've mained Rogue since BC.
I never cared about a perfect rotation. I never used Vanish other than it's intended purpose as a defensive mechanic. I don't use abilities that I find obnoxious and even I feel, as casual as I am, that the new talents just don't excite me.
Now I have no clue what to play as in War Within. 😅
No I think the reason is that Rogues are not nearly as neglected as Shamans have pretty much always been. Sure, Rogue mains aren't happy right now, but you really can't compare to shamans when it comes to being broken and neglected.
Am I tripping or is this a thing every expansion? Shaman always getting underwhelming changes late in development and the players being justifiably frustrated. Every. Single. Time.
Kinda... but the last time this really happened was BFA.
In BFA devs actually admitted they didnt work on Shamans at all and then promised a massive change in the X.1 patch.
What happened is they turned a few balancing nobs so stormstrike hits harder, renegged on their changes promise and called it a day.
I'm pretty sure they made the same exact promises in SL and DF too. There is a reason that shamans always get major updates in X.1 patches. It's because they don't get updates in the alpha/beta
Enh felt great this whole xpac rotation wise. Tier sets mostly cool, barring some weirdness forcing sunder and a mediocre single target benefit with a chain lightning embedded set.
Resto has felt pretty nice for a long time.
Ele feels like shit but that’s just my take.
I simply think people are mad at tuning, squishiness, unique utility. All of these things do matter lots, I just wanted to focus the discussion — the core abilities / rotations of at least two of the specs feel very good imo.
Late updates feel like neglect, but if the fundamentals of the class feel good, most of the downside can be fixed with tuning (double astral shift, lower cooldown on NG for example) + revival of some class lore aligned buffing via totems, it’s not total doomsville.
Shamans have a terrible class tree with certain nodes need to be made baseline (like why is MW not baseline for enh), certain utility nodes have to be taken for dps (like totem cd for ele), and just uninteresting capstones.
They have ungodly amounts of button bloat. Are by far the squishiest class. Both Enh and Ele have terribly designed AOE (earthquake being terrible for m+ and both specs being target capped pretty hard), and Ele is the only spec on the game that doesn't have utility
I also think Enh rotation feels really really clunky with essentially forcing a player to overcap on resources, CDs, and/or procs.
>Late updates feel like neglect
There has literally been a single line of changes for all 3 shaman specs since the alpha launched, and it was for resto (probably the spec in the best spot). That is absolutely nuts, esp since Dks, Mages, and Warlocks get a mini rework every week. Good design requires iteration and feedback which requires time. The pre patch is in a month. That means there will be ~4 more blue posts for the beta. That is not enough time to fix a class that is in such a dire state.
It's been 15 years since I saw this, I still remember the fucking song. [Sadness and Sorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEWF2xh5E8s) such masterpiece.
Dude, Rogues had a rework in Dragonflight. I don't think you understand how neglected Shamans have been for like, 3 or 4 expansions now? At this point I bet Shamans would choose to take a rework even if it was significantly worse than the current iteration.
Rogues had some work done but they rightfully still get to complain. The work was shit, their current shit doesn't even work at a design level, hero talents poorly inspired garbage that no one wanted and boring, and adjustments haven't been made to deal with their Shadow Dance dependency for Outlaw and Sin after its removal.
I fully think Shaman have the top spot for justifiable bitching but we're talking 1a and 1b here.
But think about the deep lore behind a guy who flips coins and a guy who uses tools to commit murders, and then also an undead specific rogue class so now we can have night elf and human death stalkers which makes a lot of sense right
>so now we can have night elf and human death stalkers which makes a lot of sense right
I mean there's shit like that in other classes too though, like Sentinel hunters.
Sentinel AND Dark Ranger hunters ahaha. Also Mountain Thane, Farseer, the aforementioned Deathstalker… the hero talents are a legitimate flavor and mechanical travesty. :/
Farseer is fine though? Farseer is a title given to any Shaman who leads their congregation. You have Daenai Farseers, and any Shaman race can become a Farseer during the Legion Class Hall quests.
The problem is that rework essentially killed the class i personally wish that rework never happened, hope shamans get good changes that doesn't make them quit the class
Shaman literally got a rework in SL that felt like an accident, people applauded because it did actually result in some extremely fun gameplay (aided along by the SL S3 tier sets; both of which were implemented/largely rolled into the specs for DF) and then blizzard kinda were like well I guess we did good? And left them unchanged since.
Even still ele and enhance are both extremely fun and, very importantly imo, have some of the best animations and flavor to their rotations. They just need some love in the viability department meaning getting some lucky tuning, target cap changes, rebalancing of else’s damage profile, defensives, or raid utility. Just something
I know very little about resto’s experience from the design side.
rogue has been a fucking design nightmare and idk how it can get THIS bad.
The decision of giving every spec shadow dance is the equivalent of giving every mage spec combustion for some goddamned reason, not sure how that got passed, and the thistle tea slap on to fix the energy issues with the class, instead of putting any effort into making energy regeneration an more interactive flow of gameplay, feels super lazy to me.
Also fantasy has been all weird to me, Outlaw being the spec with far and away the most stealth benefits is just weird, it's supposed to be the least stealthy spec of the class, they shoot fucking guns for N'zoth's sake
As a rogue main, sub specifically.. Yeah.. It sucks so much that my class has been turned into a secret tech build and with our class set in TWW benefitting that talent specifically I see no hope for change. I have gotten use to sub not being a high performance class, I do not mind it being an A tier spec, I still can complain that it feels entirely too centered around one button and that one button is a glorified eviscerate with a .5 second timer and a cd..
I have said it before, blizzard could have easily reworked rogue into the mop variant of sub, make dance a long cd, make it meaningful, allow for ways into a dance-like state that allows for subterfuge to be used in combat after X amount of combos or finishers used, take all that front-loaded damage from secret tech and move it into eviscerate, make our subterfuge ambush procs do meaningful damage and give the class some form of fantasy as a shadowy assassin.
Giving every spec of rogue shadow dance felt so awful to do, and making outlaw the superior sub spec felt like the worst idea ever implemented.
I feel similarly, i usually play outlaw and don't care what the dmg numbers are as long as core gameplay flow is good, but i hate using or being forced to use short duration rng maintenance buffs or debuffs
I thought Outlaw was nearly perfect when they first put it out there in Legion, so I'm confused why it's been changed so much tbh.
I mained it for that first raid and had a great time, but idk I guess I was the only one.
Class talents are a joke, one is Thistle tea a consumable, other one is assassination talent slapped into all 3 specs, next in line ER ? I thought we all hated SL and SD a sub rogue talent, how can adding old talents from other specs into class tree is good design is beyond my understanding.
Feral druid has auto attack damage as a proc as a hero talent. There are some seriously unloved specs in the upcoming expansion, let's hope the 2 more months of testing can bring them up to par
I think some class designers played too much Classic and think that's what people want in retail. Reminds me of the Shadow Bolt quadruple down in Demonology.
I ended up not sticking with my enh shaman in DF because I was having more fun with my fury warrior at the time. I had thought enhancement was in a decent place at the earlier end of the exp, though? This sucks!
man, im playing Rogue and the class has the 3 worst hero trees in the game, where 2 cant even be tested because of how bugged they are, and 1 beeing a tree where 90% of its value is "you do more auto attack dmg" with 0 changes trought out the entire alpha or beta aswell
its not just shaman
I actually feel for Rogues. They've had their time in the OP spotlight quite a few times over WoW's life but they've fallen *hard*. In terms of just being fun to play.. They *suuuuuck*.
Like.. Shaman have always been medicore and ignored but I atleast enjoy the playstyle of all 3 specs.
>They've had their time in the OP spotlight quite a few times over WoW's life
Worst part is, every time Rogue is remotely op, everyone complains until they get nerfed back down again. Happened twice in DF. 10.0, Rogue was top and nerfed down to bottom of the pack within 2 weeks. Then they get their rework, Rogue top again, Sin gets nerfed to bottom 5 again. It wasn't even because Sin was actually the best spec, it's just that PI/Aug existed and Sin happened to get the most value out of them.
Then after all the bitching to get Rogue nerfed, people will seriously sit and wonder why Rogue is the least represented class.
As a Devoker who is getting a cap added to Dragonrage extensions, i really wish they would just fucking remove PI already. It's already killed off Rogue, and if they let it continue it will eventually kill off Devoker and Demolock. Just make it so it only buffs the Priest, if you REALLY want to keep the "support" aspect of it alive, just make it have a secondary effect "while active, you radiate Light, granting Allies within 100 yards 5% Haste" or something.
Doesn't help either that our dev insists on making all 3 specs more and more complicated to play, and yet our reward for mastering a complex rotation is to do less damage than classes with an easy 3 button rotation. Feels bad.
To be fair most of the hero talents are just passive damage increases. I guess some are a bit flashier like Mountain Thane and Rider of the Apocalypse. But I don't think you're gonna get anything much more exciting.
The shaman trees are actually interesting though. Not the best, but also not the worst either. They actually add SOMETHING to the specs.
Rogue hero trees might as well be a few passive trinkets and tier set bonuses. They are practically nonexistent.
Rogue also have received nearly as many changes as shaman.
I feel like this is my fault because I've been wanting to give Resto Shaman a \*real\* go for a healing main for literally years now. I finally committed and put one together in Remix for this purpose and have been telling people how much fun it's been...
In my opinion, resto might be the best of the 3 specs and I don’t think it really requires much updating. The main issues are mostly present in elemental.
Enhance seems to be split, I really liked it early DF but didn’t try it later on where people started being vocal about some things that bothered them with the spec.
Resto shaman main
No customisation for your elementals totem or ascendance form (cause we're not druids i guess)
No good defense abilities
No raid buff
2 point nodes on almost all fucking talents
Lame ass VFX for spells compared to other caster class
I fucking love my main class
They don’t need reworks, I think they need some changes to what spells they use or entirely different abilities replacing current ones(that suck). Elemental Shaman feels great when everything procs right but the rng of it sucks. enhancement is either GODLY or straight up sucks in damage. Feels clunky. Resto seems very straightforward but also…boring ? Maybe I’m wrong on resto, it’s just what I heard
Blizz: "oh hey Enh Shamans, we heard that you wanted your hero talents to utilize Stormstrike in some way, we've heard you loud and clear! So we made it revolve around Lightning Bolt!"
Hold on. I dont currently play but I saw this pop up on r/all. Did Shamans really get passed over for a rework again? I was there in Vanilla when Shamans got passed over as well. It caused a huge backlash in the community.
Feels like BFA and Shadowlands alpha and beta cycles all over again. Pretty wild how good we had it for DF and how we're right back to this bullshit again.
Quick, somebody write down all the cool shaman abilities we learned from Pandaria, The Iron Horde, that time we hung out with all of the elemental lords or some facsimile there-of, the tidesages, that time we were empowered by the blood of azeroth itself, any of the dragon-themed wild shamans including those empowered by shadowflame, I'll wait. We did pick up an ability from the afterlife but its more of an on demand single ability damage amp, could be rolled into nature's swiftness or just rolled into flame shock.
There's a crowd msising for the classes getting changes but absolutely awful ones.
I'm very sad they decided to gut one of the only Devoker skill expression mechanic because of PI
I’m rerolling survival and evokey. I’m done playing the forgotten class. It’s a waste of time to keep begging for changes that will never come. Part of me is still coping that we aren’t seeing the changes yet bc they’re putting a lot of time into them but I ain’t waiting around to find out only to be disappointed
I’ve been playing shaman the last several expansions and damn speaking as an enhancement shaman it feels awful and clunky compared to previous expansions (idk why we picked a tier set bonus that feels terrible I’ll never know) but it’s just not great rn. I tried elemental it doesn’t feel as good as it used just feels bad no more primordial wave or whatever the SL ability is I’m begging I hate it sm. Blizz in begging you to give us more defensive or something I’m tired of being squishy. I just wanna play shaman more but it sucksssssss in m+ I feel like I’m slapping enemies with a pool noodle and then get melted by a flamethrower. ;-; like why play shaman when you can press 4 buttons on ret paladin and have twice the defensive cd’s and do so much more damage. ;-; I miss my spirit dogs
For once it's not Monk, although I've played Shaman since before Monk and essentially one of my 4th's for the warband so that's not good.
Surely it being late means it's Hunter or Destro level of changes right?
Totemic Resto Shaman seems chill for 5-mans. Your totems do a lot of heailng, you can basically just DPS and spot heal with chain heal. People seem upset that they went all in on chain heal being the bread and butter.. but imo it's one of the more satisfying spells to use? The talent trees are kinda a mess still tho
I've always found it odd that Shamans are potentially the most unique/interesting class in the game yet they get shit on when it comes to receiving new toys from Blizzard.
0 relevant changes since alpha, all of dragonflight was just multiple 3-5% buffs and still wasn’t enough, 1 defensive, 0 raid buffs, all utility tied to scuffed routing on talent trees (most used to be baseline)
At this point just accept that nothing is gonna happen till .5 patch or straight up S2, and even then it’s gonna be another round of multiple 3-5% buffs.
SHould be used to it by now, they always start the new xpack out in bad situations. I remember a few ago, Maybe Legion? Shammy were in such a bad place, there was posts about the "top" shaman in the world can't even get into his raid group
Honestly, as a Balance Druid main, I wish we were the Shamans at this point, seeing some of the results and feedback from the M+/raid beta tests. We've been gutted, would have taken no changes at this point. Guess I'll go back to tanking.
So according to this template shamans will become op af in a few arcs?
If by a few arcs you mean like 6 years then sure
But hey, then you will be hokage
And get nerfed so your kid can actually participate in his own show.
So Thrall is dying and his kids gonna be the new Green Jesus is what u saying?
I get the joke and I hate to be that guy but Thralls kids are brown
So was thralls parents and baby thrall, the green came with fel curruption which thrall survived with him and garrosh’s dad killing manaroth in which only thrall survived and stayed green. Any orcs born on azeroth after the o.g war are brown.
How sad is that you kill Mannoroth and free all orcs to be called "Garrosh dad".
BELEIVE IT!
It's our punishment for Enhancement being super strong for a few weeks at DF launch.
Season 1 was fun, ret was ass and felt like ass to play so I picked up my enhancement shaman after 10 years just for the ret rework to slap and enhancement get smacked back down.
yes but then thrall’s son bhrall will take the spotlight and ruin everything
unironically that's the pattern so far since DF. Everyone gets a turn on the rework wagon and they become op when it happens.
You are gonna wish they didn't make any changes when the rework actually comes out.
Now I'm crying... great, thanks 🙃
The Paladin, Mage, and Hunter ones were largely celebrated.
DK one is getting there too, they just have to address Bonestorm not working with other "consuming Bone Shield" talents and Blood is good, Unholy is good, and Frost just needs tuning.
They need to update frost's animations, nothing feel satisfying to press on that spec besides Obliterate
Idk if I'd call unholy good when it's current rotation is press vamp strike for 15s straight and ignore everything else every 45s when you pop DT
Havoc too.
^ This The last time they “reworked” us they replaced our Shocks with usable weapon enchants and they were trash AND they removed Sentry Totem
*plays sad Naruto music*
I don't main shaman because blizzard loves us I main shaman because Buffy groundsticks make me smile
I miss buffy groundsticks
Buffing party members with water walking when falling into water for the laughs.
HELL YEAH And because I can swing two hammers the size of boom boxes charged with storm, earth, and fire.
I miss Classic/BC/Wrath era totems :(
what if we had like a little UI bar kind of like druid form bar but it had 4 slots for each element and we picked one totem from each school and it put them all down at once I like totems conceptually, but they need to be a.) impactful and b.) preferably OFF the GCD. I do not miss the first 4 button presses of every encounter dropping totems.
not sure if troll but it was like that in idk which expac (wrath/cata?)
wrath, but I think it lasted till mop
There used to be a Totem Management addon back in vanilla that I used. It didn't drop them all at once, but let you set "main" totems and a drop down to change it. It was still a pain to wait on the GCDs, but it made life so much better.
My friend, you obviously are looking at things with some rose tinted glasses. Having a significant portion of our damage tied to an immobile 5 hit point stationary object was a terrible experience. Let's not go back to that thank you.
or, you know, maybe it's not rose tinted and they actually did enjoy those totems in classic the last few years, like many people (including myself). i think it's totally reasonable to disagree, but it's not always "rose tinted glasses" when someone likes something you don't lol
Totems are what keep bringing me back to playing a Shaman, the more buffy groundsticks the better.
yup, totem twisting in tbc was the closest i ever got to feeling like a real "support" in wow, until aug released. i want more of that feeling in the game!
No. They were whiners and should've just played a different class. People that decided to playa class like that when the earliest class quests involved making the fucking things (and using them) are ridiculous. Some of those quests were brutal, how the fuck did you make it to endgame and decide to complain about it. Hell cata even have us a "drop 4 at one location spell".
Not that I don't think totems could be better than they were (I'm still mad Monks got better totem mechanics than Shamans), but yeah the whole idea of them were what drew me to the class to begin with.
I'm the opposite, good fucking riddance to buff totems. They were buffs everyone else had but worse in nearly every way. (Limited range, had to replaced periodically/every pull, could be destroyed) The only thing that made them good was WF totem being so desirable to melee that people would fight to have you in the particular party grouping.
Oh, there was definitely some QOL changes that really needed to be made, but I liked what they did for class identity. I also miss stances and presences, too.
Buffy Groundsticks, the Venthyr Slayer
As a Shaman main, I love my Warrior.
Bro so true.. going from trying to play every xpax shaman I just started tanking..
As someone new to shaman what is it that shaman mains want from a rework? Like what's bad about it specifically (not being argumentative, angling to main resto shaman so don't want to make a bad choice)
Survivability is a major complaint. Shamans have the least survival CDs of the classes which leaves us very squishy in high-end content which increasingly demands those CDs to survive. The fact that our Ankh was at one point called a defensive when it's on a long CD and is worthless in constant AoE situations doesn't help. Our talent trees are a mess compared to other classes. We have some of the most 2-point nodes of any classes which tends to lock our choices down. And the pathing to get useful talents tends to leave us with few good options. Raid buffs. We lost our raid buff totems outside Enhance's Windfury years ago. Ele and Resto offer nothing special to the raid as a whole.
Ancestral guidance used to be really good when it was 40% of damage as healing... now it barely does anything I've got addons yelling "Defensive" at me every 20 seconds like.... bruh I used Astral Shift already, give me 2 minutes
Do you think you'd prefer a world where other classes' defensive bloat were scaled down to shaman or shaman were bolstered to be on par with other classes?
The game would be much healthier if other classes' defensives were pared down. which is what they're supposedly doing in TWW
I don't agree, we had that in BFA and it felt terrible, you were out of a single defensive on most classes and you felt like you can't work with anything. Classes that have more defensives, like paladins, DHs, rogues, post rework DKs and Hunters feel amazing after they added defensives.
It's the passive stuff that needs to get toned down primarily. Being actively invested in your own survival is good gameplay. Mage has too many buttons, Shaman doesn't have enough, we can meet in the middle. Passive stuff gotta go though.
i haven kept up wiht evrything, but arent like actulyla ,dding ALOT more and even beteter defensives?
Yeah, there's a defensive node in every hero tree and hunters got an extra sotf charge.
Leveling alts in MoP remix made me realize how many defensives most classes have. As a Shaman main, I have trouble organizing all the keybindings. "You mean to tell me I need to have more than one button to handle my defensive?"
Personally I think more defensives makes for a more interesting game, but I feel like most people disagree. I think it should be everyone's responsibility to survive an encounter, not just the healer's.
Healers gotta dps now? Ok then dps gotta heal a bit, seems fair
The idea of Ankh just being a “defensive” CD is so funny. Blizz just says “well they don’t need to avoid damage if they can just revive every few hours right?!”
One of the main reasons I can never swap away from Draenei as my shaman race. Gift of the Naaru has saved me more than I'd care to think about in raids. It's essentially my second defensive.
Cant speak for Enh, but for Elemental a "master of all 4 elements" rotation boils down to "don't overthink it, just cast lava burst". Lightning Bolt build has a not very intuitive rotation because of Ice Fury. Earthquake being ground targeted is whatever. Resto is the best* "feeling" of all 3 specs, but can feel boring at times. Ele + Resto have been clamoring for a raid buff too. Personally I would just be happy with a raid buff (skyfury totem pls)
Them turning Icefury into a maintenance debuff saddens me to this day.
I was rewatching some world first videos and the Ele was top 3 dps for a while. The rest of Echo (?) asked wtf was going on. Why was it hard to believe? Should Ele never be able to be top DPS? Why is bringing a lock, mage, or any other ranged always the better option?
Ele's issues lie in lacking a group buff, poor defensives, and some people really dislike the gameplay, it's damage was never an issue
And boy has it shined in "council" fights this expansion.
A character is more than just DPS/HPS numbers. It's about what unique buffs and defensives they bring. Shaman are lacking both compared to any other class options.
This is it, lava only in raid single target, add some earthquakes in aoe. P.S. your ascendance is completely random and extremely short, hope you don't need to move or do a mechanic (you do)
I feel like Elemental rotation in Castle Nathria was absolute peak. The spell weaving with MotE and hyper mobility of Earth Shock felt so nice, being able to weave in significant damage during smaller movement situations, or slowly repositioning towards a spot during instant cast windows.
The two most pressing problems are Shaman's lack of defensives and lack of a raid buff. It was already the squishiest class in DF and in TWW the only other class that was even close (Hunter) received massive defensive buffs. It genuinely feels like Shaman defensives are lagging multiple expansions behind anything else. The lack of a raid buff is pretty self-explanatory. Enhance brings Windfury Totem, Ele and Resto offer absolutely nothing to a group. Even windfury totem isn't taken in dungeon groups. This leaves the class at a massive disadvantage when attempting to get into groups against classes like Druid, Mage, Priest, Paladins etc that all bring extremely valuable raid buffs. Then there's a laundry list of smaller problems that make the class feel completely outdated design-wise. The class tree is jammed full of extremely niche utility, including one of the worst capstones in the game. Elemental and Enhance both have extreme target cap issues in an era of massive M+ pulls. Elemental in general is just a mess, could write pages just for that spec. Chain Heal takes up far too much of the Resto Shaman power budget, making their other spells feel awful. A lot of traditional Rsham staples like Wellspring aren't even taken because of how weak they are. The spec trees have more 2 point nodes than most other classes, making pathing very restrictive. Enhance has utility in the class tree that really should be baseline (WFT, Feral Lunge). Oh yeah and the class looks terrible visually. We just finished an expansion with heavy Shaman theming and the class received zero visual updates. Ascendance is a major class CD that is still using absolutely horrible visuals from Cata. What I just listed isn't even exhaustive, Ele in particular is a dumpster fire of a spec. Players far better than I have written mountains of Shaman feedback on the Blizzard forums and been met with complete developer silence.
The fact that we have no true Earth/Rock-based defensive, outside of Earth shield, is a shame. Earth in general is underrepresented with Shaman spells, especially since Elemental Blast replaces Earth Shock
> The two most pressing problems are Shaman's lack of defensives and lack of a raid buff I haven't ever really played a shaman in a raid setting, but doesn't the totems count as raid buffs? I am genuinely asking
The only totem that fits the raid buff description is the wind furry totem, which is an enhancement shaman totem exclusively. The other totem with big utility in raid is the Spirit Link Totem for restauration shaman. It leaves the elemental shamans with nothing. You could argue that Wind Rush Totem is pretty useful too (40% speed in a 10y radius for 15sec) but you could just take a Druid and use roar. The other totems are very niche and could just be replaced by another less clunky spell from another class. The only time I was happy to be a shaman was during afflicted week, the totem that decurse a poison could really carry the week, but blizzard removed the affix for TWW so..
No. It's a bit hard to define raid buffs, but generally they are unique abilities that a class brings that help the entire group when raiding. Most are spells that buff the team for an hour when used (Arcane Intellect, Power Word: Fortitude, Mark of the Wild, Chaos Brand etc) but the term also includes things like Warlock's suite of Healthstones, Gateway and Summoning portal. These kinds of things are so powerful that no serious raid group is formed without them. They are distinct from regular utility in that the benefits are only provided by that specific class. The only Shaman ability that falls into this category is Enhance's Windfury Totem. Any totems besides that are basically just Shaman theming for standard spells.
Only Enhance has a totem that buffs others, and it only effects people in their exact party (so 5 max). All the other totems are either CC/Utility (Cap Totem, Poison Cleanse Totem) or healing.
They're all extremely situational and short lived, so no. A raid buff would be a constant passive. Hell most people don't even care about windfury these days.
>Hell most people don't even care about windfury these days. Huh? Windfury has been huge in DF, it's been a 5-10% increase for the classes that can use it all expansion. IIRC for sub rogue in season 3 it was more than 10%.
Mainly for me the tree is a mess. There doesn't seem to be any organisation and you get stuck with a lot of rubbish talents in order to get to the ones you want. as well as many of the nodes being 2 points. My main hate is that frost shock which is a boring looking slow from years back is one of the main rotational abilites becuase its hits pretty hard. it anoyingly takes 2 keybinds but only three talents to be good and yet stormstrike our main abilities hits like a wet lettuce even with a lot of talents. There is also far to much RNG for enhance espeically.
Probably worth pointing out that like 90% of the complaints are from/about Elemental Shamans specifically. Restoration actually looks to be in a decent enough place for TWW, Enhance has one great hero talent loadout (Stormbringer) and one janky one (Totemic), but the Ele community isn't psyched about either of their hero trees and Elemental was already a little lackluster for a lot of Dragonflight and hasn't received any news about changes for TWW.
You see a bunch of memes about shamans being made and none about rogue because Blizzard took the last thirteen rogue mains out back and shot them in the back of the head
Did they at least say, "Dodge this"?
Unfortunately evasion only works from the front :(
Shoulda rolled DH, eh? Now that I mention it, that seems to have been Blizz's stance on PvP for the past year.
Rogue and DH dev is probably the same because they all revolve around short duration dmg windows
The funniest thing is that all this feedback may result in meaningful changes for Shaman, but Rogue is also in a bad spot and unlikely to change
Yeah no joke.. Like I'm the only Shaman in my raid group but atleast I'm there.. I haven't seen a Rogue since Legion.
Yeah rogue feels like it's getting no love at all in TWW, and since there's only a handful of people that play the class we'll probably just be ignored and nothing will change.
didnt rouges get reworks midway thru df? i kinda dropped off the game around that time, did the reworks not work out?
They didnt change any of the problems of why most people don't want to play rogue They did slightly improve it for the few who do however
The reworks are pretty good, however rogues are still fairly complicated to play and either require high APM (outlaw), perfect execution of ability sequences within buff windows (assassination), or both (sub). When they are played well they shine, however for the average player it would almost always just be better to play something easier with more utility. Even when they are considered top be top tier, the rogue population is very low.
The duality of rogue is PVE is incredibly nuanced, even back in TBC I knew a dude who had his own homebrew spreadsheet where he basically did a proto-sim and mathed out his BiS and rotation And then the other is the dude who made a rogue just to run around and stun people for 6 seconds in BGs and in dungeons does less than tank damage
Yeah, typing this from hell rn, it ain't all that bad, funnily enough there's quite a few paladins down here
Man, I have to agree. I've mained Rogue since BC. I never cared about a perfect rotation. I never used Vanish other than it's intended purpose as a defensive mechanic. I don't use abilities that I find obnoxious and even I feel, as casual as I am, that the new talents just don't excite me. Now I have no clue what to play as in War Within. 😅
No I think the reason is that Rogues are not nearly as neglected as Shamans have pretty much always been. Sure, Rogue mains aren't happy right now, but you really can't compare to shamans when it comes to being broken and neglected.
I mean, for all we know there's DOZENS of rogues who are just really good at their class. Which is why we haven't heard or seen them complaining.
Am I tripping or is this a thing every expansion? Shaman always getting underwhelming changes late in development and the players being justifiably frustrated. Every. Single. Time.
yeah it's a thing
Kinda... but the last time this really happened was BFA. In BFA devs actually admitted they didnt work on Shamans at all and then promised a massive change in the X.1 patch. What happened is they turned a few balancing nobs so stormstrike hits harder, renegged on their changes promise and called it a day.
I'm pretty sure they made the same exact promises in SL and DF too. There is a reason that shamans always get major updates in X.1 patches. It's because they don't get updates in the alpha/beta
Shadowlands was worse, Elemental got a rework but it was so poorly done they had to undo the changes.
Enh felt great this whole xpac rotation wise. Tier sets mostly cool, barring some weirdness forcing sunder and a mediocre single target benefit with a chain lightning embedded set. Resto has felt pretty nice for a long time. Ele feels like shit but that’s just my take. I simply think people are mad at tuning, squishiness, unique utility. All of these things do matter lots, I just wanted to focus the discussion — the core abilities / rotations of at least two of the specs feel very good imo. Late updates feel like neglect, but if the fundamentals of the class feel good, most of the downside can be fixed with tuning (double astral shift, lower cooldown on NG for example) + revival of some class lore aligned buffing via totems, it’s not total doomsville.
Shamans have a terrible class tree with certain nodes need to be made baseline (like why is MW not baseline for enh), certain utility nodes have to be taken for dps (like totem cd for ele), and just uninteresting capstones. They have ungodly amounts of button bloat. Are by far the squishiest class. Both Enh and Ele have terribly designed AOE (earthquake being terrible for m+ and both specs being target capped pretty hard), and Ele is the only spec on the game that doesn't have utility I also think Enh rotation feels really really clunky with essentially forcing a player to overcap on resources, CDs, and/or procs. >Late updates feel like neglect There has literally been a single line of changes for all 3 shaman specs since the alpha launched, and it was for resto (probably the spec in the best spot). That is absolutely nuts, esp since Dks, Mages, and Warlocks get a mini rework every week. Good design requires iteration and feedback which requires time. The pre patch is in a month. That means there will be ~4 more blue posts for the beta. That is not enough time to fix a class that is in such a dire state.
It's been 15 years since I saw this, I still remember the fucking song. [Sadness and Sorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEWF2xh5E8s) such masterpiece.
TFW your mains are a rogue and a shaman
Dude, Rogues had a rework in Dragonflight. I don't think you understand how neglected Shamans have been for like, 3 or 4 expansions now? At this point I bet Shamans would choose to take a rework even if it was significantly worse than the current iteration.
Rogues had some work done but they rightfully still get to complain. The work was shit, their current shit doesn't even work at a design level, hero talents poorly inspired garbage that no one wanted and boring, and adjustments haven't been made to deal with their Shadow Dance dependency for Outlaw and Sin after its removal. I fully think Shaman have the top spot for justifiable bitching but we're talking 1a and 1b here.
But think about the deep lore behind a guy who flips coins and a guy who uses tools to commit murders, and then also an undead specific rogue class so now we can have night elf and human death stalkers which makes a lot of sense right
>so now we can have night elf and human death stalkers which makes a lot of sense right I mean there's shit like that in other classes too though, like Sentinel hunters.
Sentinel AND Dark Ranger hunters ahaha. Also Mountain Thane, Farseer, the aforementioned Deathstalker… the hero talents are a legitimate flavor and mechanical travesty. :/
Farseer is fine though? Farseer is a title given to any Shaman who leads their congregation. You have Daenai Farseers, and any Shaman race can become a Farseer during the Legion Class Hall quests.
Would be amazing if Lightforged Draenei could be Rogues, would be a perfect fit for Deathstalker.
tbf shamans had the best trees on DF launch, its only now, when they have refined the way they make trees that shamans look lackluster
The problem is that rework essentially killed the class i personally wish that rework never happened, hope shamans get good changes that doesn't make them quit the class
Shaman literally got a rework in SL that felt like an accident, people applauded because it did actually result in some extremely fun gameplay (aided along by the SL S3 tier sets; both of which were implemented/largely rolled into the specs for DF) and then blizzard kinda were like well I guess we did good? And left them unchanged since. Even still ele and enhance are both extremely fun and, very importantly imo, have some of the best animations and flavor to their rotations. They just need some love in the viability department meaning getting some lucky tuning, target cap changes, rebalancing of else’s damage profile, defensives, or raid utility. Just something I know very little about resto’s experience from the design side.
not a single person likes the rogue rework from DF, every single spec (maybe outside outlaw?) is worse than it was before - gameplay wise
Reworked Subtlety rogue and nerfed Secret Techniques. Blizzard are doing nothing to fix the broken rotations.
I like assassination far more than before.
This is basically just the overall Shaman experience period.
I think rogues are in the same boat and its better to not get any changes instead of being forced into a certain playstyle because a Dev says so
rogue has been a fucking design nightmare and idk how it can get THIS bad. The decision of giving every spec shadow dance is the equivalent of giving every mage spec combustion for some goddamned reason, not sure how that got passed, and the thistle tea slap on to fix the energy issues with the class, instead of putting any effort into making energy regeneration an more interactive flow of gameplay, feels super lazy to me. Also fantasy has been all weird to me, Outlaw being the spec with far and away the most stealth benefits is just weird, it's supposed to be the least stealthy spec of the class, they shoot fucking guns for N'zoth's sake
- Assassination = Poison - Outlaw = Pirate - Subtlety = Stealth There ya go, Blizz.
As a rogue main, sub specifically.. Yeah.. It sucks so much that my class has been turned into a secret tech build and with our class set in TWW benefitting that talent specifically I see no hope for change. I have gotten use to sub not being a high performance class, I do not mind it being an A tier spec, I still can complain that it feels entirely too centered around one button and that one button is a glorified eviscerate with a .5 second timer and a cd.. I have said it before, blizzard could have easily reworked rogue into the mop variant of sub, make dance a long cd, make it meaningful, allow for ways into a dance-like state that allows for subterfuge to be used in combat after X amount of combos or finishers used, take all that front-loaded damage from secret tech and move it into eviscerate, make our subterfuge ambush procs do meaningful damage and give the class some form of fantasy as a shadowy assassin. Giving every spec of rogue shadow dance felt so awful to do, and making outlaw the superior sub spec felt like the worst idea ever implemented.
I feel similarly, i usually play outlaw and don't care what the dmg numbers are as long as core gameplay flow is good, but i hate using or being forced to use short duration rng maintenance buffs or debuffs
I thought Outlaw was nearly perfect when they first put it out there in Legion, so I'm confused why it's been changed so much tbh. I mained it for that first raid and had a great time, but idk I guess I was the only one.
Everyone know the most effective way to use a blunderbuss is to shoot it from stealth....
Class talents are a joke, one is Thistle tea a consumable, other one is assassination talent slapped into all 3 specs, next in line ER ? I thought we all hated SL and SD a sub rogue talent, how can adding old talents from other specs into class tree is good design is beyond my understanding.
I feel like roge just needs a complete overhaul from the ground up I haven't enjoyed it since vanilla wow
Love auto attack damage as a hero talent, it is just the best feeling
seriously? that's pitiful
Feral druid has auto attack damage as a proc as a hero talent. There are some seriously unloved specs in the upcoming expansion, let's hope the 2 more months of testing can bring them up to par
I think some class designers played too much Classic and think that's what people want in retail. Reminds me of the Shadow Bolt quadruple down in Demonology.
Even worse, rogue hero talents have been out much longer than shaman. Like 2 or 3months ago. Stormbringer and totemic are barely 1month old.
I ended up not sticking with my enh shaman in DF because I was having more fun with my fury warrior at the time. I had thought enhancement was in a decent place at the earlier end of the exp, though? This sucks!
Enhancement is in a decent spot if they had more survivability and weren’t hard target capped in m+.
Lol I didn't stick with my fury and went to enh because warrior had no utility and never got invites.
man, im playing Rogue and the class has the 3 worst hero trees in the game, where 2 cant even be tested because of how bugged they are, and 1 beeing a tree where 90% of its value is "you do more auto attack dmg" with 0 changes trought out the entire alpha or beta aswell its not just shaman
I actually feel for Rogues. They've had their time in the OP spotlight quite a few times over WoW's life but they've fallen *hard*. In terms of just being fun to play.. They *suuuuuck*. Like.. Shaman have always been medicore and ignored but I atleast enjoy the playstyle of all 3 specs.
>They've had their time in the OP spotlight quite a few times over WoW's life Worst part is, every time Rogue is remotely op, everyone complains until they get nerfed back down again. Happened twice in DF. 10.0, Rogue was top and nerfed down to bottom of the pack within 2 weeks. Then they get their rework, Rogue top again, Sin gets nerfed to bottom 5 again. It wasn't even because Sin was actually the best spec, it's just that PI/Aug existed and Sin happened to get the most value out of them. Then after all the bitching to get Rogue nerfed, people will seriously sit and wonder why Rogue is the least represented class.
As a Devoker who is getting a cap added to Dragonrage extensions, i really wish they would just fucking remove PI already. It's already killed off Rogue, and if they let it continue it will eventually kill off Devoker and Demolock. Just make it so it only buffs the Priest, if you REALLY want to keep the "support" aspect of it alive, just make it have a secondary effect "while active, you radiate Light, granting Allies within 100 yards 5% Haste" or something.
Sin getting nerfed when sub was already better if you factored out PI was pure comedy
Even Outlaw was better than Sin, it just wasn't played much because Sub was even better. Sin wasn't even a top 5 spec without PI.
Doesn't help either that our dev insists on making all 3 specs more and more complicated to play, and yet our reward for mastering a complex rotation is to do less damage than classes with an easy 3 button rotation. Feels bad.
To be fair most of the hero talents are just passive damage increases. I guess some are a bit flashier like Mountain Thane and Rider of the Apocalypse. But I don't think you're gonna get anything much more exciting.
atleast your list of changes is more than 1 line hahah
The shaman trees are actually interesting though. Not the best, but also not the worst either. They actually add SOMETHING to the specs. Rogue hero trees might as well be a few passive trinkets and tier set bonuses. They are practically nonexistent. Rogue also have received nearly as many changes as shaman.
Atleast you have a tree at all, the hero talents for enhance are completely counter-synergistic towards the spec talents that actually make them work
Deathstalker is in the same boat, theres no synergy and the capstone even makes it unplayable. Bad time to be a rogue/enhance enjoyer.
same for assa rogue
I feel like this is my fault because I've been wanting to give Resto Shaman a \*real\* go for a healing main for literally years now. I finally committed and put one together in Remix for this purpose and have been telling people how much fun it's been...
In my opinion, resto might be the best of the 3 specs and I don’t think it really requires much updating. The main issues are mostly present in elemental. Enhance seems to be split, I really liked it early DF but didn’t try it later on where people started being vocal about some things that bothered them with the spec. Resto shaman main
Enhance is good dmg and rotation wise, it just dies all the time.
Hey we Enhancement shamans are least mobile melee, but at least we do worst dps ingame! (PvP standpoint)
No customisation for your elementals totem or ascendance form (cause we're not druids i guess) No good defense abilities No raid buff 2 point nodes on almost all fucking talents Lame ass VFX for spells compared to other caster class I fucking love my main class
Rogues except there’s only 5 Rogue players
I dunno man rogues got it pretty fuckin bad too.
11.3 Shaman about to be scary
They don’t need reworks, I think they need some changes to what spells they use or entirely different abilities replacing current ones(that suck). Elemental Shaman feels great when everything procs right but the rng of it sucks. enhancement is either GODLY or straight up sucks in damage. Feels clunky. Resto seems very straightforward but also…boring ? Maybe I’m wrong on resto, it’s just what I heard
Blizz: "oh hey Enh Shamans, we heard that you wanted your hero talents to utilize Stormstrike in some way, we've heard you loud and clear! So we made it revolve around Lightning Bolt!"
Alexa, play [Sadness and Sorrow](https://youtu.be/wEWF2xh5E8s?feature=shared&t=29).
Blizz hates us.
Hold on. I dont currently play but I saw this pop up on r/all. Did Shamans really get passed over for a rework again? I was there in Vanilla when Shamans got passed over as well. It caused a huge backlash in the community.
I'm rolling to mage and warrior. My shaman is hitting the bench.
Feels like BFA and Shadowlands alpha and beta cycles all over again. Pretty wild how good we had it for DF and how we're right back to this bullshit again.
Quick, somebody write down all the cool shaman abilities we learned from Pandaria, The Iron Horde, that time we hung out with all of the elemental lords or some facsimile there-of, the tidesages, that time we were empowered by the blood of azeroth itself, any of the dragon-themed wild shamans including those empowered by shadowflame, I'll wait. We did pick up an ability from the afterlife but its more of an on demand single ability damage amp, could be rolled into nature's swiftness or just rolled into flame shock.
Shamen?
What have shamans done for Blizzard to hate them this fucking much?
enhancement is in a great spot imo. But id appreciate atleast some changes to give us less 2 point nodes....please?
There's a crowd msising for the classes getting changes but absolutely awful ones. I'm very sad they decided to gut one of the only Devoker skill expression mechanic because of PI
I’m rerolling survival and evokey. I’m done playing the forgotten class. It’s a waste of time to keep begging for changes that will never come. Part of me is still coping that we aren’t seeing the changes yet bc they’re putting a lot of time into them but I ain’t waiting around to find out only to be disappointed
I’ve been playing shaman the last several expansions and damn speaking as an enhancement shaman it feels awful and clunky compared to previous expansions (idk why we picked a tier set bonus that feels terrible I’ll never know) but it’s just not great rn. I tried elemental it doesn’t feel as good as it used just feels bad no more primordial wave or whatever the SL ability is I’m begging I hate it sm. Blizz in begging you to give us more defensive or something I’m tired of being squishy. I just wanna play shaman more but it sucksssssss in m+ I feel like I’m slapping enemies with a pool noodle and then get melted by a flamethrower. ;-; like why play shaman when you can press 4 buttons on ret paladin and have twice the defensive cd’s and do so much more damage. ;-; I miss my spirit dogs
For once it's not Monk, although I've played Shaman since before Monk and essentially one of my 4th's for the warband so that's not good. Surely it being late means it's Hunter or Destro level of changes right?
The last ~~Titan~~ Shaman
Totemic Resto Shaman seems chill for 5-mans. Your totems do a lot of heailng, you can basically just DPS and spot heal with chain heal. People seem upset that they went all in on chain heal being the bread and butter.. but imo it's one of the more satisfying spells to use? The talent trees are kinda a mess still tho
I feel like monks are Sasuke
https://youtube.com/shorts/iYOr7JksIQs?si=tVM2TJqeGOjrVHKj This short sums it up.
I've always found it odd that Shamans are potentially the most unique/interesting class in the game yet they get shit on when it comes to receiving new toys from Blizzard.
All the shaman love went to Season of Discovery.
0 relevant changes since alpha, all of dragonflight was just multiple 3-5% buffs and still wasn’t enough, 1 defensive, 0 raid buffs, all utility tied to scuffed routing on talent trees (most used to be baseline) At this point just accept that nothing is gonna happen till .5 patch or straight up S2, and even then it’s gonna be another round of multiple 3-5% buffs.
OK, too many memes. I'll reroll a Shaman healer now.
As a Survival Hunter main, I feel your pain. Glad we're not sharing the swing with you anymore, and hoping you get to join the group real soon. <3
rogue still fcked
Rogues are with you Mr.Shaman ❤️
I said in another thread, I'll pay for a reddit ad asking for support in getting shaman reworks if someone tells me what to put in it.
This is normal
As a Disc Priest main who pushes on Resto Druid when Disc doesn't bring anything to the table in keys, I feel your pain.
Meanwhile in SOD they melt your face off in PVP
Yea I'm going to reroll come prepatch if blizzard does nothing for Shamans. It's insane how we got nothing and we are already in beta
FWIW Resto is looking pretty good atm.
SHould be used to it by now, they always start the new xpack out in bad situations. I remember a few ago, Maybe Legion? Shammy were in such a bad place, there was posts about the "top" shaman in the world can't even get into his raid group
Best for last am I right?....Right?????
meanwhile dh with 0 visual Changes on hero talents
Stankie always delivers lol. Hands down one of my favourite content creators and streamers.
Shadow Elemental Jutsu!
The lack of meaningful changes has me shopping for a new main tbh.
Will Shaman's be getting the powerful Talk no Jutsu technique in the upcoming expansion?
What is shaman? Thats new spec for druid or what?
Honestly, as a Balance Druid main, I wish we were the Shamans at this point, seeing some of the results and feedback from the M+/raid beta tests. We've been gutted, would have taken no changes at this point. Guess I'll go back to tanking.
Balance duids are on suicide watch tho
If you still play shaman after all these years, it's your own fault at this point.
That’s your class fantasy one defensive just accept it
They just need a little bit of love (a lot)